Michael Fanone reacts to being targeted by a bomb threat at political conference in DC and Michael Cohen weighs in on CPAC.

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Jim Acosta Show Episode Title: Michael Fanone reacts to being targeted by a bomb threat at political conference in DC and Michael Cohen weighs in on CPAC
Release Date: February 24, 2025
Host: Jim Acosta

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Introduction: Rising Tensions in Washington, D.C.

Jim Acosta opens the episode by highlighting the escalating fears in Washington, D.C., where federal workers are receiving threatening emails from Elon Musk and his Dogecoin team. The host introduces the key topics of the day: the bomb threat targeting Michael Fanone at the Principals First Summit and insights from Michael Cohen on the Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC).

Section 1: The Menacing Climate in D.C.

Michael Cohen discusses the growing sense of intimidation in the nation's capital, emphasizing the impact of President Trump's pardoning over 1,500 January 6th defendants. He states:

"The fact that President Trump pardoned 1500 plus of these January 6th defendants… there is now no longer accountability. They are now empowered to literally go out and do whatever they want."
(02:15)

Cohen criticizes Elon Musk's recent actions, specifically the email demanding federal employees list their weekly accomplishments, labeling it as an intimidation tactic and illegal. He asserts that Cash Patel, the acting FBI Director, resisted these demands, showcasing internal conflicts within the administration.

Section 2: Elon Musk’s Email Controversy and FBI Appointments

Jim Acosta presents the contentious email sent by Elon Musk, instructing federal employees to report their weekly activities under threat of job loss. Michael Cohen responds with sarcasm, suggesting hiring a comedian to respond to such absurd requests. He further comments on the appointments of Cash Patel and Dan Bongino to the FBI, expressing concerns over potential biases:

"But I will say that Cash Patel held the line. Just because Elon Musk wants to do something doesn't mean Cash Patel… did not go along with the bullshit."
(05:21)

Cohen defends Patel's actions, suggesting that Patel protected Trump from the detrimental effects of Musk's directives.

Section 3: CPAC, Steve Bannon, and Extremist Salutes

The conversation shifts to CPAC, where Steve Bannon's controversial salute resembling a Nazi gesture sparks outrage. Michael Cohen shares a personal anecdote about Steve Bannon's alleged anti-Semitic remarks during the 2016 campaign, arguing that Bannon is "politically astute" unlike Elon Musk, whom he describes as "out of his mind."

"Steve Bannon is calculated. He is an incredibly bright guy, as Elon Musk is, in a different way. Elon is not politically astute."
(15:54)

Jim Acosta emphasizes the inappropriateness of associating with extremist groups like the Proud Boys and the need for presidential disassociation from such factions.

Section 4: Principals First Conference and Targeting of Michael Fanone

Michael Fanone recounts the alarming events at the Principals First Summit, where members of the Proud Boys attempted to intimidate attendees, including himself. He describes receiving a bomb threat that not only targeted him but also his 76-year-old mother:

"The email listed a number of the speakers… especially Michael Fanone. But also… my 76-year-old mother… was also listed and targeted with a bomb threat at her residence."
(43:03)

Fanone condemns the tactics of extremist groups aimed at creating chaos and fostering fear, linking these actions to the broader climate of political violence instigated since January 6th.

Section 5: Threats to American Democracy and Rising Extremism

Both Jim Acosta and Michael Cohen express deep concerns over the normalization of far-right ideologies and the potential erosion of American democratic values. Cohen warns of a possible civil war if the trend continues:

"When you start putting in all of the loyalists, this country is going to see a problem that is so huge. The only way we will ultimately keep a democracy is there's going to be a civil war. That's my prediction."
(31:22)

Acosta stresses the importance of not waiting for midterm elections to address these issues, advocating for immediate action to counteract the spread of extremist ideologies.

Section 6: Reflection on Ukraine and International Implications

Jim Acosta transitions to the anniversary of Russia's invasion of Ukraine, highlighting the sacrifices of Ukrainian forces and condemning misleading narratives that shift blame onto Ukraine. He references a New York Times article by Peter Baker, which exposes lies propagated by Trump regarding Ukraine.

"Please do not cheapen what those people have accomplished… they're defending their country."
(51:46)

Both hosts reaffirm the necessity of supporting Ukraine and maintaining truth in international affairs.

Conclusion: Call to Action and Upholding Democracy

In closing, Jim Acosta emphasizes the urgency of addressing the rise in political extremism and the threats posed by influential figures like Elon Musk and Steve Bannon. He underscores the need for collective American action to preserve democratic values and reject authoritarian tendencies.

"It's our responsibility. It's each and every American's responsibility to right this wrong."
(51:16)

Michael Fanone adds a poignant reminder of the real-life consequences of political violence and extremist rhetoric, urging for immediate and decisive measures to safeguard democracy.

Notable Quotes:

• Michael Cohen:
  "You don't have to do that yet. But I do want to talk about it, but, Michael, the thing I wanted to talk about you first and foremost…"
  (02:15)

• Michael Fanone:
  "Outrage is the appropriate response. Anger is the appropriate response. We just need to channel that into action."
  (36:19)

• Jim Acosta:
  "The proud Boys have no place in politics. They have no place in American society."
  (42:12)

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This episode of The Jim Acosta Show delves into the pressing issues of political intimidation, the influence of extremist groups, and the fragile state of American democracy. Through candid discussions with Michael Cohen and Michael Fanone, Acosta highlights the urgent need for unity and action to combat the rising tide of authoritarianism and preserve the foundational values of the United States.

Transcript

[Michael Cohen]

Sure is. We are live, by the way, just so you know, the people are beginning to pour in.

[Jim Acosta]

I like it. I like it. Well, Michael, good to see you as always. It's. It's Monday, I like to call it. Michael Monday. We're going to try to do this as often as we can. And it's kind of a manic Monday in the nation's capital. Mounting concerns about what's happening back in D.C. fears rising, not just among federal workers who have been on the receiving end of threatening emails from Elon Musk and his Doge team. There was a, a bomb threat that forced the evacuation of attendees at the principal's first summit in Washington over the weekend. Former D.C. police officer Michael Fanone, who was on the receiving end of that threat, mentioned in the emailed bomb threat. He joins me a little longer in the program to discuss that. And he. I got that email. We'll read it to everybody in a minute. Michael Cohen is here on the Jim Acosta Show. We're going to be talking about.

[Michael Cohen]

The guy is doing his job. I know he's a D.C. police officer protecting the Capitol. Whether you agree with what's going on or not, whether you're a pro Trumper or you're an anti Trumper, all he was doing was his job.

