Michael Cohen has some choice words for Chuck Schumer and former DOJ attorney Liz Oyer explains what bothered her most about Trump's speech at Justice Department.

Summary

Podcast Title: The Jim Acosta Show
Host: Jim Acosta
Episode Title: Michael Cohen has some choice words for Chuck Schumer and former DOJ attorney Liz Oyer explains what bothered her most about Trump's speech at Justice Department
Release Date: March 17, 2025

Summary:

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1. Introduction and Overview

In this episode of "The Jim Acosta Show," host Jim Acosta engages in a heated discussion with former Trump attorney Michael Cohen, followed by an in-depth interview with Liz Oyer, a former pardon attorney at the Department of Justice (DOJ). The conversation centers around President Donald Trump's attempts to invalidate pardons issued by his predecessor, critiques of Senate Democratic Leader Chuck Schumer, and alarming changes within the DOJ under the Trump administration.

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2. Trump's Attempt to Void Biden’s Pardons

The episode opens with Acosta addressing President Trump's recent actions to invalidate pardons granted by President Joe Biden. He highlights a tweet from Trump on Truth Social where the president claims, "the pardons that sleepy Joe Biden gave to the unselect committee of political thugs are void, vacant, and of no further force or effect" (00:20).

Michael Cohen responds skeptically, questioning the legality and precedent of such actions:
"Is he or is he taking the position that I, King Donald, have so decreed that whatever the previous administration has done, I now deem null and void?” (01:45)

Cohen emphasizes the constitutional limits of the pardon power, questioning whether a president can undo a pardon:
"There is no evidence, documentary or otherwise, other than the fact that I think it, therefore it is right.” (03:00)

Jim Acosta reinforces this by citing The New York Times, stating, "There is no power in the Constitution or case law to undo a pardon.” (04:13)

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3. Discussion on Presidential Pardon Powers

Michael Cohen elaborates on the broad scope of the presidential pardon power, explaining its historical use across administrations:
"It is the one unchecked power that is given to a president for any federal crimes to provide a pardon.” (02:18)

He further critiques Trump's reckless approach to using the pardon power without adhering to constitutional processes:
"It is so reckless in a comment, it's so reckless in a post... because he used an auto pen. I'm not so sure that the use of an auto pen negates that it's legitimate.” (03:16)

Acosta adds context by explaining the legitimacy of auto pen usage in signing official documents, tracing it back to the Obama administration:
"Auto pens have been used going back to the Obama administration... Presidents use them because they can't sign every document that goes across their desk.” (04:13)

Cohen compares Trump's behavior to fantastical actions, humorously stating, "It's one thing for me to say Jim Acosta is an alien. Right. And I don't mean one from a foreign country.” (03:00–03:11).

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4. Critique of Chuck Schumer and Democratic Leadership

Transitioning from Trump's actions, Acosta shifts focus to Senate Democratic Leader Chuck Schumer. He criticizes Schumer for compromising with Republicans on a Continuing Resolution (CR), which, according to Acosta, allows Trump and Elon Musk to continue undermining federal institutions:
"Chuck Schumer is in a world of hurt right now because he compromised with the Republicans... which has been lambasted by progressives as a giveaway to Elon Musk and Donald Trump.” (15:00)

Michael Cohen echoes this frustration vehemently:
"Fuck Chuck. That's the only thing that I could possibly say when I saw him do that.” (15:06)

Cohen further criticizes Schumer for relinquishing Democratic power without resistance, attributing it to the party's declining support:
"He gave away the only power that the Democrats had within which to stop this Republican barrage on our rights... That's exactly why Kamala Harris lost.” (15:37)

Acosta expresses bewilderment over Schumer's strategy, questioning why Democrats would allow such concessions without enforceable conditions:
"I just don't get that part of it. And then the other part is exactly what you said, Michael. People want the Democrats to fight...” (17:13)

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5. Trump's Expansion of Executive Power and DOJ Control

The conversation intensifies as both hosts condemn Trump's attempts to dominate the DOJ and expand executive power. Acosta notes Trump's overnight activities aimed at manipulating the justice system, which Cohen interprets as efforts to cement control:
"Trump is really attacking it from both directions. He is waging a, a multifaceted war on the rule of law.” (34:51)

Cohen warns of Trump's broader ambitions to centralize power:
"When Donald Trump says that he intends to destroy our tripartite system of government, he intends to strip the legislative branch and the judiciary of their co-equal powers... He's the person who is setting the agenda for the Department of Justice.” (11:02 & 09:34)

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6. Interview with Liz Oyer: Inside the Troubled DOJ

Following the debate with Cohen, Acosta interviews Liz Oyer, former DOJ pardon attorney, who provides a firsthand account of the internal turmoil within the department under Trump's leadership.

Departure from DOJ: Oyer explains her departure was forced by political pressures, particularly her assignment to a politically motivated task force:
"I was tasked with participating in a working group related to restoring gun rights...” (34:51)

She criticizes the politicization of DOJ roles, highlighting the lack of independence and the appointment of Trump loyalists:
"The president appears to be steamrolling his way... the internal brakes are off, so the external resistance is more important than ever.” (50:07)

Trump’s Speech at DOJ: Oyer discusses Trump's alarming declaration of himself as the chief law enforcement officer, undermining the Attorney General's authority:
"Trump came into the Department of Justice and announced that he is the chief law enforcement officer in this country...” (38:40)

She emphasizes the erosion of ethical standards within the DOJ:
"There is no longer a career official overseeing those things. There are now members of President Trump's personal defense team...” (43:57)

Pardon Power Critique: Oyer reflects on the abuses of the pardon power, agreeing with Acosta and Cohen that Trump's actions overextend presidential authority:
"There is no precedent for that, and there's no basis in law for that.” (43:57)

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7. Violence Against Journalistic and Democratic Institutions

Both Cohen and Oyer express deep concern over Trump's hostility towards journalistic entities and democratic institutions. Acosta cites Trump's actions against Voice of America and other media outlets:
"He's going after Voice of America, which is near and dear to my heart... they're now putting out music, is putting out muzak.” (25:59)

Cohen warns of the broader implications for First Amendment rights and democratic safeguards:
"When Donald Trump says that he intends to destroy our tripartite system of government...” (11:02)

Oyer reinforces the importance of the judiciary as a last defense against executive overreach:
"The courts seem more important than ever now because they are the last line of defense against this steamroll...” (50:07)

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8. Closing Remarks and Kennedy Center Commentary

In the concluding segment, Acosta shifts focus to President Trump's scheduled takeover of the Kennedy Center, symbolizing a broader hostile takeover of key institutions. He laments the cultural degradation and mocks the president's misplaced priorities:
"Donald Trump could not be smaller. He does not command the stage at the Kennedy Center... he just does not measure up to the job.” (30:50)

Acosta underscores the cultural and democratic stakes, vowing resilience against what he perceives as institutional assaults:
"We are in the midst of sheer madness here in the nation's capital, but we're going to get through it...” (29:47)

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Key Takeaways:

• Constitutional Limits on Pardon Power: Trump's attempt to invalidate Biden’s pardons lacks constitutional and legal backing, as confirmed by both hosts and interviewed experts.

