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The Jim Acosta Show
James Carville on Trump's Tanking Poll Numbers and Minnesota Lt. Gov. Peggy Flanagan on Abolishing ICE
01:01:16
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- [00:00]
Peggy Flanagan
Foreign.
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Jim Acosta
Welcome to the Jim Acosta show. And it's another day that ends in Y and Donald Trump's nose dive in the polls. Just in the last week, a slew of new major polls found Trump in the mid to upper 30% range. That is toxic. James Carville knows what it means to win elections. He believes the GOP is headed toward an historic wipeout in the fall. James, good to see you. Happy President's Day, I guess, to those who celebrate. But people don't like the current president right now, it seems.
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James Carville
Well, I know that, but I know it's going to be over come 2029. I know it's a long way, but I think the country wants to get better and I think people are going to be astonished at how quickly we do get better. But we got to like, it's a lot worse before we get better. And I understand that. Yeah, I got through it.
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Jim Acosta
The numbers are not good. I was just looking at. The Economist has some, some poll numbers out and they laid out pretty nicely in this map that we can show folks. And he, and Trump is underwater in all the battleground states that he won in 2024, but he's also underwater in places like Texas and a little bit underwater in Florida and North Carolina and even South Carolina, a little bit Iowa. These are places where he should. Alaska, now it's February, it's early, but these are bad poll numbers just about everywhere.
- [01:39]
James Carville
Well, they're awful. But even more telling, I think, are the elections we've had since November of 2024. And what's really impressive is the geographic breadth of it. You're not seeing one thing in the Northeast and another thing in a Midwest and another thing in the South. Another thing. No, you see, and I know there's special elections and I know a certain kind of voter comes out for them, but they historically are very telling. And what I'm seeing right now is Democrats running, I don't know, 12, 14 points ahead of expected performance in most places. When you plug that in, you can't help but do well. And people say, well, it's distorted model. Okay. But if you take the polling, you take the election returns, you take candidate recruitment, you take them out and you put them together. It's, it all adds up to my view, a really monster year.
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Jim Acosta
Yeah. And what states are you looking at right now? I know you're looking at Mississippi.
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Peggy Flanagan
You.
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Jim Acosta
And I've talked about it.
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James Carville
Right. I'm looking hard at South Carolina. Looking hard. I'm not even into the headline. North Carolina, Georgia, Maine, that's all. That's fine. I'm not even so much into the secondaries that we're going to win. Ohio, Iowa, even Alaska. I'm into more what you would think of as kind of third tier Senate races. And South Carolina, Florida, Mississippi, Texas, places like that certainly fit the mode. I wouldn't be surprised if we get very competitive in places like Nebraska. Even Kansas, the agrarian people have been hit so hard. It's ridiculous, right?
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Jim Acosta
Yeah. And that means that not just the House is in play, but the Senate.
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James Carville
No, that's what I'm, I'm talking to Senate, the House. I look beyond that. That's in my mind. I got a check mark against that. I've been there, done that. I'm not even looking at top tier, I mean, looking at them. But I'm going to spend my time and my energy focused on these kind of third tier Senate races that I think we can win.
- [03:48]
Jim Acosta
And why are the voters so pissed right now? I mean, to me these numbers suggest people are pissed. People are angry. They looked at what happened in Minnesota, the killings of Renee Goode and Alex Preddy. They're seeing these ice videos every day. You mentioned what's happening to the farmers. What, what are you looking at?
- [04:09]
James Carville
Well, it, first of all, I think that people don't give the American people enough credit. People generally tend to be polite and slightly modest. And boy, if there's anything that's the opposite of Donald Trump, it's any kind of manners or any way you treat people. And to say it's not modest is to put it in a different way. But I think the excesses of everything, including the stuff that we see in Minneapolis, the crazy foreign policy, I mean, like, you know, people react really negatively to the Greenland stuff, really negative to the Minneapolis stuff. I just think there's a, you know, if I had one word to say, what's the Democratic message? What should Democrats say in 2026? It would be the Italian word, basta. Enough. That's it. Okay, that's enough. We've had enough. Then fill in after that. But let's, let's, let's stop this thing right now. And you don't need a six point plan or a five point plan or anything else. Just enough. That would be my message.
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Jim Acosta
Well, I mean, I think that's what people were saying after Pam Bondi last week when she was screaming at those lawmakers. I, I heard RFK Jr say last week he had once snorted cocaine off a toilet seat.
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James Carville
That's correct.
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Jim Acosta
There was Christy Gnome Saying last week that we've got to have the right voters to elect the right leaders. I mean, it's one. And yet Trump putting out these racist posts. It's one thing after another.
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James Carville
Right. And, and, and people keep hearing that and again, it just reinforces that just enough. And I think that's exactly where people are. And they keep doing it and he keeps going down and people keep telling me, James, how does he get away with it? Actually, he's not getting away with it. Understand that you can hold him accountable in November and you're getting ready to do that. Don't act like you hopeless. They want you to think that. And who's the most and who's the.
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Jim Acosta
Most pathetic one of the bunch, do you think right now, I mean, the Pam Bonnie thing to me, I'm still talking to people who are floored by what happened in that hearing. Just floored?
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James Carville
Yeah. I watched the SNL skit and I, you know, I watched some of her testimony. I went back, it might have been the worst testimony given before a congressional committee in the history of the United States Congress. I, I think it really something in the McCarthy era that's, I, I don't know, I never seen anything like it in my life. And she, I think she thinks she did fine because she had an audience of one. And I think if you got inside her head, I mean, you have a lot of maneuver space. I could tell you that it might be that she think, well, I did just fine because Trump liked it. I mean, Joe, somebody told me, Joe Scarborough, I didn't see this. Knew her in her other life and said she was actually somewhat competent. But unlike Christine Home, which no one has ever said that about. But I don't know, I'd have to defer to Joe Scarborough if at one time she was kind of okay lawyer, but that's not anymore.
