Katie Phang, Dem Rising Star Rep. Melanie Stansbury, and Juliegrace Brufke

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Jim Acosta Show

Episode: Katie Fang, Dem Rising Star Rep. Melanie Stansbury, and Julie Grace Brufke
Release Date: May 21, 2025
Host: Jim Acosta
Description: Don’t give into the lies. Don’t give into fear. Hold on to the truth. And hope. jimacosta.substack.com

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1. Introduction and Guests

[00:00 - 00:38]
Jim Acosta welcomes listeners to the show, expressing frustration with former President Donald Trump's continued detachment from reality. He introduces his guest, Katie Fang, commenting on their shared status as "refugees from mainstream media."

Notable Quote:

• Jim Acosta: "Trump is once again demonstrating he has lost touch with the real world."

2. Trump’s Oval Office Meeting with South African President

[00:38 - 02:23]
Jim and Katie discuss Trump's recent controversial meeting with South African President Cyril Ramaphosa. Acosta criticizes Trump's baseless claims about the targeting of white farmers in South Africa, highlighting that these claims have been debunked by experts.

Notable Quotes:

• Katie Fang [00:52]: "But, yeah, crime."
• Jim Acosta [01:14]: "Is there a conspiracy theory he won't chase?"

3. Emoluments Clause and Air Force One Controversy

[04:33 - 06:43]
The conversation shifts to Trump's acceptance of a Boeing 747 aircraft from Qatar as Air Force One. Katie Fang points out the potential violation of the Emoluments Clause, emphasizing that accepting such gifts from foreign nations is problematic.

Notable Quotes:

• Katie Fang [05:15]: "He's just so dumb that he doesn't realize sometimes that when you open. Opens his mouth, insert foot, he steps in it."
• Jim Acosta [06:43]: "Why would you even want to have the guilt by association of accepting a gift from Qatar?"

4. Supreme Court and Elon Musk’s DOGE Project

[08:00 - 11:18]
Jim introduces concerns about the Trump administration seeking to block Supreme Court orders related to Elon Musk’s DOGE project. They discuss the implications for government transparency and the potential misuse of power.

Notable Quotes:

• Katie Fang [10:54]: "We don't know the full extent of the blast radius yet from the DOGE impact."
• Jim Acosta [11:18]: "It has to be part of the government."

5. Deportations and Federal Judge’s Order Violations

[11:18 - 16:15]
The discussion turns to a federal judge in Boston ruling that the Trump administration violated deportation orders by sending migrants to third countries. Katie criticizes the administration’s practices and calls for judicial accountability.

Notable Quotes:

• Katie Fang [15:38]: "They have to."
• Jim Acosta [16:15]: "Didn't Cash Patel tweet that no one's above the law?"

6. Interview with Congresswoman Melanie Stansbury

[17:43 - 37:40]
Representative Melanie Stansbury joins the show after overcoming technical issues. The conversation covers her symbolic act of holding a sign behind Trump during a joint session of Congress, expressing that "This is not normal." Stansbury discusses the House Republican tax and spending bill, highlighting its potential to cut Medicare and Medicaid, adversely affecting millions of Americans.

Notable Quotes:

• Melanie Stansbury [20:04]: "It was not only my SOS to the American people to say that, I see you, we're fighting for you."
• Jim Acosta [22:00]: "Congressional Budget Office has just come back with numbers that said that this bill could force nearly $500 billion in cuts to Medicare."

7. House Republican Tax and Spending Bill: Impact and CBO Findings

[21:12 - 30:54]
Stansbury elaborates on the Congressional Budget Office’s (CBO) assessment of the bill, which projects significant cuts to Medicare and Medicaid, potentially leaving millions without healthcare. She draws parallels to the Gilded Age, warning of wealth redistribution that favors the richest Americans.

Notable Quotes:

• Melanie Stansbury [26:27]: "This bill is going to cut income for the poorest 10% of Americans by 4%, and it will make the 10% richest Americans 4% richer."
• Jim Acosta [25:05]: "Give him time."

8. Media Segmentation and Information Bubbles

[22:05 - 34:51]
Katie Fang and Stansbury discuss how media segmentation has created information bubbles, allowing Trump to effectively target specific voter demographics. They emphasize the importance of Democrats strengthening their ground game and messaging to counteract misinformation.

Notable Quotes:

• Melanie Stansbury [25:05]: "People are in whatever media and social world that they've been in for the last couple of years, and it's gotten more and more narrowed."
• Katie Fang [32:02]: "Democracy dies in darkness."

9. Optimism and Democratic Strategy for 2026

[30:54 - 36:00]
Both guests express optimism about the Democratic Party's chances in the upcoming midterms and beyond. They believe that strong messaging and grassroots mobilization can counteract the current administration’s policies and misinformation campaigns.

Notable Quotes:

• Melanie Stansbury [27:33]: "My only hope in this fight, especially as we look towards 2026, is that just like the Gilded Age ended with the Progressive Era... that this is going to mobilize people so much."
• Jim Acosta [31:48]: "There are known knowns and unknown unknowns and so on. And I just wonder if, if we're heading towards the dark side of the moon here."

10. Updates from Julie Grace Brufke on the Tax Bill's Progress

[37:40 - 41:20]
Journalist Julie Grace Brufke provides updates on the progress of the House Republican tax and spending bill. She mentions ongoing negotiations, potential votes, and the challenges posed by conservative members seeking specific concessions. The likelihood of the bill affecting Medicare and Medicaid remains a critical point of contention.

Notable Quotes:

• Julie Grace Brufke [38:10]: "While we're waiting for members to get back from the White House with the holdouts, and they've kind of been at a standstill..."
• Jim Acosta [40:35]: "If you touch Medicare and Medicaid... People not understanding that Medicare is government healthcare."

11. Conclusion and Tributes

[41:20 - End]
Jim Acosta wraps up the show by paying tribute to Congressman Jerry Connolly and Norm Peterson from the TV show "Cheers." He emphasizes the importance of dedicated public servants like Connolly and bids farewell to the late actor known for his role as Norm in "Cheers." Acosta also highlights upcoming events, including a live town hall in Washington D.C., and thanks his guests and listeners.

