← The Jim Acosta Show
The Jim Acosta Show
New media star Harry Sisson, former Biden ad writer Cliff Schecter on pushing back against Trump plus national security experts Elise Labott and Sean Savett on Signalgate Round 2.
01:07:10
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- [00:01]
Jim Acosta
Hey, welcome, everybody, to the Jim Acosta Show. It is Tuesday, and as you can see, joining me today is new media rising star Harry Sisson. Harry, great to see you.
- [00:11]
Harry Sisson
Thank you for having me on, Mr. Acosta. It's great to be here.
- [00:14]
Jim Acosta
Oh, no, you gotta call me Jim. There's no way Jim.
- [00:16]
Harry Sisson
You want Jim, you got it, Jim. We'll go with Jim.
- [00:18]
Jim Acosta
Jim is good. That'll just make me feel older. But, Harry, you were just telling me before we got started here, this is your first substack Live.
- [00:27]
Harry Sisson
This is my first substack Live. I've been on substack for three or four months. I think something along that. But I've kind of just been like, tweeting, I guess, as you would call it, just like posting notes and stuff like that. So I've never done a substack live. I actually just launched my newsletter today. So it's like, perfect timing and I really appreciate the platform and allowing to, like, flesh out thoughts in greater detail than you normally would on, like, other platforms. So I'm, you know, excited to be here.
- [00:52]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, no, totally. And I noticed earlier today you were writing on Substack, you posted about Kilmar Abrego Garcia. Garcia, the man who was living in Maryland until he was scooped up by the Trump administration and sent down to that notorious mega prison in El Salvador. And I guess we could just get into this. I mean, one thing we should note. The Washington Post reported earlier today that the wife of Kilmar has been moved to a safe house by supporters after U.S. officials posted a court document on social media that included the family's address. Jennifer Vasquez Sura told the Washington Post that she began fearing for her safety after all of that. And you wrote about this on Substack. You wrote about Kilmar, and you wrote, normally, the unwavering support of Donald Trump by the MAGA movement might make the average person worried that the plurality of people who put him into office have lost touch with reality. But in a remarkable twist, it turns out that most people think Donald Trump has gone too far in these removals. I mean, you can call them deportations, but they're not really deportations because they haven't had proper proceedings. And you point out that Aaron Blake in the Washington Post cited a YouGov poll that shows Americans opposed deporting people who don't have criminal convictions to El Salvador by more than a 2 to 1 margin. And you also wrote about, despite the distressing about face by Democrats like Gavin Newsom, you know, we should Care. You went on to say, basically, we should care about this because it's the right thing to do. What did you mean by that?
- [02:22]
Harry Sisson
Well, I think that post the 2024 election, the Democrats have really done a lot of soul searching, and a lot of people have just landed on the idea of, like, just appeal to whatever's popular, appeal to what we know is a win message. You know, don't get into the nuances, the intricacies of some of these bigger, broader topics that involve the courts, the law, you know, due process, and things like that. I think that that's a fundamentally incorrect philosophy. I think that Democrats, we should have principle. And when we see something wrong in the form of Mr. Abrego Garcia getting deported with no due process, no court hearing, no ability to even hear the evidence that the government has against him, we should call that out. It might not be, like, politically sexy. It's not a phrase that you can fit on a yard sign in three words, but it's the right thing to do and makes America better and obviously pushes back on the injustices that the Trump administration is perpetuating right now.
- [03:13]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, I mean, I'm glad you said this and the way you said it, because this has been on my mind, too. There seems to be this, and I wrote about this over the weekend. There seems to be this debate over how this should be sliced and diced politically. And there's conversation in the political press about how Trump sees this, and he sees it advantageous for him for everybody to be talking about Kilmar instead of what's happening with the stock market and the economy and so on. But to me, it just boils down to, is this right? Is it right to just take this guy off the streets without due process? Is he a good guy? Is he a bad guy? I don't know. That's why you have a process. That's why you have hearings. That's why you put him in front of a judge. And Trump put this on Truth Social. He said, we cannot give everyone a trial because to do so would take without exaggeration, 200 years, which, of course, is an exaggeration. We would need hundreds of thousands of trials for the hundreds of thousands of illegals we were sending out of the country. So, I mean, you know, he's obviously lying there. But when you have the President of the United States saying, well, we can't do due process, I'm sorry, that should be a major headline.
- [04:16]
Harry Sisson
Yeah. I mean, that is terrifying coming from the President of the United States. You know, Benjamin Franklin said something. I'm not going to quote it verbatim, because I'll butcher it, but he said something along the lines of, it's better to have 100 guilty people free than one innocent person suffer. And that's a philosophy that has existed in the United States for hundreds of years. Now. We have all, collectively, as Americans, recognize the importance of due process, even if somebody is being accused of the most heinous crimes. Now we have a President of the United States who's saying, you know what? Screw all of that. I don't like these people. I think these people are bad for America. So this whole due process thing, the finding out if they're actually bad people, let's just skirt that and get to the part that I like. Let's just send them out of the country. And then I get up on my podium, I take credit for protecting the American people. And that's the. The typical Trump game. But I think any American that, you know is rational, Democrat, Republican, independent, whatever, recognizes the importance of the Fifth Amendment, of the 14th Amendment, that protects you as an American from just being presumed guilty and not even an American citizen, anybody has this right to due process. Donald Trump doesn't think so. It's part of his, you know, dictatorial tirade that he's gone on since January 20th.
- [05:24]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, he said he wanted to be a dictator for just one day, but as it turns out, it was more than just one day. And when the comic. Yeah, and when the president starts talking about just dispensing with due process for people who are, you know, of questionable legal status in the country, I mean, what's the leap to we're not going to have due process for other people? I mean, that's. That's the scary part of this. And, Harry, I mean, I have to think that. And I know you can't speak on behalf of all young people and all gen zers, but my sense of it is, is that there is a real, you know, kind of stirring inside that generation right now over a lot of what's taking place right now when it comes to Kilmar and these mass deportations.
- [06:03]
Harry Sisson
Yeah. I mean, it's. It's stunning for me. Like, I have friends who are not all that politically involved. You know, they vote occasionally, they read the news every once in a while. And then I talk to people who are more politically involved on the right, and, you know, there's some deviation here and there, but for the most part, I'm just hearing across the board that people are, like, really grossed out by what we're seeing, they're just picking people off of the street, making them disappear, and then they show up and El Salvador prison with no ability to even challenge that. So you're right. I can't speak for all young people. I don't claim to speak for all young people, but from my personal experience, which is anecdotal, people are really just grossed out by what Donald Trump was doing here.
- [06:40]
Jim Acosta
Yeah. All right, well, I'm going to. I'm going to attempt to get you to speak on behalf of all young people or many young people in just a moment here, because I want to talk about this. And it has something to do with the issue of immigration. Does anybody remember how Donald Trump once disparaged migrants coming across the border from Mexico as rapists and killers? And remember how he said they're not sending their best? Much could be said about the people Trump has sent to Washington to work in his administration. Witness Pete Hegseth, who has been quite the Chatty Cathy over the Signal app, the nexus of the scandal, otherwise known as Signalgate. And this brings me to this. White House press secretary Caroline Levitt says Trump is, quote, standing strongly behind Pete Hegseth and that Trump feels his defense secretary is, quote, doing a tremendous job. I've covered the White House a couple of times under Obama and under Trump. You kind of, you know, is he currently standing strongly behind him? Is he standing strongly behind him because he's going to push him under the bus? I mean, these are all questions that I have, but, I mean, you know, the way. I don't know if you saw this, Harry, but the way Hegseth was defending himself at the White House Easter egg roll, and he's blaming the leakers, he's blaming the media, and yet he's the guy that, you know, put it in the Signal chat. You know, I mean, he. He did this.
