← The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
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- [00:00]
Jefferson Fisher
Study and play come together on a Windows 11 PC and for a limited time, college students get the best of both worlds. Get the unreal college deal everything you need to study and play with select Windows 11 PCs. Eligible students get a year of Microsoft 365 Premium and a year of Xbox Game Pass ultimate with a custom color Xbox wireless controller. Learn more@windows.com studentoffer while supplies last ends June 30th terms at aka mscollegepc I need you to stop apologizing for things that you didn't cause. Stop apologizing for things that aren't your fault. Welcome to the Jefferson Fisher Podcast. If you are watching you can see that I'm kicking an old school in the truck. I'm taking some calls Today we talked about how do you respond to somebody who says why'd you do it like that? Beginning with why? Why'd you do it this way? Why'd you do it like that? What do you do when a daughter in law or somebody in your family son in law is trying to triangulate your child? How do you respond to that? How do you respond to a boss that's meant to and micromanaging? And what do you do when somebody is trying to talk politics with you and you don't really agree with them? How do you handle it by still showing respect for the other person? All that more coming up.
- [01:11]
Caller
I'm calling because of a daughter in law that I have that is new to our family that has had my son become estranged from me and that has blamed me for things that I haven't done. I've seen therapists for it and she's very manipulative and she gaslights me and I always just apologize for for everything. But it's become extremely toxic. My husband and I are scratching our heads on what to do. We would love them to be a part of our family again. Therapist recommended that we would have a therapist with us when we talk with them again and try and show them how much we love them and would love to welcome them back into our lives. However, how do I protect myself and defend myself when she accuses me of things that I don't do? I don't know how to be stronger. I am very easy to manipulate I guess and I just really love them and I miss my son. It's been almost a year since I've seen him and talked to him and we had such a loving relationship all his growing up and now my daughter in law accuses me of things that I didn't do And I would love some help in knowing how to be better at defending myself and show love all at the same time and be able to listen more and understand more of how to be a better mother in law, but also defending who I am and not let her walk all over me.
- [02:46]
Jefferson Fisher
Ma', am, that really makes my heart hurt for you that that's what you're living with. I want you to know, first off, you're not alone. I've heard many dads and moms who have been separated, estranged from their child once their kid got married and the son in law or daughter in law has pulled them away, has siphoned them off. What I want you to understand is that this isn't your fault. This isn't your fault. By just your tone, I can tell, and I know I could certainly be wrong, that you're somebody who tends to possibly people, please or maybe placate the situation. Because what you told me was you always say sorry every single time and you're accepting things that aren't your fault. And you don't have to do that. You know you don't have to do that and yet you continue to do so. So I want to take a moment to say this isn't your fault. Your son chose to marry who he's going to marry and you can still love him. And sometimes we have to love from a distance. Sounds like it's not healthy that the daughter in law is set on doing things that are corrosive and hurtful to your family and certainly to you and blaming you for things. If I were to put this in a nutshell, to give this some. Some rules. Number one, I need you to stop apologizing for things that you didn't cause. Stop apologizing for things that aren't your fault. So it's okay for you to say, I hear you. Thank you for telling me that. I understand your point. Anything that is saying, I. I receive the message that I'm not going to be apologizing. I'm not going to be apologizing for it because you, you did nothing wrong. We're going to save your apologies for things you've actually, you've actually done that were intentional. All right? So I don't you to people please or lay that over in some way. Number two, like I said a minute ago, you have to love from a distance. Sometimes there's nothing I'm going to be able to tell you that's going to automatically just fix the situation. What I can give you is something to help move the Needle a little bit to make you feel better and feel more in control of this situation. We already talked about no more apologizing and people pleasing to placate the things that you did not cause. Number two, loving from a distance. When you're able to communicate and say, I'm here, I know things are not how we want them to be. I'm not asking to push anything. I'm ready to listen whenever you are. And this is directing to your son. Okay. Because it sounds like she's trying to triangulate the whole entire situation. And I'm curious right now, you know, what your, what your son would be saying if he's just in a position to where he can only agree with what the daughter in law says, with what his wife says. And I understand that's his priority, right? To place the priority of his own family and his wife over everybody else. I respect that. It's also hurting your relationship. So that distance does not mean you don't love him anymore. And I do think it's smart that you're wanting to bring this into a conversation that's going to have therapeutic involvement. Do you have a whole family counselor involved to be able to get all of this unsaid stuff out? And I hear you and your husband saying, yeah, we're scratching our heads going, man, how do we, how do we fix this? The more practical side of things, aside from these mindsets, is number three, I would tell you that when you communicate with your son, do your best not to press that you're here, that you miss him. Maybe you miss moments, but not in a way that's pushing or pressing. Again, I'm really curious what he would be saying about all of this. Maybe would he agree that his wife has been gaslighting you and hurting you? Certainly I wouldn't expect him to be okay with her hurting you. And maybe he's in an impossible situation between you and his wife and that's not a fun place to be. So if you are, if you're wanting to reconnect with him or her, I would keep an open mindset. I would not push and not press. And when you communicate, whether it's by a text or a call, keep it brief. And not like you're wanting to fix everything, but just how you said I'm wanting to keep. We miss you. I'm here. Whenever you're ready, I'm ready to listen. I want you to be part of this family, to allow those opportunities. So if I could sum that all in one thing. Don't Stop. Just don't stop. I know it's going to feel like it's hopeless and you want to give up. Don't stop. I guarantee you there's somebody who's listening to this right now and goes, I know exactly what she's feeling. Like I've been through this moment. And you know what? I didn't stop. And because of that, my family is what I want it to be. Or maybe it hasn't. And maybe there are other people out there who just need to hear. Don't. Don't stop. Keep the door open and don't close it. Great question.
