JOYCE VANCE, GLENN KIRSCHNER AND MIKE FANONE

Summary

The Jim Acosta Show: “JOYCE VANCE, GLENN KIRSCHNER AND MIKE FANONE”

Date: February 10, 2026
Host: Jim Acosta
Guests: Joyce Vance, Glenn Kirschner, Mike Fanone

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Episode Overview

This episode of The Jim Acosta Show dives into the expanding “Epstein Gate” scandal, focusing on newly revealed connections between high-profile figures—including members of the Trump administration—and Jeffrey Epstein. Jim Acosta discusses recent legal developments, the role of the Justice Department, the failures of accountability in the U.S. versus elsewhere, as well as abuses in the U.S. immigration detention system. Legal experts Joyce Vance and Glenn Kirschner and former police officer Mike Fanone provide sharp, sometimes blunt analysis, and fresh reporting.

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Main Themes

• The mushrooming “Epstein Gate” scandal and its implications for democracy, justice, and political accountability.
• The legal strategies and maneuvers around Ghislaine Maxwell and other figures implicated in the Epstein files.
• Severe deficiencies of institutional accountability compared to other democratic countries.
• The Justice Department’s handling of high-profile cases and alleged weaponization.
• Human rights abuses in current U.S. immigration detention.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Ghislaine Maxwell’s Fifth Amendment Plea and Clemency Gambit

[00:00 – 04:02]

• Maxwell’s Testimony: Recently, Ghislaine Maxwell invoked the Fifth Amendment (01:12), offering to exonerate both Trump and Clinton in exchange for a presidential pardon.

• Legal Take (Joyce Vance): Joyce walks through Maxwell’s failed appeals and habeas petition, calling her legal arguments meritless and the clemency offer a transparent attempt to barter her knowledge for freedom:

  “She views the truth as transactional… We’re increasingly seeing documents in the Epstein files that do nothing other than corroborate her criminality.” — Joyce Vance [03:38]

• Acosta’s Reaction: Jim and Joyce agree the offer is a brazen quid pro quo that no one should accept.

2. Congressional Review of Unredacted Epstein Files

[04:02 – 10:07]

• Stunning Reactions: Members of Congress, across party lines, are shocked by what they’ve seen in unredacted files (e.g., Ro Khanna, Thomas Massie).

• Failure of Prosecution: Both Joyce and Jim highlight DOJ’s failure to meaningfully investigate—to the detriment of survivors:

  “There should be investigation going on in this moment. And the fact that there is not, that's the real travesty of justice here.” — Joyce Vance [05:21]

• Transparency Act Violations: DOJ is withholding ~3 million documents in violation of the Epstein Files Transparency Act.

  “All of those documents need to be released… Those redactions are being done by Donald Trump’s Justice Department.” — Joyce Vance [10:07]

3. Trump, Lutnick, and Shifting Narratives

[11:28 – 15:01]

• Howard Lutnick’s Testimony: Commerce Secretary Lutnick confessed to lying about terminating contact with Epstein after 2005—he visited Epstein’s island with family in 2012.
• Bad Judgment & Hypocrisy:

  “I can’t imagine taking my four kids on a vacation to Epstein island… If Donald Trump does not fire Lutnick as a result, we can draw the logical conclusion… that Donald Trump is not affronted by this sort of thing unless it’s Democrats.” — Joyce Vance [13:54]

4. The Permeation of Scandal Throughout the Administration

[15:01 – 18:20]

• Multiple Figures Implicated: Melanie Stansberry, among others, points to the sheer volume of prominent Trump associates implicated.
• Comparison to Global Accountability:

  “There are now at least nine or ten other countries… that have opened investigations or forced their leaders to step down because of their mere association with Jeffrey Epstein.” — Joyce Vance quoting Stansberry [15:36]

5. Legal Community Complicity and the Brad Karp/Paul Weiss Factor

[17:08 – 22:05]

• Big Law’s Capitulation: Acosta & Vance discuss how powerful law firms like Paul Weiss swiftly caved to Trump — possibly pressured by Epstein-related blackmail.

  “The question I would have for Brad Karp, if I was one of his partners, would be… the fact that you’re now mentioned in the Epstein files — did that have anything to do with the decision that you made early on to cave?” — Joyce Vance [20:18]

6. Bannon Case Dismissal and DOJ Precedent

[22:25 – 32:44]

• Justice Department Wipes Bannon’s Conviction: The DOJ dismisses the case against Steve Bannon (related to January 6th committee defiance) despite a jury conviction.

  “Subpoenas are optional, I guess, perhaps if you’re a friend… of Donald Trump.” — Glenn Kirschner [25:25]

• Pattern of Corruption: Panelists view this as yet another example of DOJ weaponization for friends, punishment for enemies.
• Bannon’s Continued Influence: Despite past convictions, Bannon remains influential, calling for ICE agents to “surround polling places” and pushing civil strife.

7. Opaque Detention, Calls for Transparency, and Potential for Accountability

[32:44 – 40:01]

• Congressional Cowardice and the Media: Mike Fanone calls for lawmakers to reveal withheld names on the House floor.

  “Let’s have a little bit of transparency and some accountability. And it’s clear that it’s not going to come from the administration.” — Mike Fanone [33:20]

• International Contrasts: Glenn Kirschner points to the UK police raiding Peter Mandelson’s properties while the U.S. DOJ does nothing. Both he and Acosta call the situation a “cover-up” [38:03].

  “Saying that this is the most massive cover up imaginable in our nation’s history…is just a gross understatement.” — Glenn Kirschner [36:49]

8. Acosta’s Personal Connection – Epstein Files Search

[38:47 – 39:49]

• File Search Oddity: Jim Acosta discovers his own name in the Epstein files due to an unrelated public interaction.

  “All you have to do is go into the goddamn screen search engine and plug in people’s names and their names will pop up in this thing.” — Jim Acosta [38:47]

• Trump Mentioned 38,000+ Times: Mike Fanone points out the scale of Trump’s name in the files, “the guy who barely knew Epstein…was Epstein’s best friend.”

9. Prospects for Accountability

[40:01 – 41:06]

• Future Uncertain: Acosta underscores that if accountability comes, it might be from voters, not prosecutors.

