← The Jim Acosta Show
The Jim Acosta Show
No Kings 2 Coming Up Fast and Bolton Indicted with Ezra Levin and Larry Sabato
00:52:05
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- [00:00]
A
Foreign welcome to the Jim Acosta show, live from Charlottesville. We are just two days away from no Kings Day, and just a few hours from now, I'll be hosting a live event here at the University of Virginia with the one and only Michael Fanone. But joining me now to discuss the government shutdown, which is grinding on, and the big races for governor in Virginia, New Jersey, is Larry Sabato, my old friend with the University of Virginia center for Politics. And Larry, great to see you. It's been a little while. It's great to have you back.
- [00:34]
B
Well, it's wonderful to be back. And you should have introduced yourself as a Center for Politics scholar.
- [00:39]
A
That's true.
- [00:40]
B
You were on our scholar list, so congratulations.
- [00:42]
A
I, It's a big honor. I'm very proud of it. I, I now think of myself as a gentleman and a scholar, maybe more scholar.
- [00:49]
B
But you were both.
- [00:50]
C
Both.
- [00:51]
A
Yeah. But no, I, it's, it does mean a lot to me and I appreciate it, and I've always enjoyed our friendship, our conversation. Let's have another one here. I mean, Larry, there's, there's some new polling that shows more Americans blame Trump and the Republicans for the shutdown than the Democrats. Are you surprised by that? This is a new AP NORC poll, and it shows that something, 58%, roughly 6 in 10Americans, blame Trump and the Republicans, saying they have a great deal or quite a bit of responsibility for the shutdown. 54% say that about the Democrats, but more say that about the Republicans and Trump.
- [01:27]
B
Yeah, well, it does make sense since they control the Senate and the House and the White House and the Supreme Court. Let's quickly add the MAGA Supreme Court in. Now, look, we all know there's a special rule in the Senate and the, and in order to make everything right again and open up the government, they have to have seven or eight of the Democrats vote with them. But, you know, the point is the Republicans control the government. If Donald Trump can solve the Middle east problems, can't he bring Democrats and Republicans together? And the answer is no, he doesn't care. He really doesn't.
- [02:04]
A
No, that's true. And, and you hear people even in the establishment media will say, well, you know, Democrats are responsible for this because can't they come up with some votes to get this thing passed? My response to that is the Republicans are in charge of the Congress with that, with power comes responsibility. And so that makes you on the line for this, too. I mean, I, I don't understand that logic personally. But your sense of that Logic.
- [02:28]
B
Well, the logic is purely partisan. We live in an extremely partisan era. And pretty much any argument, even a really lame one, a really weak one, will sell to partisans. That's all they're looking for. They want an answer to give to their friends and relatives who ask.
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A
Yeah, no, it's true. And I do want to jump into these, these congressional or these gubernatorial races. I don't want to talk about the congressional balance of power, but the gubernatorial races, not only here in Virginia, but in New Jersey. I mean, Larry, this is right in your wheelhouse. And I, I, I know you in, in the center for Politics and your, and your crystal ball that you guys do there. I mean, you have, you know, opinions as to which polls are more reliable than others. But there's a Trafalgar Group poll that shows Spanberger up three points. That's a lot lower than where she was. This is Abigail Spanberger, the congressman who's now running for governor of Virginia, the Democrat. There was a Washington Post poll that showed her up 12 points back in September and an Emerson College poll that showed her up at 10 points around the same time period. Is this race tightening and is it because of this, this controversy surrounding Jay Jones, the, the guy who's running for attorney general in, in the middle of all this controversy over these violent texts?
- [03:44]
B
Well, first of all, Trafalgar is a conservative Republican pollster.
- [03:47]
A
Okay, there you go.
- [03:48]
B
That's very important for people to know now. They can be accurate. They were accurate four years ago with, you know, partisan pollsters tend to be accurate when their side wins.
- [03:58]
A
Yeah.
- [03:58]
B
Something I've noticed over the years. But no, I don't believe it's that close. I don't know how wide the lead is, and I think the lead has certainly been trimmed not by, quote, natural tightening, but by the idiotic scandals surrounding the Democratic nominee for Attorney general, Jay Jones. He is responsible for it. He has no one to blame but himself. He knew all these things in advance and thought somehow they wouldn't come out. The Republicans were release them at the moment when it was most damaging to the Democrats, when they couldn't replace him. There's no way to replace him under Virginia law.
- [04:33]
A
Right.
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B
So we get all that, but it still comes down to personal responsibility and the fact that he did all these things. Now, does that affect Spanberger? I, I certainly don't think it. The undertow would be enough to bring her to defeat or the lieutenant governor candidate either, but it certainly does make it more competitive and we'll see what happens with the One attorney general debate that's happening tonight. We normally don't even have AG debates, or at least I don't remember them.
- [05:02]
A
Yeah.
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B
And we have to watch that and see what happens.
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A
And, you know, I. One of the more remarkable ads in this race is really the Spanberger ad that goes right after whether Winsome Sears is just kind of a kook from the far right. And I want to play that ad and talk about it, because I. I think it's a very effective ad. I just want to get your take on it, but let's play it. Abigail Spanberger, candidate for governor. And I sponsored this ad. Mega Republican, Winsome Earl Sears. I am speaking. I am speaking.
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D
I am speaking.
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A
And when she speaks, it gets more disturbing. I can't support abortion. And she talks about violence against those who disagree with her.
