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The Jim Acosta Show
Olivia Troye on Trump Ignoring Warnings on Iran and Stuart Stevens on Trump Outing a GOP Congressman's Health Issues
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Stuart Stevens
Foreign.
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Jim Acosta
To the Jim Acosta show, it's another day that ends in Y and the chaos unleashed by Donald Trump in the Middle East. Trump spent the weekend calling on other countries to help the US Secure the straight of Hormuz, where Iranian attacks on ships have set the price of oil soaring, causing gas prices to skyrocket across the United States. Let's discuss with my pal Olivia Troy, who is the national security advisor for former Vice President Mike Pence. Olivia, great to see you. It's been a while since we've caught up, and I think we haven't done this since the war started. You know, we saw Trump earlier today acting like, oh, it's no big deal that, you know, the straight of Hormuz is being bombarded and that the Persian Gulf is being bombarded, and we have this energy crisis that is wreaking havoc all around the world. What do you make of what's happening right now?
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Olivia Troye
You mean the ongoing chaos with no one in sight?
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Jim Acosta
Yes, that part.
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Olivia Troye
Yeah, that part. The national security nightmare that we're seeing unfold before our very eyes. The gas prices that are increasing. And I think you probably saw, I wrote about fertilizer recently because the farmers are wondering how they're going to be impacted and wondering where the food is. I mean, I just, I don't know where this ends. And it's very, very clear to me, Jim, that the Trump team is in over their heads. They don't know how they're going to figure this out either. They, they, they, they've really stepped in at this time.
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Jim Acosta
They really have.
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Stuart Stevens
No.
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Jim Acosta
And speaking of fertilizer, Donald Trump was talking about all of this and he was spreading a lot of it. And he said at one point when he was being asked about the allies coming to help the US with the Strait of Hormuz, he says, we don't need anybody. Let's play this and then let's talk about it.
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Donald Trump
Gonna help? I mean, I'll let you know. I spoke to him yesterday. I don't do a hard sell on them because my attitude is we don't need anybody. We're the strongest nation in the world. We have the strongest military by far in the world. We don't need them. But it's interesting. I'm almost doing it in some cases, not because we need them, but because I want to find out how they react. Because I've been saying for years that if we ever did need them, they won't be there. Not all of them, but they won't be there. I was very Surprised with.
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Jim Acosta
Yeah. I mean, Olivia, if we don't need anybody's help, why was he calling all these allies to give us a hand with this? And I just to give everybody a sense as to what's happening. I mean, it seems as though some of our allies are basically, you know, taking the approach of, well, let's just let Donald Trump fall flat on his face here because we're sick and tired of his crap. The German Foreign Minister Boris Pistorius said, quote, this is not our war. We did not start it. The AP is saying so far, no takers on Trump's call for a coalition to secure the Strait of.
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Olivia Troye
An audio issue. I have just lost your audio.
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Jim Acosta
Oh, you lost my audio again. Oh, goodness. Oh, goodness. Can you hear me now? You can't hear me? No. Can't hear me?
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Olivia Troye
Nope.
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Jim Acosta
All right, well, Olivia, we'll continue on.
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Olivia Troye
I'm going to drop off and come back because I have a lot.
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Jim Acosta
All right, drop off and come back in. I'll tell everybody what's happening right now. But while Olivia, while we get Olivia's audio straight, this is what the Associated Press is saying. They're saying. In the early days of the Iran conflict, Trump had said US Navy vessels would escort oil tankers through the strait, which connects the Persian Gulf to the Gulf of Oman, and downplayed the threat posed by Iran. But as oil prices soared, he and his administration have been forced to consider new options, and including the idea broached this weekend for other countries to join the push with their own warships. And as you're, you know, as I just mentioned a few moments ago, the Germans are basically saying, this is our. This is not our war. We did not start it. And top officials, this is. According to the New York Times, top officials of Japan, Italy, and Australia said today that their countries would not participate in efforts to reopen the Strait of Hormuz. I mean, why would these countries that, you know, have been berated, some of them been berated by Donald Trump for months and months now since his return to office. Why would they come to his rescue at this point? Why would they come to the rescue of the United States at this point, given what we've seen from Donald Trump and his belligerence. And, and so this is just a clear cut example of. This is what happens when Trump diplomacy falls flat on its face, which is where we're at right now. Olivia, you're back with me. I think. I think you can.
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Olivia Troye
Sorry about that.
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Jim Acosta
Okay. That's okay. It's a. It's. We're having a case of the Mondays, as is Donald Trump. But I. I was just explaining that, you know, he says we don't need anybody. And so a lot of the allies are saying, okay, well, that we're not going to help.
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Olivia Troye
Well, and I think what we're learning here is that actions have consequences. Something that all of us, you know, most of us learned in kindergarten. And when you're bullying the world and you're behaving in that way, and you trash all your allies and you complain that they're not paying their share and pulling their weight, and you get yourself unilaterally into a conflict with, you know, in partnership with Israel, this is what happens. I mean, now here we are, and this is why, in this moment, it's called Foreign Diplomacy 101. And I feel like now Trump is sitting here and he's, you know, he's like, okay, well, we don't need them, but. Yes, you do. Yes, you do. Because we are watching a situation continue to escalate, and we are, what, almost three weeks in.
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Jim Acosta
Yeah, exactly. And. And I think you were telling me that when we were chatting about this before coming on today, that he was warned about this, that he was warned about going after Iran during the first administration by officials in the White House.
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Olivia Troye
Yeah, 100%. Like, he was briefed on this. Look, there's a reason that we. We have refrained from doing this in the past. The street was always going to play a big role. And I just, you know, he was told what the repercussions would be back then if he would engage in such a conflict. And fortunately, you know, greater minds prevailed in that moment. I had the conversation with the individual that I know firsthand, was one of the people that talked him off the ledge and told him what would happen if he should engage in bombing Iran and getting into a conflict like this. And now here we are. And I guarantee you that person was likely not in the room this time, although he is back in the Trump administration.
