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The Jim Acosta Show
Liz Oyer on Trump's Pardon Hypocrisy! Pardons for Profit? Plus Maria Cardona on Trump's MRI BS.
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- [00:00]
Maria Cardona
Foreign.
- [00:06]
Jim Acosta
Hey, everybody. Welcome to the Jim Acosta Show. And it's another day that ends in Y and Donald Trump's abuse of the pardon power. Over the Thanksgiving holiday weekend, while families were gathering to say thanks, a convicted drug trafficker was thanking Donald Trump for giving him a pardon. That's while his defense department was blowing up alleged drug traffickers in the Caribbean and, and perhaps committing war crimes in the process. I found the perfect person, of course, to talk about this. It's Liz Oyer, the former part attorney over at the Department of Justice. Liz's videos on Instagram, if you haven't seen them, are indispensable. And of course, she's on substack too, and she joins us now. Liz, great to see you and happy holidays. We're in the throes of it now, I guess.
- [00:47]
Liz Oyer
Same to you, Jim. Thanks for having me on.
- [00:49]
Jim Acosta
Yeah. And so Trump is pardoning turkeys. He's pardoning drug traffickers who happen to be a president of Honduras. And, and apparently there's no hypocrisy whatsoever that he's doing this while they're possibly committing war crimes. That's according to Democratic lawmakers. You know, droning these people, firing missiles at these drug, alleged drug traffickers in the Caribbean and hitting some fishermen in the process, which, that's a whole other thing we can get into. And Pete Hegseth was posting tweets, making light of it in a really disgusting way. But I mean, Liz, your thoughts on this? Because, I mean, I think a big conversation that folks were having around the holidays that, that we saw over the weekend was about this abuse of the pardon power all over again. We're seeing it happen again.
- [01:37]
Maria Cardona
Yeah.
- [01:38]
Liz Oyer
This is really the most unprincipled use of the pardon power that we have ever seen in history. Trump's pardons go directly against the policies that he's trying to enact on other fronts. You pointed it with this recent pardon of Juan Orlando Hernandez, who was one of the largest international drug traffickers in modern history. He transported or was responsible for transporting over 400 tons of cocaine into the United States. That's billions of doses of drugs into America. This is precisely the type of conduct that Donald Trump is saying he is committed to ending. It's the reason that he is supposedly the reason that he's blowing boats out of the water. And it is just impossible to reconcile why he would pardon someone like this while he is pursuing this aggressive anti drug agenda. It's notable that this guy had been under investigation dating back to Trump's first presidency and a tremendous amount of US national security resources and law enforcement resources went into bringing this extensive, sprawling drug conspiracy case. Orlando Hernandez went to prison just last year for 45 years. So he served a year of his sentence and Donald Trump cut him loose, setting him free with a complete pardon. It's also notable that he became incredibly wealthy selling drugs. He was ordered by a court to forfeit about $15 million in drug proceeds. So that's money that he made and retained on this drug operation and that presumably will be wiped out by the pardon that he receives. So he'll get his money back. He' get, you know, an apology from the United States and go back to doing his business.
- [03:26]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, I mean, and the New York Times had an incredible write up on this over the weekend. And it says that Juan Her, Orlando Hernandez once boasted that he would, quote, stuff the drugs up the gringo's noses. And he once took a one million dollar bribe from El Chapo to allow cocaine shipments to pass through Honduras. And a man was killed in prison to protect him. I mean, this is not just, you know, the President was looking the other way. You know, the President of Honduras was looking the other way while this stuff was going on. He was involved.
- [03:55]
Liz Oyer
Yeah, this is the kind of stuff out of movies. I mean, this is not your, your corner drug dealer. This is a major operator internationally who is essentially allowing his country to be used as a pass through to ship drugs from other parts of Latin America to the United States. So this is a really, really big player who's getting this pardon, which is just, I mean, I cannot overstate how unusual, how extraordinary for someone selling drugs on this scale, responsible for this type of destruction to get a pardon. The other piece of it is that people in Honduras are quite upset about this because this is someone who wrecked his country. He, he made it so corrupt and so violent that people were fleeing the country in droves. It was at one point, under his leadership, believed to be the most violent and most corrupt country on earth. Since I've posted my video on Instagram about this, a number of people from Honduras have reached out to me to express how absolutely shocked and disgusted they are by this decision because he did so much lasting, enduring damage to the country of Honduras. He's really just the profile of the type of person you would never in a million years expect to be considered for a presidential pardon. It's quite shocking, right?
- [05:13]
Jim Acosta
And his reign as President of Honduras, of course, resulted in the destabilization of his country, which probably resulted in people migrating towards the United States. And so, I mean, it also flies in the face of what Trump wants to do on immigration. You know, he doesn't want people coming to this country, but he's not willing to help deter some of the conditions that are causing that migration, I would think, in some cases. And so it's not surprising to me that you we're hearing from people in Honduras. That's just incredible, Liz, that you heard that as well. And then the other thing that happened over the last few days is that we learned that he's commuted the seven year sentence of a former private equity CEO, David Gentile, I believe is his name. Y He was sentenced to seven years in prison on wire and security fraud charges. This is a report from NBC. And he was not in the custody of the Bureau of prisons as of November 26th. So he was released, but apparently he served just a brief period of time. Right. And then he was sprung loose, not fully pardoned, but he had a sentence commuted. And this was somebody who was committing all sorts of fraud, defrauding investors, people who were just like you and me, regular folks who are investors and lost a lot of money.
- [06:26]
Liz Oyer
Yeah, that's exactly right. This is someone who perpetrated a $1.6 billion fraud. He was running essentially a Ponzi scheme. He attracted over a billion dol in investments and the whole thing was a fraud. Many of his investors lost their retirement savings, reportedly thousands of his investors. And by the way, there were 17,000 people who invested with this man. Thousands of them were reportedly retirees who lost their savings. There were over a thousand victim impact statements submitted to the court that sentenced this man from people who were deeply harmed by losing their money, by entrusting their money to this man and being cheated out of it. Now, Trump's commutation essentially relieved him of his prison sentence and wiped out his obligation to repay any financial penalties that he owes in connection with this crime. So that, again, is quite a shocking use of the pardon power. Gentile had actually just reported to prison on November 14. He had been in prison for 12 days before Donald Trump sent him home on November 26, just in time for Thanksgiving so that he could have Thanksgiving dinner with his family. Family. A heartwarming story for that one family, and really a truly devastating one for thousands of other families who were harmed by this individual.