• Criticism of Democratic Leadership: Chuck Schumer is heavily criticized for compromising with Republicans, leading to waning Democratic support and weakening opposition to Trump's agenda.

• DOJ's Compromise Under Trump: Liz Oyer reveals how Trump's administration has infiltrated the DOJ with loyalists, undermining its independence and threatening the rule of law.

• Threat to Democratic Institutions: The episode underscores fears that Trump is systematically dismantling checks and balances, targeting media entities, and eroding democratic safeguards.

• Cultural Symbolism: The Kennedy Center takeover symbolizes the broader cultural and institutional battles unfolding in the nation's capital.

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Notable Quotes:

• Michael Cohen (01:45): "Is he or is he taking the position that I, King Donald, have so decreed that whatever the previous administration has done, I now deem null and void?"

• Jim Acosta (04:13): "There is no power in the Constitution or case law to undo a pardon."

• Liz Oyer (34:51): "Trump is really attacking it from both directions. He is waging a, a multifaceted war on the rule of law."

• Michael Cohen (15:06): "Fuck Chuck. That's the only thing that I could possibly say when I saw him do that."

• Liz Oyer (43:57): "He is just a bully whose actions have largely gone unchecked."

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Conclusion

This episode of "The Jim Acosta Show" presents a critical examination of President Trump's actions undermining democratic institutions and the DOJ, paired with strong critiques of Democratic leadership. Through candid discussions with Michael Cohen and Liz Oyer, the show highlights significant concerns about the erosion of checks and balances, the abuse of executive power, and the vulnerabilities within the American justice system.

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Note: This summary encapsulates the key discussions and viewpoints expressed during the episode, providing listeners with a comprehensive understanding of the critical issues addressed without the need to reference the original transcript.

Transcript

[Jim Acosta]

Welcome, everybody, to the Jim Acosta show. It is Monday, March 17, St. Patrick's Day. If you're not keeping track. Hoping you're wearing your green out there, Michael. I don't see the green. I've got my green on.

[Michael Cohen]

I'm wearing green underwear, but okay, very good. I'm not going to do. I'm not going to do what so many people are going to ask. Let's see, let's see.

[Jim Acosta]

No, no, it's not that kind of show. We haven't started the only fans account yet, Michael, but my mom checked in with me to make sure I was wearing my green. So here you go. You know, I could go for a green beer depending how this show goes. Certainly based on what's happening in the news, and perhaps folks out there are turning a pale shade of green based on what's taking place in the news. Feeling a bit queasy about Trump's latest attempts to trample all over the Constitution. Michael, as you see, is on the program part of Michael Monday, where we go over all of the day's news. Later on, I'm going to speak with Liz Oyer. She was a pardon attorney at the Department of Justice who was fired by the Trump administration. Liz has some thoughts on what we've all been witnessing over the past couple of months. But, Michael, I wanted to start first with Trump wanting to undo these previous presidential pardons from Joe Biden. And it's based on his latest conspiracy theory, the Biden auto pen. The New York Times reporting that Trump wrote on social media last night that he no longer considered valid the pardons his predecessor granted to members of the bipartisan House committee that investigated the January 6 attacks on the Capitol. I mean, Michael, you and I have seen these kinds of tweets before. I'm going to read what he said on Truth Social. He goes, the pardons that sleepy Joe Biden gave to the unselect committee of political thugs are void, vacant, and of no further force or effect. He's just making this stuff up.

[Michael Cohen]

Well, is he or is he taking the position that I, King Donald, have so decreed that whatever the previous administration has done, I now deem null and voight. Now, one of the things that we have to acknowledge is that every president has the power of the pardon. It is the one unchecked power that is given to a president for any federal crimes to provide a pardon, you.

[Jim Acosta]

Know, but does it give you the power to undo pardon?

[Michael Cohen]

Me?

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Michael Cohen]

First and foremost, I have a few questions to ask.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah.

[Michael Cohen]

As a lawyer, as A former litigator and so on. My questions I would ask is, what documentation, what evidence do you have that demonstrates that Joe Biden did not accept or acknowledge these pardons, that Joe Biden did not say? I, as President of the United States, do hereby declare this individual pardoned. Yeah, I'm just curious. What is it? It's one thing for me to say Jim Acosta is an alien. Right. And I don't mean one from a foreign country.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah.

[Michael Cohen]

I'm talking about, you know, from outer space.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah.

[Michael Cohen]

From Krypton. Because you have that Superman vibe going today.

[Jim Acosta]

I appreciate that. If I take the glasses off, it's.

[Michael Cohen]

Oh, my God, it's Kal El. Right.

[Jim Acosta]

There we go. Let's go.

[Michael Cohen]

Oh, Clark and Kalil. I mean, look, if only I can.

[Jim Acosta]

Fly really fast and spin the world backwards to make things go back in time. I would use that power, by the way.

[Michael Cohen]

I would. Thank you immensel. You know, let me be clear. There is no evidence, documentary or otherwise, other than the fact that I think it, therefore it is right. Is it any different when he said that he could. That he could declassify documents based upon thinking it? It's more than just your thoughts. And I'm. I'm very. I'm saddened to be honest, because it's so reckless in a comment, it's so reckless in a post. It's so reckless for even him to make a statement that he is now going to undo all of these acts by Joe Biden because he used an auto pen. I'm not so sure that the use of an auto pen negates that it's legitimate.

[Jim Acosta]

Well, and I was just gonna say this according to the New York Times, and I know this because I've looked at this before. There is no power in the Constitution or case law to undo do a pardon. And there's no exception to pardons signed by auto pen. Auto pens have been used going back to the Obama administration, I believe, 2011. And, you know, obviously it's something that is used by presidents because they can't sign every document that Jim. It goes across their desk.

[Michael Cohen]

It's used by everyone. In 1987, I worked for Congressman Joe Moakley of Massachusetts. Yep. All right. And we used an auto pen in order to sign many letters that were going out to constituents that were curious about some cr. Some requisition bill or whatever. Hey, I have a question. We would, of course, respond appropriately after looking up the bill, and then we would put it into the machine. It would auto pen sign it and we would send it. Right, that. Just what does that mean? That they're not responsive? That they're legal? They're not.

[Jim Acosta]

It's insane all the time. Well, and it raises lots of, I mean, different questions. One is, I mean, he did try to use a Sharpie that one time to change the path of that hurricane. He signs Bibles with Sharpies. I mean, you know, we can get into his pen use if he wanted to do that. But the other thing that is disturbing about this, Michael, is it is again, an indication he wants to go after his political enemies. He's trying to figure out ways to do this. And the fact that he was up at 12:35 in the morning, you remember these days, Michael, when you worked for him, when he's up late at night or in the middle of the night putting out these screeds, nothing good comes from that.

