← The Jim Acosta Show
The Jim Acosta Show
BREAKING NEW EPSTEIN EMAILS RELEASED WITH ATTY DAVE ARONBERG AND STEPHANIE RUHLE
00:59:56
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- [00:00]
A
All right, welcome everybody to the Jim Acosta show. It's another day that ends in Y. In Epstein Gate, new documents are emerging in the scandal that has engulfed Donald Trump's presidency. My big guest this hour is MSNBC and soon to be Ms. Now anchor Stephanie Rule, who hosts the 11th Hour with Stephanie Rule. Stephanie, it's great to see you. Thank you so much for doing this.
- [00:21]
B
Thank you for having me.
- [00:23]
A
And we appreciate it so much. And you know, my attitude is like, let's just jump right into it, you know, and this Epstein stuff, I'm sure you guys were dealing with, I mean, I, I remember doing late night anchoring duties and like the, the news would pop at like 8 in the morning and then you're, you're waking up to it, you're like, what the heck is going on? And then you're just scrambling with that all day long and then you're presenting the story to your viewers at 11:00 last night. Stephanie, what jumped out at you as the, the most significant thing that we saw yesterday? I mean, to me it was, we saw it in black and white, this confirmation that there's, there's a there there. But your thoughts.
- [01:03]
B
So that's it. So, so the message that we're getting from this administration over and over is nothing to see here, but we're not going to let you look at it. Nothing to see here, but we're not going to let you look at it. And then in dribs and drabs, there is something to see there. And the extraordinary thing to me about the Epstein files is the heart of why people care about it is almost what created MAGA to begin with. When you think of the sort of MAGA origin story, it was people who felt like we had a two tiered justice system. We had a K shaped economy that worked for the rich and didn't for the poor. We had tax breaks for the rich, we had a system for the wealthy and not for everyone else. And it's what Donald Trump ran on, right? He ran against the elites and the elite class and said, despite my upbringing, I'm the man of the people. And he did his tour around the country to places where politicians hadn't been in years, where businesses had gone away from 50 years ago. And the Epstein story is exactly that, right? Not just Donald Trump, but a wild circle of huge, hugely powerful people in business, politics, media, surrounding a deeply corrupt criminal who got sweetheart deal after sweetheart deal mysteriously dies in prison. And now you have all these people that are currently part of this administration who spent years in the right wing podcast universe, you know, some who even originated in the Pizzagate space and said, this is everything. We are going to get these documents, the famed Epstein files. And then he wins. And now, what a colossal mess. And it's just, I actually thought, Jim, that there was a chance, you know, it was end the shutdown, end the shutdown. And I thought, is Trump definitely going to sign off on this? Because Epstein files are going to come front and center. You will remember this as well as I do in the last administration. I'm sure you experienced this when there would be Charlottesville or some other ridiculous, terrible thing that happened and you'd be pushing the White House for what are.
- [03:09]
C
You going to do?
- [03:10]
B
In the comments? And they were like, don't worry about it, the story will pass. You know, tomorrow there'll be a new country, right?
- [03:16]
A
That's right.
- [03:17]
B
Most part, in Trump 1.0, they could wait out the news cycle and the story would move on. You can't wait out this news cycle, not with Marjorie Taylor Greene standing next to Thomas Massie standing next to Ro Khanna saying, show me the.
- [03:32]
A
Exactly. That's it. And I think that that's, you're hitting the nail right on the head. I mean, to me, it's a story that they can't control. And when you're the White House, a story that you can control in terms of what documents come out or emails that come out, that is your worst nightmare. And I mean, I mean, some of the latest documents to emerge, I guess what happened yesterday is the Democrats put out theirs. And so the Republicans who control the Oversight Committee said, okay, while we're just going to put out 20,000 documents and there's one we can show on screen, which to me, yes, this is, I mean, this is, this is a huge deal, folks. We should show the one, if we can, about Dirty Donald. This is Jeffrey Epstein sending an email to Kathy Rummler, who was the White House counsel, then went into private practice and then defended Jeffrey Epstein. You see, I know how Dirty Donald is. My guess is that non lawyers, New York business people have no idea what it means to have your fixer flip. They were having a conversation, I guess, about Michael Cohen. That whole thing played out back in 2018.
- [04:30]
B
But to have an email, Republicans released that.
- [04:34]
A
The Republicans released that. And I was, I was texting with somebody close to this process earlier today and I was saying, wait, why did the Republicans release this? I guess they wanted to say, look, you guys cherry picked all this stuff. So here's all this, here's the rest of it. And then the rest of it had stuff in there that you would think.
- [04:52]
B
Did, did they not do their homework and read.
- [04:58]
A
I spent a big part of the day stuff, going through these myself because I thought, I don't want to pluck them off the Internet, I want to pluck them from the Oversight Committee. Right. So I have the authentic thing because everything with deep fakes and all this other crazy, but this one right here is something that they put the Republicans put out.
- [05:15]
B
But that's why, Jim, you say deep fakes. The problem for Trump, and I'm not just going to say Trump, because again, we don't know the scope of leaders whose names are going to end up in here. It's Trump and a whole lot of other people. Right. It is not dedicated to Republican leaders, let's be clear. But, but this isn't one where they're like, this will go away tomorrow. Because I mentioned you have all these political leaders demanding it. You have voters demanding it. And Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell, victims are angry and they're speaking publicly. And the fact that while you and I are having this conversation right now, Ghislaine Maxwell is currently in a minimum security prison in Texas where today, while you were picking through these emails, she was possibly playing golf or getting her own private time in the gym or getting her meal delivered to her and.
- [06:10]
A
She'S got a puppy, apparently, or she.
- [06:12]
B
Wanted a puppy whistleblower that she is working on trying to get her sentence commuted. This is a woman, and I want to be sure I have it correctly, who was convicted of working to facilitate sex trafficking.
- [06:26]
A
Right, Exactly. I know.
- [06:28]
B
I just don't see how this is a story, this isn't a story that, that if Democrats would have released these emails last October, do I think it would have changed the outcome of the election? I don't think it would have. But this problem is not going away. And it's a problem for Trump, it's a problem for Cash Patel, it's a problem for Pam Bondi. Take your pick.