Notable Quotes:

• Jim Acosta: "Pour one out for Norman."
• Melanie Stansbury [37:03]: "We've all been fighting back and using our voices as strongly as we can."

Key Takeaways

• Trump’s Continued Controversies: Trump's baseless claims and questionable actions, including meetings with foreign leaders and acceptance of foreign gifts, continue to raise constitutional and ethical concerns.

• Legislative Challenges: The House Republican tax and spending bill poses significant threats to Medicare and Medicaid, potentially impacting millions of Americans' healthcare coverage.

• Media and Information Bubbles: The segmentation of media has allowed for targeted misinformation campaigns, necessitating strong Democratic strategies to counteract and mobilize voters.

• Judicial Accountability: There is a pressing need for the judiciary to enforce compliance with court orders, especially concerning the executive branch's immigration policies.

• Optimism for the Future: Despite current challenges, there is optimism within the Democratic Party about mobilizing voters and addressing the significant legislative threats posed by the Republican agenda.

Final Notes

Jim Acosta emphasizes the importance of accountability, transparency, and active civic engagement in combating the current administration's policies and ensuring the protection of democratic institutions. The episode underscores the critical role of informed media, dedicated public servants, and voter mobilization in shaping the nation's future.

Transcript

[Jim Acosta]

Hey, everybody. Welcome to the Jim Acosta Show. It is Wednesday, and Trump is once again demonstrating he has lost touch with the real world. So actually, it's another day that ends in y. If there were a rocker in the Oval Office, he would be off of it, as you can see. Joining me on today's program is the wonderful and talented and my new best friend, Katie Fang. How are you, Katie? Good to see you.

[Katie Fang]

Oh, my friend, you and I are refugees from mainstream media, although you've been hanging out in substack longer than me. So I'm going to say thank you for the welcome because it is a warm one from you and others. So thank you, my friend. Appreciate it. It's good to see you.

[Jim Acosta]

No, absolutely. No, this is wonderful. And the last time we did this, we did it very quickly, and we were about to do this thing with Norm Eisen, and I threw you on. I was like, hey, we're talking now. I've got to run to this event. And we basically. We didn't have time to really scratch the surface as to the insanity that we're all dealing with right now. And, I mean, we should just start with what everybody is talking about. This afternoon, Trump had this batshit crazy meeting in the Oval Office with the South African president, Cyril Ramaphosa.

[Katie Fang]

But that's his jam, right?

[Jim Acosta]

This is his jam.

[Katie Fang]

Bat shit crazy. It's just his jam. He's like, let me just do that.

[Jim Acosta]

You know, he pulled a Zelensky. He accused South Africa of failing to address Trump's baseless claim of widespread and targeted killing of white farmers. This is according to the Associated Press. Trump even dimmed the lights of the Oval Office to play a video of a far left politician chanting a song that includes the lyrics, kill the farmer. Experts in South Africa say there's no evidence of whites being targeted. Although farmers of all races are victims of violent home invasions. The country obviously has a very high crime rate. This has been debunked time and again.

[Katie Fang]

Happens anywhere, in any place, in any country. But, yeah, crime.

[Jim Acosta]

I mean, is there a conspiracy theory he won't chase? I mean, that's. That's my question. And here we are.

[Katie Fang]

I mean, what's theory, Jim? The bottom line is he needs to justify, and I put that in quotes, he needs to justify his racist warfare, because how are you going to bring South Africans, whites, to the United States when you're kidnapping and deporting all the brown and black people? How are you going to justify bringing the white people in unless you can give them some cover? And the COVID is the lie that they are being subjected to some version of white genocide.

[Jim Acosta]

Absolutely. I mean, and he does. And usually these conspiracy theories are racially tinged. There was the birther theory about Barack Obama. There was one about Ted Cruz's father being part of the JFK assassination, which was also going after Hispanics. And the 2020 election, he always blames on undocumented people voting. And so, you know, there's always, he's always trying to hit people's, you know, racist pressure points.

[Katie Fang]

Didn't he win? I mean, look, I get the argument that maybe he didn't win, but didn't he win the 2024 election? Because last I checked, we're living in this, what I call dystopian hellscape, courtesy of the fact that that SOB won in November of 2024. So I'm kind of always wondering, he needs to get new material, Jim, because grievance campaign. He has. I have to sit there and say, do, do you think you lost? And this is just some weird subconscious way of you acknowledging that you actually didn't win in November? Because if you won, just, well, we're.

[Jim Acosta]

Doing this and we have to be careful. I mean, he is in a shitload of trouble right now. He is doing, you're right, he is doing sort of the, you know, the Grateful Dead, last tour type of stuff kind of shtick. But the big beautiful blunder Bill is not going anywhere up on Capitol Hill. I'm hoping to connect with Representative Melanie Stansberry in just a little bit. Some tech issues on that end and I want to get her take on all of this. He's in a lot of trouble because the public has not bought his lies on why he needs a brand new Air Force One from the and so of course he's going to just go down this road with the racist conspiracy theories in the Oval Office with the South African president. But I mean, I will say, and again, they reject the allegation that white people are disproportionately targeted by crime. This has been debunked by PolitiFact and so on. I do have to give some props out to the South African president, Katie, because at one point, I don't know if you saw this exchange, the South African president said, sorry, I don't have a plane to give you in reference to Qatar's gift of the free 747 to Trump to use as Air Force One. You have to admit, like, that ain't bad.

[Katie Fang]

And what did Trump say in return?

[Jim Acosta]

He said, Oh, I would take one.

[Katie Fang]

I would take one. And the great Norm Eisen, who's a good buddy of you and me, Norm and I are working together at Democracy Defenders, and we are working together at the Contrarian. And one of the things we're doing at Democracy Defenders is we're litigating against this administration. I have disclosed without disclosing, we're keeping our eyes right now on emoluments clause issues vis a vis Trump. And this admission by Trump publicly that, quote, I would take the plane, it flies in the face of any allegation that it's for the administration or for someone else or, excuse me, that would not be violative of emoluments.

