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Foreign.
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Welcome to the Jim Acosta Show. And we begin with the breaking news. A federal judge has ordered Trump to suspend construction of his new $400 million ballroom on the grounds of the White House. Trump's plans are being halted as his poll numbers are tanking. Let's discuss with Larry Sabato. He's the director of the UVA center for Politics. Larry, great to see you again.
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A
Thank you so much, Jim. Nice to see you, too. Yeah.
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And we got a lot to talk about. I wanted to bring you on to talk about the poll numbers, which we should do, but then this breaking news happened. We've been covering this a lot on my show. You know, Trump just bulldozing the East Wing, trying to build this monstrosity of a ballroom without anybody saying, you know, putting any input into this process. But this just came out today. A federal judge ordered the administration to suspend the construction of the ballroom. The judge in the case granted a preservationist group's request for an injunction. And this is a judge who was nominated to the bench by George W. Bush. And he said that I have concluded that the National Trust is likely to succeed on the merits. Larry, what do you think? Trump can't. And here are some of the renderings here. Apparently, Trump can't just do whatever he wants.
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A
Well, that's a shock right there. And I'm sure that the president will need a sedative tonight for the two or three hours of sleep he gets. But look, the thing is hideous, although I have to say I have a better opinion of it now that Trump has released the, the plans or at least the drawings of the Trump Presidential Library. That is the very definition of hideous.
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B
We're going to get to that, too, there. And, and speak of the devil, there it is right there in Miami.
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A
Look at this.
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B
It apparently has the golden plane in the middle of it or something like that.
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A
It's, it has Air Force One from, from Middle east or gutter, I guess. But the, the awful part of it is that statute golden statue of Trump with his, with his arm up as he was in Butler, Pennsylvania. But all I could imagine when I saw that was the vision of the future. And it will happen one day. I probably will be dead. I'd love to be alive when that statue is going to be torn down, you know, just as it was for Saddam and so many others in the Middle East. So that's kind of a fun thought. If you get upset in looking at the golden statue.
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B
Well, I mean, and getting back to the ballroom, I mean, the thing the Thing that just drives everybody nuts is that he thinks he can just go and do this and for once, I mean, we have a federal judge, we have checks and balances sort of making a comeback. I mean, there, you know, you can go to a judge and say, hey, wait a minute, yeah, it'll be appealed.
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A
You know that. I know the judge. I was delighted to say you live there, you don't own it. You're, you're, you are not allowed to do anything you want to it. You, you are supposed to be preserving it. And that will come as a great shock to Trump.
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B
And, and what is, I mean, what's your sense of where things stand for him right now? Because, I mean, I'm looking at the poll numbers. I know I saw your SA crystal ball last week on where things stand in terms of the balance of power in the Congress and the prospects of the midterms. You guys wrote that you're moving 11 ratings in the House from current Democratic held districts all in the favor of Democrats. I guess there were some that might have been up for grabs and you've moved them all over. But his own presidential poll numbers are seemingly all below 40% right now. Just about any poll you look at these days, he's under 40%. It seems like gas prices are weighing him down. And, and even Republicans don't want this war in the Middle East.
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A
Yeah, I, I don't want to pick out just one poll, but let me pick out just one poll.
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B
Sure.
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A
The, the Ipsos YouGov poll. They poll regularly and have for many, many years. They do the Economist polls. I think they still do the Economist and they were out today with a 35 approval rating for Donald Trump. It is his lowest percentage in either term. And the other polls have been falling too. He's now in the 30s and several of the, the good ones, the gold standard ones. So, you know, when you fall, I've, I've said all along it's basically 60, 40. You know, his, his base is, is very supportive of him, still is for the most part. But the opposition has become firmer and firmer. So the best estimate is 60 disapproved, 40 approved. But now I'm wondering if it's going to be more like, you know, 60, 35 once some of the undecideds are moved to disapprove. How can you be happy with what is going on? Not just in Iran, although I think that has upset just about everybody and the gas prices, of course. But if you pay attention to the news even a little bit, Almost by the hour, you hear outrageous things coming from Trump or his appointees and gradually that has an effect. You know, it chips away and chips away.
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B
And I, I guess, is there one thing that you would point to right now as to why he has bottomed out? I mean, I suppose he may not, he may not have totally bottomed out, as you said, it could go even further. But, you know, I saw Fox came out with a poll, I believe it was last week, that said this is the lowest he's been in either term. And I, I suppose that includes the aftermath of January 6th with, I mean, if he's that low, that's pretty bad. And I have to think that Republicans up on Capitol Hill are screaming into their pillows at night with these numbers.
