← The Jim Acosta Show
The Jim Acosta Show
James Carville on Trump, Musk and Mamdani and Florida Democratic Party Chair Nikki Fried on Alligator Alcatraz and DeSantis trying to mend fences with Trump.
00:58:15
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- [00:00]
James Carville
Foreign.
- [00:06]
Jim Acosta
Welcome, everybody, to the Jim Acosta show. It is Tuesday, and as you can see, my big guest today is James Carwell. James, great to see you as always. Thanks for joining me.
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James Carville
Oh, thanks, Jim, always. I always love doing your show. Straight Shooters Talk English. My kind of guy.
- [00:21]
Jim Acosta
Exactly. Right back at you. And, you know, I. My headline on today is that, you know, Trump's cruel summer could lead to a big MAGA bummer next year. I mean, they seem to think that they're on a cloud nine right now, having passed this, this big debt bill, big boulder of bullshit, as I've called it a couple of times. But when I was watching the votes come down in the Senate earlier today, James, I did not catch many high fives or atta boys. I mean, it was more like I and by, they voted for this thing and it looks like they're getting the hell out of town. I don't think that they were too, too pleased with how this legislation was looking. And I think they're, some of them are afraid this is going to come and bite them in the butt next year. What do you think?
- [00:59]
James Carville
Well, first of all, the data analyst on cnn, Harry Eaton, he literally, I thought he was going to have a meltdown about how impossible this is. He'd like, he tried to put it in some historical context and he said, yeah, there's a very kind of energetic guy. I think the longer it sits out there, the board rots. So now they had this excruciating thing in the Senate to get through by Vance's vote, and they got to go to the House and then they got a conference committee. And I think the Democrats are doing something really smart. Just drag it out as long as you can. Let this head of letter sit in the sunshine and just, it just rots. The more, the more it's out there. Yeah.
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Jim Acosta
And apparently, you know, Trump was out saying, we might not get this done by July 4th.
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James Carville
You know, it would have been worse probably, if they can't get something, if it just kind of falls apart and people just have a sense. But it's, it's like average of 26 points underwater. How can that not help you? I don't know, but that's a lot. 26 points is a lot. I don't care if you know what you're talking about. And it just, the more it sits there, the less people like it. And one of the things is, is just get all of the quotes all of the Republicans have said about what a horrible bill it is.
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Jim Acosta
Right.
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James Carville
You know, I voted for this, but I hate it.
- [02:28]
Jim Acosta
Well, and for the first time in a long time, and Susan Collins expressed concern and actually voted against something because usually she expresses the concern and then she doesn't vote for it.
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James Carville
She wouldn't have voted against it if she was the last vote.
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Jim Acosta
Well.
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James Carville
Look, you're, you know, I'll let you, I'll do, I'll, I'll take the bullet for you, Susan. There's no way Susan Collins would have the vote to kill it. I mean, she pulls out every. For the last 30 years.
- [02:57]
Jim Acosta
But, so, but as a Democratic strategist, James, I mean, you've looked at this kind of stuff for a long time. What element of this do you think is the most toxic for the Republicans? Is it the Medicaid cuts?
- [03:09]
James Carville
Actually, Della Volpe does the Harvard Youth poll now. This is among 18 to 30. But I can't believe that, you know, what kills people is the veterans cuts. Yeah, yeah. I'm not exactly sure. I think people think there's a certain element of fairness. Hey, look, we total these people if you do this, if we do this. And, but, but for, for whatever, you know, obviously the Medicaid, I mean, the amount of lobbying that's going to be going on by these rural hospitals as this thing goes forward is going to be just breathtaking. But I, I think that if you have a chance to, you know, when you have a chance to accentuate a couple things, I would definitely accentuate the cuts to veterans. And we're turning our back on our own people. And if they do that, and I think of people's attitude, well, if they do that to veterans, what would it do to me? Okay. You know, I mean, like, gee, and of course, the, anything, health care cut stuff, health insurance, anything in that is going to be enormous. And I would do, I'd take a, I would say it's going to make life more expensive for, for, you know, tens of millions. Americans are just going to have to be paying more. They're going to be paying more for health insurance. They're going to be paying more as a result of tariffs. Because we saw it in New York, the, the cost of living. We saw it. And that's why Harris lost. That's why all these Western governments fell, is the cost of living. And they're just making things more expensive for people.
- [04:41]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, well, and, and that is, that's why I think that this, this Trump bill, you know, it's going to end up being toxic next year because health care costs are going to go up. A lot of different Costs are going to go up and it's going to.
- [04:57]
James Carville
Be more toxic, Jim. And where it could really be toxic is going to be this November in Virginia. Yeah, there can be a lot of talk about it, you know, and you're not going to be able to say, well, it's a federal issue. It doesn't apply to us. That's not going to work. This ain't going to work. So, yeah, I agree. It's like I said, It's 26 points underwater, and every day it stays out there goes down another point. So just leave it out there for a while.
- [05:22]
Jim Acosta
And the other, the other issue is it's got to go back over to the House now. And you've got all these Freedom Caucus guys who, you know, they talk a big game about the national debt and everything. They, they were talking about this back in the 90s when Bill Clinton was balancing budgets and so on, and, and, and they're still talking about it. They're just not going to vote on it. It's sort of. What do they used to say about yellow dog Democrats? They bark, but they don't bite. Maybe that applied to somebody else. I can't remember. It's too far back. These Freedom Caucus guys bark, but they don't bite.
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James Carville
I think that Chiproy might be the greatest blowhard in the history of the United States Congress. He's always outraged. He always can't take it anymore. He always gets slapped around. You know, some of these, they're going to have to round us and stuff, and remember, it goes back to the House, and they're not going to vote the straight Senate version. So they'll pass some modification of that. And it's got to go like conference committee. It's got to go back. The more you drag it out, the better. Make, make them go through every hoop that they have to go through. Yeah, but I don't think that these House guys are just going to take, you know, what they're going to try to do is say, look, just pass the Senate version, whip it really hard. And I don't know, I'm not savvy enough a Congressional observer to know that. But that's what they desperately would like to do right now, because if they make changes, they got to go to conference, they're going to go back to the Senate. You know, it becomes. Yeah, yeah, all right.
