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- [00:00]
Aaron Brockovich
Foreign.
- [00:06]
Jim Acosta
Welcome to the Jim Acosta Show. And it's another day that ends in y in the explosion of data centers across America. Let's discuss with a very special guest, a consumer advocate, environmentalist, inspiration for the film Aaron Brockovich. The amazing Aaron Brockovich. There she is. Hi, Aaron. How you doing?
- [00:25]
Aaron Brockovich
I'm good. How are you? Nice to see you.
- [00:28]
Jim Acosta
Nice to see you, too. I was just saying before we got started, I'm such a big admirer of yours and love the film, of course, and everything that you did for all of those wonderful people out in California back in the day. And now you have a new cause, you have a new mission, a new battle. And I can't think of anybody better than Aaron Brockovich for taking on the explosion of data centers around this country. You have a great substack on this, but I guess first I want to dive into that and all the numbers and metrics and maps and so on. But tell us what happened? How did this happen? How are you, Erin Brockovich, now taking the charge on this?
- [01:04]
Aaron Brockovich
You know, exactly the same way Hinckley, California did. Those were not my expectations at all. So I've learned over 30 years of doing this. When one person reports from a community, that's. That's notable always. But when you wake up in the morning and there's 30 emails unbeknownst to each other but from the same community, that's usually a moment where I'm like, what's going on over there? And of course, it was about data centers. And for me, I'm a real curious person. I'm a very visual person. So my first thing was, you know, all of us, and I don't say disrespectfully, live in our own bubble. We all have our own lives, and so do I. And. And so we'll hear something about a data center, but we think, oh, it's just there. So I decided to do a map because I like to see the big picture. So what started with 30 people from a location? When I put it up on the map and threw it out to Facebook, I was shocked. The next day, the system went down twice. And within 72 hours, there was over 3,000 submissions coming from 49 states. And I was like, oh, my God, this isn't a town. This is the whole country.
- [02:26]
Jim Acosta
It's everywhere. Yeah. And we're showing one of these maps right now to our viewers. And, you know, for folks who want to know about this, it's on substack. The Brockovich report. Your piece. If data centers are so great. Why are they being built in secret? But in there, there's a link to your website on all of this. And if you just navigate over to the map, you can see this extraordinary map and that shows where they're at right now, where they're under consideration, where they're being proposed and where you're starting to see news reports of these data centers. And you can. It almost blankets half of the country. And then they're popping up in some pretty rural places in out west as well. So that's got to be the next frontier for the next big explosion.
- [03:08]
Aaron Brockovich
You can absolutely see that. And we're getting more and more reports from, you know, the West. So as of last night, we had but 5,384 submissions. So I'm reading each submission and then they're vetted before and they're vetted again before they're pinned on the map. So we're behind. But this week we'll do another update and we'll probably be over 6,000. And I'm uploading more submissions. So I think next week it's going to be 7,000. So it is coming fast and furious. And I read each one so we can plot them directly and you know, if you don't give a zip code. So I want to know exactly what's happening. But what's fascinating to me is we're able to run stats out of there, you know, what's bothering them the most, what's happening in their own backyard. I believe we have no better storytelling and an account of, of any situation than none other from the actual community. And oftentimes, you know, people don't want to believe them, they don't want to listen to them. But when you start to see it in larger numbers like this, you've got everyone's attention.
- [04:25]
Jim Acosta
Yeah.
- [04:25]
Aaron Brockovich
And so the numbers keep growing and the stats are, are quite interesting.
- [04:31]
Jim Acosta
No, and, and they're alarming. And I, I will confess I have been wanting to do more on this for a really long time, and I don't know enough on it. I wish I knew more about it, but as I'm educating myself, I have to say I'm becoming more and more concerned about what we're seeing. I mean, just looking at your piece, U.S. data centers consumed more than 4% of total U.S. electricity. Total U.S. electricity in 2023. According to the MIT Energy Initiative, that number could more than double to 9% by 2030. That's almost 10% of the of electricity consumption in the United States. A single hyperscale data center can consume as much electricity as 50,000 homes. That's incredible.
- [05:14]
Aaron Brockovich
It is. Especially the drain on an already failing infrastructure.
- [05:19]
Jim Acosta
Right.
- [05:20]
Aaron Brockovich
So it's really very concerning. And what I love about the map is, you know, reports like that and studies and groups come in. There's no better way to learn about what's going on than getting down on the ground and being with the people.
- [05:34]
Jim Acosta
And what are people saying? Because it seems to me that people are really pissed off about this and they're way ahead of the curve in terms of what lawmakers are doing about this. Local government, state governments, federal government. The people are ahead on this. They're way ahead on this.
