The Jesus Podcast – “Transformation: Jesus & Saul Part 1”

Host: Zach (Pray.com)
Date: October 30, 2025
Episode Theme:
A riveting, dramatized retelling of Saul’s violent persecution of early Christians and an in-depth reflection on the radical transformation Jesus brings. This first part sets the stage for Saul’s (Paul’s) conversion by emphasizing his zeal, cruelty, inner struggle, and the unstoppable advance of the Gospel amidst suffering.

1. Opening Reflection: Grace for the Broken

[00:01]

• The episode begins with a prayer themed on mercy:

  “We thank you, Lord, that you do not hold our past sins against us... We are not defined by our mistakes or failures, but by what Christ has accomplished for us and what he will accomplish through us.”

• Introduction to the day’s story: Saul the persecutor and his soon-to-come transformation.

2. Dramatic Retelling: Saul, the Harbinger of Persecution

[02:07 – 05:25]

Key Event: Arrest and Interrogation of a Disciple

• Saul commands a raid on a Christian family’s home:
  • Angry, forceful commands—“Open up!” ([02:07])
  • A man comforts his terrified family as Saul drags him away.
• Inquisition scene:
  • Saul denounces the Christian:

    “You have been seen professing the blasphemy of the Nazarenes. I'm here to escort you to the hall of Congress Stones for questioning.” ([02:29])

  • The disciple boldly proclaims:

    “I'm not blaspheming against God, for I've witnessed and testified that Jesus is in fact the Messiah we've been waiting for.” ([03:16])

  • When Saul accuses Jesus of casting out demons by Satan, the disciple replies:

    “A house divided against itself cannot stand.” ([04:12])

  • The Sanhedrin condemns the man. Saul orders: “40 stripes!”—beatings as an instrument of fear. Children witness their fathers flogged.
• Saul’s relentless cycle:
  • “Find followers of Jesus. Drag them to court. Give them 40 lashes. Repeat. This had been Saul's ritual for months.” ([04:38])
• Personal enjoyment in persecution:
  • Saul’s zeal turns “sinister”—he begins to derive pleasure from inflicting pain.

3. Host Reflection: The False Paths of Self-Righteousness

[06:30]

• Zach addresses the source of righteousness:

  “Where does your sense of righteousness come from? ... When it comes to our spiritual life, there's only one way that leads to righteousness. Jesus is the only way.”

• Introduces the episode’s spiritual focus: “Part one of two that takes us through the life of Saul before he encounters Jesus.”

4. Escalation in Saul's Persecution

[07:08 – 09:40]

• Saul’s anger intensifies:
  • “Imprisonment is not enough... As the high priest said before, they must be killed.” ([07:08])
  • Direct quote justifying murder:

    “These filthy Nazarenes deserve to die for their crimes against God.” ([07:39])

  • When challenged about Roman law, Saul’s Roman citizenship becomes a means for more power.
• Tipping into brutality:
  • Targets families, publicly flogs, tortures Christians, drives many to renounce their faith.

    “Renounce Jesus and you will be spared.” ([09:40])

  • Weekly executions: “Saul was the grim reaper. Weekly the stone of execution was repainted with the blood of Jesus disciples.”

5. Unintended Consequences: The Gospel Spreads

[09:44 – 12:33]

• Persecution fuels the movement’s spread:
  • Fleeing disciples carry Jesus’ story to Samaria, Asia Minor, and beyond.
  • “Persecution was like the wind to a wildfire for Jesus’s message—the more violent the persecution, the stronger the Nazarenes became.”
• Relentless campaign:
  • Saul seeks to expand his reach:

    “The synagogues of the north are being corrupted by this message of Jesus and if we don’t stop it soon, we’ll lose all influence in the more influential trade cities.” ([12:01])

  • Maps strategic expansion: begins with Damascus, receiving written authority for capture or execution.

6. Saul’s Ambition Meets God’s Plan

[13:02 – 14:01]

• The high priest gives Saul a mandate:

  “You are our man... They will be your license to capture the Nazarenes or kill them if necessary.” ([13:29])

• Prophetic narrative:

  “This will mark the end of Jesus and the people of the way.” ([13:54])

  • Narrator’s transition: “They were painfully wrong. Saul thought he was pursuing Jesus, but Jesus was pursuing him.” ([14:01])

7. Spiritual Reflection: The Nature of True Transformation

[14:15 – End]

• Zach’s core insights:
  • Paul’s zeal and religiosity were “bringing him further from God, not closer.”
  • Early church grew rapidly because of persecution—Jesus’ gospel is unstoppable.
  • “What Paul thought was a mission to eradicate the sinful Nazarenes was actually part of Jesus’ plan to eradicate the sin and pride in Saul’s heart.”
• The radical change in Saul/Paul:
  • Once proud and cruel, Paul becomes famed for humility and selflessness.
  • Direct quote, highlighting the change (Philippians 2):

    “Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. Rather, in humility, value others above yourselves, not looking to your own interests, but each of you to the interests of others.”

• God’s redirection of Saul’s gifts:
  • The same intellect and spirit used to persecute the church would “build it up.”
  • “All the gifts, all the potential, are right there in people. They just need a change in motivation. They need a change in heart.”
• Grace for the outcast:
  • “There is no one too far deep in sin who cannot be pulled out and rescued by Jesus.”
  • Preview of next episode: Saul’s radical conversion.

8. Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “You have been seen professing the blasphemy of the Nazarenes. I’m here to escort you...” (Saul/Paul, [02:29])
• “A house divided against itself cannot stand.” (Disciple, [04:12])
• “Find followers of Jesus. Drag them to court. Give them 40 lashes. Repeat. This had been Saul’s ritual for months.” (Narrator, [04:38])
• “Saul was the grim reaper. Weekly the stone of execution was repainted with the blood of Jesus disciples.” (Narrator, [09:40])
• “They were painfully wrong. Saul thought he was pursuing Jesus, but Jesus was pursuing him.” (Narrator, [14:01])
• “There is no one too far deep in sin who cannot be pulled out and rescued by Jesus.” (Host Zach, [End])

9. Timestamps for Key Segments

• [00:01] – Opening prayer and introduction of Saul as persecutor
• [02:07] – Saul’s raid on Christian home and brutal interrogation
• [03:16] – Disciple’s testimony and “A house divided…” quote
• [04:38] – Saul’s cycle of persecution
• [06:30] – Host Zach’s first reflection
• [07:08] – Saul pushes for executions
• [12:01] – Saul’s plan to expand persecution to Damascus
• [13:54] – High priest: “This will mark the end of Jesus and the people of the way.”
• [14:01] – “They were painfully wrong… Jesus was pursuing him.”
• [14:15–End] – Spiritual reflection on Saul’s transformation and God’s grace

Summary

This episode blends intense drama with theological reflection to lay bare Saul’s early violence, self-righteous zeal, and the stealthy working of grace preparing for his transformation. The story starkly contrasts Saul’s merciless pursuit of Christians with the unstoppable, ever-growing movement catalyzed by persecution. With cinematic storytelling and clear scriptural reference, the host leads listeners to ponder the power of transformation—no one is ever too far gone for Jesus. The episode closes by inviting listeners to stay tuned for Saul’s conversion and the hope of redemption for every outcast.