- [07:44]
Jim Acosta
It's really incredible. And you know, the thing that is is just so shocking to me is that, you know, we have this sort of archaic pardon power system that the President of the United States can just Totally exploit. And Donald Trump is just like he does with any loophole he finds anywhere. You know, he tries to drive a Mack truck through it. And he's done that in this, in these pardons. It's happening over and over again. And it makes me wonder, is there anything. There's really nothing that can be done to reform the pardon power unless you basically change the Constitution. But it sounds. It sounds as though something like that is needed because of what this. I mean, it's like a vulnerability in our constitutional system.
- [08:27]
Maria Cardona
Yeah.
- [08:27]
Liz Oyer
So I don't want folks to lose sight of the fact that the pardon power was put in the Constitution for a good reason, which was to allow the president to show mercy to those who earned and deserved it. That is not how it's being used currently. So this president has totally lost sight of that core principle. And unfortunately, he does have unfettered discretion to do essentially whatever he wants with the pardon power. What is really exacerbating this situation is that he is not being transparent about what he's doing. He's not accepting, explaining the rationale for these very unusual, very controversial clemencies to the American people. He is not even announcing these grants of clemency. Probably sometimes they're being uncovered by the media or others just by happenstance. So it's possible there may be more of these out there, Jim, that we just haven't yet discovered. And he has created a huge market, a lobbying market around pardons. People are paying connected lobbyists and lawyers hundreds of thousands and even in some cases, millions of dollars, try to get them pardons. That is a real problem around transparency. And our Congress could do much more to demand transparency from this president around the pardons that he's granting without going so far as to amend the Constitution. Congress could require disclosures about who is lobbying for and representing these pardon applicants and how much they're being paid. They could require that the president promptly announce when he grants a pardon or a commutation. They could require that he explain himself to the American people, that he just justify the decisions that he's making. But that right now, is not something that Congress is asking him to do, which is quite surprising, because I think there are people on both sides of the political spectrum who have real concerns about the damage that this president is doing with these pardons.
- [10:18]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, that's fascinating. And I do want to relay sort of a story that I have from the end of the first Trump administration, because there was all this speculation towards the end of that first term that he was going to Pardon people like Steve Bannon. And it was sort of people were lining up, you know, lobbyists were lining up from K Street to say, hey, can you pardon this person? Can you pardon that person? And I don't think the American people are really tuned in to this industry that you mentioned, that there's an industry here in Washington that basically is, is, you know, set up to bring these pardon applicants to the Justice Department's attention, which I guess brings it to the White House attention. But it's. That sounds to me that there may be cases where they're just going straight to the White House through connections and getting Trump to say, or somebody at the White House to say, the Justice Department, hey, we're doing this. I mean, it seems to me that a lot of people are making a lot of money here in Washington doing something that's pretty, pretty under the table and underhanded, let's just say.
- [11:14]
Liz Oyer
That's exactly right. I mean, pardons are essentially for sale under, under Donald Trump. There's a whole economy that has cropped up around them. The ordinary process for seeking a pardon has essentially collapsed. There is a nonpartisan office within the Department of Justice that I used to lead called the Office of the Pardon Attorney that is supposed to be vetting these candidates and making recommendations to the president based on merit. That vetting process has totally collapsed. Many people, most people aren't even bothering to apply through the Office of the Pardon Attorney. They're just going straight to the White House and they're getting pardons based on political and financial considerations that are totally separate from the merits of their case. Most of the people we've seen get pardons during this Trump administration are people whose cases don't have any merit, but they're leveraging political connections and getting pardons anyway. It's really quite corrupt.
- [12:07]
Jim Acosta
It's, it's corruption. It's Trump style corruption, no question about it. And Caroline Levitt, I guess she had a press briefing today where you don't get a whole lot of information. You just get a lot of talking and sound bites and stuff. But anyway, she was asked about, I believe, the pardoning of the Honduran, former Honduran president here. Let's listen to what she had to say.
- [12:28]
Caroline Levitt
And then on this pardon for the Honduran president, does it at all undercut the administration's messaging? While you have these Congressional Republicans defending the strikes on monarch terrorists and then a pardon for a convicted drug trafficker, does that make it more difficult for your members to defend your administration's policies? I don't think so, Jackie. I think that President Trump has been quite clear in his defense of the United States homeland to stop these illegal narcotics from coming to our borders, whether that's by land or by sea. And he's also made it quite clear that he wants to correct the wrongs of the weaponized Justice Department under the previous administration. And Weija, I'll call in.
- [13:11]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, I mean, the last part that she said about the weaponized Justice Department, that was another thing that we heard, I believe, from Trump where he said, oh, that this Honduran president, they went after him because he was the president. It was almost as though Trump was kind of relating in a criminal sense to this former Honduran president. You know, take, you know, taking issue with the fact that they went after the president of Honduras because of the drug trafficking that went on. But this, this guy was intimately involved in this, this narco trafficking that was going on that was passing through Honduras. And so. But it's interesting to hear Trump frame it in that fashion and the White House to frame it in that fashion.
- [13:50]
Liz Oyer
Yeah, I mean, that's becoming a very common, very tired refrain. All of these pardons are supposedly to push back against or correct the weaponization of justice by the Biden administration, but factually, it just doesn't hold up. This is an investigation that dates back to Trump's first presidency, and it's a case that was prosecuted into his second presidency. This guy, Orlando Hernandez, was sentenced in May of this year. And Donald Trump, Trump's U.S. attorney, actually asked for a 15 year prison sentence. I'm sorry, sorry, this was, I'm sorry, this was gentile. Who, who's us?
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Jim Acosta
The U.S. oh, gentile.