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Jim Acosta
Let me pick at the thing that you were just saying, though, about people freaking out, Democrats freaking out, thinking there's no way they're going to get rid of Trump. There's no way, you know, that we're finished. It's, it's over with. There's no coming back from this. Do you get the sense that that is changing and what do you tell people when they start going on like that? Because, I mean, I was listening to you at a conference recently and you had, you had a colorful way of putting it, but I mean, it seems to me you're kind of out there giving folks a pep talk these days.
- [08:15]
James Carville
Well, it's the nature of Democratic campaign Culture, it's always, always expect the worst. You have every reason to think it's bad and it's going to get worse. And there's no, there's just defeatism everywhere. And it's so, so accustomed to people wanting to hear bad news. I mean, oh, he's gonna fix the election, he's gonna rig. He probably gonna try. But you know what? You can do something about it and you're for one. And that's good. We should beat those drums because the more people that know about it, the hardest will be for them to do it. And I think we got to tell Democrats, hey, people say, James, don't say we're going to win because people are going to get complacent. No, if you tell people they're going to win, they're going to excite them. And if you tell people they're going to lose, you're going to depress them. All right, to somehow another me having this bullish message is evidence of the fact that, well, he's just an antiquated person, this rah, rah, we're going to win. Take it to him. Yeah, that's exactly the way they win elections. You got to take it to him. And it's so much of an uphill fight against established Washington Democratic coach. I mean like the DNC and progressive advocacy groups and the people that you run into in Washington. And in my opinion, 92.5% of them are pack of losers and they ought to be fumigated and run out of town. If you remember, they had this piece recently by Lebo and I guess it was the Atlantic, and the DNC staffers want to work from home in their pajamas. What, what you want to. And that is, that is, is indicative of a much, much larger problem, that there's a Democratic mentality that says we're just too good to win elections. This is too racist, a too misogynistic country we're forced to operate in. And the fact that we lose is nothing but proof of our own moral superiority. They literally think like that. Let me tell you, they think like that. Not just in the dnc, they think like that in the women's health movement in Washington, the environmental movement in Washington, all of them, they all have this, I am just a better person than you are, James. You can go down and growl at the level of them and call them names and tell us we're going to win and rah, rah, rah, but I know the darkened nature of the human condition and we're just too Good to deal with it. That's a bullshit. They believe. And as long as you have that, you know, you see it, Jim. You see it in the people, like the bulwark people and have a trouble they get in our culture. They go, what is wrong with these people? They don't care about winning the election. Welcome to my life. Welcome to my entire life. And so you have Sarah Longwell, who's like, what is this? I never got. I did the thing with Mike Murphy that just flummoxed. When they look at Democratic campaign culture, I've never seen things like it. And I try to explain to them it's always been that way. It's always been, we're just too good for other people.
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Jim Acosta
And is part of it that old expression, you know, republicans shoot their wounded, Democrats shoot themselves? Is it a little bit of that? Is it. Or is it just they need a firecracker lit under their asses?
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James Carville
It's a little bit like, you're not the boss of me. That's a big Democrat point. I have my own ideas, and I will voice them no matter what. Okay? I have a single idea. Win the election. I actually think winning itself is a philosophy, all right? Because what is the purpose of a political campaign is singular. It's. It is to win the election. It is not to correct historical injustices. It's not to put yourself in the aspirational position that maybe 10 years down the road we can see these kinds of changes happen. No. It's right now, in November. In winning that election and acquiring political power is the most important thing that a political party can do. Period. End of it. And by the way. And most of the things that you would want is infinitely better, if you win, then you lose anyway. Yeah. Winning is. Is a. It's like Locke's second treatise is that deep of a philosophy. It is on very. Albert Camus. It's. I don't know who the fuck it is, but it's somebody like Jean Paul thought that that's the philosophical level that I'm operating with. My winning philosophy.
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Jim Acosta
Winning is not everything. It's the only thing is that that's correct. That's it.
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James Carville
And in that philosophy contains. You know, you go back to the ancients to realize how deep and elegant that philosophy is.
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Jim Acosta
Well, and I. The thing that you were just saying about decency and kindness, I think that I have always observed that about the American people. I've been to all 50 states. I've been on the campaign trail. You just run into the nicest damn people all over this country. And I agree with you. I don't know what it is, why they, they chased after this, this guy in the White House right now who is the meanest, nastiest person I've. That we'll ever come across in our lifetimes. But somebody who's been putting out a message that to contrast, and we've seen several Democrats do this is John Ossoff, the senator from Georgia. He was. While Trump was doing his thing and the Republicans were tweeting nasty things over the weekend, John Ossoff was preaching from the pulpit and talking about how the country is led by somebody who's basically soulless. Let's listen to a bit of that. I want to ask you about John Ossoff, but Pastor Proverbs says whoever digs a pit, Whoever digs a pit will fall into it. And scripture is full of kings brought low by their own arrogance. Ahab surrounded himself with 400 yes men, false prophets paid to affirm the king's delusions. And those delusions led him to his defeat. And among today's false prophets are the election deniers who indulge this president's obsession with overturning the 2020 election. Now hear me when I say this. They tell a lie so absurd and therefore so debasing to tell that the act of telling it proves the tellers total and humiliating submission. I mean, that's some powerful stuff, I think. What do you think, James, about? I mean, we see James Talarico do this too, preaching from the pulpit. Yeah.
