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Foreign.
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Welcome to a special edition of the Jim Acosta Show. We're coming to you live at this hour because a major development here in Washington just in the last several minutes. The former FBI director James Comey has been indicted. There was some signaling, obviously, in the last several days that this was coming down the pike. Donald Trump obviously has been clamoring for this for some time, but he has been charged, according to the Associated Press, with making a false statement and obstruction in a criminal case filed days, of course, after Trump appeared to urge Pam Bondi, the Attorney General, to prosecute Comey and other perceived political enemies. I'm joined now by Katie Fang and Glenn Kirchner, two amazing legal analysts. Guys, great to see both of you. Katie. Katie was ready first. Glenn, I'm sorry, that's how it goes. Just kidding. But no, Katie, I'll get your reaction first, then go to Glenn.
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C
You know, Jim, thanks for having. Listen, if there was anybody that I was going to be hanging out with, it would be Glenn Kirchner. So I am glad that I'm reunited with my Justice Matters dynamic. Dude, you got right over here. Look, you know, you know, Jim, we could, we could talk until we are blue about the substantive charges that had been brought against Comey in the returning of this indictment from a grand jury. But I'm going to focus on two kind of factors. One, it's the Eastern District of Virginia, and two, it's Lindsey Halligan. And the reason why is it's in a jurisdiction. It's what I like to say, Jim. It's a hammer in search of a nail. Right. So Trump has now figured out the secret sauce of going after his political enemies is let me get them indicted, criminally prosecute them. But the person who I had to do this with was Lindsey Halligan, and it had to be done in the Eastern District of Virginia. So I had to get rid of the prior U.S. attorney, Eric Sieber. And once he was gone, I put in my own person. Lindsey Halligan, who has never prosecuted a criminal case, has no criminal experience whatsoever, has very little to no legal experience whatsoever, and just happens to be blonde. And that's it. And that's really just her, her, her bona fides to be able to do this job. That and the fact that she's a law lackey of one of many that happened to be to the state, that happened to be in the stable of Donald Trump. But it is an affront to the rule of law into our criminal justice system for a president to weaponize federal agencies, to be Able to go enemies when I tell you that we have now entered a total and complete authoritarian state. We are there. It's not that we're sliding into it, Jim. We have full on reach that. So from a, from the perspective that, look, an indictment was returned. Yeah. A grand jury heard the presentation of evidence and decided that two out of three charges were appropriate in this case. And that's what they did. They returned two of the three charges.
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B
And Glenn, I mean, you've got the justice matters signed behind you. It doesn't sound like justice matters and what took place this evening. Your thoughts?
- [02:56]
A
No. First of all, I'm thrilled to be on with my friend Katie and with you, Jim. So I think that today we can probably set the date of death, the legitimacy of the Donald Trump. Pam Bondi, Department of Justice we can call it as of September 25, 2025, the legitimacy of the leadership of this Department of Justice. It's dead. So there's so much to unpack here. I think first and foremost, if, you know, you look at the Richter scale, on a scale from 1 to 10 on the prosecutorial misconduct, on the vindictive prosecution front, this is not even on the charts. It's, you know, a 28 on a scale of 1 to 10. And I think what we're about to see, Jim, is the most robust motion to dismiss based on vindictive prosecution, selective prosecution, malicious prosecution. And this is not hyperbole that we have ever seen in the history of our courts.
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B
I can't remember an FBI director being indicted.
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C
It is history. This is history. Yeah.
