"Reclaiming Democracy: Jan. 6th, 5 Yrs Later" w/ Adam Kinzinger, Heather Cox Richardson, Michael Fanone, Harry Dunn, Olivia Troye, Miles Taylor, Glenn Kirschner, Aquilino Gonell and Daniel Hodges

Summary

Podcast Summary:

The Jim Acosta Show – "Reclaiming Democracy: Jan. 6th, 5 Years Later"
Air Date: January 7, 2026
Host: Jim Acosta
Guests: Adam Kinzinger, Heather Cox Richardson, Michael Fanone, Harry Dunn, Olivia Troye, Miles Taylor, Glenn Kirschner, Aquilino Gonell, Daniel Hodges
Location: National Press Club, Washington, D.C.

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Episode Overview

Marking the 5-year anniversary of January 6th, this special episode of The Jim Acosta Show brings together frontline Capitol defenders, key investigators, and democracy advocates to reflect on the attack, assess America's current challenges, and chart a path forward. With frank discussion and emotional testimony, the guests sound the alarm about ongoing threats, the erosion of accountability, and the urgent need to “reclaim democracy.” Notable themes include the struggle against lies and revisionism, the reality of trauma and betrayal, the call for organized resistance, and strategies to restore American legal and democratic norms.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Firsthand Accounts from Jan. 6 Defenders

• Testimonies of Violence and Survival

  • Officers Michael Fanone, Harry Dunn, Aquilino Gonell, and Daniel Hodges recount brutal violence, near-death experiences, lasting injuries, and psychological scars from the insurrection.
    • Michael Fanone: “They ripped off my badge…began to beat me… heard chanting from some in the crowd, ‘get his gun and kill him with his own gun.’” (14:21)
    • Gonell: “...no matter how many pardons or whitewashing the White House does… it will never take the scars out of my body.” (30:32)
    • Hodges notes the surreal progression: “January 6th feels kind of quaint now… we're in the beginning stages of ethnic cleansing at home… But it’s still relevant. I think it was the last point Trump thought he might face some form of accountability.” (34:54)

• Camaraderie & Isolation

  • Officers describe trauma-bonding, finding meaning in their fight, and feeling isolated or abandoned by their institutions and, at times, the public.
    • Dunn: “It’s encouraging, it’s infectious… But I found purpose, right. When I first spoke, it was about accountability… Now, the mission is push back against these lies. Do not let them rewrite what happened that day.” (26:35–29:33)

2. The Battle Over Accountability and Truth

• White House, Supreme Court, and Pardons

  • Jim Acosta and guests excoriate the continuing revisionism, Trump’s pardons of January 6th rioters, and what they see as the Supreme Court’s abdication (“gave Trump a blank check”).
    • Adam Kinzinger: “I know in four or five years nobody will admit they ever supported this guy and I really believe that.” (18:57)
    • Fanone: "The Department of Justice developed proof beyond a reasonable doubt that Donald Trump orchestrated, funded, and then incited an insurrection against our government… for the kids at home, that’s treason." (22:47)
    • Gonell: "He turned his back. It’s a betrayal on the law enforcement community… and to democracy.” (32:01)

• Historical Parallels

  • Fanone and historian Heather Cox Richardson draw lines from January 6th to the failures of Reconstruction and the Civil War.
    • Fanone: “I remember learning… how we compromised with the Confederates and we allowed them to hold office once again. And I think we’re paying for those sins today...” (22:47)
    • HCR: “The Confederate battle flag flew in the United States Capitol... Under Donald Trump, the Confederates stormed the White House. That I’ve never been able to get over.” (62:20)
    • HCR: “...it’s just a continuation of the Civil War. We’re going to have to make sure... that idea of minority rule is completely crushed in the United States of America.” (64:27)

3. Fighting for Democracy in an Authoritarian Era

• Organizing & Engagement vs. Fatigue

  • The fight is not just legal but cultural and psychological.
    • Olivia Troye: “Authoritarianism thrives on fatigue. That is why... you keep showing up, no matter how tired you are… they want you to give up.” (88:34–90:20)
    • Adam Kinzinger: “Our battle for the next year and three years is to make sure that more of us stay engaged than them. That’s what we have to do.” (37:59)
    • Miles Taylor: “There was a literal day where my wife said the word defiance… it was like magic… We should be fighting back. And we launched this thing, defiance.org…” (119:05)

• Need for Ruthless Accountability in Politics

  • Fanone stresses the importance of going beyond symbolic wins.
    • “I’m fighting against Republican Party, which has become the party of insurrection. I’m fighting against the Democratic Party because they’re a bunch of pussies. It’s not enough for me… I want somebody who is going to punish those that ransacked our capital and ransacked our Constitution.” (39:20)
    • Kirschner: “With accountability, all things are possible. Without accountability, you get Donald fucking Trump.” (86:23)

4. Legislative and Practical Solutions

• Legislation & De-Trumpification

  • Discussion of possible legal reforms to bar insurrectionists from holding office, similar to de-Nazification after WWII or “de-Baathification” post-Saddam Iraq.
    • Gonell: “...we need to do that here once Donald Trump leaves and purge those people who were placed for political reason and restore the career people into the service…” (56:29)
    • Mention of Senator Padilla’s bill—no January 6th rioters to receive settlements, compensation, restitution, or federal jobs. (57:14)

• Massive Mobilization in Elections

  • Adam Kinzinger: “We’re going to just have to kick their ass. It’s going to have to be a blue wave… 70 or 80 seats and hopefully putting the Senate in play.” (42:04)

5. The Role of Independent Media

• Heather Cox Richardson and Jim Acosta emphasize the demise of corporate media’s independence (“There’s a corporation that has a media wing”) and the hope found in reader-supported media for preserving truth, accountability, and civic engagement.
  • HCR: “When I write, I’m trying to empower Americans… to make good decisions about their lives… There’s a reason that independent media is taking off… because you can’t trust CBS if they’re going to pull 60 Minutes because they don’t like the way it represented the Trump administration.” (76:33)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

“They ripped off my badge…they began to beat me… heard chanting from some in the crowd: ‘get his gun and kill him with his own gun.’”
– Michael Fanone (14:21)

“No matter how many pardons or whitewashing... it will never take the scars out of my body.”
– Aquilino Gonell (30:32)

“...this is just a continuation of the fight that began that day.”
– Michael Fanone (22:47)

“January 6th feels kind of quaint now... but it was the last point where Trump thought he might face some form of accountability for all the horrors that he's brought... He's never faced any accountability...”
– Daniel Hodges (34:54)

“With accountability, all things are possible. Without accountability, you get Donald fucking Trump.”
– Glenn Kirschner (86:23)

“Don't give in to the lies. Don't give into fear. Hold on to the truth and hope.”
– Jim Acosta (end, 121:51)

“I say you do, because I think in being in government for so long... you kind of assume that courage belongs to someone else. You keep waiting for someone else to take a stand... you can't outsource courage. You have to hold it from within.”
– Olivia Troye (110:57–113:40)

“Authoritarianism thrives on fatigue.”
– Olivia Troye (90:20)

“There's more of us than there are of them, and we have to remind ourselves of that.”
– Tara Setmayer (99:14)

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• 08:05 – 15:12 | Officers recount January 6th, scenes of violence, confusion, and survival
• 15:12 – 18:57 | Jim Acosta's opening, welcoming guests, setting the stakes for democracy
• 18:57 – 22:07 | Adam Kinzinger on political lies and the legacy of the Jan. 6 Committee
• 22:47 – 29:33 | Michael Fanone & Harry Dunn on trauma, purpose, accountability, and truth
• 30:32 – 34:54 | Aquilino Gonell and Daniel Hodges on injuries, betrayal, and political realities
• 36:00 – 39:20 | Kinzinger, Fanone: Electoral accountability, hope, and sustained engagement
• 46:47 – 53:03 | Gonell & Hodges: Personal recovery, internet sleuthing, ongoing threats
• 60:57 – 67:42 | Heather Cox Richardson: The meaning of Jan. 6th, historical parallels, American will
• 68:24 – 79:32 | HCR & Acosta: Reclaiming democracy, levers of power, importance of media
• 81:00 – 84:58 | Robert De Niro's statement (read by Acosta): On the insurrection, pardons, truth
• 85:02 – 121:51 | Panel: Kirschner, Troye, Taylor, Setmayer on legal strategies, resistance, hope, generational engagement, emotional fuel for the fight

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Tone & Atmosphere

The conversation is candid, raw, occasionally profane, and deeply emotional, matching the gravity of the anniversary. Speakers are adamant about refusing to sugarcoat the threats, and the atmosphere oscillates between somber recollection, comic relief, righteous anger, and steely resolve. The tone remains accessible—even when discussing legal or policy minutiae—and repeatedly circles back to the resilience and shared responsibility of “We the People.”

