← The Isabel Brown Show
The Isabel Brown Show
The Conservative “Civil War” After Charlie Kirk: Can MAGA Survive 2026?
01:11:01
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They grow up so fast. One day they're taking their first steps and the next they don't fit into the tiny sneakers they took them in. You blink your eyes and their princess dress is two sizes too small and their dinosaur backpack isn't cool anymore. But don't cry because they're growing up. Smile because you can profit off of it for real. There are a bunch of parents on Depop looking for the stuff your kid just grew out of. Download Depop to start selling. Hey gang, it's Isabelle and I am traveling for the holidays and I say holidays, including Christmas, because it is still Christmas. So Merry Christmas to all of you and Happy almost New Year. More and where I am traveling with my family in just a few days. But in the meantime, we recorded some amazing content at TPUSA's America Fest just a few weeks ago that I am dying to share with you, especially in the midst of what many people are calling the conservative Civil war. Yes, not a great time, particularly when it comes to trying to make friends with a whole bunch of people in the movement. But we're doing what we can and trying to tell the truth to everyone in a united front against the lies of leftism, extreme radical Islam, government corruption and censorship all over the world, and so much more. So how do we come together? How do we continue to honor the life and legacy of our friend Charlie Kirk in the wake of his passing going into this new year in 2026? And how do we bring our conservative movement together when the world needs us the most? All of this and more today on the Isabelle Brown Show. First up at amfest, we had a chance to sit down with two of Charlie Kirk's closest team members and people who have been in the spotlight a whole lot over the last couple of months in the wake of his assassination. For first, Andrew Colvett, the executive producer of the Charlie Kirk show, as well as Mikey McCoy, who was Charlie's chief of staff and one of his closest, closest friends in all of the most recent years that they've been working together. You guys, I'm sure, have a lot of questions for both of them and we tried to answer preemptively, as many of them as we possibly could. I have personally known Andrew and Mikey for many, many years and it was a pleasure to sit down with them in a new context. Not working with them at tpusa as I did for many years, but now over at the Daily Wire, getting to ask them about the continued legacy of the Charlie Kirk show, of Turning Point usa, who Charlie was to them, what they will miss the most about their friend, and how we can come together and unify this movement in a time where that seems really difficult and to some, many are saying impossible, but I think is even more important now going into 2026 than ever before. So first up, please join me in welcoming the amazing Andrew Colvette, executive producer of the Charlie Kirk show to the show. We are joined here on the floor of America Fest 2025 in Phoenix, Arizona with my friend Andrew Colvette, the producer of the Charlie Kirk Show. Andrew, it's amazing to see you.
- [03:35]
B
It's amazing to see you, honestly. We've known each other a long time.
- [03:37]
A
I know you've seen me go through a lot of eras of Isabel.
- [03:42]
B
You're gonna go on your Eras tour?
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A
Sure, yeah, we love that. Although now we don't necessarily need to. The Eras tour is all about Charlie and that's what I'm being reminded of everywhere we go in this convention center. Seeing so many incredible photos of him, of his family and unpacking all of his era of legacy through Turning Point usa.
- [03:58]
B
He had a bunch of eras. He did the many looks of Charlie, the many hairdos of Charlie.
- [04:03]
A
Somebody asked me yesterday about Charlie in the early years when I first met him for a project we were filming and all I could think about was ill fitting suits and New Balance white dad sneakers. Before the dad sneakers were cool, it was like way before those.
- [04:15]
B
This was distinctly when they were not cool actually. And that's, I mean, you know, I've gotten asked a lot of questions and so it was a 14 year old girl, I think her name is, her show is like honey, American Honey. So a little shout out to her. It was great because, you know, she, she asked me, she's like, what did you like most about Charlie? And I was like, that's an amazing question. And actually, and you could relate to I think a lot of these things, the ill fitting suits. I love that he did not care about visuals, about himself at least he cared about aesthetics for events and, and other things, videos. But for himself he just, it was just such an afterthought. Like, I guess I have to put a suit on, so. Yep, you know, we'll just take it off the round.
- [04:56]
A
I saw him do a Fox News hit at our office when we had one tiny little podcast news studio in the office.
- [05:02]
B
That was big moves, though.
- [05:03]
A
It was. It was huge moves when we built that out. And in the era of COVID especially when everything was Zoom and everything was Skype, he would come into the office wearing basically, like, slippers or sneakers, basketball shorts, and then on top was a whole suit look.
- [05:15]
B
Yep. And he always had the long socks. So he would walk around the office with shorts and long socks, and, you know, he would be like, well, they're good for circulation. I'm a tall guy. I need help with circulation. And so they were always like, really tight socks all the way up to the knees. And, you know, it's those moments with Charlie that, you know, a lot of people know Charlie from his social media videos and the debate clips and the Charlie Kirk show, his speeches. But for me, and I think for you too, and you can relate to this, it was those moments, you know, running in between one thing and the next or the car rides or the plane trips. And he was just such a great guy. He was. What I loved about traveling with Charlie was he was such an impatient guy. Like, legitimately one of the most impatient people. So if you were running two minutes late, he was already. You could feel it, the energy on him. I think in some ways, God put this little timer in the back of his head, and he just knew that he had to make the most of his time, you know, but when you would travel with him, he was stuck. And you would get this side of Charlie where you would realize how funny he was. He was legitimately one of the funniest guys. He made me, like, belly laugh more than anybody else in the last eight years when I worked with Charlie. And he was so generous and he was so kind and loyal. He would never speak ill of you, even in private. And, you know, even if he had something funny to say about somebody or maybe. Maybe he was tempted to say something unnice, he would just go, you know, give you that look, wash my hands immediately. You know, he was. He was just a genuinely. Just a genuinely wonderful guy. And, you know, I find it striking that over the course of eight years, I didn't get more annoyed with him and be like, man, I'm burned out. I need a change. It was like, I am more impressed with how he's grown, how mature he's become, being a family man and a father and a husband. How that changed him and added to his just the depth of his character. So there was just so many things to love about Charlie, and I really want people to know him in 3D, you know, not just the caricature, not just what the left says of him or what the right says of him. He's just a wonderful human being.
- [07:29]
A
On that note, we talked about this with Mikey a little bit last night, but we're struggling to find the balance between celebrating and honoring and realizing the whole of the legacy that Charlie has left behind. He was this intellectual giant. He was the face that we see on TikTok to millions of followers. He was the podcast and radio host, but he also was a real person. And in many ways, you, more than anyone, watched Charlie grow up over the last several years. I think the question on everyone's mind is, how are you guys doing, really? And I know people have asked you this a million times. Obviously, it's impossible to even remotely characterize the entire emotional spectrum of what people are going through, but people seem confused as to the response of TP USA still putting on events like this, the Charlie Kirk show still carrying forward and doing episodes. They're confused that it's not appropriate somehow.