- [04:12]
A
And when, you know, I love the grand jury, I spent decades presenting cases to grand juries. And we're going to have to go to that old saying that a grand jury will indict a ham sandwich. And that is true only if the prosecutor that presents the case to the grand jury is not loyal to the facts, to the law, or to the ethical obligations that he or she has to make a full and accurate presentation of the evidence to the grand jury. So, yeah, Lindsey Halligan could have sent some flunky into the grand jury and misled the grand jury about the state of the evidence in support of what Jim Comey did or didn't do. It's interesting to hear that the grand jury only indicted two of the three proposed charges. But these charges are not small potatoes. A false statement to Congress, which we call a 1,100 statement because anybody's scoring at home, they can look at 18 United States Code section 1001, false statement to Congress that's what he's accused of and now indicted for doing. That's a five year offense. That's the statutory maximum. The guidelines come in much lower with respect to an actual sentence that could be imposed. But when I saw the obstruction of justice count, Jim, yes, that's a 20 year felony offense. And when you realize that the former U.S. attorney appointed by Donald Trump, Eric Siebert, who's been in that office in Alexandria, I have friends there. I've been there more times than I can count because we would often work cases across the river, me in D.C. as a federal prosecutor. The Eastern District of Virginia federal prosecutors right across the river in Alexandria. Yeah, it's an excellent district. It's an excellent U.S. attorney's office. And they handle some of the most serious, particularly national security security cases in our nation. Eric Siebert has been there as a well respected federal prosecutor since 2010. Donald Trump named him as his U.S. attorney within days of being inaugurated the second time. And because he assessed that the facts and the law did not support an indictment of Jim Comey, he said, I will not do it. So of course he had to resign. Trump says he fired him. That's not the way it looks. But in any event, he left in protest. And then, as Katie points out, who does Donald Trump send over to do his dirty bidding and indict James Comey, notwithstanding the fact that it doesn't look like he committed any crime. This Lindsey Halligan character, what is her legal experience? She was an insurance lawyer for years. She is a repeat beauty pageant contestant. I'm not sure how, how that prepares you to be U.S. attorney and kind.
- [07:08]
B
Of looks like Hope Hicks, too. I'll just throw that. I don't know what that, what that's all about, but it's kind of weird. They all sort of look the same sometimes. I'm just gonna.
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A
You're not saying anything based on appearances, are you?
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B
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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A
And she was also in charge of scrubbing facts from the Smithsonian museums. That's what she's been doing at the White House. She has zero experience or expertise and has never prosecuted so much as a traffic ticket. And yesterday's reporting, as we all know, was that prosecutors who had been working the case in the office prepared what we call a declination memo. I've prepared many myself saying we've investigated it and the evidence is not there. We're recommending a declination, Jim. The amount of evidence in support of a vindictive motion to dismiss with prejudice that Comey's legal team will be filing very soon. I can't overstate just how powerful that motion is going to be.
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B
Interesting. And Katie, I mean, the fact that Trump over the weekend was putting out these truth social posts saying, go after my enemies. Pam Bondi, if I'm a trial lawyer, if I'm a defense lawyer, I'm holding that up as exhibit A, that this is a political prosecution. I mean, it just, it just, it just is obvious that that's what this is. And I would assume that a judge is going to be very tempted to just throw this damn thing out.
- [08:32]
C
Yeah. So I was talking to a group of lawyers. Every day we kind of chat about this. And here's what's critical about that. So it's not just James Comey who's now, obviously the trigger's been pulled on that indictment. Remember, he's been gunning after AG Tish James as well from New York, Adam Schiff, for example, he's been trying to come after them. So those troop social posts are going to be an exception. Exceptional weapon for the defense in this case. Why? Because a selective prosecution claim or a vindictive prosecution claim is not in and of itself a defense to substantive criminal charges. So what I mean by that is this I want our viewers to understand. So Comey will have to defend against the substantive charges that have been returned in the indictment, the obstruction of justice and the false statements to Congress. That in and of itself is a battle. But when you are alleging selective prosecution or vindictive prosecution, that not only is a motion to dismiss, as Glenn so astutely explained. Explained, but it's a standalone claim that is made, it's an independent claim that is made in the context of that case. And so you want to get discovery on that claim, but it's a pretty high burden to get discovery because it makes sense because everybody willy nilly would just say, oh, I'm being selectively prosecuted or vindictively prosecuted. So to get past that standard, it's a little bit of a catch 22. You have to actually have the evidence to prove, prove it. But to get the evidence, you have to use the discovery process. Those truth social posts are the key to getting the evidence you're going to need. It's going to give you access to stuff like the grand jury stuff, which normally you're not getting. Right? You're not getting access to that. Even communications that you otherwise wouldn't be getting access to because they would be considered work product or they would be considered confidential in some way. You're getting access to it. And so that is why dumb Donald Trump, as usual, has been, you know, lying down and spitting up in the air, because every time he does those truth social posts, it's like, keep on, keep them coming. Yeah, they're dumb. But as a criminal defense attorney who has to defend against this regime. Keep them coming, Donald, because they're going to be used against you in the defense of these defendants.
