← The Jim Acosta Show
The Jim Acosta Show
Gen-Z congressional candidate Deja Foxx, Olivia Troye and former DOJ pardon attorney Liz Oyer
00:59:28
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- [00:00]
Jim Acosta
Hey, welcome everybody, to the Jim Acosta Show. It is Wednesday and apparently black smoke was seen rising from the Vatican conclave today as the Catholic Church has yet to select a new pope. But we are still seeing the orange smoke coming out of the White House here in Washington, where it feels like Trump has to be smoking something. Ladies and gentlemen, Trump on Truth Social said earlier today he still wants to do away with the Constitution and due process, saying this, quote, our court system is not letting me do the job I was elected to do. Activist judges must let the Trump administration deport murderers and other criminals who have come into our country illegally without delay, he said. I mean, my question is, who elected Donald Trump to do away with due process in the Constitution? But the American people are pushing back. We have seen the town halls, the rallies and the marches and Gen Z is very much leading that push back. And that's why I am very excited to speak with my next guest. My first guest today on the Jim Acosta Show, Deja Fox, who is running for Congress in Arizona. Deja, it's great to see you. And this is for Raul Griav, former congressional seat. He passed away. So now that seat is open and you're running for us for all of this. Tell us about it.
- [01:11]
Deja Fox
That's correct. My name is Deja Fox and I'm running in a special election out here in Arizona's 7th congressional district. We have 60 something days until our primary July 15th. But if elected, I would be the first woman of my generation, Gen Z, in Congress. And I'm brought to this work. You know, I'm 25, which was the first final qualification to do this run. But I've been in this work for a decade as an activist for better sex education, for birth control access and abortion rights. And so I'm not new to this work, but I am new to the electoral side and I intend to bring an activist spirit into this seat.
- [01:49]
Jim Acosta
Yeah. And I want to talk about all these issues. I do want to read a little bit from Teen Vogue. And for people out there who are saying Jim's going to read from Teen Vogue, yes, I'm going to read from Teen Vogue. It says Deja Fox doesn't call herself optimistic. Although the 25 year old activist began telling the world as a teenager that she intended to become president of the United States, you go, Deja. The 2024 election was a punch in the gut. Fox found she no longer had faith in many older elected officials. She had spent her career uplifting, lobbying or critiquing on behalf of Gen Z. Now Fox is running for Congress in her home state of Arizona. It's interesting what you say there, that you sort of lost faith in some of the older elected officials. I mean, a lot of people have been talk about this, and this is not to run down folks who are older. I mean, I'm older. I'm Gen X. I used to think that was young. It's not as young as it used to be. But what you're. I think what you're saying is it's, as John Kennedy once put it, it's time to pass the torch to a new generation of leadership in this country. I think that that. And I think that that's just fine to say.
- [02:47]
Deja Fox
Yeah. You know, and I think the same. I am someone who, like I said, for the last decade, which is essentially how long Donald Trump has been running for president, if you can believe it or not, has been on the other side of power, right. Fighting for reproductive rights. But I've also worked the behind the scenes of campaigns. At 19 years old, I was one of the youngest presidential staffers in history. I worked for Kamala Harris, I did in surrogate strategy full time as a digital strategist out of her headquarters on her first presidential run. And then come 2024, I worked the other side of that. I was a surrogate and a content creator on behalf of that campaign. I spoke at the DNC and highlighted issues that young people were facing. Right. Cost of living, reproductive rights, the climate crisis, student debt. But you know, when this seat opened up, which was unexpected, as you noted, it opened because of the passing of my member of Congress. Right. I had to ask myself the question, can I in good faith continue to do that work of supporting causes and candidates in this party behind the scenes and in front of the camera? And if I do not give people someone that they can get excited about. Right. I think we have experienced so much heartbreak as a generation.
- [04:02]
Liz Oyer
Right.
- [04:02]
Deja Fox
I think about the elections Gen Z has weathered. Right? Presidential elections.
- [04:07]
Jim Acosta
Oh, yeah.
- [04:08]
Deja Fox
We have yet to give. Give young people the thing that they can feel is their political home in this party. And that's why in 2024, we lost them not only to apathy, but to the other side. And the solution, you know, is not to tap strategists like me every four years and ask, please, please, how do we get young people involved? It is platform young people like me with true positions of leadership.
- [04:33]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, you have to have a seat at the table. There's no question about it. And I remember when I was in my late teens, early 20s, Bill Clinton ran for president. It felt like a new generation had come on, on board. And then in my mid-30s, Barack Obama became president. And I think that's what young people are looking for now. They're seeing this, what is it going to be, 79 in July? You know, he wants a big military parade for himself in D.C. on his birthday. I mean, yeah, I guess it coincides with the army's anniversary, but, you know, he just wants a big military parade like Kim Jong Un. And, you know, my whole thing with this deja is that your generation deserves better than this. And I, you know, I, for the life of me, I just, you know, I can't understand how we live in a world right now where Roe vs. Wade no longer exists, where young people are facing a climate catastrophe in the making. I mean, we're just on, on so many different fronts. Elections are being undermined in this country, voting rights are being taken away. We're just, we're, we're screwing you guys. And I, it pisses me off. I'm sorry. I know I usually curse like this later in the week, but I need.
- [05:43]
Deja Fox
To hear, right, that we need to hear. And it's what we're hearing on the doors. You know, we have knocked hundreds of doors here in Arizona. And you know, I want to share two things. One that I think is make people in this chat feel hopeful about a candidacy like ours and hopefully encourage you to come join us over on our substack follow along. Right. Is that just last Friday we launched a canvas and three people I had never met showed up. They told us they found us on TikTok, that they had never knocked doors for a political candidate before, but that they were excited about us and that they were tired of just critiquing things. They wanted to help build something better. And I cannot under, or I can't overstate how difficult it is to move people from that sense of hopelessness that we were feeling after, or especially young people, right, who have only seen Donald Trump running for president, to a sense of action and excitement. And, you know, we're seeing that same thing at the doors. The truth is, in a special election like ours, most people don't even know that it's happening yet. Right? Us in political world, we're like 60 something days and running around, right? But for the July feels very far away. And so when we knock the doors and we start talking to them about our candidacy, right, what it means for someone like me who was raised by a single mom in section 8, housing and on SNAP benefits and Medicaid to get into this fight because it's personal and that they have the opportunity with their vote, if they just show up in July and check a box, to make history, to elect the first woman of my generation, Gen Z, which notably, you know, as you said, is the first generation of women to have less rights than their mother, which is inherently a unique perspective to bring to power, that they see that opportunity to make history and they get excited about politics. And so when we're the long term strategy that's gonna get us out of this mess, right, as Gen Z must, because this is the party we will inherit, it has to be with young people at the center, right? Not just as the spokespeople, but really as the ones developing and crafting the messaging and in the halls of power.
