Jim Discusses the Latest Epstein & Iran Developments with Steve Schmidt, and Ronan Farrow Talks about His Blockbuster Reporting on AI-Mogul, Sam Altman

Summary

The Jim Acosta Show — April 10, 2026

Episode Overview

In this episode, Jim Acosta tackles two explosive stories shaping the week: the Trump administration’s latest attempt to shift blame on the Epstein scandal—centered on a controversial statement from Melania Trump—and the unraveling U.S.-Iran situation. Steve Schmidt joins for an unflinching debrief on both. Later, Pulitzer-winning journalist Ronan Farrow dives into his major New Yorker investigation of Sam Altman and the lurking risks in the global race for generative AI. The episode is packed with sharp analysis, notable exchanges, and warnings resonating far beyond the day’s news cycle.

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Section 1: Melania Trump’s Epstein Statement and the Ongoing Cover-Up

Key Discussion Points

• Melania Trump’s White House Statement (00:06–08:00)

  • Melania publicly distances herself from Epstein, claiming he didn’t introduce her to Trump and denying any connection, despite documented evidence and friendships (including with Ghislaine Maxwell).
  • Survivors respond critically, accusing Melania of shifting blame to victims and furthering their public exposure.
  • The move is seen as a deliberate distraction orchestrated by the administration to deflect from the scandal.

• Steve Schmidt’s Scathing Take:

  • Portrays Melania as emblematic of emptiness and staging, suggesting her role is manufactured for public manipulation.
  • Criticizes her for “crocodile tears,” hypocrisy regarding her husband’s abuse allegations, and points to a broader pattern within Trump circles.

Notable Quotes

• On Melania’s performance:

  “What did you make of that? ...they sort of rolled her out there as yet another distraction for this White House and for Epstein gate?”
  —Jim Acosta (00:57)

• On staged empathy:

  “Everything you saw there was staged, it was rehearsed and it was presented in a meeting, in a plan as a good idea, such as Melania, you’ll walk on...”
  —Steve Schmidt (06:53)

Timestamps

• Melania's statement and survivor backlash: 00:06–05:34
• Steve Schmidt's breakdown & context: 05:35–08:00

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Section 2: Iran, Trump’s Foreign Policy Crisis & the Administration’s Fallout

Key Discussion Points

• America's Defeat in the Iran Conflict (09:13–12:23)

  • Schmidt declares this the week “America lost the war” in the Middle East, outlining its long-term strategic consequences.
  • Trump is portrayed as outmaneuvered by Iran, having lost control of the critical Strait of Hormuz (now de facto Iranian territory), resulting in economic risks like European fuel shortages and increased Iranian leverage.

• Diplomatic Dysfunction

  • JD Vance, Jared Kushner, and Steve Witkoff improbably head negotiating teams—Schmidt likens them to the “worst possible” choices.
  • Satirical contrast with historic U.S. diplomatic teams (e.g., James Baker, Clinton/Arafat).

• Media and MAGA Response Meltdown

  • Clip played of Buttigieg debating CNBC’s Joe Kernan, exposing pro-Trump talking points as unraveling (15:09).
  • Schmidt: “Iran did not have a nuclear weapon. But...every single member of the Iranian government believes...they need to get one as fast as possible.”

Notable Quotes

• On U.S. defeat in Iran:

  “This was the week America lost the war. And that defeat will have myriad consequences for many, many years to come. Absolute strategic catastrophe...”
  —Steve Schmidt (09:15)

• On negotiation team:

  “In a country of 330 million people, I’m not sure it’s statistically possible...that you could draw a worse hand. Three people, right?”
  —Steve Schmidt (13:19)

Timestamps

• Iran crisis breakdown: 09:13–12:23
• Discussion of failed U.S. diplomacy: 12:23–14:31
• Buttigieg v. Kernan clip: 15:09–16:41
• Analysis of nuclear risk: 16:56–17:29

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Section 3: Trump’s MAGA Civil War—The Turning on Allies

Key Discussion Points

• Trump’s Truth Social Rant and MAGA Rift (21:19–24:41)

  • Trump lashes out at past allies: Megyn Kelly, Tucker Carlson, Candace Owens, Alex Jones, as conservative media begins openly criticizing his Iran policy.
  • Acosta and Schmidt highlight the “frog and scorpion” metaphor—Trump inevitably turns on everyone, even loyalists.

• Prediction: Tucker Carlson 2028

  • Schmidt predicts Carlson’s presidential run as MAGA shifts from Trump to new figureheads, claiming Trump will be remembered among his movement’s own as “ineffective, weak...and crazy.”

Notable Quotes

• On MAGA’s self-destruction:

  “There is no bus that has had as many people thrown under it as the Trump bus.”
  —Jim Acosta (26:37)

• On Tucker Carlson:

  “Mark this date, the official prediction: Tucker Carlson’s running for president.”
  —Steve Schmidt (23:30)

Timestamps

• Trump’s attack on former media allies: 21:19–22:29
• Frog/scorpion parable & MAGA disillusionment: 22:29–24:41
• Prediction on MAGA’s future: 23:30–25:38

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Section 4: Ronan Farrow on Sam Altman, OpenAI, and the Dangers of AI

Key Discussion Points

• Genesis of the Altman Investigation (31:45–35:47)

  • Farrow frames the rise of AI moguls as a repeat of Musk’s rise: private tech increasingly outpaces and evades government oversight.
  • OpenAI’s founding ideals—safety and openness—are now compromised as profit and secrecy dominate.

• AI Safety Abandoned

  • Altman criticized by ex-board members and researchers for lack of trustworthiness, fostering a “race to the bottom” on safety; whistleblower evidence cited.
  • Even rival companies like Anthropic, set up to be the “safety people,” are also watering down core commitments.

• Threat Horizons (40:06–48:30)

  • Economic risks: banking sector on edge, possible destabilizing consequences for jobs and markets.
  • Security: autonomy in weapons, risk of misuse by undemocratic regimes, and exposure to cyberattacks.
  • Political: rapid advances outpace government/public oversight, legislative branch “asleep at the wheel.”

• Farrow on Altman’s Character

  • Farrow resists calling Altman a “bad guy,” but stresses many sources in the AI field privately label him a “sociopath, a scammer, a pathological liar.”
  • Altman’s defense: admits to flaws, but perception persists that the industry—now in full hype mode—lacks trustworthy leadership at the top.

• Are We Facing Skynet Yet? (49:05–53:38)

  • No, but multiple tech-induced crises are already here: political disinformation, economic bubbles, automation’s job destruction, and AI-enabled weapon misuse.
  • Regulatory responses lag far behind.

Notable Quotes

• On unchecked tech power:

  “Silicon Valley assuming control of the levers of power in America...AI was the next frontier of that challenge of power imbalance.”
  —Ronan Farrow (33:25)

• On industry’s moral hazard:

  “You can't have, you know, pathological liars running technologies...that could blow up our economy or blow up, you know, something even more severe than that.”
  —Jim Acosta (53:49)

Timestamps

• Farrow’s investigation background: 31:45–35:47
• Specific whistleblower/AI safety concerns: 36:45–41:15
• Broader threats and lack of oversight: 40:06–44:50
• Farrow on Altman’s character and Silicon Valley dynamics: 44:57–48:30
• Is AI an existential threat?: 48:30–53:38
• Farrow’s notes on supporting real journalism: 55:38–56:32

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Section 5: Reflections and Closing

Key Points

• Artemis Mission and Human Potential (56:52)
  • Acosta marvels at NASA's Artemis 2 mission photos, framing them as proof of humanity’s capable side.
• Returning to Trump’s “Snake” Story
  • Acosta pivots sharply: Trump tells the “snake” parable about immigrants but, Acosta points out, is actually warning about himself.
  • A direct message to formerly loyal media figures now on the outs: “You knew he was a snake the day you took him in.”