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B
Murder is murder. And one day it's gonna be your.
- [05:43]
A
Turn talking about the murder of those.
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B
Who support abortion rights. If Sears said this, what else is out there?
- [05:48]
A
Winsome World. Sears so far right, she's wrong for Virginia. That is a very effective ad, I have to say. And I mean, Winsome Sears for a long time has been kind of regarded as sort of a fringe character in Virginia politics, and it's a little surprising to me that she's been made the Republican nominee for governor. Your thoughts on all of this? What do you think of that ad?
- [06:11]
C
What do you think?
- [06:12]
B
Well, it was interesting. The reason she got to be the nominee was because the only other credible statewide candidate, Jason Miares, decided to run for reelection as attorney general. I think he looked at the record and realized that Democrats normally win when there are Republican presidents, and particularly one as conservative and controversial as Donald Trump. He's lost Virginia three times, and he's no more popular today than he was in those three elections. That was a very good ad for many reasons. Right in the beginning, when she said, I am speaking, I'm speaking, ironically, she was being interrupted by a group of Democrats at a public event. And of course, what did she do with the one gubernatorial debate she interrupted Spanberger in every question. I've never seen anything like it. It was irritating. You do that two or three times. Okay. In the course of a debate. Every question. It was. It was really out of the ballpark. And so that's why that part works. But she's so far right, she's wrong. She is really hard. Right. There's just no question about it.
- [07:16]
A
Yeah. And let me ask you about New Jersey, because that race is a little tighter than, I think, the Virginia race or at least that's the conventional wisdom. There's a new poll out that shows, and this is in the New York Times talking about a Quinnipiac poll showing that. Mikey. Cheryl, the congresswoman from Virginia, excuse me, from New Jersey, is only up six points over Jack Cittarelli, who's the Republican nominee in New Jersey. I'm just wondering, I mean, these are bellwether races, are they not? Do you think these could get tight enough, or at least the New Jersey one could get tight enough where it might be a close call for the Democrats.
- [07:52]
B
It used to be that New Jersey was much more Democratic than Virginia. Now I actually think they're either on a par or Virginia's more Democratic than New Jersey. Trump moved way up in New Jersey. Yes, he lost by about six points, but he lost by triple that in the earlier election against Biden. So New Jersey has actually become more conservative, more Republican. And Citarelli, the Republican nominee, Jack Citarelli, almost won four years ago against the incumbent Democratic governor. Of course, Biden was in office. Biden was in office, and that made the incumbent Democrat more unpopular. So, look, I expect Sheryl to win, but I don't have enormous confidence in the prediction because the voters in that poll that you're citing, the 50%, Cheryl, the 44% C. If you look into the cross tabs, you'll see that the Republicans voters are considerably more enthusiastic than the Democratic voters are. Hey, turnout, turnout, turnout. And an off, off, off your election.
- [08:57]
A
Yeah. No, and because that, that leads me to this question is that, I mean, the Democrats should have a lot more wind at their backs, it seems to me, than they do right now politically. There are the polls that show that Democrats, I mean, in Congress, their approval is just not really where it should be, you know, given where, you know, Trump has been over the last nine months, which has just been kind of cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs. And, you know, I mean, just today there's a headline out that John Bolton might be next to be indicted. I mean, you have the ICE raids, you have the government shutdown. I mean, this should be. A lot of these races should be a cakewalk for the Democrats, including next year's midterms. But Democratic popularity is not in a good place, it seems to me, right now. Can you put your finger on why that is?
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B
Well, the leadership has done a terrible job. I mean, and also, look, they're not in control of anything. I get it. They can't make things happen. They can stop things, as they've done with the, with the shutdown. That is both parties involved in that, but they don't have the ability to really act. So I understand that. But the other part of it is Trump, in this second term, far more than in his first term, has solidified a large functioning base that will back him on absolutely anything. That base used to be mid-30s, now it's low-40s. And look, the reason he doesn't care that millions and millions of people are going to show up and demonstrate against him on Saturday in the no Kings protests all around the country is because he knows that's the other party's base.
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A
He.
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B
His base won't defect at all. I mean, he could tell them that he's got to leave for a month and go to Mars and they believe him and support him and contribute money to the Rep. You know that.
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A
Yeah. And your sense of the no Kings protest. I mean, I do think that this could be the beginning stages, and it may not even be the beginning stages. I mean, it's adolescent stages of a pretty significant political movement in this country. But it seems to me, getting back to what you're just saying a few moments ago about the Democratic leadership is that at the heart of the progressive base of the Democratic Party, there is a desire for new leadership, for change, for a new movement in this country. And I think no Kings is harnessing that energy. And I just. It seems to be the Democratic Party establishment just hasn't. They're not waking up to that reality.
- [11:23]
B
They don't use it well.
- [11:25]
A
They don't use.
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B
I agree with you. Look, I think. Was it 4 million? What was the total in June for the no Kings?
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A
Four million? Yeah, something like that.
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B
Four million. I, I expect far more millions this time. And I can tell, even around here now, this is a Democratic area, but there's going to be a, A big, big protest here. Actually, there's one tomorrow right here at UVA to protest Trump's compact, his corrupt education university compact that we haven't signed yet, thank goodness, but. But we're considering it, apparently. And other. Brown and MIT have said no. But anyway, on no Kings, this builds over time, and if it does, it will matter in the midterm elections because, again, you have to worry about turnout. And you can't have your partisans saying, I hate Trump, but I'm just not excited about our side. No, they have to say, I hate Trump, and if I don't love my side, I like my side a lot, and that's enough to get them out to vote.
