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The Jim Acosta Show
Investigative Journalist Julie Brown and Olivia Troye on the Epstein Files
00:59:30
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- [00:00]
Jim Acosta
All right. Welcome, everybody, to the Jim Acosta show. It is Thursday, and the fallout from Epstein Gate continues to grow here in Washington. Joining me on today's show is investigative journalist with the Miami Herald, Julie K. Brown, who has been working the Epstein story for years. She's also the author of the book Perversion of Justice, the Jeffrey Epstein Story. Julie, it's great to see you. When I was thinking about I need to have an expert on this case to come on my show, I thought of you first. And I know I'm not alone in that, but you really have been an expert in this. And just thank you for coming on. I guess. First of all, what's been your reaction to this flood of news that we've seen this week since that DOJ memo that came out, whatever, 4th of July weekend, that really felt like they were trying to sweep this thing under the rug? Your thoughts?
- [00:48]
Julie K. Brown
Well, there's sort of an irony here because up until now, there's really, you know, there's been a lot of hinting that Trump is somehow connected to Epstein, but there's really been no hard evidence at all. And I've been pretty vocal about the fact some of you know, people have been trying to directly link him with Epstein. Yes, he was friends with him, but so were a lot of other people. And the irony here is that even though he wasn't directly linked to Epstein before, this whole thing that happened this week does now link him to this case because he's made the decision to keep these files under wraps. And we're not just talking about a list here because we don't even know. And I doubt that there is a proverbial list of clients that Epstein had. But these are investigative files by the FBI, by the FAA, by Homeland Security, by, by the U.S. attorney. There are countless agencies that have been involved in Epstein investigations over the past two decades. So there's a lot of material here that they have in their hands that they have just, you know, decided we're not going to release anything. And so it's hard to understand why. And the explanation they've given is really not, I think, a good explanation for why they can't release some of this material.
- [02:21]
Jim Acosta
Well, a lot of different places I can go with this, but I'll just jump off of what you were saying. What do you make then of Elon Musk saying earlier this summer, where I guess back in June, early June wasn't technically summer, when he said Donald Trump is in the Epstein files, That's why they haven't been released Is it possible that Trump's name appears in these files somewhere, maybe not in a nefarious way, but just appears in the files? Yes, I guess we just don't know.
- [02:45]
Julie K. Brown
We don't know. And that's the point. And once again, we're being told, the public is being told, trust us, there was no credible evidence that he was blackmailing us. Trust us, we are confident he committed suicide. And the problem with this case is from the beginning, they've given us every reason not to trust the government on this case. You know, his, his original crimes were completely covered up from the very beginning. There was clearly evidence of what he was doing, and he was. And they sort of, you know, sabotaged the whole entire case. The, you know, Epstein was able to manipulate the, the Justice Department from the very beginning. And so to ask the public now to trust the very agency that screwed up the case from the start is a little bit hard, I think, for a lot of people to, to, you know, accept.
- [03:50]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, well, and when Pam Bondi is saying, back in February, I have the list on my desk. And then she turns around on Tuesday and says, well, I was just speaking generally about the Epstein files, like the MLK files and, and the JFK files. Okay, first of all, Donald Trump was just fine with releasing the JFK files. He's, he's somehow not fine with releasing the Epstein files. What about that? And what did you think of what Pam Bondi had to say? I suppose there may not be an actual list, but I just laughed when.
- [04:19]
Julie K. Brown
She said that because people who follow this case as closely as I have, and I've probably read almost everything it's, it's available, plus more. There's no way she could have the file on her desk. I was sort of kind of like, smiling, like, I don't even think the files in this case would fit in your office. And then, if you recall, a couple days later, after the big thing kind of fell apart, she said, well, we are going to have a truck ring us. If you recall she said that. And I thought, yeah, that's probably more like it. There probably is a lot of files. This isn't something that she could ever change, just have on her desk. So either she didn't know the, you know, the, how big this was, or she was trying to mislead people. I don't really understand why she would say something like that, because she ended up looking pretty foolish, I think.
- [05:17]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, no, I mean, she looked like she was lying to me. I mean, I'll just say that I'm not saying you're saying that, but that's what it looked like to me. And the other thing that she talked about was this missing video of the Epstein cell. What do you know? What do we know about that?
- [05:31]
Julie K. Brown
Let me clear that up, because I actually read the report, and it's a very, very big fat report to read. And I looked at it again when. When the video came out earlier this week. The video that they are. The time lapse actually is. Has no bearing on it. Even though everybody is sort of, ooh, a minute's missing.
- [05:50]
Jim Acosta
Yeah.
- [05:50]
Julie K. Brown
You know why? It doesn't matter. The camera that they're showing you, the vantage point doesn't show his cell. The cells that are in that frame aren't Epstein's cells. His cell was down in another wing. None of the cameras in that whole part of the prison were recording. They were working in real time, but they weren't recording, except for one, which is the one piece that they showed us. Now, that one, however, only showed the. What they call the common area where the guards sit. It doesn't show all the other ways to get into. It didn't show Epstein's cell, and it didn't show the catwalk, for example. It didn't show the hall where his cell is. I've covered prison deaths, so I know how this happens. In other words, if they left an inmate cell unlocked next to Epstein's, that inmate could walk out, go into Epstein's cell, and do something to him. We wouldn't know because the camera that was in that hallway wasn't working. So it's a total. I mean, if you really look at it, they're showing these little people, you know, and they're saying, this is Epstein. They put a circle around it, and he's walking over here, but you don't ever see his cell in that video.
- [07:07]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, that's strange. And where are these tapes? Where is the footage? Do we.
- [07:12]
Julie K. Brown
Well, it wasn't done because they weren't working in the report. Report that there was actually an investigation in Epstein's death. And it's a big, thick report. They interviewed the tech guy that handled the cameras in that. In that area, and he said they had been broken for a while. They. As I said, they showed things in real time, but you couldn't go back and get it. So there was only one camera that was operating fully operational, and that did not show Epstein's cell.
- [07:47]
Jim Acosta
That's weird. And I guess the thing is, you and I were talking about this just before we got started going live. Here. Do you accept that Jeffrey Epstein committed suicide?
- [07:58]
Julie K. Brown
Except as a. You know, I work on. Based on facts, Sure I am. Let me put it this way.
- [08:05]
Jim Acosta
Is there reason to worry that that's not the case?
