← The Jim Acosta Show
The Jim Acosta Show
FIRED FOR SPEAKING UP! Former Washington Post columnist Karen Attiah plus Steve Schmidt on Jimmy Kimmel.
00:44:10
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- [00:00]
A
Foreign.
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B
Welcome to the Jim Acosta Show. It is a Friday. Thank goodness we got here. It's been a hell of a week, folks. And just to add to it, I'm, I'm in transit. I'm, I'm reporting. That's exactly right. I'm reporting live from the ATL at the world's busiest airport. We're just in Dallas last night on my way back to D.C. but I wanted to work in some time to talk to my, my friend and somebody I admire for his truth telling very much, Steve Schmidt. Steve, great to see you, my man.
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A
Good to see you, Jim.
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B
There's a lot to talk about and I, you know, we, I, you tell me where you want to go first. I mean, I, I sort of think we should talk about the Kimmel thing because you and I have had these conversations about the state of our democracy over and over again, how we're, we're backsliding into some kind of authoritarian, light type of system in this country and maybe it'll go full blown autocrat, who knows? But your sense of the way this was handled. And the thing I can't get over, Steve, is the sheer cowardice over at ABC right now.
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A
It is appalling. And they have obliterated the credibility of their news division. It, it has been destroyed by the greed of the corporate executives. And that rock starts at the top with Bob Iger at Disney. I am in Los Angeles. We have some Save America movement activity happening this weekend. We launched liberty vans that will be staffed with chaplains, with camera crews, with veteran, with lawyers to document what ICE is doing in, in these communities. But we will put billboards up in LA with Bob Iger's picture, a yellow stripe under it and the word coward. It's a billboard town and everybody can reflect on it as they drive by it. I was personally scouting out locations for them earlier today and I don't usually scout out the locations for the billboards unless I have a particular animus that's, that's been built up. And so the cowardice is appalling. And there are broad misconceptions in this country born out of ignorance around what the First Amendment is and isn't. And so we live in an intolerant era when it comes to thought and speech. And there is tremendous intolerance on the political left. The universities. Dare you be confronted with a thought that is contrary to your own? The hysterics, the threats, the bullying, insanity. And that is not the country we grew up in.
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B
Right.
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A
And that came after we went to college and became adults. And that illiberalism is something I disdain, but that, but that has nothing to do with the First Amendment. What the First Amendment says is the government will take no actions to abridge speech. And the government took action to demand the removal of a president's critic. And yes, when the lawsuits and the investigations and the discovery proceeds, everything will be known because every record will be preserved. And what they will demonstrate is an arrogant FCC little Eichmann named Brandon Carr working to get these news executives under direct threat to capitulate to the feelings of Donald, Donald Trump and these people, you know, whatever Bob Iger thought his legacy would be, he'll be a villainous cretin in the movies of this time when a record is made about who stood tall and who collaborated, who capitulated. And the cowardice that you're, that you're seeing is, is extraordinary to behold is, it's historic. The chilling of speech is, is very real. The terror is, is very real. And I just urge people to rebel against it. Stand up, up, up.
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B
I couldn't agree with you more. And a couple of thoughts on that. One is, I mean, Brendan Carr, the chairman of the sec, I mean, he is acting as Trump's henchman. And he was basically saying the other day with Benny, whatever his name is, this ridiculous person on the right who has this terrible podcast. And, and he basically said, nice network you got there, abc. Be a shame if something happened to it. And he threatened, he said, he basically threatened to sick the affiliates on the network. And that is using the, the government, that is using the power of the executive branch to suppress speech. And, and the other thought I wanted to throw at you, Steve, is that the networks are doing the exact opposite thing right now. Instead of paying bribes to Trump, extortion payments to Trump, they should be taking him to court. Do what happened with me when they took my press pass away. Take him to court. Do to Trump what Trump has done to the country. Tie him up in the courts. And yes, the Supreme Court has been a colossal failure. But look what happened with the, the New York Times today, Steve. A federal judge down in, in Florida tossed out a $15 billion lawsuit that Trump filed. Ridiculous lawsuit. And, and to me, it, it goes to show you the courts can act as a little bit of an emergency break to stall what they're trying to do. Your thoughts?