Notable Quotes

• On Trump’s parable:

  “You knew he was a snake the day you took him in...he’s telling you the story of the snake to warn you...he will bite you in the end.”
  —Jim Acosta (End)

• On Trump’s record with allies:

  “Michael Cohen, Rudy Giuliani, Steve Bannon, you know, Mike Pence...There is no bus that has had as many people thrown under it as the Trump bus.”
  —Jim Acosta (Summary)

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Memorable Moments & Notable Exchanges

• Steve Schmidt’s blistering sarcasm on the Iran negotiating team:
  “I’m not sure it’s statistically possible...to draw a worse hand. Three people, right?” (13:19)

• Ronan Farrow’s deep-dive on AI moguls: “The very people who are building AI are now in full acceleration mode...sidelining safety in the process.” (35:47)

• Acosta’s parting shot to MAGA media: “Welcome to the fucking show. Welcome to the party, pals...You knew he was a snake the day you took him in.” (End)

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Structured Timeline of Main Segments

| Timestamp | Segment | Topic/Event | |-----------|----------------------------------------|-----------------------------------| | 00:06 | Segment 1 | Melania Trump, Epstein statement | | 09:13 | Segment 2 | Iran crisis, U.S. defeat | | 15:09 | Notable Clip | Buttigieg v. Kernan debate | | 21:19 | Segment 3 | Trump vs. MAGA media, fallout | | 31:45 | Segment 4 (Ronan Farrow) | AI, Altman exposé | | 56:52 | Reflections & Closing | Artemis, Trump “snake” parable |

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Final Thoughts

This episode is a rollicking, at times caustic, but always substantive breakdown of (a) the latest layers of the Epstein cover-up (b) Trump’s unraveling Iran strategy and the shockwaves across conservative media, and (c) a must-hear discussion on Silicon Valley’s unchecked march into powerful AI with Ronan Farrow. Schmidt’s sharp tongue and Acosta’s unrelenting directness match Ronan Farrow’s rigor, making this episode essential listening for anyone tracking the intersection of scandal, geopolitics, and technology.

Transcript

[Ronan Farrow]

Foreign.

[Jim Acosta]

Welcome to the Jim Acosta show. It's another day that ends in Y. And the Epstein gate cover up Melania Trump, the first lady, the latest public official in the Trump administration, to essentially shift the burden from Donald Trump, from the people around Donald Trump, and covering up the Epstein files, and try to distract the public with a statement that she gave over at the White House yesterday. Now, the survivors of Jeffrey Epstein have put out a statement accusing Melania Trump of shifting the burden onto the survivors when she made that extraordinary statement at the White House yesterday. A lot to talk about. Let's bring in Steve Schmidt. Steve, great to see you again. We've been calling this. Oh, Schmidt, it's Friday and it's a hell of a Friday. What a week.

[Steve Schmidt]

What a week.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah. You know, you know, to me, seeing Melania come out there and make this statement in front of the cameras yesterday, I'm, I'm still. My jaw is still on the floor. Mouth is agape over that. And, you know, it was pretty bizarre in, in a lot of different ways. One in which, you know, at one point she referred to her husband as Donald Trump, which I thought was strange. But what did you make of that? And, and what do you think about the fact that, I mean, they sort of rolled her out there as yet another distraction for this White House and for Epstein gate?

[Steve Schmidt]

Well, this is one where I, I'm uncertain about whether there's any coordination about who rolled who out. But, yeah, I think Melania is an enigma and has been for a long time. And we've gotten to see peaks of Melania over time to see fully who she is and what she is is nothing. It's empty, icy.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah.

[Steve Schmidt]

And this preposterous movie. Her record, low approval numbers, and she walks out as if she's the head of state.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah.

[Steve Schmidt]

He passes under the presidential seal as if she's the Queen of America. Stands between two American flags behind another presidential seal at the lectern.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah.

[Steve Schmidt]

Delivers this nonsensical statement that alleges, despite photographic and other documented evidence, that she doesn't know Jeffrey Epstein and they're not friends, and it's just not true. And so we saw this extraordinary cover up led by Pam Bondi play out that included in part of further victimization of Epstein survivors, where their identities are revealed, where their anonymity is stripped. And in this instance, the hide the ball that she's playing is both obvious and absurd. And I think that universally, people appreciate, we don't really need to know any more details about the depravity that was imposed on all of these women. Well, what we need to know is who did it.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah.

[Steve Schmidt]

And that's why the American people want to see the other half of the Epstein files fully revealed at CNN to the COVID up. And Melania Trump should be calling if she cared about these survivors, for the resignation of Todd Blanche.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah.

[Steve Schmidt]

Not hearings that further degrade these women and the choices and control they have over their life.

[Jim Acosta]

It's awful, right? Yeah. I mean, their stories have been shared with the authorities. They, many of them have spoken out to the media. I don't know why Melania, she tried to hide under the COVID of saying, well, you know, the victims and the survivor should speak and have their stories entered in the congressional record. And it makes her sound as, as though she is, you know, looking out for them when really it seems to me she's looking out for herself. If Bill and Hillary Clinton are being called in to testify in front of the House Oversight Committee, Donald and Melania Trump, I mean, they should have been the very first people to be called in to testify. And Melania Trump appears to be covering up her own relationship with Jeffrey Epstein. We should play, I want to get you to go off on this, Steve, but let's play a little bit of what she said and then talk about it because what she said was very important.

[Melania Trump]

If we have the false smears about me from mean spirited and politically motivated individuals and entities looking to cause damage to my good name to gain financially and climb politically must.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah. There's not.

[Melania Trump]

Epstein's victim. Epstein did not introduce me to Donald Trump. I met my husband by chance at the New York city party in 1998.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah. She says, you know, Epstein did not introduce her to Donald Trump. She refers to her husband as Donald Trump there. But I mean, Steve, your thoughts on this? It just seems to me that this was a very. Laura Lee. It looked like she was trying to get ahead of a story and it was a bit too cute by half. We know that they had a friendship. We know that they were friends.

[Steve Schmidt]

Let's, let's, let's slow it down.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah.

[Steve Schmidt]

I mean, really slow it down. We're watching Melania Trump talk about mean spirited individuals and her good name. This is Donald Trump's wife.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah.

[Steve Schmidt]

She's married to an adjudicated rapist, an abuser of women. She's married to the man who evidence was gathered against in the released FBI 302 files to document what happened again, allegedly between him and a 13 year old. He, he's a man who threatened to exterminate a 7,000 year old civilization this week.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah.

[Steve Schmidt]

And threatened it again this afternoon, apparently. So spare me the crocodile tears, would I. What I find amazing when I watch this, I always, I always look at through the eye of my, my previous career is that everything you saw there was staged, it was rehearsed and it was presented in a meeting, in a plan as a good idea, such as Melania, you'll walk on. Oh, yes, it would be a good. Right there.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah.

[Steve Schmidt]

She. She walks on.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah.

[Steve Schmidt]

All of it is staged. And this is a person who we know is calling herself a few weeks back. She's a visionary. She's alone at the top. This is a delusional person surrounded by delusional people inside a delusional space with other delusional people. It's really incredible to watch.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah.

[Steve Schmidt]

Great victim. And, and by the way, yeah. She had a close relationship with these people. So she lies like all the Trumps.