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Jim Acosta
Yeah. And feel free to say that name if you'd like, but if that. If not, that's okay.
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Olivia Troye
That individual would be Keith Kellogg, which was actually my boss at the time.
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Jim Acosta
So Kellogg. So Keith Kellogg tried to warn him not to do this.
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Olivia Troye
General Kellogg.
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Jim Acosta
General Kellogg. And I mean, that's extraordinary. And so he's been warned about this in the past. And the other thing, too, is that Trump keeps saying, we're obliterating things. I don't know if we have that sound, but we should play. He says, we've ob you know, all of this stuff.
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Donald Trump
Let's, let's play this powerful military campaign to end the threats posed by the Iranian regime continued in full force over the past few days. They have been literally obliterated. The Air Force is gone, the navy is gone. Many, many ships have been sunk. They're war fighting ships, but I guess they didn't know how to use them. And anti aircraft is decimated. Their radar is gone and their leaders are gone. Other than that, they're doing quite.
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Jim Acosta
Yeah, I mean, Olivia, if you, and hopefully you can still hear me. If they've been obliterated, then I guess that's it, we can just go home. Then why are we still doing this? And he says they don't have leaders. Yes, the Ayatollah's son is the leader as far as we know. I mean, although Trump was saying he, you didn't know what was going on with the, the new Ayatollah, whether he's dead, alive, injured or what. We don't have good intelligence on that. But if they've been obliterated, what are we doing here?
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Olivia Troye
Well, that's a great question. I mean, that was just, you know, the, also the claims of we had, you know, obliterated their nuke program. So I'm still trying to figure out like why aren't we're engaging? So which one is it? Right, which, which, which story is it? Because thus far the story has changed on a daily basis and so is a narrative that's following this. And I mean, if that's the case, then let's bring our troops home now so that we don't lose any more lives. And, and if that's the case, then like figure out how you, how to get yourself out of this conflict that you've created regionally so that less innocent lives are lost while we're, while we're conducting our affairs in this way.
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Jim Acosta
Yeah, I mean, what's the long term concern with this, Olivia? I mean, it seems to me that this can drag out indefinitely and the Iranians knew exactly how to play this. Just destabilize the region, launch rockets and missiles and drones and whatever they can at, you know, US partners in the region and drive up the tension.
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Olivia Troye
Look, there's no doubt that Iran has always thought of this being a possibility. Right? They have, they're well aware that this, this could happen someday. And I think that they always, they play the long game and so I think they're going to wait this out. I mean, I think they're, their military posture has always been around the Strait. They know that that is one of their powerful tools to use. And I think between what we're seeing here regionally across the region, now that this is becoming more of a wider conflict along the way, I don't see how we get out of this. My biggest concern is that we are going to see an increase of boots on the ground. And what does that look like? Well, it looks like Iraq again. I mean, a longer term, prolonged conflict which Americans, I mean, we're seeing Americans do not support. Americans do not want this.
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Jim Acosta
Yeah. And I mean, this is, this is dividing maga, it seems. I mean, I guess the polls show that a lot of MAGA Republicans will support Donald Trump no matter what he does. But, you know, you got Megyn Kelly and Mark Levine yelling at each other. And I mean, the other issue is, is why didn't Marco Rubio war. I thought he was the serious foreign policy adult in the room. Why didn't he warn Donald Trump not to do this? And there's been some reporting that JD Vance was very cool to this whole idea. I don't know, maybe that's him putting that stuff out there. Who knows? Because they're all posturing for 2028. But, you know, whatever happened to his little boys club?
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Stuart Stevens
Weren't.
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Jim Acosta
Weren't all these little boys supposed to keep him out of these fixes, these jams?
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Olivia Troye
Well, I think they're falling into the trap of what happens when you go into Trump's circle. You realize that you cannot control the chaos and that at some point you're going to be used to enable the chaos. And I think what it comes down to is weakness and lack of courage to go into that room and tell him straight out, like, I mean, this is a moment where those two individuals should have gone in there and completely, like, explained to him the consequence and talked him out of it. I don't know who always in the room. I've heard different stories about departments not being included. But I will say this about Marco Rubio and J.D. vance. Like, this will and should follow them because they are 100%, like, part of this. They own this along with Donald Trump.
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Jim Acosta
Right. And Marco Rubio. I mean, there's all this talk. Marco Rubio is going to be the heir apparent in 2028. Earth to Maga. Marco Rubio is. I mean, he will pretend that he's part of maga, but he is a hawk. He is a foreign policy hawk. And that. I thought that was the. I thought that was the antithesis of maga. I thought that was something that, you know, you know, do that maybe they don't have any principles. You know, Earth to Jim. Maybe it's just dawning on, dawning on me now that they, they really had no principles. Just whatever Donald Trump says is, is what MAGA wants. But they professed, they claimed that it was about not getting in entangled in foreign wars and forever wars and endless wars. But that's gone out the window. Marco Rubio is whispering in Trump's ear.
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Olivia Troye
Yeah, well, that was their entire campaign. Right. That's all we heard throughout the presidential campaign, was that if you voted for Kamala Harris, that we would go to war with Iran. Steven Miller said it, others said it. I mean, that was their go to slogan. And now here we are. So, I mean, you know, but you're right, unfortunately, it seems like Donald Trump can do no wrong. Although I do think that there will continue to be fractions in this landscape, and I don't know where that lands in the long run. But in the meantime, we are fracturing our global posture around the world, is what I would say. And I think ultimately the people that pay for this are Americans in our Homeland Security here. Right. Because we are concerned about what this looks like going forward.