- [06:49]
A
And it looks bad on multiple levels. I mean, George Conway and Todd Blanche were getting into it on X earlier. I don't know if you saw this, but, you know, Todd Blanche, I guess saw something that George didn't like and went off on George. But George was making the point. This interview that Todd Blanche did with Ghislaine Maxwell was ridiculous. It was not like leading the witness. It was, as I called it, I think yesterday, it was romancing the witness. It was just a joke.
- [07:14]
B
It's like he was French braiding her hair while they were chit chatting and.
- [07:18]
A
I still doing time together.
- [07:19]
B
I still don't know, you know, when they say, here's the transcript from that interview.
- [07:23]
A
Yeah.
- [07:23]
B
You firmly believe that was all the communicating that took place? I'm not quite so sure about that.
- [07:29]
A
Yeah. And you know, and of course, we have to note, as I noted yesterday, the White House says Trump did nothing wrong and Trump says he did nothing wrong and all of that stuff.
- [07:39]
B
I mean, by the way, neither of us are saying that he did.
- [07:42]
A
Yeah.
- [07:42]
B
But one of the things the American people want so much from, from, from leadership in government and is transparency.
- [07:50]
A
Exactly.
- [07:51]
B
No one is saying, we know you did, you did something dirty. It's simply saying, please show us these files. We want to understand.
- [08:00]
A
It's just not. But if Jeffrey Epstein is saying, I know how dirty Donald is, you know, I mean, that's, that ain't good. It's, it's not good.
- [08:10]
B
When you think about. I keep thinking about that birthday book that the Wall Street Journal reported on.
- [08:16]
A
Yeah.
- [08:16]
C
Of course.
- [08:17]
B
Ten weeks ago. And I'll just say this. If someone were to make a birthday book for you, Jim Acosta, and it was your oldest, dearest friends, that birthday book would be filled with inside jokes about all the dumb, silly, ridiculous things that you did. And maybe there'd be stuff about girls or you cracking beer cans on your head or streaking the quad. I don't know what it would be.
- [08:37]
A
But have you seen my birthday book? That must be.
- [08:40]
B
I've clearly, I've seen your birthday book.
- [08:42]
A
But I know, and here's the one from.
- [08:44]
B
I know the scope of the inside jokes in that birthday book about you would be about 30 different topics. And I'm sure all 30 would be silly and embarrassing and dumb, but all 30 wouldn't be about how much you love getting after it with hot, sexy young things. Okay. When all 50 pages are about that one subject from leader after leader. And remember when that came out in the Wall Street Journal, Trump sued the Wall Street Journal, I think, for $15 million, and personally sued those reporters. Now, that's right before they reported this. I am sure every lawyer that the Wall Street Journal has ever walked by went through this reporting with a fine tooth comb, knowing the wrath they would face until they chose to report it. And even though Trump claimed he was suing them, I haven't heard anything about it since. So I wonder how far they're going to take this. Or was it this threat that they're going to sue them. And then what that does is, you know, the, the likes of, of the true Trump apologist, no matter what it justifies them to say, that was just fake news. He's suing them, he's going to take them down. Because I always got anything about it.
- [09:58]
A
Since, yeah, he's always got to give his base something to talk about. The sycophants and the apologists and his propaganda is something to talk about. But I mean, you know, we're showing his thing in the, in the birthday book. And remember, the White House said, that's not his signature. Then people said, oh no, here's a signature matching up with other signatures that appeared in the past and so on. And the thing that grabbed at me yesterday, Steph, and I do want to move on to other things, business stuff, because that's your, your real specialty is, you know, there was this email Yesterday from, from 2011, from April of 2011, calling, you know, Epstein saying that Trump is the dog that hasn't barked. And Ghislaine Maxwell saying, I've been thinking about that. I mean, this is 2011. This is before he got into politics. This is, I mean, he was in politics.
- [10:44]
B
Emails with Epstein talking to Russia.
- [10:47]
A
Talking to Russia. That's, that's another one. I, I was gonna, I, you know, there was, that was another thing I was gonna bring up. Politico was reporting that today, nearly a month before Trump met with Vladimir Putin and Helsinki in 2018, Jeffrey Epstein attempted to pass a message to Russia's top diplomat saying, if you want to understand Trump, talk to me. Quote, I think you might suggest to Putin that Lavrov can get insight on talking to me. And he said this to the former Prime Minister of Norway.
- [11:15]
B
I mean, so, Jim, right now, this is, take your pick. What topic does Donald Trump not want to talk about? FC number one, affordability, number two. You know, last night at the White House, the president hosted a dinner with, you know, Wall street leaders. J.P. morgan, what did you think of that? Jamie Dimon, Very big people from the private equity industry, Mark Rowan, Steve Schwartzman, and I spoke to people close to attendees who had said, we're not really sure what the dinner is going to be about, but when the president says come over for dinner, they're going to show up. And more than one source said to me, you. Yeah, we're expecting a press pool, you know, around 7:15.
- [11:54]
A
Right.
- [11:54]
B
And, you know, I raced home so I could see it. And when I'd spoken to some folks whose CEOs were going to be at the dinner. They said, of course Trump is going to do that dinner. Right. Jamie Dimon has always been Steve Schwartzman, too, but Jamie Dimon has always been the behemoth CEO in the banking universe who's the most beloved sort of alpha male. And Trump beckons him down to D.C. you know, JP Morgan is one of the companies that did not write a check for the East Wing Ballroom. Their position has been, if we write a check today, in three years, we're going to be called corrupt for writing that check.
- [12:31]
A
That's right. And they will.
- [12:32]
B
All of us who cover them are like, Trump's definitely going to come out. They're bringing the cameras into the room. He's, he loves that tech dinner where he was sitting with Mark Zuckerberg next to him and across the way. He loves that visual of all of those titans of industry around him saying, when did you get great at being great? And last night, no cameras, no press, no questions. Very much out of character.
- [12:58]
A
Very out of character. No Dear Leader moment, no golden offerings that were presented in front of the cameras. And I believe Caroline Levitt had said, oh, no, you guys are going to be able to see this to the press. And they didn't do it. We got to talk about business stuff because, Stephanie, whenever you're on Morning Joe and you come on, you start talking about business World. That's when I, I shouldn't say I unmute the TV because I listen to everything. But when you really come, when you come on, I really unmute, I hit it over and over again. But, I mean, I have to play this thing that Kevin Hassett said earlier today. I guess because of the government shutdown, we may not get full unemployment data the next time they do this. Let's play this and then we'll talk about on the other side.
