Norm Eisen on Ed Martin's failed bid to become U.S. Attorney in DC, Chris Matthews on the new American Pope and celebrating Tara Setmayer's big win at the Webby's.

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Jim Acosta Show – May 8, 2025

Host: Jim Acosta
Guest Highlights:

• Norm Eisen: Legal Analyst
• Chris Matthews: TV News Legend
• Tara Setmayer: Seneca Project Founder and Webby Award Winner

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1. Trump’s Withdrawal of Ed Martin’s Nomination for U.S. Attorney in DC

Timestamp: [00:00 – 04:43]

Jim Acosta opens the episode by highlighting a significant political development: former President Donald Trump has withdrawn the nomination of Ed Martin for the position of U.S. Attorney in Washington, DC. Instead, Trump is reportedly considering Judge Jeanine Pirro of Fox News for the role. This move is portrayed as a victory for truth amidst Trump's ongoing attempts to undermine the January 6 events and his unfounded claims of a stolen 2020 election.

Norm Eisen's Insights:

• Integrity Over Partisanship: Eisen emphasizes that the Senate Republicans, including Senator Thom Tillis, opposed Martin’s nomination not due to partisan bias but because of Martin’s questionable associations and lack of prosecutorial experience. “[Ed Martin] is a conspiracy theorist and was completely unqualified to do his job,” Eisen asserts ([02:52]).

• Trump’s Diminishing Influence: He further comments on Trump’s declining poll numbers and his inability to adapt, predicting more setbacks for Trump unless there’s a significant change in strategy ([06:00]).

Notable Quote:

“The secret of the era of Trump is that the emperor has no clothes.” – Norm Eisen ([01:43])

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2. Discussion on Trump's Crypto Conflicts and Voice of America Battle

Timestamp: [07:11 – 13:15]

Jim Acosta and Norm Eisen delve into Trump's involvement in cryptocurrency, labeling it as a prime example of presidential conflict and corruption. Eisen critiques Trump's extensive crypto holdings and his proposed regulatory relaxations, highlighting the inherent conflicts of interest.

Key Points:

• Crypto Regulation Conflict: Eisen points out the paradox of Trump holding nearly 40% of his net worth in crypto while advocating for looser regulations that could benefit his investments. “[This is] the worst example of conflicts and corruption in the modern era for the presidency” ([11:14]).

• Voice of America Controversy: Eisen discusses efforts by Kari Lake and Donald Trump to undermine Voice of America, emphasizing the resilience of American global media. A recent D.C. circuit order threatens to restore funding to VOA, overriding Trump’s attempts to defund it.

Notable Quote:

“The courts have said, not so fast, Mr. Trump, you’re breaking the law.” – Norm Eisen ([10:46])

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3. The Election of Robert Prevost as the New American Pope, Leo XIV

Timestamp: [14:00 – 37:31]

The episode transitions to a live segment where Jim Acosta attempts to host Chris Matthews to discuss the unprecedented election of Robert Prevost as Pope Leo XIV, the first American to lead the Catholic Church. Despite initial technical difficulties, Matthews eventually joins to provide his perspective.

Chris Matthews’ Analysis:

• Historical Significance: Matthews underscores the rarity of an American Pope and compares Prevost’s election to iconic characters like Ralph Fiennes’s portrayal in “The Da Vinci Code,” highlighting the strategic and symbolic aspects of the selection.

• Progressive Catholic Alignment: He suggests that Pope Leo XIV aligns closely with progressive Catholic values, advocating for social programs and labor rights akin to Bernie Sanders’ policies. “[Robert Prevost] is a real...if you’re in any kind of Democrat, lowercase or uppercase, you’re going to like this Pope” ([29:02]).

Jim Acosta’s Observations:

• Catholic Church Dynamics: Acosta notes the potential impact of the Pope’s pro-migrant stance and progressive policies on the polarized American Catholic community. He references historical Catholic figures like JFK and Joe Biden to illustrate the diversity of Catholic political beliefs.

Notable Quotes:

“He is the first American to lead the Catholic Church.” – Jim Acosta ([20:30])

“This is the best for him. And I think in the end, Pope Francis was constrained by the curia...”, – Chris Matthews ([34:20])

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4. Celebrating Tara Setmayer’s Big Win at the Webby Awards

Timestamp: [37:31 – 50:02]

The finale of the episode celebrates Tara Setmayer’s triumph at the Webby Awards for her work with the Seneca Project, particularly highlighting the impactful "American Girl" advertisement.

Tara Setmayer’s Highlights:

• Grassroots Success: Setmayer attributes her success to grassroots efforts and the support of her community, emphasizing the importance of independent media in today’s landscape.

• Webby Awards Significance: She describes the Webbies as the “Oscars of social media,” underscoring the competitiveness of the awards and her team’s achievement against large entities like Disney and Universal Pictures.

Celebratory Moments:

• Five-Word Acceptance Speech: Setmayer shares the unique tradition of delivering a five-word acceptance speech and discusses potential creative options, engaging the audience for suggestions. “[...] Julia Louis Dreyfus’ five-word speech was ‘Listen to older women MFers’” ([47:18]).

Notable Quote:

“The righteous anger of the American people can change things.” – Tara Setmayer ([43:55])

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5. Additional Highlights and Closing Remarks

Timestamp: [38:35 – 50:02]

• Capitol Hill Coverage: Acosta recounts his efforts to question Republican lawmakers on the House’s recent vote to rename the Gulf of Mexico as the Gulf of America, portraying it as a futile and symbolic gesture influenced by Trump’s whims. He criticizes the lawmakers’ disengagement and highlights Congressman Chip Roy’s defensive stance ([48:26]).

• Future Content for Subscribers: Acosta teases exclusive content for paid subscribers, including a montage of interactions with Congress members who avoided engaging with him on the Gulf renaming bill.

Closing Thoughts:

• Resilience as a Theme: Throughout the episode, the recurring theme is resilience in the face of political turmoil. Acosta emphasizes the importance of maintaining truth and combating authoritarian tendencies with determination and grassroots support.

Final Quote:

“We will weather the shitstorm as happy warriors.” – Jim Acosta ([49:48])

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Key Takeaways

• Political Accountability: The withdrawal of Ed Martin’s nomination signifies a pushback against Trump’s influence within the GOP, highlighting internal conflicts and a demand for integrity.

• Historic Religious Leadership: The election of an American Pope marks a significant moment for the Catholic Church, potentially steering it towards more progressive and socially conscious policies.