- [07:45]
Jim Acosta
And you know, one of the things I've noticed is Gen Z has really turned on Trump. According to recent polls, roughly 2/3 disapprove of his performance. It may be worse than that depending on the poll you're looking at. And that is down sharply from what, 47% in that age group supported him in the 2024 election. Have you been able to get to the bottom of Deja? Because you and I talked at the dnc, we had a conversation about this at that time and there were a lot of hopes in Kamala's campaign that Gen Z was really going to deliver the election for her. And that just did not come to pass. Even though she was going viral with the coconut tree and you know, within the context and all, I mean, all of those things that she was, she was doing so well during that campaign. Do you know what happened? Why did the bottom fall out? What's going on?
- [08:25]
Deja Fox
I mean, in part it has to do with, you know, when I look back on the 2024 election, we can get into all the nitty gritty, but in reality it was a tough election. It was a little over a hundred days. An impossible race, right, to run against a man who'd been running for president for nine years time. And a bit of an impossible candidate, right? A first time a woman who would have made first in so many ways. And so, you know, we have to look at the structures at play. And when we ask ourselves, why have young people not taken up leadership, right? Why are young people underrepresented? I also want to encourage us not to just look at all the likes and the comments, right, and the views, but really to get at the structural issues. And so, you know, look at our campaign As a case study, we have amassed over 4 million views organically, not with a single dollar of paid behind them in a special election primary in the middle of summer in Arizona. That is unprecedented.
- [09:23]
Jim Acosta
Wow.
- [09:24]
Deja Fox
But we have to understand that we are up against, in my race in particular, big money on one side and a legacy last name on the other. And so what we have as our strategic advantage as young people taking up this fight, a new generation, is we have scale. We have these tools where we could reach anyone, anywhere, anytime, at scale. Scale, without between us. Right. You know, and so we have this opportunity, but we have to prove case to people that if everybody who watched our videos pitched in $1, we would be beyond our fundraising goal. Right. We would be five, six times past it. But we, we still have to, as a collective, you know, get used to the social media landscape that it to just watch and like and click. We need to be investing in the candidates that we want to see in office.
- [10:16]
Jim Acosta
Right.
- [10:16]
Deja Fox
We have action and in our campaign we're seeing that. And I want to encourage everybody, you know, to follow along with our campaign. We are doing things differently because we have to. Right. I don't have some professional, or rather I don't have a deep pockets or the best Rolodex. We have scale. We have you. So if everybody pitched in at scale and believed in their collective power, we would have an entirely different kind of leadership at this moment.
- [10:43]
Jim Acosta
And it's all about people power. And we should note, somebody has asked the question, how old are you? You're 25.
- [10:50]
Deja Fox
I'm 25.
- [10:51]
Jim Acosta
You are eligible to run.
- [10:53]
Deja Fox
We hosted our very first fundraiser here in Arizona for my 25th birthday party. But like I said, I've been at this for a decade, but I do.
- [11:05]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, I do want to talk about, because you mentioned videos and I watched your, your TikTok video just a short while ago. And for folks who want to check this out after Deja is over or after the show's over, you can wait till the end of the show. Of course. It's a, it's a, it's a wonderful video and it related to me, it spoke to me. You talk about being a free lunch kid, how you were raised by a single mom, you experience homelessness as your mother struggled with substance abuse. There's so many people who can relate to these things out there who aren't being spoken to. And it's refreshing to hear somebody from your generation, a 25 year old, talk about this. And I mean, you were raised by a single mom. I was Raised by a single mom. I mean that when I, when I saw that, I got a little, I got, got to admit, you know, I got a little misty eyed watching it because it reminded me of like myself. And you know, people don't understand what it's like to go through that kind of an upbringing. And my mom is one of my heroes. I mean, I love my mom and you know, to be able to pull that off as a mom, you know, I, this was back in the 70s and 80s, by the way, a little bit different time. You know, it's incredible that you turned out as well as you did. But I think part of it is, and I can relate to this, is the experience that you went through kind of built you for this moment too. Do you see that?
- [12:25]
Deja Fox
Oh, yeah, I'm tough, right? I've, I've a young woman of color in politics for the last decade. I'm used to being underestimated. I'll be honest with you. This is an uphill battle. Just, I mean, the other week, someone else in my race inherited her, the former, from the former congressman's team, his email and fundraising list. Right. Mail and fundraising list. And you know, that's, that's sort of politics as usual. But it does pose a barrier, right. And it shows that for folks like me, right. Folks like us who are raised by single moms, that there are advantages we'll just never have in these races. And as we take up positions of power, stick up our heads to lead. But it doesn't change the fact that we need perspectives like ours represented power. You know, I think about the difference here of someone like me who's had to make hard decisions in the grocery checkout line, right. When we talk about the price of eggs and someone like Trump or Elon Musk who's never even done their own grocery shopping, right. And they want to sit here and talk about we'll lower the price of eggs. What do they know, you know, And.
- [13:34]
Jim Acosta
Trump just wants a bunch of gold crap all around. Have you seen the pictures of him in the Oval Office? I was going to talk about this with Olivia. Troy's coming up in a little bit. But like he's got all this tacky gold stuff on the fireplace behind him. I'm like, my God, man, you can go to Home Depot and buy those things and spray painted gold and glue it on there. We know it's not gold plated, it's not Trump Tower, it's not Putin's hideout, it's not any of those things. But I mean, this is the kind of like corny crap that I feel like your generation is like you're over it. You're so over it. You're, I mean, it's time to get real. And you mentioned inflation and prices and affordability. You know, I'm seeing polls and surveys that show that your generation in particular, Gen Z, in particular, that you guys are very worried about the future and so pessimistic and think that it, you know, the American dream, what's that? It ain't going to be there, you.
