How to Make Any Person Feel Seen with Will Guidara

Summary

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The Jefferson Fisher Podcast

Episode: What I Learned Running The #1 Restaurant in the World ft. Will Guidara
Release Date: May 12, 2026
Host: Jefferson Fisher
Guest: Will Guidara (Author of Unreasonable Hospitality; Former co-owner, Eleven Madison Park; Co-producer, The Bear)

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Episode Overview

This episode explores the transformative power of "unreasonable hospitality" in both service and communication. Host Jefferson Fisher and guest Will Guidara—renowned restaurateur and bestselling author—delve deep into what makes memorable human interaction, both in restaurants and everyday life. Their lively conversation covers actionable strategies for elevating team meetings, the art of feedback, creative leadership, and the critical importance of grace and presence.

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Key Themes and Insights

1. Presence, Intention, and Creativity in Service

• Hypervigilance and Focus:
  Will shares how years in hospitality have made him sensitive to every detail in a dining room, requiring intentionality to be fully present—whether as a guest or a leader.

  “If there's a chair where I'm looking at a wall, that's where I'll sit. Just because I've gotten pretty good at it. But I don't need... It's like an addict hanging out with heroin on the table. It's unnecessary.” (Will, 01:17)

• Beyond Brand—It’s About People:
  Both speakers stress that lasting impact comes not from a perfect logo or menu, but from making people feel seen and valued, surpassing mere expectations.

  “It is very, very common…to want to be really creative about the food, the logo, the uniform…Yet the one thing that people will actually remember is where people stop being creative.” (Will, 07:33)

2. Unreasonable Hospitality and Communication

• Defining Hospitality in Conversation:

  “The creative, intentional act of making people feel seen, heard and cared for above and beyond the service.” (Jefferson, 08:40)

• Feedback as Investment:
  Will argues that thoughtful criticism is as vital as praise.

  “If praise is affirmation, criticism is investment.” (Will, 11:41)
  He details best practices:

  • Criticize in private, not in public
  • Focus on behavior, not the person
  • Be consistent; don’t only give feedback when upset
  • Address the action, not the individual’s worth

• Metaphor of Training:
  Receiving criticism is compared to working with a fitness trainer—if someone never corrects your form, you’ll never progress.

  “If I'm doing a workout not the right way, I want him to tell me what I'm doing wrong. Otherwise, I'm just wasting time.” (Will, 14:34)

3. Grace & Charitable Assumptions

• Choosing Grace Over Reaction:
  Jefferson reflects that grace (“you get what you don’t deserve”) can feel unreasonable but is an essential component of meaningful conversation.

  “It would be unreasonable for me to have pause and decide that your worst moment is not going to determine how I respond.” (Jefferson, 17:02)

• Danny Meyer’s ‘Charitable Assumption’:
  Will shares a tenet from his mentor:

  “Charitable assumption is another way of saying give people the benefit of the doubt or ask the question before you say the thing.” (Will, 17:55)

  Example: When an employee is repeatedly late, ask about their circumstances instead of lashing out (19:28).

4. Team Leadership & Memorable Meetings

• The Pre-Meal/Daily Huddle Ritual:
  Drawing from restaurant pre-service traditions, Will advocates for intentional, frequent team meetings across all industries.

  “Inspiration is the greatest opportunity a leader has to actually step up and lead the people around them.” (Will, 22:55)

  Elements for Effective Meetings:

  • A regular cadence—ideally more frequent than what feels comfortable (23:22)
  • Focus not just on “what” but “how” and “why”
  • Preparation and storytelling
  • Written notes for each participant (30:21)
  • Rituals to open/close (e.g., “Happy Wednesday!”) (31:32)
  • Celebration and rotating leadership to develop public speaking and confidence (34:29)

• Applicability to Any Industry:
  Service and care are universal; the approach isn’t just for restaurants.

  “I genuinely believe everything matters—it’s just about how you look at your world and how you celebrate the impact you can make.” (Will, 28:09)

5. Organizational Culture & Inside Language

• Building Connection:
  Internal lingo/isms (e.g., “DBC”—Deep Breathing Club, “Crush him!”) foster identity and camaraderie.

  “We all want to feel like we’re part of something. And the fewer people that are a part of it, the more special it feels to be a part of it.” (Will, 36:53)

• Managing Stress and Energy:
  Non-confrontational reminders (like “DBC”) can diffuse tension in high-stress environments. (39:38)

6. Storytelling, Empowerment, and Spontaneity

• Hot Dog Story:
  Will recounts his famous hot dog intervention at Eleven Madison Park. Listening closely to a guest’s offhand regret, he procured a New York street hot dog, elevating the experience and redefining service goals. (43:48–49:12)

  Takeaway:

  • Be present
  • Don’t take yourself too seriously
  • “One size fits one”—bespoke service has power

• Never Let a Gracious Impulse Pass:

  “How many times do you have them, and when you have them, the whole idea is just do it.” (Will, 50:42) An idea from a podcast attendee that resonated with both speakers—everyday opportunities to uplift others must be seized.

7. Listening With More Than Your Ears

• Training to Listen for the Unsaid:
  Life-changing gestures in service and relationships come from reading needs, not just words.

  “You're listening, not just with your ears.” (Will, 59:15) “The best experiences are when you dream of the world you wish existed and then you invite someone else into your imagination.” (Will, 60:03)

• Translating Presence to Non-service Settings:
  Whether it’s hospitality or legal work, seeing and addressing unspoken needs is invaluable.

8. Vulnerability and Connection

• Creating Safety for Honesty:
  Will found that guests only shared food preferences after he first disclosed his own dislikes. Vulnerability from a leader opens the door for authenticity from others. (68:32–69:22)

9. The Power of Inspiration and Creative Exposure

• Constantly Learn and Borrow:
  Both speakers emphasize how exposure to new ideas and formats (e.g., audiobooks, field guides) sparks their own creativity. (76:08–78:08)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• “If praise is affirmation, criticism is investment.” (Will, 11:41)
• “Charitable assumption...give people the benefit of the doubt or ask the question before you say the thing.” (Will, 17:55)
• “Just opening up about something gave them permission to do the same in return.” (Will, 69:12)
• “Never let a gracious impulse pass.” (Will quoting a listener, 50:42)
• “Every day is the Super Bowl.” (Will, 32:10)
• “One size fits one.” (Will, 49:05)
• “Passion is contagious.” (Will, 25:10)

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Memorable Segments & Timestamps

• [01:11] – Will on vigilance and avoiding distractions in restaurants
• [04:35] – Discussion of Will’s Field Guide and prioritizing the guest experience
• [11:41] – On the value of criticism and how to deliver it
• [17:55] – Introducing ‘charitable assumption’
• [22:55] – Making team meetings truly inspiring
• [31:32] – Meeting rituals and the power of rhythms
• [39:19] – The ‘DBC’ Deep Breathing Club anecdote
• [43:48–49:12] – The famous Hot Dog Story and crafting magic moments
• [50:42] – “Never let a gracious impulse pass”
• [68:32] – Creating safe space for honesty through vulnerability
• [76:08–78:08] – Drawing inspiration from others’ creativity

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Actionable Takeaways

• For Leaders:

  • Implement regular, intention-filled team meetings with stories and participation.
  • Give praise generously, but also invest in people through consistent, thoughtful criticism.
  • Create and nurture a distinct internal culture, with language and rituals that reinforce connection.
  • Train your team to notice not just what’s said, but what’s needed—listen with your eyes and heart.

• For Individuals:

  • Replace assumptions with questions and grace; respond charitably to others’ worst moments.
  • Respond to gracious impulses immediately—don’t wait.
  • Share small vulnerabilities to build trust.
  • Treat every encounter, even the mundane, as an opportunity to uplift and connect.

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Further Resources

• Will Guidara’s Books:

  • Unreasonable Hospitality
  • Unreasonable Hospitality Field Guide (released April 28)

• The Bear (FX): Will is co-producer and creative advisor to ensure authenticity

• Follow Jefferson Fisher for more communication tools and strategies

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Transcript

[A]

Welcome to the Jefferson Fisher Podcast. On today's episode, my guest is Will Guidera. He is the author of the New York Times bestselling book, Unreasonable Hospitality. If you see a bright yellow book in an airport or a bookstore, it's most likely Will's. He is fantastic. He is the former co owner of the restaurant eleven Madison park in New York and under his leadership, it was named the number one restaurant in the entire world. And he is also the co producer of FX series Emmy award winning show the Bear. There are so many gems from this conversation. We talk all about the art of hospitality in conversation. How do you bring creativity and deliver more than just the minimum expectations and how we interact with one another. We talk all about how to have the right kind of meetings, how to get attention immediately, how to navigate the right way and at the end of the day, how to do it with grace and kindness and a little bit of something spontaneous that you never expected. Enjoy. So you go to a restaurant and then it's easy to kind of pick up on those little moments. I imagine even when you're working and even if you're just there hanging out, it's almost impossible for your eyes not to be just hyper vigilant the whole time.