- [08:08]
Julie K. Brown
There's enough evidence that I think it's possible he didn't commit suicide. And certainly the forensic pathologist that was hired by his brother, who was at the actual autopsy, in other words, he was there with Epstein's body and examined it side by side with the New York State medical examiner or city medical examiner. He doesn't believe that it was a suicide. And I have a lot of respect for scientists, and I. And of course they agree, but I think because there's so many other weird things. You know, the fact that the cameras were all broken, you know, the. Michael Baden, who's the pathologist hired by the family, points out all kinds of strange things. You know, for example, he was supposedly put the noose or the material around his neck, and then he used his own body while it tied to the top bunk. Well, the pictures show everything that was on his top bunk was standing upright, you know, his toiletry. If you're going to put the force of your whole body to hang yourself, you would think all that stuff would fall. And Baden told me it was all intact. So there was strange things. And I've covered prisons, as I mentioned, for a long time, and I've seen some pretty wild things that happen because they know how to manipulate those cameras. The guards are often not on the up and up. Epstein, another sign. Epstein was given two mattresses in that cell, and he was. They're not supposed to even sleep on the floor. They interviewed his roommate, and his roommate said, I wasn't allowed to sleep on the floor, but they gave him two mattresses.
- [09:55]
Jim Acosta
Right. Well, and I think you tweeted this a couple days ago, a tidbit from the OIG Federal probe into Epstein's death. He was given two mattresses, two extra blankets the day before his death. Why is that relevant? No other inmate in the unit was allowed to sleep on the floor, given mattresses or blankets. That. That's very strange. The other thing, too is I don't want to scoot past the Trump factor in all of this because the relationship between Jeffrey Epstein and Donald Trump. I mean, I'm sorry, it's just mysterious, and I'm just being diplomatic there. I suppose something seems weird there. All of the pictures of them dancing together. And then Trump said this about Epstein. What is it? Back in 2002, in a new York magazine story, about the financier. I've known Jeff for 15 years. Terrific guy. Trump booms from a speakerphone. He's a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side. No doubt about it. Jeffrey enjoys his social life. I mean, it seems that they. They knew each other quite well.
- [10:55]
Julie K. Brown
Well, we. We also know from court documents his. Epstein's bookkeeper was interviewed as part of one of these many, many civil suits that had been filed over the years. And Epstein, the person that. That Epstein was working with to try to start a modeling agency, she. She said Epstein told her, let's do it like Trump has his modeling agency set up. So, wow. They were talking, you know, they were friendly enough to kind of compare. What are you doing? I want to do the same thing as far as trying to get models, especially, I think, from overseas, which Epstein ultimately was doing. He had recruiters overseas, and what he would do was the youngest ones he would sort of take for himself and use, and then the ones that were older. When I say older, too old for. Epstein was like 18. Those people he would house in an apartment house that he had set aside for models in New York. But his bookkeeper had said that Epstein was modeling. It's kind of. I shouldn't use that word, but he was sort of basing his own modeling business after Trump's modeling business.
- [12:18]
Jim Acosta
And, you know, I mean, that's strange in and of itself. I mean, what do you make of one of the other things that Pam Bondi said, I believe, is that, well, we can't release all of the Epstein files because a lot of them are videotapes of child pornography. And, you know, that's also sounds like a dodge to me. I mean, Steve Bannon today apparently was on his podcast saying, bundle everything together. You've got sealed and unsealed. Release it all. I mean, he's saying, release everything. Of course, Elon Musk said Steve Bannon is in the Epstein files. I mean, would it be that much of a shock to the public if all of the files were released? Would there be some material in there that would just be beyond the pale that the public would not be able to look at, or you couldn't put it on television, obviously. How could that be handled? I suppose if they were just put out?
- [13:08]
Julie K. Brown
I don't think that you want to put videos of young girls out there like that, but I think. Think that there were probably reports done, investigative people who were on this case who who wrote reports that describe what they were looking at, for example, you know, without, you know, showing the, the, the graphic nature of it. So there's a lot of investigative reports. I mean, the FBI vault is filled with thousands and thousands and thousands of pages that are all either heavily redacted or in, you know, code. You know, essentially they're unreadable. And I can't believe that some of those pages can't be unredacted or because they're just standard investigative reports. We went to place a, to interview a possible victim and here is what she said. And you don't name who she is, but you can say what she said. Or we interviewed this potential person who worked for Epstein and here is what he said. It's sort of silly after all these years to redact some of this stuff because in some of these reports they even redact Epstein's name. I mean, it's silly. So you could tell the redactions were just done, I don't know, back then, maybe it was, that was the way it was done. But certainly that they can release some of that material now.
- [14:35]
Jim Acosta
And you think if some of that information were unredacted, we would know a whole lot more about people who were the perpetrators in all of this, who were a part of Epstein's network of abusing these young girls?
- [14:47]
Julie K. Brown
Yes, yes, I think we do. And also it will be interesting to see after it became known that there was a cover up and then the US attorney in New York reopened the case in 2019, they did a lot more investigative work. So who knows what else is there, who else they interviewed, who else? By that time, especially after Epstein was gone, there could have been tons more people that came forward who had been afraid. Victims, witnesses, for example, who were afraid to talk because Epstein, you know, we don't know if they, if he threatened, he made everybody sign non disclosure agreements. So, you know, some of those people might have been more free to talk.
- [15:32]
Jim Acosta
Yeah. And do we know everything that needs to be known about the flight logs, the so called flight logs about the trips to the island? No, it's all opaque. No, it's, it's mostly opaque.
- [15:46]
Julie K. Brown
Yeah, we only have a portion of the flight logs. I don't think we'll see the rest of the flight logs because they're kept by the pilots and these were from years and years ago and they're probably destroyed by now. If any pilot had any of that information, I would have thought, I would think it behooves him to get rid of it. But look There were a lot of people that went on those flights, you know, and, and by the way, the other thing is Epstein made a lot of money from a lot of people. How did he get his, you know, to me it's always about follow the money. Right? And so you have to look at who Epstein was getting money from and I, I have to wonder, and the public should ask, did the FBI, did the Department of Justice ever look at his, Epstein's banking and his bank accounts and see who was paying him and then look, take it a step further and find out why were they paying him all this money?
- [16:43]
Jim Acosta
Right? Because I mean, he was, it was almost like a talented Mr. Ripley type of situation here. And that he was, he was, he was using some of this as leverage to hold people over a barrel and make money off of them. And so, but we don't, but that those leads haven't been followed or if they have been followed, we just don't, I suppose that information might be in the files. We just don't know.