[Michael Cohen]

Well, let me say that I'm somewhat thankful because I was fast asleep at 12:35 last night. I generally go to sleep around midnight and get up at 4:30. Had he, had I still been in that inner circle, I'm 100% certain he would have called me to read it to me. In some respects, I wish to God that I was still in the inner circle because I would say to him, boss, don't do it. Don't do it.

[Jim Acosta]

It's.

[Michael Cohen]

It's absolutely improper. It's unconstitutional. It's, it's insane. As a post, it just lacks seriousness. It just lacks. It lacks an understanding of either constitutional law or process.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah, well, I wrote a substack about this. I mean, there are obviously lots of disturbing questions about the things that he does, but it also just kind of boils down to whining. He's just whining about Biden pardoning these people before he left office, just like he was whining at the Department of Justice.

[Michael Cohen]

Well, you call last Friday, you call it whining? Yeah, he's just spelling winning differently.

[Jim Acosta]

Well, that's true. It's true, but it's just a non stop, like listening to a toddler. But you know, Michael, you wrote about his speech at the Department of Justice, which was also both annoying and disturbing. He talks about people like Norm Eisen, he talks about people like Alvin Bragg and Jack Smith, and he still talks about firing James Comey, which happened, what was it, seven years ago? Eight years ago. My God, all of these people are living rent free in his head.

[Michael Cohen]

Yeah, well, I did. I put out my own substack first thing this morning because I found it Extremely troubling there. I have from the rooftop on your show, your previous show. I have done it on this show. I have been doing it now for almost four and a half, five years, give or take, where I have been beseeching people to please listen, listen to what I'm trying to say. Not because I have some sort of. I have some knowledge which I've gotten. I lived it. And I am only speaking from experience.

[Jim Acosta]

Right.

[Michael Cohen]

When Bill Barr unconstitutionally had me removed from my federal location monitoring agreement program and re incarcerated, put back into solitary confinement, making it a total of 51 days of abuse and torture and torture, they put terrible. They handcuffed and shackled me, they put me into a freezer, they then sent me up. And I mean, it's beyond. I told everybody the reason that I fight, the easiest thing for me to do would be to do nothing, disappear, go do something, move out of the country. Go do something.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah.

[Michael Cohen]

But my fear was that what they did to me, they will do to you. And I don't want to see any other American.

[Jim Acosta]

That's what he wants to do, but that's what he wants to do. He wants to give Liz Cheney, he wants to give Adam Kinzinger, he wants to give Alvin Bragg and Jim Comey, he wants to give them the Michael Cohen treatment and worse, full stop about.

[Michael Cohen]

Liz Cheney before a firing.

[Jim Acosta]

Well, that's true.

[Michael Cohen]

I mean, come on, look, you have to understand, I know Trump again since 2005. It's 20 years now. I was in the inner sanctum. I was part of his life for 15, just about 15 years. This is not the Trump that I knew. This is a completely unhinged, a completely radicalized Donald J. Trump.

[Jim Acosta]

He's an extremist. He is a full blown extremist.

[Michael Cohen]

And Jim, I believe that the extremist position is a result of Project 2025 and these enablers that are now surrounding him. And I don't know why he's doing it.

[Jim Acosta]

And perfect example is Stephen Miller, who you know well from back in the day. And I mean, this is a manifestation of keeping Stephen Miller around for so long. Over the weekend, the Trump administration transferred more than 200 immigrants to El Salvador. These are the Venezuelan migrants that have been in the news lately, even in the face of a judge saying, no, you cannot do this. The judge said, you cannot use the, what is it, the Alien Enemies act of the 18th century to deport anyone in custody. And the judges said you have to knock it off. And they did it anyway. So, Michael, it seems to Me, he's trying to put his administration on a collision course with the courts, defy the courts, and then see what happens after that.

[Michael Cohen]

Jim, let me put it to you this way.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah.

[Michael Cohen]

I've also warned all of the viewers. I've warned America. When Donald Trump says that he intends to destroy our tripartite system of government, he intends to strip the legislative branch and the judiciary of their co. Equal powers conferred to them Right by the Constitution and confer all power to the executive branch, namely himself. This is what he's doing. Now, remember one thing, too. Trump is not what people want to constantly say. We have to sort of stop with the. Well, let's just call it the Republican name calling. Donald Trump is not stupid, not by any stretch of the imagination.

[Jim Acosta]

Correct.

[Michael Cohen]

They already came up with a scenario on how they're going to sort of kick the judiciary in the teeth, whereas not knocking them out, but just hurting them. He said that the plane was already in the air and that the judge had made the ruling orally and not in writing. Well, in order to be effective, it does need to be in writing. It should have been in writing. The judge took his sweet ass time and Trump took advantage of it. How many more times are we going to see things like this happen? Delay, delay, delay.

[Jim Acosta]

Well, that's true. And they play the justice system like a violin, like a fiddle. We saw that with his criminal cases and they're going to do it again with this stuff. But it just seems to me that, yes, they took advantage of a loophole and so on, but I mean, look what Caroline Levitt said at the White House briefing today. She was mocking all of this and defended a video that was posted by the White House on social media showing these immigrants in handcuffs to the song Closing Time by Semisonic. I mean, you know, what the hell's going on over there? They're enjoying this. Stephen Miller is enjoying this. They're all enjoying this.

[Michael Cohen]

Yeah. Everything with Trump, and everybody should know this already. You don't need Michael Cohen or Jim Acosta to turn around to tell you. Though I do have to say I thoroughly enjoy your substack. I hope you enjoy mine as well. Likewise, spend a lot of time on this. This is all performative art.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah.

[Michael Cohen]

Here's what Trump has learned. We are living in a Kardashian country. We are living in a world right now, especially this country, where reality television far exceeds numbers of that of even, like, 60 minutes or serious news shows. People like reality television, and there is nobody better at bringing you reality, stupidity, reality nonsense, Reality bullshit. Real than this administration.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah, it's true. I mean, they. They. You know, they're the. They're the kings of bullshit. I mean, there's just no question. I mean, when he calls himself the king, he is the king. He's the king of bullshit. And he. He proves that on a daily basis. Michael, you and I were texting about this over the weekend. We wanted to get into this. You know, I'm. I'm calling this good luck, Chuck, because, you know, Chuck Schumer appears to be in a big world of hurt right now. Let's talk about the Democrats a little bit. We've been talking about Donald Trump for the first 15 minutes. Apparently, Chuck Schumer, the Senate Democratic leader, is postponing several planned events, according to the AP this week to promote his new book, antisemitism in America, A Warning, which I'm sure is a very important book. But Chuck Schumer is in a world of hurt right now because he compromised with the Republicans, got that CR through the Senate and. Which has been, you know, you know, lambasted by progressives as a giveaway to Elon Musk and Donald Trump to continue doing what they've been doing, which is ripping the federal government to shreds. And a lot of Democrats are telling me privately, you know, and some are starting to say it publicly, they want Chuck Schumer to go, what are your thoughts?

