Former Congressman Adam Kinzinger and Michael Cohen blast Trump's talk of a third term

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Jim Acosta Show Episode Title: Former Congressman Adam Kinzinger and Michael Cohen blast Trump's talk of a third term
Host: Jim Acosta
Release Date: March 31, 2025

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Introduction

In this compelling episode of The Jim Acosta Show, host Jim Acosta engages in a fervent discussion with former Congressman Adam Kinzinger and Michael Cohen. The primary focus centers around former President Donald Trump's alarming remarks about pursuing a third term, which blatantly contravenes the U.S. Constitution's 22nd Amendment. The conversation delves deep into the implications of such actions, touching upon economic policies, foreign affairs, campaign finance, and the erosion of democratic norms.

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Trump’s Third Term Ambitions

[00:00 - 02:26]

Jim Acosta opens the episode by addressing Trump’s recent statements about running for a third term, highlighting that such an endeavor is constitutionally prohibited. He references NBC reports confirming Trump’s non-dismissal of this possibility and shares Trump’s own words:

“A lot of people want me to do it, but I mean, it’s a long way to go... there are methods with which you could do it.”
— Donald Trump [00:58]

Adam Kinzinger expresses his mixed feelings, emphasizing Trump's apparent desire to maintain relevance:

“I think all he’s doing is he’s trying to maintain his relevancy.”
— Adam Kinzinger [01:18]

Kinzinger further elaborates on the constitutional challenges, expressing concern over Trump's disregard for constitutional boundaries and the role of the Supreme Court in adjudicating such matters.

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Economic Policies and Tariffs

[06:57 - 11:22]

The discussion transitions to Trump’s economic maneuvers, specifically the announcement of new tariffs labeled as “Liberation Day.” Acosta criticizes the President’s approach, noting the potential destabilization of the economy:

“He is really playing with matches here, it seems to me with the economy.”
— Jim Acosta [07:57]

Kinzinger counters by explaining the limited direct influence a president typically has over the economy but acknowledges that Trump's actions can sway public sentiment, which in turn impacts economic stability:

“He can inject optimism or inject pessimism.”
— Adam Kinzinger [08:31]

They discuss the potential repercussions of these tariffs, including supply chain disruptions and increased consumer prices, highlighting the dissonance between Trump's actions and traditional Republican economic principles.

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Signal Gate Controversy

[17:36 - 22:18]

Jim Acosta brings up the recent Signal Gate controversy, questioning the involvement of senior administration officials in what appears to be a mismanaged decision-making process. He points out the lack of typical oversight and expertise exhibited during the incident:

“There are multiple senior administration officials, including the ones that were supposed to have some semblance of fear, of confidence.”
— Jim Acosta [16:53]

Adam Kinzinger criticizes the overextension of personnel in critical decisions, suggesting that such missteps endanger national security:

“They have 19, 18, 19 people on that.”
— Adam Kinzinger [16:19]

The conversation underscores the potential threats posed by incompetent handling of national security matters, using the Signal Gate incident as a case study.

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Campaign Finance and Elon Musk’s Influence

[12:09 - 17:36]

The episode shifts focus to the alarming influence of billionaires like Elon Musk in political campaigns. Acosta voices concern over Musk’s direct financial contributions to state Supreme Court races, questioning the legality and ethical implications:

“How is this legal? You ran in a lot of races... handing out million dollar checks to voters.”
— Jim Acosta [12:19]

Adam Kinzinger agrees, advocating for serious campaign finance reform to prevent undue influence by the ultra-wealthy:

“Our campaign finance laws never took into account that something like this would happen.”
— Adam Kinzinger [12:39]

They discuss the broader impact of such financial maneuvers on democratic processes, emphasizing the need for regulations to maintain electoral integrity.

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Foreign Policy Issues: The Greenland Scenario

[24:42 - 28:30]

Foreign policy takes center stage as the trio examines the contentious topic of Greenland's strategic significance. Acosta references J.D. Vance’s provocative statements about the necessity of controlling Greenland:

“He just announces that he’s going to do it, even if the Constitution says you can’t do it.”
— Jim Acosta [25:11]

Adam Kinzinger analyzes the geopolitical ramifications, pointing out the potential for NATO conflicts and the destabilization of alliances:

“If this actually does come to a head, you’re really going to have a NATO ally against a NATO ally.”
— Adam Kinzinger [26:03]

They explore the implications of territorial expansion and the strain it could place on international relations, drawing parallels with Vladimir Putin’s strategies.

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Attacks on Press Corps and Erosion of Democratic Norms

[58:11 - 59:57]

In the closing segments, Acosta passionately addresses the Trump administration’s hostile actions towards the press, highlighting incidents like the cancellation of Amber Ruffin’s hosting duties at the White House Correspondents Dinner:

“It makes me worry that maybe this White House correspondence dinner is just something that should just go away for now.”
— Jim Acosta [61:50]

He condemns the administration’s efforts to undermine journalistic integrity and freedom, stressing the importance of a robust, independent press in safeguarding democracy.

Michael Cohen reinforces this sentiment, urging collective action against attempts to destabilize democratic institutions:

“We will not allow people to get tired... democracy is worth protecting.”
— Michael Cohen [44:04]

The conversation underscores the critical role of the press in holding power accountable and the dangers posed by executive overreach.

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Conclusion and Call to Action

[58:56 - End]

As the episode wraps up, Acosta and Cohen emphasize the necessity for public engagement and vigilance to preserve democratic values. They advocate for town halls and grassroots movements to counteract the erosion of constitutional norms and resist authoritarian tendencies.

“We can keep people energized. You got to keep people engaged.”
— Jim Acosta [58:11]

The episode concludes with a motivational call to action, urging listeners to remain informed, participate actively in democratic processes, and resist the encroachment of authoritarian practices.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Donald Trump on Third Term:

  “A lot of people want me to do it, but I mean, it’s a long way to go... there are methods with which you could do it.”
  — Donald Trump [00:58]

• Adam Kinzinger on Maintaining Relevancy:

  “I think all he’s doing is he’s trying to maintain his relevancy.”
  — Adam Kinzinger [01:18]

• Jim Acosta on Economic Stability:

  “He is really playing with matches here, it seems to me with the economy.”
  — Jim Acosta [07:57]

• Adam Kinzinger on Economic Influence:

  “He can inject optimism or inject pessimism.”
  — Adam Kinzinger [08:31]

• Michael Cohen on Campaign Finance:

  “We have to have serious campaign finance reform. We have to limit the amount of money in there.”
  — Michael Cohen [12:39]

• Adam Kinzinger on Supreme Court Dynamics:

  “When you have judges thinking strategically, like, I’m going to hang on until my party comes into power to retire, then you end up basically turning the Supreme Court into, in essence, a third legislative branch.”
  — Adam Kinzinger [25:11]

• Michael Cohen on Democratic Vigilance:

  “It’s part of their plan. It’s chaos, it’s confusion. It is designed, Jim, to make us numb.”
  — Michael Cohen [42:04]

• Jim Acosta on Press Integrity:

  “Why in God’s name are we having a dinner with people who work for somebody like that?”
  — Jim Acosta [61:56]

• Michael Cohen on Democratic Defense:

  “We will not allow people to get tired... democracy is worth protecting.”
  — Michael Cohen [44:04]

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Key Takeaways

1. Constitutional Crisis: Trump's remarks about a third term pose a direct challenge to the 22nd Amendment, risking a severe constitutional crisis.
2. Economic Instability: The imposition of new tariffs under the guise of “Liberation Day” threatens economic stability, potentially leading to increased consumer prices and strained international relations.
3. Foreign Policy Concerns: The discussion on Greenland underscores potential NATO conflicts and the destabilization of international alliances.
4. Campaign Finance Reform: The episode highlights the urgent need for stringent campaign finance laws to prevent undue influence by billionaires like Elon Musk.
5. Erosion of Democratic Norms: Attacks on the press and attempts to undermine journalistic integrity signal a troubling trend towards authoritarianism.
6. Public Vigilance: Acosta and Cohen call for heightened public engagement and resistance against efforts to erode democratic institutions and constitutional safeguards.

