← The Jim Acosta Show
The Jim Acosta Show
Former Capitol police officer Harry Dunn, Skye Perryman with Democracy Forward which is suing to obtain Epstein Files documents, and historian Julian Zelizer
01:03:31
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- [00:00]
Jim Acosta
Okay, well, welcome to the Jim Acosta Show. It's another day that ends in y in the Trump cover up of Epstein gate. Perhaps he should send the National Guard to find the Epstein files instead of into Washington D.C. last night, yours truly snapped a few pics of the Guard members down on the National Mall. They were enjoying a lovely summer evening in Washington. Little warm, but otherwise extremely safe on the National Mall. Other social media videos have captured federal agents with the FBI and the DEA walking around Georgetown. Earth to the White House. The crime is not down on the Mall and in Georgetown. But of course, this isn't about helping the people of Washington D.C. it's about Trump's creeping authoritarianism. But we are not taking the bait. We are here to find out what happened to the Epstein file. So joining me on the program is Sky Pearman, who leads Democracy Forward, a pro democracy group that is suing the Trump administration for records related to the Epstein case. And sky, it's great to see you. Thanks for what you do. And this is, this is just right on the money for me today because Trump is trying everything he's throwing everything at. I mean, today he was talking about the Kennedy honors and it's all about hiding the ball. It's all about hiding the Epstein files. Tell us about this lawsuit and why it's so important.
- [01:22]
Sky Pearman
Thank you for having me on. Our lawsuit is focused on the COVID up. We are seeking communications between the White House, between the White House Press Office and the Department of Justice and the FBI. And you might say, well, there shouldn't be communications between the White House and the Department of Justice and the FBI. The DOJ and the FBI are supposed to be independent agencies that are operating with some level of independence and obligation to the American people. But this is unfortunately an administration that has politicized those institutions. And we have sought records to understand what the communications are, what are they hiding, what type of PR statement stunned are they trying to pull off here? And we sought the communications. The government did not timely respond. And so we filed our lawsuit on Friday, yesterday or earlier this week, we moved, we filed a motion for summary judgment to move very quickly to have the lawsuit to ask the court to hear a question around expedited processing. And the court just today, right as I was getting on, right as I was getting on this podcast issued in order to set the schedule for the case, which is really pretty, a quick, quick turnaround there. And we will be briefing this in early September. So, so we'll keep you informed. But we really are, we think this is A good way to help the American people understand what's going on.
- [02:48]
Jim Acosta
Okay, so that's great. So this is already getting scheduled. I appreciate the update on all of this. And when we talk about documents related to, you know, the conversations going on between the White House and the. And the Justice Department. I was saying this very early on when that July 7th memo came out that tried to sweep the whole thing under the rug. My question at the time was, and this is the White House reporter on me, is, were there conversations between the White House and the Justice Department that produced that memo? If so, that is not ordinary. That is extraordinary. That is strange and unusual. But your thoughts is that kind of at the.
- [03:24]
Sky Pearman
Yeah. No, it's not ordinary. The public has the right to know. It wouldn't be subject to any types of the privileges that would enable the government to keep it back. We want to know. We wanna see drafts, we wanna see notes, we wanna see communications and correspondence. And by the way, when you file these requests, the government has the ability to say, we've done a search and we don't have any of those documents. I mean, you know this. Right. They have that ability. They have not done that here. They've certainly not done it here yet, which is one of the reasons we went into court, to sort of continue to force the transparency here. So we have a great team on this at Democracy Forward, and like I said, we' you know, a schedule in the case for some of these early briefings. So this is just one tool that the American people have to require transparency because this administration is dragging their feet and they're trying to hide something.
- [04:17]
Jim Acosta
Yes. I mean, I'm reading from your lawsuit. To shed light on the Trump administration's handling of the Epstein matter, Democracy Forward submitted several FOIA requests to the DOJ and FBI seeking senior administration officials communications regarding the Epstein matter, including those regarding correspondence between Trump and Epstein, as well as records concerning agency review of the Epstein matter. So what we really want to do is sort of get our hands into what Donald Trump has been up to, what senior officials in the White House have been up to, People like Cash Patel, Pam Bondi over at the Justice. How have they handled. I mean, because that's going to reveal so much and it's going to tell us maybe what's going on here.
- [04:56]
Sky Pearman
Yeah, it's the president that's been obsessed with the actual files. I mean, he's the one that ran and created conspiracy theories with people about what are in the files. I mean, we want to know why, if that is his Big issue. And if he promised his supporters and the American people that he was going to be more transparent, why have we seen nothing? And, of course, this case comes, as we saw Judge Engelmeier in another case in New York this week say this is an illusion of transparency, this whole fight that they're trying to do over grand jury testimony. There's a lot of ways to be transparent here that the administration is failing to do. Sorry, my phone just flipped. So we're like, in real time here. But that's okay. It shows that we're just in real time. So, anyway, that's what this case is about and what we want your listeners to know. I think they do. But people, when they look at the courts, they may look at the Supreme Court and say, like, you know, is this really gonna do anything for us? And at Democracy Forward, we've been in court every single day since almost inauguration. We've been winning court orders that are protecting people, and we've been using the courts with the laws like the Freedom of Information act to force transparency. So this is a tool we have, and we need to be using these tools.
- [06:12]
Jim Acosta
And can they just scoff, you know, at these FOIA requests? Can they drag their feet? What if they do that? I suppose then, I mean, we say, aha, you're dragging your feet. Is there much that can be done in terms of forcing them, Forcing their hand to comply? If the judge in this case that's handling your case says, okay, hand these documents over?
- [06:34]
Sky Pearman
Absolutely. I mean, that's why we have to, unfortunately, resort to court. We shouldn't have to do that. They should just see this and say, okay, we're going to process it. They didn't. And so we're now in court. But that's exactly why we're going to court, because the courts do have the ability to force this type of transparency. And you have a judge already issuing a schedule in the case. So that's this case. But we've also been managing. And I know you want to talk about kind of the other things that the administration's been doing this week to distract from all of this. Right. To distract from this continued controversy around the Epstein files.
- [07:10]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, well, and I saw that you made a comment, I believe, to. Was it the New York Times or the Washington Post about this, that Trump is overreaching, engaging in draconian tactics that do not make anyone safer and threaten the civil liberties and freedom of the American people. Let's talk about deploying the national guard into Washington, D.C. you know, we were seeing Video, I mean, I saw some, some social media video that showed, I don't know who these federal agents were, but they were questioning some man sitting on his doorstep and asking, you know, what are you doing in here? And he's, the guy is saying, why are you here? This is my house. I'm sitting on my doorstep. And so I, you know, my concern is, is that, you know, Trump has just decided that he is going to, you know, basically push the envelope in an authoritarian way, use Washington D.C. as a test case and see how far he can push this.