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A
Yeah.
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B
All right.
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A
And you mentioned what's happening with these university compacts. What Trump has been doing. Larry, if you can, I know you have to get going soon, but if you can inform the viewers here what is going on. Because it seems to me at universities across the country, there is real concern, major fear and concern that the independence of the academic setting is really being threatened by this administration.
- [12:45]
B
The independence is being threatened. And so is the idea that you award federal money or for that matter, state money on the basis of merit. You, you demonstrate that you can do it better than others, and therefore the money will be well spent. So this is of great concern. This compact was sent out to nine universities, and uva, I'm sorry to say, was one of them. They've been very hard on uva, as you know.
- [13:08]
A
Right.
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B
Our president, because the Trump Justice Department didn't want him in. And essentially, that compact takes away our independence almost completely. It obliterates free speech even in the, in the classroom. Get this, Jim, if we sign this, we are not allowed to, quote, belittle conservatives. I tell people I'm in the belittling business. So are you.
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A
Belittling is what we do. That's what we do.
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B
That's what we do. And it's so much worse than that. A cap on international students, freezing tuition for five years when you have no idea what's going to happen in the world over the next five years. And this, the restriction, the same thing they complain about.
- [13:49]
A
They complain about speech being chilled, and that's exactly what they're doing.
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B
Yeah, it's the old line, free speech for me, but not for thee. And that's what this is all about. And we've got to fight it, not sign it.
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A
Yeah. Well, I hope that you do fight it. That would be in the spirit of Thomas Jefferson and the University of Virginia and, and of Larry Sabato, too. Larry, great to see. I know you got to go and I can't hold you up or your folks will get mad at me and they won't let me do my event at UVA tonight.
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B
So we're looking forward to.
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A
Great.
- [14:22]
B
Jim, thanks a million. We appreciate you doing this event tonight.
- [14:24]
A
Thanks.
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B
All right.
- [14:25]
A
It's a real honor. Thanks. Thanks again, Larry. Good to see you. That's the great Larry Sabato at the University of Virginia. And, you know, it is kind of remarkable. I, I remember, I'm old enough to remember as, as folks say, when conservatives would talk about local control over schools, states rights, local, local control over schools. And then look at what the Trump administration is trying to do to the University of Virginia and, and, and schools all over this country. They're trying to ram down the throats of academics, of administrators, of educators in a higher education setting what they want taught in the classroom, what they want going on. When it comes to what's happening on campus, I mean, how is that conservative? I mean, I just, you know, so I appreciate Larry working that in there because it's a very important issue. And from time to time, I shake my head at the end of these podcasts because I say, gosh, I wish we could get into this issue, or, gosh, I wish we can get into that issue. And Larry brought up a terrific issue that needs to be brought up, and that is the independence of our university systems. In just a little bit from now, we're going to be bringing in Ezra Levin from Indivisible, who's going to give us an update on what is happening with no Kings Day Part 2. We can show, if we can show the graphic, if we have the graphic for no Kings Day 2. I just want to give everybody a heads up. This is taking place on Saturday. Joy, Don and Jim are back. There's Joy Reed, there's Don Lemon, myself, and of course, there's King Trump there on the side wearing the crown, which is. It's kind of. That looks like a crown that you would get at Chuck E. Cheese or something, but he's wearing it. And it's no Kings Day 2.0. I'll be down on the National Mall. Joy and Don will be in their particular spots, and we're going to cover this thing, soup to nuts, folks, all day long. And you're going to want to tune in. It'll be on my YouTube, it'll be on Don's YouTube, it'll be on Joy's YouTube, and it'll be on all our substacks as well. So if you're a substacker, all you have to do is click on the sub stack for one of our accounts. You'll be able to watch it there. If you're a YouTuber, you can watch it by clicking on the YouTube pages for, for all of us. And so that it's going to be a great event. And the other thing I should do, sorry for the shameless plugs. I don't typically do this during the show. I try not to. I try to tell everybody it's not corporate media. There are no ads, no commercials. The other thing I want to point out is later on this evening, a programming note. The wonderful Mike Fanon and I will be here on the grounds of the University of Virginia. I'm not supposed to say campus. I was, I said campus one time and I was admonished the grounds of the University of Virginia for a live show. And Mike and I are going to talk about Trump's attempts to whitewash January 6th and all of the things he's been lying about lately, saying that Joe Biden's FBI was planning people on January 6, which to me sounds like he's just lost it, because obviously he was the President on January 6th. When you get to be 79 years old and you're thoroughly corrupt and you are trying to become a dictator, I guess there's just a lot of brain rot. So, you know, that is what's happening with Donald Trump. But in terms of what Mike and I are going to be doing, we're going to be having an excellent conversation on the grounds of EVA later on this evening. It's going to be at 7:00 Eastern, 4:00 clock Pacific. And so again, like I was saying, with joy and dime, if you want to watch it on my sub stack or Mike substack, you can do it there or on our YouTube pages. We're going to put it out there as well. So however you get these, these things, whatever is convenient for you, we want to make it as accessible as possible. I do want to point out, I, I usually, I do the commentary at the end of the show on what's on my mind. I want to do it now. Jim's take on what JD Vance said in response to the story in Politico about this private telegram chat, this chat room that was going on among young Republicans where they were praising Hitler and talking about gas chambers and saying derogatory things about blacks and minorities and you name it. And JD Vance was asked about this. Did you guys see this? J.D. vance, the Vice President of the United States, was asked about this, and he blew it off and said people basically need to get a life and get over it and let's watch it and listen. Let's listen to what he had to say.