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Liz Oyer
They did that with a 15 year prison sentence and he got seven years. Hernandez, same thing. He was sentenced under this. He was sentenced in an investigation that began under Trump's first presidency. So it just doesn't hold up the idea that this is all a product of the Biden administration. Frankly, you don't build a sophisticated case against a major international drug traff trafficker in a short period of time. It's something that in this case took about a decade, and it spanned multiple presidential administrations. And same thing with the prosecution we talked about of David Gentile, which took many years to build because it was a very large, very sophisticated financial fraud. In earlier this year, Trump's own US Attorney was touting this sentence as a victory for investors, for people who were cheated, said that, you know, fraud, committing fraud is a one way ticket to jail. That sort of thing. And then Donald Trump just swoops in and undercuts his own Justice Department by granting this guy a commutation and by granting the other guy a pardon. It really just doesn't. The logic of this being a weaponization thing that was particular to the Biden administration is just not supported by the facts.
- [15:35]
Jim Acosta
Well, and the other underlying issue here, Liz, is, and you know this, and it's just sort of an automatic thing, but the folks at home may not not fully appreciate this, and that is that going after drug traffickers, going after fraudsters, that's a bipartisan tradition that a professional Justice Department does. And the reason why you need to have a professional Justice Department that isn't totally politicized, which is what Donald Trump wants to do with this doj, is that you can go from administration to administration and prosecuting dangerous people, prosecuting people who are narco traffickers or fraudsters who rip off little old ladies and steal their retirements. I mean, that's, that's why you want a non politicized Justice Department of professionals. And they've just, they're cleaning out the place with these kinds of shenanigans.
- [16:25]
Liz Oyer
Yeah, that's exactly right. These complex crimes take a long time to investigate and build a case. And it is very common that they span multiple administrations because they are not political in nature. Everyone can agree that cheating retirees out of their life savings is wrong and we want to stop that type of conduct. So that prosecution was not political. Everyone agrees that stopping the flow of massive quantities of drugs into the United States from foreign countries is a prosecutorial priority that we should embrace. So it's just not political. What's happening, what's happening here with these particular prosecutions? This is, that's just a made up theme that Donald Trump is spinning for lack of any other explanation. I think the true explanation goes back to political considerations and financial considerations. And I hope that some sharp investigative reporters are digging into the finances of all of these folks so that we can follow the money and trace what exactly Trump and those in his orbit are getting from these very dangerous and damaging clemency grants that he is making.
- [17:31]
Jim Acosta
Absolutely. And that's where these upcoming midterms come into play. Because if you have Democrats taking power, for example, in the House, they can have oversight hearings, they can hold hearings in the Judiciary Committee to get to the bottom of these things. You can subpoena members of the administration may not respond to those subpoenas, but you can issue subpoenas to see if they will come and answer these questions. But we need to get to the bottom of exactly what you were saying. It's the old Washington adage from Watergate. Follow the money. Find out how these high profile cases are getting to Donald Trump's desk and why aren't they going through the normal pardon attorney process over at the Justice Department? To me, that is going to uncover a whole corrupt network that I think is just, I mean, they're just going, they're just going gangbusters these days bringing these kinds of cases to Trump.
- [18:19]
Liz Oyer
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And we've seen some examples of that. It came out recently that this guy, Joseph Schwartz, who received clemency for another massive fraud scheme, he got that after he's paid almost a million dollars hiring two mega connected lob to try to get him a pardon. We saw that this person, Paul Walsack, who was a nursing home executive in Florida, perpetrated another massive fraud. He got a pardon after his mother paid a million dollars to attend a dinner with the President at Mar A Lago. We saw this guy, Trevor Milton, get a pardon after he donated $1.8 million to Trump's campaign and he hired the Attorney General's brother as his lawyer. So we're seeing examples of people leveraging these connections successfully, but we don't have a full accounting of it. And that is something that our members of Congress should be demanding from the president.
- [19:15]
Jim Acosta
Absolutely. Yeah. In Washington, in Donald Trump's district of corruption here in Washington. You have to follow the money. That is the name of the game. Well, Liz, always great to talk to you. Really appreciate all of your insights. Remember, you can follow Liz on substack at Liz Oyer, also lawyer, oiler on Instagram. You're. You're all over the place, though, Liz. I mean.
- [19:36]
Liz Oyer
That's right, I am. Thanks so much for having me on your show.
- [19:39]
Jim Acosta
You must be so gratified that. Absolutely. You must be so gratified that people love this stuff.
- [19:44]
Liz Oyer
You know, I'm not gratified that there are worse and worse pardons.
- [19:47]
Jim Acosta
Seemingly that's true.
- [19:48]
Liz Oyer
To talk about. I am glad that people are engaged and interested, but, you know, it's really just shocking that these pardons continue to get worse and worse.
- [19:57]
Jim Acosta
It really is. And it doesn't get much worse than pardoning a narco trafficker who used to be working with El Chapo, but. All right, Liz, great to see you. Thanks again.
- [20:06]
Liz Oyer
Thank you, Jim.
- [20:07]
Jim Acosta
All right, take care. All right. Yeah. And, and I mean, the corruption doesn't stop here in Washington, D.C. the corruption does not Take a holiday break. It does not go off on a four day weekend. There's no Black Fridays in Donald Trump's district of corruption. But we've got to hold his feet to the fire. And somebody who helps me hold his feet to the fire on, on a number of occasions is my father, my friend Maria Cardona, who joins me now. Maria? I, I kind of don't know where to begin. There was so much that happened. I, I was trying to take a little bit of a break and put down my phone over the Thanksgiving holiday, and you just can't do it. It's insanity.
- [20:44]
Maria Cardona
It's utterly impossible. You and I exchanged Happy Thanksgiving messages as we always do. And then I was gonna start in and I was like, you know what? Let me, let me, let Jim take a break. I should probably take a break too. But at that point, so many things were already in play. One of the things that I think is now gaining momentum and, and I'm glad about this because I thought for a moment it was going to be sort of shoved under the rug is this whole issue of Pete Hegseth.
- [21:17]
Jim Acosta
Right.