- [17:04]
Julie K. Brown
We don't know. And there, you know, from the very beginning, you know, there were so many things, avenues that they could have pursued that it seemed like they didn't even bother pursuing because he, he knew people. You know, he hired big time lawyers, private investigators. He went after the prosecutors. You know, he went after the police chief and the, and the detective that first started investigating them. That was his M.O. he went after people that tried and this statement that they put out saying there's no credible evidence of blackmailing. Well, what do you consider credible evidence? I mean, look, he's not going to send an email to somebody that you're going to be able to get off his computer that says if you don't give me a million dollars, I'm going to release a video of you with so and so. That wasn't, that wasn't, that's not how this works. It's, it's an unspoken, you know, what I have, you know, so wink, wink.
- [18:03]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, yeah. Well, the other thing, Julie, is, I mean you, you know, blew the lid off of what was going on, how the authorities kind of let a lot of these victims down in South Florida. You know, since the Herald published your, your work. In November 2018, a federal judge ruled the non prosecution agreement brokered by then South Florida U.S. attorney Alexander Acosta, no relation, was illegal. And on July 6, Epstein was arrested on sex trafficking charges in New York State. On July 12th, Acosta, Alex Acosta, no, no relation, resigned as US Secretary of Labor. I always thought it was Strange that he became the Labor Secretary, that Donald Trump made him the Labor Secretary. I mean, why was he made the labor.
- [18:50]
Julie K. Brown
That was almost the impetus for me to do my investigation to begin with. I had already been looking at the case because when Trump was running for, when he was running for president, there was a lot of stuff out there about this woman who had filed a civil lawsuit against him and Epstein claiming that she had been raped by Trump. And you know, I remember there were a couple of columnists that put out, you know, that put out a column that said, why are we not looking at this lawsuit that this woman filed claiming that Trump had raped her. And so I started sort of picking away at it then. And then by that time I knew Alex Acosta had been the prosecutor that sort of let him off the hook. And then he was nominated for Labor Secretary. And at that point I thought, this is really strange. I really, we really need to look at this even more. So I just started like a cold case detective sort of getting all the files and looking at everything from top to bottom.
- [19:56]
Jim Acosta
And, and it was in that work that the, it was a result of that work that the federal judge ruled that this non prosecutor agreement was illegal.
- [20:04]
Julie K. Brown
Right? Well, it wasn't. You know, I have to give the lawyers that fought that case a lot of credit because they had been fighting that case for 10 years, you know, eight years. When I took it up, they had been, they had filed so much in that case. And it helped my story because a lot of the discovery in that case helped me see what, you know, the time frame and what happened when and how Epstein got away with everything. Because it was sort of like, it was this big puzzle that needed to be, you know, in legal jargon, that needed to be put together. But the lawyers actually fought that they had that lawsuit. And I did think it helped that I wrote my story that the judge, probably because he had been sitting on that case for a long time, that he finally made a decision.
- [20:52]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, no, I mean, I remember the day when, when Trump named Alex Acosta the Labor Secretary. I was at the press conference and he looked at me and he said. And we made sure that he wasn't related to you, Jim. He said that to me at a press conference, talking about Alex Costa. But anyway, and he's not related to me. But anyway. At the end of the day, though, the real tragedy in all of this is that so many young ladies and girls were absolutely let down by our government, by the prosecutors, by the police, by the cops, by the feds, just Absolutely let down. And what. What makes me kind of a little furious about all of this is there were so many MAGA influencers for years who were saying, release the Epstein files. I mean, all the way up to J.D. vance and Donald Trump. I mean, they were just making political hay out of it during the campaign, saying, release the Epstein files. And in all of that, I have to think that some of those victims were given some hope that maybe someday this stuff would come out. And now some of these same MAGA influencers are saying, well, let's just fire Pam Bondi, and said they sort of taken the heat off of Donald Trump a little bit. But at the end of the day, so many of these young victims were just absolutely let down.
- [22:03]
Julie K. Brown
Yeah, yeah, they suffered so much, and they were let down by a number of people. I. I do want to correct that. The police in Palm beach were. Were not among them. The police really tried to bring charges, but they were stymied by first the local state attorney and then by a cost of the federal attorney. And. But other than that. And also they were let down in some cases by their own attorneys that they hired in hopes that they would get justice. The prosecutors, sometimes their own families turned against them. You know, they were really went through unbelievable trauma. And I don't really actually like to think about it, because it still kind of hurts my heart when I think about everything. And as, you know, Virginia, who was the most. Virginia Giuffre, who was the most vocal and seemingly the most brave one of them all for really naming names. She did name a number of names of some prominent men, and unfortunately, she has, you know, passed away, committed suicide on spec. And it's hard to know.
- [23:16]
Jim Acosta
Heartbreaking.
- [23:17]
Julie K. Brown
It was trying to do the right thing in the face of incredible obstacles. Really wasn't able to make it.
- [23:28]
Jim Acosta
You know, and at the end of the day, we don't know the truth. We don't know the full truth of all of this. Because powerful men were the culprits in this.
- [23:37]
Julie K. Brown
That's correct, essentially. That's exactly correct. And we should question, even if Trump is not part of this conspiracy, even if Trump himself was not involved, we should question the other names that might be in there, because they could be his friends, for example, or people that have pressured him in some way or another to keep these files secret, it might not just be him. It could be people that know they did something wrong with, were involved and said to him, you can't release these files because there are a lot of powerful people in here. I mean, we just don't know.
- [24:20]
Jim Acosta
Yeah. And if. I know you probably have to get going, but if Ghislaine Maxwell could talk, if somehow she could talk.
- [24:31]
Julie K. Brown
Yeah. I don't know why she's been so quiet. I. I've written her a couple times. I'm probably not the first person she really wants to talk to.
- [24:43]
Jim Acosta
No.
- [24:43]
Julie K. Brown
But I'm certainly willing to listen to what she has to say. She probably knows a lot.
- [24:51]
Jim Acosta
Probably knows a lot. Well, Julie, Ron, thank you so much for what you do, all your reporting. You're the first person I've been thinking about all week long. I gotta get Julianne. I gotta get Julie on, because you know, this case up and down and left and right, and your work has just been invaluable in all of this. And I have to admit, I will plead guilty here that I didn't take this case as seriously as perhaps I should have. And I wish I had even more so. And so when I saw what Trump said earlier, I mean, I took it seriously, but I perhaps didn't delve into it, perhaps as much as I should have. And when I saw what they tried to do this week and trying to bury it, I thought, my goodness, you know, the truth needs to come out in all of this. It just needs to come out.
