BREAKING NEWS - Charlie Kirk has died after a shooting attack in Utah. Former Senator Doug Jones, Harry Dunn, Olivia Troye and Glenn Kirschner all joined to discuss.

Summary

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The Jim Acosta Show

Episode: BREAKING NEWS – Charlie Kirk has died after a shooting attack in Utah
Date: September 10, 2025
Host: Jim Acosta
Guests: Harry Dunn, Olivia Troye, Glenn Kirschner, Senator Doug Jones

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Overview of the Episode

This urgent broadcast of The Jim Acosta Show responds to the breaking news that Charlie Kirk—conservative activist and Turning Point USA founder—was shot and killed during a campus event at Utah Valley University, Utah. Joined by guests across the political spectrum and with backgrounds in law enforcement, security, and politics, Acosta leads a candid, emotional conversation about political violence, its normalization, the broader consequences for American democracy, and the urgent need for de-escalation and reflection.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Immediate Facts & Updates

• Kirk was shot at Utah Valley University (Orem, Utah) during a public event ([01:36]).
• Early confusion surrounded the apprehension of the shooter; initial reports of a suspect in custody were later retracted ([61:57]).
• Kirk was confirmed dead by President Trump on Truth Social; mainstream outlets (AP, NBC) followed ([78:46]–[81:08]).
• The attack appears to have been a long-range/sniper shooting ([87:23]).
• The context of regular mass shootings: A separate school shooting occurred the same day in Colorado ([33:13], [44:18]).
• Kirk was 31, husband, and father ([01:21], [09:23], [91:55]).

2. Condemnation of Political Violence

• Unanimous, forceful condemnation: “Political violence has no place in this country… This cannot happen. This is not okay.” — Harry Dunn ([00:42]–[02:30]).
• Violence against any political affiliation is wrong; recent trend cited: Minnesota state lawmaker Melissa Hortman’s assassination, January 6, attack on Paul Pelosi, and the assassination attempt on Donald Trump ([02:30], [04:59], [05:15], [11:26]).
• Recurrent warnings against “tit for tat” or “cycle of revenge” dynamics ([12:18], [25:10], [93:15]).
• Rhetorical disagreement—even harsh debate—should never lead to violence ([11:26], [14:42]).

3. Societal Normalization & Dangers

• Political violence is becoming normalized and Americans are growing numb ([09:39], [10:02], [47:06]).
• Guests recount routine threats, death threats, and security precautions at public events ([23:32], [25:10], [43:23], [66:22]).
• Warnings that broad social media platforms exacerbate division and can incite responses ([50:58], [52:02]–[54:48]).

4. Responsibility of Leadership and Public Figures

• The urgent need for leaders, especially from both major parties, to denounce violence and refuse to inflame tensions for political gain ([36:34], [38:59], [41:00], [90:21]).
• Frustration at President Trump’s history of inflammatory rhetoric and failures to meet the moment as “consoler in chief”; comparisons to Joe Biden’s response to tragedy ([36:34], [37:57], [39:29], [93:44]).
• Elon Musk’s provocative post—“The left is the party of murder”—was called out repeatedly as dangerous (“This is a powder keg…” — Jim Acosta, [52:27]).

5. Media & Social Media: Misinformation & Amplification

• Social media plays a central role in spreading both information and dangerous inflammatory statements ([52:02]–[54:48]).
• Calls for responsibility by those with vast reach—journalists, politicians, and tech leaders alike ([91:55], [94:21]).

6. Fear, Security, & New Realities for Public Life

• Increasing reliance on personal security for public figures; impact on civil liberties and open discourse ([26:41], [43:23], [88:40]).
• Expectation that universities and other venues will need to significantly increase security for future political events ([26:41], [44:18], [89:44]).

7. Deep Reflection and Hopeful Calls for Unity

• Host and guests urge deep collective reflection, recognizing that the country is at a crisis point ([78:46], [81:18], [93:02]).
• “This is a moment to turn down the volume, to turn down the rhetoric.” — Jim Acosta ([94:37])
• Hope that Republican and Democratic leaders can join together to challenge the culture of violence, de-escalate tensions, and defend democratic practice ([58:10], [59:00]–[63:46]).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On the Shock and Outrage

• Jim Acosta [00:00]:
  “Political violence has no place in this country…this is wrong, period.”
• Harry Dunn [02:30]:
  “Political violence is not okay. Never. …no matter what ideology you’re from, no matter what side of the aisle you’re on, this cannot happen.”
• Olivia Troy [17:36]:
  “We should be able to attend events and feel safe without a situation like this developing.”
• Glenn Kirschner [19:42]:
  “Violence begets violence…I wish we could find a way to begin to reduce the heat and pull back from this insane rhetoric.”

On Normalization and Numbness

• Jim Acosta [09:39]:
  “Might not like his politics, but…everybody should be able to have their say. And political violence should not be normalized. …we keep having these kind of instances every few months. It does kind of get normalized. People get numb to it.”
• Senator Doug Jones [45:42]:
  “We’re just seem to be getting numb to this kind of violence. And it’s on both sides of the aisle.”

On Cycles of Violence and Retaliation

• Glenn Kirschner [19:42]:
  “Violence begets violence in certain circumstances...I fear that where we are is, if not at a boiling point, we are…at this simmering stage.”
• Jim Acosta [12:18]:
  “What I get concerned about is the potential for a cycle of back and forth kind of violence, you know, that somebody on the right would see this and say, okay, well, now it’s time to do this. Because when does it end?”
• Olivia Troy [81:08]:
  “I worry about what is to come in terms of how conservative figures and the reaction from the right on this situation is what really worries me, Jim, is how this is going to play out.”

On Leadership Responsibility

• Jim Acosta [36:34]:
  “For all the stuff that was said about Joe Biden, I mean, this is…an area where Joe Biden excelled. He excelled at being the consoler in chief and trying to bring people together. …That’s what we need right now.”
• Glenn Kirschner [58:10]:
  “I would again challenge both political parties to step up and to try to do whatever you can do to lower the temperature in America, understanding that that might…misplease Donald Trump, but at some point, just care about at least your own constituents, not your own sort of political viability and your next reelection campaign. Care about America, care about the health and viability of our democracy.”

On Social Media and Provocation

• Jim Acosta [52:16]:
  “Elon Musk apparently tweeted… ‘The left is the party of murder.’ …This is a powder keg…”
• Senator Doug Jones [53:01]:
  “No one can say that [that post] is in the best interest of the American people. …That’s just typical of Musk who, who shoots off his mouth before he thinks.”
• Olivia Troy [90:21]:
  “That’s the wrong takeaway from this moment. And it’s absolutely not helpful…”

On Hope, Reflection, and Moving Forward

• Jim Acosta [78:46]:
  “This is not a time for politics. This is not a time for scoring points. This is a time for deep reflection in this country.”
• Harry Dunn [14:26]:
  “An eye for an eye makes the whole world…blind. …We can’t just keep going back and forth and tit for tat. This has to end and be condemned by everybody.”
• Jim Acosta [94:42]:
  “A young man’s life was taken away. He’s just 31 years old, Charlie Kirk. …He, as an American citizen, had the right to express [his views]. …We’re better than this, America. …I still am holding out hope that we can get there and that we can learn from this episode…”

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [00:00–03:51]: Breaking news reported; condemnation of political violence (Acosta/Dunn)
• [13:25–15:04]: On intentionality of the shooting and holding the shooter accountable
• [16:30–19:38]: Olivia Troy & Glenn Kirschner join; discussion on polarization and violence escalation
• [23:32–24:31]: Guests describe escalating threats and normalization of danger for public figures
• [33:13–34:52]: Parallel coverage of school shooting in Colorado
• [36:34–38:59]: Failure of presidential leadership, calls for bipartisan condemnation and unity
• [47:06–49:10]: Senator Jones: reflection on history, hate, and the numbing impact of polarization and violence
• [52:02–54:48]: Elon Musk’s inflammatory post and dangers of irresponsible social media leadership
• [61:57]: Real-time updates: suspect custody confusion
• [78:46]: On-air confirmation: Charlie Kirk’s death announced
• [81:08–83:44]: Reflecting on Kirk’s significance, worries about retaliation
• [93:02–94:42]: Closing reflections and host’s final plea to American society

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Structure of Final Message

The episode unspooled as a tense, painful, and wide-ranging live conversation, marked by shock and distress in real time. Participants often reiterated their opposition to the very notion of political violence, regardless of ideology. There was a strong emphasis on the need for leadership, collective responsibility, and returning to civility and nonviolence in American public life.

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Key Takeaways

• Political violence in America is at a crisis point; normalization is dangerous and frightening.
• Emotional unity across disagreement: Guests from different backgrounds were unanimous in their condemnation.
• Leadership vacuum: Desperate appeals for Republican and Democratic leaders to stand together and de-escalate.
• The media and tech platforms play a critical role, and have the power to heal or inflame.
• Reflection and restraint are urgently needed at every level of society, from presidents to ordinary citizens.
• The future trajectory is undetermined: it will depend on how leaders, media, and millions of Americans choose to respond.

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Host’s Closing Reflection:
"We are not at our best right now. ...We need to get back to a place where we can have these kinds of discussions peacefully, nonviolently. ...If we resort to political violence, it is going to take us down a very dark road." — Jim Acosta [94:37]

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End of Summary

Transcript

[Jim Acosta]

Foreign welcome to the Jim Acosta Show. I'm coming on a little early this afternoon with the breaking news that the conservative activist Charlie Kirk has been shot in Utah. I'm joined by Harry Dunn. I'll have some others joining me shortly. But, Harry, I reached out to you because I just saw your message you posted on Substack a few minutes ago. You know, basically, underlying what we're all thinking right now, political violence has no place in this country. And, and we don't know all the details as to what the motivations are of the shooter and so on, but this is wrong, period.

[Harry Dunn]

It's. It's wrong. And, you know, with polarizing individuals like somebody like Charlie Kirk, it's easy for people to get wrapped in their emotions and just say how they feel or just express nothing. And that's fine. But, but we can't normalize this. Political violence is not okay. Never. You know, we just had something in Minnesota when Melissa Hortman was assassinated. This is not okay. No matter what ideology you're from, no matter what side of the aisle you're on, this cannot happen. And this is not okay. It's not much more that you can say when it comes to this. And just that image right there, here's.

