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The Jim Acosta Show
Kimmel Canceled and Trump Media Takeover with MSNBC's Ali Velshi and Pro-Democracy Advocate Garry Kasparov
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- [00:00]
Gary Kasparov
Foreign.
- [00:06]
Jim Acosta
Welcome to the Jim Acosta show. And it's another day that ends in Y and Donald Trump's assault on American democracy. We have entered a new era of snowflake fascism, ladies and gentlemen, in the US where the snowflakes on the far right whine and complain every time somebody hurts their feelings. And the weak need corporate executives who only know how to smooch Trump's but simply go along with the dear leader's demands. The latest example, the canceling of Jimmy Kimmel's late night TV show. All Kimmel did was call out MAGA for attempting to capitalize on the death of Charlie Kirk, which of course they did. My first guest this hour is MSNBC anchor Ali Velshi, who anchors his Velshi program on the weekends. Ali, pretty extraordinary. 24 hours, disturbing. 24 hours in network television and American news media. What's your sense of all this? And I mean, I think you approach this from a business standpoint too. Business news standpoint too. We were talking about this before we got going. I don't remember a time like this in our industry.
- [01:08]
Ali Velshi
No. And the business part of it is important to understand because when you look at broadcast news and broadcast networks, you know, most people probably know this from the areas they live in. The network doesn't own the local station. The local station wants to either survive or is part of a group that wants to merge with someone else. So this is sort of asymmetric pressure that the government is putting on both local stations and networks to either threaten that they're going to lose their licenses or that the local affiliates will threaten to not carry certain shows. So it achieves this remarkable end right. It's just one short of actually the government going in and canceling things themselves. There are two parts of the First Amendment. This breaches both of it. The First Amendment mentions freedom of the press. And if you don't think Jimmy Kimmel or Stephen Colbert are members of the press, it also protects free speech for everyone else in the country. Like the First Amendment goes out of its way to specifically say press, religion, the gathering of people in protest and people. So this is a really complex set of things that are going on except for the fact, Jim, that, that they wrote it all down in Project 2025. And the part about media that was written was written by Brendan Carr, who is now the, the chair of the fcc. So on one hand unprecedented, on the other hand they said they were going to do it. Not a lot of people read that 922 page. Hard to read Tome but like so much else of what's going on, it was written down. They said they're going to do it, and now they're doing it.
- [02:42]
Jim Acosta
Yeah. And, Ali, I mean, you and I have been in this business for a while. I don't recall an FCC coming down like this ever. The way we've. We've seen things go the last several months. And so it is intentional. It's right out of Project 2025. And Brendan Carr is acting like essentially Trump's media henchmen. But let's. I want to get to Carr in a moment, but let's at least play what Jimmy Kimmel said and talk about on the other side, because I think this has been twisted around by the far right and then just ABC in the, in the stations responded to it.
- [03:13]
Ali Velshi
Yeah. New lows over the weekend with the MAGA gang desperately trying to characterize this kid who murdered Charlie Kirk as anything other than one of them and everything they can to score political points from it.
- [03:28]
Jim Acosta
Yeah. Now, I mean, Ali, I don't know what your take is on it. My, I, I said this last week that there was a rush on the part of people in MAGA to basically pigeonhole the murderer as somebody who was trans or from the left and so on. I mean, it was before the facts even came in. I think that's what Kimmel was saying there. And then, I mean, we should also note on social media, he was saying that this is. That this is wrong, what happened to Charlie Kirk.
- [03:53]
Ali Velshi
The murder of Charlie Kirk. Right. We're very clear about murder. We're very clear about the fact that whether you agree with people or not, nobody needs to. Needs to be killed in this country. In fact, you and I would probably agree that with all the people who say this is not who we are, I wonder whether this is actually who we are, because there are a lot of attempted assassinations or assassinations, and in the United States. That said, you can wholly condemn them. You can even wholly condemn Jimmy Kimmel if you want to, except we live in America. So your choices are not to watch him, not to carry him, make a business decision about him. The idea that Donald Trump and Brendan Carr and others have the degree of influence they have over what seem to be business decisions having to do with our First Amendment rights, which go back a long way, by the way. I remind people, John Adams defended the British in, in court. Benjamin Franklin wrote Poor Richard's Almanac, which was a. It was satire. Right. This is actually who we're supposed to be, based on our Constitution. You, you can say things that others can find disagreeable, and the government cannot impose its will upon you. People can. The free market can. You can have no friends, your family can leave you. But the fact is, the government your protect. The First Amendment is your protection from the government's overreach. And, and now we've got an FCC chair who's doing Donald Trump's bidding as the FCC chair. So you're doing the government's bidding in that job through threats and innuendo. Be one thing if there were hearings and there were arguments made as to why this merger shouldn't take place. That's not what the FCC is doing. They're just operating as the censor board.
- [05:24]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, and Donald Trump is the snowflake in chief. He cannot take a joke. I mean, he was complaining to reporters on Air Force One as he was leaving the UK and he was making. And I have some of the comments here. He says, I read someplace that the networks were 97% against me. Again, 97% negative, and yet I won and easily won all seven swing states. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. He goes on to say, that's something that should be talked about for licensing, too. When you have a network, you have evening shows. All they do is hit Trump. All they do. He says they're licensed. They're not allowed to do that. He actually said that they're not allowed to do that. He goes, they're an arm of the Democratic Party. They are allowed to do that. I mean, you, we're both students of this, of this craft, of this business. I mean, Jay Leno used to go after Bill Clinton every night on the Tonight show over Monica Lewinsky. My God, this is something that's happened to presidents from both parties for decades.
- [06:18]
Ali Velshi
And you should, you should, you should love it and kiss your TV screen every night that our law permits it. You may find none of this funny. You may find it inappropriate. You, you may find it politically distinct. All of those things are what you must love about the protections we have in this country. Because if you don't do that, you become another type of country. You become another type of society that we decided through revolution we do not wish to be. I mean, this is the First Amendment of the United States Constitution. Can you imagine that? This was top of mind for these guys 250 years ago.
- [06:51]
Jim Acosta
Thank goodness.