• Independent Media’s Impact: Tara Setmayer’s success story underscores the power of grassroots movements and independent media in shaping public discourse and achieving recognition against larger organizations.

• Continued Resistance: The episode underscores a collective effort to resist misinformation, uphold democratic principles, and celebrate victories that reinforce truth and integrity.

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This comprehensive summary encapsulates the primary discussions and insights from "The Jim Acosta Show" episode released on May 8, 2025. It highlights the critical analysis of political maneuvers, historic religious developments, and the celebration of independent media achievements, providing listeners with a thorough understanding of the episode’s content.

Transcript

[Jim Acosta]

Welcome, everybody, to the Jim Acosta Show. It is Thursday. I'd like to call it Friday Eve here on the Jim Acosta Show. As you can see, the great Norm Eisen is with me. Norm, how are you?

[Norm Eisen]

Always better when I'm with you, Brother Jim.

[Jim Acosta]

Well, we have seen the white smoke rising from the Vatican. That means, yes, there is a new pope. This new pope is American. I will discuss that with TV news legend Chris Matthews in just a bit, unless Norm has some thoughts on that. But I was going to start off by saying score one for the truth. Despite Trump's attempts to whitewash what happened on January 6, despite his attempts to rewrite the history from that day, as he continues to insist the 2020 election was stolen from him, which was. It was not. He still does that. Trump's lies suffered a major defeat today. He withdrew the nomination of ed Martin for U.S. attorney here in Washington. That is where I want to begin. I just saw the NBC News alert just a few moments ago. Apparently he's considering Janine Pirro of Fox News. I think Saturday Night Live has called her Judge Box Wine. We can put that to the side. But Norm, your, your thoughts on this? I mean, it is, it is good news for the truth that Ed Barton is no longer under consideration.

[Norm Eisen]

I thought he might move Alina Haba in as the replacement, but he's evidently contemplating even lesser legal lights. You know, Jim, the secret of the era of Trump is that the emperor has no clothes.

[Jim Acosta]

Yes.

[Norm Eisen]

And there was such or, you know, on January 20th, it was like the wizard of Oz. And the past hundred days have pulled the curtain open. So what you saw was first he was exposed by all the litigation and then there's been a cascade of defiance. And the latest is his own party breaking with him in the Senate to say, no, we do not want, as the U.S. attorney in D.C. one of the most powerful U.S. attorney positions in the country. We don't want somebody who has fraternized with and embraced the most extreme anti Semite, somebody who's never been a prosecutor, somebody who has defended and even celebrated the Jan6 insurrectionists. That kind of a person is not suitable. And that comes from Trump's. That's not from the Democrats. That's from Trump's own party.

[Jim Acosta]

That's right.

[Norm Eisen]

So you know that the fear factor is much, much less than it was 100 plus days ago.

[Jim Acosta]

Well, and I'm not sure this is a profile encouraged moment for Thom Tillis, the senator from North Carolina who started this, but he does deserve some credit for saying I'm not going to support this person. Which kind of got this party started. It is still an illustration of the GOP's cowardice that somebody who praised an individual wearing a Hitler mustache, Ed Martin did, that he praised somebody who had a Hitler mustache. Was ever being considered for U.S. attorney. He is as bad as a nominee as Pete Hegstaff was for the Pentagon or Cash Patel over at the FBI. But Trump obviously didn't want to invest anything into this. He said, I'm very disappointed that I'm only one person. He says, I can only lift that little phone so many times in a day. So there you go.

[Norm Eisen]

You know, it must be the outstanding success of Pete Hedge Seth at the Pentagon that leads Trump to go back to the Fox News bench.

[Jim Acosta]

No kidding. Wow.

[Norm Eisen]

Another the chaos and instability and frankly, danger to the American people, to our allies. The United States military is the anchor of global stability. If you put a Fox News host there, what did you expect? It has been a mess. Now he's going to do the same in the U.S. attorney's office. Hey, make my day.

[Jim Acosta]

Well, and Pete Hegstaff.

[Norm Eisen]

But I think he's just fun. And with us, Jim, he knew we were going to come on the Jim Acosta show at 4 o' clock and so he just put that out there to have some fun with us.

[Jim Acosta]

He's a, he's a hate watcher. I think he's a secret hate watcher. He watches all the time. He doesn't want to admit it because that would be a win on the side of truth yet again. But I mean, Judge Jeanine Pirro. The only thing I can think of is that, you know, the box wine industry must be elated in all of this. I think that, you know, does she have any. I mean, I suppose she's, she's, Is she really a judge? I guess she's a judge. She was a judge. That's why she's on the Five.

[Norm Eisen]

Yeah. I don't think she was on anybody's short list for the United States Supreme Court. She may have, I'm not certain of her exact judicial credentials. It may have been traffic court or a slight one step above.

[Jim Acosta]

But Jesse Waters could still be the national security Advisor. I'm still rooting for Jesse to be. Yeah. Complete Fox.

[Norm Eisen]

And I just, you know, I do not think that using the cable television talking heads as your kitchen cabinet, I do not think that is wise. But to have them as your real cabinet is even worse. So we'll just have to see what happens. The amazing thing, if he does double down on the Ed Martin nomination with something even worse. It just will explain Donald Trump's calamitous decline in the polls. The first to go down was Elon Musk because he brought a chainsaw to government where he needed a scalpel. But then you saw Trump start to plummet. They knew Musk was an anchor, by the way. They made the Wisconsin Supreme Court a referendum, the people versus Musk, and it was a landslide. But then, you know, the anchor got wrapped around Donald Trump and he's at or busting through in some polls, the 40%. The 40% floor because the American people are not stupid. And Donald Trump is not able so far to adjust and pivot. So he's going to keep, he's going to keep plummeting and, you know, expect, unless he can turn things around, expect a lot more landslides.

[Jim Acosta]

And norm, when he says in response to Kristen Welker, I don't know when the question is asked, aren't you supposed to uphold the Constitution? You and I haven't had a chance to talk about this. There are some things we take seriously from Trump. There are some things we don't take seriously from Trump. But if you put those comments from Trump and the pattern of just thumbing his nose at the courts, being on this collision course with the judicial system in this country when it comes to migrants and so many other issues, issues that you've worked on, where do you put, where do you place this in terms of where you're concerned?