- [10:36]
B
Totally. And if you could indict somebody for lying, I mean, Trump would have been in prison a long time ago. I mean, this just. He would have never made it to the White House the first time around. And to that point, Glenn, I mean, I don't want to overstate things, and I guess I'll get accused of overstating things. But to your point earlier about how unprecedented this is and how dangerous this is for the rule of law in this country and the system of justice in this country, it seems to me this is an impeachable offense for Donald Trump to weaponize the Justice Department to go after an enemy in this fashion. This right here, if the Republicans don't slam the brakes on this, shame on them. This is the President of the United States going after a political enemy. We don't do that in this country.
- [11:20]
A
This is a high crime and misdemeanor. I mean, he has now fully weaponized the Department of Justice, figuratively speaking. It is a gun in his hand. He is locked and loaded. He has fired his first round at James Comey. He has an extended clip, probably a 20, you know, 20 round magazine, which happens to be illegal here in D.C. and he's prepared to use it. But I, I want to follow up on something Katie said about just how important as evidence of vindictive prosecution, Donald Trump's recent tweet is. And then at some point, Jim, we've got a couple of points of light that we need to discuss amidst the Trump induced darkness. And there are two significant points of light that I predict will come out of this vindictive prosecution. But first, to Katie's point, there are three things in Donald Trump's post, each of which will help prove vindictive prosecution. The first, and I think this was meant as a dm because he opens it. Pam, I have some things I want to tell you, Pam, that's not ordinarily how you address the nation, right? So, but he says, first of all, I've reviewed 30 statements and posts saying, same old story as last time. All talk, no action, nothing's being done. Why aren't you prosecuting these people? They're guilty as hell. Jim, it is not a basis to bring a prosecution that you have read social media posts criticizing the fact that you have prosecuted your enemies. That proves that, in part, this is a vindictive prosecution. The second thing he says, I'm not going to read all the stuff about Eric Sebert, all that blather, and about what a wonderful lawyer Lindsey Halligan is and how much she likes Pam. All of this is, like, bizarre.
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B
It's from. Yeah.
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A
He then says, we can't wait any longer. It's killing our reputation and our credibility. Jim, point number two, it is not a proper motive to bring a prosecution because your reputation and credibility is being killed. No, you bring prosecutions based on the facts and the law. And that's the other thing that reinforces to me, he did not mean this for public consumption, because what Donald Trump never says is, my administration's reputation and credibility is being killed. He doesn't talk like that publicly. Everything's always the best in history when it comes to his administration. Then the third thing that helps prove vindictive prosecution, he says, they impeached me twice and indicted me five times over. Nothing. Third point, just because you were indicted for your crimes, Donald, that is not a basis to indict your enemy. It doesn't work that way. There's three. Three parts of this post that will help prove Jim Comey's, you know, is the victim of a vindictive prosecution.
- [14:22]
B
Yeah, And I remember, I mean, I covered it back in 2017 when he fired Comey. He admitted on NBC to Lester Holt that he fired Come because of the Russia thing. You guys remember that? Because of the Russia thing. And I covered that campaign. And I was. I was. When he called me fake news, I was asking at that moment, did you or your associates have contacts with the Russians during the campaign? They lied about that. And then we found out what, that Don Jr. Jared Kushner and Paul Manafort were in fact in touch with a Russian attorney at Trump Tower In June of 2016, I believe, who was presenting herself as a representative of the Kremlin or somebody who is speaking on behalf of the Kremlin. I mean, I. It would have been. It would be malpractice from a law enforcement standpoint to not investigate that shit.
- [15:09]
A
He's. He's.
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B
He's been pissed at Comey ever since.
- [15:11]
C
Wait so quickly, Jim. I love that you bring that up. Right, because everything in the past is. Is. What is it? Is it. Past is prologue, right?
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B
Yeah.
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C
What's so dumb about this too, is the following. We're now going to re litigate that again. And all of that bad shit that Trump was involved in is going to come back out again. So all of his attempts to suppress that and to try to suggest that it was fake news and that it was all a hoax, it's all going to come back for public discourse and public consumption again. Because it's obviously going to be a huge part of the context within which statements were made and things were represented, et cetera. Right. The second thing is, Glenn, and you know, funny Glenn, because you just triggered something for me. This is the reverse of the Eric Adams shit. So remember, they wanted to put the pressure on not prosecuting Eric Adams anymore. And what happened? You had the total mutiny at the U.S. attorney's office in the Southern District of New York because good federal prosecutors are like, what in the actual hell are you people telling us to do? We know that there's probable cause here and that we properly were investigating this case, et cetera, et cetera. Right. Well, now we have the 180. Right. Good Prosecutors said there is nothing here, There is no probable cause. We are not going to pursue this in an indictment against James Comey. And then, you know, comes in twirling her hair, Lindsey Halligan. And now you get this indictment. I mean, it's the obvious, duck, duck, duck, walks, talks, quacks, whatever, all that stuff. But, but the bottom line is this, this is a telltale sign of the, this is a hallmark move from the DOJ now 100% under Trump.
