← The Jim Acosta Show
The Jim Acosta Show
One Year of Trump 2.0 with Ruth Ben-Ghiat, Molly Jong-Fast and Rick Wilson
01:02:34
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- [00:00]
A
Foreign. Welcome to the Jim Acosta show. And it's another day that ends in y and Donald Trump's assault on democracy, not just in America, but around the world. He was just asked how far he is willing to go to acquire Greenland and he said, quote, you'll find out. Trump has been posting images of a world in which Greenland and even Canada are part of the United States. The markets don't seem to like that very much. They've been down around 800 points all Tuesday afternoon. Let's talk about this with Ruth Ben Guillot, who wrote the book Strongmen on the history of dictators. Of course, it includes some on Trump. Ruth, to see you again. Thanks so much for coming on.
- [00:45]
B
It's always a pleasure.
- [00:47]
A
And here we are at year one of the Trump second term. I guess there were some folks who thought we wouldn't get here, but here we are. And I guess it's a little strange that we're talking about Greenland. His obsession with Greenland, it's gone into overdrive. He's. He posted this AI slop image of himself, as it's called these days, planning a U. S. Flag in Greenland with JD Vance and Marco Rubio with the sign that says there it is right there, Greenland, U. S. Territory established 2026. They, I mean, they. People might write this off. Oh, it's trolling. It's more of this kind of stuff that he does. He's rattling the cages of European leaders and so on. But you have said this should be taken very seriously.
- [01:28]
B
Yeah. Because there are three elements to it, all of which are part of his thing. One is plunder, and this isn't a new idea in 2019. If you have strongmen, anybody out there, look it up. He started talking about wanting Greenland, and Mike Pompeo, his secretary of state at the time, actually said that climate change was good things because as the glaciers melted, then the US could get all of the precious minerals and undiscovered oil deposits. So we have plunder. The second is that I think that Trump is in office in part to. To solve Putin's problems. And NATO is a huge problem for Putin. It always has been. And the deterrence it, it presents. And so creating a crisis in NATO and it's like a divide and conquer thing is, you know, who benefits from this aggression? It's Putin. It makes Europe look. Look weaker and puts them into crisis. And third, is that as absurd as it sounds? I was already thinking that this is about his infantile rage at not getting the Nobel Peace Prize. And then, sure, Enough, I think the Times in the Post reported that he had written to the head of Norway saying because he didn't get the prize, now he's not interested in peace and linking the two things. And so here we are in the territory of autocratic psychology. And when damaged people are in power, especially at the helm of a superpower, the. And they don't get that. What they want. The. They take it out on their people and then also on the world, apparently.
- [03:12]
A
Yeah. And last night, it was very late, I guess he was coming back from the college football championship game. He was asked by a reporter about this link between Greenland and the Nobel Peace Prize and the Norwegian Prime Minister that he wrote, and he denied that that had anything to do with it. And then today, at this press conference he was having in the White House briefing room to recap his first year back in office, he went on and on again about how much he thinks he deserves the Nobel Peace Prize. And so, you know, the. The psychology of this is just so. I mean, it's demented that he would think that. He would think he would deserve the Nobel Peace Prize, but that this has anything to do with war and peace and the. The future of NATO is really nuts.
- [03:57]
B
Unfortunately, when these rulers who have. Especially the ones who are unconstrained, so the more they feel constrained by Parliament, by which our Congress, by their parties, by anybody, the more reckless they become, and they give into these fantasies. So stuff happens. Like IDI Amin, whose personal doctor said he was both sane and insane, who suffered from megalomania. He had a dream that he should kick out all of the South Asians who lived in Uganda. And the next day, he issued an order that they had, like, I don't know, 60, 90 days to leave. And because South Asians were the backbone of commerce and business in Uganda, the whole economy tanked. And. But they have the power to kind of live out these fantasies. And unfortunately, it seems like that's what's going on now with Greenland and Trump's head.
- [04:56]
A
Yeah. And it looks like, you know, NATO leaders, European leaders, are trying to talk him off the ledge. Trump actually tweeted out a text he got from Mark Root, who is the UN Secretary, the NATO Secretary General, and he wrote. Mark Root apparently wrote to Trump, although, I guess. Have they confirmed this? We don't know, but we have to presume that this is the case that's been reported on. Root wrote Trump. Dear Donald, what you accomplished in Syria today is incredible. I will use my media engagements in Davos to highlight your work there. And Gaza and in Ukraine. I am committed to finding a way forward on Greenland. Can't wait to see you. Yours, Mark. I mean, this part where he says, I am committed to finding a way forward on Greenland, the NATO Secretary General saying something like that, it's really, it has this sort of bending the knee feel to it, the sort of acquiescent, you know, posture. You know, how is this standing up to Trump?
- [05:50]
B
It's not. And Root has been doing this for some time, which is a doubly damning toward him because he's, he's been doing this for many months. He in part on Ukraine. And what do we see is that far from having a calming, shall we call it, effect on Trump, he has become way more reckless. You know, look at what's happened, what he did with Venezuela. And so he's become more lawless and more interested in proving that he's above international law. The more that people like Root flatter him, because that's what has been happening. People are flattering him, thinking they'll get on his good side. And they've been doing it with tariffs and, but that doesn't work. That just makes them feel more grandiose. And so the only thing they respect is standing up to them. But hardly anybody does that.
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A
No, there's no question about it. And Trump was sort of at the end of this press conference today. He was previewing that, well, they're going to be these talks in Davos. He's on his way to the World Economic Forum in Davos, and he's making it sound as though everything's going to work out, it'll be just fine. And I guess there's some speculation that, well, you know, he was just sort of strong arming the Europeans into getting a better security deal for the US In Greenland. But we, as I've been saying on the show, we kind of already have Greenland. It's a part of NATO. We have a military base there. So this whole exercise, if that's what we end up with, was a completely dishonest exercise. And I'm willing to bet Ruth, and we could, we can mark this date down if we weren't right here, that they he could go to Davos, do a taco on Greenland. Trump always chickens out, do a taco on Greenland. He's not going to acquire. And then in three or four months, he'll start talking again about acquiring Greenland. I mean, some of this is just trying to psychoanalyze the ramblings of somebody who, who really should not be president. The United States, it seems to me.