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Maria Cardona
The possible war crimes because of these insane orders that he's giving. I think it's now 80 boats that they have blown up off the coast of Venezuela.
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Jim Acosta
Yes.
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Maria Cardona
And this, this order that now has a spotlight on it where he said, we need to kill everyone, including the survivors.
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Jim Acosta
The survivors. That's right.
- [21:39]
Maria Cardona
This to me was just so insane. And I know this to you also was just, you know, in, in, in a, in an administration of insanity and chaos. We can't look away on this specific one. I mean, there's so many things that we can't look away, but this. And what I'm happy to see is that Republicans are really concerned about this too, Jim.
- [22:01]
Jim Acosta
Yeah.
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Maria Cardona
As many of them are now on the record saying if the facts are, as people have been reporting, that is a war crime.
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Jim Acosta
That's right.
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Maria Cardona
And perhaps not just a war crime because we're not technically at war with Venezuela, which is one of the big issues here, one of the big problems here. But straight out, a straight out crime. Murder.
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Jim Acosta
Yeah. And so, I mean, that's the thing. And, and you know, he wants to call it the Department of War, but it, it may be becoming the Department of War Crimes.
- [22:31]
Maria Cardona
Yeah.
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Jim Acosta
And you know, the AP was saying, you know, that Trump's going to meet with his national security team to talk about what, you know, Hegseth had. Has been doing. Apparently issued a verbal order in September to strike an alleged drug vessel. This, according to the AP a second time to kill any survivors. And NBC is reporting that both the House and the Senate have started inquiries into that so called second strike on that drug boat, alleged drug boat in the Caribbean. And we should note, Maria, in some of these cases, it's been reported that they were just fishermen being killed. And so, you know, I had Jim Himes, the ranking Dem on the House Intelligence Committee on recently, and he was saying they're basically murdering people in the Caribbean. Typically, what happens is the Coast Guard shows up, up, they, they interdict these drug boats, they arrest the people and they have trials and so on. And this is the way it's been done for years and years in Democratic Republican administrations. And what you have happening now under Pete Hegseth and under Donald Trump, because he loves to pull these stunts, is they're just droning and striking and blowing up these boats. Judge, jury and executioner. And look, look what Pete Hegseth put up on Twitter. Let's show this. Just disgusting. It wasn't the, at Secretary of War account. At least there was, there was some modicum of decency, I suppose, in this. He put it on his own personal Twitter account, if you can believe that. But he says, for your Christmas wish list. And then there is a picture of the, the cartoon character Franklin targeting narco terrorists and, you know, shooting a missile at, at these boats. Absolutely disgusting. Absolutely appalling. And, you know, so disgraceful. This is the Secretary of Defense. I mean, dude, what the, what the hell?
- [24:13]
Maria Cardona
Yeah, and this, this I think is one of those things, Jim, that should turn all of our stomachs.
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Jim Acosta
Yeah.
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Maria Cardona
Because he's, he's making fun. He's making fun of a situation that could, and hopefully the process will see it through, land him in jail.
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Jim Acosta
Yeah.
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Maria Cardona
But the fact that he's making fun of it, Jim, tells me that he doesn't think he's going to be held accountable because right now no one in the Trump administration is being held accountable.
- [24:42]
Jim Acosta
Nobody.
- [24:43]
Maria Cardona
But what I am hoping, and I just kind of want to point out some hypocrisy here right to Liz. And it was an amazing conversation, so enlightening. But they're doing this in Venezuela because they're supposedly going after the drug cartels because they're so concerned about all the drugs coming into the country, yet he pardons someone who is guilty of literally saying that he is going to shove cocaine and the drugs up American noses. Give me an effing break, Jim.
- [25:17]
Jim Acosta
I know. I mean, to me it's, it's, it's total Hypocrisy on a grand scale. And Donald Trump doesn't care because, you know, he's just, he's just declared the White House open for business. The pardon office is open for business. His K Street buddies are cashing in, it seems, bringing these, these high profile cases to Trump and trying to get them pardoned without the public, you know, noticing. Although these things usually get reported out. So I don't know what they think they're going to get away with. But getting back to Pete Hegseth, I mean, you've got Democrats and Republicans who are starting to say this might be war crimes. But you and I both know, Maria, speaking of the pardon power, Donald Trump is going to pardon people like Pete Hegseth. Death on the way out.
- [26:00]
Maria Cardona
Yeah, no, I think that's exactly right. And that's why Pete feels like he can just be as, as nonchalant and flippant about a war crime as he has been. And using Franklin, you know, I read Franklin to my children. I'm so insulted by this. And I hope that the author and the publisher of the Franklin books, they're Canadian. This wonderful Canadian woman, I think her first name is Paulette. I hope she sues the hell out of him. Yeah, that is gross that he is using this beloved children's character to underscore his antipathy, his hatefulness, his disregard for the law. And there are a couple things that I want to point out. You know, when I posted about this and every time I post about Hegseth being possibly guilty of a war crime, you know, we get all the MAGA hate. I'm sure you're, you are very used to it. I am very used to it. But they say to me things like, well, Maria, you know, you and the Democrats love criminals. You love the cartels that are poisoning our country. So I just kind of want to set the record straight for the sane people out there who might not be so focused on this as we are. These boats, these Venezuelan boats that have been blown up by the administration, there is zero proof that they are the drug traffickers that the administration says they are. The administration has offered no intelligence, no brief. They've offered some classified briefings, but in these classified briefings, I am told that they offer absolutely no evidence whatsoever that they are actual drug runners. And in fact, the people in intelligence who understand how drug cartels function say you don't. If you are really running drugs, you're going to have as few people on board as possible because you want to have as much room for the drugs as you can. And these boats were full of people.
- [28:01]
Jim Acosta
Right.
- [28:01]
Maria Cardona
Number one. Number two, those drugs were not coming, or at least the, the, the, the path of those boats were not to the United States. They were going elsewhere.
- [28:12]
Jim Acosta
That's right. So I think part of this is that. I think part of it is.
- [28:15]
Maria Cardona
Make no sense.
- [28:16]
Liz Oyer
Sense.