- [06:54]
Jim Acosta
Well, I got some of the boring shit out of the way. I got to ask you, what do you think of this Elon Musk business? He's, he's, he's come back out of the woodwork. He's, he's saying, I'm going to start a new party. Do you buy any of that? He says he's going to put money behind this Tom Massie guy in Kentucky. You know, Trump's threatening to deport Elon Musk today.
- [07:15]
James Carville
I mean, you know, he's starting to deport everybody. Yeah, probably deporting me. You just knew this was going to happen from the beginning. I mean, the one thing is Musk might be the richest person in the world and Trump may be the President of the United States. They're the two of the most immature, childish people in that kind of behavior you can imagine. And you don't expect that two children, if you office for three months, that it's going to end well. And it didn't end well. I don't know if he's going to, I don't think he's able to start a third party, but he'll probably, you know, Massey, for whatever it is guy, maybe. I mean, he, he don't budge at all.
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Jim Acosta
Yeah, yeah.
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James Carville
So, I mean, he may fund more like Sergeant Tice, but I don't, I don't, I don't see that. And of course, deficits have always substantially higher under Republicans and Democrats. But tired of saying that's like talking to a wall. You know, last time the budget was balanced was 1998, when Bill Clinton was president. Yeah, but they got a lot of, they got a lot of baseball left to play in this. I promise you, this plane has not landed yet.
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Jim Acosta
But, you know, the last time they were, you know, Trump and Elon Musk were throwing these threats back and forth at one another. Elon Musk brought up Jeffrey Epstein. You know, it sounds like, you know, Trump's, you know, Trump's saying he's going to take Doge and take, you know, go after Elon Musk's subsidies and, and that sort of. This has the potential to get very personal, very nasty and very costly. And I just have to wonder, you know, does Elon Musk know something? You know, I don't know. Maybe I should.
- [09:03]
James Carville
I. You know what? Go at it, guys. I'll just be a spectator here. Just have fun. You know, let's talk about Jeffrey Epstein. Let's talk about anything we want to. We don't, you know, this is like some version of, you know, cut into my porn habit, to tell you the truth. It's like more entertaining.
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Jim Acosta
Let's get that stuff out there, you know.
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James Carville
Yeah, yeah.
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Jim Acosta
I thought that the far right Wanted to get to the bottom of this Jeffrey Epstein stuff.
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James Carville
You know, let's go. Let's. Let's have that. Let's get it out. Yes, somebody. Now, they said there's 10,000 other pages. I just read Tam Bondi or something. I don't. I can't keep up with it. But I'm big spectator sport, you know. Yeah.
- [09:44]
Jim Acosta
It's almost like they opened up a closet at Mar a Lago and said, what the hell is this, you know.
- [09:51]
James Carville
Coming out?
- [09:54]
Jim Acosta
All right, you mentioned this just a few moments ago, so let's. Let's talk about this, because I do want to hear what you have to think about this. It's part of the reason why I reached out to you. The Zoran Mamdani guy comes out of nowhere in New York City. Andrew Cuomo, you know, of course, had to leave office in disgrace, Tried to mount a political comeback. Sort of felt like Anthony Weiner, but this Bom Donnie guy just steamrolls him. Just. And a lot of young people came out and voted. And as you were saying, this affordability issue, we saw this last year, still a very potent issue.
- [10:30]
James Carville
So one of the interesting things, somebody sent me in some data. I assume that it's good. I've looked at it, and it. There's something under to be credible. The turnout by age is exactly what you see in 98% of the elections in the United States. Actually, the younger you were, the more likely you were to turn out.
- [10:51]
Jim Acosta
Right.
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James Carville
That's amazing. What the election really proves is really still the economy. Stupid. All right. He was talking about what I refer to as the cost of living. I don't like to use the word inflation. I like the term cost of living. Yeah. And you can imagine what it's like if you live in New York, particularly young person. You're not getting paid. You take the mass transit, they jack it up another 50 cents. It costs you God knows how much a year. The rents are excruciating. That everything. And what the guy was doing was talking about something that people cared about. And it felt. And I think that. And, you know, he had energy to get. He could speak my. It was really amazing to me is a number of my, you know, establishment Democrats and say, you know, I would have voted for that guy. Like, even my wife who says, y' all, that guy's got real talent. He's got real charm. I was. Steve Bannon was saying that I'm. I'm a little, you know, let's see what happens when he, you know, going forward. But he's got a touch, he's, you know, he's got it sort of figured out. I, I, when he goes on tv seems very calm but there's, this is a tough job here and I'm calling me skeptic on city owned grocery stores but you know, if you try it, it doesn't work with the else I.
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Jim Acosta
The greatest thing but you're impressed. I mean and you think that democracy is too radical or whatever. Yeah.
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James Carville
What I'm kind of more impressed with is that other people impressed and it not that this was just some people said hey, you know, this guy's got some, some talent. I also think that he ran a very, he focused on what mattered to people and they tried to say, well you said this about the Palestinians, you said this about that. Are you this about. And he said, he just kept talking about cost of living. And I, I guess most, a lot of people I know are really impressed by his demeanor and his presentation. I'm kind of impressed by his strategic single mindness.
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Jim Acosta
Yeah.
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James Carville
Which is a hard to do. It's just his ability to kind of stay in spite of everything else, to stay in that lane. And it's, you know, no one wants to cover that because it's not glamorous. What's glamorous is he's, you know, got the youth vote out, he's multi ethnic, he's multicultural, he's multi everything you can think of. And it's a sweeping new thing in politics. He talked about the cost of living. It's not a, you know, people's everyday quotean life. There's nothing new that's always been around in politics. You know, he had great discipline and.