[Jim Acosta]

The video, video that's on social media right now.

[Harry Dunn]

I've seen some even more graphic ones. And you know, I encourage people don't go searching for it if you're not sure that you want to see it because it is pretty graphic.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah, it's graphic, Harry. And I mean, this is. These are the details that we know so far from NBC that the shots were fired at an event for right wing activist Charlie Kirk at Utah Valley University in Orem, just north of Provo. This is according to a statement from the school. He was removed from the premises by a security team. And as we're just showing, videos are circulating online right now that appear to show Charlie Kirk recoiling after a shot was heard. It looks like maybe he was shot in the neck. A suspect is in custody. And here's some of the video right here. Yeah, you know, it happens quickly. And we don't want to show too much more than this right now out of respect to his family and so on. Apparently he's a father. And, and you know this, Harry, because you go to a lot of college campuses, you're doing a lot of speaking engagements these days. Things are tense right now.

[Harry Dunn]

Things are extremely tense. And that's why I think it, it's always better if you've heard the phrase Cooler heads prevail. And I think people need to just focus right now on just taking the temperature down. And that's what it should have been for a long time. You know, just think about all the, the tragic events and the political violence. I mean, hell, January 6th, you know, just how, how that's the epitome of political violence right there. And that's not okay. And we got to let things play out the way that they are. But playing out with violence is never, never okay. I recently joined the advisory board of Home of the Brave. Of the Brave. And in the video that I released it yesterday, literally said, our most powerful tool that we have is our voice. It says nothing about weapons, nothing about fists, nothing about bats, nothing about any type of weapons. But this is not the way. This is not the way. This is not okay. And we can't normalize this. And yes, I understand completely the way people feel like he may have said some inflammatory things, some things that people don't agree with. I, I understand that, but this is, this is not okay. This is not okay, and we can't normalize it.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah, it's definitely not okay. And, and Charlie, I mean, I will say to his credit, I mean, this is something he's been doing for years now, going to college campuses, talking to students. There's a healthy give and take that goes on. People give him the business, rhetorically speaking, he gives it right back. And, you know, not everybody likes Charlie's views. Far from it. But, you know, you don't take matters into your own hands. This is not. How do you win an argument like this? You don't win an argument like this. And, you know, I, I, I, I worry about what this means for the future of our country when something like this happens. I hope that he's okay. I hope he pulls through this. But, you know, the way he was shot worries me greatly about how he's going to recover from this, Harry. And you know, to me, you know, this, this, this could take the country to a, to a dark place, to, to a bad place. You know, we can't.

[Harry Dunn]

I'm praying that it doesn't. I'm praying that it doesn't. But I mean, we, we are at a dark place. I mean, we've been on the edge of it. Diverse. I would, A lot of people argue we are already are there.

[Jim Acosta]

We are there.

[Harry Dunn]

We are there. Like I said, we. This just happened back in June where in Minnesota. We had, like I said, Melissa Hortman was assassinated. Her, her dog, her husband were, or I think it was her husband. Forgive me if I'm. Yeah, those details were assassinated.

[Jim Acosta]

That's right.

[Harry Dunn]

We're already there. There was an attempt on Donald Trump's life during the campaign trail. That. That can't happen. We cannot have this. This is not the answer. This is not okay, full stop. And I, I get. I totally get. People are incensed and enraged by some of the rhetoric that comes out of people's mouths. But violence, violence because of it, is never the way. And it's not okay.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah.

[Senator Doug Jones]

And.

[Harry Dunn]

And are they. They've been reported that the shooter is in custody. Is that accurate or.

[Jim Acosta]

That's what they're saying right now. Yeah. And I. There's some social media video circulating right now that shows a guy on the ground at the scene being held by police and so on. I, I can't confirm that. I don't know if that's the case or not. My old, you know, news standards are, you know, those gears are turning in my head and thinking, okay, let's not, let's hold on and just wait for the facts to come in before we form too many conclusions. But, yes, there are news reports coming out of Utah, Deseret News and so on, saying that a suspect has been taken into custody. And, and Harry, I mean, you know, this is. This is America right now in 2025. The. The country is flooded with guns. And I. Listen, I'm not saying this as, As a. Like, I'm not trying to use something that's happened here as a. Make a political argument, anything like that, but Utah, it's just a fact, has some of the most permissive gun laws in the country. You can. They. They call it constitutional carry. You can basically carry a firearm pretty much wherever you go, if you're legally allowed do that. And I guess we'll have to find out what exactly was the case with this shooting. But, I mean, Charlie was just sitting there in one of those radio booths or whatever he was doing, speaking to the public, and this can't. This can't happen.

[Harry Dunn]

Yeah. And. And like you said, Charlie has been doing that for years, which is why, I guess, he's become polarizing, because a lot of people have had a lot of time to see his views on various topics and issues that a lot of people don't agree with. It's. I. I forgot the term, but he's. Yeah, just polarizing.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah, of course.

[Harry Dunn]

But like, but like you said, Jim, it's. And it's easy, like, to change the narrative into somebody's life being shattered, you know, Whether he survives or not, his life is shattered, his family's life is shattered. It's easy to make the conversation about, you know, gun control or red. But what this is, is political violence and it cannot stand, no matter what. Just like when, when Nancy Pelosi's husband was attacked with a hammer or it's. It's been so many instances that we can just, we can sit down and run a, a list of it, and it's not okay.

[Jim Acosta]

Each side can say, oh, well, this happened to our side.

[Harry Dunn]

That means your side is wrong.

[Jim Acosta]

It's not. Steve Scalise, you know, he was shot several years ago. You remember that? Yeah, yeah. I mean, that took place, obviously, what took place in, in Minnesota earlier this year. Absolutely.

[Harry Dunn]

It's going to be so easy to for say, oh, this is your fault. This side, oh, this is happen. But it's happening to both sides and it's not okay. We, we cannot have that. And, and public officials or public Persona, hell, anybody, even private people, should not be subjected to, to any type of violence just for having an opinion. And like I said, Jim, I get it. A lot of people are incensed that we're in a pressure cooker right now and just.

[Jim Acosta]

That's right.

[Harry Dunn]

But this is not the way. This is not the way and it's not okay.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah. And apparently his organization, Turning Point usa, spokesperson for Turning Point usa, is confirming to NBC that Kirk has been shot. We know that, but the organization is saying he is in the hospital and that they are praying for him at this time. So hopefully he's in the hospital. That's a good sign. Obviously, he's going to be transported to a hospital no matter what.

[Harry Dunn]

Yeah.

[Jim Acosta]

But let's just hope that he pulls through this. And, you know, for folks out there who, who are saying, you know, who are making light of this or trying to make political hay out of this or whatever. Got to remember, guy is married with kids.

[Harry Dunn]

Yeah.

[Jim Acosta]

Might not like his politics, but in this country, the way it works in the United States, everybody should be able to have their say. And political violence should not be normalized. That's what I. But what I'm getting concerned about, Harry, is that we keep having these kind of instances every few months. It does kind of get normalized. People get numb to it.

[Harry Dunn]

That's what's scary about this, Jim. Like a lot of the times that we're living in now, people say, this is not normal. This is not okay. And that's what we can't let it. Like, you have to push back, forcibly against this. Like, I, I'm not a fan of Charlie Kirk. I'm not a fan of any his policies, his ideas, not at all. But never in a million years would it cross my mind to, to go out there and commit violence against them. The people who attacked me and my co workers at the Capitol. I, I haven't thought about going to go get revenge on them. This is not okay. This is not the way. And, and you know, a lot of people are mocking, like thoughts and prayers and a lot of, yeah, don't do it, don't. I, I get it, I get it. Just, we can't fan these flames that continue to incense this, this type of activity that we're seeing right now. And it's, it's not okay because one, like I said, it's, it's a, it's a human being, obviously with kids and, you know, a wife or whatever his family demographics are. But it could be somebody else the next week. Like I said, we've been just going, like you said, Scalise, then Pelosi, then Melissa Hartman and, and then Charlie Kirk. And it's just been, I'm sure I'm leaving out several that are just blanking my mind right now, but this is not okay. And there aren't many more words that you can say. There's no if, ands or buts about it.

[Jim Acosta]

And it was wrong when Donald Trump would make jokes about Paul Pelosi getting hurt. And that's not right. And it's not right for people to make light of that and that sort of a thing. It's not, it's not correct to do it like this as well in this, in this instance as well. And listen, I mean, you know, I'll just tell everybody right now, Charlie Kirk has come after me. He's, he's gone off on me. He's gone on Fox and said stuff about me and so on. That's part of the game. That's, I mean, that's part of what we're going through in this country right now. People are going to go after each other, rhetorically speaking, from time to time. It happens. But that doesn't mean you wish ill upon somebody, doesn't mean you wish that that harm comes to them. You know, that's what separates.

[Harry Dunn]

Gonna sit down and have a break bread with him or go have a beer with. No.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah, yeah.

[Harry Dunn]

But you don't, like you just said, you don't wish ill on people just because of like, disagreements.

[Jim Acosta]

And, and what I get concerned about is the potential for a Cycle of back and forth kind of violence, you know, that somebody on the right would see this and say, okay, well, now it's time to do this. Yeah.

[Harry Dunn]

Because when does it end?

[Jim Acosta]

When does it end? We can't have a situation like that in this country, folks. It's going to take us, it's just going to take us to a bad place. But, you know, Harry, I'm glad you jumped on. But again, to recap what, what we're hearing right now, shots fired at an event for Charlie Kirk at Utah Valley University in Orem. That is south, north of Provo, I should say Provo, Utah. And he was removed from the premises by a security team. His organization, Turning Point, says he has been taken to the hospital. That's what we know right now. No word yet on his condition, whether he is stable, whether it's critical, what have you. We're, we're waiting for that information to come in as we speak. But Harry, we were showing that video a few moments ago. My goodness. It looks, it looks to be deliberate. I mean, I don't know how else. Yeah, you can describe it. It looks to be deliberate.

[Harry Dunn]

Yeah, it looked to be a very intentional act. And that would explain the, the, the, the, the shooter being in custody, what appeared to be very rapidly. Maybe the shooter didn't go anywhere or didn't. I. I don't know. I'm sure a lot more information will come out about it, but I don't care about the shooter's gender. I don't care about his political affiliation. I don't care about who we gave money to. He's a criminal now, and he, he, he should be held accountable to the fullest extent of the law. Point blank period.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah.

