The V@x Questions New Parents Are Afraid to Ask

Summary

The Isabel Brown Show — Detailed Episode Summary
Podcast: The Isabel Brown Show
Host: Isabel Brown (The Daily Wire)
Episode: The V@x Questions New Parents Are Afraid to Ask
Date: March 6, 2026
Guest: Dr. Joel Gator Warsh, Integrative Pediatrician & Author

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Episode Overview

In this highly anticipated episode, Isabel Brown delves into the complex, confusing, and often emotionally charged subject of the childhood vaccine schedule with Dr. Joel Gator Warsh, a well-known pediatrician and social media educator. Together, they tackle the questions and anxieties new parents face regarding vaccines, explore the origins of vaccine hesitancy, and offer a candid, balanced discussion on how to approach these life-altering decisions with informed consent. The conversation is driven by real-world experience, the host's own parental journey, scientific training, and a commitment to restoring public trust in health institutions.

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Main Themes and Purpose

• Restoring Open, Evidence-Based Conversation: Encouraging parents and clinicians to honestly grapple with vaccine science, hesitancy, and informed consent, free from shame or dogma.
• Examining Historical and Current Vaccine Recommendations: Unpacking why the vaccine schedule is contentious, particularly in the US, and how federal guidance is changing.
• Empowering Parents: Arming parents with critical approaches, research strategies, and conversational tools for making medical choices for their families.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Anxiety and Stigma Faced by New Parents

[00:36–02:14; 05:56–06:46]

• Isabel shares her overwhelming experience navigating the childhood vaccine schedule for her 10-month-old daughter:

  "It was shockingly overwhelming the first time my husband and I had to navigate this...trying to find all of the answers to my questions in the dark corners of the interweb instead of our culture encouraging better conversations out in the open based from a place of actual scientific discovery..." — Isabel Brown [00:36]

• Social pressure and medical gatekeeping are common: Pediatrician offices often refuse patients who question or deviate from the standard schedule.
• Dr. Warsh highlights the difficulty in finding medical providers willing to discuss parental hesitancy, emphasizing:

  "If you can't even ask questions, then that's really not the right place for you..." — Dr. Joel Gator Warsh [06:46]

2. The Culture of Questioning — Or the Lack Thereof

[08:15–10:48]

• Isabel and Dr. Warsh discuss the hostile environment against questioning vaccines, especially evident during COVID-19.
• The scientific method requires skepticism, but vaccine discourse frequently becomes adversarial or religious in fervor:

  "Doctors just believe in vaccines so strongly, it's almost become a religion. And then anybody that questions it...you're demonized, you're called an anti-vaxxer." — Dr. Joel Gator Warsh [09:08]

• Censorship during COVID-19 made open discussion even more fraught and dangerous for professionals:

  "It was so censored, you couldn't talk about it. And that was so frustrating for me." — Dr. Joel Gator Warsh [10:48]

3. Medical Education, Pharmaceutical Influence, and Gaps in Knowledge

[14:36–18:04]

• Isabel relates hearing from doctors that med school education on vaccines is cursory and driven by the pharmaceutical model.
• Dr. Warsh ties gaps in education to the financial influence of biotech and pharma:

  "Pharma pays for the news, pays for medical education, it pays in the journals. They're the biggest funders of all of these organizations." — Dr. Joel Gator Warsh [15:22]

• Nutritional and preventive medicine gets minimal attention, and research cited as “debunking” vaccine-autism links is much narrower than popularly believed.

4. Research Gaps and the Importance of Ongoing Inquiry

[19:55–25:55]

• Dr. Warsh laments the lack of long-term, vaccinated-vs-unvaccinated studies and the failure to research vaccine side effects as thoroughly as potential benefits:

  "I was most surprised about the lack of research, especially when it comes to looking at vaccinated versus unvaccinated kids." — Dr. Joel Gator Warsh [25:55]

• Without robust research, both risks and reassurances are speculative, feeding public uncertainty.

5. Hepatitis B Vaccine at Birth: Why the Controversy?

[00:00 & 28:13–32:48]

• Both speakers highlight how the Hep B vaccine is emblematic of parental skepticism:

  "If you say to somebody, look, you have a one in a million chance for your baby to get hepatitis B and you're saying, I'm going to give my baby a vaccine on the first day of life...that doesn't make a lot of sense to most parents." — Dr. Joel Gator Warsh [00:00 & 30:02]

• Child protective services threats for declining a non-mandatory vaccine are described as "really, really unfortunate" and damaging to trust.

6. Ingredient Concerns: Mercury, Aluminum, and "Combination" Shots

[33:27–35:28]

• The removal of thimerosal (mercury) and rising questions about aluminum are discussed. Dr. Warsh underscores the principle of “precaution” even absent proof of harm and draws parallels to past slow-moving health disasters (lead):

  "We said the same thing about lead 100 years ago...And then now, no, no, you shouldn't have any, any lead around." — Dr. Joel Gator Warsh [33:49]

• Even ingredients not proven harmful warrant scrutiny and alternatives if possible.

7. COVID-19 Vaccine and the Collapse of Public Trust

[40:48–43:12]

• COVID-19 pandemic is cast as a watershed, eroding faith in doctors, public health, and vaccines generally.
• Isabel critiques the "safe and effective" slogan as premature, and Dr. Warsh details the legacy of broken trust and shifting parent attitudes.

8. Pharma Liability and Parental Rights

[43:45–46:38]

• The legal immunity of vaccine manufacturers is discussed as a lesser-known but deeply consequential aspect:

  "It's not something that you would think about. You don't realize that that product is different than every other product on the market." — Dr. Joel Gator Warsh [46:11]

9. Social Media, Physician Influencers, and the Shift Toward Dialogue

[47:49–53:52]

• Social media's role in medicine is dissected. While influencer medicine can be fraught, it also opens vital conversations for parents.
• Dr. Warsh prefers a balanced approach, not exclusively “team CDC” or “team anti-vax”:

  "It's harder to get likes and clicks in the middle...but it’s surprising to see that people really like it too." — Dr. Joel Gator Warsh [47:49]

10. Politicization of Health and the Maha Movement

[56:41–60:04]

• Both note the surprising recent shift: vaccine and holistic health skepticism has migrated from the left to the right politically, with Dr. Warsh remarking:

  "It’s not left versus right when it comes to health. There are many political things you can deal with, but ultimately health is parents against big corporations." — Dr. Joel Gator Warsh [58:29]

• The need for bipartisan unity in health advocacy is emphasized.

11. Informed Consent as the Central Issue

[61:37–66:08]

• Both speakers argue against compulsory vaccination; informed, voluntary choice is the route to rebuilding trust and improving products.
• Parents forcing changes in health care by demanding answers.
• Asking questions is not “woo woo” but the hallmark of good parenting and robust science:

  "If you have questions, that doesn't make you a bad parent, that makes you a good parent." — Dr. Joel Gator Warsh [64:27]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On shame and open dialogue:
  "There’s a lot of shame and questioning of our own decisions, which it shouldn’t be. There should be information. We should have resources, we should have places we can go." — Dr. Joel Gator Warsh [06:46]
• On why questioning is essential:
  "The very scientific method is built upon questioning everything." — Interviewer (Daily Wire Host) [08:43]
• On vaccine research gaps:
  "You can't say that vaccines do cause autism, but you certainly can't say that it's totally, thoroughly been debunked." — Dr. Joel Gator Warsh [15:22]
• On the need for both sides to come together:
  "Health is not going to get better by fighting each other. We're going to have to team up to say, look, big corporations are a problem..." — Dr. Joel Gator Warsh [58:29]

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Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• [00:00] Opening remarks on the Hepatitis B vaccine controversy
• [05:34] Dr. Warsh’s introduction and approach
• [09:08] “Vaccine as religion,” suppression of questions
• [15:22] Pharmaceutical influence in medical education
• [25:55] Surprising lack of vaccine safety research
• [30:02] First-day-of-life Hep B shot and parental backlash
• [33:49] Discourse on metals (mercury/aluminum) in vaccines
• [40:48] COVID-19’s effect on trust in science
• [43:45] Big Pharma liability and vaccine injury compensation
• [47:49] Social media’s impact, “teams” in medicine
• [58:29] Politicization of vaccine discourse and the Maha movement
• [61:37] The case for universal informed consent
• [64:27] Practical advice for parents on research and questioning
• [66:08] How to keep asking questions despite social pressures

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Actionable Takeaways for Listeners

• You are entitled to ask questions about vaccines—this is an act of responsible parenting and is entirely scientific.
• Seek multiple perspectives: Read both mainstream and critical sources, find communities and professionals who welcome open, informed dialogue.
• Understand your rights: Informed consent is a fundamental principle; beware of institutions that discourage or refuse dialogue.
• Push back changes the system: As more parents question and leave rigid practices, the medical field is beginning to adapt.

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Guest Book and Resources

• Between a Shot and a Hard Place by Dr. Joel Gator Warsh — a balanced guide to vaccine conversations embracing both sides of the debate.
• Follow Dr. Warsh on Instagram @drjoelgator for ongoing updates and resources.

