Therapists Are Prescribing FAKE Baby Dolls To Grieving Moms… and I Have Questions

Summary

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Podcast Summary: The Isabel Brown Show

Episode: Therapists Are Prescribing FAKE Baby Dolls To Grieving Moms… and I Have Questions
Date: December 17, 2025
Host: Isabel Brown
Podcast Network: The Daily Wire

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Isabel Brown dives deep into the rising phenomenon of “reborn” baby dolls—hyper-realistic dolls that adults care for as if they were real babies. Spurred by viral TikToks and a USA Today article, Isabel examines why therapists are prescribing these dolls to grieving mothers and dementia patients, and whether this “therapy” is healthy, exploitative, or even dangerous. The episode explores cultural implications, controversies, and personal stories behind the reborn doll trend, ultimately questioning what this says about family, grief, and the commodification of children in America.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Viral Reborn Doll Content: Initial Reactions

• TikTok Trends: Isabel’s “For You” page is filled with “reborn baby doll moms,” most notably the “dolls aren't real” account, which amassed over 15 million views in 6 days. Isabel reacts to a viral “morning in the life of a doll mom” video, expressing disbelief and discomfort.
  • Quote: "Am I overreacting or are reborn baby dolls unbelievably creepy? Come weigh in today on the Isabel Brown Show." (01:30)
  • Memorable Moment: Isabel reacts live to a TikTok skit showing a woman feeding and dressing her lifelike dolls, struggling to distinguish between parody and reality. (03:38–06:07)
• Details Observed: Isabel notes the elaborate routines, waste of real food, and the fantasy world built around these dolls—dolls having their own dolls, full nurseries, etc.

Reborn Dolls as Therapy: Background & Industry

• Origins: Reborn dolls started as art and are celebrated for their realism. However, therapists now increasingly prescribe them for memory therapy and grief.
• Dementia Care: Therapists use dolls to unlock memories in dementia and Alzheimer's patients.
  • Quote: "You have a lot of these people who can't even tell you if they've had breakfast that very morning, yet here they are telling you how big their baby was 60 years ago. It is incredible the memories that these dolls really can unlock..." (15:09)
• Prescribing for Grief/Infertility: More controversial is their use for mothers suffering infant loss or infertility.
  • Quote: “At the risk of being canceled... I find prescribing a freakishly, scary-level, lifelike baby doll as a therapeutic healing tool for women struggling to conceive... sadistic torture. I genuinely find this evil to a degree that I can't even begin to wrap my head around.” (17:37)

Personal & Societal Implications

• Case Studies: Discussion of Tracy Knopp, a 60-year-old with 28+ dolls; Knopp’s family supports her, seeing therapeutic benefit, but many hide the hobby due to social stigma.
  • Quote: “Her actual children and husband support her hobby of these dolls because they've seen how much it's helped her. Of course, not everyone supports the doll habit, particularly on social media... some go out of their way to hide the habit.” (20:00)
• Commodification of Children: Isabel expresses concern that such therapy contributes to seeing children as commodities.
  • Quote: “This is creating a gateway to the further commodification of children… actual children, living breathing children, not reborn dolls.” (26:15)

Men, Reborn Dolls, and Online Culture

• Male Collectors: Introduction of an 18-year-old male, Xavier, with 30+ dolls on TikTok, some videos showing undressing dolls in diapers and generating disturbing comments.
  • Quote: “Is this not wildly concerning to anyone else? That we now have adult men, grown men making lifelike realistic baby doll accounts on TikTok... videos of which have babydolls being undressed…” (30:33)
• Comparison to Surrogacy Conferences: Isabel ties the doll trend to the “Men Having Babies” commercial surrogacy conference, arguing both commodify the idea of parenthood.

Community Perspectives: Reddit & Social Feedback

• Mixed Reactions: Reddit threads reflect empathy for grief but skepticism about the long-term value or psychological impact of reborn dolls.
  • Quote: “Some people say this seems like it would soothe in the moment but make it far worse in the long term… it would create further emphasis on the fact that I'm struggling with infertility, whereas I'm finding I need to move on.” (35:20)
• Memorial Items vs. Dolls: Isabel distinguishes between comfort items (like weighted bears) and life-like dolls, seeing value in the former but criticizing the latter as haunting reminders.

Deeper Societal Critique: Family, Motherhood, & Modern Priorities

• Loss of Traditional Family Values: Isabel argues reborn doll therapy is symptomatic of a society that promotes career over family and dismisses motherhood.
  • Quote: “We have brainwashed successfully entire generations of women to genuinely believe that... you are a selfish person if you do the most selfless thing in the entire world... bringing new life into this world.” (42:59)
• Cultural Decline in Birth Rate: Points to falling fertility rates and media narratives that discourage having children.
• Artistry vs. Replacement: One Redditor claims dolls are an art hobby; Isabel counters that for many, they substitute real human connections.

