Congressman Eugene Vindman blasts Trump's meeting with Zelensky as "shameful" and Ret. Gen. Mark Hertling says Trump's behavior was "despicable."

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Jim Acosta Show

Episode Title:
"Congressman Eugene Vindman Blasts Trump's Meeting with Zelensky as 'Shameful' and Ret. Gen. Mark Hertling Says Trump's Behavior Was 'Despicable.'"

Host:
Jim Acosta

Release Date:
February 28, 2025

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Introduction

In this emotionally charged episode of The Jim Acosta Show, host Jim Acosta delves into the controversial Oval Office meeting between former President Donald Trump, Vice President J.D. Vance, and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky. The episode features in-depth discussions with Congressman Eugene Vindman of Virginia and Retired General Mark Hertling, both of whom offer scathing critiques of the interaction, labeling it as both "shameful" and "despicable."

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Overview of the Controversial Oval Office Meeting

Jim Acosta opens the episode by setting the stage for the contentious meeting that took place in the White House. According to reports from The Washington Post and The New York Times, the encounter between Trump, Vance, and Zelensky devolved into a heated confrontation reminiscent of a "bar room brawl" (00:00). The meeting, intended to discuss a rare minerals deal between the U.S. and Ukraine, quickly turned sour as Trump and Vance criticized Zelensky for not expressing enough gratitude for U.S. support in Ukraine's ongoing war with Russia.

Notable Quote:
"At times, the encounter felt more like a bar room brawl with furious demands from Trump and Vice President J.D. Vance for respect and gratitude from the wartime Ukrainian leader."
— The Washington Post (00:00)

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Congressman Eugene Vindman's Perspective

Congressman Eugene Vindman provides a firsthand account of the meeting's impact on U.S.-Ukraine relations. Vindman describes the confrontation as "shameful" and "sickening," emphasizing the inappropriateness of American leaders lecturing the Ukrainian president about the war's toll (01:54). He underscores the importance of maintaining a strong alliance with Ukraine, pointing out that the proposed minerals deal could benefit both nations by enhancing Ukraine's economic stability and deterring further Russian aggression.

Notable Quotes:

"It's actually shameful. It was sickening to watch, frankly, the both of them go at it, trying to lecture the president of Ukraine."
— Eugene Vindman (01:54)

"This is U.S. National security, and it's in our national security interest to be aligned with Ukraine."
— Eugene Vindman (02:50)

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Retired General Mark Hertling's Insights

Retired General Mark Hertling offers a military perspective, highlighting the detrimental effects of the meeting on America's standing with its allies. He criticizes the lack of diplomatic finesse, noting that the aggressive public confrontation undermines the United States' diplomatic and informational strategies—two of the four pillars of national power (13:22). Hertling expresses concern that such behavior signals weakness to adversaries like China and Russia, potentially emboldening them to pursue further aggressive actions.

Notable Quotes:

"The display of values from the Oval Office... was, in my view today, somewhat just despicable."
— Mark Hertling (17:07)

"Today's dynamic in the Oval Office shows that we're lacking... diplomacy the right way or information exchange and using threatening economic measures to try and influence a foreign leader."
— Mark Hertling (15:41)

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Jim Acosta's Commentary and Analysis

Jim Acosta offers a critical analysis of the meeting, questioning the United States' moral standing and strategic interests. He draws parallels to historical diplomatic moments, such as Ronald Reagan's iconic speech in Berlin, to contrast the respectful diplomatic engagements of the past with the abrasive behavior witnessed during Trump's meeting with Zelensky (19:18). Acosta emphasizes the heroic efforts of Ukrainian citizens and questions whether the U.S. is truly supporting them or undermining their cause through such confrontational tactics.

Notable Quotes:

"It looked like we were being the bully to a country that has already been bullied enough."
— Jim Acosta (16:00)

"If Ukraine falls, Putin is going to want something else next... it's just how he's wired."
— Jim Acosta (25:55)

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Implications for U.S. Foreign Policy and Alliances

The episode delves into the broader implications of the meeting for U.S. foreign policy and its alliances. Both Vindman and Hertling express concern that the aggressive stance taken by Trump and Vance could weaken U.S. credibility and embolden adversaries. Hertling warns that such actions may lead European allies to seek greater self-sufficiency, diminishing the global influence traditionally held by the United States.

