The Jefferson Fisher Podcast

Episode: The Lawyer’s Method to Shut Down Narcissism
Host: Jefferson Fisher (Civility Media)
Date: January 20, 2026

Overview:

In this episode, Jefferson Fisher draws on his experience as a trial attorney to share his top strategy for disarming manipulative and narcissistic communicators. Through actionable steps and clear examples, Fisher gives his audience practical ways to communicate with confidence, minimize conflict, and take control when facing manipulation in everyday life.

Key Discussion Points

1. Manipulation as a Universal Trait (02:55)

• Everyone manipulates at some point: Fisher acknowledges that all people, whether intentionally or not, have occasionally engaged in manipulative behavior.

  • "Disclaimer. Everybody manipulates... Whether you know that you're doing it on purpose, intentionally. Not intentionally. Everybody has been that person."
    • [03:42]

• Manipulation is a symptom, not a cause:

  • "Manipulation is not itself the root cause. It is a symptom of something much deeper."
    • [04:05]

2. Tactic #1: Stop the Manipulator’s Momentum (04:22)

• Manipulators need momentum. If allowed to control the rhythm of a conversation, they gain the upper hand by staying vague and fast-paced, making it easier to dodge specifics and distract from the truth.

  • "Manipulators need momentum. The more they can get you in rhythm, the more they can find that grasp of control, then they kind of get their claws into you."
    • [04:27]

• Fisher’s method in court: Slow the conversation down deliberately, breaking their pace to expose details and lower their control.

  • "If I keep up with their momentum, meaning if I'm tracking along and we're just talking at a fast pace, I am much more likely that I'm going to miss something because that's what they want you to do."
    • [05:01]
  • "I like for us to stop running for a second and just walk."
    • [05:49]

• Manipulators dislike specifics and lose their edge when forced to address concrete details.

3. Tactic #2: Use Short, Neutral Phrases (07:05)

• Avoid giving manipulators "tinder for the fire" by keeping responses unemotional and neutral.

• Common mistakes: Using sarcasm, passive-aggressive comments, or justifying yourself—these provide manipulators with more material to twist or escalate.

  • "You're giving tinder for a... you're throwing it into a fire is what you're doing. You're causing a major fire instead of that, pouring gasoline."
    • [08:00]

• Examples of effective short, neutral phrases:

  • "Noted."
  • "Got it."
  • "Appreciate it."
  • "Good to know."
  • "Thank you."
  • Nonverbals: Nodding, saying "mm hmm"

• "I'm giving you nothing to grab onto. There's nothing that you can grab and run with..."

  • [08:39]

4. Tactic #3: Set Boundaries with Action Words (11:46)

• Anchor yourself and make your boundaries clear with phrases like:

  • "I'm not getting pulled into that."
  • "I'm not going there with you."
  • "I'm not stepping into this."
  • "I'm not getting pulled into that. I want that to sear into your mind for a second."
    • [12:24]

• Use of action verbs (“pull,” “step,” “move,” “walk”) signals awareness of attempted manipulation and asserts control.

  • "When I use the verb pull, I am highlighting, I can see what you're trying to do. You're trying to lead me astray. I'm not doing that."
    • [13:11]

• Expect a strong, often frustrated reaction if the manipulator’s tactics fail; this is a sign of success.

  • "If they have a very high overreaction to that phrase, 'I'm not getting pulled into that', it is very indicative that what they're trying to do is not working. And that's a good sign to me, and that's a good sign to you."
    • [14:05]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "The more they can get you in rhythm, the more they can find that grasp of control, then they kind of get their claws into you." — Jefferson Fisher, [04:27]
• "They much rather stay in the abstract... They need the vague, they need the general. They need fast. They need momentum." — [06:19]
• "You're giving tinder for a... you're throwing it into a fire." — [08:00]
• "I'm giving you nothing to grab onto. There's nothing that you can grab and run with and try and distract me..." — [08:39]
• "I'm not getting pulled into that." — Multiple emphatic repetitions, [12:24]
• "Use words of direction... These are action words of somebody trying to move you off your place." — [13:55]
• "It is such a power move to be able to have that sense of confidence, of going, I know exactly where I am, and I'm not moving." — [15:05]

Timestamps for Major Segments

• [00:00 – 02:55]: Introduction; Jefferson’s courtroom experience with manipulators
• [02:55 – 04:22]: Universality of manipulation; it as a symptom, not a fundamental character flaw
• [04:22 – 07:05]: Tactic #1 – Stopping manipulator’s momentum; importance of slowing down the interaction
• [07:05 – 11:46]: Tactic #2 – Using short, neutral phrases; avoiding escalation
• [11:46 – 16:30]: Tactic #3 – Asserting boundaries with directional language; imagery of the drain; handling pushback
• [16:30 – End]: Final encouragement and confidence boost

Conclusion

Jefferson Fisher arms listeners with a three-step technique refined in high-pressure courtrooms for shutting down manipulative or narcissistic conversations:

1. Slow the pace and stop their momentum,
2. Respond with short, neutral phrases, and
3. Use directional language to firmly anchor your boundaries.

These steps help you regain control, protect your integrity, and avoid being "pulled in" to drama or manipulation. Fisher’s practical advice and memorable phrases provide clarity and confidence for your next difficult conversation.

Recommended Action:
Next time you sense manipulation—or find yourself in a heated exchange—pause, slow down, use neutral replies, and confidently state, “I’m not getting pulled into that.”

For more:
Connect with Jefferson Fisher, subscribe for weekly communication strategies, and check out resources like his book The Next Conversation.