[Michael Cohen]

Fuck Chuck. That's the only thing that I could possibly say when I saw him do that. Jim.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah, right.

[Michael Cohen]

I'm glad that I'm not on, you know, either cable news or, you know, one of the mainstream media.

[Jim Acosta]

We can say this here on. On subject.

[Michael Cohen]

And I say that. And I say that as somebody who has historically been okay with Schumer. All right, imagine, maybe replace shut might.

[Jim Acosta]

Be a nicer way to put it. But I.

[Michael Cohen]

Well, okay, okay.

[Jim Acosta]

You're a New Yorker. I'm.

[Michael Cohen]

Will.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah, go ahead.

[Michael Cohen]

I'm willing to change that. I shouldn't have done it. My mom will probably yell at me at this point. Maybe.

[Jim Acosta]

Chuck, Chuck, I. I don't know. Something like that.

[Michael Cohen]

Something like that. But here's the thing. He gave away the one power without even a fight. I did another substack, I think, on Saturday on this. He gave up the only power that the Democrats had within which to stop this Republican barrage on our rights and just abusing the system. He gave it up without even a fight. And that's exactly why Kamala Harris lost. It's exactly, exactly why Biden was getting crushed. It's why the Democrats right now are losing numbers.

[Jim Acosta]

Yes.

[Michael Cohen]

Of people. It's 8% of the black community walked away from the Democratic Party. It's why now what, another 18% of the Hispanic community. They want somebody that's going to get up and fight for them. So a little show, a little life in you show that you really are out there protecting us. Even though they know Trump is doing. Even though they know that what he's saying is harmful even to their own self interest, they don't care. At least he's there. At least he's alive. At least he's fighting. Everybody wants a fighter.

[Jim Acosta]

That's right.

[Michael Cohen]

And we have walked that down like some dead alley, just an alley. And we're just sitting there saying, well, how do we get out? Well, the answer is turn around, you putts. Turn around and walk back the direction that you. He made a drastic mistake. And shame on the other nine Democrats that went along with him.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah. And I mean, I will have to say I don't understand the strategy at all. I mean, we can, you know, pull this apart and do it piece by piece. One piece is. I don't understand the strategy at all. You know, why would you give Donald Trump and Elon Musk a blank check? Apparently, a CR does not have as many strings attached to it as a budget that is passed by the Congress and signed by the President. So the CR allows Donald Trump and Elon Musk to continue doing what they've been doing. And if you're Chuck Schumer and the Dems, why not say, listen, we'll keep the government up and running, but you got to come to the bargaining table and we're going to attach some strings to what you've been doing. And no more of this nonsense of just ending agencies and departments of the federal government until we have a full budgetary process that plays itself out. I just don't get that part of it. And then the other part of it is exactly what you said, Michael. People want the Democrats to fight. I've been calling it the great American pushback on my show. They just, they're tired of this shit. They're tired of just rolling over and taking it.

[Michael Cohen]

Yeah, and they gave him six months. Do you realize we're only in the game right now for 60 days?

[Jim Acosta]

Where literally not even that.

[Michael Cohen]

Yeah, where are we going to be in six months? You're talking about violating people's First Amendment rights. You're talking about Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, where Grandma and Grandpa won't have money for either food and, or their drugs there, you know.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah, but Democrats are supposed to protect Medicare, they're supposed to protect Social Security. That's what you are supposed to do if you are a Democrat.

[Michael Cohen]

And what happened to all the people who voted for Trump? I did another subject, Buyer's remorse to all of those people who voted for Trump. The auto workers unions or the, you know, the various different unions or the black community, the Hispanic, the Venezuelan community in Florida. Now what's happening? All of a sudden the guy's sitting there and he's saying, wait, wait, wait, wait. You're deporting me, right? My wife is American, my children, but you're deporting me. Yes, we are, but I voted for Trump. And you know what? You know what the Republicans say to him? Tough shit, Charlie. Have a nice sandwich on the way out.

[Jim Acosta]

That's it. No, what they're doing is they're putting out music videos with closing time on it. I mean, they're mocking, I mean, the Venezuelan community was very much a part of the Trump coalition in a lot of different places. And they're openly mocking you. They're mocking you. You voted for them and they're mocking you. How does that feel, Jim?

[Michael Cohen]

Did you see Scott Besant who turned around and made one of the most annoying comments that you, you, the 5,000 plus people that are with us right now that you want to pay more for your goods because Scott Besen says so now a lot of people don't know who he is and so on. Let me just tell you two things about him. First and foremost, his net worth is at somewhere about $510 million.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah, okay.

[Michael Cohen]

He does not understand, as any of.

[Jim Acosta]

These, inflation does not affect him that are with Trump.

[Michael Cohen]

He doesn't understand what you want. He's in a whole nother world with his house that's now on the market. It's known as the Pink palace downtown. Downtown, 22 and a half million dollars. So I'm sure there's probably a handful of people here that maybe have some pretty expensive properties. Maybe your home is worth 22 and a half million, then you should get up here and you should turn around and explain to the rest of the country why it is you want to pay more for your goods that you don't want a 200, $300 large flat screen television. You want it made in America at the whopping Cost of $2,000.

[Jim Acosta]

Right. And I love that. And I love how he's like, oh, we don't need flat screen tv. Somebody's chiming in with that comment right now. Donald Trump does nothing but watch himself on television. He does nothing but watch himself on. Are you kidding me with that line of bullshit? And the other thing that Michael, we have to get into the Democratic part, people in the Democratic Party, people who are outside the Democratic Party, who might be tempted to go with the Democrat, they just want fresh blood. They want fresh faces. They want some fresh legs in there. And I'm sorry, Chuck Schumer is just, he's just not that. And it just seems to me the Democratic Party is missing a huge opportunity right now.

[Michael Cohen]

Let me say the problem with people like Chuck Schumer and so many others, including, you know, I, if my wife will give me the thumbs up, I will. I will. I am so into it. I want to run. Let's do it against Jerry Nadler in the primary. I absolutely want to. If my wife will give me the thumbs up. We've had some major arguments over it. She doesn't want me anywhere near politics for obvious reasons. Right. Look over my shoulder, right? I want. Why? And let me tell you why.

[Jim Acosta]

Why not?

[Michael Cohen]

I want to do it because this Democratic Party needs somebody who's willing to get up and throw a chair. I'm willing to get up and to throw the guy over, over the mic, right? And not sit down. And I'm not going to just stand up there waving a cane. Chuck Schumer is old. He's been in too long. He's too complacent. He's too. He's just too complacent with the job that he's doing. It's more about him sustaining what he has than doing things that, yeah, it'll shake shit up in D.C. but what do you think the Republican Party is doing? People say, look, let's be fair about one thing about Donald Trump here. Donald Trump takes the kernel of sand, right? He takes that one, that one piece of sand, and with that saying, he makes it the denominator into the whole beach. Yes, there is a weaponization of the Justice Department.

[Jim Acosta]

All right.