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Jim Acosta
Yeah. Well, and so I'm so glad you brought up the Harris campaign, because I remember when you were helping Kamala Harris's campaign, the Trump people would go after the fact that Liz Cheney was endorsing Kamala Harris and that she was helping Kamala Harris's campaign. And Donald Trump would go out there and JD Vance would go out there and say what a warmonger Liz Cheney is. And then if, you know, if you, if you support Kamala Harris, that Liz Cheney is going to get Donald Trump into all these wars in the Middle East. And, and here we are.
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Olivia Troye
Yeah, well, you know, now we've gone into Venezuela, now we've gone, started regional conflict in the Middle east and gone to war with Iran. I knowing their posture on Cuba because they were obsessed with that the first time around. And that is definitely a Marco Rubio special. I'm sure that's probably coming next. And so there's checking off the boxes going along the way. And we've already, you know, we've already gone after Ecuador. We've seen that we've engaged in military action there. So I, you know, and if you look at Project 2025, I remind people that when they talk about the Western Hemisphere in that whole agenda, they really lay out a plan for how they're going to monitor our own Backyard, which is Latin America in the Western hemisphere. So I think, you know, it's ironic we've gone full circle here where the politics of their campaign and their hypocrisy is now front and center. And, you know, voters have a short term memory. I just hope that people are taking mental notes and, you know, when we're watching what is happening here, I mean, again, I'm very concerned about what this looks like and I'm very concerned about having American troops on the ground again.
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Jim Acosta
Yeah, and you mentioned Cuba. I mean, I'm glad you mentioned that because I do think we should touch on it. I mean, they're saying today that Cuba had an island wide blackout today. 11 million people are now in the dark in the country of Cuba. And, and this is in part because the energy blockade that Trump has put on Cuba, he's of course decapitated. Well, he's taken out Maduro in Venezuela. Venezuela was a big energy supplier to Cuba. But I mean, Olivia, what, I mean, what do you think were warnings issued about Cuba? I mean, that's the thing that I wonder about during the first administration because it seems to me, and I talk about this just from the standpoint, my dad was a Cuban refugee and I've studied the issue, been to the island a few times over the years, reporting and whatnot. If you take out the Castros or that regime in Cuba, you could unleash a massive humanitarian crisis that would very much affect the state of Florida. I mean, you would have people probably taking to makeshift boats and rafts like we used to see in the 90s and the 2000s, and you would have a humanitarian crisis. And the last time I checked, Donald Trump's administration via ice, they were picking up and deporting Cubans. And so, you know, what happens if Cuba, you know.
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Olivia Troye
Yeah, I think that you're 100% like, you're exactly right. I think that could lead to a significant migration crisis that we, we would be left grappling with. And I think we're very, we're very well aware of how Stephen Miller would feel about that, given the policies that are in place with this administration. And I would, I would really welcome understanding then how Marco Rubio is going to handle that. Because so far, you know, we have this whole situation with what we've done to Venezuela here in the United States, and now we've engaged in Venezuela. So now are we going to, what are we going to do with Cuba in terms of immigration policies if we do engage in a situation like this? And here the Fact of the matter is, Jim, like, they love to say libertad, they love to say freedom for these countries and we're on the side of the people. But when it comes to the aftermath and the planning of what comes next, of what happens to the people that are living in that country, after we go in and take out the leadership, there's no follow through and they don't care. And that is my biggest concern, is that I think Trump likes to go through and check the box and say, okay, look, I did this, I took out this bad person. And then the aftermath of that, I think is the critical question, okay, so what comes next? And I think we should be asking that on all these situations now because I'm not seeing the there, there of what we're going to do for these people and how we're going to work in partnership with them to help them get through that next phase. And, you know, my concern is that we're just going to go around like, creating anti American sentiment around the world. That's my concern. Right. Because at the beginning it's like, okay, you've gotten rid of this horrific regime. We all agree these people are not good people that are in charge of them.
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Jim Acosta
Yeah.
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Olivia Troye
But what is, what does the day after look like?
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Jim Acosta
And Trump doesn't care about that. He doesn't care about the details. He, he just, you know, improvises and bullshits his way from one thing to the next. And, you know, I think it goes back to what we were talking about earlier with Rubio and J.D. vance. And you saw this up close and personal with Mike Pence. Your, your old boss, Mike Pence. Mike Pence sold his soul to Donald Trump. And yes, at the end of the day, on January 6th, thank, thank God, Mike Pence did the right thing on that day. We don't necessarily think JD Vance, or at least I don't necessarily think JD Vance would do the right thing in, in the same kind of situation. But this is what happens when you, you go in league with Donald Trump. It blows up in your face. It blows up in all of our faces.
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Olivia Troye
Yeah. And it follows you. It follows you forever. I mean, I call it the Pence trap. That's what they're falling into right now. And I think, you know, I think there's a group of people there that, you know, perhaps think that I'll be the one that'll manage the chaos. I don't know how you would go into that, the second administration with that frame of mind, because it's pretty obvious that when Things go sideways, it doesn't matter. You will be the one and that will get thrown under the bus. Right. We know that this is classic Donald Trump along the way to what end? But again, like, the, the greater consequence here is the one that impacts all of us and that we are creating, like, this universal isolation of who we are as a country. By the way, we are behaving right now towards the entire world, except for people like Putin, who apparently we remain very close to.
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Jim Acosta
Yeah, no, Trump's last buddy will always be Vladimir Putin, there's no question about it. But the rest of the allies that have been long standing friends of the United States, you know, Trump has issued the call, please help us with the Strait of Hormuz. And he is being left on read, as the kids say. Red, I should say. Olivia Troy, great to see you, as always. Thanks so much. Thanks for tolerating our case of the Mondays here on the, on the technical side, but great to see.
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Olivia Troye
I blame Trump for everything.