- [07:42]
B
Yeah, absolutely. He's incompetent. And the fact that the, it's not even a silver lining, but it is showing, hopefully more and more Americans that he is, has zero interest in governance. He's interested in enriching himself and is getting more and more. I mean, somebody who says he's constrained only by his own mind and look at what his mind is producing. He truly is fixated about the Nobel Prize. And a lot of autocrats are, are fixated. They can have a fixation like Erdogan was fixated on this Muslim cleric, Gulen. And he. So he persecuted him and Gulen went into exile, and then Gulen died, and he keeps persecuting any follower of Gulen. These obsessions for, for kind of vengeance are, are boundless, actually. And we see that with domestic politics in the US that the doj, Department of Justice has become a kind of, you know, instrument for pursuing people Trump thinks have wronged him or after him, his enemies or stood up to him. So it's the personalization of governance which is one of the most nefarious things about autocracy, no question.
- [09:02]
A
And we may have some of this sound to play for the viewers, but he was at this press conference, he was railing against Jack Smith, the former special counsel. He was saying, he was claiming ended Joe Biden's weaponization of our government and.
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C
Removed his handpicked radical left Marxist prosecutors.
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D
From the Department of Justice like deranged Jack Six Smith. He's a sick son of a bitch.
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A
They gave me the worst of the.
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D
Worst, and here I am.
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A
How did that happen? How did that happen?
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B
Happen?
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A
He's a guy and Letitia James is sick and Alvin Bragg is sick. Sick people. Yeah. I mean, talk about sick people. This is one of those things where, you know, every accusation is a projection. But, Ruth, at the beginning of that, it was a little clipped at the beginning because I talked over it. But he was saying he ended the weaponization of government that was going on under Joe Biden. And of course, today, I just want to note to our viewers, I mean, this just happened this afternoon. We could talk about this, too. Federal prosecutors served six grand jury subpoenas to Minnesota officials as part of their investigation into whether they obstructed or impeded federal law enforcement during the immigration operation in Minneapolis St. Paul. This is according to the Associated Press. He has not. He has not ended government weaponization, Ruth. He has expanded it and enhanced it and enlarged it. And that's to say, I should say it wasn't even going on under Joe Biden. But he has doubled down on this Donald Trump.
- [10:37]
B
Yes, because again, governance is about amassing power and punishing your enemies. And he's trying to break Minnesota from the horrible things ICE is doing in the streets. They're living under a kind of military occupation in, in Minneapolis and then trying to break, you know, waltz and the, and the mayor and, and just go after them with every possible, with brutality, with lawsuits, with investigations so that they can show that they've broken this democratic state. And you know, that there have been these test cases, like Los Angeles was a test case in June for bringing the marines into, you know, a democratic run city, a very big important city, Los Angeles, and seeing if the marines could work together with the guard to repress protesters. And so we. It's horrible what's going on in Minnesota and in Minneapolis in particular. But it's a test case. I believe it's always a test case for something larger to expand, to scale it up.
- [11:49]
A
No question, Ruth. And the thing that concerns me is, and you and I haven't talked about the ICE operation, I don't think in all of our conversations or we have, it's been some time. But I mean, the thing that, that concerns me, and I think you're the perfect expert on this, is the way this ICE operation has sought to not just frighten and terrify people in the twin Cities, but humiliate them. I mean, there was video that came out over the weekend of this man from the hmong community in St. Paul. He was pulled out of the house. He was, he's a U. S. Citizen. He was pulled out of his house in his boxer shorts. It was negative 20 degrees with the wind chill in the twin Cities yesterday. And he was paraded in front of the cameras. And this is, this is the part of the dehumanization of immigrants and people who come from the immigrant experience in this country that I should, I think, should deeply trouble everybody. And it is one of the hallmarks, is it not, of an autocrat, of an authoritarian.
- [12:45]
B
Absolutely. They all do this and, and the public sphere, like cities, towns, streets become a theater for their authoritarian spectacles of humiliation. And I just tell people that, you know, long before the Nazis had the holocaust going, they would make, this was 1930s, they would make Jews, and they did the same thing in fascist Italy. Less known case, Jews had to start sweeping the streets. They had to be on their knees scrubbing, and people would form circles around them, including Hitler youth. So you have to humiliate people and so public space, which is our space, becomes a theater for their spectacles of humiliation. And this has gone on around the world. And one of the reasons they're so enraged is of course, the very moving and broad based resistance that ordinary people are waging peacefully. Very important that it's been peaceful in Minneapolis and Twin Cities against this brutality.
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A
Right. And that takes us to the case of Renee Good, which was obviously, I mean, you know, ICE killed this, an ICE officer killed this woman in cold blooded fashion, shooting her in the face, in the chest. And then they, the administration declared after it was over that there was no accountability, that, that this officer had absolute immunity. And that to me again is, I mean, it seems to me another example of what an authoritarian regime does. It can commit acts of violence and there are no consequences, there's no investigation. They've said Minnesota has no ability to investigate this. And I think the Washington Post just today reported that, that an FBI investigation was initiated and then halted.
- [14:38]
B
Yeah, yeah. So it, the, the way ICE is behaving and its culture, because every military body, or even, you know, different, different branches within the armed forces, they have a, they have a culture, an institutional social culture. And ICE is the repository for total lawlessness. And so that's why they're not training people, they're accepting almost every, anybody and they're luring in people. They don't seem to care if you have criminal record in some cases. And so the culture of lawlessness is very important to their operations. And so if you look at them comparatively reminds me a lot of the fascist militia that Mussolini founded because the, the king actually was commander in chief of the armed forces. And Mussolini needed his own people who were lawless. And so all these thugs who were black shirts and many of them had killed people, he put them in this militia and they were loyal to him and they fought in all the battles. I've actually looked at the United Nations War Crimes Commission documents of what they did when they occupied places, Albania, Yugoslavia. And it was these militia who did the worst war crimes because they knew that they would be, they had immunity from Mussolini. It's so, it's very similar. That's how they're acting.
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A
Yeah. And, and the way that Greg Bovino walks around in this Nazi era trench coat, it's almost as though they're inspired by what, what these fascist dictators did in the 20th century.
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B
He didn't just, he doesn't only have his fascist style coat, he actually did a very theatrical salute.
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A
Right.
