← The Jim Acosta Show
The Jim Acosta Show
Olivia Troye & Miles Taylor on Epstein-gate and Trump's Attacks on Democracy plus Elise Labott on the starvation in Gaza
01:00:19
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- [00:00]
Jim Acosta
Hey, everybody. Welcome to the Jim Acosta Show. It's Wednesday. It's another day that ends in Y and Epstein gate. Trump still hasn't released the Epstein files. We still don't know if he's going to pardon Ghislaine Maxwell. Sure sounds like he's going to do that in exchange for something. But join me today to talk about this. Miles Taylor, Olivia Troy, we got the trio back together. The triad is back together. Guys, good to see you. I mean, I, you know, I was thinking about it's not Fuck it Friday. And I try not to say fuck that much because people come up to me and they're like, why do you curse? You cursing now, what's happening? But this is kind of a fuck around and find out type deal for Donald Trump. I mean, that's sort of where he's at right now. And he, you know, first he says he kicked Epstein out of Mar? A Lago for being a creep and hitting on his daughter of a member of his club. And now he's saying it's because Epstein, quote, stole an employee from the Spot as club. And he said he thinks it was Virginia Giuffre who committed suicide earlier this year. She's one of Epstein's victims. And I guess earlier in the day, somebody over at the White House asked the question, what do you think Epstein was stealing those women for? I mean, for all the folks out there say they never ask any good questions at the White House. Somebody, a reporter there, did ask the question, what do you think? What did you think Epstein was stealing those women for? And Trump just ignored the question and walked away. And I guess my question to you guys is, and Miles, since you're in a car right now and it's 97 degrees, I'll let you go first before you run out of oxygen. Yeah, that's right.
- [01:36]
Miles Taylor
Before I just start on Light On Fire. I mean, Jim, I think one of the things that I would say is, to your first point, it's clear that he's in a state of panic because even before he got asked this question, we saw Trump on social media, say, or suggest that, you know, maybe his name was planted in the Epstein files. I mean, he's, he's getting really paranoid here. I mean, there's, there's no supporter of his that's going to buy the idea that his name was simply planted in the files. Given everything that's come out, given the revelations that Trump was briefed by his own Attorney General, that his name was found in the files. And so he's getting really anxious here. And I think his foot and mouth moment overseas in not condemning Jeffrey Epstein's historic pedophile ring and sex trafficking and instead complaining about how he was poaching employees has put him in an even worse spot. I think he's really in a state of denial and he's spiraling. But look, as I said before, my worry is always when Donald Trump spirals and the gloating starts, which looks part of it. It's fun to gloat and watch a man this unhinged become more unhinged. But that also means a lot of real world consequences because he casts about for anything that can distract attention. And I can give you a simple example. This happens in real time in the White House. I remember there was a day that was a really good news day for Donald Trump related to national emergencies. He was declaring in the first term and he felt like he was victorious. And he hated it when people covered his medical files, the release of his doctor's visits, because he didn't like people talking about it. So it was a day of a lot of news and he was winning. And he turned to Sarah Huckabee Sanders and he said, hey, go release my latest physician's report. Because he wanted to just have put it out on a day when people weren't going to pay attention. That's the kind of thing he does. He's always looking for little distractions, places to bury the news, things to bury other news with. And my concern going into this next episode of the Epstein saga is he's going to throw more stuff into the.
- [03:48]
Jim Acosta
Zone to fly and he's going to escalate. I mean, that's the concern, Olivia. And he's been trying to do trade wars. He's been trying the tariff thing, I mean, and that'll get part of the press to cover that, and maybe that will placate him somewhat. But I think Miles is right. He gets more dangerous as the days go on and as this drags on and he can't extricate himself from this fix that he's in.
- [04:12]
Olivia Troy
Yeah, sorry, I thought we were here to talk about windmills.
- [04:16]
Jim Acosta
Right.
- [04:17]
Olivia Troy
Isn't that the important topic of the week? I think that's where he's.
- [04:20]
Jim Acosta
He's spinning like a windmill.
- [04:22]
Olivia Troy
Yes. The angrier he gets, the more he, like, lashes out. And now he's angry at the windmills. Again. It's poor windmills, man. But like Miles said, I think we're seeing it in the shift in policy that this is what he does when he lashes out. But the thing about Trump, especially in this moment in the past few weeks, what I would say is, like, he's not behaving like someone who is innocent in this situation. He's behaving like someone who is lashing out, who's angry. He looks really guilty. Right. Every demeanor that and every trait that he's exhibiting shows that this is someone who is not exhibiting any sort of transparency, I mean, or any remorse for the victims or any. Anything that a normal person who has nothing to hide would exhibit. He has shown none of that, which I think is, one, very telling, considering, you know, that Donald Trump. And two, I think also, I mean, if all of this is fake, if all of this isn't real, then why are you so angry? And why are you spending so much money? And why are you suing? Like, why are you suing over the letter, Right? I mean, for so much money, if you're. I mean, it's sort of like the deflection of everything and the anger. And I think he just. You know, I think he knows he's in a lot of trouble here. And the question is that I keep asking, you know, will this be it for Republicans? Are they gonna actually do something, or are they gonna cave and go along and. But, I mean, my money is on caving and going along unless we constituents and voters and people in communities continue to raise hell about this and say we need to get to the bottom of it.
- [06:03]
Jim Acosta
And just to both of you, did you ever see him this freaked out when you worked under him as he is right now, did you ever see him this freaked out publicly? Publicly?
- [06:14]
Miles Taylor
I don't think so. I mean, I think there were things with the Russia investigation where it got really close. I mean, you know, it's not like I would. And I can't speak for Olivia, but it's not like I would sit at the foot of his bed at bedtime and see what his mental state was like. At the end of the day, we didn't have that kind of relationship. We didn't.
- [06:31]
Jim Acosta
That's a good point.
- [06:33]
Miles Taylor
But, you know, in meetings in the Oval with him or other places that should have been focused on really serious national security issues, you know, I watched him unspool on the Russia investigation at really inopportune times. I mean, you know, when we were talking about legitimate life and death, you know, here comes a Category 5 hurricane, and we're worried about this terrorist attack. And he would spin out about the Russia investigation, which, of course, he used to always call the witch hunt, that was the closest thing I think I saw. But this is different in the sense that it's so personal, it's so graphic, it's so disgusting. And he's lost so many of his own supporters over it.
