← The Jim Acosta Show
The Jim Acosta Show
Early Warning Signs of Trump's Behavior with Billy Bush and Ryan Lizza on Trump's retribution campaign.
01:06:53
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- [00:00]
Jim Acosta
Welcome to the Jim Acosta show. Donald Trump and his allies are doing everything they can to keep the Epstein files from coming out. His Justice Department is apparently on the verge of indicting former FBI Director James Comey. The DOJ is also reportedly working on a case against George Soros. Trump is also cracking down on his perceived enemies trying to crush free speech in this country. But Trump was not able to stop Jimmy Kimmel from coming back to the airwaves. Here with me to talk about this is Billy Bush, who has had a very long career in television, has followed the entertainment industry for some time now. Obviously, we all know who Billy Bush is and it's great to see you, man. Thanks for coming on, Jim.
- [00:46]
Billy Bush
Thank you, man. I really appreciate the space here and having me with you.
- [00:50]
Jim Acosta
And you're new to this, right? This is your first substack live, my understanding your first live doing this.
- [00:57]
Billy Bush
I love it so much, but God almighty, it's overwhelming, Jim. I got just so many buttons.
- [01:02]
Jim Acosta
It's a lot of buttons. We were supposed to be on at 4 o'. Clock. I looked at the Google and I noticed you and I are just about the exact same age and we grew up with Atari and all that stuff. And I figured between the two of us, we'd be able to get this on time and everything, but it didn't quite work out that way. But we're here now. It's all good. I. So I guess first of all, this is my first time talking to you. There's lots of different places to start. I think first and foremost you're in Hollywood. I guess you're in LA or where are you these days?
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Billy Bush
Yeah, yeah. In Los Angeles. Have been for 21 years. Minus that beautiful two weeks in New York at the Today show. I mean, two months.
- [01:43]
Jim Acosta
Two months. Yeah. And I mean, obviously Hollywood is a buzz the whole world has been talking about. What took place with Jimmy Kimmel this week? What was your big takeaway from all of that? How that went down? Because I. You're looking at the ratings, we're looking at the rate 6.26 million people tuned in as Kimmel made his comeback. And it was a huge egg on the face for ABC and Disney.
- [02:10]
Billy Bush
Yeah, I think, I mean, they were scrambling over the weekend in, you know, with meetings with Dana Walden, the head of television, Bob Iger. I mean, this goes all the way up to Bob and Rob Mills, who's in charge of late night television and Jimmy's manager and lawyer. Soon as this thing went down, I think they were like, shit, yeah. Oh, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. We got to get this. We got to get him. We got to get him back and quickly. And you'll notice the negotiations went in favor of Jimmy because he didn't apologize. He didn't apologize at all. He explained. He clarified. And sometimes, you know, in the. In the. In the last several years, Jim, in the cancel culture thing, people are, where's the apology? You have to apologize. There's the great pressure to fall on the sword. He had no reason to apologize here. And, you know, ABC was smart to say, okay, forget it. Let him clarify. That's the best they're going to get. Because there was a mistake. People rushed to take what he said literally. I think Jimmy could have done a better job of saying what he said. But what he said. What he said was clearly that MAGA was more concerned with pinning the blame on the other side than the grieving process and the whole thing. That's what he said. What he didn't say is, oh, this guy's, you know, clearly maga, and they're trying to get rid of him. I mean, even Jimmy would. He'd have to be an idiot to think that. So that's just, you know, the nuance there. And so I think he could have avoided the whole thing. Because if you look at the. Across the pantheon of Jimmy Kimmel comments about the President, this one doesn't even come into the top squanny.
- [03:54]
Jim Acosta
Right, Exactly. And I thought the way Jimmy came back was perfect. I think the, you know, he had. He had some jokes there. The bit with De Niro was great, but. But he was just spot on about how a comedy show is not what's important here. What's important here is that we have the right to free speech in this country. And I'm just. In all your years covering Hollywood, have you ever seen a situation like this?
- [04:17]
Billy Bush
I mean, I know. You know, I've seen situations of nervous advertisers. I mean, you know, linear television is still very sc. You know, the way linear television works now is, you know, he who shrinks the slowest wins. And, you know, so they're constantly worried about and, you know, say what you want for them. But Nextar Media Group handles a lot of stations. They have 32 ABC stations, one of them being in Salt Lake, which is a pretty big station for them. KTVX, ABC4 in Salt Lake is a big one. Fairly, you know, highly Mormon population, very conservative market. So obviously, this is where that all went down. They're nervous there. They have the right to Say we're pulling off Jimmy tonight for our own reasons. We're not doing it. They're, you know, they're affiliates. They can do what they want. And by the way, neither one, neither Sinclair Broadcasting, which has many stations that carry Kimmel, Norm, nexstar, have returned him yet, but they're going through their own list of demands or negotiations or meeting community standards, which is what Brendan Carr said. Your material should reflect the community.
- [05:35]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, it's pretty rotten, though, that Brendan Carr, the chairman of the fcc, is basically, he's encouraging these station groups to rebel against the networks, against TV programs that the administration doesn't like. And, and, you know, it's pretty extraordinary to me that he has this much power now. I mean, the way he was talking the other day, you know, we can do this the easy way or the hard way to Disney.
- [06:00]
Billy Bush
I mean, and he maintains that he's totally, you know, this is completely independent of the administration. Does anyone believe that? Does anyone believe that, you know, Trump's. Get me, get me Brendan Carr right now, you know, and he's blasting away and let's go. He is, he is uniquely obsessed with late night comics. It's even Joe, Joe, Joe Rogan, who's, I would say, more libertarian than conservative, was like, what is the deal with the obsession with the late night comics? Like, he cannot let them go. They get under his skin in a major way. He wants them to love and adore him and make fun evenly. But these guys have long tenure and they have earned the right to kind of do what they want.
- [06:49]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, I mean, Jay Leno, you and I both remember Jay Leno used to go after Bill Clinton every night on Monica Blinsky and all that stuff. I mean, this comes with the territory.
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Billy Bush
Well, we've never seen, you know, presidents have always taken their shots. I mean, I'm related to two of them, Jim. They got, you know, they got made fun of all the time. George W. And his strategery and all that. I mean, they used to pound on him and he, what was he gonna do, call the FCC and be like, don't let them say strategically again, I'm, you know, it's part of the territory and. But he, he can't seem to handle it. So he, now he's like, I mean, look at the most recent statement. As soon as they returned, Jimmy, he gets out there and he says, you know, hey, I, I'm. We're gonna have to look at this from another angle. He's already positioning another move at Disney, like, not letting it Go and have.
- [07:42]
Jim Acosta
You ever seen his. I mean, not to keep asking that question the same way, but I mean, the way he is going after these networks, suing these networks, cbs, abc, these huge lawsuits, I mean, it is, I've described it on my show as he's cracked the code on how to hurt the media in this country and how to bend it to its will. He's been successful at it. You have to admit it.
