← The Jim Acosta Show
The Jim Acosta Show
Minnesota Attorney General Keith Ellison Calls on Sen. Mike Lee to Apologize and Don Lemon on Trump's birthday "flop."
00:55:11
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- [00:00]
Jim Acosta
Well, we have just started right up here. Welcome to the Jim Acosta show on this Tuesday. Really glad to have the Minnesota Attorney General Keith Ellison on the program. Good to see you again, sir. It's been a while. And as you know, the political assassination that happened in Minnesota over the weekend, I mean, it's still raising all sorts of questions all over the country. In particular, compounding that tragedy is the disinformation that's swirling around the case. And just to remind people what happened, the Democratic state senator John Hoffman and his wife Yvette, they were wounded in a shooting near the home of former Democratic House Speaker Melissa Hortman, who was shot and killed along with her husband Mark. I suppose you probably know all of them very well. Fairly well to all tell us about.
- [00:45]
Keith Ellison
I know them well. If you, if you just allow me a second, Jim, please. I met Melissa Hortman before she was in the legislature and before I was in the state legislature. And we were both lawyers. I had a client, I was a director of something called the Legal Rights Center. She was with Legal Aid, which is sort of a civil oriented legal organization. And she had a client who was the victim of racial discrimination, all kinds of bad stuff, sex harassment. In fact, this landlord was a guy who said, girls don't have to pay rent. Kind of interesting.
- [01:26]
Jim Acosta
Okay.
- [01:27]
Keith Ellison
And she got, and she sued and she got a $400,000 verdict against that villain. And, you know, so that's how she and I met, you know, then we both went to the legislature. I went one term before she did. We got, we, we. We were friends. We got to be better friends. And she was just a person who was rare in that something. You know, you get a lot of people in politics who know how to, you know, passionately advocate for their position. And you also have people who know how to negotiate with the other side. She actually could do both. Yeah. She was the speaker for a reason. She was a speaker because she could. Heard them cats, you know. You know politics, Jim.
- [02:09]
Jim Acosta
Yeah.
- [02:09]
Keith Ellison
You know, it's not easy getting all those folks together.
- [02:12]
Jim Acosta
So she wasn't a real partisan type is what you're saying?
- [02:15]
Keith Ellison
Yeah, yeah. She, she. So, so, yeah, she would bridge the partisan divide without ever giving up her sincerely held beliefs. She was in favor of a woman's rights to choose. She believed that all children had to have a meal if they were in school. You learn best on a full stomach. She believed in paid family medical leave for parents. She cared about that stuff. She was a, she was a Democrat, man. But that didn't make her an enemy of a Republican.
- [02:49]
Jim Acosta
Right, Interesting.
- [02:51]
Keith Ellison
She stood on her ground and she said, okay, let's talk. We got a budget to pass, let's do it. And she got her budget passed and last session she was 67. 67. She told the, the other leader, a woman named Lisa Dangmouth, you can be the speaker, I'll be the speaker emerita. And we are going to deal and negotiate. And they really did lead that caucus together and they came up with a budget and a lot of people didn't give them very good odds to come up with a budget, but they got came up with it because they both had an eye toward working together. And that is to Melissa's great credit. And I just want to mention John Hoffman, thank God this guy is a passionate advocate for people with mental health problems, mental illness. He has, you know, when people have been deemed to be mentally incompetent and they should, you know, the state law says they should receive treatment right away, not just sit in jail. And John has really pounded the table and said these people gotta get direct care and treatment. You just can't let somebody with schizophrenia sit in the jail. The jail folks don't know how to deal with it. They're not trained to deal with it and the person needs treatment. And so he's really been a great advocate for that and many other things. So these are two great people and this is a great tragedy and there's no two ways about it.
- [04:14]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, no, there's no question about it, Mr. Attorney General. And the other thing is, is that this could have been far, far worse. If you look at the, according to what we know about the list, this guy had just unreal.
- [04:25]
Keith Ellison
Yeah, cops did a good job. I mean, when they got the 911 call at John Hoffman's house, they were very heads up and said, you know what, this could be political. And they went to the other leaders in the vicinity and that's when they actually encountered the shooter who's now the defendant in this case. And so sadly, they didn't get there in time enough to save Melissa and Mark Hortman, but they were able to stop it right there.
- [04:56]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, and gather cripple.
- [04:59]
Keith Ellison
Thank goodness.
- [05:01]
Jim Acosta
And the other thing is the state of Minnesota has had to combat some of the disinformation swirling around the case. I saw the Minnesota Star Tribune newspaper ran this headline, fact check. Did suspect in the shootings have close ties to Governor Tim Wall's question mark? And the answer to that is of course no. But I mean, this is just really making this tragedy so much worse.
- [05:24]
Keith Ellison
You're right. I mean, I wish that they would just stop and try to reflect on the fact that these are human beings with children, with families who gave it all they had to the people of our state. And so just to spin the lie machine is deeply, deeply insensitive. And I just think it goes to show that we all need to step back and chill out, you know? And look, we get into politics because we believe in what we believe in. I'm not a pro life advocate. I'm a pro choice person. But that doesn't need to make me an enemy of the person. That means we have a policy difference that we should discuss, debate, and then there's an election, and then the law prevails. But this idea that we're somehow enemies because we have different points of view, we have got to confront that and quite seriously right away.
- [06:21]
Jim Acosta
And how do you combat the problem with, I mean, disinformation in a situation like this? I saw Senator Mike Lee of Utah. This is according to the Hill. He's deleted social media posts that he made blaming the left for this assassination. And as you probably saw, he put out one tweet over the weekend that said, nightmare on Wall street, another tweet that said, this is what happens when Marxists don't get their way. And of course, he ended up. I mean, this is not. This is completely the opposite of what occurred. Obviously, the guy was a Trump supporter who was targeting Democrats. According to the federal authorities, all Democrats were on that list. But, I mean, how do you deal with a situation like this?