[Norm Eisen]

Well, I don't. First of all, there's a debate going on was when he says he doesn't know if he has to follow the Constitution. Was that ignorance or was it intentional? I think it was intentional. I think his lawyers over there in the White House, he's surrounded by a bunch of sycophants. And I think they're telling him that over 200 years ago, the seminal case of American jurisprudence, Marbury vs Madison, which established Article 1 passes the law, Congress, Article 2 of the Constitution, the executive president executes the laws, implements the laws, are if there's a dispute about the meaning of a law or its implementation.

[Tara Setmayer]

That'S for Article 3.

[Norm Eisen]

The judiciary, that's American checks and balances. Somebody in the White House is telling him, oh, no, you don't have to listen to Article one, Article three, you decide what the Constitution means.

[Jim Acosta]

Yes. Even though he took the oath of office. And yes, we, I've seen the comments. We're reminding us he did put his hand on the Bible, you know, you know, Trump in the Bible, not a good relationship there. It's never, you know, from.

[Norm Eisen]

I think he, I think he skipped the Bible on his second inauguration. I think he did because of the singe, the hand shaped singe mark.

[Jim Acosta]

They got a little too hot the.

[Norm Eisen]

First time, the first inauguration, they just did it without a Bible.

[Jim Acosta]

Second time he was worried about that scene in Raiders of the Lost Ark where the ark opens up and all the laser beams come out. But you know, Norm, the other thing I got to ask you about because you've been working on this Voice of America issue, you help keep Voice of America alive. Now they're Carrie Lake is trying to ram oan down the throats of the people over there at Voice of America. It's just a hot mess.

[Norm Eisen]

That is, that is so shocking. But the D.C. circuit had had another thought about this. We just got a big order overnight. In the group of cases where I represent journalism organization Reporters Without Borders, I have labor clients and the D.C. circuit ordered that the payment spigot relating to U.S. american global media abroad, all of these associated outlets, that those payments have to be turned back on. So Kari Lake and Donald Trump's attempt to destroy American global media not working. As has happened over 125 times. Jim, the courts have said, not so fast, Mr. Trump, you're breaking the law.

[Jim Acosta]

I'm so glad you've been on the case, Norm. I mean on, on many cases in this regard and more than 60 at this point. Unbelievable.

[Norm Eisen]

We've brought or, we've brought or worked on or represented witnesses or others in more than 60 cases at this point.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah, I think he's hate watching you too, Norm. I mean, and the other thing I saw, I saw you on the TV the other night talking about Trump's crypto scams, which has been an obsession of mine for several days. I talked to Chris Murphy about this a couple of days ago. Yeah, this has been sort of an unofficial Trump corruption week on my program because I've been highlighting all the different ways he's been trying to scam Americans. And you know, the Trump crypto scam might take the cake for all of them. I mean, what do you think?

[Norm Eisen]

I believe it's the worst example of conflicts and corruption in the modern era for the presidency. Here you have President Trump and my colleagues at Democracy Defenders Action and I issued a big report that's gotten a fair amount of attention, really going deep, doing the analysis. Here you have a president, almost 40% of his net worth is in crypto and he's going to regulate crypto. Loosen the crypto rules.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah.

[Norm Eisen]

And he's going to take in foreign investment relating to his crypto. I mean, it's a double whammy of conflict. And the American people, again, they don't like getting even. The crypto industry, which was so pro Trump initially saying, you're dragging down the reputation. Can you imagine? This is a currency that is used, it's a currency that's used for drug transactions.

[Jim Acosta]

Oh, yeah.

[Norm Eisen]

Human trafficking, money laundering. And like they're complaining. You're ruining our reputation.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah, well, they're not lying.

[Norm Eisen]

There's legitimate, many, many more legitimate uses for crypto. And I actually support digital currencies. They have their place in the financial marketplace of the 21st century, of course, but they've got to be properly regulated. There was some news today. The Republicans tried to jam through a crypto bill in the Senate. The Democrats said, wait a minute. Even a couple Republicans, Wait a minute. If we don't have tough rules, we don't establish strong standards. The Democrats want restrictions on Trump's crypto conflicts. We're not going to pass this bill. So the Senate is holding strong, as they should, on Trump's crypto conflicts.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah, Norm, I just finally, I, I have to say, I, this may be the first time, maybe the second time you and I have been live together since that very first time you brought me into the substack machine. And so I, I, I, I once again have to thank you for making me do that. You gave me the nudge. I was like the little kid on the side of the pool. You were like the big brother who said, and just pushed me into the deep end. So I would start swimming and I.

[Norm Eisen]

Think I would have, I kind of did a preemptive strike with our former home, cnn, because when you left, I surely would have walked out behind you, but I was a step ahead of you. And, you know, I still maintain good relationships there. I still go on some of the shows, I talk to some of the people. But, yeah, I love them.

[Jim Acosta]

I love them.

[Norm Eisen]

I love, I love almost all of them. But, but cables, Cables lost. I do, there's wonderful.

[Jim Acosta]

I have a lot of friends, as you know.

[Norm Eisen]

Yeah, ton of friends.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah.

[Norm Eisen]

But as you know, you're the one who taught me that in an autocracy, in an authoritarian regime. You took this on in the White House briefing room. You saw it firsthand. They yanked your press pass first. You know, the dictatorial aspirations, you gotta be truthful, not neutral. And that, as Christiane Amanpour says, our former Colleague. And that's what you do. Here is substack. I love it. And friends, stay tuned. Jim and I are friends on the screen and off the screen, and we're always thinking about other things we can do together.

[Jim Acosta]

We've been plotting a little bit. We don't want to give away anything just yet, but we've been plotting a little bit. We'll keep that conversation going normal and we'll just make that a tease for everybody else watching, if I may use a cable news term there. And you're right. There are not two sides to a story when it's a matter of right versus wrong. And Norm Eisen knows that better than anybody. Norm, great to see you.

[Norm Eisen]

Good to see you, Jim.