- [08:16]
B
Because I would think, yeah, I mean, I think it would be inappropriate if we didn't do this. You know, I'll be really honest. I think it sounds macabre to some or morbid or whatever, but the day Charlie was killed, you know, there was a group of us at the hotel in Salt Lake City where we just kind of ended up somehow. I don't even know how we ended up there. And we. You know, in those moments where you're devastated and you're shell shocked, you know, somebody made a joke. They're like, you know, Charlie would be mad that we're not streaming right now. And that's like. I mean, it's sort of true. I mean, anything would happen. Charlie would. You'd get the memo. Like, get to the studio. Get to the studio. Gotta stream, Gotta stream. And that, you know, Charlie, Charlie gave his life for this country for free speech. I believe he's a martyr. And we would be derelict in our duty to the mission that he built, to the movement he built, and to this organization he built. If we didn't do everything in our power to squeeze every last drop of energy and momentum and this outpouring of love in our power to do, I mean, we'd be derelict in our duty. So I, you know, I'm certainly excited About Christmas, somebody asked me, you know, what do you plan to do for the holidays? And I was like, I just want to, like, snoop, snuggle on the couch with my kids, watch some great Christmas movies, eat some food and take a break. I mean, there's no doubt the team needs that, and I'm excited about it. But how do you grieve? That's a really interesting question. How do you grieve? People have asked me, have you grieved this? And I'm like, I don't know. I genuinely don't know. I've tried my best. I've prayed, I've had cried plenty of tears and. But there's no roadmap for this. There's no what happened with Charlie in front of the whole world. And for us to be sort of thrust into this position, there's no right or wrong way, I would think. And, you know, we're just doing the best we can.
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A
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B
Well, so the way that I understand it is, you know, we're still out of ways. We're not going to have what's called the evidentiary hearing or the probable cause hearing until May. And so that's really the first time that we're going to be presented with evidence that you haven't seen that has already been explained in the charging document. And so the charging document is pretty detailed. I recommend everybody read that. And I guess in May, then they're going to reveal their probable cause. So why we are now able to Take this to a full jury trial. So they have to lay that out in front of the judge and they will reveal new evidence that they have. I'm told there's mountains of new evidence in addition to the charging documents. So, you know, I'm. I hope that the transparency of the trial is really good for the Internet, really good for educating people in the civic process and in a judge and jury process. You know, it occurs to me that a lot of people chiming in that, you know, want things done a certain way, don't understand the way the judicial system works. The criminal justice system works.
- [14:28]
A
Yeah.
- [14:29]
B
And so it's going to be an opportunity for people to relearn that, a whole new generation to relearn that. Because obviously Charlie meant a ton to Gen Z, high schoolers, Gen Alpha even. And so they need to. They need to see this play out and see how it actually works. And I think there's going to be, I think if you have an open mind, you're going to see that this case is pretty open and shut.
- [14:52]
A
You know, I think that's been surprising to people because there's this expectation in our instant gratification culture where you're expecting an answer five minutes. And especially when you can have your favorite pharmaceuticals delivered to your door in an hour from Amazon, the idea of waiting months and months and months.
- [15:05]
B
The criminal justice system does not work at the speed of TikTok. That is certainly true. And that chasm on a timing basis is really playing out. I mean, we were hoping it was going to happen in, you know, we were like. And then we were here in March, April, and then it went all the way to May. And I was just like, come on. You know, but it is what it is. And you know, this, this judge, I think is doing everything he can to make sure that there's nothing that, you know, he's. He could sort of give the defense a foothold for, you know, trying to peel something or reversible error, as they call it. I'm learning all this stuff too.
- [15:39]
A
So it's really fascinating getting sort of one foot in being personally invested in the trial because this is our friend and we want justice to happen. But also watching the like 30,000foot societal reaction to all of this, it reminds me a lot of the Derek Chauvin trial that everyone had their eyes glued to. The last several years, the Idaho student murders. The last few years, people have been really invested in. And there's almost a temptation to treat this as like a Criminal Minds episode or a true Crime podcast, people sensationalizing things, making really wild claims on social media. If you could share a message for people on why they should trust the process and how this investigative process works, what would you say?
- [16:18]
B
Yeah, I mean, there's a couple things I would say there's been a lot of focus on the FBI. Well, this is actually not being. This case is not being run by the FBI. It's actually being run at the state and local level. So there's one thing, right? And I've been told that that's actually a good thing. It'll speed up the process. In a lot of ways, it's beneficial for getting justice. And I would also say you don't have to trust the process. Actually, I have questions. You know, one of the frustrations is that for me personally is, you know, I want to know if there was a conspiracy. I want to know if there were people that knew about this beforehand. I want to know if there was foreign funding. I want to know who radicalized this kid, if anybody, if it was, you know, there certainly is indication that people knew about it in advance. I want to know all those things. And so I'd say, you know, trust but verify, I guess, or don't trust at all. But, you know, follow the facts. Follow what, you know, you can see with your own two eyes and put together with your own common sense and go where it may. But, you know, there's a lot of actually, I think, really understandable potential conspiracies that you could look into. And I want to look into this. So I have questions. I'm not trusting everything. But, you know, follow the facts. Don't sensationalize them. Let them be what they are.
- [17:35]
A
Zooming in in a different direction on Charlie's Legacy a bit. I am blown away at everything we're seeing here at Amfest this year, especially having been at conferences way back in 2017 when there was a handful of.
- [17:47]
B
Students in the room, Holiday Inn and things like that.
- [17:49]
A
I actually looked through my camera roll the last few months because it's been really fun thinking about those first conferences and at the very first event I ever attended for TPUSA, it was YWLS in Dallas in 2017. It was in the hotel attached to the airport.
- [18:02]
B
Is that the. I know exactly which hotel that is. It might be a Hyatt.
- [18:06]
A
I think it's a Hyatt, if I remember it correctly. And there was maybe 500 to a thousand students there, maybe. And one of the nights we did a PJ party, and I have a picture of Me and Charlie with pajamas on.
- [18:17]
B
Did Charlie wear the PJs?
- [18:18]
A
Charlie wore the PJs. It was amazing. It was so girly and fun, but it's amazing to see it turn into this, right? I've been told there's 30,000 people here at 31,000, 31,000. 80% of whom are first time attendees at any TPUSA event. What does this mean for you and the team, both the Charlie Kirk show and Turning Point USA, to pick up that mantle and keep running in 2026?
- [18:39]
B
Yeah, I. I mean, it kind of blew us away, you know, after everything happened. You know, I think it was a couple days after somebody, maybe 10 days after somebody had the, you know, the thought, maybe we should look at how many tickets we sold for amfest. And we were like, we. We should probably turn the ticketing system up. I mean, because, you know, we in mourning. And yet things were happening behind the scenes that we weren't even aware of. But, yeah, to see it turn into this. You know, candidly, we were already trying to find a new venue for this event because we wanted. There was just being candid. We could have sold twice as many tickets. And we wanted everybody who wanted to be here for this to be able to come. But unfortunately, we had to turn off the ticketing. But it's just a testament to what Charlie meant to so many and how he changed so many lives, so many hearts. He. You know, I've said. I've said so many things about Charlie, it's hard to remember all the things, but some of the things that stand out is that, you know, he's a modern day founding father. He was a modern day prophet. He was a. He's a. And he's an American martyr, a Christian martyr. And he was the best, the very best of this country, all in one package. And that's the really amazing part about his life. And, you know, so many people here now see it, and people went back through the catalogs of all the. All the things he said and how he always integrated his faith into everything. So you get this. This political, but it's also. There's a lot of faith elements and you know, how much he talked about character and doing the right thing. And it was. It's just he. He was truly a light in the darkness, and he shone so brightly. And I'm so glad that so many people now realize that. And so when I see all of this around here, it's just, I hope that we take it and we seize it. I hope that we take the message, the lessons that he left us with and that we seize this moment. And, you know, a lot of people are worried about the infighting or the squabbling. And, you know, I don't worry about that stuff at all, actually, because I.