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A
Yeah, well, they can talk to themselves because that's mainly what they do. They're responsible for the fact that they're in such trouble and they will go out with their heads low after they're defeated, many of them in November, and they will owe it to Trump, but also themselves. They could have stood up. They could have stood up. And those who plan to retire after whatever term they're being elected to after the primary, they could speak out against Trump without any real risk to themselves and possibly help themselves in the general election. But that would take at least a modicum of courage. So you won't see it.
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B
Yeah, no. And I mean, we've seen this during the whole process over the shutdown of the Department of Homeland Security. Republicans are not really willing to buck him, I suppose, to some extent. John Th the, the majority leader said, well, we're not going to kill the filibuster to ram through the SAVE act because Trump wants to ram through this. Basically, it's a voter suppression bill dressed up as a voter ID bill. I suppose they did sort of buck him there, but not really anywhere else. And so they do have. It's sort of like my mother used to say, you make your bed, you lie in it. And that's, that's what's happening.
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A
Yes. And on the, the SAVE Act, DHS and so on. Essentially, I don't know that every member of the Republican caucus in the Senate really knew what was in the agreement that they were reaching at 3am but enough of them did so that it's impossible not to call this bipartisan out of the Senate. And the fact that the right wing Freedom Caucus immediately rose up and threatened the speaker and threatened everybody else and, and managed to get it killed. Now, this is solely, in my view, solely a Republican problem. The Democrats are out of it completely because of what the Senate did. That was a bipartisan solution, but it was too liberal for the House Republicans, right?
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B
That's absolutely right. And I wonder what the impact of all of this is going to be on the upcoming midterm races. I know that your crystal ball team has moved some House races over to the Democratic side, much more so than we've seen in recent weeks. You know, the thing that, you know, I think most people are curious about these days, they assume that the House is going to fall to the Democrats, but that, that the Senate, is it truly up for grabs? Larry, I've been, this is what I've been wanting to get you on to talk about this. What do you think? Do you think, I mean, Mary Peltola, could she pull off an upset in Alaska? Could Dr. Andrews, I think it's Annie Andrews in South Carolina. Could she pull off that upset against Lindsey Graham? I mean, Susan Collins, this seems like every six years we talk about Susan Collins. What do you, what do you think of all this?
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A
Well, first on the House, if the House doesn't go Democratic, I'm going to go ahead and finally retire and a lot of people will applaud. I mean, because look at the conditions in the country. Look at, look at the disapproval rate for Trump. It would violate all the rules we've come to believe in politics, even more so than Trump violated in 2016 and in 2020 and 2024. If the House doesn't go Democratic, I think it will the margin, you know, if you ask me today, I'd say two 30s, but could shrink, it could expand. Let's just see what happens. The Senate, and I think it's important to bring people down to earth a little bit. I'm not trying to cap anyone's enthusiasm. They should go out there and work as hard as they can. But it is a tough nut to crack. You look at the seats that are up and really it would be at a minimum, a small miracle and probably a big miracle if the Democrats did take over. It is possible. It's theoretically possible and it's practically possible when you look at North Carolina, which I think is very clearly moved in the Democratic direction, Georgia, which is now, I think, pretty solid for the Democrats. Michigan, we still have a question mark because we don't know who the nominee is and whether the Democrats will get back together, but they ought to be able to put it together and, and hold that seat in, in Michigan, Maine, if Susan Collins is ever going to be defeated, it's going to be this year.
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B
Yeah.
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A
You know, Platner will be, I think, will be the nominee. I think Mills. It's really age with Mills and the fact that she's an establishment choice. If anybody killed her, it was probably Chuck Schumer and picking her and endorsing her.
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B
Right.
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A
But there are others that are, that are on the board that could be on the board. You know, I'm not a believer in Nebras going independent slash Democratic, but it's possible, it is possible that Iowa could do so. Ohio is definitely possible. Alaska is definitely possible. No one believes that. No one believes that. They're not going to believe it until it happens, if it happens.
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B
Right.
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A
But these are going to be at least competitive races. And Democrats haven't been competitive in many of these states for years. And really that's the key for Democrats. Keep working on becoming competitive in states you once won frequently for the Senate and even for president, but particularly the Senate and the House and governor, get competitive again. Do what you have to do. And that includes maybe trimming some of the less popular parts of your platform. We all have to make compromises in life, but it can work if Democrats are determined to do it and see what, what the threat is if they don't.
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B
Right. Well, and the other one that I think the other Senate race that I'm intrigued by is, is Texas. If James Talarico, I mean, he, one would think on paper he looks like somebody who could defeat Ken Paxton. If it ends up being Ken Paxton. John Cornyn, I think it's. That's harder, that's going to be tougher to pull off. But if it's Ken Paxton, and I noticed the other day Trump was threatening to endorse somebody in that, in that primary, and then he didn't. So I don't know if that's happening or not. He sort of pulled back. He's sort of become afraid. He's become a little gun shy about the fact that he's not so much of a kingmaker anymore.