[B]

Well, so with intention.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

The other night at dinner, I sat in the chair facing the window.

[A]

Yeah. I noticed that.

[B]

I will always. If there's a chair where I'm looking at a wall, that's where I'll sit.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Just because I've gotten pretty good at it. But I don't need. It's like an addict hanging out with heroin on the table. It's unnecessary.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. You don't need to be doing that.

[B]

I don't need the distraction because I will invariably like, wait, why are they.

[A]

Yeah. And all of a sudden you're. And then you're gone from the conversation.

[B]

And then I just miss the most beautiful part of the conversation that I helped to perhaps set in motion.

[A]

I get that. I have. One of my best friends, was a policeman forever. And still he sits always where he can see the door. Like that's just. He's not gonna sit anywhere. He can't feel comfortable not looking at a door when he's sitting down.

[B]

So I do the opposite.

[A]

You do the opposite. Well, yeah, because you don't want to see it. And one thing I was also.

[B]

My work doesn't have the capacity to save someone's life. That's true.

[A]

Well, you are training the Heimlich. You know what I'm saying? He might be And I was going to tell you, uh, this is a little gem most people don't know. So when I was at my old first law firm, big defense firm, and I was getting the itch of I'm in my mid-20s, and who. Everybody in their mid-20s thinks, I know this better than everybody. Like, I'm the smartest. I know this. I'm right. Everybody else is wrong.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And I was really wanting to learn business of, like, having my own business, because I went straight from law school into big law and doing that life and business.

[B]

As in starting your own firm.

[A]

Yeah. Or just how do you have your own employees? Like, what's that? How would you even do that? And so Covid, one of my best friends, amazing chef by himself, and he had just gotten let go of this restaurant. And then there was this, like, I don't know what they call it, class a commercial building that had a restaurant in it that was looking for a new person to come in. And so I came in with him and we opened that little restaurant.

[B]

But you actually did it.

[A]

And a coffee shop right next to it, like, American food, little place that did really well. And so I learned all about plate cost and all of, like, the things in it.

[B]

Yeah, dude, you're, like, on the floor.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

No way.

[A]

Yeah. And so it was. And I would help out on expo and try all the different. Yeah, man. And so it was.

[B]

Is that restaurant still there?

[A]

It's still there. I sold mine part if, like, I got. It was like, I could either try to get an MBA in business, or I could just put the same amount of money into.

[B]

Go work in a restaurant for a while.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. And doing it, even though many would say not the best business model for certain things, but it was fantastic. What I learned a lot. And I think. Whereas I wish I had had. And we're going to talk into this field guide that you have. I'm generally not a jealous guy. All right. All right. This field guide, as soon as I saw it and got it in my hands, I was like, doggone it, this is so good. I wish I had had that.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

Because I came in and a lot of my creativity, which I think I know, I'm actually a very creative person that just went into law and life has led me back to doing more creativity is. I got focused on brand. I got focused on the right logo, the right tagline, the right, like, aesthetic.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Instead of just serving people to what they above and beyond and exceeding that expectation. And I know a lot of your stuff is it's not just hospitality is not meeting expectation. It is exceeding it and giving people more than they think they could ever deserve.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And. And so that was my. Like, I need to make sure I mentioned that to him.

[B]

Thank you, Dan.

[A]

So I wish I had had. I wish I'd had that. But I got in and out. I was. I had it for like four years.

[B]

And you had fun.

[A]

I did. I had a blast.

[B]

And you learned a bunch.

[A]

I learned a bunch. I had some of the biggest laughs I've ever had in my life.

[B]

Just also, there are few things. There are few groups that will ever be as close as a group that has opened a restaurant together.

[A]

Right. Yeah.

[B]

Do you know what I mean? Because it's the entire emotional gamut.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, you have all the highs and the fun and the laughs and then those moments when you're on Expo.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And you're like, I was a very successful lawyer. How does my brain have an inability to figure out how to figure out what plate of food goes to what table within what frame of time? And like, and then there's the teamwork to figure it out. I love that.

[A]

And the thing was, at the time, the law firm was like, shut down for a year, you know, because they were trying to still get with the times of remote work.

[B]

So you had space and so.

[A]

Yeah, I had space. And because it was a commercial building, we were able to do a lot of stuff that others weren't and take advantage of proximity and 6ft or whatever. But, man, I laughed some of the hardest I've ever laughed. And being back a house doing stuff like that. And we. We had. It was also some of the worst hurricanes. And so we were able to provide a lot of food for first responders. And so. And so we're making food at like

[B]

4am let's open a restaurant. Then we have to figure out how to work within all of the adversity that is Covid.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

You know what? What else would be cool? Hurricanes.

[A]

Sorry. Anybody? Got it? Anybody? Yes. That's it. Hurricanes.

[B]

Let's go, man.

[A]

And. But mine is just a small fraction of just the depth of knowledge that you have in this industry. And I do. I absolutely want to get into the field guide, which I am just thrilled to be one of the first to get it in their hands.

[B]

What you articulated, like the brand.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It is very, very common for someone to get like, all right, I want to be really creative about the food on the plate. I want to be really creative about what plates we use, about what the Room looks like. I want to be creative about what the logo is and the tagline and the uniforms. And yet the one thing that people will actually remember is where people stop being creative.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And where they stopped. Where they stop. No one. Very few people rather invest their best efforts into just the big and little things that make people feel a sense of connection to a place. I think that's so right and it's so counter. Like the moment you say it out loud like that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's like, oh, well, that makes sense.

[A]

But yet.

[B]

But yet.

[A]

Yeah, but yet. I, you know, you have the book Unreasonable Hospitality and I'm going to be able to share with my audience all of your background. But I. My mind always turns to communication.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so I have been toying with the idea of like, what is the equivalent of unreasonable hospitality and communication? If we define hospitality as you do, the creative, intentional act of making people feel seen, heard and cared for above and beyond the service. What does that feel like look like in communication? So I was curious in your mind, what. Whether it's relationships, whether it's team, because I do want to talk team. What do you find are those moments that have been that unreasonableness that you benefited from in conversation with people? So some of your best friends?

[B]

Well, I mean, I think a lot of your work centers around hospitality, right? I really do. Those two words, creativity and intention, I circle back to often. I think the most beautiful things happen at the intersection of those two things. The intention of saying, I want to communicate this because a lot of people in communication are not very intentional about what is coming out of their mouths as opposed to saying, what am I actually trying to communicate? Okay, it's this then, creativity. What's the right way to communicate it? Such that the message will actually be received and depending on the context, in a way that is supportive and not destructive or thoughtful and not insulting. When it's that kind of communication, or if you're attempting to make someone feel some level of affirmation, they're actually communicating to them in a way that they can receive it well.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So like on the. I talk a lot about feedback. I think you cannot create anything extraordinary in a business absent like creating a culture where feedback is the norm. And when I talk about feedback, yes, I'm talking about praise, obviously, because when you set really high expectations for people and they meet or exceed those expectations, you better be there to celebrate them. A, because it's the right thing to do, but. Well, B, the more praise I receive, the more praise I want to Receive. Right. You're telling people what right looks like, and you're encouraging them to do more of that. And not to mention the fact that in a group, if we're having a daily huddle and I'm celebrating the heck out of you, everyone else in the group is going to be like, I want a piece of that. Exactly. So obviously, praise. But I think we focus so much on praise that we don't spend nearly enough time focusing on criticism. Because if praise is affirmation, criticism is investment.

[A]

So if we can say an equivalent of unreasonable hospitality and communication is the value of criticism done. Right.

[B]

Thoughtful criticism.

[A]

Thoughtful criticism.

[B]

And in the same way that I've watched your videos where you're like, hey, if you want to do this, like, do this.

[A]

Yeah, right, right. What are some other ways that you could.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

It was kind of like your idea of, like, there's a better way to do this.

[B]

There's a better way to do this.

[A]

You walk into a restaurant, a hotel, you know, there's a better way to do this.

[B]

But with criticism, I mean, unreasonable communication and criticism is recognizing that there's, like, things you need to keep in mind if you want it to be thoughtful, if you want it to be an investment. And let's criticize in private, not in public. Let's criticize the behavior, not the person. Remember that I'm telling you to wear white socks, not telling you you're an idiot. You know what I mean? You're great. Just do this differently to criticize consistently. Because some people are so uncomfortable with investing in someone else's growth through criticism that they don't do it until they're either in a bad mood or have the energy. And two things happen when you are inconsistent in criticism. People don't actually know what right looks like because they could do the same thing three days in a row and they're only getting called on it. The third or a negative connotation is attached to it, because you only do it when you're in a foul mood. Right. And so you do it in a bad way.