- [28:16]
Jim Acosta
No, no. And I think part of this is that Donald Trump and Pete Hagseth and, and the MAGA people in the administration, they want to be able to say we can do illegal things.
- [28:27]
Maria Cardona
Yeah.
- [28:27]
Jim Acosta
They want to be able to say we can be brutal, we can be ugly, we can blow people up, we can murder people, and there's nothing you can do about it. And that, to me, I think, is at the heart of this, is that it goes back to the policy of, of cruelty. It goes back to the heart of maga, which is a policy, a posture, a, A mission statement, if you will. Of cruelty. Cruelty is the point. And I mean, the other, the other thing that we have to connect to all of this. I mean, look what's taken place in the aftermath of Donald Trump blaming immigration on what took place with the, with the, the shootings of those National Guard members, which is a horrible thing. It's very sad. Everybody in Washington has just been absolutely shocked over this. But, you know, Trump has been saying he wants to step up denaturalizing immigrants. And Caroline Levitt said today that mass deportations must continue after this, after this shooting attack that occurred last week. She said in the wake of last week's shooting atrocity, it is more important than ever to finish carrying out the President's mass deportation operation. America cannot allow millions upon millions of unvetted illegal aliens, she said, to be rewarded with amnesty. And, you know, it's, it's disgusting because, I mean, it was reported, Marie, I'm sure you saw the reporting that there was a friend of this shooter who said that he was dealing with mental issues that he had. He drove all the way from Washington state to carry this out. This is not an immigration issue.
- [30:08]
Maria Cardona
It's. It is tragic. And this, you're right, the immigration status should have absolutely nothing to do with this.
- [30:17]
Jim Acosta
Right.
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Maria Cardona
And in fact, we need to remind people that the folks that have been let into this country under both Democratic and Republican administrations, under asylum or as refugees, are the most vetted people in the world. It takes years for someone to go through the kind of vet that you need in order to come here. So.
- [30:42]
Jim Acosta
And law abiding, too, by the way.
- [30:44]
Maria Cardona
Absolutely. And, and let's remind people, because we know that the administration loves to point fingers as they've been doing. Yeah, this individual received asylum under the first Trump administration.
- [30:57]
Jim Acosta
Right.
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Maria Cardona
So they, you know, if they want to point fingers, then they have some to blame as well. But to your earlier point, that's not the issue. But we do know that Trump will use whatever excuse, whatever to weaponize the issue of immigration, to con, not just to continue mass deportations, Jim, but to expand them to get to the foreign born. And he even said this in his screed again over the weekend that you and I exchange messages about his screed about the 53 million foreign born Americans here in the United States. He wants to denaturalize those who are, you know, anti American and who want to do us harm. And we know that's code for he will denaturalize anyone he feels he. That doesn't like him, that is not bending the knee to him. And by the way, I am a naturalized citizen, My brothers are naturalized citizens. We know so many people who are naturalized citizens. And so, I mean, this is kind of terrifying to hear this administration and Donald Trump speaking about this, because we know that this is something that they want to embark on and they have.
- [32:17]
Jim Acosta
And that they have been embarking on.
- [32:19]
Maria Cardona
Any excuse to be able to move forward on this.
- [32:22]
Jim Acosta
Right. And, and I mean, the other thing that we have to keep in mind is, remember these videos? Keep in mind these videos, these horrible ICE videos that we've all been watching in horror over the last six months or so, you know, if they want to go and denaturalize people, which I don't. That's not even constitutional. They want to denaturalize people who are naturalized U. S. Citizens. That is bananas when you think, when you think about that for more than five seconds, it is bananas. And so now he wants to sic ICE on people that they're trying to denaturalize, which of course in Donald Trump's warped mind means non white people.
- [32:56]
Maria Cardona
That's exactly.
- [32:57]
Jim Acosta
That's all they want to do. And the issue of that took place with this National Guard shooting. I mean, it was totally tragic. There's no question about it. You have mentally ill people who can get guns anytime they want in this country. I talked about this on my show last Friday. Mentally ill people. Right now, there is probably a mentally ill, mentally ill person somewhere in this country buying a gun. It happens all the time in this country. And I just, you know, to me it is, it is Donald Trump scapegoating immigrants once again, because this is what he does it's, it's how it, you know, it's like breathing to him.
- [33:32]
Maria Cardona
Yeah, that is, that's exactly right, Jim. And I also think it's important to remind people that, you know, when Trump says things like, you know, we have to close our borders, we have to, you know, deport everyone who was not born here, which is essentially what he's saying. Right. That it is not the danger that Americans face. Most of it is, is still going to come from domestic native born Americans.
- [34:07]
Jim Acosta
Right.
- [34:07]
Maria Cardona
We have to underscore that the immigrant population commits crimes at far, far lower rates than the native born American population.
- [34:18]
Jim Acosta
We've talked about this before.
- [34:19]
Maria Cardona
Yep, that's exactly right. But that, you know, that is, that is a fact. We know that this administration is allergic to facts. They don't care about truth. But I think then it's important to point out that yet they are putting their Republican majorities in peril by doubling down on these horrific, disgraceful, anti American, un American values because the majority of the American population does not like this, thinks it's horrific. That's why you see Donald Trump's poll numbers continuing to tank. Think he's, I think at the worst numbers that he has had in his first or in his, oh yeah, 36.
- [35:06]
Jim Acosta
Gallup poll, I think.
- [35:08]
Maria Cardona
Exactly, exactly. So going into the midterm elections, Donald Trump might not care because he's not on the ballot, but it is going to enable Democrats finally to put some brakes on, to put some checks. This authoritarian imperial presidency that Donald Trump has been, you know, just bathing in freely without any checks on him whatsoever. And I think you're now starting to see definitely not enough of them, but some Republicans who are in peril next year. Republicans in swing states. That's right, swing districts starting to think, oh shit, I need to either do what my constituents want to or am I going to continue to genuflect at the altar of Donald Trump?
- [36:00]
Jim Acosta
That's right.
- [36:01]
Maria Cardona
Have the constituents kick me out.