- [20:34]
A
Think Charlie never did.
- [20:35]
B
We're conservatives, We're a rowdy bunch. We like to mix it up. We have strong opinions. We're not hive minded collectivists. We're going to have differences of opinion on a lot of different topics. And sometimes we need to fight those out. Sometimes family business needs to be addressed. And, you know, maybe Charlie delayed some of that just by the sheer force of his personality and his influence, but it was gonna happen eventually. These fissures were behind the scenes for a long time. So let's have it out. Let's have the argument. Hopefully we can make it about ideas and not about personalities. Sometimes in our modern day and age, those are mixed. But I'm not. I mean, honestly, what a great place to have those. Imagine the other options that are at our disposal, like to do it at Amfest, to do it with the type of people and the quality of people we have here. This is the right place to do it. And I'd rather be doing it in December of an off year than August or September of an election year.
- [21:32]
A
Amen to that. You called Charlie something interesting there. A founding father, A modern founding father. I don't know if you know this, but the average length of an empire Charlie always used to repeatedly tell me into my head is 250 years. And he always believed that we were going to somewhat come to a reckoning as a country on our 250th anniversary, which we're headed into in just a few days. There's, in a way, a really interesting dichotomy between what's happening now and what happened in 1776. You're watching the founding fathers then have vehement disagreements to the point of literal duels and taking each other's lives over these.
- [22:04]
B
We were joking about that. I was like, we need to go. We just need to go back to, like, Aaron Burr and Hamilton and, you.
- [22:08]
A
Know, rap battle it out, maybe in 2026. But the founding Fathers disagreed on all kinds of stuff. And yet they shared a common vision for what this country and what this society would mean for the world. In the midst of what many people are calling the Civil War, the infighting or whatever, do you think this paves a path to us, really bringing the best ideas to the top and creating a new ethos? Of what it means to be a conservative.
- [22:30]
B
I mean, listen, we've had battles about foreign policy, about, you know, bombing foreign lands, and those have made the movement better and stronger. Honestly, we end at a better consensus. There's no, there's no timeline on how long that's going to take. So, yeah, this could take a while to kind of come to that new consensus, that new coalition, building consensus. But again, I think you have to just embrace that. Also, if you have a dynamic, charismatic leader, maybe it could be J.D. vance, but you're going to build a new coalition around whoever the, you know, the leader of the movement is going to be anyways. And so we're just working it out, we're hashing it out. Everybody. I mean, We've gone through 10 years of President Trump. That was a very contentious time. He did a hostile takeover of a dead and dying gop, brought in new elements, and we're going to see this renewal, this sifting. It happens periodically. And I think that's just what's happening. We're coming to kind of the tail end of a coalition that President Trump built. And we're going to see which elements are going to stay in and which elements are going to be filtered out, which new ones we can bring in, and hopefully we can, we can rebuild the entire entirety of the Trump coalition. But don't be afraid of the arguments that happen in the interim.
- [23:46]
A
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- [25:22]
B
I don't think I did, but I've.
- [25:23]
A
Heard that phrase a lot lately in the last few years. You and Tyler Boyer and Charlie Couric, and many people have told me all the years I worked at Turning Point at different times, that various people were the leader of the conservative movement. But I think it's become so obvious to everyone in the wake of Charlie's assassination that he was really the leader of the conservative movement. He set the ideological, the moral, the spiritual tone of everything that we do. And we held events like this multiple times a year to set that standard for everyone with a microphone and people with a platform and influence, whether that's in government, in media, or anywhere else in the movement. In your mind, what is the Kirk Doctrine, and what do you think we can all learn from that with him being the leader of the Conservative Party?
- [26:03]
B
That's a great question, the Kirk Doctrine, man. Everything flows downhill from faith in Jesus Christ. And there's room for other faiths there, too. But it's really. Charlie believed in a Christian nation. He wasn't a Christian nationalist. He just believed that. Whatever that means, by the way. But he just believed that this was a nation founded by Christians, for Christians. And there was a Jewish element even from the earliest days, and Catholic element, of course, Maryland. But that ultimately is the first step. Those values, those freedoms. Charlie used to always say, you know, those who drink from the streams of liberty will find its source. And so I think that's first and foremost is that. But it's get married, have kids, build things that matter, you know, hold up the good, the true, the beautiful. Always be looking to get back to those things when you stray off course. Build friendships, work out your differences behind the scenes, work together. Don't be afraid of who gets all the credit. You know, there's plenty to go around when you win, certainly, but win, win, build. Build the systems, and outwork your opponents. Outwork your opponents. And when. When. One of the things I learned from Charlie is that when negativity or controversy springs up, you know, do good work. The way you get through is through. You do good work, you work hard, and you advance positive lines. And that. That was always the guiding light. It's like, listen, we could get distracted over on this shiny thing or this feud or whatever the. Whatever it is, but we're going to be about doing good work. We're going to be about advancing the mission, and, you know, we're going to outwork everybody else. And if we do those things, good things are going to happen, and we're going to stay low, stay humble, stay close to Jesus, and just push forward.
- [27:54]
A
One person in particular has been tasked with doing that more than anyone, and that's the new CEO of Turning Point usa, Charlie's beautiful wife, Erica. Many people speculating on everything that they think they know about Erica Kirk, but you spend a lot of time with her day in and day out. What does the world need to know about who she is and how she's going to lead this company?
