Democracy warrior David Pepper on Trump cheating to keep GOP in power and Doctor Rob Davidson on RFK Jr's anti-vax nuttiness. Plus Tommy Christopher on WH press corps.

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Jim Acosta Show

Title: Democracy Warrior David Pepper on Trump Cheating to Keep GOP in Power and Doctor Rob Davidson on RFK Jr's Anti-Vax Nuttiness. Plus Tommy Christopher on WH Press Corps
Host: Jim Acosta
Release Date: August 12, 2025
Description: Don't give into the lies. Don't give into fear. Hold on to the truth. And hope. jimacosta.substack.com

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1. Introduction

Jim Acosta kicks off the episode by addressing the ongoing political turmoil surrounding Donald Trump's alleged cover-up of the Epstein affair. He highlights Trump's strategy of creating distractions, such as the federal takeover of the D.C. Police Department and midterm gerrymandering efforts in states like Texas and Indiana.

2. Gerrymandering and Its Threat to Democracy

Guest: David Pepper, former Chairman of the Ohio Democratic Party

David Pepper delves into the urgent issue of gerrymandering, emphasizing its detrimental impact on democracy. He draws parallels between current gerrymandering tactics and the “big lie” efforts post-November 2020, stating:

“It's an assault on democracy that mirrors the big lie effort after November 2020 and should be treated as such.” (01:29)

Pepper explains how Republicans are manipulating congressional maps preemptively to secure seats, drawing attention to recent moves in Texas and Indiana:

“They are using this summer to try and rig these elections.” (02:50)

He warns that such actions normalize gerrymandering, making it easier for these tactics to be accepted and perpetuated across various states.

3. The Implications of Trump’s Distractions

Jim Acosta discusses Trump's attempts to divert attention from the Epstein files through actions like federalizing the D.C. police and gerrymandering. He questions the feasibility of these distractions allowing Trump to evade accountability.

“Can he make this such a mess that we won't know how to untangle this?” (05:28)

David Pepper responds by highlighting the broader implications of continuous gerrymandering, suggesting it leads to a world devoid of fair democratic practices. He advocates for legislative reforms like the For the People Act to end gerrymandering:

“We need to treat this like the Texas Democrats are. This is not just normal gerrymandering as bad as this. This is a midstream, full-out assault on democracy before an election that can knock them out of power.” (04:32)

4. Competitive Autocracy and Election Rigging

Pepper introduces the concept of "competitive autocracy," a term borrowed from Viktor Orban’s playbook, where elections exist but are manipulated to ensure predetermined outcomes.

“Their model does not cancel elections. It’s attempt to tilt the results.” (10:06)

He stresses the importance of active political engagement to counter these manipulative practices, urging Democrats to "fight like hell" in upcoming elections to prevent democratic erosion.

5. The Role of State Houses in Democratic Assault

David Pepper emphasizes the critical role state houses play in the broader assault on democracy. He critiques Democrats for previously neglecting state-level races, allowing Republicans to dominate and implement harmful policies without adequate opposition.

“The front line in their assault on democracy are the state houses of this country.” (14:56)

He calls for Democrats to run candidates in every statehouse seat, even in heavily red districts, to introduce accountability and increase voter turnout.

6. Public Health Under Fire: RFK Jr. and Vaccine Misinformation

Guests: Dr. Rob Davidson

Jim Acosta transitions to public health concerns, focusing on RFK Jr.'s actions within the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS). Dr. Rob Davidson discusses the implications of RFK Jr.'s anti-vaccine stance, particularly regarding the cancellation of federally funded mRNA vaccine development.

“These are the types of vaccines that saved possibly hundreds of thousands, maybe millions of lives during the pandemic.” (30:21)

Dr. Davidson explains how undermining mRNA technology could have dire consequences for future pandemics and treatments for diseases like cancer:

“They are denying the advancements that have saved millions of lives and could save even more in the future.” (34:56)

He also addresses the broader impact on public health workers and institutions, highlighting the personal toll and the increasing politicization of healthcare.

“People working public health are becoming enemies of a large group of people with disastrous effects.” (44:21)

7. The State of the White House Press Corps

Guest: Tommy Christopher

Tommy Christopher provides a critical analysis of Trump's recent press conference, highlighting the lack of accountability questions posed by journalists regarding the Epstein affair and other major issues.

“Not a single question about Epstein… Nobody asked about that.” (48:12)

Christopher criticizes the press corps for avoiding tough questions and being too deferential to Trump, exacerbating the president’s ability to deflect scrutiny.

“They are scared shitless. And... these questions are crying out to be asked.” (50:16)

He underscores the need for reporters to remain adversarial to uphold democratic accountability.

8. The Crucial Importance of the Upcoming Midterms

Jim Acosta and David Pepper discuss the significance of the upcoming midterm elections, emphasizing that complacency could lead to prolonged democratic deficits.

Pepper draws historical parallels, noting:

“The fight we put up right now in this election... can make this a memory. If we don't fight well, the craziness of the times can set in as a new normal.” (20:13)

They advocate for heightened voter engagement and strategic campaigning to counteract Republican gerrymandering and ensure a robust democratic process.

9. Concluding Remarks

Jim Acosta wraps up the episode by reiterating the critical nature of combating democratic threats posed by Trump's actions and the GOP's strategies. He calls for listeners to stay vigilant, engaged, and proactive in upcoming elections to safeguard democracy.

“Complacency is no longer an option... This is a moment to engage. This is a moment to get tough.” (27:18)

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Notable Quotes:

• David Pepper: “It's an assault on democracy that mirrors the big lie effort after November 2020 and should be treated as such.” (01:29)

• David Pepper: “They know that they're in trouble in the House. And just like after November of 20th, they've got their eyes on the states where they think they can squeeze out not victories by the voters, but seats for themselves that they can't lose.” (02:50)

• Tommy Christopher: “Not a single question about Epstein… Nobody asked about that.” (48:12)

• Dr. Rob Davidson: “These are the types of vaccines that saved possibly hundreds of thousands, maybe millions of lives during the pandemic.” (30:21)

• Jim Acosta: “This is a moment to engage. This is a moment to get tough.” (27:18)

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Conclusion

In this episode, Jim Acosta engages with prominent guests to dissect the multifaceted threats to American democracy, from gerrymandering and Trump's distracting tactics to the undermining of public health institutions. The discussion underscores the urgency for active political participation and resistance against strategies that erode democratic foundations. Listeners are encouraged to remain informed, question authority, and participate vigorously in the electoral process to ensure the preservation of democratic norms and public health advancements.

Transcript

[Jim Acosta]

Welcome to the Jim Acosta show. And it's another day that ends in Y and Donald Trump's cover up of the Epstein affair. He is so frightened of the Epstein files being revealed, he is cooking up distraction after distraction like the federal takeover of the D.C. police Department as well as his midterm gerrymandering power grab prodding Republicans in Texas and various other states to redraw their congressional maps. My first guest today is a, a big time warrior for democracy. You recognize him, David Pepper. He is the former chairman of the Ohio Democratic Party. He writes pepperspectives. I hope I said that right here on Substack. And plus you've written a democracy, a user's manual, something we could all use these day, these days. David, great to see you. How are you?

