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The Jim Acosta Show
"Jim Acosta Show" Prime-Time Special Report: Dem. Rep. Ro Khanna on the Fight to Release the Epstein Files.
00:27:13
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Congressman Ro Khanna
Foreign.
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Jim Acosta
Welcome to the Jim Acosta Show. And it's another day that ends in Y. And Donald Trump's cover up of Epstein gate. It's also another day that ends in Y in his assault on American democracy. My big guest for this special edition of the Jim Acosta show is Congressman Ro Khanna of California. He is on the House Oversight Committee. Very important person who has been going after these Epstein documents as of late. Congressman, great to see you.
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Congressman Ro Khanna
Great to be on. I hear that you have quite the following on both substack and YouTube and X. So your, your career has just blossomed since your time as an anchor.
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Jim Acosta
I guess that's what they tell me. But, you know, I, I like this format. I like being on independent media. We can let our hair down a little bit more, although you and I keep it pretty high and tight. Your. Your barber not too different from my barber.
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Congressman Ro Khanna
But.
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Jim Acosta
But Congressman, I feel like we should jump right into this because you've been really leading the charge to get to the bottom of the Epstein matter, get Congress's hands on those Epstein files. I mean, there was that document release about eight days ago where we saw the birthday book, but there hasn't been a whole lot since then. There was a little bit that came in today, apparently, according to the Washington Post. But I'm just wondering how frustrating this is. It seems to me there's still a lot of stonewalling going on.
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Congressman Ro Khanna
There absolutely is, Jim. But let's take a step back about why this matters.
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Jim Acosta
Yeah.
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Congressman Ro Khanna
When we heard the emotional testimony of survivors, women who recounted being raped and assaulted at the age of 13 and 14, who were told that they couldn't call the police because Epstein or his friends knew powerful politicians and were too rich to be held accountable. So this is, first of all about standing with survivors. It's about protecting America's children. And it's about holding rich and powerful men who thought that they had impunity from anything accountable. You know, 90% of Americans think that the government doesn't work for them, that the government is rigged. And this is the biggest example of that. If you can't hold rich and powerful men who have abused young girls accountable, then obviously there's a breakdown in the system. That's why this has attracted such attention. That's why it's attracted bipartisan attention. Thomas Massie and I, as you know, have this discharge petition that has 217 signatures. Four Republicans, Marjorie Taylor Greene, Nancy Mays, Lauren Boebert, Thomas Massie, all who stuck with it despite getting pressure from the White House and the speaker day after day after day, largely because they heard the emotional testimonials of the survivors. We will get one more Signature on September 29th when the new member is sworn in. We may get it before that, but certainly by the 29th. And then we're going to have a vote in the House to force the release. Now, separately, the Oversight Committee has been doing excellent work. We had a tip to get the birthday book from Lawrence o' Donnell show and Bradley Edwards.
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Jim Acosta
All that.
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Congressman Ro Khanna
Yeah, we got that book. It had proved that the letter that the Wall Street Journal reported was in there. We've been releasing episodes and parts of that book, and most of that has been released. But in terms of getting things from the Justice Department itself, it's been stonewalling. And that's why we need this vote in the House to order a full release of the files.
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Jim Acosta
And I guess just to play off of that, is there a chance that, that you might get a successful vote, that this vote may happen? Because a lot of Republicans, I mean, they're under a lot of pressure from their own constituents to force the release of these files. And you mentioned that the White House has been putting pressure on these lawmakers and so on. But if you have four Republican members who are sort of with you right now, people like Massie and Marjorie Green, sounds like you might get the vote, that it could happen. Does some of this depend on the Speaker, Mike Johnson? What's your sense of it?
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Congressman Ro Khanna
I believe we're going to get the vote, and I believe the vote could be a fairly overwhelming vote there. There are people who won't sign the discharge petition, but if the bill actually comes to the House floor, they're not going to vote no on releasing the full files. And if we get there, I mean, you've covered Washington a long time. There's a lot that could go wrong. So I don't want to be overconfident, but if we get there, it will be the first time in my tenure in Congress over nine years, unfortunately, coinciding from when Trump was first elected, it'll be first time that the Republicans have voted as a majority against Donald Trump. And it shows the power of, of this issue. And then it'll go to the Senate. And now Senator Schumer has already taken a leadership interest there. And Senator Thune has started out by saying, well, we're not going to deal with it. And now he's talking about, well, we may, we let's see first what the House does. So there's going to be incredible Pressure on the Senate to act and not.