[A]

Do you think that there's a line between just feedback, general feedback, and also criticism?

[B]

I think criticism is a type of feedback.

[A]

Okay?

[B]

I think praise is a type of feedback and criticism is a type of feedback.

[A]

Not all feedback is criticism.

[B]

No. If you do something great, my feedback is, hey, you crushed that. That's feedback. Or if you do something not so great, hey, but listen, anyone that wants to grow, if they are not receiving criticism, they're never going to become their most Fully realized self.

[A]

Yeah. You have to have it.

[B]

It's like if. Do you see a trainer four like a physical trainer?

[A]

No, this is all organic growth that

[B]

just comes to use. Wake up.

[A]

Like that. Yeah, that's right. All right, well I do, I pro would benefit from one just.

[B]

I just started this year and it's a game changer.

[A]

Is it really?

[B]

What it's done is I spent.

[A]

I need somebody for nutrition. Like I need somebody to help go. You need to eat these things. Because if I'm not careful with school drop off and everything, I will miss breakfast. And I turn around and it's 2 o' clock and it's like, okay.

[B]

And then you're eating the least healthy

[A]

thing in the for sure. And then. And then it happens. I'm really not hungry for 5:30pm dinner with my kids. And so, you know, I. Not my best. That's what I need. Okay. So trainer.

[B]

Well, first of all, it's a great thing to have in my experience because I get as much done in half the time. But if I'm doing a workout not the right way, I want him to tell me what I'm doing wrong. Otherwise I'm just wasting time. And I'd rather invest that time efficiently and actually get stronger by result of the investment.

[A]

And how much stronger you could get if you just move your form just like a little bit.

[B]

But if every time the trainer was like, hey, do this, bro. Stop talking to me like that.

[A]

Yeah, I'm doing it right.

[B]

Guess what he's gonna stop doing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Correcting me because it's too exhausting to give me the feedback.

[A]

Yeah. Before we keep going, I wanna take a moment to tell you about Cozy Earth. First off, my mama has their pajama set which I gave to her last year. The company sent them to me, like here, maybe your mom's gonna like these. I was like, let me send them to my mom, who let me tell you, is the type of person who likes to salt and pepper everything. So she's extremely particular about all the things and she told me so much that she loved these. I got a text from her three weeks before Mother's Day asking me if I still had my code for Cozy Earth because she wanted some more pajamas. I said, mama, I will get them for you. So y' all know I got her some more pajamas, but that's how good they are. So if you. Whether it's Mother's Day or not, who cares if you know a mom or you're a mom or you're just Somebody who likes to sleep in a full set pajama. You can go to cozyearth.com Jefferson use the code Jefferson and get up to 20% off. They have a 10 year warranty. Awesome product, awesome company. Cozyearth.com Jefferson used to go Jefferson for 20% off. Let's keep going. When I was on the way, knowing this conversation was coming, I was like, wow. I was just wrestling and kind of chewing on the idea of like to me, what is that unreasonable hospitality in conversation. And the theme that kept coming up for me is grace. Like grace can be an unreasonable thing, like an unreasonable feeling. And it draws that line between mercy and grace. Mercy being you don't get what you deserve. Grace is you get what you don't deserve. And so so much in conversation, like you might deserve me to give you that clap back comeback insult right in your face. Yes, it would be unreasonable for me to have pause and decide that your worst moment is not going to determine how I respond.

[B]

Do you know the phrase that I learned from my longtime mentor? His name is Danny Meyer. Is Danny Meyer. It was one of the central tenets of the company was charitable assumptions.

[A]

When you say the company, I want

[B]

to unreasonable Union Square Hospitality Group. So that was like Gramercy Tavern, Union Square Cafe. It's where I came up. And there's a whole other idea about communication from that company. But he had these isms, like these short, succinct, I love a good ism. Bordering on cheesy articulations.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Of his non negotiables. And every time he made an idea into an ism, it was like a meta signal to all of us in the company that that thing mattered. One of them was charitable assumption. Charitable assumption is another way of saying give people the benefit of the doubt or ask the question before you say the thing. So I'll give you an example. Someone comes into the restaurant and they're just a jerk. They are just a jerk. They're acting like a jerk. Now it's totally reasonable for me to say he doesn't deserve my best hospitality. The charitable assumption though, would have me say instead, gosh, maybe on his way to the restaurant he found out that someone died or his wife filed for divorce. Maybe the guy acting like a jerk actually needs my hospitality more than anyone else in the room. And for me to have that conversation and engage accordingly. Now, sometimes just so avid, the person was just a jerk. Turns out, yeah, but I'd always rather err on the side of assuming the best in someone and being proven wrong than err on the side of assuming the worst and being proven wrong.

[A]

I think that's so true. If you can keep in your mind those maybes rather than they are exactly what you think they are. And sometimes maybe they are, but maybe they're not.

[B]

But it's the same thing when you're managing people. Someone comes in and they've been like five minutes late to work for two weeks straight. And because I'm not criticizing consistently, I wait until I'm really upset and I just rip into them like, do you not care about this job? Why do you think it's okay to disrespect us by coming in fighting da da da, da, da. Charitable assumption would be like, hey, what's going on? Are you okay? I've noticed you're five minutes late every single day. And is there a reason? And by the way, maybe it's because that person I'm speaking New York right now, lives in Queens. And there's two different buses that get them to Manhattan on time. One would have them arriving at the restaurant an hour early. One has them arriving five minutes late, and they have to get their kids to school. Okay, now I've asked the question. Now I have that information. Now I can say, you know what, why don't we just shift your in time back 15 minutes?

[A]

Yeah. Just a little bit like that.

[B]

And now that relationship, had I reacted the first way, it would have been damaged. Reacting the second way. Now it's actually stronger.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because now they feel like I'm actually invested in them not just as an employee, but as a human being.

[A]

And you gave them some grace.

[B]

Yeah. And I learned something along the way.

[A]

Right. And that in itself can be unreasonable.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Which. Which is I think the state of things. Sometimes it doing the kind thing can be and feel unreasonable to the given to the given moment. Now you have managed, I mean, just the number of teams and the number of pressure. And I have heard your story of how Levin Madison part had just went under your helm to the number one restaurant in the world, which is just bonkers.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But the level of determination, not for just the food being perfect or this being perfect, is that you cared about just as much about your team as you did about the people that you're serving. And so there are people that will be listening to this who have their own business, who are small business owners or big business owners, that they are people managers. And so what I was really curious about, what are some of the questions and things that we need to think about as People, managers. So what are some of your big, like, tenants that you're going, hey, if I have everybody on hand, I know you have, what do you call it?

[B]

Premeal, Pre meal.

[A]

Yeah. So those kind of like meetings. How do you, how can we better manage people?

[B]

Well, okay, let's start with premeal, because that's one of my favorite places to start and I'll frame what that is. So pre meal is the 30 minute meeting we have every day with our entire team right before we unlock the doors and go into service. And it's a meeting that most restaurants have, and yet it is one that is almost always wasted. And a wasted premium. That happens when, well, you spend the entire time talking about ideas that could easily be communicated via an email, like operational concerns. Because that meeting, it's called a daily huddle, right? In other worlds, yeah, daily huddles, in my view, the greatest opportunity a leader has to actually step up and lead the people around them.

[A]

So it's taken our daily huddle seriously.

[B]

Taking it very seriously.

[A]

For the regular mom, small business out there, when you have one, it's understanding daily huddles are a necessity. Do you require that it be every day or is it.

[B]

I mean, listen, when I'm talking to people in other industries, I never want perfect to be the enemy of the good.

[A]

A cadence that works.

[B]

A cadence that works. And the cadence should be more frequently than you're comfortable with.

[A]

Oh, that's a good basis.

[B]

Well, because most people, when they start doing this, they kind of start at somewhat the bare minimum. And there's always time to do something if we decide it's an important enough thing to do. Got it. I did 30 minutes a day before lunch and before dinner. So an hour a day, seven days a week, that is obviously not necessary, but some number of minutes. And when you have your team circled, it's not just focusing on the what, but on the how and more importantly, the why, when. As a leader, we are walking through the world looking for things that inspire us so that we can bring them home and share them with our teams. I've benefited from the popularity of TED talks, and yet I think those are so successful because as human beings we crave inspiration and very few people in our lives have answered the call to actually step up and inspire us. So many companies spend so much time focusing on training, which is important, obviously. And yet training absent inspiration is wholly insufficient. Because I don't care how well you know how to do a job, if you're not inspired to want to do it, really well, you're never going to bring your most fully realized self to the table. I think a lot of leaders, even the ones that have that meaning, there's something about people that holds them back from bringing their most passionate self to it, because we've all been on the receiving end of this at some point. Passion is contagious. If someone steps up in front of you and speaks with every ounce of their being, why the work you are doing matters, how you can impact other people, why taking it seriously is a virtuous approach to take, why there's fun to be had or connections to be made. Whatever it is, I don't think a lot of people can fully understand that. I think communication with your team, people need to stop trying to be so cool and just be really, really, really excited, because that bleeds into those around them.