[Harry Dunn]

And, and that's it.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah. And, and we were saying this earlier, Harry. You've been crisscrossing the country, going to different events, talking to different groups of people, and there's a lot of, there's a lot of anger out there right now. And there's a lot of anger on the, on the left among progressives. And, you know, you just can't take it to this extreme, folks. It's just not, you know, it's just not right.

[Harry Dunn]

It's not right. And like you said, Jim, we can't normalize this. And I don't know if this was more of a. Somebody of importance in history said it or just came out of a movie. But, but right. Like the saying is, an eye for an eye makes the whole world, leaves the whole world blind.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah.

[Harry Dunn]

And, you know, we we can't just keep going back and forth and tit for tat. This has to end and be condemned by everybody.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah. And as you were saying earlier, I mean, January 6th was an act of political violence.

[Harry Dunn]

Yeah.

[Jim Acosta]

Was an act of political violence. And, and that's why it's healthy for somebody like you, Harry, to be saying this. I, I, I appreciate you saying it, of course.

[Harry Dunn]

And you know, I, I, thanks, Jim, but, you know, it's. I, I, I, I'd be very remiss if I didn't acknowledge people's feelings. Like people's lives are affected by the rhetoric that somebody can say, whether it's liberal, whether it's conservative, whatever. People's lives are affected. But words have consequences. But that consequence should never be being shot in the chest or wherever or death or assassin. It's words should not ever lead to that.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah. And Charlie ought to be able, in this country to go out and say whatever he wants to say. I mean, that's the American way. You ought to be able to do that. All right, The Associated Press is now reporting that Charlie Kirk is in critical condition. That is just coming in now from the Associated Press. Just seeing the alert a pop up on my screen. That's, that, that is not good, folks. I mean, obviously, you know, there's, there's always a, a chance that he'll be okay, but if he's in critical condition, Harry, that, that is not a good sign.

[Harry Dunn]

Yeah.

[Jim Acosta]

It means it could be fighting for his life right now.

[Harry Dunn]

It could be. And I mean, just based on what we saw, it looks like he, he might be. And like I said, you never want to jump to conclusions, but, you know, it's just this.

[Jim Acosta]

It doesn't look good. I know.

[Harry Dunn]

And it's terrible, man.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah. Olivia Troy is here, too. Olivia. Hey, how you doing? Good to see you. Hi. Thanks. Thanks for coming on. I mean, your thoughts as we're watching this unfold. Apparently, we're now learning from the Associated Press that Charlie Kirk is in critical condition. And when you see the video, you can.

[Olivia Troy]

No, it was awesome. Yeah, it was, it was horrific watching it.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah.

[Olivia Troy]

Yeah. Judging from the way it looked, I was, I was extremely worried about it and worried for the people in attendance. And I just keep thinking about his family and I, you know, I, I, I, obviously I posted about this on Socials. Coming from a conservative background and knowing a lot of these individuals personally, and it's, it's never okay, regardless of what side it is coming from. And I think that we need to really get to A better moment in our society. I don't appreciate some of the attacks I'm getting for expressing how horrified I am about what has happened to Charlie.

[Jim Acosta]

I put out a post, too. I said I put out a post. I hope he's okay. I. I genuinely do.

[Olivia Troy]

We don't. We never want something like this to happen. And I caught a little bit of what you guys were saying. I mean, we should be able to advocate for our political beliefs. We should be able to attend events and feel safe without a situation like this developing. And we've seen political violence happen against many individuals, and we don't really know all the details on this, but I think we are in a period where I think this type of violence is going to continue to increase. We've seen it. It has been on the rise in the past couple years. And I hope that there are resources that will be used here domestically by the FBI and other law enforcement agencies that will actually do something to track the ongoing violence, the rise of it. Because I do think that we have. We have an increasing problem in this country.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah, and let's bring. Glenn Kirchner, apparently is available, too. We can bring him in, too. But, Olivia, why is it on the rise? What is happening? What. We are so polarized as a country right now. Obviously, Donald Trump is the President of the United States. He's an intensely polarizing figure. But you're right that this has been. It's been trending in this direction for some time. And Glenn, I see you there. Thanks for jumping on. Glenn Kirschen, we'll grab you in a sec.

[Olivia Troy]

You know, I think we've got some rhetoric that's been on the increase. We've got a lot of divisive. Our politics are very divided. I think hate is certainly on the rise in this country. And I think right now we're watching it affect a very conservative voice on the political spectrum. But we never want this to escalate like this. We've seen violence against political leaders. We saw what happened in Minnesota, which is horrific. We've seen tragedies like this across the board. And I think we've got to get to a moment where, like, political leaders are condemning this regardless of what political party it is.

[Jim Acosta]

Right. Yeah. Glenn, what do you think? Your thoughts? Thanks for coming on.

[Glenn Kirschner]

Yeah, no, it's great to be with all of you. You know, Jim, I've seen that violence begets violence in certain circumstances. You know, for 22 of my 30 years as a prosecutor in D.C. i handled murder cases and violent crime driven RICO cases. And, you know, when I saw violence, begetting violence, it was when there were, for example, feuding street crews or gangs or criminal enterprises. And, you know, we. We shoot one of yours, you shoot one of ours, and it escalates. But, you know, what I will say is I don't think that political. Until recently, political violence didn't typically lead to more political violence. I remember, as I'm sure all of you do, when President Reagan was shot, that didn't result in further political violence in response to what was done to him. Now, we all know that that was sort of a mentally challenged individual who, you know, really, based on delusional urgings, did what he did. But still, you know, and even when there was the attempt on Donald Trump, that didn't seem to beget retaliatory political violence. However, it does begin to feel like we are in this, you know, dangerous cycle. And I'm not going to blame, obviously, this incident on Donald Trump, but when you have a political party that, for example, makes light of violence, like against Paul Pelosi, you know, you have Trump himself and other members of the Republican Party who were mocking the attack on Paul Pelosi, I fear that where we are is, if not at a boiling point, we are, you know, at this simmering stage where it feels like people are maybe so desperate, so anxious, so despondent at the circumstances that political violence is going to become a viable, you know, possibility for them to sort of deal with their frustration, their anxiety and their despair. And we all have to find a way to. To cool it down and ratchet that back, which is hard to do when you have the streets of Washington, D.C. militarized. You know, what signal is the administration sending that, you know, we are willing to do anything to expand our control of the people. So I wish we could find a way to begin to reduce the heat and pull back from this insane rhetoric that has been going on.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah, you're absolutely right, Glenn. It's so well put. And I just want to reiterate for folks who might just be jumping on and tuning in, that Charlie Kirk, the conservative activist, is being treated and is in critical condition. This is according to the Associated Press, a law enforcement official briefed on the shooting telling this to the Associated Press. You know, according to the public relations manager for Turning Point usa, they say, we are confirming that he was shot. We're praying for Charlie. You know, Harry, what's. What's so scary about this is that, I mean, this can happen just about anywhere in America now to anybody from Any political party. Olivia, Glenn, you, myself, we've all spoken in front of groups. As a matter of fact, I was just speaking to a group earlier this afternoon. We're all going out there and lending our voice to our, you know, the causes that we care about. And Charlie was doing the same thing. You might not like it, but he. That's what he was doing. Yeah.

[Harry Dunn]

And that's. That's what makes, you know, when I. I'll use running for office as an example. I think a lot of the people that step up and want to be public figures or public servants in whatever capacity deserve all the credit in the world because it is frightening, especially in this climate that we're living in right now. Olivia has talked about it, I'm sure. Glenn, yourself, me, we've getting those death threats in. You may get used to it, but it doesn't come a time where you read it and it. It doesn't send a little bit of a chill down your spine, just a little bit. But that's the thing. You can't normalize it to the point where, hey, I got another death threat today. What's new with you? Like, that's not normal. It's not. Okay, listen, like, we live. Everybody talks about free speech, and we should be able to use our voices. Yes. Words have consequences. Absolutely. Those consequences should never let lead to you being shot or being, you know, your life being put in danger.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah, yeah. No, I mean, I. I remember, you know, it was 2018. There was a deranged person, Trump supporter who was sending pipe bombs out. 1. You know, there are multiple ones that went to CNN, and the person who was sending those out had threatened to kill me. And, you know. You know, this is just out of control, Olivia. I mean, I just. I think that this is. I think Glenn's right. I think we're heading to a spot where it's starting to feel sort of tit for tat, and that is not good. And Glenn is right in that. I don't remember us being in a place like this, which is not good.

[Olivia Troy]

No, I remember those. I remember the pipe bombs and the packages being sent. We were tracking that closely and had to work on that incident. And I also did inform the West Wing and the president and the vice president at the time that this was one of their supporters that was doing it, had attended numerous rallies, and there were a number of situations like that where I briefed where we could point directly to certain rhetoric that led to an attack, whether it was a mass shooting at a synagogue, whether it was mass shooting in my hometown of El Paso. We can see the patterns here, but to. To the points that everyone has made, I think, you know, it is pretty alarming that the first thing I did when I saw the headline, other than be horrified, shocked, and very worried for Charlie's life, given the footage that I had seen online and concerned and hoping that he's okay, was place a call to my local law enforcement and to security to increase patrols of my house. Because I think we are in an era where there is revenge and tit for tat, like you said, Glenn. And so that was really sad that that was my first instinct, was to think about my family and think about will. This has happened to Charlie like anyone else could be next and as a revenge. And I think that is a horrifying thing, especially for someone like me who comes from homeland security and from the national security community. That. That was my first gut reaction, was like, oh, my God, this is awful. Thinking of him and his family and then turning and looking at mine and being like, what do I do?

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah. And Glenn, I mean, I think this is going to result in universities, campuses having to beef up security for events like this. I have to assume they had security for. For Charlie's event today. There's just no. I mean, one would think that that's pretty standard, but there's going to have to be more of this. And universities deciding how do we host these kinds of events. Can he, you know, should they be out in the open like this and so on? I mean, it. This is just the new reality.

