Michael Cohen and Olivia Troye discuss the Trump admin's snafu allowing a reporter into a chat on military planning plus Alex Isenstadt on his new book on '24 campaign

Summary

The Jim Acosta Show: March 24, 2025

Hosts and Guests:

• Jim Acosta – Host
• Michael Cohen – Political Commentator
• Olivia Troye – Former National Security Advisor
• Alex Eisenstadt – Axios Reporter and Author of Revenge: The Inside Story of Trump's Return to Power

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Overview

In this episode of The Jim Acosta Show, host Jim Acosta engages in a vigorous discussion with Michael Cohen and Olivia Troye about the Trump administration's mishandling of sensitive communications, notably the inadvertent inclusion of journalist Jeffrey Goldberg in a Signal chat discussing military operations. The conversation extends to the broader implications of this lapse in national security, Elon Musk's growing influence within the administration, and insights from Alex Eisenstadt’s new book on Trump's 2024 campaign.

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Democratic Momentum and Trump’s Oversight

Michael Cohen opens the discussion by highlighting the unifying efforts of Bernie Sanders and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (AOC) in galvanizing Democratic support, referencing their contrasting demographics—Sanders as an octogenarian and AOC as a millennial female—and their impact on Democratic rallies, notably a crowded event in Tempe, Arizona.

Michael Cohen [00:55]: "There are so many things for you and I to be talking about while we sit and we watch, as folks like it."

Jim Acosta counters by asserting that Trump remains oblivious to the growing Democratic momentum, particularly in key races like the Wisconsin Supreme Court, emphasizing Trump's lack of understanding of the political landscape.

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Justice Department vs. Trump Administration: Deportation Controversy

The conversation shifts to the clash between the Trump administration and the Justice Department over the deportation of Venezuelan migrants under the Enemy’s Act. A Reuters headline sparks concern:

Reuters Headline [02:27]: "Nazis were treated better than Venezuelans deported by Trump. Judge says at hearing."

Judge Patricia Millett criticized the administration for its due process, questioning government lawyers on arbitrary targets based on minimal evidence, such as tattoos, leading to swift deportations.

Michael Cohen [04:14]: "What if they put me on a plane and send me away?"

This highlights the apparent lack of due process and the administration's questionable profiling methods. Jim Acosta underscores the judiciary's frustration with the administration's disregard for legal protocols.

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Jeffrey Goldberg's Accidental Inclusion in Sensitive Chats

A significant portion of the episode delves into the alarming incident where Jeffrey Goldberg of The Atlantic was mistakenly added to a Signal group chat containing Vice President JD Vance, Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth, and others discussing bombing operations in Yemen.

Michael Cohen [08:10]: "Operational war plans were sent to a journalist. The danger this poses to national security is immense."

The misuse of Signal, an encrypted platform typically reserved for private communications, by high-level officials is condemned for its potential to expose sensitive military strategies to unintended recipients.

Michael Cohen [09:19]: "Using Signal for operational war plans is reckless and endangers national security."

Olivia Troye echoes these concerns, emphasizing the risk of sensitive information falling into foreign hands and the broader implications for national and international security.

Olivia Troye [36:52]: "This blows that out of the water. How are they coordinating international policy-sensitive discussions on an app like Signal?"

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Elon Musk’s Influence in the Trump Administration

The discussion progresses to Elon Musk’s substantial financial contributions and his resultant influence within the Trump administration. Michael Cohen criticizes Musk's role, suggesting his involvement exemplifies the administration's incompetence.

Michael Cohen [25:08]: "Elon Musk receives $8 million a day from the government based on federal contracts."

Jim Acosta expresses concern over Musk's sway, noting his significant donations and control over platforms like Twitter, which could be leveraged to manipulate public discourse and government actions.

Jim Acosta [28:28]: "Musk's accumulation of power through financial contributions undermines democratic principles."

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Social Security and Public Discourse

The episode transitions to a critique of Elon Musk’s recent statements labeling Social Security as a "Ponzi scheme," juxtaposed against the struggles of Social Security recipients.

Michael Cohen [20:37]: "Social Security recipients receive approximately $65 a day, which I’ve been paying into for 38 years."

Jim Acosta highlights the real-world implications of Musk's rhetoric, emphasizing the dependence of millions on Social Security for basic needs.

Jim Acosta [20:29]: "People like my dad rely on Social Security. How can you talk about it like it's a Ponzi scheme?"

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Wisconsin Supreme Court Race and Campaign Finance

Jim Acosta brings attention to the Wisconsin Supreme Court race, where Elon Musk's financial backing is viewed controversially, with suggestions that his involvement may bias the election in favor of Democrats.

Jim Acosta [23:10]: "Elon Musk may actually throw the race to the Democrats."

Michael Cohen expresses hope that Musk’s involvement will expose the administration's broader incompetence and underscores the need for public accountability.

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Insights from Alex Eisenstadt’s Revenge: The Inside Story of Trump's Return to Power

Alex Eisenstadt, author and Axios reporter, shares exclusive insights from his new book, detailing the symbiotic relationship between Trump and tech billionaires like Elon Musk during the 2024 campaign. He reveals how Musk's strategic financial contributions and personal rapport with Trump influenced key political decisions, including the selection of Vice President JD Vance.

Alex Eisenstadt [50:12]: "Elon Musk endorsed Trump after the Butler assassination attempt and advised him on Vice Presidential picks."

Eisenstadt underscores the pivotal role of tech moguls in shaping campaign strategies and sustaining Trump's political resurgence.

Alex Eisenstadt [56:05]: "Elon Musk’s wealth provides him extraordinary leverage and power within the administration."

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National Security Implications and Future Concerns

Olivia Troye and Michael Cohen stress the critical need for secure communication channels within the government, warning of the potential for future breaches and the endangerment of national security protocols.

Olivia Troye [38:26]: "These are serious foreign policy discussions. Their exposure could compromise missions and lives."

The episode concludes with a call to action, urging listeners to remain vigilant and engaged to safeguard democracy against administrative overreach and financial manipulation by influential elites.

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Conclusion

This episode of The Jim Acosta Show underscores significant vulnerabilities within the Trump administration, particularly concerning national security and the undue influence of billionaires like Elon Musk. The guests collectively call for greater accountability, secure communication practices, and active public participation to prevent the erosion of democratic institutions and ensure the integrity of governmental operations.

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Notable Quotes:

• Michael Cohen [04:14]: "What if they put me on a plane and send me away?"
• Olivia Troye [36:52]: "This blows that out of the water."
• Alex Eisenstadt [50:12]: "Elon Musk endorsed Trump after the Butler assassination attempt and advised him on Vice Presidential picks."
• Jim Acosta [20:29]: "People like my dad rely on Social Security. How can you talk about it like it's a Ponzi scheme?"

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Further Resources:

• Revenge: The Inside Story of Trump's Return to Power by Alex Eisenstadt
• Jeffrey Goldberg’s article on the accidental Signal chat inclusion [Reference: The Atlantic]

Transcript

[Jim Acosta]

All right. Welcome everybody, to the Jim Acosta show. It's 4:00 here on the east coast on this Monday afternoon, as you can see. Joining me today, it's, it's Michael Monday. One more time, Michael Cohen with me as well. Michael, great to see you. Hope you had a good weekend. How was the weekend?