[David Pepper]

I'm great. How are you doing? Good to be with you.

[Jim Acosta]

I'm doing fine, I'm doing fine. Thank you so much. Really appreciate it. You know, let's dive right into this stuff. I mean, there's a lot to tackle. I mean, I do want to get into Trump and what he's doing in D.C. throwing out all of these distractions. But the gerrymandering business that is going on, to me, it's an emergency. It is an emergency for our democracy that is unfolding as we speak. And you wrote about this, you said of the gerrymandering that is going on in Texas and potentially other states like Indiana. This is where you said, quote, it's an assault on democracy that mirrors the big lie effort after November 2020 and should be treated as such. Let's talk about it. What do you mean?

[David Pepper]

Yeah, so I, we're so used to gerrymandering and in Ohio, it's destroyed our state. It's destroyed sort of any kind of semblance of fair democracy. So in a way, when we see what they started in Texas, it feels like that. But, and this really occur and I was thinking about, I mean, I, I don't like Gerrymann wherever it happens, whoever does it. So I, I had it in my mind, in that bucket. But when I saw Vance go to Indiana, and I'll be going to Indiana on Sunday in part because I was so excited to see Indiana democracy folks protesting Vance's visit. And I want to urge them on. But when Vance went to Indiana and met with the governor and went to meet with legislators to get them to gerrymander Indiana to get rid of the two Democratic seats there, that's when I thought, this is the build up to January 6th all over again. Remember When Trump was inviting Pennsylvania state reps to the White House to tell them to fix the Electoral College problem, meaning he lost, or calling Raffensperger or calling the governor of Arizona, he knew exactly where he had lost and he wanted the outcome reversed to give him a win. And this is the same thing. The problem is it looks different because they're trying to avert losses before they happen.

[Jim Acosta]

Yes.

[David Pepper]

They know that they're in trouble in the House. And just like after November of 20th, they've got their eyes on the states where they think they can squeeze out not victories by the voters, but seats for themselves that they can't lose. And just in that, just like that two month period, November through January of 2021, they are using this summer to try and rig these elections. So the difference between now and and then is two. One, they're trying to do it before the elections as opposed to after. And here's the part that worries me. What they were asking then was a, was a tougher ask, hey, can you undo the Electoral College loss in your state that was so late and ugly and public that there were a lot of Republicans to their credit, that said, no, we can't do that here. They're asking for something that these Republicans do all the time, which is gerrymander. And so the scary thing for me is this is an ask of these state houses of something that they do and that's all they've ever done. And half of them, it's the only way they've known politics. So I worry that although this is as dark as that, we see it as sort of normal gerrymandering. And the people being asked to do it will be far as we see in Texas already, far more likely go along. Which all this is. And I'll wrap up in a second. All this is to say we need to treat this like the Texas Democrats are. This is not just normal gerrymandering as bad as this. This is a midstream, full out assault on democracy before an election that can knock them out of power. They see it that way, they're plotting it that way. We have to react the same way or we will lose.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah. No. When Trump said the other day that he was entitled to five seats in Texas, you're not entitled to anything. You have to go out and win the midterms with the congressional M.A. as it stands, unless there's something ludicrous that has to be redone, that passes legal muster. But obviously this doesn't. And he's freaked out about Jeffrey Epstein. He's freaked out about the political impact of the so called big beautiful bill, which is turning out to be a big ugly blunder. But my question is whether or not they can get away with it, David. I mean, quite frankly, I think in Texas, I was talking to Colin Allred yesterday who's running for the Senate down in Texas. He says ultimately they may get away with this and claw back these seats, which means it's game on. California will try to do the same thing. New York will try to do the same thing. This will all get tied up in the courts and I suppose may go to the Supreme Court. I'm worried he's going to make this such a hot mess that we won't know how to untangle this.

[David Pepper]

Yeah. And so longer term, I really do worry about a world where everybody gerrymanders. It's yes, that is a world of no democracy. So I hate that we're in this moment. But I also think there's a lot we have to do what we can talk about it. To sit back and let him steal five Democratic five Democratic seats in Texas and do nothing anywhere else is a recipe for just giving away the store. So I do think Gavin Newsom saying carefully listen, we don't want to, we don't want a midstream mid decade gerrymander, but we have no choice if you, you do this with five seats. If we don't respond in kind, we are just accepting having our democracy upended. But I like the fact that they're at least making it conditional. And my other hope longer term is this does give some impetus to say the better world from everybody gerrymandering is a world where nobody does. So let's bring back to the Congress the for the People act that would have ended gerrymandering. But the one other thing we have to be clear, and I did this on the whiteboard I did earlier today, not only are they doing this for the reasons I've described, they are now gaslighting. And JD Vance was on TV shows on Sunday saying we're only doing this because they gerrymander. We're not gerrymandering mid decade. Not a single Democratic state in the last year has said we're gonna gerrymander anew or we're gonna district anew. When we had votes in Congress and gerrymandering all Democrats voted to end, Republicans voted not to, and then they filibustered it. The biggest Supreme Court case on gerrymandering, basically. I hate to say this, the any hope that the federal courts will Help here will not happen. The Supreme Court in Rucho, which was a 2018 case where North Carolina were Republicans were literally caught doing what Trump did. They, they literally said, we get 10 seats no matter what because we're the better party. The Supreme Court said even in such an egregious circumstance, courts don't even have jurisdiction to hear the case. But even in that case, Democratic attorneys general went to the Supreme Court and said, we don't want gerrymandering. And all the Republicans said, we don't think courts should hear it. So over the last 10 years, it's very clear Democrats have even changed the rules in their own states and are now sort of paying a price for this by ending gerrymandering. So my hope is if it gets ugly enough, because there does have to be a pushback, that maybe longer term, it gives him impetus to say through a constitutional amendment or through legislation, let's just have a system where neither Texas nor Blue stake and gerrymander. That's the best result. But in the short term, we've got to stand up to what is not just a gerrymandering battle, but a deeper assault on democracy. That looks a lot like, as I said, the Pre build to January 6th.

[Jim Acosta]

No, I mean, you can't let Trump steal, just go and steal five seats in Texas without responding. I mean, I think that's why Kathy Hochul has said this. That's why Gavin Newsom has said what he has said. You know, you can't just unilaterally disarm. I mean, that allows an assault on democracy to take place. So you've got the whiteboard. Is there anything you could show us on the whiteboard?

[David Pepper]

Yes. So the whiteboard demonstrates me earlier today just pointing to different states showing that in 2020, they had their four or five target states. In 2020, 25, they have different target states. It's the same strategy. It's the same before election versus after election strategy.

[Jim Acosta]

Well, and Trump, of course, has learned all the wrong lessons. He got elected back into the White House despite his efforts to overturn the 2020 election, which landed him in legal hot water. And had it not been for the Supreme Court, he, who knows what might have happened with that case. But you're absolutely. I remember, you know, talking to Brad Raffensperger about this. I mean, Trump literally tried to steal the election in Georgia. We all remember, you know, the, the governor in Arizona, his phone going off in that infamous press conference or whatever it was. And you, you could hear the phone just going off and It's Trump calling. I mean, so he's obviously doing this again. The question I have is whether he can make this such a mess. And maybe you can answer this, maybe you can't, that there will be an attempt to postpone the midterms, that the Republicans who are holding the leadership positions in Congress will attempt to postpone the seating of a new Congress. Could we get into that kind of a doomsday scenario or is that just too far fetched? Did the court step in and say that?