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Closing Sentiment

This episode stands out as a rare, honest forum for tackling new parent anxieties about childhood vaccines. Isabel Brown and Dr. Joel Gator Warsh model civil, data-driven, and empathetic dialogue—urging parents to claim both their questions and their authority in stewarding their children’s health.

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“You want to do what's best for your kid. Your family is up to you and you're responsible for your own kids. And if somebody doesn't agree with what you're doing, then too bad for them.”
— Dr. Joel Gator Warsh [66:08]

Transcript

[Dr. Joel Gator Warsh]

Child protective services should never be called for a recommended vaccine, especially when it comes to hepatitis B. It never made sense to me either. If you say to somebody, look, you have a one in a million chance for your baby to get hepatitis B and you're saying, I'm going to give my baby a vaccine on the first day of life when they just came out for something that's a one in a million risk. That doesn't make a lot of sense to most parents. Yeah, a lot of people that totally believe in vaccines didn't believe in that recommendation. And many, many countries don't do it.

[Isabel Brown]

One of the scariest and most overwhelming and confusing parts of New Parenthood is figuring out the childhood. Am I even allowed to say this word now? Vaccine schedule. And it almost feels like you're not even allowed to ask any questions. You certainly can't google anything about this when you're trying to find the right pediatrician for your first baby. Everybody's website says we will refuse to treat you basically if you have any questions and you don't follow the government approved timeline. It was shockingly overwhelming the first time my husband and I had to navigate this with our first daughter who is now 10 months old. And I still find myself with more questions than I started with, trying to find out all of the answers to my questions in the dark corners of the interweb instead of our culture. Encouraging better conversations out in the open based from a place of actual scientific discovery, of evidence, and of restoring public trust in science. Again, as you guys may know, I am a biomedical scientist by education. I have two degrees in biomedical sciences and I remember learning about vaccines from a particular vantage point in my medical education. I was not a med student, so I certainly didn't get the depth of knowledge of vaccines that medical students do by the time they're training to become doctors. But I never really remember us having an important meaningful conversation in my science classes about where some of the anti vax movement was coming from, why people had hesitancy around certain vaccines, and why the science, according to many, was still unsettled in so many of these questions, necessitating further research, further investigation, and certainly further conversation about the topic. Instead, I remember everyone pointing the finger

[Interviewer (Daily Wire Host)]

at anybody who was remotely uncomfortable with

[Isabel Brown]

certain vaccines, calling you this radical extremist, usually a whack job, crazy greeny mom who didn't really care about her children whatsoever. If you were hesitant about certain vaccines and that science says, says XYZ definitively, we will never ask another question ever again. That never sat well with me. And it certainly never sat well with me through and after Covid, when it became very, very obvious and clear to most young parents and especially to teenagers themselves, that there really wasn't settled science on every single vaccine on the market. And if you even remotely brought this up from 2020 to 2023, you were virtually eviscerated off the face of the Internet, your entire Identity scrubbed from YouTube, from X, from Instagram, and you were willing to ask questions that the science was not really willing to ask and certainly not wanting to answer. These days everybody is freaking out about how our current Secretary of Health and Human Services, Secretary Robert F. Kennedy, rfk is this rabid, evil killer anti vaxxer destroying your children's health. All because just a few weeks ago the CDC issued new federal guidelines on the childhood vaccine schedule. But it's certainly a whole lot more complicated than that. That by the way, is just an obvious lie. What does remain clear to me is that parents have no idea how to start asking the right questions about vaccines for their children and the government has absolutely no idea how to start reinstating public trust in public science programs. Rightfully so after the disaster that was COVID 19 and the government's response to it all over the world. But one person on social media has stood out to me as a leading expert in the gray area in navigating no propaganda, no hysteria, no crazy vaccine theory one way or another, but just delivering objective truth so that all of the right questions can be asked and hopefully you can come to the right answers on how to guide your children's health appropriately from a place of knowledge and informed consent. And that is Dr. Joel Gator Warsh on social media, who I have really really enjoyed following over the past few years. He is a fan, fascinating pediatrician, he's a dad himself and he is the author of a hugely impactful book Between a Shot and a Hard Place, which he describes as tackling difficult vaccine questions with balance, data and clarity. Seeing as my daughter is 10 months old and I still don't have answers to the questions that I really need to know in taking ownership over my kids health. And we just saw a major overhaul of the childhood vaccine schedule from the CDC under the leadership of Secretary RFK. Dr. Gater's posts have consistent consistently been some of my absolute favorite that I have seen on social media tackling this growing crisis of a lack of knowledge from virtually everyone on the subject in our country today. And his book has been at the top of my reading list for many, many many months in a row. But more importantly, this is a subject that you guys are struggling to understand in real time as well. And this topic has been perhaps your most highly requested interview that we cover here on the Isabel Brown Show. Today we are sitting down with none other than Dr. Gator himself to unpack the contents of his book, help parents make sense of their children's health by tackling the big questions that you all have about the childhood vaccine schedule. So without further ado, let's jump right in.

[Interviewer (Daily Wire Host)]

Dr. Warsh, Dr. Gator, Joel, man of many names. I am so excited to finally have you on the Isabel Brown show and get into this subject. That has been probably the most requested topic I've received since we relaunched the show with the Daily Wire. Everything childhood healthcare, particularly vaccines. Thanks for being here in Nashville today.

[Dr. Joel Gator Warsh]

Thank you for having me on.

[Interviewer (Daily Wire Host)]

I am super pumped to get into this and I want to just start at the very baseline I'm a new parent.

[Isabel Brown]

As you know.

[Interviewer (Daily Wire Host)]

I reached out to you initially as a new parent. Just saying I have no idea what I'm doing in researching how I'm supposed to walk through my child's first year of a million pediatrician visits and in particular the vaccines that I'm expected to be giving my kid.

[Isabel Brown]

And I'm the oldest in my family.

[Interviewer (Daily Wire Host)]

I don't have any big sisters to ask about this. Most of my friends are just now having babies all at the exact same time as me. So there's not a lot of mentors I can turn to for this. And my husband and I noticed very, very quickly after we gave birth to our daughter last April that when we started Googling, hey, what are people recommending about the childhood vaccine schedule? Everything is completely one sided and you're not allowed to question anything. So for new parents who might be walking through some of this, where is that shame and stigma coming from and what should that first step look like?

[Dr. Joel Gator Warsh]

Yeah, it's a really, I think, unfortunate time and very difficult time for new parents because there's so much conflicting information out there. And like you said, there's a lot of shame and questioning of our own decisions, which it shouldn't be. There should be information. We should have resources, we should have places we can go. But a lot of times it's really tough. So I think as a new parent, you want to find that community where you can discuss things. If you're unsure of who to look towards, then I think if you can find a trusted resource like a pediatrician, I think that's really helpful. But it's not always easy to find one, especially if you have questions, especially if you're a little hesitant around vaccines. A lot of practices won't even take you. So I think it's really important to know that you are empowered to interview, you are empowered to look around. And I think you should do a little bit of research, especially of questions, to find a place where you can at least have a discussion about these things. If you can't even ask questions, then that's really not the right place for you, especially if you have questions. If you want to just do the regular CDC schedule, fine. But I think. Well, I know more and more parents are questioning things these days. They have a lot more questions about vaccines. And you need to have a place that you feel safe that you can ask those questions so that you can feel comfortable doing anything that you are doing. I mean, my personal belief is nobody should be forced to do anything. Yeah, not everybody agrees with that, but that's my personal belief. And I think that you should, as a doctor, educate. That should be our job. And if you're a parent who has questions, you should go to a place where you can get educated, you can ask questions, you can have discussions, and that way you can feel comfortable with the decisions that you're making. Or as comfortable as possible, at least.

[Interviewer (Daily Wire Host)]

Yeah, it's this concept of informed consent. Right. I'm a scientist by education. I don't use science every day anymore, although minimally.

[Dr. Joel Gator Warsh]

Right.

[Interviewer (Daily Wire Host)]

Every day in this pursuit of objective truth. And I think what I've been really struck by, particularly with so many of the people that I was in school with studying biomedical sciences or hearing stories from family members in medical school, is that you're not allowed to question anything anymore, anywhere in the scientific field, whether that's about nutrition or vaccine ingredients or different.

[Dr. Joel Gator Warsh]

But especially vaccines.

[Interviewer (Daily Wire Host)]

Especially vaccines. I mean, that's clearly the peak of this. And it's troubling to me because the very scientific method is built upon questioning everything.

[Isabel Brown]

Right.

[Interviewer (Daily Wire Host)]

Going out and asking all the big questions, sourcing all the evidence and data possible, and then arriving at your conclusion, not beginning the experiment with a foregone conclusion in your head. Why do you think with vaccines in particular, we've demonized that questioning period so, so, so intensely?