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Billy Bush
Oh, my God. I mean, ABC has paid 15 million, CBS has paid 16 million. Wall Street Journal looks like they're holding the line and they're not going to pay for. Pay for a thing. And same with the New York Times, they're fighting. Good for them. But the two networks coughed him up very quickly. And, you know, Trump, Trump even said in his statement, boy, this is that. I think this next one will be even more lucrative. Lucrative, not punitive. Yeah, not fair.
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Jim Acosta
Oh, he said that to John Carl. He said that to John Carl the other day. He, he, when he got in John Carl's face and was going after John Carl, he was saying that, you know, accusing him of hate speech and so on and saying, your network paid me $16 million. He didn't say, paid my presidential library or any of those things he said, paid me. So he, he has made this very personal, obviously. I mean, that. That's what this is all about. You can't take a job.
- [08:58]
Billy Bush
He is uniquely obsessed. And if there's one thing, you know, I'm, I'm able to, I'm a very moderate guy and I'm very able to see where things. Everybody was just played in this tournament, golf tournament, with some Irish men, and they were like, you know, he's not as hated over here as you think because we have real immigration problems. And what he's done over there, a lot of people are like, wow, wish we had the stones to do that. Or so there's an example of, like, where. But in this particular space, in this, when it comes to free speech or speech, anti Trump speech, it's about as authoritarian as, I mean, it's becoming more and more. It's looking like China, it's looking like North Korea. I mean, he wants state television or approved television.
- [09:47]
Jim Acosta
Yeah. Totally out of control. And they're achieving some of this through cancel culture, which I would be remiss, I would be ignoring the elephant in the room if I didn't say, billy, you went through this. You were canceled there for a while.
- [10:02]
Billy Bush
Jim, the thing is, I wasn't canceled for speech. I was canceled for ears for Hearing for being present while something was said. I mean, I think I was canceled for. How dare you not say something. Billy Bush, Billy Bush of Access Hollywood, we count on you, the Mother Teresa of entertainment news, to stand up and do something. And I didn't. And I kind of survived the scene with him. But, yeah, I. Now, Jim, if I'm honest, there was a few other things going on at the Today show and an old guard that didn't want the new guy from Access Hollywood there in the first place. So there was some inner politics, but at the same time, yeah, that was an extreme example. I call it ground zero of canceled culture. Yeah.
- [10:48]
Jim Acosta
And I'm sure you could see some of the comments coming. I mean, one of the things that we should talk about when it comes to the Access Hollywood tape. I remember when I was covering the 2016 campaign, I said, because I was the main correspondent covering Donald Trump at that time, I said, this is the end of his campaign. The stuff that he said, I said, there's just no way he can come back from this. And when I was wrong, there's no question about it. But when you think about that day and the stuff that is said on this video and, you know, you seem to be, you know, laughing along with what he's saying and so on. And I know you, I know you regret that. Obviously you regret that. What goes through your mind? What are your thoughts going back to that day? Not that you want to spend a whole lot of time thinking about that, but I mean, it's a moment that I think every American remembers. Just about every American.
- [11:45]
Billy Bush
Yeah. No one more than me.
- [11:48]
Jim Acosta
Yeah.
- [11:48]
Billy Bush
Jim, look, I try to keep two feet in the future, but when I think about it, I think, yeah, it was an off camera moment. Was it my greatest moment of character? No. Did it with. I, it's. If it was on the air and going out to young ears somewhere, I would have obviously handled it differently. But when you're dealing with Donald Trump, a lot comes your way. It's never, hey, Billy, how's the wife and kids? How's the family? It's just you take the asteroids as they come and you do the best with it what you can. And I, and I chose to just laugh this one off and try to keep going. I never said anything myself out of my mouth, of which I am ashamed. Nothing. Not one thing. So did I not police the point? Better. If you want to say that I failed in that regard, you have every right.
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Jim Acosta
Yeah. And if you go, if you could go back to that day, do you wish you could have said to him.
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Billy Bush
I wish I changed the topic, Jim, because, you know, at that point, remember, the network that raised Donald Trump is NBC. They raised him, they, they made the Apprentice. They turned him into this great deal maker that the country saw as the guy we need as president. They created him in a laboratory. My job was to, he was also the highest earning primetime star that they had due to the, you know, low cost of reality television compared to scripted. So he was a real, you know, piece of business for them. I'll tell you what, had that tape gotten out when he was hot for them and they were hot for him, I would have been fired for a completely different reason. That's our cash cow, Bush. What do you, how did that get, you know, later on, 11 years later, a month before an election, NBC News puts it out themselves. I'll say allegedly just for your sake, but not for mine. Could give a shit. And there's the October surprise. And in the end, you know, it doesn't do anything to him.
- [13:58]
Jim Acosta
And I'm just looking at the transcript of what he said that day. You know, he said something about, they're talking about furniture. She wanted to get some furniture. I said, I'll show you where they have some nice furniture. And then he goes, I moved on her like a, I couldn't get there. And she was married. And of course she, you know, he says the part about, you know, I just start kissing them. It's like a magnet. Just kiss. I don't even. Wait. When you're a star, they let you do it. And then he says, grab them by.
- [14:27]
Billy Bush
The double down on that in the egg barrel deposition.
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Jim Acosta
Yeah. And I, you know, at that moment, to me, I, I, I don't know how you recover from that as a politician. It is just, it is one of the most disgusting things I can think of. And I guess at that time he wasn't a politician. He's, he's a, he's an entertainer. But when it comes out he's a politician, I don't know how he recovers from that. But what was going through your mind when you heard that?
- [14:53]
Billy Bush
Well, my explanation for that is as, look, as many moral issues, people can have moral issues with Donald Trump, but the thing about him is he's never really pretended to be someone else. It's kind of like, you know, that it's hard to act too surprised that he's, I mean, if you just look at, we've got Stormy Daniels, you've got, there's a whole litany of Things that he has said. So when it comes to that, he has this affordability that no one else has. That. Okay, doesn't matter. We know that about him. It's not like when we found out something about Tiger woods, right? We're like, oh, my God, we thought he was a staple of the community. And holy crap, he's doing all these things. And that. You're like, with Donald, it's like, there's another thing. I mean, it's like, it's not. You know what I mean?
- [15:46]
Jim Acosta
Did you hear him say any of the. Anything else that. Of this nature that was not on the tape that you can.
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Billy Bush
No.
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Jim Acosta
This was the one and only time you heard about it.
- [15:56]
Billy Bush
Let me tell you something. NBC put out an APB for all tapes. When this came out, it was because a contestant in a Miss Universe pageant had said, donald Trump has said terrible things about me. And he said, I never talk like that at all. And then NBC sent out to all their divisions, look for your tapes. Now, the ones they wanted belonged to Mark Burnett and are in a vault somewhere in Idaho. And those are all the outtakes from the Apprentice set. But someone at Access Hollywood said, oh, wait a minute, we have that thing from 11 years ago. What about that? Didn't he say something about furniture buying and all this stuff? And wait. So then they took that and sent it to NBC News, hoping to, you know, Access Hollywood, the little. You know, the tiniest little division of NBC News. It's not even recognized. Like, look, look what we did. We've got the thing. And they went, oh, you've done so great. Here we go. And then they had it. And that's how it came to light. And they scoured that and scoured everything else in every drawer that they could find anything on him. And that was deemed enough, and it wasn't.