  “This is the case that could bring him down… MAGA is starting to crack… we can’t stop talking about this case.” — Jim Acosta [40:01]

10. Horrific Conditions in U.S. Immigration Detention

[41:06 – End]

• Testimony from Seamus Cullaton: An Irish legal immigrant describes ICE detention as “like a modern day concentration camp,” with filthy conditions, limited food, and constant fear [42:49].

  • “I've had barely any outside time, no fresh air, no sunshine…these are the stories that need to be told.” — Seamus Cullaton/Acosta [44:38]

• Acosta Calls Out Inaction: Congress and governors are failing; more oversight and inspections are needed.

  “Donald Trump is being allowed to run gulags and concentration camps in this country to warehouse immigrants. And it needs to stop.” — Jim Acosta [45:38]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “She views the truth as transactional… This is a woman who knows a lot… historically not had a good relationship with the truth.” — Joyce Vance [03:38]
• “These are the people that Donald Trump chooses to align with, to bring into his administration. And far too many of them seem to have an Epstein tarnish for it to be just sort of a casual coincidence.” — Joyce Vance [16:28]
• “Subpoenas are optional, I guess, perhaps if you’re a friend or maybe even a criminal associate of Donald Trump.” — Glenn Kirschner [25:25]
• “Let’s just have a little bit of transparency and some accountability… it's clear that it’s not going to come from the administration.” — Mike Fanone [33:20]
• “Saying that this is the most massive cover up imaginable in our nation’s history…is just a gross understatement.” — Glenn Kirschner [36:49]
• Testimony: “I've had barely any outside time, no fresh air, no sunshine... the conditions here are filthy… people have been killed by the security staff… it's a nightmare.” — Seamus Cullaton [42:49—44:38]
• “Donald Trump is being allowed to run gulags and concentration camps in this country to warehouse immigrants. And it needs to stop.” — Jim Acosta [45:38]

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Important Segment Timestamps

• 00:00 – 04:02: Ghislaine Maxwell’s Fifth Amendment plea and clemency gambit.
• 05:21 – 07:17: DOJ inaction and congressional ‘jaw-dropping’ reactions to unredacted files.
• 10:07 – 11:28: Epstein Files Transparency Act violations and DOJ redactions.
• 12:20 – 13:54: Howard Lutnick’s testimony and credibility in doubt.
• 15:36 – 16:28: Overview of administration officials implicated; lack of US accountability.
• 17:08 – 22:05: Discussion of Brad Karp, Paul Weiss, and legal community’s capitulation.
• 24:09 – 25:25: Dismissal of Steve Bannon’s conviction; legal precedent and political favoritism.
• 31:23 – 33:20: Bannon’s continued extremism and threats to democracy.
• 36:49 – 38:06: Comparison of global accountability vs. US cover-up.
• 42:49 – 44:38: Seamus Cullaton’s harrowing account of ICE detention.
• 44:38 – end: Acosta’s call for media vigilance and government accountability.

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Tone & Language

• The tone is urgent, indignant, often raw and unsparing (“sick fucks” [08:29], “cover up” [36:49]); the language is plainspoken, focused on moral clarity, accountability, and a refusal to look away from uncomfortable truths.
• Panelists and Jim Acosta repeatedly emphasize the importance of truth, transparency, and justice—regardless of political party.

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In Summary

This episode of The Jim Acosta Show delivers a sweeping, deeply critical analysis of the expanding Epstein scandal and the alarming inertia in the U.S. to pursue truth and justice, especially relative to other democratic countries. Institutions—especially the Department of Justice—are portrayed as politically compromised, while the scale and severity of alleged crimes (from Epstein’s abuse and cover-up to abuses of immigrant detainees) are treated as crises demanding immediate response. The episode ends with an urgent plea for ongoing scrutiny, oversight, and independent journalism, leaving listeners both unsettled and galvanized.

Transcript

[Jim Acosta]

Foreign. Welcome to the Jim Acosta show. And it's another day that ends in Y in the widening Epstein Gate scandal. The Commerce secretary, billionaire Howard Lutnick, just testified in front of a Senate committee where he acknowledged he had been to Jeffrey Epstein's island in 2012, seven years after he claimed he stopped associating with the pedophile. Let's discuss this mushrooming scandal with former federal prosecutor and substack star Joyce Fance. Joyce, great to see, as always, good to see you. And you know, Joyce, the other thing is, I mean, I think the video of seeing Ghislaine Maxwell invoking the fifth is another, I think, big moment in this Epstein Gates scandal, I guess. You know, I'm curious what you think when, what. What all of this means because, you know, she and her attorney said yesterday, oh, well, we'll go ahead and testify if you give her clemency. And let's play a little bit of that video and then we'll talk about on the other side. Just a brief. Ms. Maxwell, were you a close friend and confidant of Jeffrey Epstein?

[Joyce Vance]

I would like to answer your question, but on the advice of council, I respectfully decline to answer this question and any related questions. My habeas petition is pending in the Southern District of New York. I therefore invoke my right to silence under the Fifth Amendment to the U.S. constitution.

[Jim Acosta]

Joyce, what did you think of that moment?

[Joyce Vance]

Yeah, so many things, so many different threads to pull there. She, of course, goes on to say that she'll be delighted to really give the president Donald Trump and also former President Clinton a clean bill of health if only he will give her clemency and release her from prison. So that sort of speaks to the moment. But can I, you know, I always do this to you, Jim. Let me just be the nerdy former prosecutor for a minute and talk about legally, what's happening here. Jelaine Maxwell, convicted by a jury, sentenced to 20 years in federal prison. She takes a direct appeal. That's every criminal defendant's right. That appeal ends with a confirmation of her conviction. The Supreme Court declines to hear it. So she's now filed what's called a habeas petition. It's a collateral appeal. Frequently, criminal defendants will argue that their counsel was ineffective, that they didn't get adequate legal representation. That's not what Maxwell is doing here. She's raising a bunch of claims, and she argues that there's new evidence in her case. And I have read through her entire petition. I handled a lot of habus early on in My career at doj, this one is absolutely not meritorious. It will be dismissed. It's only a matter of time. Given that courts don't always move quickly, there will be some point in time where she will no longer have a Fifth Amendment privilege to assert. And I hope Congress will have her back that, that very minute. But it's telling to me that she didn't assert her Fifth Amendment right when the Deputy Attorney General, Todd Blanch came knocking at her door. Right. She was happy to talk then in exchange for better conditions and a transfer to a min minimum security facility. She's at fci, Brian, right now, which is not a facility that typically would house convicted sex offenders. And here she is trying again to leverage her position and the information that she has about powerful men into a get jail free card. For me, that's the big takeaway. This is a woman who knows a lot. She has historically not had a good experience or a good relationship with the truth. Right. She, she views the truth as transactional, something that she can use. And we're increasingly seeing documents in the Epstein files that do nothing other than corroborate her criminality.