Notable Quotes:

"They are going to step up. They are going to have to kick it into next year and increase their production, their self-sufficiency, their internal capabilities."
— Eugene Vindman (10:21)

"If we are allowing them to continue on, they're going to lick their wounds, they're going to rearm, refuel and refit and in a couple of years they're going to be back doing it again because they got away with it one more time."
— Mark Hertling (22:58)

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Critique of White House Press Handling

Acosta also addresses concerns regarding the White House press office's decision to allow a Russian state media correspondent, Tassel, to cover the high-profile meeting. He criticizes the exclusion of reputable news agencies like Reuters and the Associated Press, questioning the transparency and motives behind permitting Russian state media access (30:24).

Notable Quote:

"Among the hand picked folks the White House is letting into the Oval Office with Trump and Zelensky today is a correspondent from Tassel, the Russian state news agency."
— Jim Acosta (30:24)

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Conclusion and Final Thoughts

In wrapping up the episode, Jim Acosta reflects on the significance of the meeting, emphasizing the critical role Ukraine plays in defending European stability against Russian aggression. He urges listeners to question the integrity of their leaders and the direction of U.S. foreign policy, advocating for stronger support for Ukraine to prevent further regional destabilization.

Notable Quote:

"Are we that country? Is that who we are?"
— Jim Acosta (30:24)

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Key Takeaways

1. Aggressive Diplomacy: The Oval Office meeting was marked by unprofessional and aggressive behavior from Trump and Vance towards Zelensky, undermining U.S.-Ukraine relations.

2. National Security Concerns: Both Vindman and Hertling highlight the potential national security ramifications, including emboldening adversaries like Russia and China.

3. Weakening Alliances: The incident may lead European allies to reconsider their reliance on U.S. support, striving for greater self-sufficiency.

4. Press Office Controversies: The White House's handling of press access, particularly allowing Russian state media into sensitive meetings, raises concerns about transparency and media bias.

5. Call for Accountability: Acosta calls for American citizens to hold their leaders accountable, questioning whether the U.S. is maintaining its values and strategic interests in its foreign policy decisions.

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Final Note:
This episode underscores the tension and challenges within U.S. foreign policy, especially in the context of the ongoing conflict in Ukraine. Through the insights of Congressman Eugene Vindman and Retired General Mark Hertling, combined with Jim Acosta's incisive commentary, listeners gain a comprehensive understanding of the potential long-term impacts of the controversial Oval Office meeting.

Transcript

[Jim Acosta]

Everybody, welcome to the Jim Acosta show on this Friday, February 28th. They are breaking out the good vodka at the Kremlin tonight. That is the headline you can see on screen with me is Congressman Eugene Vindman of Virginia. I'm going to get his take on what went down in the Oval Office in just a moment. But just to get everybody caught up to speed about this wild Oval Office meeting that Trump had with Ukrainian President Volodymyr zelensky, Vice President J.D. vance was also involved in this meeting. They took turns essentially going after Zelensky, beating up on him for, for a good portion of time in what was really just sort of a scene that you never really see in the Oval Office, going after a foreign leader in that fashion. And a little later from now, I'll talk about this further with retired General Mark Hertling. But here's how the Washington Post described it. It said, quote, at times, the encounter felt more like a bar room brawl with furious demands from Trump and Vice President J.D. vance for respect and gratitude from the wartime Ukrainian leader. And here's how the New York Times broke it down. The Times said the encounter, quote, ultimately blew up plans to sign a rare minerals deal and signaled a dramatic break in relations between two wartime allies in a public confrontation. The New York Times says unlike any scene between an American president and foreign leader in modern times, Trump and Vance castigated Zelensky for not being grateful enough for US Support in its war with Russia. I mean, this, this went on, on and on during this meeting. Let's talk about this now with Congressman Eugene Vindman. Congressman, I, I'm sure all of Washington saw this, and people just had their jaws dropping, I suppose. What was your reaction? I know you've been very close to the situation in Ukraine for some time now, and so I just, it's got to be just jaw dropping, crazy, bonkers stuff to watch this unfold.