[Jim Acosta]

That's right.

[Michael Cohen]

And to be assaulted. And now, you know, with bomb threats and swatting and doxing in the whole nine yards, it's so wrong.

[Jim Acosta]

I'm going to ask him about it. I'm going to ask him about it because Enrique Tarrio from the Proud Boys, he showed up at this conference and there was a, a bunch of shouting going on. He obviously was trying to start a disruption there, an incident there. And so Fanon's going to fill us in on that. But, Michael, I'm glad we have you with us.

[Michael Cohen]

He did. My understanding is he was rearrested, I heard. Yeah, that's right. Actually assaulted a woman protester and. Yeah, they took him. They took him into custody.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah. I mean, it just goes to show you that there's kind of this menacing climate in D.C. right now, and you can't even go to a political summit without some of these January 6th types trying to roll in there and intimidate everybody. I mean, they had CPAC over the weekend and you would think, okay, that's enough. You know, if they have cpac, they can go to CPAC and they can go do their thing there. Do they really need to go to some of these other political conferences and try to disrupt things?

[Michael Cohen]

And the Answer is yes, they do.

[Jim Acosta]

The answer is yes.

[Michael Cohen]

You know, why, people? Because there's no accountability. The fact that President Trump pardoned 1500 plus of these January 6th defendants, as he likes to call them, there is now no longer accountability. They are now empowered to literally go out and do whatever they want. You want to come after me, right? This is what now I'm going to end up doing. Basically, it's to stifle First Amendment.

[Jim Acosta]

And that's the climate in D.C. right now. That's the atmosphere in D.C. right now. I mean, these January 6th types, they've been let loose, they've been sprung by Donald Trump, and now they can go and try to intimidate people. And to me, that is kind of the theme of this show today is intimidation. Because there's intimidation going on at political conferences like that. There's intimidation going on inside the federal government where Elon Musk and his Doge team, they're sending out these emails to federal workers, very threatening, saying you have to respond and list all of the things that you've done in the last week. And if you don't do this, you're going to lose their job. And now some of the federal agencies are saying you don't have to do that. And so there's a lot of confusion about that. I do want to talk about it, but, Michael, the thing I wanted to talk about you first and foremost. There are already more worries now about the independence of the FBI. We already have Cash Patel going in there as the FBI Director. And, and now Dan Bongino has been named the Deputy Director of the FBI. He's a former New York City police sergeant, Secret Service agent, but more specifically, he is a right wing talk show host, podcaster, election denier, you name it. And he's going to have a very important position as the Deputy Director of the FBI. I mean, Michael, your thoughts on that? I mean, it's just so out of the norm.

[Michael Cohen]

I'm going to give you a contrarian thought, thought for a quick moment, please. Elon Musk goes and sends out this letter, as you just stated, demanding that each person who receives the letter is to respond immediately by Monday as to what they've accomplished over the course of the past week. Well, it was actually Cash Patel who turned around and told all of the recipients, do not do it. All right? He is the one who said it. And we all understand that Cash Patel, of course, is a loyalist. So the hope is that while Dan Bongino is a podcaster, and yes, he has law enforcement in the late 90s, he was, I believe, a New York City police officer, and then for like 12 or 13 years, Secret Service agent. Does that make him qualify to be the Deputy Director of the FBI? I don't know. Right. What makes that qualification? But I will say that Cash Patel held the line. Just because Elon Musk wants to do something doesn't mean Cash Patel, who is a true, true Trump loyalist, did not go along. Did not go along with the bullshit. Not first. Yeah.

[Jim Acosta]

What's your read on that? Is that, I mean, sometimes we see this happening in Trump world where, you know, you think everybody's singing from the same song sheet, but they're not. There are rivalries, their elbows being thrown. And maybe there's some of that going on here, I don't know. But, I mean, to me, it's disturbing to have Cash Patel and Dan Bongino in charge over the FBI. Put aside the Elon Musk thing.

[Michael Cohen]

Me, personally, I'm not concerned about it, because ultimately, what I think Cash Patel fully understood is that the law was not going to ignore to their benefit. And so he actually did the right thing, not just for all of those recipients of that email, but he did the right thing for Trump. You see, when you have people whispering into Trump's ear, do X, Y and Z, and it may not be for Trump's own benefit, it may seem like it's a punch to the gut that we're going to stir things up, we're going to shake shit up here in D.C. but then you have loyalists who turn around and say, no, no, no, no. What we're going to do is we're actually going to protect Trump from himself. Gary Cohn used to talk about all the time that. About all the time Scaramucci used to talk about. Steven Mnuchin used to talk about it. Sometimes you have to protect the boss from himself. And I think that's exactly what Keshe Patel did. And he did it probably because he's not thrilled with Elon Musk and Elon Musk's ongoing continuous assumption of power.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah, I mean, I obtained a couple of these emails. I can read it to folks. I mean, this. This went out to HHS employees on Saturday. It says, op, OPM sent an email to all federal employees titled what did you do last week? And it says, this is a legitimate email. Please read and respond per the instructions by Monday, February 24, 11:59pm Eastern Standard Time. And that was sent out to HHS employees. And then this. I obtained this email that went out to employees at the nih, the National Institutes of Health, and it says, dear colleagues, you've received the below email from HHS earlier today. We ask that you please hold on responding to OPM until we receive further guidance. And this is from the acting director at nih. So, I mean, Michael, can you, I mean, fathom what some of these federal workers are going through in that, you know, they're told one thing by Doge and Elon Musk, and then their own agency heads are saying, no, no, don't do this yet. And as you were saying over at the FBI, they're disregarding this. There are some agencies that are saying, we're just not going to do this. I mean, this just seems like utter chaos.