- [06:52]
Ali Velshi
That important. So the decision here is not to like it, not to endorse it, not to support it, not to like Jimmy Kimmel, not to agree with Jimmy Kimmel, whatever. It doesn't none of this matters. It's all besides the point. It's that they have a right to do it. And as the President of the United States, your job, if you're adhering to the Constitution, is to make sure that you agree they have a right to do it. Distasteful though it is. I don't know why anybody watches this guy. It's not interesting, but it is his right.
- [07:16]
Jim Acosta
It is his right. And you know, we were just talking about Brendan Carr earlier, who was one of the architects of Project 2025. He's the FCC chairman and he was on this podcast. I mean, what he's doing on a podcast with Benny Johnson, who is one of the ridiculous people of the far right. I'm sorry, I'm just going to say it, I mean, is beyond me. But he gives away the game here in this clip I want to show because he basically admits this is what they're doing inside the Trump administration. They're pressuring the stations, they're pressuring the networks to get rid of critics. Let's, let's watch.
- [07:48]
Ali Velshi
Frankly, I think that it's, it's, it's really sort of past time that a lot of these licensed broadcasters themselves push.
- [07:55]
Gary Kasparov
Back on Comcast and Disney and say, listen, we are going to preempt, we.
- [07:59]
Ali Velshi
Are not going to run Kimmel anymore until you straighten this out. Because we, we licensed broadcaster are running the possibility of fines or license revocation.
- [08:08]
Gary Kasparov
From the FCC if we continue to run content that ends up being a.
- [08:13]
Ali Velshi
Pattern of news distortion. So I think again, Disney needs to see some change here. But the individual licensed stations that are taking their content, it's time for them to step up and say this, you know, garbage to the extent that that's.
- [08:27]
Gary Kasparov
What comes down the pipe in the.
- [08:28]
Ali Velshi
Future isn't something that we think serves the needs of our local communities. But, but this sort of status quo is obviously not, not acceptable where we are.
- [08:35]
Gary Kasparov
Yeah.
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Jim Acosta
Al Ali, he is telling ABC what.
- [08:38]
Ali Velshi
To do there and he's telling the potential claimants, the, the independently owned stations, the station what to do. And he's warning them that if you don't sort of take my suggestion that then your, your needs to merge because the two biggest, two of the biggest holders of, of stations are, are trying to merge. So he's warning them that that decision will come before me. And if you don't take up my suggestion, you'll remember before ABC decided to, whatever language they're using with Jimmy Kimmel preemptively preempting him indefinitely, it was One of the local station groups that says, we are not going to carry this literally Brennan Carr's words being carried out. So keep this in mind. Maybe you like the logo change at Cracker Barrel, or you didn't and the President didn't, and he chimed in on that. But the president has nothing to do with. The federal government, had nothing to do with licensing Cracker Barrel. So that's just a commercial decision. Cracker Barrel can decide. We don't want to have the MAGA hatred, so we'll keep our logo the way. Whatever. This is not Brendan Carr yakking about this on a podcast. He actually is in charge of whether these people get their mergers or keep their licenses or don't. So that's not just some guy chewing the fat. That's the guy who's in charge of whether you get to do business on an ongoing basis. Basically telling you this is how it's going to unfold.
- [09:57]
Jim Acosta
Yeah. And I mean, Brendan Carr almost sounds like, you know, like he's part of the mob or something.
- [10:04]
Ali Velshi
Right.
- [10:04]
Gary Kasparov
That's trusting.
- [10:05]
Ali Velshi
It's an insinuated threat. Not even that insinuated. He just kind of said it.
- [10:08]
Jim Acosta
Nice network you got. Pretty clearly Nice network you got there. Be shame if something happened.
- [10:12]
Ali Velshi
Yes.
- [10:13]
Jim Acosta
You know, that kind of stuff.
- [10:14]
Ali Velshi
I mean, and look at the chilling effect beyond that is what becomes the problem. Because in this moment, bold journalists and satirists and political commentators need to be their boldest. Right. People forget that while you're. You're a famous podcaster and you've got this great newsletter and I'm on your show. You and I knew each other back in the day. We were. We overlapped at cnn. And you were bold then and you got heat for it then. But generally speaking, you were pretty sure you weren't going to lose your job over the fact that you were. You were holding power to account. Because that's actually our job description.
- [10:49]
Jim Acosta
Yeah.
- [10:50]
Ali Velshi
Now you've softened that. Now all of us have to think two and three times, not just about whether our employers will back us up. But. But will they. Will. Will they come for us? What does they mean, an audit or, you know, whatever it is the government can use against you. Will they bring the might of the government against you by holding power to account, whether you be a lawyer, a prosecutor, a judge, a journalist, a satirist, a political opponent. That's the chill that starts to set in. That is very dangerous for democracy and very hard to recover from.
- [11:18]
Jim Acosta
I think you hit the nail right on the head, Ali. And my Producer Matt was putting up on screen the chiron that says, you know, Kimmel canceled, but Brian Kilmeade is at Fox. The one exception to all this is you. Basically, if you're on Fox, you can say anything that you want. Go and kill me. The other day was homeless people killing homeless people.
- [11:36]
Ali Velshi
It wasn't a thesis about, hey, this would be an interesting way to solve this. Literally just laid out there. We can give them injection, injections.
- [11:43]
Jim Acosta
Incredible.
- [11:44]
Ali Velshi
Homeless people. I mean, what a thing. And I. I'm Jim. I gotta tell you, I'm one of these guys who thinks everybody deserves a chance to explain themselves and apologize. And he did and move on. But nobody else seems to get that. That privilege. Right?
- [11:58]
Jim Acosta
No, he did say something.
- [12:01]
Ali Velshi
I don't know what was going through Kilmeade's mind when he said that. I'm glad that he apologized. It was a terrible thing to say, but again, prepared to say, you know what? You talk for a living, you might make some mistakes from time to time. This is not mistakes. We're not punishing people for mistakes. We're punishing people for their. Their views and their expression of those views, which, again, as an immigrant to this country, as a person whose parents grew up in apartheid South Africa where they could lock you in jail without any charge. This all seems very spooky to me.