[Jim Acosta]

Right? Exactly. Lying is what they do. And I mean, she was obviously close to Ghislaine Maxwell. There's this email that we were showing yesterday where that, you know, she signs it Love Melania. I mean, you know, again, right. We shouldn't spend all our time picking apart this stuff because, you know, maybe she doesn't lie as much as her husband, but that was, you know, USDA grade A what we heard from Melania Trump over at the White House. And when apparently Donald Trump told Ms. Now or somebody, some reporter, I think it was Jackie Alemany, that they didn't know that Melania Trump went out. Give me a break. You're going to tell me that the First Lady's office set up a statement to the nation without the knowledge of the West Wing, without the knowledge of the White House press office, which would have obviously told Donald Trump had. Had something been cooking without their knowledge. I, I just don't. And Susie Wiles wasn't abreast. Give me a break. I, you know, they, this whole thing, to me, it's almost as though they rolled her out to distract from the Iran war, which is a disaster for Donald Trump right now. And it looks like this peace plan is blowing up. The ceasefire thing is blowing up in his face.

[Ronan Farrow]

Of course.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah.

[Steve Schmidt]

This was the week America lost the war. And that defeat will have myriad consequences for many, many, many years to come. Absolute strategic catastrophe in the Middle east for the United States.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah. Because the Iranians exposed to the world. Exactly what you need to do in terms of applying pressure on the US to get Donald Trump to squeal like a pig. The Iranians got him to squeal like a pig. He was that when he said, I'm going to wipe out your civilization, that was Donald Trump squealing like a pig. It seems to me that was him saying, I'm done, uncle, please get me out of this.

[Steve Schmidt]

Well, I, I mean, look, in addition

[Jim Acosta]

to it being appalling. Yeah.

[Steve Schmidt]

He, he started a war with no plan for victory, without any strategy for a departure, with no clear goals. And if there is one thing that every policymaker, when you just turn off all the. Should have absorbed over the first 25 years of the 21st century, it's that it's a lot easier to start a war than to end a war. Yeah. And Donald Trump has set it up that Iran now controls the ending of the war. And what he's achieved is not the regime change that he promised. What he's achieved is not the denuclearization of Iran, which he promised and said he achieved when he obliterated it before he had to obliterate it again. Before he had to obliterate it again. Before he had to obliterate it again. Didn't achieve. Didn't achieve any, any of that. And what he did achieve is expand Iranian territory. Because before this, the Strait of Hormuz was an international waterway. And tonight, by the light of the Persian moon, it is an Iranian toll road.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah.

[Steve Schmidt]

Run by the Iranian Revolutionary Guard, through which they're in a position to pocket some $90 billion. It's incredible to imagine the response of Lindsey Graham if Barack Obama had somehow been able to manage to engineer the feat of transferring control of the Strait of Hormuz to Iran, where they could charge $90 billion a year for the transport of the world's crude oil supply and fertilizer supply.

[Jim Acosta]

That's right.

[Steve Schmidt]

And by the way, the strait remains closed.

[Jim Acosta]

That's right.

[Steve Schmidt]

Is an acute possibility of fuel shortages in Europe, including jet fuel. And everything is interconnected in the world, and this will be felt in the United States.

[Jim Acosta]

That's exactly right. And you know, this is the way the New York Times is pulling it. The US Delegation is set to meet with Iranian officials in Pakistan on Saturday for talks as continued strikes in the region test a tenuous ceasefire. Pakistan brokered the two week ceasefire between the US And Iran on Tuesday. JD Vance is apparently leading the talks along with Jared Kushner and Steve Witkoff.

[Steve Schmidt]

Now we're in good hands.

[Jim Acosta]

I was gonna. Gone are the days of Clinton and, And Yasser Arafat and. And Ehud. Barack. I Guess we don't have master negotiators here anymore. We don't have the likes of, of James Baker. I, I guess these are the folks that we're left with representing the United States in a pretty tense situation. Steve. Forgive me if I'm not, if I'm not feeling assured here that this is, you know, if I'm not feeling comfortable that we're on the path to peace.

[Steve Schmidt]

I mean, I mean, this as serious as a heart attack. If you take out the people that just from the sample that are in federal prison, people that are in psychiatric institutions, you just take them out of consideration. In a country of 330 million people, I'm not sure it's statistically possible, just in any random sample, that you could draw a worse hand. Three people, right? Assemble me a team of three, right? With divine help, right? That is incompetent, corrupt, treacherous, strange, out of their depth. It's inconceivable to me that anybody could come up. Maybe, maybe there's that show with that inbred family from Arkansas. Maybe them. But, but aside from them, that. That's it. I, I can't, I can't even imagine. Yeah, I can't even imagine. That's our, that's the American negotiating team.

[Jim Acosta]

No, and, and, and what's amazing is that the, the mouthpieces for Donald Trump these days are having a really tough. What he's, you know, the master negotiator, the art of the deal. I mean, they've been so brainwashed with this that they can't get the words out the talking points outright anymore. There's this guy on CNBC who presents himself as a serious business journalist, Joe Kernan. He was getting twisted in a pretzel this morning by Pete Buttigieg as Joe Kernan, I guess, was trying to pedal these talking points about how this is going swimmingly for Donald Trump. Let's play this. Because Buttigieg just gets him all tied up in knots. Let's watch.

[Joe Kernan]

Assured us that he ended their nuclear ambitions. If he wants to come clean with the American people, that he failed to do that, then he has to say that before he launches a war.

[Pete Buttigieg]

Democrats, Democrats at that time said, no, you haven't. And then you have.

[Jim Acosta]

Clearly he hadn't.

[Pete Buttigieg]

Clearly that he hadn't. So then we needed to go. We needed to go back and take care of it. Unless you really think it's okay for Iran to have a nuclear weapon.

[Joe Kernan]

But again, they don't have a nuclear weapon. They weren't about to get a nuclear Weapon.

[Pete Buttigieg]

How do you know? Why do you keep saying they weren't about to go? And Steve Wyckoff said they had enough vision, visible material for 11 bombs.

[Joe Kernan]

So you were acknowledging the president lied when he said, I don't know what.

[Pete Buttigieg]

No one knew what happened.

[Joe Kernan]

He didn't know or he was lying. Which is it?

[Pete Buttigieg]

Is that really the point? Whether.

[Joe Kernan]

Point is in my name.

[Pete Buttigieg]

Whether Michigan, whether or not he was being. Knew it was obliterated or not is not the point. If it wasn't obliterated, then you have to do something. You can't go back and say, well, you lied about this show so that we can't. Now we can't actually do what we need to do.

[Jim Acosta]

Embarrassing.

[Joe Kernan]

America is weaker because the president launched.

[Pete Buttigieg]

Well, that's, that's your opinion.

[Jim Acosta]

That's not.

[Joe Kernan]

No, no, but it's clear. And I'll tell you why.

[Pete Buttigieg]

Because when Trump, secretary of NATO, say the world is a safer place. He just said that yesterday.

[Joe Kernan]

His job is to butter up the president. But the. Why do you think the president chickened out on his demand?

[Jim Acosta]

Why the hell.

[Joe Kernan]

The president backed off of his demand.

[Pete Buttigieg]

The president backed off of which demand

[Joe Kernan]

unconditional surrender right now instead of unconditional surrender, which was the president one month.

[Pete Buttigieg]

This is not over yet. Number.

[Jim Acosta]

Number one, is this unconditional.

[Pete Buttigieg]

I don't know what it's going to end up being.

[Joe Kernan]

I'll tell you what.