[Jim Acosta]

Right.

[Katie Fang]

So, you know, it's. Every accusation is a confession with Republicans, but especially with Donald Trump. He's just so dumb that he doesn't realize sometimes that when you open. Opens his mouth, insert foot, he steps in it. He's not always dumb. I think he's crazy like a fox. But when he says stuff like that. Yes, a hat tip. Excuse me, hat off. Hats off to. To the South African president for not taking it, you know, well, and you.

[Jim Acosta]

Make a great point because earlier today, the AP reported the Defense Secretary, Pete Hegseth, did accept the gifted Boeing 747 aircraft from Qatar. I mean, when I read this, I have to laugh. It says the Defense Department will work to ensure proper security measures on the aircraft to make sure that it's safer use by the President. The Pentagon spokesman, Sean Parnell said. He added that the plane was accepted in accordance with all federal rules and regulations.

[Katie Fang]

According to whom? Pam Bondi. Last I checked, Pam Bondi wasn't confident to be able to give that assertion. But you know what kills me, Jim, is that I actually posted today on Social it's the grift is so brazen now. It's like they don't even pretend that they have to kind of do anything in any legal way. They're like, screw it, I have some type of mandate, which is a lie. There is no mandate for him. But Pam Bonney's not dispensing this legal advice. And if she is, it's wrong. We know that it violates emoluments clause. It's a foreign gift. But you know what the worst thing is? It's like, does everybody forget Qatari supports and finances Hamas?

[Jim Acosta]

Like, bingo.

[Katie Fang]

Terrorist organization? It's like, why would you even want to have the guilt by association of accepting a gift from Cutter? So it's just. But he doesn't care, right? I mean, he's at the bottom line. At the end of the day, he.

[Jim Acosta]

No, he doesn't, he does not care. No. And I mean, David Ignatius and others have said that that plane is going to have to be stripped down, it's going to have to be dismembered, reassembled, you know, so they could go through it and see if there are any bugs and so on. And it's, it's just, it's a joke. I mean, they're obviously going to give this to Trump when he leaves office. It's going to be his, his thing.

[Katie Fang]

And are they just going to park it at the. First of all, the guy doesn't read, but they're going to park it at the presidential library. Like, Jim, I'm dead serious. Where does it go? Physically, where does it go?

[Jim Acosta]

They're going to park it at the presidential casino. I mean, library.

[Katie Fang]

And you know, we're in Trump, Trump Gaza.

[Jim Acosta]

Well, it could be Trump Gaza, Trump Doha. You know, the possibilities are endless with the Trump corruption crime spree that we're seeing right now, Katie. But you know, the other thing I have to say is I, and I brought this up the other day, you know, because he's not going to follow the Constitution. I wonder if they, they need to pass a law in the Congress. Not that the Congress is going to do this, but that, I mean, you have to put some kind of legal restraints on the presidency so they can't do this sort of thing. I mean, it seems to me they.

[Katie Fang]

Tried that last year. There was the introduction of a bill. And I, and I do, I'm having a senior moment on who actually introduced the bill. And I'll supplement when we post our this video on substack. But they tried, they introduced a bill last year, reasonably anticipating this happening. Why? Because remember, there was at least two sets of litigation in Trump 1.0 about emoluments issues and knowing that the grift was benefiting Trump and the Trump family, the Trump crime family. And so that's the reason why they wanted to introduce it. But Jim, you kind of get to the, to the meat on the bone, which is I could introduce 50 million bills if I'm in Congress. But if you don't have the numbers to get it across the finish line.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah.

[Katie Fang]

What happens?

[Jim Acosta]

Right, exactly. And I'm going to try to get in touch with Representative Stansberry about this because she's become like a rising star in the Democratic Party. She held that sign up behind Trump at the joint speech to Congress when she had this sign that said this is not normal. So I want to get her on. Hopefully we can work this out. The other thing we have to talk about, though, Katie, because you come from the legal realm and you speak so forcefully on this stuff. Earlier today, the Trump administration asked the Supreme Court to block court orders requiring Elon Musk's Doge. Elon Musk, who doesn't want to be involved in politics anymore, apparently to turn over documents about its operations to a government watchdog group. I think it's fascinating that the Trump administration thinks that they can hide Doge documents from the public. I mean, it's the Department of Government Efficiency. I guess it's efficient if you never have to produce documents.

[Katie Fang]

True that. And here's the thing. What is that saying, right? Democracy dies in darkness. It literally will die in darkness if we don't get to see what Doge has been up to. It really makes you ask yourself, what are they trying to hide? It's the very obvious things that percolate to the top when something like this happens. But what we're looking at from a legal perspective, Jim, is we're looking at the different positions and representations that are being made in the courtrooms during hearings and in legal filings. Is Doge a part of the executive branch? Is it not? Is Elon Musk a part of the executive branch? Is he not? Who's running Doge? It's not Elon. It is Elon. I mean, on any given day, you have an inconsistent response. And what does them in eventually is the fact that they're so inconsistent on these positions that you can use that against them legally. But 30,000 foot view, there they are, and continue to dismantle our federal government. The wild thing is, if anybody thinks right now that they're not still doing it in real time, they're wrong. We just have so much other stuff that we are also paying attention to, including that crappy budget bill from Donald Trump. And so I want to remind people that, and I've said this before, Jim, one of the things that resonated with me was I interviewed somebody from Wired, and she said we don't even know the full extent of the blast radius yet from the Doge impact. Right?

[Jim Acosta]

That's right.