[Dr. Joel Gator Warsh]

I think that doctors just believe in vaccines so strongly, it's almost become a religion. And then anybody that questions it, it's kind of outside of that. And then you're demonized, you're called an anti vaxxer. And I think that's such an Unfortunate place to be, I mean, I guess for me, going back. So I did all the regular medical training. I went to a wonderful pediatric program in Los Angeles, one of the top ones. And I was very western minded back then. I didn't even really think about vaccines. Right? I mean, you go into training and here are your amazing vaccines, here are the horrible diseases. We used to have them, now we don't have them anymore, here's your schedule, go do it. And that's really all that we're taught. You don't really get into a lot of it. And thankfully I met my wife around that time and she's very holistic minded. Opened up my eyes to a little bit of a different world. And so I started learning integrative medicine, practicing in that way. And integrative medicine, meaning combining holistic practices with regular medicine. I'm not against Western medicine at all, but just I feel like there's a time and a place and we're way too quick to give a medication. But very quickly, when you get into that space, you realize that parents have a lot of questions about vaccines. And I realized really quickly that I did not know the answers to a lot of those questions. And so I had to start reading. And the more that I was reading, the more questions that I had. And that led me just continue learning about vaccines. But also over the last few years, as I think everybody knows, it was so censored, you couldn't talk about it. And that was so frustrating for me because I was answering questions in the office that I could. I didn't feel comfortable talking about anywhere else. I mean, I'd be on shows and podcasts, but you'd have to have a disclaimer like, oh, we can't talk about vaccines because the shows are gonna get work, it's gonna get taken down, which is insane.

[Isabel Brown]

That's crazy.

[Dr. Joel Gator Warsh]

And then Covid happened. I think everybody or many people got really frustrated, me included, and I decided, I have to speak about vaccines, I have to talk about this. I'm not against vaccines. I just think that we should be able to have a discussion about it. And that's what led me to write the book. But before I was even willing to talk about it, I said, I have to get as educated as possible because anything you say with vaccines is obviously so controversial. And if you want to have that balanced middle ground, you have to have education on both sides. And really nothing had that. I mean, you mentioned at the beginning everything is so one sided. You see something that's very cdc, very mainstream, or very anti vax the other side. And no one was ever willing to sit down at the table. And that's what I wanted to do. Not to convince people to do it or not do it, but just to at least be able to have discussions like this, which you can never have before. Until this year, almost nobody was having vaccine conversations unless it was safe and effective. And with the pandemic, I think that that really opened up people's eyes to concerns around vaccines, to feeling like they were lied to about certain things, and then really started questioning everything else. And then we got Secretary Kennedy and I think he's the response to what happened during the pandemic. And now they're. Most people are questioning everything about vaccines. And so we're in a new, complicated place because you have every organization that doesn't even agree with each other. You have the cdc, you have the hhs, you have the American Academy of Pediatrics. You have one doctor, a different doctor, a social media influencer. Everybody's saying something different and then you have all the parents stuck in the middle. What do I do? I just want my kid to be healthy. What do I do? I don't want him to get a disease and die, but I don't want them to get a vaccine and have a bad reaction.

[Interviewer (Daily Wire Host)]

Yeah.

[Dr. Joel Gator Warsh]

So it's a tough place to be, I think, as a new parent right now.

[Isabel Brown]

Back to Dr. Gator in just a second. But first, I don't know if you guys have been craving like your absolute favorite meal meal at your favorite local restaurant a lot lately. We've been trying not to order out so much because it's Lent and that's an easy habit that we have fallen into rather than cooking a delicious meal at home for our families. But luckily our family has gone in a totally different direction thanks to our friends at CookUnity. And when I'm super busy and running around for the podcast and our family, cookunity has made it so, so simple to enjoy my favorite chef crafted dishes without having to fly all over the country, order something via doordash or without the hassle of having to cook it from scratch myself. Cookunity has chef crafted meals that just hit different. Let me tell ya, there is more creativity and love in every single bite. No cooking required. You just heat it up and enjoy a restaurant quality meal right at home. CookUnity is a collective of chefs that are bringing their talent straight to your table. Made in local micro kitchens, not in big factories. I love knowing exactly where my food comes from, especially when it pertains to me feeding that food to my daughter. And local sourcing really matters. It supports the small kitchens and reduces overall food waste. The meals arrive fresh, never frozen, and the packaging is recyclable, it's compostable and it is reusable. Variety is also everything though, because I've never been one for like the big batch meal preps on Sunday where you make the same meal 15 times and then you eat that the whole week long. I like to mix it up with different flavors and ingredients throughout the week. With hundreds of dishes and seven dietary preferences available to you. Vegan, paleo, pescatarian, gluten free and so much more. It is so easy to find what fits with cookunity. Menus actually go up to two weeks ahead, so there's plenty of time to plan and look forward to what's next. My family and I have loved using cookunity. All of their meals have been unbelievably yummy and it takes so much hassle out. At the end of a very, very busy day when my husband's coming in from a long day of work for the government, I'm trudging upstairs. After a lot of hours down here in my home studio in the basement. We're exhausted, but we know we need to eat healthily. You can experience chef quality meals yourself just like we have every week delivered right to your door. And go to cookunity.com Isabel or enter code Isabel before checkout for 50% off your first week. That is 50% off your first week by using code Isabel or going to cookunity.com Isabel let's dive in a little

[Interviewer (Daily Wire Host)]

bit more to your medical education aspect of all of this. I am hearing from so many doctors and other professions in the medical field as well that that surface level education of vaccines good, everything else bad, disease doesn't exist anymore. Now go do it was really the extent of the conversation that they had in their entire four years in medical school and then they were just expected to implement that instantaneously into residency and beyond. I'm finding similar conversations are happening about nutrition and preventative medicine. So, so much underlying that. Why do you think that's happening? Does it have anything to do with pharmaceutical companies becoming pretty big funders and donors to medical schools? Is our medicine really being practiced in reverse thinking pharmaceuticals and treatment first instead of some of this preventative medicine? What's going on there?

[Dr. Joel Gator Warsh]

Well, I think for sure it's all of that. I don't think we realize that we're so biased. I mean I didn't realize, like outside of the system that I was so biased by pharma. I mean, that's the model that we're trained in, right? I mean, pharma pays for the news, pays for medical education, it pays in the journals. They're the biggest funders of all of these organizations. And so when you go to medical school, you're really learning about pharmaceuticals, you're learning about disease, and you're learning about how to treat it. And there's very little discussion about nutrition and exercise and lifestyle factors. And those are the things that I learned when I went outside of the system. I started doing some functional medicine integrative training. And I was like, when you're in the medical hospital, you're like, oh, that's all woo woo stuff. And then you go do it and you're like, what's woo woo about this? This is so basic stuff that I'm not thinking this way. Like, why am I not thinking about what people are doing? Why am I not thinking about what they're eating? Like, of course that's important, but we're just not really taught in. I don't think it's nefarious. I think that's just the way that it is. That's the model that's been set up. And most doctors are very trusting. Certainly doctors are not bad people, especially pediatricians. They want to help kids. But this is what we're taught. And if the CDC for the last 20 years says this vaccine is safe, then you do it. You don't go research it yourself. You don't look into things yourself. I didn't just promoting the schedule to everybody, just like I was taught, because that's what you're taught. You don't have any reason to question. And I think a lot of people think that doctors have nefarious motives. I think that's just what you understand. And nothing's more clear to me than when you talk about vaccines and autism. Because I think that's one of the biggest concerns that parents have. And doctors say, oh, you know, the science is settled, the science is settled, it's been debunked. And then you go look at the research yourself on vaccines and autism, and it's really only about MMR and thimerosal, the mercury ingredient that's not even in there anymore. So there's no way you could ever say that. And any doctor that would look into the actual literature themselves, go back and look at the primary literature would realize that. I mean, I have a master's in Epidemiology, I didn't know any of that. I thought for sure there was a whole bunch of research on it that looked at vaccinated versus unvaccinated kids, and there's none of that. So you can't say that vaccines do cause autism, but you certainly can't say that it's totally, thoroughly been debunked. And I think if we could have honest conversations like that, then the needle might move to a place where more professionals would say, well, I don't think that vaccines cause this, but the science isn't as subtle as I thought. Let's go get more research. Yeah, why don't we want that? Why don't we want that research? Nobody wants kids to have a reaction. I don't want any kid to get measles and get sick, but I also don't want kids to have a vaccine and get a reaction. Both things can be true.

[Interviewer (Daily Wire Host)]

Yeah. That is so telling to me about the process and what we're seeing right now with the backlash to so much of what Secretary Kennedy is working on. I've been so fortunate to go to tons of HHS events over the last few months and interview him a few times on our show. And the silliest things that he'll say, like, eat real food and a steak really isn't as bad for you as we thought it was probably. Or eggs have been pretty demonized by everything we're seeing in the media. People just lose their minds. And certainly the largest backlash we saw was this announcement of changing some of the child vaccine recommendations. I do want to get into that for sure, but I do know he's working very hard on some of these things up front, on the preventative side, especially in education as well. They just announced at the Eat Real Food Food Pyramid event that they're going to be implementing nutrition requirements in American accredited medical schools. Absolutely incredible, because that wasn't mandated before. But I think what I admire so much about Secretary Kennedy is he was willing and able to be one of the only people in this space drowning out all the noise and the hysteria and the people trying to discredit you and freak you out and actually read these studies. Right. He tells beautiful, poignant stories of moms whose entire existence has circled around their children, dealing with so many of these debilitating adverse reactions to vaccines coming to his doorstep over and over and over again and dropping off massive packets full of actual scientific studies. And he's thinking, why aren't doctors reading these things? Why are we not teaching them in medical schools, and by the grace of God, he's in the position that he is right now. You had a little bit of a version of this yourself and just wanting to do a bit more research on your own and break free from some of the institutionalization of this, but get to the primary sources to make sure that you could be informed in writing your incredible book. Between a shot and a Hard Place, how did you know where to start looking? Where did you find some of these studies to read and how much of that ended up going into your book?