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B
And so it's pretty direct. What What. And the way he marched. In fact, there's some video that was going around of him, you know, with a little formation, and it's exactly like the squadrost in Italy, and he has the swagger. And they feel arrogant, they feel full of themselves, and they're looking to be lawless, and they feel this kind of person feels fulfilled when they can demonstrate their power. And that's like autocracy in a nutshell. No accountability and a maniacal need to exercise power, whether it's at the executive level or in the streets.
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A
And so I guess it takes me to this question, Ruth. Are we basically at a stage now where the United States can be fairly described as in the midst of an authoritarian takeover? Are we. Are we. Are we seeing an authoritarian government as we speak? I know we have three branches of government, but we have two. Two of those branches not really acting as a check on the executive branch. I mean, I just. How do you see it? How does it add up to you?
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B
Yeah, we're in the middle of an authoritarian assault that, that's gone quite far in our democracy now. We're not. It's not comparable to what today in Turkey or Hungary. And these are places that have elections, but they. They rig them because you and I couldn't be doing this. We couldn't have our substacks, we couldn't be on television, none of that. And, and certainly the very robust legal resistance. It's over 320 cases, and many of them decided by Trump, appointed judges that have stopped or slowed down this authoritarian assault. So the courts have not been totally captured. On the other hand, he's only been here for a year. I mean, it takes people years to do what Trump has done. So we're in the middle of this assault. We're slowing it down. In some cases, it's not total. And so one of my maxims is that you have to use any. Every space and tool that you have, including elections and voting, including speaking out while you still have it, because that is, that's what, you know, I've learned this from dissidents. You use everything you still have. You never, you never give up on voting or elections because you think, well, it's not going to count.
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A
That's what they want you.
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B
That's what they. They want. They want you to just fold, to feel that resistance is futile. And that's why we have to recognize and honor those people who are coming out in the cold among ICE agents in the Twin Cities and still resisting. That's very, very important. And I think a lot of them know they're doing it for themselves, but they're setting an example for others. Because it's not going to only be the Twin Cities, and it hasn't been. There have been many other places. Look at Portland, many places. So this is heartening. And I think that the Trump administration is engaging in a kind of overreach. So I think this has a big potential to backfire.
- [19:43]
A
And just finally, I mean, is that why we're hearing Trump sort of opine on whether we need to have midterms in the fall? I mean, it's a, it's a thought that's banging around in his head. And as we've seen with Venezuela and Greenland and so many other things you have, that's a signal. That's a, that's a, that's a warning light, it seems to me.
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B
Yes. To say. And he's been saying this, you know, he, during his campaign in 2024, he told Evangelicals that he's going to, quote, fix it so good you'll never have to vote again. So whatever. Like, that's Ms. Dictator for a day, a year, four years. But, yes, the more he knows perfectly well that there's been a string of Democratic victories. And, you know, he can't stop all the resisters and all the candidates. And so that's why he's, you know, talking about the Insurrection act so nobody will protest. And he's talking about doing things to elections we don't need elections. All this is very predictable.
- [20:49]
A
It is predictable. And when he said a dictator for one day or on day one, that was certainly not the case. Not the case at all. Ruth Ben Ghiat, thank you so much as always. It's great to speak with you. Great to catch up. Let's keep doing this as these, as these days and weeks grind on, because I have a feeling we're going to have more to talk about between now and the midterms.
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B
Absolutely.
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A
Yeah.
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B
Pleasure to do it. We'll do it again.
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A
Sounds good. Thanks, Ruth. Really appreciate it. And, you know, Ruth is absolutely right. I think one big takeaway from that conversation is that that anecdote that she passed along, what she hears from dissidents, that you cannot give up on the power of the vote, that you can't give up on the power of your voice. That's what they want you to do. And somebody I haven't given up on is my friend Molly John Fast. When I think of who to bring on to talk about year one of Trump 2.0, Molly leaps to mind because how long have we been suffering through this together? I feel like it's been at least a decade.
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C
Maybe it's been a decade. We used to be young and now we wear cardigans. We're so old.
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A
I know, I know. I feel like this is my Mr. Rogers sweater, but it makes me feel more safe and secure to look like Mr. Rogers.
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D
So it's.
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A
It's okay.
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C
What I think is. So I actually think the last couple days have been a sea change, I think, because it's just hard for me to imagine. And I know, look, there are people. There's really good reporting in the Times about this project that Donald Trump canceled, a pipeline in Colorado that he canceled. And his people are like, well, he has a plan, right? There will always be people who think Donald Trump has a plan, but it is harder and harder for people who are not in the cult to defend this. And I think that is what the critical sort of moment is.
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A
Yeah. And I was just looking at this. I mean, and polls are polls, and we can't trust polls. Polls said that Kamala Harris might have won last time, but, I mean, anyway.
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C
Actually, she didn't have. She. I mean, we hoped that. We hoped that they were seeing that we weren't seeing, but the polls were really tight.
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A
Yeah, that's true. The Economist has a poll that has Trump at 37%. I mean, do we need to take some heart that he is just wildly unpopular and like, the invading Greenland thing was at 4%. And he was hinting today that, well, maybe he'll go to Davos and unveil this thing where he's going to taco on Greenland. I don't know. I'll believe it when I see it.
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C
But, yeah, I think he'll taco on Greenland. I think he'll taco on Greenland because of two things. The polls. Thank God, right? This is not. Trump has found his 8020 issue, but he's on the wrong side of it.
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A
Right.
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C
80% of Americans don't want to go to war with Greenland. They don't even give a fuck about anything happening in the 30,000 people. By the way, Greenland is like in the way that Venezuela will be in order to get all that oil. Wildly expensive Greenland is that similar thing. Right? There's shipping lines, there's this, there's that. But it's gonna be billions of dollars before any of that is realized.
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A
Yes.
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C
And again, the American people elected Trump because they thought. Because he told them he was gonna make bacon cheaper. Remember bacon Right, Yes. He was gonna make things cheaper.
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A
He was gonna make bacon in Greenland.
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C
Right? They have cheap bacon in Greenland. That's why he wants to invade it. But I mean, it is ultimately, it just. Look, his people will be with him forever. But you cannot, you know, you cannot govern with these numbers. And you have to have some level of popularity. And also, by the way, the markets are way down. And that is another thing that makes Donald Trump completely crazy.