[A]

That's hard for some people. I mean, I'm thinking of, like, you have the history of what you've created empowered and gave autonomy to your team to say, hey, when you see those magical moments that we can create. Unreasonable hospitality. When you overhear that table talk about going sledding or wishing they had a. You call it dirty dog, Dirty water dog, Dirty water dog, you know, the hot dog. And you're like, you know, how can we create these and cultivate these experiences with them? That is exciting because it's like you don't know. Every day is a new adventure of what could come up. And so that unexpected surprise. And I hear in my mind those people who I don't know, they're a plumbing industry or they're a fabrication shop, or they're a small accounting business of ways that they go, that sounds great, but I'm not in a restaurant. How can I possibly get excited about the fact that we do this and that and this, when what I hear you saying is you're focusing on the wrong objective. What you need to be focusing on is what are ways that you can inspire yourselves to be excited about what you're doing. And if you're excited, other people are gonna be excited.

[B]

The people around you will be too. But here's the thing. It's not just a restaurant thing. I think there's nobility in service. And I'd say 9.9 out of 10 of the people that are listening to this are in the service industry. They're in the business serving other people.

[A]

I am.

[B]

I think about the world that you came from. I would love to run a daily huddle in a law firm.

[A]

Well, you can do it for me, my man.

[B]

But do you know what I mean? So many people focus so much on the objective that they forget about the people they are there to serve and the anxiety and trepidation with which they're walking into that room. You are there to defend them, but you are also there to walk with them through an unbelievably scary experience.

[A]

Yeah. Absolute.

[B]

And remembering that it is much more than pleading a case.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's actually like defending a human being during some of their darkest moments. And if that is not noble, I don't know what is. But I'm saying I could do that about any industry.

[A]

Oh, I'm sure.

[B]

Because I genuinely believe everything matters. It's just about how you look at your world and how you celebrate the impact you can make.

[A]

Before we continue, I want to take a moment to talk to you about our place. Got a question for you. When's the last time you you've thought about what you're cooking with? In other words, the pan itself. Are you still using that pan from college? Well, let me tell you, you can upgrade. We love at our house, in our kitchen, our place, they have this four piece cookware set where it's like two they call always pans and two perfect pods. And they're awesome. Let me tell you why they're awesome because Saturday mornings is dad breakfast. And what I very much value a pan on is if I can do an egg, put some butter in there or oil and have an egg go perfectly. Well you can with this always pan. It's my number one go to aside from the cast iron that we keep in the back and it's been fantastic. So if you are somebody who also cares about what you cook with, in other words, it's nothing. That's like Teflon pfas, what they call forever chemicals. Something that's clean and you know it's going to do good for you. Look no further than our place. So stop cooking with toxic cookware and upgrade to our place. Today you can go to fromourplace.com jefferson use code jefferson for up to 10% off site wide. Plus you get a 100 day risk free trial with free shipping and returns which is awesome. That's fromourplace.com Jefferson for up to 10% off code Jefferson. Now let's keep going. I want to make sure we don't leave without me feeling like this. We, we button this up. So when it comes to communicating and people managing in teams. Yes one is you need to have take seriously the repeatable cadence of communication with your Team. Does it need to be in person, or can it be virtual, you think?

[B]

I think it could be virtual.

[A]

Okay. It just needs whatever it is.

[B]

It has to be consistent, and it needs to be. You need to be prepared for it.

[A]

Is there a certain way that you run the meeting in terms of we're going to talk about this, this, and this, or is it just kind of top of mind?

[B]

Well, so the way I always did it, I had notes that every single person on the team would be given a piece of paper.

[A]

Oh, you gave them a note?

[B]

Yeah. And the paper was kind of everything. All the stuff I needed to make sure they knew.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Depending on the company and the industry, it's different. Right. Like, health insurance enrollment begins on this day. This policy changed. This is a new system we're implementing. Da, da da da da da. Now they have all the information I needed to communicate literally in their hands. No one can ever say, I didn't

[A]

give it to them.

[B]

I didn't get the email, I didn't check the portal or whatever. It's literally in their hands. If I have a few housekeeping notes, I'll say that at the top, and then I will come in to that meeting prepared in the same way that I am now. When I step up on a stage, I'll say, all right, I want to tell you guys a story of something that happened to me last week. And da, da, da. I'll tell the story. Anyone who's ever done public speaking knows stories make ideas stick. And then I'll talk about the lesson that I learned from it, and then we'll talk about it as a group.

[A]

How do you end it?

[B]

I would always end with this. The way the meeting started would be, what's today?

[A]

April 4th.

[B]

Wednesday.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I would always say, happy Wednesday. The entire group would say back in unison, happy Wednesday. Just to start it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then at the very end, I would say, have a good service. And they'd all say back, have a good service.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Just because I believe in rhythms and rituals.

[A]

Well, I mean, there's. There's. There's a reason why people will say, turn to the person next to you and say, you know, I believe in this. You know, whatever it is, when people say it together, there is a feeling of that unison.

[B]

Well, also, like when you watch one of those locker room speeches at halftime in a movie, and the team comes back and wins the day. Let's go. It's so fired up because at the end, they put their hands in.

[A]

Exactly. Yeah, Yeah.

[B]

I would always say, Every day is the Super Bowl. Every day you walk into service, you need to take it seriously as the biggest game of your life. Otherwise there's people you're serving that might be the only time they ever come into the restaurant. So you better take it seriously for them. And there's something beautiful about team sports. And I think it's remarkable to me how many leaders played team sports in high school and college and yet don't take some of the lessons they learned from team sports sports into how they lead a team.

[A]

I can see that. I think it, I, I more and more believe that managing people is a very particular skill. It is a skill that can be learned, but it is not easily taught. Like, it's not something that without kind of being plugged into a system where you get shown how to do it. Yeah, it's, it can feel kind of like you're in a lost place. Like I hear you saying, okay, I have a, I have a way that I start. I have a way that I. And whatever industry you create it, how you want to create it, say what you want to say, yes, be as goofy and as you and genuine as you want to be. But there's some things that you're going to have to hit. And I love that you go, I'm giving you the information that I already know in black and white. You got to have to have two. I get to talk of what's on my heart and put it in a story, because everybody's got stories because we all live. You can just say what you did yesterday, but relate that to the point that you're wanting to hit home, whether it's something that is specific to a special moment or a way that they have created impact. And so I think even if a company were to pull up their latest Google review and read it to their team, oh my gosh, I mean, just to go just as a reminder, that person you touched is, this is how this is going to be.

[B]

And also finding and seizing and talking about inspiration is a practice. It's a muscle that you strengthen. You don't need it right away. Like in the beginning. Hey, I was listening to Jefferson's podcast yesterday and he said this and it stuck with me. And I want to share with all of you. Tell me how you react to it. Right, yeah, that's a great pre meal because now you're actually flexing your brain. And when you think together and dream together and create together, it brings people closer. The other thing I would always do, I worked Monday through Friday, very, very Long days. We're still open on the weekends now.

[A]

What's a long day?

[B]

9am to midnight.

[A]

Okay. Yeah, That's a long day. That would count for a long, long time, right? Sure.

[B]

On Saturday, when you got the schedule, there would be a star next to one person every Saturday, which meant you're running pre meal. And that gave them a heads up because I do believe public speaking is a leadership skill. And also, once you've delivered that speech and you know how hard it is to do it well, you're going to be one of the most attentive people next time you're on the receiving end of it.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And so the more you can push people outside of their comfort zone and have them actually lead, the more ready they are to become leaders when their days are right.

[A]

I love that. So actually changing who gets to lead it, like, whoever's doing it. And you're getting to change every single time, man. I think that's a great idea for people to have. For every team meeting that they have somebody else run it, because then you all share in both the privilege and the horror and the anxiety of leading. And then it doesn't go, oh, great. Okay, we got Greg again reading, you know, leading meeting here. It's, oh, okay, it's Lisa's turn. Oh, it's a different breath of air. You know, it's always changing.

[B]

There's always that quiet person on the team, and sometimes they will stand up in front of the team and just

[A]

stun people, just knock their socks off.

[B]

And then the confidence, like anyone you've ever seen that steps up on stage for the first time and is celebrated for the work they did, it changes their confidence level. And that confidence spills over into everything they do.

