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Yo. Welcome back to another episode of the Jack Maller Show. I am your host, Jack, and you are listening to Mailbag Monday, ladies and gentlemen. Oh, there's my resources tab, my AI tool. All right, let's get back to slide one. You are listening to episode 120 of Mail Bag Monday. Every single Monday, 6:00pm Eastern, 5:00pm Central. All signal, no noise. The title of Today's keynote is 15 Questions from the Straight of Hormuz to Strategy, M Nav, Dilution, and my boots. This one should be a lot of fun. But before we get started, let me time stamp this bad boy. I'm a little jet lagged. Ladies and gentlemen, I'm talking to you all at a Bitcoin price of 66. 420. $420. That puts Bitcoin's market cap at 1.33 trillion. Bitcoin's all time high remains at 126. 160. We are 47.3% off that all time high. We made it 252 days ago on October 6, 2025. The last Bitcoin block mined since I hit stream was block height, 953,839. All right, let's do this. Some of my audience. First of all, I love meeting you guys out in the real world. I'm going to the grocery store. Sometimes I'm in the airport, I'm at the conferences. Never be shy. Please say hi. For those of you that have said hi to me, you guys know I'm a hugger. It's the coolest thing in the world, the relationship we have. So I love meeting you guys and it's been interesting because some of you guys are bitcoiners, obviously. Follow me on Twitter. You strike are fans of the overall bitcoin network and movement. And some of you guys are less bitcoiners and more into the macro stuff, which is also really cool. This show and my little live streams has definitely introduced me to new corners of the Internet and I learn a lot from you guys. I find it super interesting. So the reason I give that context is today is going to be a very particular episode. It's going to be less macro and more. I mean, I feel like every time I wake up in the morning and check my phone, it's insane. My boots are trending. Of me asking someone a question is trending or offensive. And so the point of this episode is going to be just a source of truth so that people can hear from me how I feel in my opinions so that whenever There's a tweet, someone can say, hey, watch this video or check out this timestamp. Jack answered your exact question right here. Because the other thing is Twitter's sometimes a difficult forum to have long form conversation. There's not a lot of nuance that can be had on Twitter, which makes it difficult because obviously then I think the conversation sometimes gets really polarizing because when you are restricted to shorter forum, you, you leave out nuance. Nuance. Lack of nuance sometimes leads to lack of empathy. And then you get black versus white up verse down zero verse one and it. And that's what sells and that's what gets clicks and that's what get views anyway, is controversial. Lack of empathy, type of infighting, which I personally don't feel that way. So that's what this episode is about. And with further ado, let's get into it. We're going to breeze through the macro stuff really quickly. First, our four questions. As always, before we start an episode, before we waste our time chasing politicians, we ask the same four questions. Is the straight of Hormu still closed? And this week, for the first time in many weeks, we don't really know which we'll get into in a second. Is the conflict still ongoing? Again, we don't really know. Are global supply chains being disrupted? We don't really know. And can global debt survive this disruption? The answer will always be no. What am I talking about? Late over the weekend, President Trump posted on his Truth Social account, the deal with the Islamic public Republic, excuse me, of Iran is now complete. Congratulations to all. I hereby fully authorize the toll free opening of the Strait of Hormuz and simultaneously herewith authorized the immediate removal of the United States naval blockade. Ships of the world, start your engines. Let the oil flow. President Donald J. Trump. And this was posted on Twitter by the White House. Okay. Shortly after that, everyone started to try and engineer. Well, does that actually mean the straight is open? Mind you, we've been bamboozled, us being just the public, the world, the people, many a times. There's a deal, there's no deal. There's a deal, there's no deal. It's open, it's closed, it's open, it's closed. And that's why on the show we've just been very much, we're going to ask the questions. If it's not open, we're going to move on. We're not going to waste our time trying to chase politicians around. And so everyone's starting to try and engineer. Well, let's just assume this is true. When would it actually open? We've talked about. It's not like flipping a switch. I mean, these are physical trade routes. Physical, physical commodities along the lines in the ethos of proof of work. And bitcoin, these are not things you can just snap your finger and print out of thin air. This is not an Excel sheet you can just update on a whim. And so this from PBS News. Even with a deal to reopen the Strait of Hormuz, it could take weeks or months for oil to fully flow. And so that's true. And so as President Trump announced this, everyone was starting. Now, mind you, and I'll reiterate this point a few times, bitcoin reacted immediately. Bitcoin continues to be the only real free market we have in the world, the only functioning smoke alarm that we have for fiat liquidity. And so if you want to understand the health of global markets, the health of liquidity, look no further than the bitcoin price. You know, when bitcoin and gold have been selling off recently, I think that is much more accurate sentiment of what's going on in the world than the stock market. Consumer sentiments at all time lows, stock markets at all time highs, as we've talked about on the show. So clearly the fact that those aren't correlated mean that they aren't speaking the same language, they aren't conveying the same message. And so Bitcoin rocketing 5% higher just off this news alone is fascinating to me. Bitcoin is working as a global smoke alarm for fiat liquidity. It is a signal of truth, a beacon of honesty in a world that's becoming more and more polluted with, not nonsense, with garbage, especially with AI slop. Nowadays we're being just like demolished with information, over consumed with information. And I just find it fascinating that bitcoin can act as a true free market beacon of hope. So anyway, I look to the bitcoin price to see how real is this deal. And seemingly it was pretty real. And so everyone's starting to try and engineer, well, when is this, this going to open? What does it mean for the oil market? What does it mean for global supply chains? What does it mean for the bond market? Fast forward to an hour before I hit stream. And it looks like the US blockade is actually still in place. What President Trump tweeted had not started yet and they have changed the date until Friday. And so this is a quote tweet from Rory. Looks like the US blockade is still in fact in place nothing changing until Friday. And he's quote twinning a screenshot that says blockade of Iran ports remain in effect pending execution of a US Iran cease fire agreement scheduled for June 19 and today's June 15. And so that is why we don't chase politicians around. That is why we wait. This is why I think these things are going to take longer than people expect. We're dealing with physical commodities. You can't print oil out of thin air. You can't print the Strait of Termoose out of thin air. You can't print ship vessels out of thin air. These things take time. These things are hard. I think we are being misled as to the gravity of this situation. And then right before I hit, I hit stream. The Vice President of the United States, J.D. vance, started to come out with language to the press around how this is just an mou. It's only about a page and a half. The document is really general. And so the bitcoin price has actually started to correct a little bit because the public is now starting to question once again the validity of what was actually agreed to. Was it just a general agreement where Iran and the US said hey, in principle, if you agree with me and I agree with you, then theoretically we all agree. And if that is what was agreed to, but the blockades are still in place, ships aren't moving and things are now not happening until Friday. Is the market going to correct back? So as from a macro standpoint, that's the update I have. Is the straight open? I don't think we know. Has there been a deal agreed to? I don't think we know. Now listen, I'm not a doomsday guy. I try and just be a realist, try and be honest. As I say, this show's got no ads. I really think it's important to have someone in the community that just has no other agenda outside of just trying to be vulnerable and authentic and real, to be honest with you. So that's my agenda. I think a deal has to commence. I don't think either side has a choice. I think we will see some form of taco. Trump always chickens out. I don't think you're going to see wide scale war. I don't think the US can afford troops on the ground. I think that the western bond markets and yields are sending a flash warning signal that there's a lot of liquidity issues. We could be entering some form of a crisis. And so I do expect a deal. I do expect a straight to reopen. I'VE been consistent. I think it's going to take longer. It has taken longer than what we were told. I mean, at the end of February, beginning of March, we were told this was just a few days or maybe a week. And we're sitting here in the middle of June. If I were to tell you the first week of March, hey, this might not be open by July 4th, you have called me insane, but here we are. So I don't know if we have any clarity. What should you watch to try and tell the truth? The bitcoin price. And don't underestimate how cool that is an open source software project and open source money is the closest thing we have to the truth because it's operating in a global free market. That is the coolest thing in the world. So I sleep easy knowing that I can trust bitcoin or that I don't have to trust anyone because of bitcoin. Maybe it's better phrased that way. And that is what I have for the macro stuff. Okay, now 15 questions. Transparency, truth and authenticity. I paraphrased before. I'll just reiterate again. The goal for me this episode is to just like say my truth, not let people, let people on the Internet speak on my behalf or speak for me and try and go through as many of your guys questions or just questions that people have for me in one sitting because it achieves a few things. One, it gives you the actual answer to my question. Two, it actually allows for a concise presentation as to why I'm asking the questions I'm asking, what specifically am I confused about? What are my opinions? So I don't think I've really had an opportunity. There's been like different clips on the Internet. I'll go on someone else's podcast and then people, people on Twitter will clip it to their liking or clip it to their bias. So let this be my source of truth, if you don't mind. Okay, first and foremost, what am I talking about? How did we get here? So last episode I talked about strategy specifically, but you know, just bitcoin, treasury companies generally. And something I was confused about. And the reason I did that last episode is because every single week you guys ask me tons of questions about bitcoin, treasury companies, about strategy, about Saylor, about all these companies, all these things. You've been asking me about it now for years. I typically have ignored it with time. And by the way, the questions range. So people will say, hey, can you add stretch to strike? Like what if we got yield on our dollars. If you added the these preferred equities inside of strike, then people will say, you're the CEO of 21, you have a public company, why don't you do this strategy? Or people will say, hey Jack, I'm an MSTR shareholder, I'm a strive shareholder, I'm a what's a pomps company shareholder. Can you give your opinion? Can you explain these things? And over time, over time, over time again, I feel in my heart that I just. I'll say this, the wise man has no ego, okay? And I'll get into this later. But if being wise was just reading five books, we'd all be wise. The truth is becoming wise. Acquiring wisdom is through proof of work. It's through trial and error. It's through being dumb, asking questions, failing. That's why wisdom is associated with the elderly. That's why wisdom is scarce. And that's why ego is one of the most expensive things you can carry as a person. Thinking you're above asking questions, thinking that you're above answering people's questions. So I've always found it incredibly important for me as a CEO of my business, in my career, as a friend, as a future husband of my fiance, as a brother, as a son. I think the world is experiencing a shortage of authenticity, a shortage of just confidence in oneself. People are scared of being wrong. I think people are scared of judgment. I think people defend with ego. And I make a point, I go out of my way sometimes to counter position to that. And so anyways, I want to answer your guys questions. I want to put myself out there, if anything, for an example, I'm gonna fail, I'm gonna be wrong. But I'm gonna ask the questions. I'm gonna have opinions. I think it's really important to the ethos of Bitcoin. So last week I