[Michael Cohen]

You see what I would have done if I received that email, I would have reached out and I would have hired a comedian to actually respond. Yeah, you know, I woke up Monday, so and so date, yeah. Wasn't feeling great, so I took like a massive shit, right? And then, you know, after that I went ahead and I took a shower, I washed my hair. You know, I used shampoo today. Normally I try. I mean, I would just go on and on. Then I say I had the great, you know, oatmeal with some blueberries, you know, along with a nice green tea. You know, after that I went outside, I had myself, you know, a cigarette, you know, then forgot that I didn't put on my shoes. Put on my shoes. And then, you know, I would make, I like this and total joke out of it because, right, a stupid thing to write, it is a stupid thing to send out. And it was absolutely ill thought out by Elon Musk. He has to understand this is not a group of techies when you're talking about coding. And before AI, you know, you could work on one string of coding for a month. And because you're on a dollar, right, you know, you're on the payroll, you can turn around and say, hey, we really need to get this out now. And so tell me, where are you at this week versus the week before? That's Elon Musk's mentality. And that shit works. 4 if a bunch of young kids coding. Keep me honest and make sure that you're working as diligently as you can, because every day you need that code finished for the program. This is not coding. And Elon has to understand that things like this are not just disruptive to government, they are illegal. They are illegal. You'll end up with a massive lawsuit and a class action lawsuit against the US Government because it is violative of your rights, it goes against union rules. It goes against everything. So Elon Musk made yet another mistake. Now, to be fair to Elon Musk, while giving his press conference in the Oval Office, as Trump sat there looking on and staring at the camera, he did acknowledge that there was going to be mistake states. Well, Elon, congratulations, you made another one.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah, I mean, I guess it's true what you're saying. I mean, if you use, if you send back an email that says, well, I watched, you know, a little tv, I took my dog out for a walk, you know, that kind of stuff. I suppose that might work. But it sounds as though you have agencies. I mean, like the nih, for example, you have people there. I'm working on what did I do this week. I worked on a cure for cancer. Is that not enough for you people? Why do I have to list five things? Why can't it just be one thing? I mean, I just, to me it just seems like amateur hour. And you know, you bring in Elon Musk and it sounds good and ooh, out on the campaign trail, we're gonna have this DOGE thing or something. But a lot of this in practice and what we've seen over the last couple of weeks, it just sounds idiotic. It just sounds, it's, it just, it just sounds stupid. And so like, what the hell is going on? Is this any way to run a.

[Michael Cohen]

Rover as CNN letting you leave? Let's not get into that.

[Jim Acosta]

Let's, you know, there's, but there's a lot of stupid things we can compare it to. And I, to me, it's, it's just, it makes you wonder, what if there's something very wrong with Elon Musk. Because I mean, Jim, let me. Yeah.

[Michael Cohen]

If you had total control and you could do whatever you want, you know. Yeah. What was the name of this show? Like the Crown or something like that where. Yeah, you can, you feel like walking around the palace nude? No problem. You tell everybody to walk around new too, because you're the king, you can do whatever you want. That's how Elon Musk is acting. And it's why on our last Monday Michael show together, I turn around and said the, this relationship is going to be short lived because ultimately when Donald starts to feel the pressure of the foolishness and he's the one where everybody says, let me be very clear, you know, the old expression, shit flows downhill. You, sir, are the President of the United States. You haven't abdicated the throne you haven't abdicated the Lincoln desk. All right? To Elon Musk. He is making decisions that make you look not just weak, make you look stupid. And that's not something that Trump will ever allow.

[Jim Acosta]

And I kind of wonder, Michael, because you and I haven't talked in a week here. You know, we were talking earlier about this Principal Principals First Summit and the bomb threat that went in there. I'm going to talk to Fanon about this in just a little bit, but CPAC was going on this past weekend, too. We need to talk about CPAC because, yeah, I know you've been there. I've been there lots of times. I mean, you've been there going back years. And, you know, I mean, the thing that is highly disturbing and we've seen a lot of conversation about this over the weekend is, you know, what is, what is Steve Bannon doing getting up there in front of everybody doing this salute? You know, he, he claims this was not a Nazi salute. But, you know, you have Elon Musk on Inauguration day doing this salute. And he says, oh, no, it's not a Nazi salute. And then Steve Bannon gets up there and it looks like he does a Nazi salute. He says, no, I didn't do a Nazi salute. What is going on there, Michael?

[Michael Cohen]

I mean, it's amazing that you asked me that question, because going back into 2016, I'll tell you a story. I've never told the story before. So you're, you know, you're in my followers. We're going to hear some stuff during our programs that nobody's ever heard before. During the campaign, there were allegations of Steve Bannon being an anti Semite. And, you know, I'll never forget he went into Trump because it absolutely upset him. It really did. Now, if you're an anti Semite, being called an anti Semite shouldn't really upset you at all, right? I mean, you are what you are, Jim. You know, you're a guy with glasses, right. That doesn't make you upset? I'm wearing readers, too.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah.

[Michael Cohen]

He came into my office, he sat down and he said to me, can, can we talk? I said, sure. What's up? So, and, and Steve and I, we're always at butting heads. Never fought, but we always butted heads. He said to me, they're writing stories that I'm an anti Semite. So I said to him, well, are you? So he goes, no. So I said, well, then why are they saying it? And he told me the story that he had made a comment and it could be taken as anti Semitic. So I said, well, once, just apologize and say it's a. I spoke improperly. I did not use the best choice of words and go on and apologize and so on. He said, would you write a letter on my behalf? So I said, I can't do that, so why not? We're supposed to protect each other, so. Well, better it should come from you than from me. And he actually did it, which is why I don't believe it's the same as. Elon Musk is out of his mind. He's running around right now. Steve Bannon is not. Steve Bannon is calculated. He is incredibly bright guy as Elon Musk is, in a different way. Elon is not politically astute.

[Jim Acosta]

He.

[Michael Cohen]

He's just fucking rich. Steve Bannon is wealthy, but Steve Bannon is politically astute. He didn't do a Nazi salute. Knowing that that was going to become the talk of everything. Why they have to do this, why they have to make the salute, or why they even do anything that even remotely resembles the salute to me.

[Jim Acosta]

Right?

[Michael Cohen]

Idiotic.

[Jim Acosta]

And I'm sorry. But, you know, you're associating with people like the Proud Boys. You're associating with people like the Oath Keepers. You know, to me, it's just very disturbing. And the thing that I wanted to talk about is.

[Michael Cohen]

Can I just jump in for one second?

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah, go ahead. Go ahead.

[Michael Cohen]

Proud Boys, the Oath Keepers, while they may be anti Semitic, they're also anti black, they're anti brown, they're anti LGBTQ plus, they're anti everything. And the reason Steve Bannon controls them is because they are a massive part of the MAGA base. And that's who Steve Bannon is trying to appeal to, because they believe that it makes sense for him, for Trump, and for this administration. Anti Semitism.

[Jim Acosta]

The thing I want to say, though, is.

[Michael Cohen]

Woman. Yes.

[Jim Acosta]

All of those things. There's no question about it. All of it's unacceptable. But this comes down to the President of the United States needs to make it extremely clear, I don't want to see a salute like that. I don't even want to see somebody coming close to a salute like that. You do anything close to a salute like that, you're never coming in the White House again. You're never going to be at a conference that I'll be associated with ever again. And I just think it's completely unacceptable that. That something like this would go on. And I just have to say the thing that I get worried about. And, Michael, you And I have talked about this before, is the effect on young people in this country. When you go to CPAC conferences, you see a lot of young conservatives there. And I don't want to ever come close in this country to a day where we normalize this kind of far right, nationalist, white nationalist, neo Nazi shit at all. I mean, to me, it is completely unacceptable. It is completely beyond the pale, and it has no place in American society.