- [28:13]
B
You know, one of my favorite anecdotes, after everything happened, it was actually Blake Neff, who is on the show with us at the Charlie Kirk Show. And he was just like. I brought it up with him about Eric. I forget what we were saying. And he just had this instant reaction. He was like, what a woman. And I was like, that's well said. Beautiful. Yeah. What a woman, Blake. Coming from him, it felt just sort of appropriate and all those things. But, yeah, I mean, she's an incredible person, and she's found courage and poise and grace in the most unimaginable of circumstances. And Charlie told me multiple times, he told the board, he told everybody it was not a secret, that if anything happened to him, Erica was gonna be in charge. And I never really thought that hard about it, to be honest. Cause, you know, I thought Charlie was gonna be 98 by the time we lost him. But he chose well. He chose very well. And she is. She's very strong. She's very strong, and she has got a really incredible faith that is rock solid. She listens to the Lord, and it's almost kind of like this new era is almost a little bit like Deborah and Barack, you know, where she's, like, under the palm, like, praying, and God is talking to her and giving her wisdom and. And she's sort of dispatching her lieutenants out in the field to wage war. And, you know, I think that's a fun image, but, man, I will tell you that she is. We used to always joke that she was more conservative than Charlie. And there's that one clip that ended up going viral. And, man, we used to joke. I remember this one trip that we took from. It was from Iowa City to Chicago. We had a campus stop, and it was Erica, me and Charlie, and we got a rental car and we drove all the way up to Chicago because that's where Charlie was from. And, you know, we were debating immigration. This was back in Charlie's open border phase. So I called it. You know, he was never an open. I mean, I'm exaggerating, of course, but his beliefs evolved. Of course, like everyone else, Charlie came from Chicago, where there was. I think they had net population loss, and he went to a pretty diverse high school, and it was always fine. And it was pre woke era, though, so it was a little bit. Little different. And so he was like, no, look at all this farmland, all this corn, these corn fields. Like, we could have more people. We could get some productivity out of this. And Eric and I were like, no, no, close the border. Immigration moratorium. We're done. You know, like, we had this great, like, argument for, like, three hours in the car. And I remember getting out of the car going, like, looking at Erica and, like, doing a fist bump. And, like, we got this. And then slowly but surely, over the years, Charlie came around to our line of thinking. But, you know, Erica's just never. She's never struggled with those types of dilemmas or questions. She's solid as a rock, conservative. And I think, listen, she's the perfect choice. Charlie knew this. We know it. And I couldn't say enough good things.
- [31:14]
A
Amen. She's so, so beautiful. And I keep letting her know over the last few months. I totally see the Holy Spirit just radiating wisdom through her. It's a strength and a fortitude I've never seen from a human being. And I know she's going to inspire so many people. Last question, because I know you got a jet to a bunch of other things here at Amfest. Charlie is so much. He's a symbol, he was a leader. He set the tone for everyone. But he was also your friend. So what are you going to miss the most about your friend Charlie?
- [31:42]
B
Well, you might. You're going to try and get me, and I. I'm not. I'm not going to get emotional here. I'm going to miss. I'm Just gonna miss the ideation, the creativity. I'm gonna miss the plane flights because those were really, really fun. But I miss when he would call me and we would, you know, he didn't have to call me. He just like wanted to like, hear what he said out loud. And I'd be like, yeah, Charlie, that was great. Or you know, after, after a news hit and he'd be like, you don't want to go through the points? I'd be like, no, that was good. Or you gotta clear that up. And you know, there was just this way. It was almost like he needed a little bit of second hand affirmation or wrestling through an idea. And that was like a special place. Charlie and I shared together that I had a really unique role to play and a vantage point just to see the way he worked through how to be better, how to get better at his craft, but as a family member, as a leader, and I just miss that. It was just a, just a quietness and it's a closeness that I'm really gonna miss those quiet moments, honestly.
- [32:56]
A
Well, thank you, Andrew, for your continued bravery and courage and leadership. I'm so excited to see what's next for the Charlie Kirk show for Turning Point usa. And as always, thank you for letting me be a part of this family. Over the years. It's been an incredible journey.
- [33:09]
B
It's been great to watch you grow in the many eras and you're doing amazing and we're rooting for you and we have your back 100%. Good job.
- [33:16]
A
Thank you so much.
- [33:17]
B
Thanks.
- [33:18]
A
My Amazing friend Mikey McCoy joins us here on the floor of Amfest in Phoenix, Arizona. Mikey, talk to me about the environment. We are one full day into Amfest now. What's going on here in Phoenix?
- [33:31]
C
I mean, this is super exciting. And for the first time ever, I mean, we broke record numbers. And I shared this earlier today. Charlie, back in 2022, cast a three year plan with the most ridiculous goals for every department. You probably saw this, by the way, as he always did, Vision 2025, as he always did. And all of us were like, these are unattainable. Why are you trying to get us to do these? But slowly but surely under leadership, pressure, and this visionary that he was, he pushed us to achieve every single one of those goals. But there was one left. There was one goal left that he didn't even get to see before he was murdered and taken from us. And it said 25,000 people at America Fest. And you can ask, you know, you could ask our events Team. You know, a year ago, they would say, there's no way we're getting 25,000. Well, I mean, I don't know if you saw last night. Today we broke that number. So.
- [34:26]
A
So what are our numbers? Give us a top line Overview.
- [34:29]
C
We're over 30,000 people.
- [34:31]
A
Wow.
- [34:31]
B
Yeah.
- [34:32]
C
80% of which this is their first Turning Point event ever.
- [34:35]
A
Wow.
- [34:36]
C
I know. Majority young women.
- [34:38]
A
That is huge. I want to start with that before we get into the nitty gritty of telling stories about Charlie and talking about your impact on all of this, too. 55% of the attendees here at Amfest, of which there's more than 30,000 people here, are young women, which you call the Erica effect.
- [34:53]
C
It's the Erica Kirk effect.
- [34:54]
A
What does that mean to you?
- [34:55]
C
Well, okay, this is actually the first time ever for America Fest and Sass that we've had more women than men. So traditionally, that has not been the case. But there's young women and women in general that have just flooded amfest for the first time ever. And I think that has to do with Erica, because Charlie reached young men at crazy numbers. I mean, you saw that in the exit polls in 2024. You saw MSNBC, literally went to college campuses and said, why did you register to vote? Oh, because I went to a Charlie Kirk event. Why did you vote? Oh, I saw the Charlie Kirk TikTok video. I mean, he was the. His third biggest TikTok account in media.
- [35:35]
A
Years, by the way. I just want to vindicate myself here. Years of me begging Charlie to get on TikTok, and he refused.
- [35:42]
C
I know.
- [35:43]
A
There's no way I'm ever gonna do that. The second that he did, you guys hit like 7 million followers overnight.
- [35:47]
C
I know. And then he was like, wait a minute. We could really use this thing to win the election.
- [35:52]
A
I'm telling you. I'm telling you.
- [35:54]
C
Yeah, you were ahead of the curve on that one.
- [35:57]
A
Radical. Crazy.
- [35:58]
C
You're the China plan. You're the TikTok China plan.
- [36:02]
A
But Charlie, did he completely transform culture of an entire generation of young men? And that's exactly what's needed now.
- [36:07]
C
And I didn't see Erica. I mean, we went to a football game. Elizabeth and I, my wife, we went to a football game with Erica. And we walk on the field, all the cheerleaders come over, all these young women. And that's kind of when it dawned upon me. I was like, wait a minute. Like, this is a thing like, young women really love Erica Kirk. And then I was like, let's see how this Plays out. Look at all these young women here right in front of us right now. It's amazing. And. But, I mean, 55%, we're breaking numbers, but it's also growing. So for other events that we've already opened up registration for, the numbers are insane for young women getting involved, but we're also registering voters. We're getting them involved. So here's to hoping that Erica Kirk can do what Charlie did and win over the young women like he won over the young men before.
- [36:52]
A
We think bigger than Amfest. Last night was our opening night. I was on an airplane watching a live stream of the.
- [36:58]
C
And a lot of drama.