[Glenn Kirschner]

It is the. The new reality. And listen, campus security is important. I was the head of student campus security 100 years ago when I was in college. I got to actually take G. Gordon Liddy, of all people around while he was addressing the students at my university. But the. The sad fact is it's going to actually impact our civil liberties. The more security we need, the more police and national guards that are deployed to our streets. That's not a solution to this problem. That's like saying a solution to school shootings is reinforcing the doors and the windows. That is an asinine approach to the problem of violence, regardless of what that violence is inspired by, politics, mental illness, illness, or something else. So ratcheting up security is not the answer. It may be necessary, but the answer is trying to convince both parties that, you know, how about we consider going back to a time when we could civilly discuss and disagree matters of policy, but not matters of democracy. I mean, that's What I think we have to try to get back to, and I have to believe there are people on both sides and in the middle who would like to get back to that. We need a groundswell of those people. And I know everybody here has personal stories about death threats, Jim. And this, I think, highlights the power of independent media. When I was speaking at the principal's first Republican summit in Washington, D.C. who is it that broke the fact that there were bomb threats made and that a number of people, including myself, by name, quote, deserve to die? It was you, Jim, who. Who broke that news. I still have that on my phone because I took a screenshot of it as I was sitting in that venue. I mean, this can't be the America that the Republican Party wants, but in order to deal with it, they have to make a break from Donald Trump. And at some point they need to be more concerned about their constituents than their own reelection prospects and what percentage of the MAGA base they may, you know, have to sacrifice if they stand up and do the right thing, fight for democracy and, you know, peaceful civil discourse, rather than just mindlessly continuing down, you know, this road that's being paved by Donald Trump.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah. And for the folks who were just tuning in just now, I typically go on at 4 o', clock, but we went on a little early today because of the breaking news that the CEO and co founder of the conservative group Turning Point usa, Charlie Kirk, he was shot at an event at a Utah Valley University. He was, he was shot in the neck and he's being treated and is in critical condition at the hospital right now. That, that's. According to the Associated Press. A suspect is in custody. According to that college. No information yet on the identity of that person. Somebody, one of the folks who is just chiming in on the chat here was just saying this is what kids go through on almost a daily basis in this country with all of the school shootings that we have. Harry. I mean, and, and I will say, and I'm not, again, as I was saying earlier in the earlier part of our coverage, I'm not trying to make any political hay out of this or score any political points or anything like that. That, that should be out the window, but Utah has a very permissive policy when it comes to carrying firearms. And so we'll just have to find out what the circumstances were that resulted in this person being able to bring a, a firearm, a gun into this kind of a situation. It looked as though to me in the video, we haven't looked at it in A while. But it looks to me in the video that this, this was fired from pretty long range. I mean, this was, this was not a close up type of event. This was somebody shooting from pretty. It, it seems to, it looks to me just on the surface, I have no idea if that's going to end up being the case, according to officials, but it looks like that is the case. You can see people kind of in this video looking to the side as if the shot came from maybe a rooftop or somewhere far away. Again, these are all things that I guess Glenn will come out in the investigation. Harry will. This will all come out in the investigation in like coming hours. Yeah.

[Harry Dunn]

And that's the thing. It's, it's, that's why right now the only thing we could. We need to be focused on is quelling this fire. This, this that's going on, this rage that a lot of people have. We have to qu. We, we'll deal with the investigation as we have the facts and everything. Like the shooter as reported in custody and you know, he should be held accountable, period. No if. Ands. No. Well, maybe he had. No, this is not okay under any circumstances. It's not okay. And like I said, we, everybody's right now needs to be focused on. Not like you said, revenge, tit for tat. Like, all right, it's our turn now. Like, we can't be keep going back and forth with this. Like, I don't care if the guy said, if the guy was a liberal, if the guy didn't vote at all, if he donated a million dollars. I don't care about none of that stuff. Yeah, because like I said, this is what people, we talk about preserving our democracy. But also being able to use your voice is part of being in a democracy.

[Jim Acosta]

And I will, I mean, I will say, I mean, this is just coming in. CBS News is reporting that at least three students were wounded in a shooting at a high school in the Denver metro area. Apparently this happened just afternoon at Evergreen High School in Colorado. The school is about 28 miles southwest of Denver. I mean, Olivia, again, I, you know, I'm just stating the facts. I'm just stating the reality of the situation. But we have these shooting events almost on a daily basis, basically on a weekly basis in this country. It is, this is America.

[Olivia Troy]

It is. And I have worked on the gun issue in the past, and it is a very challenging issue. And what I would implore is responsible gun owners to come to the table and be outspoken is what I would implore.

[Harry Dunn]

Correct.

[Olivia Troy]

Because I Think that those are the people that are going to change this and make a difference if they actually stand, take a stand. But look, I'm watching, I was looking online, I'm watching some of the rhetoric online, and it is ugly in response. It is, it is ugly. I mean, and it, and I think it just goes to show sort of the moment that we're, we're in. Yeah, it's pretty heinous right now.

[Harry Dunn]

A lot of people, though, Olivia, a lot of people though, you know, don't have the moral clarity or, you know, or even the empathy that, that would. I, I think that is necessary for a moment for us, not this moment, but just to overcome, to get through something like that. A lot of people don't like it. A lot of people do lack it, which I think it's very important. The people that do have that ability, people that can see through all the, the animosity while understanding why people feel that way. Like, let's, let's be clear. Let's understand why there is a lot of bad stuff, to put it, let's understand why that is. Because this person, Charlie Kirk, this father, this husband, inflames a lot of people with the words that he says. And I just keep going back to this, but like I said, words have consequences. You know, lose sponsorship, but that consequence should never be you fighting for your life in a hospital.

[Glenn Kirschner]

Yeah. And Harry, we get, we get to inflame with our words. Right. I think everybody would agree, you know, that God bless the First Amendment right, our free speech rights. We get to inflame. What we don't get to do is say things that are intended to, and likely to inspire imminent violence. But, you know, we have to tolerate inflammatory speech, speech that we hate. It does become challenging when, you know, we talk a lot about the creeping autocracy, the coming fascism, and we feel like our rights and our freedoms are under attack. And it's such a potent brew when you put all of that in the mix. But none of it can detract from the reality that we have to tolerate inflammatory speech and we have to meet it with well reasoned responses that are equally, you know, maybe inflammatory.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah.

[Glenn Kirschner]

But I wish both parties could come out, get together on the damn steps of the Capitol and say, enough of this now, Donald Trump, how would he react to that? My answer is, who gives a crap?

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah.

[Glenn Kirschner]

Stand up for the safety of the American people writ large, left, right, center and apolitical. Stand up for all of them. You know, every president, Jim, has tried to comfort the people in Times of crisis, like mass shootings. Well, the president's not going to do it. How about both parties get together and just try something different?

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah, you're absolutely right, Glenn. You hit the nail on the head. Therein lies the rub, I think, a little bit, because, I mean, Donald Trump is somebody who, he ridiculed Paul Pelosi when he was attacked by that deranged person in San Francisco. And you know, I do worry a little bit about what Trump is going to say in response to what has taken place in Utah. And it concerns me greatly that he is going to try to make political hay out of this when he himself incited political violence on January 6th. I mean, I'm just going to say that it needs to be. That's a fact. It's a fact, not a matter of opinion. He did that. And I just, he's not, Glenn, he's just not the leader that we need at this moment. And for all the stuff that was said about Joe Biden, I mean, this is, this is an area where Joe Biden excelled. He excelled at being the consoler in chief and trying to bring people together. And it's, I will say, I think that's what we need right now. I'm hopefully going to have Senator, former Senator Doug Jones join us in just a little bit here. He was previously scheduled to come on, but he, I just heard from his aide who said that he has been speaking out on political violence lately. But Glenn, you're absolutely right. We need people from both sides to sort of push Trump to the side a little bit and say you're not going to be relevant in the discussion if you can't be the grown up here. Like we need, we need that.

[Glenn Kirschner]

Yeah, Jim, you're dead right that Donald Trump is not the leader we need in, in this moment. I would argue in any moment, but particularly in this moment. The Democrats know that and are very vocal about it. The Republicans know it, but they won't say a word about it for fear of losing even a small fraction of Donald Trump's MAGA supporters. So, you know, but how about the Republicans at least take their cues from people like Adam Kinzinger and Liz Cheney who said, you know, yes, we are hardcore conservatives. That is our ideology. It's what we believe to our core. But what's more important than our reelection prospects is the health and viability of American democracy. How about some Republicans stand up, get together with the Democrats right now, I'd like to see all of them get together, go out on the steps and say Listen, enough with the political violence back and forth, you know.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah.

[Glenn Kirschner]

Will we see that happen, Jim? I wish I could say I was optimistic.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah. I mean, Gabby Giffords, she's weighed in on this. She, of course, was wounded in a shooting in 2011 in Arizona. Somebody had tried to assassinate her. And she says democratic societies will always have political disagreements. We must never allow America to become a country that confronts those disagreements with violence. And, Olivia, you know, this is not, this is, this is an area where Donald Trump has just never really risen to the moment.

[Olivia Troy]

No, I mean, he's failed repeatedly. And as someone who had to brief these people on horrible incidents like this one, like, such as us, like shootings or horrific tragedies and domestic attacks, he is fully aware of what is needed in the moment. And he, you know, he's told and his team knows. And I think, you know, we'll see what he does with this. My concern, like, lens, is that there's going to be some sort of reaction, and I hope not extreme overreaction. I mean, you know, I don't know how they're going to use this for their agenda and narratives, which is concerning to me. I don't know what's to come, but I don't know that he's capable of saying enough. And, and that's what is required right now. And I think it would be helpful if he could lead. I mean, I think he should lead the people to the steps of Capitol and bring the Republican Party with him. I think Johnson, the Speaker of the House, should be out there standing with Hakeem and saying that's what should be happening immediately. But I just, I, you know. Yeah, I know I'm cynical. I mean, we all are here.

[Harry Dunn]

Yeah.

[Glenn Kirschner]

Well, it should have, it should have happened when there was violence personally perpetrated against Democrats, too. Right. But here we all are trying to be the adults in the room and say, okay, listen, anytime is a good time to come together and denounce violence, and if this is what it takes for the right to, to care, let's take advantage, do it now.

[Olivia Troy]

Right.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah.

[Harry Dunn]

You know what's even more ironic about the Charlie Kirk is Charlie Kirk actually made. Makes, you know, living in a name for himself, going around debating people.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah.