[A]

Right. I think that's sometimes the beauty of inside jokes, because it's something that we share and because we can kind of riff off each other and have that level of bond. Like if it's two people, whether it's, you know, they're, look, working on was the cold line or what. And they're, like, trying to. You know what I mean? And they're. Or they're prepping for the day, like, just to have that sense of. You have to find ways to make the mundane fun.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And sometimes that, to me, is the same thing we do in conversation. Like we have mundane conversation.

[B]

It makes you feel like an insider.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that's what we all want. We all want to feel like we're part of something. And the fewer people that are a part of it, the More special it feels to be a part of it.

[A]

Right.

[B]

That's why I love creating words within an organization or isms, like charitable assumption. Or we used to have all these little, like, if you. Let's say if I sell at a restaurant, now we've become friends. You come into the restaurant, I'm not there. I'm just going to send a text. Jefferson Fisher, table 42. Crush him.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And what that means, everyone on my team would know what that means. Which means there's 17 different things we can do to elevate someone's experience. Do as many of them as feels natural to what he's doing there tonight.

[A]

Crush him.

[B]

Crush him. I love that if I were to say that to someone else, they wouldn't even know what I was talking about. But to my team, it's clear they said that.

[A]

Right. There is gonna have to be a special experience for whoever is there that night at the table or another one.

[B]

This actually feels like it fits into your work. DBC was another one of our isms, which is, listen, no matter what you do, restaurants are an extreme version of this. High paced, chaotic environments.

[A]

It was mad.

[B]

Yeah. People can get into the weeds. And when you get into the weeds and you start to get overwhelmed, that's when you start making mistakes. And that's when you need someone on your team to tell you to chill out or calm down. And yet have you ever told someone who was overwhelmed to chill out or calm down and had it achieve the desired effect?

[A]

Never. Never.

[B]

So dbc, one of my best friends, his name is Andrew Tepper. He and I went to preschool together. He's still one of my best friends. He got a graduate degree in social work and he does a lot of amazing work with kids. And he was working at a psychiatric hospital where there's a lot of kids there. And he felt like the therapists were just over prescribing sedatives when kids were having difficult times. So he went to his parents basement where they still had silk screening equipment from when he was a kid. And he designed these really cool T shirts that just said in block letters dbc, which meant the Deep breathing club. And he wore one of them to the hospital and all the kids were like, dude, that's such a cool T shirt. He goes, do you want one? And they're like, yeah. And he goes, here's how you get.

[A]

Here's how you get one.

[B]

And all they had to do was overcome a potential meltdown three times in a row through deep breathing and deep breathing alone.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Six months later, half of the kids in the hospital were wearing DVC shirts, and the amount of sedatives being prescribed had dropped dramatically.

[A]

Deep breathing club.

[B]

So I brought him to the restaurant. I had him lead pre meal a bunch of times over the course of a month. And I said to the team, I was like, guys, sometimes people here lose their cool. They need to be told to calm down, they need to be told to chill out. And yet we all know that never feels good. So we're just replacing the words now. It's dbc.

[A]

I love it.

[B]

And so literally every night, someone would just walk over to someone else and just whisper it in their ears, like, hey, dbc, I got you. What can I do?

[A]

I love that.

[B]

And the simple change. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

But also having somebody come alongside you and be like, hey, I got you. I got your back. I've been there. Because. And when you're back a house.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And you have that chef or the person, and then there's like. It's just like the bear. Right. It's like you have people yelling and like, you realize in that moment, they're just stressed out.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That's not who they are.

[B]

Their energy is impacting you negatively as opposed to your energy impacting them positively.

[A]

Exactly. You know, you worry about this, I'll worry about. And it gets into that. I want to. I want to know a little bit. So you co produce FX the Bear, which is just the wildest thing. Again, I'm not very often a jealous guy, but the creativity projects that you're in, oh, man. I'm like, that's so cool. All right, so first I want to know when you. How do you get involved in this project? And then how did you make sure that what is on film. I know there's other writers and a whole cast of amazing people that are helping bring this to life, make sure that it reflects exactly kind of what was going on and what you've seen in your whole experience and live in Madison park and everything else.

[B]

One second. So how I got involved. I was not involved with the bear from day one. I got to know Chris Storer, who's the creator of the bear. Awesome. Awesome guy.

[A]

That's cool.

[B]

Unbelievably creative. And by the way, one of the most remarkable leaders. The way that every single person, regardless of position on that show is treated and how they all feel such a genuine sense of ownership in the product as a whole. And I want to share one thing they did in a moment to reinforce that, but they did the first season, all of a sudden, it's a hit. At this point, I'd gotten to know him a little bit and he came to the release party for unreasonable hospitality. Like the dinner that I had when the book first came out. Then season two is about three months from coming out, and he emails me and they were doing all the editing in Brooklyn. He's like, hey, can you come out to our offices at some point in the next couple weeks? I wanna show you something. I was like, yeah. So I go out and they show me episode seven of season two. It's called Forks. And the entire episode is effectively right out of my book.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And it's this beautiful episode. Literally lines of text. There's things in the script that are verbatim what was in the book and this whole story. My book has a famous story about a hot dog. It's reimagined as a deep dish pizza. In the episode.

[A]

Yeah. I want you to tell them real quick the hot dog.

[B]

The hot dog story.

[A]

Yes. They need to hear it. It's too good.

[B]

So the hot dog story, it's one of the stickiest out of the book. And by the way, it's an example of why stories make ideas stick. That happened with me in the restaurant as we were really trying to figure out what unreasonable hospitality meant. I'd written it down because I knew there was something in that approach, but didn't yet understand how it would be brought to life.

[A]

Meaning you wrote the words down.

[B]

I wrote the words down. I want to be unreasonable in pursuit of hospitality. Great.

[A]

And you're managing 11 Madison park at the time. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. Which for anybody who doesn't know, is just the most amazing restaurant.

[B]

And it was already like, at that point, we had three Michelin stars. We had all the stars. But. But I wanted to be the best,

[A]

which is mind blowing.

[B]

That was. Thank you. Thank you.

[A]

That's mind blowing. And what, you were like, top 20? Something like that.

[B]

Well, and I wrote those words down when we came in 50th.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

Of the 50 best.

[A]

Yeah. Okay. Which is still like.

[B]

But that's just not how I'm.

[A]

And you were like, in that room.

[B]

I was last place.

[A]

Okay. Yeah.

[B]

Anyway, one day I'm in the dining room on a busier than normal lunch service. The team is in the weeds. And so I was doing what I would always do when I was helping out the team. I was just clearing dirty plates. Mostly because my dad, one of the lessons he taught me when I was coming up, he goes, hey, the further up in the hierarchy you find yourself. When you choose to help, just do the most menial thing as often as you can. Because it's a great way to communicate to your team that you're never going to ask them to do something you are either unwilling or incapable of doing yourself. It's a great way to show your fire as a leader.

[A]

I love that. So as meaning the higher up you go in the hierarchy, if it is as simple as gathering up a trash can and rolling up and tying up

[B]

the bag, just do it.

[A]

You need to show the signal that you're not above anything.

[B]

Yeah. And you can also do it.

[A]

Exactly. You're not gonna ask them to do anything else.

[B]

Yeah. Like, hey, I'm not above it. And I can actually do it pretty well.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

As I was clearing appetizers, and it was this table of four. They were foodies, like Europeans on vacation to New York, but just to eat at restaurants. And this was their last meal. They were headed straight to the airport from the restaurant to go back home. And while I was there, I overheard them talking and they were just raving about their trip. They'd been to all the fancy French four star restaurants and now 11 Madison. But then one woman at the table jumped in and she said, yeah, but we never got to have a New York City hot dog. And it was just one of those light bulb moments from a cartoon. I went into the kitchen, dropped off the plates, ran outside of the hot dog cart, bought a hot dog, ran back inside. Then came the hard part. Convincing my fancy chef to actually serve it in our fancy restaurant. But I asked him to trust me even more. So I told him it was important to me. That is another articulation we'd use a lot. This is important to me.

[A]

I want to make sure I set that aside. That is a big deal. Even in relationships. This is important to me. Saying those words is a different, higher caliber of communication.

[B]

Yeah. And so we can come back to that in a little bit. And eventually, he cut the hot dog up into four perfect pieces, put one on each of the plates, added a little swish of ketchup, one of mustard, a little scoop of sauerkraut, one of relish, topped it off with a micro herb to make it look fancy enough. And then before their final savory course, which at the time was our honey lavender glazed muscovy duck that had been dry aged for two weeks.

[A]

As one.

[B]

As one eats for lunch on a Wednesday, for sure.

[A]

I ate one yesterday. Great.

[B]

I brought out what we in New York call a dirt dirty water dog. And I explained it. I said, hey, I ever heard you talking, I didn't want you to go home with any regrets. Here's that New York City hot dog. And dude, they freaked out.