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Jim Acosta
To ask any pesky questions about this. But is it possible that Donald Trump could say no even after a vote from Congress? I suppose. I mean, they could lock the doors of the Justice Department. I don't know what they would do, but I mean, I could see a scenario where he just refuses to turn them over. I don't know if you guys have contemplated that, but it just seems to me that maybe that's something that could happen. I don't know.
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Congressman Ro Khanna
Sure. I mean, one, he could veto the bill and then it would take, that's true. It would take two thirds of the, the House and the Senate to overturn it. But each step is going to be incredible political pressure because this is not, you know, Adam Schiff, who I respect in the usual, Jamie Raskin was incredible. Sounding the alarms about Donald Trump's unconstitutional action. We've heard that song time and again. This is Marjorie Taylor Greene. This is Thomas Massie, this is Nancy Mace. This is Lauren Boebert saying that Donald Trump, you need to release these files to stand for, as Marjorie Taylor Greene put it, the forgotten Americans who don't have justice to stand against the rich and powerful. So every escalation is an enormous political blow to him that if we actually get a vote, if it passes the House, if it passes the Senate. And I just don't understand, I really don't understand why for the life of me he doesn't release the files. He campaigned on it. Vice President Vance campaign on it. Even if he has embarrassing stuff like the birthday book. I mean, that's sort of baked into Americans opinion. No one thinks the guy's a saint. But what's really upsetting folks is that what force is so powerful that is protecting people in those files?
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Jim Acosta
And do you have any doubt that there, there is additional information about him in the files? I mean, apparently the Justice Department went to Donald Trump, what was it, back in May, and said that he appears in there multiple times. We will. The birthday book. That's one time. I, I suppose you can say there are a couple of references to him in the birthday book, but that I'm no math genius, but that says to me that there would be other instances that we just don't know about. We don't know what it is.
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Congressman Ro Khanna
Well, I certainly haven't seen the files and you know, I don't want to speculate about what more he may be in because we've always said it's actually not even about Donald Trump. It's about justice for the Survivors. But what I can say is that there are many, many other rich, powerful men who are in those files. And you say, how do I know is because I've talked to the victim's lawyer who has seen the files and he says that there are a lot of other people who have not been held accountable who were involved in either Epstein's cover up or involved in this kind of farm system where young girls were trafficked from Epstein and then farmed out to other powerful people. And he has seen the files. He says that there are other such people there. And that's really the purpose of the release, is that it was a rotten system. You know, the British ambassador just got fired and, and, and his emails came out saying that he was trying to get Epstein a lower sentence. And I think that there is a lot of action like that. It's not just, okay, there were other men involved in possibly illicit sexual activities. It was that there were a lot of people trying to cover up for money laundering for a pedophile and part of this culture of corruption.
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Jim Acosta
Yeah. And this cover up has been going on for years. And I just wonder what was it like? Because I haven't had a chance to speak with you since those survivors appeared up on Capitol Hill. I mean, you're right, it is about them. It is about the victims, the survivors, their families. Virginia Giuffre, who's not even with us anymore, tragically committed suicide. What has this been like for them all these years?
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Congressman Ro Khanna
They showed so much courage. I mean, before they spoke, this issue was frankly petering out. The, the speaker pulled the maneuver of shutting down the entire Congress and we had been out for recess for six weeks and to some extent it was working. I mean, he had taken the story off the front pages and then these courageous woman said, we're going to tell the story for the first time and then re injected an entire moral dimension to the story. It was no longer politicians arguing over files and who would, which agency would release what. It was women in tears talking about being raped at the age of 13 or 14 and talking about having to recruit their junior high or high school friends to come knowing that they would be abused by older age men. And that's what led Marjorie Taylor Greene to join. That's what led Nancy Mace to join. That's what led Lauren Boebert to join. They heard these, these women and the entire country heard it. In fact, you know, the, the quote unquote betting markets and odds on these things said there was about a 30% chance that Massey and Khanna would succeed on getting these files released. And they shot up to 75% in four hours after that conference. So I. All the credit, it goes to those brave women who told their story.
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Jim Acosta
And I want to ask you about a moment that occurred during the Senate Judiciary hearing earlier today. The FBI director, Cash Patel, was asked a question by Senator John Kennedy about whether he had information. Cash Patel had information about girls being trafficked and whether that information is in the files. And this is what Cash Patel had to say. I just play that for you and get your reaction. That's okay.