- [08:37]
Caller
How do I communicate my needs with an avoidant partner? The backstory is that my partner and I had a very heavy conversation, like, disagreement about two weeks ago. It happened on a Saturday, and I asked for us to talk about it that Monday. He agreed. And then there was something that came up with his daughter, so he had to cancel. He said, we'll reschedule for Thursday. Thursday again, something came up. This time the nanny was sick, so he had to pick his daughter up from school and couldn't make it. So I said, okay, how about next Monday or Tuesday? He said he'll check in and then never got back to me until Tuesday night when he said that basically, it's been a week. His daughter also got sick, so he'll call me when she falls asleep. And of course, he never called. I feel like he's been evading the conversation more than anything. And he is the avoidant side, like, throughout our relationship, I've noticed that. So. But, like, during this period, it's just in regular, good morning, good night. Nothing really addressing our disagreement, no plan to reschedule our time to chat. So I just want to know how to handle this, like, with a partner who's very good at avoiding tough conversations. How do I deal with that type of partner, and how do I get him to have this tough conversation and communicate my needs to break this cycle of avoidance? Thank you,
- [10:10]
Jefferson Fisher
man. The avoidant partner. I know what that's like. In every relationship, there is the anxious communicator and the avoidant communicator. I have some insight on this because I tend to be the avoidant communicator. It's just our natural wiring. So I want to first say you pointing that out that this is his wiring rather than something wrong with him, rather than saying it's about his character and he never wants to talk and he's this and he's that. You went to this is his natural wiring of Being more avoidant. So kudos to you. I wish more people had that type of, like, emotional, intelligent approach to the conversation. So I do want to point that out. Number two, how do we get people like this to communicate the fact that he's avoiding the conversation? And you've. You've done all the right things. You said, let's make some time for this. I want to talk about this. And it's been, what, a few weeks now? And he's actively avoiding it. Big problem. Big problem. So how do you make somebody who's an avoidant come back into the fold? You're giving all the space. So it's not like you're trying to push this conversation and say, we need to make a decision right now. And he's flooded and he's overwhelmed and you are not leaving room for the conversation. And so he needs to try, and you're not providing enough distance here. It's not that. All right. It's not that. I need you to take a different approach, a different tactic, so to speak. And this needs to most likely be in a text message and potentially in a conversation that you can point back to or a voice note. The reason why I like a text message better is because it is in writing. It is in writing. It is not something that he can later kind of manipulate or tell himself that you said something differently. It needs to be in writing. Okay? And what I'm going to tell you to do is you need to put a boundary. This is a boundary for you that you are going to stop doing this to continue to push things out. All right? So I'm going to give you some ideas on what that boundary could sound like. I'm not interested in a relationship that does not prioritize important conversations. Something like that. That's the first thing you're drawing a line in. I am not willing to be in a relationship that does not prioritize important things or prioritize conversations that need to be had. I'm not willing to be part of a relationship that avoids difficult conversations, that avoids when things get hard. You hear how, like, declarative that statement is. This is not. You've done. You've pushed me for the last time, and you've rescheduled this conversation and you've kicked this can down the road too long. You. That's not what you're doing. Right. You're taking back the control and the power by saying, I'm not interested in a relationship that avoids difficult conversations. Cool.
- [13:18]
Caller
Whoa.