[Harry Dunn]

Like he, he. It's a debate. It's a back and forth. He meets with people that he disagrees with and they have debates and that's how it should be. Like I said, I disagree everything that comes out of his mouth, but he meets the people and he challenges them and he debates Them, you know, but for this to go, it's so frustrating because it could be, who, who's next? That's, that's a real, that's a real question. Who's next? And nobody should have to have fear to, to being next by having an opinion, even an inflammatory one. You know, it baffles me and it makes me angry because like you said, Jim, this is our country. This is our country, and no matter how we can't sugarcoat it, we can't wish it away. This is where we are as a country, and it sucks, but we can't get used to being here.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah, no, you're absolutely right, Harry. And I think you guys are all hitting the right points on this. But, Olivia, you know, this is going to be, this is a scary moment for the country because, you know, as Harry is signaling, I mean, we just don't know what's next. We don't know what's next. You know, is it, is it safe for people to go and do these kinds of events moving forward? I was just looking at the NBC News website, and they were saying that there were bystanders who were saying this. And of course, this is early on, and we have to caution everybody when it's early on, you just don't know what the facts are going to be now versus 10 days from now. But apparently a bystander told NBC and they're reporting that this, there was not much security at this event for Charlie Kirk. And you know, these universities that have these kinds of events, they have to, I mean, we've all done these events where the, there's either a retired police officer or they bring in the local police to provide extra security to the campus police. And I, you know, this is, this is a new dimension in all of this because of this threat that is now going to be looming. I mean, anybody who has an event like this moving forward, they're going to have to be planning for this possibility.

[Olivia Troy]

Yeah, well, the truth be told is that I actually hire personal security when I go to some of these events. Harry Dunn knows that when I speak at it and it comes out of pocket and I just know the risk. And so I, I think it's awful. And I do think that it's something that we're going to be grappling with more and more and more. And I, you know, and again, I, I hate that that is, that is what it is right now, you know, and, you know, yes, I mean, you're correct. I mean, Charlie Kirk has, has said some pretty horrific things. Along the way, he certainly made me angry. I refused to, to debate with him when he asked. I just wasn't going to entertain it with him. Kudos to others who have. But I, but again, I don't think that this is the answer and the response to that because it could be, you know, anyone out there and we've seen this happen with political leaders and, and the response to it.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah. And I mean, and we, and we should point out, I don't want to overlook this, that what happened in Colorado earlier today is also extremely important. There was yet another school shooting here in this country at Evergreen High School in Colorado. Three students were hurt. The first responders are not certain how many shooters. And according to CBS News, this is reported at 4:16pm it is still an active scene. Authorities are asking those with students at the school not to go directly to the school at this time. A nearby elementary school was placed on lockdown about an hour or so after this took place. And the public information officer with the Jefferson County Sheriff's officer said during a press conference, we're not certain how many shooters we have or where that shooter might be. And so Glenn, I mean, I think you might have joined after we were having this discussion, but oh, and I want to thank Senator Doug, former Senator Doug Jones for joining us too. Senator Jones, thanks for jumping on. Really appreciate, I'll go to you, I was going to go to Glenn, but I'll go to you. Senator, your thoughts on what's taking place in Utah right now. We should note there is a, an active investigation into a school shooting in Colorado. This is America in 2025.

[Senator Doug Jones]

You nailed it, Jim. It is America in 2025. We're just seem to be getting numb to this kind of violence. And it's, and it's on both sides of the aisle. It's not like, you know, we're seeing this just from one side. This is something that the rhetoric that we have seen in public officials over the last few years has really, I think, numb people to the fact that they somewhat expect. It's horrible. I mean, it's just unbelievable that we're in this country now. It's not like the United States has never seen political violence before. We've lived through a time where there was significant political violence. It just seems, and maybe it's in part because it's so easily seen on our phones and our computers and iPads and all these days, but it just seems to me like there is such animosity in this country where divisions in this country have moved from partisanship to contempt into so many instances, hate. And that's not good. And I'm not just talking about the president calling immigrants by names. I'm talking about just the division among people that they, there's just a sense here of hate that is just, I think, so prevalent in America. It just, it just numbs people to violence. And they expect it.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah. And Senator, one of your aides said that you've been speaking about this just recently. What do you tell folks when they ask about this? Because I will tell you, when I talk to folks, especially young students these days, they are intensely worried about political polarization in America. It's totally out of control. And especially among gen zers, they're very worried about this. But what's your message these days?

[Senator Doug Jones]

You know, look, my message is, unfortunately, we don't have a lot of folks in positions of, of office, either candidates or public officials, that will tone down their rhetoric. You know, Jim, I grew up, you know, I was young, just a kid during the Jim Crow era, okay. Unfortunately, saw so many of the good changes that took place. But it took a lot of violence. It took four kids getting killed in a church bombing. It took Emmett Till getting killed. It could Medgar Evers getting shot in the back on his front porch, in front, you know, with his kids after he was coming home one night. It took a lot of things like that. And I don't think people realize that when you have this kind of rhetoric that that demeans people, that, that, that talks about people as if they are the enemy. People hear things different ways. It's not, you know, they, they hear messages that maybe not intended, but people, you know, what I tell folks all the time is think about what you're saying. Think about, think in the worst way. How is somebody going to hear this? How are some, what are they going to take away from this? Are they going to take away that this is just politics. Not everyone will. Somebody's going to take it away. I guarantee you, Jim, that church bombing I referred to a minute ago was caused by. There were Klansmen in Birmingham, Alabama that heard George Wallace and Bull Connor essentially say it's okay. And we've got to tone down rhetoric. We've just got to tone down the rhetoric.

[Jim Acosta]

And nobody wants to make political hay out of this or whatever. But we were having the discussion earlier, Senator. I mean, when you have Donald Trump out there making light of what happened to Paul Pelosi, that is not helpful. I mean, he whipped up, you know, his own base to attack the Capitol on January 6th. I mean, that's, that's not an opinion. That's, that's what happened. He did that. And so he's just, it seems to me, I'm very worried about what he's going to say in response to what's taken place with Charlie Kirk and how he may politicize this. I hope there's some, something deep down inside of him that makes him not want to do that. I just worry that that's not going to happen.

[Senator Doug Jones]

But you never know. I mean, with, with him, you just never know. And let's just hope for the best right now that this, you know, look, we, we, we've seen this. We saw what happened to Steve Scalise at the baseball practice years ago. We've seen that. We've seen what happened in Minnesota recently. At some point, at some point, you would think that people could come together, Republicans standing side by side with Democrats and say, enough of this, folks. Okay, let's fight this out on the floor of the US Senate. Let's fight this out on the floor of the House and then across the state legislators and in campaigns, but let's do, don't resort to this kind of violence. This is not what we mean. This is not what we talk about. And we should come together as Americans to stop this as soon as possible. What happened, it's just horrific. It is horrific what happened to Charlie today.

[Jim Acosta]

But, Senator, I mean, one of the things that you didn't have to deal with when you were growing up in Birmingham, Alabama, and part of your Senate career is the way things are whipped up on social media these days. I don't know how that is how we solve that.

[Senator Doug Jones]

No, that you're, you're absolutely right about that. I think that that is totally exacerbated the problem. If you just look online today after the shooting, you can see an examples of that. And it's just sickening. It's just, it's just really sickening. And you know, Jim, back When I was U.S. attorney, I used to give talks about, and this was in the early days of chat rooms on AOL and those kind of things. And I used to get talked to the, to the parent groups about watching their kids and not letting them in there and the, the predators that are out there but now. And one of the things I would say is that the Internet has fostered what you would say and do to somebody's face. You would never say and do the things to somebody's face.

[Harry Dunn]

That's right.

[Senator Doug Jones]

See people typing out now and that's the other thing. We just haven't learned to use the Internet the way and to, and to have the restraint that I think is. Is required.

[Jim Acosta]

Well, this is what worries me. I mean, and I. We can show this to our viewers right now. And I just double check this. Olivia, thank you for flagging this. Elon Musk apparently tweeted this just a short time ago. The left is the party of murder.

[Olivia Troy]

Now. This is exactly, this is exactly what I thought would stir up. And here we are. I mean, exactly. This is not. This is not constructive nor helpful at all.

[Jim Acosta]

This is a powder keg that we're sitting on right now.

[Olivia Troy]

Yeah. And with. By Elon Musk posting this, a guy, a man who has over 200 million followers.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah. This has been viewed 11 million times just in the last 58 minutes, according to his own site, if you want to believe the data there. But I mean, Senator, I mean, just to the point that we were just talking about, you have bad faith. People like Elon Musk, I don't know where his interests are, but are they, are they the best interests of the American people? Whipping people up right after something like this happens?

[Senator Doug Jones]

No, it is not. No one can say that it is. No one can look at that objectively and say that that's in the best interest of the American people.

[Jim Acosta]

Not.

[Senator Doug Jones]

Not at all. But that's just typical of Musk who, who shoots off his mouse mouth before he thinks. But. And really doesn't care. What, what you worry about with something like that is the folks that are on the other side thinking, okay, we're gonna have to, we're gonna have to fight fire with fire. We're gonna have to go to war on this and that. There are those people out there. I guarantee you there are those people out there. And it's incumbent upon people like the President, United States to say, no, no, this is not how we are supposed to be doing things in this country. This is wrong. You know, you didn't see, you did not see after, after any of the murders in Minnesota. You didn't see a single Democrat going on, on there and saying, oh my God, this is the far right this and the far right that. Having said that, Jim, I do think that there have been folks on the left and Democrats that have come perilously close to saying some things that they shouldn't say about the maga. Right. I really do believe that because not everybody in the MAGA movement is a cold blooded killer.

[Jim Acosta]

Right. No, I agree with you on that. There's no Question. I do wonder, Senator, when you talk to, when you talk to your colleagues behind the scenes privately, here it is again. We're showing the video here. It's just absolutely appalling. What took place. Do some of them acknowledge privately, quietly, gosh, we wish Donald Trump could just not be this kind of a person who inflames this stuff in this country.

[Senator Doug Jones]

They've been saying that since he came down the escalator, you know, 10 years ago now or however long it it's been. But, but look, you know, you say what you need to, but the fact is he's got a grip and folks are afraid to speak out. It's time that people speak out, not just on, on that side. It's time that everybody speak out. Not just to condemn violence, Jim, that's, and I know folks instinctively agree with this, but people, it's one thing to condemn violence. That's the easy part. To condemn violence. It's another part to speak out against political, violent rhetoric and to say, tone it down and to say to people within your own party, if you hear it, to say, no, no, no, just tone that down. That's not what you really mean.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, Harry Dunn, I mean, that's not the hot take. The hot take is to go after your political enemies and think of them as your enemies and continue to throw gasoline on the problem. And, and this just gets worse and worse. And, and the Capitol Police officers, the police officers who responded to what took place on January 6th, they know this.