[Eugene Vindman]

Yeah, it's actually shameful. It was sickening to watch, frankly, the both of them go at it, trying to lecture the president of Ukraine, a country that's now in its fourth year of war, about the cost this war is, the toll it's taking. I mean, he knows it better than they do. I mean, it's absurd if you think about it. And it was so bad. I actually got a message from a, a German prosecutor that I worked on investigating war crimes in Ukraine about an hour ago, not long after the, after the press conference. And they're just astounded. I mean, yeah, this is like, it's, it's shameful it's unacceptable. And I think really what we need to do is we need to, certainly the administration and, and the Ukrainians need to focus on what the stakes are here. This is not, this is not a card game. It's not a game of any kind. We're not playing pinochle. Right. This is U. S. National security, and it's in our national security interest to be aligned with Ukraine. That's why we, we sent personnel to Ukraine to negotiate this deal. We hammered something out. Obviously, the devil's in the details. I don't think Zelinsky, he's demonstrated he's strong, that he, he's willing to take some withering fire, that he would not have agreed to a deal if it was not also in Ukraine's interest. I think the US And Ukraine need to focus on what the interests are here, that we need to continue to work together and, and have U. S. Skin in the game is actually beneficial to Ukraine. Development of minerals is beneficial, yeah, there's.

[Jim Acosta]

No question about it. I mean, that could certainly help both the US And Ukraine. But does it have the feel of an extortion attempt on the part of Trump to say, well, if you give us your rare earth minerals, we'll give you some protection? And then at the end of the day, if you look at the deal that's been reported on, it's sort of vague as to whether the US Would do that anyway. But during this Oval Office slugfest, Trump was just, you know, cajoling Zelensky. You've got to sign this thing. You've got to sign this thing or you're not going to get any help from us. It just, it just looked like something out of the Godfather or something that was playing out right in front of our eyes.

[Eugene Vindman]

I mean, that's a great analogy. That's what I thought of first when I saw this take place. And look, I think the most important thing that we have to keep in mind is that the, the, the Chinese are actually watching what's going on here. They're, they're seeing what's going on with the US Government, that this idea of us selling Ukraine out, because this is what we're doing, we're going to sell Ukraine out, potentially, that aggression that might makes right, that the rules of the jungle do apply to international relations. And, you know, our best estimates are in 2027, they'll be ready to take on and attack Taiwan. The message couldn't be any more clear to the Chinese, our, our allies and our adversaries, what the stakes are here. And as I think the deal itself, obviously, I mean, it's not typically the way I would anticipate a, a negotiation for a joint development agreement, to put it in the most benign way, would take place, but having additional revenue in Ukraine, that this deal would generate joint development of minerals that are important to the United States.

[Jim Acosta]

And it sounds like you're saying it wouldn't be a bad, it wouldn't be a bad arrangement if it weren't Donald Trump involved in making it happen.

[Eugene Vindman]

Yeah. And the devil's in the details. So, I mean, I think it could be something that's workable, that's beneficial, but under the present circumstances, and what we saw was, and I don't know if it's. It's completely off the table, but was not, was not great. Look, we did see, obviously, posturing from this administration and we saw a response from the Ukrainians in real time, but as, as each side goes to their own corner, we'll see if they come back together. Focused on that. That deal.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah. And it almost felt like a setup that, that Trump and, and J.D. vance sort of wanted to lay some bait out there to see if they can get Zelensky to, you know, get into some kind of exchange with them. Because you heard J.D. vance, I mean, he's the Vice President of the United States. I don't know why he's there. I mean, typically you wouldn't have the Vice President there. You know, it was almost like a tag team wrestling match, beating up.

[Eugene Vindman]

Yeah, it's. Yeah, he's back up for the President, who's, who's maybe like, not as engaged in these things. And.

[Jim Acosta]

Right. There's always a wingman. It's Elon Musk or it's J.D. vance. I mean, it's kind of strange. And then J.D. vance was doing these talking points and saying, you know, have you ever thanked us for what you've done? And Zelinsky has done that time and again.

[Eugene Vindman]

Yeah, I mean, that's 100% true. And I think if you, if you go with more than an inch deep on policy with, with the President, you're going to lose him. And so he does need, he, he does need backup. He needs a crutch. And that's what we saw from J.D. vance. That's what we see from his best buddy, Elon. But the long and short is if, if these sides go back to their corners, they stay laser focused on what brought Zelensky here to the United states, to Washington D.C. at this, this time, this moment, to sign this deal, Maybe something is salvageable now that we have the, the great made for TV moment. You know.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah.