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Jim Acosta
Yeah, we'll get him to straighten that. We'll call the island, too. Yeah, we'll see if the, the Germans can help us with that. Thanks, Olivia. Great to see you. Appreciate it. All right, you too. And, you know, you know, today was one of those days where he, of course, has a batshit crazy, a press conference and apparently was over at the Kennedy Center. I, I mean, he likes to call it the Trump Kennedy center, but it was at the Kennedy center. And he's talking about how he wants to tear apart Kennedy center. And, oh, by the way, he's fielding questions on Iran. Help. You know, somebody make that make sense for me. But the other thing that came up during this weird, crazy press conference he was having, he somehow accidentally disclosed the dire health prognosis for a member of his Republican House conference. Republican member of Congress on the House side. And it was a deeply embarrassing moment, caused groans in the room. I do want to talk to, let's, let's bring in Stuart Stevens to talk about Trump and the Republican Party and where they are right now. Stu, how are you, man? Can you hear me? Is everything good? Oh, now we can't hear Stu. We can't hear Stu. All right, stand by. We'll get Stu there in just a second. But I, I, let's play a little bit of that video if we can. This is Trump talking about a member of Congress, a Republican House member who apparently has this very scary health situation. And Trump just brings it up next to Mike Johnson at the Kennedy center while he's taking questions on Iran. It was one of those days. Let's listen to this and talk about on the other side. Congressman Neil Dunn of Florida had had some real health challenges, and it was very serious and had had a pretty grim diagnosis. And I mentioned it to the president. I said, Congressman Dunn is a real champion and a patriot because he's still coming to work. And if others got this diagnosis, they would be apt to go home and retire.
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Donald Trump
What was the diagnosis?
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Jim Acosta
It was. I mean, I think it was a terminal diagnosis.
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Donald Trump
He would be dead by June.
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Jim Acosta
Okay, that wasn't public, but yeah. Okay, that's.
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Donald Trump
It was.
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Jim Acosta
It was grim. That's what I was going to say. I don't think with the heart. Yeah. So that was Donald Trump talking about a Florida Congressman, Neil Dunn, Republican. And this is according to the hell. He received a terminal diagnosis for a heart problem, prompting concerns that the House GOP super slim majority would crumble and lead, you know, Trump to panic about what's taking place there in the House. In terms of the majority there are for Mike Johnson. Let's see. I think Stu's back with you. Can you hear me now?
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Stuart Stevens
Yeah, I can hear you. Can you hear me okay?
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Jim Acosta
Yeah, I can hear you just fine. Hey, thanks for coming on the show.
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Stuart Stevens
No, listen, great to be here.
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Jim Acosta
Did you see this nutty moment that Trump.
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Stuart Stevens
I. There is no bottom. You know, Jim, one of the things that we used to say in the Republican Party actually was true was character's destiny. Character counts, you know, And Peggy Newton wrote a book called When Character Is King, A bio of Trump, of Reagan. And I mean, this is just playing out on so many levels. Trump, it just has no character. It's. Everything is transactional. I mean, he said that, you know, ashamed the guy died because he's. For me.
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Jim Acosta
Right.
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Stuart Stevens
Like, really.
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Jim Acosta
I mean, yeah, that's what mattered to Trump in that moment was that was the majority that they had was the majority was one vote majority. And that's what Trump seemed to be really concerned about.
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Stuart Stevens
And, you know, if Democrats were going to be fair, then someone on the other side should just kill themselves. So they could kind of even the score here. Yeah, it's. You know, the thing about this is this really affects the country. This is something you've talked about a lot, Tim. In our world, the president is more than just the chief executive. He does embody something that is aspirational, that we look up to. It always has been that way in this country. And the lasting damage that's being done. You think about a generation that's come up and They've seen Trump as normal.
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Jim Acosta
Yeah.
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Stuart Stevens
So of course you have these groups of youngest Republicans who are pro Nazi. Of course you have these groups, you know, these people running as openly anti Semitic, misogynist. It's. Why not. And that the party has just been so silent on this. How do you sit there and watch a colleague be thrust into a clearly traumatic experience for his family and those loved ones and, and not say anything?
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Jim Acosta
And, and what if, what if the family, not everybody in the family knows about it, you know, congressional staff or, you know, Mike Johnson apparently knew about it, and I guess he told Trump about it, and Trump was amused by it so much that he thought he would bring it up during this.
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Stuart Stevens
I think Trump brought it up because he was getting credit for saving him. You know, he's the one that got him the medical treatment.
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Jim Acosta
Oh, okay, I see that.
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Stuart Stevens
Otherwise he would have been dead by June, but, you know, I got him.
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Jim Acosta
According to their story. Yeah.
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Stuart Stevens
Yes. I mean, you know, first of all, what does it say about the American medical system that not to die, you have to have, like, connections with the President? You know, I mean, that sort of is like. Is it that they're kind of like, you know, the way the Soviet Union used to work, you really, you know, need to know someone on the politburo so you could get like, in a good hospital.
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Jim Acosta
Right. And. And I suppose it's. He got that treatment, he got that care because of the one vote majority. If they had 15, it was a 15 majority. It would have been tough luck, buddy. I'm sorry. You know.
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Stuart Stevens
Oh, man.
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Jim Acosta
You know, make this stuff up. But, Stu, I mean, I, I do wonder what you're thinking right now with what's taking place in the Middle East. You know, I remember when you were advising Mitt Romney and, you know, really the establishment part of the Republican Party. I mean, you go back to George W. Bush days. Okay, Bush did piss off some, some allies and going into Iraq and so on, but there was some semblance of a coalition this time around. Trump is asking for help from pretty key US Allies to help secure the Strait of Hormuz. And they're telling him to piss up a flagpole, basically.