- [14:25]
Deja Fox
Know, and, and that's why I'm in this race is because so many young people feel that way and it's not unwarranted. You know, I host these youth listening sessions in my living room where I invite young leaders in Arizona in to talk about their experiences, be in community, build coalition and also to get down to the root of the issues. And so many times when we think about what are youth issues, things that come to mind are climate change, reproductive rights, gun violence, prevention, all of which are true. However, when I'm sitting with folks in my living room, what I often hear when we talk about, you know, as a young advocate, as a movement leader, what are you worried about when you put your head down at night? What I hear from these young people is that they save up their paychecks month after month and they don't get an inch closer to moving out of their parents house. Right. That they are one car breakdown away from not making their rent this month. That they ownership was something that was promised to other generations but is an impossibility for them. And so, you know, as we think about what is the future of our message to young people that we are losing, we need to be translating these big overarching issues like inflation and cost of living and the economy right into their lives. And that's going to take good storytellers who have lived it, people like me who are trusted messengers and know how to use new media and social media to meet people where they're at.
- [15:52]
Jim Acosta
Well Deja, tell us where folks can find your dejafox.com is it as simple as that? And for folks who are not on the TikTok because they think the Chinese will be in their phone and stuff, you're on all the, you're on the gram, you're on all the places.
- [16:04]
Deja Fox
That's right. We're on all socials including right substack where you can get the behind the scenes of the behind the scenes look at our campaign. I just dropped something today with three Comments that made me cry because, yes, I read my sometimes, even though I probably shouldn't. And you can contribute to our campaign@deja fox.com I have two X's in my last name and you know, every dollar goes a long way for a young working class candidate like me and sending a new generation of leadership to D.C. and thanks for having me on today, Deja.
- [16:36]
Jim Acosta
It's great having you on. Really appreciate it. And on behalf of all generations above you, we apologize to Generation X or Generation Z, I should say. I mean, Generation X in particular. I mean, you guys, I mean, you guys, you guys are the future. And that's, it's just so important that we, you know, you, Maxwell Frost, a few years ago, AOC did this. You know, it's, it's really critical to see young people diving and having some faith in the system when it's, it is such a time for not having faith in the system. I get it. I get the pessimism. But for you to dive in like this, my hat's off to you. Way to go.
- [17:10]
Deja Fox
I appreciate your time.
- [17:11]
Jim Acosta
All right. Thanks, Deja. Really appreciate it. That was Deja Fox, really just a really interesting up and coming Gen Z out there I want to bring in because this has been, I've been calling this to myself and I'm just going to call it to everybody else right now. What I think of one of the themes I've been doing this week, and that is I've been, I've been looking at this as sort of like Trump corruption week. On Monday, we had Mark Warner talking about the administration pressuring companies into using Elon Musk's Starlink. Yesterday at Senator Chris Murphy on talking about Trump's meme coin scams. Today, I want to bring back Liz Oyer. Liz, great to see you. Last time we spoke, we talked about Trump and the pardon power and you being let go over there at the Justice Department. And now you've been digging into some pretty sketchy use of Trump's pardon authority and who's been benefiting from it and what kind of cost it's coming to the taxpayers. Liz, tell us about this.
- [18:11]
Liz Oyer
Yeah, it's so shocking what's going on with the pardons right now, Jim. I'm not sure that the media is really digging into these individual cases, but what's so unprecedented about what's happening now is that it is all about money. Trump is pardoning people who owe millions and sometimes tens and hundreds of millions of dollars in fines and restitution and the effects, effects of his pardons are to forgive all of that debt, which means that those people no longer have to pay that money back. And their victims, the people who were defrauded or cheated by these individuals, do not get the money back that they are owed. That is really an unprecedented use of the pardon power. And the thing that we're learning now, one thing that was reported today by Bloomberg, is that lawyers are making millions by getting their clients these pardons. People are actually paying tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, and sometimes upwards of a million dollars to get a lawyer to put their application on the president's desk.
- [19:14]
Jim Acosta
Yeah. And I remember this from the end of the first Trump administration, when he was dangling those pardons out there for people like Steve Bannon and so on, there were folks lining up at these lobbying offices, law offices, trying to find people who were connected to the Trump White House to try to set up these kinds of pardons. And they went out a lot of Donald Trump's buddies back then. And one other thing you mentioned, this Bloomberg story, I want to point people to it because some of these folks are GOP donors. According to Bloomberg, they profiled this guy, Trevor Milton, who was the founder of an electric truck company who was convicted of fraud in 2022. He donated 1.7 million to support Trump in 2024, and he got a pardon. And he told Bloomberg that Trump told him, quote, it's signed, you're cleaner than a baby's bottom. You're cleaner than I am.
- [20:03]
Liz Oyer
Yeah, yeah. It's really.
- [20:05]
Jim Acosta
I shouldn't laugh. It's terrible. But, I mean, your thoughts on that?
- [20:09]
Liz Oyer
No. Trevor Milton is somebody who, under the traditional standards for clemency, he never would have been considered. One of the things that the Justice Department historically looks at is people who have served their time, have expressed remorse for their conduct, who have demonstrated good conduct. In the time since Trevor Milton, he hasn't paid a cent of the money he owes, and he hasn't served a day of any sentence that he might get for this crime. But what he did was, I mean, it's really, I guess, a case study for others. He put together a package where he tried to persuade Trump that his prosecution or his persecution, as he put it, was just the same as what Trump went through, and it actually worked. Milton claimed that he was persecuted by an unfair trial. He said that one of his jurors was unfair because they wanted to abolish the billionaire class. So these are the types of arguments that people are making to the president to get pardons, and they are actually working, which is really unprecedented.
- [21:14]
Jim Acosta
Yeah. And I, you know, I mean, it's costing the taxpayers money. I mean, for all the talk of Elon Musk and eliminating waste, fraud and abuse and Doge and everything else, I mean, you, you have examined this and it looks as though if you add up all the money, it gets to around a billion dollars of all the restitution that was owed that was just sort of wiped away.
