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- [00:00]
Dr. Kevin Roberts
Our point with Project 2025 was not to mimic that, but to mimic the coordination that politically the left has done. And so the left looked at that and said, oh my gosh, they're learning how to do this. That's the kind of thing that scares the left, because what are those recommendations aim at? The source of their power, the American administrative.
- [00:32]
Isabel Brown
I keep hearing out there on the Internet, in the two dimensional cybersphere world of a conservative civil war. And there's a lot of people who are feeling incredibly uneasy about the trajectory of the conservative movement, what it even means to be a conservative moving forward, how we take these values that we've been fighting for for generations and continue applying them to, to the next generation and the next generation thereafter, how we win elections and so much more. It feels to me like there is this deep sense of angst about what do we do now with every passing minute, especially in the world of politics. I am here in Washington D.C. and so I regularly am finding myself having to translate from the, in the DMV crowd, the insider DC thing to real Americans and vice versa, and consider myself incredibly lucky and privileged that I, I am often asked to represent the voice of real people who are out there that I interact with every day here in Washington D.C. but in D.C. there's been one organization leading the charge on behalf of real conservatives across the country for decades, the Heritage foundation, which you may or may not be familiar with. I'm sure if you are familiar with them, you probably recognize the name from a super controversial project that went incredibly viral in the last election cycle called Project 2025.
- [01:57]
Dr. Kevin Roberts
Project 2025 will destroy America.
- [02:00]
Isabel Brown
Look it up. Which was indeed my Instagram caption announcing that I was pregnant at the very beginning of 2025. Your girl just thinks of some really creative things every once in a while. Project 2025 was a blueprint essentially written by the Heritage foundation for what it looks like for conservatives to govern on offense. And if they retook the White House, the House of Representatives, the Senate and state legislatures and governor positions across the country. It was the roadmap for a new American dream for the next generation. And the media freaked out. People are freaking out all over again about Heritage foundation, like every five minutes because they have interesting ideas for what it means to implement conservative policies. But to unpack this idea of the conservative civil war, the future of the right, what it means now that we have lost Charlie Kirk. To continue capturing the attention of young people, Project 2026 or beyond, and so much more, I headed over to Heritage foundation just a few days ago to sit down with my friend Dr. Kevin Roberts, who heads up the entire organization, to talk about all of it. So without further ado, please join me in checking it out. Kevin Roberts, I am so excited to have you today on the Isabel Brown Show. We are here at the Heritage foundation at your beautiful studio, which I love coming back to every single time. Tell us a little bit for those who might not know, because we do have a very young audience. What is the Heritage foundation and why are we here in dc?
- [03:33]
Dr. Kevin Roberts
Happy to let me first say, as a very gracious host, that it is awesome to be sitting here with you so genuinely. Thank you.
- [03:39]
Isabel Brown
Thank you.
- [03:40]
Dr. Kevin Roberts
Probably older than someone in your audience, but that's okay because I have some kids who are in your audience and they're grateful that I'm having this conversation with you. Heritage, for people who may not know and it's okay that they wouldn't know, is generally what people call a think tank, but that's a phrase that I don't use. Not because we don't think here, not because my colleagues aren't the smartest policy scholars in the world, and I genuinely believe that, but because that's the first step of what we do. And so we are a right of center public policy organization that doesn't just identify problems and propose policy Solutions. But for 52 years, we've actually advocated for those solutions in Congress and increasingly in state capitals. We're also very involved in the international scene. And while we don't do the policy advocacy overseas the way we do here, because of our own federal law, we do suggest ideas, we do suggest directions. And one of the things to sum up here, Isabelle, that we're known for both domestically and internationally, is explaining what the aspirational vision for conservatism is. That is our passion. We're known in, in this town and around the world for adding and multiplying. We will work with anybody, anytime, anywhere, on any issue on which there's. There's agreement. Obviously, there are differences of opinion even in our own movement, but Heritage is ethos. I think this is really important for younger Americans is to talk about what we're for and therefore what we need to go spend some resources fighting for.
- [05:08]
Isabel Brown
Hugely important, especially because I've often felt in the last 10 years, especially as a young, like boots on the ground, front lines conservative, we're really, really good at fighting against the left. We are exceptionally skilled at pointing out all the crazy and reacting to it and manufacturing some outrage. I've participated in that myself. But I also often feel discouraged because sometimes it feels like we lack the clarity for how to go on offense and write that blueprint for what it means to really conserve something and govern appropriately when we have the levers of power. I think that's a perfect place to start with you today, because most people may have heard of the Heritage foundation in our generation, the last few, because of the dreaded Project 2025. Fun story for you. I actually made that my Instagram caption for my first Instagram post of 2025, when my husband and I announced we were having a baby and people's heads exploded. Vanity Fair quoted it in some hit piece about how that's really Project 2025. They want all these women to have babies. To which my answer was, yes, of course, that's such a beautiful thing. But Project 2025 was so unique because it was this long term vision of, of what it looks like to actually govern on conservative principles. The left didn't like that so much. What was that reaction about?
- [06:19]
Dr. Kevin Roberts
That reaction was about taking a page from their playbook. The left has, at least in my entire career, if not lifetime, always been more organized than the political right. You know, on the right, we share a lot of principles, starting with the belief in an enduring moral order. But we're also independently minded people. It is harder for us than it is for our friends or non friends on the left to work in real extensive coalitions, almost to the point of having groupthink. Our point with Project 2025 was not to mimic that, but to mimic the coordination that politically the left has done. And so Project 2025, what we also call mandate for leadership here every four years, is merely a policy playbook for when there are people in power who want to implement conservative policies. We've only been doing this since 1980. But what made it really dangerous for the left, from their perspective in 2024 to the heart of your question is that we had never done it on that scale. So rather than just do it ourselves as Heritage, we thought we've got a real opportunity to add and multiply, to work with movement groups across the country, not just in Washington. And we had 110 conservative organizations participate in it. The left looked at that and said, oh my gosh, they're learning how to do this. And as we sit here, while obviously President Trump and the Vice President, the administration, deserve 100% of the credit we for what I'm about to say, there's something like 1900 recommendations in Project 2025 the administration has implemented something like 800 of them.
- [07:49]
Isabel Brown
Wow.
- [07:49]
Dr. Kevin Roberts
And that's the kind of thing that scares the left, because what are those recommendations aim at? The source of their power, the American administrative state. We ought to be so excited. We have an administration willing to take the political risk, to have the political courage to go do that work on behalf of the American people.