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A
I, I, so first off, yeah, the, what, what's very important is for starting with Attorney General Bonda in California, is that California file suit in federal court to, to obstruct the mergers. And that every Democratic attorney general in every Democratic state files suit, shareholders file suit, consumers file suit. Save America movement is responding to this, is working on litigation strategy. The, the, the mergers must be obstructed secondarily. There, there has to be a, a plan to break up these media companies.
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B
Yes.
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A
That own hundreds of stations after they've bared their teeth, they've asserted themselves, like Sinclair, the public airwaves. The licensure is, as they say, owned by the public. But their abuse of it is the example for the disaggregation of power that's held in a few media companies that are, that are part of a fascist takeover, part of an abuse. And the record will show ultimately their collaboration with top government officials in this moment in time. So with, with each shattering of an institution or a norm, Democrats have to start to imagine the future. And the future isn't about returning to something that's gone. It's about what will the policies be to correct terrible abuses right from where they stand today, ultimately to what their apogee is before they, before they begin to recess.
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B
I, I totally agree with. And so on that point, Republicans might be able to get a CR passed without a single Democratic vote. It's possible. But if they need any Democratic votes, what would be your advice to the Democratic Party right now?
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A
Well, my advice is the same in March, is that Chuck Schumer is the architect of a political disaster that allowed for the seating of the Trump Cabinet. Really without opposition, without argument, without defiance. Under the chimera and delusion of that, we'll have bipartisanship with these people. He set in motion all of the conditions necessary for Donald to do all of the things that Donald did between March and today, and now he has the power again. And I honestly, I couldn't imagine, out of 340 million people, a worse person to have sitting across representing what I view as my side of the proposition across from these people than Chuck Schumer. It's appalling. It's disgraceful. Every Democratic senator is complicit in it. We're all held hostage. We're all held hostage by it. And, and what they have to do is they have to deliver the word now and they have to force Donald Trump to bend in, in his conduct. And they need to be prepared to leave the, leave the government shut down for as long as necessary. Listen.
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B
Yeah.
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A
You have Pentagon sources telling Courtney Kuby at NBC News that they're going to run a recruiting campaign aimed at target point under the martyrdom banner of. Of Charlie Kirk. The. The handling of his casket by uniformed US Military personnel is deeply inappropriate. The lowering of the flags are deeply inappropriate.
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B
And you've been saying they're forced.
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The forced grieving at Yankee Stadium and at NFL stadiums. The absurdism of Cardinal Dolan comparing Charlie Kirk to St. Paul. Charlie Kirk was an outrage pimp.
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B
And.
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And the only person you can really compare him to in his death. And. And this is an important point. I want to be crystal clear on it.
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B
Yeah.
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A
That whatever the reaction is to anybody's death, it comes after their presence in the world ceases to exist. And so the exploitation of Charlie Kirk's death is not a sin that Charlie Kirk carries. What Charlie Kirk stood for in life was division, a racial supremacy and arrogance. Charlie Kirk didn't debate, he provoked. He instigated. Lowest common denominator Internet contact in debate me, bro culture where he punched down, not up. And in every instance where somebody came armed and ready to debate Charlie Kirk on the substance and the facts, Charlie Kirk quickly quickly slid into polemic attacks against that person using culture war theatrics. And so this is a tremendous tragedy. And one of the things that's so tragic about it is Charlie Kirk never had a chance to grow up.
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B
Yes.
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A
Pull his head out of his ass on all of his juvenile annex. Right. And his life got stolen by him. But here's the deal with Charlie Kirk stood for in life. I feel very strongly should be condemned all through the rest of my life. And I deplore his assassination, but in the instant of his death, from the second, it was clear he was dead.
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B
Right.
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A
We have seen an abuse of power and an outbreak of insanity. The tactics of the mob, firings, capitulations, all of which are based on a lie, which is that if you oppose Trump and you oppose the things that Charlie Kirk stood for, then you are part of collective murder conspiracy that you like. The senator said, Marshall, the libs killed Charlie Kirk. No, the gunman killed Charlie Kirk.