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James Carville
So the one thing about ourself you got to remember, I know him very well. He is the hardest working guy in politics. He is the embodiment of the winning strategy because he and I, if you look at that, he was very articulate, by the way, you know, very well dressed. I mean, he showed respect to the people that were in the audience. All right, that was a sign of respect. I'm dressed nicely. I'm going to dress you. I'm going to dress you thoughtfully in a kind of polite, humble way. That's why he's going to win. And it's not going to be close, not even on my priority list. Okay, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. You got it from him. Dude, I'm in South Carolina now. You got this puppy. Don't worry. You know, but I'm not worried because he's, he's going to work 22 hours a day. He makes, you know, every fundraising call, every supporter call, every. Everything you can make. He's, he's, a workaholic and he's, he's got quite a future ahead of him.
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Jim Acosta
Yeah. And then in contrast to that, the RNC was putting out this tweet about Governor Pritzker of Illinois. We can show this. My love for you is bigger than JB Pritzker shows him eating. I mean, it's just kind of disgusting stuff that the. The GOP is all about these days. They just. It's all about hitting below the belt and ad hominem attacks and so on. What do you think about this kind of stuff?
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James Carville
I have an idea. I will make a proposal to my friends at rng. Let's do something for charity. Let's together, come together and do something as Americans, and we can help the least fortunate among us. So what we're going to do is we're going to have a way off with Governor J.B. pritzker of Illinois and Donald John Trump, the President of the United States. Now the whole country, because we're addicted to gambling, we can bet the over under. What do you think JB's over under is going to be? What's Trump's over under going to be? Who is going to win this way on who is who? Mirror, mirror, on the wall, who's the fattest of them all? And now Chevy on the chain scale, Governor J.B. i understand he's only down to, you know, his swimming suit. And then Donald John Trump is going to step on and who's going to win Right now, let me go. Let's go to Las Vegas. Oh, wait, it's Pritzker minus six pounds. Okay, that's the established betting line now. Get your bets in now, folks. All profits are going to go to families of fallen soldiers. Anything you name. Sure. We're gonna have. It's gonna be. It's gonna be an event like America's never seen. It's gonna way off. Is going to be the Super Bowl. The bookmakers are gonna go nuts. The algorithms are gonna nuts everything tonight. Who. Mirror, mirror, on the wall, who is the fattest of them all?
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Jim Acosta
And who do you suspect will come out on top here?
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James Carville
I will go.
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Peggy Flanagan
Who.
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James Carville
Whatever Governor Pritzker bets on because he. He won a million four in Las Vegas and he's worth three billion dol. Fire at him. I'll let him set the line.
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Jim Acosta
It doesn't sound like you're too worried about this stuff.
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James Carville
You can't. The only way you can deal with these people is through humor. Because if you try to take it seriously, you will never be able to Sleep. You will never be able to function, Jim. I get people say, man, you set out this stuff in your name, you know, raising money and everything. Got to be careful. You go dilute your brand. I'm 81 years old. I don't give a. About my brand. I'll send out anything, try to beat this guy. Brandon got a lot longer left. And I will, I will literally sign anything for any Democrat that I think I could help. You know, I'm focusing on my big four Senate races here, and I'm just going to keep going down to these people's level and just kick them as hard as I can, as often as I can, and I'm not going to give a shit about myself at this age.
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Jim Acosta
And I mean, you, you. What's that?
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James Carville
Let's have this way off. I'm big way off.
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Jim Acosta
Something tells me Donald Trump may not be up for that. I. Something. Some. He may not take you up on that, James.
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James Carville
He may not. But, you know, we, we do. Anytime that they say something, we said, look, we've offered this in all sincerity, you know, it might be good for the country. I don't know. I mean, we just gotta. You have to keep mocking them. It just, it has to. Just. Because if you try to deal with it on a policy level, you know, and he's documented last 34, 728. Okay, so now we're at 29. But you got to make fun of it.
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Jim Acosta
Yeah. And so that's my book. And how toxic is Epstein, do you think, to Donald Trump?
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James Carville
All right, so you're a newsman, you're a storyteller, right? So let's start with a story where we have these people that of unbelievable wealth that have, I don't know, six houses of mansions around the world. And let's say we don't know exactly how he made his money. Let's say this man made numerous trips to Russia, the most underappreciated part of the whole operation. And then you had all these famous people, and then you had an island, and then you had X million documents, and then you had a mysterious death. The story will never, ever go away. It's not, it's not going away by November. It's not going away by the 28th election. 60, 60 years from now, people are going to be unearthing stuff from Epstein. And the most under. In my humble opinion. I'm not a journalist and I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but I think the Russia connection has been too cavalierly dismissed. I, I would not be surprised if it was, it was part of a Russian intelligence operation.
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Jim Acosta
The whole thing, the Russians used to get compromising. Yeah.
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James Carville
It's completely destabilized the United States.
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Jim Acosta
Yeah.
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James Carville
That's probably one of the most successful intelligence operations ever. Am I paranoid? Am I. No, No. I think it's. It's. It's something serious that, you know, it needs to be really looked into.
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Jim Acosta
And it was smart, was it not, for the Clintons to come forward and say, we'll come forward and testify. We'll do it on camera. We'll. We'll come down there and talk to you. Comer. And you have comer not offering the same situation to Donald Trump. He doesn't. He's not calling on Donald Trump to come down. He's not calling Steve Bannon to come down. There's a New York Times story today. Steve Bannon is all over the Epstein files.
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James Carville
Well, my favorite. Sometimes some things stand out. Even in this. There's some things that just stand out. Bannon and Epstein conspiring to overthrow the hope is gonna be one of the greatest things in American history. Okay. And what's interesting, if you look at the exchange, Bannon was so enamored with his own power, he actually thought he could do it.
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Jim Acosta
Yeah.
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James Carville
Okay.
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Jim Acosta
Apparently, Bannon was also talking about the 25th Amendment. We're showing this Texas.