- [08:05]
Isabel Brown
People. All within a first year. Really?
- [08:07]
Dr. Kevin Roberts
Yeah.
- [08:07]
Isabel Brown
We still have so much ahead of us, which is very exciting. So maybe that 1900 number will get hit. For those that heard a lot about Project 2025, typically I found throughout speaking across the country and being on college campuses or interacting with people in comment sections, none of what they heard was actually true because the left did what they do best, which is fear monger, and spread a whole lot of propaganda. Instead of really explaining to people what these policy recommendations were as we're watching them unfold. Can you share just a couple of your favorite ones that maybe already have been implemented?
- [08:36]
Dr. Kevin Roberts
Look, I'm a. I'm a lifelong educator, fifth generation teacher in my family, and I've had the privilege of starting a K12 private school in Louisiana, running a small college of faith in Wyoming. And for me, the Department of Education was always in the way. And not, I'm not talking about educators themselves, I'm talking about the bureaucrats who think it's much more important for a federal department, in this case the Education Department, to exist than. Than it is to properly fund student education. And so the beginning of the elimination of the Department of Education is not just my favorite at Heritage, it is our favorite at Heritage because we've been talking about it. Think about this, Isabel. We've been talking about eliminating the department since literally the day it was created, 1979. So there's still some more work to do, including congressional action. And I believe that that will happen at some point. But kudos, I mean, truly to President Trump for seeing this, to the education secretary, Linda McMahon, not just for her courage, but her ability to explain why eliminating the Department of Education actually benefits education. My second favorite is the elimination of something else, and that's usaid, something that you might say in its early days had really good intentions of spreading American values around the world, but in fact became a cudgel used with American tax money. It's a cudgel used against right minded people around the world under the guise of American friendliness. And so the only way to go about fixing that was to eliminate it, tear it out root and branch. This is the first time in the history of the conservative movement that we have the entire elimination of departments or agencies that stand in the way of self governance. And to your point that we're just 13 months into this administration, I happen to think the good guys will be in power for a long time. We need to be dreaming big about the opportunity over the next decade to eliminate the administrative state. Not because some think tank president says it, but because we as the American people want our country back.
- [10:36]
Isabel Brown
We're well on our way and go back to our foundations of a country by the people, of the people, for the people, not the state. My dad is so passionate about this and we get into the greatest conversations of if you were president for the day. And I think we really are watching that unfold right now under the Trump administration. But it's undoubtable that we are going to be living in a very different country post Donald Trump. And as you're watching this first administration become well underway and people start looking ahead to 2028, I think we lack some consensus and a blueprint of what the leadership of the right is going to look like in 2028 and beyond. We have some amazing voices and some amazing leaders already there. But to this larger conservative movement perspective, we don't have Charlie Kirk anymore, who undoubtedly I believe was the leader of the conservative movement at large and influenced things powerfully. You're watching a bit of fragmentation happening on the political right. Although I've experienced some of that, I know not, not quite as dramatic because I think people often like to claim
- [11:31]
Dr. Kevin Roberts
that it is true too.
- [11:32]
Isabel Brown
It is, it is out there. And we won't have Donald Trump to run for president in 2028. What does our blueprint need to look like to dream big for 2028 and beyond?
- [11:41]
Dr. Kevin Roberts
Look, color me biased. I have the privilege of being the president of Heritage, which I think is the largest conservative policy organization in the world. We don't exist to be the largest, but we've been able to do that because we have smart colleagues, but also because we're supported not by three or four really big donors, but by 500,000 individual Americans who are members, which means we might work in Washington, Isabelle, but we're not of Washington. And so when we're thinking about the answer to your question about the aspirational vision for the future, we're looking at it through the lens of the everyday American who frankly feels forgotten by Washington. They frankly feel forgotten even by their state legislature. They certainly feel forgotten by the self appointed elites in Brussels. And so our answers answer is rest on four cornerstones and we're calling them cornerstones for a reason. We believe that these are the cornerstones for the golden age that we have embarked on. The first is the American family. If we don't revitalize the most important social, economic, cultural, political institution in the history of humankind, the American family, this republic is done. And I can be that candid, that blunt, about what will happen if we don't revitalize it, because I think we're going to be successful in revitalizing it. The second thing is, as, as we talk about in our cornerstone project, is we have to revitalize the understanding that in work there is dignity. And that is as important as another good, which is part of this cornerstone, which is free enterprise. And so, in other words, we believe that if you want to revitalize free enterprise, I mean true free enterprise, not the crony corporatism that besets places like New York, but the small businessman or small businesswoman who just also feels forgotten by overregulation. The way we're going to do that is to remind, frankly, all Americans of all generations that the reason that you want to have material success is because of the benefit that work gives our souls. At Heritage, we're non sectarian, but we're also unabashedly in favor of people expressing their religious beliefs publicly. And it is about our soul. The third is we also have to have a revitalization of national security. And we've seen that particularly under the Trump second term, not just with some of the more famous episodes like the missile strike on Iran or what's going on in Venezuela, but just the reset internationally that especially for our European supposed allies. If in fact you want the United States to help you out, you darn well better pull your weight first, because in essence, in Europe, you've built this huge welfare state on the backs of the American taxpayer. We've been defending you. The fourth, and a lot of ways after the one on the family. This is my favorite as an early American historian. What does it mean to be an American? What is citizenship? And by that, not just the legal requirements, but for us, the social and cultural requirements of assimilation. Cultural assimilation into the greatest republic in the history of man. We believe, with 90% of our policy work falling into one of those four categories, that that aspirational vision can also be a political blueprint that candidates of any political party could use because the American people support them.