- [06:59]
Keith Ellison
Yeah, and let me just say, Jim, I'll never forget, when I was in Congress, some guy showed up at the baseball practice of the Republicans and shot Steve Scalise and others. Every Democrat was like, our hearts are with you, man. We're with you. We're praying for you. We're pulling for you. And that's because we recognize each other's humanity. Mike Lee has sort of backtracked and he took it down. But I actually call upon the senator to actually apologize. I don't think it will diminish him in the eyes of anyone. It might be the thing that we need in this very moment to make a heartfelt apology and say, you know, I just. I just really let my, you know, partisan impulses run ahead of my common sense. That kind of gesture might actually do a lot of good. Now, it takes a big person to do something like that, and I don't know if he's up to it, but that's what's needed for him to make a. To make a blunder and insensitive comment like that. I'm all for forgiving him, but I want to see him demonstrate some real contrition, because I think this is an example of him just going too far, calling us Marxists and stuff like that. Look, I know people who say they're Marxists. Fine. In America, you get to be a Marxist if you want to be one, sure. But we're not Marxists. So what are you talking about? We're Democrats. We believe in markets and a public sector together. That's clear. Our philosophy is clear. And yet you want to call this name because you think it's a red meat for your base? Honestly, I think that Senator Lee needs to make an apology, and I think that it would show a real character if he did. People screw up. But the real question now is, does he have the guts to say I was wrong?
- [08:55]
Jim Acosta
No, I think that's a big part of this. And I remember covering you when you were in Congress. But it seems to me, Mr. Turnjell, that Congress has changed, that Washington has changed since you left Washington. Yeah, it's gotten meaner. It's gotten nastier. What happened?
- [09:11]
Keith Ellison
You know what? Look, and again, I am not trying to get partisan, because I'm not saying that I'm not partisan. I actually do have a set of values that I believe in. Make no apologies for that, but I will say that I believe that. So after 9, 11, President Bush says, we're not at war with Islam. We're at war with some wicked killers who attacked our country, all of us, including Muslim Americans. And he went to a mosque and he said, look, these don't. I don't want to see any hate crimes. That's leadership right there. Now, look, how many things do I agree with that George Bush did? Not that many. Quite frankly, I agree with Pepfar, but there's a lot of things I didn't agree with. But he was a person who had basic human compassion. President Trump won't even call Tim Walls.
- [10:08]
Jim Acosta
I was gonna ask you about that.
- [10:09]
Keith Ellison
Yeah, he won't even call him. I mean, I'm like, what kind of example are you setting? And I'm like, he doesn't seem to understand that Don is not calling Tim. The President of the United States is calling the governor of the. The state of Minnesota. Meaning, on behalf of the people who I represent, the whole United States, please accept our condolences for this horrible tragedy. Mr. Governor. That's what leaders do. What this guy is doing. I don't know what he's doing. The thing that is different between now and when I was in Congress is that, yes, tragedies have always happened in politics in America and everywhere in the world, but at least we had some leaders who at least would say, this is wrong, this is right, and I'm going to be a decent human being. I'll never forget Obama standing up and singing, you know, Amazing Grace.
- [10:58]
Jim Acosta
Amazing Grace, yeah.
- [10:59]
Keith Ellison
Those people lost their family members in the horrible tragedy. I can't imagine Trump saying or doing anything like that. And you know, and it's, I just don't, I just don't relate to the guy on that level where he doesn't feel human compassion in the face of human suffering. That, that I will never quite understand. But I just hope that he changes. But I, I think if passes any indication of the future, I'm not holding out much hope for it.
- [11:27]
Jim Acosta
Well, and the other, the, the other part of this, the other part of the equation is disinformation is such. It's a nightmare right now in this country. And I wonder how it affects your work as the Attorney General of Minnesota, because in this particular case, we have seen prominent MAGA figures, including the president's own son, Donald Trump Jr. Who said that the suspect seems to be a leftist. This is what he said, and a Democrat. That was all, that's all false. Not true. But this stuff gets into the media, the social media ecosystem, the right wing media ecosystem, and it just spreads like wildfire. And if you're a public figure, how do you deal with this? I mean, this is, it's just out of control all over the country right now.
- [12:08]
Keith Ellison
Well, I tell you, I think that, you know, the, We've got to get. We had a law that said that deep fakes were illegal and now we got people who actually helped pass the law and voted for it suing us to say it's unconstitutional because they have a right to, I don't know, lie. I mean, it is truly a problem. And honestly, Jim, I think that programs like yours and others where you come on and you say, wait a minute, that's not true, that we need much more of that. You know what I mean? We need, and we used to have a common news. I mean, when Cronkite and all those guys were on, we all watched, you know, three channels, right? Abc, NBC. Yes. But now there's a massive proliferation and you get it, you get to have your own version of reality. But what about human, basic human decency? I think we all, we can call each other back to that. We, we can call each other back to that. And we ought to, we ought to say to the President, Mr. President, you're wrong for not calling the governor. You should call the governor. You don't even, I'll tell you this, Pam Bondi called me and said, man, I'm sorry about, this is horrible.
- [13:18]
Jim Acosta
Really. She did okay.
- [13:19]
Keith Ellison
I'll give her credit for it. I mean, you know, she and I disagree on nearly everything, but at least she didn't forget her humanity like that. I don't expect her to change any position that she, she has, but at least she got that part of it. And so that is really a real challenge of our age. We need to use legislative tools. I mean, we still gotta use defamation lawsuits. I mean, look, Mike Liddell, I guess a jury in Colorado just came down today saying that he defamed the people at Dominium, the voting machine. So hopefully he'll get himself together and stop making up stories. I mean, Fox News, they had to settle a case for $789 million.
- [14:01]
Jim Acosta
Right.
- [14:02]
Keith Ellison
You know, they, they've toned down a little bit, but they're still kind of bad, you know, with, with the, with the, with the making up stuff. And so we've got to use our laws that protect people's reputational interests. I mean, and we know, we know Alex Jones has got a big judgment against him. And so these liars, here's the thing, all these liars, all these liars, they have an allyship of liars. They have all been sued for large amounts of money. And the public has got to get on to the fact that these people really are not telling you the truth and they're trying to use you and manipulate you.