- [13:36]
D
Sold survey wasn't conducted in October. So we're going to get half the employment report. We'll get the jobs part, but we won't get the unemployment rate. And that'll just be for one month. But, yeah, it is true that we probably will, will never will maybe be able to concoct something that we'll never actually know for sure what the unemployment rate was in October.
- [13:54]
A
There's an unfortunate statement when you say.
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B
Brother, please, we may data. So you do everything possible so the American people can't see the data. But here's the thing, Jim.
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A
Yeah.
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B
You can bullshit the American people on things that they can't see and can't touch. You can tell my mother in Park Ridge, New Jersey, that a caravan of violent criminals is making their way up through Central America here to steal our jobs and eat our dogs and kill everyone. And Louise Rule is going to believe you because she doesn't live in Southern Texas. You can lie to her about what's happening in Venezuela, you can lie to her about. About what's happening in Ukraine, but you cannot lie to my mother about the price of London broil. You cannot bullshit her with this. You cannot bullshit her with this. Look, Walmart's Thanksgiving dinner this year is cheaper than it was last year because Louise is going to be able to tell you, well, last year, Walmart's Thanksgiving dinner had 14 items in it, and this year it has nine. And last year when I bought my Thanksgiving dinner at Walmart, it was all name brands, and. And now it's generic. So be careful who you're bsing, because this is actually the trouble that the Biden White House got itself in. Right. House was the data. Right. The Biden White House actually took all the data. And if you looked at only the data, you could say the economy is doing really well. We've had the best economic recovery coming out of COVID This is any other developed country. In print, in data that was factually correct. However, people still felt terrible. Inflation had a really big impact on people. And when you tell Louise Rule, well, Louise, things are way better in New Jersey than they are in the economy in Portugal. She's going to say, what the hell do I care about the economy in Portugal? I don't live there. Why do my sandwiches cost $22? So the Biden administration think your mom's.
- [15:57]
A
Related to my mom in some way? Yeah.
- [16:00]
B
So the Biden administration was so tied to data, they weren't feeling the American people. And the Trump administration doesn't want to look at the data because the data isn't good. So instead, they're lying to the American. Scott Benson, the Treasury Secretary, just said it the other day, the economy is very good. And anyone who tells you otherwise, it's a con job. A con job.
- [16:24]
A
That's right.
- [16:25]
B
The next time you go out to dinner with your children, what the bill is, and you're going to, at the end of the meal, you're going to say, I didn't have a good enough time with you guys to take you out again.
- [16:33]
A
It's a great point. And Trump was saying the other day, I don't want to hear about affordability. And they're trying to push him on this affordability thing, and he doesn't Want to talk about it. So he, I mean, he doesn't want to hear the subject. And these Obamacare premiums are about to skyrocket. I mean, there's a, there's a bill coming due and these guys are in this. I mean, Trump's put gold everywhere in the White House. And it's kind of, I saw the Laura Ingrid thing. It's a, it's nutty. It's nutty stuff is attached.
- [17:02]
B
Of course I'm going to say this because I cover the economy.
- [17:05]
A
Yeah.
- [17:05]
B
I deeply believe every election is about affordability. Donald Trump rose to power in 2016, yes, over cultural issues. But the real issue for those forgotten Americans was not about pronouns and this and that. It was about Americans who, who felt economically forgotten, who lived in parts of the country where they no longer had bowling alleys and movie theaters or jobs. So it was it.
- [17:31]
A
And he dressed up as the trash truck guy and he, he dressed up as the McDonald's guy.
- [17:36]
B
His first win was the first time we saw union members vote against their union leaders because they said, I'm tired of voting for the party while my life is getting worse. Trump won on the economy then Joe Biden won on the economy coming out of the COVID economy and then Trump won again because people were struggling. So Trump saying, I don't want to talk about affordability. It's not just having his priorities wrong. To me it says this man does not need to run again. Republicans need to. And what is he actually doing policy wise? In the last few weeks, they're quietly giving more tax breaks to the private equity industry that already gets the swan dive through the carried interest loophole to the crypto industry that, that has made Donald Trump a multi billionaire. Just this week they are looking to get rid of portions of your ability to file your taxes for free online. Okay. We have dysfunction free filing. I've actually done segments on it for the Today show for years. So for people who either can't afford to don't want pay for H and R block or turbo tax, the government website now has it so easy and simple. You do it for free, you do it electronically and you get your refund quicker. They're trying to take that away. You know that's going to serve the lobbying efforts of those tax preparing companies.
- [18:58]
A
That's right.
- [18:59]
B
President isn't just not talking about affordability. He is now serving the highest of the highest establishment who never supported him in the beginning and he's hurting his core base.
- [19:10]
A
And what does it say to you, Stephanie, that they're they're floating this idea. Bill Pulte is who's this comes across like this nefarious figure in the Trump administration. He seems to be way out over his skis. He's recommending that Eric Swalwell be indicted. And so but he's the one who's floating this idea of the 50 year mortgage, which to me that smells of desperation that it sounds like you're so freaked out about the numbers and what's happening with the economy that you want you now you want to offer people 50 year mortgages which is an the Wall Street Journal said this is a bad idea.
- [19:42]
B
For me, it's starting like it's giving me ptsd. Are these the baby steps we're going to start to take to get us to the next subprime crisis? And the problem with the 50 year mortgage is it reminds me of, you know, when the subprime mortgage thing happened. It was, you know, I didn't think I was going to be able to buy a home. And suddenly this mortgage broker pulls up to my house in a Buick Skylark and walks in and shows me the numbers and my monthly payments are so low I can't afford that million dol. Right, except you couldn't. And so now here we are. Yes, your monthly payments would be lower because they're spread out for a longer period of time, but you're going to end up paying double the interest right now. And I'm sad to say this, the average age for a first time homebuyer is 40, which means you're not going to be done paying off this mortgage until you're 90. In a country where the average life expectancy is is 79. So if your kids are wondering who's going to get mom and dad's house eventually when they die, well, get ready. When they get it, they're going to be hit with a giant mortgage that still has to get paid off.
- [20:48]
A
You're going to get grandpa's mortgage, you know, and, and to me the question is like why not a 75, 5 year mortgage? Why not 100 year mortgage? You know, why not?