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A
Yeah. He doesn't want to be blamed if something, something goes awry in Texas. I apologize for that mentioning Texas. I certainly should have it. It's on the board more than on the board. I think we're all a little gun shy about Texas because how many times political experts of all stripes said, you know, there could. Texas could go blue. I see a blue wave coming and then it never happens. It hasn't happened since before 1994. Really. 1990 was the last true Democratic year in, in Texas. But that doesn't mean there can't be another one. And Talarico is a generational talent. The more I've watched him, the more impressed I've become. You know, in the beginning, I kind of wondered. I've told people, you know, he has such a baby face. And partly that's jealousy. You know, being in my 70s, I
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B
know what you mean. I feel this.
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A
You're nowhere near there, J there.
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B
But good lighting here.
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A
That's good lighting. That's right. Look, it's. It's possible. And you never know when a race is coming out of the blue. And it would be the blue in this case, one you didn't even have on the map. And we used to have those regularly. When American politics had more fluidity to it and people would vote for the other party, they would switch for one reason or another. They'd get mad at the incumbent. We've lost that, and we've got to get that back.
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B
Yeah. And I guess there was a subscriber who was just asking the question, does Trump's unpopularity necessarily translate to Democratic votes? And I guess, Larry, I mean, one of the phenomenons that I suppose we could talk about is do just Republicans stay home? And I read some reports that CPAC in Texas was lightly attended. You're seeing some splintering in maga. You know, folks will say, oh, maga's fine. We don't have anything to worry about. When Joe Rogan and Megyn Kelly and some of these types start to speak out against Trump, to me it says some of these podcast bro type voters may just stay home. They may go out in a presidential, but not in a midterm.
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A
Yes, but there's another option. The other option is to go and vote, but skip a race or two that you're conflicted about. You know, when you vote, you don't have to vote for every race on the ballot or every item, every referendum on the ballot. Some people will pick and choose, and more will pick and choose if they are conflicted. And so that's why it's useful for the opposition party to give good arguments that appeal to the other side that can cause voters to become conflicted.
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B
Well, let's bring in Ty Cobb, because Ty is waiting in the wings. And Ty, of course, worked in the Trump administration. I'm just kind of curious what Ty thinks. And while we have Larry for a few more minutes on what the. The midterms are looking like, Ty, I mean, I've not seen Trump wounded like this, politically speaking, in some time. Like this is he has damaged goods right now, and it's hurting the Republican brand. If, if there are some folks out there who still think that it has a good brand, it's, it's been damaged, it's been tarnished.
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C
So I've enjoyed this conversation. Larry's one of mine heroes in this field. I, I review his stuff regularly, and I'm a subscriber. And Jim, of course, you have too much damaging film on me for me to disagree with you, but it's true. But, but I, I have to throw a little cold water on this for three reasons. One, Larry's colleague Charlie Cook had a piece this week about how the data doesn't yet show a wave, and for reasons that are some somewhat puzzling, but also somewhat structural in terms of gerrymandering and, you know, years of gerrymandering. The tightness of the race is the number of retirements, which actually does marginally help the. Help the Dems, I think, as Larry would agree. But, but the country is so divided, and the media control that Republicans have gotten that has turned many of the outlets into more Pravda than independent journalism is problematic. And then finally, I think when we talk about the elections, we can't talk about them in the narrow vacuum that has intellectually framed this historically. Because Trump intends to send ICE into polling places 48 hours to 24 hours before the elections. You know, disrupt them and hijack them if necessary. You know, ice, of course, has no business at the airports. ICE has no business at the polls. They don't have any jurisdiction to be at the polls. They're legally prohibited from being at the polls. But Trump has said they will be in 15 jurisdictions. Bannon has said they will be everywhere. Tom Holman last week said, you know, people have nothing to fear with ISIS polls. What are people afraid of? Well, what they're afraid of is it's against the law, it's illegal, and it's purely for intimidation. But it's all to sensitize Americans to the fact they will be there. And it is difficult, I'm sure Larry would agree, it's difficult to pull the consequences of that. So I think we should be optimistic about the fact that people do seem to be waking up. We should be optimistic about the fact, as Larry says, that Talarico is a generational candidate, that we have some people like that. Sadly, though, I would counter the enthusiasm there by pointing out that Jeffries and Schumer have just been inept and feckless when it comes to assistance in the, in the selection of Candidates, they haven't been strong enough to try to point out to people that the reason the Democrats won in New Jersey and Virginia is because they ran center left, intelligent women with real achievements, not progressives. So I'm, I, I'm cautiously optimistic, but I'm not, I'm far from confident.