[Jim Acosta]

Right. And, and I, you know, to me it just seems, I mean, it doesn't take a legal eagle to figure this out, what she's trying to do. She's trying to do a quid pro quo and her attorney put this out there that, well, if you allow her to basically exonerate Bill Clinton and Donald Trump, then sure, yeah, she'll sing like a canary, she'll do whatever you guys want. But I mean, if you look at, we're nowhere near, I think, giving her that kind of a deal, it seems to me, especially with all of this information that has been coming out. I mean, several of these members of Congress on the House Oversight Committee, they went over to the Justice Department and reviewed these unredacted versions of the Epstein files and Ro Khanna and Thomas Massie, the Democrat from California, Republican from Kentucky, they've been criticizing the Justice Department for their redactions. I guess Thomas Massie is talking about the identities of what he's calling the identities of six men in publicly released files saying they believe these men, one of them, a high ranking official of a foreign country, were implicated in sex trafficking charges. This is all in the New York Times today. Your thoughts on the fact that we have these members of Congress going over there and looking at these unredacted files and coming out with their jaws on the floor.

[Joyce Vance]

You know, it should be prosecutors. It should be prosecutors and agents Evaluating that evidence and investigating. There's no question that when Pam Bondi and Todd Blanch at the Justice Department say they've shut down investigation because there's nothing left to look at, that they're just dead wrong. I would never prejudge whether or not there's anyone against whom there's sufficient evidence to bring charges. And of course, there can be complicated legal questions involving the statute of limitations and. And other issues, but there should be investigation going on in this moment. And the fact that there is not, that's the real travesty of justice here. Because the survivors, they were brave. They came forward, they told their stories to law enforcement. They expected two things, confidentiality to the extent possible and justice in the form of court proceedings. And they got neither one of those things. This administration has done everything it can to protect the man who is the Justice Department's client in these times. Donald Trump, doj, the people's lawyer. That's the old rules. Right now, the Justice Department serves Donald Trump. And so I think that takes us back to this really astonishing offer that Jalaine Maxwell makes at the outset. Right. Give me clemency and I'll clear you. And had she only done that for Donald Trump, I think that there would have been an outroar. So she engages in this very interesting gambit of saying she'll climb clear. Bill Clinton, too. I think that that's based on the mistaken belief that Democrats, and especially women like me, care one whit about that. We don't. We want to see everyone who is complicit brought to accountability and justice. I don't care if it's the president or a businessman or an academic. I don't care if they're a Democrat or a Republican. Just want justice. And that's what the victims deserve.

[Jim Acosta]

Amen, Joyce. And I've been saying that on my show repeatedly. And I think a lot of Democrats are saying this, and I think even some Republicans are saying this is like, let the chips fall where they may. You know, I think that was totally transparent on Ghislaine Maxwell's part by saying, oh, well, if we can just tie this up with a bow and clear both Donald Trump and Bill Clinton, we can just make all of this go away. Nobody wants to take that deal. Nobody. People want the truth.

[Joyce Vance]

Except maybe Donald Trump. Right? And I mean, that's the fear here. There's been reporting about the potential that pardons are being issued in response for payment. What better payment, what better coin is there than getting the president out of trouble when it comes to Jeffrey Epstein.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah. And I will tell you, I mean, some of these lawmakers who are coming out, they're telling what they saw. There's a congresswoman from Vermont. She was stopped by a reporter in one of the hallways up on Capitol Hill, and she said that what she saw made her very concerned about what Donald Trump has been telling everybody about his association with Jeffrey Epstein. Let's play that and talk about that. To review any of the unredacted files over at the doj, The Epstein files. I did. You did?

[Joyce Vance]

Yeah, I just came from there.

[Jim Acosta]

What can you tell us?

[Joyce Vance]

There's a bunch of sick fucks.

[Jim Acosta]

And, I mean, anything more that we don't know, I feel like that's pretty well established.

[Joyce Vance]

I know. I think the part that is just so disgusting is that so many people. People knew.

[Jim Acosta]

Did he have any ties to any intelligence agencies?

[Mike Fanone]

We've established some in our reporting, but.

[Jim Acosta]

Wanted to know based on the fact.

[Joyce Vance]

I only had about a half hour, so I'm gonna go back again tomorrow. So mostly today, I was just trying to go through a couple documents that was particularly interested in finding out what were those. One was related to whether or not Trump, you know, had ever kicked Epstein out of Mar A Lago, as he claimed.

[Jim Acosta]

What'd you find?

[Joyce Vance]

That is not. It's not true. It's a lie.

[Jim Acosta]

I mean, Joyce, this is. This is the issue that's coming up with these files and the explanations that are coming out in these files. And it seems to me Donald Trump has some question. He has a lot of questions to answer. And his pattern of behavior through all of this has been to suppress this, keep it under lock and key, get dragged kicking and screaming into releasing these files, and then after there's a law that he signed dictating that all these files have to be released, that they held some of them back and had all these funny redactions everywhere. In many cases, just shameful redactions, protecting the abusers and not the abused. But your thoughts on. I mean, it seems to me this is a very big widening scandal for Donald Trump, and it's not going away anytime soon.