- [08:02]
Sky Pearman
Well, look, I mean, we've already seen he tried with la. He's doing dc, he's, you know, showing his playbook. That's the, in some ways it's concerning, incredibly, but it's also a playbook. And to your point about desperation, these are the kinds of things we thought the administration would probably take out of their playbook in year four or something. Right. And they're already having to use these desperate tactics. The President really doesn't have a lot of the authority he's claiming. There is an ability, of course, in an emergency, we don't believe he's shown an emergency, but in an emergency to have some control for about 30 days. But after that, the law is very clear. It's really up to Congress. And, you know, it's not the President that gets to make a lot of these calls. And of course, D.C. does have its own rights too. And so we're monitoring the situation. So many legal organizations and pro democracy organizations are doing so great. Organizations like Free DC are planning, you know, lots of awareness raising around the District. We really want to make sure people understand that what the President's saying about Washington D.C. in the same way what they were saying about Los Angeles is not accurate. And we're going to keep following this and hold them accountable as we can.
- [09:22]
Julian Zelizer
Right.
- [09:22]
Jim Acosta
I mean, the other issue here is I noted, you know, I mean, Muriel Bowser, the mayor of Washington D.C. she did describe this as authoritarian and she did say this is not the way you treat the American people by, you know, sending in the military. But I do Wonder Whether Washington D.C. kind of has to just sort of take it at this point and they seem to be behaving in that fashion. That's not representative government. When the mayor of Washington D.C. just has to, you know, just accept what the President of the United States is doing and that pro democracy groups like yours have to jump in, into that void. It says to me that people in Washington D.C. are subject to the whims of a out of control president who's acting like a dictator.
- [10:09]
Sky Pearman
You look, I mean, certainly this is so far from representative government. And that's been. And that is 100% correct. I also think many people are seeing this for what it is. It's performative. Is it performative? Is it an act of desperation? Is it another made for TV moment? I mean, there have been reports that, you know, the President looks out and says, you know, I don't see enough officials around the White House perimeter. I mean, is this a made for TV moment which this President likes to create, or what is the overall strategy here? I think that's what people on the ground are really assessing. There's a little bit of a keep calm and carry on mentality and then there's a little, then there's a rise up, you know, a rise up and defend your rights mentality. I think there's both of those going on, which are both, you know, in some ways appropriate. And we're gonna support the, you know, the folks that live in Washington, D.C. the communities in D.C. it's a vibrant city, rich history, and we're gonna be supporting it in all the ways we can and supporting our democracy and holding this administration accountable.
- [11:13]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, no, you're absolutely right. And I saw somebody make the comment, let's not get into a back and forth with Trump over whether the detail DC crime statistics are real. The DC Crime statistics are the DC crime statistics. He can say that they're not real, but let's not get into a back and forth with him about that because it's beside the point. It is a bullshit move to send in the national guard and the DEA and the FBI into Washington D.C. when violent crime is down 26%. It's just, that's just the way it is, I'm sure.
- [11:41]
Sky Pearman
And there's no action from Congress. So I think, you know, that's what you're gonna see people pushing for. That's what you're gonna see. We're really encouraged by the, you know, residents of the District that have up and saying, this is not what he's saying isn't true. People are posting pictures of the way the 14th street looks. There's no emergency there. And so I think that this is. But it's waking people up that we are in a crisis in this country. This isn't a crisis. That's a talking point. It's not a fundraising gimmick. I mean, we have a president that doesn't want to govern for people and that doesn't want to be held accountable for people. So we see all these things as related to.
- [12:18]
Jim Acosta
Well, and somebody just made the comment, even if crime wasn't down, that's not a reason to bring in the National Guard. I mean, are they going to put a SWAT team outside dip. I mean, that, you know, it just gets ludicrous. The other thing, though, getting back to Epstein, another document trail that is intriguing to me is what took place between Todd Blanche and Ghislaine Maxwell.
- [12:38]
Sky Pearman
Yes.
- [12:39]
Jim Acosta
Who made the decision to send Todd Blanche down to speak with her. I mean, his former attorney, you know, and who is actually basically acting as his attorney. A de facto personal attorney fixer.
- [12:50]
Sky Pearman
Yes.
- [12:50]
Jim Acosta
Who is a high level Justice Department official. We'll put that to the side. The ludicrousness behind that. But what is the document trail? What is the paper trail leading up to him being deployed down to Florida, meeting with her, and then her being transferred to a minimum security prison in Texas that should have never taken place? It seems to be Trump's thumbs. Have to be.
- [13:12]
Sky Pearman
Well, this is all, I mean, this is all what we believe we're going to be able. And it's a fight on all fronts. You know, we need people continuing to apply pressure. Members of Congress are applying pressure. We are going to be in forts every day, filing these requests, pushing our cases aggressively. So, you know, we're with you. And I do want to just say on the safety pieces just going back, because some of this is interesting, right. The Epstein files. Right. This is a major criminal enterprise. You have individuals that were, including Maxwell, responsible for just unthinkable acts that the administration doesn't even seem concerned about anymore. We can see the same thing when we think about community safety. Okay. In Washington, D.C. he lies about sort of what the realities are in Washington. But my team at Democracy Forward has been in court over and over again to have to defend community program grants that are helping communities stay safe, that are supporting local law enforcement. We're winning those cases, by the way. We're getting that money back to communities. But it just really shows you that this administration is about seeking power, wielding power, and doesn't there's not any kind of, you know, sense of an obligation to people. You know, whether you look at the handling of Epstein DC or other things as well.
- [14:31]
Jim Acosta
No, you're right. There's a through line in all of this. And you were mentioning, you know, the other folks are working on this. I mean, Congressman Thomas Massie of Kentucky, a Republican, tweeted that on September 3, he and Ro Khanna will be holding a press conference at the Capitol, joined by survivors of Epstein and Maxwell's abuse, several of whom he says will be speaking out for the first time. The survivors deserve justice and Americans deserve transparency. Sky, I really think that your efforts could help blow this thing wide open because if you can somehow produce the FOIA documents through FOIA that indicate what, you know, was Trump involved in this? Was it Stephen Miller? Who was it? Was it the chief, you know, the chief of staff? Who was it that was telling the Justice Department, we want you to put this out to sweep this thing under the rug. That could, that could spark some, some oversight committee interest, you know what I mean? I think that, yeah, this could, this could mushroom.