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D
Grow up. I'm sorry? Focus on the real issues. Don't focus what on what kids say in group chats. But there's another angle to this that I just have to be honest about. I mean, I'm like an old guy at this point. I'm 41 years old. I have three kids. You know, I grew up in a different world, right? Where not most of what I. The stupid things that I did when I was a teenager and a young Adult, they're not on the Internet. Like, I'm going to tell my kids, especially my boys, don't put things on the Internet. Like, be careful with what you post. If you put something in a group chat, assume that some scumbag is going to leak it and in an effort to try to cause you harm or cause your family harm. But the reality is that kids do stupid things, especially young boys. They tell edgy, offensive jokes. Like, that's what kids do. And I really don't want us to grow up in a country where a kid telling a stupid joke, telling a very offensive, stupid joke is caused to ruin their lives. And at some point we're all going to have to say, enough of this bs. We're not going to allow the worst moment in a 21 year old's group chat to ruin a kid's life for the rest of time. That's just not okay. Like, we live in a digital world. This stuff is now etched in stone online. We're all going to have to say, you know what? No, no, we're not doing this. We're not canceling kids because they do something stupid in a group chat. And if I have to be the person who carries that message forward, I'm.
- [20:02]
A
Fine with I'm sorry. J.D. vance, you're the one that needs to grow up and maybe grow a pair. You know, being the Vice President of the United States means that sometimes you have to take on sacred cows. Being the President of the United States means sometimes you have to take on sacred cows. And I mean, I'm sorry, could, could these guys for once call out the racists in their party? J.D. vance, you work for a President of the United States who is a racist and says racist things all the time. And perhaps that's part of the reason why you're excusing this, because you are trying to be the person waiting in the wings to be the heir apparent to carry the mantle for Maga into the 28 election cycle. But I'm sorry, this is a leadership test and you failed. This is a moment for the Vice President of the United States to be a Vice President for all Americans and not excuse Hitler talk and gas chamber talk as just stupid jokes from kids. Give me a break. Give me a break. These were young Republicans working with state Republican parties scattered all over the country who were engaging in this kind of bullshit. And that was a bullshit answer from J.D. vance. You know, if I were Mrs. Vance, I'd kick him. I'd kick him to the sofa for the night. If you Know what I mean? And. And there's a through line in all of this, folks. There's a through line in all of this. The racist behavior, the racist actions of this administration. I want to show you a story in the New York Times that appeared just in the last 24 hours. There it is right there. Trump considers overhaul of refugee system that would favor white people. The proposal would transform a program aimed at helping the most vulnerable in the world into one that gives preference to mostly white people who say they are being persecuted. Talking about white South Africans and Europeans who oppose migration, according to documents obtained by the New York Times. I mean, it's just right there in black and white. Trump considers overhaul of refugee system that would favor white people. It ought to just. The headline ought to just be Trump favors white people. That should be the headline. And I guess that wouldn't be much of a headline coming from Donald Trump, but there it is in black and white. I mean, this is being considered inside the Trump administration right now. And the reason why I point this out is not just because of what J.D. vance said in this cowardly answer about the pro Hitler telegram chat that these young Republicans were involved in. It's because it ties back to something that took place between me and Stephen Miller back in August of 2017. We were in the White House briefing room, and Donald Trump and Stephen Miller were talking about overhauling the immigration system in this country. And they were going to do it in a way that favored migrants coming in from mostly white countries. And at that time, Stephen Miller and I went back and forth and I accused him. I said to him, it sounds like what you're trying to do is you're trying to control the ethnic and racial flow of people coming into the United States. That's what I said to him. Go back and look it up. Not going to bore everybody by playing that clip all over again. And Stephen Miller freaked out. People in MAGA freaked out. The White House freaked out. There were some in the media who freaked out. Turns out I was right. Turns out I was exactly right. And what I've been saying since 2017 about Donald Trump is exactly right. Ladies and gentlemen, I'm in Charlottesville, Virginia, right now. I'm about to host this town hall event with Mike Fanone a little bit later on this evening. This is the place where the kkk, where white supremacists, white nationalists and and MAGA supporters, went wild in a riot that resulted in the. In the death of Heather Heyer, a young lady who is among the counter protesters who would be here to this day if Donald Trump had some cojones and could control the racists in his party. But no, after, after that went down here in Charlottesville, he said that there were very fine people on both sides. And I remember I was there at Trump Tower with Donald Trump when he said there were very fine people on both sides. Matter of fact, I asked the question that precipitated that response when he said there were very fine people on both sides. And from that point forward, Donald Trump, people in the White House, people in maga, attempted to whitewash what took place that day, attempted to whitewash what Donald Trump said in reference to that day. They said, oh, he didn't, he didn't mean white supremacists. He wasn't talking about white supremacy. Very fine people on both sides in Charlottesville. On one side, you had the counter protesters who were protesting against the kkk. Yes, those people are very fine people. I agree. The counter protesters are very fine. The people on the other side, the kkk, the white nationalists, the guys in MAGA hats and so on, those are not the fine people. So I'm still trying to figure out to this day what, how Donald Trump and his apologists can explain away that comment. But there's a through line from all of this. The way Donald Trump and Stephen Miller address the issue of immigration, the way he tries. The way Donald Trump tries to cover up for his white