Final Reflections

• Personal Testimony: Isabel shares the irreplaceable love she feels for her own daughter, claiming nothing—especially a doll—can compare.
  • Quote: "There is no replacement. There is no substitute. There is nothing that even remotely comes close to the intimacy and love and depth of emotion that you feel when your baby locks eyes with you for the first time..." (48:09)
• Call to Action: Isabel implores listeners to do better for women and families, suggesting the need for societal and therapeutic alternatives that truly heal and empower.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments with Timestamps

• “Am I overreacting or are reborn baby dolls unbelievably creepy? Come weigh in today on the Isabel Brown Show.” —Isabel Brown [01:30]
• (Reacting to Gina’s TikTok) “So we're packing lunches… rampantly wasting food... I’m so confused. Every time I watch this it just gets worse, to be honest.” —Isabel Brown [04:35]
• “I, in all of my spare time, had never heard of a reborn doll before. I had no idea what this was.” —Isabel Brown [14:14]
• “I find prescribing a freakishly... lifelike baby doll as a therapeutic healing tool for women... sadistic torture.” —Isabel Brown [17:37]
• “Her actual children and husband support her hobby of these dolls because they've seen how much it's helped her.” —Isabel Brown paraphrasing USA Today [20:00]
• “Is this not wildly concerning to anyone else? That we now have adult men, grown men making lifelike... baby doll accounts on TikTok?” —Isabel Brown [30:33]
• “We have brainwashed successfully entire generations of women to genuinely believe that... you are a selfish person if you do the most selfless thing...” —Isabel Brown [42:59]
• “There is no replacement. There is no substitute. There is nothing that even remotely comes close to the intimacy and love... when your baby locks eyes with you for the first time...” —Isabel Brown [48:09]

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Important Segment Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment Description | |------------|------------------------------------------------| | 01:30 | Isabel’s intro and initial reaction to reborn dolls on TikTok | | 03:38–06:07| Reaction to viral “doll mom” TikTok routines | | 14:14 | Isabel describes her deep dive into reborn dolls | | 15:09 | History of reborn dolls and their use in dementia care | | 17:37 | Strong critique of reborn dolls as therapy for infant loss/infertility | | 20:00 | Real-life case of Tracy Knopp, doll collector | | 26:15 | Commodification of children and cultural concerns| | 30:33 | Analysis of male reborn doll collector accounts and comparison to surrogacy | | 35:20 | Exploring Reddit discussions on reborn dolls for grief | | 42:59 | Societal critique: motherhood, fertility, and values | | 48:09 | Isabel’s personal reflection on motherhood |

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Episode Tone & Language

Isabel maintains a direct, opinionated, and sometimes incredulous tone throughout, blending personal stories, cultural critique, and research. She’s empathetic toward those grieving but critical of therapeutic and societal frameworks that, she argues, exploit women’s pain or reinforce unhealthy norms. The episode mixes moments of dark humor (“Can someone say creepy like yesterday, please?” [23:17]) with heartfelt appeals for the revival of traditional family and support for real children and mothers.

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For Listeners: Takeaways

• The “reborn doll” therapy phenomenon is not only a growing trend but a flashpoint for deeper debates about how modern society handles grief, motherhood, and the meaning of family.
• Isabel challenges the normalization of substituting fake for real connection, warning against the spread of what she views as unhealthy coping mechanisms or even exploitation.
• The community is asked to weigh in: Is this trend comforting, creepy, or something even more dangerous?

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Did you find this summary useful? Let us know your take on reborn doll therapy and its implications in the comments!

Transcript

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[Isabel Brown]

I've never been the biggest fan of therapists, but they've taken a new low, apparently with therapists prescribing realistic baby dolls to women struggling with infertility or infant loss. As in, sorry, your baby died. Here's a fake baby for you to hold Instead. My whole TikTok for you page right now is reborn baby doll moms. And it might be the most terrifying thing I've ever seen in my life. Am I overreacting or are reborn baby dolls? Unbelievably creepy. Come weigh in today on the Isabel Brown Show. Maybe the thing that I am the most passionate about in the world is reviving the American family. But for the first time, I find myself not like this. Not like this. I'm scrolling through TikTok the other day and I come across a video with nearly 15 million views. Okay, that is a huge amount of viewership on one particular video. And found myself watching this video on a loop over and over and over again because I couldn't quite wrap my head around what my own two eyes were ingesting on the Internet. And that's coming from someone who is very chronically online and sees all of the crazy things so that you guys don't have to. This came from an account called the dolls aren't Real. And I should mention these 15 million views have happened from this video in the last six days. So people are quite enthralled with this account. The dolls aren't real. As she walks us through her day in the life in this video. A morning in the life of a doll mom. I don't even know how else to tee this up. So we're just gonna watch this together and react to it on the other side? Mornings with a doll mom.