[David Pepper]

So anything's possible, obviously, with Trump. But my view is, and I wrote a chapter on this in this new book I've written, the second edition to Saving Democracy. I think it's dangerous when we all start to tell ourselves, oh, they're not going to have another election. Because if you look closely at the model they are following right out of Viktor Orban's playbook, it's called competitive autocracy. And competitive autocracy has elections. They want to be able to claim the legitimacy and mandate of elections. They want to say we won. So their model does not cancel elections. At least that's not what the competitive autocracy, you know, that they have been studying and modeling for years does. It basically does what we're seeing now, which is we have elections, but they do everything in their power to predetermine the outcome through gerrymandering, voter suppression, voter intimidation, maybe by having troops in certain blue areas.

[Jim Acosta]

Right.

[David Pepper]

And so my attitude is, knowing their model, that it inc. It generally includes elections, but it's attempt to tilt the results. We have to be fired up for these elections and we have to fight like hell. Like right now, every time we see them adopting a, quote, competitive autocracy practice that will tilt the elections in their favor. And that's why it's great that Texas Democrats have left. We should help them not go back. It's great that certain governors are saying, if you do it there, we're doing it here. Because their goal in the end is to have elections, but to have results that they know they're going to win. And so we need to be energized and show up in bigger numbers than ever. When we say to ourselves, they may not have elections, we may voter suppress ourselves and not care because we think it's over, we need to say no. No, the model they use does have elections, but they rigged them. We gotta get involved whenever we see that happening. And then we gotta organize and show up bigger than ever to win the elections we're gonna have. So that's my take on it?

[Jim Acosta]

No. And I think the Democrats have to be smart about this and to some extent take a page out of Donald Trump's playbook. Remember when he was all that legal hot water, his attorneys, like Todd Blanche, like Emel Beauvais, did everything by hook or by crook to delay proceedings, to request, you know, various proceedings to take place that just delayed the process. Delayed the process just enough where the clock just ran out and Trump wasn't held accountable. I think those kinds of same tactics should be employed by the Democrats as we go into this. So the state lawmakers fleeing Texas absolutely makes sense in that regard. And so you almost have to duplicate what he's done in the past. The thing that you just mentioned a few moments ago about putting police officers or troops outside polling stations, it does remind me of something. I saw a very disturbing story in the Washington Post today that says that the Trump administration is evaluating plans that would establish a domestic civil disturbance quick reaction force composed of hundreds of National Guard troops tasked with rapidly deploying into American cities facing protests or other unrest. This is according to internal Pentagon documents review by the Washington Post. I mean, this is just nutty, dystopian handmaid's tale type stuff, but it makes me wonder, do they try these kinds of intimidation tactics outside of polling stations? Perhaps they put ice outside of polling stations to discourage Latino people from voting and so on.

[David Pepper]

Yeah, I think that that is something that, you know. So I wrote this book last year called 2025 and I was imagining trying to scare people to voting, not for Trump, what would happen if he won. And I hate to say it, so much of, if you read this book, which was fiction, so much of it's happening, it's quite predictable. What you just described, I think is quite predictable. The difference between 2017 and 20 and now is Trump always wanted to have military cover protests. He wants that crackdown. The difference between now and then is he, he, you know, he was surrounded by people then, to their credit, who sometimes would stand up. Generals said, no, we're not sending troops to monitor protests. Now he's got lemmings like Hegseth who clearly eagerly go along. So I do think we need to be prepared for that stuff. Yeah, they are crossing red lines right and left. He clearly, the DC Thing is clearly, you know, cooking up crime numbers to justify a power grab. And I'm sure we're going to see that in other cities. Can I say one quick thing back to the real quick?

[Jim Acosta]

No. Yeah, please. I know. Yeah.

[David Pepper]

So one thing I really Want to emphasize. And this gets back to my books, this whiteboard. Here's our. Our mistake for 30 years has been not seeing. And this is why I wrote the first book I wrote nonfiction was Laboratories of Autocracy. That the front line in their assault on democracy are the state houses of this country.

[Jim Acosta]

Yes.

[David Pepper]

Democrats have largely focused on federal races in swing states and decided years ago, don't worry about the state houses. They're not that central. We can't win them anyway, so who cares? And what happens in that situation is who's doing the gerrymandering? The Texas state house Republicans. They're the ones who do it. The Indiana state has Republicans, the Ohio state has Republicans. And largely until very recently, we don't run against half these people. We literally let them do the worst things and they don't face an opponent the next November. So of course they're gonna keep doing them. So in addition to whatever we have to do in blue states to counter it.

[Jim Acosta]

Interesting.

[David Pepper]

In addition to having Texas Democrats go to Illinois. Our number one response to all of this should be, we are running against all the Texas Republicans who are voting for those awful maps and we're going to run hard and we're going to talk about Medicaid cuts and the destruction of schools. Because until we make going back to accountability, until we make them feel in their own next elections, accountability again, most of the extremism in this country is passing through the red districts of state houses, not Congress. All the attacks on abortion, that was a Texas and Mississippi law that led to the crazy things we've seen. And we don't run against half these people. So we have to play defense like the blue governors are doing. We have to play defense like the Texas Democrats leading what's offense. It's going right at them in the red states where they're doing the damage and making them feel, even if they win, they that for the first time in their careers, someone knocked on the doors of every neighbor and said, you legislator is the one who destroyed our public schools through private vouchers, destroyed Medicaid and is chasing women out of Texas because she's searching reproductive freedom. That's how we get on offense to stop a lot of this stuff. And that's the shift we have to make longer term to get back the democracy we're losing in all these places.

[Jim Acosta]

David, that is such. I mean, that's an excellent point and I think you're absolutely right. I think there are probably a lot of people who live in red states who maybe live in a state Senate district or a state representative district and say, oh, well, this person's won the last 15, 20 years. There's no way this person is going to lose. Why should I bother? But Trump and the Republican Party brand could be so toxic come this time next year that in some districts, in some state Senate districts and state rep districts, you're absolutely right. Many of those lawmakers could be highly vulnerable in ways that people just did not imagine to be the case. I mean, I remember when Barack Obama won in 2008, he had massive coattails in turning over the Congress, and it resulted in a whole slew of Democratic lawmakers in the House and the Senate winning in places that were just not contemplated, were not thought to be likely. And you're absolutely right. The same thing could happen in these state races. The other thing I want to get into, by the way, real quick, yeah, please jump in.

[David Pepper]

Don't beat them. Running against them is better than silence. You want them to think, even if it's a gerrymander district, that they're probably going to win that by having the Democrat run. I want them to hear from their neighbors, man, I thought you were the nice guy in the parade. I didn't think you voted for all this. So there's a measure of accountability just from running. It also lifts turnout, by the way, so Colin Allred isn't stuck in a state where half the districts aren't even being competed in. But the run itself is public service, even if you lose in a world where these uncontested races are poising democracies. So running alone brings accountability that they otherwise just never face. They're reappointed, essentially, and not even reelected in a lot of these places.