[Joyce Vance]

It's not, and it shouldn't. You know, you point to the fact that documents have been held back in violation of the Epstein Files Transparency Act. By DOJ's own admission, there are 3 million documents that they've just decided to not turn over. All of those documents need to be released, and beyond that, with the documents that are publicly available. And I spent some time this weekend reading what's publicly available. They're heavy redactions. So I'm fascinated to hear Congresswoman Blint come out and say that her reading has confirmed that Trump did not kick Epstein out of Mar a Lago. I have seen this morning a heavily redacted FBI 302. That's an FBI form recording an interview. And, and the. In. In this 302, it reports that Trump had actually called the local police department in Florida and had acknowledged in that call that Jeffrey Epstein was engaged in bad behavior and that he was pleased that the police were being alerted to it. All of this needs to be reviewed in its unredacted form. Right. I have no idea what was behind the heavy big black blocks that obscured what's obviously key information. Those redactions are being done by Donald Trump's Justice Department. Congress needs to stand up and insist that its law be enforced.

[Glenn Kirschner]

Right.

[Jim Acosta]

And. And Trump has had shifting explanations for his ending relationship with Jeffrey Epstein. He said that he kicked him out of his club for being a creep. And then at another point, I think this was last year, he said that, well, Epstein was stealing his employees, and so his explanations are shifting. He's not the only one. The Commerce Secretary, Howard Lutnick, once said that he stopped associating with Jeffrey Epstein back in 2005, but it turns out he had visited the island, the Epstein island, in 2012 with his family. I don't know why you would take your family to Epstein island after Jeffrey Epstein had been convicted in Florida on state charges. And in all of this, and let's listen to a little bit of Howard Lutnick getting grilled. I don't know how much longer he's going to be the Commerce Secretary. One would think not much longer. But this is how this went down.

[Mike Fanone]

Nick, I think you understand the root of concern here. It's the way you described very emphatically your first encounter with him in his apartment, said you were disgusted, would never have any contact with him again. Did you, in fact, make the visit to Jeffrey Epstein's private island?

[Jim Acosta]

I did have lunch with him as I was on a boat going across on a family vacation. My wife was with me, as were my four children and nannies. I had another couple with. They were there as well, with their children. And we had lunch on the island, that is true, for an hour. And we left with all of my children, with my nannies and my wife all together. We were on family vacation. We were not apart to suggest there was anything untoward about that in 2012. I don't recall why we did it.

[Mike Fanone]

But Mr. Secretary, again, I, as I said, there's not an indication that you yourself engaged in any wrongdoing with Jeffrey Epstein. It's the fact that you believe that you misled the country and the Congress based on your earlier statements suggesting that you cut off all contact when in fact you had not.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah, Joyce, the, the words I don't recall. Never a good, never a good moment when a secretary has to say that in a committee hearing, in a situation.

[Joyce Vance]

Like this, especially after he has confessed to lying in his, in his earlier comments. Look, you know, I can't imagine taking my four kids on a vacation to Epstein island knowing that he had been convicted as a child predator. I think that this is absolutely the kind of bad judgment that means that the President of the United States should summarily fire him. I recall a time when Alex Acosta, then the Secretary of Labor, was filed, was fired because of his role in the flubbed federal prosecution of Epstein many, many years ago. If Donald Trump does not fire Lutnick as a result of this, then I think that we can draw the logical conclusion, which many of us have already drawn, which is that Donald Trump is not affronted by this sort of thing unless it's Democrats. Remember, after the initial release he ordered Pam Bondi and she acquiesced in the suggestion that investigation should be reopened into Epstein, but only where Democrats were concerned. You know, what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

[Jim Acosta]

That's exactly right. And it just seems to me that what we're looking at here is a scandal that is, just has, has connections running in every possible direction that you can think of and they don't know how to put a lid on this. And Donald Trump is saying, hey, wait a minute, I, you know, I thought that we were just going to smear Bill Clinton and some Democrats and call it a day. And his own, I mean, you know, this is a cover up, it seems to me. And Melanie Stansberry, the Congresswoman, came out in front of the cameras and she said that this is, this is basically a cover up. What's happened. Let's play a little bit of that, too.

[Joyce Vance]

Multiple administration officials, including Howard Lutnick, Elon Musk, who served as the appointee for the DOGE efforts in the White House. We know that the Secretary of Navy, we know that there, that Steve Bannon, we know that there are more than three dozen associates, family members and individuals directly associated with Donald Trump named in those files. Now there are now at least nine or 10 other countries across the world that have opened investigations or forced their leaders to step down because of their mere association with Jeffrey Epstein.

[Jim Acosta]

And, Joyce, we just don't have the same accountability in this country. And she makes an excellent point about all of these people who are connected to Donald Trump, part of the administration, key advisors, and so on.

[Joyce Vance]

You know, it seems so coincidental at first. How could Trump have had Alex Acosta in his cabinet? Maybe he just didn't know. Right? Then you've got Lutnick. Now we learned that he is surrounded by people who are named in the Epstein files. Look, I mean, call me a jaded old prosecutor. We used to argue to juries. I didn't pick the witnesses against this defendant. The defendant selected them himself. These are the people that Donald Trump chooses to align with, to bring into his administration. And far too many of them seem to have an Epstein tarnish for it to be just sort of a casual coincidence.

[Jim Acosta]

And, Joyce, I have to ask you about a name that maybe some of our viewers may not be familiar with, but they are probably familiar with the law firm of Paul Weiss. This is the law firm that cut the deal with Donald Trump in the early days of this second administration. And just the other day, he was removed from his position leading this elite law firm, and his name is surfaced in the Epstein files. And I'm just curious what you think about this, because to me, again, I just find this to be very strange. Here's Brad Karp, who is leading this very prominent law firm, and they cut this deal just like, faster than a New York minute with Donald Trump in the early days of the second administration. And now it turns out he has these Epstein connections. And I think it says two things. One about how this is just spreading in every different direction, but also, is it possible that there's some connection between Epstein and why they decided to bend the knee and cut this deal with Donald Trump in the early days of the administration. Your thoughts on that? Because I. It's stunning to me.