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A
Look at this graphic we put together. It's a snazzy graphic, 870 points down. Although, you know, they, they went down like a gazillion points last year. And Wall street said, ah, well, it's a buying opportunity. I mean, Wall street just sort of shrugs off anything that he does, and they think he's always going to chicken out.
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C
They do until they don't, right?
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A
Yeah, that's right.
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C
They do until they don't. And with these numbers, like, we're clearly the hiring, you know, the economy, that sort of. Remember there was the COVID of the Economist where it said this was a Goldilocks economy. Right? That they had just whatever. For whatever reason, the Biden had gotten a sort of soft landing. And the dollar was the envy of the world. Okay. It's a year later. Guess what's not the envy of the world? The dollar.
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A
No, it is not. Yeah, that's right. They said we were the envy of the world at that point. And then Trump said, let's do some tariffs. And he continues to say that, you know, tariffs are his favorite word. Even as Americans are like, dude, we don't like the tariffs. The tariffs are hurting us.
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C
Even as more and more, more and more studies show that the people who pay a tariff, which is something that is put on, on top of what the price of something is. Right? So you, you know, I, I import shoes from Europe. They're tariffed at 10%, ergo, they're 10% more to buy from Europe, ergo, I pay maybe 8% more, maybe 10% more, maybe 12% more. I mean, there is no world in which a consumer does not pay the tariffs. And the irony of all of this is that Donald Trump and the Republican Party writ large, hate corporate taxes. Well, I got to tell you a secret tariffs are attacks on corporations.
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A
They are the consumer, right? The corporation pays the tax, and then they hand the bill to the consumer and they say, here you go, the President is nuts and you get to pay for it. I hope you enjoyed that very much. But I, so, so my concern is, is that, you know, getting back to the whole Nobel Peace Prize thing. And because of that, you know, he's going to invade Greenland and so on. Is that okay? He may be laying the groundwork where he's going to go to Davos and they'll figure a way out of this to get him off of the ledge, but we know how he is. And two or three months from now he'll go back to talking about acquiring Greenland and go back to talking about annexing Canada. The Greenland thing is not going to make the Canada thing go away. I mean, this is what they were looking at. This is another AI Slop. Is that a real thing or is that an AI slop thing? I have no idea. I don't know what the difference is anymore. But there's a picture of a map with Canada and Greenland and Venezuela part of the United States.
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C
The point is Trump truth to this out, whatever it is. Look, the reason why we just. This is a marathon, a three year marathon and not a sprint, is that in June the primaries will all be over. And so the cowardly Republicans who are waiting to speak up until they have a primary challenger, you know, because they're worried that Donald Trump is going to, is going to do to them what he did to Adam Kinzinger and Liz Cheney, those people will suddenly get very brave in June and so there'll be some. Right, so there'll be some more pushback. But you know, I think it's important to realize that Republicans could stop this at any time, right? That's right, they could at any time. You only need, I think, four Republicans in the Senate. You have a one seat majority in the House at any moment. If Murkowski and Collins and McConnell and any number of cowardly Republicans, anyone from any one of them, Rand Paul, four Republicans can stop this whole insanity and they choose not to.
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A
Right. And I think I saw Thom Tillis, who was retiring and is held up as this courageous Republican. He was on, I think it was on CNBC and was asked about the Greenland thing and, and he said, well, I just don't like the people who are advising Trump. It's not, you know, he, he can't even, it's like, come on, man, you know, wasn't it like the, the, the heir to the Estee Lauder fortune who.
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C
Planted this Ronald Lauder.
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A
Yeah, Greenland thing.
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C
Mega donor Ronald Lauder, who is the reason why Democrats have, why they lost those five House seats in New York is because Ronald Lauder poured billions of dollars into them. Look, the thing that you have to realize about all these Republicans is they use Mike Johnson and even like what Tom Tillis was saying there where he was like, I just don't like the people advising him. That's a way they have concocted in order to criticize Trump without criticizing Trump.
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B
Right.
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C
So you're allowed to criticize Mike Johnson. You could say, I don't like what Mike Johnson. But you're not allowed to criticize Donald Trump. You have to say like what Donald Trump is doing.
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A
Yeah. And I mean, to me, you know, is Don Bacon going back to Bacon? Don Bacon is the only person who will, who will say what needs to be said, which is that. That Trump is out of his mind.
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C
Yes.
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A
And Don Bacon's leaving.
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C
And Don Bacon is leaving and he's in a Democratic district. So the ch. You know, Don Bacon has to say, I mean, look, the. There, there are two things that are happening at once here. Right. Republicans are craven cowards and they don't want to get primaried and they don't want to get mean tweets and they don't want to have to hire more security. They saw what Mitt Romney did and they don't like it for themselves. That's part of it. And then part of it is this like insane normalcy bias where people feel like it can't. You know, when you're watching natural disaster in action, you think, oh, it can't possibly get this bad as they watch it happen.
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A
Well, and one person who is speaking up and you know, everybody has been marveling at his social media team and so on, apparently is in Davos is Gavin Newsom, the governor of California. And I'm sure you saw this where he was going off on the weak kneed European leaders who don't stand up to Trump. Let's play that.
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D
Just I can't take this complicity, people rolling over. I should have brought a bunch of knee pads for all the world leaders. I mean, handing out crowns and handing, I mean, this is pathetic Nobel prizes, they are being given away. I mean, it's just pathetic. And I hope people understand how pathetic they look. And the world stage, I mean, at least from an American perspective, it's embarrassing. So what should European doing?
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A
They.
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D
You should decide. The Europeans should decide for themselves what to do. But one thing they can't do is what they've been doing and they've been playing.
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A
Now I do have to say, Molly, that he has a point. I mean, if you look at this text that apparently Mark Root, the Secretary General of NATO sent to Trump, Trump tweeted it out Trump was kind enough to tweet this out overnight. He loves to humiliate people, even the head of NATO.
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C
And there was the Macron tweet that.
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A
There was the Macron tweet, too, but there was this, this Mark Root tweet where he basically says to Trump that, well, we'll work it out on Greenland. We'll work something out. And it's like, you know, I think Gavin Newsom has a good point here.
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C
Look, Gavin Newsom, I don't want to. Let's not be nice to any politician, Democrat or Republican. But that said, I think that Gavin Newsom did something really good by going to Davos, because Democrats need to sort of have their own shadow government. They need to be for something. They need to be out there fighting. That's what the base wants. It's not even what the base want. It's what normal people who are scared want, is they want a Democratic Party that pushes back. Is this very politically opportune for Gavin Newsom? Absolutely. But, you know, there's not. You don't see Chuck Schumer out there.