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B
That's right. And. And just to put a. A pin in that for a second and hit the pause button, I mean, this, what you just said right there is far more harsh and. And I. And in many ways fair, I think, than what Jimmy Kimmel said and what he got fired for. I mean, Jimmy Kimmel basically made the observation sort of a. A more condensed version of. Of what you just said, that the right leapt out the opportunity to capitalize on his death. And I stated this. You just stated a few moments ago. We've all stated this. It's terribly tragic what happened to Charlie Kirk. I wish he were still alive for the exact reason that you just said. And I had a conversation with John Fugal saying about this last week. He said the exact same thing. It would have been better for him to live, obviously, to realize the errors of his ways and not to think things like, I, you know, you have to be worried if a black person gets into the cockpit of a, of a, an airliner and that sort of a thing. These are things that Charlie Kirk said, deplorable things that he said. And I think Charlie Kirk would want the American people to continue to debate his legacy. Now, I, I, and he himself said on Twitter last year, there's no such thing as hate speech in America. Legal standpoint. It is, it is. Hate speeches is legal speech as, as abhorrent as we might find it from time to time. His own hate speech was legal speech. And I just, you know, Steve, the thing that, that you caught me, and we talked about this on the phone the other day. There are historic parallels to political movements trying to capitalize on a tragedy like this.
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And the Nazis did this. The guy's name is Horst Wessel.
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B
Yeah.
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And Horst Wessel was a pimp who was murdered by a communist. He was a stormtrooper, and he wrote a marching song that became the German national anthem. And the Nazis staged elaborate rallies and, and rituals around this. The pogrom known as the Crystal Knock followed the assassination of a Nazi official in Paris. And so the language that you're hearing of the administration and targeting every transgender person in the country as being a terrorist, when you target the most vulnerable populations, people that hold the least amount of power. Right. And you blame them, you scapegoat them. What that makes you is a Nazi. And so we're hearing legitimate Nazi rhetoric from Stephen Miller and from others. And all of it, all of it is built on a foundation that if you oppose Donald Trump, you are part of a conspiracy that killed Charlie Kirk and you're a terrorist.
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B
Yeah.
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A
This is weapons grade fascism, and I reject it. The, the, the First Amendment, The First Amendment is not negotiable. And I, and I just want to say one other thing, Jim, is that, you know, I went to Auschwitz with Ellie Viso, and I spent a lot of time talking to Ali Vel, flying back and forth from Washington on to, to Poland and, and in Poland. And I'm pretty sure that one of the core messages of Holocaust remembrance is hateful thoughts lead to hateful words lead to hateful acts. And that's What Matthew Dowd was fired for at NBC.
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B
Yeah.
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A
And so we should appreciate that there is deep truth to the things that people are saying that they're being fired for. And to the point that Jimmy Kimmel was fired for it is indisputably true. This gunman came from a MAGA family with a gun fetish. And he was a closeted gay kid in a state with a massive gay kid suicide problem. Because gay kids have a particularly hard time in Utah. And Spencer Cox and all the attention he's gotten has offered a version of Utah that's as delusional as the MAGA take on the collective assassination. I mean, if you want to win a trivia contest, you say, what's the number of plastic surgery state in the country? It's Utah.
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B
Wow. Yeah.
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A
Right. Utah. Right. Is a state where there's a lot of guns. But I know you have a gun fetish if you have a lot of pictures with your guns.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Because responsible gun owners don't take pictures with their guns.
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B
Yes.
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And fetishize them. This was a MAGA family that fetishized guns. A 22 year old murdered Charlie Kirk. And that act of murder. Right. Is being prosecuted by the people in Utah against the murderer for taking that life.
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B
I, I, I could not agree with you more. And what is so tragic about this is that we are just not getting to the bottom of what causes so many of these mass shootings. These broken kids that we have in this country who are being brought up in this toxic culture and they're exposed to a society that is drowning in guns, drowning in high powered firearms. And it is a horrendous mix that is just going to continue to keep biting us in the ass in this country. Steve, I have to ask your apology in advance. I'm going to try to bring on Karen Atia, who is, who was pushed out of the Washington Post. But let's, Is she still here? Let's see here. I think she's still here.
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A
If we can.
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I think she's still here. Let's see, there's Karen right there. Hey, Karen, how are you? Great to see you.
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C
Hi. Good to see you.
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B
Hey, thank you so much for jumping on. I just had the great Steve Schmidt on and don't know if you guys know each other, but it sounds like you're both now warriors for the First Amendment here in the, in the days and weeks and months and years to come.
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C
Yeah, well, not, this is not something I had on my bingo card, as the kids say.