[A]

Did they just lose it?

[B]

I mean, at that point I'd served really fancy food, tens of millions of dollars worth of it, at some of the best restaurants in the country. I had never seen anyone react to anything I'd served.

[A]

Tonight you served the highest quality of beef, seafood, the top of the top of the top. And here you give, yes, a New York just off the street hot dog. And he just loses his money. Yeah.

[B]

And you know, it's in those moments in so many businesses, every single day someone does something spontaneously that is brilliant. That's not what defines the company though. What defines them is if they identify that something great just happened and they slow down for long enough to figure out why it just happened. So they can put intention to the intuition. And it was a few simple things. It required being present.

[A]

I was listening.

[B]

Yeah. I wasn't looking at what I needed to do next. I was just so fully focused on that table that I stopped caring about everything else. And that's why I was able to pick up on the line. Second, it required. Yeah, obviously we took what we did seriously. But as a rule I've never taken myself that seriously. And I think far too many people in life or companies in business, we're so focused on perfecting brands that we are not focused enough on just pursuing people. We end up with these self imposed standards that effectively disrupt our ability to give other people joy. A hot dog is not on brand in a four star restaurant. But who cares when you look at how it made them feel, right? And then third, this idea that that hospitality is just making other people feel seen. And the best way to do it is not to treat people like a commodity. One size fits all will only ever take you so far. It's the same reason why at Christmas I don't buy everyone in my family the same present. I buy people individual presents based on who they are.

[A]

Or imagine buying your wife the same present you did last year.

[B]

Honestly, I looked at your facial expression before and it really seems like it worked.

[A]

Thought I'd get it for you again. Yeah.

[B]

But in unreasonable hospitality, one size fits

[A]

one, One size fits one.

[B]

And so those three things be present. Stop taking yourself so seriously. One size fits one. And that hot dog changed everything for us.

[A]

And what you do so well in the book, and the book is full of these examples where you go, you could have just heard the conversation and go, ah, it kind of blows for that guy didn't get a hot dog. Okay, next table. Instead, you said, what if? Right? And built off that. And then you hired somebody specifically for creating these magical moments.

[B]

Someone there is a resource to help everyone create them. Because I think what's important is everyone on the team needs to be empowered to come up with these ideas. You just need to make it easy for them to deploy those ideas.

[A]

They have them.

[B]

Yeah. And by the way, I mean, it happens to us all the time in life. How many times have you seen something or thought, like, man, that would be really cool to do for this person. Gosh, I'm too busy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And we hired a person onto the team just so all you had to do was say, hey, Emily, can you do this? And she would make it happen.

[A]

I'd say, my habit is, I'll say, once this is done, then I will. It's easy to go, this is just a really crazy week. But after this, I'll be able to get to that. And then it's funny how there's always another.

[B]

Do you know, I was in a. I did a talk, and in the meet and greet afterwards, a guy came up, he's like, you know, we have this expression in my family. And your speech really made me think of it. Never let a gracious impulse pass. And gosh, I love that.

[A]

That's some good stuff.

[B]

Because how many times do you have them? And when you have them, the whole idea is just do it. And I was literally at the Goodwill that weekend with my kids. We call it the Treasure Store.

[A]

The Treasure Store. It's pretty apt, too.

[B]

And basically every so often we call it Treasure Store Day. We have to go up into the room and we take 10 things and we go give them to the Goodwill. And then they can buy one thing from the Goodwill.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And Andrew, the guy, the DBC guy, when we were growing up, he loved the band Sublime. And he would literally, like, busk on the streets playing Sublime songs. And we're in the Treasure Store and I see a Sublime T shirt in his size as we're like an old school Sublime T shirt. And I just heard this guy say, never let a gracious impulse pass. If I'm being honest, like a version of me would have seen that and been like, man, Andy would like that. And I gotta buy it and then I gotta put it in a box and go to the thing. And I would've just walked right past it. But this time I was like, no, I had a gracious impulse. I can't let it pass. I took it off the thing and sent it to him. And he was like, dude, that was the coolest gift.

[A]

Isn't that awesome?

[B]

It took all of 15 minutes and probably $2 just to have that. But just do it. And you have a gracious impulse. Do it.

[A]

So recognizing those, those gracious impulses, not just in relationship, but also in your own business of the way you get business in life.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I think when you again in the book, to me, it's like, if you ever wonder which one's Will's in the store, just look for the brightest yellow one. That's the one, dude. That's the one. That's the one to get. You need to go get it like an everyday airport. Yeah, just whatever. By the way, have you. I would assume you love this. I would assume you know him. I don't know him. Maybe one day. Of the guy who started the Savannah Bananas.

[B]

Oh, yeah. Jesse Cole.

[A]

Yes. Okay. Also yellow.

[B]

He is amazing, by the way.

[A]

But I mean, like, that's like right up you're kind of.

[B]

He spoke at my conference in New York last year.

[A]

Okay, well, then there you go. And I see a lot of like

[B]

parallels with just their work is very, very similar to ours. Just three Michelin star restaurant and a minor league baseball team and how they kind of came closer to one another.

[A]

Yeah. And I think that's just one of the many examples in which any business I think, can do this. And I know y' all train a lot of these businesses. When you go out, a lot of service industry folks of how can you. Because they need a little bit of help. They need a little bit of push to be like, we just need to get some of that. That unreasonable.

[B]

Let's get a little bit of that.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It reminds me of my dad and I love a brother route though, because it's just so quotable.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And he goes, we need to get some of that reform. And so he's like. Because the other guy's a reform candidate. And they're like, maybe we need to get us a little reform. So that's, you know, sometimes you just, you need that push because sometimes you need somebody on the outside for sure.

[B]

Looking at it, it's just easier. You see things with fresh eyes.

[A]

Before we keep going, I want to take a moment to tell you about upwork. You grow, you and your business grow not by doing more things, but by doing the right things and letting Go of the rest. And I know what I struggle with sometimes in several businesses that I've begun is that delegation is a problem because I would rather sometimes spend way too long, too many hours trying to look up how to do something or work some other platform when I could have just gone to upwork. Upwork has a selection of seriously, some of the best freelancers out there for everything you could possibly want to do. I'm talking about data and analytics, software and development, marketing, business operations, people who want to do a logo or video editing or help with a brand. You name it, they're all there. And so what's so great is that instead of spending weeks of trying to research something, Upwork already has them. It has a full profile. You can see all the work they've done. You can see their portfolios for things. I've hired people from upwork and I have not been disappointed. So if you want the best of the best, Upwork's Business plus gives you access to the top 1% of talent with AI powered matching that connects you with the right freelancer in under six hours. That's pretty incredible. It also handles contracts and payments all in one place, which means less admin for you, which means happier life for you as well. So thousands of businesses are already using upwork to scale smarter. It's free to sign up and posting a job, as simple as visit Upwork.com right now and post your job for free. That's Upwork.com to connect with top talent ready to help your business grow. That's u P w o r k.com upwork.com let's keep going.

[B]

But so, okay, back to the bear. Yeah, they asked me to go out there and they show me this episode, and literally at one point, the guy is walking, holding my book and reading it, like voraciously in the episode. And they're like, is this cool? Effectively, they asked me to go out there to say, is this cool? That we used a lot of stuff from your book. And I was like, well, yeah, obviously it's cool. It's beyond cool. I'm so flattered. This is amazing. My book is now in one of the hottest television shows in America. And that's when they were going from the little beef stand and they were about to open a proper restaurant. And in the same meeting, they're like, also, can you join the team and be a writer and a producer as we move into this next season? And I was like, well, heck yeah. You know those moments where I'm like, I don't know how much you're paying me. I don't care. Am I alive? The answer is yes.

[A]

Am I awake?

[B]

And, man, it is so fun. Your question was, how did I ensure that things were actually real?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it's television, so it's all dramatized a little bit.

[A]

Yeah. But, I mean, it's about as close as it can get to what it really is.

[B]

And I think it circles back to the culture on that show. Like, I mean, some of the actors on that show are now not only phenomenal, but also really famous.

[A]

Yeah, that too.

[B]

Right. And when people get really famous, oftentimes they stop being as good at listening or they don't necessarily feel the need to learn as much. No one on that cast is like that. I mean, there is one, episode, one of season three, Carmi, the chef, picks up a tray to bus a table in the morning, and I was like, are you cool if I show you the right way to do that? And he's like, yes, please. Something that simple. He just wanted to know what right looked like. Because if you've been in the restaurant business, like his character had been, you would know the right way to do it or how to expo. Like, I did expo classes. I mean, the most fun thing is I basically got to design a restaurant and never have to run it. You know, like, the plates and the florals, and there's all these stories within the story that most people would never even notice. But.