[Dr. Joel Gator Warsh]

I think I'm lucky because I have a master's in epidemiology, which is health research, and I didn't even know necessarily at the time when I did it why it would be so useful now. But it is really useful to have an understanding of how to look into the research. I've done literature reviews myself, have published multiple studies on kids and injuries and obesity and exercise. So I have a pretty good understanding of the literature and was able to go through it. But even with looking into vaccines and autism, I was shocked. I couldn't believe what I wasn't finding and I just didn't trust it. Like, I had to read other books. I pretty much read every book there was on vaccines out there that I could just to try to give the most balanced approach to it. And yeah, that really does frustrate me about medicine and certainly everything about Secretary Kennedy, because practitioners, doctors, don't want to listen to anything it has to say, no matter what, whether it's a great recommendation or not. Like, you don't have to agree on everything that he says. No, that's fine. No one agrees with anything that any politician, every politician says. You don't have to agree on every single point. But there are so many things that he's doing that are so great. And you might hate his vaccine policies, you might think he's a complete anti vaxxer, even though I've spoken before. He's not. But you can believe that, fine. But there's so many things that he's doing that are great. You need to sit down at the table, be a part of the good things, support the good things, and then argue the bad things. That's fine. And I hate that my profession is not willing to come to the table. I was listening to the former head of the American Pediatrics talk about the ACIP meetings, the vaccine meetings, and she was saying, well, no, we weren't disinvited from going, but we just didn't want to go. We don't want to go because we just don't think it's useful. And I'm like, you guys have to be there. You have to be at these meetings. Everybody needs to sit in a room. We have to be able to have discussions. And you can totally disagree, but that's the time to push back. Not after you change the schedule. You need to sit down, have debates and decide what is the best, what's the middle ground that we can find to help come to some place that we could have some sort of consensus or some sort of agreement or at least have a discussion on it. If people are not talking to each other, then anything he does, they just say, oh, no, don't listen to it. Yep, that's not helpful because if he's not there in a few years, they're just gonna put it back. Yeah. So we need to start having conversations and we need to decide what is the research that we want to get so that way we can have a better vaccine schedule in five or ten years from now. It's so arrogant to think that we have the very best vaccines, the very best schedule we're ever gonna have in the history of humanity. That's so stupid. Like, we want to always make it better. And if we wanna have a better vaccine schedule in five or 10 years, we have to look at what improvements do we need, what research do we still want, how do we make it safer, which vaccines? It's not 1940. Right. It's a different time now. So maybe we need to prioritize certain vaccines. We don't need to do some of the other ones. Or we can deprioritize some of them. And that's to some degree is what they did. They were trying to prioritize some of the more important vaccines, the things that are more likely to kill you more in the population, like measles and whooping cough, that we see a lot more and not necessarily strongly recommending some of the things that we don't see as much. Yeah, it's totally reasonable to me to at least have that conversation. And you can disagree with the finer details, but that makes sense to reevaluate things now and not just keep adding more forever.

[Isabel Brown]

Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back to grilling Dr.

[Interviewer (Daily Wire Host)]

Gator with all the important questions about

[Isabel Brown]

the childhood vaccine schedule. But in case you may have missed it, we are smack dab in the middle of Lent, people. It is going very quickly, heading steadfast, wholehearted speed towards Holy Week, the most powerful week of the year. And truly my Favorite few days in the entire calendar year. This is our moment to walk with Jesus through his suffering, his death and his resurrection. Do not let it pass you by. Hallow has become my favorite component of my prayer routine. It takes all the guessing and all the stress out of having to sit down at a very, very end of an exhausting day and thinking to myself, what am I possibly going to pray about? I am out of gas in the tank. Hallow reignites my passion, my creativity, and helps lead me in the right direction so I can fig out how best to connect with God in my daily prayer life and making that the most important component of my daily routine. Here's Hallow's challenge for you. Finish Lent strong with more prayer, more intentional fasting, more generosity, and you can start with your prayer life. And it's not too late to join us for pray 40 their lent challenge that has completely transformed my prayer experience this Lent. Download Hallow and commit to something daily. There are thousands of guided prayers, passion meditations and worship tracks that help you actually slow down and and hear God's voice in the middle of a crazy, noisy world. Next, you can fast from what's distracting you. Maybe it's food, but maybe it's social media, constant doom scrolling negativity, gossip or your phone. Remove whatever is blocking a deeper relationship with God in your life. And then the last part of the challenge. Give not just your money, but give people patience, give grace, love and kindness, especially when it's inconvenient or undeserved. That is real Christian charity. Whatever you are carrying this lent, broken relationships, family stress, anxiety, fear, bring it to the cross. You don't have to carry it alone. Jesus died for you personally. Lent is our chance to respond. Download Hallow today, commit to daily prayer and get three months [e-mail] Isabel let's finish this season with purpose.

[Interviewer (Daily Wire Host)]

Yeah. What I loved about their recommendation change too was that they very clearly in big, bold, italicized, underlined letters said if you want to keep doing the old schedule, you have the prerogative to keep doing the old schedule. It's fine. But we have a lot of concerns and we're gonna go start looking into some of this based on really the lack of research that's out there. So as you started this investigative journey and this research journey yourself, especially as someone with a background in research, I think this is important. Were you surprised by a, the studies that were out there about vaccine safety and where some of these parent concerns are coming from? Or, and maybe and or B The lack of research that's out there on this. And what can you tell us about that?

[Dr. Joel Gator Warsh]

I was most surprised about the lack of research, especially when it comes to looking at vaccinated versus unvaccinated kids. I really thought there was a lot more research on that. And if you really want to have a good understanding of long term complications, then you need to follow kids for a long time. And the reality is most of the studies are pretty short term and are retrospectives looking back in time. And it's a different world now. People were very worried about infectious disease a long time ago. We don't see as many of these diseases anymore. They could still certainly cause cause serious complications, but they're just not as frequent. What we're seeing now a ton is chronic disease. We're seeing asthma, allergies, autoimmune conditions, autism. Everything is skyrocketing all at once. And so it's not unreasonable to say are vaccines related to that in any way? And the only way you can know that is to actually study it. And the vast majority of the research never looks at kids for long enough or only looks back in time, doesn't ever follow kids that are vaccinated versus unvaccinated. To actually ask the question, if my kid's unvaccinated, are they gonna have fewer colds, fewer ear infections, fewer cases of asthma, fewer cases of autoimmune conditions like that is an important question. Cause again, if there is an ingredient or something that we're doing in vaccines that is increasing asthma, let's just say, I don't know, whatever ingredient, aluminum is increasing the risk of asthma by 10 times, wouldn't we want to know that? Because then we wouldn't say, oh, vaccines are all bad. We would say, well, maybe there's an ingredient we can put in there that will work just as well, but wouldn't have those side effects and we could decrease the risk for chronic disease. So that's what we want to know. Or maybe we'll do the studies, we'll look at vaccinated versus unvaccinated kids. We'll follow them forward for 10 years. There's going to be no difference in the groups. And that's going to be the kind of research that's going to make parents comfortable to get vaccines. Then they're going to say there's no difference between autism and the two groups. Okay? Parents will feel more comfortable to do the vaccines. And if they then we need to change something. Either way, we shouldn't be afraid of science, we should be doing that research. And I think that's what Secretary Kennedy is saying. He wants that research to be done. And he knows as well as people that have looked into it that those kinds of studies haven't been done. Other studies have been done. There's certainly some safety studies, there's certainly things that have been looked at, but not the best kind of research we can do. And when we have this chronic disease epidemic, I think our kids deserve that best kind of research.

[Interviewer (Daily Wire Host)]

You know, it's interesting to me that one of the immediate pieces of backlash against this was about one of the first vaccines you're supposed to give your kid. And I've had countless conversations with my friends who are all having babies at the exact same time.

[Dr. Joel Gator Warsh]

Are you guys doing this?

[Interviewer (Daily Wire Host)]

Are you guys doing this? It's like kind of the secret trading conversation that you have behind the scenes. And that's related to hepatitis B. That was the first major announcement from the CDC on this new recommendation schedule for infants and vaccines that no longer was it going to be recommended that hepatitis B be given at birth for babies. For those who might not know, or

[Isabel Brown]

maybe you don't have a baby right now.