[Jim Acosta]

Well, the couch is not the alternative in these upcoming midterms.

[David Pepper]

Right?

[Jim Acosta]

I mean, you know, and in these state and these state races, I mean, there's one coming up in Virginia this fall, there's one coming up in New Jersey in this fall. And I was driving around the hollers of Virginia today. I was picking up my dad. He was out in West Virginia, of all places. We were driving back through Strasbourg and there were these winsome Sears, a couple of winsome Sears. She's gonna lose badly to Abigail Spanberger. Now, people might be under the assumption that because Abigail's gonna cruise to victory come this fall, that they don't need to get out and vote in some of these state representative or state Senate races. That's not true. You have to go out and vote. There is no other alternative because of These exact dynamics that you're talking about. And I think you're absolutely right. This message has to get out in ways that they just have not gotten out before. That voting really might be. I mean, we say this every election. This is the most important election of our lifetime. This might be the most important midterm cycle that I can think of in a very long time.

[David Pepper]

Yeah, let me say on that that one of the real lessons for everybody is that guess what? We're not the first generation of Americans. That we are not the first generation Americans that didn't have to worry about the state of democracy. I think we kind of thought we were. And what we are in the middle of is the same battle for democracy that's been our entire nation's history. And people before us have overcome worse challenges to democracy. The abolitionists, the suffragists, the civil rights heroes, we have a grab the baton from them. It has always been a struggle. But one of the most important points going to your midterm point, the length of the dark, the darkness, the length of the suppression of democracy depends often on how fierce the pushback is. Immediately. What we are living through can last for two or four years. Or like with Jim Crow, 80 years. And what often determines how long the window of darkness is? Is there a pushback right away or do people quit when people quit on the New south and reconstruction, it led to Jim Crow for almost a century. So the fight we put up right now in this election in Virginia, you mentioned next year, if we succeed, we can literally avoid, for my young kids, decades of being in the same fight. We can make this a memory. If we don't fight well, if we disintegrate, if we kind of give up or roll over, the craziness of the times can set in as a new normal. And all of a sudden it settles in for far longer. So history tells us that the fight we put up right now can determine whether this moment of darkness, like many others in the past and is shorter long term. And that's why winning in 25, winning in 26, has a massive impact on the longer term history. That's, that's going to come.

[Jim Acosta]

Well, no, there's no question about that. And then there's also the prospect of the Supreme Court going 7:2 MAGA. If it goes 7:2 mega, folks. I mean, you, you might as well. I mean, I don't want to say kiss things goodbye, but you might want to start putting on some lipstick, because if that Supreme Court starts going MAGA to the degree of Seven to two. I don't know what happens to a whole lot of rights, civil rights, that people have enjoyed in this country ever since I've been alive. I have to ask you, since you're an Ohio guy, David, your thoughts on Sherrod Brown? The news coming out today, I don't think he's confirmed it yet. Forgive me if I've gotten that wrong, but I believe it's now been reported in the Cleveland newspaper that Sherrod Brown is gonna run to get his old or to get a seat back in the United States Senate. Possible. Ohio's gotten very red. What do you think?

[David Pepper]

So it's funny, you're a reporter, so you know that I'd be getting calls all day asking me to confirm. And I'm like, I just am not into the inner, inner circle enough to confirm. But I'm reading what you're reading. Let me just put it this way. We have a wonderful candidate for governor named Amy Actins. She's running against Vivek Ramaswamy. She's a public health doctor. She's been tied in the polls. She is the highest job approval rating in the state of Ohio of anybody, Republican or Democrat. She's at plus 10. Trump's at negative three. Sherrod overperformed the top of the ticket in 2024 by eight points. He lost by three. By eight. We had the possibility, and I don't say this lightly, of the single best ticket we've had since 2006, when we won almost every office in the state of Ohio. And the other thing, when Shared won, Ted Strickland won. The other thing we have in common, not only do we have a great top of the ticket with Dr. Acton and Sherrod, if he runs. 2006 was the second term of an unpopular Republican president. That's what we'll be in in 26. So going back to our overall theme, we've got a great top of the ticket. Now. What do we have to do? Run in every statehouse seat? Really just storm the place with candidates everywhere. Talk about the Medicaid cuts and the attacks on schools and the gerrymandering in the food deserts. And I think we have the makings if we do. Well, it's not set yet, but we can do this. Of the potential pushback and turning Ohio blue like we did 20 years ago. I think that's a potential. If things keep moving the direction that we're seeing.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah. And I do think, you know, Trump is only going to be able to delay this Epstein thing for Too long. There are legal groups getting involved, involved attempting to sue. I may be talking to one of the, one of them tomorrow to get their hands on these Epstein files. And I mean, you talk about if we have the documentation or some kind of evidence that shows why Donald Trump is so damn afraid of releasing those Epstein files. That plus you're absolutely right in places like Ohio, Medicaid being dismantled, you know, I mean, they, they told on themselves when they delayed some of those cuts until after the midterms. But this is, I used to think that Ohio is just like, just sort of gone off into the sunset like Tennessee maybe back in the 90s or something like that. But I don't know, I just, there's, there's some Midwesternness there that just remember.

[David Pepper]

Sherrod lost by three share, had lost three points in a Trump turnout and that.

[Jim Acosta]

But he was not a. Marino was not a great candidate.

[David Pepper]

Yeah, but the problem is one thing Republicans have done in Ohio is they are throwing new people and that helps. And one reason I think this, this candidate for governor, Amy Acton is so strong is she's not viewed as a politician. She was a doctor who helped people keep safe during the pandemic. Her job approval is very high. She's popular. And so Marino had that, that he wasn't an incumbent politician. Ah, Sharon still lost by only three. And that gives you some temperature that, you know, that was close. If it's a midterm where the, the, the, the, the momentum is with the Democrats with all the Medicaid stuff. And you're. I've been going to a. Visiting on a regular basis of a food bank in rural Ohio, almost an 8020 Trump county and people are lining up for food help snaps being cut emergency grants that allow this food bank to pay. So this is happening not just in urban Ohio, but those Medicaid cuts will take a toll in rural Ohio, as will other cuts, as will some of the tariffs on ag, you name it. So I think, you know, if, if the wind is at our back, I think both our governor candidate and Sherrod, if he runs, will have a real opportunity to win. And that would be great for Ohio and it would be great for the country. That could be the state that determines the makeup of the Senate. If Roy Cooper also runs very well in North Carolina.

[Jim Acosta]

That's. You're absolutely right. And, and depending on what Senate candidate you come up with in Texas, I mean, they had some very strong contenders at this point. But I, I like your enthusiasm, David. And I mean to me, I Think the. The message, if we could take one from this conversation, is that complacency is not an option. Everything is on the line in this. In this upcoming cycle.

[David Pepper]

Absolutely. The lesson of history is, you know, you're always in a battle for democracy. It's not some moment like John Lewis warned us. This when you lose, it is when you quit and get complacent. You keep fighting, and over time, if you do it well, you can overcome it. But fighting really hard in the next year and a half could literally alleviate our kids and grandkids of decades of being in the place we are right now. That's how important this next cycle is.