[Pete Buttigieg]

We've got straight reopens again. And they, they no Navy.

[Joe Kernan]

So the best case scenario is the straight being open. The straight was open.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah. I mean, I, I think Joe Kernan would like an unconditional surrender. He's not getting one. He was waving the white flag there. But, Steve, I mean, all the experts say Iran was not close to getting a bomb when this started.

[Steve Schmidt]

Iran did not have a nuclear. Nuclear weapon.

[Jim Acosta]

Right.

[Steve Schmidt]

And it does not have a nuclear weapon. Right. But I'll tell you what. In the real world, in Iran, every single member of the Iranian government believes one thing tonight. They need to get one as fast as possible. So this never, ever happens again.

[Jim Acosta]

That's right.

[Steve Schmidt]

What, what, what this war has exposed is that the United States is not prepared to fight a global war in the 21st century as the preeminent power. You, you look at 1944, which is a year of unrivaled American power in the world, built 8,000 aircraft. The Ukrainians built 8 million drones last year. So the ability to build drones that make your aircraft carrier an antiquated weapons platform. See the Gerald Ford sailing back to Greece after a fire disables it. The Abraham Lincoln out in the Indian Ocean, out of range of the Iranian armaments. And we're talking about Iran, not a fight in the Western Pacific. So we've seen a lot of valuable lessons learned from the size of our weapons inventory to its indiscriminate use. But astonishingly, in this story in the New York Times, in the reporting of Jonathan Swann and Maggie Haberman, from a book they're working on together, takes you into a room where, incredibly, JD Vance is not in the room, Tulsi Gabbard is not in the room, but Stephen Chung is in the room and Carolyn Levitt is in the room.

[Jim Acosta]

Unreal.

[Steve Schmidt]

And Trump goes around the room, and it's comforting to know that General Kaine, he has the same position as Stephen Chung and Carolyn Levitt. Raisin Cain, old General Kane. Right.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah.

[Steve Schmidt]

Right. The chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff has the same exact position as Carolyn Levitt when it comes to his dear leader, which is whatever you decide it's the right thing to do. The right thing to do. Right. So that's the advice that Donald Trump gets around the table. Whatever you decide, it's brilliant. Right. To bomb or not to bomb, you decide. And so what we have achieved, not my words. I've been, I've been right. Before this began, what I talked about with you was that the Strait of Hormuz was a very narrow waterway between Oman and Iran.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah.

[Steve Schmidt]

And that you couldn't control it with air power. That's what we talked about.

[Jim Acosta]

That's it.

[Steve Schmidt]

But no one talked about that in the Situation Room where BB Netanyahu was.

[Jim Acosta]

Right. Apparently, John. Yeah. John Ratcliffe said, you know, regime change was farcical in the very least. John Rad, who, who was the head of the CIA, despite not really having any intelligence experience up until Donald Trump put him in charge of intelligence, at least raised some decent points. And, but Trump, you know, giving it about as much thought as he gives a truth. Social post said, let's, let's do it. Despite just about every US president for the last 50 years basically telling the Israelis the same thing. No, we're not going to go to war with Iran. The Israelis, finally, Bibi Netanyahu finally found a president who will go to war with Iran. And now we're seeing the consequences of it.

[Steve Schmidt]

And the Iranians have control of the strait. Yeah. Because the insurance markets have ruled that the strait is contested so long as the insurance markets hold that the strait is militarily contested. The Iranians Control the strait such. And thus is the interconnected global economy.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah. And you know, speaking of true social posts, you know, Steve, you think you and I give Donald Trump a hard time? Not as hard as Megyn Kelly, Tucker Carlson and other MAGA figures who used to call the, the likes of us victims of Trump derangement syndrome. Donald Trump published or posted this massive screed on his truth social account. And I, I found an article that talks about it that, that mentions the number of words here. I just want to find this because it's absolutely crazy. Apparently it's, it's like, it's 482 words, this truth social of Trump going after Tucker Carlson, Megan Kelly, Candace Owens and Alex Jones. And I was going to end the show and I'll, and I'll, I'll just, I'll say it now, but I'll reiterate it at the end of this, at the end of the show, I feel like saying to Megyn Kelly and Tucker Carlson, I told you so. We told you so. We told you that Donald Trump was a maniac and we told you that he would eventually throw you under the bus. And he's now, he's throwing them under the bus and attacking them for raising legitimate criticisms of his policy towards Iran, which is a hot, stinking mess,

[Steve Schmidt]

I think, for sure. You know, this is the story of the frog in the scorpion, where the frog carries the scorpion across the river, the scorpion promising not to sting him, and then when the scorpion does the frog ass. Why, why, we'll both drown now. And the scorpion says, it's my nature. There is something fundamentally American about you, Jim Acosta, and something that is deeply ingrained in the American conscience, which is this idea, this, this idea of the binary, the black hat and the white hat, good and bad. This is, this is the, this is the Michael Cohen. Right?

[Jim Acosta]

That's right.

[Steve Schmidt]

Right. That Michael Cohen, bad. Michael Cohen, good. Now he's against this and he's, and the whole, the whole deal. They're all bad. They're all bad.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah.

[Steve Schmidt]

And I, I've said this before. I want to, I want to put a stamp on it today. Right. Make this date the official prediction. Tucker Carlson's running for president.

[Jim Acosta]

Yes.

[Steve Schmidt]

By the time we get to another year of this, MAGA is going to be discredited. And what's going to be discredited? Is it the racism? Is it the bigotry, the insanity, the extremism, the lust for power? No, what's going to be discredited is none of the animating Bigotries of MAGA in the eyes of the Tucker Carlson's, it's Trump. That Trump was an ineffective leader. He was, as it turned out, a weak, elderly, obese and crazy furor with cankles. We need a younger, smarter guy who really believes this stuff like Tucker Carlson. And you are seeing, and this plays out the beginning of the campaign is the Mike Huckabee interview.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah.

[Steve Schmidt]

And that breach is, is not a reparable one. And so, so Megyn Kelly's in show business. But, but Megan Kelly can look at Tucker Carlson and, and have the delusion. Well, I can be Secretary of State.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah.

[Steve Schmidt]

I could be.

[Jim Acosta]

She's angling for vice President.

[Steve Schmidt]

I think I could be vice president. And, and so MAGA entertainment sphere, you look at Tucker Carlson's reaction to it, which is, which is brilliant. I have to, I have to give it to him. And, and you know how much better at politics Tucker Carlson is than J.D. vance and Tucker Carlson, Because Trump, after all of that, what's Tucker Carlson's response? It's I love you, Trump. I love you. I love you. I'm just worried about you. Right. Like, yeah, it's truly amazing.

[Jim Acosta]

It is. No, it's true.

[Steve Schmidt]

He is a wonderfully gifted demagogue.

[Jim Acosta]

He is. No, and that's, that's going to be the, the issue for the remnants of MAGA is that Trump was not a competent fascist and Tucker Carlson is, would be a more youthful and I suppose, more competent fascist for the America first movement to get behind whatever they decide to call it next. And, but you know, Megan Kelly is a little different in that she was, I guess, furious over Trump threatening to wipe out the Iranian civil. And, you know, she was losing her shit over that and saying, why can't he sound like a normal president? And I just want to say to Megyn Kelly, first of all, I told you so. But second of all, you know, we heard this during the 2016 campaign when Trump talked about blood coming out of her wherever. And you know, I would. And then by the time we get to the 2024 campaign, Megyn Kelly is out on the campaign trail for Donald Trump.