[Interviewer (Daily Wire Host)]

Typically over the last several years, the recommendation has been essentially within the first few hours of your baby's life, they are supposed to receive an injection against hepatitis B. That's the recommended scientific proof, the one that you're just supposed to follow. And that never sat very well with me, to be honest. They tested me for hep B immediately at the beginning of my pregnancy. I was negative. I'm very happily married to my husband. I'm not sleeping with anyone else throughout my pregnancy. So it's unlikely I'm going to contract an STD from anyone else. And by the time my daughter was born, of course, she wasn't being exposed to hepatitis B. But the reasons they were coming up for this stuff was absolutely astounding. What if on the way home from the hospital you get in a car crash and your baby is bleeding and some person pulls over on the side of the road whose hepatitis positive and they're also bleeding and their blood, I mean, it's like. It's crazy. It's absolutely insane to me. So we politely declined, and most of our friends did as well. And they actually were shockingly good. At our hospital, all they asked for was a signature on a piece of paper. They never questioned it. But I know several of my friends who nearly had CPS called on them because they were politely declining this vaccine for a sexually transmitted disease for their two hour Old infant. Where did that come from? Why is this so controversial in particular? And why do you think hospitals have been really damning parents for just wanting to ask all the right questions about it, let alone decline?

[Dr. Joel Gator Warsh]

Yeah, I. I feel so bad for those families. I mean, child protective services should never be called for a recommended vaccine. It's not a required vaccine. It's not a forced vaccine. It's something that was recommended. And yet these are the kind of scenarios that you hear. Hospitals have their protocols, and they follow them. And certainly there are some people that are a little more dogmatic about it than others. And ultimately, it's really, really unfortunate that would happen to somebody, but it was. And especially when it comes to hepatitis B, it never made sense to me either. I mean, I understand that you could technically get hepatitis B. Certainly, if. If the mom has hepatitis B, then it makes perfect sense. You want to give it to the baby. There's a huge risk to the baby, and there's a high chance they're gonna get cancer or die. So that's a real risk. That's called informed consent. You're explaining the risks. And almost everybody would get that vaccine for their baby if they had it. But if you don't have it, we know what the risks are, and they're very low. It's like one in a million to one in seven million. Somewhere in that range that a baby could theoretically get hepatitis B. Yes, it is possible. They could have a wild baby party. Probably not. Right? It's possible they could fall on a needle, but probably not. Especially in the first couple months, if they're not walking, could somebody come and bleed on them? Sure. Could one of the tests be wrong? Yes. So these are all possible. But if you say to somebody, look, you have a one in a million chance for your baby to get hepatitis B, and you understand that risk and you're totally comfortable with it. There are a lot of other things that have risk. Just probably driving home in the car is much more risky than you getting hepatitis B. So a vaccine is not without risk. And you're saying, I'm gonna give my baby a vaccine on the first day of life when they just came out for something that's a one in a million risk. That doesn't make a lot of sense to most parents. Almost all the parents that I take care of chose to decline that. That's by far the most declined vaccine. And you're putting this relationship, this doctor patient relationship, already in some sort of adversarial position from day one doing something that I would think. I think most parents don't think makes a lot of sense. A lot of people that totally believe in vaccines didn't believe in that recommendation. And many, many countries don't do it.

[Interviewer (Daily Wire Host)]

Yeah, I'm finding that for sure.

[Dr. Joel Gator Warsh]

So it's not that no countries do it. Some do, but the vast majority don't recommend it unless mom has hepatitis B. And that's what makes sense to me. There shouldn't be anything that controversial about it. If you want to get it, you want to give it to your baby on the first day, fine, you still can. But to recommend it to someone who's negative, again, we have to weigh the pros and the cons. It's not benign. There are risks to everything. And you can get a fever, you could get a seizure, you could get anaphylaxis, you could die from a vaccine. It's possible. And that's just what we know and we don't totally understand, I think, what vaccines do to the body long term. So you also have all of that unknown for something with a one in a million risk. It doesn't make sense to me.

[Interviewer (Daily Wire Host)]

Why was it hep B? I mean, you may or may not know the answer to this, but why that specific vaccine within two hours of birth versus measles or mumps or polio or any of the other scary things?

[Dr. Joel Gator Warsh]

There's a lot of different theories on that. But because it's a bloodborne illness, technically, if mom was to have it, then you can pass it on to your baby. So if you're getting that vaccine, it can prevent it. And you're preventing that one case where maybe they didn't test the mom, they forgot to test the mom, they got the test wrong. Maybe you had hepatitis B or you just contracted after you got testing. So theoretically you're preventing that one case in a million where you didn't test or the test was wrong. So that's why.

[Interviewer (Daily Wire Host)]

Can you walk me through some of these other more controversial vaccines? I know a lot of parents have questions about the combination vaccines. MMR comes to mind, certain ingredients that tended to be pretty pervasive in all vaccines that now we're taking out under the leadership of Secretary Kennedy, which is fantastic. What are the big, the big questions that you are getting from your patients and where is some of this concern coming from?

[Dr. Joel Gator Warsh]

I think the biggest concern ingredients are the metals, so mercury and aluminum. Thankfully, thimerosal has been taken out of vaccines. It was mostly taken out of vaccines except for the multi dose flu vaccine, but now it's out of all vaccines, it was never technically proven to cause an issue. But there's so much concern around mercury that I don't think, again, it's unreasonable to have precaution. If we have vaccines that don't have it in it, then I think that's totally reasonable to not include those vaccines. Aluminum is similar. There's a lot of concern around aluminum these days. It's not been proven to cause an issue yet. But we said the same thing about lead 100 years ago, right? We were like, ah, lead's totally fine. Let's put it in gas, let's put it in paint, we can lick it. It's totally fine. And then, you know, then, oh, it's just a little bit is okay. And then now, no, no, you shouldn't have any, any lead in the house. We don't want any, any lead around. Similar thing happened with mercury. I mean, it's amazing. You go back 20 years, not that long ago, and people were sitting in a room and like, hey, wait a minute, there's more mercury in vaccines than we recommend in food. Is that okay? Like, you would think people thought about this when they put it in a vaccine, but you go back 50 years, 100 years, they didn't do research like we do it now. They weren't doing the safety testing like we did now. And it's a preservative and it helps make sure that there isn't bacteria, virus, fungus growing in the vaccine. So they used it. It worked very well. But the concern is you're injecting mercury. We're telling everyone you shouldn't have it in fish and you should eat it. So is it okay to inject into your kids? And so they started looking into it. It wasn't totally proven to cause an issue, but they decided to take it out. And then that's still controversial. Now it's like, oh, well, it's not proven to be a problem. Do you need to prove that mercury is a problem injecting into people? If we have something else that we don't need to use it.

[Interviewer (Daily Wire Host)]

It's like this concept of there may not be substantive proof that it causes a problem, but there certainly isn't proof that it doesn't cause a problem.

[Dr. Joel Gator Warsh]

Right. And if we have another option, then why do we need it? We don't need to inject mercury if we have other vaccines that don't have it. So I just think it's very logical to be that there could potentially be a problem for some people. And that's the Same argument you have with aluminum. Oh, it's just a very small amount. It's totally fine. We eat more every day. That's true. We do eat aluminum. There's aluminum in food, there's aluminum in the environment. But it's not the same thing to inject something as it is to eat it. And even still, everybody's different. And maybe that very small amount of aluminum is a problem for some people. And maybe we could figure out what are the genetics, what's the reason why certain kids have a problem with that ingredient or whatever other ingredient. Some people walk by a peanut and have anaphylaxis. It's a very small amount, but they still do. So maybe for aluminum it's the same thing, I don't know. I can't call it any specific ingredient because we'd have to study it. We have to assume that vaccines can cause problems, to study them for safety in the way that we would want them to be studied to even see if we could figure that out. And that is not anti science, that is science. I'm not against studying it. I'm totally fine if it turns out to be that every single ingredient, every single vaccine is fine. I want kids to be healthy. I don't care if they get a thousand vaccines or zero vaccines. I want them to be the healthiest possible. And we're never gonna get there unless we can have these kind of conversations openly and honestly. And I hope doctors will do that too. And I hope parents will push back and what we're seeing. And I think that's making a huge difference. Parents are making a huge difference. I don't think they realize it. I'm in, you know, a bunch of Facebook doctor groups in the background lurking to reading, you know, what kind of things they're posting. And I don't think parents realize how much they're affecting practices. Doctors don't know what to do right now because so many people are pushing back. So many people are asking questions. Many practices are saying, hey, do we need to change our policies? Because so many people are leaving our practice because they don't want to vaccinate on schedule. And we have this policy like, are we going to run out of patients? Parents can actually make a change in the system by pushing back.

[Isabel Brown]

And they are back to it in a second. But first, you guys may be trying to start your own business right now. 62% of Gen Z already has started our own businesses. And in the midst of all of that, you're probably freaking out about how much paperwork there is how confusing the taxes, tax structure is, all of the things you have to fill out with the government. Believe me, I've been there. It is the easiest turn off right away when you are trying to embrace your entrepreneurship era and they put up a million roadblocks in the process. But I'm so glad that I took the leap and you can too. Thanks to our friends at Shopify. Shopify is the commerce platform that is powering millions of businesses around the world and 10% of all E commerce in the United States, including our very own daily wire shop. Getting started is incredibly easy. They have hundreds of ready to use templates that help you build a beautiful online store that can match your brand's existing style. Shopify is also packed with helpful AI tools that write your product descriptions. They can put headlines on different pages of your website. They can even enhance your product photography so that you can spend all of your time accelerating your efficiency and creativity. Whether you're uploading new products or improving your existing ones. If you need to get the word out, the fact that you even have a business in the first place, Shopify helps you find your new customers with easy to run email and social media campaigns, making it feel like you have a whole marketing team behind you, even if you're just a team of one like I was for so many years. What's more is you can tackle all of those important tasks in one place, from inventory to payments to analytics without juggling multiple websites or platforms. And if you ever get stuck, their award winning 24. 7 customer support is always around to help. Plus that iconic purple shop pay button isn't just recognizable, it's the best converting checkout on the planet, which means fewer abandoned cars and more sales for you. It's time to turn those what ifs into with Shopify today. You can sign up for your $1 per month trial today at shopify.com isabelle go to shopify.com isabel so beyond just

[Interviewer (Daily Wire Host)]

ingredients then, as parents are navigating this and you're seeing this certainly in your own practice, but just across the board and all of these physicians talking about this, what vaccines in particular beyond Hep B and the specific ingredients are parents namely concerned about?

