Is Skillet Making SATANIC Music This Christmas? John Cooper May Surprise You

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Isabel Brown Show

Episode: Is Skillet Making SATANIC Music This Christmas? John Cooper May Surprise You
Date: December 15, 2025
Host: Isabel Brown (The Daily Wire)
Guest: John Cooper, frontman of Skillet

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Overview

This episode takes on the controversy swirling around Skillet’s hard rock cover of the traditional Christmas carol “O Come, O Come Emmanuel.” Isabel Brown addresses the online uproar from some Christian circles who accuse the band of “satanic” tendencies due to their heavy musical style. The episode features live reactions to the music video, a candid interview with John Cooper, and a broader conversation on faith, culture, and what it means to be set apart as a Christian in today's world.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Stage: Christmas Controversies (01:01–03:59)

• Isabel celebrates a parenting milestone before diving into current Christian cultural debates: Santa's appropriateness, Christmas movie hot takes (notably her distaste for The Polar Express), and the online backlash against Skillet’s Christmas song.
• She teases the main topic: Is Skillet’s version of “O Come, O Come Emmanuel” truly “satanic,” as some online voices claim?

2. Live Reaction to Skillet's Music Video (03:59–08:11)

• Isabel live-reacts to Skillet’s music video, praising it as “a beautiful cover” and expressing confusion over the uproar.
• Notable Quote:
  • “I have no idea why everybody is so angry. This is, like, a beautiful cover of one of the greatest Christmas songs ever. Y'all need to calm down, okay?” (06:11)
• She acknowledges the heavy rock turn in the song, but asserts:
  • “That was it. That was ‘satanic,’ people. That was beautiful. I have no issues with this whatsoever. You guys need to calm down, okay?” (08:11)

3. Critique of the Backlash (08:11–11:18)

• Isabel draws a line between genuinely concerning cultural phenomena and the Skillet “controversy,” calling out misplaced outrage.
• She highlights the importance of distinguishing between real spiritual issues and stylistic differences in worship.
• Quote:
  • “There are very important things to worry about in the grand scheme of where the trajectory of American Christianity is going in the year of our Lord 2025. I'm pretty sure a… Christian rock band… Singing ‘God is with us. Rejoice. The savior of the world is coming’ is not anything we should be remotely concerned about.” (11:02)

4. Introducing John Cooper – Skillet’s Side of the Story (15:31–16:53)

• Isabel welcomes John Cooper, highlighting Skillet’s decades-long career and recent chart success with their Christmas song.
• John jokes about the backlash:
  • “Yeah, people are dumb. That's all we need… The end. People are stupid. And we're done.” (16:40)

5. Behind the Scenes: Skillet and the Making of the Song (16:53–19:13)

• John describes the creative process: The cover was his wife Corey’s idea, developed privately before being released to great fan enthusiasm.
• Key details: 30 years as a band, nearly 29 years married, and their children raised on the road.
• About releasing the song:
  • “We didn't tell the label. We didn't tell management. We just did the song and just was like, hey, we want to release it. And it came out, and the fans love it, and there's the end of the story.” (18:51)

6. Addressing the Accusations of “Satanic” Music (20:07–23:53)

• John discusses his strict fundamentalist upbringing:
  • “I wasn't allowed to listen to rock music, which I know is really funny. And when I discovered Christian rock music, my parents were really mad… saying… they're trying to lead people to Satan by preaching Jesus or something like that.” (21:24)
• On the backlash:
  • “It kind of became a whole thing. And the good news is this. It drove streams, it drove people going to YouTube to see the video… then people are like, wow. I went to see what was demonic about this, and I actually love this song. So good news…” (22:26)

7. The Power of Music to Change Lives (24:47–28:39)

• John recounts his personal faith journey:
  • “Christian music was there for me in an incredible way. God used Christian music to really keep me grounded in the faith. Honestly, I don't think that's an exaggeration.” (26:01)
• He stresses that everyone worships something—music is a powerful vessel for true worship.
• Quote:
  • “Every single human being on the planet worships. Period. We're all worshiping… there's something very powerful about singing music that is inspired by the Holy Spirit, that is full of the Word of God, et cetera, and it changes people's lives.” (28:01)

8. Cultural Changes in Church & Society (31:48–36:51)

• John notes the shift in church culture post-2010s, where politics and “woke” movements affected the church’s message and approach.
• The need for the church to maintain its prophetic voice rather than becoming lukewarm.
• Quote:
  • “If the church doesn't wake up, I think it'll be gone. That's where I think we're at.” (36:46)

9. Role of Christians in a Darkening Culture (37:57–41:47)

• John’s advice:
  • Have families and instill a biblical worldview; don’t overly shelter children but teach them about both right and wrong doctrines.
  • Need for balance—truth and grace—and the importance of being vocal in the cultural conversation.
• “We're going to have to get loud if you want to save the West.” (39:14)

10. Christian Parenting in a Confusing World (42:28–46:26)

• The best way to raise Christian children: model the behaviors you want them to emulate (praying, worshiping, discussing faith openly).
• Notable Story:
  • “The best thing we ever did for our kids was that we would worship with our kids… My kids saw me cry out to God to ask them to save friends that don't know Jesus, that my kids also knew. And they began to pray for them.” (44:06)
• John illustrates with a moving story of his young daughter’s empathy and prayer for a grieving band member.

11. The Strength in Being Different (49:38–54:58)

• Isabel and John discuss embracing being different from the world and handling ridicule from both secular and Christian communities.
• Quote:
  • “Giving your life to Jesus is like an empty sheet of paper… you sign the signature line and you give it to God and you say, now you fill it in. Whatever you say, you're the boss.” (50:42)
• John encourages steadfastness: critics may call you “a weirdo” or “extremist,” but when crisis hits, you’ll be the one they call for help.