- [15:29]
Sky Pearman
It's always the COVID up, right? It's always the COVID up that's worse. We know that, we've seen it, it's happening here. And I think that we're onto something with how we're going to be able to get these, you know, to get these documents.
- [15:43]
Jim Acosta
Excellent. Well, you know, I really appreciate everything that you've done and all of this. Sky, keep us posted on all this. And for the folks who are just joining us because we see the live number going up throughout the program, Sky's group, Democracy Forward, had just heard back from the judge, what, just a few moments before we got started, just right.
- [16:02]
Sky Pearman
Before we got on.
- [16:03]
Harry Dunn
Right.
- [16:03]
Jim Acosta
They've scheduled your case to hear this, this lawsuit, this request to get at the documents that were basically at the heart of this Justice Department memo that got this whole thing started back on July 7th. So very important documents.
- [16:17]
Sky Pearman
Absolutely. And folks can follow along@democracy4.org or follow us on social media or we'll come back and talk to you, Jim, as we get, you know, as we get more information.
- [16:25]
Jim Acosta
Let's do it. Okay, sounds good. Thanks, guy. I really appreciate it.
- [16:29]
Sky Pearman
Thank you.
- [16:30]
Jim Acosta
All right, that's Sky Perryman over at Democracy Ford. I want to quickly go to Julian, historian Julian Zelizer, because, listen, I mean, what's happening right now, it needs sort of a 30,000 foot view, perspective and all of this. And I'm hoping to link up with Harry Dunn closer to the end of the program. Harry and I were just chatting about this, too, but there's Julian right there. Julian, great to see you as always. It's been a little while. Hope you've been enjoying the summer. It's been a summer of Jeffrey Epstein, though. I mean, for Donald Trump, you know the presidency all too well. Being a historian over at Princeton. You also write the Longview and you have a new piece on the alternative facts presidency, which is very apt this week, and I do want to unpack that. But I do think, as I was discussing with Sky a few moments ago, you know, Trump's trying to throw every distraction at us that he can to get us off the. The scent of the Epstein files. But, you know, presidencies all too well. Summers, particularly August, July, when the news starts to slow down, this is when scandals can crop up and bite a president of the United States right on the keister. And that's exactly what has taken place here with Jeffrey Epstein. He thought he was gonna be able to sweep it under the rug, and it has mushroomed, it has blown up into this huge problem for him.
- [17:56]
Julian Zelizer
Yeah, I mean, look, two things have happened. One, this is his own creation, too. He created a world of conspiratorial politics, and this one has legs, and it obviously is based on a very real crime, and he can't find his way out of it. And second, he's created a presidency where that summer rhythm doesn't actually work anymore. Neither does the weekend lull. And the news is always there. So I don't think he can really move away from a world he helped to create. And he's trying to. I mean, he's doing dramatic things like putting federal authorities in Washington, D.C. but the ferocity of MAGA is much stronger in some ways than even him.
- [18:42]
Jim Acosta
And let's tackle D.C. i do want to get into your piece because I think it's extremely important. It gets into what happened to the Bureau of Labor Statistics and the Smithsonian. So I want to get into that. But to me, and again, I don't want to overreact and give him what he wants. I don't want all of us to overreact and give him what he wants. But two things, as you were saying, can be true at the same time. It can be a distraction that's not worth, you know, our time and attention and frustration. But at the same time, he is doing something that is very serious. That a president of the United States would do something like this without do cause.
- [19:20]
Julian Zelizer
Absolutely. I mean, this country has been very reluctant to allow for federal policing, especially since the Civil War, even when there was just reason to do it. Like in the 1960s, when you had individual rights being violated in the South. Presidents Kennedy and Johnson were extremely reluctant, to the chagrin of activists, to send in federal protections. George H.W. bush did do it in 92, but it's not something presidents do very easily. And this president, this isn't the first time Now, I mean, we had la. We have the threat to other cities. And I think it is serious. It's one more guardrail shattered, kind of one more normalization of presidential power combined with federal military power. And it's clearly meant not just to distract, but to send a signal. This is how far the President will go if he wants something. And opponents pay attention to that.
- [20:18]
Jim Acosta
Yeah. When he said the other day, you know, we may be taking this further, I think he said into other cities. And he mentioned. He keeps mentioning cities and blue states. He's not mentioning places like Memphis and St. Louis and places that have high crime rates where he could certainly, you know, if he wanted to try to tackle a crime issue, send in the National Guard or federal forces or whatever. And he's not doing that. He's doing it in Democratic strongholds to sort of rattle people's cages. But I do want to get into your piece because it's highly important and I'm trying to do a better job of getting to the like. Yesterday we were talking about RFK Jr and HHS. But I want to read just a tiny bit from your piece, the Alternative Vax Presidency. It says, Since January 2025, the President has engaged in a systematic campaign to weaken and dismantle institutions that produce knowledge that conflicts with his political and personal self interests. We have seen these attacks unfold across several real mention the Bureau of Labor Statistics, this idea that government statistics should be something we can all rely on. You talk about universities and the media. We were all flummoxed by what took place over at the Smithsonian the other day where they're removing references to his impeachment. I mean, these are Orwellian things that are happening right now under his watch. I mean, the cockamamie nonsense over at the Kennedy Center. I'm going to talk about that later. But your thoughts on all of this, Julian, because I think along with what's taking place in Washington, D.C. where he's like, facts be damned, the D.C. crime statistics are a hoax and so on. He doesn't want reality. He wants his version of reality.
- [21:56]
Julian Zelizer
No, it's absolutely true. We talk a lot about the separation of powers and how the Constitution sets up a system with competing branches of government. But independent knowledge is also extremely important to a healthy democracy. We need some grounding in facts that is not produced by the person in power and what's apparent in the second term. We moved from him saying things that are not true in the first term and just kind of constantly going against reality and facts to now systematically Going against institutions that produce the knowledge. And so, yes, government statistics are something that are being eroded. The bureau was one example. I point to others where he has done the same thing. Universities and the press are very. They're not perfect, but they are very important to offering some guide to voters to know what's going on. And even the. I say the kind of idea of expertise itself is something he dismisses altogether. And so this whole infrastructure of information we depend on to hold leaders accountable is being eroded by Trump 2.0 in a way he didn't even try to do in the first administration. I think that's extremely dangerous. Even history itself, I mean, that's how far this goes. To tell the Smithsonian what kinds of exhibits fit his model. And he's explicit, from what we're reading, his vision of history as opposed to displaying the history itself.