- [25:34]
Julie K. Brown
Yeah. It makes you wonder, like you said, even if you didn't think that there was something there before now, you might question there is something there now.
- [25:44]
Jim Acosta
Right.
- [25:44]
Julie K. Brown
Sort of. In that category. I mean, there's been already a lot that we know. So even though I know there were other people involved, you wonder whether the FBI and the Justice Department really went there, you know, went after those people, which to me, it doesn't seem like they did, but their names could still be there, you know.
- [26:04]
Jim Acosta
Well, Julie, thank you very much. I hope we can call on you again, but really appreciate the time. Excellent work as always. Great to see you. Thanks so much.
- [26:11]
Julie K. Brown
Thank you.
- [26:12]
Jim Acosta
All right, that's the great investigative journalist, Julie Brown of the Miami Herald. What would we do without reporters like Julie Brown? I mean, you know, she's won a lot of awards. She's gotten a lot of acclaim, rightly so, for the work that she does. But at the end of the day, you know, she reminds me of why I wanted to become a journalist. Because you do. You want to help people. I mean, you want. It's not just about pursuing the truth and getting the truth out there to readers and viewers and so on. In many ways, you. You want to help the people who are involved in these stories. And you feel it as if it's a public service, that you want to get people that help. And, you know, I just. It's just remarkable, all of the. The knowledge that she has about that case. It's just an extremely important case. I want to bring in Olivia Troy, because Olivia and I have been talking about this case and just sort of, you know, from the perspective here in Washington. You know, she. When she and I both saw that Cabinet meeting, what was it on Tuesday where Trump tried to shut down those questions and say, why are you still asking about Jeffrey Epstein with all of this other stuff going on? Why are you asking about that? And then Pam Bondi saying, oh, I was just talking about the files. When she hears the attorney general. I mean, usually attorney generals, they're much more precise and careful in their language. And she says, oh, I was talking about the files in general. I wasn't talking about the actual list. And it just makes you wonder what is going on here, what is happening here? So trying to bring in Olivia here. She'll be joining us in just a few moments. But just to recap a couple of things, at the top of all, I just dove right into the discussion with Julie Brown there, but Steve Bannon was saying earlier today he wants the files released. That's one of the other big updates in the story. There's Olivia right there. Hey, Olivia, how are you?
- [27:58]
Olivia Troy
Hi.
- [27:59]
Jim Acosta
I don't know if you heard any of that interview I did with Julie Brown, but just unbelievably fascinating. And I wish I had been as immersed in this story over the years as she has been to some extent, because it's kind of unbelievable the way this is all spilled out in front of all of us this week, the way Pam Bondi and the Justice Department tried to paper over this or sweep it under the rug, and the way Trump just blew up. You and I were talking about this earlier today. You and I both know when Donald Trump has kind of an oh, shit moment, or he's having one of those moments where you can tell he is nervous about something. He doesn't really hide it that well. And on Tuesday, when he said, why are you still asking about Jeffrey Epstein? I said, oh, boy. I said, something's going on here. My experience covering him, there's just. I don't know what it is. I can't put my finger on it, but something's going on.
- [28:56]
Olivia Troy
Yeah, they definitely pushed a button. He definitely wanted to brush over it as fast as possible. And he was clearly upset about it, which is always a Tell for Donald Trump, usually that there's something more going on in the background. So, you know, it's interesting. It's just, you know, I think you have a bunch of conspiracy theorists that are now running the US Government, and now they're facing the reality of the situation. It's coming back to haunt them. And I, you know, I'll be curious to see how this plays out.
- [29:24]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, I mean, you're right.
- [29:27]
Olivia Troy
Smells rotten in the state of Denmark, is all I'm saying.
- [29:29]
Jim Acosta
No question. They've been, it's just, yeah, they've been hoisted on their own petard, their own conspiracy theorist petard. There's no question about it. And the other thing that, and you and I have both picked up on this, and the Trump people tried to do this, and now that we've been watching them and observing them for years and years, now, we see it when they try to do it, when they try to put out these investigations on John Brennan and James Comey, I mean, it's just sort of like there should be like a little chyron that appears on Fox News. Distraction alert. Trump distraction alert.
- [30:04]
Olivia Troy
Yeah, that was clearly smoke and mirrors. When I saw all that hit, you know, Donald Trump suddenly is like calling out Putin. I also thought that that was part of it, the Ukraine stuff. I think it's anything and everything that they could possibly create a headline off of to draw attention away from this is what they're going to do. And so, you know, it'll be interesting. I'll be, I'll be watching, you know, what's gonna break tomorrow that's gonna be flashy enough to try to continue to shift this, which is why I think, I mean, all of this. I think it's important just to continue to keep track of it. And plus, look at what's happening in MAGA world, the imploding of all these influencers.
- [30:42]
Jim Acosta
I mean, what do you think of this? The way that Laura Loomer, you know, she's, you know, she doesn't want to ruin her clout in Trump world. So she's not calling for Trump's head, but she's saying that Pam Bondi should be fired. I mean, I thought that that was too cute by half and a whole host of others.
- [30:57]
Olivia Troy
She's calling the shots.
- [30:57]
Julie K. Brown
Right?
- [30:58]
Olivia Troy
She is the person who calls who gets fired. She's done it in the, in the federal government. He's firing people. The National Security Council. So I wonder what Pam Bondi must be thinking now. I think you and I talked about this. I think we need to host. I'd like to co host. I'm telling you right now, I'm inviting you to this. I'd like to co host the pay for view between the Laura. Laura Loomer and the Pam Bondi knockdown drag out of how this is going to play out. Bring your popcorn. Like, I even brought popcorn for you.
- [31:25]
Jim Acosta
No, exactly. No. And I'm glad you brought the popcorn because I've been popping the popcorn, too. And I mean, the question that I have is, okay, you throw Pam Bondi under the bus, you know, in MAGA world, okay. Oh, case closed. You know, we can move on now. We threw Pam Bondi under the bus. Pam Bondi goes on the outside with all of this knowledge and information that she has about what's going on here, where they were all, like, during the 2024 campaign, release the Epstein files. You know, it was almost like they were dragging the banner behind the plane over the beach. Release the Epstein files. And now, you know, they don't want to do it. So my guess is, is that they fire Bondi. And then what, they make her ambassador to Greenland or something?