- [07:56]
Harry Sisson
Yeah. And that's the funny thing. It's like he's trying to put the. It's kind of the Trump playbook. You know what I mean? Just blame everybody except yourself for when something goes wrong. He just implemented it in front of his children, in front of his wife, in a very public way at the Easter egg rule, saying, you know what? It's actually the media who is wrong for talking about this. You know, they're full of hoaxes and things like that. He used a bunch of buzzwords. But, yeah, no, I mean, that's. That's what he's doing. He's just. No, no accountability whatsoever. When, as you correctly pointed Out. He's the guy who created the group chat with his wife, with his brother, with his lawyer and many other people and shared that information. It's just no accountability with this administration ever.
- [08:33]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, and I mean, the other thing, too is, you know, as you said, he not only shared this with, you know, people on the National Security Council and people at high levels of the administration, he's. He shared this with family members, with his personal lawyer, and the fact that they're dancing on a hat of a pin as to whether or not this is classified information. NBC is reporting they named the general who gave him the information that he passed on. And it is specifically the type of stuff that you would never want to put in these chats. But, I mean, speaking of Caroline Levitt, I mean, the reason why I brought her up is the other thing that happened at the White House today. She invited Tim Pool, the, the podcaster. He's from the right. I think he's from the right side of things. She invited him to be in that new media seat asking questions in the White House briefing room. He did this despite not wearing a suit. He gave Zelensky a hard time for not wearing a suit. And yet he was not wearing. He had the beanie on. He had the whole. The whole tentpool outfit. I just, you know, I feel a little icky even talking about the guy, but, I mean, Harry, this is sort of in your wheelhouse. How the hell did this guy get into the White House briefing room to ask these questions?
- [09:46]
Harry Sisson
You know, it's such a good question, because when I think of the White House press briefing room, I think of folks like yourself who are qualified. I think of folks like Kaitlan Collins. I think of these really, really great journalists who have dedicated their lives to finding the truth. Not, you know, what a party says, but the truth. And then you pan, barring the Fox News people, and you see Tim Pool sitting there in his zip up hoodie, his beanie, and he's asking the most absurd questions to Caroline Levitt. He got the first question question of the day. She went directly to him, and he went on this tirade of, oh, again, the media in the room with us are hoaxers. They're liars. It is just, I think you. The word icky, when you used it is correct. I feel like, just weird knowing that this man who has spread the worst conspiracy theories of them all, is sitting in the White House press briefing room, which should be a place of honor and integrity and truth, but has now been by this administration turned into, you know, A soapbox, a place where, you know, their, their allies get to voice their question. And if anybody asks a question that's a little bit difficult, they say, not answering it, you're fake news. And then they move on. It's. I don't know.
- [10:53]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, I mean, the reason why I bring it up is, you know, Harry. And again, I don't want to have you out as somebody who speaks on behalf of all young people in the world, but one of the things that I think the Trump people might have gotten right during the 2024 campaign is the way they drew upon new media, independent media, podcasters, guys on the right, guys sitting in their underwear in their mother's basement doing whatever, you know, talking into a microphone. Oh, wait a minute. No, I swear I'm not wearing, wearing something besides underwear. But anyway, no, but, you know, it is, it is kind of. I have to say, it is remarkable how they were able to draw upon that as a. As an asset, as a resource during that campaign. And I wonder if you think perhaps the Democrats came up a little short in that category. What's happening now? I mean, you're on with me now. You're somewhat in demand, obviously. I saw you have a million plus followers on TikTok. I mean, there's obviously an appetite and a hunger for this, and this is an avenue that I think maybe the Democratic Party just hasn't tapped into enough.
- [11:55]
Harry Sisson
Yeah, I mean, you know, as a creator that lived through the 2024 election, I can easily say that the Democrats have just not done enough when it comes to tapping in to new media. And this pains me to say, but something that Donald Trump did really well throughout the campaign was being willing to go anywhere, talking to anybody in any. At any media forum, even if he didn't really understand it. Like, you know, when he was doing that live stream with Aiden Ross, for example, it's very clear that Donald Trump is completely oblivious. He has, like, no idea what's going on and doesn't understand it at all, but he at least went there. And a lot of these people who watch someone like Aiden Ross haven't really heard from a politician directly before. They're kind of just on a totally different side of the Internet. So the Democrats have to realize that the new meeting them where they're at is not necessarily door knocking. It's not going door to door. It's going on these social media platforms, going and talking to these independent media folks and spreading our messages as far as we can. The Republicans have learned that so far, the Democrats Haven't. But I think that since the election, a lot of Democrats have started to. Caught on and, and made the necessary changes.
- [12:56]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, I mean, I've talked to a number of House members who have said, oh, yeah, I need to come on your show, Jim. This is exactly what we need to be doing. And I'm thinking to myself, hey, I am not this young, you know, rising star in independent media. I mean, you know, I, I'm doing okay, but nobody's going to call me young. But I mean, Harry, I mean, this is something that the Democrats have just not done well. And I'm wondering, is it too late? Is it. Do you see the beginnings of maybe that, that act getting, you know, put together on the part of the Democrats?
- [13:28]
Harry Sisson
Well, look, I'd like to believe it's not too late. I'd like to believe that the Democrats can still make the changes and talk to the folks that we need to, but we need to do it quickly because, you know, the midterms are in 2026. That feels like a long way away, but it's really not in terms of campaigning, so we really have to jump on this now. And I'm really encouraged by what you just said. House members reaching out to you. I got the, had the honor of speaking to senators like Cory Booker, Adam Schiff, and they like, made the effort to go on these platforms, which I thought was so impressive. But, like, we need to make these changes now. And any outside firm or group that's saying, no, you know, let's just stick to TV ads, needs to be out of politics. They need to get lost.
- [14:06]
Jim Acosta
And Harry, you kind of do these debates with folks from other sides of the political spectrum and so on. You do this on TikTok, is that right? That's right, yeah. How does that, I mean, how do you do that? How do those discussions go? I mean, one of the things that I see directed at you here, I mean, there's a lot of people in MAGA world who don't like you and they, and they go after you and they say unkind things and they'll take, I mean, this reminds me of what I went through covering Trump the first time around. They'll take pictures of you that maybe they're, it wasn't the best, you know, freeze frame of you making a face or whatever, and they'll turn that into a meme. What has that been like for you? You know, you're, you're on the early side of your years. You know, that's a lot to go through.
- [14:48]
Harry Sisson
Yeah, you Know, I just got this, asked this question recently of like does it ever bother you? And my answer is always no. Because I'm so flattered that these like middle aged men who are sitting at their laptops in their basement get so angered by me advocating for, you know, what I believe in. But no, it doesn't bother me at all. You've been through, I'm going through happens to so many people. What keeps me going is what I, the reason I started this for. I want to push back on Trump. I want to fight for what's right. And you know, these MAGA lunatics can yap at me in my comments all they want. They can take all the photoshopped photos and go crazy. But you know, it's not going to change the goal of advocating for what I believe America should look like and advocating for what I believe in.
- [15:30]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, it reminds me of that. What's that Parker Posey line from White Lotus 2? What are you doing with all these middle aged weirdos? Is that what it's. But I mean it's your fault. I mean they're, they're the ones coming after you. But I, I have to say for all middle aged weirdos out there, if you are spending one second of your time messing with Harry Sisson, you really need to re examine what's happening in your life. I just, you know, let that be an endorsement of you, Harry. I mean honestly, I, well, I appre.
- [15:57]
Harry Sisson
I, I, I agree. I, I, you know, it's, it's mostly like on Twitter, especially middle aged men who are like taking photos of me, then putting it into Photoshop and then editing you know, in, in inappropriate or just something gross into the might be and it's like on a level, on, on a human level, I almost feel bad for them because it's like something must have gone wrong to lead you down this path of like photoshopping. 20 or 22 years old. You gotta, you gotta find a hobby or do something better.