12. The Story Behind the Skillet Christmas Recording & Charlie Kirk (55:18–58:28)

• John reveals that during the heavy recording session for “O Come, O Come Emmanuel,” he received a text about the assassination of Charlie Kirk.
• Quote:
  • “Nothing illustrates what we were trying to express in our song more than that moment. And it all happened then.” (57:51)

13. Closing Thoughts (58:28–end)

• Isabel reflects on Charlie Kirk’s impact and the deeper, unpredictable ways God works through tragedy and creativity.
• She urges listeners to embrace their callings as Christians, reminding them that everyone can have a ripple effect for the Gospel.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (All timestamps MM:SS)

• “I will die on this hill. The Polar Express is terrifying.” – Isabel (02:14)
• “That was satanic, people. That was beautiful.” – Isabel (08:03)
• “People are dumb. That's all we need… The end.” – John Cooper (16:40)
• “God used Christian music to really keep me grounded in the faith.” – John Cooper (26:01)
• “There's really two choices. You can choose a way that leads to life. You can choose a way that leads to death.” – John Cooper (49:49)
• "When all hell breaks loose in their lives… you're the first person they're going to call.” – John Cooper (53:07)
• "Nothing illustrates what we were trying to express in our song more than that moment [learning about Charlie Kirk's shooting]." – John Cooper (57:51)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Setting the Stage & Christmas Hot Takes: 01:01–03:59
• Live Reaction to Skillet's Cover: 03:59–08:11
• Analyzing Criticism & Hysteria: 08:11–11:18
• Interview with John Cooper, Introduction: 15:31–16:53
• Making of the Song & Skillet’s Background: 16:53–19:13
• Addressing the “Satanic” Accusations: 20:07–23:53
• Music & Faith: 24:47–28:39
• Church & Cultural Shifts: 31:48–36:51
• Christian Response to the Darkness: 37:57–41:47
• Parenting & Modeling Faith: 42:28–46:26
• The Cost and Value of Being Different: 49:38–54:58
• Story of Recording During Charlie Kirk’s Assassination: 55:18–58:28
• Final Reflections & Farewell: 58:28–end

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Tone & Language

• Frank, personable, energetic, and at times humorous.
• Isabel brings a mix of light anecdote and emotional sincerity and John Cooper’s candor, empathy, and encouragement shine through.
• Discussion is friendly and direct—no sugarcoating, but also anchored in hope and conviction.

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Summary Takeaways

• Skillet’s “O Come, O Come Emmanuel” is not satanic: the backlash is rooted in misunderstanding of style vs. substance.
• The discussion expands beyond one song, exploring deeper themes of how Christians can engage with modern culture, parent faithfully, and stand firm in their convictions—especially in the face of criticism from outside and within the church.
• John Cooper’s story and advice offer practical encouragement for raising families and staying bold in faith, especially in tumultuous times.

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For more: Find Skillet on all music platforms and socials (@skilletmusic; John L. Cooper: @johnlcooper).

Closing encouragement:
Isabel: “As we continue to navigate the evil and the sin and the darkness… I pray that we all have the courage to be the Light and to continue proclaiming the good word of the Gospel and the love of Jesus Christ to the world as we await the coming of Emmanuel this year.” (60:50)

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

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[A]

And welcome back to the Isabelle Brown Show. I am like exuberantly exploding with energy because my kids slept in her crib from 10 o' clock to 7 o' clock with only one wake up. So I am living large people. Christmas miracles are on the horizon and everybody said Hallelujah. I am all about it. I hope you guys had an amazing weekend and as we are getting closer to the Christmas season, thank you. There's a whole lot of interesting hot takes related to Christmas this year. I am finding out in 2025, the year of our Lord Jesus Christ. Is Santa appropriate for Christian families or not? There's a growing anti Santa movement in American Christianity. We'll have an episode for you on that next week. Different opinions about different Christmas Movies I shared my hot take a few days ago on X that really upset a whole lot of you. That and I will die on this hill. The Polar Express is probably the crazies weirdest, creepiest haunty vibes movie of all time. It is not a good film. It is not heartwarming. It's creepy. It's creepy af and maybe it's also just the Tom Hanks alone on a train full of children with no parents thing always gave me the heebie jeebies and I will die on this hill. The Polar Express is terrifying and we will not religiously be watching it as a family with our children growing up. But there's one new hot take and argument happening in the Christian world these days on social media louder than any other I am seeing out there. All related to some friends of ours in the band Skillet and their new coverage of a song that we have known and loved as Christians for literally hundreds upon hundreds of years. Oh, come, oh come Emanuel. They covered this song in a really interesting twist a la Skillet's way. And people have a whole lot to say about it, claiming that this is a demonic cover of this song, that it is satanic worship, because they are a heavy metal rock band. Now, people have been saying this about this band, not related just to Christmas music, but related to all of their music for a very long time. But I decided to see what all of the hype was about with you guys here on the show today and live react to this music video, which I've never actually watched myself up to this point, to see if there really is an underlying deep, dark message. So to kick off our week, one week out from the Christmas week, which I'm so excited about, we are going to live react to oh come, oh come Emmanuel by Skillet with their music video together today. Let's check it out.

[B]

Oh come, oh come. And ransom Captiv. Israel. That mourns in lonely exile here until the son of God appear.

[A]

It's a beautiful church. Let me also just say this is one of my favorite Christmas songs and ever. I love it. Every single year.

[B]

Thine own from Satan's tyranny From depths of hell Thy people save and give them victory O the grave rejoice oh, that's beautiful. Shall come to the.

[A]

I see nothing wrong with this up to this point, so I have no idea why everybody is so angry. He's with us.

[B]

He's with us now.

[A]

Okay. Come and then you will.

[B]

Oh, come thou they spring Come and cheer our spirits by an adventure Disperse the gloomy clouds of night all right, I had.

[A]