[Harry Dunn]

Yeah.

[Jim Acosta]

They saw this. Yeah.

[Harry Dunn]

I, I can appreciate what the senator has said. But, but like I said earlier, Jim, a lot of people that the outrage, these comments that we're seeing don't possess the empathy or, or the, the moral clarity to be able to speak, to call this out for what it was, a politically motivated attack that should never happen, no matter who it is, no matter their ideology, no matter the side of the aisle. So while many people fail to possess the ability to do that, it's a, it's imperative that our elected officials are, people with platforms are getting out there and speaking again about it. Olivia said that, you know, when she even made a statement, people or in the comments, you know, attacking her for calling this bad. And, you know, we shouldn't, he shouldn't face that like somebody being shot and murdered, like, or, excuse me, I, I take that back. We're not jumping to conclusion, I don't know, because we just say is critical condition right now. But for anybody to be shot, well, you can use the situation In Minnesota, the, the Melissa Horman was assassinated. That should not happen. And the people with voices, with platforms, who people listen to, who people, you know, follow, like individuals like Charlie Kirk, we should be able to condemn bad things when they happen and call them out. And I would love to see that. When you said that Mike Johnson and Hakeem Jeffries right on the steps of the Capitol, that would be incredible to just meet this moment. Throw the damn politics out the window and let's call, don't wait for Trump, just do it. You don't have to, you don't need, you don't need marching orders on this. Like, nobody should have to be like, all right, let me see what the DNC is going to say so I can gather my thoughts. Let me see what the rnc, Let me see what Trump. It shouldn't matter. Like, take your cues from a moral, empathetic standpoint and call this, this is bad, this is wrong.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah. It's about our better angels. Glenn Kershner. Yeah.

[Glenn Kirschner]

And I would ask the senator, I mean, do you think there is any hope of, as we were discussing before you came on, the Republicans and the Democrats getting together en masse and walking out on the steps of the Capitol and denouncing this and urging people to, you know, ratchet back the rhetoric? You know, part of my concern is will the Republican Party ever speak out against Congress gun violence for fear of losing NRA money? Will they ever speak out against violence perpetrated against a Republican for fear that they're going to alienate some of, well, Donald Trump first and foremost and some of his base? Do you have any realistic hope, expectation that we can get a figurative joining of the political hands and, you know, trying to attack the ever increasing violent rhetoric?

[Senator Doug Jones]

Yeah, you know, Glenn, that's a, it's a really good question. And I'm gonna, I'm gonna say, yes, I do have that hope. But, but I think people have to recognize and understand. Let's take this a step at a time. If Hakeem Jeffries and Mike Johnson get out there, let's just denounce violence and political rhetoric without giving a ton of examples, without going into gun violence, without, let's find some common ground that we can join hands on and talk about that'll get the public's attention. And then from there, maybe that fosters the kind of dialogue that's needed to talk about other forms of violence, mass shootings, gun violence, suicides, you name it. But we need to start somewhere. This is a perfect. I thought Minnesota was the Perfect example as well, because this is, this goes a lot deeper. I mean, look, and you guys know this as well as anybody, just what's flying under the radar a lot are just the incredible number of threats that members of Congress are getting, that the judiciary is getting, that governors are getting. You know, that often doesn't translate into action, but who knows when it will? But that those are on the rise. Jim, when I, when I prosecuted those church bombers, I didn't get a single threat. When I prosecuted or led the investigation of Eric Robert Rudolph, we didn't get a single threat. Ask Olivia how many she got with just speaking out the truth. Okay.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah.

[Senator Doug Jones]

And, and, and so we've, it goes beyond just the acts of violence and just the rhetoric. We've got to get people to settle down a little bit and we got to start making examples of some folks who threaten people. We've got to start doing a little bit better job. I think there too.

[Jim Acosta]

I think you're right. And one thing we should note, I mean, I'm just going through and seeing what kind of developments we can report out there. Tom Winter with NBC News. Very good. Law enforcement correspondent there is now reporting and again, facts right now can be different. 10 hours from now, 10 days from now, he is reporting that a university spokesperson now says there is no suspect in custody in connection with the shooting of Charlie Kirk. I repeat, that is what Tom Winter at NBC News is reporting right now. Very disturbing, if that is the case.

[Senator Doug Jones]

Not only disturbing, a little bit surprising. Unless that was some like super high powered long rifle or something. And I don't want to speculate on that because I got the impression early on that this one, God, they had him down.

[Jim Acosta]

That they, you know, that's right. There was video of a guy who's on the ground. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Senator Doug Jones]

So that's, you know, we'll, I, look, we have to wait. So there's so much that is to be learned about this.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah, no question about it. Well, Senator, I don't want to take up too much of your time, but really appreciate your time and your leadership on this. Yeah, you know, we, we need this kind of dialogue, you know, where folks are encouraged to try to find some common ground. It sounds ludicrous to even say it that we could find common ground these days, but maybe we're going to be forced into that position. I don't know.

[Senator Doug Jones]

I hope so. And to Glenn, to Glenn's point, let's just, let's find something. Let's find something. I'm going to tell you If I, if I was in the Congress today or if I was in the Senate today, I would be making a beeline over to one of my Republicans, Republican colleagues and saying, okay, you were just called on to give thoughts and prayers when the folks in Minnesota were killed. I'll go with you now and do more, I will go with you now and do more to talk about this so that the next time I want you to come with me and we can start this process of trying to ratchet down all the rhetoric and the violence. I hope that that's going on in the halls of Congress right now.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah. Because we're at a crisis point right now, it seems to me. And when you have people like Elon Musk, which may be signaling what Donald Trump is going to do, I don't know, who knows? But if, if they feel like they're getting some kind of a social media dopamine hit off of saying that, you know, the left is, this is, this is the left, the left is a party of violence or whatever they're saying right now. It's just absolutely sickening that that kind of rhetoric is, is flying around out there. But, you know, something has to give. It seems to me we can't just be at each other's throats. We, where does it go? It just gets worse and worse.

[Senator Doug Jones]

It does and something will happen. So thanks, thanks for having me, Jim. I really appreciate it. And look, let me say it's great to be on with another, with a hero, Harry Dunn, and always great to be on with Olivia and Glenn. So, so absolutely great lineup. Have me back with you guys anytime.

[Harry Dunn]

Would love to do that, Senator.

[Jim Acosta]

Thanks a lot, Appreciate it. No, we'll do it. Thank you, Senator. All right. Senator Doug Jones. Olivia, if only we had that kind of, I mean it, it seems old.

[Olivia Troy]

Fashioned, that's all I kept thinking, I was like, why is he still there?

[Jim Acosta]

I've been transported back to the 90s or maybe the 80s or something, you know.

[Harry Dunn]

Well, you were saying, why isn't he there? I was thinking he said if I was there. Well, that's probably why he isn't there, because he would do something reasonable and responsible and necessary. That's probably why he isn't there. Unfortunately.

[Jim Acosta]

I do worry, Glenn, that, that Elon Musk is inciting things.

[Glenn Kirschner]

Of course he is. But you know what? He is not a serious person. This is the guy who not too long ago posted Donald Trump's in the Epstein files. Have a nice day. I mean, I hope that people won't gravitate back to him now because he happens to be spewing out the hateful rhetoric that maybe they identify with politically. But he's not a serious person. He is not coming from a place where he has the best interest of the American people or the viability of American democracy at heart. So let's hope that people will just ignore him and let him crawl back, you know, from. From the. Under the rock from which he came.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah. And now the Associated Press is saying as well that it may have been incorrect initially that the person taken into custody after Charlie Kirk was shot in Utah is not believed to be the shooting suspect. This is according to a source speaking with the Associated Press. And so I, you know, I've covered these kinds of things live on my other place before doing this. And one of the things that I learned is, is that those little tidbits of information that come in, you have to understand facts can change over time as these. As the investigation develops. But, guys, thank you so much. Really appreciate you all jumping in. I know it's a breaking news situation and it takes great patience sometimes to listen to somebody else talk when you got five people going. But Senator Jones, I thought, was speaking a lot of truth to power there, Harry. I mean, you know, that's the country we all want, right? Yeah, we get that.

[Harry Dunn]

That's what. That's exactly what we want for being able to use our voice and not have to hire private security like Olivia does or like anybody. I always call Olivia my security guard when we go out together because Olivia's a fighter and I love her to death.

[Jim Acosta]

So, yeah, nobody messes with Olivia. But Olivia, final, final thought from you. Maybe. Can I hire you? Is that true? That maybe.

[Olivia Troy]

I am pretty scrappy and I'm not gonna let anyone near you. So there is that. I would definitely go down swinging for any one of you on here. So just know that.

[Jim Acosta]

Same same. Any final thoughts from you, Glenn, on this? I mean, this is. This is very worrisome stuff here. Yeah.