[Gina (Doll Mom)]

Good morning. What are you two doing awake already? Come on, girls. Good morning, adelyn. Adelia.

[Child Voices / Doll Voices]

Mommy. We know, baby. We want babies.

[Gina (Doll Mom)]

Come on, time to get up, sweeties. I'll be right back with the milk. I hate morning is happening.

[Child Voices / Doll Voices]

We want last p.

[Gina (Doll Mom)]

You go to the store.

[Isabel Brown]

I'm so confused. Every time I watch this it just gets worse, to be honest. So we're packing lunches, just rampantly wasting food.

[Gina (Doll Mom)]

I'm back, mom.

[Child Voices / Doll Voices]

The comments on your TikTok channel are brutal.

[Gina (Doll Mom)]

Yeah, let me see. Hey, so I'm terrified.

[Isabel Brown]

Oh.

[Child Voices / Doll Voices]

Huh?

[Isabel Brown]

Oh well.

[Gina (Doll Mom)]

Adeline, are you ready for the spelling test? Hey baby, did you find Pixie's pacifier?

[Isabel Brown]

Of course, they're iPad kids too.

[Gina (Doll Mom)]

How about these?

[Co-host / Advertiser]

Aren't we getting a little old for matching outfits?

[Gina (Doll Mom)]

These aren't matching. Alright, get dressed.

[Isabel Brown]

The dolls have their own dolls. I missed that detail before. We're packing them up to go to school.

[Gina (Doll Mom)]

I see you found a different passy.

[Child Voices / Doll Voices]

Bye, mom. Bye, mom.

[Isabel Brown]

So this mom, I guess this woman claims that she is the mom of five girls aged seven and younger. And I picked up way more details every time I watch this video. It looks like she is making them a bunch of real food to pack their backpacks to go to school. Where a doll goes to school, I don't know. There's a baby doll that she has in the side bassinet attached to her bed that she's like nursing, I guess, in the mornings. And then she makes up all the voices and the names and the conversation and the dialogue of her other four children that I suppose can talk and seems to be in a complete fantasy world, literally gives the dolls their own dolls, dresses them up in matching outfits, has a nursery for them. And I'm watching this video the other day just thinking, what on God's green earth is going on? Is this rage bait? Is it fake? I have no idea what's going on. So I click on this tag or the handle of this account. The dolls aren't real on TikTok, which has nearly 350,000 followers and does not appear to be rage bait, does not appear to be satire, appears to be very real. Although she does have a disclosure for entertainment Only and her email is on here. I guess Gina is this woman's name. All of these videos, this one obviously has the most, with nearly 15 million views, but all of the videos from the last several days have at least a million views. Here's another one with 16 million views as she chronicles her life as a reborn doll mom. I had never heard of reborn dolls, but people start clipping this woman's account and putting it on other platforms. So this video now has 11 million views on X. Another one that we're about to react to. And everyone seems to be having a mixed bag of reviews related to the reborn doll parenting craze. Some people are defending it, saying that this is a very legitimate hobby and not at all concerning for adults to have. Many people are stepping in to say that this is actually a therapeutic practice which we did the deep dive on and we'll talk about today on the show. And then there are other people, people like me saying there are so many different levels to this mental illness thing. Here's another morning with a doll mom with Gina, the mom of five girls who are all dolls. 11 million views on X. Watch this.

[Co-host / Advertiser]

Good morning.

[Isabel Brown]

She's got, like, the noise machine.

[Gina (Doll Mom)]

Wake your sister's up.

[Isabel Brown]

Well, that's not safe sleep so we know it's not a real baby.

[Gina (Doll Mom)]

Good morning, Adelia.

[Isabel Brown]

So she keeps pulling out real food to feed these kids. Does she just throw it all away? I mean, how much money does this cost her? I'm so confused.

[Gina (Doll Mom)]

I hate mornings.

[Child Voices / Doll Voices]

Mom, what are we doing today?

[Gina (Doll Mom)]

Putting together the storage racks and organizing all the hair accessories. Mmm.

[Isabel Brown]

Mm.

[Child Voices / Doll Voices]

Cody. Cody, wake up. Ow. Peppa, wake up. Mommy. Mommy, I want a bottle. Make me bottle, Mommy.

[Gina (Doll Mom)]

Peppa, why do you need a bottle? So she's using real formula.

[Isabel Brown]

Do you know how expensive formulas this.

[Gina (Doll Mom)]

Is for your little sister? Oh, I need to get more formula.

[Child Voices / Doll Voices]

I know. I need all your babies, Mommy. You got me iu favorite baby. Let's do it. Dance. Circling everything I want for Christmas. Just dumb. I just want pigs for Christmas. Gimme date, baby. Give me cat milk. Check mommy out. Oh, wow, look at this. Red, pink, gold. Oh, I want some of this, Mommy.