[Steve Schmidt]

It's like Patty Hearst.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah. It's Stockholm syndrome. And it just, it ends this way. And I'm so glad you brought up Michael. It ends this way for all of them. Rudy Giuliani, Steve Bannon, you know, there is no bus that has had as many people thrown under it as the Trump bus. It is, it is absolutely always the case. And they never and nobody ever learns. And it's like, I mean, at least I will give Donald Trump some credit. The other day he said, I like to surround myself with losers and he doesn't want to be around winners. And it seems to me that, you know, that is Donald Trump as close as he can to telling the truth. And I just, you know, it shocks me for the life of. And the other thing too. We should show the truth. Social post again, for anybody who has any doubt left. How are, how is this the rambling of a sane person at the very end? The United States is now the hottest country anywhere. Nobody's, nobody says that he's. This is all insanity.

[Steve Schmidt]

I think, I think with all of this stuff, right. You know, especially for our kids. Right. You know, there's a record of everything.

[Jim Acosta]

Yes.

[Steve Schmidt]

Thank God we said and, and thought about in, in this era, certainly. And you know, our grandkids or great grandkids can all go look at it. I'll go look at it someday. We, we write about this every day. We talk about it every day. I, I think the thing in this moment for posterity to, to put a nail on that will, that will be tough to convey down the line when we're outside the moment of intense lived memory is the degree of, to which. This is the age of the whack job. The unrestrained whack job is that across the board in Maga, the rise of people that universally. 100% of everybody would have looked at that person and identified them not as a conservative, not as a this, not as a. That said, well, what about, well, he's a whack job. And now that person, a Pete Hegseth, a Jeanine Pirro, whatever whack job you may want to point the finger at now, is trying to lock up political opponents, is trying to wage war in Jesus name. And the damage the whack jobs have done to institutions, some of which in the case of the military, the army, the Navy, the Marine Corps are older than the country itself. The animating issue in the next presidential primary process, like what's the election going to be about? Right? The election is going to be about cleaning, cleaning this up. And point with Pete Buttigieg there. I mean, it's just, you just see it so rarely, right. Where you even have an opportunity to engage one of these people. I mean, I think I'm jealous. I would love an opportunity to debate that guy.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah.

[Steve Schmidt]

To be able to have a convert like what, what's he talking about? Right?

[Jim Acosta]

Trump.

[Steve Schmidt]

Trump declared a war, started a war, right? To take to, to get hold of the uranium which he already said he obliterated. The Iranians now possess the Strait of Hormuz. He shocked the entire. And we're winning. We're winning. I mean, what, what a fool.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah.

[Steve Schmidt]

And, and, and that he goes out on television and says it, looks into the camera and says it.

[Ronan Farrow]

What a, what a, what a fool.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah. No question about it. And, and the, the fools are the folks who are still clinging to this guy, it seems to me. And, you know, I, I suppose he's going to make losers and suckers out of more folks to come. I, I guess for the folks who are still clinging to what's left of Maga. But Steve Schmidt, as always, my man, thank you so much. Thank you so much for another.

[Steve Schmidt]

Holy shit. Have a great weekend.

[Jim Acosta]

You too, my man. Thank you. We'll do it again soon.

[Steve Schmidt]

You got it.

[Jim Acosta]

Thanks a lot. And, you know, for as many folks who worry about Donald Trump blowing up the world and yes, we all had that concern earlier this week. There's no question about it. When he was threatening to wipe out civilization, you know, or a civilization, I was worried about all civilization, and I think you were, too. But the other thing that, you know, I think is an existential threat, and it's becoming more clear to be an existential threat. Maybe it'll be more so in the years to come, but it sure is starting to look like one right now is artificial intelligence. I'll say that I'm concerned about it. I don't think I'm the only one. But a very respected journalist, an amazing journalist, has just written, I think, what is the signature piece of the moment when it comes to artificial intelligence and the concerns about it. And that is the wonderful Ronan Farrow of the New Yorker. Let's bring him in. There's Ronan, right? Hey, Ronan, Great to see you again. It's been too long.

[Ronan Farrow]

Yeah, it has been too long. Congratulations on the show. You've been doing great work.

[Jim Acosta]

Oh, thank you, man. I appreciate it. I'm just doing my thing. But you are definitely doing your thing and I'm singing your praises. So I hope I'm not embarrassing you too much, but this is a terrific piece that you and Andrew Morantz wrote for the New Yorker about Sam Altman. And Andrew wrote that great book Antisocial. I'm a big fan of his, too. But Ronan, walk us through this. And I, I do want to read, and I didn't clip this out and send this to my team, but I do want to read the first paragraph if I can And I'm going to probably get some words wrong here and names wrong, but it says in the fall of 2023, Ilya Sutskever, OpenAI's chief scientist, sent secret members to three fellow members of the organization's board of directors. For weeks they've been having furtive discussions about whether Sam Altman, OpenAI CEO, and Greg Brockman, his second in command, were fit to run the company. Sutzkever had once counted both men as friends. In 2019, he'd officiated Brockman's wedding and a ceremony at OpenAI's offices that included a ring beare in the form of a robotic hand. That's kind of amazing. But as he grew convinced that the company was nearing its long term goal, creating an artificial intelligence that could rival or surpass the cognitive abilities of human beings, his doubts about Altman increased. As Sutzkever put it to another board member at the time, I don't think Sam is the right guy or is the guy who should have his finger on the button. Ronan, amazing work. And I guess how did you. I can't ask for all of your secrets here, but how did you go about developing this, such a three dimensional, you know, multi dimensional picture of this very mysterious figure who is at the top of a various mysterious technology right now?

[Ronan Farrow]

Well, first of all, I came at it from a big picture standpoint. I had just come off of a long body of reporting about Elon Musk, which came to a head at a time when people weren't talking explicitly about some of the warning signs that people now acknowledge around Musk and where his power was really becoming supra governmental. You know, I broke some news about his through his Starlink business control of battlefield tactics in Ukraine and the kind of power ness of defense officials to contend with that, that basically you had an unaccountable private mogul just subjecting geopolitics to his whims. And so the bigger picture of Silicon Valley assuming control of the levers of power in America and the hollowing of political systems that could counterbalance that was something that felt increasingly important to me. And it was apparent to me in talking to Elon. And this, you know, requires no special genius, obviously that AI was the next frontier of that challenge of power imbalance in America. Sam Altman was on the record in that story. And it's actually a few people have picked up on the parallel and mostly I'm not having, you know, long form conversations about the origin of the story like this. So it hasn't come up in that many interviews this week, Sam Altman said of Elon, and I'm only lightly paraphrasing here, you know, Elon Musk wants to save humanity, but only if he can be the one to save humanity. And Sam likes to say a lot, that every accusation is a confession. And, you know, you can read the piece and judge whether there is also, obviously two very different individuals in many consequential ways, but you can judge whether there is also a whiff of that same dynamic with Sam. One thing is for sure, the very people who are building AI and now in full acceleration mode with AI, just we've got to win the we being whichever company you're talking to.

[Jim Acosta]

Right.