- [07:10]
Jim Acosta
Yeah.
- [07:10]
Miles Taylor
That I think he's spiraling worse about this than he was about the Russia investigation.
- [07:15]
Olivia Troy
Yeah, I would agree with that. I would just say, like, the only time that I saw him somewhat spiral like this was during COVID But it wasn't because of COVID by the way, and it wasn't because of the pandemic. It was because it was clear that he was losing traction in the election. And the more that that became apparent, especially in the summer with everything that was happening, the more that he started to kind of go off the rails some. And then we see that, and it culminates in January 6th. I mean, that's the closest that I saw it. But I think his demeanor, though, right now is what I think is different. Just everything about the way he's interacting with people, the things that he's saying, the way he's trying to cover it up specifically, too, the things, I mean, they don't even add up. They don't even make sen. Are illogical. So.
- [08:05]
Jim Acosta
Right. If the Biden people had put stuff in the Epstein files, they would have used the Epstein files against him to stop him from being President. I mean, there's that. I mean, there's. And the other thing it tells me is that if. If he thinks that the Biden people put something in the Epstein files, there must be something in the Epstein files about him that's not very good. I mean, there's. There's that, too. But, you know, the other thing that he's tried to do is he said the other day, well, you know, he would be okay with releasing grand jury testimony from the Epstein case. Perhaps. This is why the Washington Post reported today that the grand jury transcripts the Justice Department is seeking to make public from its investigation include testimony from only two witnesses. Only two witnesses, both of them law enforcement officers, according to lawyers speaking with Washington Post. I mean, that tells you right there, there isn't much that Trump is willing to release or that the DOJ feels comfortable. And to both of your points, and this is a Post poll that just came out. They just did a survey of people on this. An overwhelming majority of the public supports releasing all the files from the Epstein case, including two thirds who support this strongly. And according to this survey, 83% of Republicans and 82% of MAGA Republicans support the release of the Epstein files. I mean, he, all he, all he cares about is, are his poll numbers. Those are not good poll numbers.
- [09:25]
Miles Taylor
He's not going to be able to escape it. I mean, they're going to have to release. They're going to have to release the bulk of the files that, of course, have the victim's names redacted or this will continue forever. I mean, he just really doesn't have a choice. And so I imagine that their big focus right now inside the administration is really understanding what's in the files about Donald Trump and how can they prepare to deflect from it. And that probably doesn't mean preparing talking points to defend the president for whatever derogatory things are in those files. It means they've got to find some other scapegoat. They have to say something nasty about Bill Clinton or they have to say something nasty about someone who's allegedly also in the files. And so, you know, there's already been hundreds of DOJ and FBI officials pulled to go review these files. I imagine right now a smaller group is doing the same thing, but now with a very, very different eye, which is just purely revenge. And how can information be miscast? That worries me in particular because this week, Jim, as you've already started to point out, has been a roller coaster week with the Justice Department really doing a lot of things, not just to defend Donald Trump, but go on offense against his enemies. And we can get into some of those. But it's clear that this is the week they've started to sort of stretch their sea legs and, you know, end prosecutions against his donors and supporters and start to go after more of his rivals, judges he doesn't like. I mean, if there's a story this week, I think it's that the Justice Department is now unchained when it comes to his revenge campaign. And that's really alarming to me. And nowhere is that more evident than with Epstein.
- [11:03]
Jim Acosta
Yeah. And I mean, one of his top deputies at the Justice Department, Emile Beauvais, is now going to sit as a judge on the Circuit Court of Appeals. And I mean, that came down last night. Olivia, I know you posted on this. This is a very disturbing development because it is sort of the creeping of the Trump, if you want to call it the Trump deep state into the judiciary. And I mean, he's almost setting, I mean, it sounds as though he's setting the table for Beauvais to be on the Supreme Court.
- [11:35]
Olivia Troy
Yeah, in my house, he's known as evil Beauvais, just so you know, because that's what he was doing.
- [11:40]
Jim Acosta
Dr. Evil Bove. Yeah.
- [11:42]
Olivia Troy
Yes. Dr. Evil Bove is what I will refer to him as from now on. I think, you know, this is a guy who has accused FBI officials of insubordination. He was. When they wouldn't hand over the names, the people that responded to the Jan6 attack, I mean, I don't see an ounce of integrity in this individual. And now he has a lifetime appointment to the bench. And I think we've heard from whistleblowers, we've heard recordings. I mean, the facts have been laid out. And I guess when I saw that he had officially been confirmed and that this guy got through, I was really disturbed by it because it was, again, another chipping away at. One of the pillars of the foundation of our country and democracy is the judiciary. And I'm concerned about this because I. You know, what is in those files that is driving the president to use the entire federal government apparatus for his defense? Right. Because Miles just described, like, the attacks of, like, the ongoing investigations, what Pam Bondi is now doing. Now we've got this guy sitting on the bench. I mean, I'm just concerned at the layers of permeation that is happening here of loyalists and people who are his henchmen, even though, you know, Evil Bowie said that he wasn't a henchman for nobody. And then you've got, you know, these recordings, and you've got, apparently, instructions from him where basically tells people to lie. Um.
- [13:12]
Jim Acosta
And defy court orders.
- [13:13]
Olivia Troy
Yeah, and defy court orders, which to me is incredibly disturbing. That this guy is now, you know.