- [14:40]
Jim Acosta
Yeah. I mean, if the disinformation gets that bad surrounding this case, I mean, could you take legal action of some sort? I suppose it depends on the situation. But as the Attorney General, that would be in your wheelhouse, I guess.
- [14:50]
Keith Ellison
Yeah, it would depend on what it was. I mean, if there was, if there was, it sort of would depend. But let me tell you, I got people watching this and one of the reasons I've appeared on the news quite a lot about after this is because I want to try to get the real story out. I think that our U.S. attorney, our local U.S. attorney told kind of the narrative as to what the state, the government thinks it can show that I think was helpful. And you know, but it's a battle. And, but I'll just say this man, over the course of American history. You know, there was a guy named Preston Brooks who beat a US Senator with a cane. And when he broke the cane, people mailed him canes because this pro slavery representative beat this anti slavery senator, you know, and so we now. So when we can't get up here and say that this is new, ugly, violent behavior has been a part of American politics for a long time. You know, several presidents have been assassinated in the 60s. You had JFK, RFK, MLK, you know, you had Medgar Evers, Malcolm X. So we've been through tough times, folks, but we at least have to expect that our leaders are going to try to call us to higher ground. And people like yourself are doing a good job at that.
- [16:09]
Jim Acosta
No, I appreciate that. That's what is so troubling and disappointing and maddening, quite frankly, about Donald Trump not even wanting to call the governor of Minnesota. Donald Trump was the subject of an assassination attempt, almost two assassination attempts. I mean, there was a second plot that was foiled by the police, stopped by the police. So one would think he would have sympathy in this area and just automatically pick up the phone and say, you know, hey, I been there. I know. Yeah, but he doesn't do it. Even in this case. Even in this kind of case.
- [16:44]
Keith Ellison
And, you know, it just. It sort of boggles the mind, you know, it really does. And so here's the thing. Look, 25,000 people showed up in Minnesota on Saturday in the face of an unspeakable tragedy because they wanted to be together, because they want to lift up the best ideals of our nation, because they believe due process, freedom of the press are important. They believe that we should have a multiracial democracy, that it's okay to be a trans person or an immigrant, and that we should not villainize people because of this. And so I'm confident that America is gonna rise to the occasion. I just don't think that this president's gonna rise to the occasion. If he does, let me tell you, I'd be the first one to be surprised. And I'll come on your show and say that. I'm sorry, but I think I'm safe in saying that Trump has already shown us who he is, so we should believe him.
- [17:36]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, I know. I think you're right. And I guess, just finally, how does Minnesota get through this? I mean, I see together the governor's shown a lot of leadership.
- [17:46]
Keith Ellison
Yeah, we hold hands and we just tell each other that we appreciate each other, that we remember each other. I can tell you that local Republicans have not Been insensitive. I mean, there's a few who have made public statements. And I mean, I was proud of the speaker, Republican Speaker Lisa Daymoth, who's made very kind comments about Melissa Hortman and others have done the same. And so I think that at least locally, we're hanging together and we're going to continue to do that. Remembering that, sadly, communities go through hard times. I'll never forget my friends in Connecticut when they had 27 children shot down, or, you know, when my good friend Gabby Giffords was shot down in Arizona. I mean, these tragedies happen. We do all we can to prevent them. But how do we make it through? We hold hands, we hug each other, and we keep on marching. And we're not going to quit. We're going to keep it up.
- [18:53]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, well, the whole country could use some of that. Minnesota, nice. That's for sure. You know.
- [19:00]
Keith Ellison
It'S what's been keeping us afloat, man.
- [19:02]
Jim Acosta
Yeah.
- [19:03]
Keith Ellison
I mean, people joke about Minnesota and Minnesota, nice. But that, that spirit of, of like, of like, civility, which, which really is a true thing that we do around here is helping us get through a tough moment.
- [19:17]
Jim Acosta
That's excellent. I, I'm glad to hear it. And, you know, I've got a whole lot of viewers right now who are sending their hearts out to you and everybody else in the state government there. I'm very sorry about what, what's happened, but wanted to reach out to you and really glad you came on. Thank you, Mr. Attorney General. Really appreciate it.
- [19:33]
Keith Ellison
Thank you, Jim. And glad to see you're on the sub stack. It's a great show you got there.