[Michael Cohen]

If I were still there in Trump's camp, if he called me and said to me, come here and fix it, I would literally have every single person, I don't care if they're Jewish, I don't care if they're gentile. I would bring them all into chamber, right? We asked to use chamber. And I would turn the next one of you. Not just, not just, are you out of here? On the way out, every single person here is going to swing a baseball bat at your kneecap. All right? Don't do another salute, all right? Don't sit there and make statements that are going to come back down onto the President's head. He's having a tough enough time without your stupidity becoming his stupidity. He does that well enough on his own, but the next person that does it, you can't just say, you're out of here, you're fired, and so on. You got to really make them, you got to make them suffer for it because again, shit rolls downhill and the guy is now becoming held accountable. Let me be clear. Trump is many, many things. Is he anti Semitic? No, he's. No, he's not. Does he say anti Semitic things? Yes. Right. Does that all in all matrix, he.

[Jim Acosta]

Plays footsies with, he plays footsie with all of these kinds of groups. And he likes that there are proud boys. He likes that they're Oath keepers. He likes the people on the far right. Remember when he said very fine people on both sides after Charlottesville, and everybody went bananas and tried to say that he didn't say this. He wasn't trying to call the neo Nazis fine people and all that stuff, which is horseshit. It's horse crap is right. And I, I, you know, it's a Monday. We're just going to throw these words out there. I'm sorry, we're just going to call it like it is. But I mean, to me, they have been playing this game for far too long. And, you know, they, they need to either or get off the pot when it comes to these groups. You need to disassociate yourself from these groups. You need to make sure. That the Oath Keepers and the proud boys and neo Nazi and right wing people and Nick Fuentes and all these people should not be in polite society. They should not be coming to have lunch at Mar a Lago like Dick Fuentes did. But Trump plays footsie with these people. And I think when Bannon goes up there, especially with his kind of track record going around the world trying to start far right movements in all these different countries, I think he knows what he's doing. Now he may say this was not a Nazi salute and so on, and he can, he can say that, but something has to be done from the level of the President of the United States or he's just letting it happen.

[Michael Cohen]

Yeah, you gave the right and the clearest response to this. He needs to turn around and say, you lift your hand in any other way other than to applaud like that, you're fucking outta here, plain and simple. All right? And you're never coming back. All right? But you're right, he plays foot season. But you know when I said, and I'm the son of a Holocaust survivor, so when I'm telling you that he's not an anti Semite, but he does say anti Semitic things. Donald Trump, as we all know, is anti LGBTQ plus community. Yet. Yet who was around him during the campaign and so on advocating for him? Caitlyn Jenner. Right. So in other words, it's transactional.

[Jim Acosta]

But Michael, didn't you go, didn't you go to a CPAC what was in 2011 or something like that? Because I covered it. And Trump was there. This was way back in the day.

[Michael Cohen]

2011 and also again in 2015. 20.

[Jim Acosta]

And he was, and he met with the Log Cabin Republicans. He, he met with the LGBTQ community of the, of the Republican Party. He used to be much tighter with those folks with that community than he is now. Now he wants to, you know, pedal the anti trans stuff in order to score points with his base, but he hasn't always been that way.

[Michael Cohen]

It's transactional, Jim, for God's sakes. Everybody has to understand, when you really want to understand, understand Trump, think of it as a business transaction. You want so and so. You're not going to get the far left. You're not going to get a certain group of people, okay, scratch them off the list as they have a big list in front of them. How many people do we need to vote for me, for me to win the election? And then he will go neo Nazis. Absolutely. They're not voting for Kamala Harris. They're not voting to Joe Biden, so I need to keep them in, which is going back to 2015. Why? He turned around, said, oh, yeah, what's his name? I don't know who he is, sir. He's the. He's the head of the. Of the clan. Right. And so on. David Duke. And then he turned out. Well, I. I don't even know who he is. I. I mean, the name sounds vaguely familiar, but I don't know anything about him. And there's five people on both sides. No, there's not.

[Jim Acosta]

No, there's not. No, there's not. And one of the things that. I want to talk to you about this for just a second. What was your take on Charlottesville at that time, Michael? Because it's been a while since this happened. But one of the things that you hear, the apologists for Trump and the stuff that you hear on the far right in the MAGA base is that, oh, Donald Trump wasn't saying very fine people on both sides. He wasn't saying that the white supremacists and the neo Nazis in Charlottesville were very fine people. I was there in the room with him. He was responding to a question for me when he said that. I thought that he was absolutely saying that. He tried to. He tried to clean it up a few seconds later, but he was absolutely saying that some of the people who showed up in Charlottesville were fine people. And it makes you wonder. He's obviously not talking about the counter protesters. And it's just this. It just keeps happening over and over and over again. And I just, you know, people get pissed off and they don't want, you know, they don't want you to say, oh, it was a Nazi salute when Steve Bannon did that. Oh, it wasn't a Nazi salute when Elon Musk did it.

[Michael Cohen]

But.

[Jim Acosta]

But, damn it, that's exactly what it looks like. It's not supposed.

[Michael Cohen]

Yeah, it's exactly what he said. Let me be clear about something here. Right? Again, it's all transactional. People have to stop trying to figure. It's like going into somebody's restaurant and then the owner comes out who happens to be the chef, and he asks you, hey, how was my. How was the food tonight? What are you going to tell him? It's shit, it's no good, it's terrible. Right? And what if you actually even know the guy? Right. It's even worse. Maybe you're not going to come back because it wasn't good, but you're not going to say to his face. This is the issue with Trump. It is a transaction. He was not going to. He was not going to isolate that MAGA base, which, you know, there was. There was an expression that I heard, not all of MAGA are anti Semites, but all anti Semites are maga.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah.

[Michael Cohen]

You follow the distinction.

[Jim Acosta]

Oh, exactly. Exactly.

[Michael Cohen]

That's what we got.