[Gina (Doll Mom)]

Well, of course I want to help.

[Child Voices / Doll Voices]

You put together the carts, Mommy. And put all the hair bows and stuff in them.

[Gina (Doll Mom)]

Oh, I would love the help.

[Child Voices / Doll Voices]

Mom. I don't know if it did, but Lottie's screaming. You better come in here.

[Gina (Doll Mom)]

All right, I'll be right there.

[Co-host / Advertiser]

Adelia.

[Gina (Doll Mom)]

Pippa, what in the world? That is Lottie's bottle. Oh, give that to me.

[Isabel Brown]

Come on.

[Gina (Doll Mom)]

Yes, it is. This is not your bottle. This is your sister's. Here you go, sweetie.

[Child Voices / Doll Voices]

Oh dear. What you do?

[Gina (Doll Mom)]

Oh goodness. Your sisters, they're already up to no good. Come here. Oh, sweet girl.

[Isabel Brown]

I am highly assuming that this woman is single. It's my guess anyway. But single, presumably woman, middle aged, no.

[Co-host / Advertiser]

Family, it appears anyway.

[Isabel Brown]

Five dolls taking up every single corner of her house as if there are real children living there. There's toys strewn everywhere. There's baby supplies in every closet. There's 8 million bottles being used to make real bottles of real formula and actual kids snacks being used to feed a doll as this woman models what it means to be a reborn doll. Mom, these people are insane. And it's also insane that literally next week is Christmas. I don't know if you guys have been paying attention, but the calendar is lighting up at our house because we are days out from probably the best.

[Co-host / Advertiser]

Day of the year.

[Isabel Brown]

Which means that your calendar is probably also way overpacked this week with hosting duties, shopping lists and endless to dos.

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When life gets this hectic, sleep often takes a backseat.

[Isabel Brown]

But that's exactly when we all need it the most.

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Quality rest is what keeps us energized.

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Reluctantly, he agreed.

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[Isabel Brown]