- [36:59]
A
Caught some fireworks. Caught some fireworks. So what happened? Tell us what happened.
- [37:03]
C
Well, you can say a lot about Amfest. Can't say it isn't entertaining.
- [37:06]
A
Amen.
- [37:07]
C
Charlie was this coalition builder and this bridge builder. He was, you know, the glue that kind of held it all together. And you saw in his passing how important of a role he played in that, because as soon as he was murdered, I mean, every. Our entire movement, like, became. It was a civil war. Like, I don't even know. It was insane. It still is to an extent, but it's really cool to kind of see this coalition come back together. Like, we're pushing ideologies and we're arguing with each other, but we're doing it in the same place. And we're all still conservatives as we do it. But, I mean, last night was super entertaining. Russell Brand said it best. You never thought he would be Ben Shapiro. Russell Brand, Tucker Carlson. He said. What did he say about the Diddy party in Hollywood? If I ever found myself between Ben Shapiro and Doug Carlson, it must have been at a Diddy party. So I don't know how here we.
- [38:01]
A
Are at FS25 instead, but I love that. And that is so speaking to the heart of who Charlie was and what he really believed about the nature of conservatism, that we are not an ideological monolith. We do not enforce ideological authoritarianism the same way the left does. We encourage debate and discourse and argument, and the best ideas always rise to the top after we talk to each other. Right.
- [38:23]
C
Well, iron sharpens iron. So it's. You see, on the left, they kind of say, this is what we believe, and then everybody kind of gets behind it. And if you don't, you're a Tulsi Gabbard and you kind of just leave the party or an rfk. But on our side, this is. I think this is also why we traditionally don't do the best in midterms because we come together when we really need to, which is like during a presidential election. And then we're like, all right, let's get to infighting. Let's start fighting each other and finding the receipts from 20 years ago to try to blackmail you. Right.
- [38:56]
A
Screenshotting, every tweet, all of it. It's a lot.
- [38:59]
C
But you said this. How could you changed what?
- [39:03]
A
Shocking. People get their opinions on this, but.
- [39:05]
C
I mean, I think it makes us really strong as a movement, but we're figuring out on the right right now what direction we want to head in as a movement. And I think there's like this generational disconnect between old people and young people. Like the Gen Z stance on foreign policy isn't necessarily the stance of our parents.
- [39:26]
A
Yeah.
- [39:26]
C
And I mean, it's last night we saw Ben speak, and then the first question was a young kid asking about the USS Liberty. And so it's like young people kind of want their own version of foreign policy. And I don't think that's because they just hate foreign policy. I think that's just because they're sick of sending our money overseas.
- [39:46]
A
Back to today's fun conversation in just a second. But first, you guys know that I'm a huge advocate of all of us making informed decisions in our day to day life. And the exact same thing goes for making decisions about our healthcare. It is open enrollment season right now and insurance companies are betting that you'll just auto renew everything that you're already subscribed to without asking any questions. But you are smarter than that. You're listening to the Isabel Brown Show. If you are tired of overpriced premiums and really confusing fine print in your health insurance, there is a better way out there. Our friends at Crowd Health are a community where people fund each other's medical bills directly. There is no corporate middleman, no network, no nonsense required. You can stop playing the insurance game and take control of your health care in 2026 with our friends at Crowd Health, where you get healthcare coverage for under $100 a month. And that is not some bare bones plan with a million different exceptions every single time something goes wrong. That does include access to a dedicated team of health bill negotiators who fight on your behalf discounted prescriptions, which is so, so huge and important, and lab tests that actually save you money, and a vetted database of affordable, high quality doctors hand picked by Crowd Health's team all over the country. If something really major happens, you will only pay the first 500 of your bill. Then the crowd steps in to help fund the rest of your medical expenses. It's honestly what healthcare used to feel like way before everything got over complicated and way overwhelming by corporate middlemen. It is a real community of people who actually want to help each other with unexpected medical events. When things go wrong in our lives, you are not just another policy or a number in some faceless corporations database. You are a real person worthy of health. So far Crown Health members have saved over $40 million in health care expenses because they simply refuse to keep playing the same game and overpay for care from the insurance companies. This system is counting on you staying stuck in the same overpriced over complicated mess year after year after year. Do not give them the satisfaction. You guys know I'm hugely passionate about this topic because the night before I had a very, very major surgery in 2021, one of the this company shall not be named major insurance companies tried to call me the night before the night before and say that your major surgery that's incredibly important and something that you need for your body to function correctly isn't covered. It's an elected procedure. So we're trying to fight this system and take our power back. This open enrollment season, you can take your power back Join Crowd Health to get started today for 99 for your first three months using code isabel@joincrowdhealth.com that is joincrowdhealth.com with promo code isabel99 for your first three months. Crowd health for the record is not insurance. You can opt out of insurance. Take your power back. This is how we win @join join CrowdHealth.com you know, Charlie wrote a book a few years ago called the MAGA Doctrine, like Breaking down America first policies and what the effect of the Trump administration was the last time around. I truly think he probably would have written the Kirk Doctrine about all of these things at some point in time. And it's interesting watching Amfest happen all around us. We've been going to this since 2021, since it originally started, and it's bigger and better than ever before. But we're looking around at £8 million posters of Charlie of his greatest quotes. Everybody's talking about him on stage. The entire undertow of the message of this event is honoring his life and legacy. And I think for people like you and I, the last few months and this event is odd, it's a little unsettling because it's so easy to think about Charlie Kirk the giant Charlie Kirk the intellect, Charlie Kirk the author or the podcast host or the politician. But not very many people got to see Charlie Kirk behind the scenes. Charlie as the husband and the dad and the friend. Beyond you especially, you spent more time, arguably, with Charlie than Erica ever did, which is crazy.
- [43:40]
C
There are some weeks that we were away from our lives more all the time.
- [43:44]
A
So the last time I really spent a long, long time with you, we were backstage at one of Charlie's last events on this earth in Visalia, California. Can you walk us through what Charlie was going through the last few weeks of his life as Charlie the person, not just Charlie the.