- [05:49]
Aaron Brockovich
They are, because it's happening in their backyard. And so we kind of have groups as you take in the submissions and read them, some are proposals. So at a proposal stage, communities are reporting they do show up, but they're excluded quickly because council has signed an NDA. So right there they're pissed because what are you building? They're coming in and presenting them sometimes at a proposal stage as a warehouse, not a data center. So there's a lot of secrecy. And NDAs at a very proposal stage or flat out, the city council isn't hearing the people's choice and doing it anyway. So they feel like it's just been shoved down their throat in secrecy and that makes them upset. I've worked in communities for 30 years. They handle the truth. Interestingly enough, they do. What they won't deal with is a lie or a cover up that'll get them every time. So at a proposal stage, that's what we're seeing. And the biggest problem is the NDAs at a very local level. You know, I find that disturbing because I, I encourage people to go to city council because if you don't show up, they don't know what's going on. Right? Well, this time they show up. And city council knew it was going on, but they concealed it from them. And this is being reported from almost every state. So what, what am I looking at? Local corruption in every state. That's very, very disturbing to me. And then the next phase is construction and they're reporting we are living through the construction phase and we're going to start putting some of these photos up for people on the map too. It's, it's kind of mind boggling because again, I'm visual and you don't realize how big some of these facilities are. They're huge, huge. And to watch the destruction of the trees coming down and the forest you know, the woods being destroyed and the water's right there and what's happening to the animals and where did the animals go? And the construction dust, not to mention the noise, which the noise gets worse once the facility is built. But so their whole life is up, just turned upside down during construction. And so then there's the ones that are running. So what we see out of the ones that are currently running is electric bills. They're doubling, they're tripling, people are beside themselves. They're also worried about the water consumption. And there's a lot of reports that, you know, their water, with you sucking up that much water, if the water pressure goes low, people say they're having to fill pots with water because it's just a trickle.
- [08:47]
Jim Acosta
Wow.
- [08:47]
Aaron Brockovich
Let alone their concerns about is it contaminated?
- [08:51]
Jim Acosta
Well, so, yeah, and I was going to say, I mean, U.S. news and world Report just did a whole study on this whole piece on this, and they report the US has more than 4,000 data centers, which is nearly eight times the number of any other country. And to your point, there's the, there's the energy consumption and so on. But the other thing is that few studies have examined how this, according to U.S. news World Report, how data centers affect health. But findings so far suggest data centers warrant closer scrutiny. Americans find themselves neighboring data centers with all sorts of health issues. And you know, there's, there's the issue of air noise and water pollution from data centers. And long term impacts could, could include increased risk of respiratory disease, cardiovascular disease, mental health struggles, stroke, diabetes, adverse reproductive outcomes like miscarriage and stillbirth. I mean, that this is a, this is a whammy. This is a, people just don't know what's happening.
- [09:50]
Aaron Brockovich
You know, that it's very true. And the fact that we already have 4,000 we don't know anything about. And even at the beginning of the proposal stage, you know, they're putting some pauses out there. We're seeing more than not, thank goodness about environmental impacts. But this makes me think about even chemicals like the pfas. You know, we put the cart before the horse and then we, the people become the guinea pig. And it makes me think of PFAS that, you know, the agencies were warned decades ago it could be a problem. So they're like, okay, we'll create some guideline, I guess, and then they study it. You know, that takes 15 years and it costs millions and millions, millions of dollars only to find out, oh, Houston, we have a problem. We're setting ourselves up for that exact Same scenario.
- [10:39]
Jim Acosta
Incredible. And there are so in some cases there are big celebrities who are backing these projects. Kevin o', Leary, who is a right wing Republican hack. But in addition to that being he's a celebrity. This is according to Grist and the Salt Lake City Tribune, the that this plan for a hyperscale data center in rural Utah is so massive it would consume more than double the state's current electricity use. It's of course generated this huge public and political outcry in Utah. But this would span 40,000 acres, demand 9 gigawatts of power, raise the state's carbon emissions by 64%. This is all according to the Salt Lake City Tribune newspaper. It would also create a massive heat island capable of devastating the area's ecology. That is according to a local physics professor at Utah State University. The project would cover about as many square miles as Washington D.C. making it the largest data center on the planet. And it could produce a heat spike with temperatures going up as as much as 28 degrees Fahrenheit in a desert. Insane.
- [11:51]
Aaron Brockovich
They have been reporting that in to my submissions. The heat, they're noticing those temperature changes. It's mind boggling. And the state of Utah, the citizens are livid and yeah, they're fighting as hard as they can and they're so worried it'll be on deaf ears and they had some hope. And I had read today that it could be a ballot measure in November, but apparently state Attorney general somebody said that's not going to happen.