- [12:27]
Jim Acosta
Yeah. And I will tell people, as the son of a Cuban immigrant, I've been to Cuba a few times, watch state television coming out of Cuba and see what that looks like. I remember when Fidel Castro died and I was down there after his death. And the media at the time was referring to his death as the physical disappearance of Fidel Castro.
- [12:48]
Ali Velshi
Right.
- [12:48]
Jim Acosta
Do we want a situation in this country where we get so bananas, like North Korean state television, North Korean state media, that we can't even call them like we see him anymore. It's like George Orwell, 1984. Shit. It's just Iran or Hungary's going in that direction.
- [13:05]
Ali Velshi
And here's the interesting part of this. Brendan Carr said in that clip you ran that, you know, our stations have to say, we don't want this garbage. It's not in the interests of our local community. Your example is perfect. It's actually in the interests of your local community to have lots of information out there and have people be allowed to change the channel on their remote and. And be able to triangulate and figure out what's true and what's not true. Because if they're telling you that Castro's death is Just his physical absence. You need to be able to hear somebody who thinks otherwise and be able to use your brain to be a critical thinker. When you take out flow of information, you reduce the ability to be critical thinker. So it is actually in your interest as a local news consumer to not have the government making determinations as to what your news will tell you.
- [13:50]
Jim Acosta
Yes. And what Donald Trump hates about the media, what he hates about us, is that we point out his bullshit and his lies all the time. This is what he said about Jimmy Kimmel. I mean to that point, this is what he said about Jimmy Kimmel.
- [14:01]
Ali Velshi
Vice President Vance said that free speech is under attack in the uk.
- [14:06]
Jim Acosta
Do you agree with him?
- [14:08]
Ali Velshi
And Prime Minister, we saw the dismissal of a very well known chat show host in America last night. Mr. Kimmel, is free speech more under.
- [14:17]
Jim Acosta
Attack in Britain or America? Well, Jimmy Kimmel was fired because he.
- [14:21]
Gary Kasparov
Had bad ratings more than anything else. And he said a horrible thing about a great gentleman known as Charlie Kirk.
- [14:26]
Jim Acosta
And Jimmy Kimmel is not a talented person. He had very bad ratings and they.
- [14:30]
Ali Velshi
Should have fired him a long time ago.
- [14:32]
Jim Acosta
So, you know, you can call that free speech or not. He was fired for lack of talent. I mean, Ali, I think it's very clear that he was, he was fired because of pressure from the Trump administration. Donald Trump has been complaining about Jimmy Kimmel and Stephen Colbert for months now. As a matter of fact, he put out a truth social post saying that he wants Jimmy Fallon and Seth Meyers to go next. So he, he's going down his list. I think this, it's pretty clear what's happening with the administration. They've got their hit list. These are the people they want to knock off the air. And, and he's working his way down that list.
- [15:07]
Gary Kasparov
Right?
- [15:07]
Ali Velshi
And by the way, there are only a few of these network level satirists and comedians. Right after that we're like, this doesn't end. We've seen this in history. It doesn't end with just a handful of people or a few people or a couple judges or a couple prosecutors. Just doesn't end. So that's number one. Number two, the President also has First Amendment protections and is able like has the right to say that he doesn't think Jimmy Kimmel's funny and he's bad and comment on his ratings. Any of us in the broadcast or cable industry fully understand we've got challenges with ratings. They're business challenges. We're in a declining industry. All of that can be true. It's that line between the government willing something to happen, it happening, and the rest of us buying the excuse for why it happened. Right. If you, if you want to just accept the fact that Kimmel and Colbert might ultimately are canceled because, because of, for business reasons, fine. It would be better if you knew the full story and you were able to say, hey, I don't agree with that. I might not like these guys, but I really don't want my government getting involved. And you know this, Jim, because you've covered a lot of administrations, as have I. No administration has ever not called to complain about.
- [16:16]
Jim Acosta
They always complain in this country and.
- [16:18]
Ali Velshi
Every other country, by the way that I cover. They all called to complain. And that's okay. I will take the complaint. There are times that I've gone to the White House to have a conversation because they've complained so much. I've said, let's go through the books together, let's compare the story. And we're all smarter for doing that, for that level engagement. But you don't get to tell me as a journalist what I can and cannot say, despite how distasteful what I can and cannot say actually is, once we agree that that's okay. And your immigrant parents and my immigrant parents understand this, right? That if you're close enough to where things were really bad, you understand what you're giving up. My fear is that we're too far away from it in America for people to realize it's death by a thousand cuts. Democracy doesn't just disappear one night. Your vote doesn't just go away.
- [17:00]
Jim Acosta
Right?
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Ali Velshi
It's this.
- [17:01]
Jim Acosta
It, it's being chipped away little by little. And I mean to, to the point about Trump complaining about, I mean, he complained about me to the point where they took my press pathway and they continue to complain about me until, well, you know, now I'm here. But Ali, the thing is, is that one of the reasons why we have to have a constitutional right to free speech and freedom of the press is so we can call out the President's lies. When Trump earlier today in the uk he was saying that the US is taking in trillions of dollars in tariffs. He also said inflation is virtually non existent right now and we're taking in trillions of dollars of tariffs. I looked this up. Yahoo Finance says According to the US treasury, total tariff collections during 2025 so far this, up until about September have amounted to $142 billion right now they may get a couple of trillion over 10 years or something like that.
- [17:50]
Ali Velshi
Right.
- [17:51]
Jim Acosta
But not Trillions.
- [17:53]
Ali Velshi
Right. And by the way, just keep in mind, they're taking that money in. Your prices are also getting higher. So, you know, it's not a clean. It's not like, hey, my government took in $1 trillion and then I got a $1 trillion. You know, we got a rebate that was distributed to, to Americans. You're not getting a windfall from it. In fact, inflation's at 2.9%. Inflation is pushing up now. We got these interest rate cuts, which the President wanted, interestingly enough. He replaces. He puts his guy in, in the empty seat on the Fed. And the vote to reduce interest rates by a quarter of a Percentage point was 11 to 1. His one guy wanted it to be a bigger cut so he could get. I guess he can ultimately control the Fed, too, but he's got to actually put five more people in, six more people in before he can do it.