nationalist supporters. And now JD Vance attempting to seize the mantle of maga, basically trying to push Donald Trump to the door and say, I'll be the new shepherd for this, this hate movement in America. It's wrong. And just this, this is another headline that just came out, it just came out in the last several days that a House Republican up on Capitol Hill found a swastika in his House. Congressman Dave Taylor has requested that the U.S. capitol Police investigate an American flag with a swastika found in his office. As a matter of fact, this was on Tuesday. And again, this is a message not just to Donald Trump and J.D. vance, but to the entire Republican Party. What are you doing? What kind of party are you running here? A racist white nationalist party? Is that what the Republican Party is essentially at right now? Is that who they are? Is that what they want to be about? If you don't want to be about that, if you don't want to be a racist white nationalist party, you have to call it out, Vice President Vance, you cannot say, oh, it's just stupid kids in a chat room on Telegram. That's not enough. There it is right there in Politico. An American flag altered to include an image of a swastika was found in Representative Dave Taylor's office. At what point does the Republican Party acknowledge that they have a problem? You have a problem, and Donald Trump obviously is not going to solve the problem. Donald Trump fans the flames of hatred in this country. I remember right after he came into office, the neo Nazis and the white nationalists saw this as a signal that this was their moment. And at that point, Donald Trump should have denounced those people. He's had time to do it over and over again. He's never done it, I mean, not in a way that would ever put it to rest. During that debate with Joe Biden, remember, he told the proud boys, stand back and stand by. This is who he is. This is his character. And the Vice President of the United States, J.D. vance, gets an opportunity to say, this is wrong. This is not right. The subscriber who is saying right now, 18 to 40 year olds are not kids. That's exactly right. These kids are supposed to be men by that point. Who's raising these, these racist white nationalist kids? Folks, you got to get a hold of your kids and tell them, this is not America. This is not who we are. And I wanted to take a moment to say that, J.D. vance, you blew it. You blew it. You had an opportunity to show real leadership, to take on a sacred cow, to take on an element of your party that you seem to think that you need in order to win elections, that Donald Trump seems to think he needs to win elections. Is it that important to you? Is power, Is seizing that mantle that important to you that you'll just hand off your political soul? Another subscriber said, denounce. He's cheerleading. He is cheerleading. It sounds like he's inviting them to, to sit on the sofa with. Disgraceful. The Vice President of the United States has a platform to denounce, to condemn, to use the, whatever power he has of his position in this government. To say, this is not right, this is. That there is another way. And it's sickening to me that, that he doesn't use it. And, and, and there, I'm sorry, there are connections to the immigration issue. The way that Stephen Miller and Donald Trump have unleashed ICE in places like Chicago is unreal. A federal judge just today said that these ICE officers in Chicago need to wear body cameras. That just happened earlier today. And this is. A New York Times federal judge in Chicago said on Thursday that she was profoundly concerned that federal agents might have violated a court order she had issued setting strict limits on their use of tear gas and requiring them to give protesters warnings to disperse. They're not giving warnings to disperse. They're arresting people who are mocking what they do. Dressed up in giraffe outfits outside of ICE facilities. They're tear gassing neighborhoods. Of course, they're way out of control. ICE has gone wild in Chicago. And why? Because they're trying to instill fear in migrants in this country. They're trying to send Latinos and Latinas in this country into a panic in this country. And it's not who we are. It's absolutely not who we are. But when people ask, is there hope? What can I do? Where can I turn? Folks, I have an answer for you. And to talk about that is my pal Ezra 11 with Indivisible. Ezra, great to see you. Big no Kings Day coming up on Saturday. I know you're getting stoked, you're getting pumped.
- [31:39]
C
Yeah.
- [31:39]
A
You're, you're taking your vitamins, you're eating your protein shakes, you're, you're doing your special exercises, all those things. But, yeah, I mean, there's, there's a lot of, there's a lot of reason for folks to feel depressed about the way things are going right now. I mean, I was just talking about the way J.D. vance was addressing this, this horrific telegram chat story. Just not showing leadership in this moment. People get very dejected and depressed over that kind of thing. But no Kings is an opportunity for people to unleash that energy where they want to do something, they want to contribute. Your thoughts.
- [32:14]
C
Look, if you're feeling depressed, you're paying attention. This regime is escalating. Since the last no Kings, they've escalated their attack on American cities. They're sending National Guard troops from red states into blue states. They're terrorizing American communities with a secret police force. They're ignoring the federal law. They're going after political opponents. They're preparing to use the tools of the executive branch to bring the hammer down. My God, how could you look at that and not feel like the whole world is collapsing in on you? That's part of the plan. That is what they are trying to do. The fear that you might feel, the sense of overwhelm that you feel is what authoritarian regimes do. This is one of the characteristics of an authoritarian regime, which is why I say our enemy is not Trump. It's not the regime. It's not Democrats that were trying to get in line. But for whatever reason, their opponents, from time to time, our enemy is cynicism and nihilism and fatalism. A sense that is too much, that they're too powerful, that we're too small, that there's no sense in fighting back. That is the real enemy. That's the real enemy. And because the regime does bad stuff on a daily basis, some of which we cannot stop, it feeds that enemy. So we've got to figure out a way to bust through and make people feel like, nuh, this guy's a unpopular lame duck president operating from a place of weakness and lashing out. And we've got the power. And, you know, a good way to do that, Jim. With the largest peaceful protest in modern American history. And that's what we have planned on Saturday.