[Katie Fang]

We don't know, which is why finding out whether or not Doge is a governmental entity, and if so, they are subject to Freedom of Information act requests and demands. That's really what this is kind of dealing with, is Doge a governmental entity where Americans and the American public can make a Freedom of Information act request and get information to see exactly what they're doing.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah. I mean, it has to be part of the government. If they're closing departments of the federal government and if they're going into those agencies and hoovering up people's personal data, which continues to be one of the biggest outrages in all of this, in my view. And, Katie, I mean, the other thing. There's so much we have to bounce around. Thing is. And you flagged this to me, and I did want to bring this up. A federal judge in Boston said today that the Trump administration had violated an order that he issued last month barring officials from deporting people to countries not their own without giving them sufficient time to object. And this has to deal with these. These migrants being deported off to various countries. I'm just curious what you think about this. I mean, the documents shown by DHS show that these men were citizens of Cuba, Laos, Mexico, South Sudan, Burma and Vietnam. And it's just outrageous that you would. You can deport people to a third country, not their country. You want to get them out of the country, I suppose you can say that's your goal. But to send them to another country, that. That has to be a violation of the constitution of their rights.

[Katie Fang]

So there's eight people that were on this plane. The judge said you can't just summarily take them out of the United States jurisdiction and just plop them somewhere else. They've now been flown to South Sudan, which by all accounts is on the brink of a civil war. So it's not even like you took them to Paris, right, Jim? It's not even like you took them to a place where they could be ostensibly safe. And the government's excuses. Well, South Sudan may be just a way station on their way to some ultimate destination, but guess what, Judge, we don't have to tell you the specifics because it's.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah.

[Katie Fang]

The cojones on these people to make these representations to a federal judge. Make my jaw drop. As a lawyer, I would never make those representations, Jim. And I think the problem is that they're trying to play hide the ball. But there are people that are involved here, and that is critically an issue. But more importantly, there are orders from a federal judge that are being disobeyed. So you know what we need, Jim? Quickly. We need judges now to lower the boom. I have been very patient, as have many Americans, to say that the process needs to play out. But now we need judges that say, I am the judge. You have to Obey my order. And when you don't, I'm going to put your ass in jail. And when you purge the contempt that you have shown, and by purging, as you gave me the information I've asked for or you've done what I've asked you to do, then we can have that conversation. But, Jim, the lawyers can be sanctioned, but even better, bring in the, the department heads, bring in the Kristi Noams and the Marco Rubios and put their asses in jail and make them explain what they're doing or not.

[Jim Acosta]

And the judge apparently made it pretty clear he's thinking about punishment. Yeah, it's not clear what kind of punishment he's going to put out, but the reason why I think this is important is because didn't, didn't the Trump administration just arrest a judge the other day? They said the judge in Wisconsin was pulling a fast one and telling the migrant, go this way, they're coming this way. Okay, so if you're not following a judge's orders, Department of Homeland Security, who there gets arrested? If they're going to arrest a member of Congress, if they're going to arrest a judge, I'm sorry, what's going to be good for the gander?

[Katie Fang]

The mayor of Newark, New Jersey, Rob.

[Jim Acosta]

If they're going to arrest them. Okay, so who at DHS gets arrested? I think it's a good question. Who gets arrested here?

[Katie Fang]

That's what I'm telling you. I would haul in somebody from dhs, like Kristi Noem, and make her or Secretary of State Marco Rubio have to explain why they're not complying with court orders. It's interesting, Jim, because the dynamic is such that the lawyer is representing the client. The client in this instance is the Department of Homeland Security, you know, the State Department. Fill in the blank. And, or ice. And I, and I think, I don't know any lawyer that wants to go sit in jail for their client. I certainly wouldn't. Now, the lawyers can't be sanctioned as well, not go to jail. You could see them being fined, et cetera. But I do think, Jim, that it's time. I think that we've now seen multiple judges give orders that have been defied, if not just flat out ignored, by this administration. And I think it's time for a judge to put some teeth on these orders and say, enough with the bullshit. I have my equal branch of government in the judiciary, sorry to remind you of basic civics, executive branch. And I think that something needs to be done.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah. And that's the issue here is that we've reached that point and the question becomes what does the judicial branch do to enforce the law when it comes to the executive branch? And something that's. Something's got to give. And, you know, my sense of it at this point is that these judges are going to be reticent about doing this. They're going to be hesitant to do this because they're worried about just opening up Pandora's box. But this is the direction we're heading. If this administration continues in this lawless fashion, it seems to me, Katie, there's no other choice but to enforce the law.

[Katie Fang]

They have to.

[Jim Acosta]

Didn't Cash Patel tweet that no one's above the law?

[Katie Fang]

And, you know, I don't know when Cash has time because he's, you know, abusing government funds and going all over the country eating. Here's the thing, though. Federal judges have lifetime appointments, Jim. So it's not like you're going to get fired from your job. And you really, I think, hit the apex of insanity if you try to arrest a federal judge. Listen, I, I never would have thought we'd be at a place where you'd be arresting a state court judge. But there's a big difference between a state court judge and a federal judge. And I don't think they'd ever get to that point. I just think that they're going to be playing this game of chicken with the court. And I'm thinking, if I'm a judge and I am a co equal member of this government that we have called democracy, then why is my order less value than what Donald Trump wants to do or what Kristi Noem thinks is the right thing to do.

[Jim Acosta]

Exactly. Well, Katie, great to talk to you. Really appreciate it. Thank you so much. I'm going to try to get Representative Stansberry on, but let's keep doing this. Love the conversations. And it's so great to see you. I'm so happy for you and what you're doing right now.

[Katie Fang]

Listen, you've always been a trailblazer, Jim, even before. But I am grateful for you having the courage to be able to say, the water is pretty good here. You might want to dive in, Katie. So I appreciate you, my friend.

[Jim Acosta]

The water's warm and there's enough room for everybody. So I'm happy to see you.

[Melanie Stansberry]

That's the best part. Yes.

[Katie Fang]

It's good to see you, Jim. You take care. Bye, everybody. Thanks for tuning in.