- [17:07]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, but you don't go back and think about that and say, what the fuck was I thinking? I should have told him, Jim, I'm gonna. I should have said, what the fuck is wrong with you? Or something like, you know, who grabs women by the pussy, brags about it because.
- [17:22]
Billy Bush
Because, Jim, there is no way on God's green earth I can take a human being seriously when they're saying that not one as boorish as this is a caricature of a human. He says something like that. I'm like, well, that's obviously not true, because I don't even. Not even the worst person in the world does something like that. If I thought.
- [17:46]
Jim Acosta
Because he has the most successful TV show In America around that time. Right.
- [17:51]
Billy Bush
And so he demanded a renegotiation after the first season of that show, Jim. He demanded it with Jeff Immelt, the chairman of George. Like, he wouldn't even talk to Jeff Zucker about the renegotiation. I want to see Jeff Immelt. And so he demanded the lunch, and Jeff Immel did it with him. Gave in to Donald Trump. Everybody gave in to Donald Trump. The entire 52nd floor of NBC was kissing his hundred million dollars a year in profit ass. Yeah, everyone.
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Jim Acosta
Wow. So NBC enabled.
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Billy Bush
This is 100%. They built him, they created him like Frankenstein in a lab, and they made him this, the deal maker and the guy that could fix, you know, fix the world. A great businessman. That's what we need. He's going to make us rich. Here we go.
- [18:38]
Jim Acosta
And, yeah, and he's been using that bullshit Persona ever since. And.
- [18:43]
Billy Bush
But then 11 years later, it's a different story. Now he's filed suit against them for the Miss Universe, and, you know, no great business relationship ends well. Uh, you know, and so NBC is no different than Merv Griffin or, you know, Trump's. Whatever the steak company was that made the steaks and the vodka company that made the vodka and the, you know, university. Yeah, whoever.
- [19:07]
Jim Acosta
No, I know. And he was a failed casino operator. And, you know, Trump Tower, Even back in 2006, I can't imagine it was. It looked that good back then. It looked pretty shitty when I covered it in 2016. And I would go in there, I mean, to me, it was like the Apprentice was this fictitious, bullshit thing that enabled him to have this image before the American people of the successful business guy. And it was all built on a reality TV hoax.
- [19:32]
Billy Bush
He was a. That boardroom was great. When the show started, the boardroom was the last 15 minutes. By the time the show was in its heyday, the boardroom was about 45 minutes, and the challenges were 20 minutes or something, you know, and it was mostly him pitting people against each other. You know, Bret Michaels of Poison. Can you believe that Candy, the Playmate, said this about you? I can't believe it. Don't you think that's a terrible thing that she said about you? You should probably not take that. And, you know, he's just pitting people in these great fights, which is a great talent of his. Now, at the risk of being very unpopular with your viewers, I'm gonna say back in the day in 2005, when I am a reporter for Access Hollywood and he is the Trumpster of The Apprentice, I find him to be. So. I don't mind a rogue. I don't mind a dirty humor. Funny. But I'll. You know, and I thought he was incredibly entertaining. He was very good at the. At the. At the medium. He was. I mean, they were having him SNL and the skits he was doing at the Emmys, and he was a dog.
- [20:33]
Jim Acosta
But does that explain why you were. I mean, and so does that explain why you were laughing along. Why you were kind of. I mean, I don't know if. Because you want to get to the right word, but.
- [20:42]
Billy Bush
Jim. Yeah, These are inside baseball things. But, like, you know, I'm looking out a window, looking at a camera crew and a producer ready to film the arrival. I don't know what the hell he's talking about. The first time that I remember recalling those words, the famous words, I heard them in my. The general manager of the Today show's office five days before they suspended me and then ultimately fired me. I'd never registered them. Always about the furniture buying, because it was my friend Nancy Odell.
- [21:14]
Jim Acosta
So it just flew past.
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Billy Bush
And I heard him. I went, oh, my God. And I. And I heard it because when. When. When it happened in 2005, I'm looking out the window. Okay, producers there. Where's the person he's greeting. Oh, shoot, are we in place? Is everything good? He's doing him. He's running on and on. And he's always very savvy.
- [21:34]
Jim Acosta
I mean, and I'm sure, you know, there are women who will never think that that is true and will say. And men, too, who will say, oh.
- [21:42]
Billy Bush
Come on, Billy, I don't give a shit, Jim. I know what's true. Honestly, I know what's true, and I don't care. A great piece of advice came to me one time. There's three types of people in the world, Jim. Those who know you and love you, those who will get to know you and like you, and those who will never know you and never like you waste no time with group number three.
- [22:06]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, no, I hear you. And that applies to that.
- [22:08]
Billy Bush
People that don't like you, Jim, they thought you were pugnacious and went after Donald Trump in the room just to grab attention and fight with him for no reason or sometimes. And, you know, I'm sure there are people that'll say, screw Jim Acosta forever. That guy is just, you know, looking to take down the maga. Hates you.
- [22:27]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, they do. No, there's no question about.
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Billy Bush
And everybody from every group, there's A little group of everybody's who maybe hate me, but when they get to know me, they like me.
- [22:37]
Jim Acosta
Yeah. And, Billy, one of the reasons why I thought it'd be interesting to talk to you is because of the Epstein business that we're seeing in Washington right now. And do you feel when you had the looking back at the Access Hollywood experience, that you sort of had a sneak preview of coming attractions, that. That maybe you didn't see it at the moment, register it at the moment, as you were saying a few moments ago? But, you know, this is somebody who got. I mean, this is somebody who was sued by Eugene Carroll. You know, this is somebody who, by.
- [23:10]
Billy Bush
The way, in the Eugene Carroll deposition, he doubled down. He was like, yeah, sometimes you are that famous, you can just, you know, start kissing them and do whatever. He's like, he said it in the deposition. He.
- [23:21]
Jim Acosta
I mean, does this Epstein stuff shock you now, thinking about, you know, what took place back?
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Ryan Lizza
Well, I just want to.
- [23:30]
Billy Bush
Well, the Epstein thing to me is like, why are we. Why is this such a thing? Like, if it's, you're not in there, sir. Which, of course, you know, they've, you know, both Kash Patel and Pam Bundy have said, you know, we've looked, and there's, you know, the President's not in there. Well, why do you care? Who are you protecting then? Prince Andrew, we already know he was there. But who else are we protecting? And. And why? Because it seems to be bipartisan protection at least. I mean, you know, all the way through the Biden administration, they had the Epstein files. What didn't they do with. Why didn't they let them out? Why doesn't. Why doesn't everyone let them out? Who cares about. But it seems to be like the names on. There must be names that both parties don't want out. That blows my mind, because I thought, yeah, everything was fair game when it came to war between these two parties today.