- [16:45]
B
Yeah, and you're absolutely right, Katie. It's so true. And this is, this is just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the way Trump has been weaponizing the Justice Department, trying to weaponize the Justice Department. And I mean, we have three more years of this craziness. It's unreal. But Glenn, you said that there are some points of light in the darkness. My goodness, we could use them right now. Because, I mean, I'm very worried about what's going to happen to our country here in short order. There are other people on that, enemies. Listen. That he wants to go after.
- [17:16]
A
Yeah. And sometimes I feel like I have to close one eye and turn my head just so to find that point of light. But, but I have found two, and I don't think they're Pollyanna. The first one, this is a Kimmel esque miscalculation. You know, he, he awoke a sleeping giant when he wrongfully, you know, forced Kimmel off air through his, you know, flunky FCC chairman. And look at what happened. The people rose up. We are now, you know, boycotting the advertisers that ran commercials on the substitute programming. Right. Courtesy of Sinclair and nexstar refusing to air him. And Kimmel came back and has been doing bigger numbers than he ever would have done had Trump not retaliated against him. This is a similar miscalculation because I think the legal community will now rise up in ways that we haven't risen up before. We've been trying, we've been speaking out, we've been organizing and galvanizing. And, you know, this is something new and different, something we've never seen before. An evidence free, baseless, bogus prosecution being brought against the former high government official. I think that will now motivate and energize the legal community. And here's the other thing that will happen in the event James Comey is forced to go to trial. And if he's forced to go to trial, if the case is not dismissed prior to trial, yeah, I predict he will win this hands down. This will be like one of the prosecutions that John Durham brought. And it was, you know, John Durham was on this witch hunt investigate the investigators because Trump didn't like the fact that, that legitimate law enforcement looked into the Trump Russia connection. I get it. And I remember what I think it was. The forewoman of a jury said after they found not guilty, acquitted somebody that John Durham tried to prosecute, and they did it without even taking time for a lunch break. I mean, they found the defendant not guilty like that. And then the four person spoke to the media afterwards and said, our time could have been better spent with the message being, y' all brought us a bogus case and we, the jury, don't appreciate it. Here's what's going to happen.
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B
Yeah.
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A
If it goes to trial, Jim Comey will be found not guilty. What that will do is expose Donald Trump for the paper tiger he is when he is forever threatening to indict people and prosecute them. Because I believe any judge over in the Eastern District of Virginia will, figuratively speaking, cram this down DOJ's throat, this vindictive prosecution. What that will do, Jim, it will weaken Donald Trump if he's exposed as offering nothing but hollow threats to prosecute. Now, the flip side of that coin, it's horrific for people to have to go through defending against the vindictive prosecution. The time, the expense, the angst, the sleepless nights, the impact on one's family. Right? Horrific. But at the End of the day, this will expose Donald Trump as being weaker, not stronger.
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B
That's. I hope you're right, that that is the best case scenario, I would say, at this point, or one of the best case I can, I can imagine maybe even better cases scenario. That's a pretty good one. The other thing, Katie, is, I mean, I'm just going to throw out a political point here and just bounce off of what, what Glenn said, which is much smarter than what I'm about to say is, is that Donald Trump honestly should be grateful to Jim Comey. I mean, Jim Comey put out the Comey letter right before the 2016 election. I was out on the campaign trail with Donald Trump. And when they did, when this came out, and it was like they had thrown a ticker tape parade, they thought they had won the election at that point. And to this day, I never, I've never understood why he's so pissed off at Jim Comey. Because it swung the election to some extent to Donald Trump. I mean, it's been analyzed and seen as much. But your thoughts on what Glenn was saying? Because I'm just, you know, I'm drinking red wine here.