[A]

But I mean, how cool is that? You just get to kind of live in that creativity. So I want to make sure that you don't leave without me asking. Some of these is. I mean, I know I could text you, but this is too good. Of when you're thinking, you know, the hot dog moment and all the other stuff in your book. I love the one with the sled of, like, all these others is what made the difference is you led and empowered your team by example to listen.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

None of that happens without having the specific and right ear for it, because you're not listening to the conversation. You're listening to the need that is almost unspoken. And so it's not like the guy said, man, you know what would be great? If somebody brought me a hot dog. You know what I mean? He didn't say that. And so you heard the need that wasn't even exactly spoken. And I feel like in conversation and in teams and especially with customers, clients, you're having to have the right to train your ear for the right kind of needs. And so I don't how did you do that? Did you teach them to listen for anything?

[B]

Well, yeah, by the way, I mean, you know this better than anyone. You're listening, not just with your ears. Right? Like, I think I have found that you can teach people how to do something and you can be like, hey, if someone says this, just go back in the conversation before you even arrived there. Where did that thing come from? You might not have heard it. And where could it go next? The sledding. Someone says, our kids have never seen snow before. Okay, so where does that go next?

[A]

What could it be?

[B]

What could it be? I think the best experiences are when you dream of the world you wish existed and then you invite someone else into your imagination.

[A]

That's a good one.

[B]

So, like, all right, they've never seen snow. These are kids. What do kids love doing in the snow? Sledding. Oh, my gosh, let's go buy them sleds right now.

[A]

Yeah. These spontaneous moments.

[B]

But then even the things that you don't hear, I mean, the stories that get celebrated the most out of the book are the more over the top ones. But you can tell when someone's on a first date the moment you go over and greet them at the table. It's pretty clear when you've done it long enough. And you can tell without having to be at the table whether the first date is going really well or whether they're just struggling to find their groove. You can tell when people are talking to one another a ton or when there's just a bit of awkward silence. Okay, so unreasonable hospitality doesn't mean having to buy a hot dog. It could mean, gosh, this guy is having a hard time getting a conversation going. I'm going to go hang out with them at the table for a little bit.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And I'm just going to start talking to him and I'm going to try to get them laughing and I'm going to try to get them each to put their guards down and then I'm going to leave. And hopefully I've gotten them up to enough of a moment.

[A]

I love this. Okay. I love this. So that's what this is. My brain's going is it's not just listening with your ears, it's also listening with your eyes. Whereas every time with a customer or a co worker or somebody coming into your restaurant or somebody you're in a relationship with, it's listening with your eyes. How are they reacting? And so you have the privilege in a restaurant, when you see some of the most intimate moments, you go this date's not going well. Or somebody is fighting. You can tell it's tense and they're having a hard time in their marriage, maybe. Or two guys who are talking about a business deal or something. And just for that brief moment, the staff is able to kind of. The waiter, the waitress are able to kind of be able to curate something to say. Let me listen with my eyes here. What else is read the room.

[B]

Sometimes, like, based on what's happening over there, maybe I should just stay away.

[A]

Yeah, that too.

[B]

Like, they're having a really good conversation. How many times have you been halfway through a story at a restaurant and someone comes over and says, how's it going? And you're like, can you just leave me alone right now? You just ruined the punchline.

[A]

Yeah, the worst is, like, when you're in serious conversation and some cheery young guy comes in and he's like. You're like, oh, man, can you not see that? Like, we're hanging on by a thread right here? We're barely holding on. No, just. I don't need a refill. You're good. Yeah, there's those moments, too, but it's like when you can also listen with your eyes and see the reactions of other people. And how does that translate to when you see that person who is running five minutes late and they look frantic or they look hurt, or there's things going on, you can tell beneath that surface it's not just going well. You didn't say anything, but you saw it.

[B]

I mean, it's the same thing in life, though, like how times you invite people over to your place, and if you actually just take a moment in tension and just look at everyone in the room, you can pretty quickly tell the person that just feels awkward. Maybe they just don't know anyone and they're not good at starting a conversation with someone. They feel out of place. It is so easy to just be the person. Never let a gracious impulse pass that walks over and says, hey, Joe, come here. I want to introduce you to Jefferson. You guys both play the drums. That's unreasonable hospitality. But you just. You cared enough to identify what needed to be done and then to do something with what you saw.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And like, I'm just saying, it exists everywhere. It just. By the way, it's so cool when you get to do that for other people. So why not just do it all the time?

[A]

Yeah, well, why not? Why don't I just do it every day?

[B]

I mean, it.

[A]

Yeah, I think it's all the time. I I truly think the world would be just so much more fun. And I think when you can find ways to be more spontaneous, more creative.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, like, what I would often try and do is just have conversations in the most random of places just to, like, just switch up, up. Even if it's at, like an ice cream shop. Like, just, you know, like, I. When I first was starting my. The new law firm, that's what I did. I would try and have a conversation with the client of like, I was like, you don't want to go sit in my office? Let's go. Yeah, let's go sit somewhere at this. I know a lot of people do a coffee shop or like, I would do a park or just. Because let me show you that if I can at least bring a little

[B]

bit of a hundred percent.

[A]

You know why I like this park? This park reminds me of this time I was with my dad and I did this. And. And just to be able to share a little bit of that context and story is enough for them to trust you more than any degree they'd see on the wall in your office.

[B]

Well, and also, you just said something that makes me think of two things. One, I don't mean to talk about Andrew this much, but he's a therapist now, and he doesn't do therapists in an office. He lives in the Hudson Valley. And there's two ways to see him. You can either go on a hike with him or you can go skiing with him. Them.

[A]

Skiing?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Oh, my goodness. How do you.

[B]

On the lift.

[A]

Oh, on the lift. That's awesome. I'm terrified of ski lifts, but.

[B]

So then go. You. You do.

[A]

I'll do the.

[B]

You do the hike.

[A]

I'll do the hike. Yeah.

[B]

Or you do cross country.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But also, what you're doing, you're bringing the new park. You're changing the environment. I think a lot of communication is. I mean, for me, communication is about connection.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And connection happens when people let their guards down. And part of that is earning informality. And just changing an environment into less formal environment is a way to fast track the idea of earning informality. But the other thing you do in offering, the thing about you and your dad and why you love that park is you're offering up a piece of yourself, which is an invitation to them to do the same in return. We did this thing. I went to a restaurant in New York, and on the menu it said, don't tell us if you're allergic to anything. We don't make substitutions in the food. I was like, okay, this is unreasonable, but not unreasonably hospitable.

[A]

That almost sounds illegal.

[B]

Yeah, it's just rude. It's like. And so I went back to the restaurant. I was like, I want to go. I want to run hard in the opposite direction of that. Obviously, we asked about allergies, but this was a tasting menu. Certain people don't like certain things. So I was like, I want to spend the next month coming up with endless permutations of everything we serve so that at the beginning of the meal, we can say, are you allergic to anything? Also, is there just anything you don't like or anything you're not in the mood to eat tonight? Let us know and we'll make sure you don't see it.

[A]

That's a great one.

[B]

But here's the thing. We started it, and by the way, it took a long time, and it was expensive because.

[A]

Took a long time for what to

[B]

do to redesign an entire menu.

[A]

Oh.

[B]

Because if you have chicken that's served with mushrooms and someone doesn't like mushrooms, it's not a good experience just to remove the mushrooms. So now you have to have an entirely different chicken dish to serve them.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

But it was important to me. And so we did all this work, and then we started it. Day one, no one told us a single thing they didn't like. Day two, no one told us a single thing they didn't like. So now we're just throwing away food

[A]

that we've been prepping.

[B]

And I was like, what is going on? And so I took a station, meaning I was a waiter on day three or four, because sometimes the best way to solve a problem is to actually just get in there yourself. And again, first table, second table, third table, no one's telling me anything. And I was like, I wonder if it's this, which is. This was like, Anthony Bourdain had his show, and there are all these shows about people traveling around the world eating weird stuff. I was like, maybe people just don't think it's cool to not like stuff, and so they're embarrassed.

[A]

My son's really cool. He's just straight butter noodles, man.

[B]

I can barely get him to eat anything, by the way. That's a real experience for most of

[A]

us right now, for sure. But that's what you go, maybe they

[B]

don't feel comfortable doing well. So the next table I went over, I said, is there anything at all you don't like? And they're like, no. And I was like, can I tell you guys something. I really don't like oysters, and I really don't like sea urchin. I was like, you didn't ask. I just felt the need to share. And they're like, you know what? I actually don't like beets. And I don't like whatever they said. And all I needed to do was tell them something I didn't like. And then they were like, oh, wait, this is a safe space to talk about not liking stuff. I'm not saying that not liking oysters is a display of profound vulnerability.

[A]

Right, Right.

[B]

But just opening up about something gave them permission to do the same in return.