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Conclusion

This episode of The Jim Acosta Show serves as a critical examination of the current political landscape, emphasizing the dangers of executive overreach, economic mismanagement, and the erosion of democratic principles. Through insightful dialogue with Adam Kinzinger and Michael Cohen, Acosta underscores the imperative for public vigilance and active participation in safeguarding the nation’s constitutional framework.

Transcript

[Jim Acosta]

Welcome, everybody, to the Jim Acosta show. It is Monday. It is April Fool's Day Eve, apparently, which is a perfect segue to my first story. Donald Trump not joking around, apparently talking about running for a third term. As you can see, Adam Kinzinger is with me on the program today. Former congressman, great to see you again, Adam. It's been far too long. And Michael Cohen's coming up a little later for Michael Monday. But, Adam, let's just jump right into all of this. Trump says he's, quote, not joking about running for a third term. And NBC reporting Trump did not rule out the possibility of seeking a third term in the White House, which is prohibited by the constitution under the 22nd amendment. He told Kristen Welker, a lot of people want me to do it, but I mean, I basically tell them we have a long way to go. You know, it's very early in the administration. And then he said there are methods with which you could do it, Adam. You know, there are lots of methods to do lots of things. There weren't methods for keeping, there were, there weren't methods from, for keeping Donald Trump from running for president again. That didn't work. But what are your thoughts on this? I mean, to me, it's just, you know, it's a perfect segue to April Fool's Day, I feel like. So here we are.

[Adam Kinzinger]

By the way, it's cool to see you. It's good to be with you.

[Jim Acosta]

It's good to be with you, too. Absolutely.

[Adam Kinzinger]

Yeah. Listen, I think I'm so mixed on this because first off, if I'm just speaking logically, I think all he's doing is he's trying to maintain his relevancy. Right. Because the second, you know, you get elected and, you know, I had to deal with this when I decided I wasn't going to run again. The second you announce you're not running again, you're basically like half as effective. Right. I was lucky in that I was on the committee. And so I continue to do things. But so I think that's part of it. And so I'm not too worried about it. But I will caveat that and say I have the right to reserve being wrong in this case because exactly what we've seen is his like, ability, his care for the Constitution. He doesn't care about the Constitution. And what's really going to matter is how does the Supreme Court rule on things like birthright citizenship, these due process issues? And ultimately, I think the Supreme Court on big constitutional issues like this will hold true but if they don't, then I get worried about it. And, you know, there may be some. Look, he's got all the smartest people at Heritage foundation trying to figure out a way around this, so let's just leave it at that, I guess.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah. I mean, apparently Kristen asked about a possible scenario in which J.D. vance would run for office and then pass the role to Trump. That sounds like right out of the sick mind of Steve Bannon. That sounds like a Steve Bannon thing. I mean, I'm just going to say it right now. I'm just going to predict that that's where that came from. But. And apparently Trump says, but there are others, too. I don't know what that is, but this is the scenario that's been running through my mind, Adam. And it goes like this. He just announces that he's going to do it, even if the Constitution says you can't do it. He starts getting on ball in various primary states, caucus states, and of course, these state party chairmen and chairwomen and so on are not going to stand up to him. And we'll do these stories all over again about how the Republican Party is the party of Trump and they won't deal with any of this shit. And then he's just going to start winning primaries and he's going to say to the Supreme Court, well, this is what the people want. This is democracy. And he's going to force yet another constitutional crisis. And we'll talk about that. I mean, I hate to make it sound so realistic, but. But that, to me, is something that could happen.

[Adam Kinzinger]

Yeah, I agree with you. And I think that's the big key is what people. What I often forget is a primary in a state. It's really not a government function. Really, all a primary is are the parties having an election. So it's like a way to have a part. An election within the Republican or the Democratic Party. So the states don't have a lot of control over who can put. Who a party can put up and not. And yeah, if they put Donald Trump up there and he starts winning these things, they're going to have solid arguments to make. And, you know, again, who knows what the Supreme Court will say on that. I'm not worried about it yet. Part of the thing that we have going for us in this case is that Donald Trump will be 82 years old and, you know, he eats a lot of cheeseburgers and everything else, but.

[Jim Acosta]

Right.

[Adam Kinzinger]

I mean, if he was 50, I'd be a little more worried about this. But you know, the real question is, who's going to take up his legacy? Are they going to be as effective as he is? And I think that remains to be seen for sure.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah. And we can talk about J.D. vance. I mean, he was in Greenland. I did want to bring that up with you, but since you mentioned Trump's age, you know, I have this tendency at times, and maybe it's the boyishness in me from time to time. I want to troll the people on Fox from time to time and get into this. But when you see Donald Trump on tv, he looks old and that expression, he's not on top of his game or whatever at the top of his game. He just looks much more tired, much more out of it, not with it. He repeats. I've been calling him the CNC president lately because you pull the string. This is a duck, this is a cow, this is a tariff. You know, that's who he is now. And he's not the same guy I remember covering back in 2016. He's just not.

[Adam Kinzinger]

Yeah, it's always interesting because it's like the frog boiling in the pot. You don't notice it unless you look back at the clips from 2016. And the crazy thing is in 2016, he was so kind of out of the norm that, you know, he seemed crazy. And you're like, well, he seems crazy today, therefore. But if you look back at 16 in comparison, he seemed like he really had it together. He was actually making some coherent arguments. Now, and this is the other weird thing, and I don't mean to be shallow about this, but his makeup's even gotten weirder.

[Jim Acosta]

It's crazy looking.

[Adam Kinzinger]

Yeah, it's. Yeah, that. And that to me is strange. Again, I'm not just saying it as like a cheap shot, but like, no, it's very obviously insane makeup. Like, how is that making it past the past, the sensors or whatever.

[Jim Acosta]

Well, and you and I are of an age that we remember the Simpsons back in the day and Crusty the Clown, remember when Crusty the Clown, he was just got old and it was like, it was a commentary on the old, like stage actors and you know, when they reach, when they get past their prime and so on, and it's just sort of latter day Crusty the Clown vibes.

[Adam Kinzinger]

It is, it is. And but the thing he has going for him is he's like angry, angry grandpa on the Simpsons where it's like.

[Jim Acosta]

True, you know, he grandpa Simpson at the clouds.

[Adam Kinzinger]

You know, man yells at cloud. But he's like, he's especially shameless. And what I never realized is how much shamelessness is a superpower in politics.

[Jim Acosta]

Well, that's true.

[Adam Kinzinger]

And I mean, it is. So, yeah, look, I think on the third term thing, we should be, we should, we have to imagine that stuff like this could happen because everything we never imagined would happen has happened. I wouldn't lose sleep on this yet. When there's things like due process that aren't happening and all that stuff, there's more stuff to be outraged about.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah. And you're right. And that brings me to something I wanted to ask you about because you're a Midwestern guy and the economy means so much and there used to be this expression, and I'm sure from your days as a Republican, maybe you had this expression or you shared it and talked about it with your colleagues, that a president can't do a whole lot to the economy. That there's that old adage, there's just not much the president can do when it comes to the economy. But it seems as though the president can really fuck up the economy badly. And that is what we're learning right now. Apparently on Wednesday, Trump says the tariffs are coming Wednesday. That's what he says. Now, we don't know if that's what is actually going to take place, but he's calling it Liberation Day, which sounds like, I don't know, again, like, is this an Independence Day sequel, Part eight? You know, we try to can't get Will Smith, so we got somebody else. And as the Drudge Report puts it, White House gambles with the economy. And I hate to joke about this, but, like, honestly, he's playing with matches here, it seems to me with the economy, he really is.

[Adam Kinzinger]

And it's interesting because, yes, a president can't do a ton about the economy because you look at like, okay, if you want to change tax rates, that's a process. Right? You've got to put out a bill, whatever. But what they can do is inject optimism or inject pessimism. Right. You think back to the old Jimmy Carter when he talked about the malaise days. I think of Ronald Reagan, in my opinion, was very optimistic and a lot of the economy followed that. And so he can create. And obviously the economy is not even a real thing. It's just a way to measure complex human interactions. Right?

[Jim Acosta]

That's true.