To pause this at this point. We're about halfway through the song. I have no idea what everyone is so upset about. This is, like, a beautiful cover of one of the greatest Christmas songs ever. Y' all need to calm down, okay. Everybody's so angry all the time. I'm waiting for the twist because I know it's coming because it's Skillet. They don't do, like, soft, beautiful instrumental worship music. They're a heavy metal rock band. Okay, so they're rock and roll. I'm waiting for that part of the coverage, which I'm sure is about to come around the corner here. But this is gorgeous. Why is everybody so angry? I do not understand. And this really is one of the greatest Christmas hymns of all time. I love seeing a comeback of some of the more traditional Christmas music. Literally just walking around town here in Washington, D.C. everywhere we go at hotels, if we're popping into the lobby really quick to use the bathroom or grab a cup of coffee or whatever, when we're at the mall, when we've been walking around restaurants and hearing Christmas songs like played outside, every time I'm walking out and about in town right now, I am hearing songs like oh Come, oh come Emmanuel or Silent Night or Joy to the World. And it is so reigniting this passion in me that we have to remember that Christ is the reason that we celebrate Christmas. It's really beautiful that our culture seems to be falling in love with that all over again. Just like we are in the conservative movement that's happening at large in the world too. And I'm loving, loving, loving hearing all of this. So even though there is a little bit of controversy associated with this, at the very least, I'm so excited that everyone is talking about one of the greatest Christian Christmas songs of all time. All right, we got about two minutes left in this thing. I have no idea where the twist, shocking satanic allegedly ending here is, but let's see. Here we go. Wow. This is like heavy rock and roll. I love this. I don't know what you guys are so upset about, to be honest with you. That was it. That was satanic, people. That was beautiful. I have no issues with this whatsoever. You guys need to calm down, okay? Zero issues with that whatsoever. I have literally no clue why you guys are so upset about that as, quote, unquote, stupid satanic rituals. There's a lot of things in the music industry that you could point to as demonically inspired or influenced or just straight up worship of Satan. Okay, Most recently, did you guys not see the Zach Brown Band concert at the Sphere a few days ago that I can reasonably accept may have some evil demonic influence in all of this. But what? Because people are head banging and playing electric guitars and there's a flash of red light every once in a while, you're calling that satanic? Newsflash, the color red is not coherently aligned with Satan. 24, 7, 365. I mean, I swear, some of these same people would probably say that the gush of blood coming out of Jesus Christ on the cross was like, satanic because it was red. I mean, we've got to get over ourselves. Honestly, there are very important things to worry about in the grand scheme of where the trajectory of American Christianity is going in the year of our Lord 2025. I'm pretty sure a rock band, a Christian rock band, Playing epic drums and electric guitars and headbanging worship music. Singing God is with us. Rejoice. The savior of the world is coming is not anything we should be remotely concerned about. Back to today's super fun episode in just a second. But first, when it comes to holiday gifting, I want this year to give things that people really love. Beautiful, timeless pieces that they will wear for years. Which is exactly why I am going with our friends at Quince. From Mongolian cashmere sweaters to Italian wool coats, everything is at a premium quality at a price that actually makes sense. For the record, I am obsessed with Quince. They literally have everything. Actually, the outfit I used on our family Christmas card this year, which you guys loved, it looks like a 90s Ralph Lauren catalog. My husband is wearing Quince's men's flag sweater and it is so beautiful, so timeless and absolutely perfect for all of the seasons, not just Christmas. Their cashmere sweaters are actually only $50 and they feel just as luxe as the expensive ones. Plus they have silk pieces for when I actually get to dress up these days. Not very often since we record from our basement. But all these Christmas parties. Great denim for running around with my baby and coats that are warm enough for real life. Their Italian wool coats are really something special. They are beautifully tailored, incredibly soft, and built to last for years and years. Everything is made with really nice material, but it's priced way lower than those luxury brands that cost a fortune. You can tell the quality that they have in how well everything is made, in the stitching, how things fit and the drape. It is all just really elevated and timeless. The kind of stuff I want to reach for every day, especially as I'm elevating my wardrobe as a mom now for timeless pieces that are going to last for a very, very long time, I'm throwing out all of the cheap clothes that I bought in my early 20s or the stuff that I still have in my college since or in my closet since college. And I'm really trying to dress like a young, fun, cool, but a mom. At the end of the day, you can find gifts so good that you'll want to keep them for yourself. With quints. Go to quince.com Isabelle for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's pretty great. Now available in Canada too. That is Q U I N C E.com Isabelle to get free shipping and a whole year of returns. One more time, that is quince.com Isabel but apparently you guys are literally my entire X feed. The last several days has been people complaining about how Skillet, the band, is somehow glorifying Satan because of their coverage of oh Come, oh Come, Emmanuel. Let's pull up some of these because, honestly, it still blows my mind that this is the general consensus that people are saying all of this. People are calling this a sacrilege against our heritage, a sacrilege against our Christian heritage. Critics say Skillet's rock version of O Come O Cum Emanuel sounds like something the devil would produce if he sang hymns. You guys, you guys, seriously, seriously. I don't have a lot of good feelings about this, honestly. And it seems we really need some discernment because I have known the band members of Skillet for many years. They are the most amazing people. John Cooper, who you saw singing there, is such an amazing man and a true light of God in a very dark culture and is connecting with people in really powerful ways through his music. His wife, Corey, is one of the most lovely people I've ever met in my entire life. Jen Ledger, their bandmate, also singing in that music video, is so sweet and is constantly hyping us up and supporting all of our content. So it really just hasn't sat well with me that you guys are so upset about this song. Well, before I ever even watched the music video because I wanted to live react to it with you guys here on the show on Friday, I actually had a chance to sit down with John for a little while and get his take on everything that's going on and the backlash that Skillet is receiving for Skill singing a traditional Christian Christmas song. Skillet are the best people in the world, led by none other than John Cooper, who joins us on the Isabel Brown show today. So please join me in welcoming him to the show. My amazing friend John Cooper of Skillet is joining us today on the Isabel Brown Show. John, it's so great to see you. It has been way too long since I've gotten to see you and your lovely wife and the band. But how are you doing this Christmas season? Let us in on all things that Skill Skillet is up to these days.

[B]

Yeah, it's so cool to see you. You know, I think last time I saw you, I don't think you had a baby. I think that that's all new. That's how long it's been. So it is so good to reconnect with you. And. And I was thrilled when I saw you join the Daily Wire team as well. I was like, oh, this is so exciting because, you know, as people watching don't know that we met a few years ago and I was just so thrilled to see somebody so young taking such a stand about really matter and. And world changing. So congratulations to you and thanks for having me on. And the Skillet family is all doing very, very well.

[A]

That's so fantastic to hear. And you guys have had quite the few weeks, if I do say so myself. Your new cover of oh Come oh Come Emanuel is charting number one on multiple different Billboard charts, which I'm so excited to see, but also has generated quite the Internet buzz. So can you give us like the 30,000 foot overview of this song, what it has meant to you guys as the band and then we're going to get into some of the more crazy behind the scenes parts.

[B]

Yeah, people are dumb. That's all we need. That's the end. People are stupid. And we're. And we're done. The end of interview. Everybody have a good Christmas. Go listen to my new song.

[A]

Well said. Well.

[B]

Yeah. So you know, probably about a year and a half ago. Okay. So for people that don't know, the band is called Skillet Hard Rock Band. We are a Christian band. My wife Corey is also in the band. Some people don't know that we're about next year we're celebrating 30 year anniversary of Skillet, which I cannot believe it's been that long. I don't feel nearly old enough to have been doing this for 30 years. But spoiler alert, I guess I am. And let's see, next year will also be 29 years of marriage with me and for me and Corey. So we've been playing in skillet for nearly 30 years. We've been married nearly the whole time. We raised our kids on the road. Since I saw you last. My daughter got married. She got married last year. Oh my gosh.

[A]

That's amazing.