[Michael Cohen]

Yes. The media, as far as I'm concerned, right? They suck when they get their hands onto a story. They run with it regardless of the truth. I once again, have been victim to it about a thousand times. Let's all remember the entire story of me in Prague. I've never been to the Czech Republic. I know.

[Jim Acosta]

I remember that.

[Michael Cohen]

Yeah. Allegations. Do you know, not one person in the media retracted their story. Not one person in the media apologized for two and a half months of every single day Assaults on me. My character. Trump is not wrong. But, yeah, I'm not willing to lose the First Amendment over Trump's belief that that one piece of sand is the beach. And that, my friends, is the problem. And that's why you need somebody like me. I just keep standing up and screaming from the rooftop. People say, stop yelling. You're too passionate. You're gonna have a heart attack. Don't worry about me and my heart. I have to do it to get through to people. And I said, not just on this show here, but with you in past and so on. My biggest fear is that what Donald Trump and Bill Barr and that weaponized Department of Justice did to me, my biggest fear is that they will do it to you. And you know what? The chickens coming home to roost.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah. Well, I think it sounds like to me, if we can get Mrs. Cohen on board, it sounds like you're there. It sounds like you got the fire in your belly. I might have to. I'll put in a call, I'll write a letter. You know, whatever. Whatever it takes. But, I mean, Michael, I mean, it seems to me you want to do it, and that's what I'm talking about. I mean, you got to have fresh faces in this party, or else it's just not gonna. It's just not gonna make it. And it's about something important, Michael. And I think you and I are both on board with this at the same time, and that is. There's. There's too much at stake. The American way of life, the. The way of life that you and I, we're about the same age, the way. Way we grew up in this country. It's all at risk right now. Maybe a little bit. Maybe a little bit. It's all. But it's all at risk right now. And you've got.

[Michael Cohen]

You know what's at risk. You know what's at risk, my friend? You're at risk. Legitimate journalists that say things that Donald Trump doesn't like, that all of a sudden, whether it's illegal protest or his now decision, he wants to change libel defamation laws in this country, within which to go after individuals or whole companies simply because they are promoting an ideology or they don't agree with his policy. And the contrarian view.

[Jim Acosta]

Well, he goes after the Associated Press. He goes after the White House press corps. Now they're going after Voice of America, which is near and dear to my heart. The New York Times wrote about this. For more than 80 years, Voice of America transmitted the news into countries many of Them authoritarian, where reliable sources of information about the outside world were often hard to come by. He signed this executive order. They've been dismantling Voice of America over the last couple of days, laying off all these journalists and so on. Listen to this. This is the kicker. With most of Voice of America's workforce locked out, at least some of its radio frequencies in Asia, the Middle east and elsewhere went dark or began airing nothing but music, according to employees over the weekend. That is what is being sent out by the United States of America. We are supposed to be the beacon of freedom, of democracy in this world. And the Voice of Americ, because of the whims of the president, is now putting out music, is putting out muzak.

[Michael Cohen]

Jim.

[Jim Acosta]

It's absolute bullshit.

[Michael Cohen]

When I watched Keir Starmer, the premiere there in the uk when I watched Keir Starmer turn around and make a plea to the other EU countries about ensuring Ukraine has proper support, both militarily as well as intelligence. And I kept saying to myself, that is supposed to be Donald Trump up there making that statement. That's not supposed to be Keir Starmer. That's not supposed to be anybody else. That's supposed to be the President of the United States of America. Whether you like the guy or you don't, he's supposed to be up there as the beacon of democracy in the world, as the leader of the free world, talking about how we are going to protect our allies, that we are going to ensure that Putin, an adversary of America, will not take control, will not continue this unjustified war against Ukraine and the Ukrainian people, will not then make a hard right turn into Poland and then try to take over the Baltic is. Well, in order to reorganize the former Soviet Union, the ussr. No, no, no and no. And what did we get? We got Trump winning a golf championship at one of his golf courses in Florida.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah, well, he says he won. They say he won. I mean, we have to be careful because, you know, it is his club, it is his tournament. I saw some video. Perhaps it was not. It was not correct video. I don't know. It looked like it was video from over the weekend, but it looked like he shanked one off in the woods. When you shank one off into the woods, I. You don't typically come down with the trophy at the end. At the end of the round.

[Michael Cohen]

I don't know. You do if it's your club. And I just. I can't wait. I imagine. Just imagine at. At the, at the dinner where he, as the President and the owner of the club.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah.

[Michael Cohen]

Purchased for himself yet another trophy and stands up.

[Jim Acosta]

Oh, boy.

[Michael Cohen]

I would like to thank myself for providing myself with this award. It's an honor. Right. You know, for me to have Wonders championship for the 30th time. I. I hope we did it.

[Jim Acosta]

We did it, Michael.

[Michael Cohen]

Right? We sure. We sure did it.

[Jim Acosta]

We did it. Yeah. Here's the trope. I got it right here. That. Oh, wait, it's a candlestick. Yes. And they can put the trophy right next to the fake Time magazine. And was it. I. I've been to some of these clubs where I suppose there's a legitimate Time magazine with him on it here and there. Yes. But there are some that you can tell this is a ginned up Sports Illustrated or Tiger Beat or whatever it is.

[Michael Cohen]

So let me just say this. He happens to be a good golfer. I've seen him legitimately play. He's probably a four handicap, all right. And that's an excellent, excellent golfer. But you have people that play at the club who I know personally, I know them personally, who are scratch players, meaning that they score a zero and the chance that a scratch player is going to, on a regular basis, lose to somebody who's a plus four. It's very, very rare.

[Jim Acosta]

Right.

[Michael Cohen]

Unless, of course, the guy happens to own the club and you don't want to get thrown out. And so instead of, you know, if you're up by two, well, you're five putt. Yeah.

[Jim Acosta]

I mean, maybe the caddy says, you know, hey, you know, maybe take this one for the team here and knock that one off into the woods or miss the two foot putt so the deer leader can come home with the trophy. Michael, it's always, it's always so much fun to chat with you. Great. Great, Michael. Monday, as always. You can't make this stuff up.

[Michael Cohen]

You can't. You know, it's sad that this is where our country is at right now. We're better than this. In fact, wouldn't we all just like to wake up tomorrow without a post, without the chaos, without the fighting, where.

[Jim Acosta]

Folks had that chance.

[Michael Cohen]

I was walking on Fifth Avenue where they have the St. Patty's Day parade, and I got to tell you, you know, there are a lot of Irish Maga supporters.

[Jim Acosta]

Right.

[Michael Cohen]

They just are, despite the fact that Trump's policies are hurting them. And I didn't want to start getting into conversations with people. Some people want to take pictures of me as I'm walking. Others wanted to kill me. It's not right. Wouldn't it be nice if we could wake up and then just all be Americans again? Right. It would be great for one day.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah. All of us. Not just one side, all of us. That's what it's all about.