[Jim Acosta]

And the thing that I think the dead giveaway here when they say, and Elon Musk has said it wasn't a Nazi salute and Steve Bannon says it's a Nazi salute, so on and so on, is because they know, and so many of us know, this is not welcome in American society. Yes, you won an election, 2024. Yes, you got the popular vote. Yes, you won the Electoral College and so on. But the United States of America is never going to go along with being a fascist country. There's just too many of us here. We're just not going to do that. And we're just not going to go along with neo Nazis taking over this country. And so I just, you know, there's a part of me that just says, you know what, if you guys are so tough and Steve Bannon likes to walk around with his three shirts and his pocket protectors and everything, and he acts like he's this big, tough guy. Elon Musk likes to go around and threaten everybody and hold up a chainsaw and CPAC and so on. Okay, well, have the courage of your convictions and tell us who you really are. I think they need to tell us who they really are. And if you have the.

[Michael Cohen]

Too much.

[Jim Acosta]

I think if you have the guts. If you have the guts to say who you really are, then say it. But if they're. If they're chicken shit about it and they want to send a signal to the far right but not admit what's really going on, there's something, I think, that's just appalling and completely un American going on.

[Michael Cohen]

In fact, on my sub stack today, I actually wrote something in the past when I was doing it with Dave Aronberg, and I posted what I had written for my podcast, Mea Culpa. It's exactly this. The mega billionaires, the billionaires are playing whack a mole with our government and with our values. Elon Musk, you know, he knows that his big, tough act is only his money. Right? You know, it's like, you know, the. The old thing. Oh, yeah, you think you're tough, wait till my father's lawyer gets his hands on you. You know what I'M saying, you know, you end up, yeah, you want, you want to throw down, Wait till, wait till my dad's lawyer gets his hands on you. That's Elon Musk. He's taking his money and he's basically Jim Acosta. You say something, next thing you know there's a lawsuit pending against you. Right now you got to deal with that shit.

[Michael Fanone]

Well, yeah, that's right.

[Michael Cohen]

Going to turn around and tell you who he is. He's not going to tell you what.

[Jim Acosta]

They'Re about 100%, but you have to look at what the end goals are of their policy positions and in the way they go about in this world. Steve Bannon has gone from country to country to country trying to start these far right movements. Elon Musk, largest political donor in this last election, obviously pursuing, in history and obviously pursuing far right goals. He went and he endorsed the AfD political movement in Germany in the recent German elections. And so it just seems to me, okay, they don't want to admit what they were doing with their hands at a conference or wherever, but you have to look at what the end result is of their goals and their objectives. And it seems to be to ignite a far right revolution in much of the civilized Western world. And I think that that is a cause that Americans and democracy loving people in the Western hemisphere, they need to wake up to and understand that this might be a very, this is a critical moment in our history.

[Michael Cohen]

You know, the problem with that, this.

[Jim Acosta]

Is a critical moment, but the problem.

[Michael Cohen]

With that line, that line gets thrown out so often. Right. I know. Of the loss of democracy.

[Jim Acosta]

I know, I know. Right.

[Michael Cohen]

The saddest part is saying it today. It's actually true, but it's so watered down because it's been used over and over and over and over again and people are sick of hearing it really.

[Jim Acosta]

Well, and forgive me, and institution is.

[Michael Cohen]

Going to hold up. And then you turn around and you say, I don't know, I don't know. We are, we are now not just battling an individual. President of the United States controls the Senate, controls the House and controls the Supreme Court. When he said early on, and you and I spoke about this when we were at the, what you want the DNC convention, turn around and said, he has made it crystal clear. He has every intention, I'm talking about President Trump. He has every intention of rewriting the Constitution. He has every intention of stripping the legislative and the judiciary of their co. Equal powers granted under the Constitution. He has every, every desire to confer all power to the executive branch, naming himself. And so far that's exactly what he's doing. That's what Project 2025 is, that 922 page manifesto on how to dismantle government. So when you start hearing about this pundit or that pundit saying, well, you know, we were successful in this case in stopping it. We were successful in whacking this thing right out. And so it's only 10 or 20 out of 200. And so everything that he's doing which is violative of first Amendment, which is one way that you change a democracy into an autocracy, the second way is you have to take control over the military he is creating with the Oath Keepers, with the Proud Boys and other groups, a paramilitary group. When you start putting in all of the folks, the loyalists, this country is going to see a problem that is so huge. The only way we will ultimately keep a democracy is there's going to be a civil war. That's my prediction.

[Jim Acosta]

That's what scares me.

[Michael Cohen]

Republicans and Democrats, I hope, I hope that's not true. Or American Americans who believe in the Constitution and Americans that are looking for an autocracy, I do truly believe it. I am scared shitless of that. Yeah, I do not want to see.

[Jim Acosta]

And I, and Michael, I'm so glad that you came on this morning because, you know, and just to bring everybody into the, you know, maybe the personal struggle on my end, I've always considered myself sort of a mild mannered news guy. Yeah, I get, I have my passion and I get passionate about things at times. And, and the substack thing has kind of unlocked something that I just want to just call it out a little bit more than perhaps I used to from time to time. But this thing, this thing where people think they can go and act like Nazis in public, maybe they say, they'll say that they, they're not doing it, that's not what they're doing, and so on and so forth. And fine, they can say that and we'll report that and we'll put that out there. But the, the America that I grew up in, this country that I grew up in, we hate the, the effing Nazis. That's, that's always been the American way. And, and, and, and it just, it just upsets me that it's being, it just seems like this far right bananas bullshit is being mainstreamed in a way that is deeply disturbing. And I, and I worry about it affecting the young people in this country and, and sort of getting into their bloodstream that's that's what concerns me.

[Michael Cohen]

And it has and proof, proof be look at the case of Rittenhouse. This kid just he decides he's going to take his AR15 and he's going to go to a town that's not even where he lives to protect, to protect property and so on. Takes the life of somebody and he gets hailed as a hero. He gets invited to Mar a Lago to sit and break bread with Donald J. Trump. I mean, I'm saying to myself, what and if you think that there aren't copycats that think that that was cool, you know, he knew what he was doing and they could say whatever they want. All of a sudden, he's, he's not law enforcement. He's just another guy with a firearm. And we have so many firearms, all of a sudden, everybody's, I agree with.

[Jim Acosta]

You, but I the thing that I and Michael, I got to bring in Michael Fanone here, but Michael Cohen, always great to talk to you, but the thing that I want to be asked by the press up on Capitol Hill or at congressional town halls or wherever these lawmakers are this week, the president of the United States, Caroline Lemon, everybody needs to ask these lawmakers, these political leaders and so on for their reaction to what we saw from Steve Bannon, others at CPAC over the weekend. It's this kind of behavior, behavior in our political discourse is just totally unacceptable.

[Michael Cohen]

It starts with a salute, and then you can only imagine, think about Nazi Germany. It started with a salute, and look at where it ended up. And I'm saddened to even think that we're on that trajectory.