- [13:19]
Miles Taylor
Well, and I would. I'd add to that, Olivia. You know, one of the things that has almost gotten lost in the news coverage about Beauvais confirmation this week is that there was an extraordinary scandal that popped up with this thing at the last minute. Namely, we've got the three whistleblowers that came forward to say, this guy's engaged in misconduct and lying, and, yes, most egregiously, allegedly urged people to violate court orders. And one of the main whistleblowers behind those complaints, the Justice Department, conveniently lost that whistleblower complaint for three months and only found it on the eve of the vote. This is really scary shit. You know, we. At least, you know, no matter how corrupted the government becomes, we've got to at least hope that channels, legal channels for whistleblowers who see wrongdoing exist for them to come forward and to flag that wrongdoing. And, you know, I don't know if we'll ever get to the bottom of where that complaint went for three months, but it sounds pretty damn convenient that the most controversial nominee, Donald Trump, has tried to put on the bench at a very serious accusation leveled against him that would be fundamental to the confirmation for his job. And it just disappeared. It got misplaced until just before the night it went forward. That's really, really scary stuff. And I think that's a harbinger of what's likely to come. Justice Department, you know. You know, paving over and defending people who've again, allegedly tried to defy judicial orders.
- [14:55]
Jim Acosta
Yeah. Well, I'll give you one more. Remember when Trump said that the election was rigged, it was rigged. Now he's trying to rig the election in Texas. The Washington Post. With control of the narrowly divided U.S. house hanging in the balance in the 2016 or 2026 midterm elections, Republicans in Texas unveiled their opening proposal to redraw the district boundaries that would give five more safely red seats to Trump and the Republicans. And I guess California may try to retaliate, and they may do their thing to try to balance things out here. But, I mean, this is just out and out. This is rigging an election. This is rigging the numbers. What do you think, Olivia?
- [15:39]
Miles Taylor
You're from Texas, you're a Texan.
- [15:40]
Olivia Troy
Yeah, yeah. I've been watching this very closely just because I was curious to where the, the lines are going to be drawn for these districts. I think it's super interesting that they've decided to hang their hat on the Latino vote, which to me is really concerning because it did, it did go further to the right in Texas and in border towns. I know it certainly did. In my home city of El Paso, it was the highest percentage that a Republican had gotten in a presidential election for sure. And so I think that's what they're hopefully banking on. I think that they see an opportunity there, which should concern us about the way that they see the Republican platform resonating with Latinos. I don't know if that's gonna hold, given what we're seeing in terms of the way, you know, Latinos and other people are being, and American citizens, I'll say, too, are being treated now on the immigration issue. And you and I, you know, I know we care a lot about this and what's happening. I don't know if that'll hold true. But I do think that that is sign, number one of laying the groundwork. And I think it's a sign of this is you know, state and local and the reach the Trump administration is doing here in preparation for upcoming elections. But I'll also say when you tie that to the fact that there's an executive order out there that talks about election equipment and inspecting it, when you.
- [16:59]
Jim Acosta
Yeah. You wrote about this, right, Olivia?
- [17:01]
Olivia Troy
Yeah, I did. I just wrote about this because I think it's, you know, there's so many headlines and so much news right now that we've got people showing up claiming that they have the authority of the Trump administration, the White House, and they're showing up to these election official offices, they're showing up to clerks, and they're demanding access to voter registries. I mean, this is happening in several states right now. And I'm concerned at the top layer effect of what's happening here and how this is going to continue to permeate. And I think there's a lot of discussions, I think, right now happening in terms of election security and protection circles of how to make sure that the infrastructure is prepared to protect the people that are simply doing their jobs, who will face the bullying again and who are already facing the bullying right now when people are showing up and claiming to be things that they're not, I mean, that's incredibly dangerous.
- [17:58]
Miles Taylor
Well, let me tell you, Jim, one other thing that people may not have noticed, and I really want them to put this in their minds. No one's put this out in a news story yet. But Donald Trump, in just his first few months in office, if you want a sense of where his headspace is on this upcoming election, he has now singled out and targeted with executive action the past two top election officials in the United States, a Democrat and a Republican. The first was Chris Krebs, who was a Trump appointee, our former colleague who oversaw election security at dhs. He's now targeted Chris with a Justice Department investigation to try to slander his name, right? To take him off the field so that he, he can't go out there and criticize Trump's efforts to subvert election integrity. And then just today, the Trump administration fired Jen Easterly, who is teaching at West Point, who was the most recent head of that same election oversight agency at DHS who worked under the Biden administration. They've just fired her from her nonpartisan role teaching political science at West Point and are launching an investigation into, you know, her being in that role. That's very significant, cuz Chris and Jen Easterly are two of the loudest voices bipartisan on election integrity in this country. And now they're both under this cloud of Trump administration suspicion, investigation, et cetera, that really should have people worried. He wants to sideline those people who could criticize his actions, who know what he's going to try to do, and of course, as we've noted, try to go stack the deck in his favor. This will become an even bigger story going into the fall as we get a year out from the midterm elections. You'll see the Trump administration doing more on election integrity as the guys who are trying to steer the election in their favor.
- [19:54]
Jim Acosta
Well, and these are mob tactics. I mean, this reminds me of the way they went after the election workers in Georgia during the, the efforts to overturn the 2020 election. These are mob tactics. Trump wants to intimidate people so they don't get into the business of ensuring free and fair elections in this country. And it, I think, ties maybe a little bit back to the Epstein files, a little bit in that he is desperate to keep that Republican majority in the Congress right now. Look what Mike Johnson just did. He just sent all the House members back home. Yes, they may, some of them may do town halls and we'll all pop our popcorn for that. But if they can hang onto those gavels and thwart any investigations, thwart any hearings, thwart an impeachment process, he thinks he can ride out this Epstein thing. And I think that it is tied into some of these tactics that we're seeing.
- [20:50]
Olivia Troy
Yeah, I think it's all connected. I'm super curious as to who's going to take Jenny's release job. I mean, is it, what, Cleta Mitchell, the Election Integrity Network lady, is she.
- [20:59]
Jim Acosta
Back in the picture now, too?
- [21:00]
Olivia Troy
Yeah, she is. They did a briefing. DHS did an official briefing to her. Would love to know who did that one for her. But this is the kind of situation that we're in. I mean, what's next? Jeannie Thomas running this? I mean, that's. I'm just. I mean, heck, why not? I mean, corruption all across the board, it seems like right now. I mean, this is a thing we see and bannering public. So, I mean, here we are. But I think, you know, that's a role that we should definitely be paying attention to. But I think you're right. It's all strategic. As much as we say, you know, that these are not competent people sometimes because some of them are definitely charlatans and incompetent in their roles. But I think there is a certainly holistic kind of playbook being enacted here as they try to, you know, sidestep what's going on with the Epstein bowels, but also prepare for the next election cycle because they know they've got to hang on to power because I don't want anyone being able to actually do real investigations and actually get to the bottom of this.