- [43:58]
C
Yeah, I mean, I just talked about this earlier, but one of the last podcasts he did was that iced coffee hour one where he said, you know, what do you want to be known for? And he said, I want to be remembered for courage, for my faith. And, like, that's where Charlie was at in his life at that moment in time. Like, I just keep saying, he was always striving to learn more about the gospel because he loved God. Because he loved God. He wanted to understand God. So he would have debates with people. He would go deeper on plane rides. He'd be arguing with ChatGPT. And he had this. He wanted to debut this binder on this college campus, this tour. Specifically, he wanted to do this binder like Kayleigh McEnany used to have as press secretary, you know, with all the tabs and everything. And he wanted that. But then he also wanted a separate binder with just. Just Bible verses and specific Bible questions, because he got a few in the spring that he didn't know the correct answer on. He's like, that's not going to work for me. And so he really went super deep. And that's where he was having Frank Turek come to push him on the craziest, out of context Leviticus verses and Deuteronomy and random Torah questions. And then he also had Dr. Orr come out and all these experts in different fields because he wanted to make sure that when he was talking to a student that he was bringing them the entire truth, not a watered down one. And, I mean, Andrew pointed this out from our team. He was like, you know, it finally dawned upon me these were tent revivals like this. We were luring in young people to say, watch Charlie Kirk prove liberals wrong. But then they walked away hearing the gospel message from him, him oftentimes. But Charlie was always striving to be at the top of his faith, but he really died at, like, the peak. Like, literally the peak of his faith. We were texting about this. Like, I was kind of. I got really emotional thinking about it. Like, he was literally at the peak of his faith. And the. The plane ride to Utah, I literally remember was Blake and Dr. Turek and myself and Charlie. And on the flight, like, instead of going through, you know, typical questions you might get from a lib or whatever, he was just sort of talking about the gospel again. He's like, what if I get this question about slaves in Leviticus? Like, how do I reconcile that? How do I make sense of that? And he genuinely cared. And then in the car ride, as soon as he got to campus, and then when he got to campus, his first full question was talking about Christ and talking about the Bible, and it was a Mormon question. And he was going deep, though, on all these topics. And that was his first and last really full question that he got into. And so it's good for us to always strive to be at the pinnacle of our faith. But to die at the peak of your faith is something that all Christians, all of us, should strive to do, to become a martyr for the faith, to have a clip that says, I want to be remembered for courage for my faith. Yeah, we were arguing backstage in Visalia.
- [47:05]
A
Arguing is the funniest word, too, because if you knew Charlie personally, Charlie loved to, like, fake debate all of his friends. Even when we weren't interested in arguing back with him, he would kind of be arguing with himself and putting you in the crosshairs to play devil's advocate. And that's all he wanted to talk about for two plus hours. You were there sitting around this small table at one of his last speaking engagements, engagements on this earth. And he wanted to talk about Mary and church history and eschatology and the afterlife. And he brought all of that to his speech that night, too. I don't know if you heard this, but I was standing next to the event organizer backstage that night, and I leaned over and I said to her, surely in another life, Charlie Kirk was a pastor. And she laughed, and she said, maybe someday he still will be. And that was a week before he passed away. But watching this revival in the wake of all of that, I think has encouraged so many young people to ask tough questions, to realize that more than fighting for politics, more than fighting for the right guy to be in the Oval Office, which is very important, the biggest thing we need to be focusing on as a society is fixing our entire identity on Christ. What was life like walking through that with him watching him as a husband and a dad.
- [48:11]
C
Well, also, like, backstage, we're debating Catholicism and Protestantism. And. But, like, I was. I actually said this to Erica, like, the other day, Charlie pushed every boundary of his faith that he was asked not to push. Like, as a traditional Christian, like, oh, you're a prostitute. You cannot attend Mass. Like, oh, you're attending Mass. You can't also attend a Protestant church. What's wrong with you? And, like, he pushed every boundary. And again, it's because he loved God. So therefore, he wanted to understand God. And to understand God, he wanted to just go deep on every level.
- [48:45]
A
St. Augustine that famously said, the deeper your faith is, the more questions you have. And the more questions you have, the deeper your faith. You're always going down this curiosity journey.
- [48:55]
C
Yeah. And we actually got a question earlier. Someone was like, how do you. There's so many Christian factions. Like, how do you just work together? And, like, Charlie was the best representation of that that I could possibly think of.
- [49:07]
A
He. He.
- [49:08]
C
I mean, thinking about the tribulation and, like, the end times, people would always say, post trib, pre trib, what are you? He's like, I'm pan trib. It'll just pan out in the end.
- [49:16]
B
Amen.
- [49:16]
C
Like, I'm just gonna keep working here on Earth, and I want the Lord to find me. He literally used to say this. He would say, I want the Lord, when my time comes, to find me working in the purpose that he's called me to do.
- [49:29]
A
Wow.
- [49:31]
C
Like, he literally did that. Like, he did exactly what God called him to do. And it's so emotional because, like, you know, we're both young. Charlie found us when we were young. Charlie saw in us things that we didn't even see in ourselves. Saw in all the students here things we didn't even see in ourselves. Like, even when he was on a campus arguing with a lib, like, half the time his mic was on the table. Like, he wasn't arguing, like, way back in the day, that he would probably, like, get a quicker. But as he got older, he wanted. He, like, had this heart, this genuine heart for young people. And he would put the mic down, he would just listen, and if the crowd booed them, he'd say, guys, please give them the respect that sometimes the left doesn't always give us. Let's calm down. Let him speak. Like, he cared. He cared about young people up until the point where, like, he literally died doing what he loved, like, throwing out hats, like, taking pictures with the young people, telling them about Jesus Telling them about how great their country really is. And it's like, I was. The intro video last night encompassed that entirely. Like, it was. It was him. Demand the welfare of the state that you are in. It's in. What is that? Jeremiah 12? I can't think of it. But, I mean, it's just like, he loved this country and he loved God, and he wanted to see this country love God, but he specifically wanted to see young people. It's just beautiful. He literally died doing exactly what God called him to do.
- [51:03]
A
I haven't gotten a chance to ask you this yet in depth. We've had a lot of shallow, very surface, level conversations because we've been running around very, very crazily the last few months, as all of us who knew Charlie have been. Tell me about that day. What was that like for you? You were standing right now next to Charlie.
- [51:21]
C
Yeah, I. Yeah, I remember. I actually went to go pick him up, and in the morning, we got in the car, we were headed to the airport, and he was, like, so excited. I remember he was. He was literally so excited. This was the first campus stop. These were, like, his college playoff games, if you will. Like, he just got so excited. And he was asking if there was energy on the ground already, and he was asking what walkout music he was gonna have and how many hats we had to throw out for students.
- [51:57]
A
Things that nobody ever thinks about. Right?
- [51:59]
C
But, yeah, only Charlie Kirk thinks about this. And then we. We flew there. The entire time, he was talking about the gospel and Christianity. We landed in Utah. We went to an event beforehand that he was doing for his cousin, and that was the last full interview that he did with somebody. We got in the car and we went straight to campus. And we got there, he took pictures with our volunteers. He went up, use the restroom. He had his clock out, timed out perfectly. And then we went to the tent, and it was like, just a normal, regular day. It was just like, I still, like, truthfully, I still have not fully, like, processed everything. It's something that I never thought would happen. Like, I literally. It's just you. It was beyond reason. Of course that would never happen. Like, you've been with him six years. Like, you know him, and, like, you never thought that would happen. Like, we're fine, and obviously everything happened. Yeah, it was. Yeah. I won't go into too much detail other than there's a lot of shock and trauma. Things I still, like, don't even remember entirely, if I'm being honest. Like, there's about 30 seconds where I kind of still piece together in my mind.