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James Carville
He. He had. He and Epstein talked about how stupid Trump was, back and forth. Okay. How stupid they were, as I point out, Rex Tillerson, okay. Serious guy. He's a CEO of Exxon. I don't know, third largest corporation world. The Secretary of State called him a fucking moron. We have evidence that maybe the truth about Trump is he's really stupid. And we'd like. We think he has all this cleverness and he's trying to change the story and he's flooding the zone. And that Epstein. Then he moves to Greenland, and we're looking at Greenland. He's in Venice. Maybe he's. Maybe at the end of the day, he's just stupid. I think that's his good explanation. He just dumb. Dumb people do dumb things, and he keeps doing dumb things, and he's stupid. I think that's. That the stupidity thing explains more than any other.
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Jim Acosta
Sometimes the simplest explanation.
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James Carville
Sometimes as soon as. Yes. The Oxman's race or whatever they call it. Yeah. The simple thing. He's just stupid and got a lot of really stupid people around him.
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Jim Acosta
Yeah. But you don't worry. There's a Time magazine cover with Trump on it. There's a quote from Him. I was the hunted. Now I'm the hunter. They, the White House tweeted this out. Going back to what we were saying at the beginning. You and I have talked about this, about Trump trying to steal the midterms, trying to pull a fast one and, and do something that just throws the midterms into chaos. I know you've said that the people are going to toss this all aside in November. I mean, it's going to get bloody, it's going to get bad. But in the back of your mind, do you worry that he's going to try to steal it, that this is going to get so tangled up by. With the lawyers and everything? What do you think?
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James Carville
Worrying if the sun's going to come up tomorrow, it is. He's going to try to steal it. Okay, so what do we do going forward? First thing that you can play a role with this. Who is rep. Who's, what's our legal strategy? How many do we have somebody in charge? Do we have. Do we have lawyers that could. Because, remember, contrary, what people think is election is 50 different elections. So who's the team? Who's the quarterback? Who's calling the shots? Does the Senate have one lawyer and the House people have another or something like that? This is a question that I think is important, and I think that journalism has got to, like, see, where are we? And you know, because when it starts happening, you know, when the fecal matter engages the rotor blade, you ain't got a lot of time. Break the glass. This is the plan.
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Jim Acosta
Yeah.
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James Carville
What are we doing? Scott Galloway, who I've come to be a big admirer of, I think it was on Tim Miller's show.
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Jim Acosta
Yeah.
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James Carville
And, you know, he talked about things you can do, you can, you can boycott, you can do certain things. You know, if, you know they're going to have shenanigans in Detroit. You activate all the people in, in suburban Detroit, all the people around there, and you say, if they do, we're going to Woodward Avenue and we're all going to lay down. We're not, we're going to, we're going to stop. Ruben Gallagher says we should consider a general strike. That sounds like a kind of French kind of thing. But you know what? It can be very effective. We're just going to stay home. It's not going.
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Jim Acosta
We're not.
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James Carville
Fine. We're not buying anything. We're not doing nothing. We're just staying home. We're going to show what we are. See, it's full on. We have to have the right legal team, the right process to make decisions quickly in place. And then we have to, they have to know that they're not going to get away with it. And they have to know that the, they have to be told that the reaction to it is going to be massive because they're not going to be able to. It's not going to be Pearl harbor, they're not going to sneak up on us.
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Jim Acosta
Right. And, and James, you talk to, you talk to a lot of Democrats. Do you get the sense that the party has that war room in place, that plan in place, those lawyers in place?
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James Carville
I don't know. Yeah, I think there's a, A, I think this, everybody has a different kind of idea.
- [27:24]
Jim Acosta
Yeah.
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James Carville
And I think as Democrats around the country, we need to demand of, of our party, the Institutional Democratic Party, because it can't be done kind of anywhere else. And I'm talking about the dnc, the Senate Democrats, everything, the Democratic Governors Association. We got to be on the same page. The threat is really, it's not real. It's certainly coming. And what do we have? What's our plan for when they start the stuff in Texas? Okay, who's on the ground in Texas? Who's ready to deploy? Who's. Who's down at the courthouse ready with the motion? You got to have that. And we don't have it just yet.
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Jim Acosta
Yeah, that sounds like a problem.
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James Carville
It is. And when they have a problem, people like you that listen to show need to get on top the problem and not let the problem festive. And there's a way to deal with it, but we're not there yet.
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Jim Acosta
And is it your sense that the DNC has the right leadership in place? Not just.
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James Carville
I don't, I don't, I bet Ken Martin a couple times. I don't have anything against him. He's dealing with a culture that has gone completely amok. The DNC is, the culture of the DNC is not about winning. It's about speech giving, but it's who we got. I think, I think he knows that he can't, but he's gotta, like, have his ideas about what they can do, because the dinner DNC does have some legal things it can do that outside groups may not be able to do. But he's got to work around the culture of his organization because I think the culture of the DNC is hopeless.
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Jim Acosta
Yeah, well, I mean, and one of our subscribers is bringing up the point now. Trump is not getting the SAVE act thing through the Congress and the Senate is not going to take it up. Because to your point that the, the Senate Republicans are scared as hell that they're going to lose the midterms and they don't want to do anything at this point to give more ammunition over to the Democrats. Does, does the save act failing push Trump to take more desperate measures? I think that's a good. I think your answer earlier is the answer, which is we should just expect it to happen. He's just going to, they're going to try.
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James Carville
You know, it's going to happen. I mean, you're almost to a certitude. He's just nothing. He's telling you it's going to happen. Probably. You see, some of these Republicans are not turning over voter files. He's. There's. And people say al the Republican. You notice if you look at his polling numbers, which I do, he's Republican. His Democratic disapproval is like 93 or 94. His Republican approval is maybe 84. That's a lot. That's a lot. As long as his Republican approval stays above 75, other Republicans can't break from. So what? You want him to be in a position where, all right, we got you in a headlock. You can't. If you break for him, you lose. If you stay with him, you lose. Great choice. You're going to lose, dude, because you're weak. And that message is for you, Lindsey Graham. That is for you, Lindsey Graham. That is for you, Lindsey Graham. You are a loser.