[Jim Acosta]

You're absolutely right. David Pepper, great to talk to you. Thank you so much. Really appreciate it. Check out David here on Substack and all of the books he's written. Just go on Amazon and type his name in there. You'll see all the books. And David, thanks as always. Let's do it again. Really appreciate that.

[David Pepper]

Thanks, Jim. Really appreciate it. Take care.

[Jim Acosta]

All right, good stuff. Love the whiteboard, too. Thanks as always. All right. Good to see you. That's David Pepper. And I've been wanting to get David on for some time because it's important to tie these threads together, folks. I mean, you have what took place in D.C. yesterday. It's still being rolled out today. I mean, it was just reported earlier this afternoon that 800 National Guard members started to arrive in the Capitol just, just a little while ago here in Washington, D.C. and, and this is, I mean, the implementation of Trump's takeover of D.C. they're calling it a takeover of the D.C. police Department. I mean, it really is a takeover. Washington, when you start to see members of the National Guard arriving for no damn reason, there's crime here. Yes. There's crime at other places. There's no question about it. Do we need the national guard of Washington, D.C. as you saw yesterday on this program, I was live from a public park. All I had behind me were people walking their dogs. I had Duke sleeping under a park bench. Obviously had nothing to worry about. My pal Olivia Troy, who was down by the White House, she was reporting on the tourists from the scene because nothing was going on. That was the point of us going out there, to show what a ludicrous endeavor this is. But it's Trump trying to distract from the Epstein files, and he is trying to get himself out of hot water here. There's no question about it. I do want to go very quickly over to my friend, Dr. Robert Davidson, Dr. Rob Davidson. Has been just doing fantastic work, talking to the public about public health issues for quite some time. Dr. Rob and I used to speak all the time back in the day during the COVID pandemic. And so he and I go back a ways, and he's starting up a new substack this week called Paging America. And you're going to see a lot of Dr. Rob, you know, getting great healthcare information out to the American people. One of the things that we have to talk about, obviously, and I'm going to plead guilty here, I have not been doing enough on RFK Jr. And his nuttiness over at HHS. That stops right now. Dr. Rob, great to see you, as always. Congrats. You're launching Paging America, I believe this week, Correct?

[Dr. Rob Davidson]

This week. Launched it. I believe today we launched a substack. We've been doing a podcast for a few months, kind of feeling out the territory, getting our feet wet, and hopefully shedding some light on all the ridiculousness at HHS and everything they're doing in Congress and the White House.

[Tommy Christopher]

Hurt.

[Dr. Rob Davidson]

Hurt my patients, frankly.

[Jim Acosta]

There's a lot of hurt going on right now. But, you know, the thing that we need to talk about, and it's something because of, you know, the summer of Jeffrey Epstein and everything else for Donald Trump, you know, a lot of stuff gets moved to the back burner. Not intentionally. It just. It just happens. But I. This has been on my mind because I covered the COVID pandemic from the White House right when. When you and I would speak from time to time. And Donald Trump just. Just royally effed that whole thing up. I mean, just the other day, RFK Jr announces that HHS is canceling at least $500 million in federally funded MRNA vaccine development. I mean, those are the types of vaccines that saved possibly hundreds of thousands, maybe millions of lives during the pandemic. And I was just going to mention Donald Trump said at the time in a speech delivered from the Oval Office, this is, quote, this is one of the greatest scientific accomplishments in history. It will save millions of lives and soon end the pandemic once and for all. For all the shit that I give Trump, right? That was one thing that, you know, that he kind of had, right? For all of the times he was undermining and everything else. But your thoughts.

[Dr. Rob Davidson]

I mean, he was insane when it came to mass, when it came to UV light in the body and bleach and all of that. And he doesn't. He doesn't understand vaccines or the development of vaccines. That's fine. Presidents don't need to do that. Right? They don't have to do that. I don't remember when the polio vaccine came out, but, you know, hopefully the White House knew nothing about that. But they said to their scientists, they said to the experts, how do we get rid of polio? And they said, here's what we do. And people lined up. And so they said to the experts, in 2020, how do we end this pandemic? How do we save millions of lives? And they said, we have this platform that's been around for a decade. We think it's ready for primetime. And it turns out it was. And we can develop a vaccine so fast, we can start to actually wipe this thing out. And they did save millions of lives. And under normal circumstances, Trump would have run on that in 2020. He'd be talking about it now. Every day. He would be talking about it, rather than all the other foolishness he talks about, because it was probably the singular accomplishment, his first term that actually helped people, that actually save lives. And now, you know, RFK Jr. Is out there, you know, denigrating that same technology and wiping out funding to that same technology.

[Jim Acosta]

But, you know, Dr. Rob, I mean, we. This was totally predictable. I mean, when. I mean, during the campaign, RFK Jr. You know, jumped on board the Trump campaign and through his support behind Donald Trump, it was sort of assumed at the time that he would get some, perhaps some plum role in the administration. I mean, Trump sort of went for it and gave him hhs, which is insane. But I mean, your thoughts on just what the impact will be to public health, the way they're going after vaccines and in particular the MRNA vaccines?

[Dr. Rob Davidson]

Yeah, I mean, I think for public health and certainly for pandemic response and pandemic preparedness, it's a crisis in the making. And it's almost one of those things. You don't know what it will do until it happens, and then we can't say what would have happened had the research been there. But we know that if we're faced with a bird flu pandemic in the next decade or so, and we can stop the clock in MRNA technology research, and then we don't have that as available, we're gonna lose lives. But it also is a treatment not just for infectious diseases, not just for pandemics. There's been trials looking at treatment of cancer. You know, routine cancer treatment is giving people a chemical that kills cancer cells, but also kills good cells. And people lose their hair, people get violently sick and People kill their bone marrow and get opportunistic infections with this MRNA technology. They can actually target the person's own immune system against tumors. And they've showed promise in brain tumors. I had a close family friend who died of a glioblastoma, horrible brain tumor at 39 years old. And, you know, to think someone like that could potentially benefit in three years, five years, and now that RFK Jr. Is doing this, that benefit will be delayed. Hopefully not lost, but certainly delayed for a number of years.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah. There's no question about it. And the way. The thing that I have A question about, Dr. Rob, is whether there's been some permanent damage done in the public mindset when it comes to vaccines and vaccine safety. I mean, just look what happened at the CDC the other day. I mean, CDC employees are furious, apparently, with RFK Juice Jr. They fault Trump, obviously, for not condemning the shooting as of today. And, you know, apparently the shooter left behind some sort of material that indicated that he had something against these vaccines. And so, you know, in that the coronavirus was on his mind. Your. Your thoughts on that? I mean, we're seeing public health workers under attack. Yeah.