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B
Larry, what, what do you think about the prospect of ICE being at the polls and Trump dirty tricks, maga? Dirty tricks. I guess that's something that. And you were cautioning us earlier. These are things that we can't account for.
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A
Sure. And first, let me say, Ty, you're a real Debbie Downer. You know, I had people pumped up and excited.
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B
Yes, you did.
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A
You know, enthusiastic and, you know, but I'll give you some of the pills they assigned to old people. You're not there yet, but I get them. Why I'm as up as I am. But look, what you said is absolutely true. And of course I imagine these nightmare scenarios as well. I try not to share them widely simply because I worry about people getting desensitized to the awful idea that troops of any sort, law enforcement of any sort, at least in the ICE category, could make their way into polling places. I've been told, and you're the lawyer, but I've been told it's illegal. It clearly violates the statutes, and I would hope that we would have the ability to act quickly and get those people out of the polling places. I realize that people would be intimidated just hearing that they might be in the polling places, but we don't want to prepare people for something that is illegal and terrible and must be fought at every turn. So that I salute you for bringing it up. I condemn you for being Debbie Downer.
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C
I think that's, I think that's fair. And I was there a month ago. I was where you are a month ago. But I've sort of concluded that it is such a reality that I think people might need to factor it in and, and start to develop the courage that it's going to take to go to the polls and in those circumstances
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B
make it too big to rig, as they say. Yeah.
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A
This is the 250th anniversary of the Declaration of Independence written by the man who built the pavilion that I'm right here in on UVA's lawn. And he had courage. You know, the British would have hung him if they found him. All the other founders had had great courage. Can't we show just a little bit?
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B
I hope so.
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C
And, and that's, that's why that's Why I raise it, which is steal yourself for this. Go anyway and, and be an American.
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A
Absolutely. We're in concert. I don't have the problem with you that I did a few minutes ago.
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B
Very well, Larry, thank you so much for coming on as always. And I'll continue with Tyler in the wet blanket that he's brought to the program, but cheer him up.
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A
Okay. Give you some chocolate cake or something.
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B
We'll send from his way. No, no problem.
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C
Thank you. Very great to be with you, Larry.
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A
I enjoyed it. Thank you, Ty. Thank you, Jim.
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B
Thank you so much. Ty, you bring up a great point. And, and, you know, the fact that he has a. There's a federal judge today telling Trump he can't start building his new ballroom. There's a federal judge telling Trump today that he can't defund NPR and pbs. This is going to start pissing him off. And, you know, the other day they were reporting he was bored with the Iran war. And this, this will give him stuff to focus on. And I think you're right. This, this is what gets the mischief makers going inside his camp. This is what I, I worry about. What you worry about.
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C
Yeah. No, I mean, this, you know, Stephen Miller's already, you know, got his helmet on and, you know, his emergency vest, and He's a DEFCON 5 because of these decisions today. And he'll be firing Trump up, you know, that somebody is interfering with his racist, fascist agenda.
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B
Yeah. And you know, what do you. I know you wanted to talk about the defunding of NPR and pbs. I mean, clearly, I mean, and folks like you have been saying this all along. They have. This administration has been violating the law and going about defunding some of these institutions that we've all, you know, grown accustomed to as Americans in this country. And there are judges who are willing to step in and say, no, we have checks and balances. You can't just, just do this sort of thing. You can't violate the First Amendment of NPR and pbs. My question is whether they abide by this. I suppose you have to. They have to appropriate the money. Now, I don't know how this works, but what do you think?
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C
No. So it's interesting. I think we should be excited about the fact that federal judges, from Judge Boasberg, early on in the Abrego Garcia case and later in the Jerome Powell case, you know, have stood up to the administration, highlighted the unconstitutionality of, you know, the revenge campaign, the campaign to limit access of Americans to objective journalism that is not pure cheerleading for the President and many of the other totalitarian authoritarian efforts of the administration. But this opinion, while excellent on NPR and PBS in outlawing viewpoint discrimination, which is what it does, does not go so far as to require Congress to restore funds. NPR it does raise the possibility that previously allocated funds through other programs that preceded the revocation of funding. More recently, those funds which were halted, they may actually have to flow. That'll require some, you know, sort of case by case efforts. But what we got today was a ruling that says, you know, Congress is free to make a law and the president is free to authorize the law that defunds these institutions because they're, I mean, the Congress is the people's representatives. They can, they have the power of the purse, the spending power, so that can go forward, but that the president cannot issue an executive order that is purely self serving and intended viewpoint discrimination of the type that we see in Pravda and Russia and elsewhere in totalitarian regimes.