[Ronan Farrow]

And sidelining safety in the process. In the view of many critics and many of the actual underlying technical folks we talked to in this piece, you know, we carry essentially whistleblower emails in this piece from, from OpenAI researchers to the board, which we can talk about. But as they're doing that, as they're accelerating, as they're allegedly sidelining safety in meaningful ways, the risks that they warned about, you know, these are, in many cases, OpenAI included companies that were founded explicitly to focus on safety. OpenAI started as a nonprofit focused on safety. Those risks have not gone away. And so you have this combination of a kind of runaway train of acceleration, safety risks that are more real than ever, and we can talk about some of the specific ones, and a political and regulatory backdrop that really does not place meaningful guardrails on these companies and individuals.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah. And I mean, it's almost like the way you describe it, it sounds like there's sort of a space race going on in AI and instead of countries competing with one another, you have large corporations that aren't accountable to anybody, and they work behind the scenes and, you know, cloaked in secrecy, corporate secrecy. And the public has no, you know, window into what's going on. And Washington, my sense of it from in D.C. is that the, the lawmakers and government, they're just so far behind in understanding the potential and what the risks are that they just have no idea. They kind of have no idea what they're doing in terms of regulating this. And that that's what makes your, the picture you paint so concerning, because it sounds as though from what you've gathered from documents and talking to people confidentially, is that people do not have a lot of confidence in Sam Altman. And it makes you wonder who else is minding the story of these other companies and what they're made of. I Mean, that's what I'm concerned about.

[Ronan Farrow]

And you kind of. You land on an important broadening point there.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah.

[Ronan Farrow]

You know, you look at the story of Anthropic, which we, we talk about how it was founded, that there were senior OpenAI people who did not trust Sam Altman with that safety mission that the company was founded on, felt like he was a danger to the world through the development of this technology, and went out and founded their own shop that was supposed to address that problem. Right. It was supposed. They're supposed to be the safety guys and they still hold themselves out that way. And look, they're. They're two different companies with two different sets of commitment. And we document ways in which Anthropic does have a substantive safety focus to this day that is distinct. But you also really see the shrinking space, even for them to stand by those convictions. You know, where there's a standoff with the Pentagon and they're trying to ensure that their technology isn't used for autonomous weapons and mass surveillance. And, you know, they really are just not able to achieve that. They get forced out of the process and OpenAI steps in, in their stead, essentially, and they suffer a lot of deleterious business consequences as a result. So there's just. And they've watered down, by the way of, on their own accord, some of their core safety commitments at Anthropic. So, so that's point number one, that the thing to worry about is there is a wider race to the bottom being alleged here that I think is worth a serious, serious look. That the fact that Sam Altman is a particularly acute example of concerns about untrustworthiness in this business makes him both a useful window through which to view those wider concerns and also worthy of specific focus. Right. Because OpenAI is still the market leader. They were in many meaningful ways a first mover. And in the view of a lot of people building this technology, OpenAI has and continues to set the standards in what may be, in some of those critics view, a race to the bottom. So, yes, Sam Altman is an extreme example, and yes, I think he deserves particular focus. But also he is integrally tied to the behavior of these other companies, which affects all of us a lot.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah, no question. I mean, I'm just seeing a story this morning, cnbc, saying that the Fed Chairman, Jerome Powell, and the Treasury Secretary, Secretary Scott Bessant, met with major bank CEOs this week to discuss the possible cyber risk raised by Anthropic's Mythos model. Maybe I'm saying that wrong and that, I mean, these bank CEOs were brought to Washington to talk about this and I guess there were concerns about, you know, whether or not the banks would be somehow at risk because of this technology. And I mean, that, that made me worry this morning, like, oh my God, could we have a financial crisis because of AI? I mean, that, that freaked me out, that scary thought. But there's so many scary thoughts to have that you can't just focus on one these days.

[Ronan Farrow]

But, but it's worth coupling that, Jim, too, with the fact that Anthropic in recent weeks has had, you know, really meaningful leaps. I mean, they had a recent, like a full source code leak due to human error supposedly. But it just reinforces the point, right, that this question that that colleague of Altman's posed about who should have their finger on the button.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah.

[Ronan Farrow]

The answer is maybe none of these guys without meaningful, more meaningful than we have now oversight. You know, these are all fallible individuals, fallible companies with an acute profit motive that at times, as we document in the piece, really seems to be superseding their professed safety commitments. And as you point out, it is a dizzying number of safety concerns. It's not just the kind of Terminator Skynet scenario of an AI gets super advanced and falls out of alignment with human values and decides it's most efficient to eliminate humans. There are credible scientists who think we should be worried about that, to be clear. But you don't have to buy into that. You know, there's the things that are happening right now. It's the way this technology is being used on battlefields, it's the way in which data centers are being built in, you know, the uae, a Middle Eastern autocracy where there are real national security concerns about UAE leaking technology to China and where there are concerns about a dictatorship seizing control of advanced AI and using it in ways that are also not aligned with, for instance, American interests. There are the economic exposure risks, the millions of jobs that essentially every credible economic projection now holds will be eliminated by this technology or at least exposed to disruption that's significant. There's the concerns about an economic bubble because you have essentially right now the entire American economy propped up on a small number of heavily leveraged tech companies that are going all in on AI and an array of what economists and groups, critics in, in our body of reporting described as circular deals. Right? It's I scratch your back, you scratch mine, we're getting your money, you're borrowing money from another partner. We're promising to buy each other's products. There are grave, grave concerns and we're not even getting to, you know, the way in which this is already being deployed for political disinformation to influence elections. The way in which there are now an array of wrongful death suits against OpenAI alleging that ChatGPT has catalyzed numerous suicides, maybe even a murder.

[Jim Acosta]

On and on it goes on and on.

[Ronan Farrow]

And I, and I emerged from the reporting thinking, you know, the Silicon Valley contingent, the investors who now sort of poo poo, the safetyists, right? There was a moment when Sam Altman could be fired as he was a couple of years ago in the United States, started reading for being untrustworthy with, with safeguarding humanity from AI, for lying too much and therefore not being the guy who should have his finger on the button. That was the allegation. That moment seems to have passed. You know, it seems pretty unthinkable that an executive at one of these companies could be removed for a lack of trustworthiness in the context of these elevated needs for integrity because of the dangers of this tech. It's become business as usual. And you know, the business that pervades Silicon Valley is a lot of hype and a lot of making conflicting promises to different people in the name of growth.

[Jim Acosta]

So I guess this is the question that I have, is so Sam Altman a bad guy?

[Ronan Farrow]

I truly, and maybe, you know, people find this hard to believe, but do not think in those terms, okay? Story like this, I don't even think in those terms when I work on a story.

[Jim Acosta]

I would say Elon Musk is not a great guy. I think that you could probably that that'll be me. That's me saying that I don't think

[Steve Schmidt]

he's a great guy.

[Ronan Farrow]

When I'm reporting on someone even, even if you take an extreme example, you know, someone who is accused of like credibly of really serious serial violent crime and where I'm working on a story, as I have on some occasions, where there's an extra moral imperative because it seems like people will get hurt in a very non abstract way if it doesn't, the facts don't come out. Even in those cases. I really don't approach a subject of that kind of reporting in that reductive frame of like, this is a monster, this is a bad guy. Actually, the contrary, I feel like the tougher the criticism I'm excavating, the more the burden is on me to be sincerely humanistic. So the process with Sam Altman was Not me concluding he's a bad guy. I was hearing all these people in Silicon Valley saying he's a bad guy. And you know, multiple people, some of whom are in this piece quoted saying, you know, he's a sociopath, he's a scammer, he's a pathological liar. It was my job to fairly interrogate those critiques and to line up the facts so readers could judge for themselves. But it was also my job to listen deeply to Sam and find what empathy I could and understanding I could as deeply as possible.

[Jim Acosta]

Because he kind of, he kind of acknowledges there he has some character flaws which I thought was interesting.