[Jim Acosta]

Bye. She's. Katie's the best. Make sure you check Out Katie on Substack. Katie has been, I think, also joining forces with the folks at the Midas Touch. Those guys are great. I think I'm going to be on with the Midas Touch guys next week, so that'll be fun. I'm going to try to get Congresswoman Stansberry on the line here. I am so excited about having her on. You know, I, I, I'm a political nerd. Folks who are watching this program right now, political nerds, we all like to do this where we follow, you know, these rising stars in the Democratic Party. And I, I think Congresswoman Stansberry is one of those. She's quite adept at the social media thing, as we've all noticed. And you know, she, she had that sign up behind Donald Trump during that speech to a joint session of Congress right after he got going with the second term. And so I'm just sending a note to her staff now. Yeah, we're ready for you. Sending the invite. And sometimes these things just take time. As I like to say, the substack machine, the wheels of the substack machine sometimes turn slowly, but they, they spin towards justice or something along those lines. And there's the congresswoman right there. Hey, Congresswoman, great to see you.

[Katie Fang]

Great to see you, too.

[Melanie Stansberry]

I'm so excited to be here.

[Jim Acosta]

The eagle has landed. I feel like we've landed man or woman on the moon. And thanks for doing this. This is your first Substack Live, is my understanding, is that correct?

[Melanie Stansberry]

It is. It's my first time. I'm excited and I'm also excited to be on with you of all of the amazing and great journalists. So thanks for having me.

[Jim Acosta]

That's kind and I appreciate it. And I've been singing your praises to my audience because I just want to start with what you did at the Trump speech to a joint session of Congress when you held up that sign behind him that said this is not normal. As soon as I saw that, I was like, yes, she gets what people are saying. So many people are saying at home. And there was some Republican member of Congress, I think, who ripped it out of your hand or something like that. I want to start there and then I want to get into the news, but I'm just curious, like, what, and I know you've talked about this a little bit, but what was going through your mind? Why did you decide to do it? Was it one of those things where you're like, I gotta do something. This is nuts.

[Melanie Stansberry]

Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, it's important to remember the context. So he did his joint address a few days after that crazy interview that he did with Zelensky. And at that moment, the entire world was in shock. And I think that, you know, I've said it this way before, but it was not only my SOS to the American people to say that, I see you, we're fighting for you, and we are not going to normalize this, but to the entire world. And I have to say, it was amazing how it was literally the message that was heard across the world. You know, it was covered by the news in Singapore and Paris and Germany. And since then, I've received letters from all over the world. And also amazing art. In fact, we just got a quilt.

[Jim Acosta]

Really?

[Melanie Stansberry]

Yeah. People. And I think, you know, people are as. Actually, Hakeem Jeffrey said to me yesterday, people are looking for voices in the wilderness right now to help them feel grounded in this moment. And I think that it was just like a moment where people are like, okay, this is not normal. And what I'm feeling is real.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah, well, it spoke to me, and it spoke to so many other people, and it holds up. I mean, I think you could still. You could run that image during your next campaign, and things will still not be normal. But we have to get to the news, because I've been calling it the big beautiful blunder. The House Republican tax and spending bill up on Capitol Hill. It's. It's going to rob from the poor and give to the rich. And I was saying earlier today that maybe they should call this reverse Obamacare. Americans lose health care, the rich get their tax cuts, and the deficit explodes. I mean, the Congressional Budget Office has just come back with numbers that said that this bill could force nearly $500 billion in cuts to Medicare beginning in 2026. For those keeping track at home, that's next year.

[Melanie Stansberry]

Well, and I want to make sure that people heard that right. That's Medicare.

[Jim Acosta]

Medicare. I know, exactly.

[Melanie Stansberry]

And the reason why I wanted to emphasize that is that for months, the Republicans have been saying that they won't support cuts to Medicaid, which were very obviously in the reconciliation rules that they sent to the committees. But now, because of the scoring of this bill, the Congressional Budget Office is telling us it's going to hit Medicare. And that was a campaign promise that Donald Trump made, not only that he wouldn't hit Social Security, but that he wouldn't hit Medicare. So, yeah, this will be the biggest cut to Medicare, Medicaid, and food assistance in American history.

[Jim Acosta]

And part of it is because this would drive up the deficit so much that it would, it would force these kinds of cuts. Is that essentially what the Congressional Budget Office is saying? And you also, you hit the nail right on the head when you talked about, about Medicaid, because that's been a part of the conversation for weeks now. The Medicare thing is just something that came out of the clear blue. And I think that's why this bill has been blowing up their faces and they're running over to the White House with their tail between their legs. But apparently, according to the Congressional Budget Office, Medicaid, the cuts to Medicaid would leave nearly 9 million people without health care coverage and more than 7 million without insurance over 10 years. And I mean, I cover the Obamacare bill when it went through Congress and when President Obama signed it, that gave people, millions of people, health care in this country. This would do the opposite. And it just makes me ask the question, why do Trump supporters do this to themselves? And you come from a part of the country where you do interact with Trump supporters, you do talk to folks who are from that side of things. What's your sense of all that?

[Melanie Stansberry]

I mean. Well, first of all, let me just say there is so much in this bill that is in defense of indefensible. It's over a thousand pages. They're fifteen and a half hours into the rules hearing on it. There's a bunch of Freedom Caucus guys literally at the White House right now trying to claim that they're not going to vote for it because of fiscal responsibility, when I've seen every single one of those guys vote for it twice now. And in fact, you know, to your point, because this blows a hole in the deficit so massive, we're talking $3.8 trillion in the latest score. Wow. It's going to have mandatory sequestration on the budget, which is going to basically cause all these mandatory cuts to programs. But, yeah, I mean, people are, and you would know this of all people, people are in their own information bubbles. And our media has become so segmented and, you know, people, people are in whatever media and social world that they've been in for the last couple of years, and it's gotten more and more narrowed. And the thing that Trump has been very effective at, and which Musk funded with, you know, $300 billion or million, excuse me, million, I can't even keep track of my millions of billions these days, was further.

[Jim Acosta]

Give him time. Give him time. Yeah.