- [24:25]
Jim Acosta
Well, I mean, because the Access Hollywood tape happened, what, three years after. I think he said to the New York, New York magazine, excuse me, that he was friends with Jeffrey Epstein. And he said Jeffrey Epstein liked his women on the younger side. And so I just. I kind of wonder, you know, in this moment whether, you know, he. He was, you know, exhibiting some pretty disturbing behavior back then. I mean, I don't know. We don't know.
- [24:49]
Billy Bush
I don't remember his. I don't remember, you know, him commenting on Epstein then. I was. So. I was just doing, you know, my Access Hollywood job, so I don't I mean, Epstein wasn't even on my radar. I didn't until the, you know, until later. So I didn't pay any attention to it. I don't, I couldn't connect the two events at all. I knew Trump very well. I hosted a million pageants for him. I was with him three days a week. My job at NBC was to get headlines from Donald Trump because whatever the story was, if it was Kim Kardashian or Rosie o' Donnell or whatever, Trump always had something to say, right? I mean, every other celebrity has a publicist who's the gatekeeper in guarding, and Trump just, Trump just does what he does. So they wanted headlines, get him to comment on Michael Jackson, you know, get on his trial, get him to comment on everything. So I was actually really good at it. I knew how to say, okay, hey, I'll come up to Trump Tower, I'll do this. And I had a shorthand, I could get there. And so I guess, you know, at some point you have to say, also, boy, he did his job really well. I mean, there was no. I knew how to bring out the real person. And if people want to say that I'm a terrible person for being in that room and not doing more in this situation, then good for you, you high and mighty person, you self conscious warrior. Good for you.
- [26:10]
Jim Acosta
But Billy, I mean, is it being high and mighty? I mean, you know, I mean, no.
- [26:14]
Billy Bush
It'S just getting pissed off that he got away with it. So you're mad at me, like, come on, give me a break.
- [26:22]
Jim Acosta
I mean, but you know that you're gonna have the folks who say, you know, you had your shot in that moment to tell him, Jim, I appreciate it. Stop acting like a piece of shit. You're acting like a piece of shit. I guess you would have been fired. You would have, you would have been thrown out. I don't know. But I mean, you did have that.
- [26:39]
Billy Bush
Jim, I love you. Jim, I love you. And I know you're doing your job because I can see the comments rolling in there and they're like, Jim, you gotta hold, hold them account. You gotta do it. But Jim, if you and I were offline right now, I don't think you'd be going too hard at me because I think, you know, it was a shit situation to be in, a very shitty situation to be in. I don't choose what words come at me, what happens. I am there to get an interview with him, set up a, you know, do a shoot with him, and you do the best you can. When something comes. All right, the fact that NBC News leaked this in an election, a supposedly neutral news organization leaks this to try and affect a presidential election has never been accounted for. That's an interesting thing. Billy Bush had a lot of pain.
- [27:25]
Jim Acosta
Jim, you think they leaked it to affect the presidential election?
- [27:27]
Billy Bush
Jim, Jim, let me finish. Billy Bush has had a lot of punishment. He's had a lot of pain. He's had a lot of therapy. He's done a lot of things in his life. He's picked his ass up and gotten going. No one else has been accountable for that at all. Not the people who leaked the tape and not the man who did all the talking.
- [27:44]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, but you were saying that you think NBC did this to affect the presidential election. I mean, you know, what do we. Sitting on video. That was very newsworthy.
- [27:53]
Billy Bush
Yeah, it's newsworthy for sure. But they're scouring every which way they can to get them. And this is not the beginning. I mean, there was an APB throughout the entire network to all divisions. I ask you, Jim, had they found something like that about Hillary Clinton or something really terrible about Hillary Clinton?
- [28:10]
Jim Acosta
Oh, absolutely.
- [28:10]
Billy Bush
Have they have done the same thing? I mean, I think they did 60 minutes. Did 60 minutes give a puffball interview about the Hunter Biden laptop to Joe Biden so they could, you know, did they. Definitely in protection mode.
- [28:24]
Jim Acosta
Why are we. Why are we talking about the Hunter Biden laptop?
- [28:26]
Billy Bush
Well, I'm just saying the network.
- [28:27]
Jim Acosta
I think if any network had damaging information on Hillary Clinton, they would have reported on it. I think that that's.
- [28:33]
Billy Bush
I don't think. Not with the same fervor, but we can disagree there.
- [28:37]
Jim Acosta
Yeah. So, I mean, are you a Trump supporter?
- [28:42]
Billy Bush
No, I'm not a Trump supporter in any way. I've never voted for him once in my life. And that said, what do you think of him? Well, I think. Look, I think he is. I wish, like I said in this most recent thing, like the Charlie Kirk, you know, memorial, I see him and I said, why can you not just use the magnetism you have whether you like him or not? Why can't you just bring people together for one minute? He's terrible. In times of grief and sorrow and inability to just invite Democratic leaders to the White House, have a break bread, say, God, isn't this awesome?
- [29:27]
Jim Acosta
He's not that guy.
- [29:27]
Billy Bush
I mean, I grew up with. George H.W. bush is my uncle. Okay, this is the tip o', Neill, Ron Reagan issue era, where people would fight all day and debate hard, but then they Would kick back and have a drink together and tip, how are your kids? And how is everything? That civility I wish was here. And he has no ability to strike the notes that a real leader needs to strike.
- [29:56]
Jim Acosta
And you don't think at some point or you wish if you could go back at a time machine and say, you know, if you could have come out in 2016 and said, yep, that happened. He was acting like a son of.
- [30:09]
Billy Bush
A. Oh, I wish I had given the chance to go on the air. They, they. It came out on a Friday, so they had the whole weekend to freak out. Six months after it was done, the president and general manager of NBC News, Noah Oppenheim, called me and said, if you never speak to me again, I'll understand. I'm so sorry we acted so quickly. And I said, okay. If it had come out on a Thursday, Jim, I would have been on the air Friday morning. I would have been able to explain what happened. They actually gave me an opportunity to. I remember Andy Lack, the chairman of NBC News, said, so what do you want to do about this thing? I said, what do I want to do? I mean, the guy didn't know we were recording. I just, I never even. I've never heard this thing myself. It's been in a drawer, somebody's drawer, forever. Like, what do I want to do? I don't want to do anything. And he's like. And I remember Noah saying, well, these things, they, they just have a way of coming out. And I'm like, yeah. Oh, okay. Well, I don't know. And the only reason why they leaked it to the Washington Post is because it's a dual consent state. California, where it was.
- [31:11]
Jim Acosta
I guess my, My question is, is when that video comes out, is that inconvenient?
- [31:15]
Billy Bush
What?
- [31:15]
Jim Acosta
No, no, I'm saying when the video comes out, you know, you've been exposed as being in the middle of all of this. Why not come out in that moment and say, yeah, the guy was acting like a scumbag and he has no business being president of the United States.
- [31:29]
Billy Bush
I have on millions of occasions. What he said was pretty horrible, but I also didn't take it seriously. I've had women who are great, a list actresses, you know, say things that are inappropriate with me before, you know, going on camera. You know, I'm not gonna go reprimand Julia Roberts. To me, he was another. He was another, you know, celebrity that we had on our show. I've heard all kinds of things. If I thought he was serious, Jim, I would have called the FBI.