[Ronan Farrow]

I think to Sam's credit, you know, he did engage a lot. I think the reader can also be the judge of how sincere that was or how self reflective that was. There are moments where you talk to Sam Altman about where this trait comes from or what formed his personality in general, and there is a little bit of a sort of glib west coast pop therapy set of attitudes about it that seem to not indicate the kind of deep, bracing self confrontation that I think I would perhaps be doing if so many people around me were accusing me of being a pathological liar. But he did spend a lot of time talking about this, you know, some of it contentious conversations. As you can imagine, in a piece like this, it's heavily pressurized. There's many, many hours of contentious calls as well. It's not like a fun process in the end game. But I do always appreciate someone who engages like that. And I did sincerely shape the piece in ways that were maximally generous, even to him. A big piece like this, there's a lot of stuff that doesn't make it into the final cut and a lot of discretionary editorial decisions. And there were times where, you know, I was really listening. And even if something was true, if Sam made an argument I actually think could had some merit, that something could be true, but maybe sensationalist. There were times where I took those things out. So, yeah, quite the contrary to coming to a clear bad guy conclusion. But I do think it's important how many people close to him and entwined with his work do come to that conclusion. And firm.

[Jim Acosta]

And again, not to ask the simpleton question, but I'm going to ask the simpleton question. Are you concerned about AI and does it pose an existential threat? Are we there yet? Is it, is it hysterical to think that way that we're there now, or is it the potential that we'll be there in five to 10 years? From now. I mean, can AI at this point, I mean, and this may be asking more than what you're reporting uncovered or do we have a Skynet capability at this. It seems to me we're not quite there yet. But I mean. Your thoughts?

[Ronan Farrow]

Well, so the timeline question is, is one question and if you talk to some of the most credible technologists, which Sam Altman is not, right, he's a businessman, he's not deeply involved in the tech there are.

[Jim Acosta]

Because I, I use Chat GPT and I'll say, hey, ChatGPT, I almost use it like Google, which may be the, the Gen Xer in me. Perhaps I could be using it a bit more imaginatively. But I, you know, occasionally it doesn't really spit out very useful information or I get to the maximum number of times that I can use it and it says you need give us some money and we'll tell you more. I just, I wonder, is this technology really there yet? I'm sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off.

[Ronan Farrow]

A number of these, the technologists that are most trustworthy I think in the field do say that on the timeline question, both Sam Altman's kind of utopian promises, right, because this is one dimension of the hype machine around AI and OpenAI specifically, Sam Altman is out there saying we're on the verge of, and I'm really barely paraphrasing his own statements and blog posts here, curing all forms of cancer, going to other planets, you know, wow, it's going to be like universal basic income for everyone and people are not going to have to work anymore. When you ask him about serious concerns about labor disruption, often there there's a bit of a hand wave of like, well, you know, Chat GPT is going to empower everyone to make startups and like that's it's all going to be fine. And the again, credible actual computer scientists that we spoke to in many cases said those promises where he's saying we've already, you know, reached the event horizon and this is all, you know, almost underway right as this, this piece was coming out the day that we published this piece and OpenAI knew that it was coming on this day. They just, they launched an array of announcements that were like directly on the subjects in the piece, you know, clearly filling space in the conversation with more sort of utopian promises to counterbalance. So, so there's credible people who know the science who say that is way farther out than Altman is promising. I mean this is a guy who we report in the piece was telling Biden administration officials at the beginning of that administration, well, by 2026, you know, the entire country is essentially going to be powered by nuclear fusion and there's going to be fusion plants all over the country. And this is the Elon story too, right? It's right. Every year for a decade, it's like we're going to be on Mars in five minutes. We're going to have self driving cars that are flying, flawless and perfect. The technology is much slower than the hype. And this, I think it goes for the downsides too. You know, I don't think that we are AI integrated enough to be fully exposed to a Skynet scenario yet. I do think many of the other risks have already arrived. Right? The political disinformation risks, the economic exposure risks, the economic bubble risks, the ways in which, you know, chemical weapons can be identified much more readily. Like this is all here. Now there's already an instance where it appears that a drone went rogue and fired without human oversight. This was documented in a, in a UN report several years ago. So some of the risks are here. Enough of the risks are here that I think it is a combustible and worrying situation that we simultaneously have this political backdrop post Citizens United, where big tech has taken over Washington, right. Has flooded politics with money. And if you're running for office now in this country or you're running for reelection, you're contending with the major center of gravity being Silicon Valley and big tech money and AI money specifically. Now we write about how Sam Altman's co founder and second in command, Greg Altman, sorry, Greg Brockman is a major contributor to a couple of PACs that are, you know, anti regulation, pro Trump. So that's, that's the pattern. There's not a lot of strength in the legislative branch right now to keep an eye. And I think the point of this is this is technology that gravely needs an eye on it.

[Jim Acosta]

Well, Ronan, I mean, you've done an amazing job here as always. And you know, I think next, maybe you should be assigned to the betting markets. Maybe you'll assign yourself to the betting markets because I think that.

[Ronan Farrow]

Yeah.

[Jim Acosta]

So I mean that if you, if you like the tech beat, that's not a bad place to turn next. But I mean the, what you've done here I think has gotten the conversation started that we need like good people at the top of these companies or at least moderately good people at the top of these companies who can be relied upon as, as all of this advances over the Next decade. I mean, you can't have, you know, pathological liars running technologies. I mean, I'm not saying that he is, but that's how he's been described. That could blow up our economy or blow up, you know, something even more severe than that. But really amazing work. And the illustrator, I don't know who does the illustrations. We were showing this earlier. This has been blowing my mind looking at this. This is like a thing I can't stop looking at. I have to go back and look at it now and then, which is doing wonderful, I'm sure, for your. Your reporting.

[Ronan Farrow]

Such a great animation internally about the art. That was okay.

[Jim Acosta]

It's great.

[Ronan Farrow]

Where, where, you know, I said, hey, do we really want to go all in on the irony of AI art for this particular piece? And it's an artist named Dave Zotter who has a following and is a real, you know, legit artist. He's. He's multidisciplinary and he doesn't just work with AI. And in the end, you know, the group consensus was no, the irony really works. That is explicitly AI. And actually the revision conversations about the art were all about, can we make sure it is absolutely explicit that it's AI so people don't. This is just like pulling a fast one out or replacing an artist through his starlink business. It was still employing an artist for anyone.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah, shout out to him too. Ronan, thank you so much. Really amazing work. And I hope we can. I hope I haven't annoyed you so much that you won't do this again when you do. Expose the betting markets anytime.

[Ronan Farrow]

Thank you for, you know, spreading the word. It's a challenging time for investigative reporting too. There's very few places to provide the same dynamics we talked about with politics also hold true for media. More and more firms are consolidated in the hands of tech moguls and private companies with their own interests. And so I think it's incumbent on all of us, hopefully everyone listening will, you know, care about directing people to actually, like, go to the new yorker.com to look at this piece. Subscribe. If you believe in this kind of reporting, subscribe not just to the New Yorker, but wherever you see this kind of careful accountability journalism happening. You know, maybe that's ProPublica, you know, you decide for yourself. Yes, support it directly because we all need to join arms and make sure we still have access to high quality information and that voters have this to high quality information.

[Jim Acosta]

And that's one of my missions here on this show, is to elevate as many investigative journalists as possible. So anytime I can help, please let me know. And just incredible job. Thank you so much. Ronan Farrow with the New Yorker. Check out the issue and go subscribe. I'm going to do it as soon as the show is over. That's a promise I'm gonna do. You can have your people check the records. I'm doing it after the show is over. So thank you, Ronan.

[Ronan Farrow]

Thank you.