- [21:34]
Liz Oyer
Yeah, that's exactly right. The math I did, it adds up to over a billion dollars. And that's only the pardons that we know about. One question that I have is, are there more? The administration isn't even announcing the pardons anymore. They're just coming to light when other events happen. But they're not. I mean, even during Trump's first term, they were making press releases. They were announcing publicly when they pardoned someone. And now we don't even necessarily know that. We know about all of the pardons. Pardons, which is really alarming. There's just no accountability here. There's this whole kind of like cottage industry, sort of a side economy in lobbying for pardons and handing out pardons to the wealthy. And that's just a total abuse of the powers of government.
- [22:19]
Jim Acosta
And you mentioned that we're not, we don't find out about these things. There's not enough transparency about it. We should note, Donald Trump and his people have committed to be the most transparent administration in history. Obviously, those were just words, but how would we go about finding this out? Is it a matter of public record? Shouldn't we know when these pardons take place? How does that work? Because you worked in the pardon office at the Justice Department.
- [22:42]
Liz Oyer
Yeah. So historically, the White House has always communicated with the Office of the Pardon Attorney and the Justice Department about the pardons that they're granting. So that the pardon office, even if the pardon office doesn't agree with the decision to make the pardon, they can at least maintain the paperwork, make sure that the paperwork is publicly accessible, and ensure that there's some level of transparency. But that is no longer happening. It seems that clemency operations are being run by the presidents inner circle within the White House, and there is no role for the Justice Department in this. And one of the really shocking things, in addition to the lack of transparency, is that sometimes these decisions are coming as a shock to the prosecutors who are actually working on these cases. You talked about waste fought fraud and abuse. And you know, this is, this is a situation where prosecutors are investing years of time in pursuing a case in the case of Trevor Milton, just two weeks before Milton was pardoned, a prosecutor submitted a filing to the court saying, we want you to order Milton to pay $676 million in restitution. That's what he owes his victims. So that's Trump's own Justice Department in April is saying Milton is on the hook for almost $700 million owed to his victims. And then two weeks later, the president swoops in and wipes out the entire thing with a pardon. So that's just a waste of resources on another level. And it's also a lack of coordination with the people who are prosecuting these cases.
- [24:16]
Jim Acosta
And, I mean, has Pam Bondi said anything about this? Has the question been raised with the Justice Department at least? Like you said, this is not getting the attention it deserves. It sort of falls into the other stories I was talking about. I've been saying this is sort of Trump, Trump corruption week on the show. I've been outlining other instances of this kind of corruption. And, you know, it just seems to me the question needs to be asked, what's going on here?
- [24:41]
Liz Oyer
Yeah. So it doesn't. When I was at the Justice Department, it didn't seem that the department really had any involvement in this decision making. I don't know what may be going on now as far as Pam Bondi, but the Justice Department did give a comment to Bloomberg Story where they said they are committed to reviewing all clemency applications that are coming in through the Department of Justice. That actually does not seem to be the case. There is right now a backlog of over 7,000 applications that are submitted from the general public. People who don't have these inside connections or don't have a million dollars to pay a lobbyist or a lawyer. And some of those people are actually very deserving. They're people who've been incarcerated for decades. They're people who have served their sent, paid their debt and have done really well for 10, 20, 30 years since their conviction. They're people who actually meet these standards set out by the Justice Department for a pardon. But those people are being passed over. Those people aren't getting any attention because all of the focus is on the people with the money who are getting in through connections and side channels and campaign contributions and whatever else it may be that gets their case on the president's desk.
- [25:53]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, I mean, you raise a good point because the pardon power is there for the president and is a sweeping authority. So there are instances where a president can try to right injustices, right wrongs, people who have been sent away for far too long because of a drug conviction, non violent drug conviction, and so on. We saw Barack Obama do that. We saw Joe Biden do that to some extent. We've seen that happen on a bipartisan basis in the past. But what seems to be taking place now, and what's disturbing in terms of what you've uncovered, Liz, is that the use of the pardon authority has been warped into something. It has mutated into something that the public needs to know about, that he's just sort of granting these to people who are donors or rich and powerful and so on. And I assume this is going to raise the question again, does this authority need to be reformed? Should the President not have this kind of authority?
- [26:48]
Liz Oyer
I think that's exactly the right question to be asking now, Jim, unfortunately. I mean, I really was a big believer in the power of clemency for good during my time as pardon attorney. But what's happening with it now is really causing me to question whether it's good that we have this unchecked presidential power that right now is being used in such a destructive way. One of the most shocking cases is not the biggest in terms of dollars. This is a $70,000 fraud. But there's a woman named Michelle F. She was an elected official in Las Vegas, Nevada, and she embezzled $70,000 from a police memorial fund. She was raising money to go to build a memorial to two fallen police officers who died in the line of duty. And she stole the money and she used it on plastic surgery and to pay for her daughter's wedding. This woman did not serve a day in prison. She didn't pay a dime of the money back that she owed, and she got a full pardon from President Trump. There is just no rational explanation for that as an appropriate use of the presidential pardon power. And cases like that, although that's not the biggest dollar example, really cause one to question whether this is a good thing that the President has this authority. And it's really just. It's impossible to imagine what the President may have been thinking that that was.
- [28:16]
Jim Acosta
Yeah. Do we know, was there a connection, political connection there or.
- [28:20]
Liz Oyer
Well, she's a, she's a big Trump booster. She's known, she has a nickname that's been reported in the press of Lady Trump. So there's that. But, you know, is this the one.
- [28:31]
Jim Acosta
Who was out there shooting her gun in the desert?
- [28:34]
Liz Oyer
That's the one, yes.
- [28:35]
Jim Acosta
Oh, boy. Yeah. If folks want to look that one up, that, that is a doozy that that piece of video is. I know who you're talking about. I remember the story.
- [28:44]
Liz Oyer
It's quite a video.
- [28:45]
Jim Acosta
Oh my goodness. But it just goes to show you if you're connected and he is so susceptible to flattery and people who worship him and you know, sort of show cult like behavior and so on, I assume that kind of gets you to the head of the heap, the top of the pile or at least near the top of the pile.
- [29:04]
Liz Oyer
Yeah, I mean there are people who've been waiting for years who are just ordinary people who don't have these connections, who aren't known supporters, who aren't donors and they're waiting. And meanwhile people like this are jumping to the top of the line and it's really inexpensive, inexplicable, why that's happening. But it's totally corrupt, Jim. I mean there's really no other word for it.