- [18:37]
Jim Acosta
And he's trying to control the Fed. He's going to the Supreme Court now to get rid of Lisa Cook on.
- [18:41]
Ali Velshi
The basis of something that. Misconduct. Most people interpret misconduct at the Fed to be something you did on the job as opposed to a mortgage application from beforehand. Lots of questions about whether there's any. She hasn't been charged with anything. Just to be clear. Anything. Right. Anything Charged but not adjudicated. There still wouldn't be a case because you're presumed innocent until you're found guilty in America. She's been charged. Hasn't been charged, hasn't been adjudicated. And he's asking the Supreme Court for the right to fire her. And you know what, Jim? They might give it to him.
- [19:12]
Jim Acosta
They might give it to him.
- [19:13]
Ali Velshi
About which we should all worry, because that also goes back to the Founding Fathers and why the Federal Reserve is an independent protected body, the sort of which the entire world has modeled their central banks around.
- [19:23]
Jim Acosta
Yeah. And a viewer just very sharply pointed out that Trump has also been saying that drug prices are going down by like 1000%. He just makes. I mean, this is the thing. And this is why that would make them free. Yeah.
- [19:37]
Ali Velshi
And they give you cash with your drugs.
- [19:40]
Jim Acosta
And this is why we need Jimmy Kimmel. This is why we need Stephen Colbert, because his lies are so ridiculous. They are, they, they, they, they're crying out for mockery.
- [19:49]
Ali Velshi
Yes. And satire has, for all of our history, all over the world, for all of global history, been a thing that has been very effective for political accountability. Right. What's your whole, your whole thing, Jim Acosta, holds people accountable. That's your entire Story of, of your, your later journalistic life.
- [20:06]
Jim Acosta
I also have a dog.
- [20:07]
Ali Velshi
That's what we do. You don't have to like us for it. That's right, approve of it. And if enough people don't like me about it, I'll get the message. But it can't be the government involved in that.
- [20:17]
Jim Acosta
That's, that's right. That's exactly right. Now I, I, I'm, MSNBC is going to be mad at me, speaking of networks, if I don't mention that you have a, you and the other fine folks there have a live town hall coming up, a live event coming up. It's, it's been a cool event in the years past. This is going to be even bigger and better and you got more people.
- [20:35]
Ali Velshi
We're doing this October 11th, the Hammerstein Ballroom in Manhattan. It's going to be all of us. And I would say the best part about it, we did in Brooklyn last year is that in these tough times and we are much more confused and we're struggling a lot more this year than we even were at this time last year, the coming together thing, the community thing does help. It does be mad all the time. Right. Even though we're really fighting for democracy, we need camaraderie. We need to talk to people. And so this will be a great, we're talking about democracy, obviously, because that's the main issue. But it's this great opportunity because people trust us, Jim, as you know, and we owe them a debt. If you trust us, then we owe you a debt to talk to you and to help you roadmap your way out of this thing. So I'm actually pretty excited about it. You know, normally the news gets me down these days. I gotta, I gotta be fair. But this idea that we're going to be talking to people, you know, real people out there living their lives, is, is really good.
- [21:28]
Jim Acosta
I find it very healthy. I find it to be. I had, I've had a couple town halls with this experience I'm doing now. I'm in Dallas for a separate event this evening where I'll be talking to some folks. And it, it gives you a lot to think about, honestly. And, and we can't just be in these little studios or in my case, a hotel room or living room and not have that kind of connection.
- [21:46]
Ali Velshi
So we're all in our bubbles. And, and for those people who criticize the media for being in a, in, they're not wrong. I mean, we, we, the circles we run in.
- [21:55]
Jim Acosta
Yeah.
- [21:55]
Ali Velshi
Can be a little limiting. So if we don't get out there and talk to people and meet them where they are, we will also get the message wrong. So I, I always, I never don't feel energized when I'm, I'm out with a crowd of people who, who live out in the real world do watch us and often have very good criticisms about how we can do a better job.
- [22:11]
Jim Acosta
No, it's so true. And, and to your point earlier about just go around the world and look at totalitarian governments and, and what happens with the media there. Another person who has some, some thoughts on this subject is the great Gary Kasparov. I can bring him in while you're with us.
- [22:26]
Ali Velshi
Ali, my old neighbor Gary. Gary and I have had this conversation many times. And just like I said to Jim, Gary, for many Americans, the concept of not having democracy is too far in the past for some people to feel as alarmed by it as they do. But that's the beauty of, of you being on here. So I'm going to hand it over to you because it's not too distant for you.
- [22:48]
Gary Kasparov
I can only add, Ali, that Trump administration is doing great job to make me feel home.
- [22:55]
Ali Velshi
There you go, my friend. Thank you. Jim, great to see you as well.
- [22:59]
Jim Acosta
Good to see Ally. Thanks a lot. Appreciate it. Great stuff. Talk to you soon. Gary, great to see you, sir. And if we don't laugh, we'll cry. I guess that that's the whole part of this. And I guess that does tie back to Jimmy Kimmel. And Gary, I mean, of course everybody knows you as the great chess master and pro democracy advocate, but you're also very active on social media. And one of the posts that I really just we have to talk about before we get this thing going, you pointed out that one of the very first things that Vladimir Putin did was get rid of a puppet show that was mocking him. Do I have that correct?
- [23:36]
Gary Kasparov
Instantly, he did two things. One is he reinstated Soviet anthem just to show his aspirations about future restoration of Russian Soviet empire. And he killed quickly the dolls. That was a great show.
- [23:50]
Jim Acosta
I remember it was like a Russian Muppet.
- [23:53]
Gary Kasparov
So vehemently, I mean they, they, they're making just jokes about Yeltsin and Yeltsin administration. Nothing happened the first thing Putin did. So it's the again, it's, it's, it's, it's the beginning. I mean naturally, America today is not Russia in 2000. So yes, this 250 years of, of traditions, Declaration of independence and before that also the respect rule of law. Russia didn't have these traditions, but it's a playbook. So I just on, on, on my substack, the next move, I just published a couple of hours in the article, I saw how Russia killed media freedom, because if you do nothing, it will happen. And I think a lot of people here, they still have some kind of a belief. Oh, we have Constitution. It's ironclad. No, Constitution is a piece of paper in as good as you're willing to use the provisions of the Constitution to fight for your rights. And it to me that this is, this, it's again, I wouldn't call it a panic, but it's it. The forces of democracy are in disarray.