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B
Yeah. And the kind of stuff we should not have here. And I know foreign policy is not exactly, you know, your wheelhouse, but state of Trump's mind sometimes is, I think, in your wheelhouse. And he put out this true social today. And there's been a number of these lately where he's just, you know, I think he's just not restrained anymore. And so he just goes and says this stuff and he tells the allies, go get your own oil. That was the thing that he said today in this, in this latest truth social post. You know, go, go in and just take it if you're not going to help us take back the straight of Hormuz. What has been your, you know, take on just how unhinged he's been?
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C
Well, I think my take has been pretty clear for, you know, months, if not over a year that, you know, Trump, Trump historically and continuously has been guided exclusively by his narcissism, his whims, desires, you know, impulses have been on full display. I mean he is only about accumulating power, being adored a la the, you know, signature on the US Dollar, you know, the Trump illegally, the Trump name illegally on the Kennedy Center. I don't think it's, I, I don't think it's beyond his fantasies that he would like to replace Lincoln at Rushmore. We're going to see some just more and more crazy stuff.
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A
Allah.
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C
The, you know, you know, picture that you had of Trump's proposed library in Miami.
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B
Yeah. What did you, what did you think of that when you saw. We can show that again these, it's Possible.
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C
You know, it's just. It's just insane, of course. But, but, you know, that's his desire. He'd love to see that. And, and I think, you know, his narcissism, sadly, now, you know, beyond the revenge, beyond the assaults on the rule of law, now it's really about branding and, and branding in, in the extremes of the type that this, this represents, but also in the, in the, in the context of war. You know, I mean, he went in without consulting any allies to the detriment of our troops, of course, because, you know, Kuwait immediately shot down three of our jets merely because they didn't get a phone call. It's, it's just. It's. It's, it's chaos. I mean, and, and the military advised him against it. They explained the Strait of Hormuz problem. He didn't care. He believed that merely by exercising his power and puffing out his chest that, you know, Iran would surrender, that the regime would step down, that the people would rise up and, you know, there'd be democratic control. And now his position to the world is, hey, we broke it. I don't care. You fix it.
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B
Yeah. Are you surprised he's got him into this jam?
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C
I mean, when you have, when you have little Mikey Johnson who's willing to shut down Congress, you know, our, our Democratic protector, the, the, the subject of Article 1 of the Constitution, which is supposed to stand up against an evil president, when you have Mikey, Mikey Johnson subjugating Congress to Trump's whims and not restraining him with the war power clause or, or any other way, when he'll shut down Congress for two months merely to avoid a vote on releasing the Epstein files, which we knew the Justice Department would never lawfully comply with, it's not a surprise that we're in this much trouble. It's not a surprise that, given the fact that the Cabinet will not invoke the 25th Amendment for a man who is clearly insane. And this war highlights that. And these screeds that come out nightly at 2:00am or 4:00am or, you know, whatever time Trump decides to vent, you know, without, without oversight, you know, it's, it's, it highlights the level of his insanity and depravity.
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B
You think he's just gone?
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C
I think he's gone, yeah.
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B
And he makes it obvious every day. I mean, it's just, you know, this. I'm still shocked. And maybe it's because I'm a native Washingtonian and was a White House correspondent for almost eight years that you can Knock down part of the White House and start building something all on your own. I just didn't think the President of the United States could do that or anybody could do that in this country,
- [28:52]
C
as we found out today. He can't. He did, but he can't lawfully. And Judge Leon made it very plain today and thankfully halting this, this ego driven, insane exercise, destroying, you know, one of the most beautiful sites and historical sites in our country, just out of hubris that, you know, the President has some authority, but he doesn't have the authority, absent congressional approval, to mess with our history and our historic sites. To the extent that he has, that Congress is going to have to authorize this. And actually there's an interesting legal issue here, of course, which is, you know, I've seen some of the early commentary is that of course, Mike Johnson will rubber stamp this and Congress will rubber stamp. I'm not sure they can, you know, that they could if this is, if this qualifies for reconciliation. But keep in mind that Trump is using private funds, so it may not be the fiscal issue for the United States that would, would, would safely go through reconciliation. And the parliamentarian is going to have to wrestle with, you know, can reconciliation apply when the, when the funds are private and not publicly allocated? Because, because that's really the standard. And if, if the parliamentariat comes down on the side of common sense and says, well, they're public funds, so it really doesn't, you know, reconciliation doesn't apply, then the Senate's not going to have 60 votes and it'll get shut down.
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B
Right. And you know, the other legal issue that we should get into, Ty, is, I mean, this continuing war over the 2020 election. And it's just non stop, I guess. Today, three former FBI special agents who worked on criminal cases against Donald Trump, they have filed a lawsuit over and they were ousted by the administration. This court in NBC, they have filed a lawsuit over their, quote, illegal firings. And this is, I guess, what the lawsuit says. And they've cited as evidence comments that Todd Blanche made at CPAC last week where he basically said that Cash Patel had cleaned house and that, quote, there isn't a single man or woman with a gun, federal agent still in that organization that had anything to do with the prosecution of President Trump, end quote. I mean, it's pretty clear cut here that this was, they were fired, they were retaliated against for doing their jobs.