- [19:37]
Jim Acosta
All right, appreciate it. We'll do it again soon. Thanks again, sir. All right. That's the Attorney General for the great state of Minnesota, Keith Ellison. And it is true, you know, Minnesotans are nice people. And I've. I mean, I've been to Minnesota so many times. I don't even know how many times it's been. I know that it's tough in the winter. There's no question about it. You got to be careful going there in the wintertime. It's very cold. But whenever you go, you just run into just the most wonderful people there. And that is what makes me just so terribly sorry about what has taken place there, because it is a true tragedy. And it's been, as I was saying at the top of the program, compounded by the swirling disinformation, the heartlessness of a lot of people who were just popping off when they shouldn't be like Senator Mike Lee, just bringing shame to not only himself, but to his office. And I think what the attorney general said there is absolutely right. The senator from Utah, Mike Lee, needs to apologize. Needs to apologize and say that he made a mistake, that he is sorry. And there's no question about it. I'm trying to bring in Don Lemon now, the great Don Lemon. If folks were watching over the weekend, Don and I were doing some live coverage along with Joy Reid of the no Kings protests that were taking place all over the country over the weekend. Don was in New York. I was down on. Down in D.C. near the White House. And, you know, Don and I had lots of conversation. We did for three hours on Saturday, and it was the first. I mean, Don and I have done some. Some live segments together here and there. But to be on with Don for three hours on Saturday, that was a lot of fun. That was just, it was great catching up with him. And it was, it was incredible working with Joy Reed for the first time. She's. I mean, Don and Joy are both at the top of their game when it comes to broadcasting, but it was a lot of fun being with Joy as well. Don, I think he's beaming in now. The substack machine is spinning furiously as we bring in Don Lemon. One of the things I did want to point out, Axios, was reporting earlier this morning that something called the Transformative Justice Coalition has announced that protests are going to be held on July 17th in honor of John Lewis, the civil rights activist and lawmaker who died on that day back in 2020. Hang on a second. Don did not come through. Let me try this one more time. Sometimes it, you know, if at first you don't succeed, try, try again. But apparently there are going to be some protests coming up on July 17th in honor of John Lewis. That's going to be very interesting. And according to the folks over at Indivisible, Ezra Levin and those folks over there, there were 20, 100 events across the country on Saturday, and they're estimating that some 5 million people took part in those no Kings protests. Don, we're trying to reach you now. I don't know what's going on here. Don, this is Jim Acosta. Can you hear me? I don't see Don there. Hang on. Don't. This is a. Was this El. Is this Elon Musk trying to sabotage things again? What's happening here? Take a quick sip here. Hang on just a second. Don, are you there? I don't hear you. If you can hear Me. Hang on just one second, because you are not coming through. And I want to make sure we get the great, the wonderful Don Lemon in here. What's fun about substack? It kind of reminds me of my days back in college radio. And, my God, I hope nobody ever finds the tapes of me on college radio at my alma mater, James Madison University. But there were times where I had to, like, control, do the switches and the knobs and the buttons while I was DJing back then. Substack kind of feels like that at times because I have to run the substack machine here. Let's see here. Don is trying to. My producer Matt is saying. I texted him and I'm not hearing from. Don is trying to come in. I think he is accepting the live request. But Don, if you can hear me, put it on just your cell service instead of trying to use your WI fi. That might be it. I don't know. Don might be in a secure, undisclosed location. He's trying to come in here. There's Don again. There's his face. He's trying to come in now. I. You know, it might be one of those things. He's making lemonade. Somebody says it, you know, turning Don Lemon into lemonade. I don't know about that. I will just take Don Lemon if. If we can possibly get him. Get him in here. The other thing that we have talked about is the Associated Press reporting. Trump is saying that the US Knows where Iran's supreme leader, the Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, is hiding during the Israel, Iran conflict, but doesn't want him killed for now. This is Trump in a social post earlier today. He wants Iran's unconditional surrender as this conflict is going back and forth between Israel and Iran. I don't know what's happening here with Don, but sometimes we just can't make the bells and whistles work. Let's see. Trump was also saying earlier today. I mean, this. What Trump's comments. It's not letting me in, Jim. Huh? Oh, boy. Don just chimed in and said, it's not letting me in. Don Lemon is stuck. He's accepted the invite three times. Three times. Hey, there it is.
- [25:36]
Don Lemon
Look, I've tried. I've got. Look how many phones I have. Trying to get you.
- [25:39]
Jim Acosta
Oh, my God. I knew it was not for a lack of trying. I absolutely knew that.
- [25:45]
Don Lemon
For some reason, the substack glitches like that sometimes. You're not the first person this has happened to me with. It happened to me. I was trying to get on with Tara Palmeri. And we had a time, and it's just the site that's glitching. We need to talk to them about it because no one should be keeping Don Lemon and Jim Acosta apart.
- [26:04]
Jim Acosta
That's right. Somebody needs to run out to Best Buy or Radio Shack, get some nine volts, plug them in. I'm good. I'm good. I was just gonna say I had so much fun working with you on Saturday covering the no Kings protest. And I was saying earlier, it's fun when we do these little live chats and stuff like that, but we were on for three hours. It was fantastic, and it was really inspiring to watch. I don't know. What were your final thoughts on that?
- [26:30]
Keith Ellison
My thoughts?
- [26:31]
Don Lemon
You know, I told you it was indeed an honor to work with you and Joy. I mean, look, I've worked with you for years. We've always been. It's a mutual admiration society. Not only do we think alike and we operate similarly. And I don't really. I don't like to. I don't like to do false equivalents and all those things, but let me just tell you this. As I said, it was an honor to work with you guys. And when I called you afterwards and I said, jim, do you realize what we did?
- [26:59]
Jim Acosta
I know.
- [27:00]
Don Lemon
If I can just pat us ourselves on the back.
- [27:04]
Jim Acosta
Let's do it.
- [27:05]
Don Lemon
You were out there working. Think about the technology and the types of things that we're used to working with, right? Somebody putting on our IFB for us and micing us up, and we don't have to worry about the signal. And everybody's got. Everything is working. We just stand in there, step in there.
- [27:19]
Jim Acosta
Bingo.
- [27:20]
Don Lemon
We did network quality. A network quality broadcast with just my team. My team was producing it, and just my. My little team. And so we go live twice a day. So we know how to do this live thing and to do it on YouTube and on Substack together. But to work with three people who were in, you know, legacy media for the longest of time and who left, I believe, with their dignity intact. And I was just for it. I was just sitting there most of the show just kind of watching and then producing from my phone saying. And then I'm texting like, tell Jim, hop in, get in. He's a co anchor. Get in there, get in there.
- [27:59]
Jim Acosta
And you're telling Jolly, make sure the phone is vertical or horizontal. Yeah, yeah, that's John. John, you would not have gotten to where you are if you did not hustle and work your butt Off. And that's why you are Don Lemon. I mean, you worked your butt off. I mean, and so did Joy, and I did. And it shows. And I think you and I had this conversation. There's some people who could not do what we did on Saturday. I'm not trying to say that in a negative way. I'm just saying that you and I have done this for a long time. We understand how this works.
- [28:30]
Don Lemon
Well, I grew up hustling my way through local news. I hustle my way as a production assistant on up the Chain. I did everything in the newsroom, even a satellite speed coordinator. I was a producer. I was a field produce, was an assignment editor. And so I had to hustle. And so, you know, that hustle never left me. You're never, ever going to outwork me. And so, you know, when. You know, when all the trappings as it's going away for everyone, all of that goes away, you know, that comes back to you. Right?