- [31:56]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, but, but in hindsight, I mean, all of these women who have said that he assaulted them, the allegations, you, you mentioned that you had worked with him on some pageants. There are allegations about fluid behavior at pageants.
- [32:15]
Billy Bush
Jim. I don't know. He's got a long history. I'm sure he's done all kinds of things. I, I, I don't know, but I've definitely engaged you long enough on this topic.
- [32:24]
Jim Acosta
Well, I appreciate the time. And so now you're up on substack.
- [32:28]
Billy Bush
What's the someone said? Right, there's a comment. You knew he was serious, Billy. No, I didn't. Because I'm a man who doesn't think that way. I have three daughters. Someone says something like that to me and they're a big star and we're doing our thing. I'm a young guy at the time, it's 20 years ago. I laugh that off. I get out of it. Okay, whatever. Crazy man. Back on with the ship, with the, with the show we're doing.
- [32:53]
Jim Acosta
Yeah.
- [32:53]
Billy Bush
If I didn't police it enough. And I'm telling you, you think I thought he was serious saying something like that? What asshole says something like that? In my mind, I could never possibly. I don't think that way. It wasn't raised that way to think.
- [33:07]
Jim Acosta
But now looking back, I mean, look at the sick stuff that he says. Now.
- [33:10]
Billy Bush
Read the article. You want to talk about the women, the other women? Read the article I wrote in the New York Times, December of 2017. It's a New York Times op ed. Look it up and then get over it.
- [33:23]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, Billy, I appreciate the time, man. And you know, I understand that, you know, people, they have these things that blow up in their lives and you've got to try to make the most of the pieces that you pick up and try to put back together again. I mean, how are you doing all these years later? I mean, I know I, I know it ain't easy.
- [33:49]
Billy Bush
It's not easy, Jim. I just went through a psilocybin journey two weeks ago and it's better than every any therapist I've ever had in my life. I fired my shrink right on the spot. I did a psilocybin journey. I found myself in there, confronting, having experiences with my father, my mother, believe it or not, Andy, Lack of NBC News, all the people I needed to, and the follow up work from that. And what I take away is keep two feet in the future. I'm entertaining you for one reason, Jim, and that is to pig off some of your subscribers, I don't think I'll get many, but I'm new on Substack, and that's why I'm here. I swore never to go back on this topic again, but you are the mighty Jim Acosta and you have a large following. And I want some of it.
- [34:35]
Jim Acosta
I gotta ask you. I gotta ask you about it.
- [34:37]
Billy Bush
It.
- [34:39]
Jim Acosta
And, you know, I think that the American people still have questions about it. And I think this moment, this Access Hollywood moment was a start, Jim.
- [34:49]
Billy Bush
I don't think anyone has questions about it anymore. It's been dealt with, Jim. It was nine years ago. Nine. And he has lost. He won an election. He lost one, he won another one. They don't have questions about it. It's just that thing. And yet, you know, if you can ask about it, you do.
- [35:08]
Jim Acosta
And I hear you. Yeah. All right.
- [35:12]
Billy Bush
Oh, yes, we do. Here we go. Let's read these questions. No questions. Be kind to yourself, Billy. Don't let people get to you here. Oh, okay. Thank you. There we go. Now I'm up with each comment. I go up and then I go down. Beating a dead horse, Jim. Oh, one of your followers said you're beating a dead horse, Jim. Here we go. You're still whining. I'm not whining. I'm answering Jim's questions. I told Jim I'd rather not talk about it, but Jim has to. Let's go. Keep going here. Part of the record. Here we go.
- [35:39]
Jim Acosta
It's interesting. I mean, move, Billy, go.
- [35:41]
Billy Bush
Oh, Billy's now trending. I'm going up, Jim. Wait a minute.
- [35:44]
Jim Acosta
This is great, Billy. You know, I hope we could do this again soon. Thanks for doing it, man. I had to ask these questions and, you know, listen, I get it. I get where you're coming from in terms of, you know, you'd like to move on, but there's a lot of folks who see the guy in the Oval Office, they see the behavior. And you were a part of this.
- [36:06]
Billy Bush
Yeah, I don't like a lot of the behavior myself, Jim, and I. I have a vote, and I'm going to use my vote responsibly. My right.
- [36:15]
Jim Acosta
All right. Thanks, Billy. Appreciate it.
- [36:17]
Billy Bush
Thanks, Jim.
- [36:18]
Jim Acosta
All right. That was Billy Bush. I'm going to go to Ryan Lizza. I guess Billy. Was.
- [36:27]
Billy Bush
Billy.
- [36:28]
Jim Acosta
Was Billy there? I wanted to see what he had to say about some of these questions all these years later. I mean, to me, I think he. He witnessed some of the behavior on Donald Trump's part. And I think that it's relevant to a lot of what we're seeing today. Let me bring in Ryan Lizzo. Ryan, how are you? Good to see you.
- [36:53]
Ryan Lizza
Hey, Jim.
- [36:54]
Jim Acosta
Good interview I want to talk about. What's that?
- [36:57]
Ryan Lizza
Good interview. That was riveting.
- [37:00]
Jim Acosta
Yeah. I mean, I'll be really honest, I have mixed feelings about interviewing Billy, and Billy sort of, I think, confessed to his motivation for doing it. He just basically wanted to get subscribers, which I suppose that's the world we live in now. But I had never asked him about what took place with Access Hollywood. And to me, I thought, this is a moment where, you know, shit. How do you not ask him about something that occurred back in 2005 that might have a whole lot of relevance to what's taking place now?
- [37:33]
Ryan Lizza
Yeah, well, I think he handled it well. He's been around a while. He can handle some tough questions. And I found him, you know, I found him likable, and, you know, you pressed him really, really hard, and, you know, I could understand his anxiety a little bit there. Jim, you were. You really. Yeah. I don't want you to press me like that in this interview, so.
- [37:56]
Jim Acosta
No, no, no, no.
- [37:57]
Ryan Lizza
Hopefully we'll have some safe topics here. No, I'm kidding. But, no, it was. It was fascinating, and I liked his honesty about coming on to get a piece of the Acosta audience. I mean, I know that wasn't a joke, but look, I mean, it ain't.
- [38:10]
Jim Acosta
All that big today, to be quite honest, but, you know, maybe the recording will do. Well, but I, you know, I guess. I don't know. I mean, you know, he seemed to take it personally, and I think, you know, I would not be doing my job if I had him on. And I just sort of. Let's just talk about Jimmy Kimmel and, you know, the FCC and not get into Access Hollywood when you have this, all this Epstein stuff right now. And Ro Khanna was tweeting yesterday that there's now tremendous pressure on a lot of Republicans right now in the House, which, of course, none of us are seeing, because it's happening behind the scenes to try to stop the Epstein files from coming out. And so, I mean, to me, to this day, Donald Trump does not want us to know, you know, some pretty rough stuff about him, it seems to me. And the White House is being very serious about this.