[Jim Acosta]

Well, Michael Cohen, great to talk to you. I appreciate it. I gave you a little took you a little longer than I thought we were going to do that today. But really appreciate the time. Michael, good to talk to you. All right. Good to see you, sir. Next Monday sounds good, Michael. Mondays, and we're gonna make it a thing.

[Michael Cohen]

There you go.

[Jim Acosta]

All right. And so anyway, I know it's a Monday, and some of us are still rubbing our eyes and drinking our second cup of coffee or maybe they're folks are heading off to the office and, and that sort of thing. Forgive me for getting so fired up this morning. I hope it's okay that I got a little fired up this morning and Michael Cohen maybe has that effect on me a little bit. I have another Michael who's going to come in here in just a second and fire me up a little bit. But the CPAC conference, it really and people might say, oh, Jim, you got triggered and all this stuff, it was really disturbing to me. And it has to be called out. And if I can use this show to call out this kind of thing, I'm going to call it out. And let's try to bring in Michael Fanone here, because Fanon is obviously one of, you know, one of the favorite people I like to have on this show. He's, he's always straightforward with all of us. And the important thing about bringing in Michael Fanone today is because of what took place at this conference over the weekend. There's Michael Fanone right there. Hey, Michael, how you doing? Good to see you, Mike.

[Michael Fanone]

I'm good, man.

[Michael Cohen]

How are you?

[Jim Acosta]

Good. Well, Michael Cohen and I were getting fired up about the CPAC conference that they had over the weekend. I want to talk to you about this principal's first conference that you were attending.

[Michael Fanone]

Jim, before you get into that, let me just do it. One thing, you should be outraged. That's, that's the appropriate response.

[Jim Acosta]

I appreciate it.

[Michael Fanone]

It seems as though so many people in the media today and so many people in this country have skipped the anger and the outrage and gone right fear. And they're allowing that fear to paralyze. You know, I'll tell you, I did an interview several weeks ago, and I won't say what network, but I was asked to comment on the fact that Stewart Rhodes was gallivanting throughout the Capitol building and who had been hosted by several members of Congress. This is a person who was convicted of seditious conspiracy but then pardoned by the president, Donald Trump. And my, my response to that was that Stuart Rhodes could go himself. And I'll tell you that the mo.

[Jim Acosta]

The, I'm okay with that.

[Michael Fanone]

The journalist or the, you know, personality that was being interviewed by was more shocked at the fact that I said on cable news than the fact that Stuart Rhodes, a seditious cons spiriter, was being invited to the United States Capitol, having lunch in the Long Worth House Office Building cafeteria and pressing the flesh with, with lawmakers. So outrage is the appropriate response. Anger is the appropriate response. We just need to channel that into action. But go ahead. Let's talk.

[Jim Acosta]

Prince yeah. So what happened at Principals First? Because, you know, I, I was monitoring what was going on there. Looked like you had some good people there on hand, folks who are kind of Republicans who became never Trumpers, and they like to get together and talk about what's going on in this country from time to time, and a lot of great people there. But then Enrique Tarria with The Proud Boys shows up, then there's a bomb threat. Can you walk us through it? What can you tell us?

[Michael Fanone]

Yeah, so Principles first is. It's a grassroots organization. It's made up of a whole host of people in politics, outside of politics, with diverse backgrounds and diverse political ideology who place democracy above party and, and fealty to, to an authoritarian dictator. That being said, you know, we had quite a few guests speakers. I, I spoke, I was on a panel with Harry Dunn, Aquilina Gunnell and, and Danny Hodges. And so while we were in the lobby of the hotel where it was being hosted, Enrique Tarrio and Ivan Ranklin and a few other members of the Proud Boys showed up and let you know they were there to try to intimidate those of us who were in attendance at the event. I mean, this is their tactic. And let me just tell you, they showed up wearing body worn cameras, flanked by numerous individuals who are holding up cell phones, videotaping the entire interaction. And I'll tell you why. It's because the Proud Boys, their tactic is to bait people into confrontations and seek some type of civil lawsuit against them. That's the tactic. And I mean, I will say this. You know, for an organization that places masculinity above all things, you know, where I'm from, the least masculine way to resolve a dispute is to sue somebody. You know, these guys are pussies. But again, you know, these are the tactics that they want to utilize and they also want to create these with.

[Jim Acosta]

Their cell phones and everything. You know, what a bunch of.

[Michael Fanone]

Yeah, they want to create viral moments so that people buy their merchandise. Enrique Torio just wants you to buy Proud Boys crap. He just wants you to buy hats.

[Jim Acosta]

He's a grifter.

[Michael Fanone]

Exactly. That's what it's all about. You know, he's created this cartoonish character of himself, you know, again, ascribing to the, you know, WWE type Persona that he has where he wears these sunglasses indoors and he walks around wearing his little Fred Perry shirt and his stupid hat. But again, that's, that's what they're all about. They're just trying to sell you crap and use people, use these confrontations to, to build up their, their fan base and their network.

[Jim Acosta]

And so he's shouting at you at the conference or trying to create this incident or scene, basically. And you weren't having it.

[Michael Fanone]

Yeah, I mean, he, he was screaming that, you know, that we were traitors, that I was a traitor to the country. I told him, you know, listen, you're the fucking traitor of this country. This is someone who is found guilty by a jury of his peers in the United States of America for seditious conspiracy. He should be serving a 22 year sentence. But he was proud he was pardoned by his ally in chief, Donald Trump. That should tell you a lot about this administration. That Donald Trump would pardon someone who is convicted of seditious conspiracy and then tell the American people that the Proud Boys may have a place in politics.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah, well, screw that. I mean, the Proud Boys have no place in politics. They have no place in American society. You know, I mean, first of all, it's just. Can we just talk about this for a second? It's a stupid name. The Proud Boys. I just think the whole thing is stupid. They seem like guys and I'll just be real honest. If they had a better dating life or social life, maybe they just need somebody to give them a hug. I don't know what it is, but they just come across to me as pathetic.

[Michael Fanone]

And, you know, they're common criminals, most of them. And they're also, you know, that mommy didn't love them enough. Yeah. You know, moms hug your kids because they might turn into proud boys.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah. Mama, don't let your babies grow up to be proud boys. We used to sing Mama, don't let your babies grow up to be cowboys. But that was, that was. As a Redskins fan, that's what you would say growing up. But. And then. So what the hell happened with this bomb threat? So you guys are at the conference on Sunday and then somebody emails in a bomb threat or something? Correct.