[Adam Kinzinger]

All of a sudden, if a president convinces people that, you know, he's going to do something bad or something counter, and people start holding back on their money, that crashes an economy. And so the Big question is going to be when he does this, and this is what I'm watching for, Jim, is when he does this, are people going to turn against him or are they going to excuse it? I've seen some people already say, well, look, for what President Trump wants to do in the long term, we're gonna have to go through a little pain. I also know that Donald Trump's second superpower, besides his shamelessness, is this like fiction that under him the economy was humming and perfect. And if they start to feel that, is that going to have an impact? And that's what I'm going to be watching to see. And I think after, God forbid, if we go into a recession after that, I think we'll be able to look at the political tea leaves and say, is Donald Trump invincible or not? And that's going to be a big question.

[Jim Acosta]

That's a great point. And this brings me back to the office game thing, because he literally could have come into office, just inherited Biden's economy where the inflation metrics were heading in the right direction, declared victory and said, hey, look how great I am. Look what I did. Look what I did, Ma. And instead he's just hell bent on this cockamamie economic vision of his. It's just been discredited by so many people over the years. And I'm sure as a former Republican congressman yourself, you're probably more of a free trader type, maybe with some wrinkles attached to it. But, wow, I mean, to me, you know, this is the way that he's gone against Republican orthodoxy in this regard is fascinating to me, continues to be fascinating.

[Adam Kinzinger]

And it's fascinating that so many Republicans who five years ago would have told you that they are people that stand on moral principle have gone along with it. Look, here's the thing, like tariffs, to me, you can use them in a case like unfair trading practices with China. Right? Tariffs inflict damage on yourself, but of course inflicts damage on who you're tariffing. And you kind of use that to create pain, to create a fair environment. Right. I consider it like, it's like chemotherapy. When you have cancer, chemotherapy is destructive to the body. The hope is it's more destructive to the cancer cells. And that's when you use it. You don't use it against our best friend of the north, you know, you don't use it against the Europeans. But I ultimately think, Jim, and this is an interesting question, and people that know Trump's thinking even better than I say that he really believes that he really Believes they'll work. And he really believes that it's going to raise a ton of money. And I kind of wonder if he sees this as the way to plug a $35 trillion debt, which, by the way, we're never going to get out of. Maybe he just kind of insanely believes that this is going to work. I don't know, but it's crazy.

[Jim Acosta]

Well, and they're already talking about bailing out the farmers and so on. And speaking of the Midwest, I mean, bailing out the farmers is going to cost money. But speaking of the Midwest, Elon Musk, I've been calling these segments what the Musk, he's in Wisconsin. He's pumping millions of dollars into the state supreme court race. He's handing out million dollar checks to people. First it was, well, if you vote, then it was like, well, if you sign my petition, which is wink, wink, you know, just if you vote for the Republican guy, how is this legal? You ran in a lot of races. I mean, did you ever think about handing out million dollar checks? I mean, because I have to think inside of you. Adam is a. Is a very good, decent human being who wouldn't think of like going that much more over the speed limit, let alone handing out checks to voters.

[Adam Kinzinger]

Have I thought about it? Yeah. I've been like, Look, I need 100,000 votes. I got 2 million bucks. Let's see if everybody can take 20 bucks.

[Jim Acosta]

Exactly.

[Adam Kinzinger]

I would never do it. And this is the crazy thing. I think the problem is our campaign finance laws never took into account that something like this would happen. By the way, I'm pretty sure that the guy, that one of the guys that won the million dollar check was the college Republican head for Wisconsin.

[Jim Acosta]

I saw that. Some kid, right? Yeah. What's that all about?

[Adam Kinzinger]

Yeah, it's kind of a little iffy. Right.

[Jim Acosta]

And you get a lot of kegs for that, though. I mean. But anyway, you could throw a party.

[Adam Kinzinger]

You know, you could. But listen, I mean, it obviously comes down to what are Wisconsin's election laws. Illinois, for instance, has very loose election laws. Like if you're a corporation, you can write a big check to a candidate, which is very rare. And what he's trying to do at the end. Look, Wisconsin is very divided. It was the closest state in this presidential election. And obviously control of the Supreme Court is imperative. And it's also something that people are going to closely watch to determine does Musk have power or not. And so I think he's doubling down in that. But listen, and it's funny because I never would have thought I said this as a Republican. We have to have serious campaign finance reform. We have to limit the amount of money in there. And by the way, Jim, the founding fathers never intended for somebody worth half a trillion dollars to have any more input in the government than me or you or anybody watching here. And unfortunately, we're at a point now where we don't have a government that's going to do anything about it. And we've got a guy that's going to be the first trillionaire that got there from $38 billion of taxpayer handouts that's now telling us what we can or can't live without through this fake agency. Doge, it is sick. And if I was living in a different country, I'd be laughing at what was going on.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah, there's no question about it. And I've railed against Citizens United on this show. I think it is, it's obviously now a cancer in our system where it's just opened up the floodgates and somebody like the richest man in the world can do this. I'm very worried about it. The other thing I'm worried about is just the sheer incompetence of not just Elon Musk, but other people in the administration. There was the whole signal gate controversy that came out last week. You and I haven't had a chance to talk about that. Feel free to give me your thoughts on that. The other issue is, you know, I did want to get into Tulsi Gabbard, who was on that signal gate chat. You know, the question I've been asking over and over again is why didn't Tulsi Gabbard, why didn't Marco Rubio, why didn't John Ratcliffe, one of these guys, say, hey, we shouldn't be doing this on a signal chat? You know, I mean, it's, it's pretty remarkable. And I know it's week two and, you know, we move on to other stuff, but I'm still blown away by the stupidity, the burn after reading like stupidity and all this, it really is dumb.

[Adam Kinzinger]

And look, I talked to a former, I'll reveal who it is if I get too exact. But somebody that would have been in a chain like that, in a decision making chain right in the past. And I asked him, I said, is it normal for that many people to be brought in on a strike decision? And he said no. He goes, usually it would be. He's usually secretary of defense, secretary of state, NSA president and vice president. That's it Right. And then combatant commanders, not economic minister, not everybody has a designee that comes on as well. They have 19, 18, 19 people on that. And yeah, and I'm going to tell you, the Houthis have anti air capability. They've shown the ability already to shoot down MQ9s. They could shoot down manned aircraft. If they would have known what the strike package was, for instance, an F18 at this specific target, they could have put in theory the air defense in place to kill that pilot. And that's what we have to take very seriously. And the fact that none of those kids on that, on that chain realized that this was something that's wrong or had the courage to say something. Meanwhile Pete Hegseth is on there trying to impress everybody. That was what came out of that. Like this is a guy that feels like he's in over his head. And you can read that in it.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah. And Adam, you were a fighter pilot, correct? Am I getting that wrong? I mean you must feel that you feel this whole skin a little deeply in that regard as well. Because I mean when you're a fighter pilot up there and you are trying to carry out a mission and there's just so little room for error up there and it's a highly trained, highly skilled proposition that we're talking about here. And if you have in the back of your mind, well what if the bosses have screwed this up 10 ways to Sunday, that's not good. I just have to think that that's not good.

[Adam Kinzinger]

Right. And it's like when I was in Iraq, we were, we were against an insurgency that had shoulder launched surface to air capability, but not big stuff, not like mounted things. I never really thought I was at threat Yemen does they have the ability to shoot this stuff down? And I, you know, I've read in some things that some pilots are pissed off about it. I'm sure they are. And I look for the sake of the country, I hope these people have learned their lesson. But I don't think we as Americans should, should be like, okay, no harm, no foul, harm and foul. And again, let's keep in mind these are the people that are protecting our nation's secrets. Right. And the other important thing, Steve Witkoff was in Moscow.

[Jim Acosta]

Thank you.

[Adam Kinzinger]

Added to this.

[Jim Acosta]

Yes, thank you. And I brought this up last week and to me it is maybe the most astounding part of it because I remember on those potish trips going to China, they would take your phones away and take your laptops away and say you can't bring those in there because you're going to get hacked and put stuff in a steel box and everything. And it was, you know, so this just strikes me as either incredible hubris, stupidity, or both.

[Adam Kinzinger]

Yes, yes.