- [14:49]
Isabel Brown
Back to our interview in just a second. But first, quick pause. Because if you are still thinking about how you want to approach the rest of Lent that kicked off on Wednesday this week for this year. This is for you right now. You can join Jonathan Roumie, Mark Wahlberg, Father Mike Schmitz, Chris Pratt and so many others for daily prayer leading up to Easter on my favorite the Hallow app. Lent is meant to stretch us. It's a season where we can really ask, who is God calling me to be? That means deeper prayer, fasting, of course, on Fridays. Don't forget Fish Friday tonight, and generosity so that our hearts can be filled with the true love of God. That's why Hallow's annual Lent challenge Pray 40 the Return is so powerful. It's a 40 day journey to slow down, to reflect, and to come home to what matters the most. At the heart of this challenge this year is one of the most powerful stories ever told, the Parable of the Prodigal Son. It's a story about leaving home and losing your way and realizing that no matter how far you've gone, you are always welcome back throughout Lent. Jonathan Roumie, who plays Jesus in the Chosen, and Sister Miriam James will guide you through beautiful daily prayers and meditations. Then every Friday like today, we will be challenged to fast alongside others in the Hallow community. On Saturdays, we'll be watching powerful faith conversation stories, and every Sunday we will hear transformational homilies from the goat himself, Father Mike Schmitz. Because during Lent, we're not asked to do everything perfectly or to radically change our lives all at once. We're just asked to take one small step at a time. And in doing that, we discover that God's grace meets us exactly where we are and gives us the strength to keep going. The Challenge began a few days ago on Ash Wednesday, but it's not too late to join. It continues through Easter eggs. So you can take your first small step in changing your life throughout Lent Today, if you are ready to lay down those heavy things in your life and start coming home to God, our loving, forgiving father. By joining Hallow's annual Lent challenge Pray 40 the Return, you can get 90 days free on the platform for Pray 40 or any of the other thousands of prayers, meditations, podcast episodes and more@halloween.com Isabel I want to zoom in on the international side of things for a minute because certainly Gen Z is honed in on foreign policy as one of their topics, priorities moving forward. And you're seeing a lot of interesting debate unfold about that, but I think is really rooted in a shared frustration generationally that quite often our tax dollars, our politicians Attention and our national service is often going towards other countries rather than what's happening right here at home. I think J.D. vance strikes a really powerful balance between our obligation to act as a world superpower, culturally and otherwise, but also really primarily be focusing on what's here at home. Because without doing that, we can never pretend to be a superpower everywhere else. Can you articulate a little bit what's going on in the movement, how Heritage is seeing that, and what the right step is moving forward?
- [17:34]
Dr. Kevin Roberts
Sure. I'll mention two things. One, a specific episode and then a sort of broader maybe forecast about the future, which is optimistic on this point for us at Heritage. Certainly for me personally, the flashpoint in recognizing that the old capital R Republican thinking toward international policy was not just outdated but wrong headed anymore, was the Ukraine military aid bill. Heritage surprised K Street lobbyists, some of the establishment Republican senators back in 2022 when we opposed that military aid bill. And of course there was, I guess the first paid campaign against us for being an institution of the people because we were supposed to salute and say, you can write a blank check to Ukraine. And people in that campaign said that Heritage's opposition to the way Congress was going about funding it was tantamount to wanting Russia to win and to being quote, unquote, Putin stooges. I confront this head on because that's the inauthenticity that drives your generation crazy. It happens to drive mine crazy too. Yeah, trust me, we've experienced this. All of that to say, what did Heritage do? We doubled down and said not only is this military aid bill wrong and we opposed it every single time. And I think we had a role in increasing the, the no votes on that every time that it came up, such that a majority of Republicans in this town now are opposed to it. We want Ukraine to win, but we want the Europeans to pull their weight. We doubled down by saying, let's reset conservative international policy to begin with. And one of the people that we were talking to at the time, which this was this then little known Republican Senator J.D. vance. And he and increasingly new members of the Senate like Eric Schmidt, Senator Rubio was really vital in this question, came around and said, we can be strong, we can fund our military such that it is the most lethal, the best military in the history of the world, but it ought to be sparingly used and the American people's tax money ought not go all into all of these neoconservative intervention adventures, all of that to lead to this point. The second point about the future. We've prevailed on that. We, the American people have prevailed on that. And the irony of all this is if we had kept going down this path that some of the long serving Republican senators wanted, we would be continuing to spend money on munitions programs that were for Whiting fighting wars in the 1980s and 90s. Now we get to spend money on like the warfare systems that we will need in a confrontation with China. But in peace through strength is a desire to have peace first. And if you put the American people first, which is the first obligation we have in international policy, then there should be very, very few wars because America's economic strength, its cultural strength, just the strength of the bully pulpit. With a president like Donald Trump, with a vice president like Vance, like a Secretary of State like Rubio, just that alone has reminded the world who the boss is. And we haven't had to put any American servicemen or servicewomen in danger. I think it is a vastly underrated achievement of Trump, not just in his second term, but as his legacy as an American president and resetting all of that. We were happy to play a tiny
- [20:55]
Isabel Brown
part before we started recording. I was sharing with you a story about my last time on set at cnn. And the time before that, interestingly enough, was all about President Trump not being a candidate for the Nobel Peace Prize. And I was saying how much of a shame that was because Trul, that will be his legacy as the peace president. CNN didn't like to hear that very well.
- [21:13]
Dr. Kevin Roberts
I want to know part of that.
- [21:14]
Isabel Brown
I absolutely agree. The strength that this administration is portraying to the world is offering an opportunity for peace unlike anything we've ever seen. So understanding where that frustration is coming from with Gen Z, I think is really important for this administration because they're looking at the needs and desires of this next generation and attempting to govern on behalf of the people and not on behalf of those who are here in Washington. But that's not where young people's frustrations are lying with the right. And a few weeks ago I was asked by the media where some of this pendulum swing back and forth of the approval rating for President Trump was coming from with young men in particular, because as we know, young men under 35 arguably delivered the victory for President Trump last November. And it was right around the time of some interesting headlines coming out about some of these more culturally oriented subjects that we're dealing with in America today, with gay marriage and abortion and birth control pills and all of this. And I told the media in this print interview view that Young people are frustrated not because they're backing off of conservatism or America first ideas, MAGA ideas, but because they don't think people in Washington are being conservative enough. And I was laughed at. I don't think they ended up printing that. But I'm, I am seeing that with regard to abortion, with regard to protection of the family, with regard to religious liberty, and making sure we understand we were intentionally created to be a Christian nation. What is Heritage seeing on that front? And how can we appropriately start being unafraid to govern on offense on these cultural issues that our country is depending on?
- [22:39]
Dr. Kevin Roberts
Well, first, Isabelle, Heritage agrees with you, your diagnosis 100%, that the, the reason for those, those pendulum swings, especially among young men in terms of the President's approval rating, is because Washington still succeeds enough that like establishment, Washington still succeeds frequently enough to block his agenda.
- [22:58]
Isabel Brown
Yep.