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Stuart Stevens
Well, I mean, call me crazy, but isn't it better to line up allies before you go to war rather than you go into war and you get in over your head and you need them and you go, well, we really don't need you, but we want it. I mean, how many countries did they put together for the first Gulf War? I mean, it was north of 50. And then I think for the second Gulf War, it was in the 30s. And that was done with a lot of care and deliberation and compromise and talk. And it wasn't capricious. So he just launches into this. I mean, I said the other day, I think, like, your average Southern wedding planner can think further ahead than Donald Trump. Like, how are we. We're going to have a reception, you know, what are we going to have? You know, you have to think about it. You don't just sit there and have the wedding and go, well, what are we going to do afterwards?
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Jim Acosta
Yeah, don't put Trump in charge of hiring the DJ and the florist. That's not going to work out.
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Stuart Stevens
I mean, and it's such a degradation of what it means to be in the United States military that you're being used as this sort of capricious, capricious whim of this unbalanced, not well educated, uninformed man who clearly is in decline, who's getting some. He and Pete Hegsett are getting some sort of weird, you know, almost erotic charge out of this.
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Jim Acosta
Yes.
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Stuart Stevens
You know, well, you know, for we, we blew, you know what if you say Trump said yesterday something, you know, we blew it up, we might go back and do it again just for fun. And the way that Hegsett talks about this sort of glee of no quarter, you know, it's like.
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Jim Acosta
And Trump in the baseball cap at Dover. At Dover, he's asked questions about, can you say anything about the service members who were, who were lost? Next question. I mean, this is somebody who, you know, he is missing something. He's missing a soul.
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Stuart Stevens
Yeah. I mean, it's like they watched, you know, a gladiator and they decided that the, you know, mad king, the emperor, was the person you want to sympathize with, not the people in the ring. Not, you know, Russell Crowe is not the hero. It's, it's, you know, the crazy Caesar and, and it's so kind of sick. And look, all our lives, you know, we've known people like Pete Hetzek, we know weirdos like Stephen Miller, we've known freaks like, you know, Steve Bannon. It's just the idea that you would put any of them in positions of authority to work through these deep personal issues on a public scale is just. It's just so appalling.
- [29:14]
Jim Acosta
Yeah. And what about the irony, I know that the issue of Ukraine is near and dear to your heart. What about the irony of the United States going to the Ukrainians for help dealing with the drone threat posed by the Iranians. And, you know, the Russians are here. They. Here are the Russians helping out the Iranians, because, of course, they're going to do the same thing to us that. That we've been doing to them in Ukraine. And we're turning to the Ukrainians for help. And. And Zelensky is, because he's a gracious guy, is saying, yes, we will help you.
- [29:47]
Stuart Stevens
Yeah. You know, I was in Ukraine when we went to war in Iran. And I mean, immediately people were talking about this, that what they have done in Ukraine on the drone front is something. It's just difficult to grasp how far they've gone. And, you know, there was a period when the war started, it was all about artillery. The imbalance in artillery. Most of the casualties were majority were artillery. And then there was a drone movement by the Ukrainians, which Russians kind of matched for a while. And just in the last six months or so, it seems that Ukrainians have just taken a quantum step above that. And I was in a couple of drone labs, and they have all these small labs all over the country, you know, with, like, people who in another era would have been IT directors or, you know, designing video games, and now they're making drones. And, you know, I saw examples of amusing AI in some of these drones that it's just. It's extraordinary. And that's one of the great ironies, like you're saying that the United States military is the one that needs Ukraine. And, you know, I know the people inside the Pentagon, they're smart people, are capable people. They know this. And when Trump says the last person that we need help from is Zelensky, I don't know. You know, I just go back to this. Think about it. If you're a Ukrainian and you look at the national ethos of your country and your character, and you're proud, it is Zelensky. But Zelensky just represents the best of what it means to fight for freedom, to be. For a pluralistic society, for decency, not to murder people. And the way in which the Ukrainians care more about Russian prisoners than the Russians care about their own servicemen is just so telling. And, you know, you look at these prisoner exchanges, the Russians go back looking better than they did when they went into the front. And you look at the Ukrainians that come back and they've been tortured and, you know, like something out of concentration camps and that. What does that do? It. It changes how you think of yourself as a citizen, as a person, and then look at the United States, who do you look up to? Pete Hegsett. It reminds me of the guy that would challenge somebody to a fight in high school, you know, and not show up behind the crystal after the game. It just sort of just can't take
- [32:25]
Jim Acosta
a punch probably either.
- [32:26]
Stuart Stevens
Yeah. I mean, just screams punk and.
- [32:29]
Jim Acosta
Yeah. You know, and I think that the, you know, the contrast that you're setting up is absolutely perfect because Zelensky is exactly the right person that the Ukrainians needed in that moment, and Trump is exactly the wrong person, the worst possible person that the United States needs in this moment. And I just wonder how the only option I see for Donald Trump right now is to pretend that he won and just. And just end this now. Just stop. Because the more he gets himself, the more he trips on his dick on this, the worse this is going to get.
- [33:05]
Stuart Stevens
Yeah. First of all, I mean, let's don't forget that a few months ago, a few months ago, we absolutely ended any chance of Iran having a nuclear weapon.
- [33:17]
Jim Acosta
Remember that? It was total destruction, obliterated.
- [33:20]
Stuart Stevens
And those in the Pentagon who suggested, well, maybe that isn't completely accurate, were fired.
- [33:27]
Jim Acosta
Right.
- [33:27]
Stuart Stevens
So now. Okay, well, we forgot about that. You know, so now we're going back. You know, he has this tremendous opportunity to prepare the country for this. In the State of the Union. He doesn't. Nothing talks about Ukraine for under a minute. The largest land war in Europe since World War II. And it has a. Just. How. How is it wars end when both sides agree they end.