Helix sleep.com Isabel I, in all of my spare time had never heard of a reborn doll before. I had no idea what this was. So I decided to go on a huge deep dive after coming across Gina's account on TikTok and seeing the very shocking mixed bag of reviews from people, many of whom were defending this behavior as if it was totally normal human adult interaction with our fake children, I guess. And USA Today, it turns out, covered this at length last spring in April of 2024 as it was picking up popularity then on social media. I guess my algorithm never fed me the reborn baby doll craze. Thank you to the TikTok overlords at this point that I have not been fed this content up until now. But last April, USA Today ran this story. Reborn dolls look just like real life babies. Why people buy them may surprise you. It turns out these dolls originally started out as like art pieces and were appreciated for their unbelievable uncanny realisticness of resembling babies. They look so real. Many people say that it is almost scary and there's a lot of people who are uncomfortable with the very idea of a baby doll so closely resembling a person, even if it was intended to be some sort of art exhibition. But it turns out over the years, therapists, which I have a lot to say about another time as a larger conversation here on the show, are prescribing these reborn dolls as a form of therapeutic healing, particularly for older people struggling with dementia and Alzheimer's and for younger women who are who are struggling with infertility or infant loss. USA Today covered one of these therapists bringing dolls to dementia patients at Local hospitals, nursing homes, hospice care, et cetera. Back in 2017, she started this practice and she said, it is amazing because you have a lot of these people who can't even tell you if they've had breakfast that very morning, yet here they are telling you how big their baby was 60 years ago. It is incredible the memories that these dolls really can unlock for some of these people. I can appreciate that at face value. And I know with dementia care, it is a really delicate situation of trying to revive certain memories without it being too overwhelming for the patient. So holidays can be really exciting because old recurring memories do pop up. Music has a really powerful healing component of people struggling with dementia. The song that they dance to with their husband for their first dance at their wedding, for example, or songs that they listened to over and over and over again when they were a senior in high school can bring back a whole lot of their identity and their sense of self and their sense of self connection of who they always have been, rather than feeling so lost and adrift. So I imagine that holding a baby doll that might look kind of like your baby did once upon a time could of course provide some really interesting memory connection for people struggling with dementia. But I want to go back to what USA Today wrote that other therapists are prescribing this for. They are helping people struggling with infertility or infant loss at the risk of being canceled, which we do pretty much every day on the show. But this seems a bit sensitive today. A sensitive topic. Maybe it's me. Maybe it's me and don't come at me. I find prescribing a freakishly a scary, level, lifelike baby doll as a therapeutic healing tool for women struggling to conceive their own child or whose child just died, passed away in a miscarriage or a stillbirth sadistic torture. I, I, I genuinely find this evil to a degree that I can't even begin to wrap my head around. Therapists trying to make money off of your continued negativity, your continued depression, your, your continued anxiety, your continued state of emotional dependence, which is a larger conversation surrounding the therapy industry are trying to get you to be so depressed after you have lost your baby that they will hand you a fake baby to hold in perpetuity forever. A baby that will never laugh or cry unless you do the voices yourself, which is so creepy. A baby that will never look at you and say, mama. A baby that will never reach up and touch your face. A baby that you will never get to breastfeed. A baby that will never say I love you or roll over a baby that will never light up when dad walks through the front door at the end of a really long workday. None of those things. But I know you're going through a hard time right now and I know you're struggling with the loss of your baby. So here's a frickin doll that is disgusting, that is so torturous and sadistic I can't even begin to wrap my head around it. But apparently there are a whole lot of people, particularly women, who have struggled to conceive their own children or who have lost several of their own children that are lapping this up and embracing Reborn Doll therapy. And this is a whole growing industry in the last few years in the United States of America. They cover in this USA Today piece one woman who is 60 years old named Tracy Knopp. K N O P P E I believe it is pronounced Knopp at her home in Missouri. There are literally two dozen plus lifelike babies lying in a nursery in a 60 year old woman's home. Except the cribs and bassinets are not holding real babies. They say they are holding dolls. Some of these dolls cost six thousand thousand dollars plus. And this woman, as one example of presumably hundreds if not thousands of people across our country that are also engaging in reborn doll therapy, takes these dolls out in public and drives them around and brings them to the store and explains to people that this is a therapy tool. It's not a real doll. You might or a real baby. You might think it's a real baby when you first look at it. It actually is a doll but. But more importantly, it's a therapy tool which Tracy says is why she has them. And it's hard for people to argue against something. It is a therapy tool that helps people. USA Today wrote this last spring. Nops actual children and husband. Oof. Her actual children and husband support her hobby of these dolls because they've seen how much it's helped her. Of course, not everyone supports the doll habit for particularly on social media. Some people go out of their way to hide the habit in the first place. Somebody says there are quite a few people in the doll community that are not accepted by their families and friends. They make up completely different social media profiles so that nobody knows that they have these dolls. Tracy Knop is open about her hobby. Every day she picks a baby of the day to focus on and dress up in baby clothes. She has 28 of them and two more on the way. Her dolls vary in size from a preemie that's a few pounds to one about the size of a six or nine month old that's twelve and a half pounds. Some days she will want a heavier one to help with her anxiety, similar to a weighted blanket. This is sick. Like, this is genuinely disgusting that this is how we're trying to help women struggling with anxiety, with depression, with infertility, with infant loss. But I guess people are enjoying it and profiting off of it enough to make TikTok accounts like Gina's that we reacted to at the top of the episode, or in Tracy's case, thriving Instagram pages with hundreds of posts. She has 386 posts on her account at Reborn Doll Therapy featured in USA Today in the bio, which she shares her experience naming all of her babies. There's Darcy and Gemma and Charlie and Lucy and Levi and Gracie Mae and Stella B. And all of these babies. Oscar Owen, 28 babies More on the way that are dolls that every day she focuses on a different one and dresses them up in real baby clothes, takes them out to run real errands with her and and acts like they are her real children. Reminder, by the way, that this woman actually has real children.

[Child Voices / Doll Voices]

Real children.

[Isabel Brown]

I. I can't. I cannot. She posts stuff on her Instagram like taking Gracie May shopping with me. Watch this.

[Gina (Doll Mom)]

Gracie May and I are at the resale shop. We are shopping, getting all sorts of clothes and goodies. Gracie May and I are shopping.

[Isabel Brown]

Were shopping for all sorts of clothes and goodies. This was posted a little over a year ago. She said in the caption. Gracie May was a huge hit at my doctor's appointment this morning. They passed her around the office. After that we went resale shopping. Gracie May's realism is off the charts good. Every single person thought that she was real. Is that the point? Is the point to pass these off as real kids? If so, can someone say creepy please? Can someone say creepy like yesterday, please?

[Co-host / Advertiser]

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[Isabel Brown]

Toxic a lot of the even naturally.

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[Isabel Brown]