[Glenn Kirschner]

I would again challenge both political parties to step up and to. To try to do whatever you can do to lower the temperature in America, understanding that that might get misplease Donald Trump, but at some point, just care about at least your own constituents, not your own sort of political viability and your next reelection campaign. Care about your constituents, care about America, care about the health and viability of our democracy.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah. Well, guys, I can't think of a better crew to be with covering this. Appreciate it. Thanks for jumping on. You guys all have important voices we need to hear from them right now. Thanks for doing it and we'll, we'll talk soon. You guys hang in there. Really appreciate it. Harry, Olivia Glenn, Senator Jones, appreciate all their time, folks. Just to reiterate, I mean, we could stay on and on and on and on and on, but you know, if, if things develop, maybe we'll jump back on later. But, you know, the latest is, is that Charlie Kirk is recovering. He's being treated. He's apparently in critical condition. Apparently there was, there was social media video of a suspect taken into custody. That apparently is not the case, according to NBC and the Associated Press. And so we're going to have to wait and see as the hours go on how all of this develops. But I, I, I will just say, and I know people will say, oh, thoughts and prayers. You shouldn't say thoughts and prayers and so on. And again, there's the other Chiron that I should note. Separate school shooting going on in Ever Evergreen, Colorado, at least three injured there. We should be thinking about that community, too. Again, another school shooting happening in this country. What is happening in America right now? We're coming unglued where you have acts of political violence carried out with a firearm on the same day as a school shooting. This is not the country we want to hand off to our, our kids and our grandkids. But as I was saying just a few moments ago, I know, you know, folks say, oh, you shouldn't say thoughts and prayers and stuff like that. But I am thinking about Charlie Kirk and I am thinking about his family and I am praying that he pulls through. And I am thinking about that community in Colorado and I am praying that that community pulls through. But we need to do more. We need to do more to the point that everybody makes that, that thoughts and prayers are not enough. We need to lower the political rhetoric in this country. And it starts with the president of the United States. And Elon Musk can go out there on social media and say that the left is the party of murder or whatever. He is saying just absolutely appalling stuff. But Donald Trump should not go down this road and echo this rhetoric. He should not go down this road and echo this rhetoric. This is a time to appeal to our better angels. And one of the things that I talk about, I say it on this show from time to time. I say it out in front of groups from time to time. I'll say it right now. I have hope for this country. I am optimistic about this country. I see good in my fellow Americans, whether they be Democrat Republican or whatever. And I don't think this is who we are. We are not at our best right now. There's no question about it. We are intensely polarized right now that that much is true. I will not sit here and say each side carries an equal amount of blame in all of this. I don't think that that's the case at all. When you have the President of the United States out there in front of groups of people ridiculing Paul Pelosi and so on. Obviously he is a terrible messenger when it comes to bringing this country together. But there are leaders out there who are, who are effective at this and we need to be listening to those leaders right now. People like Barack Obama, people like Joe Biden, people like the late John McCain. He was so good at this. There are members of the Republican Party who are very good at this. Mitt Romney. I was with Mitt Romney when He lost in 2012 and he delivered a very gracious agreement acceptance piece. They are good people of all stripes and categories in this country and, and maybe the President of the United States is not the best person to lead us through this moment. But we're going to have to lean on one another if we're going to get through these next three years. And it seems to me that despite what you think about Charlie Kirk, he has a lot of, he, he has a lot of opinions that I don't agree with. But one thing I do agree with and, and Harry Dunn talked about this earlier is that he's a guy who likes to go to college campuses and talk to kids and exchange ideas. Now you may say he doesn't do it in a good faith way and, and I may agree with that. But we need to get back to a place where we can have these kinds of discussions peacefully, non, violently. That's who we are. That's that, that's what, that is what makes America great. That's, that's why America is America. We've been able to pull this off for 250 years with some exceptions obviously, but we've been, we've been able to get to this place in this moment by not resorting to political violence. Because if we resort to political violence, it is, it is going to take us down a very dark road. And I just saw some news flash on my screen that I hope is not true. The Associated Press I, I want to make sure that I have this right, I want to make sure I have this right before I say this. I just saw an alert on my screen and I just want to make sure. Folks, before we go any further, just stand by, if you don't mind. I just saw this alert on my screen. I want to make sure that this is accurate before I say it. Thanks for hanging on as I'm taking a beat here. All right, folks, according to NBC News, Trump has said that Charlie Kirk has died. NBC News is reporting. This is the breaking news and I'm just going to relay it right here. Our understanding is, is that he died, that Charlie Kirk has died. This is according to President Trump, who said this on Truth Social just a few moments ago. He says the great and even legendary Charlie Kirk is dead. No one understood or had the heart of the youth in the United States of America better than Charlie. This is according to a Truth social post from 4:40pm just 7 minutes ago. The networks are reporting now that that is the case, that Charlie Kirk, the conservative activist, he was the founder of Turning Point usa. He was giving a talk earlier today at Utah Valley University in Utah. And this is just coming in now at this moment. Donald Trump, who obviously, I would assume has access to the latest information from authorities on the scene and here in Washington, he is saying that Charlie Kirk has died from that shooting. Very sad news, as we were just saying a few moments ago, the Associated Press was reporting that he was in critical condition, which is obviously not a good sign that he was hospitalized in critical condition. And now the word is coming down from Trump himself that, that Kirk has died after that shooting. Father, husband and somebody who is obviously very passionate about expressing his ideas and getting involved in an exchange of ideas. He has. He has died from the shooting, it appears at this event in Utah, on this college campus in Utah earlier today. I also say right now that this is. This is painful for me to absorb in this moment. It's painful for me to absorb in this moment that. That Charlie Kirk has. Has died after the shooting in Utah. Folks, this is not a time for politics. This is not a time for scoring points. This is a time for deep reflection in this country. It is a time for deep reflection in this country. We cannot have a situation in America where political violence is tolerated. It is just going to take us down a terrible, terrible road. And I fear that we are now heading down that road. We are on that road. And before we get too much farther down that road, we need to turn around and head back. We need to listen to our better angels. We cannot succumb to this. If we succumb to this and it becomes a tit for tat situation, the consequences could be very severe for America. My friend Olivia Troy, I understand is, is getting back on. I'll go to her in just a moment. But that is the news coming in right now. According to Donald Trump himself, he put out the message on Truth Social that Charlie Kirk has died. He went on to say he was loved and admired by all, especially me. And now he is no longer with us, Melania. And my sympathies go out to his beautiful wife Erica and family. Charlie, we love you. I have to say, I am, I am speechless. I am at a loss for words in this moment. It is devastating. And as we were reporting just in the last several minutes when I had Olivia and Harry and Glenn on is according, and this was according to Tom Winter with NBC. He was reporting just a short time ago that, that apparently they don't have a suspect in custody out in Utah. And which, which I obviously flies in the face with what many of us saw earlier on in the afternoon, there was social media video that indicated that they had a suspect on the ground, although it may have just been somebody that they had on the ground who was looking like a suspect. And according to the law enforcement officials who were speaking with several news outlets right now, apparently they don't have a suspect. So that makes this even more scary. And Olivia's back. Olivia, you know, I, this is what you and I were worried about. The entire time we were talking. It was in the back of our minds that, that Charlie Kirk was not going to survive this. And now we're, we're on the road that we were all worried about heading down. We're now down this road. And you have to wonder how, how much farther down the road of political violence we're going to succumb to after this devastating news. Terrible news.

[Olivia Troy]

Yeah, this is, yeah, it's awful. And like, I, we've, we've had our differences with Charlie Kirk, but I, you know, I'm devastated for his family. And I think, you know, I'm very concerned about just what is going to happen in the aftermath here because, you know, you may disagree with Charlie Kirk's proselytes. He does, you know, he has said a lot of extreme things along the way. I mean, but I will say that, you know, he was a significant figure and then conservative movement, a significant figure in Republican politics and in campaigns and certainly in those circles. And he was pretty popular on a lot of these college campuses where he would draw big audiences. And so I think this is a really awful situation here. It's an awful situation for Our politics and where we are as a country right now. I think that the significance of it, just what we've seen when political leaders have been killed, and I worry about what is to come in terms of how conservative figures and the reaction from the right on this situation is what really worries me, Jen, is how this is going to play out.

[Jim Acosta]

And I mean, and I, I guess maybe I'm stating the obvious here, but he, he was a major figure in maga. Yes, there's no question.

[Olivia Troy]

Absolutely.

[Jim Acosta]

And he was kind of this, this young activist who made a name for himself by being, I guess, one of Donald Trump's most ardent supporters. Young supporters. And he turned, I, I don't want to, this has no negative connotation when I say this whatsoever, but he, he sort of turned this into a bit of a cottage industry for himself and that he, he propped up this whole organization that was all about mobilizing young conservatives and he was highly successful. I mean, that's just stating, stating the reality of the situation. It's something that, you know, folks on the left might want to take a look at in terms of what he was able to accomplish. But there's no, there's no, I mean, there might have been times, maybe when you were at the, at the White House when he was there, they would have these influencer events all the time. Trump would have them. And I, I seem to remember him being there during the first term from time to time. And so he was very important to Donald Trump's rise, for sure.

[Olivia Troy]

And he played a significant role in the 2024 election. I mean, he was a critical player in that, he was a critical player in recruiting younger voters to the movement. He certainly was known for that. And that is why I say I'm worried about what the movement is going to take away from this and how they're going to react. And I hope that, that is why, as we were talking about this a little earlier, I hope that there will be some leaders from the right that are going to stand up and really address violent rhetoric and political violence and what's happened here in a manner that's going to bring people together and not create further anger and division, because I'm concerned at what that's going to lead to.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah, no, And I, and I think that I, you know, we've all been concerned about right wing extremism.

[Olivia Troy]

Yes.

[Jim Acosta]

And folks on the right are going to say, okay, well, now look at what's happening on the other side of the equation. And I, I mean, you know, okay, I, we We need to look at that. There's no question about it. And it needs to be said that political violence does not have a place in this country. Just because one side doesn't mean, doesn't mean your side, does it. Because if we do that, we, we just gonna, we're just gonna spiral as a country.

[Olivia Troy]

Yeah, you know, I, I, I'm tracking things online, as you can imagine. I'm seeing some rhetoric, some people are saying, you know, it's go time. Things like that are very concerning. I, you know, we should take these things very seriously. And, you know, I don't, you know, I think this is a moment for true leadership, which, you know, I'm concerned at the lack of possibly that in this moment that this country really greatly needs.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah, no, and, and I, you know, and we're running through some of the tidbits of information out there for folks who are just tuning in. We all saw this social media video of what looked like somebody on the ground, a suspect on the ground. Now, now we're being told by AP and NBC that, that they may not have a suspect in custody, which means that the situation in Utah is much more terrifying than we originally thought. Because when, if you have a suspect in custody, obviously it means that the situation has ended as far as that is concerned. But if there's, if there's somebody on the loose, I mean, that, that is not, that is not, that is not a good part of this story. And again, multiple reports that Charlie Kirk has died. Trump has gone out there, put out a social media post. I guess we're still waiting to see if the authorities are going to have a news conference or say something down over there in Utah because we still don't know how this happened.

[Senator Doug Jones]

Right.

[Jim Acosta]

I mean, we were talking about this a little bit earlier with Doug Jones. We're not sure if this was, it does not look to be at close range. It looks to be some, somebody perhaps from a long range did this. Like a sniper, perhaps. I, I don't know. The video seems to indicate that there are folks on, on rooftops looking off to the side. The other thing, Olivia, that you can see in this video, Charlie Kirk used to draw a very big crowd when he would do these events. Yeah.