[Eugene Vindman]

What happens?

[Jim Acosta]

Do you think Zelensky, I mean, do you think it's advisable to him to do some kind of a deal with Trump? At this point, it just seems very favorable to the Russians, very favorable to, to Putin. I mean, that's why I said that they're drinking the good vodka at the Kremlin tonight because this could not have played out better for Vladimir Putin.

[Eugene Vindman]

It's 100% true. They, they are, they're, they're breaking out their, their best Russian standard and they're celebrating from this, this press conference more than anything. But I think a deal would be in Ukraine's interest and in the US Interest. It would put American skin in the game. If not, we're not talking about military personnel, but we're talking about, you know, corporations and other Americans to help develop it, which would make it much less likely that the Russians would go on the offensive and attack those sites. And so, you know, I remain optimistic that maybe something is salvageable. But we are an extremely, extremely poor position. We are as a country. We're diminished by what happened today in the Oval Office, and it's shameful.

[Jim Acosta]

And you have to wonder what, I mean, US Allies are saying right now when I talk to my diplomatic sources, they could not be more disappointed and worried, quite frankly, about Donald Trump being in the Oval Office again and having the Ukrainians over a barrel. This rare earth minerals deal feels like, you know, it feels like to a lot of people overseas and among our allies, like a racket, like Trump's just trying to pull off a racket here. And I guess you're absolutely right. Ukrainians need resources, and so development of this fashion would certainly help them. But it, it's hard. I mean, how could you, how many people have gone into business with Donald Trump and regretted it on the other side?

[Eugene Vindman]

I guess too many in New York. But I will say it's, there is an interesting development here. Obviously, the Europeans are, are quickly learning in these last four weeks that relying on the US Is going to be a very difficult proposition. And so after the display that we saw in the Oval Office today, you know, the Europeans are going to have to step up. They're going to have to kick it into next year and increase their production, their self sufficiency, their, their internal capabilities. And maybe in a, in a, in a position now, having seen what has happened.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah.

[Eugene Vindman]

To, you know, Ukraine, a country that is really on the, on the front Line, the tip, the spear, so to speak, of Europe defending the rest of the continent that they may be, they may step up a little bit more.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah. Well, Congressman Vindman, great to talk to you as always. Thanks for making time for me. I hit you up pretty late in the day, but it felt like breaking news. So thanks for helping us out this afternoon. Really appreciate it.

[Eugene Vindman]

Thank you, Jim. Great to be on again with you.

[Jim Acosta]

All right, good to see you, sir. That's Congressman Eugene Vindman of Virginia. And I mean, obviously, I think Congressman Vindman makes a great point and this is lost on some people from time to time, I think especially on the right in Trump world, and that is Ukraine has been fighting a war on behalf of essentially the democratic world. If Ukraine falls, Putin is going to want more. You have to have that understanding. You have to have that expectation. And so what happens after that if he tries to poke and prod, go after a NATO country? It's a big moment for the US and why even get to that stage if you can support the Ukrainians and make sure the Russians don't get away with something like this? Now, I mentioned earlier going to try to bring in Mark Hertling to talk about this further. I mean, one of the other things I want to bring into this conversation is something else that happened at the White House today, and that is that the White House press office was about to let in a Russian state media reporter. Talk about that in just a moment. But first, there's General Mark Hertling. Great to see you, Mark, as always. I was just talking about this with Congressman Eugene Vindman. He's a freshman congressman from Virginia. Obviously, a lot of people in Washington are just dumbfounded. I mean, just completely jaws, you know, dropped, mouth agape over what we saw earlier this afternoon. I suppose it shouldn't be that surprising, but the sight of an American president and vice president sort of tag teaming and berating and beating up on Zelenskyy, I have to think that that is going to be difficult for a lot of Americans to swallow this weekend when they digest this. It was really, it was troubling.