- [33:43]
A
Love it. I mean, that. That is exactly what people need to hear right now. And I say it all the time. I, you know, for all the talk of Trump derangement Syndrome, the thing that worries me that I get concerned about is what I call Trump Depression syndrome. Yeah. That people get so down in the dumps. I talk about this all the time when I talk to groups. And so I'll bring it up tonight. I'm doing an event here in Charlottesville, but it's that people just give up. They say, I, it's over. We're done. You can't think that way.
- [34:09]
C
You can't think that way. And if you listen to the experts in authoritarianism, what they would say is, it is a mistake to feel like, well, we haven't stopped them and therefore we failed. That successful movements around the world that have pushed back against authoritarians, the way they judge whether they're having success is, one, are you bigger than you were before? Two, are you more unified than you were before? Three, are your tactics proliferating? Are you doing different stuff? And four, is the regime less popular than it was before? I can tell you we're headed in to the largest peaceful protest in modern American history. We had 6 million people out last time. We have 2,600 events all around the world with more RCPs than last time. We are more unified than we were before. Six months ago, the Democrats had surrendered to Republicans on a funding bill. Right now, they're standing strong. Our tactics are proliferating. Weeks ago, the regime tried to bully yet and push back. And we're doing this at a time when the regime has never been less popular. So we're bigger, we're more unified, we're doing more stuff, and the regime is weakening. I know it doesn't feel like sunshine and roses and flowers. And rainbows every day, day. But I'll tell you, the experts of an authoritarianism, the Timothy Snyders and the Heather Cox Richardsons and the Maria Steppens and the Erica Chenowitz, they see what we're doing. They're saying, yeah, more of that. That's what works.
- [35:33]
A
That's so true. And I was just talking with Ruth Ben Guillot yesterday on my show, and she's an expert in authoritarianism, wrote that great book on it and on, on called Strong Men. And you know, she said, first of all, that Trump is moving much faster than Vladimir Putin did when he came into power and the way he is trying to solidify things and establish sort of an autocratic regime. But she did also say that what's taking place with no kings and other grassroots organizing events, it's having the kind of momentum that she's really not seen in a very long time. That, and that this is historic what is taking place. And so people need to understand that you're not only going to go out there on Saturday to get your voice out there and to, and to make your feelings very plain and simple to the people here in Washington, but you're also being part of something that's history, history in the making.
- [36:26]
C
It is historic. And it depends on all of us. Look, I, I want people to get out of the mode of consuming media and thinking that's political participation. Look, it's good to be informed. But politics is what we do. It is what we do. And if we want a democracy that reflects us, we got to demand it. If we demand it, we win. Simple as that. There are more of us than there are of the authoritarians. It's not even close.
- [36:50]
A
And Ezra, I've got to ask you a couple of things. First of all, I'm a little worried. I'm wondering what you're thinking, you know, in terms of what the Trump administration might try to do, what his biggest supporters, people like Greg Abbott, might try to do. There's a story coming out of Dallas Fox Station. They're saying that Governor Abbott has ordered the deployment of personnel and tactical assets from the Texas Department of Public Safety and the Texas National Guard to Austin for what he calls a planned antifa linked demonstration. I'm a little worried that there's some instigating, some government sanctioned instigating that we may see take place on Saturday. What's the message? Because it seems to me that folks are going to have to exercise great restraint and that, you know, there may be some efforts to try to draw a spark from the crowd.
- [37:39]
C
That's right. They, they will try to do that. That's clearly what they're trying to do. We've seen Republican leaders like Ted Cruz or Mike Johnson or members of the regime try to smear what we're doing here. And come on. It is so ridiculous. Anybody who's been hands off protests or the no Kings protest or the Mayday protest this year, what you have felt there is joy, is this sense of people power. It's folks with their dogs and their kids and funny signs and chancy and laughing and dancing. It's a scene, Jim. It' place to be. And they are terrified of that, as any regime that is clinging to power while implementing unpopular policies would be terrified. They don't want mass groups of people peacefully exercising their First Amendment rights. I get it. They should be worried. That is a threat to their plan to consolidate power, and that's why we're going to do it. The single worst thing we could do is in response to threats against us for exercising our First Amendment rights, we say, okay, we're not going to exercise them. If we do that, we lose them. That's. That is a really bad move. So instead, what we have to do, we can't let them take our power. We can't let them take our joy. And we've got to prepare for what they try to instigate, which means we have held, gosh, I don't know how many safety and de escalation trainings over the past several weeks. If, if folks are worried and want to get Grounded, go to nokings.org look at the trainings that are there. We have trained tens of thousands of volunteers on safety and de escalation, thousands of marshals, safety marshals, and every single one of the 2600 events out there on the map have a safety lead and a safety plan. If they don't, they're off the map. It's a baseline requirement. I can't guarantee you that the regime is not going to pull anything. I think they, they might. And also it is our job in this moment to stand up peacefully but forcefully and say, look, we don't do kings in America and we have constitutional rights and we're going to exercise them.
- [39:34]
A
Yeah. I mean, Ezra, you know, when I saw Donald Trump putting it on Truth Social over the weekend, I think it was when he said, you know, Joe Biden, you know, the Biden FBI, they had plants in the crowd on January 6th and so on. Now, a lot of us wrote that off as, including myself, as another Sign that he is way over the hill, he's way past his prime, and he's losing it. But there's also a thing with Trump that's called projection.