give my opinion and block the news media, not, not Dorsey's company, the media people. They wrote an article about my question which is how does everybody win in the capital stack of a company like strategy? These, these preferred equity, Bitcoin, treasury companies. And the blocks article reads like this. Mallard said he has gone on record with questions about strategies, perpetual preferred instruments. Not because the structure is inherently flawed, but because he cannot resolve how the company makes its entire capital stack whole simultaneously. The company now carries four classes of claimants including Bitcoin, Common Equity, perpetual preferred and debt. The perpetual preferreds are non callable and carry an 11.5% coupon, creating what Mallard described as a permanent liquidity obligation with no natural exit. Paying that bill, he argued, forces a choice every time. Selling Bitcoin satisfies common shareholders, preferred holders and debt holders, but damages bitcoin and bitcoin holders. Selling common equity satisfies bitcoiners, preferred holders and debt holders, but disadvantages the common shareholder. Declining to pay the preferred holders entirely is the third option, and one that he did not view as realistic. So how do you make the whole capital stack happy? And that was my point last episode is if you are a company where your bitcoin investment is underwater. So I think right now, and this isn't a diss, everyone's bitcoin stack is underwater right now. It's a bear market. But right now MicroStrategy's Bitcoin investment is at a loss, I think to the tune of 10, 11, $12 billion, something like that. Okay, fine. That's why you hodl. Just stay patient. Low time preference. Now also, the equity is trading under nav. Now why I asked the questions is because some people are saying it's trading above nav, some people are saying it's trading below nav. That's why I'm asking, well, what is M. Nav? How can we have a conversation if we don't have a universal definition? But let's say the company's Bitcoin is underwater. The company's common equity, its stock is also under nav. And as the article describes, you have now a perpetual obligation that you must meet. You cannot defer these payments. You have a perpetual preferred means you owe the money forever. It doesn't convert into equity, it does not expire. You owe that money for the next infinite years, forever. You're your great, great, great great grandchildren are going to inherit that fiat liability. And so the question is, how do you come up with the money without burdening the cost on someone else? Because obviously if you sell the Bitcoin, you're not diluting common equity holders, you're not pausing the preferred payments, you're not defaulting on the debt, so those people are happy. But then you're putting sell pressure on Bitcoin and you're not pleasing the bitcoiners. If you don't sell Bitcoin and you sell common equity, then you're not putting sell pressure on bitcoin, you're not pausing the preferred payments, you're not defaulting on the debt, but you are burdening the cost onto the MSTR common shareholder. Now if you don't want to burden the MSTR shareholder or the bitcoiner, you could Just tell the preferred holders, sorry, I don't have the money right now. Bear market times are tough. Wait till the M. Nav hopefully recovers or wait for bitcoin to go up a bit. But. So that would make the bitcoiner not have to deal with sell pressure. That would make the MSTR holder not have to deal with sell pressure. But obviously that would disadvantage the preferred holder because they bought this thing because they thought it was a replacement to a money market fund. Now, I don't know of another option. I don't know how you come up with the money. Obviously the best thing to do is to do nothing. Because if you don't have to sell bitcoin, you don't have to dilute shareholders, you don't have to pause payments, then the life goes on and you just are low. Hey, stay humble. Low your time preference, hodl. Just wait. But you have to keep raising money and coming up with money. You're on this kind of like treadmill, this like perpetual treadmill. And so it's a very simple question. I'm not trying to. And in the article it says Mallor's has gone on record with questions about strategies, perpetual preferred instruments. Not because the structure is inherently flawed. I'm not saying I don't. I not saying I have the answers. I don't know the answers. And that's why I'm asking. Okay, so I go to Prague and I was on a panel at this. It was called. It wasn't even the actual conference. It was called like bitcoin for corporations or something. And I'm on a panel and I think it'll get uploaded to YouTube. We're talking about stuff and I'm basically one of the questions was, how do you think bitcoin companies should be built and acquire bitcoin or something like that. And I said, I live in the camp of trying to build cash flow. So do I think that having a big bitcoin treasury is a bad thing? No. Strike has a big bitcoin treasury. 21 has the second largest in the world. So no. Do I think leverage on top of bitcoin, like levering short dollar is a bad thing? No, I do not. I just think that just Austrian economics, Austrian school theory, doing something productive for the marketplace is both an economic good and a moral good. Producing more value than you're consuming and that's realized in profit. That's just Austrian school. That's Austrian economics. And so I said, I want to build a company that has products, customers, growth, cash flow and a Bitcoin treasury, where if I do have a preferred equity, if I do have some for some sort of convertible debt, I can finance it with cash flow and that way I don't have to dilute anybody. I ideally don't have to sell any bitcoin. And I'm getting the best of both worlds of like an amazing business with customers and products and innovation. And you're building real tools that push the bitcoin mission forward. And you're displaying the fact that you think fiat's going to zero and bitcoin's going to infinity on your balance sheet. And that was just my honest opinion. Now, the other panel people didn't agree and they started to bring up these topics of like, well, what if someone wants to retire and doesn't want to work anymore and they want 12% yield? Like, obviously, everybody, hey, why 12%? Why not 13, 14, 15%? And so they're bringing this up and I'm on the panel and I said, hey, I don't understand what you guys are talking about. I don't understand the singular definition of M. Nav Now I don't. Now people are saying that you can sell equity below nav for cash and that's accretive. I don't understand that. I don't, like, this stuff doesn't make any sense to me. And I don't. I also don't think that people can just not be productive in the marketplace and just collect this, like, yield. Like if you extend it to an egregious thought of what if nobody in the world works and everyone just like, buys a preferred equity that gives them yield? Like, would that work? And no, of course not. Society would shut down. Bitcoin would not go up. Like, like, it just doesn't make any sense to me. And that's what I said. Okay, now I get off the panel. Someone on the panel was from strive. His name's Ben, super nice guy. And I met him before. And after the panel I said, hey, I just want to like, come shake your hand and say it's none. None of this is personal. Like, I think people on the Internet are making it like, I'm out to get you. I just can't sit up here and co sign statements that I don't understand or that I don't believe in. But it doesn't mean I think you're a bad guy. It doesn't mean I don't think you're a bitcoiner. And I just want to shake your hand and let you know that. And I Could be wrong, and you could be way smarter than me. And I'm willing to admit that, like I said, no ego at all. As long as bitcoin is successful and I'm healthy and my fiance's good, like, I'm good. And he was like, dude, no stress, man. Like, don't worry about it. I get it. If you have a second, I'm happy to explain how I think about things. And so I'm chatting with the guy I call my Uber. I'm going to get in my Uber. And Dylan, who you guys know, my chief of staff who sits in the chat, he gets a text from someone in the audience who said, sailor is on right now, and said, hey, I heard Jack's questions. If Jack wants to ask me these questions in person and not make these, like, if he wants to do it, tell him to come back and ask them to me right now. And so Dylan says, yo. Saylor says, come ask the questions. You want to go ask the questions? And I was like, sure, fuck it. Why not? And so we canceled our Uber and we walked back in. So that's the truth. That's what actually happened. This was not, like a premeditated attack. I didn't. I wasn't planning on asking the questions there, but I have no problem. Like, what's the problem with questions? So I asked the questions. That's the clip that went around. And then I just want to point this out. The next day, Michael had a keynote, and he was going through the whole bitcoin space. And let me zoom in here, because in his slide, he puts winners, Coinbase, Binance, BlackRock, Block, Fidelity, Strategy and Tether Challengers, Anchorage, Anchor Watch, Bitwise, Capital B, Fold, Gemini, Hodl, Hodl, Kraken. Meanwhile, Meta Planet, Nydig, Orange, btc, Relay River, Robinhood, Schwab, Smarter Web, Strive, tando, trezor, unchained, 21 shares losers blockfi, celsius, FTX, genesis, mount gox, signature, silk road, silvergate, voyager. Okay, what two companies are not in his slide? Strike in 21. Do you guys think that that's an accident? And so the other thing I want to say is I get accused of being a child. I get accused of being immature. I get accused of lashing out. This is my show. Nobody can misclip this. Nobody could bias my words or twist my truth. I got no problem with anybody. I got asked to come back, so I came back. All I'm doing, these are really simple questions. I'm not trying to offend anyone. I'm simply trying to Go about my journey. I like forming my own opinions. I like following my own curiosity. But I mean, this, like, 21, by the way, 21 is the second largest corporate holder of bitcoin in the world. To leave them out of this slide is insane. We own the second largest bitcoin. Strike is the biggest bitcoin of all the companies on this slide that are like bitcoin only companies that are, you know, either startup or becoming businesses, younger businesses. Strike is bigger than all of them by far. By far. And everyone knows that. So I also. I mean, whatever, like, for people that call me a child, I actually, I've been through a lot in my life. I think I'm fairly mature. But I also felt it necessary to make this video because, like, what are we doing? I'm asking questions. And also, by the way, like, nobody gave me a phone call. Nobody said, like, hey, hey, dude. Like, you know, this really hurt my feelings. Like, none of that, none of that. I just got texted this, like, yo, people are pissed at you. Like, now. Now, like, your companies are getting, like, attacked. I'm like, for what? Why are my companies getting attacked? So let's get into the questions, Section 1. Why am I asking questions? What are my motivations and what are my conflicts? Why are you asking these questions publicly? I kind of just answered that, but my. Generate my slide generator here. But let me. Let me spend a little bit more time. So this tweet from this guy Biddy. I don't know, whatever. I don't know how to pronounce that. He tweeted. It's great to see cj, who's the strategy head of investor relations. It's great to see CJ willing to explain the details of these metrics to Jack. Jack is a CEO of a publicly traded company. Seems to be odd to be having these discussions in public. It's cool to see CJ offer discussions with Jack one on one. Kind of a funny way to phrase that, but whatever. And my response was, ego is expensive. People take themselves too seriously. The moment that you think you're above asking questions is usually the moment you stop learning. Yes, I am the CEO of a public company. That does not place me above anyone else or mean I have nothing left to learn. Public conversation is good. Open source is good. Asking questions is good. Curiosity is good. So why am I asking questions publicly? I've explained this now a few times. I fundamentally do not believe in ego. I do not believe in taking myself too seriously. Why do I wear hoodies? Why do I sit in an empty closet. Because who cares? Because we're all humans and it's. You only get one life. Enjoy it. Wear what you want, do what you want. Believe in and do what you care most about. Public discourse is healthy. It's good. I remember back in the day, US Bitcoiners, there was, during the block size wars, there was the New York agreement where the future of bitcoin was supposedly decided in a boardroom in New York behind closed doors. Like, what are we talking about? This is bitcoin. Is this. Why am I having conversations publicly? Like, what? Is this a serious question? Okay, other than that, I wanted to point out. This is a research report from nydig, and the title of it is Strategies Results highlight a structural shift in dax. And it writes in today's issue, Strategy acknowledged for the first time since 2020 that it could sell Bitcoin to fund dividends, signaling a broader treasury management approach, a different one. As the preferred stack grows, management disclosed that MSTR's issuance is only BPS accretive above 1.22 times MNAV. But this