[Michael Cohen]

You know, it was actually nice. The weather was beautiful here in New York. Wife and I went out, went out with my cousins who came in to visit. So had a wonderful week, wonderful weekend. Try to disconnect from the stupidity you have to do on in D.C. unfortunately, I can't. I will also tell you, Jim, that I have spoken to a buddy of mine who owns a Off Broadway theater here. It's only about 200 or so, maybe 180 for a town hall here in New York. Yeah, it's.

[Jim Acosta]

You're ready for this? You want to do this? I'm working on a venue down here.

[Michael Cohen]

I mean, I think it's important, Jim, you know, I mean, there are so many things for you and I to be talking about while we sit and we watch, as folks like it, in my substack today, I write about it because it was very much on my mind watching two people who have very little in common. And I'm referring to Bernie Sanders and Alexandria Ocasio Cortez.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah.

[Michael Cohen]

The Bernie Sanders space, you have an octogenarian male and then on the other side, you have a millennial female. Two completely different ideologies out there together. Rocking the Democratic.

[Jim Acosta]

Unbelievable. Yeah.

[Michael Cohen]

Rocking the democratic world with 35,000 plus people over in Tempe, Arizona.

[Jim Acosta]

I don't think Trump, I don't think Trump realizes what's going on. He's asleep at the wheel in more ways than one. And this is one of those areas where he's just asleep at the switch. He does not understand the momentum that is building on the Democratic side of the aisle right now with these town halls. You got this Wisconsin Supreme Court race coming up in early April. I know you want to talk about that as well. But Michael, I mean, the other thing we need to dive into because, you know, I know that you like to talk about what's happening in the legal space and you know, this fight between the administration and the Justice Department and the White House over the deportations of these Venice Venezuelan migrants. I mean, it got, it got escalated today. I'm just going to share this headline. Reuters had this headline earlier today, Nazis. This is Reuters. Nazis were treated better than Venezuelans deported by Trump. Judge says at hearing. I mean that you don't hear that said very often. This was an appeals court judge saying earlier today that Nazis were given more rights to contest their removal from the United States during World War II than Venezuelan migrants deported by the Trump administration. In a contentious hearing, the circuit Judge Patricia Milleton or Millet, questioned government lawyer Drew Ensign on whether Venezuelans targeted for removal under the Enemy's Act, Wartime Enemies act, used a little known law to contest the Trump administration's assertion that they were members of the Trend Iragua gang before they were put on planes and deported to El Salvador. Millet, the judge, said, this Nazis got better treatment under the Alien Enemies act than has happened here. And then the lawyer for the Justice Department said, we certainly dispute the Nazi analogy.

[Michael Cohen]

Michael, that's not all that he said. He also turned around and he said, that's all folks. I mean, as he sat there and sort of stuttered or trying to constantly talk about habeas. Now, I got to be honest with you, what a very poor performance on his, you know, on his part. But then again, it's because there is no way to justify what they did, which is to remove them and then to file the, the action against these individuals for removal. I thought her point, Millet's, Judge Millet's point that really struck a chord with me was the point about, well, what if I have a tattoo?

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah.

[Michael Cohen]

What if they put, what if just tomorrow they pick me up and they put me on a plane and they send it away? Because that's the problem. Not that she has a problem with what this administration wants to do, the removal. That's not what this case is about. And she tried to drill it into Ensign's head, which he refused to acknowledge. That would be the end of the hearing. Right. So instead what, what she did is she just kept trying to press it. What is the deterrence to stop government from doing it this way?

[Jim Acosta]

Right.

[Michael Cohen]

Which basically demonstrates a lack of process, a lack of due process for any of these people.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah.

[Michael Cohen]

And that includes even the ones that should be deported. Deport them. But after you identify who they are.

[Jim Acosta]

Right. And apparently the lawyers for some of these migrants who are deported were saying, you know, our clients were picked up because they had tattoos, but sometimes the tattoos were for their favorite soccer team. I mean, this was clearly profile favorite soccer team.

[Michael Cohen]

The guy who was deported was a soccer coach. For real, I think Madrid Real.

[Jim Acosta]

Unbelievable. Unbelievable. And Judge Boasberg, who's also been handling this case, he's, he's keeping his ruling in place barring the administration from using the Alien Enemies Act. The judge got feisty with the Department of Justice in this case as well. He said the order should remain in place so that the immigrants could have the opportunity to challenge the accusations that they belong to the gang. And, you know, late last week, you know, the judge rebuked the DOJ and accused the lawyers of ignoring his order to turn around those deportation flights. I mean, this is what's at the heart. I mean, the profiling, the picking people up off the streets, throwing them on a plane, that sort of thing, without even showing any evidence that they're part of a gang. That is one outrage. But the other thing, too, is they just defied this judge's order. Yeah, right.

[Michael Cohen]

And then they had a great one, which really made me laugh when Judge Millette turned around and said to the attorney, Deputy Attorney General Ensign, and said, well, why didn't you run then into district court and file a injunction?

[Jim Acosta]

Right.

[Michael Cohen]

Or an action? And he turns this. Well, we didn't really have time. She goes, you had more than a week.

[Jim Acosta]

Exactly.

[Michael Cohen]

To file. You file emergency action, you know, literally the same day, hours after, not. Not waiting a full week. Yeah, still not doing it.

[Jim Acosta]

I get the sense that some of the lawyers that. That are handling this case are maybe not the best and the brightest. I'm just getting that. That impression. And to that point, not the best of the brightest. We need to talk about the Atlantic story, Michael, because, I mean, this thing has just rocketed across everybody's social media accounts. It's, you know, all the New York Times, Washington Post. Everybody's writing off of this now. Jeffrey Goldberg from the Atlantic wrote this magazine article earlier today saying the world found out shortly before 2pm Eastern Time on March 15 that the United States had bombing, had started bombing Houthi targets across Yemen. Goldberg writes this. I, however, knew two hours before the first bombs exploded that the attack might be coming. The reason I knew is that Pete Hegseth, the Secretary of Defense, had texted me the war plan at 11:44am the plan includes precise information about weapons packages, targets, and timing. Michael, the article goes on to say basically, that Jeffrey Goldberg had been accidentally looped into a group chat on Signal, which is the encrypted messaging device. And Goldberg was given basically real time access to the conversation that was going on involving the vice president, J.D. vance, and Pete Hegseth. Are these. I can't believe these people are running the most powerful country in the world.

[Michael Cohen]

So here's. Here's the presumption, right? And I'm going to Sort of. Because this is the level of incompetence that we now have to contend with as citizens of the United States. Obviously, Jeff Goldberg should not have been texted what's known as ops operational plans. These are operational war plans. And I think in the mind of whoever, I think it was maybe Walls, who was setting out this, this email chain, he was thinking jd which kind of sounds similar to jg.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah.

[Michael Cohen]

And obviously they have jg, Jeff Goldberg on their signal. And so.

[Jim Acosta]

And I think they may have thought it was a different administration, that JG may have been some guy in the trade office or something that, like.

[Michael Cohen]

No, I. I think I. I truly think that it's like the difference between jd, jg. Oh, boy. And he just hit.

[Jim Acosta]

That's not good.

[Michael Cohen]

Because they were. They were rushing and. Because they're all incompetent. But there's multiple issues here that we have to dissect.

[Jim Acosta]

Absolutely.

[Michael Cohen]

Multiple. The first one, of course, is the fact that they actually texted operational war plans. A war plan somebody to a journalist. And I want people to understand the danger that that poses to our national security, to those forces that were there that were going to be attacking Yemen. Right. And the Houthis. Yeah, we now, I should say they had put out operational plans that could have been devastating to the military that has been engaged within which to conduct this raid. That's the first. The second part is the fact that they use this encrypted app called Signal.