- [12:20]
Jim Acosta
And but Kevin o' Leary getting behind this obviously makes it tough on probably local Republican leaders in Utah to oppose him. He's got a big megaphone. He can go on Fox and all these other places and bash those politicians if they don't go along with it. But this is indicative of something that you've come across, Aaron, and that the people of Utah are rising up against this project. People are rising up against these data centers all around the country. It's, it's really a massively undercovered story.
- [12:49]
Aaron Brockovich
It really is. And you know, back I couldn't agree with you more. And I was stunned when I saw that first 70 towers of the map. I was like, oh my God, it's a whole country. I had no idea. And you know, somebody asked me the other day, so who's the villain in this story? And I stopped for a minute and I'm like, well I don't even want to think of this at a local city level, but is it those three elder councilmen in Utah? They had the power to put a pause and to say we're not going to zone or permit anything. That's their authority until we have further studies about the impact. And so I, I think about that at that level and you know, I guess those three elder council members. What was the cost to Kevin o'? Leary? Fifteen billion.
- [13:42]
Jim Acosta
Right, Exactly. Well, and the other thing you mentioned too, and this is something that you'll find in all the reporting on this, is that some of the biggest tech companies in the world are behind these data centers. So companies like Amazon, Google, Meta, and there's a, there's a trade group called Net Choice in dc. This is sort of the trade group that, that local folks are up against when they battle these things. And then this trade group will put out these ads on their local TV stations and in their papers saying, oh no, the data centers are great, it'll do this, it'll do that for your community. And this is what local residents are up against. They're up against a massive PR machine financed by the biggest tech companies in the world that are putting these data centers in these very vulnerable communities.
- [14:30]
Aaron Brockovich
While it is, it's like a PGE showing up in your backyard and they've got all the money and everything. And look, I think communities definitely want to be thoughtful and get it, you know, people need jobs and there's, there's always this concern as you know, AI gets stronger. Could it, could it take away jobs? Those jobs will be short lived, but they understand that. I think it's the pressure possibly though. And in our submissions they tell us who the source is. Amazon is a big one and Amazon's getting pretty active in Oregon and I'm starting to see a lot of activity out of Oregon and it is Meta and it is Google. So it is the big tech companies for 98% of everything I've seen come in that's bringing these in to drive AI. So it's a slippery slope and an argument. But again, you know, there's an opportunity and I've seen it for a really long time from all corporations to do the right thing, but they get so greedy about the money. They could come in and handle this way differently with the community, way differently with the council and do its studies first and even find out themselves. This could be too much of an impact. And my gosh, there's many other places you can build these. It does not have to be in every person's backyard. And so there's room here and the communities are always willing for it. For companies show up man, and tell them what's going on, you better have some reports, give them some studies or the city council needs to say we're going to take a pause until I know more information. But for some reason the money is very lucrative and I think city councils get bowled over. They struggle from their money and their funding. And so if someone comes along and says, yeah, I'll give you 15 billion, I'm not sure what's going on at city council at that point, but suddenly we got NDAs and we, and we're going to rock and roll.
- [16:37]
Jim Acosta
Yeah. And Aaron, that's the thing that is really disturbing about this and I think it's the key part of your article on substack is the use of these non disclosure agreements. I mean that, how is that even allowed with city governments, with local municipalities that you can, you can put muzzles on local politicians who are supposed to be representing the people, their constituents. That's wild.
- [17:00]
Aaron Brockovich
It shouldn't be that way. And again, you know, I've always said go local and I'm frustrated. We went local this time and show up and boy howdy are they showing up and the door is slammed in their face. Yeah, that's cowardly councils again. There's some hope through people showing up that councils are taking pauses. They had a big one yesterday in New Jersey, six months to one year, some to two years and it's a pause. And so I think that's really necessary. But I think it's, it's the people on the council. I, I found it interesting. I think it was Festus, Missouri, they voted them all off. And by the way, people have the power to do that. You voted it in, vote them out.
- [17:43]
Jim Acosta
Right? That's true. And, and there are cases, I mean I was doing some, you know, some searching around today for these kinds of stories and there have been a lot of cases of communities that have blocked these centers from coming in. But sometimes you don't find out about these centers until they, they've already been approved or absolutely they've already gotten a foothold. And you know, I mean, so it, it is, it's sort of incumbent upon the local residents in their communities to have their ears to the ground. If there's any rumbling of anything like this coming down the pike, you got to be ready.