- [29:23]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, it smells to high heaven. And Liz, thank you for exposing this, doing what you do. I mean, I know you were not happy when you were let go by the Justice Department, but maybe you have found your voice in a new era area here and that is sort of exposing this kind of stuff because obviously we need to know about this. The public has a right to know and they're certainly trying to keep it from seeing the light of day. So thank you for what you do, but it's really important. Really appreciate your time.
- [29:53]
Olivia Troy
Thanks.
- [29:54]
Liz Oyer
Jim. I just want to say I am trying to make sure that the public is aware of what's going on with these pardons. And so I'm on TikTok and Instagram, my handle is lawyeroyer and I'm telling as many of these stories as I can through that medium. So if folks are interested, please follow along.
- [30:13]
Jim Acosta
Well, you know, and have Andrew flag us if you see another one of these things.
- [30:18]
Liz Oyer
Absolutely.
- [30:19]
Jim Acosta
And feel free to reach out to me as well. Because I mean, these things, I mean, you know, it just, it's sort of like I was talking about the other day with Mark Warner and Chris Murphy yesterday, the scope and the scale of the corruption and the sketchiness and everything that's going on right now. It's even more than what the national news media can handle with these news organizations. And it takes citizens journalists, if I may call you that, like yourself, citizen activists like yourself, exposing this kind of stuff. So Liz, thank you very much. Really appreciate it.
- [30:50]
Liz Oyer
Thanks so much for having me. Jim, great to see you.
- [30:51]
Jim Acosta
Good to see you. Thanks again. That's Liz Oyer and very clever lawyer Oyer. That's perfect. Let's go to Olivia Troy. She is with me as well. You know, Olivia and I always have fun conversations when we get together and we have a lot to talk about because Olivia called my attention to something else. It just doesn't stop, you know, it's, you know, the. Our cup floweth over overfloweth, whatever the expression is. I'll have a sip while I'm waiting for Olivia to come on. And, you know, Olivia is going to talk about something that she has found. And this is already starting to get reported in the press. Oh, by the way, a shout out to Odd, who apparently is. Was on the program earlier. I caught a little bit of his program earlier. Love at God. It's very possible that you may see us collaborating in the near future, because I just. I tuned in a little bit today and just found it absolutely hysterical. He has an account here on Substack. Very popular show. He's very popular here. And so you may see that in the near future. Apparently he hopped on earlier and folks were saying hi, God, and all that sort of thing. And I was on his thing and people were saying, hi, Jim. And so this is the beauty of the substack machine. We see each other around the substack water cooler from time to time. And there's Olivia Troy. Hey, Olivia. Great to see you.
- [32:13]
Olivia Troy
Hey, how are you?
- [32:15]
Jim Acosta
And great. I mean, I was just talking with Liz Oyer about the pardon power and how Trump's been abusing it, handing it to political donors and cronies and people who worship him and so on. And it's just, you can't keep up with this stuff. But you called my attention to a piece of potential corruption out there, of something that is beloved in the Washington, D.C. area, and that is the Kennedy Center. I mean, I'm sorry. I know I should not laugh at this stuff. It's not good. But if I don't laugh, my head will explode. And I'm just gonna read this right here. It says, the board of trustees invites you to a VIP reception and performance opening night of Les Miserables. In case you want to say that Trump is not culturally illiterate with President Donald J. Trump, the 45th and 47th president of the United States. It points out here you can go to a VIP reception and a 7:30 performance. Oh, but you got to donate a bunch of cash, $2,000, get you a performance box, sponsorship, and a photo opportunity with Donald Trump. Or. No, that says 2 million. Wait a minute, $2 million?
- [33:21]
Olivia Troy
2 million.
- [33:22]
Jim Acosta
I just. I just read it. In the 2000s.
- [33:24]
Olivia Troy
No, it's 2 million avenues. It's 2 million.
- [33:27]
Jim Acosta
What is going on now? It says that. That Donald Trump is not. Is not. What is he saying in this? He's not actually. He's not directly soliciting donations. It says on this. He's not directly solid, but it doesn't say indirectly soliciting donation. It doesn't say, hey, if you slide an envelope under the table, you know, you know, give us the secret handshake.
- [33:50]
Olivia Troy
He's also the chairman of the board of the Kennedy center, and the layers go on and on. So, yeah, I was pretty appalled at this invitation. Here's some inside scoop, too, which is even kind of more interesting in some ways. Yeah, yeah. My understanding is that they went in and bought out all the leftover tickets for this performance, which is opening night. So for. So that they apparently could sell them for 2 million and a hundred thousand dollars and whatever it is. And so I think this is super interesting because so for anyone who has tickets out there, just know you got a great deal because you got it.
- [34:30]
Jim Acosta
At a discount price, and StubHub was ripping you off. Man, oh, man. You know, this is. Now they're. Now. Now Trump's getting into ticket scalping. Is that what's happening here? I mean, holy Moses.
- [34:42]
Olivia Troy
That's pretty disturbing when you think about it. But, yeah. So hopefully the people that actually bought tickets to the show and are going to go to it directly from the Kidney center, hopefully that money is, you know, the Kennedy center will actually see some of that money and the musicians that are playing for this musical. But I'm just surprised that Les Mis is still going forward with this. But who knows? I don't know. I don't know what's going on there.
- [35:02]
Jim Acosta
He's turned the Les Mis into another le scam. What a surprise. Yeah.
- [35:07]
Olivia Troy
Also, does Trump even know what Les Mis is about? Because the irony's not lost on me.
- [35:13]
Jim Acosta
I mean, isn't there, like a revolution.
- [35:15]
Olivia Troy
Or something and resistance in the face of oppression? The people rising. Have you heard the people saying, the.
- [35:23]
Jim Acosta
Scary thing, Olivia, is that he probably sees MAGA as the resistance who are rising up against the. Against the deep state, you know, and all that stuff. That's what is going on in his warped head.
- [35:35]
Olivia Troy
Yeah, well, you know, with the gutting of the NEA and everything, I think he's got a new lesson coming, because when he sees the people rise to defend the arcs, that's going to be a different thing.
- [35:43]
Jim Acosta
So I don't know, but it's sort of like the old Rick Wilson thing. Everything Trump touches dies. And it sounds as though people were not buying up enough of these tickets. Because that's the other thing you hear about around Washington is like, I'm not going to the Kennedy Center. Screw that. No way. Which is awful. And it's sad because the Kennedy center is such an institution and there are all these wonderful and talented artists there. We don't want them to get hosed.