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For Listeners Who Missed the Episode

This episode is a living oral history from those who stood on the literal and metaphorical front lines of the assault on American democracy. It’s an unvarnished call for honesty, memory, and continued defiance in the face of lies, intimidation, and democratic erosion. The guests express urgency, but also hope, rooted in solidarity and the resolve of both prominent and ordinary Americans to continue the “long arc toward justice.” For those seeking to understand not just what happened, but why it still matters—and what must come next—this episode is urgent listening.

Transcript

[Jim Acosta]

Sam, Ramp. It.

[Heather Cox Richardson]

All right.

[Adam Kinzinger]

Hi, friends.

[Harry Dunn]

I reported for duty at the Capitol as usual early on the morning of January 6th.

[Jim Acosta]

We started that day at 7:30am and our assignment at the time was to maintain high visibility along Constitution Avenue.

[Michael Fanone]

When my partner Jimmy Albright and I arrived at the Capitol around three that afternoon, it was like un Excuse me. It was unlike any scene I had ever witnessed.

[Akalina Gannell]

The riders call me traitor, a disgrace. I, I, an army veteran and a police officer, should be executed.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah.

[Glenn Kirschner]

Just for awareness.

[Jim Acosta]

Be advised there's probably about 300 Proud.

[Glenn Kirschner]

Boys that are marching eastbound in this.

[Jim Acosta]

400 block of Kind of Independence actually.

[Michael Fanone]

On the Mall towards the United States Capitol.

[Jim Acosta]

We just had protest key circle, breach the line. We need backup.

[Heather Cox Richardson]

We have a breach of the capital breach of the Capitol to the upper level.

[Akalina Gannell]

My fellow officers and I would punch, kick, shoot, shove, spray with chemical irritants.

[Harry Dunn]

I witnessed the rioters using all kinds of weapons against officers, including flagpoles, metal bike racks that they had torn apart, and various kind of projectiles.

[Jim Acosta]

Eventually, it was my turn in the meat grinder that was the front line. The terrorists had a wall of shields that they had stolen from officers as well as stolen batons. What other armaments they brought. Even during this intense contest of wills, they tried to convert us to their cult. One man shouted, we all just want to make our voices heard. And I think you feel the same. I really think you feel the same. All while another man attempts to batter us with a stolen shield.

[Michael Fanone]

At some point during the fighting, I was dragged from the line of officers and into the crowd. I heard someone scream. I got one. As I was swarmed by a violent mob, they ripped off my badge. They grabbed and stripped me of my radio. They seized ammunition that was secured to my body. They began to beat me with their fists and with what felt like hard metal objects. At one point, I came face to face with an attacker who repeatedly lunged for me and attempted to remove my firearm. I heard chanting from some in the crowd, get his gun and kill him with his own gun.

[Jim Acosta]

All right, good every. Good evening, everybody, and welcome to the National Press club in Washington D.C. thanks for coming tonight, folks. Really appreciate. Is not the Trump National Press Club. By the way, I'm just going to point that out. It's still the National Press Club here in Washington D.C. five years ago today, everybody, the President of the United States incited a violent mob to attack the Capitol and assault American democracy in what was an unconstitutional attempt to overthrow our government. It was an insurrection. Don't let anybody tell you different. It was an insurrection and one we had never seen before because this one was about our government attacking our government. But Donald Trump failed. Part of the reason why he failed was because of the brave men and women of law enforcement who defended the Capitol that day. And they are here with us tonight. Some of them are here with us tonight. Please stand and give them a round of applause. Thank you very much. Appreciate it. All right. Michael Fanone, please stand. Please stand. Harry Dunn, please stand. Akalina Gannell, please stand. Daniel Hodges, please stand. And with us tonight as well is Republican Congressman Adam Kinzinger, who put his career on the line to uncover the truth. Former Congressman Adam Kinzinger, he served on the January 6th committee. I want to welcome all of them to this special program. We are calling this reclaiming democracy. January 6th, five years later. It's not important that we just reflect on the past. Of course we want to do that here tonight. But we want to talk about the future as well, how we can reclaim our democracy. And let me just tell, I just want to say one other thing. Right now, we're about a block or so from the White House. A real president of the United States would have had these gentlemen at the White House earlier today honoring their bravery and courage. And I just, I want to caution the viewers at home who are watching here on YouTube and substack all of the streaming channels out there. You know, this is not a corporate media production. This is an independent media production. And so for folks who may be a little uncomfortable with hearing the truth unvarnished, buckle up, folks, because that's what you're going to get here tonight. Here from the nation's capital. A little later on, we will hear from acclaimed historian Heather Cox Richardson, as well as our friends Olivia Troy, Myles Taylor and Glenn Kirschner. Final message. This is a real treat. A final message you'll hear tonight is from Hollywood legend Robert De Niro. He has sent along a message from that we're going to bring to you later on in just a short while from now. So thanks so much. But first, welcome, gentlemen. Thank you for being here tonight. We appreciate it. Congressman Kinzinger, let me start with you first. Earlier today, the White House put out a tweet, and I hate to start talking about a tweet here, but they put this on the official White House X account and on the official website, a post still pushing the lies about January 6th. I don't know if you saw that blaming what happened on January 6th on Nancy Pelosi and so on. I mean, it's just, it's ridiculous, of course. But what's your response to that? The fact that we're still fighting these lies to this day. And thanks again, Adam, for being here.

[Adam Kinzinger]

Since we're independent media, it's fuck em right? Honestly. And it's an honor to be here. Thank you guys for being here and everybody watching. It is amazing to be up here with these guys because, I mean, they are the reason that I'm here, that others are here. My wife often talks about that. Like she said she got to learn what it was like to be a politician's wife that day. And so listen, when I see like what the White House has done and how they're trying to whitewash it, I know a couple things. Number one, I mean, it's obviously sad. It's not good. I wish this wasn't the case. I wish we weren't still fighting this fight. But I know one thing which is the next three years, it's going to be tough. But I know that the January 6th committee is the living record that my kid is going to learn about that, his kid's going to learn about that. They're going to learn about. They're going to know the truth about January 6th. They're going to know the truth about what these guys, these men and women of law enforcement did. And in three years we're going to flush Donald Trump down the toilet and everything associated with him. So that's what I think. It stinks to see it. But I also look at it and go, look, I know in four years or five years nobody will ever admit they ever supported this guy. And I really believe that.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah. And Adam, I mean, talk about the work on the committee very briefly, what was that like putting together the information? How difficult was that and how important is that information now? Today it almost feels as though, you know, the speaker of the House is trying to hide with the January 6th committee, just like he's trying to hide the plaque honoring the officers on January 6th.