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C
I agree. I think this is a very consequential lawsuit. And I think Blanche got way, way Way out in front of his skis with that statement, which really is a confession to the fact that these people were terminated because of their political viewpoint, alleged political viewpoint, perceived political viewpoint is I believe the phrase that they use in the, in the lawsuit merely because, you know, they took an action consistent with the Constitution, which Trump didn't like. And yeah, so I think Blanche has really stepped in it here. Of course, Blanche, once a federal prosecutor, you know, once a credible lawyer, you know, now has so gone to the dark side since he began to represent Trump, you know, extorting a favorable statement out of Ghislaine Maxwell out in exchange for, you know, favorable treatment as to which prison she would be in if, if not more.
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B
Right.
- [32:26]
C
The other shoe drop there. And, and, you know, these firings, I mean, he didn't just take credit for the FBI firings. He didn't just pound his chest about that. He pounded his, his chest about the DOJ firings too, as to which there are lawsuits. So I think it's good that they can say the quiet part out loud. But having said so, I think there will be consequences for the government. And I think you need to go to sort of 30,000ft on this and look at it as part and parcel of, you know, what's really happened to the rule of law in America. We are so vulnerable. We are so less safe than we once were. Patel and Blanche have gutted the counterterrorism law enforcement community both at justice and at doj. Patel, as, you know, fired, you know, the entire Iranian Counter Intelligence group just days before the invasion. We are so vulnerable in America that our best and brightest agents and prosecutors have been either terminated or sidelined or moved to immigration cases, and that they're not doing organized crime, counterterrorism, money laundering, the kinds of things that really are paramount in law enforcement, the kinds of things that Bob Mueller devoted himself to remaking the agency to be, be expert at the fact that we are no longer putting the resources in to counterintelligence or protecting Americans the way we did under Mueller. You know, an American hero, a Marine, somebody who Trump, in the most indecent thing I think ever said by a president, danced on his grave, saying, good, I'm glad he's dead when he passed. Yeah, totally sick. And, you know, and as you know, Mueller and I, while we were technically legal adversaries, we were always great friends and had mutual respect for each other. And I, I've always characterized him as an American hero, which he was. And for Trump to do that on the graves of people like McCain and Mueller, it's just. It's just so sick. But. But he gets away with this petty stuff, and, and this petty stuff ties back into the screed that you just put on the screen. So, you know, which he. Which we see almost nightly. You know, he's destroyed NATO. He has forced our allies to run the other direction. Even Australia, we couldn't have a more devoted ally than Australia. But they're in a position now where they're sort of isolated in the Pacific. As Chinese influence expands exponentially to, in a way far beyond China's wildest expectations. They don't have to take Taiwan. They could do that overnight if they. If they wanted to. They don't have to take Taiwan as Trump destroys America from the inside. That's what they're watching, and that's what they're reaping the benefit from.
- [35:11]
B
Right. I mean, it's almost like he's lowering our defenses at home with having Cash Patel. People like Cash Patel. And for the longest time, you know, Kristi Noem over at the Department of Homeland Security, Pam Bondi at the Department of Justice, and then what he's doing with our allies overseas, I mean, that doesn't. That doesn't keep America safe either. I mean, it's. It's pretty bad on both ends of things.
- [35:33]
C
It does not. And the names you just mentioned, I think in history at some point will be remembered along with Goebbels, Goring and Eichmann.
- [35:40]
B
Yeah, well, and Chrissy Noem today. I mean, there's not some not so flattering headlines about her today. Maybe you saw something about this, but. Oh, my God. Not good stuff, apparently. She says she's devastated by allegations that her husband was living a double life. I. You know, this is some pretty tawdry stuff, but, I mean, it's just, you know, this is. This is an administration. It seems to far surpass the level of scandal that we saw during the first term, that this is just sort of guns blazing, you know, Apocalypse now, as Trump once said.
- [36:15]
C
Yeah, but I think. I think you have to look at it, you know, almost like the evolution of a child. You know, in the first term, Trump didn't know what the levers of government were. There were intelligent, courageous character, people of character who could say, no, don't do that. Mattis, General Kelly, you know, Nikki Haley, you know, many people in the White House who would say, no, you can't do that.
- [36:39]
B
Or you tried to say, no, I will put that out there. I know you may not want to take any credit. But you did try to say no too.