- [13:18]
Jefferson Fisher
I love that. The next is, we're Going to go into the condition. If you continue to push this conversation, if this conversation gets pushed again, if you continue to avoid a reschedule 3 this is your consequence. This is what you do. You get to choose this. Okay SG you get to. From New York, you get to decide this. You get to say if you continue to push this down the road, if you continue to avoid the conversation or if this conversation continues to be avoided, I like that better because it's more objective instead of if you, if this conversation continues to be rescheduled or if this conversation continues to get kicked down the road, then I need to reevaluate whether I want to be in this relationship or this is a relationship that I need to move on from, then this is something that I'm going to choose to do something different for me. Or it could be as simple as that. If that feels less direct to you, then I need to choose something different for myself. I need to choose a different path. Then I need to do some real self work on whether this relationship matters to me enough for me to put up with this. I mean you need to be able to couch that boundary to say I'm not interested and somebody or a relationship, I like a relationship. You could also use somebody I'm not interested in, a partner that avoids hard conversations. If this conversation continues to be pushed out down the road, then I need to. Then I'm going to reevaluate my role and my involvement and my participation in this relationship. Put that out there. And I'd be willing to bet if this avoidant person wants to truly be part of this relationship, then they're going to make the time. What I don't want you to do is continue to get sucked down the wormhole of them being like oh no, no, no, I mean at going to do it, you need a hold of that boundary. You say I made this very clear. If this gets broken, if we avoid this conversation, this is what I'm putting in place. Otherwise you are now an accomplice of pushing it down the road. You're now enabling this avoidant behavior for them to be able to do this. Because avoidant communicator, avoidant person means that that attachment style is somebody who's more self sufficient that when they get flooded and overwhelmed, they retreat inside to self regulate. That's not what he's doing. Okay? This isn't him being an avoidant communicator in my view. This is him just actively avoiding the conversation. And somebody can be an anxious communicator or an Avoided communicator and still avoid disregard. Not prioritize this conversation. So do not let that happen. I need you to put a boundary and stick to it.
- [16:21]
Caller
Cool.
- [16:21]
Jefferson Fisher
Great question. This podcast is sponsored by Cozy Earth. There is one thing that I love, especially when I'm traveling here this summer. We've been traveling a lot in the airport. Is wearing my Cozy Earth. They are the most comfortable premium fabric I've ever worn. I usually have their. They have like this performance polo hoodie. I'll maybe have on some of their jogger pants. I know my family loves it. Especially the sweatshirt. The sweats are what's up. Especially if I don't know about you. If you're traveling and you just like to be really comfortable, cozy. Cozy Earth is what's up. They're the best sleepwear, activewear when it comes to anything comfortable that I've ever had. So that's why I'm such a huge fan of Cozy Earth and they've been a friend and sponsor of this podcast for a long time now. So trust me when I say Cozy Earth. It's good stuff. You can go to cozyearth.com jefferson use the code jefferson for up to 20% off. That's cozyearth.com Jefferson use the code jefferson for 20% off. And now let's get to the episode.
- [17:26]
Caller
Hey, Jefferson. My name is Erin. Setting is at work. Usually when this happens, it's typically with male and or masculine women saying to me, why did you do that? Or why did you do that? That way it's almost always in a public setting on a chat with other people, never in a one on one. And my husband says this to me, easier to handle at home than at work. So I need a professional response to why did you do that? Or why did you do that? That way. Thanks so much for all you're doing. I put your work into play at work and it works like a charm.
- [18:11]
Jefferson Fisher
Aaron, that is really maddening to me that you feel because you're being questioned all the time, that you don't have responses that you're able to give. And it's specifically with men or as you said, more masculine women and you feel like you're in this position that is hopeless and you don't feel like you're being treated right. And I think there is absolutely, hands down, a very transparent inequity when it comes to what women can say and what men can say because they're going to be interpreted far different. So what my gut tells me what I'm my First thought is, yeah, if somebody says, why'd you do it that way? I want to respond because that's what I want it to. Because that's what I went with. That's the decision I made. But I know that that's a very male driven response of like, I can say that. And I also acknowledge that if you were to say that, you might be getting a very different result. You're going to be saying people will be saying things or calling you things, or interpreting you as something else that you don't want to be. I'm going to give you some other options that I think are going to work. But I want to first recognize and call out the fact that, yeah, there's absolutely a discrepancy, a big discrepancy, especially in the workplace, on who owns assertive communication, who owns confidence. There are things that men can say or more masculine women can say and nobody. They accept it. They take it as, this is an advantage. We want people who tell it like it is, who don't apologize, who are rough around the edges, who are aggressive, who shake things up and push people around, and it's seen somehow as an advantage. But yet, if you were to say something like that, well, then you're going to be seen as a problem. You're going to be seen as somebody who thinks that they're above everybody or is rude, dismissive, as a negative, right? As somebody who is seen as trying to raise above something they should not, trying to push above some kind of ceiling. It is not fair and it is very real. All right? So I want to fully acknowledge that, period. If I were to give you some other language that I think you can use in this, whether it's at home or at work, you asked for a professional response to this and it would be, when somebody says, why'd you do it like this? I want you to be able to respond with, this is the decision I made under the information I had. Basic to the point, under the information I had, this was the best choice. This was the best answer. If I flipped that sentence, I'd say, this is the best choice under the information I had. And he goes, why did you do it like that? This was the route I took under the information that I had. When you add the information I had, you're saying in this moment, based on the context, based on