- [22:03]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, I mean, they are bumbling idiots. A lot of them are bumbling idiots, but they do tend to hone their attention. They can focus. They can focus their attention when it comes to subverting and overthrowing elections in this country. And, Miles, I mean, I know you got to get going here shortly, and I want. I, I used to do this thing called the Dear Leader Files. It's been a while since I've done the Dear Leader Files, but I think this is. This calls for a quick little update on the Dear Leader files. Everybody remembers Trump's bribe plane from the Qataris. He. He got a bride, he wants to get a bribe plane. Apparently, he's going to get the bride plane. But, Miles, you were calling attention to the fact that it may cost a billion dollars, right around a billion dollars to refurbish Donald Trump's bride plane.
- [22:47]
Miles Taylor
That's right. I mean, you know, reporting this week, I think Peter Baker at the New York Times was the first, and Peter's been fantastic on tracking. Some of this showed that allegedly there was a classified Pentagon transfer of close to a billion dollars in funding, partly from nuclear weapons programs, partly from missile defense programs, towards what is believed to be the retrofitting of the already $400 million jet that Donald Trump was gifted from the Qataris. Now, you said bribe, Jim. I think this is really interesting because the Trump administration has bent over backwards to try to portray this $400 million gift from the Qataris as a gift with no strings attached that was just done out of the goodness of their hearts. I wanna remind everyone how the timeline played out, because in the first term, Donald Trump was really upset. He thought Air Force One was too old. And then when he left office, he, you know, he complained about his own unusual.
- [23:40]
Jim Acosta
But anyway, yeah, go ahead.
- [23:41]
Miles Taylor
Yeah, he wanted to improve his own jet. In fact, if you all remember, he even emailed his own supporters encouraging them to donate to him to upgrade Trump Force One. And then he gets back into office and he goes on this diatribe again about needing to upgrade Air Force One. And in February, he went out there publicly and said this very interesting thing. While he was on Air Force One, he went back to where the reporters sit and he said, you know, I'm thinking about replacing Air Force One. And in fact, I might even go look abroad to see if there's another plane out there. I don't want an Airbus, I want a Boeing jet. Okay, so he's broadcasting, here's the type of jet. I want a, I want a Boeing jet. And then he says, in fact, we may ask foreign countries for one and maybe one of them will give us one. He puts out into the world just in case anyone happens to be listening to Donald Trump and his Christmas wish list. And then miracle of miracles, Jim, a few weeks later, a country says we happen to have an extra luxury. BOEING Dumble jet, Mr. President, do you want it? And the Gulf nation of Qatar offered that jet to Donald Trump, knowing he would receive it, knowing he loved jets and wanted one. And as the reporting suggests, cutting a deal that it would get transferred to his presidential library once he leaves office. So a man famous for his transactional diplomacy gets what is likely to be the biggest gift from a foreign government to the United States President of all time at a really convenient moment early in his term. Judge for yourself if this is a bribe meant for favorable treatment of that country. But this is extraordinary. So we're close to $1.5 million of value to going to the President, likely personally, because it will leave office with him.
- [25:30]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, and Olivia, the New York Times story that Miles mentioned, it mentions that they're going to need a billion dollars to do this. And apparently there was this mysterious $934 million transfer of funds from one of the Pentagon's most over budget, out of control projects, the modernization of America's aging ground based nuclear missiles. And apparently that money has been mysteriously shifted over to pay for this. And the Pentagon is famous for this kind of stuff.
- [25:58]
Olivia Troy
Yeah, well one, just to be clear, you know, there's, there's actually briefings that you get when you become an intelligence officer and you get a security clearance and they go through the whole bribery thing and gifts. So I just, clearly this group has missed that lesson in terms of their responsibilities and national security. It looks like it missed our President for sure. But second of all, I would say that like, you know, watching them shift around these funds, I'm very curious as to what do the appropriations look like? What do the appropriators think about this? Does Congress care? Does anybody want to take a look at this and see what those funds were actually allocated for? Is this okay? I mean, so it's just, is this cool that they're just going to start shifting funds around without. Did they let Congress know that they were doing this. I mean, these were all.
- [26:51]
Jim Acosta
This is why they're worried about losing the majority.
- [26:54]
Miles Taylor
Well, and you know what? You know, we've been saying that if this is indeed a bribe, you know, it's not only the biggest bribe in presidential history, it could potentially be the single largest bribe in world history in absolute value, if that's what it is. And I did a little bit of research on this. I couldn't find anything quite comparable to that.
- [27:17]
Jim Acosta
Cleopatra or something like that.
- [27:18]
Miles Taylor
Nothing like adjusted for inflation, maybe, but it's really scary stuff. And I just. Before I jump, Jim, I wanna foot stomp that last point. The fact that they used classified funding for this allegedly is really worrying because they basically said no one can talk about this in the government without fear of getting put in prison for life. Imagine if Barack Obama had gotten a half a billion dollar gift from a foreign country and took a billion dollars from you, the taxpayers, to make it prettier, and then made a deal to take it with him when he left the presidency and then said, by the way, this is all classified and anyone who talks about it goes to prison. That's what's happening right now. And Trump is getting away with it. This is, in my opinion, one of the biggest scandals we've ever seen with Trump. And I hope that people don't let up on the jet, you know, throughout the rest of his presidency.
- [28:13]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, no question about it. And Barack Obama also did not have a spa where there were employees who went to go work for Jeffrey Epstein. I mean, that's another thing Barack Obama didn't do. But anyway, you know, But I digress. Miles, Olivia, great to see both of you. Thanks so much. I feel like this triad is gaining traction, if I may say, if you don't mind me saying. And not quite cybertruck traction, Miles, but good traction. And I think we should keep doing this. I think we should definitely keep doing this.
- [28:45]
Miles Taylor
Count me in, friends.