[B]

Yeah, so it's crazy. So we're kind of in this fun stage of life where our kids are adults and now we have extra time on our hands. And it's funny because you're like, okay, now I can. Yeah. You realize how hard it was like raising kids on the road. And because they, our kids came with us, we homeschooled on the road, we did everything and they came to Europe with us. They came everywhere. Now we've got time. And so about a year and a half ago, fans started saying, when are you going to do a Christmas song? And I kept thinking, never. I don't. You've heard me sing. I don't think I can sing Christmas songs. Very well. But my wife Corey, she's our producer, she just started working on something. I saw her working, but I didn't know what it was because she produces for other people as well. So I thought she's probably working on something for some other artist. And finally she's like, hey, I got this idea I want to show you for a Skillet Christmas song. And I was just blown away. It was so beautiful and so powerful. It's her favorite Christmas song. Oh, Come O come Emmanuel. And it all happened very fast. I was like, we're doing it. We didn't even tell the label. We have a distributor, I should say. I guess we're the label now. We've gone on our own, but we do have a distributor. We didn't tell management. We didn't tell anybody. We just did the song and just was like, hey, we want to release it. And it came out, and the fans love it, and there's the end of the story.

[A]

The fans do love it, and I, for one, think it is awesome. I have listened to your guys's music for years, and I love that it's different from everything you're hearing in the Christian world. But shockingly, a lot of people don't think different is very good these days. Maybe that shouldn't be shocking to us in the culture that we live in today. And you guys have been accused of some really crazy stuff. I'm seeing tweets that are calling this song satanic, which is insane sane, because this is one of the oldest Christmas songs that we have in Christian history. They're saying that you guys are just too heavy to be appreciated as Christian musicians. Tell us a little bit about some of this unexpected backlash, perhaps, and what it's meant to have people come to your guys's side and continue fight along, to fight alongside you for what is good and true and beautiful, even if it sounds a little bit different than people might be used to.

[B]

Yeah, And I like that. I like your slogan, by the way. Good, true, and beautiful, which I love. Yeah. So I think that all it is is that there's a group of people now. This isn't new. I mean, the funny thing is about. I grew up in the 80s, and so, hey, do you remember that documentary that came out called Shiny Happy People? It was about, like, Bill Gothard and that sort of thing. So I didn't grow up full Bill Gothard, but I did grow up in a similar type environment. And I went to Bill Gothard seminars as a kid. Very fundamentalist. Very, like, be separate from the world, but to an extreme degree. So if people don't know what I'm talking about, we, as Christians, we do believe we are not of the world, but we are in the world. But a lot of these teachings were like, no, you can't dress in black. You can't listen to any music with drums. You can't do this. It's very like rules focused and very much wanting to separate Christian society out from the rest of society. And I don't mean, in other words, there can be a good thing about that, that we don't take part in sin. But it was going really far into things that I think most of us would say are issues of conscience. You know, like, my parents wouldn't let me wear black because the black was the devil's color. And it was just like stuff like that. Constantly hyper focused on the music you're listening to and not dancing. And it was just like very, very, very strict. And so I grew up like that. I wasn't allowed to listen to rock music, which I know is really funny. And when I discovered Christian rock music, my parents were really mad. My mom was like, christian rock music is even worse than secular rock music because it is wolves in sheep's clothing. They're trying to lead people to Satan by preaching Jesus or something like that. So I grew up that way. I just didn't know there was many people like it anymore. And so when we released this song, there was a group of people on the Internet that got really loud and felt that we were desecrating a Christian hymn and worshiping Satan and all sorts. And I thought it was a joke. I promise you, I swear I thought it was a joke at first. And I was laughing about it. And I had a few of my friends who are theologians and pastors, like, no, this isn't a joke. They're actually. And I was like, that's not real. Come on. Because we've been around for so long. So it kind of became a whole thing. And the good news is this. It drove streams, it drove people going to YouTube to see the video to find out what all the. And then people are like, wow. I went to see what was demonic about this, and I actually love this song. So good news is, is it helped us get the song out there. And.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

I think my. My favorite response was I watched a video from a girl's show. She's a podcaster. I think it was called former worship you leader or something like that. I can't remember. She sort of a deconstructed not really. No longer a Christian, but still spiritual and that sort of thing. And I watched her reaction video from watching our video for the first time, and you can see God moving on her throughout the event. She starts crying towards the end of it, and afterwards she says, if there was anything that would bring me back to my faith, it would be something like this. And it was the most. It made all the other nonsense like, who cares? God is on the move and God is changing people's lives. And it's just a reminder, never listen to the haters.

[A]

Oh, I'm getting chills and tears in my eyes just thinking about that. And I want to come back to that because I think you and the whole skillet message has really resonated with so many people that otherwise never would have encountered the gospel or Jesus Christ. And their whole life has been completely transformed from your music because it's not the traditional, necessary church hymn that we always associate with Christian music. I want to come back to that, but first, I'd love to spend a couple minutes unpacking this journey for you. I'm sure many people listen to your music and they're aware of who you are, but they may not not know how on earth you got into rock music and running a rock band for the last 30 years of your life, if. And you're wearing black, by the way, I have to point that out today. You were never allowed to wear black or listen to rock music growing up. Love that T shirt. I got to get my hands on one of those. How did God lead you into this ministry? I have to know the backstory.

[B]

Well, that's a great question. So, as I said, wasn't allowed to listen to rock music, but around sixth grade, and now people got to remember, because I'm assuming there's a lot of young people watching this podcast, I'm going to really make myself sound old. But you got to Remember in the 80s and 90s, in the 80s and 90s,. Like, heavy metal or even like hard rock, like. Like Bon Jovi. Okay. Or Motley Crue, Metallica. These bands were on, like, pop radio. I mean, in other words, it was so ubiquitous, you couldn't go to the shopping mall. Shopping malls were a really big thing in 90s. I know. They're not so much anymore. You couldn't go to the mall, you couldn't go to tcby, you couldn't go to Baskin Robbins without hearing, like, heavy metal on the radio. It was everywhere. And so if you had parents like mine that were like, heavy Metal is wrong. You would have to literally never leave your house because you're going to hear it everywhere you go. It was just so ubiquitous and I just loved the music. When I discovered Christian music, I just could not understand how my parents wouldn't let me listen to it because the message was so good and it strengthened my faith. I think that the biggest part of my story is this. In sixth grade, my mom got sick with cancer. She fought cancer for three years. She just wasted away over a three year period. She died when I was 15. I was a freshman in high school. After she died, it was sort of like everything's falling apart. Everybody's. The whole family's lives are falling apart. Christian music was there for me in an incredible way. God used Christian music to really keep me grounded in the faith. Honestly, I don't think that's an exaggeration. I really mean that God used it to make me not feel so alone. This is before the Internet. This is before these cell phones. We weren't texting our friends in the middle of the night. There's no such thing. You're just alone. And all you have is music. And God really used that in my life. I started singing in bands and stuff like that. And I just wanted to help people the way that Christian music helped me. And I believed it was powerful because I had experienced it in my own life. And that's how I got involved in Christian music. And God has used the band in ways I never would have imagined in a million years. I can't tell you how many thousands of people I've talked to who say, skillet is the reason that I did not commit suicide. Skillet is the reason I went into drug rehab. Skillet is the reason I go to church. It is so humbling. And sometimes I hear these stories and they're too crazy to almost believe they're true. But I keep hearing them over and over because the truth is this. I think it was actually St. Augustine who says, I'm sorry, I know it was St. Augustine who said, he who sings prays twice. And I think that is wonderful. What he's saying, you know, is you're praying because you're singing something because music is so powerful. It's. It's the most powerful, like, medium we have outside of preaching the word of God. And so when you're singing, you. You're doing both at the same time. You're worshiping and, you know, and I think that's something that people don't understand. I don't want to go too into depth on that. But every single human being on the planet worships, Period. We're all worshiping, and you're either involved in true worship of Jehovah or you're involved in false worship. You can be an atheist singing songs, you're worshiping something, and because of that, there's something very powerful about singing music that is inspired by the Holy Spirit, that is full of the Word of God, et cetera, and it changes people's lives.