- [36:09]
Olivia Troy
But, yeah, I think that is a big part of it. You know, the Steve Jobs Opera is playing at the Kennedy center this week. The revolution of Steve Jobs. And the Opera House seats 2,200 people in it. It's my understanding that on Monday night they sold about 600 tickets. And that just. That's so heartbreaking because they're literally just sort of. You're seeing the demise of the center in full time. And it's terrible because I worry about how the musicians and the performers and the staff there, the people who are actually part of the Kennedy center and arts community, I just wonder about their livelihoods because this is gonna ultimately impact them. And it's hard, right? I mean, it's hard to be the people in the center performing and it's impacting them. But then to be on the outside is like, well, do I wanna go and support the chairman of the board's entity now that it's become. Do I want to be part of. Of supporting the grift of Rick Grinnell, Donald Trump and whatever they're going to use the Kennedy center for, to their behest? And it's hard. It's just a. It's a tough. It's a really tough time.
- [37:13]
Jim Acosta
But it's really tough because. And I love going to the Kennedy center, and I've been to the National Symphony Orchestra there, the Washington Ballet, you know, obviously all the wonderful shows that they put on there over the years. And I mean, I saw Hamilton there for the first time and they brought me backstage and they were so nice there. So you don't want artists to get hurt. And so it'll be very interesting to see how this plays out. You know, speaking of conundrums and so on, we need to get into this, Olivia, because this involves your old boss, Vice President Mike Pence, former Vice President Mike Pence, not the Vice President right now, winning the JFK Profile and Courage Award. And he received the reward, the award, I should say, for his refusal to go along with Trump's efforts to overturned the 2020 election, obviously. And you know, he said in his remarks, this is what the Constitution. The Constitution is supposed to bind us all together and so on. But, you know, this is coming at a time when Trump is telling people he doesn't even know if he has to uphold the Constitution. And so, I mean, your thoughts on Mike Pence winning this award, what he had to say, how it fits into the grand scheme of things. I mean, he is sort of like the Republican Party of yesteryear. You know, you're not in power, you can't get into power, but we can give you this nice award.
- [38:30]
Olivia Troy
Well, and his speech kind of. It had that tone of the Republicans of the past. Right. I mean, I thought he gave a really good speech. I think that was one of the most powerful things about the entire event was the remarks that put Mike Pence delivered to it, because he was very deferential and he spoke very, so highly about what it meant to be connected to the JFK legacy. He also talked about, you know, the Constitution is the common ground for all of us. He also, you know, he was strong about Ukraine. Unwavering. He has remained unwavering on Ukraine. On it.
- [39:08]
Liz Oyer
Right.
- [39:08]
Olivia Troy
And I think part of it is that I know that he has a lot of. He looks up to Ronald Reagan's legacy. He had a Reagan bust in his office. That Ronald Reagan was a big, big, you know, person that he sort of looked up to along the way in Republican politics. And so I think he's not going to waver on that. And I have to be honest, part of me was, like, kind of happy about the fact that I'm sure that it pissed off Trump to see him get this award. And that's just sort of the. I don't know, that's the petty person in me that it's pathetic to think that way. But it's so true that, you know, I'm sure that it didn't land well with him to see it. But, you know, I mean, I think the award is meant to be people who take courageous acts in public service. And I think on January 6, to Mike Pence's credit, he did. He held the line. Right. And I think the bigger moment to the line in his speech that really struck with me, and I was glad that he said it, was that the people who really held that line, the people who deserve the recognition, were the people in uniform. And he went out of his way to say that about what happened to the cops that day. And I was glad he said that.
- [40:17]
Jim Acosta
Yes. And the Secret Service agents who were with him that day hustling him out. I mean, there were so many different things that were going on that day. I mean, you know, just to think back to that day when I think it was written and reported that, you know, the Secret Service agent said, you know, Mr. Vice President, we got to get you out of here. And he tells the story that, you know, if I left, who knows if we would have completed the job of certifying the election results and so on. I mean, you know, that was a very bold and courageous move on his part that he was insisting in that moment with everything coming down on top of him that he continue to go along with the peaceful transfer of power. I mean, what we've seen from J.D. vance and some of the other sycophants who are in the new administration, if they had been in that position, Lord knows where we would be right now if they had just gone in there and tried to overturn the whole thing and create this constitutional crisis and then it goes to a Supreme Court which was obviously becoming very partisan.
- [41:18]
Olivia Troy
Yeah, I don't see anyone standing in the way next time. Which is why I continue to be worried when Trump floats the idea of, you know, a third term, what he's going to do. You know, I think sometimes people think it's hyperbole. We've been around this guy enough to.
- [41:34]
Jim Acosta
Know that he means what he says in many cases. Yeah. As often as he lies, he means what he says on many different subjects. You know, the other thing that we have to get into, and I saw this earlier today and this is more near and dear to my heart. So maybe I'll talk about a little bit more at the end of the show. Is that the Voice of America, this is according to the Washington Post is going to be carrying programming from the right wing TV network One America News. This is according to a post from Kari Lake on X and that the agency agreed to provide news feed services to Voice of America as well to the the office of Cuba Broadcasting and Radio Marti. I mean, are you kidding me? Like OAN is going to be out there providing material and editorial content to Voice of America. I mean, this is the end of Voice of America as we know it.
- [42:31]
Olivia Troy
If that's the case, the integrity of it state run basically propaganda. I mean that's what this will look like and be is pretty upsetting and disturbing, I think. You know, actually I can help myself. I thought of Rick Renell who's running the Kennedy center because who was always on oan. I think he still goes on there and he's connected to that network was Rick Renell. And so that is what this is going to look like.
- [42:53]
Jim Acosta
Isn't Matt Gaetz on there too? I think he's on there, yeah.
- [42:57]
Olivia Troy
So now we have a complete right wing network that is going to be broadcasting. I mean, are they going to be broadcasting around the world? I mean, turn on VOA again and that's what they're going to do with it.