And this is where things are starting to get really off the rails for me as I go down the reborn parent, reborn mom, reborn therapy, rabbit hole on the Internet again. I am brand new to this world so if you guys have seen things that even I haven't seen, please fill me in. But what I am seeing is creating a gateway to the further commodification of children. Like of actual children, living breathing children, not reborn dolls. I mentioned that this was really prescribed not just for people with dementia, but but prescribed by therapists for people struggling with infertility. And the more accounts I am coming across over and over and over again about being a reborn doll parent. The more I am seeing people that either are single well into now their middle aged years and so it's probably too late for them to naturally conceive a baby, which is devastating, right? And is a product of our society telling you you have time, you have time, you have time, when you really don't have time to consider having a family of your own. Or are people who genuinely do struggle with infertility diagnoses, which 1 in 7 married couples in the United States do struggle with. 1 in 7 couples as of right now struggle with a diagnosis of unexplained infertility, which is ridiculous and a cheap cop out. Of course there is an explanation, but our healthcare system isn't really interested in helping you figure out what's wrong. They typically use this diagnosis to shove you into the IVF world and make a whole bunch of money off of the fact that you are having a hard time naturally conceiving your own children. But those single adults saying it's too late for me to have a kid, this is never going to be something that I get to embrace are also now capitalizing off of their reborn doll TikTok pages. And it's not just women. One of the accounts that I came across in this deep dive is a guy allegedly named Xavier who says that he is 18 years old in his TikTok bio. The handle is Reborn Babies. And Xavier, who literally has hundreds of videos posted to his TikTok account, some of which with millions of views, every single one of which is a reborn baby doll. And it looks like there may be 30, 40, 50 of these dolls owned by presumably at least according to this person's bio, an 18 year old man named Xavier. And what videos and pictures on his account don't actually have a baby in them? Say things like I've ordered a new baby, he'll be here on Monday, babies for sale and the like. And all of the actual videos on the platform are of actual baby dolls or toddler dolls that look like real children, some of which are just wearing diapers. With millions of views on a man's account on TikTok, here is one of his pinned videos. Taking one of these babies for a walk. On a walk with Augie On a walk with Augie. And the shocking thing is that the comments on a man's TikTok video to be living my dream. He's so cute. What a pretty baby. I think I saw your post on Facebook. Forgot his jacket. Lol. Can I have one of these dolls? Where did you get this toddler from where did you get him? He's so adorable. I live in England and I have one. His expression is the sweetest. Wow. Looks so real today. It looks so real. It looks so real. It looks so real.

[Child Voices / Doll Voices]

What?

[Isabel Brown]

Where did you get it? Where did they sell these? Where can I buy one? Where can I get it from? Can I buy this one from you? Can I ask where you got him? A man's single man's TikTok account with 30, 40, 50 realistic lifelike infant, newborn and toddler baby dolls has thousands of comments on this video with more than a million views asking where can I possibly buy one of these? Call me looking for the worst in people at this moment in time, but is this not wildly concerning to anyone else? That we now have adult men, grown men making lifelike realistic babydoll accounts on TikTok, some videos of which have babydolls being undressed like the one I'm about to show you I of baby dolls in diapers and hundreds of comments of other grown ups asking where the heck do I buy one of these? Including other men. Tell me this video does not have nefarious purposes.

[Child Voices / Doll Voices]

Oh.

[Isabel Brown]

Yeah, at the very least, mental illness, right? At the very least something is really wrong with all of these grown ups by the hundreds. Where did you buy this? Where did you get this? How much does it cost? Where do you get it? Where can I find it? Where did you get it? Where do you get your reborns? I want a reborn doll. Where did you get it? Where did you get it? Can I get one? At the very least, mental illness. But to start this video with 1.1 million views on a man's account of undressing a lifelike realistic baby doll and ripping a pacifier out of its mouth to show that its mouth is open. You cannot tell me there is not at least some level of nefarious purpose behind all of this. Which incidentally immediately brought me back to the Men Having Babies conference that we talked