[Joyce Vance]

Me, too. And there's so much left for us to learn. I mean, I hope Congress is committed to a thorough investigation. Perhaps that will become more possible after the midterm elections, because there are a lot of people who need to be subpoenaed and publicly testified. This, this is not a limited oversight committee hearing. This is a major moment in American jurisprudential history where. Where there needs to be full accountability. The only way to do that right now is in Congress because it's not happening at the Justice Department and state prosecutors who would Would love to make that kind of accountability appear, simply don't have the same tools and the same jurisdictional reach that their federal counterparts do. So, look, Brad Karp is, is at Paul Weiss. It's one of the biggest firms in the country and he's the managing partner. Every major law firm has a partner who steps into that role. He has now resigned from that role, but he is still a partner at the law firm. And as you say, and we've discussed, we've established, not a big believer of coincidence when Donald Trump approaches Paul Weiss, Brad Karp in just like a Miami second cuts a deal with the White House, caves into all of the pressure. And it's the fact that Paul Weiss bends the knee that leads other law firms to do it. Some of them, even before Trump issued executive orders against them. Some of them like Kirkland and Ellis, negotiating in advance in hopes of avoiding an executive order. What we've learned since is that every law firm that challenged an executive order against them has succeeded in court. These executive orders are unconstitutional. They violate the law. And so the question that I would have for Brad Karp, if I was one of his partners, the question I would be demanding an answer to is the fact that you're now mentioned in the Epstein files. Did that have anything to do with the decision that you made early on to cave?

[Jim Acosta]

Right. And it was a, it was a, it was a massive decision that had far reaching implications because it put pressure on other firms to do the same thing. And you would have to think, I'm not from that world. But Joyce, you probably have some, you know, some thoughts on this that, you know, when a big law firm like Paul Weiss decides to bend the knee, I assume that there are other managing partners, other big time lawyers at some of these other big time firms that are like, well, if Paul Weiss is doing it, maybe we better do it too. And if we don't do it, then the Trump administration is going to come after us. And you can see how this can build critical mass. And this was happening all across American society at the beginning of last year, major news organizations, law firms, universities, and you know, Brad Karp kind of started all this. It's pretty shameful.

[Joyce Vance]

It really is. Look, if Paul Weiss had held out, like Covington and Burling, another one of the big law firms did, and like firms after did, like Wilmer Hill, held out, the trajectory of Trump's grasp, his stranglehold on the legal community could have been entirely different. Because in the first Trump administration, when he, for instance, passed the imposed, the Muslim ban. There were lawyers, including big firm lawyers, flocking to airports providing pro bono legal services. And big law firms were involved in major litigation. Just this past week, I had a conversation with Mark Elias, who does election law, and he has pointed to the absence of most major law firms in the public square on these cases. I think that there's a direct line between what, what Brad Karp did and what's happening now with the legal, you know, practitioners. And Karp should be asked, his accountability should at least be to the partners in his law firm to answer those questions.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah, we're just not seeing as many prosecutions and resignations and consequences in this Epstein scandal, but I suspect there are some of these to come. But, Joyce, these conversations always fly by so quickly. But I really appreciate it. Thank you so much for coming on. It's great to see you again.

[Joyce Vance]

Thanks for having me. It's good to see you, too.

[Jim Acosta]

All right, we'll do it again soon. Thank you, Joyce. Really appreciate it. And there's, there's just a lot of. I mean, this thing is moving quickly, this Epstein Gate scandal. And listen, if somebody could do me a favor and go back into the archives of, of all media and find out if anybody was calling this the Epstein Gate scandal before me, because I started calling it the Epstein Gate scandal back, and was it July of last year? And I imagine there must have been folks in the press or, or folks on other places who saw me saying this and saying, jim, how can you call it Epstein Gate that's so unfair to Donald Trump? How can we do that? That's just. Does it really deserve a gate? Yes, for Pete's sake, it does deserve a gate. And let's talk about this further. Our friends Glenn Kirchner, Michael Fanone are here to give us two different perspectives on this. Mike, you and I were talking about doing this a couple of days ago, and then, lo and behold, another figure in Epstein Gate, Steve Bannon, just got, I guess, a bit of good news from the Justice Department. The Justice Department is now going to dismiss. They're going to just completely wipe clean this, this Justice Department case against Steve Bannon when it comes to not testifying before the January 6th committee. And I guess Todd Blanche put this tweet out that says the Department of Justice told the Supreme Court that Steve Bannon's conviction arising from the January 6th committee improper subpoena. This is top Blanche saying this should be vacated. I mean, Mike, I know you wanted to see Steve Bannon testify in all this. We never got to see Steve Bannon testify on all this? He went to jail for some of this. Now he's going to have his conviction wiped out. What do you think?

[Mike Fanone]

Yeah, I mean, it doesn't come as a surprise. I mean, this Department of Justice is completely corrupted and corroded under Pam Bodney's, if you want to call it leadership. Yeah. Not. No surprises there. And I guess the precedent is set from here on out. Congressional subpoenas are optional.

[Jim Acosta]

Right. And, Glenn, I know you, you reached out this morning because you had some thoughts on this. This was your area of the Justice Department that's coming into play here. And I mean, you know, even Todd Blanche putting in that tweet, the Unselect Committee or whatever, I mean, it's like Donald Trump, he's just playing to the audience of one there. But, I mean, I think Mike's right. I mean, that's one of the things that we, that we all learned out of this January 6th committee, you know, episode, is that you can, you can send out subpoenas. They don't have to be honored. And Trump established a precedent here. And, and here you have Steve Bannon, a figure who is in the Epstein files, I mean, umpteen times, I mean, a lot more than some people. And he's getting sprung here. It's very interesting timing. Yeah.

[Glenn Kirschner]