- [21:22]
C
But anyway, listen and keep it going, my friend. So here's the thing. Because, you know, because it's getting more astute as it, as it goes along with the wine. So, so here's the thing, though. You know, I was looking at some of the comments when I posted the breaking news on Social that Comey had been indicted. And there were some people that were like, oh, I don't care, because Jim Comey's the reason why Trump won in 2016. And to all the very amazing points that Glenn made, you know, when, when I was a prosecutor and Glenn, Glenn would totally echo this. One of the things that we learned as, as good, moral, you know, professionally responsible prosecutors, it is, it is the most powerful role in the criminal justice system. Even more powerful than the judge, because it only gets to the judge once a prosecutor indicts or prosecutes. The judge doesn't even get it if the prosecutor doesn't get that ball rolling. Right? Because even when the police arrest, the prosecutor can make the decision not to move forward with a case or a charge. And we were taught you wield a level of power that is profound. So you have to use it wisely and you have to use it only for good, Use that power only for good. And Glenn is right. People are going to react.
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B
So.
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C
The pushback is going to be. And the fallout is going to be so Profound from what just happened to James Comey, because James Comey. Talk about underestimating your target as well. James Comey's one smart cookie. He ain't no dumb guy. And when I'm telling you that guy's prepared for this shit, he knows he's had a target on his back for a long time. He's been preparing, has just been waiting. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. So do not underestimate James Comey. One and two, are people forgetting too, Maureen Comey, his daughter.
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B
Right.
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C
He was vindictively terminated from retaliation as well, from her job as a federal prosecutor. She was the lead prosecutor on the Epstein case and the Ghislaine Maxwell case. Hello. This DOJ can return a bullshit indictment on James Comey, but they can't fucking release the Epstein files.
- [23:27]
B
Yeah.
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C
Do not underestimate the intellectual capacity of most American people. Include all most American people.
- [23:35]
B
I agree with you.
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C
DOJ is so hot to chop for James Comey, but they can't get that Epstein file released like they're supposed to pursue into that congressional subpoena. So, you know, it's amazing, you know, Glenn, I also would point to Maureen Comey's firing if I were his defense attorney, and I'd say, look, he's working his way through the damn family at this point, firing Maureen Comey, and now he's going after James Comey. I mean, but, but, but I'm so glad that Glenn mentioned the literal toll it takes on people to have to defend these cases. It is expensive. It is incredibly stressful. And the fact that it's a criminal prosecution makes it that much more radically horrible. And that's why Americans have to look at this. I said this a few days ago on my YouTube channel. I said, this is a break the glass moment. This is a break glass moment. This is a five alarm fire, people. This is the kind of thing that you really have to say in your gut is just wrong.
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B
Yeah, yeah. And Glenn, I mean, here's another thought in all of this. I mean, could the defense call Donald Trump to the witness stand?
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A
Absolutely. They could subpoena him. They. There would be a battle, a legal battle as to whether the judge would order that he comply with the subpoena and appear. But listen, Donald Trump has made clear he is the lead prosecutor in every case. He makes the prosecutorial decisions whether to charge or decline to charge. Charge my enemies, decline to charge my friends. Right. So he is fair game because he will be sort of, you know, at the, at the center of the vindictive prosecution claim. And I think a judge might run afoul of the law because the law is very unforgiving when it comes to a defendant's opportunity to call witnesses in his or her defense. And if the judge makes a wrong call and declines to allow a defendant to call a witness in his or her own defense, you want to talk about reversible error on appeal, that would be potentially reversible error. So again, I don't want to get cavalier about the result, but this will be the most robust, vindictive prosecution and selective prosecution defense we have ever seen. And I would expect Jim Comey to, to win it hands down.
- [25:55]
B
Yeah. And that. Is that your expectation as well, Katie? I mean, can you see a scenario where Comey gets convicted in this, that they find a, a way to a judge, a court, you know?
- [26:07]
C
No. No. And let me tell you why. So, so the indictment's been unsealed. It's a two page indictment. And the indictment says count one, false statements within the jurisdiction of the legislative branch of the US government. Glenn nailed it. 18 USC 1011, sub A, sub 2. It is a September 30, 2020 statement by James Comey when he was falsely stating to a US Senator during a Senate Judiciary Committee hearing that he had not, quote, authorized someone else at the FBI to be an anonymous source in news reports, end quote, regarding an FBI investigation concerning person one. That statement was false because James Comey Jr. Then and there knew the that he had in Fact authorized Person 3 to serve as an anonymous source in news reports regarding an FBI investigation concerning person one. That is count one. And then count two is September 30, 2020. Comey corruptly endeavored to influence, obstruct and impede the power of inquiry that was being done by the Senate Judiciary Committee by making false and misleading statements before that committee, all in violation of 18 USC 1505. They redacted the name of the foreperson. It is a true bill. And then it has Lindsey Halligan's signature as the United States Attorney. Lindsey Halligan. If I were her, I'd be pooping my pants right now. Because she's going to have serious ethics complaints. She's going to have bar problems. She's barred in the state of Florida. Here's the other thing. She ain't even barred in the state of Virginia. She's not barred in that jurisdiction. You don't have to be barred in that jurisdiction to be the U.S. attorney. But my gosh, if you don't even know what the hell is going on in that jurisdiction. What the hell are you doing being the U.S. attorney in charge of criminal prosecutions there? So if I were her, I mean, she didn't care. She didn't care enough to decline it, to say, I'm not going to take this job. But it's the Alina Haba thing all over again, right?