- [43:09]
Jim Acosta
And but this is what Trump wants. He wants a state media apparatus. People need to understand this. You know, he was on Truth Social earlier today railing against CBS in 60 Minutes. Again, he's pressuring Sherry Redstone over at, over at Paramount to close this deal, to, you know, make this happen, make this settlement happen so she can close the media merger deal that she's trying to do. And it's scary because this is a very big problem in this country. And I'm going to be hosting a panel discussion later on this evening about the movie Words of War here in Washington over at the National Press Club. And that movie very much deals with the slow but steady movement towards state media in Russia, suppression of journalism in Russia and an end of any kind of concept of a free press. And if it can happen there, it can happen here. And everybody who looks at this headline and says, oh, I can't pay attention to this right now, there's too much going on. That is a very serious headline in my personal view.
- [44:17]
Olivia Troy
No, it absolutely is. And I think that is just, that'll be the officially state run media. And I think he sees every other outlet out there as wanting full control of it. And that is the direction that he would like all of this to go. It's just, you know, Voice of America is the easiest because it was part, you know, it fell under government, it was, it was funded. And so I think, you know, that that makes it easy for him to use it for his bidding right now. But we're seeing him want full control of this face. And again, freedom of the press, that's a major pillar. And I think that is very authoritarian of him to do.
- [44:55]
Jim Acosta
Absolutely. And the other thing that we should get into, Olivia, before we go, is an attorney, I believe, who has represented you and other whistleblowers in D.C. mark Zaid is suing the Trump administration after they went after his security clearance. And I'm just curious what your thoughts are. I mean, this is part of the process for people who are being retaliated against. Trump's obviously going after Mark Zaid to make a statement out of him. And he's fighting back. Good for Mark.
- [45:31]
Olivia Troy
He is. And I think that's incredibly important because from my perspective, he's not just fighting for his own Mark Zaid. He really is representative of all of us, and he's fighting for all of us because he represents a number of us who held the administration accountable. He represents a variety of people across the national security apparatus. And I think it's critical. I mean, yes, you know, having a security clearance, it's, you know, it's their decision to make. You know, the President can decide on it, but the way they went about it, and there's absolutely no reason why they should have revoked Mark Zaid's clearance.
- [46:09]
Liz Oyer
Right.
- [46:09]
Olivia Troy
And so I think he needs. He needs to fight it. And like, Mark has represented numerous whistleblowers along the way. That's why this is critical, because it really is sort of specifically targeting, because he's done that. But let me be clear that he's also represented people that are still in Trump's circle because he is fair about the law and he has defended them. And so it is just interesting to watch them kind of cherry pick and target people specifically. And we know that that's about a separate, totally different agenda, and that's retribution, its finest, and also the tilling effect. Right. But I'm grateful to Mark Zaid that he's not caving like some of the other law firms have, where he is fighting back and he's gonna take a stand against it.
- [46:51]
Jim Acosta
Yeah. I mean, and that. And that is kind of the lesson in all of this. And you need people like Mark. You need people like Miles Taylor. You need people who are going to say, you know, I'm not bending the knee. You need people in media to say, I'm not going to bend the knee. And the more people who do that, the better off we're going to be in the long run. For the knee benders, you're not helping. You may think you're helping yourself in this very narrow moment of self interest, but you are making it entirely more difficult for everybody else in the long run.
- [47:25]
Olivia Troy
Yeah. You're enabling the entire machine. And for every individual, every entity, every pillar of society participant that's happening there, the pillars of democracy, that does that, you are chipping away because you are making it extremely hard, and you're making it for all of us. Right. That's what's coming. But I do think that, I mean, there's power in numbers, and people like Mark Zaid, you know, I give him complete credit for taking on this fight. He also, you know, he is helping Miles Taylor with the retribution that's come his way from the Trump administration and the executive order. He is working hard with whistleblower aid, which he co founded. And so they have a whole fund, they're doing this whole case and you know, we'll see how this plays out. But I think it takes people taking a stand and wavering and I'll be here, you know, in the trenches with you and others.
- [48:16]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, absolutely. As you like to say, the cause comes first. And I totally believe in that and agree with that wholeheartedly. And just you said something that made me think I should ask this question and that is why is Mark security clearance important?
- [48:31]
Olivia Troy
Well, because he one, he represents people that have security clearances and it's actually about being able to go to these hearings. And I'll give you a specific example. I mean I, I had to testify. I testified behind a closed door hearing on the Hill and Mark Zaid actually went with me. He was able to represent me and go with me. When it came to Covid and they had a closed door briefing. I met with the staff. Mark Zaid was able to attend with me. It was, you know, I get to choose my attorney that's there. And when it comes to other incidents, when it comes to national security or a security clearance incident, it is important to have representation. It's all part of the rule of law in our country, due process. And that is another angle, I think that we don't really talk about that. This is chipping away at the ability to be able to do due process, the ability to actually stand up in a court of law.
- [49:25]
Liz Oyer
Right.
- [49:26]
Olivia Troy
And people, that's why people like Mark Zeit matter because he has a clearance that's required in some of these situations where you're going to need him to be cleared to go into the courtroom. And we just lost. That's a big loss to us, especially those in intelligence who may need someone like Mark going forward.
- [49:42]
Jim Acosta
Yeah. And you and I and just to wrap things up, you and I haven't really spoken about this since it went down. I talked about on the show a few times, I'm sure you've talked about in other places. But when you hear Trump come out and say, and I mentioned this at the beginning of the show because he said it again on Truth Social earlier today, there was black smoke coming out of the Vatican. There's still orange smoke coming out of the White House. And I don't know what they're smoking over there. But again he said that we don't need trials for these migrants. You know, activist judges must let the Trump administration deport murderers and other criminals who have come into our country illegally without delay. What he means is without due process.
- [50:20]
Olivia Troy
Yes.
- [50:20]
Jim Acosta
And, you know, first of all, not all these people that they're sweeping up are murderers and criminals, even though that's how he views migrants in this country. I spoke to somebody just the other day on this program. Juan Lima, his parents from Brazil were picked up. They were visa overstays. They've been in this country for years and years, didn't commit a crime, paid their taxes, leaders in their church. People are just getting swept up because of their last name or how they look or their accent. I mean, that is just what's happening. People just need to understand that that is what's happening in this country right now. They just went through a bunch of restaurants here in D.C. over the last 24 hours. And people who work in the restaurants are not criminals and murderers or they wouldn't be working in those restaurants. They're being swept up because of their skin color, because of their last name, because of the accent that they have, full stop. That's why it's happening. This is government run racial profiling, it seems to me. There's just no question about it. That's what's happening.