everything else that was provided to me, this was the best route. Rather than trying to feel like you're having to defend everything and ultimately, if they continue to push on it, what do you do? This is where you turn it into a question. Like, if you have feedback, I'm open to, I'm open to hearing it. Sounds like you have other thoughts. Sounds like you have feedback. Is there another option you would have preferred? Like, don't take it. Don't allow somebody to make a passive aggressive statement. So if somebody's pushing against that, call it out and say, it sounds like you have different thoughts. It sounds like you're disagreeing. Should I take your feedback as that you disapprove? Yep. Whenever that happens, you're pushing back and not going, you're right, I should have done it your way. Oh, yeah, I didn't think about that. I'm so sorry. None of that. Whenever they give you their thoughts, because really, when they say, why'd you do like that? It could be more accusatory that they think you should have done something else. And by checking that, by saying, this is the path I took under the information that I had under the conditions that were there. Right. This is, this is the path I took. So how do I, I need to, I want to make sure, I want to make sure that I synthesize this in a very easy to use framework. So if you're getting the question, why'd you do it like that in a professional setting, I want you to one, go to, this is the decision, this is the path, this is the choice, not the, oh, what, you don't. Do you not like it? I'm so sorry. Instead of apologizing and trying to justify, I want you to stand firm and in the choice and decision that you made. So it's, this is the decision I made. The second part is under the information that I had, right. Under these conditions, under this environment, under this information. So what you're saying is I made this choice under the information that I had at the time in the environment. So in other words, it can be replicated. That environment of what it was isn't now. So don't. It's not going to help to do hindsight, hindsight being 2020 and now let somebody Monday morning quarterback you in some way. So you need to be able to keep that solid and you're standing by three. If somebody continues to push, you go, this is the choice I made on the information that I had. And they go, yeah, I mean, but why. I want you to be able to push against that and say, if you have feedback, I'm all ears. If you have other thoughts, I'm listening, I'm open to hearing. If you have other thoughts, it sounds like you have other thoughts on this. Would you like to share? Don't let them continue to try and poke and push and pierce into you. You get to say, hey, I hear that you're trying to voice something in a way that I don't appreciate. So why don't you go ahead and share and get out what you're already thinking? Right. So we're going to stand firm. This is the decision. Two, under the conditions and information that I had, and three, if it gets pushed, I want you to be able to clearly and confidently ask. It sounds like you have other thoughts or if you have other thoughts or have other questions. If you have any feedback, I'm open to hearing it. If you feel like something else should have happened, I'm open to you expressing that. So you're allowing that avenue for them to talk, not continue to try and accuse you. Cool. All right, Aaron, you got it.
- [24:56]
Caller
Hey, Jefferson. My name is Nathan and I have a question about work. I have a very unforgiving and harsh boss and the situation is already being really tough on the team. It's tough on my mental health. So my question to you is, how do you handle a situation where a boss is very micromanaging? It's very demanding, the expectations are constantly changing. You never know when you're going to get scolded in those kind of situations. How do you create boundaries in those situations so you survive until you find another job? To give an example, we are required as a team to give this guy updates three times a day. And a lot of times that's not enough. He wants an update like every single
- [25:38]
Jefferson Fisher
hour of every day of where we
- [25:39]
Caller
are on our project. So the other day I had two of the meetings I had gone to and he pulled me aside in the stairwell and he basically gave me four things I was doing wrong, three brand new tasks, like an hour away from the end of the day that he wanted me to get done. There was no way I was going to get done. And it's just not good for my mental health and all that. So my question is, how do you handle that situation? Thank you so much.
- [26:04]
Jefferson Fisher
Great question. And also, I'm sorry for that. When you have a boss that is really micromanaging, overbearing, it is not only a very hopeless feeling, it's very frustrating feeling. And I don't blame you at all for feeling that way. And anybody who has, who's listening and has had a bad boss, a micromanaging boss, give him some love, say, yeah, I know what that's like. I Know what that's like? Okay, how do we handle this kind of conversation? When you're dealing with somebody who's micromanaging, what you're really doing is micro. They're putting you responsible for managing their insecurity. In a nutshell, that's what that is. They don't find enough that they can trust what's happening. It's a very scarcity mindset where nothing's ever good enough. You're not talking to them enough, you're not updating them enough that they can't trust the procedures and systems of what's happening, the structure of what's underneath them. To trust that support system, to know that what's supposed to happen is going to happen, what does that do? It doesn't give you autonomy, it doesn't give you trust, and it signals and tells you that nothing you do is ever going to be enough and they can never trust you. And again, back to exactly what you're talking about. A very hopeless, frustrating feeling for what should have been. For what should have been an awesome, amazing promotion for you. When you're dealing with somebody who's micromanaging, what are some things you can do? Number one, exactly what you talked about. I want you to focus on what's your mental health like? The fact that you even voiced the hey, this isn't great for me speaks a lot in terms of emotional intelligence, of you just noticing, hey, this is not. This is not good for my page of life. This is not good. This is not the chapter that I want to be in. And noticing that, number two, there's going to have to be some really hard conversations. Can't get around that. Going to have to have some big conversations. And this is what's coming to mind for me. Again, it's all going to depend on context. So if you're listening and you go, that would never work for my boss. Well, maybe so, maybe so. This. Not all bosses are certainly the same, no different than anybody else. My name is Nathan and I. When you're approaching somebody and you need to have that hard conversation I want you to begin with, are you against situation is already. Are you against proposing a solution that is going to.