is largely due to differing dilution assumptions embedded in MNAV versus bps. Next bullet. The DAT models are increasingly splitting into three categories, levered Bitcoin vehicles, operating companies, and active digital asset managers, making uniform valuation frameworks less useful. Bitcoin's current drawdown remains materially shallower than other prior price cycles, despite the $19 billion in liquidations. And then the first section, it says, strategy earnings highlight the increasing complexity of Bitcoin treasury models. And so I also wanted to make the point. This is not a Jack Mallers thing. This is not a me thing. This is not a empty closet, kid in the hoodie thing. NYDIG published this on May 8, 2026. So over a month ago. It is not just me that. As more information comes out, no one's upset, nobody's accusing anyone of anything. People are just a little confused. We have questions. Okay, Another example, this is from Jeff park. This is May 14, 2025. So this is not over a month ago. This is over a year ago. And he wrote, BPs and MNav, when taken together, are intellectually inconsistent. BPS is per share, so it does not incorporate leverage, but it should. And mnav, despite the name, net asset value, which excludes liabilities, is using ev, which traditionally includes debt. This is what I've been saying. These details matter. Then he follows up and he says, you already know I love Bitcoin corpse. I believe this will be the most important and significant adoption trend for this cycle. But at the same time we must self regulate as a group. We with the mindset of being fiduciaries first to achieve the great things. That's how we will win. So this guy who's awesome, I've met Jeff, he's been an incredible analyst for Bitcoin. He said what I've been saying for over a year. So this is not like people saying, I'm doing this on publicly, on purpose. I want attention. I have misaligned incentives. This is not a me thing. Let me share something else with you guys too. I have meetings on Wall street all the time with some of the biggest banks in the world, biggest firms in the world, because I'm the CEO of 21. And in a lot of my meetings people say, hey, how are you thinking about the preferred stuff? It doesn't totally make sense to us yet. And I say, I also don't get it. I also don't understand. And for the longest time I've kind of kept my mouth shut because I just didn't really get even what to ask. I was like a non callable perpetual, preferred. Like that doesn't make sense to me. I wonder. And I was like, patient, let's see how this goes. And then after an earnings call and updated metrics is enough information where I'm like, all right, hold on a second. We don't even know what M. Nav is. We don't even know what dilution is. Like now, like, I'm at the point where like I have questions, which is fine. Call me an idiot. Like I said, I have no ego. I'm happy being wrong. My point is like being I'm not going to be a guy that sits in a suit in a C suite with a fancy title and is like, ah, yes, of course I agree. How could I ever disagree? Like, I'll never be that. And if, if you don't want to know, own an equity in a company run by a guy like that, or you don't want to use the products of a guy like that, then you're not going to be my customer, you're not going to be my investor. But it's never who I'm going to be. That's not what I believe in. That's how I don't think the world needs another one of those, like political, corporate yes men. I just don't think so. So anyways, I also was on my way to the gym this morning and I caught this new podcast by Marty Bent and they were talking about all of this and me And I just want to play the clip real quick. Something has changed recently. I know. I'm worried for him. To your point about M Nav, like Maller's asked him the question I guess in Prague a couple days ago about it and he gave a 10 minute long winded answer that was sort of a non answer. And then today he gave us an excluded strike from, from the, from the slide of emerging bitcoin companies which was I think a bit pedantic. Yeah, Yep. And look, Jack's always been call like a bitcoin vanguard and I think he's saying what the market is feeling. He's got a platform that breaches that barrier there, which is like generally speaking, Saylor was supported and there's a, an immune response within bitcoin that we're not going to allow a deceptive person in our midst to go uncalled out. And he's now. Okay, I'm not going to play the rest of that because people are going to mistake those words as mine. But what I did want to say is one, I appreciate those words. They mean a lot to me. I do, I try, I try. And like I just said, I'm not going to continue to repeat myself and potentially blend the line of complimenting myself. I, it's. I want people to be open, authentic, real. I think that's what bitcoin gives to the world. I think bitcoin is like an authentic truth pill to the world. All of this like corporate behind closed doors, like all this stuff. And by the way, I have plenty of conversations behind closed doors. I tweeted it, but the STRIVE guys reached out to me and said, yo dude, we just want to make sure there's no bad blood. We'd love to explain how we do things like, want to get some coffee? And they were super nice and they came all the way to my hotel because there was, it was kind of scary. I mean Dylan was notified that there was like security threat to me or something like there. The conference security was worried about my safety. Super, super weird. Anyway, they were very nice. They came to my hotel so that I didn't have to leave because I've never had security. I don't want to have to live my life that way. And they were, they were great and they were super good guys. I mean I told them, listen guys, I don't get necessarily like all that you're doing, but it doesn't mean I don't like you and it doesn't mean like we can't both like bitcoin but they were great guys. And so all my point here is I just want to, want to be truthful, want to be honest, want to be myself. I, I think that within itself is also a product. Yes, we can launch no fee dcas, we can launch cross border payments over lightning. But even just getting on CNBC in the empty closet and telling these people, like, dare to be different. Dare to follow your dreams, dare to think differently, dare to challenge what you've been told. Dare to think for yourself, dare to believe in yourself. Like, you know, that's just my thing. I really think that that matters. So. And I, I really do go out of my way to do that. So I appreciate these words. And yeah, that's, that's why I'm asking the questions. Because they're, because they're questions like, who cares? And if they're simple questions like, why can't I get an answer? One plus one equals two. Like, what the. What are we talking about? All right, next question. Would you be asking these questions if you weren't the CEO of 21? The answer is yes. Okay. Things like bitcoin, capital structures, Austrian economics, monetary theory. These are things I've been interested in since I was 18. These are things I care deeply about. And that's before or without strike or 21 if 21 fails tomorrow. And if Strike fails tomorrow, I still won't understand everything I'm talking about right now. The only time I will understand it is when I get answers that make sense to me. Which, by the way, maybe I never understand it, and maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I'm the idiot that's never gonna get it, and that's fine. I'll lose out on owning these money market fund things or whatever. I don't know. It doesn't really matter. But the point is, of course, I'd still be answering these. If you guys don't know me that well by now, now you do. I'm not doing this for any, like, secret interest of mine. This is just. This is who I am. And I didn't register my Twitter account under a pseudonym. I don't live behind an avatar, like, for bad or for good. There's a lot of shit that comes with, like, all the public figure stuff, but I think it's important. And this is me. It's also worth saying I am the CEO of 21. So we are, in some sense viewed as a potential competitor to strategy. And I just want to let people know I get it. Like, I'm not mad at you for saying, like, whoa, what's your incentive? What the fuck, man? Like, you're trying to do this. I get it. I'm not accusing you of anything. I'm not saying you're wrong. It makes sense. It's kind of a complicated situation. I'm the CEO of this other company, and I'm out here asking questions. What the hell's going on? This is the. This is. This guy's got a motive. I get it. All I can do is come on my own show where nobody can misconstrue my words and say, that's not my agenda. It's just not. And so what I have down here in the bottom is I encourage everyone, and this goes for my questions and opinions, no matter what. Like, when I say I'm a bitcoin bull, someone can say, yo, yeah, of course you are, because you own 43,514 Bitcoin. Duh. I can't take that opinion seriously. And they'd be right. I have a bias. Like, I own bitcoin, so of course I'm a bitcoin bull. So anything I say, whether it's on this topic or not, I encourage you all to critique it and think of it from a neutral party. Think of if someone asked it or said it that was anonymous. Or think of someone that asked it and said it that wasn't in the position I'm in. I want my ideas and my thoughts and my actions to be judged on their merit alone, not based on any credential that I have, not based on any bias that I might have. And that goes both ways. But, like, my whether, questions, opinions, ideas, like, they should be judged just off the merit of them alone. And so anytime you're like, oh, I wonder if he has an incentive, just take what I'm saying and just, like, put it in a neutral setting and judge it there. Okay. So, anyways, would I be asking these questions if I was not the CEO of 21 or Strike? Yes, 100%. But I get it. I understand why that would be a question or why that would be an accusation. There's just not a lot I can do. I mean, what do you want me to do? Like, trash? Like, resign and throw away my company so that I can ask questions like, what, the fog? Of course not. So, anyway, there's the answer to that one. Are you trying to hurt strategy or Saylor? Am I malicious and I'm trying to damage other people's careers or companies? The answer is no. I'll say it again, you know, because People say, like, all the. All I see is this guy opening his mouth and trashing Michael or trashing other companies. You know, all you're seeing is people clipping me on Twitter. And that type of content gets engagement because it's very divisive and it's very polarizing. But I've said a million times, and I'll continue to say, Michael, what Michael has achieved is out of this world. It's one of the craziest stories I've ever seen. It's amazing. And we all, as bitcoiners, owe Michael a lot because if anything, he showed the world that a public company can hold bitcoin and can hold conviction on their balance sheet. Mind you, all these public companies before Michael, it was just like a pile of T bills and cash that was just bleeding away. And Michael's done so much for education about bitcoin awareness, for bitcoin. And like, I've said that, and I'll continue to say that I have no problem. I don't want anybody that likes bitcoin to fail. And a healthy bitcoin treasury space, a healthy bitcoin space, a healthy bitcoin startup space, a healthy. Everything about bitcoin is good for the world that I want to live in and I want to have kids in, period, straight up. So I, like, there's no part of me that wishes failure on anybody at all. And these are the clips that you don't see on Twitter, but hopefully when people are arguing on Twitter, people can say, hey, yo, check out this timestamp where Jack is like, all for everybody winning. I have no problem. I'm very grateful. Here's the other thing. As a bitcoiner, you have to have the most unbelievable amount of gratitude for everybody that's contributed to this thing, because bitcoin has changed all of our lives in such a serious way. And we in turn have played such a minuscule part in that. I've done jack shit compared. How do I. How do I articulate this? What I've done for bitcoin pales in comparison for what bitcoin's done for me. Bitcoin has materially changed everything about me. Who I am as a man, how I think, how I behave, the savings I have, how I believe in my future. Bitcoin has quite literally saved my life in many respects. Now, have I done the same for bitcoin? Have I materially changed bitcoin and saved bitcoin and all the shit? No. If I didn't exist, bitcoin wouldn't give A fuck. It'd be so successful without me. And so you have such gratitude for everybody's contributions, and that includes Michael. For me, like, I'm so grateful. We all are. That's never been a question, ever. Next question. Why don't you just ask Saylor privately at dinner? Okay, this slide. So Michael tweeted yesterday. I think it was. I don't remember. Yeah, June 14, yesterday. He tweets this long thread, which I reference later. So I'll get into it later about, like, how there's now, like, all sorts of new metrics and new ways to judge strategy. There's bp. BPS measures bitcoin per common share before senior claims. C E, B, E, B, P S measures bitcoin per common share after senior claims. C E, B, E is the conservative risk metrics. BPS is the common equity growth metric. B BTC yield measures BPS execution. Okay, this is all new. Their quarterly earnings