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B
I mean, and the one other problem involves the tariffs. One of the biggest problems we have is a supply problem. We do not have enough housing supply. So in theory we're going to have the 50 year mortgage. So all these new people are going to say I can afford a house. So they're going to enter a market but there's no new supply. So prices are going to go up and they're already high because of the tariffs, home building supplies, the price of them are up.
- [21:22]
A
But isn't there another aspect of this and that Bill Pulte comes from the pt family homes, the home building industry. So what it says to me is that Bill Pulte is just sort of representing his industry. And let's see if we can get Grandpa POTUS to sign on to something that would be a windfall to our industry. And maybe he's half paying attention, but we can get it past the old guy.
- [21:44]
B
So forever throughout history, when you would have treasury secretaries or Fed chairs that came from the banking industry, lots of people, lots of progressives would get angry and they would call, you know, Goldman Sachs, they would say, government Sachs. They didn't like to see the likes of Hank Paulson and others and they thought it was bs. I would argue the reverse. Or for example, Gary Gensler. People would say, I don't want to have Gary Gensler in the position that he's in. People didn't like Gary Gensler in his position because that was like having Meadow Soprano become the chief of police. I don't think it's a problem with when people who come from the industry, who are industry experts join the government because they truly understand how it operates. The problem is when you join the government and you're still working a side hustle.
- [22:37]
A
Yeah.
- [22:37]
B
Howard Lutnick left Cantor Fitzgerald as the CEO of Canter Fitzgerald. When he left, tons of big executives in the company were figuring out who's going to take over the company now that Howard's leaving. Well, forget it, guys. His two sons, who had nothing to do with the business are now running the company while their dad every day meets with different CEOs to figure out what's going to happen with the tariffs, who's going to get an exemption. Like to me, if you came from the business industry, if you're a wealthy person, that doesn't mean, that doesn't preclude you from working in the government. But you seriously need to, to lock it down and separate things. What we have now is crazy town.
- [23:21]
A
It's crazy town. It's no, there's no question. It's crazy town. And I appreciate you sorting it out through us and being that cop on the beat. Jersey style cop on the beat. Stephanie Rule, I, I, I swore to your people that I wouldn't take up too much of your time. And then I went over and I feel like I probably left five things I wanted to ask you about on the, on the cutting back. Well, I can always have you back and we have to remind people, November 15th, this Saturday, MSNBC becomes Ms. Now. And I know st. Stephanie is going to be talking about that all next week because you'll have a little new bug at the bottom of this, the screen there on your show.
- [23:55]
B
We will have a new bug, but the most important thing that needs to happen is news. And I assure you there's going to be a lot of news and we're going to be here to cover it.
- [24:03]
A
A lot of news. It's not stopping, that's for sure. It's like a fire hose. All right. Hey, Steph, thank you so much. Really appreciate it. Thank you for having me. Wonderful being, having this afternoon with you. Thanks so much. Appreciate it. My dog, little dog Duke is jumping in here. Hey, Duke, how you doing? But I know, I know, it's. We're, we're doing one of those shows again. That was the great Stephanie Rule. She was wonderful. Make sure you tune into her show when MSNBC becomes Ms. Now. All right, let's quickly switch gears. Let's go to Dave Aronberg, our friend and legal analyst. There's Dave, as always. Great to see you. How are you? Oh, you're on mute. You might be on mute there. Dave, do we got you now? Oh, let's try it again. How about now? Dave, are you there? No, we can't hear you. Hang on. That's okay. It's, it's a live show, but that's okay. This is what makes it fun. Duke, what are you doing? Duke? Now Duke is barking. Oh, boy. No, we can't hear you, Dave. I think he's saying he's going to X out and he's going to come back in. That's okay. The thing that I love about Steph Rule is that, I mean, she brings that Jersey style frankness to the discussion, which is exactly what you need in this moment. I mean, I, you know, I was, I was going to get into all this other stuff with, about Bill Pulte and so on, but she, she, you know, took the subject and ran with it. But I mean, it was just reported this afternoon and I. We'll get Dave going here and I'll. When we get Dave and we'll, we'll go to it. Oh, is Dave with us now? How about. How about now? Dave, you there now? No, I can't hear you, man.
- [25:53]
C
Now. You can hear me now.
- [25:54]
A
All right, there it is. Dave. Good to see you.
- [25:58]
C
It's great to be back with you, Jim. That was a great interview with Stephanie.
- [26:00]
A
She's so Fun. She's. And we were talking about Bill Pulte and I. I mean, just, we, we should mention this only because I, I had Eric Swalwell on my show yesterday, and to me, this is yet another sign of. And it's not just to me. I mean, it's to anybody with a brain. This is Donald Trump once again going after people. They want to go after people in the opposition and so on. But apparently Bill Pulte, the director of the Federal Housing Finance Agency, said in a letter to Attorney General Pam Bondi that Swalwell may have made false or misleading statements in his loan documents. This is the fourth Democratic official to face mortgage fraud allegations in recent months. They, of course, have been going after Letitia James and, you know, James Comey, obviously, on other issues. But, Dave, I mean, this is, again, it just comes across our judicial system in this country, and I want to get into Epstein and everything else, but our judicial system in our country is just so totally warped. The President of the United States, the administrator now, I mean, it doesn't even, it, it looks like they're just weaponizing the Justice Department and trying to go after people that they want to go after.
- [27:13]
C
Jim, normally vindictive prosecution is very tough to prove. There's a very high bar and it rarely works.
- [27:20]
A
Yeah.
- [27:20]
C
But if it does not work in this situation for Letitia James and Eric Swalwell and James Comey and even for, for John Bolton, although we can talk about that separately.
- [27:33]
A
Yeah.
- [27:33]
C
Then it doesn't exist at all. This is the, the prototype of vindictive prosecution. This is what the doctrine is made for. This is why judges have the power to throw things out. It is an injustice for the top politician in the United States to be able to choose his enemies to be prosecuted and ignore the same conduct that goes on all the time for his allies, while vindictively, in his own words, really saying, I hate this person. This person needs to be arrested. So that is so antithetical to our criminal justice system, our way of life as Americans, that judges must put a stop to it. I think that they will. I don't think any of these cases, with the exception perhaps of Bolton, will get to a jury. And right now, Trump and Pulte and Maga, they're getting these short term wins. They're getting to see these folks have to raise money and get process and fingerprinted. But when these cases, not if, when these cases are dismissed, they're going to have a lot of egg on their faces.