- [18:15]
Aaron Brockovich
We've done this though for forever. Even with the epa, you allow something in the stream of commerce before you even know what it's going to do, only to find out 10, 15 years later, we have a problem. We're set. Where is it? What we're not learning or our agencies aren't learning. You give me studies and safety on the upfront. You don't get to come in and do it. And we're going to find out five years from now. I don't want to find out five years from now what kind of problems we have with the water. We've lost our land, we've lost our farmland, we've lost our wildlife. We're losing our health. What are we possibly thinking? It's not going to work.
- [18:57]
Jim Acosta
Yeah. And Aaron, I mean, you. You are a veteran of these kinds of battles. You bought. I mean, you, you know, you kind of wrote the book on battling a big public utility like PG&E out in California. There was a whole movie made about this, about how a local utility was destroying the groundwater and causing cancer to flare up in these communities. And so for you to put your name on this, it seems to me that should get people's attention. If Aaron Brockovich is on the ca, you're not. You're not going to just go and latch on to something unless there's a real public health concern here. It seems to be. And. And the water's a big part of this. Local pollution is a big part of this infrastructure.
- [19:37]
Aaron Brockovich
Your energy grid, the energy bills, what you're doing to the farmland, to the water, to the destruction of the trees, to the wildlife. This is our sanctuary. And sometimes everyone's worried AI will end mankind. I don't think AI is doing that. I think we are. I think man will end mankind. And how to stop and reign in the frenzy of who's going to be the next trillionaire?
- [20:12]
Jim Acosta
And then we're seeing it right before our eyes right now. The data centers are a part of that.
- [20:16]
Aaron Brockovich
Yeah. And so I. I think we need to take a long, hard look at that. I think we need solid council members, and I think we should have regulation. Now, regulation is important if you're going to get out there and enforce it. If you're going to have regulations and not enforce it, then we're going to have to have another conversation. But you can have some legislation around it. But these are some reins. These are some boundaries. This is what people need and some understanding before you go forward. And, you know, who's to know in five years if these things will even matter? You know, technology moves that fast. I've read about Nvidia having a small little data center that sit on your desk and you can run it off your solar.
- [20:57]
Jim Acosta
Right.
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Aaron Brockovich
So what's the rush? I think a lot of people are starting to ask that. What is the rush?
- [21:05]
Jim Acosta
Incredible. Well, Aaron, I mean, your sub stack is phenomenal. I encourage people to check it out. If data centers are so great, why are they being built in secret? That's a pretty good question. And it's got the map in there. It's got the map in there and everything else. And people can see where these maps, you know, where the maps show these centers are being built. And, you know, Aaron, I think if you're on the case, I'm telling you there's something happening and people need to pay attention to it. So it's great to talk to you. Thank you so much for coming on.
- [21:34]
Aaron Brockovich
Hey, it's so great to talk to you. And I want every listener to know, honestly, when we show up, we can change things. And congratulations on your sub stack. I'm a huge fan and I hope we catch up again soon.
- [21:45]
Jim Acosta
Let's do it. Keep us posted and maybe we'll come out to. If you do one of these beatings out there, maybe we can come out and take a look, because that would be, I think, really great, you know, great, A great thing to do for the community out there. So thank you.
- [21:56]
Aaron Brockovich
Absolutely. So I, I'll, I'll call you back. But again, congratulations. Thanks for having me on. I'll see you soon.
- [22:03]
Jim Acosta
You bet. All right. Thanks, Aaron. Really appreciate it. Aaron Brockovich, man, she. She is still fighting the good fight out there and just doing incredible work on behalf of a lot of people who feel like they are not being listened to. And this is what's happening all around the country. And so we're going to stay on top of this. I want to confess, I have not done enough on this. I'm going to continue to do more on this because of Erin Brockovich. So we really appreciate her time. There's a, There's a big breaking news story that's happening right now in Washington, D.C. that we have to get to, and it's one that I have been covering quite a bit. As folks who regularly watch this program know, a judge has told Donald Trump, you have to take your name off the Kennedy Center. That's right. That did happen. That is happening right now. And I don't know, of course, we have no idea. We know how Donald Trump is. He doesn't listen to judges. He doesn't listen to the court system. He likes to thumb his nose at all of those things. But there is a, there's a story in Reuters and CNBC and all the other places this afternoon, Federal judge telling Donald Trump he cannot rename the Kennedy center and that he can't close it unilaterally. So there, there's that issue as well, but there it is right there. From Reuters, US Judge orders removal of Trump's name from Kennedy Center. And so as soon as that starts, if that comes, if that happens, man, you know, I'm going to be out there. But let's bring in my pal Tommy Christopher for Mediaite. There he is. Tommy. Tommy. I feel like, hey, buddy. I feel like this is gonna be like the fall of the Berlin Wall. If Donald Trump's name comes off the
- [23:29]
Tommy Christopher
Kennedy center, it'll be, it'll be the MAGA Berlin Wall. Exactly.