- [33:13]
A
No, you don't. Right. Well, he was out. He was apparently being interviewed by some student over the weekend giving the administration a pass for taking credit for the CHIPS Act. I mean, it was just like. But speaking of, Speaking of somebody who scared people want to hear from, I think Rick Wilson might be standing by. Do we have Rick Wilson standing by? If we have. We have to ask. We have to add Rick if he's standing. There he is.
- [33:38]
C
There he is.
- [33:39]
A
The hero we here, we got in Davos.
- [33:43]
C
Rick Wilson.
- [33:44]
D
Yes. Molly Junk fast.
- [33:46]
C
Don't you think two things can be true? My man Gavin is a craven opportunist. And also it's good that he's in Davos.
- [33:54]
D
My kind of craven opportunism right there.
- [33:57]
A
Yeah.
- [33:57]
D
Why? Because Trump was going to go over there and, and do the monkey throwing feces out of the zoo cage at everybody, and now he's looking over his shoulder at Newsom thinking, oh, damn it. Oh, somebody else. Who, who's got, who's got the gift of, of, of knowing where the spotlight's going to be in two minutes. And, and, and look, none of the things that Trump did last night of sharing all these messages from world leaders that in absolutely off the walls, bonker palooza presser today, none of that makes people wake up and go, wow, I feel so much better about the world. This is, this is a guy who is not well. He's talking about insane asylums and he's acting like somebody who belongs in one of them. Yes, he was.
- [34:42]
A
He was showing all these pictures of the, the rapists that have been caught by ice that he claims have been caught by ice, and yet he won't release the Epstein files, which also has a lot of rapists. It mentions a lot of rapists in the fc.
- [34:55]
C
Yeah, but, you know, some of those guys are his friends and maybe.
- [34:58]
A
Well, that's true.
- [34:59]
C
And who else? But I do think.
- [35:02]
D
No, he says it over and over again. I'm not many people who are my friends would be hurt.
- [35:06]
C
Yeah.
- [35:06]
D
Oh, so your friends are in the files that you know nothing about.
- [35:11]
C
It's what he told Marjorie.
- [35:12]
D
Notable sex trafficker and predator and pedophile. But your friends are in there, so you're just worried about them out of the goodness of your heart. Okay.
- [35:21]
A
Yeah.
- [35:22]
C
I have a question for both of you. Since this is now my show, don't you think that this weekend it was like, so much worse that if you're a normal person having to defend this, you're all of a sudden you're like, discuss.
- [35:39]
A
Jim. Well, I think that, you know, Scott Besson trying to defend the idea of invading Greenland, you know, when it's at 4%, you know, you know, in the polls, when something's at 4%, you know, you know, you're, you're in deep. I, I, you know, I, I don't know what Rick thinks, but to me, I think Gavin Newsom being Adamas, just go back to that for a second. He's sort, it's sort of reminding me of Andrew Cuomo during COVID It was sort of like, we need a, we need a normal president, you know, and he turned out not to be a good person at all. But at that moment, it was what.
- [36:12]
C
The country needed and you can serve the cause and not be, you know, none of these people have to be good people if they just get us out of this moment.
- [36:21]
A
That's true.
- [36:22]
D
You know, Molly, I think, I think one of the things that, that, that we, we are, we're watching is the normies have gotten, this is weirdly, strangely been one of the Epstein split off some of the weirdos.
- [36:40]
A
Yeah.
- [36:40]
D
But this has really, really shaken folks in the, in the US Senate in particular, which is where I still have my remaining, you know, contacts with, with electeds in D.C. i used to know 30 House members. Now I know none. They're all insane. This has really rattled them. I was told by a member that who said to me, you can't believe how hard Lindsay's working to get him off this. I'm like, get the out of here. Lindsey Graham is up his ass. And Mr. President, you would look great in a white fur coat dominating Greenland. But, but, you know, people know better. Marco knows better, Vance knows better. All of this, folks, and it's really important to remember this. The reason they're doing this is not to take Greenland, it's to break NATO.
- [37:28]
C
Right?
- [37:29]
A
Yes.
- [37:29]
B
Right.
- [37:30]
D
This is, the objective is to NATO.
- [37:32]
C
Right. And it's much. And you know, he can't leave NATO because of the Marco Rubio Correct thing. So explain that, because I think that's worth. He, he is stuck in Naito because of something Marco Rubio did. And so now he's figured out that if he attacks a NATO country, he can get out of NATO.
- [37:51]
D
Correct.
- [37:52]
A
He can push the Europeans to blow up.
- [37:54]
D
He can make the Europeans fire us rather than quitting. Yeah, because in the first administration where Marco still was acting some what like a sane person was not kissing Trump's ass, he came out with a piece of legislation, I think it was a rider in one of the Defense NDA, National Defense Authorization Acts that said you can't leave NATO without the permission of two thirds of Congress in both houses. And that ain't gonna happen.
- [38:19]
A
That's not gonna happen.
- [38:20]
D
Even, even in today's, you know, inert Congress, that's not going to happen. So he stuck.
- [38:27]
A
Yeah, but Rick, I have to show this image that we were just showing a few moments ago. Trump planting the flag in Greenland with Marco Rubio and J.D. vance there. I mean, this is also kind of Trump planning the MAGA flag in the Republican Party's chest.
- [38:43]
D
I think you did that a long time ago.
- [38:45]
A
I know, but, but to me, you know, yes, he did that a long time. There's no question about it. But I just, I look at this and I think to myself, even last year when I was saying to everybody, this is going to be bonkers. This is going to be batshit crazy. This is going to be unhinged. Oh, yeah, I didn't expect this. This is absolute furniture eating lunacy. Yeah. I'm looking at, in this, in this image right here.
- [39:10]
D
Look, look, I, I want to say that as, as someone who got yelled at in 2021 when I said Trump would run again, because I was like, no way, that'll never happen. And then I got yelled at in 2024 by saying, if you elect him, you have no idea how bad it will be. I got yelled at even by Democrats who are like, don't don't fear monger. I'm like, I'm not fear monger. I just know who and what he is and what he will do, and here's what he's doing. But yeah, look, that, that when we left Vietnam, when we evacuated Vietnam, about 30% of Americans still supported our participation in the war in Vietnam. Right now, the average of the polls that have come out so far, less than 10% of Americans support taking Greenland, much less invading Greenland. How does he think it's going to go after the first day? I mean, I just find this. So it's an obscenity, but. But it is. It is the most destructive behavior of a president and the weakness of his own party to push back against it just kills me. Breaks my heart.