- [30:42]
Jim Acosta
You want to take out Lindsey Graham?
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James Carville
I do. I do. And I don't know why. You get, you know, you get certain things in life, and I, I think Lindsey has come to, in some place to exemplify everything he actually knows better.
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Jim Acosta
Yes.
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James Carville
Okay. I don't think Tommy Tuberville knows any better. I think he's that, that stupid. I think Lindsey Graham is that pliable. I actually think somewhere in the back of his mind, he had at one time in his life some sense of right or wrong. And I think he's, he just thinks that he doesn't have a life if he's not in the Senate. And I'm gonna do everything I can to give him a life outside of the Senate. I promise you. I'm. I'm gonna help Dr. Andrews as vigorous and as hard as I possibly can. I'm gonna ask people to donate, to take her around, but do everything you could do because it's just obsession and you gotta be upset.
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Jim Acosta
Susan Collins. You're not.
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James Carville
I mean, I see her. She's concerned. Okay. I, I see. Just Difficult. But Lindsay said for some reason he's in another league. He's really in another league. I mean, so I'm gonna have some fun doing this anyway because it just gives me something to wake up for in the morning.
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Jim Acosta
We'll check back at you. At you, James, on Project Lindsay. How about that? We'll check.
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James Carville
That'll be good. And, and do me a favor. Look into this legal stuff.
- [32:12]
Jim Acosta
Yeah.
- [32:13]
James Carville
And let's get an answer.
- [32:14]
Jim Acosta
We talked about this.
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James Carville
Who's. Who's running this railroad.
- [32:18]
Jim Acosta
Yeah. From New Zealand. Right now. I should tell the viewers, I don't want to give away your precise location, but.
- [32:24]
James Carville
Well, okay. I'm Viaduct harbor in Auckland, Virginia. And the reports that this is a nautical nation are not greatly exaggerated. There's a lot of boats in this country, I can tell you that.
- [32:37]
Jim Acosta
Enjoy the boats and all that good stuff down there. James, great to see you as always, man. Really appreciate it.
- [32:43]
James Carville
Thank you. Jim, you're back.
- [32:44]
Jim Acosta
All right, take care. All right, we'll get on it. Thanks, James. And you know, one of the Senate races that the Democrats are going to have to take a hard look at and put some resources into is the one in Minnesota. Tina Smith is stepping aside. She's not running for reelection. But my next guest is running for that Senate seat to the lieutenant governor of Minnesota, Peggy Flanagan. And there's lieutenant governor now. Great to see you. Thank you so much for being on the show.
- [33:12]
Peggy Flanagan
Thanks so much, Jim. Happy to be here.
- [33:14]
Jim Acosta
No, no, no worries. Happy to have you on anytime. I was just talking with the legendary James Carville and he sounds like he's, he really wants to go after Lindsey Graham. So he, if you get the nomination, you become the Senate candidate in Minnesota. Maybe James will give you some advice to it. It sounds like he's really worried about Lindsey Graham at this point. But we, I, I do want to get into Minnesota because, my God. And I've been covering this just like a lot of folks have been covering this non stop. It has just been kind of unimaginable. And I was thinking about this over the weekend that, you know, if com people have their problems with Kamala Harris and so on, you know, I, I thought she was a better candidate than a lot of people gave her credit for. She didn't have a lot of time to win that race. But if Kamala Harris were alive right now or in, excuse me, she were the president right now, Alex Preddy and Renee Goode would be alive right now and just the world would be a different place. Minnesota would not have been put through the ringer like this. And I just wonder what your thoughts are. How, how are you doing? How's the state doing? What are your thoughts on just how things are moving forward after what has been just a nightmarish start of the year for your state?
- [34:26]
Peggy Flanagan
Well, thank you so much and thank you for covering this. I think people don't completely understand what it has really been like here on the ground for folks. And as you're talking about the what ifs, if Kamala Harris was our president right now, boy, it's hard to even dream about that because of what we have faced here. But I think the takeaway is that elections have consequences and that it was not in the fine print that mass deportations were part of Donald Trump's agenda. He was very clear about it. Bright red signs, all caps that, you know, rallies and conventions. And so we are dealing with the consequences of that. You know, the chaos, the fear, just how people have changed the way that they live their daily lives. I know families who haven't left their homes in over two months and just children. My daughter's school district, they close school for two days so they could transition hundreds of students to distance learning to protect them from federal agents. I mean, it's wild, right? We think about distance learning for Covid, and that was a virus. And this is a man made problem, a one man made problem. And so the consequences of this we will feel for years to come. And as I said, as a mom, I'm the mom of a seventh grader. Our kids, some of our children in Minnesota will have an ACE score, an adverse childhood experience score, simply because the federal government and federal agents were in our streets. So ICE needs to get out of Minnesota. They are still active. They are still here. Their tactics might have changed slightly where now they are posing as people delivering food aid to homes and scooping people up. I'm sure you've seen the recent video of ICE agent feigning that she was having car trouble. Someone came out to assist her and they scooped him up. I mean, just like horrific, horrific behavior. And so there is an opportunity that is needed and necessary to. I think, I don't have a better word for it, Jim, than like, avenge the people of Minnesota. The federal government laid this at our doorstep. And they have to restore and repair and heal what it is that they have broken.