- [28:58]
Keith Ellison
I'm a hustler.
- [28:59]
Don Lemon
I'm scrappy. You know, I get in there. Yeah. And I get in there. I get the interviews. Like, if you're in the field with me, I'm going to get the interview.
- [29:08]
Jim Acosta
I know. I did not like it when if I was at a different network and Don Lemon showed up, I was like, oh, shit. You know, that was definitely a feeling on my part. But the larger point, though, is the power of independent media in what this is becoming.
- [29:25]
Don Lemon
Right.
- [29:26]
Jim Acosta
And that's, I think, also what enhanced what took place on Saturday. A lot of the no Kings protests were fueled by independent media. You know, I mean, I would do a show and I'd talk about this stuff, and people would exchange, you know, phone numbers, and I'm going to be at this no Kings event. And that no Kings event. It's kind of an amazing thing to see, like, blossoming in real time.
- [29:46]
Don Lemon
Yeah. Well, I think that we're at the. I don't know if we're at the beginning of digital media. Obviously, we are not. But as far as independent media, I think we're pretty much at the. We're at a point where I think the tipping point is happening, if you know what I mean? And if I were at any one of those networks and I was watching what we were doing on Saturday, I'd be like, oh, shit.
- [30:07]
Jim Acosta
Exactly. We're coming for you.
- [30:10]
Don Lemon
We're coming for you. And we are. And so, yeah, I just think it's really important. And I always. I'm shameless, I'll tell you. Support independent Media. Support what Jim is doing. Support what I'm doing. Support what Joy's doing.
- [30:20]
Jim Acosta
Exactly.
- [30:21]
Don Lemon
Because we don't have the corporate influence. We don't have people telling us, as we have heard through sources at, you know, some of our. Some of. Let's just say some of the networks, like, don't be too critical. Tone it down.
- [30:34]
Jim Acosta
Careful.
- [30:35]
Don Lemon
Be careful about what you say. You know, he let the other side, you know, let the MAGA folks speak and give them some oxygen. And it's like, are you fucking kidding me? We did not have to pretend that this was normal. We did not have to sit on a panel and go, well, what do you think about the president's speech? And hold on. Hold on a second. This is. This was his birthday party.
- [30:57]
Jim Acosta
It's good that you brought this up, Don, because you were talking about how the whole military dictator parade thing, the Kim Jong Un thing, was a giant flop for Trump. It was a giant flop. And there were some media outlets who were reporting it accurately, and then there were some who were pretending like this was still, like this big deal for him, and it was just a complete flop.
- [31:18]
Don Lemon
It was a flop. And you could see it in the crowds. Look, you were pretty close to it. But all you have to do is go back and look at the video and look at the crowds in the stands. Look at the soldiers. Many of the active duty and the veteran soldiers there said that the way that these folks were marching, the men and women in uniform were marching. It was a silent Protestant, because they weren't marching like, as if they were North Korea in the military there they were, and they said, you have to be. It's really hard not to march in step when you're in the military because you're trained so hard for it. And they weren't. Doing Was embarrassing. There's no other way to put. Even Donald Trump looked bored.
- [31:59]
Jim Acosta
And I called him Snuzzolini. You know, I mean, he was. Yeah, he couldn't stay awake. He. Yeah, but you could.
- [32:05]
Don Lemon
Could you have reported that? I could not have. I could not have said that without someone calling down, going, watch your tone. You're like, oh, my God, really? Are you kidding me?
- [32:15]
Jim Acosta
Why can't we make jokes? I mean, give me a break. I. It's a proud tradition of what we do a couple of dad jokes here.
- [32:22]
Don Lemon
This is him.
- [32:23]
Jim Acosta
Look, I know.
- [32:27]
Don Lemon
They go through all.
- [32:28]
Jim Acosta
The trouble, spend $40 million to give him a Kim Jong Un parade. He can't. The guy. The guy can't stay awake.
- [32:33]
Don Lemon
But that's a serious Part that was a waste of $45 million. And I am told, and I'm sure you've heard this through the reporting, I think for some $30 million, they could have taken care of all the health care for all of our active duty military and their kids and all that. And Instead they spent $45 million on a parade that was a bomb. And then there's, you know, the other, the Fox News of the world and the conservative media of the world saying, well, this was planned for two years or whatever. That parade was not planned for two years. There was a celebr. Was planned for two years. And all you have to do is look at the parade and look at the quality of the parade and you'll know that it was thrown together at the last minute. And one of the reason I, reasons I know it was thrown together at the last minute, Jim, is because through sources that I reported in Los Angeles, they hired at the almost the very last minute a costumer, costuming companies in Los Angeles to send in fatigues and military uniforms starting back, yeah, from the start of the army so that they could put either army or active duty soldiers in them to, you know, to sort of fill out the parade. So it was, it was such bullshit.
- [33:43]
Jim Acosta
It was, it was, it was, it was a bullshit palooza. And you know, I, to me, that was the most delicious way that it could have turned out because, I mean, you and I were talking about, oh, it could rain, it could rain. I mean, it basically rained boredom is what it did. It was a.
- [34:00]
Don Lemon
But it did rain right at 6 o' clock when it started, though. Did you notice that?
- [34:04]
Jim Acosta
I know, I know there was a little message being sent, I think a little bit. I, the other thing I want to ask you about is, and I don't know how much you, well, I was going to ask you about, I was going to ask you about the city comptroller getting arrested by, which is completely nuts. But the other thing I was going to ask you about is Trump and Tucker Carlson going at one another, because I know you used to be in primetime and would compete kind of with Tucker Carlson. And Tucker was Trump's best buddy there for the longest time, but they've had a complete falling out, it seems, over Iran. Trump during the 2016 campaign used to go after George Bush over the Iraq war and everything. I guess now Trump is a pro war, he's a war hawk and is okay with going to war in the Middle East. Tucker's against it. But I mean, what do you think about this? It's kind of interesting. And I don't know what to make of it. You know, just fight, you know.