- [16:23]
Jim Acosta
Did you say you're 22, Harry?
- [16:25]
Harry Sisson
I'm 22, yeah.
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Jim Acosta
Oh my God. I just got, I just got far palpitations.
- [16:30]
Harry Sisson
Jim, you don't look a day over 30, man.
- [16:32]
Jim Acosta
Oh yeah, thanks a lot. No, I appreciate that. No, but, but Harry, you know the other question that I have is what the view is of legacy media. Because it's funny when people throw around the term legacy media, it's folks on the left who kind of throw that around. I remember Sarah Palin, she would say the lamestream media, then Donald Trump picked up on it. And fake news, enemy of the people and so on. People on the left don't call the press the enemy in that sort of thing. But they do use the term legacy media in a derogatory way. And I'm wondering if just younger folks feel that way, especially younger folks on the left, they're just sort of done with, you know, some of these brand name outlets. I don't encourage that. I mean I definitely think keep the pressure on them so they keep asking the hard questions. But your thoughts?
- [17:19]
Harry Sisson
Yeah, I mean I think I might differ from my generation a little bit on this topic. I think a lot of people in Gen Z, like don't really pay attention to traditional media. They don't necessarily go to CNN or the New York Times to get information about a breaking news story. Unfortunately, I think a lot of people turn to social media now. Could be a good thing and a bad thing. A good thing in the sense that like folks like yourself exist on social media and you double, triple, quadruple check your sources. But on the flip side, there are people who don't. There are people who just run with headlines and run with misinformation and it's really easy for young people who are not super informed and not super media literate to kind of fall into the trap of listening to this misinformation. So I think that's a problem with Gen Z. But from my perspective, I, I don't really like the term legacy media. I think it's a little bit derogatory. I think that so many folks in legacy media as we're discussing right now, like cnn, msnbc, New York Times, Washington Post, whatever, again, these are people who've dedicated their lives to journalism. They've dedicated their lives to the truth. And I've talked to some people at these outlets, as I mentioned, they double, quadruple, triple check their sources before they put anything out. They really care about getting it right. So I always encourage people to rely on these sources as opposed to like your favorite social media creator who you know, hasn't done.
- [18:35]
Jim Acosta
You gotta have it all. You gotta have a healthy diet of everything. And that's what I tell people all the time. And there are people, you know, in legacy media, whatever you want to call it, brand name media, mainstream media, who are taking courageous stands. I mean just today the executive producer of 60 Minutes, he resigned. Bill Owens, a guy I worked with a long time ago, I'm not going to say how long ago he was the executive producer of 60 Minutes. He said he would resign today. This is in The New York Times because he had lost his journalistic independence. He is only the third person to run the program in its 57 year history. And when the executive producer of 60 Minutes is resigning, and he's the only third, he's only the third person to be the executive producer in the history of 60 Minutes. I mean, that tells you that we've got some big problems on our hands. I mean, that's a concern.
- [19:26]
Harry Sisson
It's incredibly concerning. I mean, this is a continued theme for Trump. I mean, throughout his time running for office or even being in office, he's called for MSNBC and CNN to be shut down, just broadly, you know, completely violating the First Amendment. And now we're seeing pressure on news outlets like ABC with, you know, George Stephanopoulos, who had the verdict or the settlement, I should say. And now the 60 Minutes executive producer is resigning. I mean, we are going down a very dark path and it's incredibly scary that we're still less than 100 days in like this is less than 100 days.
- [20:02]
Jim Acosta
You know, I, I know it's been, it's been 100 days of hell. And, you know, and a lot of people are feeling it right now. Harry, it has been just, it's been so much fun talking to you. I hope we can keep doing this and you hang in there, man. Don't let the, don't let the middle aged weirdos get you down.
- [20:20]
Harry Sisson
Well, likewise. I appreciate the conversation. I'll still be a fan of you. I'm going to read your stuff all the time and thank you for having me on. We should do it again sometime. It was cool.
- [20:27]
Jim Acosta
Okay, sounds good. Check out Harry and all the socials. And on substack, he's got a new substack. Harry, great to see you. Thanks, Harry.
- [20:32]
Harry Sisson
Thank you, man. Appreciate it.
- [20:33]
Jim Acosta
Harry. Okay. You know, Harry, you know, he, there are these trailblazers out there in our business right now and, and Harry is one of them. Harry. You know, I remember being a young guy in this business and, you know, I, I started out going to local TV markets. That's, that's what he did back in those days. And I started off in Knoxville, Tennessee, and then went to Dallas and Chicago and just kept moving around the country learning how to be a TV reporter. But Harry is showing how you do it in this new age. And so I was trying my damnedest not to sound like an old dude talking to Harry, and I think I failed miserably. Now I'm going to bring on a fellow old dude if that's okay. Cliff Schechter, he and I have been playing phone tag and email tag for several weeks now and Cliff is great. Cliff is very prominent here on the substack, as I like to call it. He was an ad writer for Joe Biden and, and Cliff definitely has some strong views. I'm going to pick up on the conversation I was having with Harry, with Cliff as to how the Democrats should be pushing back. Hey, Cliff, Good to see you, man.
- [21:44]
Cliff Schechter
Hey man, thanks for having a fellow 22 year old on like two in a row. It's amazing.
- [21:49]
Jim Acosta
Exactly. Well, it's just us Gen Z kids, you know.
- [21:53]
Cliff Schechter
Right. I'm a nice 71er like you, so you know what I mean. We will have to go out and drink our sorrow.
- [22:00]
Jim Acosta
I know we should definitely do that. I know we're in this world now. It's sort of like I was talking about this the other day where I don't feel like we're in a left right world as much as we are in a pro democracy versus anti democracy world. And that, you know, that slices lots of different ways and it can go by age group. You know, somebody was saying earlier, I'm 60 years old and I don't trust the legacy media and you know, so I totally get where people are. And I'm glad, glad you and I are talking, Cliff, finally about all this because there are lots of different ways we can go. One is to bounce off of what Harry and I were talking about and how the Democratic Party has just, it's not, it's been. Well, it sucked in terms of reaching out on, on when it comes to new media and hitting that side of things. Your assessment of it?
- [22:47]
Cliff Schechter
Yeah, I mean the assessment is yes, sadly it's a lack of understanding that you need to constantly be messaging. This is something I've been screaming about for years, that you have to be willing to be aggressive and go after them and define the narrative. You know, look, I've used a less complimentary term. I've referred to corporate media. I never thought I'd say that 10 years ago, but as I saw, you know, starting with the coverage of the 2016 campaign and after. And obviously I always made sure to say there are some amazing exceptions. You were always one of those that I, that I spoke about. We're losing some of those exceptions, these amazing exceptions there. Of course we're bringing them over here and we need that. But yeah, when it comes to. Look, you can't just put out a press release or do a, or do a one time response to some awful thing Trump does, because he'll do something awful the next day or that night or maybe you have 10 minutes. Yeah, right. So AOC and Bernie going around the country, it's great. Cory Booker has tried to stay out there after the filibuster with Chris Van Hollen did. What I've said is you need to create spectacle. You need to sort of of. You know, these marches have been fantastic. The last two, you know, two. The last.
- [23:51]
Jim Acosta
Oh, incredible. Yeah.
- [23:53]
Cliff Schechter
Right. But, you know, we should have. I mean, I like the idea of the shadow cabinet. I yell. I said that a while back. I thought we should do that. But we also should have, you know, a coterie of folks who are talented. Your Jasmine Crockett, your Eric Swalwells, your people like that Adam shifts, whoever that should be ready at Congress, as far as I'm concerned, to every day to rebut the garbage. You're saying some folks outside the Supreme Court, legal experts, ready to rebut whatever Alito is, you know, whatever 14th century. Pardon it, but I'm just going to say rape apologist he's using in his next decision, like he used to overturn Roe. I mean, these are people that are not of good faith, and we need to be making that clear to Americans every day. And with new media, as you said, creatively.