- [23:31]
Jim Acosta
And does it speak, in your view, to a dangerous mindset? Because it does to me. It says to me that the place where he's coming from is a dangerous one. And yes, he has a shattered psyche and he wants everybody to love him. And there are all these psychological issues that can be unpacked. But to try to whitewash the truth and the history that they're telling at the Smithsonian, I mean, to do what he's doing with the Bureau of Labor Statistics, which, I mean, by the way, the Fed relies on those statistics to determine what the interest rate should be in this country. You know, you go back to alternative facts and Sean Spicer and the inauguration, crowd size and so on, we are there on a daily basis to fact check them. But if the facts themselves being put out by the government become suspect, we're in a world of hurt at that point. And it says to me that he's, you know, he's kind of lost it. My personal view.
- [24:30]
Julian Zelizer
Well, that's fair. I don't know. But certainly what we do know is how dangerous it is. And it's not surprising that in other countries and even here in bad periods of American history, knowledge is often one of the first things leaders go after. I mean, if you look at Jim Crow south, one of the things that was very common was they controlled the textbooks in schools, so that it was a very particular vision of race relations that students were exposed to. You look at authoritarian governments and you see how universities and the media are often target number one. And government statistics, when they are independent and sound, are very dangerous to a leader because they can bite you. And most presidents deal with this. I mean, President Clinton in the 90s was always frustrated in 94, when he was pushing his healthcare bill in 93, cuz the congressional Budget Office would put out information saying this is gonna cost this much and this will cost more than you think. And he was angry, but he lived with it. What we are now, this mindset you're talking about is he doesn't feel the need to live with it. And then we lose our bearing because we don't produce this information ourselves of what's actually happening in the economy and society and even our own history.
- [25:52]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, well, and you know, the Congressional Budget Office will come out, it has come out and said that his big beautiful bill legislation, which I put that in quotes, is going to cause the deficit to skyrocket. And so it's just a matter of time before he wants to go after that institution. I mean, I think we could get to a point where he's going to say I don't believe what the deficit numbers are. And I mean, you can just game this out, Julian, where this could result in some serious calamities, financial or otherwise, if we are producing data and statistics that are not in line with reality. And meanwhile, almost as if he set up a Potemkin village and meanwhile, behind the facade, you know, things are not well and things are heading south in a hurry and he's sort of, you know, fiddling while Rome burns. I don't know your thoughts.
- [26:50]
Harry Dunn
No, absolutely.
- [26:51]
Julian Zelizer
Look, there, there is a reason where in the 20th century, as the government grew, it became more important that we developed data. And again, it wasn't perfect and it didn't lead always to great results, but it was something we needed because we have to have a sense of, of what's happening in the economy and what's happening in society. So you lose that. Leaders can do almost anything and we don't really have a great sense of the effects. We do have independent institutions, whether it's independent media or academics that can still help, but the government's powerful. And secondly, it gives him a way to justify or any leader in the future to justify whatever they want to do. That's the story of D.C. i mean, he's making allegations about massive crime crises that don't match what we do know about where crime is. And it's used to justify this federal imposition. And we've seen this again and again, it's very common with how he does it. So it has multiple dangerous effects. And again, we don't always think of information as a top priority in a democracy, but it is. And finally, I mean the journalists, not only who produce the information, but who report on it are under threat because of all the different stories you have covered with organizations squeezing their own. And so at all levels, this is a dangerous place that needs to be fixed and there needs to be pushback. And Republicans will be hurt by this as much as Democrats in the long term. This isn't a red blue if it shouldn't be.
- [28:31]
Jim Acosta
No, that's right. And I'm reminded of, you know, things that took place when you and I were much younger during the fall of the Soviet Union. Soviet leaders, you know, right up until the very end, it was, you know, Gorbachev obviously brought about the changes that were necessary at that time. But you know, Soviet leaders up until that point were maintaining to the world that everything was just fine. And they were spending all of their money to try to keep up with the United States when it came to missile defense and so on. And it just demolished them financially. And they lied and lied and lied. And it's the same issue that people have with the Chinese government. We have no idea what they're saying is true. And we can't have the United States join in on that league. We can't become that kind of a country or else things could fall apart in a pretty desperate way here. The other thing that I think you mentioned that is absolutely right about Washington D.C. and it makes me want to explore this a bit further, is it took an assault on some kid that calls himself Big Balls, part of Doge or whatever that precipitated all of this. There are shootings that result in little kids getting killed all the time in Washington D.C. there is violent crime here. And he didn't enact this because of a poor kid that was accidentally shot in a drive by shooting. Something that could, I think, result in a call for more law enforcement in this town. No question about it. It was something that happened to one of his people, which is also something that is a hallmark of an authoritarian like regime. Things need to change when something happens to us, our people.
- [30:10]
Julian Zelizer
And his response so far is just a show of force. And it's not even clear that show of force is in any of the areas that have serious crime problems in D.C. and if he was serious, he could make crime, policing, criminal justice a priority for the administration, work with state and local, give resources and deal with it in the areas that really have these problems. That's not what this is. This is made for television show force that's not dealing with the crime problem. So I think it says everything. And you're right, it stems from something that happened to one of his people, as opposed to real problems that cities contend with all the time.
- [30:50]
Jim Acosta
Yeah. And Julian, maybe instead of me getting on my soapbox and leading you into a question, I should just ask you simply, we are now six months into this, roughly six months into this. Three and a half years to go. Are you worried? Are you concerned about. You study the presidency. You're a historian. This is what you do. And this is somebody who is not behaving like president of the United States. Again, I preface this by saying I wouldn't get on my soapbox. Then I did. But six months in, are you concerned?
- [31:21]
Julian Zelizer
Of course. I mean, look, at the most basic level, we should always be concerned about very aggressive uses of presidential power. There's a long history of how this goes poorly. We are in the middle of that right now, and arguably we're in one of the worst moments of that. So just on that front, there's a lot to be concerned. And then all the different ways in which we are seeing key institutions, government and otherwise being weakened, if not eroded, is very concerning. And the lack of pushback or the difficulty of pushback, I should say, is a big problem. You're right. Three and a half years left. You could just kind of map out where we might be at that point. So, look, history is. Despite what he wants to present at the Smithsonian, the president, it hasn't always been great. And there have been really problematic areas, and we should take those seriously and learn when we're seeing that happen again, that we need to have a response as a society.