- [51:17]
Olivia Troy
Oh, absolutely. And I have no doubt, there is no doubt in my mind that this is completely what you just described being done by Stephen Miller. I have no doubt in my mind that this is the agenda that is happening here. And I think when you hear Trump say those lines about they don't deserve, like, legal, that is propaganda that is being pushed out across right wing networks. I'm seeing it actually online. I'm seeing it when people actually send me comments or when I write about immigration. It is a portfolio that was very hard to work on during the Trump administration, but it was very near to my heart because I am the daughter of a Mexican immigrant and I grew up on the border. Right. I grew up in El Paso, which is a border town. And so I think watching this happen, the way it's playing out, is incredibly disturbing. But I'm also concerned about the propaganda machine that continues to push these false narratives. Because what they're doing is they're trying to convince Americans. And you're hearing it, you're saying it, you've heard Stephen Miller say it. I think, I believe he said it himself where he says, no, these are illegal people. These aren't Americans. They don't deserve due process. They don't have legal Rights. They don't. And it's like, no, that's not how this works. I mean, especially, you can think that.
- [52:27]
Jim Acosta
But the Constitution says otherwise.
- [52:29]
Olivia Troy
It says otherwise. Some of these people are legal residents, right? I mean, there's, we've talked about. I think the last time I was on your show, we talked about the US Citizen children. They have rights, you know, and I think that's when I saw it actually, where people started to write to me and were like, well, they don't have any standing. They were trafficked by their parents into the country. And I'm like, okay, I can see what's happening here. They're drinking the Kool Aid and that's what they're doing. And so I think that is why they've used a cloak of immigration on a lot of these cases. Right. Because they think it's their strongest winning issue. But I think that they're doing. I mean, I think that they're starting to lose that. I think they're starting to lose the win on that one.
- [53:07]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, they're drinking the Kool Aid. They're huffing the orange smoke. I'm not sure what they're doing. But, you know, you can't retroactively take away birthright citizenship if the 4 year old is a US citizen. The 4 year old has rights. I'm sorry, Stephen Miller. I'm sorry, Donald Trump. I'm sorry, Tom Homan. You know, you guys can go into your, you know, Fox News information bubble and insulate yourselves from the real world, but that is not how it works. Olivia, great to see you. Thanks so much for your time. Really appreciate it. Good to see you. Thanks.
- [53:43]
Olivia Troy
See you next time. Bye.
- [53:44]
Jim Acosta
See you next time. Or until we talk to each other on the phone. Yeah, okay.
- [53:47]
Olivia Troy
Yeah, well, yeah, okay. I'll call you.
- [53:48]
Jim Acosta
Okay. See, I'm so glad I had Olivia on the show. And, you know, you know Olivia, she gets it. We speak the same language as Olivia says the cause comes first. And this kind of goes back to what Mike Pence said, you know, when he received the JFK Profile and Courage Award. That's what we've been saying on this show. It's what people like Olivia have been saying nonstop. The Constitution matters. Constitution matters. You cannot, Donald Trump, take away people's constitutional rights because you think you're a king or a dictator or whatever you think you are. You cannot take away people's constitutional rights. If they are a person in this country, they have a right to due process. And you can try to construct a state media like apparatus in this country where your propaganda is pumped out to the world or pumped out into certain corners, or because you have friends over at Fox who rely on access to you, they'll parrot your talking points and so on. But you're never going to. You're never going to defeat the truth. This is what you must understand over at the White House, people like Stephen Miller, you are never going to defeat the truth. You're never going to crush and roll under you. The truth. And the truth of the matter is, is that if you are a human being in this country, you have constitutional rights, you have a right to due process. And you cannot be just swept up off the street because you have brown skin and a Spanish last name and get thrown out of the country. It just doesn't work that way. And maybe I take this a little bit more personally because I'm the son of a Cuban refugee and maybe that's how it is. And you can say that, and I'll say guilty as charged, no question about it. But I'm also passionate about the Constitution and the rights that we're supposed to have in this country. And so, Donald Trump, you can put together a state media like empire in this country. I think you're going to run out of time before you pull it off. You're just not going to have time to pull it off. You can intimidate the people at cbs, you can intimidate the people at the other corporate media outlets in this country, but you cannot crush the truth. It just can't be done. And so Kari Lake, a failed politician, failed TV anchor, you can put her in place over at oan, or I guess Voice of America, which wants to become oan, and she can try to do these sorts of things, but you're not going to be able to crush the truth. The truth is going to outlive you, Donald Trump, it's going to outlive you. And you can tell all the lies that you want with that tacky gold crap behind you in the Oval Office. You can't put gold plating, faux crappy gold plating over the truth. The truth always shines through whatever ridiculous, gaudy gold crap you try to put over top of it. And you can round up people, you can strike fear on the hearts of communities. There's no question about it. You can certainly do that. He has been doing that here in Washington the last 24 hours or so. They've struck fear in the heart of the migrant community here because there are lots of people who work in restaurants. They're not murders. They're not. They're not murderers and criminals and violent people. This thing that you've concocted in your mind, that you try to tell people to adopt as the truth in this country, that migrants are criminals, that they're bad people. Are there some bad people? Sure. Of course there are some native born Americans who commit crimes. Look who tried to assassinate you. There were white guys. We're not talking about deporting them. So forgive me for going on a little bit of a rant here. But you cannot cleanse this country. You cannot racially profile in this country and cleanse it of brown skinned people. You can't do it. You might want to do it, might think about doing it. You and Stephen Miller may get together and think about this. You're not going to be able to pull it off. The American people are going to stand in the way. They're going to stop you. The Constitution is going to stop you. The truth is going to stop. You can't crush it. It can't be crushed. Not in this country. I want to thank Deja Fox for coming on. I have a lot of hope for the future when I speak to somebody like Deja Fox, Liz Oyer and all the work that she's doing to expose the corruption of the pardon authority in this country. And of course, my friend Olivia Troy. Thank you all very much for watching. Really appreciate you tuning in. Until next time. Still reporting from Washington, I'm Jim Acosta. Have a good evening, everybody. Good night.