[Dr. Rob Davidson]

I mean, it's one thing to undermine public health and undermine the institutions that we depend on that have brought us, you know, cures to things like polio, gotten rid of smallpox that, you know, stopped the COVID 19 pandemic as quickly as it did, or at least slowed it down and saved lives. And it's a whole other thing, what they're doing in inciting violence. Right. Setting up the CDC as some kind of enemy. You know, and Trump would always call the press, you know, full well he called you the enemy of the people. And still, I'm sure does. But RFK Jr basically calling institutions of higher learning and research and the CDC an enemy of the people. Right. Telling people that they screwed up the COVID 19 pandemic, and this is the fallout, Right? This happens. People get animated. Political violence is certainly something we all should be concerned about, but this is just a whole nother level. These are not political people working at the cdc. These are people who literally dedicate their lives to trying save lives. I'm an ER doc. I've saved lives in my career. I have not saved as many lives as a researcher at the CDC that's working on vaccines. You know, those folks save hundreds of thousands, millions of lives in their career. And it's. And it's really awful that this guy who's the head of that whole department is the guy who's throwing fuel on the fire of all of that, of that rhetoric.

[Jim Acosta]

Well, and you also have the, I mean, there are a couple of other factors going on. You have people leaving the world of public health because they say that, forget this, I'm not going to deal with this anymore, I'm out of here. And then you also have some of the people who are being put in high level positions at hhs, very important positions who, you know, would not usually get that kind of position in a Republican or Democratic administration. But because RFK Jr is there, all bets are off. Yeah.

[Dr. Rob Davidson]

I mean, HHS was never considered a political appointment. Right. You put someone there who can run an agency, you put people at the cdc, at the nih, fda.

[Jim Acosta]

Right.

[Dr. Rob Davidson]

Those agencies and ensure the safety and health of everyone in this country. But really the trade off for Trump when he brought RFK Jr. In, I mean, there was reporting at the time RFK Jr. Was peddling his Maha crowd to both sides.

[David Pepper]

Right.

[Dr. Rob Davidson]

So I don't know that he had some major philosophical affiliation or affinity to Trump. Trump traded control of this entire apparatus for a block of votes. You know, that's how his brain works. And that's, I mean, those are the kind of things we talk about at Paging America. People are interested in that intersection of healthcare and politics and building power. I mean, we are hopefully trying to be a part of a movement building power for patients, building power for science, building power for life saving treatments. They RFK Jr. Trump, a part of a movement that is kind of doling out those healthcare positions, building political power, building electoral power. You know, we have to fight that, but first we have to shine a light on that, make sure people understand what's going on.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah, well, and there are some very good Democratic candidates out there who come out of the realm of public health and out of the field of medicine, and they do a pretty damn good job of winning elections. I remember Howard Dean, he was governor of Vermont all those years, chairman of the DNC, and almost won the Democratic nomination back in 2004. But you know, the other thing that we have to get into when it comes to RFK Jr is this Baja movement. You mentioned it a few moments ago. What are your thoughts on that? Because I kind of wonder if Baja is sort of like the public relations face to sort of put sort of a benign exterior or facade on a pretty radical public health agenda. Sure. Okay. Okay. I don't mind them taking high fructose corn syrup out of Coca Cola and replacing it with cane sugar like Mexico, Mexican Coke. Okay, fine. Taking red dye this or yellow dye that out of some of the food that we eat. Okay, fine. But I mean, those kinds of changes, those kinds of tweaks are not going to have nearly the kind of impact on public health as undermining vaccines on a wide scale.

[Dr. Rob Davidson]

Well, they're nibbling at the edges of what creates chronic disease. Right?

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah.

[Dr. Rob Davidson]

We probably could have a scientific argument. Is corn syrup, you know, high fructose corn symptom really worse than sugar? Sugar is sugar in some ways, yeah. Maybe there's a difference. Right. Is red dye as dangerous that they say in the doses people receive them There. There's an argument you could have, and there should be a scientific argument.

[Jim Acosta]

Sure.

[Dr. Rob Davidson]

But then nibbling away at these issues, holding them up, we can't attack that. I'm not going to go to the mat saying, no, we should keep high fructose corn tip. Or we should keep red dye 40. Sure, get rid of them. That's great. The problem is they're doing that on one side to appease a group of people and to present a veneer of for individuals, concern for populations. But really underlying all that is what you said, attacks on vaccines. It's this big, ugly bill that they passed, that RFK Jr. The only thing he had to say about it was complete garbage. He went on CNBC and said, these aren't Medicaid cuts. Nobody cut Medicaid. They did cut Medicaid. Right. Those are cuts. These are tens of millions of people who will be without health care, health insurance because of what they did. And this guy is propping up what they did and kind of toeing the party line. It, you know, they put it all under the umbrella of Maha to make it look like they're actually looking out for the interests of people. But again, it really seems to be a way for RFK Jr. To consolidate his own power and for Trump to keep that group of people in that, or at least for the last election, to get him into that voting block and probably in some places was determinative, you know, for him to win certain states.

[Jim Acosta]

No, that's. I think that's right. And I tend to think that Maha is probably as much of a fraud as maga, and I guess we're just gonna have to see how that plays out. But when you bring up Medicaid. I was just talking about this with David Pepper. I think it's going to be a potent political issue next year because, I mean, I don't think people understand the impact. You are an ER doctor. What? That's going to do if Medicaid is going away to a large degree in a lot of places in this country where you people need that kind of assistance, they need that kind of help.

[Dr. Rob Davidson]

They do. I mean, I've lived my career through an experiment of what having Medicaid and not Medicaid can do. I work in a small rural community, quite poor. And we, I was there before Medicaid expansion under the Affordable Care act. And once Medicaid expansion was in full, full force here in Michigan, luckily under Republican governor, it was expanded, you know, with the help of our current governor who was in the Senate at the time. And what that did was it took people that I would see month after month coming in with high blood pressure, high sugars. We would give them a prescription, we'd try to find them, follow up, but they didn't have insurance, they couldn't afford their medications, they couldn't go see a doctor. After expanded Medicaid, those people would come in for a sprained ankle or a broken arm and their blood pressure would be normal. You'd ask them how their diabetes, oh yeah, I've got a doc, I'm on medications. So real world experiment played out and saved tens of thousands of lives. You know, state by state by state that expanded and, and just horrifically, 10 states haven't expanded for again, political reasons. I think some of the reasons we still have to always talk about the connection between politics and health care, people don't want to talk about it. Most doctors and researchers also. I don't want to be talking politics when it comes to health care. It should be just a no brainer, right? We get people health insurance, we make it affordable, you actually save lives. But unfortunately, Trump, you know, Republicans for a very long time now, RFK Jr. They have made it impossible to avoid it. And so I think we all have to, you know, perk up or they're gonna, they're gonna run us over even more.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah, there's no question about it. And, and the way people in the public health realm have been treated, I mean, I, I just think about, and I still shake my head to this day, and it, and it makes me a little depressed the way Dr. Anthony Fauci was treated, the way he has had to essentially go underground and because of the threats and what has been unleashed after the close of this pandemic. I mean, and by the way, we should know, I mean, Covid is still circulating out there, but I mean, our public health people in this country are doing amazing work, just absolutely amazing work. And it's just not appreciated enough, in my view.

[Dr. Rob Davidson]

Yeah, I mean, I agree. I mean, I don't think people need to laud those of us who do that. I do, you know, work in direct healthcare, but also, you know, have my MPH and do public health education. And, you know, I don't think people like Fauci and other folks working public health, they don't get into it for the accolades.

[Jim Acosta]

Right?