- [39:01]
Ryan Lizza
Yeah, I mean, Trump has rarely fought anything this hard, and he's rarely had as much trouble convincing his supporters to drop an issue. It's. I. I can't think of anything like this, any policy issue, you know, Just any kind of crazy thing that, that Trump has sort of said, that's it. We're not talking about this anymore. Trump supporters listen and they're not listening on this. I mean, Mike Johnson is listening and he's doing everything in his power. There's tremendous pressure on him to bring these Republicans to heel. But, yeah, it's not going away.
- [39:46]
Jim Acosta
Yeah. And I mean, we're waiting to find out maybe this happened while I was talking to Billy Bush, but we're waiting to find out whether or not the Justice Department is going to seek an indictment against the FBI director, former FBI Director Jim Comey.
- [40:02]
Ryan Lizza
Yeah.
- [40:02]
Jim Acosta
And just the last several minutes we saw there's a headline, Ryan, that says that apparently they're going to go after Soros, too. This is in the New York Times. Senior Justice Department official has instructed more than a half dozen US Attorneys to draft plans to investigate a group funded by George Soros. So, I mean, this is, you know, he's on a roll.
- [40:20]
Ryan Lizza
Yeah. Someone in Todd Blanche's office apparently sent out this memo. It's based on this right wing group that has done their own alleged investigation of the Soros foundation and making some, you know, rather serious allegations about the Source foundation and money and trying to tie it to terrorism. And look, this is the, this is the piece of the Trump administration that is the most dangerous. And it's just sort of taking flight here is really going into these U.S. attorney's offices across the country, finding the most loyal MAGA people. And the President of the United States sitting in the Oval Office is trying to take the reins of these U.S. attorney's office around the country and direct them, and direct them to dig up crimes against his enemies. So if you have crossed Donald Trump, you're on a target list. And I think we've learned how easy it is when if a prosecutor wants to do something or just to tarnish someone's reputation, you don't even actually have to indict them. You can find something. I mean, they've got people rifling through the mortgage applications of people that Donald Trump hates, like Adam Schiff and Letitia James. And I guarantee, you know, if prosecutor comes after anyone in this country, they can find a crime.
- [41:56]
Jim Acosta
Yeah.
- [41:56]
Ryan Lizza
That's why the prosecutor's office is one of the most powerful institutions in America. And that's why over the last, you know, 50, 60 years, since the, since the battle days of the 50s, 60s and 70s, when some of when the Justice Department, you know, was a little out of control in some ways, we have put up a lot of guardrails to insulate the Department of Justice from politics. And they've just been completely torn down. And, you know, James Comey is going to be the first, you know, the first victim here, it looks like, to see how far Trump can take this.
- [42:39]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, I can't imagine the courts are going to go along with this, though. I mean, that's the thing. I mean, he's put it out. He put it out on a truth social post over the weekend, you know, saying, why can't we, you know, why can't we go after these people? You know, talking to Pam, it was almost like a direct message that he said to Pam Bondi, except it was a truth social post saying, why can't we go after people like Adam Schiff and Letitia James and Jim Comey and so on? He has an enemy's list.
- [43:02]
Ryan Lizza
He has an enemy's list. And like, the Comey thing is just totally outrageous because he found a sort of MAGA sympathetic US Attorney in the Eastern District of Virginia where they want to go after Comey, the prosecutor, the career people wrote a memo saying, we don't have a case, don't indict. He got rid of her, or, excuse me, him, I believe, and now he's in replaced the U.S. attorney with, I mean, basically the lowest ranking member of his defense team from all the criminal cases that he was dealing with last year. And that person has no prosecutorial experience. And they're racing against the clock because this is apparently a perjury charge from Comey's congressional testimony five years ago, I believe. Right. And so Tuesday, the statute, the statute of limitations runs out.
- [44:03]
Jim Acosta
Right, right.
- [44:05]
Ryan Lizza
And I think it's going to be, you know, fascinating. A couple of things. One, Comey has the right to go into the grand jury and present his, his side of the case as if you remember, Trump did with one of, with one of his cases. I think it was one of the, one of the New York cases. Right?
- [44:21]
Jim Acosta
Yeah.
- [44:22]
Ryan Lizza
And we've seen a rebellion in D.C. against these sort of MAGA aligned. The MAGA aligned U.S. attorney's office, which is now run I Can't Believe this Is Real by Jeanine Pirro. And you can't make this shit up. Yeah, you can make this shit up. I mean, they went after the, you know, the submarine sandwich guy like three different times. And the DC GR jurors were like, no, we're not doing it, we're not doing this. And, you know, there were other cases. So, you know, Eastern District of Virginia might be A little different. I don't know the, you know, I don't know exactly what the, what the jury pool would be like there. But I, that's one thing is, is will there be a similar rebellion given the prominence of this news? I mean, anyone who's paying a little bit attention is going in to do grand jury service. You know, they're going to know the basic facts. Which is why, you know, I think it is important since there's the only thing that changes anything with, with Trump is if Republicans speak up. And Republicans have basically been cult like in going along with everything. There are a couple of voices on the right that have been loud and opposing Trump directing prosecutions. Andrew McCarthy, National Review, who has, you know, who's gone along with a lot of crazy Trump stuff. He's argued that this won't work because Trump's directing this will just destroy the whole case.
- [45:52]
Jim Acosta
Right.
- [45:53]
Ryan Lizza
The Wall Street Journal editorial page, which by now, you know, has broken with Trump on just about everything and is no longer aligned with him in almost any way. They've said the same thing. But you haven't seen like the Ted Cruz's and the Rand Paul's and the, you know, the Mike Lees, people who claim to be libertarians, who care about the abuse of state power, anyone on the Judiciary Committee in the Senate. Those people have just been silent as Trump threatens the liberty of innocent people who, you know, he got crosswise one way or the other in his first term.
- [46:34]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, well, and you mentioned the statute of limitations running out on, on Comey on September 30th. That's not the only thing that runs out. Apparently the government runs out of money and we may have a government shutdown. And you have, you have the Trump people saying, you know, Russ, vote over OMB and so on, saying, well, we're just going to start firing federal workers if you let the government shut down. Telling the Democrats that, which of course is a key constituency for the Democratic Party trying to force them to the table. What do you think the Democrats should do about this? Because my sense of it is, is that they should just tell them to go fuck themselves. And I mean, if they're going to negotiate by taking hostages, you can't. I mean, it's like the old saying goes, don't negotiate with terrorists.
- [47:17]
Ryan Lizza
Yeah, I've been, I haven't, I don't have a strong opinion on this. I've been paying very close attention to a lot of people who I respect, you know, pushing Hakeem Jeffries and Schumer to be tougher and not to worry about a shutdown and people who are convinced that it will be blamed on Trump. I, you know, I don't think Jeffries and Schumer are necessarily the, the right people for this moment in our country. I don't think they've sort of proven themselves up to the task and it's.
- [47:54]
Jim Acosta
A little hard to watch.