Subpoenas are optional, I guess, perhaps if you're a friend or maybe even a criminal associate of Donald Trump. I mean, remember, Steve Bannon was federally indicted previously for doing what? Defrauding Trump supporters with the phony We Build the Wall Foundation. And you would think Donald Trump would be concerned that somebody was defrauding his supporters. No, he pardoned Bannon in the federal case. Bannon went on to plead guilty in a state case for, you know, the same conduct because it violated state law as well. So this, you know, I'm going to part ways with Mike, and I rarely do that. I'm a little surprised by this. I know I shouldn't be, because, you know, Donald Trump is forever trying to weaponize DOJ against his perceived enemies and do favors for his friends and cronies and criminal associates at times. But, you know, when you realize, Jim, this is not just your run of the mill motion to dismiss an indictment. If we, if we kind of work through the basics, Rule 48 of the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure, say a prosecutor can move to dismiss an indictment or criminal information or a complaint. It doesn't say you can move to dismiss something that's been indicted that survived all of the motions to dismiss in pretrial litigation that has been presented to a jury, and a jury of Bannon's peers unanimously banged him out with guilty verdicts on both counts. A judge then considered what the appropriate sentence was, and he put Bannon's butt in prison for four months. Bannon served. His sentence to case is over. And for Jeanine Pirro, the U.S. attorney, with not a single career prosecutor willing to sign this motion to dismiss, for her to say, you know, that it's in the interests of justice that we now move to dismiss not just his indictment, but his entire case, his criminal conviction is. It's a searing injustice. It's another gross abuse of prosecutorial power. But I guess it shouldn't come as a surprise now, Donald Trump has priors in this regard because he tried to do the same thing with Mike Flynn after Mike Flynn pleaded guilty twice to lying to the FBI. And, and then, you know, Donald Trump's dirty DOJ lawyers galloped in and said, we want to dismiss the case. And Judge Emmett Sullivan, who presided over the case, put them through the wringer. And you could tell in the worst way, he didn't want to grant the motion to dismiss. But frankly, Jim, a judge's hands are a little bit tied when the prosecutors file a motion to dismiss, because if the judge denies the motion, well, if it's an active case, the judge can't just take a prosecutor and, and drop him into the case and say, go look. If DOJ doesn't want to prosecute a case unless it's contempt of a judge's order, and then the judge does have some options to push that rock up the Hill, you know, the judge's hands are tied. But they did the same thing in the Eric Adams case. Yeah, they filed a motion to dismiss the indictment. Eric Adams, it looked like, committed all kinds of public corruption crimes, but they actually walked into court. Emil Beauvais, who is now an appeals court judge, went into court and said, well, it's not because we don't have the goods on Eric Adams. It's because we want him to help Donald Trump with his political priorities like immigration and deportation. That's a gross abuse of prosecutorial power. And Judge Ho put them through the wringer and didn't want to do it. So here we go again. Now, isn't it curious that as Politico reported. Let me just read this one sentence. Pirro's motion to dismiss comes amid renewed scrutiny of Bannon's close association with convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein as a result of the recent release. So might it be tied to that. But here's the other thing that really bothers me, Jim.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah.

[Glenn Kirschner]

Remember, Donald Trump was about to go to trial, probably in two federal cases, classified documents in. Until alien Cannon, you know, squirreled that one. And Judge Chutkan was, was litigating whether Donald Trump could still go to trial for his January six crimes.

[Jim Acosta]

Exactly.

[Glenn Kirschner]

Even, even assuming that he had some level of immunity. And then he got reelected. And what is he doing now? He's suing the. He's suing the US government, his own government, for $230 million because he was wrongfully prosecuted. Now when, if they dismiss the Bannon case, Jim, will Bannon turn around? Well, that's 100 million himself because he is being. He was wrongfully prosecuted, which he wasn't. I mean, there's always some kind of a criminal scheme afoot when it comes to Trump and his flunkies.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah. No, and Mike, I mean, let's. People can memory hold this stuff? Mike, Steve Bannon was the one who was saying just right before January 6th, strap in. You know, this is going to be, this is going to be wild. What takes place down at the Capitol. He was previewing a lot of what took place on that day. I mean, it seemed I had information at that time that Steve Bannon was in contact with a lot of people who ended up showing up down at the Capitol that day. People around Steve Bannon had conversations with people who ended up showing up at the Capitol that day. And I mean, let's also keep in mind that Steve Bannon was just recently talking about ICE agents showing up at polling places this November. And so Steve Bannon, his, his run ins with the, with the Justice Department have not reigned him in at all. He's still a. He seems to me my opinion here, he still remains a dangerous figure in our country right now.

[Mike Fanone]

You know, there's a lot of questions that, that never got answered. We know that, you know, he was present at that meeting that famously took place just before the Stop the Steel rally. I forget the name of the hotel right across the street from the White House.

[Jim Acosta]

Willard. Yeah.

[Mike Fanone]

Yeah. And you know, we, it would have been nice to know what the topic of conversation. Although I'm sure, you know, at this point we can all speculate. But yeah, I mean, he was intimately involved in the Stop the Steal rally, the preparation before that. He has had a lot of communication and contact over the years with groups like the Oath Keepers, the Proud Boys and the Three Percenters. And he's someone who's fetishized civil war in this country for a long, long time, and promotes it through his podcast and like you said, has recently talked about one, if we lose the midterm elections. He said a lot of us in this room, including myself, and that's a quote from him, are going to go to prison. So he, he clearly recognizes what the stakes are and now is calling for ICE agents to surround polling places, I believe in 15 specific locations that voted strongly against Donald Trump.

[Glenn Kirschner]

Right.

[Jim Acosta]

And so, I mean, Mike, I mean, the problem is, is that, and you know this from your law enforcement background, as does Glenn. I mean, if, if people don't learn their lesson the first time or their second time in their run in, with, with justice, I mean, you know, what are we going to do about this? I mean, it seems to me and, and the fact that he's implicated time and again in these Epstein files, you know, the timing of this, it's pretty freaking fishy. It seems to me this. Something smells rotten here.

[Mike Fanone]