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Congressman Ro Khanna
You've seen most of the files. Who, if anyone, did Epstein traffic these young, young women to besides himself himself?
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FBI Director Cash Patel
There is no credible information. None. If there were, I would bring the case yesterday that he trafficked to other individuals. And the information we have, again is limited.
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Congressman Ro Khanna
So the answer is no.
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FBI Director Cash Patel
1 for the information that we, we have in the f. In the case.
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Jim Acosta
Yeah. Congressman, I'm confused by Cash Patel's answer there, that he doesn't have any information about children being trafficked by Jeffrey Epstein. Galaine Maxwell is in prison for sex trafficking. Does that answer add up to you? Do you. What do you make of that?
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Congressman Ro Khanna
Well, I'm confused too. First of all, why don't they just release the files in it? Secondly, mean, what is it that they have to hide? And if there's nothing in it, just release them all? Secondly, the, the. The victim's lawyers have been very clear that there are other men involved in the COVID up for Epstein. So people like the British ambassador, we just saw that he was fired. That someone who's been involved in the COVID up, others involved in the financial fraud. And he said that there is not some detailed client list, but what happened is that there were women that Epstein abused or paid for sex and that they, he would informally have them farmed out to other men in his network. That is, that is what the victim's lawyer said who has seen these files. And there are thousands of witness interviews, right? Did other men have, uh, illegal sex with people they paid? Were they underage? I mean, I. Those are all questions that we need to find the answer to. But there's a simple way to put this all to rest. Release the witness interviews, release the files, let people know. And if there's no evidence of it, then it'll dispel the rumors. But when you have the victim saying, well, we'll put together the list ourselves. A man who used us, you know, obviously they and their lawyers are, Are, are belie. Believe that there were many others. Involved in the COVID up and in the abuse.
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Jim Acosta
I was going to ask you, do you think that that could take place where the survivors just put out the list as they understand it? So you know, the list as they under understand it as it might exist? We don't know what's in the files. We don't, they've denied that. There's a list I think is what Cash Patel Pambani said at one point, even though she said it was sitting on her. I mean the whole thing is just so damn confusing. But might these victims actually do this and put out what they understand to be the list?
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Congressman Ro Khanna
Yeah. So just clarify, as I understand it from the victim's lawyers, is there's no list of Jeffrey Epstein sitting there saying, okay, here are all the people who abuse women or abuse underage girls, but there are other people in his network who have either engaged in the COVID up or have engaged in the abuse of women, either paying for sex or having inappropriate relationships with underage girls. And that, that is what both the victims and the victims lawyers have told us. There is a good chance that the victims would put together those names, but I don't think that should be forced upon them. And my hope is we could just release the files so that we're not putting that burden on them.
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Jim Acosta
Yeah. And I'm just kind of, if you don't mind me asking the question, when you mentioned earlier that Donald Trump has put a lot of pressure on, on Republican lawmakers to not go along with releasing the Epstein files, sometimes you guys hear private conversations or you're involved in private conversation, you don't have to say who it's with. But have any Republican lawmakers told you, oh yeah, I'm getting pressure this is happening.
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Congressman Ro Khanna
Sure. I mean they have, they've said that they get calls all the time for the White House in some cases directly from, from the President. In other cases, people who work for the president. Of course, Thomas Massie's got $20 million against him, trying to take him out over this issue. Not over his votes on reconciliation or his votes on the, the US Israel relationship over this issue. They're going after Thomas Massie. And the reality is anyone, obviously Massey is taking more risk, but anyone who goes up against powerful interests is putting themselves in, in the, in the line of a political fire. And that, that's unfortunate that we live in that kind of society.
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Jim Acosta
And I know you, you have limited time. I don't want to burden you with too many questions, but I, I have to ask you about that birthday book and the way that the White House, the way Caroline Levitt, the press secretary, they. I mean, they just twisted themselves into a pretzel saying, this is not his signature. He didn't write this. This isn't from him, and so on. Do you have any doubt that this is from him? People have seen the signature and seen it compared, you know, alongside other signatures with the D and the tail coming off the D. And what is. What is your sense of that birthday book and their denials just shows we can't believe them.