[Adam Kinzinger]

Well, I told him today, I told the committee today, I said, you guys need to make sure because it's definitely going to go up in a year right when the Democrats take the House. And I'm like, you should, as a result, you should actually double the size of it now, I think just to be like, make it bigger, make it.

[Jim Acosta]

Bigger, just make it bigger. That's a good idea.

[Adam Kinzinger]

Do a statue. Now listen, what was it like? I mean, it was, look, I was hoping that our work would be eclipsed by the Department of Justice. That's What I was hoping, actually, I think it was on route to be. I'm sorry, I'm still pretty mad at Merrick Garland for his late start. When we did our first hearing, I mean, we had been investigating for a year. We did our first hearing of that series of hearings in the summer. And that is when the Department of Justice goes, oh, my goodness, there is actually stuff leading up to Donald Trump. And then they began their investigation. And so look, I look at this and go, well, you know, it's. We are we. What we did was difficult. What we did. It was not hard to get, like, Republicans and Democrats to work together because we all were pulling in the same direction. But to be able to get to the answers we did was really a miracle. And we were working hard till the very end. I thought we were going to fail. Everybody thought we were going to fail, and we succeeded. And I think, again, what's the advantage? Well, Donald Trump's president, again, you can look at that and go, well, that's a failure. It's not, because I think the history and the record that we have is going to end up being the accurate record that in 100 years, the kids are going to learn about in school.

[Jim Acosta]

And that's how it needs to be. And just the other day, they released a video of Jack Smith, the special counsel, and his comments. It was to a House committee investigating all of this. And he said this would not have happened had it not been for Donald Trump and Michael Fanon. I'm just going to go to you next. I know just recently you were on NPR talking about the body camera footage and what you were going through that day. Refresh our memories a little bit. I know we can't go through the whole situation as to what you went through, but remind folks what it was like being there that day. Or speak freely. It can be anything.

[Michael Fanone]

Yeah, no, I mean, I really don't take a lot of time to reflect on January 6, 2021. You know, for me, this is just a continuation of the fight that began that day. And usually, you know, I've been in a few fights in my life. You don't take the time to reflect on the origin of that fight while you're still throwing punches. And so that's just how days like this, you know, go for me. I mean, if there was anything that I was going to reflect on today, it was reflecting on Jack Smith's sworn testimony in which he revealed that, you know, the Department of Justice conducted this investigation and that as a result of that investigation, they developed Proof beyond a reasonable doubt that Donald Trump orchestrated, funded, and then incited an insurrection against our government. You know, which, you know, for the kids at home, that's treason. And, you know, let me remind everybody as well that, you know, in our Constitution, it says plainly that anyone who engages in insurrection is ineligible to hold office in this country. It doesn't say anything about a criminal conviction. And we all saw with our eyes, some of us saw it with our eyes, heard it with our ears, and felt it with our bodies, the results of Donald Trump's treasonous insurrection. And so it just makes me reengage and want to fight even harder to make sure that not only is Donald Trump ousted, not only is the MAGA movement in this country defeated, but they are driven so far from political engagement that they are never able to. To be a part of our American society ever again. And that there is, you know, real accountability. I'm a high school dropout. I am not a historian by any stretch of the imagination. But, you know, I've seen a lot of parallels in our history in this country. And, you know, I remember learning about the Civil War and reconstruction and how, you know, we compromised with the Confederates and we allowed them to hold office once again. And I think that we're paying for those sins today, and we need to draw a line. And I believe that those 147 members of Congress that voted to against certifying a free and fair election based solely on the words of Donald Trump, many of whom knew full well that they were lies, and in doing so, lent the credibility of their office to.

[Harry Dunn]

You.

[Michael Fanone]

Know, to this insurrection. Those individuals should be removed from office and should be never allowed to hold office ever again. They're traitors to this country.

[Jim Acosta]

I know one of the things that you and I have talked so many times about this, and I remember when we had the conversation around when Donald Trump got reelected and when he was coming back into the White House, you were not a happy, happy man. Yeah. Take a drink. It's okay. It's five o' clock somewhere. But. And you were. You were pissed, you were angry, you were mad. But one of the things that we've talked about since then is that you have found a purpose in fighting for democracy. And that's part of what this evening, tonight is about, too.

[Harry Dunn]

Yeah. Thank you, everybody, for being here. It's encouraging, it's infectious. I see people show up and still care. I don't know how lonely it is at times when it's just us four talking in what seems to be the Void. And it's been us for. For the longest time. You know, like we joke with each other where. I'm gonna tell them about a text message that Canel sent today. Hey, guys. What you guys wearing?

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah. Yeah. Aqualino asked, should we wear a suit? I said, man, you could do whatever you want. I could. I can tell you right now, Mike Fanon is not wearing a suit.

[Harry Dunn]

What did you say? What did you say?

[Michael Fanone]

Should wear a top tuxedo.

[Harry Dunn]

I said, I'm going nude.

[Jim Acosta]

Now, that would be a show, right? That would be a show.

[Harry Dunn]

I say that to say just how much I appreciate these guys up here with me. Congressman Kinzinger. What, Adam, because you lost your election. No, no, no.

[Adam Kinzinger]

Never lost an election.

[Harry Dunn]

I know.

[Adam Kinzinger]

Just didn't run again.

[Harry Dunn]

I'm thankful for people. I hate acknowledging people because. Because you always forget somebody. But I have to acknowledge my two wonderful attorneys over there who have made whatever the hell me Sergeant Geta us doing. Easy.

[Jim Acosta]

That's right.

[Harry Dunn]

And Mark, Steve David Loughman. Thank you.

[Jim Acosta]

Thank you.

[Harry Dunn]

When I first spoke out like January 7th, I was like, man, I'm going to lose my fucking job for this.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah.

[Harry Dunn]

And like, hey, somebody said, I know a guy. And I reached out to Mark Zaid and next thing you know, I thank you. Thank you. But I found purpose, Right. Because it's. When I first spoke, it was about accountability, holding the person and people responsible for what happened that day. Whether it was. And if the evidence showed that it was Nancy Pelosi, hold her ass accountable, too. We know it wasn't right. But nobody's above accountability is the point that I'm making here. Any and everybody responds. Accountability serves two purposes. It brings some type of closure and some type of peace to the people aggrieved. And it also serves as a deterrent to keep it from happening again. And we haven't had accountability. And I've felt like over these last five years, every fucking week I got to shift the goalpost.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah.

[Harry Dunn]

What accountability looks like because I don't know what it looks like now. So now the mission is push back against these lies. Do not let them rewrite what happened that day. You don't need this panel up here. We don't need you and any pundit. We don't need congressmen to tell us what happened on Jim. We don't need a play by play analysis. Oh, look at that. That's. That's, that's, that's when he started insurrection right there.

[Jim Acosta]

Right.

[Harry Dunn]

Press play.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah.

[Harry Dunn]

It's that bad. So that's Become my mission now and on. Like we talked about the election. Knife through the heart, man. Because it was like America just didn't care about us. It didn't care. But then the resolve came in. People still showing up, people still caring, people still being pissed and refusing to let this go that the way that it had been going. So that continues.

[Jim Acosta]

My.

[Harry Dunn]

What fuels me seeing you all. And I know it sounds silly, Cheese, but you all give me that courage, the strength to keep going. I would do it if it was just one person in here, but y' all make it easier. So thank you all.

[Jim Acosta]

Thank you.

[Harry Dunn]

That's great.

[Jim Acosta]

Akilino, Sergeant Ganell, your thoughts? And you know, when we put the video together to promote this, we. One of the first things that you said in your video was, I'm still suffering from the injuries I sustained that day, both physical and mental. You're still dealing with it.