- [34:51]
Don Lemon
Well, I think it's interesting that Tucker is not only going after Donald Trump, he's going after Sean Hannity. It was mentioned in that tweet, Rupert Murdoch, which Miriam Adelson, which is the money saying that basically that these people are warmongers and they need to cut it out because it's going to harm the United States and our men and women in uniform overseas. Now, look, I can't say I'm not a national security expert, but I do think a broken clock is right twice a day. And I do think there is something to what Tucker Carlson is saying, if not the last tweet, but the one where he tweeted in March where he said, you know, if they start striking, you know, strategic sites in Iran, that it was going to be there, were our men and women in uniform in the region, would face some repercussions for that. And I do believe that that is true. So I don't think that we should be going about this. You know, people should be, rah, rah, rah, let's get into this conflict. Even whether if you're pro Israel or not, I just think that we need to. Cooler heads need to prevail. And I do not believe, I don't believe for the life of me that Donald Trump has really much influence in this at all. I think Bibi Netanyahu is leading it, and he's saying, you check me, I'm going to do whatever I want. And Donald Trump is pretending that he has any.
- [36:11]
Jim Acosta
I think you're absolutely right. I think that is dead on. I think you're absolutely right. And you and I are both old enough to remember what a fiasco the Iraq war was. And there's all of this confidence that, oh, when we go in, everything's going to be fine. We know what we're doing. We're going to take out these people. The United States military was stuck in Iraq for basically a decade. You had soldiers being committed to multiple deployments. I think what Donald Trump is doing right now is playing with fire. We're having to commit more and more resources to the region. And I don't think he fully understands what he's getting himself into, honestly. And I think you're right. He's pretending.
- [36:49]
Don Lemon
He's pretending. And I don't know if you saw, man, it was years ago when Barack Obama was president. Have you seen this going around where people are saying, this was Donald Trump's the, the Donald, the past Donald Trump speak, speaking to his future self when he said the president of the United States, meaning Barack Obama, does not know what he's doing. He's going to get us into a war with Iran because he doesn't know what he's doing. And it's like, oh, interesting. Now, you don't know until you sit in that seat, you know, what the, what the possibilities are, what the upset and the, you know, the downfalls or anything. You don't know. So anyone can criticize. Right. Until you sit in that seat. But I believe, Jim, that Donald Trump has no domestic policy agenda. He doesn't have a domestic policy agenda. He doesn't have a foreign policy agenda. There's no compass. There's nothing written down. He's just flying by the seat of his pants, not getting his daily briefings every day, as you would know more about that than I would. And he has people in charge who are incompetent people in charge.
- [37:50]
Jim Acosta
You and I were talking about this over the weekend, and I think this is driving a huge part of his presidency right now. And that is he has no wins. He has no wins. He cannot win. He doesn't win on legislation. He's not winning on immigration. And now I'm a little worried that he thinks he can go get a win in the Middle East. In the Middle east by hitching his wagon to Netanyahu and having a world war in the Middle East. And I think what he's doing is very dangerous right now and saying, well, we know where the Ayatollah is and we control the skies over Iran. You know, when you say we have, he said earlier today, we now have complete and total control over the skies over Iran. So that means if bad stuff happens, that's on you. Yeah, Donald Trump.
- [38:34]
Don Lemon
Yeah. But also, yes, you're right. If bad stuff happens, it's on you. But also, hey, this is how I know he's pretending everybody in Tehran needs to leave, all the citizens. It's like, what do you, why is it his business, his job to do that? You know, and this sort of the sky is falling and like, and I'm leaving the G7. And it's like, and guess what? Everybody there and I told them that they should have made a deal. That's a sign of someone who is not in control and is just bluster. Him standing, going, you know, I told him, he didn't tell. He didn't tell anybody anything. And they're not listening to him. They don't really Care what he has to say.
- [39:12]
Jim Acosta
Yeah. He is president. Squeaky tanks, as somebody was just mentioning a few moments ago. I mean, it's just the tanks are squeaking. They're, you know, the folks aren't clapping, that's for sure. And then what is going on Ice is just. They just arrest anybody. Now you can be the New York City comptroller, you can be a judge, you can be a member of Congress. They just go and arrest anybody.
- [39:34]
Don Lemon
Now they arrest anyone.
- [39:35]
Jim Acosta
The comptroller to Brad Lander, I guess.
- [39:38]
Don Lemon
Brad Lander, who is the comptroller and also he's running for mayor. And the election is just in a couple weeks, a couple days, really, I should say.
- [39:46]
Jim Acosta
And he's the mayor.
- [39:47]
Don Lemon
He's number four. He's running for mayor.
- [39:49]
Jim Acosta
Yeah.
- [39:50]
Don Lemon
And so go ahead. What'd you say?
- [39:53]
Jim Acosta
No, I was just gonna. It made me wonder, like, because I'm not focusing in on the. The mayoral election, who's gonna win that race? Sounds like. Is. Is Andrew Cuomo going to get beaten here?
- [40:04]
Don Lemon
That's.
- [40:04]
Jim Acosta
This is going to be a tight, tight race.
- [40:07]
Don Lemon
Here's the thing. You should be paying attention. This is really interesting. I mean, because, you know, it's kind of interesting because we sort of know some of the people are involved.
- [40:16]
Jim Acosta
We kind of know.
- [40:17]
Don Lemon
We kind of know. But it's. What's interesting is if you had asked me a month ago, maybe I would say, oh, well, Andrew Cuomo, you know.
- [40:27]
Jim Acosta
Yeah.
- [40:28]
Don Lemon
You know, he was governor. His dad was governor, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I even. I think I even said that on social media, that probably, he's probably going to win. But the enthusiasm that this Zoran Mandani has is really unbelievable. He is. He went from like 8% in the polls or 2%, I forget. And now he is neck and neck with Andrew Cuomo. If not surpassing him, he has surpassed him in enthusiasm. All of the young folks want him, and they're even. And they're, you know, Bernie endorsed him.