[A]

You know, as you'll see from all of our fun holiday content coming to you over the next couple of days, the holidays are here people, and I am here to tell you that olive oil makes the perfect gift. Seriously, way better than just another pair of socks. I actually gave this as a gift to a family member of mine last weekend and Grazza, I am here to tell you is my go to for holiday shopping because their olive oil is incredibly fresh. You could even see the harvest date right on the bottle, which is such a thoughtful detail. They make gifting so easy this year with ready to go sets like their new Dinner Party pack which includes a limited edition bottle of wine, cooking and finishing oils, a custom corkscrew and extra virgin olive oil potato chips. Basically a complete dinner party in a box. And they also have their classic duo gift set which I gave as a present last weekend to a family member of mine with both the sizzle and drizzle oils available in squeeze bottles or in glass. I love Graza olive oil. It truly tastes, really tastes so much better than pretty much anything else I've ever cooked with. The bottles and the packaging are just beautiful and I use it multiple times a day as we are cooking seed oil free in the Belcher family household. So if you're really caring about helping your loved ones become healthier every single day and making your family healthy again as we seek to make America healthy again too, trust me, you will want this in your gift rotation for 2025. You guys can get 10 off your first order on their site and I personally recommend their new dinner party pack or that duo gift set that I mentioned now available in glass bottles too. Head to Grazza Co Isabel and use Code isabel to get 10% off your order and get cooking this holiday season with some fresh delicious olive oil. It absolutely does. 100%. There's a great song. I think it's a Michael Fronte song if I remember incorrectly about how everyone deserves music too. It's this really powerful concept that music tends to resonate with the soul, unlike most mediums on earth And I certainly have found that to be true in my life. I know you have as well, especially working in the music industry. And I find it so telling that you and your music and your band has been such a special and unique thing that has resonated with so many Americans to find Christ and people all over the world as well, but especially as the church tends to change in America throughout my lifetime. We just did a whole episode about this a few days ago. We're watching this kind of tug of war between good and evil. We're watching this tug of war between light and darkness. And in many ways, even the church tends to be participating in that today, which is really hard for us to grapple with. I think you're watching churches abandon actual theology and our knowledge of God for what's woke and culturally appropriate. You're seeing the Nicene Creed or the Apostles Creed get thrown out for the Sparkle Creed. And yet these are the same people who might be screaming at you guys about how you are too heavy and too dark and not accessible for a real person who might be searching for God today. Can you tell us after 30 years, which I believe you said was this year correct, 11 albums, thousands of shows, what have you seen in our country in terms of that message resonating with people and finding people where they're at to bring them to God through your music?

[B]

Yeah, I mean, I think that what we're seeing right now, you know, when I met you a few years back, was after I began talking about more issues, culture issues. I would say maybe some people call it political, but I would call it cultural, moral, theological issues, because we weren't really doing that before. This is also a lot of the big difference between when Skillet started In the early 2000s, politics wasn't something that really divided people and really that much. I mean, certainly people had passionate opinions. But when I was first starting Skillet, I never knew anybody that would be like, I will not be your friend if you voted for Bush. You know, it just wasn't a thing. I don't remember that ever. And that sort of. That began really changing, I think in the. In the mid 2010s, 2013, 2014, you began to see this. I didn't know it at the time, but this secular social justice. It was the beginning of the woke stuff. We didn't call it woke at the time. I think they called it political correctness and social justice. Now I look back and I say, well, it was just like anti American Marxism and critical race theory and a lot of this stuff. Right when that started happening, what I think that the church tended to do, I shouldn't say the church, a portion of the church, what you're talking about, this conflict. I think probably with good intentions. This is usually what happens. People want to do something with good intentions, and they just totally screw it up. And they totally wreck it because they don't understand that God's ways are right. And you need to stick to the Bible. Just because you think something's a good idea and you think it's going to have good results doesn't mean you should try it. Okay. I think that the church started saying, hey, the world loves this social justice stuff. The world loves this BLM stuff. The world's loving this President Obama, yes, we can love, love, love unicorns. The world loves that stuff. And so we should show that we love it, too, because Jesus has love and unicorns more than everybody. And so they totally started wrecking biblical theology. They started wrecking the way they would come across. They started doing the same thing, frankly, that Obama was doing, which was like, Obama's rhetoric is really good. Okay, let's just be honest. Obama knows how to give a speech. He knows how to say things in a way that is very palatable. I mean, that's why he was so popular when. Even before he ran for president. I remember his book. My wife bought it for me back in, I don't know, 2005 or 2006. The audacity of Hope, I think it was called. His rhetoric is really good. And he finds ways to get his point across that have enough ambiguity in them that you might swallow. You might swallow the pill without knowing what you're swallowing. And so churches started saying that we want to do that, and so they started making everything lukewarm. That's why I started speaking out in 2018 and 2019, because it took me a while to understand what was going on. And I saw it happening in the Christian music world. It was happening with my peers. They were beginning to say things that I thought were deeply wrong, deeply immoral, against the Bible, et cetera. And so where do I think we're at now? I do think that grapple is still happening. And I think, frankly, I believe that God has used a lot of platforms such as Daily Wire and lots of other people, my friend Elisa Childers and Ali Beth Stuckey and all sorts of people like that. I think God has used those platforms to say things that the church doesn't say anymore or that a lot of the church doesn't say anymore. And I think that it is those people that are lighting a fire underneath the Christian church in America to say, why have you compromised? Why have you become so weak? You have lost your prophetic voice and God is raising other people up from outside of the church to do the job you're supposed to do. And so I think when we saw the assassination of Charlie Kirk, all of a sudden you began to see, this is so very clear. There is a group of people in this country that want to get very serious. We believe that the, the West, Western civilization is on the brink. And we are this close to losing the, the greatest, most free nation on planet Earth. And all the entire history of civilization, we're this close to losing it. And if the church doesn't wake up, I think it'll be gone. That's where I think we're at.