- [28:05]
B
Yes.
- [28:05]
C
You know, it's the whole, it's this completely incompetent person who doesn't have business in that role doing it because they're.
- [28:11]
B
Just, I mean, you know, oh, well, not that. I mean, I'm having a glass of wine, so I can't throw stones in glass houses here. But what is she, what is she.
- [28:19]
C
Doing from a box? I suspect your wine is not from a box.
- [28:23]
A
It's not from a box. Let me. Because as we move forward now into the court phase of this horrific debacle.
- [28:33]
B
Yeah.
- [28:34]
A
Katie had mentioned, you know, the kind of quality of the lawyering. Right. Jim Comey's lawyers are going to run circles around whatever DOJ lawyer they can coerce into going into court to prop up this garbage. Now, I would. And I think Katie mentioned a few minutes ago the Eric Adams debacle. Do you realize, Jim, in most of the big cases that the DOJ is involved in involving trying to defend Donald Trump, they can't even find line attorneys, rank and file career federal prosecutors to go into court. Who went into court up in New York when they were trying to do that dirty deal for Eric Adams. Emil Beauvai, a political appointee and former criminal defense attorney of Donald Trump's. And Bove went down in flames in that case because Judge Ho refused to let Beauvais dismiss the case without prejudice so they could hold it over Eric Adams head so he would be a good little mayor and do exactly what Donald Trump told him to do moving forward or else they would re bring the charges. Judge Ho said the attorney at that time, Beauvais, no, I'm not going to do that. I'm going to dismiss it with prejudice so you can't use it as leverage in the future against Eric Adams. Jim, who in the world are they going to get to go into court and try Jim Comey? Is it going to Lindsey Halligan herself? Is she going to go in and try it? Is this Mary Maggie Clearity? Who? Cleary. Who, who? I, you know, she was, she was the acting U.S. attorney. For a cup of coffee, Pam Bondi said, I'm appointing her. And then two minutes later, Donald Trump said, no, you're not. I'm appointing my My, my friend here, Lindsey Halligan, who's going to go into court and try this case. Somebody who doesn't care about their license to practice law.
- [30:23]
B
Yeah, well, I, I think that you guys hit the nail on the head. I mean, this is a very disturbing moment. I, there was a viewer who chimed in earlier who said they're too incompetent to pull this off. Let's just hope that that's the case. But, guys, thank you very much. Thanks for coming on and doing this. The breaking analysis on this Comey indictment. It's a dark night, but I hope there's some rays of light. As you were saying, Glenn, I hope this does expose Donald Trump for what he's been doing to the American people. But, Glenn and Katie, great to see both of you. Thank you very much.
- [30:55]
C
Thanks for letting me hang out with Glenn. That was great. Thanks.
- [30:58]
B
That was fun. He was great. He was terrific. And I want to very quickly bring in Miles Taylor, my buddy Miles Taylor, former Trump administration official, who has been singled out by Donald Trump as somebody he would like to seek retribution against. Miles, I mean, you have a little bit of a sense as to how Jim Comey is feeling tonight. Your thoughts on all of this. I mean, this is, to me, this is an emergency for our government. This is an emergency for our nation that we're seeing right now play out in real time.