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B
Well, Steve, thanks so much for Coming on, man. Really got it.
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A
Good to see you, Jim. Good to see you, Karen. Stay strong.
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C
Thank you so much.
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B
Strong. Steve, thank you. Appreciate your time. Karen, great to see you. I guess first of all, for, for the folks out there, for the few people out there who don't entirely understand what happened to you over at the Washington Post. First of all, thanks for coming on. I really appreciate it. I've always been a big fan of yours. I've always appreciated what you bring, what you brought to the Washington Post. I grew up in the D.C. area and I mean, you know, one of the problems that we have with newspapers and media in this country is we just don't have enough diverse viewpoints. And the Washington Post had that in you and I. And, and I just wonder if you could lay out your thoughts on where you are right now and maybe explain a little bit what, what happened because you were pushed out essentially for what you said about Charlie Kirk.
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C
Yeah. And. Well, thank you so much. You actually, I think you were actually the first one to reach out.
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A
It's.
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B
Wow.
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C
It. Actually, I'm still processing, but it's actually been, I have not been able to land a one on one on a major network.
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B
No.
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C
I've. You're the first sub stack 1 I went on with Don Lemon. You guys have been the only ones seemingly brave enough to have me on. So I, I also just want to say thank you. You don't, you have no idea how much this means to me. And like, I think it's just sadly a sign of the times for mainstream media, not just in this moment and the culture of fear, I think, but also where, where the truth tellers are finding themselves having to go. But yeah, I can, you know, I can lay out, you know, what, what I think, you know, happened. And for those of maybe your listeners and followers who may not know me, I have had been at the Washington Post for 11 years. I started off as a fresh faced digital producer in the opinion section under the late fresh Fred Hyatt. So I started off actually, actually my entire job at first was helping to build the social media accounts of the Post opinion section. So I was brought on as a digital social media whiz. I was brought on to, to help the established columnists be better at their social media because that was, I was pretty good at Twitter and, and I was good at expressing myself in Twitter and that's how, that's how they found me and brought me into the. So to the extent that I actually helped craft, I think if I remember correctly, I was helping to craft some early versions of a social media like guidelines for the opinion section. So, yeah, many people, you know, then I moved to being able to be the founding global opinions editor. So to be able to commission and hire writers from around the world to same thing, you know, to express themselves. As you said, we needed more diversity, and that was clear. And sure, you know, I brought some, but I was just only one person. And we realized, okay, we needed to bring many more people, not just domestically, but from around the world to make our pages as broad and as diverse and as global as possible. So that was. That was my, like next step and founded that. And so many people may know me then for one of my global opinion writers who was Jamal Khashupji.
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B
Yes.
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C
The Saudi journalists were hired, worked with for a year until he was brutally murdered in 2018 by the Saudi regime. And not just murdered, but dismembered. And to this day, we still have don't know where his body is.
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B
Honestly, the Saudis have not been held accountable for that.
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C
By the way, Saudis have not been held accountable for that at all. So I'm building all this up and then I got to become a columnist in 2021. So, yeah, that's been my path. I've been known to. Yeah, I care so much about protecting people's rights to speak, even when I don't agree with them. As an editor, that's my job. But my job is still to try to encourage robust debate, especially about debate that is uncomfortable. And this is actually something that Bezos himself, when he met with us, met with me, came to the Washington Post and said, I want you guys to be provocative. I want you guys to be the exact. I want you guys to be swashbucklers.
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B
Interesting.
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C
And here we are today.
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B
What happened to the swash? What happened to the buckle? Jeff Bezos, he just got in line and I'll say it, cowtowed with the rest of them. Maybe it's too fresh for you and you can't say, but I'll say it. And anyway, you're. But please continue.