- [28:47]
Jim Acosta
All right, good to see you both. Thanks a lot.
- [28:49]
Miles Taylor
Thanks, Jim.
- [28:50]
Jim Acosta
Thanks for helping me out today, guys. Really appreciate it. Thanks, Olivia. Thanks, Miles. I'll let you get on your commute there, Miles. I want to quickly go to my friend, Elise labet. Elise, you know, this has been on my mind. We've been covering Epstein Gate for days and days and days, and I'm going to keep covering Epstein Gate for days and days and days. I call it Epstein Gate. Donald Trump should release the files. Donald Trump should come clean when it comes to what exactly his relationship was with Jeffrey Epstein. We should know all those things. But There are other important things that we need to get into. And my God, Elise, I mean, one of the things, I'm so glad you're back. And you know, you texted me and I was like, yes, we need to do this. This has been on my mind.
- [29:32]
Olivia Troy
I know I'm.
- [29:33]
Jim Acosta
And I'm talking about Gaza. And I mean, when. And I know you've written about this on your, on your substack, which is terrific. But this headline really stood out to me. Not the Barger Taylor Greene headline. We'll talk about that in a moment. But that two Israeli human rights organizations and perhaps you can tell me, Jim, this is not that big of a deal, but this seems like a big deal to me. Two Israeli human rights organizations said on Monday, the supporting Reuters that Israel was committing genocide against Palestinians in Gaza. There has been a growing chorus in this regard. Elise, you have France wanting to recognize Palestinian state. I think Britain today said they want to recognize the Palestinian state. Bibi Netanyahu, the prime minister of Israel, is getting lonelier and lonelier in all of this. What are you focusing on as it relates to Gaza right now? Because the images that we are seeing right now beamed across the globe coming out of Gaza are, they're unbelievable. It's unbelievable what we're seeing.
- [30:36]
Elise Labet
It's unbelievable. And what I'm really noticing, Jim, and we'll get. It's a lot to unpack, and so we'll unpack all of that, is that what's happening is really shifting American public opinion. A poll came out, a Gallup poll the other day that essentially said that only 31, I think 31% of Americans, 38% of Americans express approval of the military action right now in Gaza. And that's the lowest number since, since the war began, since the, the Gaza war began and since October 7th. And I think what happened is, listen, let's just start at the top, because I think every time you talk to Israel, they want to say, but Hamas is responsible. October 7th. That's all true. Hamas started this. Let's just stipulate to that right now. And ultimately Hamas, you know, kind of bears responsibility for the Israeli action. However, you know, Israel is the military power on the ground. And if you remember, because I know you were at the White House at the time, the Colin Powell rule.
- [31:48]
Jim Acosta
Yes. You break it down.
- [31:50]
Elise Labet
The Pottery Barn rule. You break it, you bought it. And what's happening is the more suffering that's going on and I think, you know, the more pictures that are coming out. We've seen, you know, media Coverage, to be honest, ebbing and flowing about what's going in Gaza, given, you know, what's happening in Ukraine, what's happening with Epstein, what's happening with any other big story. Sometimes we kind of have a tendency to just cover what's in front of us right now. And what's in front of us right now is starvation in Gaza. And anybody with eyes, if you don't think that, you know, Benjamin Netanyahu said there's no starvation in Gaza, well, you know, the pictures tell a thousand words. And you're right. This week, two prominent emaciated children. Just emaciated, Emaciated. And there have been, you know, and then you have. Israelis will say, well, you know, there have been, you know, claims of some children that had preexisting conditions. And all of that's true. Does Hamas inflate the numbers? Yes, yes, they do. If one tenth of the people are starving that Hamas said that are starving, it's still one tenth too many. And you're right. This week, two prominent Israeli human rights organizations, Bet Salem and Physicians for Human Rights, released separate reports, you know, accusing Israel of genocide. And what the Israeli ambassador said on our old network CNN to our friend Wolf Blitzer was, oh, those are, you know, left wing organizations that they don't matter. But I'll tell you what's even more, what's even more kind of damning is that some of the leading genocide scholars in the world, and a lot of them are Jewish because they started, you know, with the Holocaust, are saying, listen, what Israel is doing now is purposefully denying Gaza food. And they started in May. You know, there have been different times when they've used aid as a weapon when, when the ceasefire negotiations have broken down, they've had a siege of Gaza and had a blockade of aid to see if that would move Hamas. And that's why these scholars are saying, listen, you know, and you know, genocide, as we both know, because we've covered genocides in Darfur and Rwanda and everywhere. It's a very complicated legal term. It means intentionally trying to wipe out a population. We see the Israelis pushing the Palestinians down to the south to try to get rid of them. We see Israel shooting into areas where Palestinians are waiting for food. Today, about 30 people died, according to Hamas. And again, Hamas is running the health ministry. Do they exaggerate the numbers? Let's assume that they do. Are there still too many people dying? Yes, there are. And so the terms here, you know, get us, you know, into this, you know, political battle. But at the Same time, these are people and they're suffering and the pictures don't lie. And I think what you saw this week was President Trump making this kind of about face, you know, all along, lockstep with Benjamin Netanyahu, you remember from when the Syria in his first term. When did he attack the Syrians? When did he strike the Syrians? When he saw those pictures of children being hit by chemical weapons. So no matter what we say about President Trump in all, you know, forms, this is a president that watches TV and is moved by pictures and he's been moved by pictures of these starving children. And he said, yeah, they, they look pretty hungry to me. They're starving.
- [35:29]
Jim Acosta
Right. And we have to, we also have to stipulate Donald Trump is the one who didn't he repost some crazy AI video of him and Netanyahu with the Gaza, the Riviera, the Gaza and the Trump Hotel there and all this. So you can't really, I'm of the mindset, you really can't trust where his instincts are because they always circle back to what's best for Donald Trump. And so I don't know if he's seeing something in the polling.
- [35:57]
Elise Labet
The polling is, well, there you go. You saw Marjorie Taylor Greene.
- [36:00]
Jim Acosta
Yeah.
- [36:01]
Elise Labet
You know, calling it a genocide. And we've talked about this on your show before, Jim.