- [33:56]
Jim Acosta
Right.
- [33:56]
Stuart Stevens
And it's not going to end because Donald Trump feels something in his bones and it's so arrogant. I mean, yes, it is great that the regime would be attacked. I mean, there's not. Not a decent person in the world doesn't look at this and think that it's the absolute most barbaric, cruel, repressive regime. But if you want to get people to support you. I don't understand. Okay, we're going to kill these horrible people at the top, but then we're going to go blow up your water and we're going to blow up your oil. So it's going to rain oil on you, and that's going to make you really want to support us. Like, how does that work? That doesn't work.
- [34:42]
Jim Acosta
Yeah. No. And I mean, there's the point of, you know, in Venezuela, they take out Maduro, the vice president steps in, the regime continues. Here, the ayatollah is killed, his son takes over, the regime continues. And, you know, in Venezuela, I guess they had teams on the ground in Iran. We don't even have teams on the ground that we know of.
- [35:05]
Stuart Stevens
Yeah, yeah.
- [35:06]
Jim Acosta
I guess they talk about deploying Marines, 2500 Marines, 5000 Marines, something along those lines. But I get the sense that he is in no mood to commit ground troops. He may say it's an option and he may leave it out there. But I, I mean maybe he is crazy and incompetent enough to do this, but that to me sets the United States up. I mean, for a, for Iraq part two, if we start sending in ground troops in that, in that kind of capacity, seems to me.
- [35:34]
Stuart Stevens
Yeah. And what is the goal?
- [35:37]
Jim Acosta
What is the goal?
- [35:38]
Stuart Stevens
I, I don't, you know, I, I suppose we would all consider it a success if Iran launched the Jeffersonian democracy next week and they had, you know, referendums with free and fair parties and maybe it looked like when this Berlin Wall came down, you know, the iron curtain fell and you had companies like in Czechoslovakia that read, you know, elections for the first time. It just ain't going to work that way. Right. And you know, it's so arrogant to think of Iran is a great country, this Persian empire of tremendously talented, educated people who don't the idea that they're being bullied by the United States and taunted and why it's just such the worst way to go about trying to win hearts and minds.
- [36:32]
Jim Acosta
Yeah.
- [36:33]
Stuart Stevens
And I mean, look, we saw in World War II, how did it work out? You know, you start out bombing ball bearing factories to end the war, you end up bombing Dresden and all it does is increase the resistance among the population.
- [36:47]
Jim Acosta
That's right.
- [36:48]
Stuart Stevens
The London blitz only increased their determination to fight. It's not like we haven't stress test this.
- [36:53]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, no, it's so true. And I think that bombing that girls school at the very beginning of all this, I think the United States immediately at that point lost any hope for, as you were saying earlier, a coalition having the allies on the side of the U. S. I was talking about this with Olivia earlier. German.
- [37:13]
Stuart Stevens
That was a great conversation.
- [37:14]
Jim Acosta
Yeah. And apparently the German defense minister has said this is not our war. The Jap, the Japanese, the Australians are in no mood to jump in and help. I mean that's a pretty dire situation. That is not an American situation that I'm accustomed to growing up in this country for the last half century. The US Is always attracting the support of allies and our friends around the world, but they don't they, I think they want to let Donald Trump fall in his face. Quite frankly.
- [37:42]
Stuart Stevens
Yeah. I mean, and when we were able to do that, it's because we did represent something that aspired to be good. It aspired to have a positive impact. And in our history, when we faltered at that, and this was one of the great tragedies of Vietnam, it has a psychic repercussions throughout the generations. And so the military rebuilt for that. They redefined themselves. And now just being thrown at this problem without any consideration of what the end game is. And, you know, should I say Marco
- [38:28]
Jim Acosta
Rubio talked him out of this? I mean, you know, I remember looked at Marco Rubio as a running mate so many years ago, and, and Rubio has always been treated as like this serious guy around D.C. and he's just completely. I don't. I don't get it.
- [38:47]
Stuart Stevens
You know, I, I look, you know, I think if Donald Trump told Marco Rubio that he had to have one of his children as tribute, that Rubio might be able to screw up the courage to say, could he pick the child? But I think that's it. You know, Rubio, who in many ways was sort of an accidental figure. I worked for Charlie Crist. Charlie Crist should have run for governor again, not for the Sen.
- [39:14]
Jim Acosta
Right.
- [39:14]
Stuart Stevens
When he did, he clearly was out of sync with the primary. So Rubio gets elected, and then, remember, he's on the COVID of Time magazine. The Republican savior, which really, if we're honest, it is more a dei, that is DEI at work than anything else. Because he was Hispanic. It wasn't some great record of achievement. Yeah. And he was seen as embodying something that was an American story. Son of a bartender. Now he's running for president. You know, his family leaving Cuba, though there's a question of when they left Cuba.
- [39:45]
Jim Acosta
Right.
- [39:46]
Stuart Stevens
Anyway, but it. He just. He was broken by Trump and everything that he predicted about Trump. The same with Lindsey Graham. Everything they said about that would happen with Trump in 16 proved to be true and worse.
- [40:05]
Jim Acosta
Yes.
- [40:08]
Stuart Stevens
And, you know, I think Trump just takes great pleasure in humiliating these people. I think that's why he appoints people like Pete headset and RFK Jr. And Kristi Noem. Not because he doesn't know that they're not just idiots and fools. But he can make United States senators vote for him. I can make you vote for Pete Hegsett, a guy who you wouldn't have to come cut your lawn before.
- [40:35]
Jim Acosta
Yeah. He has a nose for lesser human beings than himself, which is extraordinary. Which is a talent. You know, it's a real.
- [40:44]
Stuart Stevens
It's a Real totalitarian.
- [40:46]
Jim Acosta
He's like, I can dog walk that guy. I want that guy.