[Jim Acosta]

Thank you, my friend. Thanks so much. All right. That's the great Norm Eisen. And you know what is wonderful about Norm? I'm going to bring in Chris Matthews, and I think of Chris Matthews the same way, too. But Norm is the ultimate happy warrior, isn't he? He is just the ultimate happy warrior. You cannot, you know, you can't just get the guy down. And that is the way to be in this day and age. If I may humbly put that assertion forward, that a happy warrior is the best warrior in this time. And when we're fighting authoritarianism and autocracy and so on, that is what you need. You need that sort of a thing. Now, I was going to have Chris Matthews come on in just a moment and talk about the new American Pope. It says that he is not available at the moment, so we're going to keep working on that. Chris Matthews, apparently not available. I'm texting my producer Matt, my industrious, hard working producer Matt, about that. Let's give it a try one more time and see how Chris is doing. Big news today about the Pope. This is just fascinating. And again, it says, Chris not available. But I'll just read you a little bit about how the Pope announcement came down today. Of course, we all saw the white smoke earlier today. This is according to the Washington Post, Robert Prevost, an American cardinal was elected Pope taking the name of Leo xiv. He is the first American to lead the Catholic Church. Cheers erupted as he stepped onto a balcony overlooking St Peter's Square in the Vatican to address the crowd that had gathered and more than a billion Catholics around the world. The new Pope is viewed as close to Francis. This is very important, folks. He is viewed as close to Pope Francis, the late Pope Francis, and was appointed to many important roles by the last pontiff. Those views on some issues that were close to Francis are not entirely clear. But the Washington Post did quote one expert as saying, quote, that Prevost is quote, right out of Francis playbook. Now I'm getting a notification. I'm just informing the substack machine that I'm getting a notification that Chris Matthews is not available. Hopefully he will be available shortly. My producer Matt says he should be. And so hopefully we can bring him in because he is so much fun to talk to and would be terrific on this subject. So we're just going to let that percolate there. I should note Maga is not very happy about the Pope being announced today that Robert Prefast is Prevost, I should say, is going to be the new Pope. Apparently Megyn Kelly tweeted this earlier today. She was hoping that this was some 20 year old running the Pope's Twitter account when he was a cardinal and sounding critical of Trump and J.D. vance. Back in February, an account on X that appears to be the cardinals tweeted out, JD Vance is wrong. Jesus does not ask us to rank our love for others. Bit of a theological disagreement going on between this new Pope and J.D. vance back then. That was back in February, I believe, when Prevost put that out there. It looks like I'm trying. Looks like Chris Matthews may be coming in now. Chris, are you there? Oh, he may have a. He may have a shaky Internet connection. All right, Chris, hang on. Stand by. I'm going to try one more time to bring in. Hang on, Chris. His connection is not solid. Let's try this one more time. Let's see if I can get Chris Matthews on. My producer is telling me he's on, but I didn't see him there. So we're going to try it again. Let's just, you know, we'll give it a few moments here. We're testing the limits sometimes of the substack machine and perhaps there are some higher forces at work here. No, that didn't work. All right, hang on here. We're hoping for some divine intervention, if I could put it that way, that Chris Matthews will be on in just a moment here. Let's see. Substack machine is spinning furiously. There's the Chris Matthews logo, which is always good. That's a good sign if we're seeing the Chris Matthews logo and we want the great Chris Matthews to join us. The other thing I should note is apparently Steve Bannon was on Piers Morgan the other night raising questions with Piers Morgan the other day about Prevost. Chris, are you There.

[Chris Matthews]

I'm on.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah, okay, I hear you. I don't see you.

[Chris Matthews]

I got a big picture of me looking at me.

[Jim Acosta]

Chris, I'm sure you could see me, but. Oh, there he is. There's the great Chris Matthews right there. How are you, Chris? I'm great.

[Chris Matthews]

It's a happy day for me. Very happy.

[Jim Acosta]

Why are you happy?

[Chris Matthews]

The new Pope?

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah.

[Chris Matthews]

Well, first of all, he's an American, which a lot of people thought, and I've been studying this. I had. I had.

[Jim Acosta]

Chris, you're one of my favorite people in the whole world, but your connection is not at all usable. We can't hear you at all. We might have to workshop this thing. No, I don't think I've got. Chris. Chris, if you might need to drop the WI fi and just use your cell service, that might be the case. No, I lost Chris. Chris, if you can hear me and if you are listening to the program, turn off your WI fi and just use. Use your cell phone. Cell phone service. That should fix the problem. We'll try. We'll try with Chris one more time. You know, we. Well, if I had some rosary beads, I would certainly rub them right now, because I'd love to get Chris on. Sometimes it just. It. It's a little too taxing for the substack machine, and. And it. It just doesn't work. Yeah, well, as I was saying, you know, Trump. Trump came out and said he was happy that. That the new Pope is American and so on, but I'm waiting for Trump to, you know, to get together with some of his fellow MAGA acolytes, people like Steve Bannon and Megyn Kelly, to hear what they have to say, because there are some corners of the far right right now that are not happy about this. And so you have to wonder how long Trump's going to be, you know, having an even keel about this. Oh, boy. Oh, boy. All right, Chris. I don't know, but I love Chris to death. I just don't know if. If we can get his connection to work. It's. It's. It's really too bad, because Chris was, as you heard him say, I think just shortly, he was excited about this, being a Catholic himself. Well, let's see here. Nope, I'm going to see. I think Tara set. Meyer was going to be ready for me around now. Let's see if Tara is available and ready to go. And if I can get back to the wonderful Chris Matthews, I will go back to him. I'm a little worried that Chris may need some tech support. And I don't know if Tara is there as well. I might be a little early for Tara. Well, folks, this happens sometimes. It's, it's live, I would say live television, but we're doing live television through a cell phone and sometimes these connections just don't work. I don't know if Tara is actually quite ready yet. She was telling me she was going to be ready around 4:30. So unfortunately, I'm going to run through a few more headlines here and if I get some kind of a signal that Chris is ready, we'll do it. But, you know, here are some of the other things I was planning on talking about. And I do want to mention this because this is something that perhaps you saw this earlier today, the House of Representatives voted for bill to make the Gulf of America the official name of the Gulf of Mexico, at least according to the United States. This is one of these cockamamie bills that got introduced in the House of Representatives because the Republican Party can't do much right now other than be a rubber stamp for Donald Trump. And so earlier today, the House of Representatives, of course, along largely along party lines, voted to pass this bill to call the Gulf of Mexico the Gulf of America. Now, the only reason why I bring this up because there's so many, there are so many other more important things going on and they should be working on more important things. And to illustrate that point, my producer Matt and I went up to the Hill today and tried to talk to some of these Republican lawmakers to ask them, why did you waste your time voting to rename the Gulf of Mexico the Gulf of America? And we didn't get a whole lot of willing participants, I'll put it that way. A lot of these Republican lawmakers were running in the opposite direction. They were doing the thing where they, they put the cell phone up to their ear. As soon as they saw me coming up, they put the cell phone up to their ear and walk away. I did have a very interesting exchange with Congressman Chip Roy of Texas. And just a little teaser here, I was going to mention this at the end of the program, but since I'm trying to tap dance here for time, hoping that we can get either Tara Sepmeyer, Chris Matthews on the program. We, we got into it a little bit with Chip Roy and he was defending voting for it and was trying to, I guess, you know, if you, you want to call it this, sort of change the subject. And so he was bringing up the border, he's bringing up all these other things And I, you know, I asked him, why are you wasting your time with this foolishness? Anyway, long story short is we have that video. It's. It's of me, you know, basically going up to these Republican members of Congress to try to get some answers out of them. We're going to put together a montage of that, and we are going to put it on for our paid subscribers later on this year. I think that's the great Chris Matthews right there, right now. There he is. How are you, sir?