[Dr. Rob Davidson]

People don't want to be recognized. I mean, I think most people working at cdc, working at nih, they don't want to be on tv.

[Jim Acosta]

They don't want to be.

[Dr. Rob Davidson]

They don't want to have their names out there. That isn't why you go into that work. It isn't sexy. Right. It's fulfilling. You feel like you're serving your fellow individual. It's intellectually stimulating, but mostly. And the people I know who go into health care, you do it. It's a cliche. I interviewed medical students as. As a physician. I remember as student. Why do you want to be a doctor? I want to help people. You know, it's cliche, but it's mostly true. Most of these people go into that world just like people do what you do because you want to inform people. Right. You want to get to the bottom of things and get the information out there. And they have just taken both of our fields, unfortunately, and made them enemies of a large group of people with disastrous effect. Disastrous effects, yeah.

[Jim Acosta]

No, there's no question about it. As you and I both know, in both of our professions, sometimes hard truths need to be told. And I think to some extent, one of the reasons why people in public health are under attack is because folks like Donald Trump don't go. Go out there and defend them. Because he doesn't understand what you just said, Dr. Rob. He doesn't understand the idea of personal sacrifice or public service or putting the public good ahead of oneself. He's never been about that. And so, of course, people in his movement, people like RFK Jr. They're just pursuing their own personal agendas. But Dr. Rob Davidson, great to see you as always. Thanks so much. And glad to see you getting this initiative started. I think it's very important.

[Dr. Rob Davidson]

Absolutely. People come on to Paging America. You can follow the latest news in politics and healthcare and look forward to talking to you again. Jim.

[Jim Acosta]

All right, sounds good. We'll do it again. And my apologies to everybody. I've been wanting to talk about this RFK genius. He's swimming in the creek in Rock Creek Park. How in the hell how in the hell is he a public health expert in this country? I'm just going to say it one more time. And he goes to tanning salons and everything else. It drives me nuts.

[Dr. Rob Davidson]

The worm is in control. I think the worm is in control. The worm is in control.

[Jim Acosta]

Please, somebody help us with the worm. All right, good to see you, Dr. Rob. Thanks a lot. I appreciate it.

[Dr. Rob Davidson]

Thanks.

[Jim Acosta]

All right, Good to see you. I'm going to. While I'm on this rant, quickly go to my buddy. I think Tommy Christopher is standing by. Tommy is a friend of mine, writes over at Mediaite and just does fantastic work. He has sometimes a sharp edge when it comes to his stinging criticism, which is, I think, why we like each other and I enjoy his work. But Tommy has some thoughts on the White House press corps. There's Tommy right there. Tommy, it's been too long. How you doing on. Oh. Can you hear me, man?

[Tommy Christopher]

Hey. Yeah, I. I can hear you. You can you hear me?

[Jim Acosta]

I can hear. I can hear you. You were glitching there a little bit. I think you're there now.

[Tommy Christopher]

I. I'm testing 1, 2, 3.

[Jim Acosta]

All right. No, you sound good. You sound good. Tommy, fill us in because you wrote this. This pretty, I think, fun piece for Mediaite. Maybe it's not so much. Not so much fun, but it kind of delves into something I heard yesterday from a lot of people. People were asking me this question. My friend Olivia Troy brought this up. There were other folks bringing up on social media. Trump has this batshit crazy news conference in the White House briefing room talking about how he's gonna take over Washington, D.C. and did I get this wrong? Did anybody ask about Jeffrey Epstein while he was taking questions or what happened?

[Tommy Christopher]

He's calling me.

[Jim Acosta]

Oh.

[David Pepper]

Yeah, no.

[Tommy Christopher]

The kids are calling me out.

[Jim Acosta]

That's okay. Oh, you might have a little. Hold on, Tommy. You got me.

[David Pepper]

Hi.

[Tommy Christopher]

Yeah, I'm sorry. My son was calling me. So listen, here's the thing. Yeah, so, yeah, he has this. It's like an hour and 10 minute press conference. The opening, the first 40 minutes is him and his goons up there talking a bunch of shit about crime, a bunch of inaccurate shit. And then, yeah, he took questions for about 35 minutes. Not a single question about Epstein. You know, I mean, look, the column. I pegged the column to this one moment where, you know, everybody in the press corps laughs at this joke that he makes. And I want to get to that in a second. But, yeah, to answer your question, there was questions about. No questions about Epstein, except when Trump had already left. Is the Justice Department going to appeal the Epstein decision? Which is a lame question, too, right? Nobody asked about that. Several reporters asked about Russia. None of them asked about the fact that he's having the meeting with Vladimir Putin on US soil, which everybody who knows anything about diplomacy is freaking out about. Nobody asked him about that. And nobody asked him about either of those things being, you know, the crime thing and the Putin thing are obviously distractions from the Epstein thing. Nobody asked about that. And, you know, the thing that I found really sickening was Brian Glenn, which, by the way, people get. Brian Glenn's this MAGA reporter. He used to be with rsbn and now he's with Real America's Voice, and he's always sucking up to Trump. And I don't begrudge him that. Like, sure, there have always been guys like that. You remember Jeff Gannon under Bush, there.

[Jim Acosta]

Was a bunch of guys under Obama.

[Tommy Christopher]

I was, you know, I was pretty openly pro Obama when I was in the briefing room. I don't give regards to people, their opinions. I don't regard to people, you know, raising their issues. The problem with people like Brian Glenn is Trump is hiding behind guys like, you know, all these guys.

[Jim Acosta]

He's got a bunch of ringers in there.

[Tommy Christopher]

Yeah, exactly, exactly. Because, you know, like Obama, they. Those guys never really engaged with us, and Bush never really engaged with Jeff Cannon. But so. But anyway, you know, he says, why don't you make a better briefing room.

[Dr. Rob Davidson]

For all of us?

[Tommy Christopher]

Which is actually not a bad question. And Trump goes, I don't want to make things comfortable for you. I don't want to make life comfortable for you. And everybody laughed, and I'm like, what the fuck is wrong with you people? This guy had pipe bombs sent to CNN. He inspired a guy to literally commit terrorism against CNN. He has been attacking the press for 12 years now, and they're going to sit there and laugh about this. I was fucking stunned, Everybody I know.

[Jim Acosta]

I was stunned with the whole thing. I honestly was stunned with the whole thing. This was a moment, really, where the press corps should have been grilling him on Jeffrey Epstein. Are you going to pardon Ghislaine Maxwell? What do you have to say to the victims who would object to you pardoning Ghislaine Maxwell? What do you have to hide, Mr. President? What is going on in the Epstein file? There were so many questions that could have been asked, and I was very disappointed. And part of it is people get swept up and they have to ask the Newsy little nugget question of the day to get their little nugget for wherever they work. But you can't miss the big picture. And Trump, I mean, obviously calling in the national guard for D.C. crime, but not doing it January 6th. You got to grill him on that.

[David Pepper]

Right.