[A]

That's so poignantly stated. And I think you're right. The tipping point. I hesitate to say turning point because I don't know if we've totally turned yet, but the tipping point for so many people was Charlie's assassination three months ago. I still can't believe it's been three months. It doesn't really still feel real. I think it'll take some time to totally sink in. But what felt like was going on in the shadows and underneath the surface at the foundational level of society with this light versus darkness, good versus evil, back and forth, all of a sudden, the curtain was instantly yanked back. We all can see it with our own very two eyes right now. And it seems to be getting louder and louder, just as good is getting louder in society. And you're watching the better angels of people be a lot more bold. We're also watching darkness and evil and sin get a whole lot louder in society too. So what role can we play as people of faith? With whatever sphere of influence we have, whether we have a rock band or a podcast or nothing, none of those things. To be in the world, not of it, but in it. And constantly trying to bring more people to the light as that darkness gets louder.

[B]

Yeah, fantastic. You know, the biggest thing we can do, honestly, is have families, have kids. Raise your kids up in the fear and admonition of the Lord. Teach your kids worldview, teach your kids biblical theology. Don't shelter them from everything. I was very, very sheltered and it ended up not really helping me. Now I had great godly parents I'm very thankful for, and I understand why they did what they did, but I think I've learned from that. For instance, My mom wanted to protect me from evil ideologies, so she kept me ignorant of those ideologies. And I think there's a better way. I don't think that the answer is saying, I'm not going to let my kids learn about Darwinism, Darwin's evolution. They should learn about Darwin's evolution and they should learn why we believe that that's not true, what the biblical, what the biblical story of creation is, etc. And you should take them to the, the Bible Museum and the Noah's Ark stuff, whatever you need to do. They don't need to be ignorant of these things. They can, they can learn for themselves and they can come to knowledge. That's a good thing. We need to be prepared for all of the various arguments. You need to hear the best version of Darwin's evolution so that you can be prepared to argue it with the best defense from the Bible that you can. Because those things lead to death. They're really ugly worldviews. They need to understand nihilism, they have to understand Marxism, they have to understand these things and Freud so that they can understand who God has made them to be in the world that he created. His good world. Where do I belong? Let me tell you, son, this is where you belong in God's good world. And this is how you're going to have happiness. You know, I think that's the biggest thing we can do. Secondly, I would just encourage people to continue to have this balance. And I'm not suggesting that I'm super good at this, by the way. Trying to become better of love and grace, like truth and grace. Speak the truth. Stop being shy. The world is. The world is sharing their thoughts, man. They are, they are cremating us. You know, it's like this loud group of radicals on the Internet have totally upended American society. There's not actually that many of them. It's probably like 15%, 10, 15% of the culture that believed some of this crazy, insane stuff. Well, then why don't we get loud? We can love people and we can be nice, we can be polite, but we're going to have to get loud if you want to save the West. I would also encourage Christians to not have this escapist sort of idea. Sort of like, well, the world doesn't matter anyway. The Bible says the world's going to die and burn anyway and Jesus is going to come back and save us, so we don't need to try to save the world. I don't understand that message. Whether you, no matter what you believe about eschatology, even if you do believe that's what the Bible teaches about the end of the world, I don't understand how you cannot care about ideologies that lead to death. I mean, it's like, okay, fine, you believe that's what's going to happen in the end, but what about right now? What about the fact that like, your neighbor's kids are going to schools with like drag queens coming into their schools and, and reading to your 6 years old? Like, certainly you love the kids more than that. Whether you believe, you know, this end time, apocalyptic, whatever or not, I don't know, I just can't really imagine. To me, that's just not really loving your neighbor as you ought. So that. That's the end of my sermon anyway.

[A]

No, I love that. And I think it's so huge to be focusing on the next generation in particular. Uh, you have grown kids, which is amazing. So you know a whole lot more about parenting than me. Although I have been told there is no such thing as a parenting expert. You're learning on the job for the rest of your life. I am a beginner student. I'm a kindergartner in parenting right now with a seven month old. So as my family starts to navigate these things, and I know tons of our listeners have young families as well, do you have any advice to young parents on how to strike that balance of exposing your kids to some of the tougher things of the world and then leading them towards the light to make sure that they're aware of the full spectrum?

[B]

Well, that's wonderful. Yeah. You know what I think, Isabel? I think that most, even most Christian people going to church that I think probably love God, want to serve God, there's always this tendency to not. You have kids and then you want to teach your kids to do all these things that you don't do. You know what I'm saying? It's like, don't use that language. Yeah, I know Daddy does. Don't use that language. You know, or whatever it may be, you know? You know, if you want your kids to pray before they go to bed, you probably should pray before you go to bed. You know, it's like these things that you want to do. I just find that a lot of times parents, we don't dig into a Christian worldview, but we want to somehow raise our kids in it. So I would just encourage people listening. For one thing. I think you're already doing something that's really good. You're listening to the Isabel show. That's really good. Because the truth is that people are only now discovering these kind of platforms that are giving material that we desperately needed. Ten years ago, I actually told Michael this when I saw him a few months back. The first best defense against abortion that I heard was from Ben Shapiro when I started listening to his podcast in 2015. Because I was going, I already shared earlier, I was going through my, okay, wait a minute. Churches are saying things that I don't understand. Churches were getting soft on abortion, in my opinion. I think I was maybe getting soft on abortion. And I was like, well, I'm not. I'm not really hearing anybody give a down the line thing. And I saw this guy called Ben Shapiro on a Fox News segment and I thought, I wonder if I could hear more of him. And somebody says he's got a podcast. I said, what's a podcast? So I start listening to Ben Shapiro and I hear him talking and I was like, wait a minute, this Jewish guy is giving a better defense for abortion than any church that I've been a part of. And this is not good. And so my point is that people are already doing that. So I would just say this. If you want your kids to become people of prayer, you got to become a person of prayer. If you want your kids to learn how to sing to Jesus, you've got to be a dad and a mom who like to sing to Jesus. Your kids need to see that. The best thing we ever did for our kids was that we would worship with our kids. We'd sing a hymn, we'd sing a psalm, or I'd turn on worship music and we would just worship in our living room. And I taught my kids how to sing to God and how to pray to God, how to raise. Don't be ashamed to raise your hands to God. You're surrendering everything to Jesus. My kids saw me cry because I was so moved by the grace of God in my life that he saved someone like me. My friends, my kids saw me cry out to God to ask them to save friends that don't know Jesus, that my kids also knew. And they began to pray for them. You know, when I remember when my daughter was six years old, we toured with a band, I won't say their name, secular band, metal band that I had not met prior to the tour. Two weeks before the tour, one of the band members, brothers, killed themselves, committed suicide, jumped out of a window. And we started the tour and we, me and my kid, my wife and my kids, we were praying every night we were praying for this guy, praying for him to have peace. And two weeks into the tour my little five or six year old daughter runs into him for the first time and I introduce my daughter and she says to him, I pray to Jesus for you every single night that you'll have peace. And you see a grown man start weeping and you're like, I don't. This is. You can't make your kids do something that you're not modeling. So that's what I would encourage people to do.