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Jim Acosta
I mean, but it just goes to show you, like, you know, I, the system can put brakes on some of this nuttiness.
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Tommy Christopher
You have to keep in mind, Jim, this is a fake judge appointed by Barack Hussein Obama.
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Jim Acosta
That's right. Yeah, I know. You know, he's, he's gonna, he's gonna do this picking and screaming, if he even does it.
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Tommy Christopher
Radical, lunatic. Yeah, no, well, that, exactly, that's exactly what will happen. You know, I'm sure that they're going to appeal this to, to the Supreme Court. And this is sort of like a lose win, because it's definitely going to lose, but this is going to be an easy, it's such an easy case for the Supreme Court that they can say, look, see, we don't do everything Trump wants.
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Jim Acosta
Right.
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Tommy Christopher
But because there's, it's just, the law is so clear and you know, that, that, that's going to take a while. Well, actually, you know, this, there's two ways this could go. He can appeal it or he can try and get a law passed before the midterms, which I still don't think he's going to get it past the Senate.
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Jim Acosta
Right. He's going to try to.
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Tommy Christopher
Said they could change the law to, you know, change his name.
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Jim Acosta
Exactly right. Only Congress can do that. And Congress, I guess, could do that, and then he would have to sign that into law and so on, but who knows if any of that's going to happen.
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Tommy Christopher
But I'm in there. But like, so the lettering, is it engraved or is it like raised lettering on the outside?
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Jim Acosta
It's raised lettering. I don't know if we have the footage from when I went down there. This was months ago when they put his name up there and, you know, I described it as vandalism. He vandalized the Kennedy Centers. And they just basically, you know, I don't want to say pasted them up. But they affixed his letter, the names and his, the letters in his name to the out, out outside exterior wall of Kennedy Center. Sorry, it's Friday, I can't make any sense here. And he put his name above John F. Kennedy's name where it says John F. Kennedy center for the Performing Arts. He put Donald J. Trump and above John F. Kennedy's name. And this is the video right here. And it's absolutely, totally offensive.
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Tommy Christopher
Yeah, I was just thinking, you know, if this, if it's raised lettering, they could probably, when they take it down, they could sell those. How much do you think those, those MAGA guys are paying for that there?
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Jim Acosta
Exactly.
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Tommy Christopher
Sign on your like, I don't know, on your, like you're like, what, your Trump boat, your Trump Navy boat.
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Jim Acosta
You could do it. Something like, exactly. You could have something like that. I mean, or he'll, he'll take the name off and then put it up on the, the wall at Mar A Lago. I have no idea. But Tommy, we got a couple of other things to get to in addition to that breaking news. I, I, I am still stunned over what's been happening over at 60 Minutes. And I know you cover a lot of this media, these media stories and the media beat, but like, I'm really troubled by what Oliver Darcy was reporting last night. In his status newsletter, Bill Owens, the one time executive producer of 60 Minutes, described it as, quote, they're killing 60 Minutes, referring to the firings of their executive producer and some of the correspondents that they just fired this week, Sharon Alfonsi and Cecilia Vega, two terrific correspondents on that show. But I mean I, to me, this is a massive story. When 60 Minutes is in trouble, we're all in trouble. And, and Bill, I mean it wasn't just Bill Owens in this story. Steve Croft, the four, the longtime 60 Minutes correspondent, said, since I retired, I often wondered what would happen to 60 Minutes. He says, but I never expected it would be executed by the, of the United States. He says there is no smoking gun. This is Steve Croft talking to, to Oliver Darcy. He says, but Donald Trump's fingerprints and DNA are all over this, which I don't like to think about because it's kind of gross, but it's true.