[Jim Acosta]

Not supposed to do that.

[Michael Cohen]

Signal is if you're having a fucking affair or something or if you're. Or if, if you have something going. Right. That's not the government.

[Jim Acosta]

Not for discussing war plans. Yeah.

[Michael Cohen]

Do you remember how Trump attacked Hillary.

[Jim Acosta]

Clinton and other emails using.

[Michael Cohen]

What's that?

[Jim Acosta]

Her emails. The emails, yes.

[Michael Cohen]

That is, you do not use Signal or any non government platform within which to communicate. First of all, every one of those communications belongs to the American people.

[Jim Acosta]

That's right.

[Michael Cohen]

The National Archives, right now.

[Jim Acosta]

Correct.

[Michael Cohen]

Well, on Signal.

[Jim Acosta]

Not that they give a shit about that, but anyway, go ahead.

[Michael Cohen]

Yeah, on Signal, they disappear after a period of time. Right. You could set it for five minutes, it could be a day, it could be a week, but they disappear. Which means that those emails, those text messages, those communications will never become part of nara, which they are obligated to turn over. That's the reason why Clinton was wrong and Ivanka and Jared and others were all wrong. Well, you know what? As we always say, when it comes to Trump, what's good for you is not necessarily good for me.

[Jim Acosta]

Maybe Maybe Jeffrey Goldberg can turn them over to the National Archives. But, you know, here's a text thread I can read a little bit from the text thread that this was provided by some of the news organizations reporting on the Atlantic story. JD Van says at Pete Hegseth, if you think we should do it, let's go. I just hate bailing Europe out again. Let's just make sure our messaging is tight here. The vice president texted, and if there are things we can do up front to minimize the risk to Saudi oil facilities, we should do it. And then Pete Hegseth writes back, vp, I fully share your loathing of European freeloading. It's pathetic. But Mike is correct. We're the only ones on the planet who can do this. I mean, it sounds like, you know, this is like me and my buddies, you know, texting one another about March badness, you know. Yeah, yeah, buddy. You know, I got my money in Florida. How about you? I mean, what the. What the hell's going on here?

[Michael Cohen]

Yeah, I want to just then touch what's going on here. Pure. Pure insanity. But I also want to just give you the third part, and I think this part is hands down the most important of all of the three points that I want to raise. Bad enough that they texted out on signal operational war plans.

[Jim Acosta]

Correct.

[Michael Cohen]

Part that bothers me the most is the fact that President Trump made a statement that he knew nothing about this.

[Jim Acosta]

Interesting. Yeah.

[Michael Cohen]

There's two ways that we need to dissect this. The first is one, that he's lying. That he did and obviously thoroughly embarrassed at the level of incompetence and stupidity of those that he has put into.

[Jim Acosta]

Hypocrisy about Hillary and the hypocrisy that could be a reason why he's lying. But go ahead.

[Michael Cohen]

I like where you go, hypothetically, he's telling the truth. Imagine the fucking goal of these individuals. You're not going to tell the President that you actually texted on an app called Signal operational war plans.

[Jim Acosta]

Unbelievable.

[Michael Cohen]

They. Not the fact that. So either way, Trump has some, as Ricky Ricardo would say. Right. You got some explaining to do.

[Jim Acosta]

You got some big time explaining.

[Michael Cohen]

Okay. Big time explaining here. Because the fact that he could say he knew nothing about this.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah.

[Michael Cohen]

They have an obligation to tell the President of the United States that they fucked up. And this isn't just a small one. This is a major one that could have put our national security. The fact that he's claiming that they didn't. Somebody's head needs to roll.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah.

[Michael Cohen]

The question.

[Jim Acosta]

No, you're Right. No. And Michael, the other thing that's a little scary about this, and you and I are joking around a little bit here and we absolutely should because the incompetence. But I think we're kind of lucky here that Jeffrey Goldberg is a respectable, respected journalist in Washington. When he got access to this information, he didn't utilize it, you know, on the spot. I would imagine that most journalists in Washington would use the same kind of caution. But who's, who's to, who's to say if some news organization that wasn't exercising that kind of caution had put it out there and there were American fighter pilots or pilots who were dropping these bombs, you know, their lives could have been on the line or the operation could have been on the line, for example. I mean, that's the thing that scares me.

[Michael Cohen]

Imagine if it wasn't an American as Jeff Goldberg. What if they sent it to the BBC? What if they sent it to Al Jazeera or what if they sent it to one of the other foreign outlets that are there or one of these.

[Jim Acosta]

Wacko right wing outlets that just don't, they don't understand what journalism ethics are and they just think, oh, I want to get a scoop. Let's just put it out there. The bombing is happening in 10 minutes. I just got the text.

[Michael Cohen]

Well, fortunately was hours ahead. But the part that I believe Jeff Goldberg and why he didn't do anything with it, he actually didn't even think it was real. He thought he was like, he thought this was something generated, fishing, prank that, you know, and then ultimately he found that it was real because the bombs were dropping in Yemen. I mean, this is just nuts. And by the way, the fact that he still has all of these operational war plans, right, there's methods, there's processes. I am so concerned about the fact that Trump, all right, whether you like him or you don't, he's the president of the United States. It's good point that they thought they needed to do. They went ahead, they did it. But the people that are surrounding him, the enablers, the sick of these, these now individuals who are leaders who are.

[Jim Acosta]

Literally leading like the dod, they're not ready for primetime. They're not ready for primetime. And this is what was said about Pete Hegseth during his confirmation process. He was the one at the hearing talking about de FBI and talking about merit and saying there are certain people at the Pentagon who don't have the merit, don't have the credentials, don't have the street cred to be in certain positions. And yet he's the one who was put in this position as Secretary of Defense when he clearly was not qualified to be Secretary of Defense. And here's a glaring example right off the bat of just outright buffoonery. I mean, and listen to this. I mean, the Guardian added this on the story. Key figures in the Trump administration, including J.D. vance, Pete Hexseth, Marco Rubio, and the Director of National Intelligence, Tulsi Gabbard, used the commercial chat app Signal to convene and discuss plans, while also including a prominent journalist in the group, Tulsi Gabbard, the Director of National Intelligence. What are you doing on Signal, talking about anything?

[Michael Cohen]

That's the million dollar question right there. First and foremost, this is a major embarrassment, not just for the President, but for the United States of America.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah.

[Michael Cohen]

It opens up more and more opportunity for our adversaries within which to try to. To try to obtain information from this group of inadequates. Right. And it doesn't just stop there. It is one blunder after another. Look at like, for example, the Lutnick comments.

[Jim Acosta]

The thing about Social Security, the most.

[Michael Cohen]

The most obnoxious, the most detached.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah. He said if his mother in law. He said if his mother in law had not gotten her Social Security check one month, she wouldn't complain. But yet he's a billionaire. I mean, he can take care of his mother in law, presumably he would take care of his mother in law and she wouldn't have to worry about it getting her Social Security checks. I mean, I'm glad you brought this up because, I mean, I was going to put this under the headline. What the. Musk. The Washington Post reporting Elon Musk claimed the Social Security Administration is plagued by immense waste and promising audits to root out the extreme levels of fraud. Trump, of course, talked about this as well, but Washington Post reporting some of the biggest examples of allegedly wasteful spending held up by Musk and Doge so far have been overblown or inaccurate.