- [24:37]
Jim Acosta
Yeah. And you were an ad writer for Joe Biden. I mean, messaging is so important. What's the messaging that the Democrats are getting right right now, and what are they doing wrong? I mean, one of the things that's come up in recent days, I talked a little bit about this with Harry is, you know, the politics of Kilmar, which to me, it's like, it's not about the politics of Kilmar. Yes. He may turn out to be a bad person. We don't know that, as a matter of fact. But he should have his day in court. He should have due process. That's the American way. That's how it should work. Work. And that's just doing what's right and not poll testing it or worrying your thoughts on this. And. And are there other examples where you think, okay, messaging good here, messaging shitty there?
- [25:22]
Cliff Schechter
Yeah, I love it on this show. You can say shitty.
- [25:25]
Jim Acosta
It's a. Yeah, I'm trying to do this less. I will say. I've been talking to. I talked to some relatives over Easter, and they're like, oh, you say the F word. Oh, you say. I'm like, well, you know, I just. That's people.
- [25:37]
Cliff Schechter
You're like, hey, I fucking say it. All right? I mean, what am I going to do?
- [25:40]
Jim Acosta
I usually say the F word. I usually save that for Friday. But all right, fuck it, it's Tuesday. I'll say it here, too.
- [25:46]
Cliff Schechter
All right. No, I mean, look, that's the thing, is that, you know, even you and I sitting here joking like this, there's so many ways now to connect, okay? And the problem with Democrats. So back in 2020, look, right. Wrote a bunch of ads. I think I was one of the folks. Certainly not just me. You kept pushing the other F word, fascist. Like we wanted Joe Biden to say it so badly. And finally, he referred to Trump as a semi fascist. I'm like, I'll take it. Right. We got it out there.
- [26:13]
Jim Acosta
I remember that.
- [26:14]
Cliff Schechter
Yeah, right. Because we're so reticent to sit. I mean, they're making up lies about. About abortion after birth as if that's even. I don't know what you would.
- [26:22]
Jim Acosta
You know, and I'm getting PTSD thinking about that one. That was one of my. I hated that one almost more than anything else. He would say this over and over, and he's just a pathological liar. I mean, people just need to understand. We're relearning this the second time around. He's a pathological liar. He will just lie because that's what he does.
- [26:39]
Cliff Schechter
Yes. It's all he does. And so, and you look, there are real world results. People forget a man walked into a Colorado Springs, you know, Planned Parenthood muttering about baby parts after Ted Cruz and the Republican debate, and they'd been talking about that. I mean, stochastic terrorism. I don't want to do that, but you can't let them accuse you of these kinds of things and not hit back hard. And again, it doesn't mean you don't do it traditionally, like with ads, like we did in 2020. But again, substacks growing here. Hugely. Look at what you've done here with a broadcast. I mean, we've got YouTube, we've got TikTok. Harry, you know, was just on. Who has a million followers there? We should be doing. You know, there should be constant creative responses. And then we even have the individuals. Jasmine Crockett. I mean, these people have shown they're so good at this.
- [27:24]
Jim Acosta
This.
- [27:24]
Cliff Schechter
Unshackle them, let them go and stop saying, you must stick to this. We have to be cautious. It's poll tested, as you said, people. You know, I hate to say it, but I think it was George W. Bush. You might have said people like strong and wrong. Well, why? About being strong and right, which is we are, you know, we believe in the United States of America. We believe in the Constitution, we believe that this, you believe this is the greatest country in the history of the world, you MAGA person, then how can you believe we can take somebody without due process and throw them into a gulag abroad? That's not America. And I don't care how it polls, but it turns out it seems to poll pretty well. Because if you saw that, that, you know, that, that town hall, which, with Chuck Grassley, I mean, he's barely a sentient being at this point, so I'm not sure he knew what side of the road he was on. But I'll lay off the old jokes, I'm old enough, it's okay. But, but I mean, in all seriousness, that looked like a MAGA crowd. And they, they just went after him for three minutes. They were pissed. One guy yelled at, he's like, I'm pissed. You know, I mean, yeah, I think you can bring out, if you bring out people's passion, if you lead them, you know, and not the kind of anger that's gonna, gonna, going to assault people, cause violence, but the kind of righteous anger about this is wrong. The immigration is wrong. You having your farm taken away from you, who voted for Donald Trump is wrong, you know, and, and connect it all to the greed of the billionaire class. Even millionaires are not worth talking about anymore because they don't give a crap about millionaires. They'll screw you too. It's literally a couple guys sitting at the top who are all talking about weirdos before or weirdos like Peter Thiel who wants to live forever and probably thinks that, you know, he'll take our parts to do it, you know, and become a cybernetic organism or something like the Terminator. And, and we need to make it clear how weird these people are. And they say stuff like George Soros, who's the billionaire who's meeting in back room who wasn't elected and planning out our economic lives, it wasn't George Soros.
- [29:14]
Jim Acosta
If you had some unelected billionaire richest guy in the world who was on the Democratic side like a George Soros, like, let's just say Joe Biden brought in George Soros and said, George, I want you to go through every federal agency and just cut the stuff that you want to cut. And while George Soros was there, he got his buddies at, I don't know, whatever left leaning tech company you can think of. And they're just Going to start hoovering up everybody's data. Washington would have been burned to the ground. January 6th would have looked like a picnic compared to that. They would have gone apeshit on the right.
- [29:47]
Cliff Schechter
Yes.
- [29:48]
Jim Acosta
And what's taking place right now, and I hate to say you hit the nail on the head earlier, and I think people just need to call it out and the media needs to get on board with this because they've just been tiptoeing through the tulips a little too much. Is that what we're seeing is fascist behavior? We are seeing fascism. And when the President of the United States puts out a truth social post who says, well, we. We can't have due process. We can't have trials for all these undocumented people because it would just take too long. That. I'm sorry, that is not. That is outside the American experience. That is not within the Constitution. And if we're not within the Constitution and we're moving in a far right direction and trying to justify scooping people off the streets and sending them to foreign prisons with no due process, I'm sorry, but that is what a fascist country does.
- [30:36]
Cliff Schechter
Yes. And it just is. No, you're. You're 100. Correct. And again, you know, say this is what Dwight Eisenhower and others led us to fight against in World War II. You can bring Republicans back, when the Republican Party had sane people in it, into this story and, and talk about, you know, the way you get to a message, you build a narrative arc. We all learn, you know, as the beings that we are, we learn by telling stories. For we know how to write for, you know, however many thousands of years. And we tell, we, we pass on stories. Tell a story. A story has a good guy, it has a bad guy. It tells you what they did wrong and how we can solve it. And from that, you know, we, we believe. For years you had. You believe in due process. Dwight Eisenhower believe that we even gave Nazis trials, you know, in Nuremberg. We believe that everyone deserved due process. And now we have the. This fascist little man, you know, due to his own weakness and insecurities, who is calling for what you mean, is he enriching himself from Ecuador? Probably. Is he. Is he doing it to excite his base? Probably. Is he doing it because he hates, I'll use a line from the late Val Kilmer, as you know, was just there. Hates the whole world for being born. Yes. That seems to be a problem for him, that he has to take out his insecurities on all of us. Well, fight back and point Out. You know, again, I don't mean to keep bringing up some of the same names, but. But when Jasmine Crockett the other day came up and she said he's calling Kilmar a criminal. Last I checked, Gilmore, Alberto Garcia has not been convicted of anything. Donald Trump's the criminal. Donald Trump's the one who's been convicted of crimes. Donald Trump is the one who's an adjudicated rapist. And there was the one mistake I thought. I thought Kamala's campaign did a great job at hitting back and trying to control the narrative, but every single day they should have been reminding Americans that he's a criminal, he's an adjudicated rapist, he's committed treason against the country with domestic terrorists. January 6th. Instead, we didn't talk about that stuff. Merrick Garland followed some norms that did us no good. And they were able to.