- [32:24]
Jim Acosta
Yeah. Well, Gillian, it's always great to talk to you. You know, I appreciate your work so much, and you've been really thriving here on Substack. It's been an amazing experience. And I do think independent media has something to do with the solution in all of this. I'm very worried about what's happening with our media in this country. And that's another. Maybe another segment for another time. But I do think, and maybe you can speak to this just to wrap things up, it is going to require a good deal more courage than, I think, what a lot of people at the major institutions that make America America have been showing up until this point. I think that's a safe thing to say for sure.
- [33:03]
Julian Zelizer
And people are always looking around to see who the person is who's going to come and fix things and correct things. It's you, meaning all of us. And ultimately, the great moments of American history have usually resulted from citizens doing everything from protesting to pressure members of Congress to writing and thinking out loud that changed the course of history. There is no single person out there that will protect our institutions. And we all need to remember that and do our job to make sure that the democracy stays great.
- [33:40]
Jim Acosta
Yeah. All right. Well, Julian, thanks so much. I promise next time I won't get on my soapbox as much. But I'm in Washington and this really pisses me off what's taking place right now. It's the nation's capital. It's where I grew up. I grew up around here. And to see it used as a prop in this. I mean, we're used to Trump and his tactics, but this feels like another level. But, Julian, great to see you, as always. Thanks a lot.
- [34:01]
Julian Zelizer
Thanks, Jim.
- [34:02]
Jim Acosta
Okay, talk. Talk to you soon. I'm going to try to bring in Harry Dunn. I think Harry was hanging out long enough for me to go to him. The great, the wonderful Harry Dunn. I've got to get Harry's take on all this because, you know, like, give me a break. What the hell's going on right now? Why are we seeing what we're seeing at this moment? Let's see if we can bring Harry and hopefully I'm bringing in. I hit the right Harry Dunn here. I might have hit the wrong. Did I hit the wrong Harry Dunn? We're going to find out in just a moment. But as we wait for Harry and I hope he let me just make sure he's. He's paying attention at this particular moment. I, you know, the. The conversation with Julian is an important one because we need to get to a place where. You know what? Let's see here. I'm gonna try. I'm gonna do the other one just in case it's the other one. How about that? That's a good idea. Let's try that one. Just in case. I think it's. I think I have the right one, but just in case. The reason why I wanted to get Julian on. And I'm gonna try to do this a bit more if I can, in addition, just trying to cover the daily stuff that happens with. With Epstein and so on, is how very special this moment is right now. How very. And special is probably the wrong word. How very troubling. The significance of this time, I think, can't be overstated. You have President of the United States. And again, we don't want to fall for the distractions. We don't want to fall for that. But again, a President of the United States sending in the National Guard the videos are already starting to come out. It's coming back from a task I was taking care of, an errand I was taking care of last night. And there they were, the members of the National Guard there on the National Mall with their armored vehicles and so on. And what is the image that we are showing to the rest of America? What is the image that we're sending out to the rest of the world? Are we now just saying that we are living under the thumb of a wannabe dictator? I mean, I suppose I'm answering my own question here. It seems like that is the moment that we are in the middle of right now. And I do think it's something that we all have to spend a whole lot of time thinking about and worrying a great deal about. Because, you know, I was thinking about this over the last day or so. I was driving out to get my dad out in West Virginia yesterday, had a long drive. You know, Trump obviously is in a jam. He's freaked out about the Epstein files. As we were talking about with Sky Perryman earlier, they're trying everything that they can to keep this under wraps. He's throwing out every distraction in the book. And we've been saying this over the last couple of weeks, that as he throws out these distractions, he's going to find the ones that don't work. And it looks like maybe we can't get Harry out. He's going to throw out these distractions and he's going to keep throwing out the distractions until he hits on the one that gets under everybody's skin, that gets everybody freaked out and throws everybody off of what he is concerned about, and that is the release of the Epstein files. He's in the Epstein files in numerous instances. Apparently that's what's been reported. He doesn't want that information getting out. And he's been trying to distract everybody ever since. And he has found something that has gotten our attention. There's just no question about it because of the potential that he could keep escalating. Let's try this one more time. Let me just double check. Harry, if you're out there, jump on in. He has found the distraction that has worked. And I think that it is something that we need to take note of because I don't think he's going to stop here. I think that other cities are probably next. He named some cities the other day when he rolled this thing out, mentioned Baltimore, mentioned Oakland, not mentioning large cities in Republican states. Okay, he's not going to do that. Not going to alienate those, those folks from those states. But it says to me that he is, as, as this drags on, as he continues to try to cover it up, he's going to be more and more dangerous. If we get Harry. Great. If, if we can, I'll try to get him in here tomorrow. But the other thing I wanted to mention, too, is, and this gets back to the mindset of the person who is doing all of this, who is doing all of this damage. Donald Trump was over at the Kennedy center today announcing, I guess, the new class of Kennedy center honorees and, you know, revealed that he is going to be hosting this year's ceremony personally. What is the President of the United States doing hosting the Kennedy center honors? I mean, honestly, it is absolutely a joke. But, you know, I've done this before on the show. To me, this is. Right. Another episode of the Dear Leader Files. Hey, and there's Harry right there. Harry, how are you, man? Good to see you.
- [39:59]
Harry Dunn
You too. Jim. How's it going, buddy?
- [40:01]
Jim Acosta
Excellent. I knew if I let that invite hang out there, I was like, Harry's gonna jump in here sooner or later.
- [40:05]
Harry Dunn
I'm coming, I'm coming. You know, I wouldn't leave you hanging, man.
- [40:08]
Jim Acosta
No, no, no. No worries. And I came to you a little early, but we just talked about this Kennedy center stuff. I'm gonna put that to the side. Your thoughts on. I mean, are we. Is this an invasion? I mean, Trump used to talk all the time. We're under attack. This is an invasion. What the hell's going on here? The National Guards of DC for no damn reason.
- [40:30]
Harry Dunn
It's an invasion of his cult, man, his MAGA following and these, these people that have no concept or clue what democracy looks like, what separation of powers looks like, equal justice under the law. They don't know what that shit looks like, man.
- [40:45]
Jim Acosta
No way.
- [40:47]
Harry Dunn
It's zero idea. Talk about all these people that are talking about, oh, let's keep the government out of stuff. Unless it's taking over Democratic cities, right? Like all the cities that Donald Trump named in his press conference. All as coincidentally, all democratic cities. Right. But all the. All the small government, keep government out of stuff, folks are really silent. Well, no, they're not silent. They're expressing their joy. Their joy over taking out, owning the libs, taking out the Democrats, man. So, yeah, they're full of Donald Trump. His order has zero to home. Home Rule act has zero to do. There's zero evidence to support it. In fact, his own director, Cash Patel, sat at that news conference and what did he say? Crime is trending down to historically low levels that we've ever. Like he's in the history of it. The murder rate will be the lowest ever. So. All right, how do you, so how do you justify bringing in the guard? Because the city's out of control.