- [40:49]
Stuart Stevens
Element of humiliation. The way Saddam would make families pay for the bullet that executed their loved ones.
- [40:54]
Jim Acosta
Jesus.
- [40:55]
Stuart Stevens
Yeah. And, and you know, Roger Wicker didn't have to confirm Pete exit. He could have, you know, chairman of the Armed Services Committee. He could have said to Trump behind yours, look, there's thousands of qualified conservatives. We're not going to confirm this person. Let's don't have an embarrassing situation. Pick someone who's a good conservative who we can confirm and feel good about it.
- [41:23]
Jim Acosta
Yeah.
- [41:24]
Stuart Stevens
But no, Roger didn't. He just went along with.
- [41:27]
Jim Acosta
Is wild to watch those briefings when Hegseth comes out there. And to think that this character was confirmed by United States senators.
- [41:37]
Stuart Stevens
Yeah.
- [41:37]
Jim Acosta
The job of United States Senator used to be a serious thing.
- [41:41]
Stuart Stevens
And it's a self limiting quality that these Republicans are doing. They don't have to do this, but they're voluntarily making themselves small and insignificant.
- [41:55]
Jim Acosta
Yeah.
- [41:56]
Stuart Stevens
And you know, I just. On a human level, I find it so strange because getting elected to U.S. senate is a real pain in the ass, man.
- [42:03]
Jim Acosta
It's not easy.
- [42:04]
Stuart Stevens
You have to do all this embarrassing stuff. It's exhausting. You have to beg people for money. So finally you win.
- [42:10]
Jim Acosta
Yeah.
- [42:11]
Stuart Stevens
So you can wake up and do what Donald Trump tells you to. Really? Is that the payoff?
- [42:17]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, it's not much of a payoff these days, nor is being one of his cabinet secretaries, but. Well, Stu, great conversation as always. Good catching up with you, man. And I'm.
- [42:27]
Stuart Stevens
Great to see you, man.
- [42:28]
Jim Acosta
Ukraine, okay.
- [42:29]
Stuart Stevens
Now it's. Ukraine is winning and I think it's a question of time. But, you know, they're saving the world as we know it. Because if we're Russia to take Ukraine, the idea that you could get in a car and drive from Paris to Warsaw would mean not for long.
- [42:49]
Jim Acosta
Yeah.
- [42:50]
Stuart Stevens
So we owe them a great debt. Thank you, Jim. And we owe you a debt for what you're doing, man.
- [42:55]
Jim Acosta
Oh, hey, right back at you.
- [42:56]
Stuart Stevens
You're out. You're out there.
- [42:58]
Jim Acosta
Well, you know, Trump put me on his. Put me on his hit list over the weekend. He put out some tweet that had all of our pictures on there. And you know, it's. This is a guy who's in a war right now, but badge.
- [43:10]
Stuart Stevens
Badge of Honor. Absolutely.
- [43:12]
Jim Acosta
Thanks, man.
- [43:13]
Stuart Stevens
I appreciate it. All right, buddy. Good to see you.
- [43:16]
Jim Acosta
Good to see you. Thanks so much. Appreciate it. You know, while we were. Excuse. Great. I just always enjoy talking with him and we Used to be kind of, I, I, you know, I don't want to give away the whole deal, but, you know, like, Stu and I got along quite well back in the day when I was working at my old place and he was working for Mitt Romney. And I'd see Stu out on the campaign draw and this, there was a time where you could, you could get along with people okay when you were covering them. And, and Stu is one of those guys always willing to offer some of his, his Southern gentlemanly wisdom, as he often does. So I appreciate it very much. Two quick things before we go. One is apparently this just happened. The Kennedy center board, which has been stocked by Donald Trump's lackeys, they have approved the plan to close the Kennedy center for two years. Yes, the same Kennedy center that was defaced and vandalized by Donald Trump, he vandalized a living memorial to a slain President John F. Kennedy by putting his name on it. Now Trump, because he's, he's upset and he's sad and his feelings are hurt that all of these artists and productions have said, we're not going to perform at the Kennedy center, we're out of here. Trump is now saying, oh, the Kennedy center needs all these renovations and stuff. Apparently they're going to close the Kennedy center for two years. I, I have to think that there are going to be some legal challenges to that. But I want to, I want to go back to a theme that I was talking about with Stu and Olivia earlier on in the program and that is about the character and leadership of Donald Trump in this moment right now. And I, there's one moment that I think there's, there are so many moments and I can't, it's hard for me to say this moment more than anything else sums things up. But I will say on this Monday that this moment more than anything else might sum things up as to where we are right now at this press conference, this so called press conference that Donald Trump had at the Kennedy center earlier today, before his self appointed board decided to shut down the Kennedy center, was talking about, of course, the Iran war. And at some point, I guess he was trying to brag about his national security chops and his foreign affairs bona fides and counter terrorism street cred and so on. And he made the claim, a claim that he's made before, that he had warned the world that Osama bin Laden would try to attack the World Trade center on 9 11. Let's, let's play this and talk about
- [45:50]
Donald Trump
it, about the Straight that it would be a weapon, which I predicted a long time ago. Predicted all of this stuff. You guys were very generous in that. I predicted all of it. I predicted Osama bin Laden would knock out the World Trade Center. I made that prediction a year before he did. I said, you better get him, he's a bad guy. I watched him be interviewed one time and I said, that's a bad guy. You better get him. One year before. Exactly. I wrote it in a book. You can even check. About a year before the World Trade center came down, President Clinton actually had a shot at him and he didn't take it. Unfortunately, I'm not blaming him for that, but he didn't take it.