had new information. They file 8Ks that has new information. Nydig is writing research reports about this. Jeff park is tweeting about this. This is far too much new information to just go to dinner. I'd have to go to dinner every single night. And the other thing is, it's just a waste of time. We go to dinners when we're in town in the same city and we eat dinner and we catch up. Or sometimes we'll text each other on signal. And this isn't just for Michael. This is everybody in the space. I happily hand out my signal. Anybody can call me. I call people all the time. It's a very, like, it's an open networks win type of thing. Like, we're all on the same team. But, like, come on. I mean, I'm not gonna sit and go out of my way and waste my time having dinner every single night and scheduling my day full of meetings when I can just ask simple questions. Like. But the point is, there's so much new information. Like, three months ago it was okay, there's bitcoin per share, and that's what matters. Fast forward. I don't know what we're talking about anymore. I have no idea what dilution is, I swear to you. Like this one from Adam back. So Adam and I were going back and forth on Twitter, and by the way, I saw Adam in Prague. Gave him a big hug. Talk about being grateful for someone. Adam invented proof of work. Like, what the fuck that. Like, I. I arguably by proxy, owe so much to Adam. Love, Adam, Sweetest guy. Never done a bad thing to me. But we don't agree on this topic, or he knows things that I don't, I guess. And so I write to him this long thing. You guys can pause it and zoom in if you want. The point is, he responds to me and he says, I'm not sure their $180 million ATM transaction is dilutive or not. There's a concept called forward mnav. Adam wrote this to me, like, three days ago, and I'm sitting here like, what? Forward mnav. Guys, mind you, none of these are traditional metrics. These are all metrics that are. Have been invented recently, which is fine. That's not a problem. You're allowed to invent and do whatever you want. But of course, some people like me aren't gonna understand. You can't just invent shit and expect everybody to get it. So I'm sitting here like, forward mnav. Is that a real thing? Have I ever heard that before? And so I Google it, and the only result that comes up is from bitcointreasuries.net so this is not like a real financial metric that's been used in markets for a long time. This is just a recently created metric. And read the definition. Forward MNAV stands for a hypothetical market net asset value. And so, like, what? So we don't know if a transaction is dilutive or not because of a hypothetical future. This. I mean, guys, we can't be serious right now. Hypothetical M nav. If I raised a series C for strike, and all my employees went into their dashboard to see how much equity they have in the company, and the amount of equity they have in the company got cut in half, and they said, jack, what the fuck? We all got diluted. And I said, that's not diluted. You're not taking into account the Forward M Nav, like some hypothetical future. No, I mean, it's dilutive now. You know, can we put the capital to work and make. Make the equity more valuable than otherwise before? Of course. Yeah, but, like, forward M nav. So anyway, why do I ask the questions publicly? Why don't I just fly to wherever Adam is and have dinner with them? Because, guys, like, I'm too busy for that. What are we talking about? I'm not one. I think public conversation is good. I think talking in the open is good. I think questions are good. Mind you, you guys should go on my public profiles and see how engaging I am. People ask me shit all the time. I make sure I take time out of my day, read all the YouTube comments, respond to people on Twitter. You guys can Ask me whatever you want, whenever you want. Because people say, like, wow, you know, throwing stones from a glass house, asking all these questions. Why don't you answer questions people have for you, brother? I host a live Q and A. So it's not, like, edited. I don't hand it to a lawyer. I come live. No ads. I don't have a team that runs this show. I run this show by myself. And I do live Q and A as a public company CEO and the CEO of one of the biggest financial service firms in the bitcoin industry. So I answer questions every week. And so I don't know, man, I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna fly around the world having dinners behind closed doors to figure out these metrics that these guys are creating, which, it's fine. You create whatever metrics you want. And by the way, all these guys have been unbelievably successful. This is not a diss. It's just like, how was I supposed to know what forward MNAV was? And I still don't get it. So I guess a transaction could never be dilutive if we are just waiting to see what the. No one knows the future. So then if nothing's dilutive, then what are we talking about? Oh, man. Anyway, sorry, it's gonna be a long episode, but I really think it's worth it. So I. I wanted to point out this tweet. So Faju quote tweets this and says this is nearly as absurd as community adjusted ebitda. And what is Community adjusted ebitda? Community adjusted EBITDA is a financial metric that we work just created out of thin air. That was adjusted ebitda, which is a real metric, but they added a bunch of other things to take out. So Community adjusted EBITDA is a controversial non GAAP financial metric invented by WeWork to measure operating performance at the building and community level. It excludes standard operating costs such as marketing, general and administrative expensive and other development costs, often framing underlying losses as profits. And so the point of me saying this is. I'm not saying. So I put on here huge disclaimer. Disclaimer. I am not accusing strategy of being we work. I'm not accusing Adam of being we work. All I'm saying is Faji's tweet, is he saying this is as nearly as absurd as community adjusted ebitda. What he's saying is business owners are just creating metrics out of thin air that aren't. They aren't. I don't want to say real metrics. Because you know, doesn't mean they're not real. But they aren't traditional metrics. Like I can't go into a meeting and be like, well you factor in the forward M Nav and the C E, B E B P s then like, like that these aren't, these aren't like these. I don't know when these were invented or who invented them or how they should be applied. Like, I don't know any of this stuff. And, and by the way, nobody does. Like I'm telling you on my meetings in Wall street. And, and Saylor said this to me and he's probably right. He's like, this is a brand new industry. These are brand new ideas. It's going to take time. Like I don't expect everyone to know these things. So I'm not accusing anyone. Like, I'm not saying like, you know, that's what Michael said to me in his answer. He was like, dude, these are brand new ideas. Like it's going to take time. That's fine. But I don't understand them. No one in my meetings and Wall street understands them. A lot of other people on Twitter don't understand them. And so I'm just saying when. So what I wrote on here is this is an example of relying solely on new metrics defined by the company themselves and why it is healthy to ask questions if you don't understand the answers yet. That's all I'm doing. So why do I ask questions publicly? Like that's why. Okay, what do I actually claim to understand? Next section of questions. What is M Nav then, Jack? Okay, M Nav as I understand it, enterprise value, like enterprise value is a very known. But things like M Nav, well, M Nav is a, is a new metric. But enterprise value for a company is a well established thing. Like we don't need to, in my opinion, invent a bunch of new stuff to understand it. Like, like what assets does a company have is a known thing. So enterprise value is how Wall street values companies. It accounts for the full capital stack, which is equity, debt and cash. And it's per accounting standards. There's a typo here. So you know, in this last slide, let me go back where the we work metric, what they call it Community Adjusted ebitda. That's crazy that they did that. Holy shit. It says non GAAP financial metric. So the point that I'm making here on this slide is that enterprise value is how people have been accounting for things per accounting standards. Like it's a very known thing. It's the metric used in every M and A and by every research analyst. It's a very universally understood thing. The example I've given now ad nauseam is if a company has a stock at $10 and they raise a convertible bond that converts at 30%, that means it would convert at 13, right? Per share. And it's accretive because you're effectively selling stock at 13, which is where they'll inevitably convert when your stock's at 10. So you're selling a premium stock price to buy Bitcoin. That's why it's accretive. But if your stock in the meantime is at $5 and they haven't converted yet, then that does not count as equity because they aren't close to converting. That would be debt. And in like very normal ev, like if someone wanted to buy that company that they wouldn't classify that as equity, they would classify it as debt. Okay, so if you want a NAV multiple for a Bitcoin treasury company, you know, using the old, using the classic standards, the standards that have been used for many decades, that's what people call, I think, basic M Nav. I don't know because there's so many M Navs. Now I'm not trying to be performative, I'm being serious. I don't want to, you know, misquote myself, but I think it's called Basic M Nav, which is like 21's below NAV, strategy's below nav, meta planet's below nav, everyone's below nav. Like all these companies are trading below nav according to like the normal definition. So that's what I thought MNAV was. Now I don't know what it is anymore, or maybe it's different depending on the company. But again, I just don't know why. So I wrote here in the bottom. Enterprise value is easy to calculate and universally understood. Creating a lot of different metrics makes things complex and very difficult to understand. Why create a novel metric when a well established one already captures the same information? So that's basically the question that I've had. So what is mnav? I thought it was a standard thing, but I guess it is changing, which could be fine. Like I said, it's an, it's an innovative industry, it's in, in its nascency years. So who knows, but I just don't. It's hard to follow, it's hard to understand where these applied, how to judge the business. I don't get it. What is bitcoin per share and why is it not the same as M Nav? Okay, this one's really interesting. So going back to Jeff Park's tweet, Bitcoin per share and M Nav, when taken together, are intellectually inconsistent. Bitcoin per share is per share, so it does not incorporate leverage, but it probably should. And M Nav, despite the name net asset value, which exclude excludes liabilities, is using enterprise value, which traditionally includes debt. These details matter. And so Jeff is pointing out that bitcoin per share and M Nav are not what he he calls them intellectually inconsistent. They are telling different stories. And he's pointing out that's probably not a good thing. That's potentially misleading or at the very least, it's very counterintuitive. Now going to NYDIG's research report. This is not me, guys. This is from NYDIG's research report. I will read it directly. Another interesting disclosure from the quarter and they're talking about strategies Q1 filing. Another interesting disclosure from the quarter involved the relationship between MNAV and Bitcoin per share. Accretion management indicated that issuing MSTR equity becomes accretive to Bitcoin per share only when the Stock trades above 1.22 MNAV rather than 1.0. The company attributed the higher threshold to the increasing size size of its preferred equity stack. The underlying mechanics appear largely driven by differing metrics metric conventions. Bitcoin per share is calculated using assumed diluted shares outstanding, which incorporates potential dilution from convertible notes, convertible preferred stocks options in RSUs. By contrast, M NAV is based on enterprise value relative to its Bitcoin holdings with the market capitalization component using basic shares outstanding with convertible debt and preferred counted as liabilities in their notional amounts. The result is that two widely referenced metrics within the Bitcoin treasury ecosystem rely on different share count assumptions, producing outcomes that can appear unintuitive at first glance. So the whole point is these two metrics are like totally forking off from each other. They're not using the same. Like why are they not using the same things? Is one of the questions I have. Again, I'm not insulting anyone. I'm not trying to be an. These are not my questions. These are questions throughout the whole industry of why are we using different ways to convert stock depending on the metric? Because then if people say like, oh, that was dilutive or that was accretive and they're pointing at these metrics, we're all assuming that they're calculated using the same stuff, but they're not. And I'm like what the hell? Why? Or why not? Or I don't know. Come on man. God, give me a break. I can already see the comments of of people saying like shut up you nepo bab baby. This is from strategies actual 8k. So after all of this and I'm getting