- [40:19]
C
Well, I also just wonder what, you know, if you need more cold, unbuildable land like Canada's right there, baby.
- [40:28]
D
Oh, don't think. Don't think that. Well, the thing. Bannon is drum beating and these other guys are drum beating us. Alberta has to become a US State, right? Western Canada, more conservative, blah, blah, blah.
- [40:41]
A
If you want to see penguins and fucking polar bears, go to a goddamn zoo. I mean, that, that's. I mean, that's the other problem I have. Don't we have undeveloped cold land in Alaska? I mean, there is that. Where there's plenty of Alaska. Is.
- [40:53]
D
Alaska is. Is. Is very, very, very vacant.
- [40:58]
A
Half of the upper Midwest. And Alaska is also melting. I mean, if we just want to go down this rabbit hole, you know.
- [41:03]
C
But the other thing I think is Greenland is expensive. Like, you're gonna have to pay those people. Like, they actually have a pretty good stand. Why they stick around with Denmark, right? It's not. It's 30,000 people, but they each get, you know, thousands of dollars.
- [41:19]
D
No, it's like 57,000 people, which is, you know, the size of, you know, a couple of blocks in New York. But, but yeah, they have a decent. They have a decent. They come from a civilized country, right?
- [41:30]
A
Yeah.
- [41:31]
C
They don't pay. You can't go bankrupt if you get cancer.
- [41:34]
A
The other thing I want to say, and Rick, you and I have not had this conversation about this, is that we already have Greenland. That of course, in a sense, we already have it. It's part of NATO. We have a military base there. There's probably an American flag flying in Greenland right now.
- [41:47]
D
I know.
- [41:47]
A
It's.
- [41:47]
D
It's at a place called Air Base.
- [41:50]
A
It's.
- [41:50]
D
It's perfect. Air Base. It's in the northern part of Greenland. It used to Be called Tula. We used to have 17 u. S. Military facilities in Greenland, but we pulled them out over the years because we didn't need them. You know why? Nobody's going to take Greenland by force. And if they did, if they did, Ukraine. That's the thing. It's like, it's like suddenly these guys are all tough on Russia. Suddenly these guys are afraid. I mean, you want to, you want to, you want to ensure that, that Russia can't invade Greenland, help Ukraine beat them. It's done. Vladimir Putin falls out a window. The day after that, war is lost.
- [42:26]
C
But, but let me just say one of the things. When you look at the Today, you had Trump doing this presser, and he said, you know, Norway says they're not really responsible for the Nobel, but we all know the truth. So obviously, this is also about Donald Trump's inability to snag a nobel peace prize, which is, quite frankly, the stupidest thing ever.
- [42:55]
D
It is. It is so pathetic. And, you know, I was shocked. Somebody today actually asked the question, like, how did you, how do you getting this, this somebody else's Nobel peace prize help the American people? I was like, what?
- [43:07]
A
Yeah, I mean, and it's also, it's ripe for ridicule. I mean, I just think that, do they not see the participation trophy memes that have been everywhere for the last 72 hours that we've all sent to each other?
- [43:23]
D
When I was a Republican, that was one of those things that, that was like, you know, the rough and ready up by your bootstraps. We don't need a participation trophy. We're real men, tough guys. And now it's like, I'm gonna cry and invade Greenland since the Norwegians didn't give me what I wanted. Like a, Like, I'm a baby.
- [43:41]
A
Yeah.
- [43:41]
C
Very sensitive guy, Donald Trump, except when it comes to. It was when he said your feelings, he meant his feelings and not your feelings.
- [43:50]
A
And they keep getting over and over again. That's the sad thing.
- [43:55]
C
But it does get to the question of, like, what would this. What would it. What would Trump have to do for these Republicans to say enough?
- [44:05]
D
Yeah, Molly, this is the question that has been asked endlessly for the last decade. And I, I was one of those guys that was asking it from the beginning, like, okay, guys, isn't calling John McCain saying he wasn't a hero enough? Isn't that enough? Isn't talking about Mexican rapists enough? Isn't the fact that Donald Trump is a thrice married, persistent adulterer, scumbag, multiple bankrupt Casino owning grifter enough and it's not ever enough. There are two reasons why they stay with him. Fear and fear. They don't want to be primaried by idiot MAGA goons that come out of the woodwork and they don't want to be killed. January 6th actually was a successful mission for Trump because these Republicans like Thom Tillis, even though he's brave on the way out the door, is still looking over his shoulder that some MAGA creep doesn't blow his brains out. They're afraid of being killed. I've had these conversations with these guys personally. They're like, well, I'm not really with him, but if I say anything wrong, you know, you never know what will happen to me. I might not make it. I've got a wife and kids, blah, blah, blah.
- [45:10]
A
But here, I guess my question is, is, you know, we've reached a point now where I think it's fair to ask, is he going to make it to 2028? Is he going to make it all four years? And I'm not, I'm not convinced of this. Rick.
- [45:23]
D
Look, I thought today, I mean, that, that presser today, that was low energy. Jeb, right there, please clap.
- [45:29]
B
Right?
- [45:29]
A
It really was.
- [45:30]
D
Please clap.
- [45:32]
A
Yeah. Biden, Sleepy Joe, even though he falls asleep all the time, I mean. Yeah.
- [45:36]
B
Oh, well.
- [45:37]
D
And look, this was, this was one of those things. And Molly and I were talking about this on, on Sunday or Monday, whatever the show, whenever the show came out, you know, he will just, he, his projection is just epic all across the board.
- [45:51]
A
Across the board? Yeah, across the board. And you know, to me, I asked, where are the wins? Where are your wins? Affordability, you know, is just out the window.
- [46:04]
C
What, what even wins? Where are the things that are not crisis you created?
- [46:09]
A
Right. I guess here's one win we could show, we could show. I mean, this is one. We show the participation. There's one of the wins that he's got right there. There's storm.
- [46:19]
C
God, he looks young in that, in that fake.