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Tommy Christopher
Yeah, yeah. And it is the pro. This is the problem. We, we start to sound like we're crazy and deranged because everything is a, is a huge deal. But it is a huge deal. It's very, it's very chilling. I mean, you know, 60 Minutes is, you Know, it's the iron boat. It's, you know, it's for, for 60 minutes to go down is unfathomable. And it, you just, it's really tough to overstate it. I think the hero of that piece was whoever. And I know it's Friday, so I'm just gonna say whoever said good night and good luck, motherfuckers, nailed it. That was a great quote and a little too funny for this kind of, for, for this kind of a thing. But, yeah, it's, it's super sad. You know, I was thinking about it before I came on because, you know, this is just the latest in a long line. You know, the, the, the, the, the millions of dollars in lawsuits. Colbert, what they're trying to do to Kimmel. And the problem with, with journalism like 60 minutes journalism, like the real hard news, is it doesn't have many friends. The news always existed. It was like, it was like a spiritual, like, responsibility. And, you know, the networks hated that it didn't make money. You know, they rejoiced when they were, when they were allowed to have it, make money. And, you know, the only, the only friends journalism has is journalism. And, you know, these days, that sure as hell not enough. You know, people, People, they're not going to know what they're missing. You know, they're going to get their, you know, whatever. They're going to get their Lindell TV or their Facebook or. And they're not going to know what they're missing. And, you know, I, I love, I love independent media. I love, you know, the Jim Acostas, the Midas touches. But, you know, there's also something to be said for an item, an outlet like 60 minutes that is seen as authoritative, and that's something that they've been attacking, you know, and that's going, you know.
- [29:34]
Jim Acosta
No, you're right. And I will tell you, you know, having, you know, been at CBS News many, many years ago, and when I was at CBS News and this was a long time ago, it would cost, I think about $60,000 per, per story on 60 Minutes. And people don't understand. So independent journalism, yes, it's great. It's terrific that we can go out there and say it like it is and say, you know, speak our minds and not worry about censorship and so on and the FCC and all that. But the reason why 60 Minutes is so important is that it's an institution that has the tools, it has the financing to go out and do the kinds of stories that really, you can't find at almost any other news organization in the world. And that's what made it so special. That's what they, they built it into over, what, some 50 years, 60 years of being on the air. And now that is all being threatened because a lot of people are not going to want to watch 60 Minutes. Yes, there are still great correspondence there. But if there's a sense that they're just now evolving into a propaganda machine, yet another propaganda machine for Donald Trump. And, you know, I mean, Tommy, just the other day they interviewed Donald Trump for 60 Minutes and, you know, O' Donnell did a nice job and so on, but they edited the hell out of the piece, just like they edited the hell out of the Kamala Harris piece. I mean, you know, you edit pieces, you interview somebody for a long time, you don't put the whole thing on the air. Donald Trump sued over that. And that's sort of what got this whole thing started over at CBS when they started to bend the knee there. And I just, this, it really worries me that institution like 60 Minutes could be in this much trouble.
- [31:09]
Tommy Christopher
Yeah, you're absolutely right to be worried. And I wish I had something fun and hopeful to say about it.
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Jim Acosta
Yeah.
- [31:16]
Tommy Christopher
I will say this, that you're absolutely right, that the big difference, because, you know, like, I've always disputed the fact that certain journalists, like, who have a point of view that they are not authoritative in terms of like, like you, Jim Acosta, you speak facts and you, you know, like, if there's something that Trump does, you're going to give the full picture, you know, and that's the, you know, you tell the truth, telling truth isn't enough. Like you said, you know, you need, you need resources to be able to dig things up. And, you know, you need, you know, look, 60 Minutes and, you know, journalism in general had a, they had leverage over people in power in that the people expected them to have access, that people expected them to be answerable because, you know, 60 Minutes, the White House press corps, I know you and I always took our responsibility very seriously. It was, we were speaking for America. You know, we were their voice. And that's not, that's not how, that's not how it's going to be.
- [32:25]
Jim Acosta
Right. No, Trump is trying to destroy that. I mean, that, that is just the reality of the situation. And it's because he can't handle skeptical coverage. He can't handle critical coverage. It's been this way for a long time, ever since I started covering him 10 some odd years ago. You know, he, he just can't handle it. And this has been a long, sustained ideological project on the part of maga. People like Donald Trump, Brendan Carr, Stephen Miller, you know, the others in his cabal who, who, you know, worry about the media all the time and, and you know, try to pressure companies to get rid of journalists and hosts and so on. And Tommy, one thing that you were picking up on the other day, you wrote about this for Substack, is that my old friend Daniel Dale, who is the excellent fact checker over at cnn, he still writes his stories, but he's not on the air as much anymore. Is that what you were saying? I mean that, that's kind of startling because when I was there, he was on all the time.