[Jim Acosta]

And, you know, like, the Russians, they're not our friends. Like, who are you kidding here, man? Like, when are they going to wake up? Maybe, maybe his stuff got, you know, to me, it's just incredible. But I do want to bring up Tulsi Gabbard because, and I know this got played out on social media a bit, and you weighed in on this, but she tweeted, per POTUS directive, I have revoked former President Biden security clearance, revoke clearances and access to classified information for Kamala Harris, Hillary Clinton, Liz Cheney, Adam Kinzinger, Fiona Hill, Alexander Vindman. So these are all the people. This is like, basically a list of the people living rent free. In his head is what's happening. Hillary Clinton. I've already reported on this. He's already revoked her security clearance multiple times, but he's apparently multiple in multiple cases. Revoked your security clearance, is that right?

[Adam Kinzinger]

Yeah, two weekends in a row. And I also want to point out to everybody, I don't have a security clearance anyway. I retired from the Air Force a year ago. You don't take. I had a top secret clearance through the Air Force. You don't take it with you. Okay.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah.

[Adam Kinzinger]

And I retired from Congress. Congress, your clearance is just by nature of your elected office. You don't take that with you either. So I jokingly say, like, next I'm going to find out they're taking away my World War II medals and my, you know, my Vietnam Purple Heart or whatever, like, great. Well, fine.

[Jim Acosta]

And, and, and if they do it infinity times and say, I'm rubber and you're glue and no backsies, does that make it final? Is that how it works?

[Adam Kinzinger]

I guess so. But here's the funny thing, Jim. I, I ultimately, the night I found out two weeks ago, the first time or the second time, I was, like, having a barbecue at my house with friends, and I realized, like, I'm here having a good time with friends, and Donald Trump is sitting in the Oval Office angry at me, tweeting like, my life is way better than his right now.

[Jim Acosta]

No kidding. That's right. And you don't have orange shit all over your face. That's the other thing, too. Or as I like, you know when I'm looking at shoes and I'm like, I like, you know, when you could pick the brown or the British Tan or the black? I'm like British tan. It's. Is that what, is that what I'm looking at here? British? Anyway, I don't, I don't. Should I be making joke? I don't know if I should be joking about that. He's the president. You're supposed to treat him with reverence anyway. No, but I mean, this Tulsi Gabbard thing, I guess she has to do this. I mean, you served with her in Congress. What the hell happened? Do we know what the hell happened there?

[Adam Kinzinger]

It's hard to tell. So I was friends with her, actually. We were very close until the day she went to Syria and met with Assad. And like for me, I can take political differences with somebody, but if you go and meet with a murderous dictator and like my number one issue from, you know, in kind of the mid aughts was the Syrian issue when she went and met with Assad. We had never talked since then and there was just something that happened where she, I don't know if she always had an affinity for strongmen. I don't know if it's that she saw that, you know, the Republican Party, she could be crazy and be there and she's so power hungry. Little known thing. I don't know if I've ever said this out loud before, but she once asked me when we were back in 2014 or something like, you ever think like you when I could run for president as a bipartisan ticket. And what that said to me is just she wants to be president at any cost. And so I think some of it she's, I think she's genuinely in, in like Russia's camp, but I think some of it is just she wants to be in power and will do anything to get there.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah, it's sort of like a bad episode of Veep or something like that. So, so this is interesting. So she once asked you if you wanted to run for president, like you were both the president or one would be vice president or something.

[Adam Kinzinger]

Yeah, we were talking. I forget what it was. Maybe I think we were coming into the 2016 election and, you know, probably neither of us were happy with our candidates. And she said, I said, I don't know if I brought it up or something about, you know, an independent party. And she goes, you and I should like run and we could have like a Democrat Republican ticket. Is that even possible? And I just kind of laughed at it and. But there was some seriousness in that. And of course, obviously it never happened and never could have. But what that said to me was, this is somebody that really, really wants to climb the ladder and will do anything to get there.

[Jim Acosta]

It's not a bad idea, though. And I'm sure people are going to be like, oh, what the hell are you talking about? There was this, wasn't there talk of like a John McCain, Joe Lieberman ticket at one point? And I don't know, maybe we're so far down the rabbit hole in Alice in Wonderland that the idea that you could get to put a Democrat and Republican together, it's just like fantasy land at this point. But what are your thoughts on this? Could we have an independent party ticket in 28? Could you see, I sort of feel like somebody could come out of the woodwork a more populist, not so ideological person to help us put the pieces back together again. What are your thoughts?

[Adam Kinzinger]

Look, I think it's possible. What I think is more likely as a conservative Democrat, or let's say a center right Democrat or a center left Republican and kind of creating a new coalition. Here's the problem with an independent. Okay, first off, we have unfortunately been jammed to believe that there's two sides to every issue, like abortion. People believe there's pro life and pro choice. There isn't. There's actually 100 different positions on abortion, 100 different positions on guns. Right. Stuff like that. And so people kind of default to one position. But the other problem is, let's say Jim Acosta ran for president as an independent. Okay. Let's say you get 40% with Tulsi Gabbard.

[Jim Acosta]

No, I'm just kidding. I wouldn't do that.

[Adam Kinzinger]

Let's say The Democrat gets 30, the Republican gets 30. You don't get 270 electoral votes even though you win. It goes to the House. The House votes for the Republican or Democrat. That's the problem is the way the electoral colleges.

[Jim Acosta]

That's right. Yeah. And I mean to me, but to me though, you could do something where you're putting forward more than just like policy positions on abortion or guns or I mean, to me, and I've talked about this on the show before, when Joe Biden left, and I know it's not popular to praise Joe Biden these days, but when he gave that speech warning about oligarchs and he talked about there needing to be term limits for Supreme Court justices, I was like, you know what, that makes a lot of sense. And the fact that you can put somebody on the Supreme Court for 50 years to be talk about something the founders did not intend, that is Some crazy shit that we're doing this back and forth now. Just. Okay. And not to say that some people, you know, in that age group, 40s and 50s, can't serve on the Supreme Court, but, like, it just feels like an arms race to me.

[Adam Kinzinger]

It does. And keep in mind, probably back when this was all done, I don't know what the average life expectancy was, like 55 or 60. So if somebody did serve on the Supreme Court, they died. What would today be? Young and. Yeah, I agree. And when you have. The other thing is when you have judges thinking strategically, like, I'm going to hang on until my party comes into power to retire, then you end up basically turning the Supreme Court into, in essence, a third legislative branch. And that's kind of what it's become.

[Jim Acosta]

And I know we're going to wrap up here shortly. I did want to ask you about Greenland because it kind of gets into the armed services, military, foreign policy realm that you're so good on. When J.D. vance goes to Greenland, and I need to read some of these quotes because it boggles my mind. I can't believe he says this stuff. This has to happen. The reason why it has to happen, I hate to say it, is because our friends in Denmark have not done their job in keeping this area safe. He went on to say, we just can't ignore the President's desires. That was a telling quote right there. So creepy and weird and very troubling all at the same time.

[Adam Kinzinger]

Yeah, it is. And you know, the weird thing I'm trying to wrestle with is I think Trump is an isolationist. I actually think he's a coward, honestly. I think he's cowardice. This is why he goes after smaller allies and not real enemies, by the way.

[Jim Acosta]

That's a good point.

[Adam Kinzinger]

But with Greenland, it's like, I kind of wonder, is this guy, like, a true nationalist, where nationalists get into power and they end up just trying to expand territory? Look, Greenland, I think Denmark, whatever. The president of Denmark just said, like, look, if the US wants to put more military bases on Greenland, nobody's stopping them.

[Jim Acosta]

That's right. There you go.

[Adam Kinzinger]

You could do it. We don't have to have ownership of the. Of this massive island. We can put more infantry there if we want to, or navy there. Nobody's stopping us. But the thing is, if this actually does come to a head, you're really going to have a NATO ally against a NATO ally. And this is why you see Vladimir Putin saying, I understand the US's position on this, because a, it justifies his position on Ukraine and battle. It also creates a conflict among NATO. And if that happens, NATO's done. And that's been Putin's goal the whole. His whole life.