[Olivia Troy]

Yes.

[Jim Acosta]

Look at that. Look at that crown he drew. Huge.

[Olivia Troy]

Yes. And he's done that set, you know, throughout the past couple of years. You know, he has drawn that crowd. And, and that's why that, that is my concern about this happening and what, you know, younger generations are seeing here, because he was sort of a pinnacle leader in that movement to them. And so I'm just, you know, I'm, you know, I'm sure that, you know, time will tell on the reaction of this in the immediacy, but I, but, yeah, this is just a horrible day.

[Jim Acosta]

Horrible day. And I will say that, I mean, a few moments ago when I, when I saw the alert and I almost wanted to think, because I've seen this before, seen this movie before, news organizations in the rush to get things out, they can be incorrect. And I will say it took me a few moments to really, I, I wanted to make sure that this was absolutely correct. And I assume that, that Trump would know. He would not put this out there without knowing. And now we're, now we're waiting for, I guess, some kind of official confirmation maybe from the, the group itself. It sounds as though he, he was shot in a way that he just was not able to recover. I mean, you can see in that video where he kind of slumps over, but it, yeah, it takes your breath away.

[Olivia Troy]

Graphic.

[Jim Acosta]

It takes your breath away taking in all this information, absorbing this information.

[Olivia Troy]

Yeah. And there's reports, I guess, that there are a few outlets saying that it seems that they are expecting that the person or the shooter was about 200 yards away. That's a significant distance.

[Jim Acosta]

That is a significant distance. Which means that this person had, I mean, for, I mean, I'm going to make a safe assumption here, I could be wrong, but this person probably had some sort of sniper rifle and probably some firearms aptitude to be able to pull off something like that. 200 yards, two football fields. That is far.

[Olivia Troy]

Yeah, that is far.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah. Yeah. And this is according to NBC. They are reporting that they heard from an eyewitness that people did not have to go through security to get in. The event required a ticket with a scannable code. But this eyewitness told NBC that he didn't need it to get into the amphitheater where Kirk was speaking. I guess it's not really, it was sort of an outdoor plaza type of area. But this is going to, again, bring back calls for, you know, greater security measures being taken for these types of events. When political leaders go on campuses because of this potential.

[Olivia Troy]

Yeah. And it's something that I think we are going to keep grappling with in terms of security measures for the attendees and the people on the stage. And it's something that we should take seriously, considering that this is, you know, on the increase and on the rise. And it is, you know, it is, it is a ongoing challenge and consideration with this. And, you know, I've, I've certainly spoken at universities and I have, you know, I have made it a point to ask what the, what the measures are. And, you know, and you hate to be that person where you're like, well, can we. Will there be screening, Will there be screening for weapons? What is the situation there? But I think it's, you know, it's just a sign of the times right now of where we are. And I think it's important to take these measures. And I think, you know, I think going forward and events like this, and I think that's something that I think we are going to continue to see, you know, public events and arenas and everything, kind of figure out how they handle these types of things.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah. And as we were saying earlier, I mean, this is a big moment for political leaders in this country who have the ability to either contain, obviously the heart, the, the emotions of this situation, or inflame them. And Kamala Harris put out a statement earlier saying political violence has no place in America. I mean, many others have done this. That is what we need to be hearing right now. Unfortunately, as you pointed out. Kudos to you. Elon Musk is on social media, is on his site X saying that the left is the party of murder. I mean, that is exactly the wrong message.

[Olivia Troy]

That's the wrong takeaway from this moment. And it's absolutely not helpful to be. And he's also promoting this other person's information and that person, actually. And the rest of that social media post goes into the fact that there was the assassination attempt and then there was like the CEO. I mean, he has all this explanation and he basically says, you know, the left is violent. And then Elon Musk amplifies it. And so, yeah, I think that's not the, that's not the takeaway right now. And that's also irresponsible leadership. I would say when you have a platform that's a large. You're on the social media platform that you own and this is what you are spreading, which is just going to, you know, rile up the base, antagonize people and create additional hate. And, you know, we were talking about this a little while ago. I think, you know, my concern is the types of response to this action, the potential for escalating violence and retaliation. You know, we don't know. We don't know who the shooter is. We know nothing about what's, you know, confirmation of how it was carried out in motives. We don't know Whether they acted alone, we know none of that. Still, we have no idea what connections they have, who they're connected to, whether they acted alone, whether there were others there. That is all going to come out in due time. When we do find out who this individual is and they have him in custody, hopefully, hopefully, soon. Hopefully he's not a danger to others right now, but I think that is going to be very telling as well.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah. And the Associated Press has already put out a, an obituary on Charlie Kirk, and I'll read part of it. It's. It's very sad to think about this, but they have already written this. Charlie Kirk, who rose from a teenage conservative campus activist to a top podcaster, culture warrior, and ally. President Donald Trump was shot and killed Wednesday during one of his trademark public appearances at a college in Utah. He was 31 years old. Kirk died doing what made him a potent political force rallying the right on a college campus, this time, Utah Valley University. His shooting is one of an escalating number of attacks on political figures, from the assassination of a Democratic state lawmaker and her husband in Minnesota to last summer shooting of Trump, that have roiled the nation. And we are a nation that is roiled right now, Olivia. That states it.

[Olivia Troy]

Yes, it does. And I think depending on the responses and reactions we see will really, I think, set the tone for what is to come.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah, there's no question about it. Well, Olivia, thanks for jumping back on. I appreciate it.

[Olivia Troy]

Stay safe.

[Jim Acosta]

Terrible news. Stay safe.

[Olivia Troy]

I did think of you.

[Jim Acosta]

Oh, thank you. And you as well. I mean, I will say that is the thing that I'm worried about in this moment right now is that there's now the potential for tit. For tat.

[Olivia Troy]

Yes.

[Jim Acosta]

And as I was. I was saying as I let everybody go earlier and I was starting to sign off, I really see this as a moment for deep reflection in this country. And I know we're not really a country that's doing a lot of deep reflecting these days, but this is a moment for deep reflection. Because if we get into a cycle of tit for tat, retaliatory violence, we're going to be sliding into an abyss that we're going to find it very difficult to get out of. And other societies around the world have gone through these types of episodes, dark episodes, and we can't let that happen to this country. And it goes back to what Doug Jones was saying earlier. The rhetoric. And this viewer is highlighting this. The rhetoric needs to be toned down. Has to be toned down.

[Glenn Kirschner]

Yeah, yeah.

[Olivia Troy]

And I think when you have a large platform and when you are, when you are seen as a leader in advocating for a cause, I think you have a responsibility to play a role, especially right now, in tapping this down.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah. Thanks, Olivia. All right, we'll keep talking. Appreciate it. Thanks.

[Olivia Troy]

Take care.

[Jim Acosta]

You, too. You, too. You be safe as well. Birder, right. Viewer comment right there puts it perfectly. Murder is not the answer, folks. Murder is not the answer. Is not the answer. A young man's life was taken away. He's just 31 years old, Charlie Kirk. And as we were saying, we were talking about this earlier, obviously he had very pointed views, and they're not views that perhaps I shared or Olivia shared or others on this program shared, but they were his views, and he, as an American citizen, had the right to express them. And unfortunately, what we're reporting on this evening is not the free exchange of ideas in America. What we're reporting on this evening is the death of somebody who was killed, I think, very likely because of the views he was expressing. I mean, that, that, for all intents and purposes, appears very much to be the case. And again, to reiterate the breaking news, multiple reports coming in that Charlie Kirk, the conservative activist, loyalist of Donald Trump, has died following this shooting on a college campus in Utah. I'm going to continue to monitor this, folks. The early reports that are, that we saw earlier, I'll reemphasize that they may be incorrect, that a suspect is custody. So we're all waiting for what the law enforcement officials are going to say. One has to assume that we are going to get a press conference at some point. And I, I would, I would probably say that it's likely that we'll see a press conference or some sort of statement from Donald Trump in short order. He'll probably want to address this as well. But this is a moment, I want to highlight this, folks. This is a moment to turn down the volume, to turn down the rhetoric. And listen, I can hear some of you at home saying, but what about Trump? But what about Trump? This is a big test for the President of the United States, and he is in his second term. He has talked about the idea of running for a third term, but he should look at these next three years as a moment where, you know, he, and, and maybe he's just not capable of this. Maybe he's just not capable of, deep down of any of this. But this is a moment where maybe he can try to surprise some people. And I know that's a stretched. I know That's a stretch. I, of course, know that's a stretch. But putting him to the side, putting all that to the side. If you are looking for leadership in this country, there are lots of examples. Doesn't have to be the President of the United States, lots of leaders right now who are making exactly the right points, that there is no place for political violence in this country, that we are capable of listening to our better angels, that we are capable of. Of learning from these kinds of moments in a way that doesn't put us at each other's throats, but brings us together with the understanding that you should be able to express your political views in this country without the threat, without the specter of political violence. And I hope that is one of the takeaways after all of this. I really do. I really do. And I deeply regret. And I'm very sad about what took place earlier today. My thoughts and my prayers go to Charlie Kirk and his family. I. I'm just deeply saddened by this. And we're better than this, America. We are. Better country than this. May not feel that way right now. We may not be that better place right now. But I. I still am holding out hope that we can get there and that we can learn from this episode, that we can figure out a way, just figure out a way in these coming days. We've got to find that way. We've got to find that. That path. Because the road we're heading down right now, folks, history has shown what it leads to. It leads to more of this. And we. We should not let that be the case. We should not let that be the case. We. We. We can do better. We can do better. But tonight a young man has died. And I, I, for one, am. Am deeply saddened by it because I, I just. I don't want our country to become what we appear to be today. And that is a deeply troubled place where political violence is quickly becoming the norm. As each of these episodes go, goes by, it becomes more and more the norm. And we just can't become that place. We can't become that place. Folks, I want to thank Olivia for jumping back on. Thank Senator Doug Jones earlier, Harry Dunn, Glenn Kirschner, all of those fine folks who were with us earlier on. And thank you everybody for watching. Really appreciate it. Again, the breaking news. Charlie Kirk, conservative activist, has died at the age of 31. And I'll continue to monitor the latest. If I can jump back on, I will. But in the meantime, still reporting from Washington, I'm Jim Acosta. Have a good evening. Good night.