[A]

Last little break before we get back to the episode. But I have to tell you, the Daily Wire Shop's best deals of the year are still live right now. But today is your last day to order for Christmas delivery. Frankly, I need to hear this amongst do you, some of you, because we put these things off until the very last minute. But if you're like me and you have some last minute gifting you absolutely have to get done, you need to pick up some gifts like the Golden Leftist Tears tumbler. It is spectacular. It looks beautiful. The Truth Bomb Golf Club covers the collected poems of Donald J. Trump, the poet of our time. Hats, T shirts, hoodies and a whole lot more. And if you're ordering over 100 bucks, you get free shipping on your order too. Whether you're shopping for your super based uncle, your freedom loving mom, or just treating yourself for surviving another year of absolute insanity, we have got you covered here at the Daily wire. Head to dailywire.com shop right now. Time is running out. Do not wait. That's DailyWire.com shop good advice, one I needed to hear for sure. And I think that's so true. Our kids see what they see in the home and that becomes normal to them. And I've said for a long time, if we really want to change society, it has to start with the conversation you're having around the family dinner table. I think it's really fascinating throughout my lifetime and the past several decades more in particular, that our culture has so intentionally discouraged conversations about politics, which I really think is about values at this point and about religion around the family dinner table. If you're not having those conversations there, where else are your kids gonna get exposed to this stuff? They never are. Which I think is why so many Christian families are shocked and amazed when their children grow up. And then at 18 years old, they really don't know what they believe or have a solid foundation of a values base. And then they get dropped off at these colleges and universities where they just blindly accept their professors as the experts telling them that God isn't real, that they're evil if their skin color looks a certain way, that men are all evil and destroying society. And all of a sudden there's just this barrage of information they've never been exposed to before. So, so, so important. And I totally agree with that. In our last couple minutes together, I would really love to unpack this idea of being different from the rest of the world, especially as Christians, and not to be discouraged by that, but to continue leaning into it. Um, I love your shirt today because it really reminds me of all of the T shirts that Charlie used to wear when he was speaking on college campuses. And Charlie always, always believed and gave me tons of advice over the years that if you are receiving the praise of this world, you are doing everything wrong. Like, you should regularly be expecting to be attacked and get name called and all kinds of cancel culture things slugged at you from every direction. And I know you guys are dealing with that as a band, even from within the Christian community in our country right now. How do you have hope through that? How can you cling to the words of Christ that if the world hates you know that it hated him first? And what advice do you have for other people who may be listening to this feeling set apart and different from the world, not to shy away from it?

[B]

Mm. Great. Great question. Wow. And also, I wanna end by telling you a story, so don't. Don't let me forget to tell you something that you're gonna like.

[A]

Perfect.

[B]

Yeah. I do think it's really important for us to understand. Remind ourselves, for instance, if you. If people listening know God, we have to understand that we have been saved. And saved doesn't mean just going to heaven when you die. Of course, that's the best thing in the whole world. But it also means that we have been saved from thinking in wrong ways. Thinking in ways that. That. That lead us to hurting ourselves. Thinking in ways that lead to death. Because really, in Christian theology, really what you're dealing with is that there are two choices. In fact, the Bible says it. I give you two. I give you choices between life and death. Choose life that you may live. I mean, that's what the Bible. That's what God says in the Old Testament to Israel. There's really two choices. You can choose a way that leads to life. You can choose a way that leads to death. And so, yes, that is going to heaven when you die. But that's also the choices you make here if you decide to live a life. All right. Let's just say you're a man and you choose to live a life that is pornography and sex outside of marriage. Infidelity. If you're married, you're having extramarital affairs. That's going to lead to terrible, terrible things in your life. Because people maybe don't understand. You're a slave to this thing. You are a slave to addiction. It is ruling over you. Christ died to set you free from that tyranny and that evil, that ball and chain. He opens up the lock and now you're set free from the chain. Unless you just want that in your life for some horrible reason. So what we have to understand is that the people that we go to school with or we go to college with, or that our kids, their parents and, you know, our friends, our neighbors, whatever, they are still under that tyranny. And it's so terrible, they don't know it. They are deceived because the enemy wants to deceive them and he has deceived them. So we don't need to live in a way that we are angry with them, that they've been lied to and they are brainwashed, if you will, by the devil, by evil ideologies. They think that those things lead to life, but they don't, right? They think they're finding pleasure in them, but they don't understand that that's a passing pleasure. And when the pleasure runs out, they are going to be rock bottom. You know what I'm saying? So I think what we have to understand is that we cannot be angry with these people. We have to have compassion for them, and we love them through it. And we pray that the enemy stops deceiving them so that they can hear the truth. When it comes to getting made fun of, losing your job, getting canceled, whatever that thing is, I think we just have to know on the front end. One of my favorite things I heard as a young person was somebody saying that giving your life to Jesus is like an empty sheet of paper. It's like a contract. You know, you sign a contract when you get a job and yes, I'll do this, or yes, I'll do this, or, you know, something like that. And you sign your name at the bottom. He says, it's like an empty piece of paper with a signature line. And you sign the signature line and you give it to God and you say, now you fill it in. Whatever you say, you're the boss. Whatever you tell me to do, I do. Wherever you tell me to go, I go. I am all in being all in for Jesus means yes. You're going to experience some of these things. You may get canceled, you may lose your job, you may lose your friends, et cetera, et cetera. And I just think making that decision on the front end is a really great thing to do. And I will end by saying this. Some of those people that treated you that way, as soon as, God forbid, God forbid, if they get cancer, if their kid gets cancer, if they lose their job, if they run into alcoholism, you are going to be the first person they call. That's what's going to happen. God forbid. I don't want any of them to get cancer. If all hell breaks loose in their lives, their husband or wife is cheating on them, you're the first person they're going to call. In 20. 20 people that I went to church with for 20 years were upset with me and were calling me an extremist and calling me a conspiracy theorist, because I shared at my church, I was sharing with them transgender ideology. And I was giving them all the receipts. This is what they're teaching your kids at school. And they accused me of lying. They accused me of making things up, trying to foment hatred. And a year later, when their six year old came home with the gender unicorn, I got a call. Sorry about that. You're the first person they're going to call when all hell breaks loose. Because even if they think you're a weirdo, they can see that you have something they don't have, which is peace. We have peace with God. We have peace in life. So that. That would be my encouragement.