- [24:54]
Jim Acosta
Well, and as we've seen from the Supreme Court, they're willing to give Trump a blank check.
- [24:58]
Gary Kasparov
And so. Yeah, but you have to fight. Look, it's, this is. If you don't fight, you know, they'll grab more and more space.
- [25:04]
Jim Acosta
That's right.
- [25:06]
Gary Kasparov
You know, it's, Trump doesn't have, you know, just the massive majority in the House or in the Senate, but he's just, you know, he's terrorizing people. It's a behavior and they getting, you know, more and more emboldened because of the weakness. Weakness. Appeasement is the way to make the other side stronger. Yeah.
- [25:25]
Jim Acosta
And so when you see abc, when you see these networks kowtowing, it's the exact wrong thing.
- [25:31]
Gary Kasparov
It's not them. You know, you saw the, the, the, the, the law firms, you saw universities again. It's step by step.
- [25:37]
Ali Velshi
It's.
- [25:37]
Gary Kasparov
This is, as Ali said, is death by thousand cuts. It doesn't happen overnight. I warned, I warned Americans in one of my articles. The, it's, it's a series of three now. The third one is coming out called the Putinization of America. That dictatorship doesn't appear overnight. It's very rare. You have tanks on the streets. It's a slow process, a process of slow death. So this is one law, another one, maybe here, comma, here. You know, just, it's a full stop this paragraph being removed. You, it's slow process. Actually. Trump is, is moving much faster. And I think the, the, the, the real danger is that.
- [26:10]
Jim Acosta
Moving faster than Putin.
- [26:12]
Gary Kasparov
Yeah, it's actually faster than Putin because it's, this is. He, he has to manage to control more levels of power before 2026 elections. In my next article, which is being released soon in the Atlantic, I'm saying that the 2026 elections is in grave danger. It will be free, but most likely not fair. Trump can't afford to lose the House. That's. And also, we know Trump doesn't lose elections. Trump doesn't accept bad numbers.
- [26:38]
Jim Acosta
He was saying that today. He was saying again that he won the 2020 election.
- [26:41]
Gary Kasparov
He has his own numbers and, and nobody, nobody around him corrects him. You remember he once said, I, you know, ended seven wars or six wars. How many wars?
- [26:50]
Jim Acosta
He said it again today. Seven wars. Yeah.
- [26:52]
Gary Kasparov
Conflict between Albania and Azerbaijan. Not Armenia, Albania. So he said it once and he said it twice. Actually Britain, he said it three times, which means no one around him dares to say, Mr. President, you know what? This is actually Armenia. No, no, no. The numbers that Trump declares, announces, those are the real numbers. And we remember on January 6, he tried to overturn the results of the election, but he didn't have control at that, at the time. Now, he will have everything. Not just, you know, the hoodlum on the streets or just, you know, the rubble or just, you know, mob. He will have FBI, doj, ICE and the. If people think that, oh, it's, it's we. It never happened here. That's not an argument. Never happened here. You know, just. You should forget about it. With Trump, everything happens first time. And anything that is not codified, sometimes even if it's qualified, Trump will try to over or overrun and ask the question will palm Bondi, Cash Patel and alike will follow Trump orders or constitutional provisions. You know, we saw Cash Patel on the floor at the hearings.
- [28:06]
Jim Acosta
Yeah.
- [28:06]
Gary Kasparov
Insulting sitting senators. I mean, sitting senator disgrace and buffoon. That. What. What does it tell you? It's audience of one. He doesn't care about Senate. He's talking to one. One man. The boss. He wants to the audience of one. Happy. Because that's how he protects his job. And that tells you that the balance of power already shifted. So the Senate is, is, is totally paralyzed as, as the House. And it. More and more power is being concentrated in the hands of, of the, of the executive. And what's happened yesterday, it's a clearing illustration that they are not going to stop short of eliminating any sign of opposition prior to 2026 elections.
- [28:46]
Jim Acosta
Yeah.
- [28:47]
Gary Kasparov
And the numbers are looking bad. More and more people are shifting sides. We hear people say, oh, I've regretted I voted for Trump. Which means they will need even more pressure.
- [28:56]
Jim Acosta
Yeah. Oh, that's exactly why Gary, he's talking about getting rid of mail in balloting. That's exactly why he wants to redraw the congressional maps. He sees the polling data and they told him he's even. He's even going south on immigration, which is supposed to be a bread and butter issue. So he knows what's coming, what's coming down the pike, and he's trying to stop it before it happens. I, I totally agree.
- [29:17]
Gary Kasparov
That's why, that's why I believe the Democrats must fight. Yes, I understand the consequences of shutdown, government shutdown, but this state has been used against us, against us Americans. It's against democracy. And Donald Trump is not shy to, to privatize state institutions, state symbols like the flag, to promote his agenda.
- [29:38]
Jim Acosta
Yes.
- [29:38]
Gary Kasparov
And he does it all the time.
- [29:41]
Jim Acosta
And, And Gary, what took place in the former Soviet Union, the early days of Russia, the Russian Federation coming back, that, that paved the way for Putin to do this. Were people complacent? Did people just think, oh, it won't happen now that we have freedom, there's no way we're going to go? What was it that allowed that to occur?
- [30:01]
Gary Kasparov
Look, Russia didn't have the same traditions and we had two years of proper democracy, but then there was a conflict between Yeltsin and the parliament. And the parliament was not a collection of good guys, nationalist, communists, but it was a balance of power. Yeltsin won this short episode of civil war, basically shooting at the parliament tanks. I have to confess, I was on the Yeltsin side in 1996. We had elections free, not fair. I was also on the Elton side because we were afraid communists, they could come back. That's. It doesn't work this way. You know, it's just, it's. Anytime you make compromise with principles, it will bite you. It is sooner or later. And I think paved the way for Putin.