[Michael Fanone]

So the principals first received an email, the organization. It was a very explicit email. I think you posted it yesterday.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah.

[Michael Fanone]

And it listed a number of the speakers who were in attendance of the event, myself included, and said that we deserve to die. In fact, I even got, especially before my name, especially Michael Fanone. But also what I found most disturbing was that my 76 year old mother, who in the past has been targeted multiple times with swatting incidents for harassment, violence, that her home address was also listed and she was targeted with a bomb threat at her residence.

[Jim Acosta]

I mean, I, I can. It says here, it's. I'm looking at the email right now, says to honor the J6 hostages recently released by Emperor Trump. Again, I don't know who writes this stuff, but they just sound like they, they are in desperate need of, of some kind of treatment or help. It goes on to say, I've constructed four pipe bombs out of one times 8 inch, 1 by 8 inch threaded galvanized pipes, end caps, kitchen timers, some wires, metal clips, and homemade black power. I mean, it sounds pretty serious. It's rigged to explode. One was placed inside the JW Marriott and then goes to list some of the names at the conference. And then, yes, it goes on, it says, list some of these names. And it says, especially Michael Fanone. All deserve to die. And that spirit. The third device has been placed inside Michael Fanon's mother's mailbox. It also mentions John Bolton. I mean, this is sick stuff. And it just goes to show you, and this happened during the first Trump administration. He animates these lunatics. He animates these crazy people. You have Steve Bannon over at CPAC animating and exciting people who are not playing with a full deck. And it causes chaos and it can cause real political violence in this country.

[Michael Fanone]

It has caused real political violence.

[Jim Acosta]

It has, it has.

[Michael Fanone]

And it has continued ever since January 6th. You know, obviously not at that scale, but we have seen attacks on law enforcement. We have seen attacks on, you know, Americans, on their fellow Americans, all because they were inspired by this extremist MAGA ideology, which is nothing more than, you know, a reincarnation of fascism.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah, and that's. And that's the thing we were talking about earlier. Cohen and I were talking about this when you have Steve Bannon at cpac and he says, I wasn't doing. He says he wasn't doing a Nazi salute. He does this thing that Elon Musk had just done a few weeks before at the inauguration. Elon Mus says that wasn't a Nazi salute. And they have these proud boys and Jan. Six people running around cpac. It is. It is just un American.

[Michael Fanone]

And, you know, don't. Don't believe your lying eyes. Don't believe your lying eyes. I mean, look at the video. I mean, come on. Steve Bannon does the salute, gives a little smirk. Right before he does it. He knew exactly what the fuck he was doing. Steve Bannon has fetishized fascism for all of his adult political life. I mean, he's a sick, sick person. The people that espouse this ideology are sick individuals. And America has a choice to make. Recognizing now, I mean, I hope that this extremism that we're experiencing in the first month, it's only been a month of the Trump administration starts to wake people up as to what they did and gets them on the path, and we've started to see it in some of these town halls. Gets them on the right path to, you know, suppressing this fascist ideology that's infected our culture and our politics.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah, well, and, and I mean, you're seeing some of these intimidation tactics going on inside the dosh efforts that they're sending these emails out to federal employees saying, you have 48 hours to send us a list of the five things that you did in the last week or you're going to lose your job. And then you have people at some of these federal agencies saying, no, screw that, we're not doing that. And then emailing their employees and saying, we're not going to do that. But Trump was saying over the weekend he wants must to be even more aggressive in this stuff. And so at every turn, Donald Trump, he wants to amp it up. He wants to light a fire under some of these far right efforts to change America as we know it. And you know, he's not, and I was talking about this with Cohen earlier, he's not out there saying, listen, if I see one more of these damn salutes at one of these political events, you're never coming anywhere near the White House ever again. That's what a real president would do. A real president would go out there and say, if you ever do one of these salutes again, you don't get anywhere near the White House grounds, anywhere that I'm in the room at Mar A Language or whatever, you're not welcome. But he's not going to do that. He's not going to do that. But the White House should be asked about it and he should be asked about it. And these political leaders should be asked about it.

[Michael Fanone]

Yes. I mean, unfortunately, I don't know if you can apply as a substack TV host for your White House credential back. But, you know, some of these, some of these reporters or journalists that are sitting there in the press corps need to grow a pair of balls and start asking these tough questions and not accept these non answers.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah.

[Michael Fanone]

You know, these are real Americans whose lives are being threatened, whose lives are being destroyed by this, you know, by these extremist groups that Donald Trump himself pardoned and set free and set loose on the American people. And he knew exactly what he was doing. This was all intentional. You know, he's galvanized these people, he's emboldened them. They now feel that they are immune from any type of criminal prosecution as long as they commit crimes on Donald Trump's behalf.

[Jim Acosta]

And he's putting people like Cash Patel and Dan Bongino at the FBI. I mean, he's not trying to say, well, I went a little too far with this pick. So let me put somebody in there who's more of a pro at the FBI. But no, he puts Dan Bongino in there. He's doubling down and tripling down and whatever else down on this far right craziness. I mean, that's what he's doing. And he's letting Steve Bannon go out there at CPAC and these other people go out there at CPAC and just say crazy things. And so I agree with you with what you were saying earlier, what we're seeing at these town halls where you're seeing from some Democrats. There was a New York Times article about Chris Murphy over the weekend about how Democrats are responding to what he's been saying because he's been calling this out and there's been this sort of finger in the wind weathervane approach to Trump that we've seen from some corners of the Democratic Party because they just don't know what to do politically speaking with what he's been able to accomplish. And, and yet it just seems like the solution is right in front of your nose. When you're seeing what's taking place with Doge, when you're seeing what's happening at cpac, when you see what's happening at the principals first summit, death threats, bomb threats, having to clear out an entire political conference because people from a different point of view are speaking their mind.

[Michael Fanone]

Absolutely. And you know, it's, it's, it's scary times that we're living in. But the other thing, when you talk about Democrats, this cannot be a political movement. We cannot rely on a political party to save us from MAGA and from Donald Trump. This has to be an American movement. This has to be a movement about decency. It has to be a movement about compassion. It has to be a movement about respect for democracy and love of country.

[Jim Acosta]

You're right. Absolutely. There's no question.

[Michael Fanone]

Yes.

[Jim Acosta]

It has to come from the people.

[Michael Fanone]

Yes, absolutely. It's our responsibility. It's each and every American's responsibility to right this wrong.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah. And it's not enough to say, well, you know, he, he did eke out this victory and so we're just going to go lick our wounds for six months or nine months or a year or whatever, and then maybe we'll come up with a response by then and from the focus groups and the pollsters and everything. It's going to be too late at that point, folks. Yeah, I mean, they, I, I can't.