- [33:20]
Tommy Christopher
Yeah, no, I, I was startled too, which is why I wrote the piece because, you know, I get, I get an email alert every time Daniel Dale's on me because his segments do so such great traffic. And I just noticed I hadn't had one in a while. I went and checked and he hasn't been on the air on CNN since March 12th. And wow, even worse than that is the March 12th hit that was about AI, like Iran propaganda and AI stuff. And it wasn't even about Trump. The last time he was on the air about Trump was over three months ago. And so they've just taken his fact checking off the air. And you know, at first I thought, well, you know, maybe he's just, I don't know, there's got to be like some kind of a good explanation, right? I was not prepared for CNN to be like, no, we're not going to talk to you about this. We're not going to make a statement about this. You know, I thought they'd say, oh, well, maybe he's on vacation or like working on a book, I don't know. And so yeah, it seems to me that, you know, Daniel Dale and I've been trying to get people since there's some people who dismiss this and want to hand wave it away. And I say no, he's a special kind of thorn from side, okay? Because the facts are the one thing that you really can't budge. And Daniel Dale, I think the other networks are fucking the dog on this because Daniel Dale has made himself synonymous with fact checking. And there's nobody else that's done Glenn Kessler for a while over at Washington Post. But he was terrible because he would always bend over backwards, say, well, there's this thing that Trump might have meant, you know, like he was not very good.
- [34:52]
Jim Acosta
I like Glenn by the way. But I know what you mean. But I think it was because he worked for the Washington Post that they did. They did this. And I assume that's part of the reason why that they had Flynn do it that way. But you're so right about Daniel Dale. He is a special person who does an amazing job fact checking Trump. And I will tell you, one of the things that he hates the most, Donald Trump hates is, is being called a liar or a racist. There are probably more things now that he hates being called more than those two things. Since I covered the White House, I think he said the other day he hates being called dumb, which is why he takes the cognitive test all the time, which doesn't make any sense. But, but he, he does not like being fact checked. He does not like being called liar, liar, pants on fire and that. That's what he does almost all the time. I mean, I used to say when I covered him during the first term, you would be better off counting the number of truths that he tells than the number of lies. Because the Washington Post, who you said under Glenn Kessler, they calculated was over 30,000 lies and half truths and so on during the first term. This time, this time around must be incalculable. It's. There's almost nothing he says is true all the time.
- [35:57]
Tommy Christopher
And I wish they, I mean, it is staggering. They stopped counting and they also have stopped sort of flagging repetitions of the same lie. It's like the bar has been so lowered for Trump, it's ridiculous. By the way, I also. You brought it up. I wanted to congratulate you for acing that cognitive test. Good job. And I really, I appreciated the hell out of the way you covered that.
- [36:17]
Jim Acosta
It was the best. It was, it did. Gangbusters. I, I don't know why everybody was so interested in it, but I'm so glad that they were because it was a hell of a lot of fun. But to illustrate the point that it is, it's kind of lunacy in and of itself that the President United States continues to brag about acing a cognitive test when the cognitive test involves what is the day of the week, what is the date, what is this animal that you're looking at? Can you draw the time on a clock? I just, I'm just saying, like, you know, a lot of stuff we covered in the third grade. You know what I mean? So these are, these are not things you should brag about.
- [36:54]
Aaron Brockovich
No.
- [36:54]
Tommy Christopher
And, you know, this is again, symptom number 400 of how the bar gets lowered for Trump. And, and also that I feel like reporters, you know, try to avoid conflict. You know, not one of them has ever said to him, that test is for, like, if you get hit in the head, that test is not enough. Like, what. I mean, even good report, you know, I admire the hell out of it. I don't want to name names. There's reporters who are smart enough to say and. And brave enough to get into it with him and say, listen, you keep acting like this is an IQ test. It is not. And I don't. When is somebody going to do that?
- [37:30]
Jim Acosta
I don't know. Somebody needs to do that. And you and I talk about this offline all the time. Our frustrations with some of the questions are being asked. There are some who are asking good questions, and I applaud them for that. But that's a basic one to challenge Donald Trump on. Like, if I was there, I would say, why do you keep describing this like an IQ test? It's not an IQ test. This is. I don't know what's going on here, but it seems to be an example of cognitive decline. When you brag about acing cognitive tests, that is not that. That is a sign of cognitive decline, it seems to me.
- [38:02]
Tommy Christopher
No, and, you know, I think I'm
- [38:03]
Jim Acosta
going to do it.
- [38:04]
Tommy Christopher
I wasn't going to name names. Look, I can understand why someone like Kaitlan Collins, who will go at Trump and has important things to press him on, you know, like she did with Scott Besson in that and the $250bill and the slush fund. But, like, this is a perfect question for Ed o' Keefe from cbs. Ed o' Keefe is the guy. I nominate you, Ed. Next time Trump starts talking about this cognitive bs, you're the one who. I need you to step up and say, that is not an IQ test. That is a test to see if you have Alzheimer's or got. Or hit your head too hard. That's what it's for.
- [38:39]
Jim Acosta
It's probably hitting his head too hard. That's my guess. But. All right. Well, Tommy, hey, man. Have a great weekend. Good catching up. Let's do it. Again, thanks for flagging the Daniel Dale thing, because I. I love that guy. And he. He does. He does incredible work over there. But good to see you, man.