- [22:58]
Dr. Kevin Roberts
And, and we could cite a whole lot of examples. You cited some. I would add to that the desire by the conservative base, but especially young men under the age of 35, to be even stricter, even more accelerated regarding interior enforcement of our immigration laws. Standing in the way of that are two things. The first is the plethora of sanctuary cities, counties and states. These are blue counties and states. But the second part is really vital to understand how establishment Washington is part of this. A handful, it's not a majority, a handful of Republican senators and House members who make common cause with those sanctuary cities not because in their heart of hearts they would do that themselves. I'm not making that accusation, but because they lack the political courage to say, I'm going to take this hard vote to give the administration what it needs to do this interior enforcement, to fund it properly, to take the slings and arrows that come from the nonsense media outlets and, and do the people's business. The good news is, even though we are frustrated, as you are, with the lack of progress because of the Washington establishment blocking the administration, we believe that eventually that we're going to break through and we will see success there. It's just that we have so much to fix. That's the urgency that Gen Z is feeling and it's very legitimate.
- [24:19]
Isabel Brown
Yeah, we do. It's a hard life to have to actually govern. It's easy when you get to point the finger and blame everybody else for how bad it's been the last few years. But then when you get the levers of power, you have to have the courage to pull them. And whether it's that or something else, I'm curious to get Your take on what mistakes you're seeing the right continue to make as we've made that switch from defense against the lies of the Biden administration and really totalitarian policies that looked like we were headed for full blown disaster as a country, by the grace of God, we're not. And now we're in the hot seat. We're in the opportunity to govern as the right across really all the levers of power at the federal level. What mistakes are you seeing here in Washington or culturally from the right?
- [24:58]
Dr. Kevin Roberts
Yeah, two. Two or three come to mind. And I just want to be clear that to issue this caveat, I'm not perfect. Heritage is not perfect. So I'm not throwing, you know, stones from anything but a glass house. But on the first one, we are probably the most consistently vocal voice against this. And that is the power of the Washington establishment in preventing real policy success, like total policy success, because they're afraid of their own shadow. And that is because of the influence, sure, of lobbyists. But it's also what de Tocqueville said we would have to have scores and scores and scores of in order to have a really good republic. And that is political courage. And so that's a mistake that some people on the right, not a majority, continue to make if they're here in Washington. Thankfully, there are elected leaders in both the House and the Senate. I'm thinking about Congressman Chip Roy, Senator Mike Lee, who've been vocal on all of this, especially on immigration, that are trying to break through that. That's a mistake. But the second thing that I would say for outside of Washington is that people who are following politics, like right minded people who are following politics, continue to accept the narrative framing of the left. And so when you think about how popular the President's agenda was to root out at least the several hundred thousand felons who are illegal aliens. The fact that the approval for that has gone down is not because the administration has done anything wrong. I don't even agree with the claim the administration's lost the messaging on that. You know, I think that could always be better. It's because the sum of the base listens too much to the falsehoods of the left. And this is why, and I'm not being gratuitous here, that's why people need to pay attention to programs like yours and scores of others, because that's where you can find the truth. And so I tell people, I mean, my staff can quote me on this, I'm sure they're nauseated. You know, Just thinking about how often I say this, stop reading those media outlets that just want to spread propaganda that make our jobs harder. But the third thing is to speak more broadly to the movement is I think we spend way too much time having these internecine fights. We need to be focused on aspirational vision, on helping the administration and its allies like Speaker Johnson in the House and some great conservative senators get the agenda done. Because if we miss the opportunity to get that done because we're online too much or we're having what might be very interesting and legitimate conversations, but they're probably best left for when we're out of power versus when we're in power. We need to be concentrating on helping the men and women who were elected to govern, govern. Because ultimately, the big indictment that I have is that there are too many conservative policymakers who are tentative in Washington and state capitals. The thing that Heritage is probably best known for in Washington and in state capitals is the statement, stop being so tentative. You've been elected duly to do XYZ job. You have appropriate legal and constitutional authority. Pull all of the levers.
- [28:04]
Isabel Brown
Yes.
- [28:04]
Dr. Kevin Roberts
We don't have enough conservative policymakers like President Trump who are willing to do that.
- [28:09]
Isabel Brown
Thank goodness for his bully attitude. That's really reshaping the right. I think we have such a fighter spirit that I don't know that we've seen really since a Teddy Roosevelt in our country, which is so exciting.
- [28:19]
Dr. Kevin Roberts
It is exciting. And hopefully we, you know, his, his, his model and a number of other policymakers in his mold inspires the next generations to be in that mold, too.
- [28:30]
Isabel Brown
I want to come back to the chronically online thing because I do think that's important to talk about. But when you speak to the media, really only having one priority, which is spreading rampant propaganda and trying to manufacture a feeling in you that then they can hijack to manipulate their agenda and political power. How do we start capturing these institutions better? Because I think the last several years we've really gone out of our way to build a parallel economy and parallel options. If you didn't like the public school system, pull your kids out of public school and go to private school. If you don't like the media, start listening to something like the Daily Wire. That works, and I think it's really effective. But I also think there are many institutions in our country, the church being one of them, that aren't going anywhere, nor should they. And it's time for courageous people rooted in what is good and true and beautiful. What we fight for here in the conservative movement to go recapture the arts, many areas of education, the church, and so much more. I know you talk a lot about this, but how specifically can we do that?
- [29:24]
Dr. Kevin Roberts
Great question. In a lot of ways, while I love the policy work we do at Heritage and love ideas, my real passion for this work is in the revitalization of institutions. You go back to my founding of a school and so on, and all of us at Heritage share that belief. But to the heart of your question, Isabel, I've always thought you have to sequence this, right? To the extent that we can speak on sort of a macro level of sequencing a bunch of individual decisions. The first is there has to be the creation of a parallel economy so that people can know you actually can not keep giving money to the man. Cancel subscriptions to ridiculous outlets like the New York Times and increasingly ridiculous newspapers like the Wall Street Journal, which is no longer conservative institutions we used to be able to count on. But you do that first. I've chosen to do that in education. Heritage actually supports a lot of that parallel economy. We can also do that with our corporate boards because so many of the corporations have been captured and we've got great progress to report, 100% as a movement on this. But the second step to the heart of your question, I'll just home in on education, is how you recapture these institutions. You could have universal school choice in every state in this country, which is our dream at Heritage, and you could build all of the private schools and charter schools to handle that demand. You would still have, by our studies at Heritage, 85 to 90% of American school age kids in public schools. And so it's not enough as awesome as universal school choices. And I cut my teeth in policy working on that. You also have to get to that step in this sequence when men and women are running for school board, when men and women are willing to go into, you know, right minded men and women are willing to go into public education. We won't achieve that unless we develop a parallel certification process for teachers. But we need. The charge that I would give friend to friend for people in your audience is we have to think about how we get back into those institutions and not do self cancellation of saying we're never going to participate in them. Because now we've got the opportunity during this presidential administration and this cultural momentum to take many of them back. And I think, and I need to do a better job of thinking that rather than as a homeschooling dad of 12 years saying, well, I could just exist in the parallel economy and make sure that my church parish is fine. Let's think about the possibilities we have for the American polity writ large and let's go take it back.