[Dr. Joel Gator Warsh]

Well, number one I think would be the COVID vaccine. There's still a lot of concerns around that.

[Interviewer (Daily Wire Host)]

Sometimes I forget we're still dealing with that.

[Dr. Joel Gator Warsh]

To be honest with you, it's still technically recommended, right? So it's not as recommended for little kids anymore, but that was kind of still newer. I mean as of even just a few Months ago, it was still recommended for kids, but very few people were doing it. So almost everybody, almost every parent agreed that they didn't want it for their kids. They were not overly concerned with COVID so they stopped doing it. But it's still technically out there. So that, I think is probably the biggest one, and then the MMR would probably be the next, just because there's all this concern on MMR and autism. So I think that's maybe the next biggest one.

[Interviewer (Daily Wire Host)]

What's the reasoning behind that? Just that it's like three vaccines wrapped into one, essentially.

[Dr. Joel Gator Warsh]

I don't think it's that. I think that that was. So if you go back about 20 years, that was a vaccine that was potentially implicated in the original concerns around autism. So Andrew Wakefield was really the first person that kind of brought that out into the mainstream. He was concerned that maybe measles was related to autism in some way. So that has carried through since. And that's been, I think, the concern around parents, especially because you generally notice the symptoms of autism around one and you get the MMR around one. So it may be just correlation, it may be the timing. I'm not necessarily convinced that that vaccine is any more concerning than the other vaccines, but that's the one I think parents have the most concern because there's the most discussion on it.

[Interviewer (Daily Wire Host)]

As a physician and being so involved in this conversation now online, how much do you think Covid played a role in declining public trust in science? And this concept of science being an unquestionable immovable entity. I think of Dr. Fauci saying, I am the science. Right. I mean, it's literally something out of Star Wars. It's crazy, but that never used to be the case, at least not that I remember when I was studying my master's degree in biomedical sciences the year, the day that Covid started. Right. I don't remember it being this intense authoritarian dictatorship.

[Dr. Joel Gator Warsh]

It wasn't like it is now. It's certainly over the last few years, if you look at the polls, people's trust in medicine was going down. Doctors were one of the most trusted professions a long time ago. One of the least trusted professions. Now, Covid, I think, threw gasoline on a fire that was already brewing. But we're now at a point where people don't trust healthcare at all. When we went through the pandemic, you had safe and effective told to us over and over, over again. It was a slogan. And people realized that made no sense. That was one of the first things that just really made me have to think about things. I was like, wait a minute, this is new. How could you say that it's safe? You could say, based on the research that we have so far, it seems like it reduces the risk of death and serious disease. And we haven't found any major concerns for safety yet. But it's only been two months, so we don't know. We don't know what it's going to be long term, but we recommend it based on what we've seen so far. That's honest. That would totally be fine. But they said it was safe and effective and it was going to prevent transmission. They didn't know that and that couldn't possibly be true. We don't have vaccines that stop transmission for those kind of respiratory viruses. And we definitely didn't know that it was safe. And then they said, oh, if you get sick, we still need to get vaccines. And we also know that with every disease really out there, if you get the disease and you don't die, then you have great immunity. So there's no real reason to need a vaccine. Certainly in the short term, you should have better immunity. And they knew that, but they lied about it. And they just wanted to push for everybody to get vaccines and that. I think most people realized that and then they started to question it or they got the vaccine, they were told it's safe, they had their own reaction, or they knew someone that had a reaction and then they said, wait a minute, this is what I'm seeing with this vaccine. What about all the rest of the vaccines? And now they just trust nothing. Yeah. And that's what I'm seeing in the practice now. People don't trust medicine at all or public health, certainly.

[Interviewer (Daily Wire Host)]

Do you think that was coming from a small group of people, like, where was the get a vaccine or else mentality coming from to play the tinfoil hat game a bit? I think my viewers are probably smart enough to make those connections between the dots themselves. But for a larger audience who might be watching this out of curiosity, where does big Pharma play into all of that? There's not a lot of regulations in Washington, D.C. to prevent crossover between big Pharma and the regulatory organizations. Like the same way we do protect that for the military industrial complex. That's never talked about, but certainly is an underlying factor here.

[Dr. Joel Gator Warsh]

Yeah, I mean, there are probably many different groups that had played a part in it, but certainly the public health individuals at the top are very, very pro vaccine. They have been for a very long time. And so any opportunity to Push vaccines and push that narrative is something that's really important to them. But obviously pharma is involved. I mean, this is a product that has immunity, can't sue them. So they have every reason to try to do everything they can to get a vaccine on the market that everyone's gonna take because you can't sue them. So that doesn't mean that all vaccines are necessarily bad or everything's nefarious. But if you're a business, what are you gonna do? Yeah, obviously you're gonna try to make your product look the best possible and show the least amount of side effects possible, get your product on the market, and then if you do find a problem later, well, you can't be sued. That's not the way that everything else works in America. Everything else, we have checks and balances. You can sue if there's a problem. We don't have that with vaccines. So there are these huge companies that have unlimited money that can get behind a product. And once they had Covid happening and they had people pushing for a vaccine, this was the perfect opportunity to get this technology out and to push anyone that's going to promote that product to get that out to as many people as possible. I'm sure some part of it's nefarious. Probably a lot of it's just people trying to do good in a new, in a new pandemic, not knowing what's going on, thinking this could be helpful. And maybe it was helpful for some people at the beginning, but ultimately you have a system that pushes vaccines and not safety of vaccines. And there's no balance right now. Secretary Kennedy maybe is bringing a little bit back, but a lot of pushback because again, vaccines are a religion. It's something that's so ingrained, is the best thing ever. And anyone that talks about it in a negative way, anyone that questions it at all, they're an anti vaxxer. Crazy kook. And since I get told all the time, it's like, oh, I'm just, I'm killing kids by talking about this stuff and get called anti vaxxer. Like, ask the people who got vaccines in my office this week if I'm an anti vaxxer, like, I'm not against vaccines, but you have to be able to talk about it. We have to be able to talk about safe vaccines, the safest vaccines possible. And if you can't have those discussions, then what are we doing? What part of that is science on

[Interviewer (Daily Wire Host)]

this immunity shield and liability shield conversation with these, immunity being the operative word. Here from these vaccine manufacturers not being able to be sued when things do go wrong. Do you think this is something parents are paying a lot more attention to now? Are you getting questions about it from a clinical perspective?

[Dr. Joel Gator Warsh]

I don't think most people know about it, honestly. I think maybe a little bit more now because it's being talked about. But why would you know that? I mean, I didn't know it. Yeah, he's a doctor. Like, I certainly didn't know until I started researching it. It's not something that you would think about. You don't realize that that product is different than every other product on the market. And maybe people are hearing about it these days because some people are talking about it, but I don't think it's mainstream knowledge. Pharma is certainly not, you know, putting a poster saying, like, oh, you can't sue us. They're not doing that.

[Interviewer (Daily Wire Host)]

How about these conversations happening in the doctor world? I know you're part of some lurking Facebook groups that you love seeing other people post in, but I've also noticed the rise of the influencer doctor, so to speak. For better or worse. My sister, who's in medical school, hates this, by the way. She hates the influencer doctor thing, and I understand why. I think a lot of people are giving half in, half out advice for clicks and podcast downloads and all of that, and that's very dangerous, certainly. But I do think there's a lot of value in physicians using this huge platform to speak directly to people and hopefully lead people towards objective truth as well. That said, I'm watching kind of a split happening in the influencer doctor world, and I'm so curious to get your take on this that some physicians are just so bought into all of the prescribed talking points.

[Isabel Brown]

Right.

[Interviewer (Daily Wire Host)]

This became so, so clear during COVID especially. And anyone who remotely said, hey, maybe we should just ask a question, was essentially kicked off the Internet. You were eviscerated. You were threatened to have your medical license to practice medicine taken away. You were completely discredited by the scientific community as a crazy witch doctor who clearly didn't have any sort of formal education in Western medicine. What's your take on people like, I don't know, Dr. Mike with his big podcast, for example.