- [46:23]
A
This is the best I could find on the fly as we were talking here.
- [46:27]
C
Yeah, but I mean, if you think about it like the. I'm sorry, the tariff stuff, that is what. That's his making.
- [46:37]
A
And he was saying today if they rule against him on the tariffs, what the country is going to go down the tubes. We're going to lose all of this money because we have to pay all of this money back.
- [46:45]
C
Where is the money? Where is the.
- [46:48]
D
There is no tariff money. He's lying about it. It's come out of the pockets of American taxpayers.
- [46:54]
C
Yeah, yeah, but where has it gone?
- [46:57]
A
Have the, the taxes have gone into the Treasury?
- [46:59]
D
I believe in the treasury, but. Yeah, but the, no, the, the, I mean, this is just the problem is by taking that money, you're cutting it off the GDP top line of the country.
- [47:10]
A
Right.
- [47:10]
D
And it's a tax on Americans. And you know, I think with the Venezuela oil money, he was like, he figured out he could do this, like parking it in a foreign owned private bank account in Qatar rather than giving it to the Treasury. If he'd thought about that in the beginning, he would be sitting on however many trillion dollars of American tax revenue he's brought in privately.
- [47:34]
A
Yeah, well, compound interest, you know, maybe that's what he's, he's hoping for as our grandparents.
- [47:40]
D
It is over time, baby.
- [47:43]
A
Yeah.
- [47:43]
C
The fact that he's so invested in enrichment and enriching himself makes me feel like there is a chance. He knows he can't do this forever.
- [47:54]
A
Right. He was talking about the Norwegians and how they have a stronghold in the, in the North Sea. I think he was saying or something like that during the press conference. One of the other weird sort of tangents that he went on the brain is, it's the problem, Molly, is that I'm not sure the brain is 100% there. It's sort of like Young Frankenstein when, when he got, when Igor or Igor goes and gets the abnormal brain and the jar.
- [48:17]
D
I got the brain from Abby. Abby, Igor, Abby Normal.
- [48:23]
A
I think we're deal dealing with Abby normal here.
- [48:26]
C
We, you know, we spent so much time, there was so much discourse about being by, about Biden being old. Donald Trump is six months older than Biden was.
- [48:38]
A
Yes.
- [48:39]
D
And as I, Donald Trump is displaying, I think a lot of what, what hit Biden hard was he was shuffling, he was, he was, he was slower, he looked more frail. But Trump's mental decline is much more marked, I think, than Joe Biden's ever was while he was in the same exact position. And, and I hear far fewer people making this the singular top story of the news, that presidential cognitive fitness is the highest possible story line that we must follow at all times.
- [49:11]
A
Well, and that's why I bring this up all the time and I'll bring it up with you guys and I won't hold you forever. We won't play podcast hostage. But when I remember when Fox would have the segments, who's really the president? Who's pulling the strings at the White House? Joe Biden, who's Pulling the string. Where are those segments now? I. We should have these segments. It's Stephen Miller pulling the strings.
- [49:31]
D
Quite obvious.
- [49:32]
C
Stephen Miller is terrorizing Americans. Marco is terrorizing everyone else.
- [49:38]
D
Pete Hexeth is. Pete Hexith is the drunken enforcer.
- [49:42]
C
But isn't Pete. He's theorizing the bartender isn't Pete Hegseth sort of siloed and. And in his own little. Like, aren't they giving him plastic toys to play with?
- [49:51]
D
Pretty much. It's, you know, they're giving him the mushroom treatment. Keep him in the dark, feed him shit, make him do things.
- [49:56]
A
Things.
- [49:56]
C
You know, like, I feel like Marco is really in charge of Marco and Marco and Miller.
- [50:04]
D
Marco and Miller have a sort of axis they've developed about this ambitious new vision for the Western Hemisphere. Vance is also in that as well, to some degree. But, you know, look, somebody points out he sees himself as a mob boss. That's exactly what he. What he views this as. He's. He's exactly like a mob boss today. He was like Vinnie the Chin. I'm gonna date myself here by making that reference. Who was a famous mobster who pretended to be crazy, but actually turned out to be crazy. But, yeah, he. This is. This is just pure intimidation.
- [50:40]
A
Don Corleone, cue the music. Well, Molly, Rick, thank you so much. Hopefully, in a year from now, we'll still be allowed to have podcasts.
- [50:48]
D
Well, I would love that.
- [50:50]
A
Yes. And at year two, we can do this again.
- [50:52]
B
Yay.
- [50:53]
C
You know, we only have to make it to the midterms.
- [50:58]
A
That's right.
- [50:59]
C
Because if. And I think that the midterms will happen, and I think we have to just assume that we will all push and make sure that they happen in a free and fair way. But, you know, if the. If the House gets one back and there's a real world in which the Senate also gets won back by Democrats, increasingly, Donald Trump's gonna have a lot of trouble.
- [51:22]
D
He is. And. And. And I know the Republicans. I spoke to some Republican pollsters this weekend who are now like. Like, even. Even safe bet. Seats that are open. They're worried about. They're looking over their shoulders going, wait a minute, is.
- [51:38]
C
Isn't the generic, like, 48, 40 or something?
- [51:42]
D
Yeah, the generic is as good as it's been since 2018. I think it was exceptional. It might be a little better now.
- [51:49]
C
I thought it was a few points better, even. Yeah.
- [51:51]
D
In fact, on Political Friday, we're doing a show on this, on behind the Numbers. Our polling show that we.
- [51:56]
A
Oh, Good. And didn't the Cook Political report just move 18 races in the direction of the Democrats?
- [52:01]
D
That is correct. That is correct. Including some of these, what were safe Republican seats. Now moving to either lean or toss up, which is another.
- [52:10]
C
I, one more thing about Gavin, and this is not in any way endorsing his anything, but he is holding that, that race to fill that empty seat in California until the last possible day.
- [52:26]
D
Make it hurt. They deserve it.
- [52:29]
C
And that's what Democrats should be doing with everything. They should go to Davos.
- [52:33]
D
The Virginia Democrats, God bless them, they're playing hardball on redistricting.
- [52:37]
C
That's right. Did they get nine seats?
- [52:41]
A
Yeah.
- [52:41]
C
Yeah.
- [52:43]
A
The redistricting thing is not working for Donald Trump. He thought that this was a great idea. It's working out badly for him.