- [28:29]
Caller
My question to you is how do
- [28:31]
Jefferson Fisher
you make us work better or more handle a situation? Are you opposed to very micromanaging me,
- [28:37]
Caller
demanding expectations, searching for us to find
- [28:40]
Jefferson Fisher
a solution to where we're not having to sit?
- [28:43]
Caller
How do you create boundaries?
- [28:44]
Jefferson Fisher
I need you to throw this out. You're trying to look for a solution three times a day and Short term,
- [28:53]
Caller
a lot of times that's not enough. He wants an update.
- [28:55]
Jefferson Fisher
I'm looking for some kind of answer. Solution result though the other day is going to lead to the meetings I had updated and he pulled me aside in the stairwell so.
- [29:04]
Caller
And he basically gave me four things
- [29:05]
Jefferson Fisher
I was doing wrong language. As an hour away from the end of the day, let's focus on the get done. There's no way if you're working there, it's just you have a goal and they have all that. So for the best business, how do you handle that? Whatever the environment is, however that system is supposed to run and you lead with that goal in mind to say, you know, I know that you care about the productivity of this and I know you care about making sure that you have the most up to date news or status. Are you against coming up with a solution for me to where we don't have to update as often? Let's start there. And I want you to just take your temperature of how that feels. You see what I'm trying to wade you into. So we're going to need to identify the goal for them. Going to prop this up as a collaboration solution. And three, I want you to be able to voice what the current system is doing to you.
- [30:05]
Caller
Right.
- [30:06]
Jefferson Fisher
So if I were to. What you're hearing, my brain is rearranging the steps and advice I want to give you in real time. So one would be the goal. Two is let's move into the current problem and three, the solution. So let's say if I'm, if you're my boss and I'm approaching you, I might say something along the lines of I know that getting the most up to date news and securing the profitability of this company is the goal for everybody right now. We are working against that goal when it slows us down by having to do X, Y and Z, having to update you every hour, or the ways in which we are getting new work. Are you against coming up with a new solution that is going to reach that goal in a way that is allowing us the autonomy and trust to like prove that to you that is also gonna reach that, that same point, reach that same goal. You hear what I'm saying? So I want you to think, if I were to break it down, let's talk. One, we're gonna say identify the goal. That's a shared goal. Two, I need you to identify very briefly in like one sentence, two sentences, what the current solution is doing against that goal, how it's working against that goal. This is not where you add in all your context and say, remember the other day in the stairwell when you did X, Y and Z and I did all this. It's not going to get there. Don't, don't talk about the past. You need to talk about the current problem. And three, asking if they're against coming up with a solution that's going to align better with where your goals. That's how you survive in that area. Listen, there's no guarantee that this guy, if he's as bad of a boss as you say, is going to go along with any of this. He might just spit it back out and go, absolutely not. Get back to work and I want to hear an update within the hour or whatever. If that's the case, you've tried and that way, you know, I have done what all I know to do to be under this environment while you look for another opportunity, another job placement. Because this is not somebody I want you working under whatsoever. So the fact that you already know this to me says that your mind is in great place. So we're going to see or at least your mind is on the right path. So we're going to go one, talk about the goal, shared goal. Two, I want you to go into what the current issue is and three, ask if they're willing to engage in a solution that's going to decrease those amount of check ins or decrease whatever the problem is that is also going to lead to the same result with me. Got me?
- [32:36]
Caller
Good. Hey, I've got a question. I'm getting older, so I'm the oldest one in the office and I feel like all the other employees are kind of like shutting me out. So I feel like I work by myself and I've been listening to you and Jay Shetty and Mel Robbins and you've really helped me out a lot. But how do you deal with that? Like one person in particular does not talk to me. I work in a very small office and it's awkward. Thank you.