- [32:27]
Jim Acosta
And that's the other thing, too. I have to wonder, since you're on Team Biden, I mean, I recently spoke with a former Biden administration official and I'll just say this, this was a very senior level Biden official who said that there were lots of people inside the Biden White House, inside the Biden administration at high levels who were frustrated with Merrick Garland, with how long that took.
- [32:52]
Cliff Schechter
I mean, you have to be. Yeah, right. And, you know, and there are some people that have argued, oh, it was Roberts and whatever, he still could have appointed somebody. I mean, the fact that it took us, I think I made this comparison once. It took us the same amount of time to appoint independent prosecutor as it took Brazil to convict Bolsonaro. So they had done it within like a year and a half. And it took us a year and a half just to start looking. And the other thing I think that's incredibly important here, because it goes back to our conversation is, is we had Comey, you know, talk about opening, reopening an investigation to Hillary, what, a week before an election. We had Barr lie about the Mueller report. But we're going to follow norms and not tell the American people what happened on January 6th. Merrick Garland should have had a press conference. Every fucking. Pardon, whatever, I'm just going to say, every fucking week. Every fucking week. And if not more often, to tell people, here's. We can't tell you about ongoing cases, but here's who they are. Here are the domestic terrorists who attacked. Here are the domestic terrorists we've convicted. And use those words a lot because that's what.
- [33:50]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, it was. It was. So it was it was, you know, it was so, you know, delicately handled. And, you know, let's just be careful and contrast that with what's happening right now and with deep work. I mean, it's, it's kind of incredible. But the other thing that you mentioned, Cliff, that I think is hugely important and I think it's an opening for the Democrats, is to talk about the economy. I mean, just today there's a new Gallup poll. Gallup's yearly reading on Americans assessment of their personal finances shows a record high 53% now believing their situation is getting worse. This marks the first time in the trend dating back to 2001 that a majority have expressed financial pessimism. That is, according to Gallup, that's one of the gold standards of polling. And it goes back to maybe the town hall you were talking about with Chuck Grassley in that people are hopping mad right now and they are feeling it. They're feeling it acutely right now. And I don't know if the Democrats are hitting that as hard as they could.
- [34:47]
Cliff Schechter
No, I don't think so.
- [34:48]
Jim Acosta
Jasmin Crockett, maybe some others. But it seems to be there's a lot of financial insecurity right now. It's all basically created by Trump. I mean, with the exception of. Yes, inflation was a little too high, though it was trending in the right direction. The job picture was good. The stock market was in good shape. Things were. All Trump really had to do was to go play golf and do nothing.
- [35:08]
Cliff Schechter
Which he seems to like to do. And, you know, he should have enticed him and told him that we would kick his ball forward for him instead of him having to do it so he could win. He sent out those messages that he won every time.
- [35:19]
Jim Acosta
All the. We'll give him all the trophies from all of the Trump golf courses.
- [35:22]
Cliff Schechter
All the most beautiful trophies. All the. I mean, yeah, that's the.
- [35:26]
Jim Acosta
Vance could fumble them and break them, but that's.
- [35:28]
Cliff Schechter
Okay, listen, everything he. I don't want to make that.
- [35:31]
Jim Acosta
Well, let's not go. Let's not go.
- [35:32]
Cliff Schechter
Yeah. I'll say as somebody sitting in Cincinnati, Ohio, when you break the Ohio state troops. We could talk about that one. You know, I don't know if he should ever set foot in the state again. But, yeah, you know, you're, you're so correct about. Because here's the thing. It unites all of us right now, okay? We are all losing our, our IRAs or our 401ks by a man who purposely did it. DOGE is 80% of these job losses were DOGE. 80% of them were unnecessary. They were thrust upon us some crazy agenda. So show the, the, the contrast, which is messaging to Elon Musk over here wanting to buy up the parts and Peter Thiel and the rest of them or the rest of us, who doesn't, Whatever situation you're in, lost income, you know, lost jobs, lost farms. I mean, your workers aren't showing up anymore. They're scared of being deported. There's so many folks on the MAGA side that have lost work, too. It is a uniting message to say Donald Trump is feeding your income, your retirement, you know, your kids, school, college fund to his billionaire friends, because that's what's going on here when he's destroying his county. Whether it's on purpose or it's because he's just a fucking moron, I don't really care. And I think it's a little bit of both. But I do think that we need to make that message clear and we need to be very straightforward with people about it.
- [36:44]
Jim Acosta
And there's also hand wringing going on. And I don't want to name, I'll name names. Okay. California Governor Gavin Newsom apparently gave an interview to the Hill. He's accusing the Democratic Party at this court to help not yet performing a thorough autopsy on what went wrong in the November election. He did this exclusive sit down with the Hill and he says, quote, I don't know what the party is. I'm still struggling with that. What do you make of that? And I mean, Gavin, I should say Governor Newsom had started this podcast. He had, and I may be stirring up a shitstorm here, but, you know, he had Steve Bannon and some of these other people on, and they were not really aggressive interviews. I mean, if I had Steve Bannon on, Steve Bannon would know he was doing an interview with me. Me.
- [37:28]
Cliff Schechter
Yep. I just, I believe that.
- [37:30]
Jim Acosta
Yeah. What, what is, what's happening? What are your thoughts?
- [37:33]
Cliff Schechter
I, I, I mean, when you, we did this with Bannon and, and Charlie Kirk, of all people, if you want to go and talk to a conservative who believes in conservatism, you know, I kicked off my show on here every Thursday, which is, I guess I should plug it amped up with Cliff. She.
- [37:47]
Jim Acosta
Oh, do it. Yeah, please.
- [37:49]
Cliff Schechter
And we had Joe Walsh on, I had a conservative on who I disagree with lots of stuff, and yet we get along really well. You don't even have to have an anti Trump Trump, just maybe even one that has sort of been on the Fence, but somebody who's honest. When you go on with Charlie Kirk, who lies for a living, and Steve Bannon, who. Yes, what is. I don't get the point of that, and I don't care. I've been fair. I've been the same about this. I got people on the far. On the left angry at me when I used to criticize Bernie when he would attack the Democratic Party as corrupt. Well, if you're Gavin Newsom, just to prove to them. I always meant what I said. I went after Mansion and Cinema and now Fetterman and Gavin Newsom. I don't care what side you're on. You're part of our coalition. And you can be a conservative or you can be all the way over to socialist if you're willing to come together to defeat the other side. Don't give me this about. I don't know what Democrats. We know what we are. We need the message better. We need more investment in infrastructure. One of the reasons people like me and a lot of us end up at substack is it provides a lot of the infrastructure that there's no liberal billionaires are providing for us like they are. Yeah, that's so true for people on the right. So it's so true.
- [38:49]
Jim Acosta
True.
- [38:49]
Cliff Schechter
So we need to do more. Right, Jim? But. But it doesn't mean sitting there like bagging on your own part. I don't know what he thinks he's doing. I don't know what Fetterman thinks he's doing, but now I really don't like it.
- [39:01]
Jim Acosta
I think Governor Newsom is attempting to find sort of a Clintonian path to the nomination where he can, you know, every once in a while, sort of crap on the left and. And. And that sort of thing, and maybe score some brownie points here and there with moderate Democrats or. Or Democrats who have drifted over to Trump and so on. But I don't see how you can get through a primary process with that kind of a strategy, first of all. And then second of all, I just. It's sort of like, you know, this argument that people have in the media about, well, if we just could, you know, appeal to the Fox News viewers, we'll pull some of them over and we'll say, it's never gonna work. It's not gonna work. You're not gonna pull in maga. It's just not gonna work. Please, you know, stop trying to make Fetch happen. It ain't. It's just not gonna happen. Happen.