[Chris Matthews]

I'm great, Jim. Thank you so much.

[Jim Acosta]

No, no, that's okay. I call it the substack machine because, you know, it is a machine that we are building. It's like the plane that we're building mid flight. And, you know, sometimes the connection is there, sometimes the connection is not there. But, Chris, welcome back. Great to see you. And you were saying when we were getting going there, I could just make out what you were saying, that you were happy about this announcement that the new Pope will be an American for the first time. Incredible.

[Chris Matthews]

Yeah. All the discussion for weeks now has been since Francis died that it would be probably an Italian pope or possibly somebody from the Philippines. The dreaded notion is it would be somebody from Africa and very conservative. But it didn't happen. It was this guy. It was right out of the conclave. I mean, this guy, I think, was directing traffic over there. And he's an American, so he's spoken so unlike Trump today. He spoke in Italian the whole time. And I thought, what a way of saying of connecting us to Europe, the old country, to many people. And he made us feel like we're part of that world and they're part of our world. And it was a communion of saints, if you will, was great. And he didn't. He'll come here, he'll speak with an American accent, probably a Chicago accent. We'll go, wow. We're going to go, wow.

[Jim Acosta]

Apparently, he's a Cubs fan.

[Chris Matthews]

He's a Cubs fan. He's also speaking as a. As a Democrat, Pope Leo the 14th. That's a direct. In line with Leo the 13th. Ram Navaram, the first Pope to speak about the Industrial Revolution and the need to avoid socialism and unbridled capitalism. He was for labor unions, collective bargaining. He was for a living wage, like Bernie Sanders, a living wage. He was for a lot of the social programs that the New Deal brought in in the 1930s, way ahead of time. He's a real. I think you have to say, if you're in any kind of Democrat, lowercase or uppercase? You're going to like this Pope because he stands for what you stand for. It's really fascinating the way he picked. And they have to pick it in a matter of minutes, really. Once he gets elected, the white smoke is up and he's got the speech ready. This is faster than the Academy Awards. I mean, he has to have that long speech ready. And he had a name ready all the way. He had Leo ready the other 14th. I think it's a great time. As again, for anybody who calls himself a Democrat in the world, this guy is somewhere with you.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah, well. And Chris, you know, you raised such a great point, and it's something that maybe lost on some of the younger viewers out there, is that there is such a thing as a progressive Catholic. We used to have them in this country. Well, of course, John F. Kennedy, the first Catholic president. Joe Biden, Catholic. And that's been lost because of the abortion issue. It's become so polarized. And there are a lot of American Catholics who wish the Pope would be Pope Francis. I should clarify that. He had been more conservative, but that's not always the case in the Catholic Church.

[Chris Matthews]

You know, it's a little unfair the way our editorial writers and publicists generally write that. Robert Casey, the governor of Pennsylvania, he was an out and out liberal on every issue except abortion. He was totally a liberal for child health and welfare. He did all those programs up there. Very progressive guy. But yet he was tagged as a conservative because he was anti abortion. There's a few people like that. I think his son, who got defeated in the last election.

[Jim Acosta]

That's right.

[Chris Matthews]

He was more moderate on abortion. No, I think that's. The Catholic Church does that. You're going to know when you go to the. Into the pews in Catholic religion. Irish guys, Italian guys, Polish people. The usual notion of what a Catholic is. A lot about half them are MAGA people. They just are. I got a couple brothers like this. I got to live with them. But I. Except one of my brothers is breaking with Trump on the issue of Ukraine. He just says we got to be for the freedom of Ukraine. And this Russia thing is awful. He wrote a letter to the Allentown newspaper attacking Trump on that, which is a daring thing to do. But I think Catholics are gonna. I think. I think most Catholics agree with labor unions. They believe in a living wage. They don't like the word socialism. They may like some of the realities of socialism, but they may not like the word because they don't like communism. They Just don't hate communism. But I think the, the moderation and the call to arms for working people. You know, I think the tougher this economy gets, the more people are going to be talking about working people. They just are.

[Jim Acosta]

That's right. Well, and, and the other thing that we should keep in mind too, and Pope Francis was a big believer in this, was being tolerant of migrants. And this new pope spent part of his time in Peru, that was his parish, the country of Peru, for many years. And so he's obviously going to come to this with that same kind of mentality to some extent that Pope Francis had when it comes to this issue of migration. And there is a fissure in the Catholic Church over this. I mean, if the tweets are correct, apparently Robert Prevost, when he was the cardinal, tweeted something that was critical of J.D. vance, when J.D. vance was putting out there that you're pro family first and then pro other things after that. Apparently Cardinal Prevost said, actually that's not true and sort of getting really deep into some theological discussions there that Catholics care an awful lot about.

[Chris Matthews]

Yeah, well, we'll find out because he'll tell us. This new Pope's going to tell us where he stands, let you know where he stands vis a vis that new convert to our religion, J.D. vance. But you know, I think you have to go back to render under Caesar the things that are Caesar's and to guide the things that are God's. And you got to figure out where the state comes in to protecting the border and where human Christianity comes in in terms of grabbing people off the streets. Have been here 20 years and going to church and going to work and paying the Social Security and not getting a nickel out of it. And you got to say, why are they being grabbed off the streets and why are innocent legal, four year old, four year old kid? How are we doing this?

[Jim Acosta]

Four year old kid?

[Chris Matthews]

I am a moderate. I believe that if Trump had done one thing, just shut down the border, that would have been enough. And you don't hear any criticism of that. Nobody, not a pipsqueak out of any of the Hispanic leaders. Nobody's saying open the border. Nobody's saying open it. Nobody's saying, they're saying be kind to people.

[Jim Acosta]

Yes, that's right.

[Chris Matthews]

That's a big part of it.