- [36:05]
Jim Acosta
Yeah.
- [36:06]
Elise Labet
You know, the MAGA base has been losing support for Israel. You saw that. You know, they've been against him on the war in Ukraine. They were against going after Iran. And I think he, you know, puts his finger up, see which way the wind blows. And you also saw Steve Benn and was talking to Politico the other day and he said, I really think there's a sea change in, in how the base approaches Israel and they're losing support for Israel. So I think that's another thing that's moving it.
- [36:37]
Jim Acosta
And do you think, I mean, I mean, for Britain to say they're going to recognize a Palestinian state in September unless Israel takes steps to relieve suffering in Gaza. I mean, I have to think that that has gotten Netanyahu's attention. And I guess today it was reported in the Guardian that 14 other countries have co signed a declaration suggesting that a wave of future recognitions of an independent state could happen, including Canada, New Zealand, Australia, all of this could take place in the coming months. And I said, do you have, you've covered the diplomatic arena for such a long time, Elise, Are you confident that diplomatic pressure is going to work with Prime Minister Netanyahu? I just don't see how that convinces him. I think he'll be the last man standing when it comes to this.
- [37:25]
Elise Labet
You're absolutely right. And so this is. What is this about? The other day at the United nations, there was a conference. It was postponed from earlier in the summer, but because of the war in Iran, there was a conference. Saudi Arabia and France held a conference on the future of a Palestinian state. And you've seen that more and more states are, you know, recognizing a Palestinian state. France did it earlier this week, much to Israel's horror. And, you know, basically what they're doing is they back this declaration at this conference to address, you know, what. What we're going to do for a Palestinian state. And there's been a lot of work going on behind the scenes with all of these countries on working groups. This isn't just like, oh, yeah, Palestinian state. They're. They're kind of laying out what should happen. And interestingly enough, all these states, all the Arab and Muslim states, the entire European Union and another 17 countries called for Hamas to disarm. They called for, you know, Hamas must end its rule in Gaza. I'm reading from the declaration. And hand over its weapons to the Palestinian Authority. This is all kind of what they're looking for in terms of a Palestinian state. What's the problem here? Benjamin Netanyahu does not recognize that. You can recognize a Palestinian state all you want, but unless you want it to be a virtual state on a website, it doesn't mean anything. It's not.
- [38:50]
Jim Acosta
Don't the Israelis sometimes say, well, what Palestinian state? Who would run it? Who's in charge?
- [38:54]
Elise Labet
That's an entirely legitimate question. And another thing. Look, what they're doing now is they're trying to punish Israel for what's going on with Gaza to recognize Palestinian state. You and I both agree that there should be a Palestinian state. Okay, let's just again stipulate to that. However, I feel like this should have been taken care.
- [39:13]
Jim Acosta
I mean, you and I have been around. I mean, Clinton and Arafat and, I.
- [39:17]
Elise Labet
Mean, we were at Camp David together. God, yeah. But you know what bothers me about this is a. It's an empty gesture because it doesn't mean anything. It's symbolic. It's meant to isolate Israel. What Palestinians need is food right now. Yes, they need a state. But another thing is it. It gives ammunition to Israeli hardliners that say, this is rewarding Hamas. Why would you, you know, give a Palestinian state? Because of what happened on October 7th. And that's why the Arab states have been begging, begging, begging President Trump for a, you know, to get Netanyahu to go for this political horizon, you know, a future. What's the future of Gaza? What's the future of a Palestinian state separate from what's going on in Gaza? And now what's happening is the two are becoming conflated and they're saying, well, if you don't end the war in Gaza, we're going to recognize the Palestinian state. They think it's leverage. Has leverage worked with Benjamin Netanyahu since.
- [40:18]
Jim Acosta
No, it has not worked.
- [40:19]
Elise Labet
No, it has not worked. And so, you know, I think it's symbolic. I think it's an empty gesture. And I just think it's detracting from what the Palestinians really need is like aid. And they need help with governance. They need to, you know, they need to completely be able to refute any claim of what you just said, which is what Palestinian state. They need to be able to say, okay, we have it right here, we're ready to go.
- [40:46]
Jim Acosta
And, you know, these larger issues and these larger questions, I mean, those are all important questions. The real nugget of this, the thing that's at the heart of all of this, is are we seeing genocide and are we seeing the infliction of just absolute human suffering on a large scale for military and political reasons? And when two Israeli organizations are saying, and they can say that they're left wing and so on, that this is genocide and we're seeing these images on the news, it seems to me, if I could wave a magic wand, and perhaps this is going to sound overly simplistic, but if I could make Jose Andres the czar of just in the short term, relieving the starvation, relieving the conditions that are causing the starvation, I feel like this is something that people could rally around a little bit. It doesn't have to be Jose Andres, but I have great admiration for him, the work that he's done there. But it seems to me if that can be isolated as something that can be focused on and worked on, then maybe you can build something around that. And maybe the Israelis will see, maybe Netanyahu and his people will see. If you can get people in there who are independent, have media go in there and so on to observe this process, I just wonder, can you build on something like that? But I don't know, maybe that's too pie in the sky. I don't know.
- [42:13]
Elise Labet
It's not too pie in the sky. And look, as part of this declaration, in this, these Arab states, they've asked for an independent force comprised of Arab states and some others to go in and to be able to administer it. And what the US and other countries, Arab countries are trying to do is set up a humanitarian corridor which basically is an unimpeded, just like you had in, just like the Syrians fought against, just like the Russians are fighting against. A humanitarian corridor where aid is getting in on a steady basis. Those lanes where the food is going in is a no go. And you know, Israel has not ever agreed to that.
- [42:59]
Jim Acosta
And even when they want to agree to it, they see it as interfering with their military operation.
- [43:06]
Elise Labet
Well, they say it's interfering with the military operation and even what's left of the military operation. Well, and I mean, is it working? You know, a couple years in, you can't, Hamas, they've been. You can't, you can't destroy, and you can't destroy an ideology. And certainly not when you. And certainly not when you're launching this kind of military, this military suffering and these military bombardment on the people. And so what the, what these claims of genocide are saying is deliberate intent by Israeli decision makers to target the whole population rather than strictly combatants and destroy life for the Palestinian people. So, you know, again, genocide is a very specific legal term. And when do we use genocide? We use it in Rwanda, we used it in the Holocaust, we used it in Darfur. And so when you use that term, just like when Jimmy Carter said apartheid, peace, not apartheid.