- [53:27]
A
Mind, of course. I mean, shock is the best word possible. I think everyone was in shock, particularly those of you. There are boots on the ground on campus with Charlie. But none of us ever believed that something like this was even possible. I mean, we certainly knew that there was an increased threat and an increased level of violence in our society. In the last few years, some of that had been boiling over in the background. But Charlie loved opposition, right? His favorite thing at any event, Visalia, California, a week before. He's like, are there protesters out there? Let's go out there, let's talk to him. And security said, no, no, no, don't do it. But he loved this stuff. He loved engaging with people, boiling down who they were as a human person instead of just the loud opposition that you had with a difference of opinion. And I know collectively, I mean, I think the world will never be the same. Certainly for our generation, this feels like a 911 style event that is fundamentally reshaping culture, which is hard for people like you and I to wrap our heads around, because to us, Charlie is just Charlie. Right? It's not a globally defining event or something that changes humanity forever. You found yourself being Charlie's chief of staff and his right hand man with everything that he ever did kind of thrust into a spotlight a little bit in the last few weeks. In particular, in the wake of all of this. What does that experience been like?
- [54:46]
C
I actually wouldn't even characterize it as necessarily fun or anything that I would ever actually even want. I used to, people used to ask me like all the time, you know, what's your five, ten year plan with Charlie? How long are you going to work with him? What are you planning to do? And I never truly, like knew how to answer that because it was more of like a spiritual calling as to why I was there. I used to say, I'm called to serve Charlie, and until the Lord calls me to do otherwise, like I'm gonna be here in whatever, literally whatever capacity that is, like in the same way that I see my wife at the dinner table and I'll ask her, how can I serve you better? And she'll ask me the same question. Something we do in our marriage, something Charlie and Erica have done in their marriage. My parents taught me and I took that same mindset with Charlie, like, how can I serve you better? And this has been specifically these past, like three months, the hardest to kind of cope with is I feel like. I feel like I kind of lost, like I was Jonathan and he was David. And I kind of lost that armor bearer mentality that I had, but I do feel a little lost. But I also, at the same time feel comfortable. Call to get Charlie the same Erica Kirk, the same footholding that Charlie had, and especially as she gets set as this next CEO. But it's really interesting early on. It's hard to articulate really, but we're all trying to just do the best we can. And we don't even know what specifically that is at this time, but we, we have the blueprint. Like, we have exactly what Charlie wanted us to do, like America Fest and YWLS and all these things. And so we're continuing to do it. And Erica says this all the time. She's like, Charlie poured his heart, soul, life, mission, everything he had, he poured into Turning Point usa. So, like, the more we work here, the more we're invested in this, the closer we feel to him, if that makes sense.
- [56:53]
A
Yeah.
- [56:53]
C
You know, because we've done this with him for so long and so we're still with him by doing this.
- [56:58]
A
You're still serving him.
- [56:59]
C
Yeah, exactly.
- [57:00]
A
In a different capacity with that blueprint. Can you share with us a little bit about what Charlie's vision for post 2025America looked like?
- [57:09]
C
Yeah, Well, I mean, we talked earlier about how in 2022 he did this three year plan, and as he, like, grew in stature and grew in accountability and grew and the man he was, it actually graduated beyond three years. It was like a more of like a five, ten year plan. But literally he had all these special projects he was setting up, especially these past 12 months, where everything was geared specifically towards 2028, especially the midterms too. Like, Charlie on election night, there's that moment where he kind of cries and, like, pulls his hat down. Erica comes around and holds him and hugs him. And as soon as it was announced that President Trump had won, he grabs his phone and he texts his data guy. It was like 10 or 11 minutes to the dot right after and goes, let's start talking about midterm plan in 2020. Like, everything. And so, like, we still do have these blueprints, but. But he was like this visionary that set these crazy goals that we never thought we could attain. And we still feel that pressure from him. We feel it all the time. We feel it here at America Fest. We felt it when we were planning his memorial. Like, we said, where should we do this? And originally we were gonna do it at the Desert Diamond Arena. It was Erica who was like, no, we need to do it at the Cardinals stadium. Trust me. We're like, no, we don't. Is that many? Are that many people gonna show up? And she's like, no, we were going to need both arenas. And so she's really stepped into that visionary role in many aspects. But also the notebooks that Charlie left behind, she calls it her blueprints. He literally, he always had a notebook with him and he was always writing in it on long flights, wherever he was. Like, if he was here right now and you said something he liked, you'd open his notebook and write a little note and star it. And she still has all of those.
- [59:01]
A
Wow.
- [59:02]
C
And she shared. A couple weeks ago, he had this checklist. It was a 13 point checklist. And it was like when the youth vote in a majority of states, like, all these things. And he had checked off each box. But the 13th point, it said America's turning point. And the box was left unchecked. And Erica was like, this is crazy. And we're like, it's almost like he left that box unchecked because he couldn't check it. Because he was America's turning point. Like, in his death, you've seen astronomical numbers of revival, of people getting involved, of people coming to America Fest for the first time. Like, it's insane. The amount of high school chapters we've started, college chapters, we've started, student inquiries to start a chapter. Like, we're starting 50 new chapters a day.
- [59:50]
A
That's insane.
- [59:51]
C
Like, we were on pace, we would never be on pace to do that. And it's almost like Charlie from heaven and it's just like, keeps pushing all these. He's keeping the pressure on, you know, that leadership pressure we talked about.
- [60:02]
A
You have gotten to spend a very, very significant amount of time up close with Turning Point, USA's new CEO and the love of Charlie's life, Erica. What does the world not know about Erica Kirk? And what do you love the most about her?
- [60:15]
C
Yeah, she's. She's really detailed and dedicated. Like, you know, Charlie. Okay, so Charlie would do, like, if he had a meeting, he'd keep it like six minutes, you know, 10 minutes tops. And then he'd be like, all right, all right, let's move on, let's move on. And he was always fast paced. His schedule was like down to the minute. It would end at like 5:24pm on the dot. And then his next thing was.
- [60:39]
A
People don't know this, but you can corroborate this. I've said this for a few times. Charlie A few years ago, did a sleep study to figure out the best optimal times that he could sleep to like maximize rest for the least amount of hours. And it was at like PM this man was working 24 hours a day.
- [60:56]
C
I mean, and then he had this conversation with Elon about these like nap pods that he has that like, have this ambient noise and everything that perfects your sleep so that you get the max amount of REM hours. Like, he wanted to maximize everything. And that's why I say, like, at 31 years of age, like, Charlie lived literally more life than people do at 100 because he wasted no time. Like Gen Z, we're set to spend 15% of our life doom scrolling on social media and Instagram and TikTok. And he didn't even. He refused to have it on his phone. He was like, no. Every waking hour I will spend dedicated to exactly what God needs me to do. And Erica is very similar, but where he would do like a six minute meeting, she would do like a 30 to 45. And she would be very detailed and want to know. I mean, she walked this hall six. Yeah, I think six times. She did a walkthrough and there's certain things she's like, oh, that, that's bubbling up there, the wrap on the wall. Or, you know, we have to make sure there's more lights over here. Let's make sure their booth is perfect. Very detailed. And Charlie had this tradition where the night before Amfest, he would come out and he would watch the intro video that was just this epic intro video. And he'd watch it in what he considered the best seat in the house. And then he would, after he watched it, he would go to what he considered the worst seat in the house and he would play it all over again because he wanted to make sure even the person who was sitting in the worst seat in the house, you still had the Amfest experience, is what he called it. So Eric could continue that tradition the night before opening. And she, she went all over and made sure the sound is perfect for everyone. And she's very detailed. She's very detailed and dedicated. But truthfully, I have no idea how she's doing it. Like, even I'm exhausted. And she is. She's a huge testament to like this amazing wife that Charlie picked that. Honestly, young men and young women strive to be a Charlie and an Erica because that's quite the relationship. It's awesome.