- [33:12]
Jefferson Fisher
That is something that I know a lot of people struggle with in the office. I hear you saying it's a smaller office so it makes it more obvious if you don't feel like you're being included. I'm going to challenge some things that you said. All right, so it's going to be a little bit uncomfortable, but it's a good thing you said. I feel like they're shutting me out. Well, there's a difference between feeling like they're shutting you out and if they've actively done Things to not include you. All right. It is easy, very like so very easy to take things personally in the office. So I'm gonna, I'm going to propose two separate routes for you. One is for you to at least consider the fact that none of this is an intent, none of this is intentional. I want you to at least consider that none of this is intentional, that this could be a generational difference. This could be the fact that those in the same generation are going to more easily bond with those of the same generation. And that's normal. And that's okay, right? To, to allow that to happen. And some of it is just going to be the fact that it's absent mindedness, it's not intentional. They didn't understand it. And maybe if we were to sit in their shoes, what do you think they, they could be saying, what else could it be? So I play this game with my son. Whenever he feels left out about something or is just knows he thinks that something is very personal happening to him, he's taking it personally and something could be with his sister or something. And the game is I play with him as what else could it be? What else could it be? And so I want, I'm going to ask you to answer that question. If it is not that they're intentionally doing this, what else could it be? Could it be that it's just absent minded? Could it be that maybe you gave off, give off the, the perception that you don't want to be invited or there's something that you did even inadvertently, that has somehow signaled that you, you don't want to be invited and you want to be separate and shut off from everybody. Is that possible? Is that possible? So I want you to consider the fact that it might be that they feel in some way you don't want to be invited. That's one path. The second path is let's say they are purposely not including you and there's some kind of rift that needs to be named. I'm not saying that you need to go up to them and meekly say, hey guys, can I please be included in whatever you're doing? No, that's not what I'm saying. What I am telling you is that as the person who is more senior, more experienced, then you need to lead with having an open conversation. So how can we frame this not just maybe as a group, but maybe even this one particular individual that you have mentioned, you've called them out. Because when it comes to the group, that's going to have to do with Are you. Are you going to things when people invite stuff, or do you tag along? Do you want to go? Are you making time? Are you trying to ask, hey, what can I help you with? What can you do? What's going on? Are you involved in being social with them? First off, are you closing yourself off and just expecting them to come to you? Hard question, but an honest one. So let's say you need to talk to this person that you feel has cut you off. This one individual. I want you to one, ask the question. Like, we're going to set it up. We're going to tee up this conversation. Hey, can I talk to you about something that's been bothering me? Hey, can I talk to you about something that's. That's important to me? That I just. I've been thinking about it for a while, and I want to address it with you. Cool. You're teeing it up. The second is saying, I feel like there's distance between us. I feel like there is kind of this unspokenness that we don't really communicate, and I don't want it to be there. I like to have a good working relationship with you, and if that's something you like, too, I'm all ears. I like to work out that, too. It's okay for you to say things like, hey, if I'm reading this the wrong way, tell me, or if I've done something wrong or if I've messed something up, I want you to tell me so that I can fix it, because how we are right now is not how I want to continue. And then see what's going to go. See where it's going to lead. Maybe she goes, oh, my gosh. Yeah, that's not what I mean at all. What I've been dealing with. Or, I thought you didn't like me. And I'm guaranteeing that the conversation is going to lead to a place that is more positive than it is negative. Why? Because you chose to be bold and go out in the open and have the conversation. Before we keep going, I want to take a moment to tell you about poncho outdoors as the weather heats up. It's getting hot down here, y'.
- [38:08]
Caller
All.
- [38:08]
Jefferson Fisher
I can tell you. It makes it all the more crucial to make sure that your shirt game is right. I've been wearing poncho now for a pretty long time. In fact, I know, especially in my small town, lots of guys wear poncho, and for a good reason. They are comfortable. They stretch. A lot of them have 50 plus FPS protection. They're breathable. You can wear them to work in, go fishing in whatever you're doing outside. They're rugged, they're durable, but also they. They feel good. And what I like is there's always some kind of, like, hidden feature, like some. Something where you can hold your sunglasses or, you know, put a fishing lure on or something like that. So I was fishing just the other day. What do you think? I wore? Poncho. So if you know somebody in your life that could use a new lineup of shirts and they spend a lot of time outdoors, look no further than Poncho outdoors. Go to ponchooutdoors.com Jefferson and enter your email for $10 off your first order.
- [39:02]
Caller
That's cool.
- [39:03]
Jefferson Fisher
That's P O-N C H O poncho outdoors.com Jefferson for $10 off and free shipping. So go try one out today. And now let's keep going.
- [39:14]
Caller
Hi, Jefferson. My name is Lexi. I'm from Florida. I have a few questions kind of pertaining to how do I speak to my parents. I'm still a high school student revolving around, like, political matters. When discussions are happening at, you know, just family dinner or whatever, there's been a few stuff. Me and my stepdad have, like, differing views on certain things, but a lot of times politics are brought up or, like, I'm asked a question, and like I said, our views don't align. So oftentimes I disagree with him. And it's not out of me being disrespectful. It's just my opinion was asked and I'm responding, like, with my opinion. So I was wondering, how do I respond to a controversial topic that is going against an elder without. How do I respond without being disrespectful, but also not conforming to something that I don't believe in and sharing my views on things? So I don't know if that makes sense. I wanted to try and keep it quick, but thank you so much for listening to me, and I hope you have a great day. Thank you.