- [47:55]
Ryan Lizza
Yeah, yeah, but I, I, you know, my kind of old school instincts on this are a little bit with them in the sense that want to avoid the shutdown any way you can. And look, this card that Trump has now played with firing workers is, you know, that is some, some serious leverage. I mean, he's a completely irrational, crazy person who does not care about the federal government or federal government workers.
- [48:24]
Jim Acosta
Right.
- [48:25]
Ryan Lizza
And so negotiating with someone, you're negotiating with, you know, with a lunatic who doesn't care, you know, who's got a gun to the government and doesn't that's.
- [48:36]
Jim Acosta
What he's doing about firing.
- [48:39]
Ryan Lizza
So I don't. Look.
- [48:42]
Jim Acosta
Go ahead, say that.
- [48:43]
Ryan Lizza
No, I just, I don't have great advice for the Democrats this. They, they, you know, they, if they maneuver themselves into a government shutdown, the politics are that they absolutely, it absolutely has to be blamed on Trump. Well, right. Yes, Republicans have the, have the, the same goal, but Trump and the Republicans are willing and have a track record of being okay with doing a lot more damage, inflicting a lot more pain than the Democrats who, you know, trying to govern responsibly.
- [49:19]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, well, and they tried to govern responsibly earlier this year when this came up, and they've paid a price. I mean, the progressive base of the Democratic Party has, We don't like this. And to me, this is a moment for Democrats to say we don't want to participate in paying for ICE people sweeping people off the streets and masks and paying for taking a meat ax to Medicaid and all of the things that they want to do. I mean, the Republicans have the majority in the House and the Senate. And so to me, this is like a no brainer. I don't know why the Democrats are even, why, you know, he kicked him out. He canceled his meeting with Schumer and Jeffries the other day. At that point, they should have said, okay, we're just gonna go pop some popcorn now, we'll see you later.
- [50:06]
Ryan Lizza
Look, I think that's the best argument for the Democrats is they, it's very hard for them to get attention on any of their issues. And this crisis, unfortunately, is the, it might be the way to have that debate and really, really shine a light on Trump's policies and what are you spending money on? But so, you know, I'm sympathetic to that. So you're pro Democrats should play this card, push it as hard as they can. Tell Trump to fuck off and shut the government down if he wants.
- [50:38]
Jim Acosta
I do, yeah. I think that that's what they should do. I think at this point, you know, he's, Mr. I hate my opponents. He's Mr. Let's go indict James Comey. I mean, there's a story today, Pete Hegseth has summoned some 800 generals for some secret meeting. Nobody knows. What's that about? We don't know what that's about. To me, it's sort of like all bets are off. And why are the Democrats even thinking about going along with this slide towards autocracy? He's siccing the FCC on late night comedians. He's talking about pulling licenses. At some point, somebody has to tell him, we're gonna pump the brakes here as one of the other branches of government. But that's just me.
- [51:23]
Ryan Lizza
You have, I, you have no argument for me about that. Obviously. My only reservation is, is, is the government shutdown the best way to do that? But then again, there, they don't have very many tools.
- [51:38]
Jim Acosta
They don't have much.
- [51:39]
Ryan Lizza
Congress is controlled by Republicans. The courts are. The Supreme Court has just proven itself to be a tool of, of, of Trump that, that, you know, tells the lower courts to go themselves, you know, writes, you know, uses the, the shadow docket for, for its decisions. Doesn't explain itself. The Justice Department has been completely politicized, and corporate media is subject to threats from regulatory agencies to enforce, you know, editorial control. So we're, we're living in, like, you know, a really, really, really bad time. And yeah, I wake up every day thinking how come people aren't in the streets? The President of the United States is, is, is telling prosecutors to, you know, try and take away the liberty of a political opponent. And, you know, every day there's something that's that crazy. We're, we're losing our democracy, Jim. And I, I, I, I never thought I would say that. I never thought I would.
- [52:45]
Jim Acosta
I know.
- [52:45]
Ryan Lizza
Watch this up close. And I don't understand two things. I don't understand how Republicans in Congress who campaigned on the federal government turning into a Goliath that just abuses the rights and liberties of the American people, how they can just sit by and watch this, if for no other reason.
- [53:14]
Billy Bush
Then.
- [53:17]
Ryan Lizza
Eventually they Think perhaps a Democrat might be president and use the same rules against them, I mean, just for selfish political purposes.
- [53:25]
Jim Acosta
So the problem is, we don't know. Is Trump interested in having elections? He's trying to get these states to redraw the congressional maps. He wants to throw out mail in balloting. He's having his Justice Department fool around with voter rolls in a couple of states here and there. And I mean, there is some real pre election, pre midterms suppression shit going down right now. And to me, it's sort of like the Democrats. It seems like they've been dealt one card, not five cards. They've been dealt one card, and it seems like it's the shutdown card and they should just tell the Republicans, we're not cleaning up your goddamn dirty diaper. Donald Trump is your dirty diaper. You go clean it up. You, Mike Johnson, go down to the White House and clean up the dirty diaper. Chuck Schumer and Jeffrey Schumer saying, this is not our dirty diaper. And to me, it's the one card they have to slow his roll.
- [54:31]
Billy Bush
Yeah.
- [54:31]
Ryan Lizza
And look, the other part of that is Trump, by canceling the meeting, he has, he's not a good negotiator and he acts impulsively and irrationally. And so in that sense, he's playing into their hands, which is setting up, you know, a series of indefensible tactics and arguments that the Democrats can easily point to and say, we tried, we tried to negotiate with this person. He wouldn't even take the meeting. You know, our votes aren't going to be there for this. Republicans control the White House and Congress, you know, keep the government open. But I do think that, that just from a politically, it's really, really important that that groundwork is laid, that this is not Chuck Schumer and Hakeem Jeffries out there saying we're going to shut the government down, you know, because of these Trump policies. But we're shutting it down because this is a mess of Trump's creation and he refuses to negotiate in good faith. And frankly, that is happening. So the argument will be there. But this is a messaging game, you know, and a blame game that they have to, to be very careful about. I mean, you've seen this, you know, we've both covered these, these things many times.
- [55:59]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, no, there's no question. And the other, you know, weak need behavior that we're seeing is with the networks, folks in big media, corporate media, and you wrote about whether, you know, Apple is now the new Disney for Shelving a new show on right wing extremism. A lot of people may not know about this, but, but this involves a big movie star, Jessica Chastain. The Associated Press wrote about this, saying she disagrees with Apple TV's decision to postpone the release of the political thriller series the Savant following the assassination of Charlie Kirk. The show, if I'm not mistaken, Ryan, is about Jessica Chastain trying to infiltrate right wing extremist groups. And Apple is taking the wuss way out here and shelving the show when it really is a subject matter that Americans need to know about.