- [32:05]
Olivia Troy
I mean, you know, they usually promote them up, right? I mean, we saw this happen with a couple of people the first time around, so. And I don't. I think that they are going to want to keep her close just in case there is. I mean, she probably knows a lot of stuff by now. So I'm thinking they're going to want to make sure that they keep her in the circle still, because you don't want someone who's running the DOJ when there's whistleblowers coming forward right now and they've handed over actual, like, text and evidence, from what I've seen reported in the New York Times, where there is honestly a politicization of the Department of Justice and what they're doing in terms of the courts and things like that. She knows all of it. She sits at the very top of it. So I think they're going to be walking on eggshells on this one. It's going to be interesting. But, you know, I'm curious. I, I actually, you know, what does Elon Musk really know, is what I'm thinking? Because he doesn't seem to want to let the Epstein thing go.
- [32:58]
Jim Acosta
Yes.
- [32:59]
Olivia Troy
I don't know.
- [33:00]
Jim Acosta
I know. I mean, when he says, you know, Donald Trump is in the Epstein files, that's why they have been released. And I think it was it yesterday or the day before Steve Bannon is in the Epstein files, Now, Steve Bannon is out there today saying there should be a special counsel and just release all of the Epstein files. This has become the MAGA hot potato. Nobody wants to hold it right now. And they were the ones who were fanning the flames of this. And just to get back to my Julie Brown conference, this is part of the reason why. Maybe it's not precise to say I didn't take it seriously, but I just thought, oh, Epstein, he must have committed suicide. Oh, it's a terrible, tragic story. There's important people on the list. Maybe one day it'll come out. I didn't. When they. When they put out the DOJ memo, was it Sunday night or where they leaked it out to? I think it was Alex Eisenstadt, who's a political reporter. I think he had it first, which I thought was curious. Alex is a great reporter, but I thought that was curious. And it just said to me, like, oh, and then Alex Jones is out there tearing his hair out, tearing his shirt off, whatever he does, and he's crying, how could this be? How could this be? It just felt like the whole thing changed.
- [34:07]
Olivia Troy
Real winner there. Yeah.
- [34:09]
Jim Acosta
Not that I'm putting myself in league with him, but I know. And Marjorie Taylor Greene today just tweeted, release the Epstein files. So, again, I don't know. Or the Epstein. She called it the Epstein client list. She tweeted, release the Epstein client list. Not that anything she says can, you know, can be taken to the bank.
- [34:26]
Olivia Troy
But the sad part is that just really is, like, that memo and all of the lead up to this and the fact that these people are now running these organizations. Right? I mean, we have Pam Bondi as doj Cash Patel, who sat there and spread the conspiracies, all these people who grifted off of these lies, because that's what they did. They built a base. They. They, like, got their podcast funded off of it, likely. I mean, they had this huge following. Now they're actually in charge. And I think it just continues to erode at the credibility of the Department of Justice and law enforcement, which is what seems to be pervasive in this administration. That, to me, is just so frustrating, because yet again, here we are, and this is a big deal, I think. You know, and honestly, my heart breaks for the victims that this continues to be part of this conspiracy charade, because there are real victims here. And this is. You know, it just reminds me of everything that happened with Pizzagate and other conspiracy theories and how people get impacted by them. And now here we are and like, this is a crisis of our own making. All of these influencers, the MAGA circles, the Trump circles, they created this monster. They were using it for their political advantage. In quotes, I say that because the rest of us could see right through it, but. And to attack their political opponents, and where did it get them? And got them to where they are today. And I don't think this is going away anytime soon.
- [35:49]
Jim Acosta
No. And it's a great point that you make about the conspiracy theory grifter nexus here, because to some extent, yeah, some of them are conspiracy theorists and they just believe in conspiracy theories and cuckoo bird stuff, but some of them are just grifting off of these conspiracy theories. And Donald Trump can be both of these at the same time. I do think he is a conspiracy theory cuckoo bird. There's no question about it. But I will tell you, I mean, just based on my reporting and the reporting of others on the birther conspiracy theory, there was a moment where it became apparent to him, it became obvious to him that Barack Obama was born in Hawaii, that he was not from Kenya or wherever else. And I mean, we reported, I reported this along with others, that Trump knew it and he still grifted off of it. He still tried to make political hay out of it because he knew it worked with his base. And so that tells me right there that this is obviously what's been going on in MAGA world over the last few years with regards to this Epstein case. And that makes it even the more sickening because they were preying on these awful, awful cases of child rape, pedophilia and child pornography. It is disgusting. And they deserve to be hoisted on this petard. They deserve to be put through their meat grinder and the ringer on this.
- [37:09]
Olivia Troy
Yeah, absolutely. And I think it's pervasive, right? It's a pattern of behavior that we've now seen. So you can kind of pivot, talk, new subject. And it is how this machine and this cycle has worked and now they're in it, right? I mean, they're definitely in the middle of. And he's in the hot seat, and they know it. And I was curious, what is it that is behind this, all of this?
- [37:34]
Jim Acosta
I just. I wish I knew.
- [37:35]
Olivia Troy
I wonder what it is.
- [37:37]
Jim Acosta
I wonder what it is, too. And I'm saying that in a genuine way, not in a mocking trolley kind of way. When he popped off the way he did the other day, I said, there's something more. Well, what's that all about? What the hell's going on Here. I just. Like, if I had thought that he is at the center of this, I mean, I certainly would have been doing more reporting on this years ago. But when he acted the way he. And yes, of course, we've seen all the photographs of he and Epstein together and so on. It's disgusting. But that doesn't prove. Just proves that they, you know, clowned around in a sleazy kind of way. It doesn't prove anything else. But when he popped off the way he didn't. Of course, that doesn't prove anything. It just made me say, what is that?
- [38:19]
Olivia Troy
Well, I just. I really do think that there's the. The must factor is significant here.
- [38:24]
Jim Acosta
Yeah.
- [38:24]
Olivia Troy
Um, I think. I just don't think that you just come out of. With that out of the blue. And he's brought it up again. He's not letting it go. There's. I just feel like there's something more. Right. And I mean, let's be honest, he's got one of the biggest allies who is in that circle embedded in it, working for him. I don't know if she's quit yet or how that relationship is working on between Stephen Miller and Katie Miller since she's chosen the Elon Musk route to work with.
- [38:50]
Jim Acosta
That's very true.
- [38:51]
Olivia Troy
I just wonder. You have some people who are in the center of the absence of all of us, who are probably part of the whole coordination effort on this thing. I can imagine that there's a lot of chaos going on in these circles of how they're going to mitigate this situation, but, yeah, it'll be interesting.