[Jim Acosta]

And what's your estimation of J.D. vance? I mean, when he says this kind of stuff? I mean, they all just perform for the audience of one. It's kind of sad. It's. Stephen Miller was putting out tweets over the weekend talking about immigration, and there were cities that were conquered in the U.S. it's batshit. I mean, it is. I don't know. Can you put your finger on what is going on? Is it because Trump is so. He's just lost it to the extent that they have to communicate in those kinds of terms to reach that audience of one. Is that what it is? I mean, to me, that's kind of close to the target. I don't know.

[Adam Kinzinger]

I think so. Look, I mean, ultimately, I've always. The best example to me is it's a cult. And when you're in a cult, like the thing one of Trump's superpowers is, he'll welcome you back in a heartbeat. If I tweeted tomorrow, I was wrong. Donald Trump is amazing. I would be in the Oval Office in a week. Right. But you could be SecDef when you come back. Your job is to do everything he wants.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah.

[Adam Kinzinger]

And I'm going to tell you, as a member of Congress, more than Stephen Miller, more than even J.D. vance, what makes me sad is as a member of Congress that was elected to independently represent 700,000 people, every member of Congress does. To then make your job not doing what's in the best interest of those 700,000. But what's in the best interest of Donald Trump, to me, is so counter to the Constitution, it's not even funny. It's so counter to the Constitution. So we'll see.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah. Well, Adam, it's great to catch up with you. Great to talk to you. I really appreciate it. We should have not waited this long, but let's do it again if we can, as often as possible. But always good to talk to you, man. And what I like about where you're coming from these days, and it's where I come from, I think it's where I come from, too, is we just want America to be America. We want it to not be this place where. And I know. Cause you live in Illinois and you have drinking beer with your buddies. I see you on Instagram outside the garage talking to your buddies. And I'm sure some of Your buddies are Republican, and maybe they voted for Trump. And I just. We're not this country where everybody hates each other and wants to tear each other apart and rip each other's throats. Throats out. And I think that's where you're coming from. It's not so much an ideological or political thing. It's like, it's. It is kind of a cultural thing.

[Adam Kinzinger]

Yep, yep. Yeah. And, Jim, politics for me, used to be fun. I used to actually enjoy it. Now I'm doing it because I fear that my country is really at risk. I'd love to go back to having debates because they're fun again, not because it's truly existential.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah. All right. Good to see you, man. We'll keep the conversation going. Thanks, Adam. That's Adam Kingser, former congressman from Illinois. And just, you know, somebody was saying we're. We're bro.

[Michael Cohen]

And out.

[Jim Acosta]

I guess we were kind of broing out. That's. That's very true. But it was a great conversation, and Adam is really good on these foreign policy issues. I didn't want to let Signal Gate go. You know, there's a part of me that thinks Trump is talking about the third term shit because of the Signal Gate thing. I'm sure he must be so pissed about that, that they screwed that up so badly last week. And, you know, Adam understands some of this stuff very well. And also, being a Midwesterner, I wanted to get his take on the tariffs and Greenland and so on. I'm going to try to bring in Michael Cohen in the discussion. As everybody knows, I love Michael Mondays. Michael Mondays are always something I look forward to. It's just a hell of a lot of fun because, like Adam, but in a different way, Michael speaks the real English that Americans speak, being a good New Yorker that he is. And there's Michael. Michael, good to see you. It's Michael Monday. Welcome back. Good to see you, sir.

[Michael Cohen]

See you, my brother. Always. I wish to God that I can say that it was on wonderful circumstances that we each woke up today after a. For a new week. Right?

[Jim Acosta]

Yep.

[Michael Cohen]

Energized, excited, happy for our President, for our country, for ourselves, unfortunately. No, no, I know. Here we go again.

[Jim Acosta]

Here we go again. I know. And we're rolling the boulder back up the hill. I do enjoy the Michael Mondays because, you know, the more you and I talk, the more I feel like we're pretty much in sync on a lot of this stuff. But I am curious what you think is going on, because, you know, Trump's brain Better than most people, which, you know, I feel I should offer you my condolences when I say that. But when he talks about this third term stuff, I mean, the Constitution is very clear. The Constitution says no person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice. That's the 22nd Amendment. But, of course, Steve Bannon. I predict that some of this is coming out of Steve Bannon's sick mind. What is going on? What do you think? You don't think this is him joking around here or trolling people? You think this is serious?

[Michael Cohen]

No. In fact, in my substack that I put out this morning, April 2, when America goes bankrupt, I have a whole thing on it, you know, he is not joking. And you cannot sit back and just accept this as just some weird hyperbole. No, in fact, you know, when he says this, you need to take him at his word. Why? Because he said he was going to do it. This isn't supposed to be something that is all of a sudden out of the blue. It is not. He turned around and he said it early on, that he has every intention of, metaphorically speaking, rewriting the Constitution. The 22nd Amendment does not apply here. Why? Because. Let's share something with you, something that many years ago, when I was with Trump during 2015 and 2016, the very first campaign that he turned around and he said, and I've talked to you about this both on and off the air, Putin had a line that said, it doesn't matter who you vote for. All that matters is who's counting the vote. So you say, yeah, but he'd still have to do a constitutional amendment. Not necessarily. Right. So there are several different plausible options here for him. One, he could run as vice president with the understanding that if, hypothetically, they win, that Vance will then resign, he will elevate himself up to the presidency, and then maybe maga, Mike Johnson, or whoever would be speaker of the House would ultimately become the Vice President.

[Adam Kinzinger]

Or.

[Michael Cohen]

Or Trump would then maybe nominate Vice President Vance again to be vice president. They would just do a role swap. Now, I want to also remind our viewers, because we're about 10,000 shy, first and foremost, we need to be 100,000.

[Jim Acosta]

There you go. There you go.

[Michael Cohen]

You know, and then that'll just be, again, the beginning.

[Jim Acosta]

But. But I will ask you something. I want to hit the pause button because, Michael, when we talk about J.D. vance running in 2028, I think the question is going to be asked, because of this third term 22nd amendment conversation, that if J.D. vance runs for president 2028. He needs to be asked, sir, if you run, do you pledge not to make Donald Trump your vice president? Because that needs to be headed off at the pass. You know what?

[Adam Kinzinger]

I.

[Michael Cohen]

But, Jim, Jim. And they'll just lie, Jim. They're gonna say the same thing that the nominees for these various cabinet positions, they just lie. They're willing to lie to the American people. But I wanted to remind the folks that are with us right now, something that happened in Russia that is very similar to what Trump is talking about right now. You may remember Vladimir Putin was president for two terms, and the Russian constitution does not permit a third term under the same way that we have our 22nd amendment. Well, first of all, the language that's used in the 22nd Amendment, don't be shocked if they start to say, well, what does it mean elected?

[Jim Acosta]

Right.

[Michael Cohen]

And what does it. Does it mean two terms in a row? Or does it mean that you could stop it and start. Stop and start. And it's not two in a row. Again, these are things for the courts. But what Vladimir Putin did is he then turned around and he nominated to become president Medvedev, who ultimately became president of Russia. Why is this important? Because before leaving office, he passed some rule right then. I don't know if that would work here in America, but I suspect that it could. At least that's in their minds, that he would become the prime minister. And I remember prime minister, prime minister, for lack of a better term, trumps the president. And so he still had the presidential office here, for us would be the Oval Office. And all decisions are no longer made by the president of the country, but rather the prime minister. And when the four years passed, what did he do? He then Medvedev stepped down. They then did away with the whole concept of a prime minister. And ultimately, Putin passed a new rule that said that you could be president so long as everybody in the country wants for you. And you get that plurality, which goes back, Jim, to the statement I just made. Yeah, Putin's statement. It doesn't matter who you vote for. All that matters is who's counting the vote.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah. No, there's no question about it. And to me, they're going to try it. I mean, you know, this is what I was saying earlier. I think you and I have talked about this. I talked about this with Adam earlier. If he just starts running and he starts winning primaries, winning caucuses, he's going to dare the Supreme Court. He's going to say, listen, this is what the people want I'm sorry, but, you know, and the Democrats can take him to court and so on, but I tend to agree with you. This is something that might not be stoppable.