- [36:03]
Jim Acosta
And they're not just freaked out in, in swing districts, Maria, they're freaked out in safe Republican districts like Tennessee. Let's show a little bit of Doc Afton, Afton Bain. I interviewed her last week. She's running for Congress in Tennessee in a special election. It's happening tomorrow. For people who are tuning in, wondering when is it's happening tomorrow. This is a district that Donald Trump won by 22 points last year in the November election of last year. Afton Bain has closed this thing to like two points apparently. And Trump earlier today called into Mike, they Flew Mike Johnson into this district.
- [36:36]
Maria Cardona
Yep.
- [36:37]
Jim Acosta
Earlier in the day. And he, they had Donald Trump call Mike Johnson and he held the phone up to the voters in Tennessee to try to rally Republicans to, to vote for the guy that they're backing against after being. Let's play a little bit of this video. I had to chuckle when I saw.
- [36:52]
Caroline Levitt
Yes, absolutely has his speakerphone on. And I believe President Trump is trying to address the crowd.
- [36:57]
Jim Acosta
Let's listen in.
- [36:58]
Donald Trump
He's managing. Remember, he's got a majority of three. A majority of three. And there aren't many people can do that. But we have to win this seat. We've gotten you the largest tax cuts in history. And the new bill, the great big beautiful bill, kicks in, as you know, on January 1st.
- [37:17]
Jim Acosta
Oh, boy. You can hear how he's panicking. He's panicking.
- [37:23]
Donald Trump
If you borrow money to buy a car, you get a deduction. That's never happened before.
- [37:28]
Jim Acosta
You get free cars. You get free everything. Donald Trump's giving everything a fifty thousand.
- [37:33]
Maria Cardona
Dollar car, which is what now new cars cost.
- [37:35]
Jim Acosta
Yeah.
- [37:36]
Maria Cardona
Thanks to him. This, that was a thing of beauty. Jim, I'm so glad that you're showing it this wild.
- [37:42]
Jim Acosta
How, how panicked are they right now.
- [37:44]
Maria Cardona
That they have had to spend millions of dollars on a district that Trump won by 22 points? That is nothing less than embarrassing for the Republican Party.
- [37:57]
Jim Acosta
Wow.
- [37:58]
Maria Cardona
And, and, and I mean, I will, I will say, and I have said the fact that we're even talking about this, Democrats already won because, you know, most likely Republicans, the, the Republican will win, but who knows, right?
- [38:12]
Jim Acosta
Who the heck knows? I mean, we went into the New Jersey gubernatorial thing saying, oh, Mikey, Cheryl, she might not win. And then she won by 13 points. So we don't know until they vote. But I'm telling you right now, everyone.
- [38:25]
Maria Cardona
Get out there and vote. If you live in Tennessee, if you have friends in Tennessee in this district, get them out to vote. Can you imagine, Jim?
- [38:32]
Jim Acosta
Yeah.
- [38:32]
Maria Cardona
If Afton wins, this will be earth shattering for the.
- [38:37]
Jim Acosta
Earth shattering. Earth shattering.
- [38:39]
Maria Cardona
And what it will indicate, Jim, is that the country and American voters have had it with Donald Trump.
- [38:47]
Jim Acosta
It's a voter revolt.
- [38:48]
Maria Cardona
And the puppet Republicans who have essentially given up any of their power and you know what they've become? The Republicans in Congress are no longer a co. Equal independent arm of, of the United States government. They have become the legislative office of the Trump White House.
- [39:11]
Jim Acosta
Yes.
- [39:12]
Maria Cardona
Because they do everything that Trump wants them to do. And that is why they are in such deep right now.
- [39:19]
Jim Acosta
They're in deep it's getting deep around here, and they don't have their boots on, as my mother used to say. And the other thing is, the other thing that I think that they're in deep on is Donald Trump's health. And it is something they don't want to talk about. Donald Trump doesn't want to talk about. I guess they talked about a little bit at the White House today. I, I'm sure you saw this video. Donald Trump is coming back on Air Force One, and he's being asked about, you know, his recent MRI because Tim Walls, the governor of Minnesota, was saying, release the MRI because Trump called him the R word. And anyway, there's all this stuff that went back and forth. And so the reporter started asking Donald Trump, oh, what was the MRI for it? If we could play a little bit of that, we should play that because that is.
- [40:02]
Maria Cardona
Yeah, yeah, yeah, let's.
- [40:03]
Jim Acosta
Hilarious.
- [40:12]
Maria Cardona
Will you tell us what it was, Governor Walsh?
- [40:13]
Donald Trump
You mean the incompetent governor? So if they want to release it, it's okay with me to release it. It's perfect. It's like my phone call where I got it pitched. It's absolutely perfect. So if you want to hear about it or if you want to release it, you want to have it release. News Nation failing. Failing. News Nation. News Nation is doing, by the way. But if you want to have it released, I'll release it.
- [40:38]
Maria Cardona
You tell us what they were looking at.
- [40:40]
Donald Trump
For what? Releasing.
- [40:41]
Jim Acosta
No, no, no.
- [40:42]
Maria Cardona
What part of your body was the MRI looking at?
- [40:44]
Donald Trump
I have no idea. It was just an MRI record of the body. Because I took a cognitive test and I aced and I got a perfect bar, which you would be incapable of doing.
- [40:55]
Maria Cardona
If the cognitive test was to know what he was getting tested, then he completely failed.
- [41:02]
Jim Acosta
Well, and, you know, couple things, Maria. One is, you know, he insults whenever he's. He's insulted. I'm telling everybody, when he starts insulting the reporter, you are close to the target. You are very close. You're right over the target.
- [41:15]
Liz Oyer
So he's panicking.
- [41:16]
Jim Acosta
He is panicking. The internal defense mechanism of Donald Trump goes off where he freaks out and goes after the report. That is when you are picking at the right scab.
- [41:24]
Maria Cardona
You've lived this so many times.
- [41:26]
Jim Acosta
I have lived this. I can. I. It's like, I'm like a, I'm like a palm reader at this point. I can see the, the lines on his hands. But the other thing is, is that he, he's asked, asked, I think, by Ouija Jang of cbs. He's asked what part of the body was the MRI for? And he says, I don't know. And I just ask anybody out there who's ever had an mri, did you ever go get an MRI and not know what part of the body it was for? That's an insane lie. That is a total lie.