- [13:44]
Jim Acosta
He was asked on Meet the Press about some of the things that have been hurled in his direction and you know, some of these guys in the White House going after him, Trump calling him communists and so on. And he took that and he turned it around and brought it right back, just as you were saying, Jane, right back to that affordability issue. And the reason he said, the reason why they're calling me these names is they don't want me to come back and talk about these issues that New Yorkers care about. And I thought what I saw there was, I just saw sort of young, raw political talent and that you can't, you can't substitute that.
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James Carville
I have to tell you, I said I'm really impressed with his strategic focus. And the best politicians get all to get talked about. They get diverted. I can't believe they said that about my mother you did this. And he doesn't, he doesn't get diverted. He doesn't. And that's a, that's a real skill and there's stuff to learn here. But a lot of people are impressed with his, his verbal skills also.
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Jim Acosta
And, and so what are the lessons that should be drawn from it? I know it's New York and people say, oh, it's, you know, it's New York. You can't draw that many lessons from it. Andrew Cuomo, an establishment figure who you would think would have enough of a political machine to be able to mount a comeback, fell flat. I mean, just fell flat on his face. What does this say about the Democratic Party? Because I know you were concerned that the party was in a lot of trouble, but if you've got young guys like mom Donnie coming on the scene.
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James Carville
Let's also talk about the two gubernatorial elections in states and in pretty significant states. Okay. In New Jersey. Yeah. In the Virginia election implications that are going to be huge. Okay. Because it's always a bellwether.
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Jim Acosta
Yeah.
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James Carville
It's always. And can I tell you, I think that Spanberger is going to win. I don't even think it's going to.
- [15:35]
Jim Acosta
Be that close to be close. Right.
- [15:36]
James Carville
Not very close. So my good friend Speaker Don Scott points out that there are, I think eight, maybe nine, but something like, I'm going to just go with eight Republican held House of Delegates seats that in districts that voted for Harris, those are not going to stand up to this tsunami that they're going to fall. And so now it'll come in that Spanberger wins, but it'll also headline number on changes in the state House will be shocking to people also. And I think that New Jersey too. So just remember, these are, if you look around a Democratic Party, these are the kinds of people that are winning elections and winning primaries.
- [16:22]
Jim Acosta
Yeah.
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James Carville
And I understand because it's such a great story and it's New York City, but you know, New York City is not the rest of the country in many ways.
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Jim Acosta
Yeah.
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James Carville
And the party nominees in other areas are quite remarkable.
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Jim Acosta
Yeah. And James, I got to ask you because, you know, Trump is down there in Florida today. He's opening up this alligator, Alcatraz, you know, Gulag, you know, Everglades, Gulag. And how should Democrats message on this? Is it just sort of a, an issue that hopelessly tilts in the favor of Republicans? We're seeing some polls show that this issue is not working that well for Trump. Now we're absorbing these images and seeing what the ice Raids are adding up to, it's not all criminals, it's, they're going after the grandmothers and so on. The guys at the 711 looking for day work and there's, there's, they're turning their, their thumbs down on this stuff. How should Democrats message on this in your view?
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James Carville
So this is just my human reaction. I'm sure if I sat on it for 24 hours I could come up with, be a multilingual but human. These are actually human beings. Many of them just wanted to come here, you know, to have an opportunity to go to work. In fact, most of them, you're talking about putting them in with alligators. And you know, I hope that some of the religious community and I said, you know, I know this is not who Pope Leo is and I hope people just speak out and say, wait a minute, there's nothing in your laws that said you have to degrade human beings. That's just not, you know, you can be for, for border enforcement or you can be for some controls on the board. I just, I just, it's, as an 80 year old, it strikes me as grossly inhumane and, and I'm sure that if given time I could think of a more articulate political answer. But yeah, you know, talking about alligators and Dr. Up around alligators, trust me, I don't like them.
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Jim Acosta
No, Trump, Trump was joking about earlier today, he was asked about it and he said, well, these, these, these prisoners are going to have to learn how to run in a, not in a straight line. And he was sort of mocking the idea and kind of delighting in the idea of people being eaten by alligators. There's obviously something wrong with the man.
- [18:54]
James Carville
The cruelty is the point. Yeah, that, that's the whole thing and to a significant number. But I refuse to believe a majority of people like that. And I, I just, like I said, I'm not, I don't have get a better political answer for it, but just as a moral answer is the idea, it's just hideous. Beyond hideous.
- [19:16]
Jim Acosta
And so what are your thoughts? I mean, looking ahead to the midterm cycle, what do you see? I see, you know, I see that this is, this is all going to come back and bite him in the ass.
- [19:29]
James Carville
I really just go there. We're going to have a good midterm. It's hard to imagine that we don't, I mean, how good? I don't know, but it'll be good. The one thing I would say to people that listen to this, without a presidential candidate, it's very difficult to have a message. It's very difficult to have a plan. It's very difficult to have a program. And I know it's frustrating. I know it's hard for people. We want. We got to do something now, you know, we just don't have. We don't have the majority. We have to work within the calendar that we have. The really good news is we got a lot of really good presidential potential candidates out there that can articulate this. But to ask that the Democratic Party have a message, a unified message at a time like this is just impossible. You can't deliver that. And that's the bad news. The good news is you don't need one right now. You're going to get one when you get a presidential nominee, and hopefully we'll have a really articulate and inspiring presidential nominee of which we have not had since 2012. I still think personalities and people drive ticks more than issues. And when you see big personalities and, you know, a big kind of following and able to sell things and articulate things, that that's what really draws people into politics. And I think that is somewhat what's drawing people to. And Donnie in New York, he has this kind of charm about him and, hey, you know, agree with everything he says. But I like the way he smiles.
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Jim Acosta
When he gives a comment.
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James Carville
Yes. Like, you know, looks like a nice guy. Looks like, you know, like, be friends with my children or something. You know that. But he's kind of got that. But remember, the party is New Jersey and Virginia together. A lot of people, two pretty.
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Jim Acosta
Pretty big states, probably, no question about it. And they always say Virginia is a bellwether, and a lot of people are excited. I've talked to some Democratic donor types who are very excited about Mikey Sheryl in New Jersey, they see her as part of the future, too. And so I agree with you. You don't need it. I mean, to me, the message is if the Democratic Party were searching for messages, we are not this country. We are not who this guy is. And it seems to me that is.