- [44:03]
Jim Acosta
Right.
- [44:04]
Elise Labet
These terms I feel like are getting in the way of what you just said. These people are suffering the problem. And it's pretty clear, I mean, you want to call, you know, we can debate the term genocide again, but it is pretty clear that the Israelis are deliberately blanketing a policy for the people of Gaza to, you know, and at worst, they're not protecting them.
- [44:30]
Jim Acosta
Right.
- [44:30]
Elise Labet
You know, at best, to ratchet up.
- [44:33]
Jim Acosta
The suffering to the point where what, Hamas comes out with the white flag and says, that's it, we give up.
- [44:37]
Elise Labet
Where's Hamas right now? Underground. Underground. Underground. Stealing. You know, the United States even has said that there's no widespread looting of aid by Hamas, but certainly Hamas is looting some of the food. And when I talk to aid groups on the ground, what they say is you have to follow, flood the zone with aid so that if Hamas takes some, it doesn't matter. There's enough food for everybody. I just read a horrible story about this one child in Gaza who was waiting for aid, finally got his aid, said thank you very much, and got killed by a Strike.
- [45:15]
Jim Acosta
Yeah.
- [45:16]
Elise Labet
So, I mean, our is, is. And you know, when you listen and you can say that, you know, some of the language of some of these more far right extremist members of the cabinet that, you know, we don't feed our enemies and they can all go to hell. You know, they can all suffer, we don't care. You can just label it just for, you know, as, as a few extremists, but I think it's pretty clear that the Israelis are not, you know, have more of a, you know, any, any Palestinian is collateral damage type of, you know, attitude. And, and look, you know, someone, you know, I'm Jewish and I have immense, you know, affection for the state of Israel. Over the years, I've written about it and I've, and I've been posted there for CNN on occasion. And, you know, I've been very conflicted. And I know you talked to Peter Beinart. He's been really great about talking about that, about how Jews feel.
- [46:16]
Jim Acosta
Mandy Patinkin, the actor, didn't he do that the other day?
- [46:19]
Elise Labet
Oh, yeah. And my mother even said to me, you know what? I'm Jewish. I love being Jewish, but, you know, I'm embarrassed. And, you know, a friend of mine who is Jewish said to me, you know, what other state that's, you know, at war with another state is responsible for feeding, you know, the people? Why does it have to be our problem?
- [46:39]
Jim Acosta
Yeah.
- [46:39]
Elise Labet
And again, you know, I mean, we, when we were in Iraq, when we were Afghanistan. Yes. Collateral damage. Absolutely. But we never impeded aid from getting through. We never, you know, we always made, you know, allowances for that, for that humanitarian aid to get through. And I go back to that Colin Powell Pottery Barn rule. You break it, you bought it.
- [47:09]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, well, and there's also the matter of winning over hearts and minds and might, making right versus right, making might. And, and, you know, after World War II, what did we do? I mean, the United States, you know, has, you know, it reconstructed, you know, basically Europe and Japan after, after the Second World War. And so, you know, the question is, is, does Netanyahu even understand the history?
- [47:37]
Elise Labet
Well, you know, I, I think that Netanyahu, look, he's got his own political considerations. A lot of people say that these, you know, continuing this war to stay out of jail. Now he's going into Syria. He's, you know, fighting against the Syrian government. He went into Iran, you know, he's, I think it's pretty clear that, and I think even the United States, even the Trump administration recognizes that he is, you know, continuing this war for political means. However, remember how much goodwill or at least kind of, you know, moral authority that the Israelis had After October 7th, everyone was just the whole world horrified. I feel like I did so many segments at that time, the Arabs were saying to Israel, all of them, now, listen, we feel horrible about what happened. Take your time. Build international support for going after Hamas. Do it smartly. And I like to say that the Israelis never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity. Is this a security issue? It was a security issue two years ago.
- [48:46]
Jim Acosta
Well, and there's also. Yeah, no, yeah, go ahead. No, I was going to say, but there's also the issue of Netanyahu. And I, I think part of what's driving this is. And I, I'm not the first to make this observation. I've heard, heard it made by others that, you know, he has domestic political reasons for wanting to continue and prolong this war. And he was caught with his pants down from an intelligence standpoint. His government was embarrassed. There were people internally inside the Israeli intelligence community who were warning, trying to warn that something like this could happen. It happened. There are echoes of 9, 11 and some of that. And it almost feels like. It's almost like what America did after nine, 11 learned the wrong lessons and just went to war against an ideology and went after the wrong people who were behind it. And it just took years and years and years to sort out. Not an exact parallel, but I just.
- [49:50]
Elise Labet
Think that you're right. You're right. And I mean, listen, everybody had problems with what happened in the war in Iraq, right? Whether it was about the choice to go in or whether it was about, you know, Abu Ghraib and all of the horrors that went on and the detentions and the torture. But even then, I never. And yes, there was an element of President Bush wanting to avenge his father, but I feel like those people, they didn't do it for politics. It might have been a misguided decision, but it wasn't to save their own political ass. Right? What Netanyahu is. That's the difference here. Yes, Israelis are learning the wrong lesson. But if you listen to Israeli national security professionals, the defense establishment, I think everybody knows that the law of diminishing returns on this war has kicked in. And the benefit is far less than the cost that Israel is in loss of soldiers, in international outrage, and loss of public opinion. I mean, had Israel done this a little more smartly, and I'm not saying there wouldn't have been problems, they would have had a whole Lot more international support than they do now.
- [51:08]
Jim Acosta
Yeah. In a far stronger position internationally, no question about it. Elise, great stuff, as always. I'm so glad I scratched the itch. And I definitely wanted to have you on to talk about this because it has been on my mind. I've been watching these images and just astonished by what I'm seeing. So thank you, as always, for your great reporting. Really appreciate it. You bet.