- [39:09]
Jim Acosta
No, there's no question about it. And I do want to talk a little bit about something else that I know is important to you, and that is what has taken place in Texas, these. These awful flash floods that. It looks like the death toll is up to around 120 people, but dozens more still unaccounted for. They're still trying to get their arms around what took place there. And you're from Texas, Olivia. I mean, I worked. I worked there many years ago. I know that this flash flooding danger in Texas, it is absolutely. It is real. It is a real danger there. And I have to think that it is going to be supercharged by climate change here in the coming years. But your thoughts on the federal response? Because it sounds as though the National Weather Service, despite their staff shortages, was doing its job in the wee hours of the morning and they were putting out messages. It sounds like the local authorities perhaps weren't seizing on those messages. And getting the word out as quickly as they should have. But. And then the fema, it sounds as though it did not get to the scene to help out as quickly as they should have. But it does raise this issue of, okay, if the National Weather Service did do its job there and the federal government did do its job at that moment, doesn't that make the case for not cutting the crap out of these agencies and cutting them down to the bone?
- [40:25]
Olivia Troy
Well, I think that's the main underlying narrative here with this situation in Texas. It's heartbreaking. It's been horrific. I've actually, I've honestly gone from sadness to anger because I feel like these little kids, I mean, this could have been prevented. This could have been prevented. And this should have been one of the happiest summers of their lives, like sharing with friends. And instead this horrific tragedy happens. And I think the fact that they voted down that house bill in Texas, that could have prevented this. I mean, yes, I don't believe that the weather service failed. I mean, they put out the forecast. Did it come in the middle of the night? That could be, yes, debatable of like, who's going to see it? How are they going to follow up? But I do have concerns about like the follow through and the coordination locally on what happened here where you're not sounding the alarm. And that's why they do need sirens. And that's why, you know, I think it's important to kind of figure out the construct here. And the more worrisome thing is to me is that like, they're cutting jobs from these organizations, they're cutting funds from fema. They're making it harder, they're making it harder to meet the threshold for female. You know, now you're reporting that, you know, FEMA didn't deploy for two days or there's delays, that there's employees are actually saying like, hey, we, we were ready. And I know fema, look, I've deployed on the ground with fema. I was there for Katrina. I have sent, I actually have been one of the biggest proponents if, you know, people have worked with me and the intelligence community. I've actually actively covered shortages on my own teams to send people out to deploy with FEMA and support their operations. Because I think that it's one of the most important experiences to have because when you're out there in disaster relief, it really, you are really in the heart of America helping other Americans. And it really teaches you how the disaster relief system works. And I think for these people that are Making the decisions, cutting this. It's because they've never actually worked in the disaster relief space and don't understand it. And so you have this situation where they're getting the organizations, they're getting noaa, they're cutting climate. Thank you for mentioning climate change. Yeah, I feel like that should be a headline right now with this flood. And it's not.
- [42:31]
Jim Acosta
It's not.
- [42:32]
Olivia Troy
They're not going to talk about it and Republicans certainly aren't going to talk about it because they've been gutting all the research and funding and, and that is upsetting because that is, that was.
- [42:40]
Jim Acosta
Why they wanted to go after NOAA in Project 2025. If people go back and look at Project 2025, the reason why they want to go after Noah is because they did not like the fact that they were investigating and analyzing the effects of climate change.
- [42:53]
Olivia Troy
Yes, actually, yes. Go, go to page 166 and page 186. It'll go down the FEMA. It's sad that I know these things. That's how much I've read this thing. But it's really upsetting your policy wonk. That's why, you know, I am. And I'm sitting there looking at this and checking off the list of what they're doing and preparing for it and then going like, okay, how do we raise the alarm here to prevent what's going to happen to these people? But I think it's just upsetting because the people that they're hurting are. A lot of these people are in these rural communities. These, these, these communities are going to be hard as hit. And like Senator Thom Tillis did an interview yesterday where he talked about these FEMA cuts and he was very upfront and honest about how this is going to be critical and it really is going to hurt Americans. And he saw it because, you know, he saw it in Asheville, North Carolina. He's seen this kind of thing. And so I think, yeah, two of.
- [43:43]
Jim Acosta
The biggest tragedies we've had in the last year or so are in red, like red.
- [43:48]
Olivia Troy
Red leadership states, so to speak.
- [43:49]
Jim Acosta
Red leadership states. Hurricane Helene, which, you know, of course ravaged coastal areas, but then it came up into western North Carolina and flooded out those mountain towns, including Asheville, North Carolina, which is a beautiful city. Same, not the exact same thing, but a similar situation that you had flash flooding rise up in Kerrville, Texas, and cause unbelievable damage. Doesn't have to be a hurricane, folks. Doesn't have to be a strong tropical storm that causes this kind of horrific damage anymore, just flash flooding, being supercharged by climate change. And what I was told by, by a climatologist and by experts in this field around the time of Hurricane Helene was that because, you know, there was so much saturation in the ground in places like Atlanta and so on from all the heavy rains that they had had. That, that storm, when it got, when it got over parts of northern Georgia, it soaked up that moisture and dumped it in western North Carolina. And so we just. This is why you need climate experts. This is why you need meteorology experts working for the government.
- [44:48]
Olivia Troy
Yeah. And they're cutting that. We're not going to have that. And so I think the question is when they cut these funds. The other part of it is that Project 2025. And I know a lot of conservative thinking on this, and I just can say, having worked in disaster relief directly and some of the responses, especially in the White House, it just doesn't work that way. You can't. They say push it to the states, they say push the coordination of the states. And look, yes, we should be building resilience in our communities. That is a local responsibility and state responsibility. However, when it comes to deep coordination. And you have a storm that's hitting three different states in a region, which happens a lot. You know, we've seen that in the Southeast, seen in Florida, we've had these big hurricanes hit. It is very complicated to sit there. And that's why organizations like FEMA exist, where I've sat at the headquarters and I've sat in the Civic is like the conference calls where you have all these regions coming together and they're looking at supplies and they're shipping them off and they're coordinating across the region because it becomes a regional thing. And so then it's a question of like, who's the quarter pack then in this situation, if you're going to gut this, who's going to run this coordinated response at the top for all of these communities? And I think it's hard because policy wise, you know, I've lived in, I'm knee deep in it. But we've got to explain this to Americans and voters because that is what's happening to them. And you need to, you know, we need to explain it to them in concrete terms that this is how you're going to be affected. This is.