Yeah, I mean, that everything is a distraction from, from all the criminality of this administration, whether it's, you know, Donald Trump's enriching himself through, you know, a whole variety of different salacious means, whether the bitcoin thing, suing the federal government. He's got the IRS lawsuit for what I think it's like $10 billion for leaking his, allegedly leaking his, his tax returns. And he's got this lawsuit again, you know, for a malicious prosecution. You know, the proud boys are suing the federal government for malicious prosecution for a billion dollars. I mean, there's all of his, his allies in, you know, the 2020 election and the most recent election are now getting their, getting their payback, so to speak. But I mean, the Epstein files thing is just, I don't know enough about it, but it is just so bizarre. And I'll be honest with you, at this point, I don't understand why members of Congress don't just read the names that are redacted on the House floor if they're going in these meetings and seeing these names, like, let's, let's just find out once and for all who's, you know, who's implicated in these. I mean, some of the things that have come out just over the past, you know, the, the last document drop about torture videos and, you know, body being buried, you know, Jeffrey, order sheets for. Was it acid? 55 gallon drums of acid going to Epstein Island. I mean, come on, dude, you don't have to be a detective to recognize the fact that what's going on Here is, is dark. Yeah, let's just, you know, let's have a little bit of transparency and some accountability. And it's clear that it's not going to come from the administration. So stop looking to people like Pam Bondi and Cash Patel. They're actively involved in, in covering this whole thing up.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah, I mean, and Glenn, I mean, your sense of where this scandal is headed, the Epstein Gates scandal is headed, because it seems to me you've got Howard Lutnick, you know, he was testifying just today, basically admitted that he had lied and said that he had stopped associating with Jeffrey Epstein in 2005. It turns out he went with his family to Epstein Island. He brought his children to Epstein Island. This is Jeffrey Epstein who was convicted in the late 2000s of pedophilia, basically, and in a state court in Florida and pled to state charges in Florida. And it just seems to me, you know, there's, that, there's the shifting explanations from Donald Trump. There's Elon Musk showing up in the Epstein file. There's. And Glenn, I wonder what you think about this. It seems as though there's accountability happening in other places around the world, but not here in the United States. It's unreal. And any, any Justice Department that, that is worth its salt, Democratic or Republican administration in the past, that they would be opening up a massive investigation right now. And, and, and I was talking to Joyce Vance about this. You wouldn't have members of Congress reading these files. You would have career prosecutors going through these files and saying, where are the case? I want some cases brought forward. I want some asses going to jail. I want people in handcuffs over this shit. Because we're talking about victimizing children repeatedly.

[Glenn Kirschner]

You know, Jim, you're exactly right. We just had the recent dump of some 3,000 Epstein documents. And what happened there actually were criminal investigations commenced. Where in the UK they execute. This was reported yesterday. They executed two search warrants on properties of Peter Mandelson. Right. Longtime Member of Parliament. In 2025, he was ambassador from the UK to the US and you know, that's what you would expect. Right. Evidence is revealed and criminal investigations commence. There's also reporting that authorities are now looking into, you know, who was formerly known as Prince Andrew again in relation to the recent Epstein filed disclosures. And yet our own Department of Justice will do nothing. I mean, saying that this is the most massive cover up imaginable in our nation's history, probably by Bondi and Blanche, you know, all orchestrated by Trump, is Just a gross understatement that we are not investigating all of the countless leads that are in the Epstein file.

[Jim Acosta]

This is, this is a cover up. You think this is a cover up?

[Glenn Kirschner]

No doubt, no doubt. 100.

[Mike Fanone]

And you know, just look at, look at all the people from the Trump orbit who have, or people that are mentioned in the Epstein files that have found themselves in prominent or cushy positions.

[Glenn Kirschner]

Right.

[Mike Fanone]

Administration, I mean, come on, like Bannon's benefited tremendously under this administration. He's all over the Epstein files. Lutnick, you know, you, I mean, it's just. Alex.

[Jim Acosta]

Secretary of the Navy. Yeah, right.

[Mike Fanone]

Like all of these guys are, are, you know, are now prominent members of, of this administration, you know, getting taxpayer funded lifestyle.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah, it's unreal. Yeah. And I found out that my name came up at the Epstein files there. I found this in, in the documents over the weekend. I put my name in the search engine and apparently Jeffrey Epstein's accountant emailed Jeffrey Epstein to say, look at this interaction between Jim and Stephen Miller. And it was my interaction with Steven back in August of 2017 or whatever it was. And that's, it was just a YouTube clip or link that was there. And so I don't know what the hell was. Why did Jeffrey Epstein want to see that or why did his accountant want to pass that along? But it seems to me all you have to do is go into the goddamn screen search engine and plug in people's names and their names will pop up in this thing. You just have a little experiment and plug in Steve Bannon's name and see how many times his name pops up in here. Or Elon Musk. It's unreal.

[Mike Fanone]

No one more than Donald J. Trump more than 38, 000 times.

[Jim Acosta]

Right?

[Mike Fanone]

He's referenced the guy that barely knew Epstein, cut off all ties with Epstein was Epstein's best friend. I mean, let's just call it what it was. Yeah, he was Epstein's best friend.

[Jim Acosta]

And it's, it's crazy. And I, I think, I think accountability is coming. It may have to come from the voters. It may not come from the prosecutors, or it may have to come from the prosecutors in a few years from now. But it seems to me that, that he is trying to hide something big time right now. And maybe he'll throw Howard Lutnick under the bus. They'll figure out a way to kind of throw us off the sand to put out another crazy tweet to get us to talk about something else. But we can't stop talking about this case. And to me, this is the case that could bring him down. And I just, I've felt this way since last July when they tried to sweep this under the rug and put that memo out saying there's nothing to see here. I think this is what could bring him down and may and will bring him down. MAGA is starting to crack. They're not putting up with this, a lot of those folks. And so we'll just have to see how it plays out. But Glenn and Mike, great to see both you. Really appreciate it. Great conversation. Hey, great being with you, Jim. All right, you, Glenn, Jim, good to see you guys. Thanks a lot. Mike and I, I don't want to lose sight and we have talked about the Epstein files quite a bit. I don't want to lose sight of what is taking place with ICE and the immigration crackdown in this country. It has been absolutely horrific. We talked about this on yesterday's show where we were showing you those, those drawings from those children that are being held at the Dilley Detention center in Texas. The letters from the children who are being held at the Dilley Detention center in Texas. Children talking about how they don't have enough to eat, how they're sick, how they're cold, how they miss their family and their school. It is absolutely a monstrosity that this country is doing this. It sounds like concentration camps that we're putting little Latino kids in right now and is absolutely disgusting and horrifying. But I will tell you that there are other folks who are getting caught up in these ICE raids around the country and getting tossed into detention facilities. And I'm only bringing this up because I think it's a very interesting interview. Rte, the Irish news outlet in Dublin, they did an interview with a gentleman who got. He was. He's been ensnared in this. This was somebody who, his name is Seamus Cullaton and this is, according to rt, is an Irish man who's been held by US Immigration and Customs Enforcement for five months despite having a valid work permit and no criminal record. Uh, this man, Seamus Kelton, says he fears for his life and has appealed for help from Ireland's government. He spoke with Ireland's RTE Radio about this and I just want to play a little bit of that because it is extremely revealing what this Irishman has to say. Let's play this.