- [40:33]
Jefferson Fisher
Oh, okay. That was an awesome question. Can I just. Can I give you some praise right now? Some kudos? How cool is it that somebody who's a high school student is saying, hey, I know that I'm talking about big, complex issues such as politics, which is probably one of the hardest topics outside of religion. And this person in my life is saying things that I definitely disagree with. How do I communicate in a way that is still respectful to this person who's an elder, who is older than me? Who is in a different generation. How do I do that openly and in a civil manner. Holy smokes. Awesome. I just, I need to give you that right there. Awesome question. That, that, that is going to prepare you so well for so many things in life and the way you're going to approach communication, because you're asking the right question, I can give you some answers and I'm going to give you answers, but I want to first recognize that what you're doing, even better than anything I could give you is you're asking first the right question. And that, that can't be taught. Man. I mean, that's so cool. Like you have this, you have a disagreement with your stepdad. Of all humans in your life, this is your stepdad. And you're saying, hey, instead of me marking him off and go, he sucks. I hate him. He doesn't see anything. He's so stupid. You are showing so much maturity. I wish so many grown ups, like adults could have this outlook as you do as a high school student that's saying, hey, I want to approach this the right way. How do I disagree with somebody that I fundamentally disagree with when it comes to politics? I wish that more people applied this mindset and approach to a hard conversation. Because this is a hard conversation. Talking to somebody about politics and you know that you disagree and you are coming at it from a different mindset instead of them. I need to make them agree with me. You are saying, how can I approach this conversation that still shows respect? That's, that is that, that is such a different perspective and approach by itself. That is in the top 1% of people who approach hard conversations. So amazing job. I cannot go through this question without giving you that right there. How do you deal with somebody who's always talking about politics and somebody that, you know, you disagree with, but yet it's out there and you have to kind of navigate it, Especially if the person is older than you and you're trying to deal with all of that. How do we do this? Number one, I want you to see things in perspectives rather than points. So rather than saying I disagree, I think that's so dumb. What do you, what do you mean? Yeah, but that's, but that doesn't make sense with X, Y and Z. That's not going to work. All right, I want you to talk in perspective. Someone saying, I disagree. I want you to say, I see things differently. You know, I see things differently. And most likely the other person's going to go, oh, well then what do you see? Or it's possible that they go, oh, well, you know, you don't, you don't know what's what. And they think just because they're older that they know a whole lot more than you do. So what I'm saying is, one route you could take is if this person's actually engaged or interested in dialogue, is to say, I see things differently rather than I disagree. And that opens up the curiosity box for them to be able to talk more. But let's say, number two, let's say they, they have no interest in really listening to you. They just want to talk about what they want to talk about because, of course, how they feel is only the right way to feel. So how do you deal with that? Is to stop it. How do you stop it? Is we're going to use phrases that I call wet blankets in conversation. These are phrases that tend to be the end of it without disagreeing, without being disrespectful. Phrases like, yeah, maybe so. That's probably one of my favorite. Yeah, maybe so. Or you affirm what they're saying. Well, it sounds, that sounds like a really important part to you. That sounds like you've been thinking about a lot, you know, or. Yeah, that sounds like you really care a lot about whatever it is, politics or justice or the government or whatever hot button topic there is, and you're going to get them to talk a little bit more, but you're not arguing about it in any way. That's what you're wanting to stop. You want to stop the argument so we can affirm that this sounds really important to them or either you want to give another wet blanket word, it could be as simple as. Well, that's good for me. No, thank you for telling me that. Something simple as that. My favorite still. And maybe so. Yeah, it's, it's. We like to say that's crazy. That's crazy. Yeah. Interesting. These things are just. You just kind of aren't you. You put a big wet blanket on the conversation to where it really doesn't go anywhere in it. It signals that they're not going to get any more from you. And number three, what you said was perfect. You said, look, I have different opinions because I don't agree with this person at all, but I want to be respectful because this person's an elder or I respect them and I want to make sure that I, I show that, that I'm acting alignment. I'm acting in alignment with that respect. Here's what I'd ask you to do. Ask I want you to ask permission before you share it rather than going, yeah, but what you're missing is you're missing the whole point here. And what you're not doing is, but, yeah, but that's not going to work. I want you to ask a question that says, are you open to hearing another take? Are you open to hearing another perspective? Are you against me sharing what I think you hear, how you are. You're propping it up to get them to go, yeah, go, go ahead, I'll. I'll. Yeah.
- [46:34]
Caller
What. What are you.
- [46:35]
Jefferson Fisher
What are you saying? No, I'm not against that. So usually when I use phrases like are you against? That is allowing them to say no to it, which is getting the answer that he wants. For example, I could say, are you against hearing another view? And I go, no, you go ahead. Or maybe it's, are you open? That would be a yes. Are you open to me sharing my thoughts on this? Another one. If you feel like, you know, maybe, hey, they always feel like they're right about this. And I can't ever move them off of seeing my perspective. Even if I, after I've shared, you know, hey, can I. Would you be willing if I shared my perspective is to. Is to use the question, what would you need to hear to change your mind? What information do you think would change your mind about that? And what you'll most likely find is that these are deeply rooted beliefs that you're not going to change in this one conversation. Instead, it is you simply putting your flag in the sand and saying, my perspective is this. And if they go, you know, I don't want to hear your perspective, then you know, the conversation that you're in, it's not really conversation. It's really, you're just sitting in a lecture, all right, But I think your heart is absolutely in the right place. Affirm that this is their point of view. If you need to use a wet blanket statement. And lastly, I want you to be able to ask, are you against. Are you open to me sharing my take or my perspective or how I see things and then sharing that if they will allow it. If they won't, then you have your answer. Awesome question.