[Michael Cohen]

The.

[Jim Acosta]

I mean, the press is all over this stuff, Michael, and this is why people are showing up at these town hall rallies for Bernie Sanders and AOC and others. They're getting packed auditoriums. If you and I do, we'll get a packed auditorium, too, because this is just out of. The incompetence is out of control.

[Michael Cohen]

Yeah. You know, when I was saying that they're two unlikely people, that's because I'm referring to the fact that he's an octogenarian male, she's a millennial female female, and While, yes, they are both Democrats and they both stand for the same thing, which is equality, fairness, you know, nobody had a better line as far as I'm concerned than AOC when she responded back and she goes, wait, because I was a waitress. Right, yeah. So in other words, you know, she's trying to bring this crew of billionaires back down to reality that as you said, just because Lutnick's mother in Law, who's 94, missed a month in terms of her Social Security check. The wife, Howard's wife and I know how, we're 23, 24, I'm sure you know the mother in law. They're from my hometown. You know, his, his, his wife from my hometown. They're a very nice family. I'm sure Howard would take care, of.

[Jim Acosta]

Course, everybody would take care of their mother in law. That's what you do.

[Michael Cohen]

Yes, of course. But it is so detached from the reality of 90% of America where they live from check to check. So you're going to tell me that mom or dad or grandma or grandpa can't get their insulin because they need to pay for food or they're not going to have food because they need their insulin or they're not going to pay for food or their insulin because they need to pay for rent or for electricity or what have you. It's, you're not talking, by the way, shame on Elon Musk, a non elected official from South Africa who wants to come here and call Social Security the greatest Ponzi scheme of all time. Jim, I have been paying into Social Security.

[Jim Acosta]

I better get that money.

[Michael Cohen]

Literally since I'm in 38 years, I've been paying 38 plus years now.

[Jim Acosta]

I'm almost at that same level too. I know.

[Michael Cohen]

I'm saying to myself, wait a minute, Sapanza team, I'll tell you what, take me off Social Security, just give me my money back.

[Jim Acosta]

Right, Exactly. This is, this is where there's a misreading of, you know, and Trump said when he came in office he has this huge mandate and all this stuff and, and, and then, and then they come in and they say we're going to tackle waste, fraud and abuse. When you talk about eliminating Social Security, when you're making up stories about Social Security to pave the way for eliminating Social Security, that's not eliminating waste, fraud and abuse. That is eliminating a program that is vital to the, to the well being of millions and millions of senior citizens in this country. Not everybody has a giant 401K. Not everybody has a pension plan because they work for a big union or whatever. A lot of people are relying on Social Security to just get through their golden years. And to think that Elon Musk would, would be putting this out there, it's just, it's just un American.

[Michael Cohen]

Well, it's not un American. It's typical for a billionaire who profit over people. Here's the interesting statistic that I read this morning, actually, that the Social Security recipient receives approximately $65 a day. Now, mind you, it's not $65 that you didn't pay into. It's $65 is how the system works. Elon Musk, on the other hand, receives $8 million a day from the United States government based upon federal contracts.

[Jim Acosta]

He's had all of these contracts. That's right.

[Michael Cohen]

It's all, it's million a day.

[Jim Acosta]

Give me a break. It's. And let me tell you something. I'm glad we're talking about Elon Musk, because I'm talking about it. Later on in this hour, Alex Eisenstadt has a new book out on the Trump 2024 campaign. He's with Axios. He's going to be coming up in a little while from there. There it is right there.

[Michael Cohen]

I just finished reading it.

[Jim Acosta]

Nice.

[Michael Cohen]

I'm on my podcast, Mayor Culpa.

[Jim Acosta]

There you go. There you go. And always watch Michael's podcast as well. But Alex is coming up in a little bit. We're going to talk to him about that. Olivia Troy is going to come up in a little bit. I'm going to talk to her about this guardian thing. But Michael, you and I need to talk about what's happening in Wisconsin. It's, it's what the Musk, the Wisconsin edition. The election to fill a Wisconsin Supreme Court seat, according the Associated Press, has become a referendum not only in the new administration, but on Elon Musk. He has put money into this race. And a lot of people up in Wisconsin are saying, oh, hell no, we don't want this. And he may actually throw the race to the Democrats. What do you think about all this?

[Michael Cohen]

Listen, I hope he does because there's so much on, as far as the referendum is concerned that's coming out of Wisconsin. Let me say this as somebody and I want to share with our audience.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah.

[Michael Cohen]

Some more personal stuff. Obviously, they know I was involved in Trump's life from 2005 all the way through, say, 2018. Right. In my whole time of being, my whole tenure being involved with Trump, I have never seen a group of individuals. I don't care what they're worth, what your net worth is and what your competence level are two completely different things. I have never seen more people less competent who are surrounding him, who are becoming his.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah, what's going on with that? Why is that?

[Michael Cohen]

I don't know.

[Jim Acosta]

Is he just so off his game that he's basically, he got back into office, but he's just going to delegate everything?

[Michael Cohen]

Because he just not, he's not off his game. What's happened is in the first go around, he had certain individuals that were around him who were, they were core Republicans who had experience in D.C. just. And I'm no fan of his. I'm talking about Reince Priebus. But say whatever you want about Reince Priebus. He was a insider, a swamp monster Republican. And what he did is he tried to fill all of the, all of the jobs with swamp monster Republicans, but nevertheless, while they, I still didn't like them. They still had experience.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah.

[Michael Cohen]

The inexperience, whether it's Lutnick, whether it's Hegseth, whether it's Tulsi Gabbard, it makes no difference. They have, they don't.

[Alex Eisenstadt]

J.D.

[Jim Acosta]

Vance. Yeah.

[Michael Cohen]

And you know what, Jim? They're doing, they're embarrassing not just the president terribly. And I seriously, I want to pick up the phone and I want to call him and say, what are you doing?

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah, he doesn't want to take those kinds of calls. He doesn't want to take those kind of calls. He throws the press out. He throws the press out for asking hard questions. He goes after people who give him a hard time. He doesn't want that anymore. And that's what makes me worry about Elon Musk. Because, because you know, Elon Musk. Say what you want about Elon Musk. He is, he's a pretty competent guy, knows how to run a business. You know, you may not agree with what he has to say or his beliefs, but I don't think he's an incompetent person. I mean, I don't, you know, it.

[Michael Cohen]

Seems to me, you know, there's a difference though, Jim. He may be great at running a Tesla battery, you know, electric vehicle, or even having the right people at speed SpaceX, but he doesn't know shit about government.

[Jim Acosta]

No, he doesn't know anything about government.

[Michael Cohen]

And he doesn't care.

[Jim Acosta]

Oh, no, that's true.