- [52:49]
D
I, I jumped up and down and tore my remaining five hairs out with Democrats when the, when the Texas thing came out. They're like, we can't take, we can't take that low road and stoop to their level. I'm like, the. You can't. You better.
- [53:01]
A
Exactly. All right, guys, that is the only road. It is the road we must take. Guys, great to see, as always. Thank you so much, Molly. You're the best. Thank you so much. Really appreciate it. Bye. Bye. Bye. And I mean, I suppose, you know, and if Donald Trump has a bad year and loses control of the Congress, you know, maybe at that point he could start going for the Nobel Peace Prize. That's sort of what lame duck presidents do in the back half of the second term. They do lame duck, Nobel Peace Prize type stuff. They travel. Remember when George W. Bush went to Africa and he was doing that dance? You know, that's the kind of stuff that Trump could potentially do and maybe win a participation trophy from Stormy Daniels. I don't know if we could show that again. But there's that, you know, I, and that's, you know, that this is one of the questions that I'll just leave everybody with as we end this, this program on the anniversary of Trump coming back into office. And I should not call it an anniversary because that's supposed to be a nice thing. It's not. It's not a nice thing in this case. But I'm just thinking, just to show that one more time, the, the stormy. I know it's crass and I know it's, it's a bit much on my part, the Stormy Daniels thing, but at what point do the guys in the manosphere, at what point do they look at this and see Somebody who is pathetic, somebody who ain't all there anymore, somebody who's lost a step. And I'm just, I got about. Ever since this Nobel thing came up several days ago, I've gotten, I think, at least 300 of these types of memes, and I'm not going to go through all of them. This one is my favorite, so that's why I'm highlighting it here at the end of the show. But at what point do the people in MAGA have some sense of, I don't know, ownership over this? Take some responsibility for this. See this for what it is, this pathetic display that it is. He's so upset and hurt over not winning the Nobel Peace Prize, which we all know he has no business ever receiving, that he is now risking the future of the NATO alliance. Somebody make some sense out of that for me. Make that make sense for me. As the kids say, it doesn't make sense. And the reason why it doesn't make sense is because it's, it's coming from the mouth of Donald Trump. And we've reached a point in this long journey of ours, ladies and gentlemen, where we just have to call these things out. And the President of the United States is, is a pathetic boob. He is a pathetic boob. He's, he's, he's posting memes of Canada and Greenland and Venezuela with American flags draped over them as if they're now part of the United States. And I, I guess this is all AI. He's assembled in front of these European leaders, rubbing their noses in it and so on. He, he is acting like a teenager who has a, who has a goddamn screen addiction and needs help. And at some point, doesn't somebody have to take the wheel? John Thune, Mike Johnson. I, I guess they're just not going to do it. They're not going to do it. And, and that is why, to me, 2026 is the year that America takes the wheel back. It's the year that America takes the wheel back. You know, Donald Trump likes to talk about the 250th anniversary of this country, which we're all celebrating this year in the year 2026 as something that has something, it has something to do with him, that it speaks highly of his, of his presidency, that it's somehow tribute to his leadership in his, in his presence in all of our lives. I wrote a substack about this today. You can check it out. I, I called it a dictator at year one because we are, that's where we are right now. We're at a wannabe dictatorship at year one. He said I, I will only be a dictator on day one. And that was a lie. As I, as I warned and as I said at my old place. It's, it's never about day one. There's always a, with dictators, there's always a day two and a day three and so on. And that's where we are right now. A wannabe dictator who is trying to turn the United States into, into this sort of authoritarian, high tech, authoritarian experiment for the 21st century. And we, the American people just have to say we're not going to put up with that. We're just not going to have that. And, and as I write and, and I'll point it out, here he is his own worst enemy. At at no point is he dealing with the affordability crisis in this country. At no point does he ever intend to fully release the Epstein files. Things that vast majorities of the American people would like to see taken care of in this country. He's not going to do those things. He's going to operate like a wannabe autocrat, authoritarian and dictator from here on out. And that is why it seems to me the 250th anniversary of this country and we should talk about this as we mark one year of Trump 2.0. It is going to be a bit about Donald Trump isn't is a, it is going to be about taking this country back from a mad king, taking this country back from a wannabe dictator who is out of control and tweets AI slop of him planting a flag in Greenland. Somebody, somebody needs to grab the, the wheel from grandpa. Somebody needs to grab the keys. And to me, this, this is going to be the year when America retakes the wheel. I, I really think that's what's going to happen. My thanks to the wonderful Ruth Ben Guillot, the wonderful Molly John Fast, the, the wonderful Rick Wilson. Really great to catch up with all of them. Thought they were perfect slate of guests as we look at this first year of Donald Trump being back in office. The other thing I have to say before I go, folks, and I'm going to do this over the next several days is to thank all of you for continuing to support the show, continuing to support independent media. Just today there were more shitty headlines about cbs. There are more shitty headlines about what's taking place in corporate media. People who are being paid to lie in corporate media. That is not what we are about on this program. We are, we are about bringing you the truth in an aggressive, unvarnished and unflinching way, because that's what that's where we are as a country. The stakes absolutely call for, for that kind of an approach, and that's what we're going to continue to do. But it's all because of you and the support that you give this program and the support that you give to independent media. Look at the, the folks in independent media and the kind of jobs that they're doing, they're all doing right now. Now, the wonderful colleagues that I have. I'm about to go to a program tonight with Mehdi Hassan over at the Howard theard in Washington, D.C. you can still get over there if you have if you're close by and you have time to get over there. I'll be with Mehdi. I'll be with Joy Reid and some of the other great folks, Miles Taylor, some of the great folks who are in independent media right now. This is flourishing. This is taking off. This is what's holding Trump accountable. And it continues to exist and it continues to thrive and it continues to flourish because of you, because of the support that you give, whether it's on substack or on YouTube, when you subscribe, when you like, when you share all of those things, when you harness that power and take it and use it yourself, by, by supporting it and sharing it with others and showing that you like it and so on, you are helping build something up that is absolutely critical to the future of this country. You are participating. You are not just on the sofa. You are not just standing by. You're part of this. And I and I want to thank you for that as well. Really appreciate it. All right. Until next time. Still reporting from Washington, I'm Jim Acosta. I'll see you next time. Sam.