[A]

It's vulnerability.

[B]

It's vulnerability. And that's. You gave. When you're saying, I like this park because of this, that guy's like, oh, we can actually connect on more of a human level.

[A]

Right. All of a sudden, it has nothing to do about degree or experience. And it ends up that. I mean, that's just one element of many that they care about. But see, a lot of people could have experience. It's all the different stuff that they can have of what's your personality. And I think that's awesome.

[B]

And then, by the way, that person shares something with you about their dad, and then you go and you win the case. And a week later they get a little note from you acknowledging that about their dad. And maybe he said his dad was a big Dallas Cowboys fan. And so you put on a little Dallas Cowboys baseball hat and you say, what a pleasure it was to work with you.

[A]

Exactly. Just those little bitty touch points.

[B]

And they're going to remember that Dallas Cowboys hat more than they're going to remember the smart way that you argued their case in the courtroom.

[A]

This unreasonable hospitality field guide. I'm so jealous of it. I'm gonna keep telling you that one it is.

[B]

Thank you, by the way.

[A]

Yeah, absolutely. Let me tell you why I love this thing. I like your book, and it's about hospitality. It's great. It really is. It's also having written a self help nonfiction book. And this is. We're kind of in the same category. What makes this so different is one, it's kind of like as soon as you get it, it feels like it's. I was in Cub Scouts.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so it's very much a field guide like this. It's like I. It kind of looks like I should be learning how to like, build a fire or like some. Not like certain types of, you know, overhand knot. But I can see. I wish I had had this when I had the restaurant. Cause one it's super colorful. So you did a really good job of making it to where you want to read through it. The illustrations are really cool. Things change. It doesn't look like it's just ho hum. And so the design of it is really cool. And that's probably just like my brand like self.

[B]

I wanted so badly for a workbook about hospitality to itself be hospitable and not feel like work. And so the designer is this guy named Don Clark who has literally worked with Pixar and NASA and Lego. And I convinced him to do this with me.

[A]

If I, I'm telling you, if there's anybody that I could just freaky Friday, you know what I'm saying, and just trade your life, man, that's what I would probably do. Like this one that I really, really like. Okay. That I had bookmarked. So you have why is Joe struggling? And this is like a decision tree. And so I thought, oh my gosh, how many Joes do we know of? Like somebody on my team is struggling with something. And then you have this tree of Joe's struggling because he doesn't care and he's not trying. Like that's rarely the case. But it's so easy to think they just don't care in relationship. It's easy. The first thing to say is, well, you just don't care.

[B]

You just don't care.

[A]

And that's never the truth. Well, rarely, if ever, Joe is trying but still not succeeding. You have all these like different ways of. If it is true that he's struggling because he doesn't care, fire Joe as fast as you possibly can. Right.

[B]

Get him out.

[A]

That's really. Yeah.

[B]

If that's actually the reason.

[A]

But is Joe is trying but not succeeding.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Then it's all these like, is it training? Is it too much too fast? Is something else going on? It's like listening with your eyes kind of thing. And I, when I first looked at this, I was like, dude, this is so cool. Like, do you know if they're in the right role? It talks all about on specifically what you had mentioned a minute ago of your rules for criticism. You know, how do you have these teams together? A lot of the things that you and I covered. And so when I look at this one, I'm super jealous of it. Number two is you're going to help so many people with this thing. Oh man, you really, really are. And it's not at all for just restaurants. And here I am Sitting with somebody who, who was part of the number one restaurant in the entire world. I've never been one day. I'm gonna go, I've never been one day.

[B]

I mean, it's different now, but you gotta go adjust to at least some.

[A]

But I also, I mean, I love. I am a foodie. I just have kids. You know what I'm saying? And so it's like, there's only so many places we can go when we have kids. Cause it's usually okay, where's me go? Italian place. Cause I know they have noodles.

[B]

And I took my kids to In N Out Burger here and I was like, all right, this is great. I love In N Out Burger. My kids are gonna love In N Out Burger. Like, this can be the connective tissue and our culinary relationship. And we get there and my three year old's like, can we go to McDonald's?

[A]

Yes. Oh my gosh, yes.

[B]

I was like, guys, why? Why are you doing this?

[A]

So my back in our small town hometown, right in front of the Walmart is a Chili's. And so you know how you grew up thinking certain places? Mine was Olive Garden. I thought it was like the fanciest of the fanciest. And so we were in the car in the Uber and we're trying to find a place and my son was like, I got an idea. Y' all want to go Chili's? He was like, that's like the top of the line. And we're like, if we see one. And so now if my daughter just raised a, she sees a Chili, like, so that's just kind of become like, also the McDonald's. It really is. We, we. We love it. We love it. I want to. This is why I also am really cool about these. And it's really cool when you come across somebody's work and it makes you go like, ah. I really want to just like redo everything I've ever done, you know, like you, you just kind of get that inspiration and things. So it's like this, this is just. I'm reading in the middle of something. It just goes, go back to your mission statement. What three strategies could you focus on right now? And then it's just like, like has all the spaces for it. And then it goes right into what might a strategic planning meeting look like for you? And just like you, it's banger after banger of who's going to be in charge of it, how you're going to do there, where you gather like the, the way that you have, you Talk about praise circles. What. How do you celebrate top performers? I'm going to use this myself. It's just super, super cool. And I could. This is the kind of stuff that, like, a nerd out about out secretly. I'm just like, this is so cool.

[B]

I think we're the same. When I recorded my audiobook for the first book, and then you remember doing this, right? You record it all and then you go away, and like a month later, you have to go back to do pickups.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

In the credits. And that's it. In the month between recording it and doing pickups in the credits, I listened to greenlights McConaughey's book on audio.

[A]

I haven't listened on audience to you, dude.

[B]

It's just a masterful audiobook performance. And I listened to that. I was like, gosh, I wish I'd listened to this before I did it. And so I went in to do the pickups. And he just does so many creative things and how he delivers the material. And I was like, I got to do something. And meanwhile, I had already started the practice of collecting observations when I was writing the book, and I didn't want it to stop. And so on my phone, there were just a bunch of new things that. That I had. Observations, ideas, insights, and the book was done. So we get to the end of doing all the pickups and the credits, and I said to the producer, I was like, hey, keep rolling. I want to add something after the credits. And he's like, well, you're not allowed to do that. And I was like, just keep rolling. And so I said, hey, to whoever makes the decision about whether or not there's allowed to be bonus material after the credits. This is important to me. And if you've read the book, you know what that means. My cell phone number is this. Call me if you want to have a conversation about it.

[A]

Oh, I love it.

[B]

And I just did this whole Easter egg, and basically I was like, hey, are you still there? Yeah, me too. And did this whole Easter egg at the end of the audiobook, and it was just inspired by listening to someone else's work, being jealous, wishing I could do it all over again, but saying, well, I can't, but I can at least do this.

[A]

But that comes too, from like, what's the takeaway is expose yourself to creativity. Like, expose yourself to. There's some people who go, you know, there's the downside of reading too many self help and whatever. And I agree, you can have too much if you're not Acting on it. But you have to expose yourself to different mediums, different. Like, there's a reason why the color world has a spectrum like that. You have to have spectrum in diversity in your life. Like, there would even in investments. Like, you don't want to just go with one thing. Like, it's.

[B]

Yeah, you always have.

[A]

Exactly. And so it's the same thing of. How do you. You. You hear that from Matthew McConaughey.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And you go, you know what? I'm going to add a little bit of spectrum. Yeah. And so. And that turns into something else. And then you have. Because you've written this book here you are doing stuff with the bear. You're like designing a stadium. You're doing like, we're doing lots of fun stuff, I'm telling you. And your wife's amazing. Like, so you're getting to.

[B]

But I mean, like, I think. I mean, you too. Like, the two of us were in a room yesterday with a bunch of really successful authors learning from other people. And gosh, I am pretty intent on never getting to a place where I don't pinch myself. And I find myself in these rooms because I'm just filled with gratitude for the experiences that I get to have and for the people I get to meet. It's pretty amazing.

[A]

The fact of just how we even kind of came into play is crazy. But that, that's. That has to do a lot with opening yourself to a lot of different colors in the. In the spectrum. So, man, thank you so much for sitting. Dude.

[B]

Thanks for having me talking with me.

[A]

This thing, the field guide, unreasonable hospitality field guide. You gotta get it. When does it come out?

[B]

It's April 28th.

[A]

It's gonna be a killer, man. As soon as I got it, I was like, doggone it, this is so good. For anybody wanting to add strategic planning to their teams and how to do it differently, it's just a step by step roadmap to elevating the magic in what you do with your business. Can't recommend it enough. Thanks, man, for sitting with me.

[B]

Thanks, brother.

[A]

Hi, brother.

[B]

Thank you.