- [62:53]
A
Yeah. My husband and I have had so many powerful conversations. And I'm sure you and your wife have, have as well. In the last three months, about. Okay, do we need to literally sit down at the end of every day and say, how can I serve you better? What does it mean to literally write a love note to your spouse every single week? You take these things for granted, but it's been a really big wake up call, I think, to so many families like ours that only exists because of Charlie, that we're never guaranteed 60 years of marriage. We're never guaranteed a lifetime together. So how can we pack that together?
- [63:21]
C
And getting married, Charlie would say, get married yet have more children than you can afford. Live out the best chance you can at the American dream, even if the world tries to stop you from doing that. Like young people in particular, the world tries, is currently trying to stop us from doing that. Like, oh, you can't afford kids, you will never be able to afford a house.
- [63:41]
A
It'll ruin your life.
- [63:42]
C
It'll ruin your life. Your college debt, put off kids. Young women are like, I'm gonna pursue my career until I'm 38 and then I'll get married. And young men are saying, I don't want to date any. I don't want to marry anybody. I just want to date, date, date, date, date, date, date, and then figure out what I want in my life. And Charlie was the opposite. He brought the hard message, the inconvenient message, the message that you oftentimes don't even want to listen to because it requires action on your part. And he brought that. And young people wanted the challenge and they still want the challenge. Look how many are here. They want this, this, they're seeking this. And it's not easy. It's the path less traveled. It's so easy to vote for Zoran Mamdani, who's going to promise that all your problems will be solved than it is to actually go and fight to change those problems. Zoran, in a way, around the same age as Charlie, was this leftist crazy socialist maniac that is. Is kind of the same version of Charlie, but on the complete opposite side of the spectrum. And he's promising solutions through the government that are totally unattainable. And Charlie's promising solutions that require hard work and grit. Zoran does a few campaign events and then that's it for him for the day. Charlie will go to college campuses, build an organization, work with the. He was the most talented fundraiser raiser in the world. He would do the most amount of media that he could. He would host a three hour radio show every single day. He did everything that was the most difficult and demanded the most of him sometimes being away from his kids and his wife.
- [65:17]
A
Yeah.
- [65:17]
C
To give to the younger generation what the government could not.
- [65:22]
A
That transition of heart, yourself, self discipline and self governance. I love that. Zoran Mamdani as the anti Charlie Kirk. I'm going to use that in the future, Mikey. You might. You mentioned something at the beginning of this conversation that I want to close out with today about this need for unity in the movement and how Charlie was the glue. Charlie held people together to a level that we haven't really contemplated or understood until now, several months out from his death and navigating what that means for the conservative movement. I worked for many years for Turning Point USA Now. I host this show with the Daily Wire. I do work with a whole different number of organizations in the movement. But how can we accomplish that in the wake of Charlie's murder and assassination? How can we link arms together to pick up that proverbial microphone together? Not in an attempt ever to overcome what Charlie ever left behind for us in his legacy or try to replace him somehow, but to honor him and honor his legacy?
- [66:18]
C
Yeah, I mean, our entire movement is rooted in truth. So you have to think, like we used to say, like, the left is against common sense. So it's like, men can't be women don't kill babies. Simple things that you think are common sense. And so the right kind of transcends that because it's just ultimate truth. It's simple truths. But as we've progressed as a movement, we've gone really deep in the truth. And when you go deep, it requires a lot of infighting and debates. And in a world of social media where it's easier to just kind of fire off a tweet instead of talking to the person face to face, we've lost this civil dialogue that the conservative movement literally needs in order to move forward. And so Charlie was this coalition builder. Like he knew all of these people. If there was a problem, he would connect them. If there was a problem, he would reach out to them. He was always on his phone. He was always reaching out to people. He was always talking to people. And in his absence, we saw civil war break out on the ride. Infighting in the conservative movement. But all it requires is kind of what you saw last night, like Ben Shapiro going on stage and being a little aggressive, and Russell Brand going on stage and being a little aggressive and funny, and Tucker going on stage being a little aggressive. And then afterwards, maybe you guys meet up and say, all right, let's hash this out privately. But we've lost the in person discussion and I think social media to a capacity has kind of, kind of ruined our movement when it comes to civil dialogue. Just being honest.
- [67:49]
A
Last question for you, and it's a good one. What are you going to miss the most about your friend Charlie?
- [67:55]
C
Yeah, consistency. Charlie was. He was just the. He was the most consistent person. I just, like, the hardest part is, like, picking up your phone and going to text him about something, knowing he would solve the problem for you and then having all these problems here that you now have to solve without him. It's like I. That's the thing that I'm gonna honestly miss the most. Like, he was so consistent and he was so loyal. Like when you gave everything to be a part of the movement and to be a part of his team. Like, he was sometimes loyal to, like, his own demise. Like, he, he literally was the most loyal person you have ever met. Like, if you attacked his friends, like, nothing would stop Charlie from defending him. And that's something I really miss about him. Times I wish I could just call him and have him solve a problem for me.
- [68:49]
A
Me too. I miss those days.
- [68:50]
C
He was also hilarious.
- [68:51]
A
He was hilarious to a level that the general public has no idea. Charlie was hilarious.
- [68:56]
C
He was so funny.
- [68:57]
A
I'll miss laughing with him. And I so grateful to know that there are people here at TPUSA working with the Charlie Kirk show and who just knew him so, so beautifully getting to share that with the world like you. Mikey, thank you so much for your voice, for your continued yes to serve Charlie and the Kirk family and your continued pursuit of the truth in this conservative movement.
- [69:17]
C
Thank you.
- [69:18]
A
That's it for the show today. Hope you guys loved our conversations with Andrew and Mikey. Don't forget to smash that Follow or subscribe button wherever you are watching to make sure you can continue supporting all of our content. We have some fun, fun, fun Instagram content coming to you tomorrow for New Year's Eve and telling you exactly where I'm traveling with my family this week, which is very fun. But in the meantime, just want to say a profound, heartfelt thank you to all of you for your support this incredible crazy whirlwind of a year that was 2025. It's been the craziest but best year of my life. And I cannot wait to continue growing our family together, going into the insanity that I'm sure is about to ensue in 2026. Thanks for being a part of our Isabel Brown show. Family. Merry Christmas still, because it's still Christmas. And happy almost New Year to you all. You know what they say. Early bird gets the ultimate vacation home. Book early and save over $5 on a week long stay with VRBO because early gets you closer to the action, whether it's waves lapping at the shore or snoozing in a hammock that overlooks, well, whatever you want it to so you can all enjoy the payoff come summer with VRBO's early booking deals. Rise and shine. Average savings $550 select homes only. Minimum seven day stay required.