- [51:26]
Elise Labet
Good to see you.
- [51:26]
Jim Acosta
Good to see you. Thanks for having me. All right, take care. Thank you. Thank you so much. And I know folks, I've been covering. Did anybody hit. I'm not going to toot my own horn here, but maybe I will a little bit. Did anybody hit Epstein as early and as hard as yours truly when that ridiculous bullshit memo came out on 4th of July weekend by the Department of Justice, trying to sweep the whole thing under the rug? And I've been trying to stay on the case, on Donald Trump's case, the way he's tried to cover this thing up since the get go. But, my goodness, we cannot ignore the rest of the world and we cannot ignore what's taking place in Gaza right now. Just outright human suffering. I am not. I wish I were as as much of an expert on all of this as. As Elise is. I'm not. That's why I rely on people like Elise to come in and inform us, because to me, you know, I. I totally agree with what Elise just said a few moments ago, that. That, you know, I. I support the state of Israel. There's no. There's no question about it. I believe in the state of Israel. I believe in their right to defend themselves. But at some point, you have to ask the question, how much suffering can we stand? How much suffering can we stand? And we cannot, I don't think, as Americans, stomach the kind of suffering that we're seeing unabated in Gaza right now. And yes, we feel for the families who went through the horrors of October 7th. I interviewed many of those families. I interviewed the family of a toddler who was being held hostage. My God, who takes a toddler hostage? Who does that? I totally get that. I understand that. I have friends who live in Israel and I worry about them greatly. Just really wonderful people. I worry about them greatly. And somebody has asked, how. Do you follow Elise? Elise is on substack. Just look, search her name. You'll find her. Great substack. And she writes about foreign policy there. But we have to cover other stories, and I'm glad we did that, and I'm glad we did that with Miles and Olivia, too. Because as we are all focused on Jeffrey Epstein and we should be focused on Jeffrey Epstein and, and Epstein Gate and what Donald Trump is trying to do. I mean, earlier today, again, I will just say for the folks who tuned in late, Donald Trump, you know, for all the folks who say, why don't those reporters at the White House ask tough questions, why don't somebody did somebody did that today. Reporter, what did you think Epstein was stealing those women for? Remember, Trump yesterday said the reason why he severed ties with Jeffrey Epstein. He said Jeffrey Epstein was stealing employees from his club. That's what Donald Trump said. And as I said yesterday, Jeffrey Epstein wasn't running a hotel. He wasn't running a restaurant. He wasn't running a landscaping business. He was taking employees from Donald Trump's spot, including Virginia Giuffre. And a reporter asked today, what did you think Epstein was stealing those women for? Because Donald Trump said he was stealing my employees. Trump ignored the question and walked away. He cannot answer these questions. And first of all, and I said this yesterday, for the folks who are tuning in today, didn't see yesterday I went off on Donald Trump using the word stole. It's disgusting. These are human beings. They're not your property. You may view other human beings as your property, Donald Trump, but that's not the rest of, that's not how the rest of us view other human beings. Just FYI, Donald Trump, we don't look at other human beings as property that can be stolen from us. But anyway, the reason why Donald Trump can't answer these questions is because he has no good answers. He has no good answers. And so what is he going to try to do? And this ties to what I was talking about with Olivia and Miles earlier on in the program. He is going to try by hook or by crook to have the outcome that he wants to see in the 2026 midterms. His Republican foot soldiers are already trying to rig the situation in Texas so they have more House seats down there through the redistricting process. Gavin Newsom may try to do this in California. The courts are going to jump. The lawyers are going to jump in, the courts are going to jump in. It'll go to the MAGA Supreme Court. We'll see what the MAGA Supreme Court does with all of this. But you can bet the farm, you can bet the House that Donald Trump does not want a fair fight, does not want fair elections in 2026. Mark my words, he does not want fair elections in 2026. He only wants elections that will guarantee the outcome of Republicans hanging on to the Congress because for some reason, in the back of his head, maybe it's in the front of his head, who knows? He thinks that he can stall this Jeffrey Epstein thing until after the midterms. He thinks that. And you can also probably bet the House on this one, too. Maybe not the whole House. Maybe just, you know, the kitchen or the. Or the bathroom. You just put in that. If he is going to pardon Ghislaine Maxwell, it's probably going to happen after the midterm. Sort of like what they did with the Medicaid thing. Oh, yeah, we'll do that after the midterms. We'll have that kick in after the midterms. Folks, it's time to wake up. It's time to wake up. It's time to get serious. For my friends out there, and I know some of you may be watching this program and saying, this is how I feel. I'm so depressed, I can't take it anymore. Oh, my goodness, I can't stand it every time he's on tv. Folks, that's got to stop. It's time to get deadly serious about what's going on in this country right now. It is time to get absolutely serious about what's going on in this country right now. The President of the United States does not want to release the Epstein files because probably very likely, there's something really shitty about him in the Epstein files. And so actions speak louder than words. What has he been trying to do? He's been trying to shift our focus away, distract us with, you name it. As I joked about with Stuart Stevens or Rick Wilson the other day, he's probably going to tell us where Jimmy Hoffa is buried next. He's desperate. And as Miles Taylor was saying earlier on in the program, a desperate Donald Trump is a dangerous Donald Trump. A desperate Donald Trump is a dangerous Donald Trump. And so you can't afford to. I know that you guys are exhausted and you're tired and I can't take it anymore. My God, what's with this guy? And yes, we're with you. We understand that we can't afford to be exhausted, can't afford to be depressed. As I've said many times, I'm not so much worried about Trump derangement syndrome as I am Trump depression syndrome. This is not a time to be depressed, folks. It's time to be determined. My thanks to Olivia Troy, my thanks to Miles Taylor, and my thanks to the wonderful Elise Labet. I really am. Just I hope all of you are keeping these people's thoughts in your heart right now because the suffering, the starvation needs to stop. And with that, I'll stop. Thanks, everybody, for watching. Really appreciate it. Still reporting from Washington, I'm Jim Acosta. Have a good evening, everybody. Take care. Bye. Bye.
- [59:47]
Olivia Troy
It's.