[Mark Hertling]

I think it was beyond troubling, Jim. And I saw part of your discussion with Congressman Vindman, you know, and you're talking about a son of Ukraine, you know, a grandson of Ukraine, he and his brother. So, you know, from that perspective, I think he gave some unique commentary. But I got to tell you, as you know my history, I spent a lot of time in Ukraine as the commander of US Forces in Europe. We spent a significant amount of time helping their army develop back in 2008 through 2012, and got a lot of contacts there. And your one comment to the congressman about you suspect that various European countries are reacting to this. What I'll tell you is I have surety of that because over the last two hours, I've gotten blast and my phone's been blown up from former comrades both in European militaries and European governments that I used to work with, and they are all dumbfounded by this. One of the things I'd say, Jim, you know, I mean, a lot of people talk about the power of the United States military, and it is one of the four elements of national power. The other powers are diplomacy, economy, and information. And today's dynamic in the Oval Office shows that we're lacking in a couple of those not being able to do diplomacy the right way or information exchange and using threatening economic measures to try and influence a foreign leader. And those are the things that are not done in public. You know, it isn't a reality show. If you want to have the tough conversations, have it behind closed doors. But the press briefing is supposed to be a place, as you well know better than I, where you kind of assuage each other and say, yeah, we're. We're doing some tough talks, but we're really going to get in the meat of the things. This was. This was a, you know, a brawl on national tv. And everyone has seen it, not just in the United States, but. But all around the world. And in my view, it's gonna hurt the United States in many ways. This was a tectonic shift in terms of U.S. foreign policy.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah. And if you'll forgive a little bit of commentary on my part, I'm gonna agree with what Congressman Vindman said earlier. I mean, this was shameful. This was a shameful debacle in the Oval Office of the White House of the United States of America. And I'll lay it out in a couple of ways. One is to have the American president go after the leader of a country in a vulnerable position. He's obviously here for help. He's obviously here because a larger power is beating up on his country. They have fought bravely for three years now. They've lost countless men, women and children. Just the entire country has been brutalized. And to have the American treat somebody like that in that fashion calls into question whether we are on the side of good. I know you and I, as and. And the rest of the American people out there, yes, we are on the side of good. But the President does not look like he is on the side of good. If I could just boil things down in that, in that kind of black and white way, and I feel free to weigh in on that. Maybe that's, you know, maybe that's putting it a little too starkly, but it just. That's the way it looked to me. It looked like we were being the bully to a country that has already been bullied enough.

[Mark Hertling]

Yeah. Jim, I'll tell you, I had some thoughts and conversations actually last night with my wife about where we are as Americans today. And, you know, in terms of rehashing, what are our. What our alleged values are of integrity and respect for others and having an understanding that people all have a common spark of divinity within them and they have that humankind. All of that was negated today. And our values are what we're known for in the United States. And we turn those values allegedly into policies and then strategies. Well, the display of values from the Oval Office, the head of our government, was, in my view today somewhat just despicable. There's no other way to say it. You don't treat people like that. Even if they're your enemies, you don't treat people like that. I mean, even on the battlefield, we never treated our enemies like that. And it's just a shame. I'm sorry, I continued on.

[Jim Acosta]

No, no. What you said there just made me think of Ronald Reagan saying, Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall. And yes, there are moments when we speak to our adversaries, our enemies, in that kind of fashion, but Volodymyr Zelensky is a hero. I'm sorry. The people of Ukraine, they're heroic and what they have been able to do. And I know Zelensky, he's not a perfect guy, and he might reject that being referred to in that fashion, but we just look like the bad guys when we act in this way. And the other thing that was disgraceful about it was the dishonest way that JD Vance was speaking to Zelensky, saying, well, when have you ever thanked us? And not so many he's thanked us. I mean, J.D. vance went to Yale. He went to Yale Law School. Are you, are you, are you for real here when you are saying stuff like that? It just. It just came across to me as disgraceful, despicable, dishonest, and the list goes on and on.

[Mark Hertling]

Yeah. You know, Jimmy just quoted Reagan in Berlin of, tear down this wall. Having spent a little bit of time in Berlin, not only is that spot honored, but there's another spot at the Free University of Berlin that has actually the note card from President Kennedy's speech that everybody kids about that when he said, ich bin ein Berliner, saying he was a type of jelly donut. But what he was really saying was, I am one of you. I understand you. And we in the United States live the values that you're trying to achieve, and that is freedom and self determination. So we have a long history of that. And yet today seemed like something, it was surreal. It was out of the ordinary.