- [41:45]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, no, it's, it's, it's, it's obviously. And you know, on January 6th, he couldn't get the National Guard there until it was five. What, five or six o' clock in the evening was already over.
- [41:56]
Harry Dunn
He called have got him there. He could have got him there. He didn't get them there.
- [42:00]
Jim Acosta
Didn't.
- [42:00]
Harry Dunn
He failed Because. Because what? The violence is being committed in his name.
- [42:05]
Jim Acosta
That's right.
- [42:06]
Harry Dunn
Which is why those guys are pardoned now.
- [42:09]
Jim Acosta
Exactly. Well, and, and you know, there's, there's, there's bullshit hypocrisy on top of bullshit hypocrisy here. I mean, the other thing too is he only did this after what, some, some maga. Doge guy got little balls.
- [42:24]
Harry Dunn
Little Balls, I think is his name or something like that.
- [42:26]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, Calls himself Big Ball. I don't know, maybe the guy who sent in the guard is Little Balls. You know, I mean, honestly. So you and I both know this because we've been around this area a long time. Crime happens in D.C. it happens. There's no question about it. It's horrible. But Trump didn't do this after some little kid was shot in some drive by shooting or something like that. He did it when it happened to one of his people.
- [42:49]
Harry Dunn
People give me absolutely. Well, look, let's be clear, Jim. Like, let's be 100 clear. This, this is kind of ties into the whole Abrego Garcia thing. This isn't about Garcia. Democrats are defending him. No, we weren't defending him. We're defending his due process.
- [43:05]
Jim Acosta
So.
- [43:05]
Harry Dunn
Right, let's be clear. Everybody should feel safe walking around D.C. whether it's your family, with your, with your family, your friends, by yourself. You should have to, you should have to look over your shoulder. But where we want safe communities, we want that. However, this isn't about what Donald Trump wants. That's not what Donald Trump is doing here. Donald Trump is turning this, this country, and he's starting with D.C. as a test case into a police state. If this was about. Listen, when I was a Capitol police officer, I was there for 15 plus years and there are at least three shelters within walking distance, walking distance of the US Capitol. So we encountered homeless people all the time and we would tell them hey, do you know about the shelters? And they would say, you know what? It's safer for us to live on the street than it is to be in those, those centers. They can feel safe there. So Pam Bondi. Well, yeah, Pam Bondi and, and left Carolyn Levitt are talking about if these people don't go to the centers, they're going to put them in jail. Like, what you don't, they don't care about the root cause. Like, like, let's be clear. The difference between Democrats and what this MAGA cult does is we care about making stuff, fixing it for everybody, not just a band aid on it. Let's get to the root cause of the problem and let's fix. Yeah, I would love to fix crime. I would love to. Let's do it.
- [44:21]
Jim Acosta
I totally agree with you. And one thing that would help fix crime in D.C. address a lot of the problems that Washington, D.C. has had historically for a very long time, is to give D.C. statehood. The people here live under taxation without representation. If they had a congressman or congresswoman with voting rights beyond what Eleanor Holmes Norton has, if they had two senators, like, I mean, D.C. has more people than Wyoming and Vermont. And people live here without the money.
- [44:52]
Harry Dunn
And the money that they pay the money. The reason why DC Will never get statehood as long as it's under Republican control. Excuse me, the government, the federal government's not in Republic control. It's because it'll give two new, two Democratic votes in the Senate, whatever. One representative. It'll be one. They'll never have Republic. So they're not going to give Democratic seats. Look what they're doing in Texas. They're doing everything they can to take Democratic seats, let alone give them. So this isn't, this isn't about crime. This is about Donald Trump turning this into, into a police state. And listen, we got to support our National Guardsmen. But they are. Donald Trump is setting them up for failure. Westmore was on Fox and Friends this morning and he talked about how they're not trained to be municipal police. Like, they're trained on how to do riot control. If there were riots going on, then, yes, let's bring in the National Guard to support law enforcement, but not to walk around the communities, not to enforce laws. They probably don't even know no local.
- [45:51]
Jim Acosta
Laws in D.C. well, and Harry, you were a cop. I mean, riddle me this. Answer this question for me. How do you solve Crime in Washington, D.C. where do you go and crack down on crime in Washington, D.C. they had national Guard members down on the Mall. There is no crime down on the mall. No significant crime on the mall. They had DEA agents walking through Georgetown. Give me a break. That. You're not solving the problem.
- [46:13]
Harry Dunn
Not at all. Crime in D.C. well, crime. Every. For the most part, crime is. Crime is committed because it's a crime of opportunity, the majority of it. Now, yes, there are premeditated attacks and everything like that, but there are crimes of opportunity. So, oh, this person left their car unlocked. Hey, they're not looking while they're pumping gas. Let me go steal their car. Hey, this person's on their phone. I'm gonna go take. So crimes are opportunity. Let's stop creating opportunities for these people. Give them. And. And. And this may be unpopular, but we got to start holding them accountable when police do arrest them. There are cases, and I will agree with the administration in some capacity. I can't find myself. It's tough to even say that. But there are a lot of times where these people get before judges and they just get sent back out on the street. We got to start holding people accountable, criminals accountable, but with due process. Give them their due process and hold them accountable. We can't go back on the street. You have to punish people that are. And then get to the root problem, root cause problem of what is causing what is the cause of these problems. And a lot of times they don't even care. They just want to say, hey, just put everybody in jail.
- [47:20]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, no, that's absolutely right. And I was saying this earlier. I really don't want to get into a back and forth with Donald Trump over what the crime statistics are, but the crime statistics for the Metropolitan Police Department say violent crime is down 26%, homicides are down 11%, crime is going down in D.C. he can say, oh, well, they're rigged. And so he says about everything he doesn't agree with. Holy shit. And the last time I checked, he's the convicted felon who is trying to cover up the goddamn Epstein files. He's the one.
- [47:50]
Harry Dunn
And you know what's crazy about that?
- [47:52]
Jim Acosta
Want to solve some crime? I know where you can go.
- [47:54]
Harry Dunn
You can start right there. Really? Do you really care about protecting our kids, keeping our children safe? Because you're one of the biggest. We don't even. We know. Like, listen, if I was being called a pedophile and I had a way to clear my name, best believe I would be releasing every damn piece of paper I had.