[Akalina Gannell]

Yeah, I am. It's something that no matter how many pardons or whitewashing the White House does, or his accolades try to do, it will never take the scars out of my body. And sadly, I had to live with that.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah. Daniel's taking a picture. We haven't talked about the pardons. I mean, that's the first thing he did when he came. Remember, he said he was going to solve the Ukraine war on day one and he was going to start lowering prices on day one. Did any of those things? Those things didn't happen. But the thing he did do was he pardoned the criminals who stormed the Capitol.

[Akalina Gannell]

What's more immoral is, or lack of moral is that he parted on the same day where almost half or more of the officer protecting him on that day were there on January 6th. And I'm sure he didn't say, thank you for your service or I'm sorry what happened to you or to your family. He didn't do those things.

[Harry Dunn]

He.

[Akalina Gannell]

I understand that during the campaign, he. He. He campaigned on that, but he also said that he was going to do those things case by case, and that he would never pardon those.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah, J.D. vance said he'll never pardon the people that were violent, violent attack police officers.

[Akalina Gannell]

And within minutes after he got sworn in, he turned her back. So it's a betrayal on the law enforcement community, on the officers, us, and also to the democracy. I mean, you guys saw it, we witnessed it, we experienced it, and we were almost beaten to death. Michael was one of them. He relieved me. I learned that after the facts. Same thing with Danny Hodges. I was right next to him when he was Getting crushed. Yeah, I was.

[Jim Acosta]

We'll never forget the course of the day.

[Akalina Gannell]

I run into these four individuals without even realizing it.

[Jim Acosta]

And did you guys all know each other?

[Akalina Gannell]

No. At that time, I only knew Harry.

[Harry Dunn]

I was my supervisor, believe it or not.

[Jim Acosta]

He was your supervisor? Oh, man. I'm sorry.

[Akalina Gannell]

Believe it or not, an immigrant was his supervisor.

[Jim Acosta]

Oh, my goodness. Don't tell the guy down the street. And you were a good one, too, from what I can tell. Daniel, tell us your thoughts. Either take us back to that day or tell us what you're thinking now. What's going through your mind today? I've been thinking that January 6th feels kind of quaint now because in the year of our Lord 2026, the United States is establishing puppet states in South America, and we're in the beginning stages of ethnic cleansing at home. We got to say it bluntly because it's so horrific, and we got to look it straight in the face. So with these things in mind, you know, a little insurrection five years ago doesn't quite hit the same way, does it? But it's still very relevant even compared to these horrors we face today. Why is that? Because it's. I think it was the last, very last point where Trump thought that he might face some form of accountability for all the horrors that he's brought in life. And he's never faced anything. He's never faced any accountability for any of that. He hasn't faced any accountability for anything throughout his entire career, his entire life. His dodging the draft, his terrible business practices. You can. The laundry list of that, the children that he's assaulted, the women that he's assaulted, collusion with Russia, January 6th. It goes on and on. He has never faced any accountability for it. I think that was the last point. That was the point where he decided, I'm really untouchable now. So now he's going around the world with his military adventurism. He's threatening our allies. And it's. I know it's. I'm not really being upbeat here, but it's important that we face. Well, it's part of the reason why. You know, I don't know if you've heard him lately. He's been asking or talking to the press about whether he's going to get into heaven. Have you seen this thing where he's been saying this? He's been talking, he's saying, I don't know if I'm going to get into heaven. We're like, yeah, no shit, buddy. Yeah. But, yeah, you know have you seen South Park? Exactly, sir. That's right. We were going to show some of that tonight, but I've just been informed we're also on C Span, too.

[Harry Dunn]

So Mary called Georgia and asked for the votes. He's gonna call, like, does anybody get God's number?

[Jim Acosta]

That's true. He's gonna call St. Peter Deeds. Right. I need 11,000 votes to get past the pearly gates. But, Adam, I didn't write any of that by. This was all it says up here. I've been resting for a while. What can I say? But, Adam, the accountability question is important, and it goes back to what the Supreme Court did when they gave Trump a blank check. And, you know, when Harry's saying, well, what does accountability look like to me, it's the elections. It's about getting a new president who will appoint people to the Supreme Court who can start to reverse this stuff. It's not going to be instant gratification. It's not going to happen overnight. But. But that, to me, is the beginning of accountability. It sounds.

[Adam Kinzinger]

Oh, yeah, I agree. You know, it's interesting to, you know, there's this whole thing with Donald Trump, you know, supposedly suing, and then now he can have the Justice Department find in his own favor. So my wife is Salvadorian, and she, she, you know, she's like all our old presidents, whenever they leave, you find out they steal $200 million from the government. In this case, he's not hiding it.

[Jim Acosta]

Right.

[Adam Kinzinger]

He's just doing it. And it's all out there in the open, the correct corruption and everything else. But I think that brings kind of, when we talk about accountability in the election, here's the thing, I mean, yeah, we have a year for coming elections. Those will be very important. Three years for super important election. And so we have a tendency to get, like, really depressed and, like, look and say, oh, my gosh, look at all this damage that's being done. And I think, look, I think starting at the beginning of last year, we felt like we were on this freight train, right? That was kind of out of control, all the damage to our democracy. I do feel like the brakes have been put on now. That freight train still has momentum. It's still going to do some damage. So we're still going to see some things done to our country. But I feel like between Epstein, between, you know, a lot of stuff that's happened, he's starting to lose his groove, and in a year, he's going to lose his ability to have any kind of groove. And so that's where I think the most important thing we can do is to just not lose our courage and not lose our hope.

[Jim Acosta]

Right?

[Adam Kinzinger]

Danny was talking about the idea of hope and courage, and that's it. Look, these guys, I know them, they get energized by chaos. Chaos is their thing. They love it, right? They love invading Venezuela and us not knowing what's going to happen. They love threatening Greenland. They love threatening Canada. All of this energizes them. They love the fact that they know that's misinformation at the White House about what happened on January 6th, but they don't care. That's the chaos. It's power. You and I get exhausted by it, right? How many of you know somebody that's given up already in politics right now? They're just like, I'm done. I'm out.

[Jim Acosta]

Right?

[Adam Kinzinger]

So our battle for the next year and three years is to make sure that more of us stay engaged than them. And that's what we have to do.

[Jim Acosta]

That's.

[Adam Kinzinger]

And that's how we have accountability. And I'll tell you, I talk to all these guys, and there's times where, I mean, I was talking to Fanon in the back, and I'm just like, man, today it's just, you know, it's. We're going through this and you. But then we come out here and I get re energized again. You're going to go through that every day of your life. There are going to be days you need to give up, days you want to give up. There are days you should not look at any media and get re energized.

[Jim Acosta]

Right?

[Adam Kinzinger]

That's okay. Because in the long run, we need you to stay engaged. That's how we're gonna win. Because if you get discouraged, they're gonna win because they love you getting discouraged.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah, that's right. That's right. And Mike, Adam is right. They love throwing out Venezuela. They love doing these things to get everybody whipped into a frenzy because they want the conversation, they want the narrative to be on their terms. But it doesn't have to be that way. And I, you know, I was looking at Mike before we got started. Mike's doing a podcast, and the hour before we're coming out here, Harry's doing a podcast. Everybody, you know, everybody is busy trying to get the message out. Don't lose hope. You got to keep going your thoughts.

[Michael Fanone]

I don't know if my message is don't lose hope. Yeah, I mean, my message is like.

[Jim Acosta]

That would be Adam's Message, I'm sorry.