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James Carville
Yeah, good thing I'm on this side of the. I think people like. I think that's. I think we're unified. You know, we're unified in a lot of things, actually. It. We really unified in our contempt for the current occupant. And. But going forward, if anybody is thinking of running For President in 2028, this is my advice. Don't even mention his name. Run and say the future starts January 20, 2029. And the only Way we're looking back is if there were any criminal acts performed other than that this train is leaving the station. This country is ready to move on an entirely different direction. I'm not going to be bothered by this unpleasantness or something like that. Just be dramatic. I'm moving, we're moving ahead. We forging a future here. It's going to be different, I promise you. And yeah, the only thing we cannot not look back on potential criminality. But that's it.
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Jim Acosta
Yeah, no, I think that's right. And Obama, I think, had some of that. I remember in 2008, you know, it wasn't about Bush.
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James Carville
It was, it was about, it was, you know. Yeah, but I mean, it was kind of inspiring language. But yeah, the mood is going to be, even going to be 2008 doubled. Just, I just want to get, I just want to get out of here. I just want this over.
- [23:19]
Jim Acosta
Another thing, there was a question we just popped up from one of our, our viewers and they want to know what do you, do you worry about vote tampering in the midterms? Do you worry about Donald Trump and Stephen Miller and some of these types monkeying around with the midterms and the way we do elections in this country? I mean, with what they're trying to pull these days, they don't want accountability. They don't want Democrats getting the gavels in the House and the Senate be able to hold hearings and start impeachment proceedings and so on. I mean, you worry about that, James?
- [23:52]
James Carville
Yes. In the longer words, very. Okay. And I think what may happen, he's going to see the writing on the wall in Virginia. This is what I think is going to happen. And New Jersey also don't get. And he's going to see retirements and people are going to start coming in and saying, no, we're getting ready to lose. I got to change and I got to, I got to get some distance. And he's going to see all that coming. And I don't put anything past him. Nothing to try to call the election off, to do anything you can. He can think of things like that that, you know, we can't because we're not accustomed to thinking like that. We, we always assume there's going to be election. In your case, how do I cover the election? My case, how do I affect the election? And we don't think about it. This is a whole new thing. But the, the person that wrote in on this is, you know, people come with me all the time and say, james, I'm really scared. I said, you should be. You have every reason to be scared. Don't kid you.
- [24:56]
Jim Acosta
This is scary.
- [24:57]
James Carville
Yes. Really scary. Yeah, really scary.
- [24:59]
Jim Acosta
Yeah. And he's already tried to steal one election before, so, I mean, what's to say he's not going to try to steal more.
- [25:05]
James Carville
This is going to be. This is even be more because he's seeing this coming. He's going to see this coming and he's going to try to think of something to extricate himself from it.
- [25:18]
Jim Acosta
And I remember. I'll let you go after this. I remember I did a substack or a podcast a while back and I had said that, you know, I'm worried that Trump's going to try to run for a third term. And you texted me and you said, jim, you're so full of shit.
- [25:34]
James Carville
He's not going to run.
- [25:36]
Jim Acosta
Just to get that out of the way. You don't think he's. You don't buy any of that shit.
- [25:39]
James Carville
First of all, he said it's old, he's in terrible health. And I've read the Constitution over and over again. It, you know, now, you know, it's no. And the public wouldn't any know when 2028 gets here, people are going to be. Right now, he's the lowest approval of any president, I think, at this point in his presidency. Can you imagine that? The anguish and the desire to get behind? If I had my wish, I wish he would run. I wish the court would say he can run for a third time. And I wish he'd be the Republican nominee because we might lose.
- [26:22]
Jim Acosta
Wyoming.
- [26:23]
James Carville
Maybe.
- [26:25]
Jim Acosta
Maybe he's gonna smell worse than rotten fish.
- [26:27]
James Carville
Oh, God. Oh, my God. But if it did happen, it would be a great thing. They're gonna be so. They're so sick of him now. Can you imagine what it's gonna be? And it come 28? No. Don't you worry a little, pretty little head about that, darling. I got it all.
- [26:48]
Jim Acosta
I know you're not talking about me. I'm too old for that. But I gotta say, before I let you go, James, I love the LSU gear. I'm so happy that you gave us Jaden Daniels here in Washington.
- [26:58]
James Carville
Oh, God. Didn't that guy, didn't he make it?
- [27:00]
Jim Acosta
He's something else.
- [27:01]
James Carville
Yeah. And then we, you know, we won the College World Series and baseball is a big deal at lsu. Huge.
- [27:06]
Jim Acosta
I know it is. Yeah.
- [27:07]
James Carville
Yeah. So we're excited about everything. Well, thanks a lot, Jim. Enjoyed doing the shows.
- [27:11]
Jim Acosta
Great to see you, James. Thanks a lot. You always bring it, appreciate it.
- [27:14]
James Carville
Don't worry you pretty little head.
- [27:17]
Jim Acosta
I'll worry my ugly head.
- [27:18]
James Carville
I'll definitely do that.
- [27:19]
Jim Acosta
All right, See you, James. All right.
- [27:21]
James Carville
Okay.
- [27:22]
Jim Acosta
He's a good man. James Carville. James Carville joining us. Thanks a lot. Really appreciate it. And you know, I, I'm so glad that we, we get the comments from the viewers and the questions from the viewers because that might have been the best. More most news making question of, of this show was whether or not James is worried that Trump might try to pull some shenanigans up in the 2026 midterms. And I, you know, I hadn't thought about that very much. I know I talked about the prospect of this the other day. I do certainly worry that he might try to do that. But, you know, to hear that James is kind of thinking along those lines and our viewers are thinking along those lines, it is something we're all going to have to look out for. I do want to stay on the story of the alligator Alcatraz and I want to bring in the chair of the Florida Democratic Party, Nikki Freedom. If she's, if she's there standing by, we go and bring her in. But, you know, Trump was down there in Florida earlier today, you know, and was doing, of course, his dog and pony show showing off this thing. And Governor Ron DeSantis, you know, he, you know, he was there obviously trying to patch things up with Donald Trump and saying, see, okay, yeah, give me a cabinet position now, I just gave you a gulag in the Everglades. And you know, James is absolutely right when he was talking about this a few moments ago. And that is, you know, it's about the cruelty here. And, oh, I'm just hearing that we don't have Nikki free just yet. So let me just talk a little bit about, oh, there she is. There's Nikki free. Hey, Nikki, how are you? Good to see you.