- [38:54]
Tommy Christopher
Yep. Thanks for having me, Jim.
- [38:55]
Jim Acosta
All right, take care. And I will say, you know, this has been kind of a. There's a lot going on, so I don't want to. I don't want this to be Extrapolated out to mean that I'm describing everything under the sun and everything around the world on earth. I don't mean it in this way, but today I'm, I'm having a little bit of fun today. I'm having. I'm taking a little bit of joy in my job today. And I hope that's okay if I talk about taking a little joy in my job today. Because sometimes the memes are so delicious and hilarious and knee slapping, hee haw funny that I, I have to share them with the world. Of course, we've all seen the news that Donald Trump's big 250th dictator celebration that he wants to have in Washington D.C. which is really a celebration of himself instead of a celebration of America. They keep shrinking, struggling to get musical acts, and a bunch of musical acts have dropped out. Like the Commodores have dropped out. I think Martina McBride has dropped out. There's a whole bunch of people who have dropped out. It's been quite embarrassing. But the geniuses on the Internet, the Internet never loses. The Internet always wins, as the kids say. And there have been some hilarious takes and memes on all of this. And we should just show some of these memes and takes. Like for example, the band that went down with the Titanic just pulled out of Freedom250. They said they had a boat to catch. We didn't get a music, we didn't get a, a rim shot. What do they call that? But you know, sound effect for this. But anyway, Cars for Kids has pulled out of Freedom 250. There you go. I'm sorry, you couldn't get Cars for Kids. They're not available. Apparently they have another. They have a scheduling conflict. They're not going to be able to make it. And do we have the Rick Astley one? I thought there was a Rick. Maybe that means it's time to go. There was one other that was, was floating around out there. I'm just going to describe it because it, it would had me in stitches earlier today. And that is the Rick Astley one. It says that, you know, he pulled out because he just gave up. And there it is right there. Rick Astley is pulled out of the Freedom 250 concert series. He gave up. The guy who's saying, never going to give you up, never going to let you down. Anyway, he gave up. So there you go. You got me to sing today. I'm having, I'm, as I said, I'm taking some joy, I'm deriving some pleasure from my job Today. And I just hope, you know, because sometimes I come on here, I'm railing and I'm going off and I'm mad and everything else. Maybe it's because Donald Trump's effing name. I'll just say it. Fine. Donald Trump's fucking name may come down off of the Kennedy Center. Yes, the gong is coming for Donald Trump's name at the Kennedy center. And that means it's time for his name to go. And we hope and pray and we keep our fingers crossed and we rub our lucky rabbit's foot that, yes, indeed, Donald Trump's name will come off the Kennedy Center. And if and when that happens, you can be damn sure if I'm in town, I'm going to run my ass down there and go cover this, because we have been on this like white on rice. And that that name needs to come down. It will be like. It will be like the Berlin Wall coming down. For the kids out there who are too young to remember the. And this happened when I was a young man in high school, when the Berlin Wall came down, the wall dividing east and West Germany back in the day. And I remember Tom Brokaw being there and Dan Rather and all those anchors being there when the Wall came down. That was a seminal moment in American history. That was a moment I will never forget in American history. When Donald Trump's name comes off of the Kennedy center, it will be equally as momentous in my book in, in the life and times of yours truly, Jim Acosta. Donald Trump's name coming off the Kennedy center, like the Berlin Wall coming down, like the Saddam Hussein statue coming down, that kind of thing. So we're all waiting here with bated breath in the nation's capital. But in the meantime, I want to thank the lovely and amazing Aaron Brockovich for joining me today and my friend Tommy Christopher, who likes, who, like myself, acts like a cut up from time to time. And I do enjoy that as well. But in the meantime, want to thank all of you for supporting independent media. Anything that you can do to support independent media. Subscribe Like Share this episode if you're on substack and you're a paid subscriber, thank you so much. It means the world to us. It means that we can continue to do these kinds of shows. Earlier today, we did a combined show with Joy Reed and Katie Fang and Wajahad Ali. I started calling it the Crew. We may not call it that forever, but that's what we're calling it right now, or I'm calling it right now. My team helps put that on the air. So we can't. I can't just push all the buttons by myself. I just knocked into my microphone. See, I can't do these things by myself. So when you support us by subscribing and becoming a paid subscriber, and if you help us on YouTube, if you're watching on YouTube and you support us in that way, all of those things definitely help us in the world of independent media. And we thank you so much when you do that. But in the meantime, hope everybody has a great weekend. Still reporting from Washington, I'm Jim Acosta. I'll see you next time.