- [39:57]
C
Yes.
- [39:58]
A
And I wonder if you saw that and thought, I wonder what. You know, those sick gears are turning in his head, and he's thinking, well, maybe we should plant some people in the crowd. Maybe we should try to do some stuff to stir things up. I. That I hate, you know, conspiracy theorists, but I thought about it.
- [40:16]
C
Would not be surprised in the least. I think you're right. Every accusation is. Is an admission from these folks. We see that again and again and again. But for us, then, the question is, what do we do? What do we do? And the answer is, we reassert our commitment to nonviolence and peaceful protest. We train ourselves to be prepared, and we show up in numbers that they just are not prepared for. I think there's quite a bit of malice coming from this regime, but there's also quite a bit of incompetence. They're just not prepared for what we're bringing, and we got to bring it. It's up to us to do it.
- [40:48]
A
Yeah. No, you're absolutely right. You know, Trump is his own worst enemy, I like to say, and part of the reason why is the sheer incompetence and the incompetent people that he has around him. The other thing that is the hallmark of kings and dictators and autocrats is going after their political enemies. There are some reports coming out that now John Bolton has been indicted. I mean, this. This, you know, one is something, I suppose, two is, you say, okay, meaning Comey and Letitia James. Now we have three. Now we have a pattern. I'm sorry, it's just out in the open now. And your thoughts on this? I mean, this, I think, highlights the need for a grassroots movement to rise up in this country and to let the powers that be known in Washington. We are not becoming a dictatorship. We're not becoming an autocracy where this is normalized. That's right. I think people are gonna be speaking out on this, too, on Saturday.
- [41:38]
C
That's right. Look, it's very troubling because it's really important for democracy for you to be able to disagree with the regime. It's important for there to be peaceful opposition that can remain peaceful opposition without being targeted by the regime. And it's clear that this. This president is using the tools of the executive branch to go after his political enemies, whether that's the DOJ or the irs. Or other institutions. And that's. That's not dangerous just for the folks being targeted. It's dangerous for our democratic system. We cannot have a democracy if that's how it works. So I think one of the things we got to do is show up. The other thing we need to do is demand from our leaders that they not just ask us to vote, but they promise that what comes next is an era of reform and accountability. We are going to take the House of Representatives, Jim. We're going to take it. We might take the Senate as well next year. And what I want to see in January of 2027 are the subpoenas flying. I want to see the hearings. I want to see the testimony, not just from the top dogs, but from anybody who said, well, I was just following orders. That's why I use the IRS to go after Trump's political enemies. That's why I was part of this DOJ investigation that was totally political and baseless. That's on you. You have responsibility in this moment. I'm telling you now, you will face consequences if you engage in illegal and unconstituted unconstitutional behavior. And I want to hear that from Representatives and senators as well, who are going to actually have the power to implement that era of accountability.
- [42:59]
A
Yeah, there has to be accountability on the horizon. And I wonder, Ezra, what you think about Democratic leadership? Are they the right people to, you know, are they the right players on the field to bring about that era of accountability if and when Democrats take the House, possibly the Senate next year?
- [43:16]
C
Well, I think we're going to learn a lot right now and in the coming days and weeks. So, six months ago, Chuck Schumer led a surrender of the Senate Democrats on the Republican bill. Today, they're dug in. They had the 10th vote on that Republican budget bill or funding bill today, and we've only lost the same three that we lost the first one. So Nevada Court has Masto, Maine King, Angus King, and Pennsylvania John Fetterman, but we haven't lost more. They are holding strong. I hope they're fighting back. I would say we have some green shoots on that front. We have some evidence that they're starting to actually act like a unified opposition party. And if they do, great, I cheer them on. I would vastly prefer to be cheerleading a unified opposition party. But we're also headed into primary season, we're going to have a lot of healthy debates about the direction of this party. And so far, over the last 11 months, I've seen this battle playing out between the rollover and play dead Democrats. And the fight back faction, and I believe the fight back faction is ascended now. We see that in the strategies they're currently implementing, but it's not dominant. It's not the only faction in the party. And I think we need a dominant fight back faction. That's what needs to be leading the party. And I'm down with whoever wants to lead that. I don't have a favorite. If somebody wants to rise to the occasion, I'm behind them. But I'm not going to accept failed leadership. And I don't think rank and file Dems and the voters in the primaries coming up are going to accept it either.
- [44:30]
A
Yeah. And I, and I wonder if just going after the Obamacare premiums is the right strategy. I mean, I get that it, it maybe polls well and they think, okay, we've got them over a barrel on this one and so on. But when I'm seeing these ICE raids, when I'm seeing, you know, people like John Bolton getting indicted after Comey and Letitia James, I'm seeing some warning signs and some alarm bells going off that, that I, I wish I would hear Democrats talk about more than they are right now. And maybe they do, maybe I just don't. Maybe I'm not seeing it. I, I think I'm pretty on online, as the kids say. But I, yeah, you're, you are right.