- [41:55]
Maria Cardona
Absolutely, absolutely. I mean, it just defies logic. Like you can't even wrap your brain around that.
- [42:02]
Jim Acosta
You can't wrap your brain around it. But I mean, it tells, but it tells me where you're there. They're freaked out. He is freaked out. Something's going on with his health. Now I will say that I'm just to be nice and be fair and everything. The White House did put out a little thing today saying Caroline Levitt said it was some sort of advanced imaging of his cardiovascular and something in his abdomen or something like that. And they said, oh, it was, it was perfect. It was wonderful. There's nothing wrong. Yeah, we don't believe you. We don't believe the, that you're spewing at any given point of the day.
- [42:36]
Maria Cardona
And here's why we shouldn't believe it.
- [42:39]
Jim Acosta
Right?
- [42:40]
Maria Cardona
Because you know this, you've gone through many releases of the, the normal routine health exams of presidents, Right. This MRI was not a routine, normal, run of the mill, scheduled exam. I've heard many doctors talk about this and they're concerned because something that you have to do with your stomach and then something that you have to do with, you know, the other organs that I think, I can't even remember. His heart, I believe.
- [43:16]
Jim Acosta
Yes.
- [43:16]
Maria Cardona
You know, while Caroline Levitt was saying that for a man his age, these tests are, you know, things that are performed. I, I, I believe that. But it's also true that you don't get them performed unless there is a concern.
- [43:34]
Jim Acosta
There's a. What's going on.
- [43:35]
Maria Cardona
Exactly. Even at that age, even at that age, you don't have them done unless the doctors, your doctors, your medical team has an issue, saw something, you know, and, or saw, saw some kind of behavior in, in Trump where they're concerned. And that.
- [43:55]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, they're saying it's part of his.
- [43:57]
Maria Cardona
Rule over American voters eyes.
- [43:59]
Jim Acosta
Yes, they're saying it's, it was part of his routine physical examination. In what world is an MRI part of a routine physical examination? I, I, who the hell knows what's going on? Nobody know. We don't know. Just like the pardons, just like the droning of the fishermen, we don't know and we don't accept their lies. Spewed from the podium because they've lied so much.
- [44:24]
Maria Cardona
Right. And you know what else, Jim? This comes on the heels, which is why I think Donald Trump is so pissed off about this topic. That New York Times article.
- [44:34]
Jim Acosta
Yes, that's right. The New York Times did the whole thing.
- [44:36]
Maria Cardona
And they got so furious, livid about this, where he's slowing down. His schedule isn't what it used to be. It isn't exactly. We. We've seen the video of him nodding off during meetings.
- [44:52]
Jim Acosta
Yep.
- [44:52]
Maria Cardona
And that is something.
- [44:54]
Jim Acosta
Where are the rallies?
- [44:55]
Maria Cardona
Almost 80 years old.
- [44:57]
Jim Acosta
Where are the rallies? Where are the press conferences? In Tennessee, There's a special congressional race.
- [45:02]
Maria Cardona
He.
- [45:03]
Jim Acosta
He phoned it in. He literally phoned it in.
- [45:05]
Maria Cardona
People.
- [45:06]
Jim Acosta
In the old days, he would have held a rally. Tim Miller from the Bulwark tweeted out this picture of Trump at Mar a Lago. That is not. I mean, that would make me lose my lunch if I saw that.
- [45:19]
Maria Cardona
Yeah.
- [45:20]
Jim Acosta
In the cafeteria at Mar a Lago. But apparently that was a picture of Donald Trump. Non. Touched up, apparently. I don't. This is what Tim Miller put out on Twitter. It does not look good. Yeah, it doesn't look good.
- [45:31]
Maria Cardona
That's exactly right. And you know. You know what the irony of ironies is here? It's like we're seeing the. The movie repeat itself, because this is what they accused the Biden administration of doing.
- [45:44]
Jim Acosta
Yes.
- [45:46]
Maria Cardona
And now they are in the hot seat.
- [45:49]
Jim Acosta
Now they're in it.
- [45:51]
Maria Cardona
They are in it. And. And it is now more obvious even than Biden because he's, you know, in. In this. In. As president. He's older than Biden ever was as president. And. And so now all of this criticism, which is completely fair criticism, they can't take it, and they are doubling down on their lies. And so American voters just need to be vigilant and need to understand that everything that is coming out of this White House is a lie. Misinformation, disinformation, a distraction. Oh, look at that shiny thing over there. I mean, who knows? Maybe that's why they're blowing up the boats.
- [46:31]
Jim Acosta
We're on to their act is what you're saying, Maria. We are on to their act.
- [46:36]
Maria Cardona
Absolutely.
- [46:36]
Jim Acosta
And the act isn't working anymore. When the guy that shows up at the Mar a Lago cafeteria looks like that, it. The act doesn't work anymore.
- [46:46]
Maria Cardona
No bueno, Jim.
- [46:47]
Jim Acosta
No bueno. Muy biejo. As my grandmother say. She would say, mira el viejo. She would say, look at the old guy. She would say when she there's some old guy that caught her. I'd be like, I would be like, wait, that is not a nice guy. It's not nice. But she was. I think that's where I got my sense of humor. But anyway, that's. We'll do that show another time. But, Maria, great to see you.
- [47:09]
Maria Cardona
Thank you so much, Jim. Great to see you as well. And please continue to have these conversations. I know, absolutely. They are so important. You know, American voters, like we were just saying, are on to him, are on to this administration. They are not having it. They know that our country has got to be much better than this. This is not who we are. This is not the country that my father brought my family to so many years ago. You. I know you feel the same way. So many immigrants feel the same way. But we are also hopeful because we're going to get rid of this administration, get rid of the Republican control of Congress, and we're going to start turning things around.
- [47:49]
Jim Acosta
I think you're right. I think you're on to something. Maria, thank you so much. Thanks for always coming on. You're the best. Happy holidays.