[Michael Fanone]

Stay angry, stay engaged. And, I mean, unfortunately for me, I think that the fight has gotten much more complicated. I mean, now I feel like I'm fighting on two fronts, because I'm fighting against the Republican Party, which has become the party of insurrection. I'm fighting against the Democratic Party because they're a bunch of pussies. And, you know, because it's not enough for me. I feel betrayed by my country. In fact, I don't feel it. I was betrayed by my country, and, you know, everybody that's sitting up here was betrayed by their country. In order for me to feel at home again in this country, I need more than political accountability. It's not enough for me that Democrats win in the midterms, and then that we get a Democratic Party president, or at least a president that upholds the Constitution and believes in Democratic principles. I want somebody who is going to punish those.

[Jim Acosta]

That.

[Michael Fanone]

Ransacked our capital and ransacked our Constitution and destroyed the country that I love. Because right now, to me, America is not livable. This is not a place that I want to raise my children. Now, you know, for all you maggots that are watching this, I ain't going anywhere.

[Miles Taylor]

So.

[Michael Fanone]

Don'T think that, oh, you know, Mike Fanone's gonna go relocate somewhere else. This is my country. You are gonna go somewhere the fuck else.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah. And Adam, Mike, as always, you know, hits it home for us, and I appreciate that. But just today, Trump was over at the Kennedy Center. We're not going to call it the Trump Kennedy center, just like we're not going to call it the Gulf of America. We're going to call it the Gulf of Mexico and so on. But he was over at the Kennedy center with a bunch of some of your former colleagues and was joking about canceling the elections this year. I don't know if you saw that, but it starts as a joke, and then it becomes serious. What do we do if these midterm elections are threatened, if they're meddled with? That's for you. Yeah. What happens?

[Adam Kinzinger]

Look, one of the great things about a decentralized election system, sometimes it's bad, sometimes it's good. The good thing is you can't cancel nationwide elections. Now, that doesn't mean they're not going to try. And I think some of what you've seen with the National Guard in cities, which, by the way, let's recognize at least that that's been pushed back a little bit, that's a victory. But what you see is the beginning of that test. And it's not going to be necessarily Donald Trump saying hopefully he's not going to say like national emergency, no elections, but maybe it's putting National Guard in certain areas of a city, of a swing state. Right. Maybe it's a the black part of a city where if you put the National Guard there or all of a sudden you put a bunch of federal agents, then they're going to be a little intimidated maybe to go turn out and vote. And that 2 or 3% difference could make a difference in these various races. So here's how we overcome that. We're going to just have to kick their ass. It's going to have to be a blue wave. And I'm going to tell you, if the Democrats have a victory, but it's not a monstrous victory, that's a judgment on them because this should be a year where we see the equivalent of the wave. I came in as a Republican in 2010. This should be a massive wave on the other side, on the blue side, winning 70 or 80 seats and hopefully putting the Senate in play. So that's going to be the key, is recognize they can tinker around the margins. It's quite possible. That's why you have to have such an outstanding victory that it's not even going to be worth their effort.

[Jim Acosta]

All right. And Adam, we think Adam has to go. Adam has to go. But thank you very much, everybody. I appreciate round of applause for Deb Kinzinger. There you go. Appreciate it. We're not, the show's not done. We're going to keep going. But. Thank you, ma'.

[Olivia Troye]

Am.

[Jim Acosta]

Appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you, buddy. Thank. All right. The great Adam Kinzinger. And I'm going to sit down now because that's a lot of standing. And I haven't, you know, that's been too much standing for me.

[Harry Dunn]

You're walking around the audience like you're.

[Jim Acosta]

Jerry Springer doing that Jerry Springer thing. I was waiting for Fanon to pick up a chair and hit somebody like, you know, Geraldo or something like that. But Geraldo's not here. I'm here. So you're stuck with me. But Harry, your thoughts on, I mean, I know Mike's got a good point. I agree with him that, you know, it's almost kind of trite and simplistic to say, oh, well, the elections will fix everything. We've tried to do elections, and they don't always fix everything.

[Harry Dunn]

And also, whoever's elected president next, God bless them because nothing or her. I said them I said them sorry.

[Olivia Troye]

Or her.

[Jim Acosta]

Or her.

[Harry Dunn]

Absolutely. Hell yeah. God bless them. Because no matter what they do, it won't be enough. And this country is going to demand everything be erased. Let's be clear what happened and what he's done already in one year. It's going to take generations to repair, to rebuild. It's not just going to happen. Now. We could demolish that ballroom on day one. We could do that. Throw a wrecking ball at it. Right, that, that's easy.

[Jim Acosta]

What about the name on the, on the Kennedy Center?

[Harry Dunn]

Rip that shit off tomorrow.

[Jim Acosta]

Like that comes down to.

[Harry Dunn]

Absolutely.

[Jim Acosta]

But I just got the tacky gold everywhere does that.

[Harry Dunn]

It'll probably burn. That's not gold, man.

[Jim Acosta]

Also the flames from that, you know, it's got to be, it's got to be tough.

[Harry Dunn]

Yeah, absolutely. But it's going to be a tough Donald Trump. So I don't know when he said this, but he did. If the Democrats take back the House, they're going to impeach me. Yeah, yeah. No, that should be. Are you kidding me?

[Jim Acosta]

That's something that was true.

[Harry Dunn]

No, but, but, but no. Elections start to fix things. They start to. But people have to continue to show up. Not just for one election cycle or one president cycle. No, you have to continue to stay. And also local elections too, like that type of stuff matters. Local elections matter more, I think for individuals on day to day basis than national elections do.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah, that's right. And I know we've been talking about sort of the here and now and everything, but Aquilino, we haven't done this during this session. Talk a little bit about what happened to you and the process of what you went through. Because I remember when you came on my old show, you walked on the set one day and you brought a tennis ball with you. And I was like, what's the tennis ball for? And you were doing physical therapy at that point because you had sustained so many injuries, you were having trouble holding things. Yeah, talk about that.

[Akalina Gannell]

That was like yesterday, I think. Yeah, no, but I cannot speak too much about the injuries because there's something going on legally. But on. At that time when I first met you, I was still going through physical therapy on my shoulder. My foot already had, I guess had by then. I already have recovered a little bit after the surgery. So still limping around with. On my foot and on my shoulders. Still jacked up. But it was challenging. On that day, I was assaulted by More than 40 rioters.

[Jim Acosta]

40.

[Akalina Gannell]

More than 40. There's videos and pictures of them. Doing those things to me.

[Jim Acosta]

And there's an Internet sleuth here tonight, you said, right, who helped identify some of those folks.

[Akalina Gannell]

Right.

[Jim Acosta]

And I thank him in the audience.

[Akalina Gannell]

He's all the way in the back.

[Jim Acosta]

Thank you. Yeah, he's in the back. I met him before the show. He's standing up there in the back. But people forget that there were these. People forget there were these Internet sleuths who were going into the video and geotagging things and saying, I recognize this guy. I mean, people forget all this stuff. This is how we were able to capture some of these people and arrest them.

[Akalina Gannell]

This guy is amazing. He. Him and his colleagues, they helped me identify at least 20 other individuals. They assaulted me. There were others that were never held accountable because Donald Trump pardoned them before they were identified or prosecuted in jail. The day of the pardon, the next day, I was supposed to be in court for sentencing, and Donald Trump took that away from me. Regarding the injuries, I mean, it's a challenge, not only the physical, but the mental component of it, and not only did the component of it also adds to the moral injury as well, because at the end of the day, we all four and the other colleagues at that time, we did the right thing for the right reason. And because of that, Donald Trump doesn't want us near him or the narrative of January 6, that it was violent, it was horrific for our democracy in our nation. And, you know, he wants to hang out with some. Some of the colleagues that don't believe what happened. Thank God that we're not her. We were.