- [29:01]
Nikki Fried
Good seeing you, too. Thanks for having me on. On a crazy, crazy day.
- [29:05]
Jim Acosta
It's a crazy day and lots to discuss. And I, I do want to talk about the budget bill and how that's going to affect Florida Floridians. We should definitely talk about that. I know you've been getting into that, but I also saw you making some comments about this alligator Alcatraz. And I mean, you know, I know Florida politics can be crazy, but my God, alligators eating migrants, it's insanity. And I'm just, what do you think about this?
- [29:27]
Nikki Fried
It's disgusting on so many different levels. I mean, first of all the inhumanity of the entire thing. They're, they're profiting it off it. The Republican Party of Florida has actually created merchants to sell to make money off of this inhumane process. You've got pictures first coming out today that have literally cages where these people are going inside these cages. You've got, you know, the fact that the governor is using old executive emergency powers to go around the people, go around environmentalists, go around the legislature and you know, now I guess he's even recommending instead of actual due process and with judges using the National Guard.
- [30:07]
Jim Acosta
I.
- [30:08]
Nikki Fried
Mean, we've gone to an all time low here in Florida and across the country.
- [30:12]
Jim Acosta
Well, and you know, the inhumanity is something that stands out to me too, obviously. I mean, the cruelty is the point, as James was just saying a few moments ago. And you're right, there is the sort of profiting off of this that is maddening and disgusting. But I have to ask a political question because it's the political nerd in me. How is it that Ron DeSantis and Donald Trump have kissed and made up and DeSantis is rolling out this Everglades gulag for him? I thought they were pissed at each other. What is, do you know what's going on? What is happening?
- [30:41]
Nikki Fried
Oh, of course. Ron DeSantis has no friends anymore. You know, like he has done so much damage to his reputation, to his friends. You know the old saying that like when you are climbing the ladder and you're stepping on people all the way up, that they were gonna watch you fall and do it with joy. And you saw.
- [30:58]
Jim Acosta
Even with those lifts.
- [30:59]
Nikki Fried
Yeah, exactly, Even with the lifts. But you saw that this legislative session, the Republican Party legislators finally came after him. He had no more friends. So I think that Alligator Alcatraz was his way of getting back into like good graces with, with Trump. So they're singing Kumbaya. Susie Wiles still hates Ron DeSantis.
- [31:17]
Jim Acosta
That's what I thought.
- [31:18]
Nikki Fried
Right, right. There's no way that like Casey DeSantis is running for governor because Susie's never gonna let that happen. So it's just, it's smoke and mirrors and. But it's. Ron DeSantis has no place to go. So.
- [31:30]
Jim Acosta
And forgive me for jumping all over the place here, I also thought the Everglades were protected. And you're not supposed to build a friggin gulag in there or a prison, you know, detention facility. I guess that doesn't, that's out the window. We don't care about that anymore. Desantis I remember at one time was somebody who, you know, tried to protect the Everglades or at least was credited as such. Maybe that was all horse crap. But I mean, this is, this is, it's disturbing on so many levels.
- [32:01]
Nikki Fried
Yeah. You know, let's talk about. The Everglades is one of the natural, like, ecosystems of our state. And we have spent billions upon billions upon billions of state and federal dollars trying to preserve it. The Miccosukee Indians that are down in the Everglades, this is their burial grounds. This is their, where their, their ancestors are. And we have done so much to not only restore the Everglade, but the natural preserves around the Everglades, has, our panthers, has natural habitats.
- [32:34]
Jim Acosta
Oh, it's beautiful.
- [32:35]
Nikki Fried
It's, it's incredible.
- [32:36]
Jim Acosta
Yeah.
- [32:37]
Nikki Fried
And, and now we're building this. That's going to decimate the environment. And yeah, Desantis all ran in 2018 about protecting the Everglades.
- [32:45]
Jim Acosta
Right, right, right.
- [32:46]
Nikki Fried
Endorsements from the Everglades foundation and Everglades Trust. And all of a sudden, you know, again, it's the kiss the ring of Donald Trump and all of the economic, all of the environmental aspects of. Go out the window.
- [32:56]
Jim Acosta
Yeah. And the thing that we have to delve into further is the heartlessness of this, the way migrants are being treated all across the country, but in particular Florida. And I haven't really had the chance to talk about this with someone who knows politics in Florida. I mean, there was, you know, I saw this up until the 2024 election. Cuban Americans, per usual, got behind Donald Trump. You even saw Venezuelans, you know, line up to support Donald Trump, you know, and a lot of what we're seeing in these ICE actions, you know, since Trump came back into office, has targeted, it hasn't spared Cubans and Venezuelans. And as a matter of fact, just the other day I was reading this story, I was going to write about it in my substack that a 75 year old Cuban man who's been in this country, I think since the 1960s, was picked up by ICE in early June, had a heart attack and died in ICE custody just this past weekend. And how is this breaking down in the Cuban community in South Florida? Or do you have any sense as to whether the politics are changing there? Will Cubans just tolerate anything Donald Trump does? I can't imagine that that's the case.