- [46:15]
Jim Acosta
Yeah. No, and the other thing is, I mean, which states, I mean, can Florida pay for disaster response to multiple hurricanes over and over again that cause billions of dollars in damage? I mean, has anybody gone to Ron DeSantis and said, hey, they're thinking about getting, getting rid of female. Are you okay with that? How are you going to handle that? Ron DeSantis? I mean, it's kind of unbelievable. And something tells me that if they get rid of FEMA and they allocate money to the states, there are going to be fights between the states over how much money got allocated here and how much money got allocated there. And some of these states are still going to be going to the federal government and saying, please help us out. That's my prediction.
- [46:53]
Olivia Troy
And the other thing is that they want to privatize, like the National Weather Service, right? There's this whole push for that, and it's Republican agenda. Look, I am a fiscal conservative, so to speak, or I guess I used to be. But I believe in fiscal conservatism, but I don't believe in fiscal conservatism that actually kills Americans, which is what I think. This is what will lead to this. That's what it's going to hurt. It's going to cost lives. And I think that when you do this, I mean, how is this going to work? And I actually wrote about this in my recent article because I said, can you imagine when you're looking for a weather alert, you're sitting there looking it up and whatever, and then it's behind a paywall or something, and you're like, wait a second, there's dark cloud. Like, is that a tornado coming my way? You're looking it up and it's like, please hold. Please enter your login or please pay $5 so I can give you the actual weather. I mean, I think basic things like that are just. I just, I don't understand the mentality about that other than people profiting off of it and that.
- [47:48]
Jim Acosta
The other thing too is, I mean, that's a risk. I'm sorry, but Republicans have to lay to rest this notion of being fiscally conservative. They're not fiscally.
- [47:59]
Olivia Troy
They're not.
- [47:59]
Jim Acosta
They're debt addicts. I can't remember the politician who once described debt as economic cocaine. But that is what it is for the Republicans. And they have been snorting it up for the last 25, 30 years. And every time they get into power, they explode. The deficit and debt, it keeps going up, up, up. And I'm sorry, you know, you come to Washington, D.C. and you say, oh, I'm going to. I'm going to tackle the debt. You know, I'm going to get a handle on this stuff. I'm going to stand my ground. And then they pass the debt. Just keep passing those bills that raise the debt ceiling and raise the debt in this country. And how do they. And what do they do? What do they do? They give tax cuts to the very wealthy in this country who, if you were to raise taxes on them just a little bit, just a teeny weeny little bit, it would help pay down the deficit and the debt in this country, and we wouldn't saddle future generations with the potential for financial catastrophe. I mean, that's what's building in this country if we keep running up the nation's credit cards in this fashion.
- [49:04]
Olivia Troy
Yeah, well, look, I look at things like what they're doing right now. I believe in a strong defense in military. Right. I think we should have a strong defense system. I believe in that. I believe in national security. But I also believe that the money that we're gonna spend on this Golden Dome idea that they keep pushing and pedaling, that they've already allocated for. I've talked to sources in the Pentagon. It's allocated. It's actually really happening. Much to the appalling to many other people who are watching this happening. Why can't we take that Golden Dome funding and actually spend that money on building resilience domestically here for natural disasters that are happening, for communities that are being impacted? Because that's actually Homeland Security. That's actually protecting the kids security and safety.
- [49:50]
Jim Acosta
And part of me thinks that Donald Trump just likes the Golden Dome thing because it has the word golden in it.
- [49:56]
Olivia Troy
Yeah, it's like the golden toilet, you.
- [49:58]
Jim Acosta
Know, I mean, it's like he's gold. Member from Austin Powers. I mean, let's just face it. He just wants everything to be gold. And I'm sorry, but he's. You know, he. Not to go off on a tangent here, but he's kind of turned the White House into the poor man's Versailles. You know, he. He leans back in his chair and he talks about, oh, we put the gold leafing and the. The gold etching in all these different places, and it's just tacky. It's like, you know, Graceland, but worse. Tackier.
- [50:25]
Julie K. Brown
Yeah, I know.
- [50:26]
Olivia Troy
I don't know why.
- [50:27]
Jim Acosta
The shag carpeting in the bathroom and everything.
- [50:29]
Olivia Troy
You know, I'm really curious to see how that works out, because I think they're destroying the Rose Garden too, aren't they?
- [50:34]
Jim Acosta
I mean, it's all, oh, my God, the Rose Garden.
- [50:37]
Olivia Troy
Oh, my Lord, it is horrible. Not that it was in great shape when they were there the first Time around. But that's. I'm not going to get into that. But I was kind of depressing when I'd walk by it. But they never really tend to at the garden.
- [50:48]
Jim Acosta
But no, I remember. Well, not to go off on another tangent, but I remember I was in the White House basement because that's where they kept part of the press and that's where they kept me at my network because, you know, they thought we belonged in the basement. No, I'm just kidding. No, but there were. There were times when it would rain so much on the grounds of the White House that water would be literally coming into the basement of our press area. And I remember April Ryan. I should get her on to talk about this sometime. She would be in her little radio booth in the press basement and there would just be water coming down the walls of her little. And it's getting into the carpeting and it's soaking it up everywhere and getting all moldy smelling. It was absolutely disgusting. And I'm thinking to myself, and this happened when I was there covering Donald Trump. And I'm thinking to myself, you know, this is a guy who builds golf courses and hotels, but can't run the damn plumbing in his own White House.
- [51:41]
Olivia Troy
Yeah. Or can't spend the money on that. But we're going to build whatever this ballroom is going to be like that you and I will probably never see. I don't think we're going to get an invite.
- [51:50]
Jim Acosta
I mean, he's got Mar a Lago, he's got a ballroom there. I've been inside of it, you know.
- [51:56]
Olivia Troy
Yeah. So I just, I think it's absolutely ridiculous. It's also just such a waste of money, even though he says that taxpayer dollars are not going to pay for it.
- [52:04]
Jim Acosta
But yeah, sure, it's like the Beverly Hillbillies going to Versailles. I mean, that's really. That's kind of what he's done with the gold anyway, with the gold stuff everywhere. It just reminds me now we've gone.
- [52:15]
Olivia Troy
Down the rabbit hole. I know somebody just asked where my hat was. We're not really getting to the tariff, but don't worry.
- [52:20]
Jim Acosta
Oh, that's true. We haven't even talked about this. We didn't really.
- [52:25]
Olivia Troy
I'm feeling like there's an episode coming of the taco.