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C
It's not the same. It's not the same post. I'm still mourning what, what, what it was, which was a place as imperfect still as. As the opinion section was under Fred Hyatt. Like, it was a place where we cared about human rights. Like we cared about using our platform, our power to highlight things and people that were uncomfortable or just to highlight the marginalized. Marginalized voices. Marginalized, like perspectives. Things that, like people just don't want to hear. And that's how I think about diversity is about sometimes it means about viewpoints that people would rather keep quiet and throw under the rug. Yeah. So let's fast forward to. Wow. A little over a week ago and you know, in the aftermath of the Charlie Kirk shooting, you know, me as a, as a reporter, as a former reporter and as a now columnist, or what's called as a columnist, I know I kick into a certain professional drive. Right. When you have breaking news, a high emotional event, a highly violent event, a crime, a horrible murder, you know, your instinct is to like, okay, wait till the facts. We don't have all the facts. There's often a lot of misinformation, even official sources. So refrain from speculating, refrain from, you know, anything like that. So for me, that day I was seeing the murder. Anyone can go back to my Blue sky post. They're all still up there. It's, you know, I expressed like shock, actually.
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B
Yes, me too.
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C
I was shocked. And that this was horrible and without, you know, I was seeing these horrible images of, of, of the actual shooting itself. That rocked me, actually. But my initial commentary for that reason to exercise restraint was not about Kirk himself. My, my first thought was about God, America, like guns. Again, the rhetoric, the empty rhetoric that we have, like, you know, thoughts and prayers and prayers.
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B
Yeah.
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C
Political violence has no place here. This is not who we are, that sort of thing. I said it explicitly. Like, we keep telling ourselves these myths and it's just not true. When you. Look, I, I grew up in Dallas. Dallas. One of the Kennedy assassination.
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B
I was just in Dallas. Absolutely.
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C
It loomed. The political violence is a, is part of the fabric of this country. I'm not saying it should have a place.
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B
It's our history.
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C
It's the history. And my posts were just about that and about that. We have this rhetoric, these empty cliches, and we still do nothing. So. And of course, was it a response not just to the Charlie Kirk shooting, but also we had the shooting of children in Colorado that day. I was responding in my mind to both of these things.
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B
Totally overlooked.
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C
Yep, completely. No one's talking about this.
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B
Nobody's talking about that. And it was a white nationalist gunman.
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C
Correct.
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B
Shooter. Yes.
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C
So no one was talking about that. And I, I just had a post that said, you know, America is sick. America is sick. It, it's. We're a country that worships violence while claiming to have these cliches. And, and then specifically, you know, again, as a journalist and as someone who's my Task is to write about race. You know, I said that it's especially for white men who commit violence, who espouse hatred that we have this social, cultural reflex to coddle them, to shrug and move on, to sort of do the same old, you know, like a bit of compassion for them. Right. And I was just solely noting that. And then, and then I said the only reference I made to Kirk was a characterization of his comments on black women. Because I think we were already seeing the demands of excessive performative mo. Morning. Right.
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B
Yeah.
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C
And. And I just, you know, again, in the. In the. In the service of exercising balance, I said I can, I can and I do condemn violence without going into excessive mourning or emotionality about this person who has such a, to put it mildly, controversial backgrounds. I'm putting it very mildly, obviously.
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B
So I put that horribly unkind things about prominent black women. I mean, let's just be very straightforward.
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C
Prominent and normal black women.
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B
He called, that's right.
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C
Black women moronic. If I have a moronic black woman.
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B
On the phone I heard, yes.
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C
You know, talking about prowling black men wanting to attack. So he said. Yeah, he said all sorts of anti black things, but. So I said that on Blue sky. And no response. No, I mean, not no response. I got, you know, retweets and shares, but no backlash. No backlash. So, you know, I was just like, that's. I went about my day and went into the next day when I was training martial arts and I finished training and I see a call from a Washington Post number and I missed it. I couldn't pick it up. And then literally a minute later, Jim, email comes the subject line, notice of termination.
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B
Wow. Unreal. So they did the courtesy call, which didn't go through, and then they didn't even wait to talk to you. They just sent you that email. Unreal. Didn't even want to have a conversation about it. After all your years there.
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C
For all my years there. After. After building an entire section to, you know, the successful section, you know, putting my career and safety on the line to defense, press freedom to defend Jamal. And I was celebrated for it. You know, one I remember won the Post all sorts of awards for that.
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B
Yeah, I remember reposting your work.
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C
Yeah, I remember. You did.
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B
So happy that somebody just was trying to give a damn about Jamal Khashoggi. And that was when the Washington Post really was shining. Exactly during that horrible moment. I know. And it's my hometown newspaper. I grew up in Fairfax County, Virginia. So we got it on the doorstep every morning My mom, who worked in restaurants still read it cover to cover every day. And I grew up with a deep affection for the Washington Post. And it's absolutely terrible what's happened to that newspaper, but it's happening across the board with our media now, our corporate media, they've just completely failed us. The Jimmy Kimmel case is just the latest example. And what, what's next for you, Karen?