blasted online, I'm like, all right, maybe I need to read the actual filing. Because that's another thing Sailor said in his answer. He was like, dude, everyone actually reads all my filings and puts them in their AIs. Like if you're not actually reading all of our 8Ks, then like you should. Whatever. So I'm like, okay, I'll go read the actual 8k. Now this part I found interesting because it validated everything I'm saying. This is from their 8k in calculating these KPIs, the company does not consider the source of capital used for the acquisition of its Bitcoin. When the Company purchases Bitcoin using proceeds from offerings of non convertible notes or or non convertible preferred stocks or convertible notes or preferred stock that carry conversion prices above the current trading price of the Company's common stock or conversion rights that are not then exercisable, such transactions have the effect so this is the important part. Such transactions have the effect of increasing Bitcoin per share, increasing Bitcoin yield, increasing Bitcoin gain, and increasing Bitcoin dollar gain, while also increasing the Company's indebtedness and senior claims of holders of instruments other than the Class A common stock with respect to the dividends and the Company's assets, including its Bitcoin. So basically, hold on, let me read this part. I know it's long, and I know this is a bunch of like lawyer speak, but this is the most important sentence. If the Company were to liquidate in a manner that is not reflected in these metrics. So not reflected in these metrics. If any of the Company's convertible notes mature or redeemed without being converted into common stock, or if the Company elects to redeem or repurchase its non convertible instruments, the Company may be required to sell shares of its Class A common stock or Bitcoin to generate sufficient cash proceeds to satisfy those obligations, either of which would have the effect of decreasing the Bitcoin per share BTC yield, BTC gain BTC dollar gain and adjustments for such decreases are not contemplated by the assumptions made in calculating these metrics. Accordingly, these metrics might overstate the accretive nature of the Company's use of capital to buy Bitcoin. I'm going to read that part again. Oh my goodness. Accordingly, these metrics might overstate the accretive nature of the company's use of capital to buy Bitcoin. Because not all Bitcoin is purchased using the proceeds of issuance of class, Class A common stock. So again, I like this is just another example of in their filings, they're basically saying the metric might not tell you the full story. Which is fine. The companies, I'm not accusing the company of lying. They're, they're literally disclosing it. They're being as transparent as they possibly can. So shout out to strategy for this. But it just verifies my confusion of like, well then how are we supposed to use these metrics? How are they calculated? So anyways, I then someone tags me in a Twitter thread and I start asking the questions to Strategies head of ir, this dude named cj. I've never met him, from my experience on Twitter, seems like an absolutely great dude. He was super open and answering questions. A lot of other people were following the thread and found a lot of value in it. Really great. And so he says, thanks for clarifying your questions. You're correct that bitcoin per share doesn't reflect senior claims as highlighted in our risk disclosures. That's why I read the risk disclosures. He also goes on to say, and this is. I'm not trying to shortcut his answer. You guys can go on the Internet and read his answer. Obviously, I'm just trying to. This is going to turn into a really long show. So I'm just trying to speed up a little bit. He says, you're correct that the bitcoin per share KPI and the standard MNAV valuation don't directly map to each other. And that's a bit non intuitive. So the guy that runs Strategies Investor Relations just agreed with me, you're correct that bitcoin per shares KPI and the standard MNET valuation don't directly map and that it's a bit non intuitive. Duh. Okay, so not only do I have the question, Nydig has the question, Jeff park has the question, lots of people have the question. But the guy that works at Strategy is citing their own 8K and saying like, yeah, totally, that's not intuitive. So, okay, so what is this 1.22 accretion threshold? Where did it come from? What does it mean that things are dilutive unless it's above 1.22. This is, I think what Saylor is talking about here. I still don't fully understand this tweet. BPS measures bitcoin per common share before senior claims. CBE BPS measures Bitcoin per common share after senior claims. CBE is the con conservative risk metric. BPS is the common equity growth metric. BTC yield measures BPS execution. So I think he's trying to tell us how to think about the company. I just don't, I, I don't understand what he's saying yet. I'm sure I'll get there. I need. I was traveling and I've got other in my life, so just gonna take me a second. But this was from their CJ shout out. Cj. He attached this to his tweet. And this was from their Q1 deck. Their board. Their board earnings call. And basically to make a really long story short, basically what they're saying is the M NAV doesn't account for the preferreds. And so that's obviously not good because there's no free lunch. You can't just raise unlimited preferreds and not have any of the risk associated with what's accretive and what's dilutive. And so they're adding in this buffer which does account for the preferreds, but it's on top of the M nav. So when people say strategies, M Nav is above one, it's accretive. No, that's not true. According to them and their disclosures in their earnings call, it has to be above 1.22 now. But that 1.22 is probably old because that was Q1 earnings. Every time they issue more preferreds that number goes up because you have to accretively issue MSTR above the stack of preferreds. And that's why I'm saying like why this metric got super complicated. And when you have. Again, you guys know my basic question. When you have the four, you have Bitcoin, common equity, preferred equity debt. How do you make all four happy? It just the capital structure is a lot more complex nowadays. Doesn't mean it's bad. Could be genius financial engineering, but it's just definitely more complicated. And so that's what the 1.22 number is. I don't. But the other thing is I don't know what the number is now. I'm sure I can calculate it. Maybe I'll build a tool and a website to calculate it. I don't know. But that's kind of what they're talking about. And so anyways, hopefully that was helpful. What is M nav? What's the difference between bps and M Nav. I still don't have my answers. People are like, you're asking questions all the time. You've gotten your answers. Shut up. I haven't gotten my. I'm working through my answers. I'm trying to be as transparent as I can here. I'm working on it and you can't tell me I'm not. I'm reading. I'm on my flight home. I'm reading 8Ks out here. Who's. Who's. Who's out here reading 8K's on their fly home? Okay, I'm trying. So I'm trying to figure it out. I'll figure it out. I'm a smart dude. I'll get there. But I can't tell you that I totally understand all of these new metrics that have been invented and how to apply them and what's accretive and what's dilutive. Because if I go right now to strategy.com, the M. Nav is not 1.22 and I think the 1.22 is old. So all the MSTR that's being sold according to them isn't accretive. Right. But that's not true because they're saying it is accretive and they wouldn't lie. I mean, obviously. So that's why I just don't totally get it yet. So anyway, let's move on. So what, what do I not like about the metrics that are currently being used? I kind of answered that. But it's not that I dislike them. I just want to make this point. They might just obscure more than they reveal. I think the question is like, do they? Are they more helpful than they are confusing? And I also might not be the target audience. Like strategy could be achieving all the success that they've ever wanted and they don't give a fuck about my opinion. They probably shouldn't. And so I wouldn't blame them if they don't. Who cares? But that's basically where I'm coming from. I don't totally understand it. So it's not that I dislike them, it's that I don't understand them. So you've got MNAV BTC yield, BTC torque, C, B, C, E, B, E, B, P S. These are all novel, recently invented things and they're invented by the company that's applying them. Which also makes it like doubly as confusing because it's not like these were invented and applied in many different ways. They're like recently invented for the company that's applying them. So that's why I have been confused and why I can't say I'm like the biggest fan. And again, I encourage you guys to read the 8K if you want just this specific part because they literally say what I'm saying. Accordingly, these metrics might overstate or understate the accretive nature of the company's use of capital. So they literally say our metrics might not tell you the accuracy, like the accurate, not how do I want to say truth, but that, that's what's in their filing. Their filing literally says accordingly, these metrics might overstate or understate. So like, yeah, I just wonder how, like if, if they're confusing to the broader. You know, we obviously don't want bitcoin and our story and these companies like being confusing to Wall street and to other investors into retail. But who knows, maybe I'm an idiot and whatever, right? Like, I also, I, I'm not an MSTR shareholder. I never have been. I've never bought Stretch. So I'm also not the target demographic, which is fine. Also, this is from NYDIG. This is December 5th and I'm just citing NYDIG just because I find them to be credibly neutral. Research. I, I think their research is unbelievable. They wrote this in December so over six months ago. DAT financing decisions are being driven by the wrong metric. DATs are making billion dollar financing decisions based on inconsistent, loosely defined metrics, risking major strategic missteps with several companies trading right around 1 times m nav. Small changes in valuation methodology can flip capital markets choices from issuing equity to buy Bitcoin to the selling Bitcoin to buy back equity. A full NAV framework exposes these distortions and delivers clearer, more accurate guidance for financing dilution and bitcoin acquisition strategy. So I would encourage you guys to read these research reports because again around this time I was reading these and and people on Wall street were asking me questions and I didn't have answers. I was like, I also am confused. I also think, think these metrics are changing really fast. They're telling different stories. I don't know when these transactions are going down. Are they dilutive? Are they accretive? Like I don't know if anybody knows. What do you think these recent transactions or why do you think these recent transactions are not accretive? So I wouldn't go as far to say this is a question people have been asking me. I wouldn't go as far as to say that I think they're not accretive. But what I will say is is I'm not sure. So I thought that this back and forth on Twitter between Quinn and Dylan was interesting. For the record, both these dudes are awesome. I've met Dylan in real life. I've hung out with him a few times. Dylan's the man. Super impressive guy. Younger than me, stud. And Quinn I've never met. I'd love to meet Quinn. I watch the Forward guidance show every week. Those guys Quinn, Tyler, like awesome Feijou, the Block Works guy, awesome Felix. I love their show. So if you guys. You guys should go check out Quinn's. He writes a weekly newsletter. He's very active on substack. He's a macro guy and he has really good opinions. So he tweeted Absolutely mind boggling. That strategy is still levering up. They're selling MSTR shares that are worth $0.80 on the dollar to buy $1 bills relative to its bitcoin holdings. After accounting for debt and preferred equity liabilities, MSTR's common trades at 0.8 Mnav. Okay, I view NAV the same as Quinn does, so that's my calculation. But obviously you know, as we've talked about, people disagree. So Dylan who helps run Meta Planet, he tweets back and he takes the other side. So all the people that are saying no M nav is is higher than that, he tweets. If you net the debt plus the preferreds out and the common trades at a premium as EVs over bitcoin nav outright market cap trades at a discount to BTC NAV as a result of the debt prefs you're cautioning against selling common here increases USD NAV per share while slightly decreasing bitcoin per share and leverage. Big fan of the show by the way. So Dylan saying it's about how you calculate it, isn't it? On a pure asset basis, isn't this accretive? Quinn says Thanks. I mostly disagree with the use of proceeds. Agree MSTR is the release valve that gets hit and when and will continue to but think he should be fortifying the balance sheet instead of continuing to buy Bitcoin. MSTR holders will throw in the towel in more definitively eventually. So Quinn is basically saying I disagree with you. Dylan then says the assertion being implied is more or less that MSTR common is risky as a result of the senior claims. With that in mind, common issuance at a premium to EV is credit positive for the capital structure. No, because people will then make this assertion and they'll