- [37:31]
Jim Acosta
Absolutely. And right now DHS is shut down because of the funding lapse that occurred over the weekend. And I'm just wondering what your thoughts are. You're running for the Senate I guess you would have voted to turn off this funding, too. Is that. Is that your feeling? What are your thoughts on that whole battle over the DHS funding? Because there are folks who say, well, ICE is funded anyway, and it's the Coast Guard and those places that aren't being funded as a part of this. And the administration won't even go along with face masks. They won't even go along with identifying who these agents are. It's just unreal. But your thoughts.
- [38:08]
Peggy Flanagan
I mean, my thoughts are that I don't understand how many more people need to die at the hands of ICE and cbp. That is where. I simply cannot understand where people think that it's appropriate to give one more dime to these agencies. As you know, we have lost the lives of two Minnesotans, literally, while people were filming these interactions. What the Democrats are asking for, these reforms feel like the bare minimum of what should be required. Right. You know, for us in Minnesota, our State Patrol, they wear body cams and they don't cover their faces. That's best practice. Right. And it's how you make sure that we can have trust with. With individuals. This is just so far beyond the pale. So I would. I would just. You know, that's. I guess my question is how many more people have to die at the hands of this agency in order for folks to say enough? And so I just. And I also want to be clear, right? The Republicans control the House, the Senate, and the White House. Right. So. So there is this opportunity for them as well, to start talking about these reforms. They're not even entertaining. These bare minimums that Hakeem Jeffries and Chuck Schumer have moved forward. It is appalling to me, and I know that what has happened here in Minnesota, that this could happen anywhere in America. And as we know now, they proposed, what, $38 billion for these warehouses, Right. To literally warehouse human beings across the country. You know, I think about. You know, Jim, you've been a journalist for a long time. Can you believe that we're even having this conversation?
- [40:09]
Jim Acosta
I can't. No. I think it's crazy. Yeah. And what about ICE itself? Should it just be abolished? Is it. Should we just go back to the days of the ins? I mean, you mentioned. I've been covering this for a while. I. There was an INS before there was ice, and they would catch people in the country who aren't supposed to be here or violent criminals, whatever. They would get deported. We deported people before ice. Does ICE need to continue to exist?
- [40:33]
Peggy Flanagan
I mean, I think we have to rip it apart and start over, right? So when we think about, you know, they talk about, quote unquote, the worst of the worst, right? Five year old Liam in a bunny hat, two year old Chloe, ten year old Elizabeth. This is outrageous. Right? And you know, you know, when we think about immigration, there's opportunities here for comprehensive immigration reform, for pathways to citizenship, for dreamers who've been here. Right. For decades, you know, making sure that we've got a fair process for visas. But you know, I just, what we are seeing now is just chaos and cruelty and people are literally losing their lives because of this completely unchecked, unconstitutional behavior coming out of, out of this agency.
- [41:25]
Jim Acosta
Right? And Tom Homan, who was, you know, sent in there to replace Greg Bevino, who left your state in disgrace, he's been saying, well, they're winding down operations, but a small reaction force might stay behind. I believe that's the terminology he's used. And I'm just wondering, do you trust the, the agency, do you trust the Department of Homeland Security to say, well, we're drawing down. I mean, I guess if, can you somehow scan a barcode on the way out as they're, as they're leaving the state? I just wonder, you know, because, you know, not to, not, not to belabor this, but I, I also wonder what you think, you know, other states should be on the lookout for. I mean, just over the weekend in New Jersey, we can show this video to our audience. There were children, I guess, running from a bus stop. You may have seen this viral video and there are people screaming ice. Because ICE was spotted near a kids running through a parking lot running from ice. This is what, this is what life is like in so many places across the country, not just Minnesota. This was happening in New Jersey, I guess. What would you tell folks in other states if ICE is going to be coming to a neighborhood near them?
- [42:34]
Peggy Flanagan
I mean, just last week, you know, in a parent thread that I'm on ICE was at bus stops and our community, right? Like what? So here's what I would say. I would say protect your neighbors. You know, become a constitutional observer. Get that training to know your rights. And you know, if you are a citizen and you know, you can go out there and protect your neighbors, you should, I think there is a role for everyone in this movement and in this moment right now, one of the beautiful things about Minnesota is that we have an incredible organizing infrastructure that we have invested in over the last few decades with faith labor, nonprofit organizations, and now with the addition of Moms and dads who are standing outside of schools and daycares and getting mutual aid and food to their neighbors, as well as, you know, just making sure, you know, that I heard a story today about a local nonprofit where they are picking up the clothing of the kiddos who are at their daycare to wash it for the. These families who can't leave their homes. So stand up for each other. Make your voice loud. And, you know, as an elected official, sometimes it makes me feel a little awkward where I say our, you know, our elected leaders will not be the ones to save us. But I think, you know, we have seen over generations, right, that it is the people who are raising their voices, who are pushing back in nonviolent resistance as peaceful protesters who can make the difference. And I think in order to honor the legacy and the life of Renee Goode and Alex Preddy, that this is our opportunity is to continue that work. And I think sometimes people feel like it's too much and it's overwhelming, and we have to do all the things. And what I do isn't enough. But here's the deal. It's not a sprint. It's not a marathon. It is a relay, as this work, Right for justice has always been that we pass it on to the next individual, that we pass it on to the next generation, and you do as much good as you can for as long as you can, and then hand it off to the. To the next person. So we need some fresh legs for this movement. So if you feel so moved to stand up for your neighbor, do it. You are on the right side of history, and future generations of Americans will thank you for it.
- [45:18]
Jim Acosta
And Lieutenant Governor, I mean, one thing that we should, I guess, dive into, as you mentioned, you know, you think people should go out there and continue to exercise their constitutional right to observe and be good citizens and so on. It seems to me that ICE does not want that. And it's been hardwired into the minds of these agents that they can be abusive towards people when they're just doing that. And I. I mean, I. I learned as a journalist over the years, you can stand on a street corner as long as you're not blocking traffic or committing a crime, you can videotape and you can do these. You can observe. This is what you can do in a free country. And I have some video we can show some. This is another viral video that came out over the weekend. I know you look at these all the time, but this is. These ICE agents go bananas on this guy. Interfering with her operations. You could be arrested under 18 USC 111. We will arrest you. You have been interfering with our operations.