[Michael Cohen]

Problem. He doesn't care about your privacy rights. He doesn't care about. He wants to show Trump that Social Security is bullshit. It's a Scam that there's people 280 years old that is still receiving Social Security. Let me ask you this question. Assuming that you are the person who's allegedly 280 and 80 years of age, somewhere along the line, let's just say the name is Jim Acosta. Right? Somebody else, maybe with the same name, Jim Acosta, is receiving those checks. Right? Okay, so what did you do? You named your kid Jim Acosta Jr. So you could keep going ad infinitum at some point in time. Where are these checks going? The whole thing is nonsense. He's wrong. And instead of Trump coming down like he used to do, if you made this type of mistake at the Trump Organization, your ass would have been fired in a split second. And you know how I know, Jim? How I know you asked would be fired? I would have been the one throwing you out the fucking door.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah. No. Absolutely no. And let me just be very, very clear. I completely agree with you 100% that Elon Musk has no idea what he's doing inside our government right now. He launched a successful car company. Not doing so well right now. He launched a successful rocket company that, you know, that, you know, does well some days, does well, doesn't do well on other days. But in terms of being involved in the government, the problem that I have is that he bought his way into this. He spent $290 million to get in the door, and he's. He's coughed up another 100 million to stay in the room. He was in the Cabinet meeting earlier today. What is he doing in the Cabinet meeting? Holding court with Donald Trump and the rest of the Cabinet members. It's absolutely outrageous. It's a betrayal of what this country should be about. The Founding Fathers, they did not want this to happen. The Citizens United case at the Supreme Court opened up the floodgates to this kind of thing. And now we're stuck with somebody like Elon Musk. Because I don't know if Donald Trump's ever going to throw him out the door as long as he's throwing out $100 billion checks.

[Michael Cohen]

So what he will. Let me say this. Trump needed him at the time. Trump doesn't need anyone any longer. He really doesn't. No one person is so vital to Trump that he can't inflict 50 times more. You know, there's an old Trump saying, if you punch him, he'll punch you back ten times harder.

[Jim Acosta]

Right?

[Michael Cohen]

Assuming he decides Elon Musk has to go. The second elon Musk steps 1 inch, 1 inch out of line. He'll shut down Twitter. He'll end up putting the Department of Justice all over him like they did to me.

[Jim Acosta]

Right?

[Michael Cohen]

He'll have Pam Bondi arrest him in a heartbeat, claiming fraud. He'll turn around, they'll claim all sorts of things, and they will strip him of all of his money, claiming he stole that money from the US I.

[Jim Acosta]

Hear what you're saying. The thing that concerns me right now is you have Howard Lutnick going on television saying, buy Tesla stock. You have Donald Trump, you know, putting his cars out on the South Lawn of the White House like it's Barry's used car lot, you know, and it's, and that's the thing I don't like, because if Elon Musk can buy his way into our government and do these kinds of things and do the, what was it, the salute that he did on Inauguration Day, I mean, give me a break. You know, this is not what we need in our government. And he's showing that if you pay the price, if you pay that kind of money, you can just sort of run roughshod over just about everything.

[Michael Cohen]

And, well, one thing that Trump also knows is that for Elon Musk, the investment of say, 300, 400 million into Trump's stuff was a very, very, it was a very secure payday because he has made over $250 billion literally since Trump has become president. A lot of that got lost with the Tesla stock and so on, but nevertheless, he made $250 billion since Trump became president. So that is a wonderful return on investment. Trump understands a lot more than what people think. And you know what? He's not going to allow them to embarrass him and continue. Like I said from my time at Trump. Org. Yeah, these folks, whether it's Lutnick, whether it's Elon Musk, even somebody has to go down for this fuck up when it comes to the, the Atlantic thing with the Atlantic.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah, I agree with you 100. The other thing, though, that is concerning to me when I, and I, you're, you can have your opinion, Michael. I'm not going to dispute what you're saying. You know him a lot better than I do. But when I was watching him at that cabinet meeting earlier today, and you know, Trump really can just sort of like, I've been calling him like the CNC toy where you pull the, the, the string and this is a duck. Quack, quack. This is a cow. Moo, moo. All Trump can really do is sort of Just talk in, like, these generalities, you know, and he's going around the table, he's talking to these various cabinet members, and he's saying, you know, we just want to make America great again. He's still saying things like that around the Cabinet meeting room. And it just strikes me as somebody. It makes sense to me that Elon Musk has kind of taken over because he just doesn't sound like he's all there anymore. And I could be wrong.

[Michael Cohen]

I'll fully admit that. It's just he. Look, you want to talk about Doge for a quick second? The whole point of Doge is supposed to get rid of fraud, waste and abuse, right? Government efficiency. Think about it. With all of the cuts that have been made, if you really want to save the United States taxpayer some money, how about tell Trump not to golf. He's already spent over $30 million.

[Jim Acosta]

Oh, this is not about waste, fraud and abuse. It's not about. It is an ideological game that they're playing right now. This is an ideological pursuit. And that is why Bernie Sanders, AOC and all of these folks are having these huge rallies and huge town halming. Michael, we got to do one. That's just the bottom line here, you.

[Michael Cohen]

Know, we got to do it. One of the important things about what AOC and Bernie Sanders are showing, we cannot. We don't have the right, Jim, you and I and so many others. We don't have the right to sit with our, you know, with our hands under our ass. We have to get up and join this fight if, in fact, that we remain silent. If everyone remains silent.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah.

[Michael Cohen]

Our democracy, when you wake up from this night.

[Jim Acosta]

That's right.

[Michael Cohen]

No, will not.

[Jim Acosta]

That's right.

[Michael Cohen]

Anything that you could possibly recognize. That's right. Anyone with a platform, everyone has to become involved. Like show. Like Michael Mondays. Like my, like my substack at the real Michael Cohen.

[Jim Acosta]

Love it.

[Michael Cohen]

Join the communities, be a part of it. Every single person, whether you're Republican, Democrat, Independent, you are obligated to be involved. Because at this point, apathy and being passive is only going to allow. Can't do it to continue.

[Jim Acosta]

Can't do it. Another great Michael Monday. Michael Cohen, ladies and gentlemen. Michael, great to see you, man.

[Michael Cohen]

Always great to see you, Jim.

[Jim Acosta]

Thanks a lot. Really appreciate it. All right. We always love Michael Monday because Michael always brings it. I, you know, you'll have to forgive me if I'm a little tongue tied or sleepy sounding today. I was with my dad all weekend. He's been in the hospital. And when we're talking about Social Security. It makes me think about the fact that people like my dad rely on this. People like my mom rely on this. A lot of folks out there, blue collar folks, rely on their Social Security. How can you talk about it like it's a Ponzi scheme? Anyway, very happy to have Michael Cohen on the show. I'm going to bring in Olivia Troy because I always enjoy talking to Olivia and she. Olivia will have some great perspective here on what happened with this Atlantic story. Just unbelievably, just unbelievably out of control and buffoonish that this would be going on. There's Olivia Troi, who is always in control and never buffoonish. But, Olivia, great to see you, as always. Thanks for joining me. And, you know, I was talking to Michael Cohen about this. Michael was fired up, wanted to talk about this Atlantic story. What are your thoughts? I mean, you worked on the national security side of things. You were Mike Pence's national security advisor. You were privy to a lot of the back and forth that would go on inside the National Security Council at the White House. And what's your reaction to hearing that Jeffrey Goldberg of the Atlantic was accidentally brought into a signal chat group about these airstrikes on these Houthis? It's just unreal.

[Olivia Troy]

Yeah, the amateur hour is pretty out of control at this point. Look, I was in shock. I had to read the article. I actually read it a couple times just to make sure that I was understanding what I was reading, because it was just so shocking to me that this had happened. And with all the methods of communication that we have as national security people, signal was number one that actually came to mind when I was coordinating policy, when I was coordinating the COVID Task Force, when I was coordinating United nations visits. I just never occurred to me. And to do war planning in a chat, this is unbelievable. I mean, I had a classified phone at home, so they're not even using that. So this is how they're operating. And also, if. If this is one thing we know about, Jim. Yeah, that's what I kept thinking about. So how many other signal chats are happening on all sorts of plans and sensitive discussions that are ongoing and who all is listening to them along the way? I mean, I know, you know it's encrypted. Yes. It's supposed to be secure. I don't believe that there isn't potentially foreign adversaries paying attention. And on top of that, I know I talk to the media a lot now, and I'm out here in this space.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah.