- [31:31]
D
It's an extraordinary moment, Jim. I mean, to be very honest with you, I think we can call time of death on the rule of law in the United States. And I said something to that effect the other day. And specifically, I would not say it's this very moment. I would say it was this past Saturday, September 20th, at 6:44pm and that's when Donald Trump decided to jump over the normal guardrails of democracy and the judicial process in what looked like it was supposed to be a text message to Pam Bondi, but which he posted on Truth Social demanding that the attorney general accelerate the prosecutions of his critics, effectively saying evidence be damned. And that has now happened. We saw that happen inside of a week. We have indicators that John Bolton will also be charged. There are rumors that they are going to accelerate charges against Adam Schiff. US Senator Adam Schiff and Letitia James. You cannot overstate this moment. But I also would say, Jim, there is an arc of history here that is fascinating, and that is almost exactly 10 years ago this story started. We are talking about events that have been in motion for a decade. And I will tell you, I remember very vividly what I felt like was the biggest crisis of this magnitude during the first Trump administration. And it had to do with James Comey. I will not forget the night in May when he was fired from the post of FBI director while investigating Donald Trump's potential collusion with the Russians. And I had just gotten back from the Middle East. We were meeting with the King of Jordan, John Kelly and I. We landed in the United States. We both went home to get some sleep, and then I went out to dinner, and I got a phone call from then Secretary Kelly, and he said, the President has fired Jim Comey. And I will never forget the gravity in his voice. It wasn't because the two were friends. In fact, John Kelly didn't know Jim Comey. It was because to him, this signaled an acceleration in the deterioration of the rule of law. Now, as we all know, Donald Trump's efforts in many cases like that were thwarted in the first term. But now here he is. He's not only previously fired Jim Comey, now he wants to put him in prison.
- [34:00]
B
Yeah, no, and I was talking about this with Glenn and Katie earlier. I mean, the fact that the FBI was investigating ties between the Trump campaign and the Russians, I mean, that's something that you would expect law enforcement to do. Don Jr, Jared Kushner, Paul Manafort, met with a Russian attorney during that campaign. There was smoke. And then law enforcement, you investigate that, you look into it, you say, well, what's going on here? What happened there? And to me, this has been a vendetta that Donald Trump has had for years now. And I'm wondering what you think the potential exposure is here for Jim Comey. It seems to me that. And as was the case when he singled you out, when he makes these public statements like, I want to go after my enemies, one would have to think a judge is going to look at that and just say, get the hell out of here with this stuff. This is not who we are as a country. I hope so.
- [35:00]
D
I. I would hope so, too. Look, I. I think it's actually too soon to handicap his chances in court.
- [35:07]
B
You know, my.
- [35:07]
D
My personal view is notwithstanding, I, of course, think that Jim Comey is. Is not guilty of these charges. I think it's absurd. And you don't even need to know all the details to know that. All you need to know is that the President of the United States said, go find something to charge the guy with. And they went and charged him. Clearly, that's not how the justice system is supposed to work. And he would seem to have one of the best cases in U.S. history for selective and vindictive prosecution. In fact, Donald Trump has so thoroughly papered the record of his dislike of Jim Comey, of his desire to charge the man, charge him with anything, that you would think any judge in this country would be able to toss the thing on those grounds, and if not, certainly on appeal. That would be an extraordinary, an extraordinary test case on selective and vindictive prosecution in the United States. That said, Donald Trump has not yet fully done the attack that many of us had expected on the judiciary. He has previously talked in private about getting rid of judges, ignoring courts altogether, circumventing courts, engaging in judicial gerrymandering. I don't think this story is over now. It's possible that James Comey and probably likely does not get convicted on these charges, but Donald Trump won't take a loss after a loss after a loss. At some point, he will attempt to rig the system in his favor. He wants to see some of these people go to prison. And I will put another crystallizing image in the mind of listeners, Jim, which is when people keep asking, what's Trump's end goal here? What's Trump's end goal? As always, he is spelling it out. I mean, he has said over the past few days, look, we'll let the courts figure it out. I don't care how these people, whether they're guilty or not guilty, we just need to charge them. I don't totally believe that because I think he wants to see them go to prison. But what Donald Trump is focused on right now is that montage that we all remember, that picture that showed Donald Trump in the center and his mugshot and then the mug shots of all of his lieutenants who committed actual crimes in the wake of the January 6th insurrection and others tied to the classified documents case. He wants to recreate that montage, but with his enemies, he wants their mug shots. And just wait. That is his focus. He is hell bent on posting those pictures. The next thing that he is focused on is, I assume, he wants to make sure that they issue an arrest warrant for James Comey so he can be arrested and there can be a mugshot. And I actually don't know if we have the answer to that.
- [37:56]
A
You're right.