- [46:32]
Jim Acosta
And yeah, I mean that is a lie. I mean the American people need to understand what Donald Trump just said there for folks who aren't up to speed on this, that he had warned the world. He'd written a book and talked about how Osama bin Laden was going to attack, carry out a terrorist attack on the United States. That is a lie. I don't know if we have the screenshot of the Associated Press that a fact check on this years ago. This has been fact checked by the Associated Press. It has been Fact checked by factcheck.org it has been fact checked by CNN. Daniel Dale, the great CNN fact checker was on social media earlier today saying that no, this did not happen. Donald Trump did not write a book that predicted that Osama bin Laden would carry out a terrorist attack on the United States. And, and this just goes to show you that what Donald Trump says and we, and for the viewers of the show that, that, you know, watch this regularly. I understand that you, you know full well that Donald Trump is a liar. But for the folks who may happen to catch this on their phone somewhere, for the folks who maybe Fox will put up a clip of me trashing Donald Trump on this, but this is the factcheck.org fact check that's false. Trump's book criticized the Clinton administration for its haphazard handling of multiple threats. He mentioned bin Laden as one of those threats, but he made no predictions about bin Laden's role in the September 11, 2001 attacks and offered no recommendation to take him out. And this is the lone reference to bin Laden and Trump's book that he's talking about in America. We deserve. This is the book he wrote in January. Trump wrote all these books for money. Back in those, wrote the book. You know, somebody wrote it and then Donald Trump put his name on it. You know like when he builds a casino or a hotel or an office building or whatever, he puts his name on it. But this is what it says. Instead of one looming crisis hanging over us, we face a bewildering series of smaller crises, flashpoints, standoffs, and hotspots. We're not playing the chess game to end all chess games anymore. We're playing tournament chess. One master against many rivals. One day, we'll all be assured that Iraq is under full control. The UN Inspectors have done their work. Everything's fine, not to worry. The next day, the bombing begins. Yada, yada, yada. One day, we're told a shadowy figure with no fixed address named Osama bin Laden is public enemy number one, and US Jet fighters lay waste to his camp in Afghanistan. That is it. That is the reference to Osama bin Laden in Donald Trump's book about this that came out before 9 11. No mention whatsoever that bin Laden was going to try to attack the United States. I just want to make this point very clear for the folks who are watching this at home, because he is repeating this lie over and over again. Donald Trump is not just a person who lies. He's a person who repeats the same lie over and over again. And he does this as has been told by people who have been closely associated with him over the years. If you tell a lie often enough, Donald Trump believes people will believe it as the truth. And this is what he does. And that is what makes him so dangerous right now when it comes to being the commander in chief. We are right now caught in the beginnings of a quagmire in Iran being led by a President of the United States who lies constantly. Not just lying about what we're doing in the Middle east right now, not just lying about the toll that is being paid by the American people. He claims that the price that people are paying at the pump is no big deal. It's a small price to pay. He paid. He says, how is it a small price to pay if you rely on driving to and from work every day? How is it a small price to pay if your livelihood, for example, depends on automotive transit? I mean, to me, that is another lie. But just keep this in mind. If you hear over the next several days, Donald Trump continue to tell this lie about Osama bin Laden. You can say. You can say, aha. Jim told me on his show that this is a crock of shit. And it is a crock of shit, just like just about everything that comes out of his mouth. And that is what makes this moment Ladies and gentlemen, so deeply dangerous. We are on a knife's edge in the Middle east right now. Donald Trump is calling out to American allies and saying, come help us. We need help securing the Strait of Hormuz so these ships can go through, so the price of oil can come down, so the price of the pump can come down. And guess what? Long standing US Allies, some of America's best friends, they're not answering the call. They're waiting to see what we're all, I guess, going to see here in the coming days and weeks. And that is whether or not Donald Trump falls flat on his face yet again. Except this time there are lives at stake. This time there are the lives of American soldiers at stake. The lives of American soldiers that he won't even comment on when he's asked about it. The lives of American soldiers when they, when they come home deceased at Dover. He can't even take a baseball cap to recognize their sacrifice. And this President of the United States, he can't even tell a straight story about what happened on 9 11. He has to somehow claim that he warned the public about 911 when that didn't even happen. That's what we're up against right now, folks. We're up against having a commander in chief who has no business being commander in chief in this moment. And the whole world, the security of the whole world is at risk. It's all at risk. We don't know where this is going to go. We don't. As I was talking about with Olivia earlier in this program, Olivia Troy, former national security advisor to Mike Pence, says during the first term, Donald Trump was worried about this. General Keith Kellogg tried to tell Trump, don't do this, don't attack Iran. And now that Trump is in this jam and he attacked Iran and he's opened up Pandora's box. He's trying to lie each and every day to see if he can figure his way out of it, see if he can bullshit his way out of
- [52:57]
Stuart Stevens
it
- [52:59]
Jim Acosta
saying, we've obliterated this, taken out their leadership, we've destroyed their military. Then why isn't this over? Donald Trump, why isn't this over? Why isn't it over? Why did it begin in the first place? My thanks to Olivia Troy, my thanks to Stuart Stevens, my thanks to all of you for hanging in there. Had a couple of little technical gremlins here and there, but it's a Monday, folks. Mondays, it happens. And as you can tell, I am not in Washington. I'm on the road again, doing an event with my friend Jennifer Welch of the I've had a podcast doing an event with her later this evening. We'll see if we can bring you a little snippet of that for later on in the week. But in the meantime, really appreciate everybody tuning in and, and supporting the work of this show. As I say often supporting independent media. It matters. Just over the weekend, you saw Donald Trump put out this truth social post that put, you know, me and Terry Moran and Chuck Todd and Joy Reid and all these people. He's, he says he's taken out, he's taken us out. But we're still going strong here on this program and still going strong in independent media, all thanks to you. Really appreciate it. Still reporting this time from New York. New York, New York, the city so nice they named it twice. I'm Jim Acosta. I'll see you next time.