- [46:08]
James Carville
We're following us yesterday, what you're doing, dude, numerous times. Not interfering.
- [46:14]
Jim Acosta
Yes, you are. No, I am not. If you continue, you will be in handcuffs. You will be arrested. You will be prosecuted. Code 11 11.
- [46:22]
James Carville
Get that through your head, dude.
- [46:23]
Jim Acosta
A lot of numbers. You just. Yeah, good job. I'm not breaking the law, and you know it.
- [46:27]
James Carville
This war.
- [46:28]
Jim Acosta
Not breaking the law, and you know it never. And this guy really gets in his face and just starts going nuts here. But, I mean, Lieutenant Governor. I mean, it's. I. I don't know. What. What did they tell these ICE guys before sending them out in the field that, you know, the Constitution is just optional. I mean, I don't. I don't get it. And were they not raised right? They don't treat people with respect. I don't. It's. What happened. What's wrong with these guys?
- [46:56]
Peggy Flanagan
I mean, I ask myself that every day. And, you know, I have to say, I don't. I don't understand it. And in some ways, I am glad that I don't understand it, that my. I cannot wrap my head around, you know, just the. Treating people with such disrespect and. And putting them at risk like that. For me, is. Every interaction has the opportunity to go badly because they're not conducting themselves in any way that shows they have an understanding of the law or appropriate behavior. And for. Thank goodness for constitutional observers who had multiple angles of these interactions, because our job. And I think the thing that's been happening in Minnesota, where we sort of broke this thing wide open, is that we've been able to tell the truth when, you know, the government tries to call Renee Goode a domestic terrorist. Right. Or somehow, like, tries to paint a nurse who works for the VA in some sort of critical light, that we literally have video footage to say, this is not true. They are not telling the truth. And, you know, but also when we hear the vice president say, right, they have absolute immunity for their behavior. I mean, it's just not true. They're just lying, and we need to just name that and. And call that out. Or somehow now that you can knock someone's door down with an administrative warrant and not a judicial warrant that's been signed by a judge, but who says. And so this is. It can be exhausting, but we cannot get tired. Right? Like, we have to remember that, you know, this is the.
- [48:47]
James Carville
The.
- [48:48]
Peggy Flanagan
The work that is Right. And just. And I think journalism is a core part and has to continue to be a core part of our democracy. And so if that is, you know, citizen journalists, if it's our, like, you know, newspapers and cable, and we have to continue to. To demand, you know, more and that the press is able to do their job.
- [49:13]
Jim Acosta
Yeah. And you're running for the Senate, and are you concerned about this talk of ICE agents showing up at polling places? I had a subscriber just ask about that. It is concerning when you hear this talk. I mean, it's. I think it came from Steve Bannon, who apparently has other problems to worry about these days. But, yeah, I mean, what do you think about that?
- [49:35]
Peggy Flanagan
I mean, I think that we have to be ready to make sure, Right. That if that's the case, that we are challenging that in the courts, I think about our attorney general, who has sued the Trump administration 54 times, and we'll continue to do that. There's also a real need for people to know their rights, know their rights when they are going, you know, to the ballot box, that we have no excuse, absentee, you know, voting here in Minnesota, you know, several weeks of people being able to early vote as well. So that also will be, you know, our job and the job of organizers on the ground. And I think of, you know, Democratic secretaries of state all across, you know, the country to make sure that the people know their rights. But again, they are telling on themselves. One talking about, you know, threatening to have ICE agents at polling places and, hey, ICE will get out of Minnesota if you hand over your voter rolls.
- [50:35]
Jim Acosta
Right. That was another one.
- [50:37]
Peggy Flanagan
Yeah. Like, what is this actually about? You know, if I think Donald Trump, with a 27% approval rating, is pretty clear that what's happening in the streets right now, people don't like it and, you know, that there will be consequences at the ballot box. And, you know, they're. They're worried about in this. Intimidation is, you know, one of the only tools that they have in their toolbox. So we have to use our voices. We have to make sure, again, the number one way to protect our constitutional rights is to use our constitutional rights to get out there and to raise our voices and to cast those ballots and make sure that we are holding Donald Trump and Oliphant and his enablers accountable. And I just wanna be clear that this is clearly, this is something that we're thinking about in Minnesota and in this race. This is one of the most significant differences between myself and my opponent. I have always stood in the breach with our immigrant neighbors. I am a practicing Catholic, and so for me, welcoming a stranger is part of my identity. And I know that the very first piece of legislation to come out of the second Trump administration was for the Lake and Riley act, which stripped immigrants of due process and allows for indefinite detention of adults and children. I think this was a, it was a test, right, for how much, you know, chaos and fear they could stoke, you know, in, in our communities. And then she then went on to vote to praise ICE in June when they are in the streets of Los Angeles. So I think this is another opportunity, not just in this race in Minnesota, but all across the state of, you know, all across the country for folks to say we need leaders who are going to vote for what is right all of the time, not just for what is politically expedient. And, you know, it's certainly something we're hearing about on the ground here.
- [52:36]
Jim Acosta
All right, well, Peggy Flanagan, the Lieutenant Governor of Minnesota, who's also running for the Senate, thank you very much for your time. Really appreciate it. Good luck with the campaign. Hope we can do it again soon.
- [52:46]
Peggy Flanagan
Thanks so much, Jim. I appreciate you.