[Jim Acosta]

You know, that's exactly right, Chris. And you know, the other thing too is, you know, apparently Maga World is not happy about this. I was mentioning this a few moments ago. Steve Bannon was raising questions with Piers Morgan about the cardinal. Now, Pope Megyn Kelly was criticizing the pope's Twitter account. So you can already start to see those gears turning over there, Chris.

[Chris Matthews]

Well, he's the leader of 1.4 million Catholics, and he gets the respect from a lot of Protestants and Jewish people, especially in the case of Francis. And I'll tell you one thing, the more this guy identifies with Pope Francis, the better for him. And I think in the end, Pope Francis was constrained by the curia. You know, he once said, I want to be buried as far from the curious possible. It's like Cyril Ramaphos in South Africa. You go into these countries as a leader, there's so many people opposed to you inside. What's it called? What's Trump called Washington? Anyway, it's the state. Inside the state.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah. The deep state.

[Chris Matthews]

Yeah, you got to deal with them. And so this pope, you know, I. We all thought that Pope Paul vi, when he came into office after the great John Paul xxiii, we thought, this guy is going to change the church rule on birth control. It's going to get done. It already came out of a commission. It was ready to roll. He was already ready to read the script, and he pulled back. And instead of fixing the issue, and I mean fixing them, because, you know, the average family in the Catholic Church used to be like, my five. I come up with five. My wife came up from five. They were a little. And some families were bigger than five, but there was no birth control. And now most families, when you go to church, you'll see three kids. That's just the way it is.

[Jim Acosta]

That's the way it is.

[Chris Matthews]

Three kids. And so he didn't do it. He came out. Here's what he did. Pope Paul, Virginia, instead of changing the rule on birth control, he announced that we could eat meat on Friday. Nobody wanted meat on Friday. Everybody liked tuna fish. That's what Catholics call it.

[Jim Acosta]

I grew up eating fish on Friday. That's what we did. And my other Catholic friends in high school, if I didn't have fish on Friday, I would get a lot of abuse in the school cafeteria at Anville High School in Virginia.

[Chris Matthews]

But anyway, and the only thing that stopped us was there's a mercury scare about swordfish for a while, and we couldn't get swordfish, but it was fish sticks and it was tuna fish, and that's how you knew you're Catholic. Yeah, but they got rid of that. And I think that was. I don't say stupid, but it was the wrong decision to make. People Wanted birth control to be legalized.

[Jim Acosta]

And last thing, Chris, I have to ask you, and this is maybe slightly tongue in cheek, slightly unjust, is it possible the Vatican was trolling Donald Trump at all? I mean, after Donald Trump came out, posted this thing of him dressed up as the Pope, and then the Vatican and then the cardinals choose an American pope, I mean, I, you know, is this divine intervention? What is this?

[Chris Matthews]

Let me go a little deeper. I think the Catholic cardinals are a little deeper than that. They are getting even like Trump. They're not interested in the latest scorecard of abuse and grievance. I thought what I liked. I looked out into the crowd of St. Peter's Square and you can see it tonight on the news. Those faces were happy. They weren't into the east versus west rivalry. They weren't into how much do we dislike big shot Americans or even Donald Trump. When they saw this new Pope, they saw him, they didn't see Trump.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah, very good.

[Chris Matthews]

It's so great. And the fact that he was part of the Vatican, that he was sort of playing the role that Ralph Fiennes played in the movie.

[Jim Acosta]

Absolutely. I think that is so fascinating. And that movie is just absolutely brilliant the way it just lays out the internal politics that, of course, have always been there and I suspect played out this time as well. Chris, great to see you.

[Chris Matthews]

Stanley Tucci, Ray Fiennes, and John Wither. I think all three of those.

[Jim Acosta]

I agree, I agree. If we could have given a trio of Oscars to those guys, it would have been perfect. It's such a great movie.

[Chris Matthews]

Thank you, Chris.

[Jim Acosta]

Great to see you. Thanks so much. Thanks for jumping on. Bye.

[Norm Eisen]

Bye.

[Jim Acosta]

Oh, I agree. Thank you so much, Chris. Really appreciate it. The great Chris Matthews. I'll bring Tara Setmeier on. She's been waiting patiently. And, you know, sometimes divine intervention happens quickly. Sometimes it happens at its own pace. And that's what happened with Chris Matthews. And there's Tara Set Meyer. I have Tara. She's in her car. Her signal is completely solid. Tara, how are you?

[Tara Setmayer]

I'm good, I'm good. I'm sorry I'm joining you on the go, but a bit of a storm happening here in the D.C. area.

[Norm Eisen]

Oh, wow. Okay.

[Tara Setmayer]

And so my meeting went a little late and I said, I'm not gonna miss being on with you. So I said, I'll just be stationary and we could do it from the car.

[Jim Acosta]

That's okay. I've done this before. I did it my old job, too. You're right. I'm seeing out the window, it is pouring down rain. Duke is not gonna wanna go for a walk, as I usually do after my show is over, so I'll just have to pour a glass of wine early. And speaking of that, apparently Judge Jeanine might be Trump's pick for U.S. attorney in D.C. did you get that little alert, too?

[Tara Setmayer]

I just did. And I heard what you just did with that about the wine.

[Jim Acosta]

I mean, you know.

[Norm Eisen]

Yeah.

[Jim Acosta]

Here's everybody. Stay thirsty, my friends.

[Tara Setmayer]

Good Lord. It's just. Again, it's part of the cacistocracy. The worst, most unqualified people running the government. And that's just another example. I mean, Ed Martin is a terrible human being and he's a racist and he's a January 6th sympathizer, and he is a conspiracy theorist and was completely unqualified to do his job. And how do I know all of this? Because I used to debate him on cnn. Interestingly, you may remember this, Jim.

[Jim Acosta]

I didn't know this.

[Tara Setmayer]

Ed Martin was a CNN paid contributor in the latter half of 2017.

[Jim Acosta]

Wow. I must have been too busy to notice that.

[Chris Matthews]

Right?

[Tara Setmayer]

Well, I mean, yeah, you were actually doing yeoman's work and doing good reporting then. But yes. Cause I remember I was like, wait a minute. This Ed Martin guy, why does this sound familiar? And I went back and I looked, and there are multiple videos of me in 2017. Absolutely. Destroying Ed Mart on multiple panels. And I have to say that one of the few times I've ever actually, like, lost it on air because I was so angry, I slammed the table. And it was on Anderson Cooper's show.

[Jim Acosta]

Wow.