[Olivia Troy]

I would have gotten in so much trouble if I would have included a member of the media in such a sensitive discussion. I can't even tell you. Like, I think about when my name showed up in a New York Times article and I freaked out. I remember running into the Vice President's office freaking out, saying, I don't know how my name is in this piece. I don't know how they even know my name right now. Why is my name out there? And so I only mention that because I want to give credit to Jeffrey Goldberg for absolutely having the actual wherewithal of himself to not include that intelligence officer's name. That was one thing that stood out with me in the story. He actually says, I'm going to not name this person in my story because they're an active intelligence officer in it. Good for him. Because nobody else in the chat seemed to care. I mean.

[Jim Acosta]

No, that's true.

[Olivia Troy]

And unbelievable.

[Jim Acosta]

And I was mentioning this to Michael. I mean, they're lucky. They're damn lucky that it was Jeffrey Goldberg who got accidentally brought into this. I mean, who's to say what would have happened had one of these right wing hacks that they let into the White House all the time now to do their thing. If that person had been on that on the chain, if that person had leaked it or tried to report it or put it on Twitter and say, hey, look at this great scoop that I have.

[Olivia Troy]

Yeah, they could have been doing a play by play. It could have been actually doing a play by play on an actual tax operation that was about to happen. Can you imagine that? And the lives that actually could have been put at risk. I mean, there's so many layers to this. And also, it's just so incredibly disappointing, especially for someone like Mike Waltz, who's serving as a national security advisor. Who should know better.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah.

[Olivia Troy]

Who should know better than to be doing this.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah, he's always. I mean, that's the thing I don't get. And the other thing I don't get either, Olivia, is that. Well, and maybe I do get this is that Tulsi Gabbard. This is, according to the reporting out there, that Tulsi Gabbard, the Director of National Intelligence, was. Was in on this. The Director of National Intelligence, they're holding.

[Olivia Troy]

A cabinet meeting, basically, essentially holding a cabinet meeting on signal. I mean, that's how it came off to me. I was like, this is the Principals Committee. That's what we call them. Right. This is what's happening right now. And Usually those Principals Committee meetings. Yes. Sometimes they happen on paper in classified channels, but for the most part, they happen in the Situation Room in the West Wing of the White House.

[Jim Acosta]

And that's why those facilities exist. Yeah.

[Olivia Troy]

Yeah, exactly. And it's classified.

[Jim Acosta]

And, you know, I mean, the other thing about this, that. That is outrageous is that it was Pete. He apparently accidentally brought Jeffrey Goldberg into this, into this chat.

[Olivia Troy]

Is anyone shocked?

[Jim Acosta]

Exactly. I mean, you know, he was the one that was railing against people, you know, who. Who might have gotten a position here or there because of DEI at the Pentagon. And I was always kind of yelling at the TV that entire time, like, if we're worried about merit, what are you doing there as the Secretary of Defense nominee? I mean, I'm not saying that, you know, he served us, our country, and I respect all of that and so on, but Secretary of Defense? Come on, give me a break. It just. It just doesn't strike. This is never going to make sense to me.

[Olivia Troy]

Well, and the fact that everyone in that signal group is behaving like this is totally normal. And that's why I say this can't be the only one. Right. I don't believe that this is the only time that they've put together a group like this, because it was like, okay, time to launch an operation. Hey, everyone, let's put together this. And so I'm just. It's really concerning to me. But on the other hand, when I was reading it, I was getting anxiety because I was like, man, what does this mean for the exposure for Jeffrey Goldberg? Like, what does it mean for him, who's now being in the. Who's now in the middle of this information that he didn't even want to be in the middle of? And also, like, you know, are they going to take revenge on him for reporting it? Yeah, I just. There's so many layers to this.

[Jim Acosta]

Well. And the NSC confirmed it.

[Olivia Troy]

It's wrong.

[Jim Acosta]

Oh, ultimately, it's wrong. Yeah. The NSC confirmed that. It looks like this. This chat is legit. So we, you know, we should put that out there. But the text thread that was reported on in this story, which I find to be kind of amazing, is that at one point, J.D. vance says to Pete Hexseth, if you. If you think we should do it, let's go. I just hate bailing Europe out again. Let's make sure our messaging is tight here. You know, it just. Some of the things that he says just sounds kind of lightweightish. And I hate bailing out Europe again. And then Pete Hegseth says, I fully share your loathing of European freeloading. Olivia, you and I have had this conversation before. What? What European freeloading? I mean, apparently J.D. vance the other day was going off on Denmark because of Greenland. Denmark stood shoulder to shoulder with this country after 9 11. The European countries that are part of NATO have put up just as much money as the United States in Ukraine. These are things that MAGA world, that information doesn't penetrate MAGA world, but it is the truth. And it's sort of dripping with these talking points even in this chat.

[Olivia Troy]

And you have a cabinet level discussion happening now at such level. And now you have the entire world watching this chat now.

[Jim Acosta]

Right.

[Olivia Troy]

I mean, they're aware of it.

[Jim Acosta]

And that's a great point.

[Olivia Troy]

You have European allies sitting there scratching their heads probably right now going, good to know that this is how they talk about us behind closed doors or on the phone. Good to know that this is how they view the rest of us. So in case anybody in NATO or anyone in the alliance was wondering or needed confirmation about whether they need to be figuring out how they're going to navigate things globally with the United States and without the United States. Well, now they know. Now they heard it directly. Right. I mean, technically, through this reporting that we have.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah. Because, Olivia, you understand all too well that information sharing, intelligence sharing between the United States and our major allies is, is critical. I mean, and they're going to think, and this is another one of those instances. It was like the Tulsi Gabbard nomination to dni. They're going to think twice about this stuff. Yeah.

[Olivia Troy]

And look, I'm going to be honest with you, Jim. You know, obviously I come from conservative politics. I'm recovering Republican who really, really actually cares about national security, is very much by the book back in the day, totally concerned about classified spills. I mean, so the whole campaign about. But her emails, it had an effect on me. I know it's kind of everyone and all your followers. I actually was like, oh yeah, what is going on with that? Because why are people communicating outside of this?

[Jim Acosta]

I remember when that was an important story.

[Olivia Troy]

This blows that out of the water. I mean, so.

[Jim Acosta]

But his signals.

[Olivia Troy]

Yeah, yeah, but the signal group. But the signal behavior is repetitive here we've got, you know, classified documents in the toilet of Mar? A Lago in the bathroom. Now we've got a signal group chat. I mean, why the hell should we trust these people in building like a golden dome that they're claiming they want to build? Like, yeah, I Mean, what kind of, what is going on here in terms of the level of national security? I mean, this is, and it's serious, this is serious foreign policy that is being discussed here. That's why it's so bad if you're.

[Jim Acosta]

Going after the Houthi rebels, because you're, you're trying to make sure that shipping channels remain open to commerce. I mean, this was a very important mission that they were embarking on. And fortunately it worked out where they claim it worked out to in a successful way. But they could have jeopardized the mission. They could have jeopardized American lives potentially. I, I guess. I mean, that's, that's the scary thing here.