- [39:44]
Cliff Schechter
I love that reference, by the way, but your station Trying to like, did they. Do they really think your old station. I should say. And look, I got screen tested at one point. I was almost on cnn. I'll say.
- [39:53]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, I don't want to say anything bad about them. I, you know, I love those.
- [39:56]
Cliff Schechter
No, I understand. Well, I'll say bad. I can, I can help you there. No, but, but you're not gonna get these folks. If they leave Fox, it's for Newsmax. Oan or maybe one of Elon Musk's rockets or something to, to leave the planet, to go to someplace that, you know, like Moonraker type thing. Thing. Or maybe they can have the perfect race up in space. They're not going to cnn. They're not going to NBC. And I don't understand. Anybody who gets anything about branding doesn't get that at this point. So, you know, just. And you're, you're, you're so correct on this. Again, it's not. You said at the beginning, so I know we're coming toward the end. And so, you know, we can end where we began, which is. You said it's everybody in favor of democracy. Okay. I'm a center left Democrat. AOC is to the left of me. Me and did some things when she first came up that I didn't love. I love her now because she's a fighter. And if. And there's some people in the Democratic Party to the right of me who are moderators.
- [40:49]
Jim Acosta
She's kicking a lot of ass right now. I'll say. She's just kicking ass.
- [40:51]
Cliff Schechter
And that's what I want. Right. I don't care. Honestly, like, if you're anywhere, if you support our party and you're anywhere within that broad spectrum, that's all I want. I just want you to fight the other side.
- [41:03]
Jim Acosta
So. Well, Cliff, great to talk to you. You know, the way I describe it is the American way of life. And it's just, you know, we can talk about pro democracy and it's about the American way of life. And do you want that to go away? I mean, that to me is. That's it. That's the whole ball game. Do you want that to go away? Because if the president can get rid of due process for migrants, guess what? He can get rid of it for other classes of individuals. And just you wait and see. Just you wait and see. I mean, that is what people need to be concerned about, in my personal view. But, Cliff, great to talk to you. Let's keep doing this. Appreciate it.
- [41:33]
Cliff Schechter
Absolutely.
- [41:34]
Jim Acosta
We did a lot of phone tag and Email tag. And so we finally got there. We did it. The eagle has landed.
- [41:38]
Cliff Schechter
We knew we could work it out eventually. Jim. Jim, we could work it out.
- [41:41]
Jim Acosta
Good to see you.
- [41:41]
Cliff Schechter
Thanks, Jersey. Thank you for having me on. I appreciate it.
- [41:43]
Jim Acosta
You bet. Great to talk to you. That was a lot of fun. Appreciate it.
- [41:46]
Cliff Schechter
Yeah, great to talk to you, too.
- [41:47]
Jim Acosta
You can always tell when you're talking to the ad guys because they always have the best lines. All right, I'm going to bring in Elise Labet because I've made her wait too long. I love Elise. We're going to talk about Pete Hegseth, and I'm going to bring in Sean Civette, who has a lot of expertise in this area and that he worked at the National Security Council, so. Hi, Elise. How you doing? I'm doing great. I'm going to bring in Sean. I'm going to try to bring in Sean at the same time. I hope I can do this correctly. I'm getting the hang of this darn thing right here. Hopefully I'm not jinxing myself. Sean should be standing by. Let's see if Sean has done this. This is his first substack. It was Harry Sisson's first substack at the beginning of the show. Elise, you've done this with me for a few times. But Sean, who is hopefully going to pop up here, this is his first time on the show. Hey, Sean, how you doing?
- [42:40]
Sean Civette
Hey, good to be with you. Thanks for having me on. And good to see you both.
- [42:43]
Jim Acosta
Good to see you. Good to see you. And, Sean, I was just saying this is your first substack, and I think you just created an account so you could do this.
- [42:49]
Sean Civette
Exactly. That's exactly right. So I am new to substack and grateful for the opportunity to speak to all your listeners and readers out there and to start.
- [42:58]
Jim Acosta
And maybe it's. Yeah, no, I appreciate it. And maybe it's because I was off yesterday and I've been off for a few days, and I'm just. Just chomping at the bit and raring to go. But, you know, this. This Pete Hegseth signal gate situation, I mean, I just. I didn't think it was going to get any worse. I figured once he put it in the Signal chat and it was discussed by all these top officials who at some point should have been saying, hey, should we be doing this on signal? I would have thought that they would like the CIA director and the Secretary of State would have done that. But then he apparently did this with his own lawyer.
- [43:30]
Harry Sisson
His Own.
- [43:30]
Jim Acosta
And you would think the lawyer would say you shouldn't do that. But Sean. And I'll get Elise's take on this, just a moment. But Sean, you worked for the National Security Council as the spokesperson under Joe Biden. I can only imagine that your head would have exploded had this happened when Joe Biden was president.
- [43:47]
Sean Civette
Oh, absolutely. Head would have exploded. And this would have been a fireable offense for anyone, no matter who they were, whether they were the Secretary of defense, whether they were on the National Security Council staff. It's inconceivable that in any other administration this would have happened and that this type of person would still have his job, let alone as the Secretary of defense and the leader of US Military forces. What, what Pete Hegseth did by taking information and copying it from a top secret classified system and putting it on his personal phone and then sending it to people who did not have a need to know basis in an unclassified setting, it didn't just violate the law. It wasn't just reckless. It put the lives of American pilots who were about to undertake a very dangerous mission at stake. You know, a lot of people out there, they may not realize just how capable the Houthis are. This, you know, this militant group that we were bombing, but they have shot down five, I was reading in NBC the other day, they've shot down five unarmed US Planes drone reapers over Yemen in the last few weeks alone, let alone more planes over the last year. So they have capable anti aircraft capabilities here. They could have if they had known the Houthis or if the Houthis had known that, you know, U.S. pilots were about to fly over Yemen. They could have calibrated the routes. They could have fired anti aircraft missiles and we could be having a very different situation here about American casualties. And we are lucky that that did not happen in this case. But it really, since this is a pattern, it really begs the question, what other inappropriate conversations has Pete Hegseth and his team been having on signal and how much a risk is that to American service members going forward?
- [45:22]
Jim Acosta
It. Yeah, no question. And Elise, I mean, are you surprised that Pete Hexeth is still in the job as Defense Secretary? I mean, I suppose that's where we are right now, you know, in, in Trump 2.0 in that he, he's just not going to, he does not want to fire people. He does not want to throw a scalp to the Washington press Corps or the Democrats. And that might be holding this up more than anything. Oh, Lisa, can't hear you. No, still can't hear you. Maybe Elise needs to drop off and try again. Maybe. Hold on. Let's drop Elise. We'll bring her back in. Sean, this occasionally happens. This is the substack. I'm testing the bounds sometimes of the substack machine, as I like to call it.
- [46:18]
Sean Civette
Far from the first time anyone has ever had audio difficulties.
- [46:22]
Jim Acosta
I know, I know. And you've done lots of these hits. We flipped Elise over to this side. Elise, a little better. Maybe you might need to get a little closer to the phone, perhaps. Well, give us your take on Hegseth and then I'll tell you if it's working.
- [46:43]
Elise Labet
My feeling.
- [46:48]
Jim Acosta
No, come back. Come back. Okay. All right. We're going to fix this. I'll get Elise in a sec. But, Sean, I'm glad. I'm glad I have you here. When. When the White House says, and I think Parnell Hegseth spokesman has said, well, this is not classified information. You know, that to me is laughable. I mean, NBC reported on the general who apparently gave Hegseth this information that he then passed on to other people. And it was precise information.