[Michael Cohen]

And he's pushing every boundary of the Constitution day in and day out. That's what his merry band of enablers are doing. They're allowing him to push the limits, to break or bend our Constitution for his own benefit, for their own benefit. It's why, like you see Lutnik sitting over there on Air Force One with this stupid ass grin on his face, laughing at things like reciprocal tariffs on the entire world. So now America is going to become an isolationist country. Let me be clear to all those that are with us now, we're at 10,000 people. We want 20,000. Why is that relevant? Why is it important? Because, my friends, let me be clear. The stuff that you buy at Costco and Walmart and online with Amazon and so on, you will not be buying anymore because something that's $10 will now be 50.

[Jim Acosta]

Well, and Trump said over the weekend.

[Michael Cohen]

We don't manufacture shit in this country.

[Jim Acosta]

Well, you're right. I mean, and Trump was saying over the weekend to Kristen Welker that what was the exact. He doesn't really care if the price of cars.

[Michael Cohen]

He doesn't care about the prices.

[Jim Acosta]

The price of cars go up. I mean, in what world is he living in? I mean, honestly, it is, you know, is it the gilded apartment of Trump Tower? Is that no matter what room he's in, that room is always in his mind? That's fine.

[Michael Cohen]

No, he's living in the billionaire mindset.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah.

[Michael Cohen]

It doesn't matter to them if something costs a dollar or $100. It doesn't matter if the, if the item that you are buying is a dollar or a thousand dollars. The billionaire mindset is they don't give a shit because they don't, because they have so much money that they can't spend it in a thousand lifetimes. Well, especially, especially when you're talking about not even the person with 1 billion. I mean, Trump, Trump made about $8 billion since he became President elect. And I want our, I want our viewers to stop for a second. Stop. No texting, no heart. Stop for one second. And I want you to think about what I just said. This guy made $8 billion in five months since becoming President elect. And if that's not enough to scare the shit out of you, I'm not sure what will.

[Jim Acosta]

Y. Well, and that's the problem is what people elected back in November of 2024 was an oligarchy. I mean, they voted for this. They may not have done it willingly or wittingly, but they voted for it. And when you have Scott Bessant saying, oh, people aren't about getting cheap TVs, again, what world is he living in? Lots of people like cheap TVs.

[Michael Cohen]

How when you hear talking about his.

[Jim Acosta]

Mother in law, his mother in law.

[Michael Cohen]

At 94 not getting her Social Security. Don't worry.

[Jim Acosta]

Don't worry. Give me a break. These people are not living in the real world. So it brings me back to the conversation about the third term, Michael, because in addition to Signal Gate just showing off the sheer incompetence of multiple senior administration officials, including the ones that were supposed to have some semblance of fear, of confidence in, like, Marco Rubio and so on, and I know folks will say, well, he's just sold his soul, there's no coming back. That may be the case, but I thought he was a competent guy. Why would he be on a signal chat? You add that level of incompetence with the heartlessness being uttered by top administration officials, including Trump, do we even need to worry about 2028? It sounds like he's. I mean, he's. He's kind of already hosed as it is. Or. You don't think so? What do you think?

[Michael Cohen]

Well, I'll tell you what I think on that again, like what I wrote into, you know, my, my substack here when we wake up.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah.

[Michael Cohen]

Every single one of us knows that there's going to be a fire hose of insanity, of chaos.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah.

[Michael Cohen]

And why are they doing this? Why are they doing this?

[Jim Acosta]

Oh, this was a good substack. Yeah. Lay this out.

[Michael Cohen]

They're doing this to make us tired.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah.

[Michael Cohen]

It's part of their plan. It's chaos, it's confusion. It is designed, Jim, to make us numb. You see, as I wrote, when you're constantly on edge, you're trying to keep up, you become desensitized.

[Jim Acosta]

Right?

[Michael Cohen]

The unthinkable, the insane, the ridiculous. The dystopian becomes the everyday. And what do you do when something outrageous like what's happening with these, These foreign students with student visas.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah.

[Michael Cohen]

These outrageous things getting swept up off the street. You shrug your shoulders and you're like, oh. Oh, my God. Right? You sigh at the illegal, you yawn at the immoral. And you know what? If you do that, that's when he wins. Bullshit. Bullshit. What you do is you stay. You stay on message, you stay engaged, vigilant, you stay in the fight. The second that we. We allow the fight to cause us fatigue, the time at any moment, that's where they went. That we fail to recognize the chaos that this smoke screen is up and designed to do.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah.

[Michael Cohen]

That's when he wins, and that's when they own us.

[Jim Acosta]

And I'm going to say, Michael, because I liked your sub stack, I pulled a quote from it. This is what Michael Cohen wrote in his substack, Autocracy by Exhaustion, which is a great headline. It says, michael says this. The goal isn't to win hearts and minds. It's to break spirits, to make you so tired, so overwhelmed that you stop caring. To me, that. That hits the nail right on the head, and it's sort of that flood the zone with mentality that Steve Bannon brought to the table back in 2016. And I think that's what they're doing now with Elon Musk and Doge and everything else.

[Michael Cohen]

But here's the thing. Yeah, here's the thing. Jim Acosta, Michael Cohen, we will not let you just cower. We will not let you step away and, you know, disengage from this fight. We will constantly, whether it's Michael Mondays or if I come on. Or he comes on mine or he's doing with somebody else, like an Adam Kinzinger. Right. It.

[Jim Acosta]

Or a live town hall.

[Michael Cohen]

Or the town hall. By the way, I just spoke to Don Lemon, and Don Lemon is in as. Oh, yes, Jamie Raskin said he's in. Don Lemon.

[Jim Acosta]

Okay.

[Michael Cohen]

We have, you know, we have a whole bunch of other, you know, individuals who intend to being a part there. It looks like it's going to be more than what we even thought. We will not allow people to get tired. We will not allow the fatigue to cripple. To cripple you and just say, fuck it. I'm throwing my hands up. I've had enough. Impossible. Because in all fairness, democracy is worth protecting. Think about all the veterans that have laid down their lives, the ultimate sacrifice so that, Jim, you and I can engage on a substack like this with our thousand followers.

[Jim Acosta]

That's exactly right. And, Michael, you hit the nail right on the head because, you know, you want to talk about sacrifice. We have not begun to sacrifice like previous generations have sacrificed for this country. And the beautiful thing about what you and I are able to do on substack, just to do a quick little tangent here, is we bring the people into the process. When you see the messages at the bottom of the screen, these are people who Want to get so engaged that they subscribe and they say, you know what? I want to do it to a point where I can make my comments too and express the feelings that I'm having. You And I can't get that on TV shows and that kind of thing. You can really only do that right here, which is the beautiful thing about it. But you brought up the town hall, which I love you and I have been talking about this for some time. And as I've been cautioning folks out there, takes a little while to put the pieces of the puzzle together. We want to do this right, want it to look good, want to get some good people involved. And Michael, it sounds like, you know, we might be onto something here. We might be cooking here.

[Michael Cohen]

So mid, mid April, I have gotten from the owner who's a friend of mine, it's an off Broadway theater. It's not so much about, obviously the number of seats. I think there's 100 and something seats, seats or something like that in this theater. But it's going to be live streamed and all of that information will come to you, our substack subscribers, first. So you will know and you will be able to watch. And we have now, Jim and I have prepared a list of individuals, we're working on it, members of Congress, you know, spokes people, you know, people who were on television, you know, because Jim is right, like msnbc. Why do you not see me on there? Or cnn? They don't want me on anymore.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah, but no, but it's about democratizing, democratizing communication, democratizing getting information out there. And you and I, when we talk about this stuff, we're talking about what's in the news. We're giving people information. I think it's a worthwhile endeavor. But at the same time, people can get involved and that's what makes it great too. Mike, I don't want to go on and on, on just that because there's so much in the news right now. I mean, the other thing that we've got to talk about is there are some elections that are coming up tomorrow. And not only is there the Supreme Court race, state supreme Court race in Wisconsin, I read in the New York Times that Trump and his people are starting to worry about Michael Waltz's old seat in Florida, which is a huge Trump district. What is happening, Michael, when they're worried about places like Florida? There was a state Senate race last week that went to a Democrat in a Republican district that Trump won by some 20 points or something like that in 2024 things are happening out there.