[Jim Acosta]

Twilight Zone. Yeah, twilight. And, you know, bringing up Reagan. It's interesting. I was in Helsinki when Trump was with Vladimir Putin. And you juxtapose the way Trump all but got on his knees with Vladimir Putin and Helsinki, you juxtapose that with the way he beat up on Zelensky today. I mean, it is, it is rather revealing and it makes you wonder what is going on. And I've asked this countless times, you know, over the years, what in the hell is going on with Donald Trump, Vladimir Putin? I mean, it's just. It's just the damnedest thing. And maybe at some point we're all going to figure it out and it's all going to be revealed and it'll be laid out in front of us. But there's just, anytime Russia's involved, Putin's involved. The way Trump behaves gives the upper hand to Vladimir Putin. It's just every time, I can't think of a time, maybe somebody can think of a time when that wasn't the case. But it just seems like at every turn he's doing things that favor Vladimir Putin. And today was just another one of those examples.

[Mark Hertling]

Yeah. Well, I'll give a shout out to Ruth Benjiyat, who's written a book about strongmen. And I think that's an interesting dynamic. If you read that book, it tells you how a lot of the strongmen, the authoritarians of the world, have a lot in common and they just reinforce one another. And I don't want to buy into conspiracy theories or say anything, but it sure seems, sure seems like there's something amiss here. Don't know what it is, but it doesn't make a whole lot of sense that two countries that have distinctly different approaches and worldviews are seemingly coming together when those where we used to have great friendships with, like Ukraine, seem to be divided. And I don't get it. I honestly don't get it. The thing that concerns me the most, Jim, again, I'm going back to the notes I received from some of my former allies and partners in Europe is they're concerned not only about today, but they're concerned about what's next. I just wrote an article two days ago about the various frozen conflicts in Europe that Mr. Putin has all either generated or sustained and supported. And there's five of them out there. No one knows what they are. You know, you talk to the American public about Transnistria or Nagano, Karabakh or Abkhazia and South Ossetia in Georgia, there's not a whole lot of people that say, what are you talking about? Well, that's where Russia has inserted itself and now they've inserted itself in its biggest prize and that's Ukraine. And if we're allowing them to continue on, they're going to lick their wounds, they're going to rearm, refuel and refit and in a couple of years they're going to be back doing it again because they got away with it one more time.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah. And Eugene Vindman was making this point that Ukraine has been fighting on behalf of Europe in defense of Europe. Do you share that view?

[Mark Hertling]

I absolutely do, absolutely. And not just since 2022. You know, I had just left Europe in 2013 when, you know, the first invasion of the little green, the so called little green men came in. We all knew who they were, but you couldn't say it. And this was the first approach by Putin to say, how far could I go? And when they're not fighting on the battlefield, they're doing cyber attacks against Estonia or election interference in Moldova or name that tune throughout the rest of the European footprint. And when you say who's doing that? It's mother Russia and Mr. Putin. So, yeah, Ukraine has fought for three years and has significantly degraded the Russian military and the Russian economy to stand up for what they stand for. And I'm sorry I'm getting emotional about this, but today was infuriating to me. I'm trying to be as professional as I can as a soldier on your show here, but I got to tell you, I know a lot of people are shaking their head and there are some on the right who are saying this was the greatest thing going because. Mr. You know, President Trump stood up to a guy who's been milking us for money when they don't really understand even what's going on over there. You know, Zelensky came to going back to one of the things you said, Zelensky came to the White House. For the last three years he has been going to cities throughout Ukraine and seeing his dead citizens not soldiers, but citizens who have been killed through Russian war crimes. He has been, you know, transiting through other countries throughout the world to try and generate assistance. And the one country that should be 100% behind him, he came here today and was rebuffed. And it's just infuriating.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah, Well, I don't blame you for getting emotional about this. I get emotional about it, too. And I'll tell you, I, and I've talked about this on my show. You know, I've interviewed members of the Ukrainian military. There are two Ukrainian fighter pilots that I interviewed. Their nicknames were Moonfish and Juice. And they've both been killed. They're both gone. Yeah. I've interviewed a member of the Special Forces over there, Andrea. She came on my show, brought us a metal coin that was made out of the, the metal that came from a blown up Russian tank. And they are remarkable people. They just, they're just a remarkable, remarkable people. And I just don't understand why folks on the right can't put the pieces of the puzzle together. If Ukraine falls, Putin is going to want something else next. There's just, that's just how he's wired and how you.