[Olivia Troy]

Yeah. And so what other operations are being discussed? And is this how they're coordinating international policy sensitive discussions? Is this how they're going to be going into other efforts? Is this how they're coordinating immigration policy movements to, you know, I don't know, shipping immigrants back to, or sending them off to El Salvador? Like, is that what's going on in all these Signal chats with Stephen Miller in there?

[Jim Acosta]

Good point. It's a very good point. Very good point. And that didn't happen when you were there. There was no Signal chat stuff going on that you were aware of?

[Olivia Troy]

No, I'm going to be honest, I taught some of the staff Signal, but not because we were doing international national security classified information. It was mostly actually because we were afraid of the Trump team derailing some sort of thing that was happening. So we were actually operating internal OPSEC so that we wouldn't be targeted by the people down the hallway when we were trying to get Mike pimps to navigate serious things. I mean, so that within itself is also messed up, but we don't need to get into that right now.

[Jim Acosta]

No, and I remember we had to use, I mean, we in the press had to use Signal to do our reporting back in those days. And in many cases, we had to use Signal to communicate with our sources in the administration. I mean, candidly say, because everybody was scared. And now the Vice President, the Secretary of Defense, other high level officials are using this encrypted app to discuss this level of stuff.

[Olivia Troy]

Yeah. And, you know, it's just wild. We should look this up and get the facts on it. But don't you remember when somebody was fired from the National Security Council? Because I do. When they were messaging, I think, on WhatsApp or Signal, and during the first Trump term. And I remember that one of my colleagues was removed from the role for it so it's just, it's bad practice. You shouldn't be. There are, you know, there's high side, there's classified systems, there's secure facilities where you have these conversations in.

[Jim Acosta]

And that's why we have these facilities. That's why we have these things. This is why we can't have nice things, I guess is.

[Olivia Troy]

Anymore.

[Jim Acosta]

Anymore. Anymore. Yes.

[Olivia Troy]

And the sad part is, I mean, I think, you know, I think the right wing machine is very effective at spinning these things and saying it's hyperbolic. And here they go. It's not about the left blowing this out of proportion. It's not about the media blowing this out of proportion. This is really, this is really serious stuff happening here. Right. That's why we're concerned about it. And if I were a person talking to a MAGA family or your neighbor, I would be saying the reason this matters is because when they're discussing these operations, if your son or daughter or relative, dad, mom, somebody is involved militarily or they're part of this, their lives could be put at rest. Their security could be compromised if that information lands in the wrong hands ahead of time. The number of things that could go wrong is exponential. And that's why it varies. Yeah. And it also could lead adversaries to say, oh, they're going to do this, we're going to retaliate or do something beforehand before they launch this. I mean, there's so many things that can go wrong here. But anyways, I know I get very passionate about this because I know you do. Really. Just, it's just frustrating to watch.

[Jim Acosta]

It's mind blowing and it doesn't need to be this way. That's the moral of the story here. Olivia, great to see you as always. You for coming on and talking about this. I knew you were the perfect person to go to. Thank you very much. Good to see you. Okay, see you, Olivia. Okay, take care. That was Olivia Troy, you know, and she, she had, you know, a view inside the administration the first time around when this was going on. I'm going to bring in Alex Eisenstock because I might lose Alex and I got to get to him quickly. He is a Politico reporter. Excuse me, I should say he's an Axios reporter now. He was with Politico, but now he's with Axios. And Alex has a new book out on the Trump campaign and how it was successful. I mean, we will just say that in the 2024 campaign. And one of the reasons why I thought it would be really Interesting to bring on Alex is because Standby. I'm working on this, folks, is because Alex has some insights into, into Elon Musk and what he brings to the table and what he did bring to the table during that campaign. Alex has a new book out called Revenge the Inside Story of Trump's Return to Power. I'm going to bring him into the discussion now. Let's see if he is still there with me. Let's see. I think this is Alex's first substack. So let's hopefully, let's make sure this works here. And I think I'm holding him up a little bit, too. But you know, Alex, Alex, who is with Axios, was with Politico, has a great book on the 2024 campaign. And there's Alex right there. Alex, great to see you. Thanks for doing this. I appreciate it. I know I'm coming to you a couple minutes, a few minutes late, later than I thought I would, this Jeff Goldberg Atlantic story came out, which was absolutely bonkers. But you've got some bonkers reporting in your book. And I just want to remind people of the name of the book. It is the Inside Story of Trump's Return to Power. And Alex, one of the things that you get into in this book, because we've been talking a lot about Elon Musk today, I talk about a lot on this substack program, is that Trump was very conscious of sort of stroking Elon Musk, keeping him in his good graces. And eventually, actually at a certain point, it was pretty late in the campaign, if I'm not mistaken, according to your book, they became pretty close, regular phone buddies, is that right?

[Alex Eisenstadt]

Yeah, they did. And it's interesting. The relationship between the two of them started right after the Butler assassination attempt. In fact, Musk endorsed Trump that night. And shortly after, Trump was making his decision about who he was going to pick as vp. And Musk, being the tech guy that he is, was pushing for JD Vance like a lot of other people in the tech world were. And Musk's advice to Trump was very simple. If you pick someone other than if you pick someone in the establishment, in other words, someone not JD Vance. If you pick someone the establishment, it's going to give the deep state establishment more incentive to try to kill you again.

[Jim Acosta]

Wow.

[Alex Eisenstadt]

And that's what Musk told Trump. And ever since then, that point, they've been very close with one another. And Elon got involved in this race very late. He spent several hundred millions dollars in this campaign, really, in September. And October. And ever since then, they've been very tight as allies.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah. I mean, as you write in the book, Trump at one point said in a conversation about the vice presidential deep stakes Elon really wants. JD you also wrote that Jeff Bezos was pushing for Doug Burgum. Pretty extraordinary how these tech billionaires were involved. And it sounds like Elon Musk, at the end of the day, kind of won the argument here.

[Alex Eisenstadt]

Yeah. And so one thing about Bezos that's interesting is, is that my reporting shows that Jeff Bezos got involved in pushing for Doug Burgum right before. Right before J.D. vance is ultimately picked. And Bezos called Trump shortly after the assassination attempt, praised him for how he handled the assassination attempt, and then plugged and then plugged Doug Burgum. And what this shows is that Bezos was getting involved in talking politics with Trump far earlier than anyone thought. And so Bezos has gotten a lot of heat right now internally at the Washington Post and from subscribers for making moves that people think are sort of aligned or maybe a little bit Trump friendly. But this shows that Bezos was getting involved with Trump, talking with Trump about politics months before the campaign, before the election even took place.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah. And David Sachs, who is this other tech bro guy, crypto guy from California. I mean, he's mentioned in your book. Alex. I don't know if people really understood the level of this that was going on behind closed doors, behind the scenes during the campaign, but it really was kind of a tech bro driven campaign. In a large part.

[Alex Eisenstadt]

It was. And one of the chapters I have in this book says that basically brat summer became bro fall in October. You had this onrush of things that were happening, which is one Trump was going on and appearing on a lot of bro podcasts, like Theo Vaughn, like Joe Rogan. And at the same time, you had a lot of tech bros who were getting involved in this campaign, Elon Musk, but also others like David Sacks you just mentioned. And so it became a kind of a bro centered campaign in September, October, really.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah. And I guess you mentioned these podcasts because I am fascinated by this, because I'm hearing from Democratic members that now they want to come on. They want to come on this program, they want to go on other podcast like programs because they feel as though they have a blind spot that they missed this during the 2024 campaign. But Trump was doing this left and right. And it was something that I think a lot of experienced political reporters, not including you, missed. Maybe I missed it that he was doing this and it was successful.