- [28:35]
A
Yeah, there's no question about it. And I mean, I mean, let's dive into the topic that everybody's been talking about over the last 24 hours, more than that is Jeffrey Epstein. And Dave, these emails, these documents that have emerged, I mean, it's, it takes your breath away. The documents that the Democrats first put out yesterday morning, Wednesday morning, were pretty staggering. I mean, there's the, there's the April 2011 email we're showing it right now, where Jeffrey Epstein says to Ghislaine Maxwell that Trump is the dog that hasn't barked and that he had spent hours at his house with one of the victims. And Ghislaine Maxwell replies to that by saying, yeah, I've been thinking about that. I mean, that is bad as it, as bad as that is. There's, there's, there's a lot more to it. And the Republicans on the committee who control that committee, I guess they got so fired up, they decided to just UNLEASH, you know, 20,000 documents and emails and so on and what. And I don't know if they meant to do this or this was inadvertent on their part, but one of the emails that they, they released, the Republicans released, is one of them is from Jeffrey Epstein to his lawyer Kathy Rumler, saying, I know how dirty Donald is. And I mean, it's just, it's. And this is in 2018, you know, when Trump is president. The first time. Your thoughts on all this, Dave?
- [29:59]
C
Well, that email, the first one you mentioned about Trump is the dog that did not bark. That came out in 2011. That was.
- [30:08]
A
Right, right.
- [30:09]
C
Well, before he was running for president. That.
- [30:12]
A
Exactly.
- [30:13]
C
That shows, like, why lie then? Like, people say, well, he wanted to lie because Trump was president. He wasn't president. He wasn't even a credible candidate for president then. So that's why you have to say, like, why would he write that now, in the emails, the Republicans have one argument which is truthful, which is there's nothing from a legal standpoint that indicates any criminal conduct by Donald Trump. That's true. That's true. But there's a lot of smoke there. And it does raise legitimate questions about how much Trump knew about Epstein's criminal activities. Remember, Epstein wrote in one of the emails that Trump spent hours at his house with one of the victims. The Republicans then said, well, it was Virginia Giuffre. It was redacted. Well, we're not sure. We don't know if that was Virginia Giuffre, and if it was Virginia, we don't know.
- [31:04]
A
We don't know that's right. I was. You know, I'm so glad you made that point because this has been on my mind too. Is that, you know, first of all, how disgusting is it that they're. Well, we're just gonna put the name out there. It's Virginia Giuffre, and let's say it is her name that's been redacted in that email. We're talking about an email conversation that went on 14 years ago. It is. Isn't it quite possible that, I mean, Maxwell and Epstein had lots of underage girls who were involved in all of this at that point, they're, they're mixing up the names. I mean, you just don't know. I mean, it just like, why would Donald Trump be spending hours at his house to begin with?
- [31:45]
C
Well, you know, this is where it gets back to their friendship. And Trump is trying to gaslight us by saying this is a Democratic hoax when he was good friends with Epstein and then they did have a falling out. And instead of Trump acknowledging that and saying, you know, radical transparency, just unleash the files, he is twisting arms to, to an extent that is surprising even to me to take Lauren Boebert into the Situation Room and said, you can't vote to release the files. Well, like, Trump may not be guilty of anything, but he's sure acting guilty.
- [32:19]
A
Right.
- [32:19]
C
It's not the crime, it's a cover up. It's making us wonder, what's this about? Why are you protesting too much? And then there are other emails that showed that he said Epstein said he knew Trump. Of course he knew about the girls. Now what does that mean? That needs to be fleshed out some more. We don't know. But all this stuff, the arm twisting, the emails. Now you see, when Trump is saying, don't release the files, it looks less like a political calculation and, and more like a cover up.
- [32:49]
A
Yeah. And the New York Times reported this. As Mr. Trump's presidential campaign gained traction in December 2015, Epstein asked Landon Thomas Jr. Then a new York Times reporter, quote, would you like to see photos of Donald and girls in bikinis in my kitchen? It is unclear whether Epstein actually possessed such photos. Thomas, who has not worked at the times since 2019, said Epstein never provided them. Epstein also told him about a time when he said Trump was so focused, quote, so focused on watching young women in a swimming pool that he bumped into a door, leaving his nose print on the glass. And so, you know, this is, you know, one of the things that the White House has said repeatedly. And Caroline Levitt I believe she said it at the briefing on Wednesday was, oh, well, you know, he kicked him out of Mar A Lago because he thought he was a creep. The emails do not indicate that Donald Trump thought Jeffrey Epstein was a creep.
- [33:47]
C
Well, there's the timeline, and that's where it gets confusing.
- [33:51]
A
Yeah.
- [33:52]
C
Because it could be true that at some point there, Trump was told, and the story goes down here in Palm beach that there was a member of Mar A Lago who complained to Trump that Epstein was creeping on his underage daughter. And then Trump banned Epstein. Epstein says that's not true. I was never a member of Mar A Lago. No, that's, that's not the story. The story is that you were banned. You can go to Mar A Lago without being a member. But then he was banned. Then there was a story that. No, it wasn't about that. It was about a property dispute. I don't know the details, but I've heard both stories. And that's where Trump should come out and just say he was a creep. I ended it. And then the key part is release the documents. As long as these documents are kept secret, this story ain't going away. It's only going to get worse. And you know, it's funny, Jim, the email that you read about Trump's nose being on the glass door, that wasn't provided by the Democrats, that was provided by the Republicans.
- [34:44]
A
Right, exactly. You know, I don't know.
- [34:48]
C
I was, I was thinking about this. There's. When you're a lawyer, you can provide documents. You can try to withhold them under certain rules, or you can give them everything. You can love it too much. Like, it's like when you love legislation too much. Put 300 more pages of legislation in there and just bury the bill under its own weight. Well, same thing. As a lawyer, you can just say, we're going to give you the whole trove and good luck finding needles and haystacks. Well, it didn't take long for the media to find needles and haystacks. And I think another part of it is I don't think the politicians on the committee, the Republicans read through the 20, 30,000 pages. So when they submitted these documents, they didn't know what was in it.