[Tommy Christopher]

Well, this is the thing, you know, and this is where I was going with this, too, when I said, I don't want to get on Brian Glenn's case or all these mad people's case, because there were regular reporters there. Now, nobody got a question. I think Elena Sheen was there, and I think she would have probably asked a good question if they would have called on her. So they knew better than to do that. But there was normal people like Ed o', Keefe, Trevor Honeycutt from Reuters, you know, Ed Lawrence from Fox, people who were supposed to be able to ask a decent question. Now, even if you think Epstein is, like, overblown or whatever, you don't. There is no excuse for none of them saying, hey, Mr. President, you're doing this shit with D.C. crime is going. Is down year over year in Washington.

[Jim Acosta]

Right.

[Tommy Christopher]

Nobody said that that would have been on topic. Nobody said, you know, why are you meeting Putin in Alaska? Isn't that. Everybody's calling that a big win for Putin. Nobody asked him that. So they even.

[Jim Acosta]

He's bringing a war criminal to the United States of America. My God. Yeah, he's a. He's a war criminal.

[Tommy Christopher]

So they even failed at the newsy shit.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah.

[Tommy Christopher]

And there was one thing I wanted to share with you, Jim, and I know that we've talked about, touched on this briefly offline a little bit, and I don't want to hassle with it in the column, but this is. What's really disturbing is I can reveal this much. I don't want to. I'm not burning anybody and anything that was on record, but I don't want anybody to feel burned either. And so I will just say there have been multiple broadcast and cable news outlets over the past several months who have complained that I made their reporter look too adversarial with Trump. I don't want to single out exactly who it is, but there have been. It has been. It has been at least half a dozen occasions.

[Jim Acosta]

The news organizations are petrified of this.

[Tommy Christopher]

Yes, exactly. They are. They don't want to be seen as our. And plus, this wasn't me stretching it. These were. They were doing their jobs, people doing their jobs, and their networks complained to me about making them seem too adversarial. And I will only say that.

[David Pepper]

Wow.

[Tommy Christopher]

The one network I could tell you that didn't do that was msnbc. Okay. And actually tell you something. After all this shit with Colbert and with, you know, you. You know, ousting you. And Trump brags about this shit about getting people who are critics of him taken off the air.

[Jim Acosta]

Yes. Every time somebody loses their job or loses their slot or leaves or whatever, he tweets about it. I mean, that's his scalp. He thinks of that as his scalp.

[Tommy Christopher]

Yeah. And so not a single one of these reporters that got questioned yesterday asked him anything. Not only didn't ask him about Epstein, but asked him obvious questions that would have been not even that tough, just normal, like, obvious questions that any reporter would have asked. They're scared shitless. And it's. I don't. Look, look, with very. I said this in my piece, too, with very few exceptions. I love Caitlin Collins. She's great. She's been tough. She's been super tough since she got to the White House. You were tough when you were there, mostly. There's a lot of women. Nancy Cordes is another one, I think, obviously. Maggie Haven. Yeah. Maggie Haverman. There are. There are tough reporters, but they are few and far between. And a lot of the, quote, unquote, mainstream reporters are scared to death of Trump. And look, I'm not sure, you know, I don't. I want to say that, like, I, as a human being, I understand people don't want to get harassed, but it's your fucking job, okay? And if you can't.

[Jim Acosta]

That's right.

[Tommy Christopher]

Then get out of that kitchen. That you're. You're the. You're the representative of the people. Okay? And if you can't hack it, then, you know, I get being afraid. But then you need another line of work. Go find another beat.

[Jim Acosta]

That's it. That's it. Well, check out Tommy's piece. Tommy, the signal is breaking up a little bit, so I think what we'll do is let's put a pin in this discussion and reconvene very soon, because I want to keep talking about this. It's been on my mind. I don't love going after my colleagues, and I'm not saying you're going after them or anything like that, but I just. People come after me, and if they want to come after me, that's fine. I just don't believe in going after our colleagues that much. But this is such an important moment in our history right now that you kind like guys. We have to ask the hard Questions. It just, it's the moment that we're in right now. Trump is federalizing the D.C. police Department for no goddamn reason other than to distract from the Epstein files. That's why he's doing it. These questions are crying out to be asked. And I'm glad that you wrote the piece.

[Tommy Christopher]

All right, well, thanks for having me on, Jim. I appreciate the opportunity.

[Jim Acosta]

You got it. All right. Good to see you, Tommy. Thanks a lot. And we'll get that next time we're going to. I'm going to send, like, a couple of signal boosters over to Tommy's place so we can get that signal straightened out. But check out Tommy's piece over at Media. He was kind of a surprise. Guess he reached out to me. I didn't even realize I was driving my dad all over the creation today. I was picking him up in West Virginia and driving him back to D.C. and I missed a lot of what was out there on, on places like Mediaite and so on. So I always appreciate when Tommy says, hey, heads up. I wrote this piece and I, and I watched some of that briefing yesterday, and I went through what was asked, and it was shocking to me that. And again, I don't want to kick sand at my former colleagues over there. I know they have a tough job. I just can't believe that the Epstein scandal was not asked about. And this, this notion that Donald Trump might pardon a convicted sex offender, a convicted sex trafficker, somebody who was involved in raping children. I'm sorry, but that. These are questions that need to be asked. We're in a critical moment right now. As I was reading to you, sharing with you just a short while ago. I mean, I didn't even get to the fact that Trump's new head for the Bureau of Labor Statistics has suggested stopping monthly jobs reports numbers. Really? We're not going to put out monthly jobs reports numbers because the Dear Leader doesn't like the jobs reports numbers. Are we really going to start doing that in this country? What is that going to do to the financial markets if the financial markets have no idea how many goddamn jobs were created or lost in the previous month? I mean, this is ridiculous. And the fact that the Trump administration is evaluating. This is in the Washington Post evaluating plans that would establish a domestic civil disturbance quick reaction force composed of National Guard troops. They're talking about this at the Pentagon. The Pentagon, My God, the Pentagon, which is the command for our armed forces in this country. They should not be hatching plans for sending in quick reaction forces into domestic situations in this country. This is America. There is civilian control over the military. There is not military control over civilians. They're getting this asked backwards, per usual, inside Donald Trump's administration. And so, folks need to wake up. As I was talking about with David Pepper earlier today, complacency is no longer an option. The couch is no longer an option. When the nation's capital is being taken over by the president for no goddamn reason at all whatsoever other than his sagging poll numbers and that he's freaked out over Jeffrey Epstein, we have a problem in this country. The lights are blinking red, ladies and gentlemen. The lights are blinking red. This is not a moment for complacency. This is not a moment for fear. This is not a moment for holding back when the tough questions need to be asked. This is a moment to engage. This is a moment to get tough. It's a moment to stand strong, stand up and be counted. Trump's bringing a war criminal to Alaska and Vladimir Putin. Why are you doing that? Donald Trump? Those are the kinds of questions that need to be asked. How can you bring a war criminal to America? Alaska is America, last time I checked. How can you bring a war criminal to America? One of the tough questions that need to be asked of this president tonight. I want to thank everybody for watching. My thanks to David Pepper, to Dr. Rob Davidson, and to Tommy Christopher. I'm still getting a notification that his Internet connection is not going off, so maybe he's still connected in some way. Tommy, once again, thanks for coming on. Really appreciate it. Glad you reached out at the last second. But everybody, thanks again for watching. Still reporting from Washington, I'm Jim Acosta. Have a good even you. Good night. It.