[Dr. Joel Gator Warsh]

Yeah, well, on the greater sense, I mean, I think it's important that doctors start to get involved in social media. I. I never did. Right. I was super against it only because my wife said, oh, you should probably start doing it. Did I even start several years ago? Because it's not something you're trained in. It's not something you think about. And you're not going into medicine to go on social media to talk about things. But the reality of the world is that's where people are learning their information from. And there are a lot of people out there that don't give the best information. And so especially when it comes to health, people who are educated and whether it's doctors or nutritionists or whatever should be giving information about that. And some of those individuals should have big platforms so they can get that information out. So I don't have any problem with people going to social media. I even think that doctors are terrible at it and they should really work together to figure out who are the good people on social media so they can work together to kind of promote those things and not promote an agenda per se, but just promote people to actually have conversations and share research and science in interesting ways. So I don't have a problem with that, but I do have a problem with the teams like you mentioned. It does seem like for all the social media because of the way the algorithms work, you really get this division and you get the people that are very much extreme on both sides. I think there's kind of three teams. I think you have the very, very pro science, very, very pro mainstream, very pro vaccine doctors on social media. Then you have the very anti vaccine, very loud Covid vaccines are the worst. Vaccines are the worst. You should never get one. And then there are some that are in the middle. But it's harder to get likes and clicks in the middle. It just is. So. But it's not impossible. I mean, I've had a lot of success being in the middle, I think, and it's surprising to see that people really like it too. So I think you can be honest and kind of play on both teams and just share things. And that can also be successful too. And I think it's better because you shouldn't just play for team cdc. Yeah, right. Like that doesn't make any sense. You should be honest because you need to have those checks and balances and discussions and you can be very pro maha and you could not be for, you know, I don't know, glyphosate, community, whatever. Like that's fine, right? You could, you could be both things and you could be passionate about different topics and not everybody has to agree on everything for whatever reason in social media. It feels like people have to like be on a team and then agree with everything that that team says and, or else, you know, oh, I disagree with you. I'm not. I'm not gonna follow you anymore.

[Isabel Brown]

I have truly lost so much sleep this last year over issues like how best to navigate the vaccine schedule for my daughter and make sure I am the most loving and caring parent to protect her as possible during her first year of life. And as someone who doesn't get a lot of sleep anyway, as a new parent, I have come to discover that sleep is one of the most underrated parts of your health routine. If you're not actually resting at night, it can be a lot harder to show up with energy for your family, for your work, and for the fights that matter. For a long time I was tossing and turning, waking up hot and uncomfortable in the very few limited hours that I was sleeping at night and feeling a whole lot more drained in the morning than I should have been. And that's exactly why my husband and I made the intentional switch to a Helix mattress a few months ago. And I am genuinely obsessed. Helix has a sleep quiz that matches you to the right mattress based on how you sleep, your position, your firmness, preferences, all of it, so that you're not just guessing and hoping it works out later on. It's super comfortable, it keeps me very cool at night, which really matters. And I've noticed deeper, more consistent sleep that makes it so much easier to take on a busy, crazy day. My husband loves our Helix mattress and so does our daughter, who ends up up sandwiched between us a lot more often than we'd like to at 4 in the morning. But it's been such a game changer for our family sleep that we are now switching Isla as soon as she's ready for it to a kids Helix mattress as well. We will never go back to another brand ever, ever again. In the Belcher household, Helix is an award winning mattress band reviewed by places like Forbes and Wired and they ship right to your door in the United States with free shipping, a 120 night sleep trial and a limited lifetime warranty so that you can try it completely risk free. If you're waking up tired, sore or just not feeling like yourself, it's probably time to finally upgrade your mattress. You've been putting it off way too long. Go to helix sleep.com isabel for 27 off site wide that's helixsleep.com isabel for 27 off Site wide and make sure you enter our show name the Isabel Brown show after checkout so that they know we sent you last time. That's helixsleep.com Isabel I don't even think

[Interviewer (Daily Wire Host)]

a lot of that is nefarious and how it begins. I think people are just so hungry for answers and guidance and something to a anchor them in this world where everything is subjective and even truth itself doesn't have an anchor anymore. I mean, everything has become debatable. And so it's natural that algorithms will push us into this tribalism where all of a sudden you kind of like what somebody says and naturally then you have to agree with every single thing they've ever said, or you're evil, or you're a bad person or stupid. I'm a huge believer in social media for that exact purpose that you're saying, because without it, we've really only been fed one narrative throughout the last several decades in media, especially when it comes to science and health. And truly, I think it's by the grace of God and social media that we navigated Covid the way that we did in such an unprecedented time in human history, where now we're finding out on the other side. So so much of the underlying questions that people had and concerns that people had were completely valid at that time. You just weren't allowed to say it out loud except on the few, few quarters of social media. And that totally transformed free speech as we know it. Certainly Elon Musk wouldn't have purchased X if it wasn't.

[Dr. Joel Gator Warsh]

It's a big turning point.

[Interviewer (Daily Wire Host)]

Many people in alternative media, like here at the Daily Wire, wouldn't have the platforms that they do without the ability to just speak freely during that time. And everyone's starting to question everything. Your approach that you've taken has been a total breath of fresh air in this space. And what I love about the content that you make from a physician's perspective is it's really just about informed consent, especially when it comes to parents over the healthcare of their children. It is your ultimate responsibility as mom and dad, not as a physician, not as a teacher, not as a bureaucrat or a politician, but as mom and dad of that child. To safeguard their health, to take care of their innocence, to protect them from the bad things in the world. What has been the response to so many of your posts from other physicians and medical experts, and mostly importantly from parents?

[Dr. Joel Gator Warsh]

It's mostly been positive. I mean, I thought when I was gonna do this book that I was gonna get so much hate. I mean, certainly, you know, if you think back just a few years, I started writing this during the time with all the censorship. So I didn't know if I was gonna lose my license. I didn't know if my all my platforms are going to be gone. But when it came out, things were different because Secretary Kennedy was just starting to work in the hhs. And it's been amazing to see how positive things have been. Obviously, I get a little bit of hate every now and again, but not that much, even from doctors. Most doctors, if they don't just listen to a clip, but they listen to, like, a podcast or a show or a little bit longer, they're pretty positive. They're like, you know, we weren't sure at first, but what you're saying makes sense. Or they want to understand what concerns parents have, because a lot of doctors are actually interested to learn, and they want to do what's best for their patients, and they want to understand why people are hesitant about vaccines or why they're hesitant about certain things. And sometimes with social media, it gets so extreme that turns them off. And I hope that with a balanced approach, that's really helpful for them. And I didn't answer your question about Dr. Mike, so I think, you know, just going back to that, I mean, I don't hate him. I think people always want me to hate him. I don't hate him. I think that he is a very good communicator and he is very brave. He's done some things I have not seen many doctors do in terms of getting in rooms with a lot of people and taking a lot of heat from individuals. He certainly plays for one team. There's no question about it. He's, I think, a little bit biased towards the mainstream narrative, but that's what he does. But ultimately, I think, at least from a very positive sense, he's open to having conversations. Sometimes he's a little bit biased, but he'll at least have some of the tougher conversations with other people, which I think is important. And, you know, I don't agree with him on some things, but I certainly agree with him on many things. And I think if more doctors were like that, we'd be in a much better place. He's kind of over here. You know, I'm over here, but neither one of us is out here. Right. I would say he's more in the middle. He's not like, so left leading. Like, he's on every talking point, or at least he's open to talking to people that have different opinions. And I think if more platforms were like that and more people are like that, we'd be in a very different place. It's very weird to me to be on very right Leaning things like it's fine, I don't have any problem, I'm happy to be anywhere right. But there's no reason why I should be invited onto more right leaning shows and not left leaning shows too. Like it's really hard to get onto left leaning things.

[Isabel Brown]

It's weird when you're pitching it or

[Interviewer (Daily Wire Host)]

are you getting any invites at all?

[Dr. Joel Gator Warsh]

No, I know rarely, like very rarely from, from anything that I would consider more left. I grew up in Canada, I live in California. So if anyone should be left leaning, it should be right, I guess. And I've been invited on things like Charlie Kirk show and this platform and many others and it tends to be more right leaning shows.

[Isabel Brown]

That's interesting to me.

[Interviewer (Daily Wire Host)]

Let's unpack that for a minute. Because when I was growing up in Colorado, which I get it, being surrounded by all it, this was not a conversation conservatives were having. The really crunchy granola left wing, like radical hippie left wing moms were the only people having conversations about vaccine safety and any sort of alternative schedule. When I was growing up. No one ever even questioned it outside of all of that.

[Isabel Brown]

I think more largely than vaccines.

[Interviewer (Daily Wire Host)]

The entire MAHA movement now is considered to be right wing. If you eat organic food and you don't to want food dyes and your kids snacks after school and you generally want a more holistic and preventative health approach. Used to be left leaning. Now it's very right wing coded. They would probably tell you it's extremist Nazi right wing coded in the media today. Why did that happen?

[Dr. Joel Gator Warsh]

I have no idea. It's the weirdest thing. I think it's because of Secretary Kennedy. I think people, there were so many people that are in the middle, I think and are not necessarily political in any way when it comes to health. But they want their kids to be healthy. They're seeing what's going on. They're seeing this, this health disaster, chronic disease epidemic. And for the first time ever, they heard somebody talking about it and actually caring about it in politics. And that led a lot of people to follow him and support him and the right supported him and they kind of left health on the table, which, I mean they left left health on the table, which is crazy. Like that's something that I would say historically has been more, more crunchy moms, more liberal, like you know, Berkeley, you know Berkeley Bobs or whatever it is. And that was weird to me. So I think people have followed it to that side and now because we're so extreme today, it's like yeah, just

[Interviewer (Daily Wire Host)]

if there's any connotation with a Trump administration or because anyone on the right wing is interested in this, then all of a sudden you have to throw the baby out with the bath.