- [35:27]
A
Yeah, I think the, the likely scenarios, incompetence, explains why they released all that stuff. But thank, thank you very much for doing that. I appreciate it. And there's a Thanksgiving one, too. There's a, an email that references Thanksgiving, not that one. I think maybe that's. That's the April 2011 one. Well, anyway, if we pop it up on screen, I can read it to you, but it just, what it shows is there's, I think this was about Trump and Epstein maybe spending Thanksgiving together. We can find that one. We can show. But the familiarity between these two men. And, you know, Donald Trump has tried and tried and tried to make it sound as though, you know, this is just some guy is some creep he kicked out of his club, and it's just the lies don't work. And Robert Garcia, the ranking member on the House Oversight Committee, was saying to me and other folks, you know, there's more to come. There's more coming. And Dave, isn't it the case that we're not. What was. Even though even that large tranche of documents that came from the House Oversight committee, Republicans like 20,000 documents and email. I was going through them today, and it's, it's nuts. There's all kinds of stuff in there. That's, that's not even the full thing. There's, there apparently is video, there's pictures.
- [36:42]
C
Well, that's why Trump's working so hard to keep it secret. I mean, it must be something else in there that's really bad. And it, I, I just, this was such an unforced error that now, you know, we, we're all waiting with bated breath of, step by step, drip by drip of what's coming out. It didn't have to be like this. And now he's put his own members in a tough position. They're going to have to vote to release the files. When that goes to the floor of the House, those members are gonna have to go back home and explain to their constituents why they tried to protect Jeffrey Epstein.
- [37:16]
A
Right.
- [37:18]
C
That is not a good vote to take if you want to vote to prevent the public from looking at the Epstein file.
- [37:26]
A
Yeah, and here's that Thanksgiving one. You know, it says here, let's see here. Hope today is fun for you. Fun. When are you back in nyc? All next week. And then this goes back and forth between Jeffrey Epstein and somebody named Faith Cates. I don't know who that is, but it says, okay, Dylan will want to see you. I always want to see you. Where are you having Thanksgiving? Faith asks Eva Epstein says that means Glenn. Check on his record. I don't know what that means, but this goes on and on and on. He's such a snooze. Who else is down there? And it says David, David Faisal Hansen, and then Trump. And so now what it appears to say here, and I can't say it conclusively says that because, I mean, as you, Dave, you're an attorney, you probably would want to read this email to somebody and ask, what does this mean? Does this mean that Trump was having Thanksgiving with Jeffrey Epstein when you were that 20? It says November 2017. This is after he is president.
- [38:32]
C
See, See? What to me is that I, I will give some of these folks a pass. If they were hanging out with Epstein before, he was a registered sex offender. Once he was charged and convicted of crimes and had to register as a level three sex offender, the highest designation in New York and Florida, then why are you still friends with this guy? Why are we hanging out with this guy? Right. That was 2008. So I'm not giving anyone a pass that. And this was supposed to be a Democratic conspiracy. Right? That's why the Marjorie Taylor Greens of the world were like, begging to release the files. Well, what we also found from the emails were that Bill Clinton never went to Epstein island, but yet there are emails, correspondence between Epstein and Steve Bannon, one of the folks who was like, release the files. This is a Democratic conspiracy.
- [39:21]
A
Bannon was working for Trump as his chief strategist at the White House for part of 2017. And then, even though he got fired by Trump, kind of remained in the Trump orbit and was an informal advisor to him, sort of off and on, they would fight, he would be an advisor, then he would be an advisor. But he remained in his orbit almost all the way until the end of his first term. And I. He remains so to this day, is my understanding informally here and there. You know, why isn't Steve Bannon saying, dude, you're a creep. Get out of here. You know, I don't want to. No more emails from you, man. Stop. They continue to have these conversations and makes me. I'm not even. I'm not a lawyer. I don't play one on tv. But I would definitely want to sit down with some of these people who are mentioned to this, go through these emails and ask, what is this all about?
- [40:07]
C
I love it. Including Michael Wolf, journalist, who's giving Jeffrey Epstein PR advice and trying to give him leverage over Trump, like he's his lawyer or something. I'm like, dude, this guy's a pedophile. What are you doing?
- [40:21]
A
Yeah, well, Michael was trying to write books, and I guess that was that. Maybe that's. He would say that that was what he was doing. But, yeah, I mean, there was that email where they're talking. I think It's December of 2015. This is after Trump has already announced that he's running for president. He's, he's waging a campaign for the presidency for the first time. And, you know, Michael Wolf is coaching Epstein on, you know, what they should say to each other, back and forth. Yeah, this is it right here. I hear cnn, this is Michael Wolfe. I hear CNN planning to ask Trump tonight about his relationship with you, either on air or in a scrum afterwards. Michael understands how it works in the business. And then Jeffrey Epstein says, if we were able to craft an answer for him, what do you think it should be? And Michael says, I think you should let him hang himself. If he says he hasn't been on the plane or to the house, then that gives you a valuable PR and political currency and goes on and on and on. But what it suggests, if I'm not mistaken, Dave, is that there was still some kind of relationship between Epstein and Trump in this late 2015 time period.
- [41:30]
C
I mean, that's, that's what it sounds like, you know, but that's why I need release the files, because it's. Yeah, that's what it sounds like, that they had some communication. And then Epstein. And then you see the end where we'll say, don't worry. I'm sure he'll say, epstein, terrific guy. That's right.
- [41:48]
A
That's what it says at the end of the, at the end of the email. I can read it if, if we want to blow it up on screen for folks, but it says that, that this is all, you know, Trump would write this off as political correctness. That would have no place in a Trump regime. I think is. Yeah, you know, of course it is possible when asked, he'll say, Jeffrey's a great guy and has gotten a raw deal and is a victim of political correctness, which is to be outlawed in a Trump regime. I mean, this is Michael and Jeffrey sounding like, yeah, Trump could say something like that in December of 2015. It's just unreal stuff. And remember that there's that famous New York magazine article from 2002 where Trump talks about Jeffrey Epstein and talks about what a great guy he is, but that he likes ladies on the younger side, he likes women on the younger side. And here are the Steve Bannon texts that you were talking about about Dave Bannon and Epstein going back and forth via text. Allegedly, according to the documents that were released.
- [42:50]
C
Th. This is the case of the dog chasing the car. You had Bannon and Trump and Maga and Dan Bongino and Cash Patel all saying, release the files, release the list. This is the biggest conspiracy and we're going to get to the bottom of it. QAnon and now look what's coming out. This is really crazy. And when they say, well, why didn't the Democrats try to release this? Why do they all of a sudden care now? It's because it's always been a Republican obsession. The Democrats were never obsessed about this because we knew it wasn't a Democratic conspiracy. And Republicans are the ones who made this an issue. This thing probably would never become an issue had it not been one of the key conspiracy points that Trump used throughout his whole campaign. And, and that's why it's not going away. That's why you can't just blame it on a Democratic hoax, because the Republicans are the ones waiting for the information they were promised.