- [30:47]
Jim Acosta
And that's probably why, I mean, you're saying the Democrats need to fight. That is probably why they would be well advised to not take any deal with the Republicans that involve all of the nutty shit that Trump has been doing with ICE and everything else. I mean, to me it's like, why not shut it down? See what he does. Dare him.
- [31:02]
Gary Kasparov
Yeah, exactly. Let. Because he will. He. He uses his even tiny majority to push his agenda. He said, not me, not you. He said, forget Democrats. No deals. You know, I don't need you. Trump, de facto, not the euro yet de facto running one party government. It's one party rule. The rest doesn't matter. The only moment he needs Democrats is to avoid the shutdown. Don't give them this chance. Fight back. It's risk. It will, but you can't win a battle against this kind of Jagger now without taking risk. It's this and a problem with both Schumer and Jeffries. They, they want to do business as usual. It's not business as usual. It's not about health care, it's not about tariffs. This is about the future of American democracy because Trump is aiming at the very heart of American political system, the checks and balances.
- [31:52]
Jim Acosta
And the Jimmy Kimmel. And the Jimmy Kimmel story is important in all of this. We were talking about this a little bit earlier, but the way Putin was able to take over the media in Russia and it's starting to look very similar to what is taking place now in the US It's. I've never seen anything like it, by the way.
- [32:08]
Gary Kasparov
This is, it's interesting. That is the arguments they use. As I said, it resonates because that's what Putin told Bush. 43. Don't, don't worry. This is a business. What they did. They put pressure on business and they, they closed the show.
- [32:20]
Jim Acosta
Exactly.
- [32:21]
Gary Kasparov
Same story. It says, again, Russia didn't have the same strengths of opposition, not the same strengths of the laws, and not the same public that was willing to fight. I think it's very important to lead people. They should recognize that we're in majority, we can fight. And we have many. Just. There are many tools. The problem is you don't use these tools. You don't use the levels of power that's still available. They'll become irrelevant.
- [32:44]
Jim Acosta
Yeah.
- [32:45]
Gary Kasparov
And this is. And we what, for instance, people asking, I'm reading now, just what can we do? I mean, stop writing on social media, Write to your representatives, especially the Republicans, and turn their life to hell.
- [32:57]
Jim Acosta
I think you're right. I think you're awesome.
- [32:59]
Gary Kasparov
Keep pushing. Send, send emails. I mean, just create the momentum. They said Jimmy Kimmel had poor, poor ratings. Let's, let's see. Maybe there are a few millions right to them.
- [33:11]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, well, and you. And you're absolutely right, Gary, because look what happened with the Epstein files. The Republicans were. Republicans were going to just get behind Trump and not do anything.
- [33:21]
Gary Kasparov
Remember, you need five. Five members of the house.
- [33:24]
Ali Velshi
Five.
- [33:24]
Jim Acosta
Yeah.
- [33:24]
Gary Kasparov
Three of them already retiring. It's bacon, McCall and Massey. Maybe you need two more. Just find them, you know, just. And put pressure. Then also, they're terrorized by Trump. Terrorize them in a good sense. Put pressure, talk about democracy. So create momentum for them to decide. You know, we can't tolerate anymore. You see, this is, it's maga's been.
- [33:45]
Jim Acosta
Tormenting all of us. It's time to, you know, everybody's willing.
- [33:48]
Gary Kasparov
To accept things, you know, you read, you read the comments. Yes, they, they feel uncomfortable. Yes. I find it very troubling that a lot of people are defending this administration and on this decision. And I think this is, it's very important to point out that the whole conversation about Jimmy Kimmel and Charlie Core is basically irrelevant. And I just, you know, I, I looked at, I looked just to, to two landmark cases of Supreme Court. I'm surprised that nobody mentioned the very famous case. Actually, I learned about it from the movie People, People versus Larry Fleet.
- [34:21]
Jim Acosta
That's right.
- [34:22]
Gary Kasparov
It's a 1919, 1988 case. You know, says it's a Haster magazine versus AAL. And Falvo was again, I think was a much bigger Christian preacher than, than Charlie Kirk. And the case was about, about this is a defamation, emotional distress. And they clearly said that libel, invasion of privacy and emotional distress are not arguments against First Amendment. And I mean the decision was 80.
- [34:48]
Jim Acosta
That's right.
- [34:48]
Gary Kasparov
And it was a conservative court. It was conservative court that basically said it, you know, bluntly.
- [34:55]
Jim Acosta
Yes. And Gary, this is why I, that, that is such the perfect. This is why that I, I think that the networks have really let us down. When ABC and CBS paid those settlements to trump $16 million, they only emboldened the behavior. And I think if, if these cases were to go all the way to the Supreme Court, I think that you would have similar protections for freedom of speech. I mean, I, you know, the supreme, the Supreme Court obviously is very pro maga, but I just, I, I don't know. And maybe I'm being Pollyanna here. I just refuse to believe they're going to throw the First Amendment overboard.
- [35:33]
Ali Velshi
You.
- [35:34]
Jim Acosta
Know, just because Trump doesn't like his coverage.
- [35:36]
Gary Kasparov
But you talk about this Supreme Court. Just one more thing.
- [35:39]
Jim Acosta
Yeah.
- [35:40]
Gary Kasparov
Last year, you remember the case last year, it was an NRA versus New York City of New York. Yeah, I just reading the Supreme Court, they decided in favor because the NRA complained that New York regulator uses power to force organizations to cut ties with them. And this again, 90 and point that is. This is the, that. Yeah. Yeah. The court reaffirms that government officials cannot attempt to curse private parties in order to punish or suppress views that the government disfavors. That's the supreme court. This Supreme Court. 9 0. Just read the decision. It is fine. So just says all we need is just to start pushing. You know, this is the, all these things, you know, all these elements, you know, that, that are in my view are very, are very important.
- [36:31]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, well, And Charlie Kirk himself said, I mean, and there's a lot of stuff that Charlie Kirk has said that I don't agree with, I don't like. I think some of what he said is repugnant. But he did say there is no such thing legally as hate speech. Absolutely.