[Harry Dunn]

Yeah.

[Akalina Gannell]

That's the difference of our case, and that's why we are outspoken about it, because we were at the brunt, at the forefront of the violence of that day, especially in the tunnel when Michael Fennon relieved me and he got dragged into the mouth down in. Hodges was right next to me. He was getting crushed just like I was right next to him.

[Jim Acosta]

Daniel was in the door.

[Akalina Gannell]

Yes, Daniel right next to him.

[Jim Acosta]

You were right next to him at that.

[Akalina Gannell]

I know him. At that time, neither I knew Michael, but over time, I got to know them, and I could not be any more proud than to have fought with these guys. And I know they got my back and I got theirs.

[Jim Acosta]

Absolutely. And for the folks, for the folks who are watching, watching here in the audience and at home, you need to understand these are like the four musketeers right here.

[Adam Kinzinger]

Right.

[Jim Acosta]

I mean, these guys, they're now, you know, lifelong friends, and you have each other's back. It is a cool thing.

[Akalina Gannell]

I mean, and there's another thing like, look, today I was trying to keep a low profile, not paying attention to any of those things. I hadn't done much media at all. And I popped in on one of the groups that we have for officers in the capital and it just demoralized me because some of the guys that I fought for, that I was with on that day, they were criticizing us, saying things like, why are we the only four officer who get interviewed? Well, they had a chance. I had given them the platform. I asked them whether they want to speak up. They never does. Then they complain about what? Well, how come you guys only don't the only one getting recognized? Well, step of the plate and be out there, talk about get harassed.

[Jim Acosta]

I'm glad you are speaking out. I mean, you know, the story has to be told, people. I mean, this is living history. And Daniel, can you talk a little bit about your road to recovery and what that's been like? Because the image of we all have it fresh in our minds, I think we can all kind of imagine what you were going through that day. We don't have to show the video. I mean, everybody around the world saw it, right? Well, I've been very fortunate compared to so many of my colleagues like Ganel in that while I did, I was assaulted in a variety of ways that day, including being crushed, beaten in the head with my own baton, bleeding from the mouth, hit in the back of the head with metal objects, punched, kicked, knocked down for hours. But I was fortunate because all my pieces parts still work. I had a headache for a couple weeks, so I likely had some sort of concussion, but I was able to recover and go back to work. And a lot of my colleagues were not so fortunate. They were either physically unable or mentally unable and they had to leave the job. But I still have the job. I don't want them to take that from me. So I am still doing what I do. And we can't. Yeah. And we can't forget people like Brian Sicknick. There were other officers who died in the days following January 6th. Mike, I think going back to what you were saying earlier, there needs to be penalty penalties. There needs to be punishment. There needs to be real accountability.

[Michael Fanone]

Yeah, I mean, I, you know, I don't know what that looks like at this point because Donald Trump pardoned everybody that was involved with the.

[Jim Acosta]

Some of these guys are still, they're going out there and getting arrested again. I mean, he pardoned.

[Michael Fanone]

I mean that. But you know, I've talked about that a lot that really goes to debunking the, you know, the Republican talking point in the aftermath of January6, which was that these were, you know, these good, wholesome Americans that stormed the Patriots. Like, every single person that was charged with assaulting me had a prior criminal record, and their record was, you know, things like drug distribution, robbery, you know, child sexual assault. I mean, these were scumbags. You know, for lack of a better term, these were the dregs of society that Donald Trump invited into his political forum because, you know, ultimately, these are the people that were dumb enough to believe his bullshit and dumb enough to go commit felonies at his behest. You know, these are not the. The pride of. Of any community, but they were pardoned and they absolved of. Of criminal culpability. And, you know, you know, not only did they absolve them, but he's also emboldened others who would, you know, commit crimes. I mean, when Donald. When Donald Trump pardoned those individuals, the threats against me spiked exponentially in the weeks afterwards. And I've never. I mean, I've had. I have people now that threaten me so specifically that, you know. But they know that there will be no criminal penalties for that. Yeah. I mean, I've pursued legislative efforts in a number of different states, spoken to state representatives about, you know, at the very least, drafting legislation that would prohibit anyone who was charged criminally for their role in the January 6th insurrection from either holding any type of job, office, what have you, within, you know, within the state, or even if they work for a contractor, preventing that contractor from accepting statewide contracts, unfortunately. Hold your applause. Because even in Democratic states, there's no appetite for that whatsoever. And, you know, you really, with politicians, my experience has been like, we just need to move forward as a country. And, you know, I mean, and that's why I don't believe that there's going to be a. I don't. I don't see a political resolution to what we're experiencing in this country. I think that it's going to have to be something dramatic that comes from, you know, we the people. I think that, you know, obviously elections are going to play a part in that, but I think that, you know, we can't just disengage once we right the ship, so to speak, when it comes to, you know, changing out real Democratic politicians for insurrectionists. I think we need to stay on top of those politicians and make sure that we elect people that are going to go for the jugular, so to speak, when it comes to holding these People accountable.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah.

[Akalina Gannell]

To piggyback on.

[Jim Acosta]

Go ahead.

[Akalina Gannell]

On what Michael said. I remember when I was deployed in Iraq and I came back, one thing that the provisional governor of Iraq did under the Brennan who was running the.

[Jim Acosta]

Paul Bremer.

[Akalina Gannell]

Yeah, Paul Bremer. They did a de baffification of the Saddam Hussein government. And I think we need to do that here once Donald Trump leaves and purge those people who were placed for political reason and restore the career. Career people into the service that way. It could be.

[Jim Acosta]

And Harry, it's going to take. It's going to. The Democratic Party is going to have to find some fighters out there.

[Akalina Gannell]

And also today, I think, I believe Danny Hodges also was also supporting and myself a legislation by Senator Padilla in White House which also similar to what Michael Fanon did in Coppola states. And this will be a federal legislation if it passes through where no January 6th rioters get any settlements, compensation, retitution, reparation or jobs in the federal government.

[Jim Acosta]

But Harry, to Mike's point, the Democratic Party needs fighters in the Congress. You can't have. Well, you know, we need to get this legislation passed on this other stuff. So I'm going to compromise with these Republicans over here, here. And maybe we can't do this. January 6th, you tried to run for Congress and it didn't work out. But I hope you'll reconsider and try this again because I think having a guy like, I think having a guy like Harry in Congress when you were running, it was hard for me to contain my objectivity. I'm just going to say, right. I was like, I was like, go, Harry. You know, but that's what we need. I think we need to. You need fighters, man. Democracy fighters.

[Harry Dunn]

All right, everybody. I'm here to announce tonight that I have not decided if I'm going.

[Jim Acosta]

I tried everybody.

[Harry Dunn]

I tried. No, you're 100% right. And that's the reason why I decided to run for Congress because I believe we need fighters in Congress. Mike said described the Democrats in Congress a certain way. And you know, we don't need those type of people there. I agree. We, we need people that are going to fight, that are going to stand up, that will be the voice of the people and not voices for themselves or corporations or anybody else except for the neighborhood, the community that you represent. That's your job as a congressman or woman.

[Jim Acosta]

There you go.

[Harry Dunn]

But yes, we do need fighters in a time like this. This ain't about conventional governing and reaching across the aisle and bar when once there's no need for balance when one side is flat out lying.

[Jim Acosta]

That's right.