[Michael Fanone]

Find harsh enough words for, for people that say things like that, oh, we need to wait two years for the midterm elections, and Trump is going to, you know, he's going to seal his own fate with all this insanity. I don't want to wait two years. This needs to begin now. This needs to begin today. I don't want to wait two years to see what else, you know, Donald Trump could possibly have in store for people like me, my family and people like you, Jim.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah, well, we're going to keep calling it out. We came out, we came in hot today on a Monday with the Michaels here, Michael Fanon and Michael Cohen. But Mike, always great to see you. Really appreciate it. I know you and I could talk all morning, but I'll let you go about your day, but thanks a lot. Good to see you.

[Michael Fanone]

Thanks, buddy.

[Jim Acosta]

All right, take care. And, you know, I think the reason why I liked having both of the Michaels on this morning is maybe, you know, my inclination on a Monday is, you know, take it easy, Jim. You know, let's not come across too harsh on a Monday. Let's not come in too hot on a Monday. But I don't know. I mean, when you have the events that we had over the weekend take place, what are you supposed to do? What are you supposed to do when you saw Steve Bannon and these knuckleheads at CPAC doing the things that they're doing? It's unnerving. It's unsettling. I mean, every, anybody with a phone who has somebody who cares about this country had that video sent to them over the weekend where they saw Steve Bannon acting that way. Shame on you, Steve Bannon. Shame on you. And you don't need to just go and talk to a couple of reporters afterwards and say, no, I didn't do Steve Bannon really should go out and have a press conference or give a speech or say something, put out a statement or something and deny all of this emphatically. But to go out there and behave in that fashion, it's shameful. It is shameful. And so forgive me for coming in hot on a Monday like this. But the other thing, when you, when you have doge sending out emails to people saying, well, if you can just come up with five things, it almost suggests that, oh, you can't come up with five things. I mean, that's what they're really saying with those. You can't come up with five things. You're telling me that people who work at the National Institutes of Health who are working on things like a cure for Cancer, trying to fight infectious diseases like bird flu. I mean, people at the faa, air traffic controllers got this, people who work at the FBI, people who work in the Secret Service protecting the president, got these emails. You don't think they can come up with five things that they did? Of course they can come up with five things. Of course it's insulting. These are intimidation tactics. The last thing I want to mention is Ukraine leaders from across this. According to the Washington Post, leaders from across Europe and Canada assembled in Kiev on Monday to mark the third anniversary of Russia's full scale invasion amid growing uncertainty over the United States continued support for Ukraine. It's important that we remember that Ukraine did not invade Ukraine, that Russia invaded Ukraine, that Ukraine is not responsible for the war in Ukraine. Russia is responsible for, for the war in Ukraine. The thousands of people who have died in Ukraine, the children who have been slaughtered in Ukraine, some of them forcibly removed from their country. Have we forgotten about that shameful episode of this war in Ukraine? Peter Baker of the New York Times had a great article over the weekend. I, I, I want to call your attention to it. He was going through all of the, not all of them because you can't do it, but some of the main lies that Trump has told since coming into office. And it's just lie after lie after lie. And one of them is about Ukraine. And I see somebody commenting right now, don't apologize for anything, Jim. It's just my mom, my mom would get mad at me if I did not hold the door open for her growing up. I mean, that's how I was raised. And so there's a part of me that, you know, I, I sometimes have a little too much of the Virginia gentleman in me. So excuse me, I do the best that I can. But Peter Baker's story in the New York Times over the weekend, I call your attention to it because it runs through some of these things. And for those of us who are having conversations with friends and relatives and neighbors, keep that article handy, you know, and for the ones who are saying, oh, you know, it's not so bad what's been happening so far in the last month and so on, just go down through that list and read, read these different lies that Trump has been telling since coming into office. I mean, that's, that's, that's, and, and I think I could be wrong and somebody can chime in on the chat if I'm wrong. I think the worst of the lies, of all of the lies was the one he told about Ukraine and one of the things I thought was most hopeful, I guess the most cause for optimism is the way that lie was just soundly rejected by so many people across the political spectrum. That was, I thought that was an important moment. I thought that was an important moment. I, I do think that, and I think Michael Fanon is right about this. You can't wait six months, nine months, a year, whatever it is, till the next midterms. I think what we're starting to see at some of these events that are cropping up across the country, where people are starting to show up and starting to care again. They were exhausted, they didn't want to be engaged after the election and so on, they're starting to care again. They're starting to get loud again. One of those things that I think we have to care about is Ukraine. I have spoken with so many people since that war began who have been touched by it, and I, I, I, I always think about the two pilots that I interviewed with the Ukrainian Air Force. I did this interview a couple years ago. Both of them have since died in this war. There's a woman with Special Forces in Ukraine who I interviewed. Maybe I'll post some of these on substack later. She, I interviewed her. She was nearly killed when an IED hit one of her vehicles. The amount of sacrifice, the courage, the bravery that has been demonstrated in Ukraine, please do not cheapen what those people have accomplished, the battles that they've fought, everything that they've done to defend their country, please don't cheapen that by, by uttering some lie that, that they're somehow responsible for the war in Ukraine. And because of the way MAGA is now, you have respected people in the party and, and maybe respected is too strong of a word, but people whose, whose words used to matter, sort of adopting Trump's point of view and line of thought on all of that, it's just, it's depressing. Again, I keep going back to the word shameful. It's shameful to see that going on. But I think it's important on this anniversary of the Russian invasion of Ukraine that we not only hold on to truth, as I've said in the past, but hold on to hope that maybe even without the full support of the United States, that the Ukrainians can hold on. I'll leave you with that thought. Thanks, everybody, for joining the Jim Acosta show on this Monday. I might not be here every day this week, so hopefully this, this will be enough for you. But my thanks to Michael Cohen, my thanks to Michael Fanone. They both came in hot today. Maybe we'll just Won't worry. I won't apologize anymore for that. I'll just come in hot. We need to do that. We need a little bit more folks coming in hot these days. Somebody just asked. No afternoon. No, no afternoon. This was a morning bonus edition of it. And I see maybe I'm breaking up a little bit as I'm trying to say goodbye to here. So hopefully that it's okay, you're hearing it okay. And seeing it okay on your end. But thanks a lot, everybody, for watching on this Monday. Really appreciate it. A coming in hot kind of Monday. Good to see you. Until next time reporting. Still reporting. I'm Jim Acosta. Take.