say well, isn't this credit positive? Aren't they improving their credit worthiness? And Quinn writes, and this is. I, this is what I think as well. I don't think I though, like, I have an opinion. I'm still super confused. But Quinn writes, mstr from an investor's perspective is extremely risky as a result of the senior claims and its large premium to liquidation value. Common equity issuance at any price is always credit positive to the capital structure, which benefits the credit and the senior equity holders at the expense of the common equity holders. So you can issue equity at any price. It's always going to be credit positive, meaning it's always going to help the credit people and the senior equity people, always at the expense of who? And Quinn is saying, the common equity people. And that's what I was thinking as well. I was like, okay, which, by the way, no problem. You have the bitcoin, you have the bitcoin, you have the common, you have the preferred, you have the debt. I'm not sure how you make all four happy. And so you kind of have to pick which one helps subsidize the others at any given moment. From what I can tell, I have not been explained how all four can be happy at once. And what Quinn is saying is, yeah, the common equity holders are the ones that are kind of like taking the brunt right now to improve the credit worthiness for the stretch people. Because stretch is at 95. And when people on Twitter are like, no, no, no, it's all accretive. Nobody, nobody's burdening, nobody's losing. Like, it's almost implied, like there's free lunch or something. And I'm like, what? So Quinn is saying what I think I've been saying. And then he says, the purchase of Bitcoin with its cash reserves by a company that generates severely negative cash flow equal to 4% annual common equity dilution rate and is solely relying on capital markets financing to support its debt service and preferred equity obligations is not credit positive. So he's saying, yes, you can sell common equity, and that's going to be good for the credit people. That's going to be good for the stretch people. Because the stretch people need help. Right now, their money market fund is down 5, 6%. Like, that's not cool. Like, you know, anyway, I won't even. But he's saying, generally speaking, like MSTR is, it's an equity. It's not. It's not. You're not. You can't improve the credit worthiness of this equity. He's saying a company that does. That doesn't have cash flow and that has a 4% annual common equity dilution rate that's solely reliant on capital markets and selling common equity to kind of sustain the position it's in is not credit positive. So what's my position on, like, what's been going on recently? My official answer, I don't really know. I'm trying to figure it out clearly. But I generally like, my intuition, my gut was like, oh, yeah, was what Quentin was saying. Now I'm starting to question myself because you've got all these people that I look up to and that I think are really smart are like, saying the opposite. And now I'm just generally confused. Has this already costed MSTR shareholders money? Okay, there's another question I've been getting. I don't know. This is the BTC yield. You can see the last few transactions, the numbers gone down again. You guys should own and invest in whatever you want. There are people that are tweeting at me like, I don't care if BTC yield goes down for a little bit. I'm like, great, then own whatever you want. I'm not telling you guys what to invest in. I really don't care. I'm just personally, like, I care a lot about Bitcoin, man. And. And here's the other thing. There's a lot of loud people on Twitter. You got these loud communities and these loud accounts. But there's a lot more people that DM me personally or that reach out to the support staff at Strike that are like, hey, I'm confused and I could use help. And so I'm also looking out for them, bro. At the end of the day, like, I don't know how I became a brand in this space and like a public figure that has a voice, but I do. And I take that responsibility really seriously. And there are people that come to me and trust me to, like, have their back. And I'm just trying to, like, do that, man, at the end of the day. And so I don't. If you know that you are the catching the brunt of. Of the foreseeable future because of the position you're in, I don't know why you would want to be in that position, but if you want to, that's fine. Quinn tweeted, Stretch has never traded this low into an ex dividend date, which is. Which happened on Friday. It's highly unlikely that a 25 basis point dividend increase will fix this. They might have to go over 50 basis points. So, yeah, the other thing is, like, I think that they're gonna keep sailors selling MSTR to add dollars, because adding dollars gives more confidence to the stretch vehicle that they can actually make the payments. And so I think what to me, I don't know. I don't. I don't know, guys. I wouldn't look to me for clarity on this one. I don't know. This is not my thing. 21 is not interested in this preferred stuff. I can't tell you guys, I fully understood it. But it seems like they're going to keep selling MSTR or Bitcoin to add dollars to get stretched back to 100, because clearly the market is, like, feeling a little shak, or else it'd be at 100. Right. And then the other thing is, you know, people say, well, stretch goes down as rates go down. So when rates go down, stretch will go down. And I just want to make the point. This is the effective federal funds rate. So you can see, since 2024, all it's done is come down. And so even since late last year into 2026, it's come down and stretch has gone the other way. It's only gone up. So if stretch keeps going up, that means it needs more resourcing to give the market confidence, which. And that confidence has to come from somewhere because the company doesn't have cash flow. So it either needs to sell Bitcoin, sell mstr, or suspend the dividend payments for a little bit. I don't. Each. Each one of those comes at a cost to one of the groups. Right. I'm kind of, like, explaining it as if I'm asking because I, like, now people are. It's like, making me feel crazy because I don't know of another option. So anyway, is it burdening MSTR shareholders? I don't know. That's my analysis. But other people feel differently. I'm still trying to figure it out. What is the disclosure gap? Should you read the financials and disclosures? Yeah, probably. The disclosure gap is just something known as kind of like, what's on. I'll say it like this. What's on Twitter versus what's in the 8K? They're very different. So I read the 8K and what's being said on Twitter of like, oh, anything above 1.0 is accretive is clearly not true. If you read through all the stuff, it's 1.22, but the 1.22 goes up every time they issue new preferreds. And so it's unclear. And so my, my point here is there's a gap between what's being talked about on Twitter and on podcasts and what's in the filings. And that's called the disclosure gap. Not specific to any company. That's just generally there's like what's being marketed in the world versus what's being disclosed. And I'm not accusing, I'm not saying anyone at these companies is mismarketing. It's, it's all these people online that. And I'm not saying any of them are malicious either. Like, people think they know what they're talking about or they're really passionate or they're really convicted. And it's, they might be right too, by the way. I'm clearly the one that has the questions, but it's just different than what's in the filings, which, I mean, obviously, if there's a difference there, that's important to note. What is the four stakeholder trilemma? So this is the media's. What the media is calling my questions. I guess it's crazy that the media is picking this up. I mean, it's funny that stuff on this show and we've already went over this. It's the fact that strategy has bitcoin, common equity, preferred equity debt. There's four separate groups. And the question is, how do you make them all happy when the bitcoin's underwater? The common Equity is below NAV and stretches now at 95. And it's like, who bears the cost to help everyone else? Do you sell a bunch of bitcoin to buy back some MSTR and support the stretch? Do you sell a bunch of MSTR below NAV to hold on to your bitcoin and support stretch? Or do you tell the stretch people you can't pay them for a little bit bear market? Or is there another option I'm not aware of? That's what the 4 stakeholder trilemma is. Okay, what does it mean? Am I saying strategy is going to fail? These are the last questions. No, I'm not. I'm bullish on bitcoin. I think bitcoin will succeed. And that's the entire premise of strategy and what Saylor's building. So, no, I don't think strategy is going to fail necessarily. That's not what I'm saying. Nothing about my bitcoin thesis has changed this. I don't find this anything to do with bitcoin's success journey. Bitcoin's going to succeed with or without any of us. So no, I will say that there's a path dependency. So not only does it require Bitcoin to have a certain cagr, which I believe it will, but it requires Bitcoin to do that in a fairly reliable way. So I write here, bitcoin doesn't compound smoothly. It has multi year drawdowns. And when you have perpetual preferred obligations, those don't pause, those don't go off during the bear market. So you'll find yourself in situations where it's like, okay, which group is burdening the cost of like the bear market basically. And so the asset thesis can be right on a long term view and the path to getting there can break some of the structures before it all pays off. So like for example, will. Will two times M Nav ever come back? I don't know, obviously. Right. I'm not sure. And then I write, strategy doesn't have to fail in a binary sense. Another thing that could happen is that value transfers from the common equity to the senior holders. So for example, MSTR common buyers since 2024 on a blended rate. So I'm not saying from this date in 2024 till now, I think MSTR has sold like $40 billion, something like that of common equity since 2024. And if you took the average price of all of those buys, so when they're selling, someone's buying. So of the $40 billion blended average, that common equity buyer is down about 50%. And over that same time, Bitcoin's down about 29%. And so that is, you know, the MSTR buyer for now has severely underperformed just buying Bitcoin. Now the point is you can make the opposite, is that when Bitcoin goes up, the MSTR buyer will outperform bitcoin. But they're starting from 50 down, so it's hard to measure. Like will they? I don't know. So my point is MSTR could be successful, sailor could get to a million bitcoins and beyond and stuff. But not everyone could win in their own independent investment is the other thing. So, and I don't know how we are measuring that. There's all these metrics and all this stuff. But my point on this slide is do I think mstr like am I saying that it's going to collapse? All these people like Jax doomsday analysts like, no, no, no, no, no, no, I'm not saying that at all. Not saying that. And then the last one, shut up. 21 is down. And how is 21 different than anything you're asking about, aren't you the CEO of a Treasury company is what someone tweeted at me today. Listen, let me just say something. First and foremost it sucks that 21 is not performing right now. Currently we are slightly levered bitcoin equity. We people say I've never bought Bitcoin. We raised almost 500 million dollar convertible. Note that we used to buy bitcoin. So I have bought a lot of bitcoin and so we have a little bit of leverage. We want to be an operating business with cash flow and products and we haven't been able to execute that yet. So the reality is we're slightly levered bitcoin. So if bitcoin goes up we will probably go up a little bit more. But if bitcoin goes down, we're going to go down more. And that's why when people say like Your stock's down 85% I mean they're counting it from when the pre spac equity was at 50, which I can't control that. Right. I think it was trading at like five times at one point and we weren't even approved. I wasn't even allowed to talk about wasn't even my company that was trading. It was cep. No excuses. I, I wrote in here. That's, that's why we've here, let me actually just read what I wrote. Our approval got delayed by the SEC and the government shutting down. Then Tether ended up buying out our largest shareholder. So SoftBank is no longer involved in the, with the company in any capacity. So we couldn't close any deals with that. Now the deals that are publicly being considered are Strike and Electron. These are related party transactions. Obviously I'm the CEO of Strike. How do I sell a company to myself? What are the governance around that that makes these transactions more complicated than otherwise? And so I wrote in here like it's been hard. There's no doubt about that. We've had a tough time executing. I own that. There's something you learn in being the CEO. The buck stops here. There are no excuses. It's my job to get things done. And we've been slow. And that's just a fact. And so just, just to be like, just to answer directly because the reality is I have questions and I just so happen to also be the CEO of another company that's, that's had a difficult time executing and people are like well fuck you. Like you're not, you're over there like falling on your face like yeah