- [31:46]
Isabel Brown
Charlie used to articulate that as going into the heart of culture and changing it from the inside out, which I'm so grateful we're doing right now, whether that be in the entertainment industry in Hollywood. I know President Trump is very, very passionate about that. I just went to the film premiere of the Melania movie, which was fantastic.
- [32:01]
Dr. Kevin Roberts
I hear from two of my daughters was spectacular.
- [32:03]
Isabel Brown
I was expecting it to be good. Obviously, I love the first lady, but I do think it's going to redefine how documentaries are made, which is just an amazing statement to be making. And we're seeing that in the education system for sure. And I'm very, very grateful. Many of these universities are starting to kind of turn the ship a little tiny bit.
- [32:18]
Dr. Kevin Roberts
It's, if I may, just real brief interjection on that. Look, I'm a proud Longhorn. It's my favorite professional sp, the University of Texas. But as an alum and a proud alum, I was, I think I was educated well there by liberal professors. I ignored the politics, but I've not been able to give money to them in good faith until recently because what did they do? Through pressure by the governor because he appoints the Board of Regents, the Board of Regents became like conservative versus liberal, but just common sense. They hired a president who is very common sense and a provost friend of mine, Will Emboden, who is as conservative as someone can be and still be the number two at a big university system. This is an example of winning. And it doesn't have to look like rhetoric that someone like Donald Trump or Ron DeSantis uses. Although I like that rhetoric, it actually can be an example of recapturing institutions. We ought to take not just solace, but real encouragement from examples like that.
- [33:15]
Isabel Brown
If only my home state of Colorado would realize that we're a little far behind the eight ball there. But that's okay. There's hope.
- [33:21]
Dr. Kevin Roberts
But it might take a little while.
- [33:22]
Isabel Brown
It's going to take a lot longer out there. Before we keep talking with Dr. Kevin Roberts, I want to share with you guys a huge priority that I have had this almost spring. Spring is springing here in D.C. and it's to make my home the sanctuary of my family. My husband and I have insanely busy travel and work lives. It is constant chaos with a nearly 10 month old in the house right now. But making sure that we can set aside all of our efforts to make sure that our home is our sanctuary, our haven, our retreat from the world has been at the top of my priority list as a wife and a mom. And that's something that you too can do to make your home feel comfy and cozy. This month with our friends at Cozy Earth, they bring a little indulgence into everyday life so that you can actually slow down and savor the season. Most recently I have been loving their bamboo pajama set in particular. It's soft, it's breathable. It strikes the perfect balance between comfort and temperature control, which matters. Any postpartum moms out there know what I mean. The fabric regulates warmth so much better than traditional cotton so that you don't wake up too hot, which really, really makes a difference in my life right now. It has a super relaxed fit that moves with you throughout the night and it delivers the kind of everyday comfort that you'll reach for again and again and again. I love my cozy Earth PJs. I wear them almost every single night. Right now I actually have to keep washing them several times throughout the week because they are the only pair of PJs that I want to put on my body. And right now they are offering a 100 night sleep trial so that you can try them out too. If you don't totally love them, you can return them hassle free, but trust me, you definitely won't want to. Cozy Earth also offers a 10 year warranty because once you feel this level of comfort you will want it to last a decade. You can share a little extra love this February and going into spring and wrap yourself or someone you care about in comfort that truly feels special. By heading to cozyearth.com and using my code Isabelle for up to 20 off. Again, that's code Isabelle for up to 20 OFF. And if you get a post purchase survey and they ask who sent you, make sure you mention that you heard about Cozy Earth right here on the Isabel Brown Show. Celebrate everyday love with comfort that makes those little moments count. Circling back to this chronically online thing, there's a lot of people who are calling for what I would maybe say is a reform of conservatism moving forward and redefining what that means to be a really specific definition based on who you tend to agree with the most. And I've always really appreciated about our side, that we have room for ideological diversity, that we have the same space to disagree on a handful of things but share the general vision of the direction of the country and learn how to link arms with that. The linking of arms works really well with the Unity Party that we saw come into Washington, D.C. this last year. But it's kind of starting to fall apart, and I think a lot of people are feeling very lost without a center compass and a resounding voice telling people it's okay to still be on the same team. I would say that it's been Charlie the last several years, and I don't know what that looks like in the wake of his death. I still can't believe it's been five months. But if this much ideological anger has emerged in just five months after his death, rightfully so. People are incredibly concerned about what this means for the midterm elections, for the 2028 elections, and just the future of the conservative movement in general. How can we fight for that continued big tent while still not being afraid to be on offense for conservatism?
- [36:37]
Dr. Kevin Roberts
There are two things, let me say before even getting to the first one, an overarching comment. It concerns us, too, at Heritage and for obviously policy reasons, but also political reasons. And, and on the point of politics, the first thing that I would say is, which is not to be dismissive toward the concern which we share deeply. It's the natural order of things. We've had this massive realignment, political realignment in the United States that Donald Trump has led and personified. And it's natural when people realize that that leader will be stepping off the stage by definition in 2029, that there may not be another figure, and this is aggravated by Charlie's assassination, who can step into that void and keep that coalition, that broad coalition together. I'm a historian, so I think in these terms, the same thing happened to Andrew Jackson's party in the 1830s. The only thing the opposing party believed in. This is a point of hope. This is getting to the second point in the 1830s was that they didn't like Jackson. So it's going for us as conservatives leaning on history, is that while we have some things to clean up here, and I'll offer some advice to all of us, starting with myself on that, that the, the, the left, the Democrat Party, believes in only one thing, and that is they don't like Donald Trump. So they're actually in worse shape than we are because we've actually proven we can win an election with this coalition, what should we do? Those of us especially who are not policymakers running for office, we need to remember what you said, which is that we can have A difference of opinion on a couple of issues, maybe even three or four issues. And maybe one of those issues really important to us. But it doesn't mean we need to trash each other because of those differences of opinion. I know this sounds a little Pollyannish, but it works every time conservatives win a presidential election. We need to spend time remembering what we agree on an aspirational vision. And where there are differences of opinion, when there are really noxious ideas that come into that, we have to be really clear about those noxious ideas not being part of our coalition. We've learned that in the last few months as it relates to anti Semitism. But even more importantly than saying what aren't the ideas in our system or our coalition is what we stand for. And that's what policymakers in Washington, as we prepare for the midterms, aren't doing. There's no plan here in Washington for what you run on. It's just to get reelected other than the popularity of Trump. And the thing is, so many of these people running for reelection are blocking the next steps of the Trump agenda. Yeah, that's Heritage's frustration.