[Michael Cohen]

So what? So I can tell you exactly what they're thinking.

[Jim Acosta]

Tell me.

[Michael Cohen]

What you're thinking is, yeah, Elise Stefanik, I know that I nominated you to be head of the President of the United nations and so on. Unfortunately, I'm not going to risk losing the House because you want this nomination. So continue to be the enabler, continue to be the cheerleader for this movement. Stay in the House. I'll figure something out for you down the road. But right now we can't afford to even have a possibility of losing the seat. Let me tell you, even in these districts like where you said Trump won by 20 to 30 points.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah.

[Michael Cohen]

Right. Now those races are exceedingly, exceedingly close. And there's a reason why. The reason why that they're close is because if you're a veteran, right, you're fucking pissed. What are you pissed about? You pissed that there's over 100,000 VA workers that are now being fired? If you're a teacher, the entire dismantling of the doe, if you're part of Health and Human Services, you're sitting in your listening to the nonsense about RFK Jr and now with the influx and the rising, unbelievable of measles and so on, and the increase now in the number of cases report in America on something that we thought we finished, which was polio, all of this stupidity. If, and I can go on and on in the very on and on. If you are a, if you are somebody of age and you are collecting Social Security.

[Jim Acosta]

Right, that's exactly it.

[Michael Cohen]

Chopping block. There's a lot of anger into what this group has been doing and they are, they are very concerned because remember, it's like a three person differential in the House. If the House switches and it goes from Republican to Democrat, all of this shit goes away. Yeah, a bunch of this shit goes away. He no longer then controls the legislative branch.

[Jim Acosta]

Well, and let me tell you something, at that point, if, if somehow Hakeem Jeffries becomes the speaker of the House, all of those gavels have to be passed from the Republican to the Democrat. And you're talking about hearings. We can start having hearings. You Wanna talk about HHS, RFK Jr. All the wackos that you're putting in charge of vaccine research and so on. You mentioned Social Security. I will tell you the one thing that is probably by and large driving a lot of the rage at these town hall meetings and in these districts that Trump is all afraid of is Social Security. If you have elderly people going down to Their local Social Security office. Office. Trying to figure out if they're going to get their checks and so on because of these Doge cuts. That is. You are, you are playing with a, a Chernobyl, a political Chernobyl that is going to blow up in your face.

[Michael Cohen]

No, really, what you're playing is Russian roulette with a barrel that is filled on each and every one of the slots. I mean, that's what, that's what you do. Well, there's that too, you know, Unless you have Howard Lutnick is a son in law who's a billionaire, or you have a son in law who is. Or a daughter who's is a billionaire, you know, other than that, you're fucked. And you know what? These people don't want to not be able to take their insulin because of Doge cuts, by the way. You want to start Doge cutting? How about. Let's start with the entertainment factor to our president. Now, I understand he needs a little bit of downtime. I get it. I know him so well. I know I'm over 15. I worked for him for a decade and a half. He needs his downtime, but not at the cost of about $25 million so far to date. In golf outings, he's always talking shit about.

[Jim Acosta]

He was talking shit about Biden playing golf and going to the beach, Obama playing golf. He talks shit about that. He plays golf. He should be. I mean, more than they do on the PGA Tour.

[Michael Cohen]

Yeah, well, that's true. And you know what? People are tired of it. And that's just, that's just some of it. I mean, we can break it down. The Muslim community, Pennsylvania, Michigan, all around the country. Did Trump do anything right now to end this? Ukraine, I'm sorry, the Israel, Hamas war, or if you are Russian, American or anything, Disney doing anything within which to put an end, like he said in 24 hours to the Russia, Ukraine conflict. No, now he's fighting with Putin too. He's fighting with Zelensky.

[Adam Kinzinger]

Yeah.

[Jim Acosta]

Do you buy, do you buy that when he says, I'm so glad you brought that up. Do you buy when he says, oh, I'm pissed about Vladimir Putin? He said, apparently said that to Kristen Welker. He said he's getting angry with Vladimir. I thought that was horse crap. I didn't buy that for a second.

[Michael Cohen]

No, no, no, no, it's real. What he's doing is he's sending a message to the Kremlin without having to pick up a phone call, without having to pick up the phone and make a phone call, because that phone call and the entire message will be recorded and then it'll ultimately get logged in down the road with the, you know, with it, with nara, the National Archives, which he does not want. So he is sending a, a message.

[Jim Acosta]

He's sending a signal that.

[Michael Cohen]

A signal, exactly. It's like the bat signal.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah, well, you know, I, to me, I just, I get to a point now where I just don't know if I believe anything that he says. Like he says, Wednesday's Liberation Day, he's going to put these tariffs out there on Wednesday. I have to think between now and Wednesday, he's going to unravel. He's going to do something. There's going to be some story in the, in the CNBC or something like that Tuesday night that says, oh, the tariffs are going to be tailored to this or they're not going to be as widespread. It's always. The boy who cried wolf is always bullshit. I just, I don't believe it when he says Wednesday is Liberation Day.

[Michael Cohen]

Maybe I'll be wrong in my substance that I put out this morning, April 2, when America goes bankrupt. I'm not joking when I said brace yourself.

[Jim Acosta]

Right, yeah.

[Michael Cohen]

April 2, or as Trump calls it, right, grandly declares it, it's D Day, it's Liberation Day. Right. That it's sort of like taking a financial swan dive without a parachute. I mean, you know what he's talking about again, because it's not just China, it's not just Mexico, it's not just Canada, it's not just the entire eu, Right. Who he declares are cheaters. Somewhere along the line, everybody seems to be cheating America. But here's the crazy thing, Jim, and it's what I want our followers to understand the most. He's fucking lying to you. How do we know that there's no cheaters out there, that America's not stupid and getting ripped off by? We have the greatest economy in the world by two and a half times, which our economy is two and a half times bigger than that of China's.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah, yeah. No, and I was saying this earlier. You know, he could have just come into office. Inflation was heading in a trajectory where, where it might have been, okay, in about six months or so, the Fed would have continued to lower interest rates, which would have helped the housing market and mortgage lenders and people who are trying to get mortgages and so on. And instead he's just, he's fakocted the whole thing up. And now, you know, inflation is heading in the wrong direction again. The Fed's not so sure about the interest rates. The stock market's freaked out, it's lost, you know, 4 or 5,000.

[Michael Cohen]

Numbers are bad. The consumer, it's incredible.

[Jim Acosta]

He could have just sat there and done nothing and then like you would have maybe observed Michael and just declared victory. I mean, I think he would have just. But he just, he's, he's hell bent on this tariff thing.

[Michael Cohen]

Yeah. And for whatever the reason might be, 100%, he's trying to burn down the country. And you say to yourself, but why? Why? Again, it goes right back to what we started talking about to make you numb. Because the more that they throw at us, the more of the nonsense that they keep trying to drown us in, the more that we just want to throw our hands up and capitulate. And that he wants, by the way, with the eu, it's what he wants from Canada, it's what he wants from Zelinsky. He wants total capitulation. It's like, Jim, I say, take off your glasses. You're like, I won't be able to see.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah.

[Michael Cohen]

I said, take off your glasses. Take off your glasses. Him. Next thing you know, they beg you, tag you, they throw you in the back of a Suburban and they ship you off, you know, to Guantanamo. They ship you off to some Panama.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah.

[Michael Cohen]

Or like what they just did to this student at, at.

[Jim Acosta]

Unreal. Unreal.

[Michael Cohen]

Even after a judge turned around and said, you may not take her out of the state of Massachusetts before they even read it, they shipped off to Louisiana.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah. Now we're at a place now where they, they can literally disappear people if they're some kind of questionable immigration status. And it's, it's freaking frightening because at some point they're going to try to make the jump. That's my concern to folks who are here. I mean, you know, I hate to say that, but folks who are here legally have citizenship. I mean, it just, it just bothers me to no end.

[Michael Cohen]

They will do it to anyone that Trump deems a threat. Illegal protesting, a critic, and so on. And how do I know this to be factually accurate? Because they fucking did it to me. And I've been yelling on every television station I know, every journalist for the last six plus years. If they can do it to me, rest assured, I was the litmus test. They will come back and do it to you. And you could take that to the bank.