about on the show a few weeks ago. I don't know if you guys remember this, but I completely shuddered a few weeks ago coming across a conference in New York City featuring hundreds upon hundreds of attendees. The biggest and best conference to date hosted by an organization called Men Having Babies. And it's a room full of men learning from other men how to purchase children through commercial surrogacy. They said this on their Instagram 12 weeks ago. Some more photos from our conference this past weekend in New York. It is definitely our biggest and best conference to date. It was a full house with a record number of attendees, gay singles and couples dreaming of becoming parents, and with our new and improved curriculum. It was truly an amazing conference. Gay single men dreaming of purchasing a baby through commercial surrogacy. That takes me right back to the same language being used on a man's reborn doll account on TikTok babies for sale. I have ordered a new baby. He will be here on Monday. Creepy, nefarious, and unacceptable in a society that is not interested in the commodification of our children. I don't want to suggest that everyone who plays with a reborn doll necessarily has these motives or is doing so for all of the wrong reasons. At the very least, it's really weird and I hope is like very weird to other people too, and not just me. But there are fascinatingly really long Reddit threads about all of this with people explaining why they have purchased reborn dolls. So I want to know from you guys if it is really indeed this bizarre to everyone else or it's just me. This is an infertility sucks Reddit community. And on this thread 3 years ago Someone asks has anyone actually purchased a reborn doll for therapy? And I keep seeing videos of the dolls on TikTok. So now I am curious. I see a lot of hate and cringe comments about it and people are constantly bringing up infertility. They say things like it's for people who can't have kids, which I find interesting. I'm not judging at all. In fact, I want to know if they actually help. Some days it is unbearable dealing with infertility. And let me say this before we go through this entire conversation. My heart is truly broken for everyone that I know in my own life and every one of you who's watching the show that that are dealing with the grief and the overwhelming struggle of infertility. My heart truly breaks for you and I completely understand that you guys are going through an unbelievably hard time. I just have such a hard time believing that holding a fake baby doll that will never grow up, that isn't your baby, that is not alive, that you'll never get to see laugh and cry and grow is the answer to that by any means. But other people seem to disagree. Some people say this seems like it would soothe in the moment but make it far worse in the long term. For me, having something that would keep me stuck in the dream would create further emphasis on the fact that I'm struggling with infertility, whereas I'm finding I need to move on and find new dreams. This person says I see them a lot of the time use less for infertility in general and more for people who have had stuff, stillborn babies or who have lost babies. I don't personally have a doll, but I do have a memorial bear from my loss. It is nice to have something physical to hold on to. Honestly, a weighted teddy bear, which I know a lot of people do get when they have a stillborn baby or they have lost their baby through a miscarriage. Something to physically hold on to. I know that that's very common. That doesn't bother me at all actually. It's a primal instinctual nature and a maternal thing in particular. To hold something when we are sad, to wrap our arms around something, to struggle with something. Knowing that you are not alone by holding something else. That doesn't bother me. It's the fake baby thing with hyper realistic eyelashes and skin tone and freckles basically as a constant reminder of what you will never have. That seems like sadistic torture to me. The this person says I've considered buying a reborn doll, but my husband is totally against the idea. When I lost my daughter I wanted to buy one, but he said no. He said we had to bury our daughter and grieve properly. So I did. I still think having a physical baby shaped item would be helpful in sorting out my emotions now. Everyone grieves differently and handles this battle in their own way. My heart and my arms ache for a child who doesn't exist. At least not anymore. I think having a placeholder would help, but then everyone else tells me that a therapist would help when I know they won't. For you, it may be different, I don't know. But I do know that this journey is so lonely and so devast in so many ways that it can definitely feel unbearable at times. I can't give you any answers, but if you need an ear to listen, I'm happy to hear you and commiserate. Interesting. Placeholder. Placeholder. Back to the insanity in just a second.