- [39:04]
Isabel Brown
That alone is so frustrating for me too. And I have so many conversations with my friends and family about this. You would think you would want to lean into what the country is begging you to do when you're here in Washington and you have no opposition. You can get legislation through the House, through the Senate, to the President's desk and immediately it will be signed. So it's frustrating to me that we're not seeing more single issue legislation. We're not seeing a lot of bullying, unabashed conservatism leading from the inside out here. But that shared vision I think we have yet still to write for what looks like the real ideal America after 2026 and beyond. I think young people are pretty honest about what that looks like. Less of a libertarian version and more of an unapologetically conservative vision for our country. But if you could lay out, I know you already said a few, but some key policy specific initiatives that we should really be fighting for in Washington and asking our elected officials to act on, what would they be?
- [39:58]
Dr. Kevin Roberts
The first three would be affordability, affordability and affordability. And, and by that I mean this is talk about a complicated problem. But by that there of course has to be a reduction in all of the over regulation and permitting that has created this, helped to create this. We have to have a reduction in federal spending. But there also has to be a recognition that now this is points four and five, if you will, we have to reform two of the industries that are driving these costs as well, Health insurance, healthcare and education, especially higher education. The good news is the administration and Congress have made some headway on higher ed. States have made headway there. I'm actually optimistic about that. But the President himself, his cabinet, Congress need to continue talking about the affordability problem. But I know the President is concerned that that word has been co opted by the left. Our friendly advice.
- [40:49]
Isabel Brown
It's a word that it works.
- [40:50]
Dr. Kevin Roberts
Our friendly advice to, and they know we're very supportive is let's re co opt from the left. It should be ours anyway because we have better policies. But I want to home in real briefly on health care. One of the problems that we movement conservatives have in Washington in pushing through a very conservative agenda on something like health care, I'll just be blunt, are squishy Republicans who are afraid of their own shadow. They're afraid of all the money that Big Pharma spends. And what we're telling them is, man, even if you're not going to be reelected because of this, what a glorious way to go out that you plant the flag for the American people and you can actually be comfortable with your own conscience because you did something which is returning power back to the people. This is how you reform healthcare. Many, many proposals, including some that come out of this organization. Heritage is never going to stop talking about that because our objective, even before helping our friends appropriately achieve political power, is getting the right ideas in the mix. So there's a menu of options.
- [41:52]
Isabel Brown
One such bill is in front of Congress as we speak to act on behalf of the American people. And that's enforcing voter id, which you wouldn't think is such a hurdle to get over. But yet here we are, and it's quite controversial, at least over here on Capitol Hill. Where are we at with the SAVE act and how is Heritage helping to get it over the finish line?
- [42:10]
Dr. Kevin Roberts
We're at a really pivotal point and it's the two things I would say. We have the opportunity to get across the finish line. But I think the administration would benefit. They've been supportive of this by knowing the American people want this done. And so that's a way of saying that we can't count on even President Trump to be able to spend political capital every single time. Right? He is remarkable heroic in his willingness to do that. But even he needs to hear from the conservative base and from everyday Americans. 71% of Democrats support voter ID for elections. We need to call our members of Congress and our members of the Senate and thank the administration for what they're doing. But the second thing is we've got to make sure that we are not listening to the lies of the. The leftist oriented media and understanding this is the most common sense legislation I can think of. We need ID for anything. For anything. You probably had to show one just to come into Heritage.
- [43:12]
Isabel Brown
I did have to show one to come.
- [43:13]
Dr. Kevin Roberts
Sorry about that. We should have sent Isabel Brown into Heritage.
- [43:15]
Isabel Brown
No, it's good. You got to make sure I'm not a clone. We live in an Elon Musk era now. You never know. Anything's possible.
- [43:21]
Dr. Kevin Roberts
That's true. And so we're at such a pivotal time. Pick up the phone. And I know that sounds, you know, really cliche coming from someone who works in Washington, but I'm letting you know that in the digital age, the most powerful thing other than an in person meeting with a member of Congress is to call their office, especially if they represent you and say, you must pass the Save America Act.
- [43:43]
Isabel Brown
People so underestimate that. I was an intern in Congress once upon a time, years ago. The kid getting yelled at on the phone. And it actually does go somewhere. We have to tally it every single time. And your representatives really do rely on that, actually for feedback of whether they're gonna get reelected or not as base number one. But I love how you articulated, even if you go out, what a powerful way to go out. That really should be the mentality of the right moving forward.
- [44:06]
Dr. Kevin Roberts
And, you know, the left governs that way. That's the way. This is a compliment of Nancy Pelosi. Not of anything I agree with, but of tactics. Sorry, Isabelle, you have to edit that one out. That when they passed Obamacare, they knew the vote they were taking.
- [44:18]
Isabel Brown
Yep.
- [44:18]
Dr. Kevin Roberts
And think about how they have reordered not just health care, but the entire American economy, but also the entire American conversation about affordability. Conservatives in Washington need to muster the same spine to take those kinds of votes.
- [44:33]
Isabel Brown
I don't want to sound all doom and gloom because we are living in a very exciting time in Washington. There's so many amazing things happening every day, and we're very privileged to get to cover them here on my show. But you shared with me. Heritage has some really exciting new research projects that you guys have been working on for this year and beyond about our economic freedom and our military strength. Can you tell us a little bit about it?