[Alex Eisenstadt]

Yeah. So this is a really interesting point, which is that if you look at the top 10 top 20 podcasts on Spotify, right now, they're almost entirely dominated by conservatives or sort of conservative adjacent people. Democrat really aren't anywhere there unless you're talking about Pod Save America or Gavin Newsom. But as we know with Newsom, he's gotten a lot of attention in recent weeks for platforming people like Steve Bannon and Charlie Kirk. Democrats have a lot of catching up to do on this front. And we know that, you know, the new media space, like podcasts or like what you're doing right here is where a lot of attention is being placed. And so Democrats, it's one of the things that they need to figure out how to, how to do is how to reach people where they are, which is increasingly on the new media space, like substack or the podcast space.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah. And I have some interesting guests coming up, tentatively booked for later on this week. I won't give them away just yet, but I think there are names that people will recognize. It'll be very interesting because folks are going independent, going to independent media sources to get the word out. And I know, Alex, you're running out of time because you told me you had, you have a kind of a hard outcoming up here. Any, anything else from the book that you want to mention? I mean, I'm fascinated by the Elon Musk thing. Are you surprised that he has the kind of influence in the administration that he has right now? Or what else stands out to you that we're seeing right now that you kind of saw coming in the book?

[Alex Eisenstadt]

I think the title of the book is Revenge, and Trump was promising revenge during the campaign. But here's the interesting thing. Trump would, as Joe Biden attacked Trump for saying that he would be a revenge focused president. Trump would joke about it privately and say, oh, revenge, wink, wink. Revenge was always a part of the campaign and revenge was always a game plan in the White House as it relates to Elon Musk. One thing I would say is that Elon Musk is, no, is not like a regular politician, typical politician or typical cabinet member. His wealth, his bottomless barrels of money give him an extraordinary amount of leverage and power. And so when you bring Elon Musk into the orbit, you got to handle him carefully.

[Jim Acosta]

Right.

[Alex Eisenstadt]

You can't push him out too aggressively because he could spend that money in politics in any way that he wanted to.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah. And that's why. And I know you have to go so Let me know when you got to go. But the thing that I wonder about Elon Musk is Michael Cohen. I were talking about this earlier, and he thinks, oh, no, no, you know, Elon Musk isn't going to last that long, that sort of thing. And eventually Trump get rid of him. But you have to think. Trump is thinking in the back of his mind, if I cut Elon Musk loose, this could come back to haunt me. So maybe that works to Elon Musk's benefit in terms of staying around and having staying power. I don't know. Yeah.

[Alex Eisenstadt]

And look, Elon Musk is now going to cut a. Saying he's going to cut a $100 million to a pro Trump super PAC.

[Michael Cohen]

That's.

[Alex Eisenstadt]

That gives him an enormous amount of power. If you're Trump, you're saying, this guy is putting all this money into my operation. What does that mean?

[Jim Acosta]

Right. Yeah. Wow. Well, the book is the inside story of Trump's return to power. I mistakenly said you were with Politico. You were with Politico for many years, and a terrific reporter there. You're a terrific reporter now at Axios. Everybody go out there and get the book. I saw somebody say, I'm going to get the book, but not on Amazon, which was a shot at Jeff Bezos. But as long as you get it, that's all we care about.

[Alex Eisenstadt]

Thanks, Jim. Congratulations on the show.

[Jim Acosta]

Thank you. All right, thanks a lot. Good to see you. All right, take care. Alex is one of those old political campaign trail buddies, reporters. They run into one another out on the campaign trail. And Alex is a good guy. And it sounds like his book has a lot of interesting stuff. People might think, oh, I don't want to go back and read about the campaign and so on. There are Elon Musk nuggets in this book that I think make it very interesting reading. And I was surprised to see that Jeff Bezos was involved, talking about Doug Burgum and that David Sacks was in there and all these podcasts. I mean, it does sort of lay out how Trump was able to do it. So it's very interesting reading. Thanks, everybody. This was a fast paced show. I did not anticipate having three guests today. I originally just had Michael and Alex booked, and then this Atlantic thing popped up and immediately thought of Olivia. And I got a lot of other wonderful folks who I bring on to talk about national security. So please don't think that I was thinking negatively about anybody else, but I thought of Olivia because she was involved in those kinds of discussions on the National Security Council inside the White House, working for Mike Pence. So I thought she would be interesting to talk about. And she mentioned something very interesting in that she said that they use signal 2 from time to time. And so this should not surprise us that they were using Signal inside this administration. What is surprising is to this level where you have the Secretary of Defense, remember the Secretary of Defense, Pete Hegseth, was at his hearing trashing people who had perhaps raised to the position that they were in because of dei. And he talked about how merit was paramount and how, you know, you have to have merit when it comes to hiring decisions over at the Pentagon. And yet Pete Hegseth became the Secretary of Defense. And people raised questions and said, is Pete Hegseth qualified to be the Secretary of Defense? My attitude was at the time was he was not qualified to be the Secretary of Defense. And it's just. You can just judge that empirically speaking, objectively speaking, you could say the age that he's at and the troubles that he's had in his background and the fact that he was on Fox before going to the Pentagon probably made him not the most qualified person to be Secretary of Defense. And what happens, he gets into the administration, he becomes the Secretary of Defense, and he's on a group chat on Signal, like a teenager or something, talking about bombing plans for the Houthis. I mean, again, the level of incompetence here is staggering. And it's obviously going to be something that's going to be talked about. Of course, the Republicans who control both houses of Congress are not going to have a hearing on this. Perish the thought, as I like to say sometimes. But there should be hearings on this. There absolutely should be hearings on this. And as Michael was talking about and as Olivia was talking about, if Donald Trump is going to get out there on the campaign trail, and I was with him back in 2016, he's going to get out on the campaign trail and go after Hillary Clinton and talk about her emails. You guys might remember those campaign events where Donald Trump would get out on the campaign trail. He'd talk about Hillary's emails, he'd talk about how she bleached the emails and how they blew up the emails and they did all these things to the emails. Sometimes I didn't understand what he was talking about when he would talk about some of these things, but he was talking about the use of a private email server back during the. During that campaign, getting on encrypted messaging apps like Signal, where there are who knows? God knows what the controls are when you have the Director of National Intelligence, Secretary of State, the Defense Secretary and so on, the National Security advisor, the Vice President, for Pete's sake, or for JD's sake, in that, in that instance, it boggles the mind. What in the hell? I've asked this before. What in the hell is going on inside the administration? And it kind of makes you think, maybe this is why Elon Musk has so much sway. Maybe this is why Elon Musk has so much power in the administration, because the other guys can't get their act straight. The other guys maybe shouldn't be there. They're not qualified to be in some of these positions. It's kind of scary when the richest guy in the world, the, the billionaire Elon Musk, buys his way into the government, buys his way into this kind of position of power, and he's surrounded by people who are on signal talking about war plans. Hello, what's happening? Donald Trump, what's happening inside your White House? Do the Republicans up on Capitol Hill have the courage, have the guts to hold hearings on this? That's the question I'll leave you with tonight. Ladies and gentlemen, still reporting from Washington, I'm Jim Acosta. Thanks, everybody, for joining me today. My thanks to Michael Cohen, Olivia Troy, and Alex Eisenstadt in his terrific new book. Thanks, everybody for tuning in. I'll see you next time. Take care.