- [34:06]
Nikki Fried
No, I mean, I think it's a combination of two things in one, I do think that, you know, the Hispanic community is starting to kind of understand that when they said mass deportations. He was also talking about them. And they're seeing that not only just inhumanity. And I hear a lot about like, are Democrats changing their philosophy on immigration? And the answer is no. You know, Democrats from even look at the speeches from Bill Clinton and further back that talks about we need to secure our borders, we need comprehensive immigration reform, we need pathways to citizenship, all of these things. And as past commissioner of Agriculture for Florida, I spent four years, you know, testifying in front of Congress about comprehensive immigration reform. That here in Florida, top three economic drivers of our state all rely on, you know, migrant work. Whether it's tourism, it's construction, it's agriculture. And the Hispanic, the Miami Dade more than any other of our Hispanic communities really believed, based on, you know, some of their elected officials, our members of Congress that all said that they were going to protect them. And what happened is we aren't just going after criminals. We're going after people who are here legally. Speaker seekers. They've got papers, they're physically going into court and being detained at court. And so you're starting to see a little bit of this opening of the eyes of what actually is happening here in America. But it's also really important for us as Democrats not just to be like, they're bad, they're bad, you've been lied to. It's more of, what are we going to do to recognize the beautiful culture of our state and our communities, making sure that we're giving people an economic opportunity to have a job here, bring up, you know, family here, call Florida and United States home, that so many of us, you know, we're all generations away from being immigrants ourselves and that, that people are starting to wake up. It hasn't quite happened yet and masses. But, you know, as soon as our, you know, the tps, which is morally the, the Haitian community and the parolee status of the Cubans, they start seeing family members and.
- [36:10]
Jim Acosta
Right.
- [36:11]
Nikki Fried
And teachers and people that they've, you know, seen at the grocery store for decades, all of a sudden being rounded up and detained by. By masked men with no identification.
- [36:21]
Jim Acosta
Yeah. And I mean, I'm old enough to remember. I mean, my dad is a Cuban refugee. And, you know, he, he came in as a refugee to this country and they didn't throw him back because he would have been thrown back to a communist dictatorship. And it's still a communist dictatorship in Cuba. And so it makes you wonder, you know, what, what was the, you know, what were ICE folks doing holding on to a Cuban 75 year old migrant who perhaps didn't have his papers all together, they're gonna, they're gonna send him back to a totalitarian country. I'm old enough to remember when we, you know, we used to give people refugee status or TPS status. And that just seems to be completely out the window.
- [37:02]
Nikki Fried
Yeah, out the window. And what's, what's happening, which is just so disheartening, is that if, if you happen to be of a darker color or if you talk, you know, with a Hispanic, you know, accent, which doesn't matter, you could be Puerto Rican, an American citizen.
- [37:19]
Jim Acosta
And they're grabbing you.
- [37:20]
Nikki Fried
They're grabbing you. They're grabbing you with no explanation, with no id, no due process. And you're seeing reports coming out of American citizens being detained by ice. I mean, even the president said today there's some really bad people, that even though Americans, maybe we should deport them too. Whatever. Like it's beyond law and order. It is just so dangerous to the stability of our country and the foundation of what makes America the country that, that we all stand up and fight for. This is contrary to all of that. And you know, growing up in Miami, my back neighbors were Cubans.
- [37:58]
Jim Acosta
Yeah.
- [37:58]
Nikki Fried
Their family came into Florida in 1967, heard their horrific stories about the Castro regime. We know what's happening, the crimes and the gangs in Haiti and sending. And I have family that are second generation Haitians that are going to be sent home. This is really disturbing to so many of our communities and the foundation of our country.
- [38:20]
Jim Acosta
Yeah. There's no question about it. And I guess, Nikki, one of the questions that I have is what happens to the Democratic Party in the state of Florida? I saw that. I had David Jolly on the show recently. He's running. Do you have some hope that, that perhaps the party is sort of back on the upswing there? You know, if Ron DeSantis can get reelected by the margin they did the last time around, it made it seem as though, okay, the parties and the Democratic party's in pretty dire straits there. Do you get the sense that things are kind of bending back? The pendulum is swinging back.
- [38:52]
Nikki Fried
We actually launched our project last month called Pendulum.
- [38:56]
Jim Acosta
There you go. I just, I guess that just popped.
- [39:00]
James Carville
Out of my head.
- [39:01]
Jim Acosta
Yeah.
- [39:01]
Nikki Fried
You know, since I became chair in 23, we've had some really am, you know, flipping the city of Jacksonville mayor, flipping a county commission seats and city commission seats and state legislator seats. So we're starting to see the unwinding of this 30 year corrupt Republican machine here in our state. Because we're talking about the issues that are important to Floridians. Florida's become completely unaffordable. Whether it's housing, whether it is health care, whether it's just, you know, goods and services every single day, it has become really unaffordable. And the Republican Party just aren't focusing on those issues. This legislative session spent more time going after Ron DeSantis is, you know, stealing, stealing of $10 million from Medicaid to fund attacks against citizen led initiatives on recreational legalization of cannabis as well as protection of abortion access. And so we are seeing really people wanting to see something from the Democratic Party which we are showing them. We are showing up in communities where statewide we've launched this pendulum and which is state ride year round, never coming down from organizing, going into our communities, knocking on the doors, listening to the voters. And so we're seeing some of like the unwinding of this issues that we do. We still have a lot of work to do, but there's a lot of people here in our state that are very hungry to see the pendulum swing and we're going to be the force behind it and we're seeing that trajectory going in the right direction.
- [40:29]
Jim Acosta
Yeah. Now. And when I hear you talking about affordability, I mean we saw this with the New York mayoral race with Zon mom Donnie. I was talking about this with James Carville just a few moments ago. That was what Car Carville was zeroing in on was mom Donnie's message discipline when it comes to affordability. And not to get into a whole conversation about him, but getting back to the, the Republican budget bill, the Trump budget bill, the big beautiful, whatever I've been calling it, the big boulder of. But no, I mean it's kind of, it's kind of amazing. It's sort of mesmerizing that the Republicans went through all this trouble to get this out of the Senate. Now it's going to go back to the House. There's nothing to do with affordability in this legislation. And so they, they seem to be thinking that none of this is going to come back to haunt them. But when you make health care as unaffordable as they're about to make it, I think they're in for a rude awakening, politically speaking. And I just, I have to think you must be looking at certain districts in the state that might be swinging in your direction come 2020.