[Melanie Stansberry]

Further segmenting that population and then just bombarding them with, with messages that resonated to their own specific interests. Right. And so I don't blame the American people. I mean, if you're not following politics very closely and you're just reading what's on your Facebook feed or whatever news you follow, Fox News at night, whatever, that's, that's the world that, you know. And so I think that, you know, for people who are a little bit. They self identify as either socially or economically or fiscally conservative, they're still kind of that. They're still living in a world that is Reaganomics. Right. And, and Trump really played to that, and so that's how he picked up a lot of voters. But in reality, I mean, we've never seen anything like Donald Trump, the Griff, the graph, the stealing from the American people. You know, one of the things that was really shocking about this CBO score is that it says in plain language. I, I was actually like, you know, I'm a former budget person. I worked at OMB during the Obama administration. So I always think, yeah, so I always think about the budget people behind the scenes. And like, when I read the CBO score last night, in my mind's eye, I'm like, some analyst literally wrote this memo and said, oh, my God, I can't believe this. But this bell.

[Jim Acosta]

Wow.

[Melanie Stansberry]

No, I'm just saying, you know, I'm joking. But it says in plain language, this bill is going to cut income for the poorest 10% of Americans by 4%, and it will make the 10% richest Americans 4% richer. So it is literally a redistribution of wealth from the poorest Americans to the richest Americans. And last night when I couldn't sleep, as we were waiting for rules, I, you know, I was interested in, like, is this really like the Gilded Age? And it is like, identical, the policies that are in this bill, what Donald Trump is doing is everything that happened in the 1890s that led to this, this massive shift in wealth, the abuse of labor, the abuse of the environment. And, you know, my only hope in this fight, especially as we look towards 2026, is that just like the Gilded Age ended with the Progressive Era and this huge leap forward in our country, that this is going to mobilize people so much that in a year and a half, not only are we going to win the midterms, we're going to transform this country.

[Jim Acosta]

Well, you know, from, I mean, from your lips to God's ears. I mean, I worry about the information bubbles that people are in right now. I do wonder, though, because I bring this up on my show. From time to time, if, you know, there are some, there are some things that Donald Trump cannot keep from his people. If they go to the Walmart and they see that little Jenny's backpack is going to cost $10 more before they go back to school this fall because of tariffs, I mean, it's going to sink in. It's going to dawn on some people that they're paying more money because of these tariffs. If they lose health care because these Medicaid and Medicare cuts go through, I mean, that's obviously going to sink in. And so I wonder if perhaps there is some hope in that regard that you're talking about. I do worry, though, that what Trump is doing right now with his corruption spree that he's on right now, I mean, accepting a gift of from the Qataris in the form of this Air Force One. And he was, I don't know if you saw this because you're busy being a congresswoman, but he was in the Oval Office earlier today with the South African president who said, sorry, I don't have a plane for you. So there are leaders now from foreign countries who now have gotten the memo that the White House is open for business.

[Melanie Stansberry]

Yeah, I mean, well, first, what I think is important is like there are people who are hardcore Donald Trump people, and that's actually not a large proportion of the population. When you look at the polling. And in fact, when you look at the November election, House Democrats outperform Trump in every single district. And what that tells me is that what he did was peel off some voters, especially, you know, what we would traditionally call swing voters. And these are folks who are, you know, they might, their issue might be the military or veterans or fiscal conservatism or just the fact that they can't afford anything anymore. And they were very effective in doing micro targeted communication to peel off those people this last election. But where you had strong Democratic candidates, down ballot, they didn't win, they didn't win with the down ballot candidates. And so what that tells me is that we do have a winning message as long as our ground game is strong and we're able to reach people where they're at. And so I do think there's been so much post mortem about our message and how we failed, et cetera, et cetera. But I actually feel really strong headed into the midterms, not just about our chances in retaking the House, but in steering and recapturing the conversation about how all of the insanity is impacting our lives. And, you know, like many People who ran for office for the first time in 2018. I was new to politics. I'd worked as a nonpartisan OMB staffer in the Obama administration, and then I was a health staffer, and I was just a nerdy science staffer. But, you know, after the 2016 election, I think like so many people, I said I have to do something. And I know that we all felt a lot of urgency and fear then, but it, it was nothing in comparison to what people are feeling now, which I think is so visceral and unprecedented. I just, I. And that's why the American people, and I know we're going to come roaring back.

[Jim Acosta]

I am a foolish optimist as well. And I really believe that people are going to push back and it is going to. I mean, you think a blue wave is something Donald Trump, you just wait until 2026. The one wild card in all of this that makes me worry, though, is that this sort of Putin style corrupt authoritarianism that he's trying to bring into this second term, which is way beyond on what I saw the first term when I covered him over at the White House, could somehow work to insulate him and his party from paying a price. And, you know, just because we're the United States of America doesn't make us immune from things falling apart. And I just, that's, that, that's the wild card. That's the X factor. That's, you know, it's the old rumseldism. We, there are known knowns and unknown unknowns and so on. And I just wonder if, if we're heading towards the dark side of the moon here.

[Melanie Stansberry]

You know, I, I'm always looking for signs out there in the universe for optimism. My dear friend Ayanna Pressley says you have to be wired for optimism to survive in politics.

[Katie Fang]

And I like that.

[Melanie Stansberry]

Something to that. But yeah, I mean, look what happened with Elon Musk and Doge. A hundred days into Donald Trump's presidency, this was the big, bold idea. You know, the richest man on earth was going to come in and transform government. And not only did the American people take to the streets, they sent that guy packing. Now he's still there traveling with the president and getting rich off of even more rich off of these side deals, you know, we saw in Saudi Arabia. But, but that showed that even in this moment where Trump and his administration are trying every authoritarian playbook they can, the American people won. They won round one. And I think that, I mean, you know, look, this week he's now sent Doge to invade four different congressional offices, which is just a blatant attack on the Constitution. And they filed charges against Lamonica McIver.

[Jim Acosta]

Right.

[Melanie Stansberry]

In New Jersey. And. But here's.

[Jim Acosta]

What do you think of that?