[Michael Cohen]

One day. And see how nice it is so that we can try it again the day after. And then maybe the day after. And maybe the day after. Hey, by the way, one last thing. Once you ask this young lady, Oyer, who's coming on your show right after.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah.

[Michael Cohen]

Why they didn't approve my pardon application.

[Jim Acosta]

I'll ask.

[Michael Cohen]

I had seven historical figures writing letters. Right. Justifying why I was entitled to it. And why didn't Biden give it only to his family and not to other people?

[Jim Acosta]

Well, that's a good question on the line. Yeah. And I'll ask that and I'll. And just so you know, in the Acosta administration, Michael will get one of the first pardons. So that's how it's going to work there. So.

[Michael Cohen]

And vice versa, Jim.

[Jim Acosta]

If I fly around the planet like Superman backwards, or is that the other way? We can. We can also reverse conviction, Jim.

[Michael Cohen]

Thank you, brother. Good to see you, buddy.

[Jim Acosta]

All right, Thanks a lot, Michael.

[Michael Cohen]

Always.

[Jim Acosta]

Take care. Michael Cohen, Another edition of Michael Monday. You know, I mean, honestly is. It's a great way to start the week. Michael and I get through a lot of what's happening out there, which is obviously terrific to be able to do that. And, oh, boy, I'm trying to bring in Liz Oyer now. And I typed in Liz Lawyer, and then it autocorrected to something else. So let. There she is. Okay, let's add Liz. We are into the mix, and I'm seeing some people chime in and saying, Acosta Cohen, 2028. I mean, you know, there are crazy crazier ideas out there. Let's just do a podcast first. Let's just. Let's do a clean podcast and. And get through the clean podcast on the St. Patrick's Day. Hoping for a little luck of the Irish here so I can get Liz Oyer in here. Hi, Liz. How are you?

[Liz Oyer]

Hi, Jim. I'm doing well. How are you?

[Jim Acosta]

I'm great. I must have the luck of the Irish. My mom was right. If I wore green, good things would happen today. And it's great to have you on.

[Liz Oyer]

I forgot my green, but I'm happy to be here and feeling good.

[Jim Acosta]

That's great to see you. And, you know, I just want to tell folks, and correct me if I get any of this wrong, but you were a former. You are a former pardon attorney at the Department of Justice. That was your job at the Department of Justice. Did you have other jobs prior to that? And tell us a little bit about how you got to be here today and what's been happening to you over the last few weeks. I know you were shown the door by the Trump administration. Tell us about it.

[Liz Oyer]

Yeah, so I have been at the Department of Justice for three years, but I actually spent a large part of my career prior to that as a defense attorney, including 10 years spent as a federal public defender. And what I will say that is just so alarming to me about what's going on with the justice system right now, as somebody who's been both at DOJ and a defense attorney, is that Trump is really attacking it from both directions. He is waging a, a multifaceted war on the rule of law. And he is, at the same time as he's attacking the Department of Justice, he is also kneecapping the defense bar in a way that makes it a really scary time to be someone who is caught up in a prosecution.

[Jim Acosta]

So tell us a little bit about your departure from the Department of Justice, because I was reading what you wrote in Rolling Stone where you said essentially one of Trump's defense lawyers, who now has a very high level position at the Department of Justice, which is a commentary in and of itself of what's going on over there, essentially sent security over to you to remove you from the Department of Justice and then proceeded to say things about you that were not true.

[Liz Oyer]

Yeah. So my role as pardon attorney is a non political appointment. It's a job essentially that is intended to ensure that people who do not have political power, who don't have connections, who don't have access to the White House through the front door, can be considered for the same benefit of clemency as those who have those personal relationships with the president. And my strong hope was that I would be able to continue that work into this administration and that there would be a place for ordinary people who have very strong cases for second chances through clemency could also be considered. That obviously didn't happen. I was tasked with participating in a working group related to restoring gun rights, which is not something that typically the office had a role in. And. And I was asked specifically to provide a recommendation to the attorney general that she restore the gun rights of the actor Mel Gibson. And it was explained to me that he has a personal relationship with the president and that I shouldn't need to know very much more. About him to be able to make that recommendation to the Attorney general. There is a statute under which the Attorney General has the authority to restore firearm rights to individuals who've been disenfranchised by having a criminal conviction. So, of course she can go ahead and do that without my recommendation. But what was interesting about this situation is that it was important to the staff of the Office of the Deputy Attorney General, to Todd Blanche's staff, that I make that recommendation to the Attorney General, which seems to suggest that there is a desire to identify career employees in the department who can give a veneer of legitimacy to political decisions by making recommendations. Or it's similar in some ways to the Eric Adams case in which they're scouring the earth trying to find a career prosecutor who will dismiss the case because it's important to the legitimacy of the action that is undertaken in the ordinary course, even though the purpose of it is blatantly political in nature.

[Jim Acosta]

And was it also a bit of a litmus test that was being applied to you to some extent, too? Let's see who played ball with us.

[Liz Oyer]

Yeah. No, it certainly seemed like it was a litmus test. It seems like in the department right now, anything you say, anything you're asked to do, how you respond to it, how quickly you respond, whether you ask questions, it's all. Everyone is being evaluated.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah. Well, there are so many things in the news, and it's perfect that you were on the program for today. I'm no genius. I didn't make it this way. We booked you last week, but then we saw Trump's speech at the Justice Department, which obviously those kinds of speeches don't come very often. A president goes over there to deliver a speech at the Justice Department to make a point, to, I guess, reach for a higher narrative, to sort of tell the story of America in some way, shape or form, whether it's going after terrorism, you name it. But it seemed in this case, it was Trump trying to continue to advance this idea that he's going to seek retribution as president and he's going to use the Justice Department to do it. He was talking about people like James Comey and so on. What was your takeaway when you saw the speech that he delivered over at the Justice Department?

[Liz Oyer]

I think really the most disturbing feature of the speech was that Trump came into the Department of Justice and announced that he is the chief law enforcement officer in this country. Now, that's the Attorney General's job. The attorney general is the chief law enforcement officer. And him coming into that building being introduced by Pam Bondi and then making that declaration on her stage in her building essentially underscores how weak she is as an attorney general and the lengths that the president is going to to fill the Department of Justice with people who are essentially puppet leaders. He is the person who is calling the shots. He's the person who is setting the agenda for the Department of Justice. And Pam Bondi is really just there to carry out his orders. She said something to that effect in her introduction, that she was there to everyone is there to fulfill the president's directives. They have underscored to the career workforce, the leaders of the Department of Justice, that we are all President Trump's lawyers. And most of them, in fact, have worked as President Trump's lawyers. So that's really an alarming new direction for the Department of Justice Justice. Pam Bondi did not, during the time I was there, ever introduce herself to the career workforce. She did not give her own speech in which she set priorities for the department. And she's now demonstrated that she is somebody who is not going to be independent and is not going to stand up to the president. One of the things that's really interesting about this situation with Mel Gibson and his gum rights is she is somebody who is on record saying that a formative experience of her career was prosecuting domestic violence misdemeanors. She talked about a case. She gave a speech about a case in which she represented a domestic violence victim who was murdered with a gun by her abuser. She's somebody who's on record as saying that she believes that people with domestic violence histories, you know, are dangerous and needed. So, you know, it's just such a staggering turnaround for her. And I think it demonstrates that she is letting the president dictate the agenda. She has no agenda of her own. The president is in charge of the Department of Justice, which is just incredibly alarming, given all the tools and powers that that institution possesses.

