The Jefferson Fisher Podcast: Episode with Charles Duhigg Title: The 3 Types of Conversations You’re Always Having
Release Date: March 25, 2025
Host: Jefferson Fisher
Guest: Charles Duhigg, Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist and author of Super Communicators

Introduction

In this enlightening episode of The Jefferson Fisher Podcast, host Jefferson Fisher engages in a deep conversation with Charles Duhigg, a renowned journalist and author of Super Communicators. The discussion centers around the nature of conversations, the types we engage in daily, and how understanding these can transform our communication skills.

The Power of Asking Great Questions

Timestamp: [02:17] - [04:18]

Jefferson opens the dialogue by highlighting a key insight from Charles’s book: the most persuasive individuals often avoid arguing their points directly and instead excel at asking insightful questions. Jefferson remarks, “the most persuasive people don’t argue their point. They ask great questions” (01:51), emphasizing the importance of this approach in everyday interactions.

Charles elaborates on this by explaining that "consistent super communicators… tend to ask 10 to 20 times as many questions as the average person" (02:37). These questions range from simple, almost unnoticeable inquiries like “What’d you think about that?” to deeper ones that explore a person’s values, beliefs, or experiences. For example, instead of asking a doctor, “What hospital do you work at?”, a more profound question would be, “What made you decide to go to medical school?” This invites the interviewee to share meaningful aspects of their life, fostering a genuine connection.

Deep vs. Shallow Questions

Timestamp: [04:18] - [09:04]

Jefferson and Charles discuss the difference between surface-level and deep questions. Charles points out that while deep questions might seem intimidating, they are merely extensions of shallow ones. For instance, asking “What do you like about the Heights?” is a shallow question that can lead to a deeper conversation about personal values and experiences.

Charles introduces the concept of “deep questions” that encourage someone to open up about their emotions and personal stories. He cites Nick Epley’s research, which shows that people are more open to deep questions when they follow an easy-to-ask lead, making the transition seamless and natural (05:06). This technique transforms interactions from mere information exchanges to meaningful conversations.

Identifying the Conversation Type

Timestamp: [12:08] - [14:31]

Charles outlines three primary types of conversations that occur within any discussion:

1. Practical Conversations: Focused on making plans or solving problems.
2. Emotional Conversations: Centered around expressing feelings and seeking empathy.
3. Social Conversations: Related to relationships and social identities.

He emphasizes that these conversations often overlap, and recognizing which type is occurring is crucial for effective communication. Misalignment between conversation types can lead to misunderstandings, as Jefferson notes when someone might feel unheard if emotional needs are overlooked in a practical discussion (14:12).

Techniques for Effective Listening

Timestamp: [17:09] - [19:36]

Charles introduces the habit of “looping for understanding,” a technique to demonstrate active listening. This involves three steps:

1. Ask a Deep Question: Engage the speaker with a meaningful inquiry.
2. Paraphrase Their Response: Repeat back what you’ve heard in your own words to show comprehension.
3. Seek Confirmation: Ask if you’ve understood correctly to affirm your attentiveness.

Jefferson echoes the importance of these steps, sharing practical tips like asking “What was your favorite part?” instead of a generic “How was your day?” This approach ensures that the speaker feels valued and understood, fostering a stronger connection (18:34).

The Role of Emotional Connection in Communication

Timestamp: [22:05] - [25:20]

They delve into the significance of emotions in conversations, highlighting Maya Angelou’s quote: “Nobody will remember what you say, but they will remember how you made them feel.” Charles explains that emotional reciprocity, even in disagreements, can enhance connection. For example, acknowledging someone’s fear about crime can bridge differing political views by focusing on shared emotional experiences (15:47).

Jefferson adds that recognizing the emotional underpinnings of a conversation can prevent conflicts and foster empathy. Instead of offering unsolicited advice, sometimes all someone needs is acknowledgment and understanding (25:20).

Application in Daily Life and Professional Settings

Timestamp: [27:52] - [34:10]

Jefferson connects the discussion to his experience as an attorney, particularly during jury deliberations. He explains how understanding a juror’s mindset through targeted questions can influence their perceptions and decisions. Charles relates this to “quiet negotiations” in everyday conversations, where the goal is to comprehend what the other person wants rather than to win the conversation (30:33).

They discuss how mirroring energy and neural entrainment—where brain activities synchronize during effective communication—enhances mutual understanding and connection. This alignment is pivotal in both personal and professional interactions (34:10).

Personal Reflections and Takeaways

Timestamp: [35:41] - [41:14]

Charles shares how writing Super Communicators has transformed his own communication style. He emphasizes the importance of recognizing the type of conversation and adjusting accordingly to meet the other person’s needs. Jefferson reflects on his journey, noting that being more conscious of how he communicates has enriched his relationships and listening skills.

Key takeaways include:

1. Ask More Questions: Focus on both shallow and deep questions to engage meaningfully.
2. Identify Conversation Types: Recognize whether a conversation is practical, emotional, or social to respond appropriately.
3. Focus on Listening: Ensure that conversations are about being heard rather than just exchanging words.

Conclusion

The episode concludes with Jefferson and Charles summarizing their insights on becoming super communicators. They reiterate the importance of asking thoughtful questions, recognizing the type of conversation, and genuinely listening to others. Jefferson underscores that effective communication not only enhances personal relationships but also contributes to long-term happiness and success, as supported by the Harvard Study of Adult Development.

Charles adds that by adopting these communication habits, individuals can foster deeper connections and create more meaningful interactions in both their personal and professional lives.

Notable Quotes:

• Charles Duhigg: “What makes the most persuasive people is that they recognize asking these deep questions is just as easy as asking shallow questions.” (04:18)

• Jefferson Fisher: “Ask more questions. Find a way to just create a habit like we talked about, of just asking one, maybe two questions.” (40:54)

• Charles Duhigg: “Our neural entrainment… is actually the goal of communication. The goal of communication is for our thoughts to become aligned.” (34:54)

• Jefferson Fisher: “If you can ask a question instead of the response… asking just one question and then almost repeating back what they said to make you feel that connection is just a brilliant strategy and it works every time.” (41:14)

Further Resources:

• Book: The Next Conversation by Jefferson Fisher
• Book: Super Communicators by Charles Duhigg
• School of Communication: Jefferson Fisher School of Communication
• Podcast Availability: YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Spotify

This episode serves as a valuable guide for anyone looking to enhance their communication skills, offering practical strategies backed by research and personal experiences. By understanding and applying the principles discussed, listeners can transform their everyday conversations into powerful tools for connection and persuasion.