[A]

That is so beautiful. And that piece definitely is visible, right? You know, when someone is walking in the grace of the Holy Spirit, when they're sharing that WISD with the world. And that's what I pray all of us can have the courage to embrace every day. You said you had a great story for me, so I'm dying to hear it. As we close out the episode today.

[B]

I am dying to tell this story I'm gonna tell you and I'm gonna tell our friend Ali here soon, because I haven't been able to share this yet. And it's to do with our song, O Come, O Come Emmanuel. So the reason people are really mad about the song is because it starts and it sounds like a classic Christmas song. And then halfway through, it's the heaviest, hardest thing the skillet has ever done. It's really heavy and I'm screaming really loud. The reason we did that is because it is a juxtaposition this is an Advent song, right? We call it a Christmas song. It's really an Advent song. This is about crying out to God because we are so desperate for the Messiah. And now, of course, this is meant to be before the first Advent. This is about Jesus being born, right? Israel is waiting for the Redeemer. We are waiting for the Messiah. Death is a tyrant over us. We are all going to die. And we are waiting for the Messiah to come and end the tyranny of death. The reason Skillet decided to go so heavy is because this is the moment that we are expressing this turmoil that we are in. Things are not as they should be. Kids are still dying from cancer. You know, the world is still under threat of wars and all this horrible stuff. Things will never be perfectly right until the second advent of Christ. And so the story I want to tell you is this. Most of the song is just keyboards, piano. In other words, it's all stuff that was just done on computers and my wife playing the piano parts, et cetera. The second half of the song, we had to go into the studio to record all the heavy guitars, which is the hard part. And as we are in there recording the hard part, that is expressing the fact that the world isn't right, I get a text message saying, oh, my God, Charlie Kirk was just shot and we don't know if he's gonna make it. And I will never forget it. Every time I hear the song, I am reminded of the poignancy of what this song is expressing and the amount of hurt. I didn't know Charlie that it affected me so deeply, and I didn't even know him. And I'm getting all these text messages from people that I didn't even know. Their kids even knew who Charlie Kirk was. And they're like, john, my son is freaking out. What do we do and what's going on? And I'm texting back saying, I'm talking with Lucas Miles, who's tpusa Faith, and there's a prayer chain and we're praying for a miracle. I don't know what's going to happen. Nothing expresses that to me better. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Nothing illustrates what we were trying to express in our song more than that moment. And it all happened then. And I just wanted to share that with people who. Who knew Charlie because it's kind of meaningful to me.

[A]

That's incredibly meaningful and not the first, I believe, not coincidence of incredibly powerful and moving stories like this. You know, I think it's still Three months in. Been really hard for those of us who know Charlie and who've worked with him for 10 years or so and who have gotten this upfront seat in his life for it to fully sink in what this looks like. And it's been really hard for us to understand why this happened, I think because it's someone who was truly the best of us. He really did represent the wisdom of the Holy Spirit and being set apart from the world and having courage in our faith unlike anyone of his age. And I truly believe Charlie was on the path to sainthood. I really do. But I think also we're kind of weirdly starting to understand the purpose in all of this. As believers, we know that God works all things together for good. And what God has been able to accomplish through Charlie's death in bringing the Holy Spirit to millions, if not a billion plus people all over the planet, through moments just like this, through songs like this, through unbelievable distribution thanks to the Internet and music and all of these different mediums, we are all just completely blown away. And it's a powerful reminder that everyone's life has such a much bigger impact than you ever could possibly realize. And we all can continue to bring Christ to people in Charlie's honor and also in just what we're called to as Christians. Every day. I have chills from that story. Thank you so much for sharing that with me. And I know our audience is really gonna love hearing that too.

[B]

Oh, you got it. It is so good to chat with you again. Take care of that little one. And just want to thank everybody out there for all the support. I appreciate it so much.

[A]

If you guys have not yet listened to Skillets. Oh, come. Oh come, Emanuel. It is very, very powerful. You have to go listen to it today. I'd be shocked if you haven't heard it yet at this point, but as we are continuing this Advent season, it is worth a listen. John, where can people follow you and your wife, the band, and continue supporting your music?

[B]

Oh, yeah, yeah. Spotify, of course. Apple Music, Skillet on. On the Socials. It is Skillet music that's on Insta, YouTube, etc. Go check all that stuff out. And my handle on Socials is John L. Cooper and you can find me on, on all that kind of stuff. And hopefully we'll see you down the road at a rock show.

[A]

Yes, indeed. Yes, indeed. We'll have to catch your show very, very soon and have you back on the show soon as well. God bless you, my friend, and thank you for being here. Thank you beyond grateful for our amazing friends at Skillet, John and Corey Cooper and Jen Ledger for their constant voice of light in the darkness. And let me just say, for those of you still so upset about all of this, let's just. Let's just pray. Let's pray for some wisdom. Pray for some calm spirit going in into the Christmas season. There's a lot of things to be upset about in 2025, but this for sure isn't one of them. I also want to close today's episode. I know we didn't get a chance to talk about this yet, and I'm hoping we have a chance to talk about it tomorrow. Praying for all of the victims of the two major shootings that we saw over the weekend. First at Brown University, which claimed the lives of, I believe, two students so far, and the the shooting in Australia at Bondi beach, attacking the Hanukkah celebration that was happening there at the hands of Islamic terrorists. Our world desperately needs the light of Christ more than ever before. So as we continue to navigate the evil and the sin and the darkness that is being introduced into our world by truly satanic and truly demonic influences, I pray that we all have the courage to be the Light and to continue proclaiming the good word of the Gospel and the love of Jesus Christ to the world as we await the coming of Emmanuel this year and eventually when Jesus Christ returns here on this earth. I love you all so very much. We'll talk about both of those heavy topics later in the week, but in the meantime, have an amazing Monday and the countdown to Christmas is on. Don't forget to subscribe on your way out wherever you are watching or listening to the show and head to your favorite podcast platform and leave us a five star review as we continue to grow our community of truth seekers into a very exciting year in 2026. See you tomorrow.