- [52:48]
Jim Acosta
All right, good luck. Thank you so much. Thanks for your time. And before we go, I have to, you know, there was one little piece of video that slipped past me last Friday, and it was Donald Trump. He was accepting a prize, you know, they, he won't, he can't win the Nobel Peace Prize. So people now show up at the White House and they bring him golden offerings. And there was FIFA giving him the FIFA Peace Prize. And Tim Cook gave him a golden offering of some sort, the guy from Apple. And apparently Trump was crowned the undisputed champion of beautiful clean coal by the coal industry, the Washington Coal Club. Keep in mind that, you know, we, we burn less and less coal in this country because it is dirty. And it is basically a massive contributor to climate change in this country. According to the Union of Concerned Scientists, climate change is coal's most serious long term global impact. Chemically, coal is mostly carbon, which when burned, reacts with oxygen in the air to produce carbon dioxide, a heat trapping gas. When released in the atmosphere, carbon dioxide works like a blanket, warming the earth above normal limits. Now, I'm in my 50s. I have known that for a very long time. And yet Donald Trump, because he does not give a shit about climate change, he does not give a shit about global warming. He does not give a shit if his children and grandchildren inherited earth that is overheating and is out of control from a weather and climate standpoint, he accepted this word happily. But the problem for Donald Trump when he accepted this award is that he could barely get the words out. And this is something that I wanted to bring up. Let's, let's play the video. We have me and I'm proud to.
- [54:33]
James Carville
Officially name the undisputed. Just when did this come out, Mr. Speaker? The undisputed champion of beautiful clean coal. We have to proceed always. I don't use the word call. You know, it needs a pr.
- [54:48]
Jim Acosta
I don't know what he says. Don't use the word coal. He's all over the place there. He's slurring his words.
- [54:53]
James Carville
Name the undisciplined.
- [54:55]
Jim Acosta
Many times when the.
- [54:56]
James Carville
Did this come.
- [54:56]
Jim Acosta
Needs a cookie. But, you know, there's Donald Trump accepting the clean coal award and can barely get the words out. I, you know, you forgive me for, for beating a dead horse or an old horse, but remember when Joe Biden, if Joe Biden, when he was president, would get a name wrong or say, say a word wrong or something, people would go nuts. They would go crazy. They would do it on Fox. They, even the people said, people wrote a book about this. You know, if Donald Trump slurs his words accepting a bullshit prize for being the champion of beautiful clean coal, has anybody, did anybody see that on any of the networks? Was that on any of the television networks besides Fox? Because, you know, Fox is his propaganda network. But no, we don't see daily reminders, daily examples of Donald Trump slurring his words, not getting the words out, falling asleep, not making any sense. He's sleepy, Don. He's slurry, Don. He's all of those things. And could we just at least have some fairness? If people are going to drag Joe Biden through the mud and accuse him of losing his mind and losing his marbles, are we not going to hold Donald Trump to the same standard? I mean, it seems to me, and I've talked about this on the show before, Donald Trump is a poster child for the 25th Amendment. Donald Trump posts racist memes. He posts crazy shit in the middle of the night. He does this all the time. He's put his name on the Kennedy Center. He's put his name on the US Institute of Peace. He wants to build a giant arch in Washington, D.C. he knocked over half of the goddamn White House and wants to build a giant ballroom that nobody has approved. He's just gonna, he's just gonna try to do it. And almost every day there's another example of Donald Trump not having his shit together. And it seems to me that's a major problem. And do you know, do you know who for years, for years has known that Donald Trump might have a problem? There might be an issue with Donald Trump. There's this little thing called the 25th Amendment. As it turns out, Steve Bannon was texting with Jeffrey Epstein about the 25th Amendment. This is back in 2018. Jeffrey Epstein. There's a, there's a text exchange here I won't go all the way into, but it starts, this page starts with. And this is out of the Epstein files. You can look this up. I went onto the DOJ website and found this. Epstein, no, it does not stand for Fuck and blow. Spoke to my Dems this weekend. Boy, are emotions running high. Steve Bannon going to blow him up right out of the box. White House has zero plan to punch back. Fort Apache with no cavalry en route and no soldiers in the fort. Epstein responds, he is really borderline, not sure what he may do. Bannon I think it's beyond borderline. 25th amendment. Steve Bannon talking about the 25th amendment back in 2018. There's Steve Bannon with Jeffrey Epstein right there. There they are, the, the two amigos. They're missing their third amigo, Donald Trump, the President of the United States. But I'm sorry, if there were aids to Joe Biden seven, eight years ago, saying he should have been, you know, subject to the 25th Amendment, don't you think that would be big news in this country? Don't you think that if there were aids to Joe Biden, if Ron Clain or somebody like that eight years ago was saying Joe Biden, 25th Amendment, that that would be big news. It seems to me Steve Bannon and his texting with Jeffrey Epstein Talking about the 25th Amendment for Donald Trump should be big news. It's not just Donald Trump slurring his words. It's not just Donald Trump getting the words wrong. It's his own people. His own people who have had questions for years as to whether he is up to the job from a cognitive standpoint. And it seems to me we're seeing evidence of this every day. Nobody wants to talk about it. It's not in the news. There's too much going on. We're sipping through a fucking fire hose. But somebody ought to get on that. And it should be more than just yours truly. My thanks to James Carville for coming on the show today. My thanks to Peggy Flanagan, the Lieutenant Governor of Minnesota. My thanks to all of you for watching I don't say this often enough. I'm going to say it again right here at the end of the show. It does matter. When you support this program, make sure you're supporting independent media so we can continue to bring you stories like this. Be sure to, like, subscribe, share. It all matters. Whether you're watching on substack or YouTube, wherever you're getting your podcasts, it all helps us out in a big way. So support us on Substack, Support us on YouTube. It really does make a difference. But in the meantime, still reporting from Washington, I'm back home. Yes, I'm off the road for now. I'm Jim Acosta. I'll see you next time. Sa.