- [47:58]
Maria Cardona
Thank you.
- [47:59]
Jim Acosta
Thanks so much. And I think Maria is absolutely right. And, you know, let's, let's show the children's book that Pete Hegseth tweeted out of Franklin, the cartoon character. I mean, this is a cartoon character that my kids grew up watching and a beloved cartoon character to kids all over North America. And Pete Hexath thinks it's a funny joke to show Franklin blowing up boats in the Caribbean. That's his idea of a joke for your Christmas wish list is. Is what he says there. But the question I think at this point is, is that who we are? Is that who we are as a country? And I think the resounding answer that we got over this past weekend and I think into the days ahead is this is not who we are. We're not, we're not, not a country of, of cruel people who will just blow up boats because they're full of brown people, which is basically what this country is doing right now. And it's wrong and it needs to be called out. But there's something else going on here, and it flows out of the conversation I was just having. When the criticism starts to get too close to home, when you start to touch a nerve that is. Is pretty darn close to the truth and the heart of the matter, they start to freak out. They start to freak out. And their way of getting you to accept things like war crimes in The Caribbean is to, as that illustration just showed a few moments ago, of the children's book of Franklin blowing up drug boats, alleged drug boats. They want you to make their cruelty your cruelty. They want you to make their cruelty your cruelty. And the. The way they get you to accept war crimes in the Caribbean is if we put out a meme that owns the libs. If the meme owns the libs, then everything is okay. It doesn't matter if we're committing war crimes. It doesn't matter that. That we're doing something that is counter to every American principle of due process and abiding by what is considered to be international law when it comes to acts of war. The United States of America has always been the moral leader in that regard, at least it should be. And so the way they get around it is with cruelty. The way they get around with it is when they attack the messenger, when they attack the people who are asking the questions. When a reporter asks, what was that MRI for? And he says, oh, don't worry, I aced that cognitive test, something that you can't do. And when he calls a reporter the other day stupid because they're asking a question about the shooter who's already killed one National Guard member, and. And the other person is clinging to life, he calls that reporter stupid. Because that reporter is asking a very good question about the Trump administration's culpability in all of this. If you grant asylum to somebody who is in this country and commits that kind of act, if your administration is part of that paper trail, then you are, in essence, by virtue, responsible as well. But Donald Trump doesn't want you to know that. And so he attacks a reporter, calls her stupid because he thinks if he can make his cruelty, your cruelty, he can get away with it. Same thing when he ask about the Epstein files, you get called piggy. There's a pattern here, folks, and you have to recognize the pattern. Donald Trump goes on the attack. When you're touching that nerve, when you're getting close to the target, when you're getting close to the truth. And as. As I have observed time and again on this show, and as I have personally experienced, when you get. When you get close to the truth with Donald Trump, that's when he starts to freak out. And that's why, you know, he's phoning it in. In Tennessee, a Tennessee special election for an open congressional seat, the President of the United States can't get on a plane, can't go down to Tennessee and hold a rally. What's Going on with that. The old days of Donald Trump, first term Donald Trump, he would have been on a plane. They would have had a rally. They would have, they would have closed down an airport, some general aviation airport. They would have flown in Air Force One. The crowd would have gone wild. He would have walked down Air Force One. Remember all of that. He would go in front of the crowd, have a big rally, try to whip people up into a frenzy. And what did he do today? He called Mike Johnson. And Mike Johnson held the cell phone up to the microphone and they played it on Fox News. That's all he can do right now. Donald Trump has become the phone it in president. He's phoning it in, folks. There aren't any more press conferences. He just, he just has these little question and answer sessions where he screams at the reporter and calls them piggy and stupid and says they can't pass an IQ test or whatever, a cognitive test, whatever. He's talking about these. That's all he can do. He's the phone it in president. This is way bigger than grandpa needs a cookie. Apparently, Grandpa needed an mri, but they're not being straight with us about that. You don't go, you don't get an MRI with a routine physical, folks. But he's hoping that if he insults a reporter and Pete Hackseth is hoping if he makes light of war crimes that the base will forgive him, that the base will say, you know what? At least we own the libs on this one. It's not working anymore. It's not working. The gap. Latest Gallup poll, 36 approval rating, 60% disapprove of this presidency. Phoning it in, it just doesn't work. When you're president of the United States, Donald Trump, you got to do it in person. You got to be on the ground. You know, if you don't even have the time to fix the hair and put the bronzer on, you know, what, what's he doing? What are we doing as a country? Much was made of Joe Biden and his cognitive. Remember when Joe Biden would go out there and he'd mix up a couple of words and everybody would freak out? And Fox News every night would talk about Joe Biden mixed up a word. He got this guy's name wrong. He said this name. When he said that name, he fell off a bicycle. Is he going to die? The Fox White House correspondent would ask Joe Biden, are you going to die? Are you going to make it? Is that the, is that the picture of perfect health? Is that are we, are we just talking about grandpa needs a cookie here, or is there something bigger going on? America is too big a country. There are too many big issues. There's too much important stuff to solve. We don't have time for a phone it in president, ladies and gentlemen. We just don't have time. And it seems like Donald Trump doesn't have it either. Time does not appear to be on his side. Time does not appear to be on his side. My thanks to Liz Oyer. My thanks to Maria Cardona. As always, guys, thanks so much for watching. It really meant a lot to me. I have to say very quickly before I go, how many people watch the Rosie o' Donnell interview that we did last week? We, we had so many folks on substack and YouTube watch that. It was, it was very, very satisfying. And my thanks again to Rosie o'. Donnell. My thanks again to all of you for tuning in and supporting this show day in and day out. Don't forget to hit that subscribe button like the video if you're, if you're seeing it, you're enjoying it. It does help. It helps, you know, take care of everything that we do here on a regular basis. So thankful to all of you if I miss you over the Thanksgiving holiday break. But we're going to keep plugging away here. We're going to keep at it. We're not phoning it in here, folks. No phoning it in on the Jim Acosta show. But in the meantime, still reporting from Washington, I'm Jim Acosta. Have a good evening. I'll see you next time.