[Seamus Cullaton]

Best way I could describe it is probably like a modern day concentration camp. It's a bunch of temporary tents. There's probably room for a thousand detainees in, in each Tent, I believe there's like five tents. I've been locked in the same room now for four and a half months. I've had barely any outside time. No fresh air, no sunshine. I could probably count on both hands the amount of times I've been outside. So just locked in this room all day, every day. We've got two TVs on the wall, we get three meals a day, very, very small meals, kid sized meals. So everybody's hungry, everybody's tired, we've got no commentary, we've got no options to get extra food or anything like that. The conditions here are filthy. The toilets, the showers, completely nasty, very rarely cleaned. I'm in fear for my life down here, honestly, because, you know, people have been killed by the staffing, by the security staff, you know, and you just don't know what's going to happen on a day to day basis. You know, if there's going to be riots, you don't know if there's going to be, you know what's going to happen. It's just, it's a nightmare down here.

[Jim Acosta]

I mean, is there competition for food, given how little you're each getting?

[Seamus Cullaton]

Oh, absolutely, there is, yeah. And there's, you know, there's, there's a little bit of the discrimination, I guess, against English speakers here. You know, the Spanish speakers definitely got a preference when it comes to the extra food, if there's any extra food left over, you know, because all the staff are kind of Hispanic and, you know, they kind of stick with their own when it comes to that kind of stuff, you know, so we'd be extremely lucky to get anything extra, you.

[Jim Acosta]

Know, so there's, there's a gentleman from Ireland living in the United States for years, legally, no criminal record, gets picked up by ice, put in one of these detention facilities and you have to listen to the words that he's using, how they don't have enough to eat, how the conditions are filthy, how using the bathroom, using the toilet is. Sounds like it's a traumatizing thing there too, because it's just, it's so horrendous and disgusting inside these facilities and that there seems to be some sort of goddamn Lord of the Fly situation going on where the, where the detainees are scrambling and, and battling with one another. It sounds like, as the case for food. And so God bless the people of RTE for getting in touch with this man Seamus to tell his story, because these are the stories that need to be told. These are the stories that need to get out there. These are The American people need to start listening. The American people need to start waking up to the reality of what is taking place in this country right now. And that is we have some modern day concentration camps that are being run by our government, paid for with our tax dollars to warehouse immigrants in this country, many of whom, the majority of whom have no criminal records. No criminal records. They're, they're living here peacefully. Their, their, their documents may not be in order, that may be the case. But is that a rationale for putting locking people up in these kinds of conditions with not enough food, living in filth, being exposed to violence? That man Seamus was just talking about guards killing people in these facilities. Can you imagine living with that kind of fear on a regular basis? What are we doing as a country where we're locking up other people who just want to come to America and be a part of the American dream? And we grab them off the streets and we lock them up and we treat them like animals? What are we doing in this country? And it seems to me what is happening is that first of all, members of Congress are not exercising their, their oversight responsibilities here. In many cases there are some who are doing it, people like Robert Garcia and so on, who've had on this show, Ro Khan and others who've had on this show. But what has happened to the Republicans? What is wrong with you guys? You control the House and the Senate, hold some goddamn hearings on these detention centers. They sound like gulags and concentration camps that are being run on American soil and run by American citizens. It is absolutely disgusting and disgraceful and it needs to stop. And the governors of these states need to do something. The governors of these states need to be suing the administration to shut down these facilities. And ladies and gentlemen, as I've been talking about on this show, we've been reporting on this over the last several weeks. The Trump administration is now currently hoping to open up dozens more of these facilities all around the country. And kudos to Rachel Maddow and the folks at Ms. Now they have been focusing on this, they've been reporting on this as we have here. But the word needs to spread further. Where are the newspapers? Where are the networks? We can't just report on this when little Liam is, is caught up in this. We have to keep the heat on these folks every single solitary day. And if it were not for this interview that the folks at RTE just conducted with this man Seamus, we would not be able to hear this kind of eyewitness account of what is going on. It Seems to me that much more congressional oversight is needed, that the governors of these states need to take the administration to court to stop the expansion of these facilities. And there needs to be, I mean, just a, an array of inspections at all of these facilities around the country. We needed to know what's going on inside these facilities. They can't just be black sites that are being operated by the American government and paid for with your tax dollars. Who the hell signed up for this? I don't think anybody signed up for. Maybe the, the very far right kooks and MAGA signed up for this, but the vast majority of us did not. And so you have to wonder what it's going to take to stop this. But it seems to me that not enough is being done right, right now by anybody in any kind of official capacity. Donald Trump is being allowed to run gulags and concentration camps in this country to warehouse immigrants. And it needs to stop. It needs to stop. My thanks to Joyce Vance for joining me today. Always appreciate her legal insights. Our buddy Mike Fanone and Glenn Kirschner as well. I don't say it enough, but I'll say it again here at the end of this show. It does matter when you support independent media. Please subscribe. Become a part of this, become a part of this independent media movement in this country. When you support us, when you support this program, it builds up independent media. It puts pressure on the corporate legacy media to do their damn jobs. Can you imagine what would be taking place in this country right now if you didn't have independent media keeping the heat on legacy and corporate media in this country? They would just not get the job done. And so all of this is vitally important. Whether you're watching on substack or YouTube, listening on Apple podcasts or anywhere else, when you support, when you like, when you share, all of those things really do matter. So thank you. And if you're already doing it, my thanks to you first and foremost for helping us do this every single day. It is greatly appreciated. And as you can tell, right now, I'm on the road. I'm in California all week. So California friends say hi. If you see me going by in an Uber or something, or you see me at a restaurant, just come over and say hi. Would love to chat with you. Always great to run into the subscribers out in public. And it's funny, you know, a year ago when I started doing this, people were like, what the hell is substack? And I, no, no offense to Substack, but I heard from where are you now, Jim? What's it called? Substack. And now when I run into people, one year later. Oh, I watch the show on Substack. It's great. I'm a subscriber. I'm a paid subscriber. I listen to it here. I watch it there. This is growing. This is building. It's turning into something. And it's because of you. So really appreciate. I'll be here in California all week long. So if you have any California tips, pass them along. I'll take them. Appreciate it, as always. Still reporting this time from Los Angeles, California, I'm Jim Acosta. I'll see you next time.