- [48:13]
Jim Acosta
Thank you.
- [48:15]
Harry Dunn
But you know why he's not?
- [48:16]
Jim Acosta
I'd be like, you get an Epstein file, You get an Epstein file.
- [48:18]
Harry Dunn
You know, give it to everybody. Give it to everybody. I saw somebody, somebody wrote a comment today somewhere said pam Bondi has read the Epstein files. So that means she has job security forever because she knows Donald Trump's name is all over it. I mean, Elon Musk said it. Elon Musk, Donald Trump is under Epstein files. And you know, whatever, you know, they're full of it. He was, he was right. They're full of it. And they, their supporters don't care. And this, and this goes to the bigger picture. Their supporters don't care. They say that they do, but when it comes down to it, they're not going to ever vote for Democrats. They're just going to stay home or do this out. So I've always been like solutions oriented. How the hell can we do it? We have to win these elections, man. We have to get people to continue to show up, to turn out. You can't just rage, tweet. We got to do something about it and continue to be effective and everything like that.
- [49:10]
Jim Acosta
So, you know, and maybe I'm just speculating here, maybe, you know, Big Balls worked for Doge. Maybe he was the one that downloaded the Epstein files onto a thumb drive. And Trump's like, oh shit, I got to take care of my boy. Big Balls, you know, send in the National Guard. It's just speculation, folks.
- [49:26]
Harry Dunn
Big Balls got his ass whooped by some 15 year old girls. So I mean like, no, no, no, no shade to women or girls or anything like that, because that. But give me a damn. You got your ass kicked by some 15 year old women. Girls. Screw you.
- [49:41]
Jim Acosta
And Harry, I mean, as my mother used to say, nothing good happens after 2am he's out, you know, bar hopping or whatever he's doing in the middle of the night, stuff's gonna happen. You know, when you're, when you're a frail 18 year old little white boy, you know what I'm saying? You know, better watch out at home.
- [49:58]
Harry Dunn
Go home to where you belong. You're not even united, you're not even from dc. Get out, go to hell where you're from. Like, and that's another thing.
- [50:04]
Jim Acosta
Like I've always invented PlayStation.
- [50:06]
Harry Dunn
But anyway, yeah, I've always said, like, listen man, and that's another thing for police to be successful in community, the communities, the police officers need to be familiar with the communities. Like you're going into certain areas and be like, oh, that's just Jim. Jim's always out there, the old Jim, always the Jim's Going to do this. Jim's going, oh, Jim doesn't drink. He gets hammered and he walks home like there's stuff like that to happen to communities all across the country. That police, that effective police know that. But what Donald Trump gave that when he said police can do whatever the hell that they want. That's, that's frightening. And I feel like a lot of more reporters need to be covering that. What do you mean? So the police can break the law? Is that what you're saying? Then nobody's pushing back on that.
- [50:50]
Jim Acosta
No, you're absolutely right about that. And I'm glad we're talking about this because, I mean, my very first reporting job was in a place called Knoxville, Tennessee. It's a nice city. University of Tennessee is there, and so on. And as one of my assignments, I got into a community policing program and observed what they do in community policing. Community policing involves going out into the neighborhoods, the cops going into the neighborhoods, getting to know the people who are kind of the, the big gatekeepers to the neighborhood, the stakeholders in the neighborhood, the people at the churches, the community centers and so on. You get to know the kids, you get to know the families, you get to know the neighborhood leaders and so on. And that's how you get, you talk to people and say, okay, where are you having crime problems? Oh, they're happening on this block over here, or they're happening outside that liquor store over there. That's how you start to solve community crime is real hands on community policing. And that's completely lost in all of this.
- [51:49]
Harry Dunn
Well, the community knows best. And don't you think the community leaders know best also? I mean, he's not giving Muriel Bowser any kind of credit. Mural Bowser, the governor, the mayor of Washington D.C. is even, like, we don't need, like, he's not listening to anybody. Like, what was that? I alone can fix it. That's Donald Trump's mantra. Everything. That's his mantra for everything. I mean, look what he did to California. We don't need you, bro. Go home. We got this, this. So that's what he wants to do. And he can only do that right now in Washington, D.C. and everybody keeps talking about, well, in 30 days, let's be clear, in 30 days, it has to get congressional approval. When has this Congress ever told him no? Let's be real. Do we really expect Congress to tell Donald Trump no? So this can go on for an indefinite period of time and by then.
- [52:36]
Jim Acosta
He'Ll have some other distraction. And then when we aren't Looking, they'll pull the guard and the DEA and the FBI out of D.C. and it'll just move on and be something else. But he's gotten his distraction this week and he's gotten people talking about it, but we don't need to put up with this shit. And I mean, again, if they want to have the National Guard do something, go have them find the Epstein files. That, to me, would be a good mission for the National Guard.
- [53:00]
Harry Dunn
Absolutely, man. Listen, I don't want to diminish the National Guard. They're very effective. They. They.
- [53:08]
Jim Acosta
Oh, we love the National. Absolutely.
- [53:11]
Harry Dunn
They have a. They have a great. But we're not putting them in the best position to be successful. And what we're doing is we're actually putting in a light for them to be ridiculed and not attacked. Not attacked. I'm not talking about physically attacked, but admonished by the communities. Because while D.C. residents resent the fact that the National Guard is there and the federal officers are there, we resent D.C. resent that. And now you have a community that resents that, and probably a community that doesn't even want to be there. That's kind of like following orders, and that's a recipe for disaster. And it's only going to lead to civil unrest. And that nothing would please Donald Trump more than civil unrest.
- [53:51]
Jim Acosta
That's what he wants. He wants a spark. He wants something to provoke a response. That's what he was hoping for in LA, and they didn't give it to him in LA. And he's trying in Washington D.C. to see if they'll do Washington D.C. probably because he remembers what happened after George Floyd, when there were scuffles between the police and the protesters. But they announced it the other day. On Monday, there were protests outside the White House in downtown dc, and they did not give Trump what he wanted. I think that's the answer. Peaceful protest.
- [54:22]
Harry Dunn
I feel like what we do is treat him like we did his birthday party, the military birthday. Just get everybody. Okay, you know what? I'll just stay home. Screw you, dude. Everybody just stay home. Like, think we've seen a lot of footage. We've seen a lot of footage of those individuals walking around. Like, oh, what are we supposed to do? Walking around Georgetown or Dupont Circle? Like, wait, where the people at? Like, what did you think? You didn't do your research? Do you have no plan? There's not. Like, listen, if they were being strategic and had an actual plan to combat crime and let's do it, let's do it. Yeah, but Donald Trump is trying to.