- [36:43]
Gary Kasparov
It's. By the way, that's, that's, that's was a, that was a united position of ma. That was one of the things on the banner of, of Trump. Trump bans defending free speech and of course releasing Epstein files. So Epstein files. Something, something goes wrong there and, and now the free speech. The same people, you know, that talked about the free speech and the first thing Trump said at the inauguration, Executive order, by the way, what is this executive order defending free speech? The views of those I disagree with. So it's again, there's a logic of building authoritarian state and they have no choice. They need to eliminate all the descent voices, especially as powerful as Jimmy Kimmel. And then again, they will move, they will push as far as they can. It's like, you know, classical, you know, this is the bayonet against mush. And it will, it will, it will be pushed inside until it meets steel.
- [37:32]
Jim Acosta
Yeah.
- [37:32]
Gary Kasparov
So, and I'll feel is, is, is numbers. So people have to go to the streets as well. But it's very important start writing, use social media again, putting pressure on those who can, you know, end Trump's through five, I, I repeat again, five Republicans changing sides. That's it. But House is not, it's, it's Article 1 of the Constitution.
- [37:54]
Jim Acosta
Well, and I think, you know, the comparison with Putin is such a good one. I, I worry that Americans are just going to say, oh, that's never going to happen here. That's not going to happen here. But look what has happened over two decades of Vladimir Putin and his rule in Russia and, and what happened to Alexi Navalny.
- [38:12]
Gary Kasparov
Forget Rush for a moment. What's happened here in eight months, this is just, look, you know, this is so many things that people said, no, no, no, it's inconceivable.
- [38:21]
Jim Acosta
The National Guard and major American cities.
- [38:23]
Gary Kasparov
Just Trump, Trump is, call it, he's a genius of normalizing things that weren't acceptable. I mean, today nobody would even notice. Watergate. What is Watergate? It happens every day, it's maybe every hour. So Trump normalized things that many Americans deem to be impossible.
- [38:41]
Jim Acosta
He's worn down our outrage sensors.
- [38:43]
Gary Kasparov
So, yeah, Constitution does not defend itself. We just have to start building our fortification based on the foundation of the Constitution.
- [38:53]
Jim Acosta
And that's why, you know, the no Kings protest that we saw back in, in June was so important. I think this next one on October 18th is going to be very important for not just for people.
- [39:04]
Gary Kasparov
We narrow, we narrow the angle. The opposition against Trump is. It could be easily disunited, and they're very good in doing that. There are many issues that can divide us. What we should defend is a framework that will allow us to disagree. The greatest of America was always that. It was enough room for people with different views to live in one country and follow the same rules. So protecting this framework is a key. And that's why I founded Renewables initiative back in 2017. That's what I'm writing on. The next move on my substack is it's about us recognizing there's a number one target. Now, for instance, I'm doing the podcast now on the Atlantic South America, and I invited Jake Sullivan. I've been one of the harshest critics of Jake. And, and we talked. I said, jake, you know, fine, I will criticize you, but now we should talk about the real threat. And he said, yes, the real threat is from within.
- [39:55]
Jim Acosta
Yeah.
- [39:55]
Gary Kasparov
So very important that we, we, we put aside some of the differences because they are important, but not as important as saving American Constitution, American democracy from an existential threat.
- [40:06]
Jim Acosta
And, Gary, while I've got you, your thoughts also on the way Trump has. I mean, if there's one person that Trump kowtows to, it's Vladimir Putin. They had that ridiculous summit in Alaska. There are Russian drones going into Poland. Trump was asked about it today. He's. Oh, I'm disappointed. He sounded like Susan Collins. I'm very disappointed. That doesn't, that doesn't cut it, actually.
- [40:26]
Gary Kasparov
I'm sorry, it's this, I saw this as. My, my, my, my X account is, is Casper of 63.
- [40:33]
Jim Acosta
Yeah.
- [40:33]
Gary Kasparov
Just to make sure it's not, it's not that Gary Kasparov.
- [40:35]
Jim Acosta
Oh, okay. We'll get that.
- [40:36]
Ali Velshi
Right?
- [40:36]
Jim Acosta
We'll get that.
- [40:37]
Gary Kasparov
Casper of 63. I'm not sure who's using Casper of 63. Yes.
- [40:44]
Jim Acosta
I think that might, we might have been showing your, your substack.
- [40:47]
Gary Kasparov
Yes, but. Yes, this is, this is true. Yes, but this. Yeah, so. But again, it's, it's the, it's. I, you know, I'm telling you, we still have many opportunities to fight back. The tools are there. Yeah, I think the mood is right. But, but it's, it's very important not to, not to panic and also, I mean, not to Be subdued by this, by the, by this bullies. Because what, what we saw, you know, just as you, the, the, the, the attack on the fcc. It's, it's his bullying. I mean, it's, it's an open, it's a mob language. Ah, you have such a nice, you know, nice business.
- [41:16]
Jim Acosta
It's the maga mafia, where I can.
- [41:18]
Gary Kasparov
I can kill it.
- [41:19]
Jim Acosta
That's right.
- [41:20]
Gary Kasparov
I mean, you have to go to the court. I don't get. I'm not here to give an advance to Kimmel or others, but basically this is, it's, it's criminal. What he said is criminal.
- [41:28]
Jim Acosta
Yes, well, Gary Kasparov, I mean, and there it is right there. Kasparov 60. The Democrats would be wise to follow your chess moves. I think you've got the right ones.
- [41:38]
Gary Kasparov
The rule is one thing in chess. If your position is not good, you have to complicate things because you have to just change, change the, the cause, the course of the game to make it more sharper and to increase the chances of opponent making mistake.
- [41:52]
Jim Acosta
Yeah.
- [41:52]
Gary Kasparov
Thank you.
- [41:53]
Jim Acosta
Thanks, Gary. Really appreciate it. Good to see you as always.
- [41:56]
Gary Kasparov
Thank you.