- [48:11]
Caller
Hello, dear person. This is Daniel from Toronto, Canada. When I went in a small group or somebody that really friend or love, I speak freely. But if in open spaces, I can go to the bottom, my mind doesn't produce a thought. If I want to say something, I just stopped breathing. Do you think hypnotized will be work? I've been trying Everything like you studying for a test for that exam. You know, the whole book at the moment of the exam is gone. Thank you.
- [48:54]
Jefferson Fisher
I so appreciate this question because you, my friend, are anything but alone. To everybody watching and listening. If you have ever felt just like this caller, you're good with a small group. But as soon as you get in front of other people, you freeze, you lock up your thoughts go, you, you feel like you know all the answers to the exam like you said, but all of a sudden you get there on test day and they're gone. And it makes you feel hopeless. Share that. I want you to give him. I want you to let him know that he is not alone and that he is worth, he's worth hearing and worth the time. So I just want to give you so much love in this, of knowing that there's nothing wrong with you. Lots of people have this concern and this issue and there's nothing wrong with that. Absolutely nothing wrong with that. 2. If you want to try hypnosis, go for it. I don't, I don't have any problem with therapeutic intervention. Therapies are great. Sounds like you're okay with one on one like you said, with people that you really love, you're all good with that. That's not a problem. It's when you get into a group or more public setting that grips you. I want you to know that there are groups which I'm sure you've already researched, but if you haven't, there are groups out there that are aimed at this right here to help more public speaking. I know there's the international group of like Toastmasters. There's also a small group type therapies where you get together in small groups and it's confidential and you can talk about things in practice because I need you to be able to practice and expose yourself to this. If you want to be better at taking the test, you need to take a lot of tests. It's not just all studying. You have to be able to be in that moment because I hear you saying you recognize the things that go wrong, that you stop breathing. Okay, well, how do we fix that? We're going to start breathing. How do we fix that? Like little baby steps at a time. You can't, you cannot try to all of a sudden be the master communicator in one fell swoop and all of a sudden everything's changed. You know what you want to say. You feel it. I need you to just unclench your fist, one fist at a time. Maybe it's Just one finger at a time, right? You need to breathe and just focus on that first before even worrying about what you're going to say. Because what I hear you saying is it is not a mindset problem. It is a nervous system problem where you freeze and your body is protecting you from something. So the question is, and what I know you're already probably doing in therapy is asking the question, where is this fear coming from? What is my body protecting me from? What threat is my nervous system acting against? Because I definitely feel this fear and I want to run from it. How do we tell ourselves that there's nothing to threaten, there's nothing to hurt us is being in it and showing our body that we're okay. That only comes through a whole lot of practice. Next, I want you to have this mindset of compassion and compassion for yourself. Again, you've done nothing wrong. There's way more people like this than you think. I think it's also okay to flip the mindset of I am somebody who cares deeply about deep interactions, deep friendships, deep conversations and that you are the type they go public groups and settings. They're not for me. I prefer the one on one and own that right and say I enjoy that I can talk to somebody one on one. It's in the group setting. Not my best. Then don't. Then let's find ways to one practice. But also be strategic on how you practice. Not set yourself up to be more frustrated than hopeful. And ways of knowing. Talk to the friends that you have, the people who pour into you and make sure you're not always. I want to make sure you're feeding yourself the right thing. I want you to fill your cup with the relationships and friendships that are going to support your, your life and give you that kind of compassion of knowing that you don't need to be anything different than who you are right now. Like I, I would love to be your friend. It sounds like you care about deep conversations and genuine friendships rather than trying to be all things to all people, right? So I want you to own and take that as a compliment that you are different for a reason. And there's nothing wrong with that whatsoever. If you want to increase the way you communicate publicly, the way we're going to do that is practice. And that means getting in front of a little bit bigger group, a little bit bigger group. Maybe it's just three people, then it goes to four people, maybe it goes to five. And maybe it's truly is a person to person at a time thing and you can try any therapeutic intervention. The biggest thing I want you to know is that you are not alone, my friend. You're really not. This Father's Day, when you ship UPS Air at the UPS Store, your items arrive on time with your money back guaranteed at no extra cost. It's like the father of all shipping services. It shows up to the airport way too early just to play it safe. It's overprotective about all the things that truly matter. And it's always prom, especially to be with family. Make it your first choice to celebrate your dad. Ship UPS Air with our money back guarantee, exclusively at the UPS Store US retail locations. Visit the upsstore.com airshipping for full details. Terms and conditions apply.