- [41:27]
Nikki Fried
We had two special elections getting part of this year, Congressional District 1 and 6. And both of these are in Ruby, Ruby, Ruby Red areas. I mean, Trump won CD1 by like 34 points and CD6 by 30. And our candidates were able to get on the ground to talk about really four fundamental issues, the cuts to Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid and the va. Both of these areas are very heavy with the veterans. We've got 1.3 million veterans that live in Florida. That's not even talking about our active military or family. And so when we start talking again about the issues that are impacting Floridians, we saw a 20 point shift. So we have said consistently that in every Republican in the state of Florida, if you're sitting in an R + 15 or less and you put Donald Trump's priorities before the people of your, of your district, we're coming for you. We've got good candidates that are running for office up and down the ticket. We're encouraging people to run. We've seen almost a six times increase of the amount of people that have filled out run for something on our website. Almost 600 people since Trump got sworn in that want to run for office here in the state of Florida. So we do see that the pendulum is shifting, that the people are frustrated with what's going on. And when earlier you're talking about how many people in the state of Florida are going to be impacted by this big bullshit bill, millions upon millions that are going to get kicked off of their Medicaid. As we know, we don't have Medicaid expansion here because of Rick Scott who then tried to put an amendment on yesterday to even eliminate the Medicaid reimbursements for the rest of the country. And so it's just the corruption and all for what? So billionaires can get tax breaks? And as somebody who oversaw the feeding program for four years, one out of four Floridians are food insecure. Those are the people that are working in your offices, those are your teachers. Those are our everyday Floridians that are never going to tell you that they didn't have dinner last night. They're going to come to work, they're going to stomach the situation and those are the people that they're attacking and hurting. And so there's going to be consequences at the ballot box only, and I say this very candidly, only if we as Democrats get our shit together, meaning that we've got good candidates, we're organizing, we're staying on message and we're talking about the populist message that got Trump reelected and the New York primary. It's all about the system is broken that the everyday Americans don't feel government is working for them and the extremes on all sides isn't the solution of the answer. But we have to, as Democrats, be listening to the message that the people of this country continue to send.
- [44:08]
Jim Acosta
Well, and when you say that Democrats have to get their. Together, I think you would have a lot of Democrats who would agree with you and say that, that they don't. They. That you don't have your. Not you personally, but the party does not have it together. And I think some of it is. It's just, it's just naturally going to work itself out over time. But I, I think the party is making a mistake if it doesn't sense the real anger and almost rage that is, that that exists out there, not just among Democrats, but among independents, even Republicans. And people are just tired of this. They're just tired. They're just tired of it.
- [44:46]
Nikki Fried
They're tired.
- [44:47]
Jim Acosta
Might not be able to put their finger on it, but they're tired.
- [44:50]
Nikki Fried
But they know they're pissed and they're. And they know that they're pissed while they're, they're working. You know, single mom working two jobs, just barely making ends meet, may have to go on SNAP benefits every once in a while because she's just short this month and pissed off when she sees politicians, you know, going and flying private planes to, to D.C. or fundraisers to, to Martha's Vineyard or what. All the games that get played and it's on both sides, you know, and I always say that, you know, but people are pissed. They said, whatever happened to somebody representing me? When are you coming home and doing constituency services? How are you showing up and not just asking for my vote, but caring about me throughout the year, not just when I can do something for you. So people are pissed. The system's broken. You know, when I first, you know, not to change, but like when I first announced, when I was running for Commissioner of agriculture in 2018, I talked, I talked about the juxtaposition of the overregulation of cannabis and the underregulation of firearms. And how is that showing that government is working for the people when two issues just make no logical sense?
- [45:52]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, no, there's no question about it. And, and you're absolutely right. I mean, you know, to me, I, I've been saying, you know, for the longest time that what we're witnessing right now in this country is, is I, I've described it as the great American pushback, and it doesn't really have a party label attached to It, I think we saw that, you know, demonstrated in the no Kings rallies that took place over the country last month. And as James was saying, we're going to see it in these upcoming elections in Virginia and New Jersey. And my goodness, they, they just made Zoran Mamdani, it looks like the mayor of New York. And so there's something, there's, there's a electrical current and whoever taps into it. And Donald Trump's very good at tapping into it. He does it usually with hatred and divide and conquer politics. But the Democrats can do it by looking out for regular folks, working folks. I think, I think that's the recipe for success.
- [46:45]
Nikki Fried
And I also think, I also think that the part of the recipe too is understanding that we are still in the FDR social contracts. And, you know, I had a really heart to heart conversation with one of our black leaders at an MLK parade in January. And he turned to me and he said, Ms. Freed, he's who I've known for years. He's like, listen, at the end of the day, look around you. My people are still living in Section 8 housing. We're still looking at the constructions, you know, the construction sites across the street. We still have liquor stores that, that have graffiti all over it. The social contracts aren't working. You know, how do we change the conversation with America of what it means to have a relationship with the people and government? Government does great things, but we also have to make sure there's checks and balances and we never forget who put us into office to begin with. And I think that too many times the conversations are just, here's another handout, here's another program. Instead of like taking a real step backwards and asking the people, what are you looking for from your government? Instead, the Democrats have been too consistently pushing it on people instead of letting the issues come to us. And I think that's what we're really trying to do here in Florida is make sure we're constantly communicating with the electorate, the people on the ground, talking about the issues that are impacting them and finding solutions, not just speech about how to make their lives better.
- [48:06]
Jim Acosta
Interesting. All right. Well, hey, Nikki Freed, it's great to talk to you. It's been a little while, but thank you so much for doing this. And keep your eyes on that alligator Alcatraz. Let us. I mean, my God, this is just some sick, twisted stuff happening down there, but I know you're on the case. Nikki, great to see you. Thanks a lot. Really appreciate the time.
- [48:22]
Nikki Fried
Have a good afternoon.