- [36:45]
C
So I, I don't want to take any credit, but there were, there were people I admire who I thought were very effective at it. And, and we don't have that now. You know, he's the, you know, the, the two year old is now, you know, a full blown adolescent, still insane and actually more insane than he was then. But, but he's, he's muscular and he's asserting, you know, every, every hole in the constitution that Stephen Miller and Russell Voight have found for him in the Project 2025.
- [37:12]
B
Yeah, no, there's no question about. And, and lastly, I mean, you and I have these theoretical, you know, philosophical discussions from time to time. The one that I keep coming back to is, and I think it's something that I get asked a lot. And I'm just curious what your thoughts are, is at the end of all of this, will there be accountability? Can Trump just pardon his way out of this for himself, for the people around him, for the people who committed crimes on his behalf? Can he get away with something like that? Or do you think that, that there is no escaping accountability at some point for at least some of these characters? Have you had any thoughts on this?
- [37:49]
C
No, I've had a lot of thoughts on it and actually, you know, they've been sort of kaleidoscopic in the sense that, you know, wouldn't it be great to, you know, see Stephen Miller in a, in a Nuremberg style event or Hegseth or Noam or Bondi and Blanche and RFK Jr. But, and gratifying though that might be, I've sort of come to the conclusion that it's all magical thinking. And while it would be, as I say, gratifying, I think we need to put our energy and hopes into just getting rid of them, just getting beyond this. I mean, if there's accountability, wonderful. But if we can just get them out and get beyond it, if we can get the house and shut off the financial spigot that fuels this kind of fascism, that would be, that would be more than enough for me. Accountability would be sort of a cherry on top.
- [38:50]
B
Yeah. One of the subscribers just said, how can you pardon treason? I mean, I, I, you know, that's a good question.
- [38:56]
C
Treason's a federal crime. The President has the ability to pardon treason. Yeah.
- [39:01]
B
All right, well, Ty, hey, great to see you again. Thanks for doing this. And with you, there are no incriminating photos, per your comment earlier. They don't exist. I don't think. I, I Thought ahead to get. Get any of you at the time. So it's all, it's all in my memory. So it's all of my magical thinking, as you might.
- [39:17]
C
All right, buddy. Well, I got great memories and. But I appreciate the opportunity to visit with you about these important issues that you bring to the people every day. And good on you for doing it.
- [39:25]
B
I appreciate it. Thanks, Ty. Good to see you. All right, thanks a lot. Ty Cobb. I mean, just a fantastic legal mind. Always like to have him on the show and hope to do this with some regularity and bother Ty as much as he'll allow us to do that. A couple of quick things before we go. One is I took a little. I took a little jaunt, a little stroll down to the National Mall today. You know, it's, it's just so. And I didn't plan this. It's just so fitting that a federal judge said to Donald Trump, not so fast. You can't just start building your monstrosity of a ballroom all on your own. There's a process here. This is the United States of America. We have to have processes for knocking down buildings and building new federal buildings. You may think you're a king or a dictator and just, you could just tell people to go do things and put gold up in the, in the White House and so on, but you can't just do all of that stuff. And, you know, apparently I'm not the only person who finds this to be outrageous and wants to make a commentary on it. And there's, there's somebody who has. There's, there's a very talented artist or artists, group of artists here in Washington. You've done it again. You've heard about the Trump Epstein statue down on the National Mall? Well, today we visited. Somebody had placed a golden toilet down by the Lincoln Memorial. Let's take a look. We went to go check it out. Let's take a look. It's cherry blossom time here in Washington, D.C. and there are tourists all over the National Mall. But there's one attraction down here positively stinks. Who do you think is this about?
- [41:01]
A
Well, it's obvious who it's about.
- [41:04]
B
I mean, it's just a little mockery
- [41:05]
C
with all the gold in the toilet. Gold toilet.
- [41:07]
B
So that it's just a mockery, right? Yeah. So, I mean, it's fine. You're not bothered by it?
- [41:12]
A
Oh, hell, no.
- [41:13]
C
Yeah, oh, hell.
- [41:14]
B
In fact, if they needed donation, I
- [41:17]
A
would have given them something.
- [41:19]
B
But, yeah, you know, it keeps it real for him that we have a
- [41:24]
A
Little freedom of speech here.
- [41:26]
B
We can still protest you, mock you
- [41:28]
C
like they did with this statue of
- [41:29]
B
Epstein and him Best friends forever. We were just talking to people and it's become very popular, it seems.
- [41:35]
C
Yeah, well, my dad and my husband
- [41:38]
A
both told me about it. They saw it on Rachel last night
- [41:40]
C
and so I was like, okay, I'm
- [41:42]
A
gonna go there and see it. And I just walked by the Institute
- [41:45]
C
of Peace with Donald J. Trump's name slapped on it.