[Jim Acosta]

All right. Good to see you, bud. Thanks so much. And speaking of technology, and I mentioned the space race, I can't let you go without, look, I, we cobbled together some of the most amazing pictures that NASA's been putting out during the Artemis mission over the last week or so. I've been on a total geek fest, geeking out over these pictures of the moon that Artemis has been sending back. And they've just been absolutely beautiful. The four astronauts who flew around the moon on NAS NASA's Artemis 2 mission are nearly home. This is according to NBC. But one of the most dangerous and nerve wracking parts of the mission is still ahead. Astronauts Reed Wiseman, Christina Koch, Victor Glover and the Canadian astronaut Jeremy Hansen, they're set to return. They may be on the ground by the time you watch this podcast. But if you're seeing it live right now, they haven't quite made it home just yet. But the images have been stunning. The video inside the capsule has been stunning. And they've just done amazing work. The images, some of the images of the moon that they've beamed back have just been extraordinary. And people have been talking about this non stop. And whether you're on the right side of things or left side of things or the pro democracy side, I mean, I don't care if you're not on the pro democracy side, but it's, this is really kind of a rally around the human potential kind of moment. And so I just want to take my hat off to the Artemis folks. And I'm hoping to have Kristen Fisher, the space correspondent on next week to talk about how important this has been. But NASA has just hit it out of the park on this one with everything that they've accomplished and just Godspeed and hoping for a safe voyage home to those brave astronauts. And some of these, look at these images of the moon, just absolutely breathtaking. And images of the Earth from the other side of the moon have been extraordinary. And you know, these are, these are actual images sent back by Artemis. And so it's, it's just been amazing to watch. And it just reminds you that we are capable of doing great harm to ourselves, but we're also capable of doing amazing things. And I, one final thing before I go, if you can just indulge me for just a moment. I have to go back to, to maybe. And again, we, we got to a very lofty point there, talking about the human potential in the moon there. But we have to go back and talk about Donald Trump. Yes. One last time before we go. One last time. And his true social post, lashing out at Megan Kelly and Tucker Carlson and Candace, what's her name, Candace Owens and Alex Jones. You know, Trump is going after them because they've been critical of him and the war in Iran and so on. And he calls them low IQ and, and compares them to, you know, the failing New York Times and fake news cnn. And oh, my goodness, they're so bad. They're so, you know, he says Megyn Kelly, who nastily asked me the now famous only Rosie o' Donnell question, or crazy Candace Owens, who accuses the highly respected first lady of France of being a man. I mean, he just goes into the gutter. It's over 400 words. I mean, this to me is, is the picture of insanity. This is an image of insanity. But my, my question to Tucker Carlson and Megyn Kelly and Candace Owens and not Alex Jones, because, you know, I mean, Alex does. What's going on in that head? I have no idea. But to the other three, what did you expect? What did you think was going to happen? And I just want to say, I just want to take a moment to say, I told you so. Tucker Carlson used to come after me when he was over at Fox and accused me of Trump Derangement syndrome. And Megyn Kelly would say, Jim Acosta has tds. He has Trump Derangement syndrome. Well, who has the Trump Derangement syndrome now? Tucker Carlson, Megyn Kelly, Candace Owens, Alex Jones, who is suffering from the tds. Now, all I can say is welcome to the fucking show. Welcome to the party, pals. And, you know, when I was talking with Steve Schmidt earlier and he was, you know, telling the story of the frog and the scorpion and the frog is crossing the river and why, you know, asking the scorpion why he stung him and they both drowned. And scorpion says, it's in my nature. Don't forget, please don't forget that Donald Trump from time to time out on the campaign trail, likes to tell the story of the snake. He tells the story of the snake. It's a xenophobic, racist parable that is that Donald Trump tells to his audiences because he likes to go off on immigrants and, you know, people, my family and others. But he likes to talk about how the. The poor woman who brings the snake home takes care of the snake. The snake is sick, and she nurses him back to health. And then the. The snake bites the woman and she dies. But before she dies, she says, snake, I took. I took care of you. I took you in. I nursed you back to health. Why did you bite me? And as Donald Trump tell. I know the story so well because I've heard it a thousand times, and so is my producer, Matt, who's helming the show. And the snake says to the lady, you knew I was a snake the day you took me in. And I just have to say to Tucker Carlson and Megyn Kelly and Candace. What is her name? Candace Owens and Alex Jones, you knew he was a snake the day you took him in. You knew he was a snake the day you took him in. And maybe they don't care anymore. Maybe they're laughing all the way to the bank, and maybe this is all performative. And next week, Megyn Kelly will be kissing his ass again, and she probably will. She probably will be kissing his ass, and Tucker Carlson will run for president, and he'll have Donald Trump out on the campaign trail, and they'll all laugh behind the scenes as to how they manipulate their audiences and make a lot of money. But if for just a brief moment right now, any of these goofballs who have been peddling Donald Trump's bullshit all these years, if for a moment, they are now looking at themselves in the mirror and saying, why, oh, why? Why, oh, why did I take after Donald Trump? Why, oh, why did I carry his water? Why, oh, why did I become such a MAGA Trump supporter? Serve me up another glass of Kool Aid. Welcome to Jonestown. Kind of cultist leader, deacon in the church of Donald Trump. Why, oh, why did I do that? And all I have to say is, you knew he was a snake the day you let him in. You knew he was a snake the day you took him in. It's amazing how that story of the snake is just coming right back around again and biting Tucker and Megan and Candace and Alex and everybody else in maga. Right in the ass, right in the old butt cheeks. And to me, it's a tale that I've witnessed and watched and reported on time and again. Michael Cohen, Rudy Giuliani, Steve Bannon, you know, Mike Pence. Mike Pence. Poor old Mike Pence carried Trump's water for all those years, you know, would go around. They'd have those cabinet meetings in the first term, and they'd go around and Mike Pence would just pucker up and smooch Donald Trump's butt. And then on January 6th, they're talking about hanging, hanging Mike Pence. And it just goes to show you that Donald Trump has been telling you exactly who he is his entire life. He's been telling you exactly who he is since the moment he ran for president. When he tells that story of the stake, he's talking about himself. When he tells that story of the stake. Everybody in maga, everybody, every podcaster, everybody in the manosphere who supports Donald Trump, you need to understand Donald Trump is telling you exactly who he is. He's telling you the story of the snake to warn you, to arm you with the information so you understand that he is a snake when you take him in, that he is a snake when you join his cult, that you are taking in a snake, you are letting a snake into your lives and he will bite you in the end. My thanks to Steve Schmidt. My thanks to Ronan Farrow. Great story in the New Yorker. Check it out on Sam Altman and the dangers of artificial intelligence. Terrific reporting piece in the New Yorker. If you have a chance to subscribe, do that, please, because it's terrific reporting that they do there. And please, if I may, if I may ask you to subscribe to this program here at the end of this, this great week, anytime you support this program by not just joining the conversation, but liking, subscribing, sharing this content, you're helping this program. You're helping guys like me. You're helping my team, Matt and Sam and Ali, continue to bring this kind of journalism to you each and every day, each and every week. Whether you're watching on Substack and contributing to the cause, thank you. Or on YouTube and contributing to the cause, thank you. On Apple Podcasts, some of you have been wondering lately how come the shows haven't been showing up on Apple podcasts. I think we've figured that out and you can listen to it there as well. But anytime you support this program, it means the world to me and it means the world to our entire team. So thank you. For those of you who are doing it, thank you so much. But in the meantime, still reporting, this time from the lovely town of Charlottesville, Virginia, I'm Jim Acosta. I'll see you next time.