[Co-host / Advertiser]

But first I want to talk to you guys about something that's hit me really hard. After becoming a mom, I have realized that every decision I make about my health isn't just about me anymore. It's about showing up for my daughter Isla, being present for all of her milestones and and having the energy to keep up with her for decades to come. And that is a totally different kind of motivation.

[Isabel Brown]

But here's the problem.

[Co-host / Advertiser]

Our healthcare system is built to be reactive. You wait until something's wrong and then.

[Isabel Brown]

You try to fix it.

[Co-host / Advertiser]

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[Isabel Brown]

Seek to be upward and upfront about.

[Co-host / Advertiser]

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[Isabel Brown]

When we get a horrible diagnosis or.

[Co-host / Advertiser]

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[Isabel Brown]

Means to responsibly take care of ourselves.

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[Isabel Brown]

I am so grateful that tools like.

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[Isabel Brown]

To come, you guys can use Code.

[Co-host / Advertiser]

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[Isabel Brown]

So, so much more time with the people who matter the most. Our children, as hard as this is to talk about, are not toys that we can throw away and buy a new one and hold in our arms and use as a placeholder for the real thing. And maybe this is a larger conversation about the commodification of babies in particular, let alone people, because we do commodify people in so many different ways in our society too, through onlyfans and pornography and all kinds of stuff. But when we have normalized commercial surrogacy, when we have normalized many aspects of the IVF industry, when we have normalized this type of family unit that is not actually the family unit, we have created a societal expectation that it is okay, it is normal, and you as an adult have a right to a baby through any means necessary. And my concern is that buying dolls that look identical to babies reinforces this idea as a doll mom or a doll parent, that when you're ready for the next thing and you're ready for your placeholder to just be done with and have the quote unquote real thing, then you will just go out and buy a baby too, in an industry that does not value the sanctity and dignity of human life. In an industry that is trying to artificially create in laboratories high IQ individuals while literally throwing away anyone who doesn't pass that threshold into the trash or medically experimenting upon the children we create. In an industry that literally says yeah, that's not really a baby, it's just an embryo, it's not really a human being even though we created it for you, so why don't we just get rid of it? Why don't we just keep it in a freezer in perpetuity? And in these freezers currently are millions upon millions upon millions of people, genetically unique individuals who have never existed before and will never exist again. And maybe even worse as we reinforce the idea that you can just buy a baby, you don't have to get married, you don't have to go through pregnancy, you don't have to experience the full necessity of parenting from beginning to end. Why would you even buy a real baby? Why would you adopt a real baby? To which there is another Reddit thread that is shudderingly scary to me in the realm of the fact that we cannot currently replace our own population, that we are struggling not with a massive overpopulation crisis, but a massive underpopulation crisis in the vast majority of the developed world and we've convinced people successfully that the most beautiful life giving purpose that we could possibly give our lives to in raising the next generation and is scary and is not even worth engaging in in the first place. A few months ago someone posted in the Reborn Dolls Reddit community, why do you prefer to buy a reborn doll versus adopting a real baby? This person says absolutely no judgment. I love and get this community my personal reason I can't have children and I don't want the lifetime responsibility of an adopted child. Some of it could be tied to trauma and inner dialogue about my capacity and ability. A reborn gives me the opportunity to release what motherhood would have without feeling obligated. Top Comment I don't want kids, not with how this world is going. This is a terrible environment. The world is overpopulated and for me to bring a child into this would be selfish of me. Everyone can do what they want. This is just my personal opinion and circumstance. In a better world I would love to be a parent and this is not that world. So reborns and cats it is. How profoundly empty, sad, narcissistic, selfish. We have brainwashed successfully entire generations of women to be genuinely believing that you are a bad person. You are a selfish person. You are an evil person if you do the most selfless thing in the entire world, the single most selfless thing you can do as a woman in bringing new life into this world. To parent our children and to raise them to be good stewards of the world that we live in. Down is up and left is right and right is wrong. So instead of making beautiful new children, instead of trying to make the world a better place, instead of experiencing the depth and the beauty and the intimacy of pregnancy and birth and breastfeeding and motherhood, we're buying baby dolls because we can put them away at the end of the day. It's better for the environment. It's too selfish of me to bring a baby into the world. So instead I'm just going to be even more selfish, put my baby away in a drawer at the end of the day instead of sacrificing things out of my own life for the betterment of another human person. It's pathetic, but is that the best we can do in the society that's trying to convince women that children are evil? It's interesting. This one says, reborn babies I can stop playing with at any time. They never need baths or change diaper. They'll never grow up and they will always fit in your arms. They will never cry or get sick unless you play with them that day. They don't need real food. They don't need medical care. I will never be able to afford a real baby or give them the best upbringing or even just the right emotional care. I never have to worry about any of that with a baby doll. This person, guinea girl, they don't scream and and depend on me for the rest of their lives. I don't want to bring a baby into this kind of mess. Unbelievable. Nice pineapple says. I'm a mother of three living children ages 12, 10 and 7 years old. They are the love of my life and I never knew the depth of love I was capable of until becoming a mother. I am also a reborn collector and artist. These dolls were never meant to fulfill any maternal needs that I have. I enjoy babies, I appreciate the art, and they're fascinating to hold paint, etc. They are not human. It is not possible to connect with a reborn doll in an identical way that you would connect with a living human child. I prefer parenting real children and I prefer reborns as a hobby and art form. It's nice that some people might be able to make that distinction, but quite literally, thousands of other comments, social media accounts, videos, and everything out there on the Internet is suggesting the opposite, that there are entire generations of women that are choosing not to have kids. We know this at the lowest fertility rate our country has had in 100 years. We know this from the media convincing you that you are a bad person if you want to have children. Look at that Los Angeles Times headline from just before Election Day last November of the fact that they say it is selfish to want to have children in the first place. So people are coping in other ways, including trying to replace a maternal connection with a lifelike baby doll. I've never held a reborn doll. I have no idea what these things are like in real life. All I can see is how ridiculously creepy they are on the Internet, and I can somewhat appreciate the artistry of how lifelike they already are. But I am a mom to a beautiful little girl who is almost eight months old. And I can tell you this. There is no replacement. There is no substitute. There is nothing that even remotely comes close to the intimacy and love and depth of emotion that you feel when your baby locks eyes with you for the first time. When your baby, living baby, not baby doll, reaches up and touches your face. When they say mama for the first time, that is my daughter's favorite word. Right now. All she says is mama, mama, mama, mama. When she laughs, really belly laughs for the first time. When she splashes around in the bathtub, when she lights up, when her dad walks through the front door after a really long workday, when we sing songs together and she flaps her arms around and is dancing. Nothing in my life has ever given me so much purpose, drive, fulfillment and joy. And my heart is truly broken knowing that our broken upside down in many ways, sadistic culture is trying to replace that experience for women with a $6,000 doll. We can and we should, and we must do better if we're serious about reviving the American family, if we're serious about actually helping people walking through seasons of infertility or infant loss, and if we're serious about wanting more for women reborn dolls and ain't it okay, but maybe that's just me. Maybe you disagree. Maybe you're all for it. So am I the only one that thinks this is the creepiest thing they've ever seen? Drop your thoughts in the comments and.

[Co-host / Advertiser]

We will be back for the Isabelle Brown show tomorrow.

[Blinds.com / Liberty Mutual Advertiser]

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[Isabel Brown]

Limu is that guy with the binoculars watching us.

[Blinds.com / Liberty Mutual Advertiser]

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[Ryan Reynolds]

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