- [45:07]
C
There are some leaders. I think of a Christopher Murphy, I think of a Maxwell Frost, I think of a Jamie Raskin, Jasmine Crockett. There are leaders within the Democratic Party who are saying what you're saying. But you're also right that the Democratic Party is settled on what polls the best, which is the ACA tax credit extension and that. Look, I'm for that. 57% of MAGAs are for that. I'm glad that they're fighting for it. But if I could write whatever the demands would be, I would say don't invade and occupy American cities without the written consent of the governor and the mayor. Don't allow a secret police force to terrorize American communities while masked. Don't let the federal government run roughshod over the American public and the Congress by closing agencies that have been authorized by the legislative branch. There, there, there is a fighting posture that we're, we're edging up to, Jim. And this is why I say green shoots, but we're not quite there. There's one provision in this, in the set of Democratic demands that speaks to that, and that's the anti rescission and empowerment provision. That Democrats are demanding. This is what's allowing Donald Trump and Russell vote to treat the federal budget like their own personal piggy bank. And there are democratic demands. Say nuh. A deal's a deal. Don't just go back and change everything that we've talked about. And in order for us to sign on to this, we want these provisions. I think that's a step in the right direction. And I want to give credit where credit is due. That is more than just health care polling while that is pushing back against the regime. Is it enough? No. Does Donald Trump want to give it up also? No. So let's encourage that behavior and then let's demand more of it.
- [46:33]
A
Yeah, no, I hear you and you're so right on that, but I just would like to hear a little more poetry. You know, maybe I've just, I've watched too many old movies about politics and I just, you know, I would like us to aspire to be a country that's a bit more romantic about our democracy and what's at stake right now and just show a little bit more of a fighting spirit than what we've seen so far. And I think you're absolutely right. And I talked to Mark Warner, the senator from Virginia, yesterday, and he emphasized that, yes, they've gotten the message that perhaps they were not on message at the beginning of the administration. I was like, yeah, no kidding. And they seem to get it now. I just wonder if the urgency is there, if it, if it's ever going to be there with, with the players on the, with who we're seeing in front of the mics.
- [47:26]
C
Talk is cheap, Jim. Mark Warner is up for re election. He's facing a primary. We'll see if he gets a challenger. I don't know. But it's all well and good to have people who talk to talk. I like inspiring speeches as much as the next guy. I think that's a piece of it, but it's not the only thing. We need to see them use their leverage. And so I think we ought to be hard on our leaders in this moment and rally behind them if they are indeed using their leverage as they are now. But if they're not, we got it. We got to recognize we cannot afford to have a loser Democratic Party. We just can't. There's a. Would be authoritarian in the White House. They are running over 350 million Americans with these.
- [48:01]
A
Yeah, yeah. No, you're absolutely right. I, I think that's, that's, it's spot on. And I think they're starting to get the message. And you're part of the reason why they're getting the message. Ezra, best of luck to you on Saturday. Hope to see you out there. I don't know where you'll be. I see a Texas license plate behind you. Maybe that means you're on the road. I don't know where you are, but a secure, undisclosed location.
- [48:24]
C
I'm from rural Texas. I'll be out in D.C. but my recommendation to people around the country is it go to one near you. You do not have to drive hours. Hopefully. 90% of Americans, 90% of the 340 million Americans in this country live within an hour drive of their no Kings protest. That's nearest to them. Go there. Go to the nearest one. Be part of the community that's pushing back.
- [48:45]
A
All right, Ezra, great to see you, man. Best of luck on Saturday. Thanks so much. Stay safe.
- [48:49]
C
Appreciate you.
- [48:50]
A
All right. And as Ezra saying, everybody's going to be out there. You don't want to miss out. You know, why would you be planting your begonias? Or it's probably not the time you're to plant begonias. You're probably pulling your tomatoes out of the garden right now. It's middle of October, but you get my point. You don't want to miss out on what is going to be taking place on Saturday. It's going to be historic. And as I was mentioning earlier, shameless plug here. A soulful plug, you might say. Joy Reid, Don Lemon, and myself, we're going to be hosting our second edition of no Kings coverage. We did it back in June. It was wildly successful. It. It just destroyed everything in its wake, in its path. And I'm being a little hyperbolic there, but no kings. Day 2.0. Joy, Don and Jim are back, and there's Trump wearing the Burger King crown there. That's the only crown he's ever going to be allowed to wear. Is one from Burger King or Chuck E. Cheese's? If you get like a thousand tickets, I think that's the crown you get at Chuck E. Cheese's. That's why we have it on Donald Trump's head right there. But stay tuned for that coverage. In just a couple of hours from now, my buddy and I, Mike Fanone, will be talking to the kids here at the University of Virginia, and it's gonna be a live show. If you're in front of the substack machine or one of the other social media app machines like YouTube, something like that, you want to watch, go to our channels to watch. And we're going to be talking to the students, people in the community and taking questions from the audience. That's going to be a live edition of the Jim Acosta show at 7 o' clock Eastern, 4 Pacific. I always like to break it down via time zones, forgive me, central time zone and mountain time zone, but I feel like our friends on the west coast need a little nudge every now and then to say we haven't forgotten them. And that's very much true. All right. I'm going to cut things a little short today because I got to get ready for this thing coming up in a couple of hours. But really appreciate everybody tuning in today. My thanks to Larry Sabato, of course, my thanks to Ezra and the folks over at Indivisible. Don't forget no Kings Day 2 coming up on Saturday. I'll be out there reporting live on all of this and bringing it to you coming up this weekend. So stay tuned for that. But in the meantime, still reporting. I'm in Charlottesville, so I can't say from Washington, but still reporting. I'm Jim Acosta. I'll see you soon. Sam Sa.