- [43:46]
A
Right? They're the conspiracy theorists. And then when, you know, they get into office, people are like, okay, well, tell us about the damn conspiracy theory. Let's see some documents, let's see some evidence of this. And then all of a sudden they clam up. And, and it wasn't until Elon Musk said, was it earlier this year, over the summer, we said the reason why the files have been kept a secret is because Donald Trump is in them. And that was when, you know, they started to put their guards up over at doj. FBI, White House. The DOJ put that memo out saying, nothing to see here, please disperse. And it's been a nightmare for them ever since.
- [44:24]
C
Exactly.
- [44:26]
A
Yeah.
- [44:27]
C
They're never going to get beyond this until they release the files. And I don't think they're going to release the files as long as Trump is president. Here's, here's what I predict. I think the House will pass this discharge petition to release the files. The Senate, I think, will pass it. They're like 13 Republican senators up for reelection. How are they going to go back to their constituents and say that they voted against transparency and Epstein? And then you'll have the most dramatic veto in history, maybe where Trump's gonna have to veto this or accept it. And then if it does get overridden over his veto, or if he doesn't veto it, then it'll go to the doj. And there are ways that the Justice Department could reveal. Yeah, they could, because there are court orders apparently in place to protect some of the alleged co conspirators. According to reports, there are rules on not disclosing information about victims. And so they could say, you know, Anything involving a victim, not only are we going to redact it, we're going to not reveal it, we're going to keep it in secret. And so we'll see what happens. That's why I don't think we're going to get the whole file while Trump is still president.
- [45:34]
A
And you're less optimistic than I am. I think it's quite possible that you'll have, you won't have 13 senators who will go along with the Democrats and that you will see somebody in the Senate try to block this on behalf of Donald Trump. And one has to think if they were taking Lauren Boebert into the Situation Room to show that off, to get her to, you know, block this discharge petition in the House, that they must be lining up some, some kind of goodies for the Republican senators who they think they probably are workshopping this with a whiteboard. Which senator is the one that we can get to go along with us and block this, or who are the guys that we can get to block this? And it's going to be very interesting to watch. I think you're absolutely 100 correct about that.
- [46:21]
C
Right. But they're still up for reelection. And all you need to break the Filibuster is just 60 votes total.
- [46:28]
A
60 votes.
- [46:29]
C
Yeah.
- [46:30]
A
So we'll see, we'll see. If they get 13, there are 53. And if you can get 13, then that's something, I guess.
- [46:36]
C
But yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, this thing is just, it didn't have to be. This was a man made crisis. It was never inevitable. It was created by Donald Trump who has been really good at spin, really good at messaging, communication. But on this one he gets an F. Yeah.
- [46:54]
A
And, and I do want to play something that I heard. Megan Kelly was talking about this case and Dave, maybe you can enlighten us a little bit. She was talking about the case and, and talking about how, you know, she knows somebody who's close to all this. And you know, Jeffrey Epstein wasn't into young girls, he was into teenagers, which is not. Anyway, it's, it's a, it's a complete mess, whatever she is saying here. But let's play it and talk about on the other side before.
- [47:21]
E
But just as a reminder, I do know somebody very, very close to this case who is in a position to know virtually everything, not everything, but virtually everything. And this person has told me from the start, years and years ago that Jeffrey Epstein, in this person's view, was not a pedophile. This is this person's view who was there for a lot of this, but that he was into the barely legal type. Like he liked 15 year old girls. And I, I realize this is disgusting. I'm definitely not trying to make an excuse for this. I'm just giving you facts that he wasn't into like 8 year olds, but he liked the very young teen types that could pass for even younger than they were but would look legal to a passerby. And that is what I believed and that was what I reliably was told for many years. And it wasn't until we heard from Pam Bondi that they had tens of thousands of videos of alleged, forgive me, they used to call it kiddie porn, now they call it child sexual abuse material. Maybe we on his computer.
- [48:25]
A
So I mean, Dave, I don't, I don't know what Megyn Kelly is trying to do here and if she's trying to split hairs and all of this, but a 15 year old, I mean that is child sex abuse. That is, that is, that is not. I don't know what she's talking about here. Can you weigh in on the legality of this here? I mean it seems to me that she, Megyn Kelly does not know what she's talking about and maybe she's just relaying a story, but it doesn't sound good what she's saying.
- [48:54]
C
It was an artful. But I do think she was relaying the story, she was saying what this guy was saying and at the end it sort of conflates her beliefs with, with his. And I think that's where she, she may need to clarify it because I saw there's a firestorm online because. Firestorm, yeah, yeah. Because I mean, I can't imagine anyone would say it's justified against a teenage girl under 18.
- [49:16]
A
Exactly.
- [49:17]
C
Nothing. First of all, sex trafficking is always illegal. But if you are 18 or over, it requires force, fraud or coercion. If you're under 18, there is no need for force, fraud or coercion. The individual cannot consent. That person is a victim. You know what's a little tidbit on this? Also a reason why, and this is some, something I know as, as being a former state attorney down here in Palm beach county is one of the reasons why the prosecutors here in Palm beach county at the time did not go hard against Epstein is because the law at the time was that if you were an underage girl, a 15, 14 year old, and you were getting paid money for sex acts, you were under the law seen as a prostitute. And that's why Epstein was Charged with solicitation of prostitution. Thankfully, now the we've come to our senses and the laws have changed and they are victims. They're a 15 year old girl is not a prostitute anymore, she's a victim. But because the laws were different, was a different time. Now this is not to excuse the prosecutors then, this is not to justify it. This is just to give you a little bit of an explanation of what was going through their minds at the time.
- [50:26]
A
And you were mentioning Palm Beach, I mean, folks need to understand you, you were a prosecutor in Palm Beach. I mean I have to think that this is what everybody is talking about down there right now, or a lot of people are talking about this right now, that this is now blown up, this Trump Epstein relationship, which is now not just pictures of guys dancing on the dance floor and acting lewd and that sort of thing. It's now documented. And I just have to think people are saying, huh, see, I told you. Or I, you know, I knew this was going on or this, that and the other thing.