[Harry Dunn]

There's no balance, my ass, man. No way. So we need people that are going to fight and that are going to show up. That's why I did run. And no, I haven't ruled out running again, but I. I want to do what makes the most sense and continue to show up and do what makes sense.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah. Well, thank you guys very much. Let's give another round of applause to Mike, Harry, Aquilino and Daniel. Guys, thank you very much. Really appreciate it. Seriously, thanks so much. Thank you. Thank you. Great job. Thank you. Heroes. These are heroes right here. Come on in here. Come on in here. Come on in here. Now, the show is not over, so stand by for folks who are watching at home. The show is not over, but this is what should have taken place at the White House today. This is what should have taken place at the White House and the Capitol earlier today, and it will happen in the future. Guys, thank you very much. Appreciate it. Thank you. The guys will be sticking around. I think we'll see how it goes. But I do want to. I think we're going to bring her up on screen now. Historian Heather Cox Richardson, if I'm not mistaken. We have Heather standing by. I think this is going to work. If we can. There's Heather right there. Hi, Heather. Good to see you.

[Heather Cox Richardson]

Hey, everybody. I can only see the backs of your head, but it's a real joy to be here.

[Jim Acosta]

It's wonderful to have you here. And we'll have to keep the hootin and hollering to a bare minimum here because we want to be able to hear you, Heather, but it's great to see you. Thank you so much for making time for us. How about those January 6th officers? They're just absolute heroes.

[Heather Cox Richardson]

So, listen, you know, I cannot tell you, and I was watching you all, and I know all their names, and you think about how, in many ways, they were the first wave of Americans from everyday lives to step up and say, hey, this country matters. And, you know, I know Mike Fanon a little bit, and I'm telling you, I think about him a lot and the fact that he had our backs, and I think we should have their backs. But I'm also telling you, I would take that man in a fight in a foxhole in the last ship every single day for a lot of the people who are in our government.

[Jim Acosta]

And, Heather, we were talking a little bit about the history of this moment, having accountability. What is. How does January 6th fit into this country's history, in your view?

[Heather Cox Richardson]

You know, I always compared it to the Civil War, to the. You know, one of the things that really jumped out to me about January 6th was the fact that the insurrection revolutionists did what the Confederacy had never managed to do. The Confederate battle flag flew in the United States Capitol. And that's a really big deal. And when I think about that, when I think about the fact that, you know, I always talk about Julia Ward Howe in that moment. She was a woman from Massachusetts who visited Washington, D.C. and looked out at the fires that were burning around the campsites of the men who were stationed around the Capitol to protect it, around Washington to protect it. And she went home that night and she wrote Mine Eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord. And, you know, you know, that song, it's a battle hymn of the Republic. He is trampling out the vintage where the grapes of wrath are stored. But a lot of people don't know the next verse, which is, I have seen him in the watch fires of a hundred circling camps they have builded him an altar in the evening dews and damps. And I think about those people who were stationed around that Capitol for four years to make sure that the Confederates could never get in, and they never did. And under Donald Trump, the Confederates stormed the White House. That I've never been able to get over. So when I think about that moment, that attempt to overturn our democracy to keep one man in power so he could keep a minority in control of the US Government, a minority that was going to rule over the rest of us, to me, it's just a continuation of the Civil War. And I think that Officer Gennell is absolutely right that we're going to have to make sure, as we did not in the 1860s, that that idea of minority rule is completely crazy. Crushed in the United States of America.

[Glenn Kirschner]

Absolutely.

[Jim Acosta]

And, Heather, what does our history tell us about how we can get through this moment? Because Mike was very, I think, a fair way to put it, is disillusioned, unsure whether the democratic process will ultimately be the remedy here, whether there needs to be real accountability through our law enforcement system. You and I have talked about this. The Supreme Court gave Donald Trump a blank check. We're seeing the impacts of that today and all this week with what he's done in Venezuela and so on. But your thoughts on whether we have it in us to get past this moment?

[Heather Cox Richardson]

Oh, we have it in us. I have no doubt of that at all. But I don't Think it's going to be easy. And the thing is, this is not just about Donald Trump. This is a country that for 40 years has been backsliding, sliding away from democratic norms. And there's a lot of work that we're going to have to do to fix those things. There's the Supreme Court. Yes. But there is also the fact that, you know, back in 1929, Congress put a cap on the number of people you could have in the House of Representatives, which pushed the representation of the country toward rural areas rather than towards cities. So they have a much bigger voice in our government than they would have had the Congress not done that. You know, there's all these different ways in which our system has been skewed to favor, as I say, this political minority. You think about the Electoral College. Actually, that goes all the way back to 1800. It's Thomas Jefferson. You know, it's a joke. I hate Thomas Jefferson. One of the reasons that I don't like him is because he gave us the winner take all electoral system. If we even divided our electoral votes the way they was intended to be in the Constitution, we would not have some of the problems that we have with the Electoral College. But, you know, there's all these different ways in which our system has been weighted toward a political minority, Citizens United and so on. Those are all remediable issues. But we have to have the political will to do it. And one of the things that I always like to emphasize, and I think you can see with this administration, is that the administration has worked as if the Constitution doesn't exist. It's not just broken laws. It is acting as if there are no laws. And the thing about our Constitution is that it literally rests on the power of we the people in that document. We the people give our power to our elected officials to make rules that we endorse. We not like them all, but we like the system under which we live, or we change it. We in the United States of America have to demonstrate that they have taken power that we have not given them, and we need to take our power back. And when we do that, then we can work on these different pieces of it. You know, Montana is chipping away at Citizens United in really interesting ways. The Electoral College is not sustainable the way it is. You know, there's all these different ways in which we will be able to take these issues apart, I hope in my lifetime. But we have to demonstrate in this moment that politicians better be with us or they're going to lose our. Lose their seats in our halls of Congress.

[Jim Acosta]

I think that's so powerful, Heather. Yeah. And here's because part of the reason why we're doing tonight, we've been calling this reclaiming Democracy because it's not just about talking about what happened on January 6th. That's totally important, no question about it. But it's also about how we can reclaim our democracy as a people. And I think some of the things that you're talking about go to that point. I mean, we're here in Washington, D.C. where we have taxation without representation. There is no statehood here. You have all of these citizens of Washington, D.C. who have had the National Guard come in and take over from places like Louisiana and West Virginia and so on. And what can we do to reclaim our democracy moving forward?

[Heather Cox Richardson]

Well, so one of the things that I like to do is think about where the levers of power are. You know, it's fine to get frustrated, but to think, where can I make a difference? Where can I change things? And of course, that starts at the local level. And that was a big deal in the last set of elections. The degree to which the people who were trying to take over school boards for a right wing agenda lost, they lost across the country. So you can obviously start at the local level. But then there are other levers of power as well. One of the other things that jumps out from the beginning of this administration is the degree to which people standing against Tesla put a really big dent in Tesla's profits. You know, there are places we can spend our money in such a way that it puts pressure on people. But the really big place for me to put pressure right now or that I think is worth putting pressure right now is that it is not a stretch for anybody who's watching politics to recognize that President Donald Trump does not have his full mental faculties. This is a real problem for the Republican.

[Jim Acosta]

We've talked about this.

[Heather Cox Richardson]

Yes, I missed this.

[Jim Acosta]

But no, I mean, you and I have.