- [41:49]
A
Like I feel like I'm in North Korea.
- [41:50]
B
Might as well have a golden toilet.
- [41:53]
A
It's a perfect, perfect representation of what has happened to our country.
- [41:58]
C
It's.
- [41:58]
A
Yeah, it's sad.
- [42:01]
B
Well, thank you very much. It is sad. And really saw some really nice people down there on the National Mall. And yes, the general consensus among the people that we spoke with down on the mall today with the golden toilet is that they are really pissed at Donald Trump right now. Donald Trump, you have gotten yourself into a major jam. You have gotten yourself into some deep doo doo with the American people. The polls, I think are pretty obvious right now. When you are at 35% approval among the American people, your numbers are in the shitter. Donald Trump. And you know, it seems to me that people are catching on to this. We saw this with the no Kings protests over the weekend. Eight million people at 3,000, some odd different events all around the country all rising up to say they don't want a king in this country, they don't want a dictator in this country. They don't want a wannabe tyrant who's who plasters gold all over the Oval Office, who knocks down the east wing of the White House and starts building a monstrosity of a ballroom. And he says it's gonna cost $400 million and it's paid for with private donations. If anybody believes that, please, you need to have your head examined. It's not working correctly. It's definitely going to cost more than that. And at some point the public will be paying for this. I just want to assure everybody of that. And then we have to go back and look at this. This next nutty thing that the Trump family wants to build his impossibly insane. It's so insane, it's got to be impossible. Presidential library that they want to build in Miami, Florida. We should show this again. And I just, you know, I don't know who's going to pay for this. It looks like it would cost a trillion dollars. Maybe Elon Musk will bankroll the whole friggin thing. It looks like Trump Tower. And, and of course, there's a Mar A Lago style patio. Everything he does these days has to have a patio where people get rich, people can go hang. The oligarchs could go hang out and clink champagne glasses. And there's the, the presidential plane that he's going to get, the Air Force One plane he's going to get from Qatar. He says he's gotten it for the American people, but no, he's just going to park it in his damn library. And as one of the viewers, I don't know why there are fighter jets in there. I don't think. Are we giving him fighter jets? That's another question that we need to ask. And of course, there's a giant theater. There's no way there will ever be this many people in the theater. And I don't know what this is. You know, these are some other things. I guess they're going to try to put a golden ballroom inside his presidential library. These are the things that they think are accomplishments of his. Putting the gold shit everywhere, they think is one of his accomplishments. No, an accomplishment would be to keep the country out of war. You said during the campaign, Donald Trump, that there would be no endless wars. There would be no forever wars. And now you're putting up truth social post telling our friends and allies around the world that if you want some oil, just go and take it. That's his style of presidential leadership these days, to just wreck, to wreck everything. To throw down his toys and tell everybody and tell mom and dad they have to clean up his mess. And I'm just going to lay it out here for maga. I'm going to lay it out here for the Republicans up on Capitol Hill. They are. The people around the world are tired of cleaning up Donald Trump's dirty diapers. And the American people are getting really tired of cleaning up after his messes. And so I, to me, the golden toilet symbolizes everything. It symbolizes everything right now, Donald Trump, you shouldn't even get a presidential library after the damage you've done to this country, after the damage you've done to this democracy, after the damage that you've done to the American people and to immigrants into vulnerable communities, the damage that you have done. There is no world in which it makes sense where you get a presidential library. And it seems to me the only thing that makes sense for Donald Trump to get at the end of all this is give him a goddamn golden toilet. Give him a golden toilet and send him on his way. Give him a golden toilet and flush. That's what the American people need to do. With Donald Trump, it's time to flush. Sometimes you gotta flush twice. Ladies and gentlemen, we flushed once in 2020, ladies and gentlemen, Mr. Mrs. America, it's time to flush again. And with that, I want to thank Larry Sabato for joining me today. My thanks to Ty Cobb. My thanks to all of you for watching. If you can please support the show. Independent journalism does matter in this country, and it does matter when you support, support independent media. So if you can subscribe, like, share this episode with your friends and, and say that, you know, Jim was talking about Donald Trump's golden. Yes, feel free. You have my permission to share that with your friends and neighbors. We did talk about his golden today. And. But no, in all seriousness, it does make a huge difference when you can help support this program. And for those of you out here, out there who do it on a regular basis, our thanks to you, you make all of this happen. We're able to put these kinds of programs together for you. We're able to go down to the National Mall and talk to people and talk about Donald Trump's golden toilet, which he should get instead of a presidential library. That's all he should get, is a golden toilet. But we can do stories like this because of the support that you give to this program each and every day. And I thank you for that. But in the meantime, still reporting from Washington, I'm Jim Acosta. I'll see you next time.