- [56:50]
Ryan Lizza
Yeah, I'm surprised this hasn't gotten more coverage, actually, Jim. This show, they dropped the trailer in late August and, you know, a lot of shit's going on. So I don't think most people were paying attention to this, but people at Apple were paying attention to it. There were a bunch of right wing social media accounts that immediately mocked the show, said it should be canceled, said it was, you know, woke garbage. The show is based on a 2019 magazine article in Cosmopolitan about someone who goes undercover and tries to infiltrate white supremacist right wing groups and stop mass shootings and acts of domestic terrorism before they happen. Well, you know, six years later, it's been turned into this Apple TV plus series that's supposed to drop tomorrow. Yeah, and they pulled it with no explanation and said that, you know, they said it's going to be postponed. The, the lead of the show criticized the decision, as you pointed out. And you know, you can't disentangle this from the context of Apple's relationship with the Trump administration this year, where Tim Cook personally donated a million dollars to the inaugural committee, famously showed up inaugural at the inauguration with all the other tech titans, and has been lobbying Trump all year to escape the insane tariffs that Trump was trying to punish Apple with. And so Apple's close to the Trump administration and it was reported by the New York Times that they did pull the show because of the Charlie Kirk assassination. And I just, I think it's cowardly to, to, to, to, to do this because of a few right wing bloggers, you know, didn't, didn't like the show. And I could kind of understand all the, all the sucking up to Trump that, that Apple had to do over the tariffs they're trying to protect, you know, protect the company. But this is different. This is selling out the actors and the other creatives at the, at the company, you know, and it's sort of a, it's, you know, it's like pre compliance. It's like, we're gonna pull this show because we don't want, you know, Trump to find out about it and. Or other right wingers to find out about it and go after us. And, you know, it's. It's just. This is scary. I mean, I never really. You read about the Red scare, you read about other times in the country where this kind of thing went on, and you just never thought that you'd be living through this.
- [59:39]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, but. No, but here we are.
- [59:43]
Ryan Lizza
Paramount, Disney, all these companies just. They can't. You know, we. We have allowed the media and all of our creative content to be housed in these giant corporations. And I think a lot of us didn't realize how that could all go south. If you have a government that is willing to weaponize the fcc, the ftc, all the, you know, the Alphabet agencies against these corporations and how you can get them to change their editorial strategies, and you have these now ideological enforcers in the administration and online just harassing these companies. And these companies, at the end of the day are generally cowards. Now, the last thing I'll say about this is my view of the lesson of the Jimmy Kimmel thing was, you know, the backlash worked, the protests worked, and I'm a little surprised that Tim Cook or whoever made this decision at Apple didn't realize, like, oh, shit, you know what? They put Kimmel right back on air because people canceled their fucking Disney subscription.
- [60:53]
Jim Acosta
Exactly.
- [60:54]
Ryan Lizza
And I don't want that to happen to the, you know, 16 different Apple subscriptions that you can. You can sign up for.
- [61:01]
Jim Acosta
That's right. No, it's. You're absolutely right. It's. It's what Tim Snyder talks about. The obedience in advance. And a lot of these companies, they're just. It's just a profile in cowardice. They're just letting us down at every turn. And it, I think, to me, raises the question as to whether we just need to. To rethink the way the media works in this country and whether we need to have maybe a more robust public broadcasting system in this country. You know, maybe that maybe we can't leave it just to the corporations. Maybe independent nonprofit media is the way to go. I don't know. I mean, yeah, you and I aren't rich enough to have our own film studio where we can do this kind of thing and then just sort of let the artist do that.
- [61:46]
Ryan Lizza
Like a hostage video set up today. I know, in my room because I, you know, Caroline's in there doing her piano lesson.
- [61:53]
Jim Acosta
I'M in my goddamn. I'm in my goddamn dining room, Brian. You tell me about it. And Duke's bringing me his toy every now and then. It's time for our walk. But sorry I was a little late today. I was doing this other thing with this other guy. But thanks for the patience. Thanks for being with us.
- [62:09]
Ryan Lizza
Anytime. Jim, love talking to you. Take care.
- [62:11]
Jim Acosta
All right to see you. All right, you too. That's Ryan Lizza, my pal. And also very worried about the state of our democracy. Very worried about the state of our country right now. And who can blame them? I mean, we're all on the same boat right now. And to me, and it goes back to the conversation we were having earlier, here we are, we're staring down the barrel of a government shutdown, Donald Trump and the people inside the White House because they don't want to negotiate. He wants to act like a strong man. He wants to act like a king. They are threatening the federal workforce yet again. And they're saying, well, if you shut down, but if you don't vote for us and these horrible policies, we're gonna start firing workers. Firing federal workers during government shutdown. I'm reminded of when Ronald Reagan, and I'm gonna quote a Republican here, Ronald Reagan, when he was president of the United States, and he quoted Clint Eastwood. A lot of some of our younger viewers might not remember this, but Clint Eastwood appeared in the Dirty Harry movies back in the 80s, and there was one movie, I used to love it back in the day called Sudden Impact. And Ronald Reagan once quoted Clint Eastwood saying, go ahead, punk, make my day. And that is the posture that the Democrats should have right now when it comes to Donald Trump. They should be saying to Donald Trump, go ahead, punk, make my day. If he's going to hold the government hostage, then the shutdown is on him, is it not? If he is refusing to meet with the Democrats, refusing to meet with Chuck Schumer and Hakeem Jeffries, the government shutdown is on him, is it not? And so, you know, Democrats, they need to understand that they may be holding on to better cards than they think at this point. Forget the focus groups, forget the pollsters telling you, oh, you know, 47% says this and 53% says that. Ask yourself, should we be funding the. The behavior that we've been seeing over the last seven months. Donald Trump sending the National Guard into Democratic cities, sending the Marines into Los Angeles, sending ICE raids all around the country, just sweeping people off the streets. Citizen, non citizen, doesn't matter. As Long as they look Hispanic, as long as they have a Spanish last name or speak Spanish, they get swept up.
- [64:35]
Billy Bush
Up.
- [64:36]
Jim Acosta
He's about to decimate Medicaid and potentially Medicare. He has done nothing when it comes to inflation. It has all been about enriching the 1% in this country. He's going after his political enemies. He's sticking the DOJ on Jim Comey now, for Christ's sake, how long ago did that whole thing go down? That went down like eight years ago. And he's still pissed about it. And he still wants revenge against Jim Comey. My God, I thought Billy Bush was a name from the past. He's still obsessed with Jim Comey. And this is the problem with the Democrats. They just have lost some sort of collective ability to fight back. And I'm sorry, but that is what the American people are clamoring for right now. That is what. What Republicans are clamoring for right now. Why won't Donald Trump release the Epstein files? Why is he working behind the scenes? There's a whole thing in the Wall Street Journal about this. It's been going on for months, the way they're trying to suppress the Epstein files. Enough is enough. Why are the Democrats even contemplating going along with this behavior? If I were telling them what to say, it would be to quote Ronald Reagan quoting Clint Eastwood. Go ahead, punk. Make my day. All right, thanks, everybody for tuning in. Really appreciate it. It's a little bit of a weird show today, but my thanks to everybody for tuning in. Really appreciate the time. Still reporting from Washington, I'm Jim Acosta. Have a good evening. Thanks a lot. It.