- [50:59]
C
Oh, I mean everyone's talking about it down here, but they're probably talking about it everywhere. And also, yeah, I was the state attorney, but six years after the Epstein case came through the office, it was already, yeah, I put that in my bio, state attorney starting in 2013 and then I left the office in January so I can speak out more on, on shows like yours. But it is something that, what happened was it was through the office in Palm beach county, the state prosecutors and the local police chief in Palm beach who really wanted Jeffrey Epstein to go down for all this. He didn't like the way that the local prosecutors were handling it. So he went to the feds, called the FBI, went to the feds and the feds took it away. And then they entered into their own deal with Epstein. The deal that is so controversial with the non prosecutorial agreement that involved Epstein pleading guilty not to federal crimes, but to state crimes and serving time in a state facility or here, a local jail. I've never seen the feds take away a case and then say, now we're going to make you plead guilty to state crimes, not federal crimes and your sentence is going to be in local jail.
- [52:08]
A
So weird, so strange. And it's, it's been this way for years. If you talk to the survivors, you know, they've said this, that this is, you know, they have, they've been pleading for justice, pleading for the truth to come out, pleading for, you know, some, somebody to come along and show some guts and do this the right way, and so many lives have been damaged in the process. We saw that what happened with Virginia Giuffre earlier this year, committing suicide. I mean, it's just been a sad, terrible, tragic story. But Dave, always appreciate the insights, man. Thank you so much.
- [52:41]
C
Thank you, Jim. And thank you for showing people my substack at David, you got it.
- [52:46]
A
You got it.
- [52:47]
C
On your show, I always get new subscribers, so thank you. You got a great audience.
- [52:51]
A
Good, good, good. Well, check out. Yeah, check out Dave, because Dave tells it like it is and boils it down in a really relatable way, which is why we, we like it. And, and, you know, you're a dog owner, too, so, you know, you can't be too bad that.
- [53:02]
C
Thanks, my friend. Appreciate it.
- [53:03]
A
All right. Thanks, Dave. All right, Good to see you. Take care. Appreciate it. Yeah. I mean, you know, I don't want to go after Megyn Kelly in, in what she said there. I mean, it is a little strange the way she was talking about it. And I, I think Dave is right. I think she probably should clarify what she was saying there. I mean, to me, this is a cut and dry issue. And there are questions. There are questions now for Donald Trump. And Megyn Kelly sounds like she's trying to make this go away for Donald Trump, that she's trying to use her platform, use her podium, use her, I guess, very popular podcast. I don't listen to it. I don't need to hear that kind of crap. But she's trying to use it in a way that is trying to explain things away for Donald Trump. I mean, are people on the right in the MAGA universe, in the, in the pod bro sphere, Are they, are they now going to try to do this yet again for Donald Trump, try to sleaze their way, sleaze his way out of this? There's no sleazing your way out of this. On this occasion, Donald Trump, you have some questions to answer. And, and last night, apparently he, he signed the, the bill to reopen the federal government. Reporters were yelling questions at him. What about the Epstein emails? What about all these documents? What's going on? He just sat there and didn't do anything, didn't say anything. Oh, thanks very much. All right, see you later. Bye. The questions are there. The questions are hanging over this presidency. It's much more than what did the President know and when did he know it? It's what, what did the President do? What did he do? Why is it that Jeffrey Epstein is saying to Ghislaine Maxwell in April of 2011 that Donald Trump is the dog that hasn't barked and that he spent time at his house with a victim for hours. What is. What is that all about? Donald Trump, what is that all about? Can you offer an explanation? What were you doing at Jeffrey Epstein's house for hours and hours? If this email is correct, and do we have any. Do we have any doubt in our minds that it is correct, why would Jeffrey Epstein email that to Ghislaine Maxwell back in 2011? There is no explanation other than it occurred. Why would. Why would Jeffrey Epstein be making up an email back then to Ghislaine Maxwell asking or talking about why Donald Trump was spending hours at his house with a victim? These are questions that need to be asked. The President of the United States, his name is all over these documents. They're all over these emails. I know. It's all. It's all been normalized. Our outrage sensors, they've been worn down. We're all supposed to just give Trump a pass every time on everything because he has worn us down. He has exhausted us with his corrupt, crooked behavior, with his unconstitutional authoritarian behavior, with his outlandish, cruel and offensive behavior. And we just don't want to. I get it. There are some of us who don't want to deal with this anymore. But why is it that Elon Musk is saying Donald Trump is in the Epstein files? That is the real reason why they have not been made public. Have a nice day, djt. Mark this post for the future. The truth will come out. The truth is starting to come out. The truth is coming out, ladies and gentlemen. And what is the White House going to do about this? And more importantly, the question now must be asked of every Republican senator in the United States Senate. Will you vote to release the Epstein files? We know that the House is going to pass this thing. It's going to pass the House. They tried to pull Lauren Boebert into the Situation Room to no avail. They couldn't even turn Lauren Boebert. They couldn't turn Nancy Mace. They couldn't turn Marjorie Taylor Greene. The question has to be asked of every Republican senator, are you going to vote to keep all of this a secret? And if so, why? What do you have in this? What's it to you? It seems to me the time is up and the bill is due and it's time to pay. And Donald Trump needs to come. He needs to come out and answer these questions. And when is the last time he's had a real press conference? He just hides from the press. Now he does these, these cockamamie press availabilities in the Oval Office or in front of the helicopters where there's, there's no opportunity for a real reporter to ask real questions. It's just all getting shouted over and people shouting over one another. Where's the real press conference? Where's the real, you haven't done one in a while. What's the deal with that? And I think a big reason why, and a big reason why the government was shut down for as long as it was, and a big reason why Mike Johnson wouldn't swear in Odalita Grialva is because this White House and this president is panic stricken over the Epstein files. But the, the documents are coming out. The Republicans on the House Oversight Committee are, are apparently such a bunch of Keystone Cops that they inadvertently released more documents that make Donald Trump look bad, such as an email from Jeffrey Epstein saying, I know how dirty Donald is. The Republicans released that one, not the Democrats. So we're way past, we're way past what did the President know and when did he know it? The question, the operative question at this hour, at this critical hour is what did the President do? What did you do, Donald Trump? What did you do? My thanks to Stephanie Rule, my thanks to Dave Ehrenberg, and my thanks to all of you still reporting from Washington, I'm Jim Acosta. I'll see you next time.