- [48:23]
Jim Acosta
All right. You too, you as well. That was just a great comprehensive discussion. And I was curious what she thought about the party's prospects in the state of Florida because it has been sort of in the doldrums there for some time now. And she basically, you know, said it the way it should be said, which is we got to get our shit together. It's sort of a larger message for the country as a whole. And I do want to get into, because I talked about a little bit with James, talked about a little bit with, with Nikki there, but I just want to, to take a few moments to touch on this alligator Alcatraz nonsense that, that Trump is using, he's using as a distraction. I mean, I'm writing about this. I'm going to put out a substack later. They know in Washington that the so called big beautiful bill, the big boulder of the big debt explosion bill that they just passed in the Senate, now it's got to go to the House. And Trump was saying today, I don't even know if it's going to get done by July 4, that that might be tough. That's his admission that it's going to take a while to get out of the house. They know that it's a stinker. They, they know that it's a barf bag full of giveaways to the rich and, and powerful in this country. And because of that, they are going back to their tried and true distraction. And that is to play the politics of cruelty with this alligator Alcatraz. But I do want to call attention to something that Trump said earlier today. And I believe, Matt, we might have the clip. It's when Trump was asked about, you know, the fact that, you know, they're basically saying, yes, you know, if a migrant tries to escape detention at this facility, that that migrant might get eaten by an alligator. If we have that clip, let's play it.
- [50:12]
D
But alligators, we're going to teach them how to run away from an alligator. Okay? If they escape prison, how to run away, don't run in a straight line. Run like this and you know what, your chances go up about 1%.
- [50:27]
Jim Acosta
Now, I saw that video and first of all, it's horrific. And as James was saying earlier on in the program, the evangelical supporters of Donald Trump have to, I think they need to search their souls and ask them, is this, would Jesus do this? What? Remember those wristbands? What would Jesus do? Would Jesus want migrants to be eaten by alligators in this country? Is that, is that, is that part of their code? As a Christian in America and their support for Donald Trump to, to have the idea that we're going to have migrants being eaten by alligators in this country. But the thing, the other thing I want to point out in this clip, and maybe we have to show it again so I can get this point across. Donald, and I know this from covering him at the White House. He does not laugh very much, folks. Have you picked up on this before? When he talks, he doesn't, he makes jokes. He makes comments that he finds to be funny, but he doesn't laugh very often. And if somebody makes a joke and, and he hears it, he doesn't, he doesn't laugh that much publicly. Just not a big laugher. You won't find a whole lot of footage of him laughing. But the idea of a human being, a migrant in this country being eaten by an alligator. Let's play that clip one more time. You actually hear him chuckle. If we can play it one more time. Oh, maybe not. Hang on. Did I break the machine? If we can play it one more time. We can. If you, if we play it one more time, you can hear it.
- [51:57]
D
Alligators. But we're going to teach them how to run away from an alligator. Okay. If they escape prison, how to run away. Don't run in a straight line. Run like this and you know what? Your chances go up about 1%.
- [52:11]
Jim Acosta
He's, he's laughing. He's laughing about the idea. He's laughing about the idea of, of human beings being eaten by alligators. And I, I only raise this point. Yes. To the substack. A viewer says it's beyond vile. It is beyond vile. This is the President of the United States making comments and delighting in the idea that somebody who tries to escape this gulag in the Everglades would be eaten by an alligator. And it just reminds me of the parable that Trump would recite out on the campaign trail. The snake. He would talk about the snake. And, and Trump earlier today was not, not only talking about the alligators, talking about the snakes in, in the Everglades that would also be there greeting these migrants who are being put into detention there. And Trump would go out on the campaign trail. And I used to hear this time and again, we would hear this. He would tell this little story about the, the woman who picked up the snake and brought the snake home. And, and the snake bitter. And then the woman would die. And she asked the snake, you know, why did you do this? And, you know, the snake says, you knew I was a snake. When you let me in. And it seems to me that that story is relevant in talking about Donald Trump. I'm not the first to make this observation. I won't be the last. But what kind of a, what kind of a person makes jokes and laughs and delights in the idea of migrants being eaten by alligators and snakes in this country? Probably a snake himself. And so I just wonder, you know, as James was saying earlier on in the program, I just wonder at what point do we start searching our souls in this country? At what point Was it not when the 4 year old with cancer who was a US citizen was sent out of the country with his mixed status mother? Was it not that maybe it'll be when one of these migrants, because he or she can't deal with the living conditions there. The, I mean, it's, how hot is it in, in the Everglades? And they're, they're going to be living in glorified trailers and cages. What happens when one of these migrants says enough is enough and tries to escape and is attacked by alligators? Will the public, will the MAGA supporters, will the evangelical Christians who support Donald Trump, would that be it? Will that be the moment when you say enough is enough? And I was thinking about this earlier, I was thinking the only reason, the only reason why I would want to keep this facility, if you want to call it that, up and running in Florida, and believe me, I would shut it down in a heartbeat. But the only reason why it might make sense to not completely shut it down and tear it down is if there is a way sometime in the future, after the year 2028, heading into 2029, when the President of the United States is held accountable for his actions, if he's, if he's broken laws as the President of the United States, and I know the Supreme Court says, oh, you know, you get, you have the getaway, get out of jail free card courtesy of, of Chief Justice John Roberts and so on. But might it not be a fitting retirement home for Donald Trump? Alligator Alcatraz, after he leaves the White House in January of 2029. If he leaves the White House in January of 2029, might be a fitting retirement home for him. Alligator Alcatraz. Something to think about. You knew I was a snake when you let me in. That was the story he used to tell out on the campaign trail. Feels very relevant today. My thanks to James Carville for joining me today. Always enjoy his insights, really appreciate his time. My thanks to the Florida Democratic Party chair, Nikki Fried for joining me as well. Interesting to hear what she has to say about how that party is trying to make a comeback in the state of Florida. That is no small task. And thanks to all of you for watching and thanks for sharing your comments. There were a couple of questions in there, a couple of comments in there that I thought were just absolutely spot on. And so I wanted to share them with all of you today. But thanks as always, everybody, for tuning in. Still reporting from Washington, I'm Jim Acosta. Have a good evening. Thanks for tuning in. Good night.
- [57:22]
James Carville
Sam Sa.