- [37:56]
D
Sometimes the judge will issue a summons and will summon the individual, and sometimes it's an arrest warrant. He wants that arrest warrant. He wants a mugshot photo. That's what he cares about. He wants to get it with John Bolton. He wants to get it with Schiff. He wants as many of those photos as possible. Because for him, as a man who's a communications professional, that's all that matters, is he needs to show the guess who game like board of all of those faces to make his case to the American people that he has gone after the so called deep state.
- [38:25]
B
I think that's dead on because I think he has been fantasizing about this for years and he has been particularly fantasizing about it since he was indicted and had his mug shot taken. And I agree with you. I don't think he's going to stop. And whether Comey is convicted, I mean, that's important, but it's kind of beside the point a little bit in that he wants to make life miserable for these people that he sees as his political enemies and he's going to use the justice system to do it. And I was talking about this with Glenn Kirschner and Katie Feng a few moments ago. To me, this is, and people might say this is overstating things. This is an impeachable offense. This is to use the government, to use our justice system in this fashion. We just don't do that in this country. And to me, this is a moment where the leadership needs to take a hard look at whether or not he's just violating the law here, that he's just violating the Constitution here. And how the hell do you the one mechanism that we have is impeachment and getting hauled out of office. I don't know what you think about that, but it seems to me he's testing the system like never before.
- [39:39]
D
Yes, I think that this is a moment of constitutional crisis. The president of the United States is engaged in the selective prosecution of his adversaries. He is violating their constitutional rights. Actually, in real time, it is very much an impeachable offense. I know that in the coming days, we will have Democrats on Capitol Hill talking about whether this is the moment to start bringing that to the fore for a lot of people in the American public to help folks understand how significant this actually is. But Jim, there's also another layer to it which is the president of the United States, when he engages in a criminal act, almost always is not doing that alone. And in this case, Donald Trump has directed his lieutenants to go violate the civil rights, the constitutional rights of American citizens. He has directed them to, to do that. Now, I assume somewhere in the future. I'm not a lawyer. These are called Bivens claims when they're brought against officers of the government who knowingly engage in a Violation of someone's constitutional rights. I've got to assume somewhere in here, there's going to be a raft of Bivens claims made against Trump officials. But my message to Donald Trump's henchmen is this. You have two choices right now, and one choice is you can push back against this from the inside. And if that doesn't work, you can start blowing the whistle. You can protect the Constitution by exposing how nakedly Donald Trump is trying to violate it. That's path number one. If you don't do that and you choose path number two, which is to carry out his orders, make no mistake, you shoulder extraordinary legal liability. And Donald Trump will try to convince you that he will protect you or he will pardon you. But like any mob boss, you cannot count on his promises of protection. His promises of protection are really just a veiled threat to stay close to him, and he will dangle that out there to get you to do other things. And then he will leave office. He will wrap himself in presidential immunity, and you will be left exposed, because we are watching you. We are watching you. We are tracking who is engaged in these illegal acts. And when the rule of law is restored, accountability will be restored, too.
- [42:07]
B
Miles, thanks for jumping on, man. I appreciate it. I think your. Your words there are so powerful, and I hope people are listening. I hope inside the Justice Department, there are good Americans who are going to say right now at this moment, I quit. I resigned from the Justice Department. I can't work here. And we need to see that. And perhaps that will help turn the tide. I will say in just the last couple of moments, there was a news alert saying that Donald Trump is now celebrating this and saying it's, quote, justice in America. Obviously, that is far from the case, but. Miles, great to see you, man. Thanks so much for jumping on.
- [42:40]
D
Thank you, Jim.
- [42:40]
B
All right, thanks a lot. And thank you, everybody, for watching. Really appreciate it. Sometimes I do closing monologues. I'm not going to do that here tonight. I'm. I'm going to just close with the news itself. The news itself is a commentary on what is happening in America. The news itself is a commentary on America. A former FBI director, James Comey, has been indicted in what is, I mean, an obvious political prosecution, an obvious abuse of the judicial system of the Justice Department to go after a political enemy. Folks, we have crossed a major threshold in this country. We are now entering the realm of autocracy. We are now entering the realm of authoritarianism. We are now entering the realm of fascism. And people need to pay attention. And we have to hope that good men and women will stand up in this moment and push back against what is an injustice in America tonight. My thanks to Miles Taylor, Katie Fang, Glenn Kushner. I'm Jim Acosta. Thanks for tuning in. Still reporting from Washington, I'm Jim Acosta. Have a good night. See you next time.