[Mark Hertling]

Let me stop you right there. People on the right don't put it together. In looking at the Oval Office meeting, you had Marco Rubio, Secretary Rubio slinking into a couch. You had national, he disappeared. You had national Security Advisor waltz behind Vice President Vance smiling. Both of those guys went to Ukraine. And during the early stages of the war. Oh, yeah, we support Ukraine. They're fighting for freedom. What happened A couple of minutes before Zelensky went into the Oval Office, there was a bipartisan picture that's now on the Internet with literally Lindsey Graham and Amy Klobuchar, you know, Right. With Zelensky taking the happy snap. What's going to happen tomorrow with all of those congressmen and senators that supported zelensky, now that Mr. Trump, President Trump has made, you know, a spectacle of negotiations. And I don't know what's going to happen, but I think we should all be watching and hold them to account tomorrow. And I'm not sure many people are going to do that.

[Jim Acosta]

Well, and apparently Lindsey Graham has already said, well, Zelinsky should, you know, step down. If he can't change his ways, if he can't go and, you know, essentially bend the knee and beg for this money, maybe he should go by the wayside. I mean, Lindsey Graham used to be a wingman of John McCain. Right. If John McCain were alive today, he would be ripping Donald Trump a new one. He would just be ripping Donald Trump a new one. And probably some of the other folks in the Oval Office today too, who deserved it. And I just, it's sort of like, you know, for as much as they, they beat their chest over there on the right and they think they're the tough guys, why is it they're never the tough guys with Vladimir Putin? It just seems to me like here's an, here's an open opportunity to be the tough guy and, and they just can't do it with the Russians.

[Mark Hertling]

Yeah. You know, Jim, it's interesting because having, again, I'll go back to my time in Europe, I saw a lot of representatives, congressional delegations, CODELs, even State Department officials. And it seems like sometimes, and this is, I'm not trying to denigrate anybody, but it seems sometimes there's a lot of people who play diplomacy when they go over to foreign countries, but they don't understand the people they're dealing with. Putin is a friggin killer. He's a murderer. He is not up for the reset buttons by Secretary Clinton or the, you know, let's play diplomacy and sign a peace agreement from President Trump.

[Jim Acosta]

He's a butcher.

[Mark Hertling]

He's a butcher. He hasn't lived up to anything over the last 20 years he's been in office and yet we still play with him like we're playing by marquee rules. It makes no sense to me because you would think that these individuals who are put in these positions would have an understanding of who they're dealing with and what it means. If you talk to any former Warsaw Pact country or CIS country that used to be under the dominion of the Soviet Union, they will tell you Russia is bad, they're horrible. Ukraine has a great culture and a great population and great citizenry. They are not Russians and they know it. And they want freedom from that kind of oppression and being put under the thumb. Anyway, I'm getting emotional again. Sorry.

[Jim Acosta]

No, well, I think all of your comments have been excellent and that's why I wanted to get you in here, Mark, because to me it just raises a very, I think, stubborn question for where we are right now. And I think the question is, would Donald Trump ever speak to Vladimir Putin the way he spoke to Volodymyr Zelensky today?

[Mark Hertling]

No.

[Jim Acosta]

The answer is no. There's no way in hell he would ever do that. He just would never do it. And I guess maybe it shows you who the real bully is. I mean, I don't know it's pretty shameful, but Mark, great to see you. General Hurtland, great to see you. As always, appreciate the passion that you bring to this subject and we'll be, we'll be continuing to watch. You're absolutely right. Be fascinating to see what some of our elected officials say in the coming days after this. Yeah, a shameful display.

[Mark Hertling]

I'm with you. Thanks, Jim. Appreciate it.

[Jim Acosta]

Good to see you. Have a great weekend. Thank you.

[Mark Hertling]

Thank you.