[Melanie Stansberry]

I mean, obviously, it's an attempt to intimidate members of Congress, especially around their detention and immigration agenda. But I mean, again, I look at. Again, I'm looking for signs of hope in the ether. Another example I'll use is the Harvard case. Right. Weeks and weeks and weeks, these universities were getting bullied by the Trump administration. And instead of pushing back, and I understand why, you know, they. They capitulated to these bizarre and stupid and illegal demands of the Trump administration. And finally, Harvard, which had the resources to be able to push back, and the best lawyers on planet Earth, said, oh, hell no, we are not going to do this. And not only did they fold four days later, they suddenly are claiming that it was a complete mistake and they didn't mean it to begin with. So to me, that also indicates that they're gonna. They're gonna push every button and see what they can get away with, but they are still acting within the constraints of the institution. And as Jamie Raskin, who is the head of our litigation task force in the House, is constantly reminding us, you know, we're a bit more than 100 days, and there's now over 160 court orders. And I know Katie was just talking about this, but. But they are actually following the majority of those court orders. Funding has been reinstated. They are still starving agencies they're trying to kill, and they're still harassing federal employees, but people have been offered their jobs back. So in spite of the authoritarianism that we're seeing, it feels, if I could put it this way, a little like they're being experienced, they're being authoritarian, curious. And.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah.

[Melanie Stansberry]

And seeing what they can get away with. But they haven't, like, transgressed the boundaries to such a degree yet where we shut it all down. And I will say this. We are prepared to shut it all down. And I think the American people need to hear that. People want to see that Democrats are fighting back, but, you know, we want to. We're not going to cross the Rubicon until we have to. And because. Because once you do, you know, you set a precedent for future. The future of this country. So. But we're ready to shut it all down if we have to.

[Jim Acosta]

Wow. Well, Congresswoman Stansbury, and I think that's the point. I think it always works to me, especially with Donald Trump and I know this all too well to stand up to the bully. And I think sending the message that accountability is coming is not such a bad thing. And maybe it'll make them think twice and just, you know, hey, accountability is 2020. You can do what you want right now, but 2026 is going to come whether you like it or not.

[Melanie Stansberry]

Yeah. I mean, also, again, just looking at the signs, you know, just a little while ago, one of the House moderates who said he would never vote for Medicaid cuts was like, actually, it wasn't that bad, even though it's the worst in history. And that is a clear sign that these guys know they're going to lose the midterms. And there's also talk happening that Trump and his legal team know that if they lose, they're going to be held legally accountable by Congress. And so they know what's going to, they know what's coming. And so they're just going to try to get everything they, they can right now and get away with everything. But they're not getting away with it, and we're not going to let them.

[Jim Acosta]

Excellent. Well, Congresswoman Stansbury, I know we had to fight through some tech issues, but it'll make us just perfect for next time. We'll just do this, jump into this and do it next time. But I, I hope it doesn't ruin the fun or dissuade you in any way from joining me again, but I really appreciate the time. Great conversation. And it is, is, it's heartening to see people fighting back. And, and having a fighter up there is, is very important. Having fighters up there is very important.

[Melanie Stansberry]

Well, there's a lot of us. And, you know, that's the other thing. Not everybody has the megaphone that some of the more out there members have, but every single member of the Democratic caucus is fighting back and using their voices as strongly as they can. And I've been sitting in a tiny little room on the third floor of the Capitol, you know, for 12 hours, and there are still members there waiting to try to fight back against this bill. So we're all there in the good fight.

[Jim Acosta]

All right, well, appreciate it. And you stay in it. Congresswoman Stansberry, thank you so much for your time. Really appreciate it. Good to see you.

[Melanie Stansberry]

Good to see you, too.

[Jim Acosta]

All right, take care. That was Congresswoman Stansberry, and I'm so glad we got through those tech issues. Since we've been talking about this big, beautiful bill, I do want to get my friend and Washington journalist Julie Grace Brufke, on very quickly, just to give us an update on, on where things stand with the bill because it does help to have news, it does help to have information, it does help to have facts and data and a sense as to where things are going. And we did.

[Katie Fang]

Hey.

[Jim Acosta]

Hey, Julie. Grace, good to see you. How are you? Are you good? Are you in the congressional booth up there?

[Julie Grace Brufke]

I am. It's kind of giving hostage situations with the background. Sorry about that.

[Jim Acosta]

It absolutely is, but that's okay. And speaking of being held hostage, what is happening with this bill right now?

[Julie Grace Brufke]

So right now, while we're waiting for members to get back from the White House with the holdouts and they've kind of been at a standstill, leadership still planning on pushing forward with this vote. So they're kind of, if it fails, they're going to just kind of let these members the current plan at least is to let these members to hear from their constituents back home and hope that that ramps up pressure. So we'll see if Trump flipped any minds at this White House meeting, which they should be back from any minute. But yeah, right now the current plan is bring it to the floor.

[Jim Acosta]

Interesting. And so could that happen tonight? Do we think that's going to happen tonight?

[Julie Grace Brufke]

It could happen late tonight. So a lot could still change. I mean, last I talked to a lot of conservatives earlier today and they were still pretty frustrated with things. Leadership's frustrated because they feel like conservative conservatives haven't really made their goals clear to them on what they really want. But the conservative flank there is they're not thrilled with the salt deal that the New Yorkers in California members got there so they could something in return.

[Jim Acosta]

And that's where the, I mean, because this happened in the last Trump tax bill, where people's ability to deduct their state and local income taxes got severely limited. And some of the members from those areas would like to see some of that tax rate relief come back for those people who pay those high property taxes. And people in other red states in the south and so on are like, no, no, no, we're not going to do that. But the, but the bottom line is, and I talked about this with Congresswoman Stansberry, is that this bill, according to the Congressional Budget Office, would explode the deficit and throw a lot of millions of Americans off of healthcare and Medicaid and then potentially jeopardize healthcare coverage under Medicare. And I have to think that that is giving some members the willies right now.

[Julie Grace Brufke]

Well, moderates are definitely worried about changes to Medicare for sure. I've talked to a number on that front. I mean, we heard Trump at that meeting yesterday say no changes to Medicare. He was really adamant about that. But there has been some talk about work requirements for that to kind of get the Freedom Caucus over the finish line. But I mean, between the salt stuff and the Medicare changes, I think there are certain provisions that'll probably end up being stripped out in the Senate. And so that'll be a whole other animal if they can get this thing through the House.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah. Well, all right, so it could happen tonight. That's the bottom line.