- [44:52]
Dr. Kevin Roberts
I love all of our research, but I particularly like our research that is published in the form of an index Because I guess it's the teacher in me. I like to see the grades that people get. And so one of those is the Index of Military Strength. We've been publishing for about 25, five years. And what it shows is over the last few years, in particular, especially under President Biden, is that America's military strength, to tell you something you know, has gotten weaker. And it isn't because of a lack of investment. It's because of a lack of strategic clarity about what you should be investing in. We're happy to report that while the United States still has many things it needs to fix, for example, we need to be building more submarines to get back on par with the Chinese, that we're beginning to make some improvements, and we would anticipate more of those moving forward. The second product I love because part of my job is traveling internationally, visiting not just with politicians who are in other countries, but movement conservatives around the world. And the heritage product they pay attention to the most is the Index of Economic Freedom. Because it tells them, if we take this conversation that you and I have had, we take all those conservative policies that go into real individual economic freedom, those would mean that our country is economically free because we're able to make these choices. The United States, for example, has been mediocre on this index, but has made some significant progress in just one year of the second term. But ultimately, this is the upshot of this. Other countries want to mimic the United States and its policies. And so you know that when countries are doing that, they don't just look more like the United States economically. They start to have some really good cultural and social practices. And I think in particular about the now wonderfully popular new Prime Minister of Japan who had all of these policies. She was hitting some noise in her parliament, and what did she do in the parliamentary system? She called snap elections. And all of the experts said, oh, no, Madam Prime Minister, don't do that. You know, you're going to lose seats. She won an overwhelming now super majority in her parliament. To do what? To implement all of these policies. Wow. It is a great example of how kind of nerdy research can have a real impact on individual lives.
- [47:01]
Isabel Brown
I love stuff like that, especially as a former D.C. staffer, because no one ever likes to read a white paper or some huge, boring policy report, but it does make a difference.
- [47:10]
Dr. Kevin Roberts
But, you know, an index for those of us who have adhd. And an index is just great because I can look at one screen and say, oh, I can see Japan's doing well. And that we ought to be doing better.
- [47:18]
Isabel Brown
Yep, bullet points help a whole lot. There's a whole lot of people over the last six months who have been texting me in the conservative creator world about how they're tossing and turning every single night over these sleepless nights, keeping us awake about the future of the conservative movement, the future of our country, and what we can do to make a bigger difference, especially in the wake of our leader of the conservative movement, Charlie, being taken from us far too soon. I've had a lot of sleepless nights also as a new mom, but I can tell you between all of the angst going out there in the world and the pressure of being a new mom in the middle of the night, the sleep that I do get has been some of the best sleep I've ever gotten thanks to our friends at Helix Mattress Finding the right mattress for you doesn't have to be complicated. Our friends at Helix actually make it so incredibly straightforward with their Sleep Quiz, which matches you to the perfect mattress based on your specific preferences and sleep needs. They are not just another mattress company either. Helix is the most awarded mattress brand out there with glowing reviews from major publications like Forbes and Wired. And it is not just marketing hype. A recent study they conducted found that 82% of participants actually saw an increase in their deep sleep cycle while sleeping on a Helix mattress, which is really impressive when you think about how crucial quality sleep is for everything else going on in your life. Right now I am in the process of trying to transition my daughter to a floor bed because we've discovered the crib just ain't for her. Any other moms out there can relate. Send your thoughts, your prayers, your vibes. Your best advice please to this first time mom. But we are even getting Isla her own Helix mattress because I am so insistent it has made that much of a difference in my husband and I's sleep routine and we are so much more rested when we wake up in the morning with our Helix mattress. They even offer free shipping straight to your door, a 120 night sleep trial so that you can actually test it out in your own home and returns and exchanges are totally seamless if it's not quite right. Plus they back everything up with a limited lifetime warranty. You can start sleeping right tonight by ordering a Helix mattress today. Go to helixsleep.com Isabel for 27% off site wide that is helixsleep.com Isabelle for 27% off site wide and make sure you enter our show name, the Isabel Brown show at checkout so that they know we sent you that strategic framework to inspire others. I think can also be a microcosm example at the state level in America. I've had a couple of episodes do unexpectedly well of my show the last few weeks talking about Virginia. I'm living in Northern Virginia right now because we moved here for husband's job in the government and we thought there's no way we want to live with a baby right in the heart of dc. DC is crazy. Maryland, you know, it's Maryland. So Virginia is obviously the best choice, right?
- [49:57]
Dr. Kevin Roberts
It is the best.
- [49:58]
Isabel Brown
Very wrong now for now. Oh my gosh, it is insane just how crazy our new state government is and how much they're trying to bring Virginia off the rails into full blown, arguably Islamic, totalitarian, communist insanity. They want to tax you for walking your dog and every time you watch Netflix and every time you have doordash delivered the personal home improvement tax, if you change your floors or paint your exterior of your home, you're going to owe the state government twenty plus thousand dollars so that they can triple their own salaries. And these really scary free speech laws really targeting any sort of criticism against Islam are extremely concerning to me. And then you contrast that with a state like Wyoming, which I know you love and I love, that is my ultimate dream, to end up there with my family. And upwards of 70% of the state legislature is the Freedom Caucus. They're completely unafraid to go full on headfirst into extreme red meat conservative, the
- [50:50]
Dr. Kevin Roberts
most based legislature in the country.
- [50:52]
Isabel Brown
Shout out to Wyoming. We really do love you as a Coloradan. They're always hesitant to accept me as a refugee, but I feel like I would vote the right way. So don't bring that out there.
- [51:00]
Dr. Kevin Roberts
Don't bring that green license plate across the state.
- [51:01]
Isabel Brown
Promise I'll leave the green license plate at mom and dad's house. How can we be leaning into exemplifying these amazing leaders at the state level that gets zero airtime in the media to start creating that same inspiration for other purple states or even just light red states to be a lot more courageous so that they don't end up as Virginia?
- [51:19]
Dr. Kevin Roberts
It is in a lot of ways the most pivotal question for us as a movement beyond the intellectual side we've talked about, beyond who it is who succeeds President Trump. Because if in this period of governance here in Washington, we don't revitalize federalism, we've missed the opportunity to do exactly what you have laid out, which is that if you think about the Democrat governor of Virginia, who's been in office only three weeks, and not just the
- [51:44]
Isabel Brown
radical agenda that way, it really makes your heart just sink.