- [52:29]
Jim Acosta
I'm so glad you brought the taco hat out. We should absolutely end on this, the taco hat. Because Trump told what, the Brazilians that he's going to put 25% or 50% tariffs. Is that right? On on the products coming in from Brazil. And they even say it in the letter. I will say, at least they were. They were brazen enough to be upfront about what they're doing in the letter. They're doing it because they're pissed about Bolsonaro, the mad dictator of Brazil who tried to orchestrate a coup to stay in power. They're putting the tariffs on Brazil just, Just. Just to punish Brazil for prosecuting Bolsonaro.
- [53:04]
Olivia Troy
Yeah. Which is ridiculous. We're meddling in another state's affairs now. Legitimately meddling on that. This is how we're bullying people. Because, you know, dictators gotta. Gotta stick together, I guess.
- [53:15]
Jim Acosta
Yeah. But Trump, you know, Trump always chickens out. Taco. You know, this is why Olivia's wearing the taco hat. I have to think that at some point he's gonna chicken out on the. On the Brazilian tariffs, just like he chickens out on all these other Brazilian tariffs. But. And I will say, I was listening to Lawrence o' Donnell last night, and he was really having a good time tearing apart the letter that Trump sent to the Brazilians with the odd capitalizations and stuff. It's so true. I've covered Trump for years. Why does he capitalize words in the middle of sentences? And I just will never understand.
- [53:49]
Olivia Troy
I just. I don't know. Is it because in his head, he's yelling at the person? That's what I've always pictured when he does, like the. The tweets or the X posts or social media. I always picture it that he's just like. He's probably. I like yelling at himself. This is what I would, like, think about now. I have some times I'd be like, did he just yell at us through the tweet? Like, when he was, like, yelling about things that were happening, he's just yelling at himself in the room. And he thinks that if he types in big letters, people will hear him more because he doesn't really understand reality because he lives in a different universe than we do. But I don't know. I mean, I don't know. Here we are.
- [54:19]
Jim Acosta
Where the chemicals and the gold paint are getting to him. I don't know what it is. You have too much paint. Bad things can happen. But. Well, Olivia, great to see you, as always. Thanks so much. We could keep going on like this, but I know we probably can.
- [54:33]
Olivia Troy
I mean, I got plenty of popcorn. I'm waiting for the knockout drea. We've covered a lot. We've covered a lot.
- [54:37]
Jim Acosta
We covered a lot. But I will say, I mean, Going back to the beginning of the conversation, this Epstein thing. I mean, it's summer in Washington. Perfect time for a scandal. This is the way it usually goes, you know, I just. What the hell's going on?
- [54:51]
Olivia Troy
There's. There's more to this story than meets the eye. That's. That's where my bet is. But we shall see.
- [54:57]
Jim Acosta
We shall see. I agree with you 100%. Great to see, Olivia. Thanks a lot. Thanks for bailing me out today, for coming on. I appreciate it, as always. And I have your Lincoln thing up here in my place here. I have to give that back to you. I have to give that back to you.
- [55:10]
Olivia Troy
No, that was yours. You can keep it. I got counted harder because I had to represent the beyhive I heard about.
- [55:16]
Jim Acosta
We didn't get to talk about Beyonce. Shoot, Beyonce was fun.
- [55:19]
Olivia Troy
That's a whole other episode I could go on.
- [55:23]
Jim Acosta
We'll do Beyonce next time. We'll do it next time. All right, great. Great to see you. Great job, Olivia. Thanks a lot. Appreciate it. Okay. I can't top, you know, gold references, golden dome references, and taco hat references. I mean, it just seems to me this has been a hell of a week for Donald Trump. It's been a hell of a week, you know, and we didn't even get into. He was talking to the president of Liberia about speaking. There are times when I'm like, am I going to wake up and was this a dream? Was this all a dream that the president of the United States is Donald Trump again? And he says these batshit crazy, foolish things, and I just have to wonder, you know, as I take my glasses off and put them back on, like, clark Kenton, please. I'm not putting myself on that pedestal. Don't. Don't. Don't accuse me of that. But I do remember at the end of the classic Superman film with Christopher Reeve back in the late 70s, which I just. I love that movie. It's one of my favorite movies. But anyway, Superman gets so upset that Lois Lane has died that he flies around planet Earth. What is it, like, a thousand Times Goes really, really fast. Thousand Times flies around planet Earth to see if he can turn back time so he can rescue Lois Lane and pull her out of the. You know, remember, the dirt falls on top of her and it looks like she's going to die and so on. And I just. There's a part of me that wishes I could fly, and I have a lot of dreams about flying. I don't know why that is. Maybe there's a Psychiatrist who's watching to tell me why I dream about flying all the time, but I wish I could just fly around the world a thousand times and somehow turn back the clock. I wish I could turn back the clock for us, everybody. But you know, when I saw what took place in the Cabinet meeting on Tuesday when he's. Why are you asking this question? Why are you asking this question about Jeffrey Epstein? I can't believe it. You know, and, and Pam Bonnie saying, well, Donald, I'm telling you, Mr. President, the, the Epstein files. I was just talking about the Epstein files. I don't know. I don't know nothing about no client list, Mr. President. I was just talking about the files, like the MLK files and the JFK files. She sounds like one of Ricky Bobby's girlfriends. I don't know why that is, but anyway, I should not succumb to that level. But she does sound like one of Ricky Bobby's girlfriends. I'm a racer's wife. I don't work. But anyway, when I saw all of that, I just thought for once, for once maybe we had a good week. Because it would be quite something. It would be quite something if they were hoisted on their conspiracy theorist petards, wouldn't it? Wouldn't it, finally, once and for all if they just had a little bit of comeuppance when it comes to peddling and grifting off of these ridiculous conspiracy theories over the years. So anyway, don't worry, I'm not going to try to impersonate Christa Reed anytime soon. But it's just a little thought on my mind. It would be wonderful if I could do that, but alas, I can't. I can go see the new Superman movie, which looks great, but that's about all I can do in the meantime. Thanks for that little rant there at the end and paying attention to all of that and me doing my Pam Bonnie impersonation. I will only do that at requests request time here on this show. But thanks everybody for watching. Want to thank once, once more Julie Brown for joining me today. She's terrific. The wonderful Olivia Choi for joining me today. She was terrific as well. And thanks to all of you for watching. I may not be on tomorrow. I'm going to be helping my dad tomorrow and I don't want to reveal anything more about that other than, well, I have to drive him out to West Virginia, but I don't want to say more than that. But in the meantime, thanks everybody for watching. Really appreciate it. Still reporting from Washington, I'm Jim Acosta. Have a good evening, everybody. Good night.