[Julie Grace Brufke]

It could. So that's like they're heading at the moment, but it's been a wildly long Rules Committee hearing where they've been trying to figure out these changes and a lot of unsold members. So it's kind of the wild west.

[Jim Acosta]

Up here right now, and it has to go to the Senate. And there are a lot of senators on the Republican side who are not happy about a lot of this stuff. And so the sausage making is going to continue. But in the meantime, you, you'll, the pizzas, the boxes of pizzas will be coming in, the, the crates of Red Bull, I guess, and so on. Diet Coke at the very least.

[Julie Grace Brufke]

No shortage. I'm kind of impressed by Virginia Fox's stamina of 1am until a couple minutes ago.

[Jim Acosta]

We're all impressed by all of the stamina up there. Well, great to see. Julie Grace, thank you for the update. Appreciate it. Good to see you.

[Julie Grace Brufke]

You, too.

[Jim Acosta]

All right, take care. All right, that's my friend, Julie Grace Bruffy, and she. So it sounds as though they may, may do try to do this tonight, which would be very interesting. Trump does not like it when these, I can tell you this from a, from just my experience covering him. He is not like when these things drag out, he does not have the attention span to, to, to want to be a part of this as it drags out. And so my guess is over the next several hours, you're going to see some arm twisting of those members in the Northeast to get them to go along with this. And, and you know, a lot of these members may be digging their own political graves because if you touch Medicare and Medicaid, I mean, I remember because when I covered Obamacare, you know, they used to hold up those signs, keep your government hands off Medicare. People not understanding that Medicare is government health care. It is one of the most toxic political things that a member of Congress can do. So I just want to mention that a Couple other things just to mention up before we sign off today. Thank you for everybody, for sticking around and helping us, you know, get through these tech issues. Sometimes we have to workshop this. I have to remind everybody, I talked about this yesterday with Olivia Troy and Michael Fanone. But on Monday, June 2, if you live in the Washington D.C. area or if you want to travel across the country, I'm not going to hold you back. We're going to be having another live town hall, this time at the, the Lincoln theater in Washington D.C. it's a great old theater, very historic. And we're inviting federal workers to come. People who are affected by these Doge cuts, I mean, people who work at usaid. There are freaked out artists in the arts community here that rely on some government funding. They're being affected by all of this. And you know, we're opening up the, the, the doors to hear from you. So if you live in the Washington, D.C. area. And I also want to talk to people, people who've been affected by these ICE raids and these mass deportations. So we're working very hard to line up a really good program for Monday, June 2nd. The other thing finally I want to do is I want to remember Congressman Jerry Connolly, Democrat from my home district in Northern Virginia. I grew up in Fairfax county, born and raised Fairfax county in the house. I was born at the Fairfax County Hospital, went to Annandale School, high school, went to James Madison. My mom's parents are buried at Arlington National Cemetery. My roots run deep there. With the Washington Post, remembering Gerry Connolly, a Democratic Congressman who played a large part in Northern Virginia's transformation from a bedroom community into a thriving technology hub. And it's so true. He helped preside over the expansion of the metro system through the Washington D.C. area. And Gerry Connolly is one of those nuts and bolts, fill the potholes, fix the roads, get the schools going type of members of Congress that everybody needs across the country. And I have to say, you know, even though I'm a Virginian, he, he would come in with that Boston accent. I loved it to death. I thought he was terrific and just always enjoyed every interaction with him. He was just a very, very kind and warm hearted person. And you know, whenever we would do an interview at my old place, you know, we would have these moments just before we went on the air where we would talk via the satellite link. And he always was nice enough to remember that I came from Fairfax county and then I went to Annandale High School. And, and so it was always good to talk to him, he was just that kind of a person. And sometimes you think, oh, politicians, whatever. No, Jerry was the, was, was one of those. He worked hard for the people in that district. And that is what is so vitally important that we have right now. Obviously, people like Melanie Stansberry are, are terrific as well, but you need the guys who get in there and, and the gals who get in there and get their hands dirty with the nitty gritty of government work. And Northern Virginia is just a terrific part of the country and I'm very proud to be from there. So I wanted to say that, and I do want to say one final farewell, and that is because I grew up on this TV show. A Farewell to Norm on Cheers. George went, this was so sad. I saw this yesterday right before my show. And he died at the age of 76. Of course, he played Nam Peterson. Speaking of Boston, he played Nam Peterson, as Cliff Laven might say. And the New York Times reports we knew him above all from his entrances. Throwing open the door of the show's namesake tavern, Cheers, and greeted with a hearty altogether. Now, Norm, remember that, Norm. And then Diane would say, norman And I love that. The New York Times put together some of the lists, some of the one liners, the one liners at the Cheers writing staff I've produced for him for Norm helped fill in the picture of who Norm was all about. And you know, it would be Sam or Coach who would ask, what would you like, Norm? And Norm would say, a reason to live. Keep them coming. What are you up to, Norm? My ears. Norm would say, what's happening, Norm? And this is my favorite one. It's a dog eat dog world Sammy. And I'm wearing milk bone underwear. That was Norm. That was my favorite Normism on Cheers. Loved that show growing up. And for somebody here who occasionally wears milk bone underwear, I know that feeling all too well. I will say cheers to all of you. Pour one out for Norm. Pour one out for the wonderful Jerry Connolly. My thanks to Representative Melanie Stansberry of New Mexico. Really appreciated having her on. Wow. She gave me a lot of optimism. She has a fighting spirit and man, oh man, is she eloquent and just able to dive into these dense political issues and talk in a way that people can understand. Really appreciate that. And of course, the fabulous Katie Feng. I'm so excited that she's on Substack. I'm going to bother her all the time and so I hope she doesn't mind that. And my thanks to Julie Grace Brufke as well for that update up on Capitol. Thanks, everybody for watching. Really appreciate it. Thanks for the time. Still reporting from Washington, I'm Jim Acosta. Have a good evening, everybody. Take care. Bye bye.