- [47:21]
Sean Civette
Exactly. And I can tell you, having done the communications for about eight or nine different military campaigns against the Houthis, the airstrikes that we were conducting in 2024 against the Houthis, I can tell you that this type of information, the precise details of when planes will be taking off, what planes will be used, where those planes will be coming from, and where they'll be returning to. That information is always classified until after a military operation is completed. And it's classified for two very good reasons. One, you don't want your adversary to know that they're about to be struck. You don't want that to tip them off. You don't want them to go to ground and to take precautions so the mission is not a success. And two, you don't want your adversary to know where you're coming from and when you're going to hit them, so then they'll have a chance to shoot you down. And it defies logic to think that all of a sudden, for the first time, the Pentagon is going to stop classifying this kind of information about military operations before they take place. It's always classified. And so the idea that it wasn't in this particular instance, it's illogical, as you said. And it's clear that Pete Heath and his team, they've also lied about it since then. The COVID up has been just as bad as the crime here.
- [48:32]
Jim Acosta
I mean, the other thing too is if anybody else had done this under Pete Hegseth, that person would be in a lot of trouble right now. There were instances during the Biden administration where military personnel mishandled classified information. They were prosecuted.
- [48:49]
Sean Civette
Yeah, you're exactly right. If this is a fireable offense, this is something that on day one, when you are coming into a position in which you possess a top secret security clearance, you are given the 101 on how to handle that type of information, what not to do, and how to avoid it. It's inconceivable to me that the Secretary of Defense would not have gotten that training. I think what this shows is why it is really problematic to appoint people who have no relevant experience and no qualifications to a majorly important role as the Secretary of Defense, the leader of our armed forces, and the manager of more than 2 million employees. And if you look at the chaos that you alluded to that we're seeing in the Secretary of Defense, Defense's office with the firing of three of his senior aides, the one of his Chief of staff, it really begs the question, who is in charge now in the Secretary's office and how feebled are they? I mean, as they're on their back foot trying to defend from this scandal. And it actually makes me a little bit worried as an American about our own military readiness right now. Because God forbid, if something were to happen and someone were to try to take advantage of this, looking at the chaos that the Pentagon's experiencing, you really wonder if our military would be responding as quickly as it otherwise would be given the, you know, the chaos and the lack of competence in the Secretary of Defense's front office.
- [50:08]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, I mean, John Olliat, who was his spokesperson over at the Pentagon, just resigned and put out an op ed. I believe in Politico talking about the chaos at the Pentagon. And I think Caroline Levitt even misspoke or I don't know if she misspoke, but she gave an interview on Fox during which she said, the entire Pentagon is against Pete Hegseth right now. Which, I mean, if that's the case, if the entire Pentagon is against Pete Hexseth, he probably should not be serving as Defense Secretary. But I mean, it just goes to show you that, yes, there is chaos going on there.
- [50:40]
Sean Civette
Yeah, absolutely. Chaos and mismanagement. And that's a real concern because at any given moment, our adversaries could try to test our capabilities. We have tens of thousands of troops stationed around the world right now, and you have to worry about the US Military's own capabilities if the top of the chain of command is not rigorously competent as they should be. And it really is remarkable.
- [51:05]
Jim Acosta
I mean, you're being diplomatic. I mean, it's extraordinary that Pete Hegseth was ever confirmed in the first place. I mean, let's just call it as it should be called out. I mean, it's extraordinary that he's even in that job, given everything that came out during the confirmation process.
- [51:22]
Sean Civette
I was surprised myself that that many Republican senators voted to confirm him. He. And I think that was it Don Bacon in the House, the Republican who said it. Well, that he never thought that Pete Hegseth should have been in office. And this is showing exactly why. And just going back to the op ed that you mentioned, I mean, that is extraordinary. Even by Washington standards. I could not conceive in any other climate of a spokesperson, a top aide to a cabinet secretary serving less than a couple of months and on their way out the door, calling for their bosses firing and writing what a, you know, for lack of a better word, forgive my language, shit show it is in the Pentagon. I mean, that's in the first administration. It was anonymous at the New York Times. And we were all like, that is unbelievable. I can't believe a senior person would write an anonymous op ed in the New York Times.
- [52:09]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, and Trump just basically issued a fatwa on Miles Taylor the other day where he said, we're going to have a DOJ investigation and everything because Miles wrote an anonymous op ed in the New York Times. And here you have Pete Hegseth's spokesperson writing an op ed in Politico. I understand lease is. I think I'm going to try Elise one more time. Let's give Elise another try, because we love Elise. I have a soft spot in my heart for Elise, Sean. She's probably driven you nuts a couple of times asking you pesky questions. There's Elise. How we doing, Elise?
- [52:41]
Elise Labet
We're good. Better.
- [52:43]
Jim Acosta
That's better. Yes.
- [52:47]
Elise Labet
All right. My son Hex, he's gonna live. Don't want to attach this to the scandal. That original. It's a matter of time, you know? I mean, he's not gonna get another stuff.
- [53:06]
Jim Acosta
Okay, Sean. I'm gonna say so long as. Sean, I'm gonna attempt to see. Thanks, Sean. I'm gonna attempt to see if I just have a lease, if that will take care, Sean. So that. Thank you so much. Really great to have your expertise. Really appreciate it. We'll do it again soon. We'll do it Again soon. Sean was great. All right, Elise, it's just you and me now. I wonder if we were just testing the bounds of the substack machine a little too much there. It's a Tuesday. You never know. But the State Department is also embroiled in a lot of chaos right now. Marco Rubio just came out, the Secretary of State, with this whole reorganization plan for the State Department, and he is going to be cutting some very important programs. I was just reading this a little while ago, and it's extraordinary to me because these are very important programs that he's talking about cutting. And I'm just curious, you know, you covered the State Department for many, many years. Your thoughts on this and what possibly might come of this in the long run? I mean, the State Department has been in a lot of trouble and a lot of turmoil since Trump came back to office.
- [54:07]
Elise Labet
Okay, I have a lot of thoughts about it. Okay.
- [54:09]
Jim Acosta
Yeah.
- [54:10]
Elise Labet
Remember yesterday and over the weekend, there were some leaks to the New York Times, and they weren't, you know, Rubio called them fake news. These were documents that were floating around, a lot of proposals. What came out today was much less extreme. Okay, than what we thought. We thought they were gonna get rid of the Africa Bureau. We thought they were gonna get rid of the Democracy Bureau.
- [54:32]
Jim Acosta
Interesting.
- [54:33]
Elise Labet
Basically, it's more of a streamlined State Department. And when I look at the org chart and let's just tick off a few, elimination of 132 offices in about 700 positions, reducing staff by 15%. New Bureau of Emerging Threats, eliminating the whole idea of civilian security, democracy and human rights, criminal justice closing, you know, basically. And, you know, obviously, USAID is kaput. So the thing is, this reduces the State Department capacity to align with more of an America first thing. They're going to look at, you know, political kind of litmus tests for State Department employees when State Department and Foreign Service officers have been, you know, nonpartisan for all of time. But what I think is, if you read Marco Rubio's op ed, and I just want to be the one to note, not a lot of people may know that. Where did he put his op ed today? On Substack, the first State Department substack.
- [55:37]
Jim Acosta
Interesting.
- [55:38]
Elise Labet
At State Department, everybody.
- [55:40]
Jim Acosta
I don't know if I should feel good about that or what, but.
- [55:45]
Elise Labet
Oh.
- [55:45]
Jim Acosta
Boy, do I need to start packing my bags already. Anyway.
- [55:49]
Elise Labet
But what I think is it's, you know, he's talking about bloated, bureaucratic, talking about the leftists and all of that, but the org chart is not as Extreme. And I think that Marco Rubio is trying to use this kind of MAGA esque language to appeal to the base as a cover for a more streamlined state. And this is State Department reorganization. And talking to former State Department leadership, including Republicans, they think that as well. I mean, look, it's not great and it definitely is gonna reduce American footprint around the world. It's gonna curtail American diplomats and give them less running room. It's gonna make it unsafer for American citizens around the world.