[Tara Setmayer]

It was with him. Because it was. Do you remember when Donald Trump insulted those families in Nigeria? And then they were saying, because he said something horrible to the wives or something like, well, they knew what they signed up for or something ridiculous. And then that was when John Kelly was coming out. And like, everyone was like, well, John Kelly has a, you know, lost a son and he's the chief of staff. And they kept putting out how, you know, well, Trump didn't call John Kelly or somebody. Obama didn't call John Kelly right away when his son. And they were just trying to make it seem like it was okay. Yeah, right. And I literally slammed the table and said, stop using General Kelly's dead son as a political prop. How dare you?

[Jim Acosta]

Absolutely.

[Tara Setmayer]

And that was in direct response to Ed Martin. So I find it very interesting that in none of the reporting. Do you ever hear that Ed Martin was a former CNN contributor and he was fired from CNN because of racially insensitive comments that he made on his radio show.

[Jim Acosta]

Really? Well, apparently. I mean, that's what sunk this nomination. And thank goodness for two things. One being just persistence and the Google, because Ed Martin was undone by the Google. And I had a former Assistant US Attorney on last week or the week before, and they were all raising these issues. Of all these crazy cockamamie things, he had said that he had endorsed or supported this person who was a white nationalist or a neo Nazi and had a Hitler mustache. And Ed Martin's basically like, I don't recall that. I don't recall that. And people were, you know, and Dick Durbin has the video. They had the damn video.

[Tara Setmayer]

Right?

[Jim Acosta]

It was in the Washington Post.

[Tara Setmayer]

Exactly.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah.

[Tara Setmayer]

Like, that's what kills me. It's like they are so arrogant, they think that we can't find the video. Exactly. Said this. It's on video. The Google machine never lies. Like you can find it. Well, that's not true. It does lie. But you can find it on the Google machine, like, stop it. And so, I mean, I'm glad that people like Officer Fanon and others have been very vocal about this and bringing this attention to everyone. And I just want people to be reminded that the righteous anger of the American people can change things.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah. He had called Fanon a fake cop. He had called Fanon a fake cop, which is one of the most disgusting, despicable things you can say, especially if you're supposed to be somebody who's a member of the law enforcement community. If you're going to be the U.S. attorney, you can't go around calling Mike Fanon a fake cop after he had been almost murdered by these insurrectionists, these traitors, on January 6. And the other reason Tara wanted to have you on is because I wanted to preview the fact that you and I will be at the Webbies together, courtesy of you coming up on Monday, because your Seneca Project won a webby for the American Girl ad, which is just absolutely fantastic. I'm so proud of you.

[Tara Setmayer]

Oh, thank you so much, Jim. You know, those who are familiar with our work at the Seneca Project, with what Michelle Kinney and I have built there and what we started as, just two women who wanted to make a difference. We started it with our own money. We're a very small operation, and with determination and grit and the support of grassroots because we didn't have big mega donors supporting us. It was literally a grassroots effort when we started Seneca Project, and still is. We get very frustrated when we see sometimes where the money goes. And we're like, we're here trying to do the right thing. Support us, please.

[Jim Acosta]

Absolutely.

[Chris Matthews]

That's right.

[Tara Setmayer]

No, Defending democracy was not a business decision for us. It's literally life or death, not only as women, but as Americans, as we see our democracy on life support because of what's happening. But American Girl was really our crowning achievement, and it was conceptualized by Michelle, and we had an amazing ad team that put it all together and what our idea was. And we won the People's Voice award, which means that all of you who are watching right now are part of our win. And that's why when you guys went and voted for us and you and Jim, we're so grateful to you for platforming us and giving us the least I can do. And we were like, you have to be a part of this with us, which is why we wanted to invite you. And we're so thrilled that you'll be joining us because you really were instrumental in helping us win. So we're grateful to you for that.

[Jim Acosta]

No, I'm. I'm happy to do it. I love this. I'm so excited to come, and I'm wondering, should we do a sub stack live from the red carpet? Are we allowed to do that?

[Tara Setmayer]

I think we certainly can. I mean, the red carpet is a little. It kind of moves along because there's a lot of people, but we can do it from the side of the road. Target, like, once we get off, and then there's a cool reception. So before we go inside, we can hop on real quick. I think that would be fantastic. We should do it.

[Jim Acosta]

I love it. And this. But this speaks to. I mean, the Webbies are a big deal now. There was a. There was a time when people in television and film, I'd be like, oh, the Webbies. Oh. I mean, I. I saw all the people who were lined up to show show up there on Monday night. Like, Snoop Dogg's going to be there and meet a lot of people there. And this just goes to the power of independent media, the power of new media. Places like Substack, this is just. It's the new world, folks. You know, it's true.

[Tara Setmayer]

It's true. We described it as the Oscars of social media, because it really is. And there were, like, 13,000 entries from 70 different countries that entered into the Webby Awards to be considered. And so that's what I'm saying. Like, for us to be not only nominated, that's an honor in and of itself, but then to Win in our category was just extraordinary. I mean, you talk about a David and Goliath story. We were in a category up against Disney, Universal Pictures and a documentary on Caitlin Clark from the WNBA and a luxury brand like ad campaign. And American Girl won thanks to all of you guys. It was a grassroots effort. The people won it. So this is just as much ours as it is theirs. And here's the cool thing. So the Webbies have a tradition where you can only do a five word acceptance speech. That's it. It doesn't matter who you are, how big you are, how famous you are. Five words and that's it. So you have to wait and see what our five word acceptance speech was. We put out a call for people to send in their suggestions. And I'm telling you, we have some clever folks out there. But yeah, so we're hoping that we get a chance to go on stage to give our five word acceptance speech, because otherwise they'll just put it on a projection screen and then everybody sees it. But to get on stage would be really, really cool. So let's hope, let's hope and pray that we get to do it on stage.

[Jim Acosta]

Well, we're getting some suggestions for you coming up in the comments, and some of them I cannot. I just don't think when a new pope has been announced, I don't want to tempt fate too much.

[Tara Setmayer]

Oh, are there some Ms.

[Jim Acosta]

Words involved?

[Tara Setmayer]

Are there some words? Listen, the Webbies are very edgy. And last year, Julia Louis Dreyfus won Podcaster of the Year for her amazing podcast where she spotlighted the incredible stories of older women because she felt that older women have so much to offer in their life experience and their wisdom, and they're often, especially in Hollywood, kind of pushed aside. So she wanted to really spotlight older women and she won. And her five word speech was never. No, wait, listen to older women MFers.