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C
Well, I am, I, I, I definitely still thinking about it. Like I said, you're you, you being the first to invite me on. I mean, I definitely, I hope to see my, I hope to be free now, I guess.
- [33:17]
B
Come on substack. Come on YouTube.
- [33:19]
C
Yeah, I've got substack, you know, and I, I, I have some, a few announcements to come, but honestly, I think what I'd hope. Oh, and I also will be teaching, you know, I'm teaching a class on race, media and international affairs. So again, clearly Washington Post, Columbia. These institutions are so afraid of teaching our history about race and media. I will be teaching that on October so people can go to resistanceummerschool.com there's still some time to sign up and so they can learn from me, from my, my lectures. So, yeah, Jim, I guess I'm in my rogue radical professor era.
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B
You need more of them right now. Now more than ever.
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C
Yeah, so. And I hope to see a lot more people. You'll see a lot more of me on Substack for sure. So I'm happy to join that community. You guys have been so supportive and folks can watch out. I will be posting the exact reasons that the Washington Post fired me because there's a lot of misinformation. This has forced me to post my own termination letter. But I'm about to do it so that people can see what that is. Actually, you know, unless you want me to give you a preview.
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B
If you want to give us a preview, go ahead.
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C
Let's just say again, I was just doing my job. Right. They claimed that I've disparaged on the basis of disparage. Kirk. On the basis of race. Because of my post singling out white men. So basically they're accusing me of being racist is how I'm interpreting it. Racist against white men. When I said specifically I was talking about violent white men. But that's the, that's the kind of, that's the precedent that they're setting with this, that are we in a country where we can't talk about. Well, to describe just as the doj, as the FBI has when it, when we talk about sort of domestic anti government, domestic terror, mass shootings. It sadly has been a certain demographic. Now it's, they're saying that I can't say that.
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B
Yeah, well, and I, to me, I think it was a natural reaction for people to start questioning what Charlie Kirk had said while he was alive because of the way he was being lionized and held up as this champion for free speech and so on, which I just think misses the mark. I mean, he, he seemed to believe in a back and forth, I suppose, from time to time, but he also liked to grift off of, you know, outrageous, you know, clicky stuff as well. And, and, you know, he was a young man who I think was deeply misled by people like Trump and the people in that, in that inner circle to the point that I think he became this person who just espoused all sorts of ugly viewpoints. And I think it's only natural to expect that people are going to use their First Amendment rights to say, hey, wait a minute, that's not, you know, you guys are making Charlie Kirk out to be this over here. And actually, guys, he's a little bit of this over there. And it seems to me that it's only natural that people are going to pour out their hearts and say what they thought. I mean, this was somebody who was being lionized after what he said about black women, prominent black women, black pilots, I mean, you name it. He was saying all sorts of things about Latinos, I mean, you know, trans. I mean, everything under the sun. Yeah, and, and, and, and there are a lot of folks on the right who didn't like what he had to say after he got behind Trump on, on Jeffrey Epstein. So, I mean, there was a lot to criticize. And Charlie Kirk, apparently, I mean, I, I'm not a big Charlie Kirk, you know, buff here or anything like that. I'm not hugely familiar with his work. I just saw him as like somebody on the right who said a lot of crazy things. But he, I mean, to my, my understanding is that he put out there his belief that people ought to have a free exchange of ideas. Right, which is exactly what you were doing.
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C
Yes, exactly. I don't think Charlie Kirk would have wanted me to be fired technically, but.
- [37:34]
B
I think that's, I think that's correct.
- [37:35]
C
But we've seen, we've seen how the right especially, I mean, I think the New York Times has maybe on their Instagram, I saw something about how years ago, you know, the right was saying everyone has the right to free speech. Because they. They felt that they weren't in power. And now that they're in power, it's like, lock them up. Take away their jobs. Destroy.
- [37:56]
B
This is hate speech.