- [56:36]
Jim Acosta
But are they gonna. But at least are they gonna close embassies? Because I had read and heard from one senior former diplomatic official who said that they were thinking about closing down the embassy in Luxembourg and, and places like that. Is that still being contemplated?
- [56:53]
Elise Labet
They're gonna close. I think they're gonna close some embassies. I think they're gonna close some consulates that are not.
- [56:58]
Jim Acosta
Wow.
- [57:00]
Elise Labet
Look, you know, for someone who covered the state department for 20 years, there is a lot of bloat. There is a lot of duplication of effort. There could be a lot of reform. Again, as so many other things. Jim, as you know, the. With what Doge was doing with usaid, you know, the implementation of it is often, you know, so ass backwards that it's not as bad as what they wanted to actually, which is some reforms. So I'm not someone who doesn't think reform in the State Department, there are a lot of, oh, sure, there is a way to kind of save money. But again, we need to discuss like, you know, State Department is 1% of the federal budget.
- [57:42]
Jim Acosta
It.
- [57:43]
Elise Labet
And what we get for that investment is so much more than pennies on the dollar. It's pennies. And the way that they're doing it, again, I think, is, again, we've said this so many bloody times, Jim. If President Trump had the wherewithal to come in and say, I want to make government more efficient, I want to save American taxpayers money, I'm going to make a bipartisan effort to really just, just like examine and really use our pennies wisely. I don't think he'd have the kind of resistance that this vitriolic, punitive way that they're doing it.
- [58:24]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, it's very performative, but the kind.
- [58:28]
Elise Labet
Of rhetoric behind it is what makes it even worse than it really is.
- [58:32]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, it's very performative because at least you and I both, that we covered Washington for a while. While the real money is not at the State Department, the real money is over at the Pentagon. The real money is in all These tax breaks that we can't afford for.
- [58:44]
Elise Labet
Remember what, that if you're going to cut the State Department budget, you better give me more ammunition because I'm going to need it.
- [58:53]
Jim Acosta
Bingo. That's exactly right. Elise, great to see you. Next time, we will get you and your audio working a whole lot better. But you are always great, Always great to talk to you. No, no, no. And I say the substack machine jokingly. I'm joshing when I do that. Sometimes it's just, you know, we don't know the cell phone stuff.
- [59:13]
Elise Labet
We have no idea on substack. I think we're, you know, either we're going to be a lot better or a lot worse. I don't know. But I think obviously they're. They know that they need to reach people and explain what they're doing. So maybe it's absolutely.
- [59:28]
Jim Acosta
No, I think it is, too. All right. Great to see you at least. Really appreciate it. Thanks so much. And I'm, for all people, anybody who wants to come on Substack is welcome. I don't speak on behalf of the folks here. I'm just this little old guy who has this little old show and I have my little old takes on things. And people are like, oh, you say the F word and oh, you say. And oh, you occasionally give your opinion. It's called we're democratizing the process. We're bringing the people in. We're giving you a little bit more than just the who, what, when, where. Sometimes you got to get the why. I did want to bring up a couple of things before I go. One is, and they both have to do with the press and victories for the press. This is according the Associated Press. A jury concluded Tuesday, that's today, that the New York Times did not libel former Alaska governor Sarah Palin for an error in a 2017 editorial that says she says damaged her reputation. The jury deliberated a little over two hours before reaching its verdict after lawyers for Palin and the newspaper delivered closing arguments at a Manhattan federal court civil trial that was in its second week. That is extremely good news for the New York Times. Sarah Palin was bringing a bogus lawsuit. This is all a part of the Trump effort, an effort on the right to try to silence the press, stifle the press, send chills through the press with the overuse of defamation lawsuits and so on. When you're a public figure, you have to expect that there are going to be stories written about you that you don't like. That is just how it works. And every so often, a mistake is made. And that's why newspapers have corrections. That's why networks and news organizations run corrections, because occasionally people make mistakes. It's not as though, and I bring this up all the time, it's not as though the New York Times and other news outlets are lying as much as Donald Trump is my God. Or the way he disparages people and demonizes people on a daily basis. Imagine if he was somehow subject to defamation lawsuits in the way that he tries to wield them as a weapon and hold them as a sword over people in the press. Imagine if people took all the stuff that he's called be crazy. Imagine if people who are on the receiving end of his lies and his bullshit were to sue him for all of that stuff, honestly. And so Sarah Palin, she tried to bring that kind of a bogus lawsuit against the New York Times and it was shut down. A jury ruled against her. The other thing I wanted to pass along is the Voice of America lives for now. A federal judge ordered the Trump administration to rehire all Voice of America, Radio Free Asia and Middle east broadcast network staff. For now. Judge said congressional funding must resume to the outlets which had been effectively shuttered by the administration. I believe that's also so an Associated Press report there. So excellent news on two fronts in the press. Finally, very quickly, I also want to just pass along my condolences for Pope Francis, for Catholics around the world, people of faith around the world. I was, you know, it affected me, I have to say, when I woke up yesterday morning and found out that Pope Francis had passed away. I had gotten the chance to cover him at the White House. I believe it was back in 2015 when he visited Obama at the White House. And the thing that I always loved about Pope Francis was the way he advocated for migrants and the way he tried to discourage this trend that has been happening around the world with right leaning governments to basically demonize migrants and migration as a political weapon. The Pope spoke out against that. He also also spoke out against discrimination against LGBTQ people. We know, of course, the Catholic Church. I'm not forgiving all of the things that the Catholic Church has done over the years and said and so on and their positions on things. But one of the things, and this is part of the reason why you're seeing people like Marjorie Taylor Greene and so on just make nasty, ugly comments following the Pope's death path. One of the reasons why you're seeing the right respond in the way that they have to the passing of Pope Francis, I think, is because the way he spoke was very much, in my view, the way that Jesus would approach the world in this day and age. The Pope made a name for himself in Argentina as a man of the people. He rode the subway way. He occasionally washed the feet of prisoners, as Jesus would. He talked about tolerance. He talked about not demonizing migrants, talked about not demonizing LGBTQ people. And forgive me if this is not sounding, you know, very profound or articulate or any of those things. I'm not a theologian or any of those things. Things. Now, not again. I'm not. I'm not forgiving the Catholic Church of all of the things that they've done over the years. There's no question about it. But I think the papacy of Pope Francis and I, you know, I. I was born into a Catholic family, and I don't want to get into all of that, but my Catholic roots go back hundreds of years. This was on the Finding youg Root show and so on. If you wanted to watch it, you can't. But the thing about Pope Francis is that, to me, he just modernized the Catholic Church in a very interesting way in that he tried to bring the teachings of Jesus back to the people. And again, I don't mean to sound like a pastor or any of those types of things, but it's just something that I think about when I think about Pope Francis, and I just think he had a positive impact on the world. And not every Pope's have had that kind of impact on the world. You know, people might not compare him to John Paul ii, who was, you know, along with Ronald Reagan, a very big warrior when it came to the crusade against communism on the world stage. And I think Pope Francis was fighting a different battle, and that was against hatred, and that was against intolerance, and that was against meanness and nastiness and just being nasty and mean towards migrants. And I just think that he under. He understood that so well, and he just had his finger on something that is so profound. And, you know, it made me think about when I heard he was. That he had passed and. And that the church was preparing for his funeral. I believe it's going to be taking place this Saturday. This funeral has been set for Saturday at 10am local time in St. Peter's Square. Just all of those thoughts came to mind. And again, I apologize if I'm not sounding the most profound here or ecumenically pure. Anyway, just those are my thoughts to wrap up the show. A shout out to Pope Francis and people who preach tolerance people who preach kindness, people who lead with tolerance and kindness in an increasingly mean and nasty world. Thank you. God bless Pope Francis, and thanks, everybody, for watching. Still reporting from Washington, I'm Jim Acosta. Have a good evening.