[Jim Acosta]

And I talk about this on my show all the time. It's just contrary to the American way of life. It is not the norm, whether you're talking about Republican presidents or Democratic presidents in this country, for the president of the United States to consider himself the chief law enforcement officer of this country. And, Liz, given your experience dealing with presidential pardons, I'm just curious. I'm sure you saw this in the news. Not to ask you 20 questions about what's in the news, but Trump making this assertion on his social media account that Biden's pardons that were issued at the end of his administration are somehow invalid because he used an auto pen, I guess. Can you fact check that for us?

[Liz Oyer]

So, Jim, I wasn't working inside the White House, so I have no knowledge of how those pardons were signed or. Or any of that. And I also, you know, my job.

[Jim Acosta]

That's true. Good point.

[Liz Oyer]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So. So my job as partner attorney was really not to weigh in on the. I will call them political pardons. I think that is a political pardon. You know, my. I was not consulted on that. I did not have any. Any role in that particular pardon. My job, as I mentioned earlier, is really to ensure that people who don't have those political connections can also be considered in the pardon process. But what I will say is, you know, we can have a legitimate debate about whether you should be able to issue a preemptive pardon as president. We should have. We could have a legitimate debate about whether the president should have the authority to pardon friends and family members. There are a lot of legitimate questions about the scope of the presidential pardon power as it exists. But the fact is that currently the president does have that power, and once the president makes that decision, it cannot be undone by a subsequent president. There is no precedent for that, and there's no basis in law for that. That is just this president coming in and grabbing for another lever of power.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah. So when Trump says, I declare this void, he's obviously. He's just saying something into the wind here. It has no effect. It has no legal effect.

[Liz Oyer]

He is just a bully whose actions have largely gone unchecked. And I think he's testing limits. Seeing, will anyone check me on this if I just declare that these are void? It's very alarming that he is so thoroughly infiltrating the Department of Justice, filling it with his political loyalists, undermining the defense function by targeting defense attorneys who are willing to take on cases of people who he doesn't like. And he's also gone to great lengths to remove ethical guardrails within the Department of Justice to essentially ensure that he can do as he pleases. And it's very scary to think about who's gonna be left to check any of this. At the end of the day, I think the pardon issue is really just another example of another lever of power that he's trying to grab onto.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah. And, I mean, obviously, he's making a case for those Biden pardons for the January 6 committee, because Trump is making a case clear in that social media post that he still wants to Go after those people. What is your view of the pardon power? Is it too broad when it comes to what the president can do with the pardon power? It seems to me it's really out of control. And I'm just curious what your take is on it, having been in that area of the Justice Department.

[Liz Oyer]

So I came into the role of pardon attorney, having spent 10 years as a federal public defender, and. And you've got very few tools in your toolkit as a public defender. So there's a lot of groveling. There's a lot of groveling, there's a lot of begging, There's a lot of pleading to try to get an outcome that feels fair for a client. So I was in awe of the pardon power because it's just this unbelievable tool to correct injustices with literally the stroke of a pen. I was coming at it from that perspective, thinking this could do so much good for so many people, and we seen times when it has. President Obama's clemency initiative is a great example of using the pardon power to really benefit a lot of very deserving people. Since then, there have been uses of the pardon power that have rightly caused people to question whether it should be as broad as it is, whether it's being used appropriately. I will say that the function of the office of the pardon attorney is even more important in those times because there has to be a path for that relief for individuals who don't have political access and connections. But there are legitimate questions that have been raised about whether the power is too broad. I will say that if the power were eliminated, it would be very damaging to a lot of people who have no other paths forward to get second chances. We have many, many people in this country who are serving overly lengthy sentences of imprisonment for drug offenses pursuant to mandatory minimums, for example. And, you know, clemency is a remedy that can be very, well, well used to. To help those individuals.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah, no, I mean, there's no question about it. I remember when Obama did it, Biden obviously did it. I guess Michael Coe was saying before he came on he wished Biden had done it for him. What do you. What do you think of. I mean, Michael, he has a story to tell. It's tough to go through these individual cases. Did you ever run across. Maybe you can't speak to it. Did you ever run across the Michael Cohen case? If you don't mind me asking that question.

[Liz Oyer]

So I generally don't talk about individual cases that may or may not have come before me. But what I will say about that is his case is a good example of many people do not understand how harsh the criminal justice system can be and how unfair it can seem until they find themselves in the middle of it. That has been the case for, you know, many, many people who have come to see the criminal justice system differently after they've been affected by it personally. Some of those people go on to advocate for reforms that are broadly beneficial to others. And some people really can't see past their own circumstances. I would say that President Trump is maybe in that latter camp where he is feeling aggrieved by how he was treated and he is not able to see more broadly that the criminal justice system is harsh. Sometimes he's really only able to focus on how unfairly he feels that he was treated, which is unfortunate.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah, no, there's no question about, and forgive me for putting you on the spot like that, but the one thing I did want to ask you about, and again, if this goes out your outside your wheelhouse, let me know. But Trump defying the Trump administration, defying a judge's order when it comes to those deportations of the Venezuelan alleged gang members, it just seems to me that what Trump is trying to do is put his administration on a collision course with the courts to sort of dare them play chicken and see what they will do if he defies their orders. Have you been a observing that? What have been your thoughts on this? Because to me, this might be the most chilling thing that's happening out there just about over and above anything else that's happening in the news right now. If the executive branch, if the White House can just thumb its nose at the courts in this country, then you have to ask the question, what can the White House do in defiance of court orders and where does it stop?

[Liz Oyer]

Yeah, it's very alarming. I will say that the courts seem more important than ever now because they are the last line of defense against this steamroll. The president appears to be steamrolling his way over anyone who is preventing him from gaining full control over the justice system on this path toward destroying the rule of law. And the courts are an important last line of defense, and I am hopeful that they will retain their ability to put some brakes on this. There are some things happening within the department that I think have been little noticed but are making it easier for him to do some of the things that he's doing. For example, DOJ has pretty rigorous ethics rules. There previously has always been a career official who oversees matters of ethics and professional responsibility. There is no longer a career official overseeing those things. There are now members of President Trump's personal defense team, political appointees, who are overseeing those functions. So essentially, you know, they're policing themselves. All of the internal brakes are off, so the external resistance is more important than ever. He is trying to diminish the ability of the defense barr to put brakes on what he's doing. And my hope is that he will not be able to do the same with the courts.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah. Well, Liz, my hat's off to you for going out there and speaking out publicly. Not everybody has done this. I noticed a lot of comments in our chat during this conversation where people have been very appreciative of what you've done over at the Justice Department. The idea that Trump could have his defense attorneys running the Justice Department and then running off people like yourself, people who are dedicated to the work over at the Justice Department. I know there's so many other people at the Justice Department who have been going through what you've been going through, and I just can't imagine what's happening to that place right now. It is so vital. It's like part of the glue that keeps this country together. Our justice system.