- [37:57]
C
Yeah, yeah. So this is like, you know, and I think Kirk, if it wasn't so dangerous, I guess, to talk about Kirk, it's actually fascinating because he also was a religious figure. Huge Christianity, as. There's so many people who have no idea what he said about black people. No idea what he said about marginalized communities. Because he was able to convince people because he was. He's passionate about. About Christ and about living a Christian life. And I know people who had no idea that he said these things and they were like, oh, I just thought he was a Christian leader. So I think there's a lot that we have missed. I think a lot that the corporate media has missed about sort of. He was so many different things to different people, which is why it's so difficult to really pin him down. And that's precisely because the Internet keeps us siloed. Yeah.
- [38:51]
B
Or where people are able to choose your own adventure. People.
- [38:54]
C
Yeah.
- [38:55]
B
Do that with. With everything now.
- [38:57]
C
With. Correct. So it's. If it wasn't. If it wasn't for the fact that I got fired for this, this is like a. A like perfect column subject that I would be there. You go to the Washington Post. I guess I just got to put it on substack now. But, you know, it's. It's.
- [39:14]
B
And the people will come.
- [39:15]
C
I hope so. I hope people. I. I've gotten so much support from everyone. Even, you know, even the last piece, the last political piece I was allowed to write as the last black columnist. So now Washington D.C. has no black staff columnists at the paper. You know, Unreal. Yeah. They did not care about that. I was the last staffer. The last political piece that I wrote that they allowed me to write, I guess was a piece criticizing Barack Obama. Actually, it was a piece criticizing people, though. Where's Obama? He should speak and save us. I was like, you know, and my piece was just saying, hey, guys, like, let's actually look at his record. We. And so I did that and his people reached out and they were like, yeah, we like your headline. That's funny. Emotional support President. That's funny. Haha. They're like, but we have issues with this point. This point, this point. And I was like, okay, I disagree. But okay. But it was simple. They're like, keep in touch.
- [40:23]
B
And that's very cool.
- [40:25]
C
And now here he is in support of Me, even though I criticize, you know, like, and I'm not one to stand celebrities or politicians, but it just is a reminder of how things used to be, should be, instead of now. People are, it's almost like we have this, what's the word? Mature, lest rules where you're not allowed to criticize the Kings and their, you know, and, and Charlie Kirk is being made into, you know, almost a Jesus. Right?
- [40:56]
B
Yeah.
- [40:57]
C
So anyway, it's just, it's just a, it's been such a whirlwind. Obviously there's a lot for me to, to process with all this, but I will say again to thank you and the actual brave ones, the actual journalists who are on independent media and, and still doing their thing, you know, after. I guess we have a club now, huh?
- [41:16]
B
Yeah, we do. I think we do. And, and it's okay. And I can't wait to see what you have to write. As they say, write what you know. And you know, a lot now after this, this last week. But Karen and Tia, it's great to catch up with you. Let's keep doing this.
- [41:29]
C
Yeah.
- [41:30]
B
Let me know when you want to come on and talk about your latest piece, wherever you're publishing it. But all the best to you.
- [41:36]
C
Thank you.
- [41:36]
B
Really appreciate your bravery, and I think a lot of people who are watching do as well. Thank you so much.
- [41:42]
C
Thank you, James. I appreciate it.
- [41:43]
B
All right, good to see you. That's Karen Atia, formerly of the Washington Post, hopefully soon of Substack and of independent media. And folks, I'm just going to make this very quick because I got another flight to catch, but independent media is where it's at. It's where it's at right now, folks, honestly, where else can you find voices like Karen's who, who has been through a pretty major event in her life, a pretty big test and challenge in her life. And there was a viewer earlier who chimed in with a comment. We see the comments that maybe this is a blessing in disguise for Karen and I. I think it is. I think it's a blessing in disguise for a lot of people who go through this sort of thing. It was a blessing in disguise for me to join this world of independent media. I, I, I get to tell it like it is. As I was telling a group in Dallas. I used to tell both sides, get to tell my side and, and, and damn it, I like it. But my thanks to Karen. Really appreciate her bravery and what she has done. My thanks to Steve Schmidt as well for joining me, and thanks to all of you for watching. I'm just going to let Karen's words sit there as perhaps the final thought of this week. Free speech matters. Our First Amendment matters. Free expression matters. So make sure you do some of that this weekend as well. Thanks, everybody, for watching. Still reporting today from Atlanta, I'm Jim Acosta. I'll see you next time.