- [40:59]
Jim Acosta
Bernie endorsed him.
- [41:00]
Don Lemon
Yeah, Bernie endorsed him. And AOC did as well. AOC has been speaking at his rallies. And so the progressive wing of the Democratic Party is behind him. And I think Andrew Cuomo made a miscalculation. I think that many people in the party have made that. They think that becoming Republican light, that that would somehow save them or, you know, a conservative Democrat, sort of center right. And I think the people want universal healthcare. Right. There are even Republicans who want universal health care at this point. And what Mamdani is doing is he has capitalized his messages about affordability, Jim.
- [41:40]
Jim Acosta
Yeah.
- [41:41]
Don Lemon
And it turns out that the number one issue is not crime. The number one issue is not, you know, getting the, the upper middle class or the wealthy people their salt tax, you know, tax deduction. The number one thing is affordability. Hamdani is saying that he wants to free buses, the city buses should be free for working class and poor people, and that he wants a freeze on rents and he wants to try to make the city affordable for all people, not just the wealthy. And, and that has really caught on.
- [42:12]
Jim Acosta
That's interesting because, I mean, it's true. Manhattan has become this incredibly unaffordable place. I mean, they've been sort of ahead of the curve on not people not being able to afford anything. And I mean, it's squeezing everybody. So that's very interesting. If he could somehow beat Andrew Cuomo, I, that that would be a very, very wild development.
- [42:33]
Don Lemon
Can I tell you what's throwing a. What really is throwing a curveball into it? This is a big unknown, right, Or a level of. What do you call it, a difficulty. Another level of difficulty is that we have ranked choice voting here.
- [42:46]
Jim Acosta
Oh, it's a ranked choice thing.
- [42:48]
Don Lemon
Yeah. And so, and Mandani's people are really smart because they're telling all of their, if you vote for Mandani, do not rank Andrew Cuomo at all. And so.
- [42:58]
Jim Acosta
Oh, interesting. So he moves down the list.
- [43:01]
Don Lemon
So he moves down the list and they're hoping that he doesn't even make the list. See, they're like, rank everybody else, but just do not rank Andrew Cuomo. And if all of those people do that, that's going to throw a monkey wrench. But still, there's still the general. He can still run after that. But it's going to be difficult if Andrew Cuomo loses to Mandani. But we'll see. I mean, look, high name recognition against new blood, enthusiasm, young people. He's doing what Donald Trump did, by the way. I hate to hog the conversation, but he's doing what Donald Trump did and that he is engaging and animating a part of the electorate that is not usually energized, and that's young people.
- [43:37]
Jim Acosta
No, I mean, to me, it's fascinating and I don't mind going on this tangent because honestly, it is the thing that is animating the Democratic Party right now. And it seems to me that there are forces in the Democratic Party that are resisting this. They don't want to go along with it, and it's to their detriment, because you might as well Go where the energy and the excitement is right now. Because everywhere else, there ain't any. You don't have any energy and excitement. I mean, they're not. They're showing up. Tens of thousands of people are showing up for Bernie rallies and AOC rallies. And that's where the energy is. It just is.
- [44:10]
Don Lemon
Well, they're nervous. They're nervous that they're. A lot of things are nervous. Jewish people are nervous because they're saying that Mamdani is anti Semitic. Right. Because he's also. They don't think that he's equipped to deal with the homeless problem. They think it's just going to be like another sort of socialist thing where they, you know, are letting criminals out and, you know, no bail or whatever that is, free bail or whatever it is. You remember that whole thing.
- [44:35]
Jim Acosta
Yeah.
- [44:35]
Don Lemon
So they're concerned about the city becoming too progressive and too lenient on crime and homelessness. And then the Andrew Cuomo folks, you know, they're dealing with the whole sexual assault and all that allegations. And so I don't know if you saw the clip from the. There was a. A debate, and Andrew Cuomo said, you haven't done this. You haven't done that. You haven't done this. You're not qualified. And then Mamdani responded and said, you're right, I haven't done a lot of things. I haven't been credibly accused by many women of sexual assault. I have not ripped the state off for hundreds of millions of dollars. I have not done this. I have not done that.
- [45:15]
Jim Acosta
And I think, oh, my God.
- [45:17]
Don Lemon
And he goes, by the way, I've done all of those things he went through. And he goes, and by the way, the name is Mamdani. Learn how to say it. And then he was going to go. He almost said, because I'm going to be the mayor. But then he just said, just because it's important to know. But that was a. Yeah.
- [45:32]
Jim Acosta
And I'm seeing here, he's 33 years old and. Yeah, he said he's. He admires Bernie Sanders, calls him the single most influential political figure in my life. And he says, make no mistake, oligarchy is on the ballot. Andrew Cuomo is the candidate of a billionaire class that is suffocating our democracy. I mean, this is, you know, watch out, folks. This is what we're going to be seeing, I think, over the next year and a half, heading into the midterms, you're going to see a lot of candidates in that same vein doing pretty well, because people are so pissed off right now. They want real alternatives. They don't want Mambi Pamby, let's walk, get tiptoe through the tulips and that plain vanilla stuff. But, yeah, Don, I know you got a show to get to. I won't hold you up, but great conversation. And I'm glad we got into the mayoral stuff, because I've totally neglected that. So thank you for bringing.
- [46:21]
Don Lemon
Yeah, look, come here. Right here. The Don Lemon Show.
- [46:24]
Jim Acosta
There you go.
- [46:24]
Don Lemon
Lemon live at 5. I'll see you guys on YouTube if you're. But if you're at Jim, stay here with Jim. I'm not trying to take. Jim's on.
- [46:30]
Jim Acosta
No, no, I'll be done by that. I ain't putting in a whole hour.
- [46:36]
Don Lemon
I'll see you, Jim.
- [46:37]
Jim Acosta
Thank you, man.
- [46:37]
Don Lemon
You're the best. Thank you for playing. I had such a great time with you. Okay. Always. Let's keep doing it.