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Congressman Ro Khanna
I mean, the lawyers who looked at it believe that it is his signature on. In the Oversight Committee and his letter, even if you believe them, that, oh, it's some staffer or someone else who signed it or something, I mean, he. Obviously, it's hard to believe that he didn't know about a letter going to Jeffrey Epstein with that content. And it's odd why he would lie about something like this. I mean, obviously it's embarrassing, but is it more embarrassing than the Access Hollywood tape? Is it more embarrassing than all the cases he had? I mean, this is sort of baked into the American public. No one. No one thinks that he's a saint and that that's why it's so odd that he's not releasing these files. I mean, he has every incentive to release them. And, okay, this is the all that's in there. Yeah, people are horrified by it, but it's not. It's not something that's unexpected. What is really upsetting his base is that they expected him to. To hold rich and powerful people accountable, and that's. His protecting them is really what is hurting him.
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Jim Acosta
Yeah, I mean, that was the basis for the QAnon conspiracy theory that I heard time and again, you know, talked about at Trump Rall. You know, he played up to the QAnon crowd. And that whole thing is built around this idea that there's this cabal of child sex traffickers led by Democratic politics. I mean, so to be it, he's teed this up where it's just kind of blown up in his face, I guess. You know, the last thing I'll ask you is what's it like working with not just Thomas Massie, but Marjorie Taylor Greene? Did you ever think you'd find yourself in this position where you're working with some pretty strident lawmakers from the right side of the spectrum? I'll just put it in diplomatic terms.
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Congressman Ro Khanna
I. I did not. Look, Thomas Massey is a brilliant guy. I mean, I have my disagreements and vociferous disagreements. He's an MIT graduate. He wears on his lapel a, a device that has the running total of our national debt, which he's programmed himself. And unlike some of his colleagues, I disagree with him. But he, he cast votes that actually have the math add up. Now, he would cut social spending and I, I wouldn't, I tax the wealthy. But at least he's somewhat consistent with his, his ideology. So I enjoy working with him. I have profound disagreements. But he is principled for what, what he believes. Marjorie Green I, I've never worked with before. She gave me a hug. It was such an emotional moment after the testimonials. And I, I will say on, on this issue, when she said, look, there are two Americas and one America is for the rich and powerful. They have a different set of justice. And then another America for those abandoned and the victims fall in the abandoned America. You got, you could have pulled that speech out of fdr. You could have pulled that speech out of Mario Cuomo. And so she's speaking to an anger in this country that the government is working only for a few. And it's the anger of, at the heart of QANON that are there all these politicians are part of sex trafficking who involved in, in government. Look, the first casualty of all this in terms of politicians was a labor ambassador who was very close to Tony Blair and Gordon Gordon Brown. So it's not partisan. I mean it's, and if it implicates Democratic politicians, so be it. But, and people say, well, you're late to this, etc. Who cares about, I mean, I, I can argue the record, but who cares at this point? Let's just get the truth. I mean, you've been on the right. I say you've been wanting this all the time. Now you got Republicans, Democrats working together. Let's just get it out there.
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Jim Acosta
Yeah, and I, I guess just finally, finally, I mean, when you talk about the, the bravery and the courage of the survivors and the victims being up on Capitol Hill speaking out the way they did, and then Donald Trump, you know, going out the same day and calling it a hoax and so on, I mean, first of all, it says to me, it's just very heartless to talk about it in those terms when you have people speaking from the heart about their own personal experiences. But also it just seems to be nobody's buying this hoax thing anymore. I don't think anybody thinks it's a hoax, except he seems to think he, it's okay for him to say it's a hoax. It's Just it's so strange.
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Congressman Ro Khanna
So it was so offensive. I had no problem with him taking shots or Carolyn Level take shots in May or Massey. I mean, that comes with a Turner. You sign up, you run for politics, but you've got people who are in tears talking about being raped at the age of 14. And the same time you're calling it a hoax. And all they're saying, by the way, they didn't even criticize him. Some of some said, I voted for you.
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Jim Acosta
Right.
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Congressman Ro Khanna
All they asked is for a meeting from him. And they were pleading with him, just help, help do right by us. We don't have full memories of that time. We want to see the files and, and folks like Speaker Johnson who, I disagree with that, the decency to say they were very moved by these, by, by these victims. Donald Trump was just out of touch. He's, he's shown disregard for, for their stories, for their trauma, for their hurt. But I, I've got to tell you, as I've gone around the country, the, the biggest comment I get is not go get Donald Trump, it's thank you for standing with survivors. I've had women pull me aside and said, you know, Ro, this, this, something happened to me when I was young and I haven't really shared it publicly, but I was assaulted, I was raped, I, I was abused. And for me, it's been eye opening about how we've degraded women in our culture and how many people have suffered some kind of assault or rape or abuse. And you look at the birthday book and the biggest thing I am is just horrified for how rich and powerful men are talking about women and objectifying women and treating them as property. And so, you know, this whole thing has to be a big wake up call, not just about rich and powerful men being held accountable, but what have we done in a culture that so degrades and demeans women and how do we do better by women? And I, that's why I'm so confident that the, the three women other than Massey aren't going to get off the discharge petition. I think they see this as just a fundamental issue of respect for women.