- [41:56]
Jim Acosta
Thank you. The great Gary Kasparov. And you know, folks, the reason why I thought it was important to have Gary on is Gary speaks on this, this subject of this creeping fascism, this creeping authoritarianism here in the United States with some authority. He speaks on this with some authority because he can draw upon the lessons of what happened to the former Soviet Union, which showed great promise that it might have become a strong democracy. And instead, Vladimir Putin comes on the scene, it backslides tragically, to the point where now it's a police state, it's a violent police state. And what are we seeing in America right now seeing Donald Trump sending National Guard troops into major American cities? He's already done it to two. He's threatening to do it more. He is, he is going after the media in ways that we have not seen in my lifetime. Two late night hosts kicked off of their shows, two networks paying essentially bribes to the president, United States. So much so he was, he was bragging about it to John Carl the other day. He was bragging about how ABC, John's employer, paid him $16 million. And he said he didn't even, he didn't even couch it by saying they paid it to my library. He said, they paid it to me. And you know, you can get red in the face, pissed off at Donald Trump until the cows go come home. There has to be some culpability. There has to be some Responsibility. There has to be some sense of decency and patriotism on the parts of these networks, on the parts of these major institutions in American society that continue to bend the knee, that continue to kowtow to Donald Trump, this wannabe dictator, this Putin wannabe. At some point these major institutions have to take a stand. And, and for the life of me, why ABC buckled in this case is everything about money. My God, Walt Disney, they, they print money out of the goddamn magic Kingdom. Printing money daily. They need more money. It matters that much. Some things are more important than money. Taking a stand for the First Amendment, taking a stand for free speech, that's more important. And I'm sorry, these stations, a lot of these stations, folks, do your homework on this. Do some, do some search on, do some searching on the Google or ChatGPT on this and, and find out the people who own some of these major media companies these days. Sinclair, the people who are about to take over cbs, the Ellisons and, and might buy another cable network that I have some familiarity with. They're maga, they're Trumpy. Folks need to see what's happening right now. The consolidation of American media institutions under the umbrella, under the wing of Donald Trump and maga. Folks, that is a scenario we must push back against with all of our might. You cannot have a situation in this country where you have, for all intents and purposes, American state media trump state media. We know what they have over at Fox. I mean over at Fox, there's no accountability there. Brian Kilmeade talked about this on the.
- [45:27]
Gary Kasparov
Show the other day.
- [45:27]
Jim Acosta
I'll talk about it again. Goes on television and says you can lethally inject homeless people. That's his suggestion. To lethally inject homeless people, Euthanize and execute homeless people. Apologizes, apparently he looks like he was forced to apologize. Keeps his job. Jimmy Kimmel makes one fact based observation about how the far right is trying to capitalize on the murder of Charlie Kirk and he, he gets shit canned. It's not right. And, and, and to all of these bad faith just goofballs on the far right, Megan Kelly, Benny Johnson, I hate to even say their names, they're so ridiculous.
- [46:16]
Gary Kasparov
This is just a business decision.
- [46:18]
Jim Acosta
Oh, they were just losing money. So it's a business decision. Give me a break. Give me a break. You heard Brendan Carr, the chairman of the fcc. And, and by the way, when is the last time the sec, when is the last time that anybody remembers the SEC being in the news before Brendan Carr came along?
- [46:38]
Gary Kasparov
Who the.
- [46:39]
Jim Acosta
Does he Think he is Donald Trump's media henchman, Brendan Carr, who does he think he is? All of a sudden comes on the scene and is telling companies what they can and can't do with their programming? Give me a break. Gary Kasparov is right. This is going to have to come from the people there. Yes, absolutely. There are some up on Capitol Hill who will push back and push back hard and, and do it in, in a way that is worthy of our, our respect. No question about it. But there are too many who are willing to play ball. There are too many who just want to cut deals, who don't want to push back against the dear leader. And so it's going to be on all of us, folks, forget about the weak need. Corporate executives from corporate media. They're not coming to our rescue. They're not coming to save us. It's up to independent media. It's up to citizen journalists. It's up to the citizens. It's up to we, the people to take a stand, to say, we're not going to tolerate this. We're not going to take this lying down. We're not going to allow state media to take hold in the United States of America. As I was saying earlier, my dad comes from Cuba. If you ever want to get a sense of what state media looks like, look at what they broadcast in Cuba. It's a joke. When Fidel Castro died, as I was saying earlier, they stated that it was his physical disappearance. It wasn't his death, it was his physical disappearance. Do we want our nightly news to be done by the, the little lady on North Korean state television who sits there at the desk with the mountains behind her? Do we want Greg Gutfeld to be the only late night talk show host that Donald Trump's approved approving of on our TV screens every night? The guy's not even funny. He's a troll. He's a, he's a goblin. He looks like he sleeps under a bridge. Do you want Late Night with Greg Gutfeld, America, we got to get a grip. And the way we do that is by rising up and saying, I stand with Jimmy Kimmel. Go on your social media, call your congressman, write an editorial to your newspaper, Flood the, flood the phones over at the fcc. Does the FCC have a phone number? Look it up. Call it. Call the fcc, ask for Brendan Carr and tell him, we stand with Jimmy Kimmel. We stand for free speech. We stand for the First Amendment. We stand for free expression. Stand with Jimmy Kimmel. Stand with people like Stephen Colbert. And to the to the network executives who've let us down again, you know who you are. You know who you are. We should be flooding their phone lines, too. We should be going, you know, when it says the contact form and the email form, you know, a lot of times those, those network folks, especially in the PR world, they see that stuff, they get that stuff. Don't think it's just going into thin air. If you have social media accounts, go on them and tell people that you stand with Jimmy. I stand with Jimmy. And I hope you do, too. My thanks to Ali Velshi over at msnbc, my friend, always glad to have him on, and the great Gary Kasparov as well. Thanks, everybody for watching. Tomorrow might be a bit of an abbreviated show as I'm going to be traveling back from Texas. I'm down here again. I'm down here in a red state. I'm gonna preach the free, free speech to anybody who will listen. But I'm, I'm definitely going to do it in a red state. I'm definitely going to do it in Dallas, Texas. That's what I'm going to be doing tonight. But getting back might be a little tricky tomorrow. So I'll keep you posted on tomorrow. But thanks everybody for watching. Still reporting tonight in Dallas, I'm Jim Acosta.
- [50:52]
Ali Velshi
Have a great evening.
- [50:53]
Jim Acosta
Thanks for watching.