[Jim Acosta]

Michael, I always. Great. Greatly appreciate our time together. Love to, love to do this every Monday. That's why we call it Michael Mondays. Let's get the town hall thing going and to a point where we can start putting out some. Some. Some promos.

[Michael Cohen]

You know, I just need to speak to your producers so that we can actually figure out how to make sure it's properly live streamed. I have a whole bunch of people that I've been calling. They're all in. Everyone is in. Jim, you know why everyone is in? Because everyone is nervous, and everyone wants to be a part.

[Jim Acosta]

People want to do something, tell you.

[Michael Cohen]

How each and every one of you can be a part of this.

[Jim Acosta]

That's it. Exactly.

[Michael Cohen]

Take Jim Acosta's show, take Michael Cohen's show, take our substacks and share it with a friend. Share it with 1, 2 friends and make sure that for this town hall that you are all there joining us so that we can make sure that the midterm elections and these special elections go the right way.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah, well, we got to keep people energized. You got to keep people engaged. And I've said it once, a thousand times, a billion times. I'll say it again. I'm. I'm much more concerned about Trump depression syndrome than anything that folks call Trump derangement syndrome. You can't get down in the dumps. You can't succumb to this kind of stuff. That's why Michael wrote that terrific substack autocracy by exhaustion. You can't get exhausted, folks. Yeah, you throw your hands up, shrug your shoulders, as Michael was saying earlier, about certain things. But we can't give in. We can't give in. We can't give in. Michael, great to see you, my friend.

[Michael Cohen]

Great to see you.

[Jim Acosta]

Thank you, buddy. Brother, thanks a lot. Great. The great Michael Cohen. Always love talking to Michael Cohen. We've made Michael Mondays a thing, which is something I'm damn proud of on this show and something else I'm damn proud of. The New York Times did a whole thing about this show and some of the other shows that Don Lemon and Joy Reed are. Are. Are bringing over to Substack. And, you know, honestly, it's just a beautiful thing to see folks from different walks of life coming to substack because of this special sauce that they've created here where folks like me and folks like Michael Cohen can come to you, just pour our heart out, pour our brains out, bring you news and information, and then let you get involved in the process by weighing in and giving us your thoughts and your comments. Because sometimes I see somebody will make their comment about Trump wanting a third term. And then somebody will weigh in on that and they're sort of having their own conversation while I'm over here talking. But I always enjoy that. And the New York Times did a piece about that and if you get a chance to take a look at it, it's great. To me, it's a testament to what the folks at Substack have been able to put together here. It's a testament to you, the View, the viewer, the subscriber, the folks who are out there caring about this stuff, paying attention to this stuff. The folks who have helped me with this program so far, like my executive producer, Matt, and just all the, the wonderful folks out there who have been supporting this. I don't want to let everybody go just yet because I did want to. Let me take a little sip from my Duke mug. I did want to say something and I, I've been torn over this because, and, and by the way, 12, 000 people watching right now. Thank you so much everybody for, for tuning in and a lot more View this after the recording goes into the, into the network and everything else. But I, I've been torn over whether to talk about this last subject before I go today, but I feel like I have to do it. It's sort of from the Dear Leader Files, the occasional segment that I do on the show from time to time. It's, it's, it's about the Trump White House screwing with the White House press corps, folks who are near and dear to my heart. The White House Correspondents association. Over the weekend, you might have seen that the White House Correspondents association canceled on a comedian named Amber Ruffin, who is a very talented comedian. They pulled her off of the White House Correspondents dinner hosting duties after Taylor Tyler, whatever his name is over at the White House complained about her because she said some things that, that they didn't like over there. She made some comments.

[Michael Cohen]

I.

[Jim Acosta]

Who, who, who do you think you are, honestly, first of all. And so it's okay for Donald Trump to call people the enemy of the people. It's okay for him to talk about the enemy from within. It's okay for him to talk about people in the most derogatory terms, to mock disabled people, to talk about grabbing women by their private parts. And all of a sudden the people at the White House are offended by something a comedian says. Give me a break. Honestly, Give me a break. How fragile are you, Taylor Tyler, whatever your name is? What a snowflake, Honestly, can you please just grow up? Honestly, you and Caroline, I mean, who are these people that they put in the White House press office over there? Grow up. And, you know, to me, to cancel a comedian because the White House doesn't like what she has to say, Isn't that what the First Amendment is all about? Isn't that what they're supposed to be celebrating at the White House Correspondents Dinner? And so I, I have to say, and I love my friends in the White House press corps over there. I am, I have to tell you how terribly disappointed I am that they canceled on Amber. And I don't know Amber. I, I find her to be a very funny comedian. But it, it makes me worry that maybe this White House correspondence dinner is just something that, that should just go away for now. Not, maybe not permanently, but maybe for now. Should we be having a dinner with a President of the United States or administration officials who work for a President of the United States who calls people the enemy, who calls the press the enemy of the people? Why in God's name are we having a dinner with people who work for somebody like that? And Caroline Levitt goes into the White House briefing room and attacks reporters on a daily basis. I'll tell you what, I don't want to have a dinner with those folks. Screw that. No way. No thank you. And it just pisses me off to no end. And apparently there are reports in Axios that the Trump administration wants to take over seat assignments in the White House briefing room. So if you watch the White House briefings and you have the network people in the front, and then you have Washington Post, New York Times, Wall Street Journal behind them, and then it goes back. First of all, it's silliness that the White House even wants to monkey around with that. I mean, you know, don't you have more important things to do, like not discuss, not disclosing attack plans on signal. Don't you have more important things to do, like maybe getting your act together on these tariffs so you don't drive the economy off into a ditch? Don't you have more important things to do, Donald Trump, than screwing around with who sits where in the White House briefing room? What a snowflake. Who are these people? They're a bunch of crybabies. They're a bunch of snowflakes. And it's just a bunch of the press. Let me just tell you what the press is. We're just a bunch of reporters asking questions. That's it. Bunch of reporters asking questions. And Donald Trump is so fragile. He is such a delicate flower. He is Such a snowflake that you can't ask questions of what he's doing in the White House briefing room or in the Oval Office. You can't point out the inconsistencies or the lies that he tells all the time, time and time again. And because of that, they want to take over the White House briefing room. They kick out the Associated Press. They do all of these things to screw with the press. And I'm just wondering to my friends in the press why you don't take more collective action, act collectively, think of a way to send the message that you're just not going to deal with this bullshit anymore. My advice has been, and I'm going to continue to repeat this advice, that you should not send the photographers into the Oval Office and take his pictures. Send the photographers over to Joint Base Andrews and take his pictures going off up and down Air Force One. That's what he really cares about when it comes to being president. He really just wants to have his picture taken. That's what he cares about. Folks, I'm telling you, I know this man. I've covered him. He cares about us going in there into the Oval Office so he can, he can do his. This thing. And yes, I'll take that question. That's what he wants to do. So if you deprive that of him from him. I've been going an hour now. Maybe my grammar's not all there anymore. If you take that away from him, then maybe he's going to have some thought as to whether or not he should continue to screw with the press. And somebody just made the comment, do not obey in advance. That is exactly what I'm talking about here. Do not obey in advance. And it goes back to what I said. What is it, a couple of months now? It is never a good time to bow down to a tyrant. It is never a good time to bow down to a dictator. It is never a good time to bow down. That goes for just about any walk of life here in this country. And that goes for the press. Do not bow down to him. He is not in charge of you. He is not in charge of the press, despite what he thinks it's time to show Donald Trump who he works for. He works for the people. He works for the people of this country. I want to thank Adam Kinzinger for coming on today. I want to thank Michael Cohen. Thanks for listening. A few extra minutes for me to talk about the situation over at the White House with the press corps. I, I thought, I thought deeply about this over the weekend as to whether I wanted to weigh in on this. I it bothers me to no end that they are screwing with my friends over there. It's time to stand up. It's time to stand up and be counted. Even if it means a dinner that may not happen, you can still get those scholarships to those kids could still do it. But Donald Trump works for the people, not the other way around. On that. Thanks for watching. Still reporting from Washington, I'm Jim Acosta. Have a good evening, everybody. Bye.