[Liz Oyer]

Yep, yep. It's an incredibly important institution. And the folks who are still there, I hope that they will be able to stay and do some good. But it is an extremely challenging time to work inside the Department of Justice.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah. All right. Well, Liz Oyer, thank you so much for coming on. I really appreciate it. I hope I didn't go on too long and scare you off from coming on again, but really appreciate your time.

[Liz Oyer]

I enjoy being here. Thanks, Jim.

[Jim Acosta]

All right, Thanks a lot. That is Liz Oyer. Bye. Bye. Take care. Bye. Bye. Justice Department attorney. Former Justice Department attorney who worked inside the pardon office had a lot of insights as to a lot of stuff going on in the news today. I did want to wrap up the show with a couple of items. I mean, again, you know, I've done this in the past. I'm going to do it again here at the end of this program. I'm going to dip into what I call the Dear Leader files. This is, you know, recurring segment, not every day, but this is happening. It may be happening right now. Donald Trump is scheduled to tour the Kennedy center for the Performing Arts in Washington and preside over its board meeting. The move is part of Trump's takeover of the storied institution, the Washington Post reports, which has included a purge of leadership and his installation as chairman of the board. You know, obviously, what Liz was talking about a few moments ago about what's taking place at the Justice Department, what Michael Cohen was talking about earlier with respect to, you know, what has been taking place inside the Democratic Party and their ability to stand up to Trump. Those are, those are the big stakes in all of this. There's no question about it. Those are the big stakes. I, I fully grant you, if you're going to make the point that, that perhaps talking about the Kennedy center is, is not of the same caliber of story as, as those two items. But I do want to say, and perhaps this is because I'm a member of the press, I'm a broadcaster. I consider myself somebody who is a part of the arts to some extent. I have a bachelor of arts from my alma mater, James Madison University, and the arts mean a lot to me. I can't tell you how many times. And I grew up in the Washington, D.C. area. I grew up in Northern Virginia. I've talked about this before. Can't tell you how many times I've been over to the Kennedy Center. And one of the last times I was there was to see Hamilton. I saw Hamilton at the Kennedy center. And, and the people were so nice. They spotted me and they said, hey, come backstage, take a look around. Went backstage behind the scenes at Hamilton. And the people there just could not have been nicer human beings. I've been there for the Washington Ballet Company and their events that they have there. Very good friend of mine, Timothy Lowry, has taken me backstage over at the Kennedy center to, to attend some events on behalf of the Washington Ballet. And it just, it aggravates me to know, and perhaps this is, this is the intent. The intent is to make people's blood boil inside the nation's capital. And if so, I guess mission accomplished to some extent. But the Kennedy center is one of the crown jewels of the nation's capital. It is one of the most important institutions of the nation's capital. That is why it is named after President Kennedy. A real president. A real president. John F. Kennedy was a real president. That's why the Kennedy center is named after him. And for Donald Trump to go on a tour over there and do the Dear Leader thing and look around and maybe they'll take a picture of, you know, I hope, I hope that when he goes over to the Kennedy center that they take a picture of Donald Trump in front of that iconic bust, that massive homage to John Fitzgerald Kennedy. Because at that moment, and I really hope they, because at that moment, even as he's, even as Trump is standing in the majestic hallways of the Kennedy center, and somebody's asking, in a tutu, maybe? Yeah, maybe in a tutu. I don't want to see those legs. Honestly, that's, that's not a good idea. Let's not go down that road. I, I want to see him in that setting because it will reveal how small a human being he is. For the President of the United States to dedicate any of his time to some sort of hostile takeover of the Kennedy center only shows how small he is on the political stage. Yeah. As Michael Cohen was indicating a little while ago, we have Donald Trump for another. We're scheduled to have him for another four years. But he is on that stage in such a lonely way. He's all alone. Sure, he might have MAGA behind him, he might have the likes of Elon Musk behind him, but the people who care deeply about the arts in this country, the people who care deeply about institutions like the Kennedy center in this country, they're not in the theater. They're certainly not standing and applauding. Because on that stage, in a place called the Kennedy Center, Donald Trump could not be smaller. He does not command the stage at the Kennedy Center. It is that action in and of itself that makes him. I don't know, what do they call that? A one night wonder. One show and you're gone. He's just, he's just, he just doesn't. This is just another shining example of how he just doesn't measure up to the job, and he certainly doesn't measure up to somebody like John F. Kennedy. I want to thank everybody for tuning in to this episode of the Jim Acosta Show. My thoughts are with everybody over at the Kennedy center this week. I know it must just be sickening to see what's taking place over there. And, and for the folks in the arts community here in Washington, just know that there are so many people behind you. There's so many people standing with you. They know how disgusting this is. They know how wrong this is. And yes, you are going through what Liz Oyer, who was on my show just a while ago, what she and the people at the Justice Department are going through. We're seeing a hostile takeover of key institutions here in Washington, D.C. there's no question about it. And there's not a whole lot that can be done about it right now. And yeah, I could have brought some jokes here. You know, what if they called it the Trump center and the Village People perform night after night? There's a show there at the Kennedy center called sheer madness. And I suppose that is a it is a bit of a commentary on what's happening right now, a bit of a metaphor for what's happening right we are in the midst of sheer madness here in the nation's capital, but we're going to get through it. Mark my words. We're going to get through it. Kennedy center is going to get through it. The legacy of John F. Kennedy will get through it. We're all going to get through it, ladies and gentlemen. And when we do, we'll all meet back at the Kennedy center for the return of what this institution is all about, what this nation's capital is all about, what this country is all about, respect for human decency, respect for one another, something he doesn't understand, something the man who will be standing over at the Kennedy center will never understand. But thank you once again for tuning in on this St. Patrick's Day edition of the Jim Acosta Show. A little homage to my mom's side of the family where there's a their Irish roots that go back. I don't know. We did a thing on finding your roots on pbs. I still haven't talked about that on this program, but that goes back centuries in, in Ireland, and I need to talk about that at some we'll do that at a different time. Fellow just like John, not quite as Irish as John, John F. Kennedy, but pretty close. Well, not even close, but maybe a fraction of of the Irish he brought to the table. But, but anyway, thanks everybody for tuning in today. I'll be back tomorrow. And stay tuned. Some enhancements coming to the Jim Acosta Show. Some enhancements coming to my presence here on Substack and so many other platforms. So a little teaser, but stay tuned for that. But in the meantime, thanks everybody for watching. Still reporting from Washington, I'm Jim Acosta. Have a good Evening, everybody. Happy St. Patrick's Day.