[Jim Acosta]

That's awesome.

[Tara Setmayer]

Yes. She's fabulous. I adore her. That was the highlight of my night last year, was meeting her. She's wonderful.

[Jim Acosta]

Well, and somebody has offered another suggestion. I'm just gonna say, and this is a comment. I'm just reading comments as Donald Trump, kiss my ass. That was a comment. I'm not saying it. Charlie Kirk or whoever. Don't clip that and make it sound like I said it. I'm reading a comment. That's one suggestion from the audience.

[Tara Setmayer]

Well, you know, that would be Donald Trump, kiss our asses. Because we're up there representing women in America and all of us who are democracy Defenders, you know, so it'd be ours, because we're in this all in this together.

[Jim Acosta]

Amazing. Well, I will let you get on your way. You've been so kind to pull over in the middle of this giant storm and talk, but, Tara, I can't wait to see you up in New York for the Webbies. It's gonna be a heck of a night, and it's gonna be a lot of fun, so. And thank you so much for inviting me. I'm thrilled and honored. You know, they'll probably throw me out.

[Tara Setmayer]

But anyway, no, it's our pleasure. And hopefully next year, when you win a Webby award for your show, we'll all be able to celebrate again, so our pleasure. Looking forward to it. We're gonna have a great time. We'll post lots of pictures for folks. And, you know, I. Again, just to leave on the note of two things positive that people can remember, that the righteous anger of the American people can make a difference. So do not just. Do not exhaust yourselves into believing there's nothing you can do, because every day we are flooded with this fire hose of fuckery. But you know what? We'll take every little win we can and where we can stop them. Great. And that should give us the energy and the fuel to keep this fight going, because it's going to take all of us.

[Jim Acosta]

So let's.

[Tara Setmayer]

We can leave it with that.

[Jim Acosta]

We will weather the shitstorm as happy warriors. That is how we do it. That's right. Great to see you. Thank you so much. Really appreciate it. Congrats, Tara. I'll see you in New York.

[Tara Setmayer]

Thank you, Jim. Thank you, everybody.

[Jim Acosta]

All right, excellent. Take care, Tara. All right. That was very nice of her. Tara was kind enough to pull over in her car and join us live, which I'll take it. You know, listen, if I got to wait a few minutes for Chris Matthews to get ready and they got to reset the router, whatever they're doing out there in California, I'm happy to do that. If Norm is, you know, getting his shot set at the last second, which is how we were doing that earlier with Norm, totally fine with that. This is what we do on the sub stack machine. It's not. This is not the Louvre. This is not. Nobody's going to take this and hang it up in the Louvre, and it's an oil painting, like the Mona Lisa or the Sistine Chapel perhaps, might be the better example today, given what's happening in the news. But we put the pieces of the puzzle together, and hopefully you, the Viewer get to enjoy this, or the listener, if you're listening to this, get to enjoy this. But thanks, everybody for watching. Really appreciate it. One final thing, because I mentioned this as I was tap dancing, waiting for Chris Matthews to get going. I mentioned this because earlier today I went up to Capitol Hill with my producer extraordinary, Matt Hoy, who also can shoot. He can do everything. And we tried to catch up with some of the lawmakers up there on the Republican side as to why in the world they would waste their time voting to call the Gulf of Mexico the Gulf of America. You know, this has been an obsession of mine. I talked about this in the early days of this program. It's not the Gulf of America. It's just not. We love America. I have George Washington over my shoulder right here. I love this country. I love everything about it, or not everything about it, but mostly everything about it. And that's not the issue. The issue is we're not going to take the silly rantings and warped imagination of the president and make that our reality. But unfortunately, up on Capitol Hill today, the Republicans in the House of Representatives got together and they voted for a ridiculous piece of legislation to appease the Dear Leader, as somebody just said to call the Gulf of Mexico the Gulf of America. And they just don't understand the American people. Rational, independent thinking Americans are not going to call it that because it is silly, goofy nonsense. It's goofball stuff. If you do that, if you vote for this, you are engaging in goofballery. You are participating in goofballery. And Donald Trump is the king of the goofballs because he put this forward as just an idea. He's sitting on the commode. He's on the golf course in Mar a Lago, and he comes up with these cockamamie, believe me, I covered him. He puts zero thought into many of these cockamamie ideas. And the Gulf of America is one of those cockamamie ideas that he gave zero thought to. And anyway, the Republicans in the House of Representatives got together and voted for a bill to call it the Gulf of America. As if there's a giant sign, you know, like when you go on Google Images or Google Earth and, you know, it says Gulf of Mexico on, on the graphic in the Google it. They, they think that there's a giant eraser that's going to be lowered by a helicopter and it's going to erase the Mexico and it's going to write in America. Nobody. That's not going to happen. That is not how it works, people, it doesn't work that way. And so in my mind, in your mind, and the minds of rational, independent thinking people with a functioning brain, they're just going to continue to call it the Gulf of Mexico because that's what it is. So, anyway, long story short, we went up to Capitol Hill today and talked to a bunch of Republicans to try to get an answer from them as to why they would waste their time on this goofiness. Most of them ran away from us. There was one member of Congress, I won't give it all away, who just would not answer the question. I walked down the sidewalk with him with my microphone, trying to get him to answer, and he just wouldn't do it. He just wouldn't do it. But Chip, Roy and I did have an exchange, and it is something to behold and you'll want to watch. Anyway, to my friends in the paid subscriber community, we're going to be putting that up later this evening as a special paid subscriber bonus for viewers of the Jim Acosta Show. So if you're a paid subscriber, you get to watch that later on this evening. And after it's been up for a certain period of time, I'll put it up in other places, but you'll get to see it first. So there you go, something special from yours truly, your pal, Jim. But in the meantime, want to thank Norm, the great Norm Eisen, who, I mean, what is he? What's his secret? Why is he so happy? I need to know this secret. Norm was a happy warrior today. Always great to talk to Norm. Always great to talk to the wonderful Chris Matthews, and it was terrific to get his take on the new American pope, Pope Leo xiv. Fascinating development out there in Rome and over at the Vatican, we'll continue to follow that. And of course, my thanks always to the great Tara Setmayer. I can't wait to see her up in New York. We're gonna have an awesome time at the Webbies. But in the meantime, thanks again for watching as always. Still reporting from Washington, Anja Mc Costa. Have a good evening, everybody. Take care. Bye bye.