[Dr. Joel Gator Warsh]

Yeah. And I know so many people that are in the Maha movement. I mean, I was at the, maybe the beginnings of some of it with the Kellogg rally. I was there with Vonni speaking. And a lot of people there were very left leaning up until a year ago or two. And they're sort of, maybe they're just like in the middle or not that political. But many, many people are still in the middle and still up for grabs. And at the end of the day, what really bothers me is it's not left versus right when it comes to health. There are many political things you can deal with, but ultimately health is parents against big corporations. And until the left and the right come together on health issues, we're never going to get anywhere. And these influencers, whether it's doctors, whether it's nutritious, whoever it is, that are so one sided and anti Maha or Maha, people that are anti their side, we all have to work together. Health is not going to get better by fighting each other. We're going to have to team up to say, look, big corporations are a problem and we have to figure out ways to change the system, change our food system, not make sure they have immunity when it comes to vaccines. Whatever the issue is, it's not us against each other like we're fighting pro vaccine, anti vaccine. It's us against a corporation when it's food. It's like people are fighting about glyphosate and what we should do and how we should do it. It's like, no, no, no, we need to build regenerative farms. We need to do that together. That's not a right or a left issue. That's kids and health. And I think people have missed that thus far. And maybe things will come back a little bit more to the middle and maybe it'll be a little bit less right wing when it comes to Maha. And I'm seeing that happen like you're seeing a lot of fracturing right now, which is unfortunate.

[Interviewer (Daily Wire Host)]

Oh, I think these are, I think the media treats these as 50, 50 issues right down the center of the country. In reality, I think these are 9010 issues and people know how they feel about it. We're just pretty quiet about it because we don't want any sort of backlash or to be called this horrible name or be associated with a party that you don't necessarily agree with, but like, we saw such a dramatic transformation in our country in a very short period of time when it comes to things like child gender transition. You saw a sweeping change across the country in the last two years, to the point now that you're starting to see all of the lawsuits be set up for detransitioner children and young adults. First successful lawsuit just came through with a huge payout to this beautiful young woman. And I spoke with Chloe Cole yesterday that she has a court date set for her first lawsuit, which is very exciting and I'm excited to see where that goes. That is no longer a right versus left issue. Virtually every developed country in the world is starting to say, yeah, oops, we went too far, sorry. Let's figure out where the actual evidence is or lack thereof, and kind of go from there. And in America in particular, I'm watching politicians on one side of the aisle, I'm watching the media on one side of the aisle scream their heads off. But that is not reflective of where the average person in America is. And so I do think there's a similar pathway that can be taken with understanding the vaccine schedule, particularly for kids, and just understanding vaccines at large. Fighting against immunity for these vaccine manufacturers and big pharma companies and just fighting for informed consent. If we can drown out some of the loudest noise there and just be normal people, ask the right question.

[Dr. Joel Gator Warsh]

If there's anything that I want, it's really just informed consent. It's just not forcing people to do anything. I think if we could get being forced to get a vaccine off the table for school or anywhere in the country, then the temperature would decrease a lot and we could focus back on just making the products as safe and efficacious as possible. But right now, the fight has to be on freedom of choice. And that's where I think a lot of people really are digging their heels in because there's a push to force vaccines. I mean, we saw that with COVID certain states you're required to do it for school, but many states don't have that. And they're not falling apart. The kids are not all getting sick. I mean, yes, you can get an illness if you're not vaccinated for that illness. That is possible. You can still get it if you're vaccinated too, but it's probably, you know, less likely if you're, if you're vaccinated. But the states are doing fine. Many countries are doing fine. Most people get vaccines without being forced. So for those that don't want it or have a reason why they feel like their kids shouldn't get it, maybe they have conditions in their family. Maybe they had a bad reaction. Nobody should be forced to do it. Let's take that temperature down. I think if we did that, then we would be able to move forward together and no one would feel like they needed to be forced to do anything. And then we would be in a much better place in a few years. So hopefully that's where we can go. And that's what I'm pushing for, is just not to have force when that's

[Interviewer (Daily Wire Host)]

what you fight for every single day in your content and importantly in your book, that I am so, so grateful that it's putting parents back in the driver's seat of this conversation and having this informed consent to make the right decisions that work the best for their family. For those that haven't read it yet, what can people expect in your book and where can they pick up copies?

[Dr. Joel Gator Warsh]

So the book Between a Shot and a Hard Place. I mean, you can find it anywhere books are sold or you can get it Amazon or Dr. Joel Gator is my Instagram. In the book. I really try to give the most balanced perspective, I think that's been in a book thus far. When it comes to vaccines. You're going to get a background history on vaccines. You're going to get a background on the different diseases who understand what they are, how serious they are, how common they are. And then we go through all the fun stuff, all the questions, all the concerns. Autism, chronic disease, what do we know, what do we don't know? And it's not just CDC perspective. You get what Paul Offit said, very pro vaccine, right beside what someone like Secretary Kennedy or somebody else said. So you can kind of weigh both sides and have an understanding of why some people might be concerned, but why other people might say, oh, you should do this. So you get that kind of balanced approach, which I think has been very helpful for parents because that gives them some sort of base to start to be educated on the topic and ask better questions.

[Interviewer (Daily Wire Host)]

Yeah. In our last few minutes, I know we have a lot of young families who watch the show and lots of

[Isabel Brown]

people who are just around the corner

[Interviewer (Daily Wire Host)]

from that new milestone in their life beyond just sourcing a great pediatrician, which is hard enough in itself if you were to give just a very basic blueprint for a young family who's having their first baby very, very soon, on what are the first steps they need to take in becoming Informed in their consent on this and in protecting their kids.

[Dr. Joel Gator Warsh]

What would you say for becoming informed? I think you got to read multiple sources. I think it's really sad that we need to get so educated on this because we can't necessarily trust our societies or even necessarily the first doctor that you go to. So I do think it's important to be educated to read something that's very pro vaccine CDC guide type thing and then something that maybe discusses alternative questions. And that way you can see both sides so you can start to form your opinion on why there are some concerns around it. You can certainly read CDC websites and other websites like that, but you're only going to get one perspective and understanding that it's not woo woo to ask questions. I think so many parents feel like they're the only one or they're the crazy one. And that's not true. People are questioning vaccines. Most people have concerns now and they're asking more questions. And that doesn't mean that people are not necessarily going to do it, but they at least have concerns around vaccines. And so if you have questions, that doesn't make you a bad parent, that makes you a good parent. If you're injecting something 10, 20, 30 times, you should have questions about that for your kid and you should be able to have those discussions, talk to your doctor, talk to your friends, talk to whoever. So that way you can help become as educated as possible to decide that you feel comfortable to do it. You want to feel comfortable to do something that we're recommending, not forced. Yeah.

[Interviewer (Daily Wire Host)]

Beautifully said. I absolutely love that. Last question for you is how we can keep encouraging people to ask these questions and have these conversations, even in the fear of being censored on the Internet. I certainly have several times on this issue, even when we were interviewing the director of the nih, our videos are getting censored on this stuff, which is crazy. Or even just the fear of your friends and family saying, this person's a whack job. How could they possibly be asking these questions?

[Dr. Joel Gator Warsh]

I think we're in a much better time, I think, luckily, you know, if you would have asked me this question a few years ago, it'd be a lot tougher. There are so many people asking questions right now. You're not really getting censored that much anymore. And ultimately we have to do this for our kids. We have to be tough and strong and ask questions so that way those around us can become educated. And the more that people ask these questions, the more that it forces everybody to look into it. And we're seeing that in healthcare. The healthcare system is changing because parents are forcing it to be changed. And you don't have to feel woo woo if you ask educated questions. If you read a little bit about it, then that is really helpful. So that way you can sound a little bit more educated when you're asking those questions and you can feel comfortable with what you're talking about. And ultimately, if somebody wants to call you woo woo or think you're out there, that's up to them. But, but you know, you want to do what's best for your kid. Your family is up to you and you're responsible for your own kids. And if somebody doesn't agree with what you're doing, then too bad for them.

[Interviewer (Daily Wire Host)]

Yeah, too bad for them. I love it. The best mentality we could have. Thank you, my friend, for your voice in this space and for the moral clarity that you have on this subject. I for one, as a new mom, I'm so, so deeply grateful for it.

[Dr. Joel Gator Warsh]

Thank you.

[Isabel Brown]

If you guys enjoyed today's interview, we're doing long form interview sit down like this every single Friday here on the show. So if you're excited for next week's

[Interviewer (Daily Wire Host)]

which is going to be a good

[Isabel Brown]

one, I can promise you, don't forget to smash that subscribe button. It is 100% free for you guys to subscribe to the channel and if you ever want to watch our episodes completely free of ads and any interruptions there, you can join us over on Daily Wire plus as a subscriber to Daily Wire and catch a whole bunch of bonus content that is only available to you over there. We'll see you guys next week. Sam.