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Jim Acosta
Well, Congressman Rokhan, I really appreciate your time. Thank you very much. I agree with you wholeheartedly that I think this cuts to the core for so many people, people who have mothers, daughters, sisters, wives. I mean, this is about how society treats women and how it responds to stories of abuse. And it's not something that should just be pushed off to the side. It needs to be dealt with. And I appreciate what you're doing. And I know there are a lot of other folks out there who really appreciate the bi. There's not a whole lot of bipartisanship that goes on in Washington, but you're doing it right now, and it's for something that I think the vast majority of Americans want to see happen, release the files.
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Congressman Ro Khanna
Well, you summed it up, Jim. That's really what we need. And, and it will answer a lot of these questions. And I'm committed, as is Thomas Massie, to fighting this until, until that happens.
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Jim Acosta
Thank you, Congressman. Really appreciate your time.
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Congressman Ro Khanna
Thank you. Thank you for having me.
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Jim Acosta
Good to see you, sir. Thanks for being generous with your time. Thanks a lot. Good to see you. That's Congressman Ro Khanna of California. And you heard him say during the interview that, you know, he's becoming more optimistic. And it's hard to be optimistic about this particular investigation because of the person who's at the heart of it, Donald Trump, blocking the release of these files. It's hard to believe that we're actually going to see him lose, being on the losing side of this issue. And it's not about winning and losing, but he is the one who is trying to block the release of these files and that we might see them actually get turned over and made public. That will be an extraordinary moment in this country, in particular, in part because of what the congressman was saying a few moments ago, because it will be because a lot of Republican lawmakers defied Donald Trump and voted against what he has expressed. And, you know, I, I will say, you know, there's a lot of folks who run down politicians in Washington and members of Congress and so on and say the Democrats don't have a lot of fight and all this sort of thing. Congressman Ro Khanna teamed up with one of the most conservative members of Congress, Thomas Massie. He's now teamed up with people like Marjorie Taylor Greene and Lauren Boebert. I mean, those are the most, I don't know if you can get more conservative than that. And they're trying to make something happen that I think if it does happen, it's going to go a long way. It's not going to restore, you know, what is. What is, let's just face it, a gaping hole in a lot of these women after what they went through, it's not going to restore that. But what they're looking for, and I've spoken with some of them, what they're looking for is, is some semblance of feeling like they're being heard that Somebody's looking out for their interests, that this is not something that's just going to get buried. It can't go down like that. It just can't. And so I'm appreciative that there is a bipartisan effort happening in Congress right now where somebody's trying to make this happen. I think it's a. It's a very positive and healthy. With everything that's going on that is so negative and so awful, it is. It is good to see this kind of effort going on. And I appreciate Congressman Roana for making that time for us. Hey, everybody. I don't typically come on in the evening, so hopefully I didn't sound too sleepy after having my dinner. Duke was coming over for a few pets during, during the podcast, so I hope that was okay as well. But I'll be back at it, uh, same time usually in the afternoon, tomorrow, 4 o'. Clock. But I want it. Ro Khanna was available this evening at seven o'. Clock. I wanted to make sure that we all had a chance to hear from him. And my thanks to everybody watching on substack and I believe on. On YouTube live right now. And we'll keep trying to do these in the future more and more as we get important lawmakers who are available in the evening. I'll endeavor to keep doing this as well. But my thanks to Congressman Ro Khanna and my thanks to all the survivors out there who just are still fighting for the release of these files and all of the viewers and folks on both substack, YouTube everywhere else who have been. And I get the messages, folks. I get these comments from all of you that it is time to release these files. And I want to make sure that we don't lose sight of that storyline. I know there's a lot of stuff happening in the news, but we can't lose sight of this very, very important issue. All right, thanks everybody for watching. Still reporting from Washington, I'm Jim Acosta. Have a good evening.