dude, I get like that's totally warranted. Totally. We're busting our ass. We're trying. What are we trying to do? We're trying to build something different. Okay? We're trying to build cash flows so that if we do have, you know, payments to make, we can do it with products that we're generating profit and not by selling equity or selling bitcoin. That's why I started this in the first place. So for everyone, like, aren't you running a bitcoin treasury company? Like, no, I don't want to build a bitcoin treasury company. That's not why I started 21 with tether. That's not what we're working on now. The question is, can we pull off what we want to pull off? That's the question. And the market will judge us by that, and that's what we're working on. But how am I different than what I've been saying? And what am I trying to build? And I say trying because I'm being honest with you guys. Like. Like, I'm never sitting here ever trying to convince you anything other than the truth or what I believe to be the truth. So that's a reality. I mean, people are. People throw stones, you know, like, hey, you and I get it. I wear, you know, I take punches right to the face. I've been, you know, you guys can't hurt my feelings. I say that all the time. Everything in life is for your best interest if you want it to be. Like I said, the wisdom thing, it's how you acquire experience. It's how you acquire wisdom. It's. It's where you get the credentials to. To become the man you're destined to become. So it's all good. Like, all of this is all good. Not hiding from anything. I'm not running for anything. It is kind of hilarious. I have a big following. I have questions. And I also run a company, and people throw stones at that. Like, if I was just a analyst, you know, it might be easier to try to understand my questions instead. I'm like a founder and I host my own show and all this crazy. So, anyway, yeah, like, that's all true, too. You know, 21 wants to be a different vehicle. This is. I'm not asking these questions to try and convince anyone to invest in 21. I'm not asking these questions to try and market 21. 21. I don't even consider a competitor to a bitcoin treasury company that's doing preferred stuff. I really don't like. We're trying to do something totally different than them. And like, whether we're able to achieve that is still, still to be seen. We'll see. So that's it? Just straight up truth. Own it. Own all of is what it is. Okay. Wow. This episode's long. Sorry. Felt necessary. Apologize. Grind my gears. This is less of a Grind my gears and I'll keep it shorter. I mean, this was. This was unbelievable. I woke up. So for those that don't know aren't actively on Twitter, I woke up and I woke up at three in the morning because Dylan and I had to catch our flight back from Prague to Chicago. And I saw this tweet, bro, and I was so confused. Jack Mallers, famous for filming videos in front of a giant empty walk in closet, is spotted at Prague wearing nineteen hundred dollar Dior ankle boots. What happened to closet empty, sat stacked? I'm blaming this on his fiance. And it's a picture of me at the conference. I'm not even like looking at the camera. So it's just weird life I've stumbled into where people just taking pictures of me and then analyzing and like doing research on what shoes I'm wearing. Bizarre. So whatever. I mean, I don't even like people. People were tweeting at me today like, yo, you haven't commented on the boots. Like, shut the up. Asking all these questions without talking about your boots. Like, like, dude, you guys are not serious people. This is ridiculous. But I thought it'd be funny to opine on it and also just give you guys some. So first of all, are these are those Dior boots? They are Dior boots. Let me tell you guys the story. I've owned those boots for five years. Let me tell you guys the story of how I bought those boots. They're the most expensive shoes I own. Not that I need to convince you guys of that, but whatever. I was going to a movie premiere. It was, it was Timothy Chalamet, Leonardo DiCaprio movie. What was the movie called? Dylan, don't look up. This was it. So I was going to a movie premiere in New York City. Don't look up. And after I went and this was right when like all the El Salvador shit was happening. And like I. So I. And this is right when I became friends with Saquon Barkley and through all these like new relationships and friends with these celebrities that I have. And I was like so young. I was, this is crazy. And they're like, yo, let's go to this movie premiere. Don't look up. And after we're going to go to the after party with Leonardo DiCaprio and Jonah Hill and like all these crazy guys. And I was like, holy fucking shit. And so Dylan and I, and we're like showing everyone, like, what we had packed for New York and it wasn't going to cut it. And I needed like, an outfit to go to this event. So Dylan and I go with Saquon, Barkley's fashion designer. His name is not. Not his real name. His real name is Josh. We call him Lesus Absolute Homie. And he does fashion design for Christian McCaffrey and Saquon, all these big athletes. And so he's like, yo, I help you, I'll help pick you guys out an outfit. And so we go and I get, oh, let me text my fiance and see if she can bring in my Tom Ford jacket. So I get a Tom Ford jacket, I get these Dior boots, and I go in this all black outfit. Actually, I'll pull up a picture of me at the premiere. Because it. I mean, if you guys really, like, want to stalk my boots and shit, at least let me get some crazy funny stories in here. So I go to this thing and that's why I own the boots. Now fast forward. They're the nicest boots I own by far. I mean, obviously. And I don't even think you can get nicer boots. And so. Yeah, and by the way, if you guys think my boots are expensive, wait until you figure out how much I paid for this house. Where this is the one. One of the closets in the master suite. Like, my actual closet that has all my clothes is on the other side of the hallway outside of that door. So I mean, if you guys are gonna pocket watch and be like, I can't buy nice boots, like, does that also mean I can't live in a nice house? And I'll get to that in a second. But let me find Dylan. When was that premiere? I'm trying to find the picture, cuz you guys will crack up. I look like a fucking idiot. I'm in this, like, outfit. I look like a clown. And yeah, it is what it is. I mean, it is pretty funny. And, and for. For those of you that are doing all this with a sense of humor, it is funny. I do think my boots, I mean, they're. They're crazy boots. Like, if this is what I need to stop wearing those to conferences and you guys will let me wear flip flops to do keynotes, I'm all for it. Funny enough, I asked Dylan before I Went on stage. I was like, dude, am I wearing these boots or can I wear my flip flops? These are the flip flops that I, you know, go in the airport in, and I'm always, like, lounging around. And he was like, dude, if you wear the flip flops, everyone's going to crucify you and be like, public company CEOs wearing flip flops. And I was like, yeah, you're right. I got to wear these boots. And then I wore the boots and the opposite happened. So whatever. All right, I'm waiting on Dylan to tell me the date of when we went to this movie. Don't look up, Damn it. Because now I want to make a cooler point. So I want to make the point about people saying, oh, Jack coys and pretends to be this, like, millennial, like, poor pleb that doesn't own anything to stack sats. And meanwhile, like, he's. He's got a bunch of bitcoin and cold storage and, like, spends it on nice boots. And by the way, if you. Okay, I got the date from Dylan. I'll get back to that in a second. Jack owning nice boots means he's short nineteen hundred dollars worth of bitcoin. He could have bought bitcoin instead of those boots. That's true. Let me tell you guys something that I. That happened to me today and my family that I could not be more proud of. I told. I think I told you guys last episode, but maybe I didn't. Today was my fiance's first day of not having to work the job that she hates or hated. Might I proudly correct myself? When I met. Oh, I almost said her name. When I met my fiance, she just, like, really couldn't stand her job. It was a cause of a lot of stress. She'd have anxiety, trouble sleeping. I mean, it's normal stuff, right? Like, you know, sometimes job is just what pays the bills, brings in the income. Not everyone has their dream job. And, you know, it's not that she, like, it was the death of her, obviously. I fell in love with her ten times over anyway, but she hated it. And over the time since I've met her, I've been stacking sats, busting my ass, working hard. And, you know, she's always. I've always told her, like, hey, you know, I want to financially provide for us. I don't want you to have to do anything that you don't want to do. And my dream is that you do whatever you want with your life and your time. I want you to be able to pursue passions. She wants to get into long distance running. And that's what I wanted for her. And she was like, no, no, we need to be engaged first. We need to be committed to each other. I'm not going to quit my job. Just like after meeting this guy who like runs this bitcoin company and this bitcoin thing. And so after we got engaged, which was in April, I sat her down and said, hey, like, I hate seeing you so upset. I hate seeing you so stressed out. I've worked super hard and I've been super fortunate and lucky for all the people like you guys listening to this that support me, you can quit your job. Like, I got your back. And she did. And today was her first day where she got to do what she wanted. And we spent the morning together where I usually drive her to work, we got coffee and she went for her long distance run. And this is as happy as I've seen her on a Monday since I met her. And the point is, I'm short bitcoin for whatever her salary was. Right. Because now that's my financial burden that I'm picking up. She. This is not a dual income household anymore. And guess what? I would do it a thousand times over. I don't care. You guys can keep those sats. I feel like what I wrote here is my girl didn't have to go to work today and I feel like the coolest guy in the world. And so like, you don't save money for the sake. People don't want money for the sake of money. People don't want the green pieces of paper or the bytes of data on the cold card. You want what those things can get you. Yeah. Do I, Do I kind of regret buying those boots to go to a movie premiere? By the way, the movie sucks. Yeah. But whatever. It was with my best friend and Saquon Barkley and his fashion designer. But like, the broader point is this idea of like, I like. No, man, you save the bitcoin and you work hard for what it can provide you. And for all the haters out there that are like, oh, you're co. You like, you're pretending that you're so. No, I'm not. I have no problem spending my bitcoin. I have no problem telling you guys that I've been buying bitcoin since it was below a hundred dollars. I'm not ashamed of it. I don't care what that makes you think about me. It's the truth. And guess what? I just went short as of today, even more potential sats, Because I told my girl she doesn't have to go to work. And guess how that makes me feel? Like a boss. Like a boss. Because my lady, my future wife and the future mother of my children, is going to live the best life. She deserves the world, and I'm going to give her the world. And I don't give a fuck about how much bitcoin that might cost me in the future. Same with my boots. So if you guys want to create a Twitter thread, like, oh, Jack's girl quit her job. He's short more bitcoin you. I don't care. I. I am so happy. Like, I can't tell you guys the emotion of loving somebody and seeing them just happy. Like, what that feels like. So that's what I got to say about my boots. It's a hilarious story. If you guys. For those of you that were joking about it, really funny. And for those of you that are calling me short bitcoin, I. For the things I care about in my life, I don't care. Okay, let me find this picture, because it's really funny. All right. Dylan said it was December 2021. Okay. Oh, yeah, Here it is. Yep. Oh, look at this. Oh, we look so dumb. Oh, my God. Sorry. Dylan, you're in this picture. You look good, though. Sharp, ladies. All right, let's see. Let me pull this photo up for you guys. Can I open this in my browser? Yeah, I can. All right, look at this. This is from the movie premiere. So this is Dylan on the left. That's me in the middle. And this is Saquon's agent, Shout out, Cuz the man, the myth, the legend. And it's true. We went to. It wasn't like, a secret party or anything. It was everyone that was invited to the premiere got to go to this event afterwards. And it was crazy. I was in the same room as Leonardo DiCaprio. I was like, holy funny story. Jonah Hill was trying to get past Dylan, and Dylan, like, was so starstruck, he couldn't move. So I remember Jonah Hill was standing behind Dylan, and I was like, yo, dude, turn around. Get out the way. And Dylan turns around and just, like, gets stuck and freezes. And Jonah Hill's like, yo, get the out of my way. But anyway, that's when I bought the boot. So if I zoom in on my feet here, there they are. Dior boots in all their glory. And this is my Tom Ford jacket. So all of you creeps that want to psychoanalyze me there's my Dior pants and my Tom Ford jacket. That's when I bought it. I don't know if I have all the. I don't have the pants anymore. I lost them. I think I have the jacket. I texted my fiance, see if she can find it. I haven't worn it since, so. Clearly a waste of SATs. No doubt. And. But I still have the boots. And yeah, in hindsight, maybe I shouldn't have worn them to the conference. I thought everyone would make fun of me for my flip flops, but maybe it's the other way around. Okay, Strike. Let me tell you guys, because, you know, I tell you this, man. Strike through hell and high water, through ups and downs. Strike kicks ass. Like, Strike ships non stop. Okay, so what did we ship last week? As I told you guys, we shipped a new limit system. So our limits. You know, you can deposit as much bitcoin as you have on the platform. You can wire us as much bitcoin. We think limits is critical to a good user experience. You can't. You can't be able to like, withdraw a thousand dollars with a bitcoin a month or something. I mean, that's untenable. That's ridiculous. So we work really hard on our limit system. So that's now available to all of you guys. And then on top of that, today we shipped and are now officially on Plaid. So you guys have said, I want to make sure Strike is a payment method for this, or I need to connect Strike to another financial app for that. And we're now on Plaid. So you can connect us to Transferwise, PayPal, Venmo, Robinhood. You can use Strike like you use other financial accounts on Plaid. Huge. Huge. Huge. Huge. So this team, like we at Strike, you can't say shit. You can say Jack wears ugly boots. You can say Jack has too many questions. You can't say shit about the Strike Team. And by the way, people come at the Strike Team, think about they catch so many strays. All of our competitors talk so much shit about us. They try and convince all these people say strikes rehypothecating bitcoin. Strikes are criminals. Strike. Strike this. Strike this. Strike this. Strike this. Strikes in this lawsuit. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And these bitcoiners don't give a fuck. They stay focused. They keep shipping. I love leading this company. I love leading this group. They do not around. We will not let anyone get in our way. We're gonna keep building tools for you guys. And we love it, and we love it. And we really appreciate the support and we love serving you guys as customers. So Strike continues to ship and keeps kicking ass. And I already talked about 21, so I'm not going to repeat myself. Okay, let's do a little bit of Q A. This episode's already almost two hours, so I'm going to keep it short. And I kind of already answered literally 15 questions over two hours in detail. But let's see if Dylan has anything for us. Oops. And I, I just don't want to leave any of you guys hanging. So let's see what Dylan's got. You guys like this? Strike hat pretty badass. All right. Oh, man. Okay, macro question. If Japan raises rates tomorrow and the USA lowers rates on Wednesday, will that trigger the reverse carry trade? It could. So I do think that USD JPY is one of the most sensitive markets right now to watch. I think even if there's an Iran resolution with the US and the straight reopens, markets are far from out of the woods. So it's a good flag, it's a good catch. And by the way, let me say this. I'm. I don't plan on doing this every episode. This is a once one episode thing. If, if I get the answers, I'm not going to sit here and, and ask the same questions over and over and over. Either there are no answers or I got the answers. And next episode, let's get back to talking about macro and other things. So we'll cover that next episode. Hey, Dylan, can you ask Jack about his thoughts on the Clarity act and if it will be passed before midterms? Yeah, I don't know. I think it's a toss up at this point and I think the prediction markets have it about 50, 50. You know, on one side you can make the argument Trump largely got elected or in large part because of criminal crypto and bitcoiners, and it's a huge part of his voting base. But the other side is the banking cartel finds it really threatening. And Jamie Dimon's been abundantly clear, like, over my dead body. So what's more powerful? Like, you know, all these votes or the banks? And I actually don't know the answer to that and I don't think that the prediction markets do either. So who knows? I would just reiterate the point that for us bitcoiners, it doesn't matter. This is not a bitcoin bill. It doesn't matter. Any near term price relief that this would give Bitcoin would be washed away as soon as Something happens in Iran or usdjpy. At the end of the day, bitcoin's scarcer than fiat, so they have to print the money. Bitcoin will go up and we need to lower our time preference and keep doing the proof of work. So I actually don't give a about the Clarity act and I don't think bitcoin over, over the long term, the low time preference, who cares? Sure, if it passes and we get a nice price bump, whatever, who cares? The next day, Trump reverses the Iran deal and we're right back down to 60. So it's all about lowering your time preference, earning more than you consume, staying humble, stacking sats. Who cares about shitcoin bills. Dylan qsjack if he believes a bitcoin treasury company can survive without an operating business. Why or why not? Listen, I think as far as I can tell, a bitcoin treasury company is reliant on issuing new shares to finance itself. So I mean, it was what Quinn. Here, let me just pull up Quinn's tweet. It's, it's what Quinn wrote. So. One second. Yeah, so this is the tweet. He says MSTR from an investor's perspective. And by the way, this is not. I, I feel bad. MSTR is just the biggest thing, right? And everyone's always talking about it, so it's always used in the examples. But I'm not only talking about mstr and I don't mean to bring it up again. MSTR from an investor perspective is extremely risky as a result of the senior claims and the blah, blah, blah. It's this end part. A company with negative cash flow has a 4% annual common equity dilution rate. So what Quinn is saying is that the amount of money that they owe each year, I think it's a little less than $2 billion is 4% of. So that's, it's implied that you have to issue new shares to raise the money to pay that. And so he calls it a 4% plus annual common equity dilution rate. And they're solely reliant on capital markets financing to support it. So also, like, if any of these companies got delisted and weren't in the capital markets, the model would also just like not work. So yeah, the only way to pay the obligations is to raise money somehow. And the ways you can raise money, as far as I'm concerned, there's two primary ways. There's selling common equity or there's selling bitcoin. And so obviously the best way, and I don't think anyone would disagree with this. The best way would be having profit. Like if everyone had Nvidia's profit and Michael Saylor's conviction in bitcoin. You combine those two and like that's the best equity in the world in my opinion. But obviously, you know, Nvidia doesn't have conviction in Bitcoin on the balance sheet quite yet. And no bitcoin treasury company or however you're classifying them has cash flows yet. So that's kind of the situation now. What's the question? Can they survive? I don't know man. Like of course, yeah, I don't know. I'm not gonna make predictions that anything's gonna fail or anything like that. But that's, that's basically. And that's why I kind of wanted to build a cash flow one that's different. Okay, question for Dylan. Given Jack's take on Fiat currency and that he doesn't believe in it, why would 21 want to solely acquire fiat? What? 21 does not solely acquire fiat. We own 43,514 bitcoin. That's the second largest corporate holdings in the world. So definitely not long Fiat. Okay, Strike. Questions? Hey Dylan, can you ask Jack when will strike be available in Switzerland? It's late in here so I won't be able to ask while he's live. So we had a partner that we were going to launch Switzerland with and they dropped Switzerland. So we are now actively looking for new solution. We'll get there. Low time preference. The strike team does not fuck around. It may not always be right now but we get it done. So we'll get there. Unfortunately it was a banking partner during bear markets and market crisis. Banking partners go in and out, man, it's tough. So we'll get there. Question. If my bitcoin appreciates and my LTV drops significantly, when will strike? Eventually offer cash out refinances so I can access more liquidity without selling my bitcoin. If you have a bitcoin backed loan, you can always do a partial collateral withdrawal on strike. So if your LTV drops you can always withdraw the excess collateral. That's since day one. So it's a really cool feature. On strike, let's say you take out a loan at 60k and bitcoin goes to 600k and now your loan is severely over collateralized. You can take all the bitcoin off the platform up until the collateral required to continue to finance the loan that you have outstanding. Any plans for support in Thailand? Not on the immediate roadmap. I mean, the dream is to get to everywhere, obviously. But I can say confidently that there's no like super active Thailand work going on at the moment. Nothing in the near immediate term. Hey, Dylan, any update on paper check deposits? I don't have a update on this one. Like a very specific one. Like I said, it's always we write all this stuff down, guys. We go through our next quarterly roadmap. Planning is actually June 17th. So in two days and I've thought about and I think I will do this new thing where I'm going to make quarterly videos. Well, at least I want to for Strike, where we go through our roadmap, what we built last quarter, what we're going to work on next, next quarter, go through some metrics and some just to keep everyone up to date because you guys have so many questions for me on the show and it feels like this isn't the best way to give everyone, all of our customers and everyone interested in Strike answers. So it's almost like an earnings call. But we're not a public company. But we can do a quarterly call that I record a video and just go through what we've built, why it's cool, pricing changes, what we, what our roadmap is for the next quarter, what, what's coming up, what's interesting and hopefully that gives a more holistic quarter by quarter updates on Strike, all the new markets like we're working on Strike Canada, our Mika license in Europe, interest on cash like liquidation proof loans, all the volatility proof loans, all this stuff. Okay, last question. Yo, over a. Oh, whoops. Yo, a year or two ago, I asked you a bitcoin question and you took an unprovoked shot at the Knicks. Can you share what you think your blind spot was about this team? The team might have been different a year or two ago. I don't know when you guys got Mikhail Bridges. I don't know when you guys got Cat. What was my blind spot about this team? I mean, I did not, I don't think anybody thought Jalen Brunson was as good as he is. And I'm what a likable guy and what a good thing for the league that a team that wasn't the overwhelming favorite that did none of this super team. It's so good for the league, it's good for New York. So I love it. I'm not mad at it at all. What did I overlook? Yeah, probably that Brunson. I didn't. I don't Think anyone thought Brunson was capable of scoring half his team's points in a closeout game in the Finals? Cat was not nearly as productive of a piece in Minnesota as he was in New York. I don't know if that's coaching. I don't know if that schemes. I think Ogn and Obi, again, that. I mean, that guy wasn't. He didn't he ride the bench during Toronto's run with Kawhi? So I don't think anybody thought he could have played the role. So I think. I mean, when you have a locker room in a culture like that, guys that like each other, like playing with each other, know their role. No, there's no egos. We talk about, you know, bitcoin being an ego killer, killing your own ego, becoming the person you're destined to become. I mean, that's a. That's a locker room with no egos. They love each other both on and off the court. It makes it easy to play with each other. Everyone plays their role. That. That sounds like a championship team. So I think, yeah, it's awesome for the league. And that's probably what I overlooked. Hey, hand up. Real man puts his hand up when he was wrong. I was definitely wrong about the Knicks. There's no doubt about that. All right, guys, I think that marks two hours, a long episode, hopefully. Helpful, though, you know, going and replying to each tweet versus making my own source of truth. If anyone is ever like, well, Jack, this, this, this, this, just send them to this video, clip this up timestamps, and who knows, Like I said, I could be wrong. I have no idea. I'm just asking questions. You know, Saylor leaving my companies out of his slides. It's not. That was crazy. It's not. It's no hard feelings, man. I don't know. At least from my side, I guess maybe other people feel differently, but I'm just asking questions and I won't. I'm not going to do this next week. Next week. Let's get back to talking about macro and other shit that is interesting. All right. Much love, comments, questions, feedback, bad and good. Leave it below. I read them, I engage with them, I care about them. By the common man, for the common man, man of the people, they say, I'll talk to you guys next week. Much love.