- [54:57]
Jim Acosta
That's not what this is.
- [54:59]
Harry Dunn
Like, like, you need a screwdriver for this. And Donald Trump is trying to hammer a screw in. Like, you dumb idiot.
- [55:05]
Jim Acosta
Like, yeah, yeah. This is not his strong suit, fixing things. He's good. He's good.
- [55:11]
Harry Dunn
Nothing is a strong suit. Nothing is a strong suit. Lying to people is his strong. That's all the hell he does. Lie to people. Dude.
- [55:17]
Jim Acosta
Being full of shit is a strong suit. That's a strong suit. But distracting people, maybe. I'll give them that. But. All right, Harry, great to see you. I thank you for pulling over and jumping on. I needed a little dose of Harry Dunn today. And Michigan.
- [55:29]
Harry Dunn
You got it, man. Thanks for having me, buddy.
- [55:31]
Jim Acosta
Always on the case. We appreciate it.
- [55:32]
Harry Dunn
Yeah, man. Talk to you later.
- [55:34]
Jim Acosta
All right. Talk to you. Thanks. You want to solve any problem, send in Harry Dunn. That's. That's my solution. In the Acosta administration, Harry Dunn will be in charge of kicking. Kicking ass and taking names. Folks, my thanks to Harry on that. I did want to mention, again, we have to close out by. By going back to the Dear Leader files. You know, Donald Trump. You know, I used to say, if Fox News could have just given Donald TRUMP his own TV show 10 years ago, we would have been spared all of this. I think at the end of the day, what is sad, it's a little bit of a Crusty the Clown episode on the Simpsons. It sort of sat Elvis, you know, at the Tropicana right before the end. There's just something pathetic about him wanting to host the Kennedy Center Honors and saying that he wants to be honored by the Kennedy center, which he is now the chairman of, which makes no sense at all. But anyway, he was announcing earlier today the honorees that are going to be at this year's Kennedy Center Honors. People like Sylvester Stallone, Michael Crawford from Phantom of the Opera. I'm not going to go off on any of these people. George Strait, Gloria Gaynor, the band Kiss. I mean, somebody. That's fine, whatever. Give those people words. That's all well and good. The thing I want to point out. The thing I want to point out is the stuff that comes out of his mouth is bananas. The stuff that comes out of his mouth is absolutely cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs sometimes. And today was one of those examples. And it raises the question, why in the hell are we listening to this guy again? I talked about this with Mehdi Hasan a few months ago. If somebody were on the park bench next to you mumbling and Muttering the kind of nonsense that comes out of his mouth. Sometimes you would get up and move and find another park bench. And earlier today, he was talking about how he's going to fix Washington. Did you guys hear about this? The grass? He was talking about the grass. You heard about the weave. This is the grass. He goes, we're going to redo the grass with the finest grasses. I know a lot about grass. I own a lot of golf courses. If you don't have good grass, you aren't in business very long. And then he turns to Lindsey Graham and says, good poll numbers, Lindsey Graham. I mean, guys, that ain't the weave. That. That's some. That is some batshit bananas, cuckoo for Cocoa Puff stuff. That if somebody. If that's the weave, you know, somebody needs to pull them aside and say, you know, Mr. President, let's not talk about the grass outside. It's not good. And so, you know, it raises the question to me, and this has happened on a number of occasions, and I don't think I've spent enough time on this program talking about this enough. What are we doing listening to this guy babbling incoherently about the grass? I wish I could play the video for you, because we could all just sit back and marvel the lunacy of it. But, I mean, this is like One Flew over the Cuckoo's Nest level shit, where he's talking about the Kennedy Center Honors and he thinks that we want to hear him talk about the grass. What's happening? What's Lindsey Graham thinking? I guess he was talking to Lindsey Graham at that moment. What was Lindsey Graham thinking when Donald Trump said, we'll redo the grass with the finest grasses? I know a lot about grass. I own a lot of golf courses. If you don't have good grass, you aren't in business very long. Lindsey Graham. Good poll numbers, Lindsey. Congratulations. I'm sorry. Talk about grass. Yeah, somebody was saying Cheech and Chong level stuff. That's some, as Johnny Carson used to say, weird and wild stuff, whereas George W. Bush said after Trump's first inauguration, that was some weird shit. You know, my concern is, is that the weave is getting a little too wild. The weave is getting a little too wild. We're weaving off course off the embankment and into. Into the abyss. But, my God, what has happened to Donald Trump? He wants to be. He wants to be Bob Hope now. He's going to get up there and say, thanks for the memories, and he's gonna, you know, raise a glass to Judge Jeanine Pirro. Well, I guess, come to think of it, he'll raise a glass and she'll raise the wine box. But anyway. Tip your waiters and bartenders. But anyway. He is becoming so desperate. The serpentine. Yeah, he is becoming so desperate to distract us that he sounds like somebody who has completely lost their damn mind. The park bench rule. If somebody on the park bench were to say, we're going to redo the grass with the finest grasses. I know a lot about grass. I own a lot of golf courses. If you don't have good grass, you aren't in business very long. Lindsey Graham. Good poll numbers, Lindsay. Congratulations. If somebody was doing that on the park bench, you would call the cops. You might call the National Guard. Might not be a bad idea to call the DEA for some drug enforcement. But it doesn't sound like normalcy. Doesn't sound like somebody who's all there. And as we're sending in the national guard into Washington, D.C. for no goddamn reason, I wonder if there's somebody inside the White House. Somebody inside the Cabinet, perhaps, who's giving this a little bit of thought. The grass will redo the grass with the finest grasses. Folks, we're on the dark side of the moon. I just hope we could all get home all right. Well, thanks, everybody for tuning in. I really appreciate it. I. Somebody said, I think Jim has lost his damn mind. It's possible. I'm going to go redo the grass right now. But thanks, everybody for watching. My thanks to Sky Pearman and the important work that they're doing over at Democracy Forward. My thanks to Julian Zelizer and the great stuff that he does. Please make sure you subscribe to him on Substack and the wonderful Harry Dunn. I had to end with a little Harry Dunn to brighten up my day. I would trust Harry to redo the grass, but not Donald Trump. Let's not have Donald Trump redo the grass. All right, guys. Thanks, everybody for watching. Really appreciate it. Still reporting from Washington, I'm Jim Acosta. Have a good evening, everybody. Good night.
- [63:17]
Sky Pearman
It.