[Jim Acosta]

All the best. I, I think the world of Mark hurling. I just, I, I just love the way he, he calls it out. And you need that, you just need that especially for the people who come from, you know, our, our best and brightest and finest of the, of the armed forces of the United States. I was going to mention one other thing and, and that is another thing that was shameful today. And I, I, I know I've been going off on the way they've been handling the press over at the White House. But I'm going to do it again. I'm going to end this week by once again asking the question what in the hell is going on with the White House press office? I guess the press secretary, she has no, she either doesn't understand how the world works or can't push back on the people who are telling her what do, I don't know. But this is according to Andrew Feinberg from the Independent newspaper. He covers the White House. You've been hearing about all this back and forth between the White House and the White House press pool. The White House wanting to hand pick who gets to be in the press pool. Oh, but we'll let the TV networks continue to cover everything because we have to have the TV cameras in there. But today he, this is what Andrew Feinberg tweeted. He says among the hand picked folks the White House is letting into the Oval Office with Trump and Zelensky today is a correspondent from Tassel, the Russian state news agency. And then Nandita Bose of Reuters tweeted this quote, can confirm White House is letting in a reporter from Russian state news agency tasked to cover the bilat between Trump and Zelensky. Reuters and AP were excluded. I shouldn't laugh, but you're excluding the Associated Press. And then you're letting in Tass, the Russian news agency. And I mean, I'm sorry but that's like, you know, you know, if you don't think anybody can out Fox, Fox, it might be the Russian state media. I mean they, they really do ask the dear leader questions at every turn. And Apparently Andrew said that once, you know, things were brought to the White House attention, they didn't let the task guy in or they got him out of there. Something along those lines. But I'm sorry, but what is going on at the White House, Ladies and gentlemen, please, you, you represent us. Our tax dollars are paying your salaries. You don't exclude the AP and let in the Russians over at the White House. I'm, you know, I just, I, I just don't understand it. It just seems to me that, you know, once again, this is from the Dear Leader Files, one of my recurring segments on this program. And this would certainly fit into that category. And I guess the last thing I want to say, and I'll let everybody go, go off to your weekend. And I just want to wondering if folks could just think about this question. And you know, the question has been asked of me, oh, well, Jim, are you just talking to folks who tend to agree with you or might have similar viewpoints? And that's, I suppose that's true. I do think there are some folks who do to watch this. They've been playing some, some of my segments on fox. I don't know if you've heard about this, but they've been playing and apparently it really frustrates them to no end that I'm still doing a show and that this show is getting a lot of attention and we're at 11, 000 viewers right now. We tend to get 150 to 200, 000 viewers after the recording goes out there. So make sure you watch the recording, too. I put all that out there just because I think that enrages the FOX people, too. But you know, the question that I think needs to be asked and this goes to my thought about is it just folks who agree watching this? If you're all going out into your weekend plans and you're going to be dealing with relatives, friends, folks who might support Trump and so on, Ask them a couple questions. One is, were you proud? Were you proud of your president today? Were you proud of your president today? And then I think, ask this question, is this us? Is this who we are? Are we the kind of country that, that welcomes the leader of a vulnerable nation to our White House and then beats him up and sends him packing, sends him on his way? Are we that country? Is that who we are? It's a simple question. Ask that of your friends who may have voted for the current president. Is this us? Thanks, everybody, for watching this week. My thanks to the congressman Eugene Vindman My thanks also to General Mark Hertling, who always just tells it like he sees it. And it is just always great to talk to him as well. Really appreciate his time. Thank you. And to all of you, I just. Oh, one other quick thing. This is one month, I forgot to mention this. This is one month of the Jim Acosta show here on Substack. I really, really do appreciate everybody watching. And I see the chat comments coming through, and it is, it is just so gratifying to me to see everybody getting involved, getting engaged, passionate about all of these issues, passionate about what's happening to this country. You know, I don't know if anybody remembers this, but a couple of months ago, you know, folks were saying, oh, gosh, everybody's just so disengaged. They're so exhausted. They can't be involved anymore. They just, they just can't. I can't take it anymore. Guess what? Everybody is back. Americans are coming back. They're getting re engaged. And they appreciate asking the hard questions. And it's because of the support you give me that I want to keep going and keep asking those hard questions. So thank you so much. Really appreciate it. And once again, still reporting, I'm Jim Acosta. I'll see you next week. Take care.