- [51:48]
Dr. Kevin Roberts
I promise you, I'm an eternal optimist. But being now, this is my third stint in Virginia, a state I truly, truly love, and it is home now, it's really distressing, not just the substance of the policies themselves, but the pace with which they implement the policies. It goes back to our point about our side being so tentative, all of that, to say, ultimately, what's going to happen is the contrast between good policies and what's going on in Virginia will be clear, but only after people have suffered. And so what we have to do as a movement to the real basis of your question is to inspire American men and women who feel called to go into elective office to remember that Washington's the last place they should think about coming. I'm grateful for the good men and women who are here, don't get me wrong. But Heritage has put its money where its mouth is. We're now involved in upwards of 30 state legislatures, varying degrees, depending on the state laws, running a shorter version of our policy set for this very reason, because we think that we can inspire men and women to run for local office and state office. They don't even have to run for governor. They can run for the state legislature, have an outsized impact on or through policy work as long as we continue to get the federal government out of the way. And so if someone's thinking, I say, I'm living in Wyoming and I'm not want to travel to Washington every week, that's probably wise. Run for the state legislature, run for the county commission, run for mayor. Those are the offices that the left paid attention to for a generation when we, with really good intentions on our side, were paying attention to Washington. We've got to do both. And our movement is now mature enough, it's deep enough, it's popular enough to do that. If you said, I'll put it this way, Isabel, if you said, kevin, I'm gonna give you one magic wand, make one change. Conservatives, spend more time thinking about your states. That's where the future is.
- [53:34]
Isabel Brown
Are there any outstanding state policies that you're seeing emerge right now that you're really particularly excited about?
- [53:40]
Dr. Kevin Roberts
I am almost so excited I want to jump out of this chair. About the. I think it's 20 or 21 states that have passed universal school choice. As an educator and growing up as a poor kid, I could have benefited from that. I'm not whining about it or complaining but you know that they would have been great. It's so important for kids who are underprivileged to have this right and we're now doing that as conservatives. But equal to that, and it goes straight to the Virginia example is just listen to this roster of states and I know what you're going to be thinking. As a native Coloradan, I'm from the deep South. I know, I know this. Arkansas, Louisiana, my native state, Mississippi, Alabama, West Virginia, those are the next great states conservative policy innovation. They're passing school choice, they're getting rid of all of the over regulation that has prevented really good investments that actually do create jobs in those states. And the one thing that they're all beginning to do, I think about West Virginia in particular benefiting because of Virginia's nonsense now eliminating the state income tax. This is not boomer old right conservatism. I'm telling you from this Gen Xer that this is the kind of thing that causes people to move from one state to the next. And if Spanberger succeeds in Virginia in implementing this policy, I'm afraid that many of us who are very proud Virginia residents are going to think about moving. But at least we would have the model of West Virginia of all places
- [55:06]
Isabel Brown
to do that in what to do next. There are even states like Florida and Wyoming, funny enough that are trying to go the next step in eliminating property taxes too which will be incredibly interesting to see. I don't know how Wyoming does it. No estate tax, no inheritance tax, very low sales tax. They're just living life out there with it's because less than a million people, I suppose.
- [55:25]
Dr. Kevin Roberts
But the Internet is so spotty. They spend more time in person and this is healthy for us.
- [55:30]
Isabel Brown
They're good ideas. We love that. In our last couple of minutes together, what I love the most about the Heritage foundation and about your leadership here is that everything is so focused on the nucleus of what powers a great society and that is the American family. I have a young new family myself with an almost 10 month old at home who doesn't sleep. So if you have any sleep advice, please let me know.
- [55:49]
Dr. Kevin Roberts
I'll have you talk to my wife.
- [55:50]
Isabel Brown
Oh yeah, good stuff. But you're a dad yourself and I think reorienting our country to start at the family dinner table instead of constantly looking at screens that are dividing us and looking towards Washington to place blame elsewhere. I love the model I was raised in that my parents believed there was no such thing as a kids table. Kids were supposed to talk with their adults in their life, whether that's their parents or their aunts and uncles and cousins, friends who came over for dinner, about what's happening in the world around them and become informed, engaged citizens. Do you have a message for young parents like me on how we do that and how we revitalize the family from within our own homes moving forward?
- [56:23]
Dr. Kevin Roberts
I do, and I mean it very genuinely, Isabel. Thank you for your own witness. I mean that not just for me, but for my family. As I told you, we're all big fans. But I will say my wife Michelle and I have four kids and she deserves most of the credit for this. But early on, even when it was difficult because of kids nap schedules, being cranky, everyone wanted to go to bed at different times, although we all have always been sort of early and going to bed, we carved out time for family dinner. And even with my travel, which I've done in a few leadership stops, when I'm home, we have family dinner. When I'm not there, they have family dinner. And so you fast forward to the point where now our kids are young adults. And invariably when each of our four kids is asked, what's the most important thing, like the best thing your mom and dad did? I won't tell you about the opposite of that, but the best thing is they carved out time for family dinner. It's where we learn not just our table manners, but where we learn to kind of mitigate some differences of opinion. Because at my table, as you might imagine, we talk about all the things you're not supposed to, politics, religion, sports.
- [57:27]
Isabel Brown
And so we love it.
- [57:28]
Dr. Kevin Roberts
Yeah, and so do that too. And what will happen is you're, you know, on a random Wednesday night, not just on a Sunday or a big holiday in the United States, you're going to sit back and say, gosh, for those of us who are people of faith, God occasionally gives us glimpses of heaven. The family dinner table every single night can be a glimpse of heaven in this life.
- [57:52]
Isabel Brown
Oh, you're going to make me cry. That's so, so powerful. Last question for you is a good one. What are you most excited about with this new generation, this new idea generation coming into adulthood in terms of the future of America and this generational realignment of conservatism coming back into fashion, that
- [58:11]
Dr. Kevin Roberts
this wonderful new generation doesn't take any bs, all of you, and you're right, you despise inauthenticity as you should, and you have a skepticism toward American institutions. And yet what I've learned, especially since being here at Heritage is. That doesn't mean that you've forsaken the future. You're willing to go fight for that future because you understand that there's something to fight for. I see my generation, Generation X, is not just holding the line, but maybe picking up enough ground so that when we're passing the baton to your generation, which is happening right now, as it should, that y' all are able to take that ground. I'm actually. Sometimes I say I'm cautiously optimistic about things to hedge my bets. I'm exceedingly optimistic about Gen Z. I think y' all are awesome.
- [58:57]
Isabel Brown
Well, thank you. I do, too. And I didn't take a lot of compliments for that the last few years as one of the people who saw this coming a long time ago when it wasn't very fashionable to say so. Thank you so, so much, Dr. Roberts. Thank you for your leadership, for continuing to use Heritage to fight the good fight here in D.C. and beyond into the rest of the world. And we are, too, very, very optimistic about the rest of 2026 and beyond.