- [46:42]
Jim Acosta
See you, Don. Thanks a lot. Okay, so the problem, you know, one of the issues. I shouldn't say the problem. One of the issues with Don is I get carried away, and we have so much fun that I forget, oh, yeah. I'm broadcasting, and people can hear the stuff that I'm saying. So I have to be somewhat circumspect, but always good to talk to the great Don Lemon. And, you know, listen, we had a couple of little hiccups there in the tech department, and we persevere. You can't keep a good man down like Don Lemon. You can't keep a good man down like yours truly. And I just want to say, finally, that I really appreciate everybody tuning in day after day, week after week on this program. I'm doing my best to finish out the week and do three more shows. It's unclear whether that's going to happen as I'm taking my dad in for cataract surgery on Thursday. And, you know, he's never done this before, and he. I don't even think he's been under anesthesia before. He's. He's a Cuban immigrant who normally doesn't really like to go to the doctor very much. And he. I take him to the doctor quite a bit these days, and he has. He has to jump through a lot of tubes, hoops just to get a doctor's appointment for this cataract surgery. And. And so there's gonna be. It's gonna be, you know, a little touch and go at the latter half of this week. In the later days of this week, maybe Thursday and Friday might be touch and go as to whether I'm on with you, I'll do my best to be on with you, but I have to warn you, ahead of time might not take place. But, you know, in the meantime, you know, we, we've got a lot, a lot of news to, to talk about. As I was talking about with Barbara Starr yesterday. I asked Barbara the question, are we going to see war between Israel and Iran? And Barbara basically said she didn't know and it was unclear. And it's just unclear as to what is going to take place in the coming days between Israel and Iran. But I will tell you only because I have this experience, sadly, fortunately, however you want to put it, it's burned in my brain. And we have to remind the viewers of this or remind the folks at home of this. In 2016, one of the key pillars of Donald Trump's run for the presidency was his opposition. He claimed he was opposed to the war in Iraq. Now, if you went back and you looked at exactly what he said, he sort of was wishy washy in the run up to the war in Iraq, but he became a very tough critic of George W. Bush. He became a very tough critic of the Bush administration and how the Iraq war was handled. He was not, I don't think, as consistent as, say, a Barack Obama was. I mean, remember, Barack Obama became President in 2008 in large part because of his opposition to the war in Iraq. I believe it was Obama who said, as a state senator, I'm not opposed to all wars. I am opposed to a dumb war. And much of that fueled Obama's movement across this country. I was out there on the campaign trail. I witnessed it. And Donald Trump, I think perhaps, you know, being a keen political observer that he is or was, I don't know what you can call him now since that picked up on it and became a bit of an anti war guy himself. And I covered him out on the campaign trail. And one of the most surprising things about covering Donald Trump out on the campaign trail was to see him just absolutely savaging George W. Bush, absolutely savaging his fellow Republicans, absolutely savaging the Bush administration and its handling of the war in Iraq. So I must say it is quite surprising to me to hear Donald Trump or see Donald Trump put out tweets or truth social posts, whatever you want to call it, where he's saying that Iran must unconditionally surrender and saying, we know exactly where the so called supreme leader is. He is an easy target, but he is safe there. We're not going to take him out, kill. At least not for now. We don't want missiles shot at civilians or American soldiers. Our patience is wearing thin. I mean, I must say, the rhetoric he is using, the language he is using. He also said we now have complete and total control over the skies, over Iran. Nobody does it better than the good old US Of A. He's sounding a lot like, and this is not a knock on George W. Bush, it's not a slap against George W. Bush, but it is sort of using the same kind of rhetoric, isn't it, folks who remember it as well as I do, using the same kind of beating the drums of war rhetoric that led this country into the disaster, the catastrophe of the Iraq war, which undoubtedly reshaped Middle east policy. It strengthened Iran. Speaking of Iran, the Iraq war, at the end of the day, strengthened Iran. And it was a disaster for the US Military. The way that US Soldiers and their families were subjected to the heartache of multiple deployments. All of the soldiers whose lives were lost, obviously all of the money that was wasted in waging that war, the fact that the war in Afghanistan and the mission to kill Osama bin Laden was basically put on the back burner. I mean, need I go on? It took years to take out Osama bin Laden, in part because the Bush administration took the country into this misadventure in Iraq. Donald Trump, if you go back and look and read and hear what he said and watch what he said, was a very tough critic of George W. Bush and the Bush administration's handling of the Iraq war. So it's fascinating to me. It's kind of amazing to me to see Donald Trump become basically a Fox News warhawk, to basically go running in the direction of the Lindsay Rams of the Republican Party because he sounds like somebody who wants to go to war. And I will just say, I will remind everybody of the Colin Powell doctrine. Colin Powell, the former secretary of State under George W. Bush, former chairman of the Joint Chiefs, at one time he had a rule called the Pottery Barn rule. You break it, you bought it. Donald Trump, I don't know if he watches this program. Probably should watch this program. Might help him out from time to time, give him some pointers. Donald Trump, if you break Iran, you bought it.
- [53:42]
Keith Ellison
You bought it.
- [53:44]
Jim Acosta
And you get whatever happens in its aftermath. And I don't think people forget what a disaster, what a mess it was for the United States of America over the course of 10, 15. I mean, you could really say 20 years. I mean, up until the removal of US troops in Afghanistan. This was a debacle that took place in Iraq, an absolute debacle. And the far right can say, well, you know, Saddam Hussein was deposed, but at what cost? The very country that is being bombed right now by the Israelis, the very country whose skies Donald Trump says he has under his control, Iran, was strengthened as a result of the war in Iraq. So I just have to point out it sounds very, it's very interesting to me that Donald Trump is now beating the drums of war. It's very interesting to me that President Squeaky Tanks is beating the drums of war because war, as we know, can lead to unintended consequences. If you break it, you bought it. And with that, I want to thank the attorney general for the state of Minnesota, Keith Ellison, my friend Don Lemon. Thanks everybody for watching. Still reporting from Washington, I'm Jim Acosta. Have a good evening. Good night.