[Heather Cox Richardson]

But yeah, no, this is a problem. And I don't mean that. That's just a problem for us. That's a problem for the Republican Party. Did they want to go into the 2026 elections with an incredibly unpopular president that you don't know what he's going to do next? And the answer to that is unless they're planning to rig the elections beyond hope, no, they do not want to go into the 2026 elections that way. And that means that one of the places to put pressure, I think, is on Republican elected officials saying, really, really, you're going to keep giving grandpa the keys to the car so he can run over more toddlers? I don't think so. And that recognition that MAGA is weak, that MAGA is dividing between the neo Nazis who are going down their own rabbit hole and Republicans who really just wanted cheaper eggs is going to be an important way to use leverage in such a way that it weakens the power of maga, weakens the power of Donald Trump and regains it for the vast majority of Americans that we know do not like the tariffs, do not like the deportations, do not like invading other countries like the rules based international order like Social Security, like health care. There's a very clear divide in the United States between people who want a democracy and people who want a dictatorship. And there's a lot more of us on the democracy side than on the dictatorship side.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah, that's right. That's absolutely right. And I mean, Heather, you and I have talked about this, but I'll bring it up in front of this audience. I mean, I remember didn't Trump talk about sleepy Joe Biden and weren't they saying on Fox who's really in charge over at the White House when Joe Biden was president? You know, who's really pulling the strings? Is Kamala Harris really present? I think that's a relevant question. Now you have Stephen Miller and Marco Rubio. It looks like they just want to sort of carve up the world like a bunch of 19th century century, you know, dictators. It's just unbelievable what we're seeing right now.

[Heather Cox Richardson]

It is. And that's really interesting with the Venezuela thing because, you know, this has been the least transparent presidency at least in the modern era. So it's a little hard to tell who's doing what. But it's really noticeable that the person out in front screaming about tearing apart the rules based international order is Stephen Miller, who's the White House deputy chief of staff. And that, you know, you do have to wonder, lots of reports out now that Marco Rubio did not expect to be told that we were taking over Venezuela. That's why he was walking it back on Saturday. Really clear that there's a lot of confusion over what's happening in that White House and that people are taking advantage of the extraordinary power of the American people. Remember, we talk about the American military and so on. That's the American people and using it for their own ends. And that's something that we must push back on. And one of the ways to push back on that is to say, listen, who's calling the shots here because I don't know about you. I didn't vote for Stephen Miller. I didn't vote for Russell Vogt. You know who's really calling the shots here.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah. And I will tell you that I was never offered a chance to have Stephen Miller on this program. And we would have it anyway if they did offer him and insist that he be on this program. We don't do that on this show. But, Heather, let's talk about the dangers ahead, though, because one of the things that concerns me is, you know, we sort of move from Donald Trump looking like he's joking about something to actually doing it. And so today over at the Kennedy center, we're not calling it the Trump Kennedy center, we're calling it the Kennedy Center. He was joking in front of a bunch of congressional Republicans that he might cancel the upcoming elections. I think we should take that seriously. I don't think that's a joke.

[Heather Cox Richardson]

I think we should, too. And actually, I'm glad you said that because I pulled that quote in the hopes we might go somewhere. I think it's very important and it ties together a lot of things he said. I wish you could explain to me what the hell is going on with the mind of the public because we have the right policy. They, they don't. They have horrible policy. They do stick together. They're violent, they're vicious. They're vicious people. They have the worst policy. How we even have to run against these people. I won't say cancel the election. They should cancel the election because the fake news will say he wants the elections cancelled. He's a dictator. They always call me a dictator. Nobody is worse than, than Obama and the people that surrounded Biden. But if you tear that apart, what it seems to me is saying is that he has absorbed Republican rhetoric from the past 40 years that said only the Republicans know how to govern. The Democrats don't. Now, again, mind you, it's always under Democrats that we get economic recoveries and job growth. But this rhetoric that only the Republicans understand how to run an economy, he's internalized that to say Democrats are illegitimate, they can only win by cheating. And you saw that on January 6, 2021, when he tried to overturn an election that a Democrat had won by more than 7 million votes and one handily in the Electoral College. So I think you see there this idea that anything he says should go and those of us who stand against him are just wrong. And that's sort of been the direction that the rhetoric of The Republican Party has been going since at least the 1990s. But in this moment, you're seeing a lot of people who voted for Trump with the idea that he would do what was good for them. Look at the fact that they're losing their hospitals and that the price of consumer prices is rising. And looking at all that and saying, wait a minute, where is my price part of all this? And in the past, when we have had this kind of a break in a political system where there's sort of chaos on that one side and somebody stepping forward to say, I'm just going to take everything over, you've started to see a massive realignment and a rebirth of both parties. And I think that we can see that happen if we put muscle behind it going forward in this moment.

[Jim Acosta]

Absolutely. And, Heather, finally, you've been a pioneer in independent media. The whole country is glued to your posts every time they come out. Can you talk a little bit about how important independent media are at this moment? Because it seems to me, I mean, just the other day there was another story about cbs. Oh, my goodness. I worked for CBS in the early 2000s. So I care very much about what happens there. And, you know, we're seeing one media company after another just coming up short in this moment. And it seems to you and I talked about this having an independent news community, and if we band together, we can keep the truth alive in this country.

[Heather Cox Richardson]

Well, yes. And again, we the way we got Abraham Lincoln was through a new independent media in the 1850s. And the way we got Theodore Roosevelt was from a new independent media in the 1890s. And the way, you know, this is how you get new political movements. And I think it's worth thinking about the media under which many of us grew up now as not being media so much as being a wing of a corporation. There's a corporation that has a media wing. And that's a very different thing than somebody like you or me. And the thing about us is that I'm not beholden to anybody except my readers. And so I don't have to worry about what I say. I don't have to kowtow to anybody. And I think that that's what people really want to see and certainly in a democracy must see. Because at the end of the day, when you are making decisions about who you want to have make laws for you, you must have access to good information. And when people say information is power, that's not just a slave slogan. You can't run a business, for example, if your business partner is embezzling funds and you don't know or is secretly making a deal to start a business with somebody else. The same is true of politics and running a society. You must have access to accurate information. You don't always like what that information says, but you need to have it in order to make good decisions about your life. And when you get media that is not giving you good information, or certainly when you get a political system that is lying to you, it's not just that they're joking or that they are eliding the truth. They are literally taking away your right to make informed decisions about your life. So when I write, I'm not really. I mean, I'm trying to keep a record for history, but what I'm really trying to do is empower Americans to make good decisions about their lives as they are explained in the public sphere. You're not going to make the same decisions I make, but if I can give you access to good information, you can make good decisions about your life. And that's what independent media does. And there's a reason that independent media is taking off the way it is in this moment, because you can't trust CBS if they're going to pull 60 minutes because they don't like the way it represented the Trump administration. So in a way, I feel like us rising, the way we are doing is part of this new small d democratic movement that is pushing back against the rise of autocracy in the United States. It's really quite exciting to be part of it.

[Jim Acosta]

Absolutely. Yes. And, Heather, we are so excited that you are with us here this evening. The great Heather Cox Richardson. We all. I don't have to plug you because everybody knows what you do and how you do it, but thank you so much, Heather, and I appreciate you so much. Thank you.

[Heather Cox Richardson]

And thank you, everybody, for what you're doing.

[Jim Acosta]

Thank you, Heather. Really appreciate the wonderful Heather Cox Richardson. I feel like we always learn something when I have Heather on the show. And I also can just stop talking because Heather's so great. She could just. She could just take over, which is wonderful. Okay, so next, I do want to share a message that I received earlier. Well, I guess it was a day or two ago as we get our panel up on stage from a Hollywood legend, Robert De Niro. And he wanted to be here. He couldn't be here. He's a busy man. As you've seen, he's done a lot of movies over the years. But Lewis, who is here, one of his staffers helped put together a statement from Mr. De Niro, and I want to read it to you because it is so important. Then we're going to get to our panel and. Tara, did you want to take part in our panel? You come on up here. We got an extra seat. We got Tara Suttmeyer here. Tara's going to jump up here, too. It's all, when it comes to reclaiming democracy, it's all hands on deck. That was like a Price is Right kind of thing. There wasn't like, come on down, Tara, you're our next. But this is. This is what Robert De Niro wrote to all of us. And you're gonna have to forgive me because I don't have a third arm or hand here, but this is from Mr. De Niro. Hello, friends. I'm sorry. And I won't do it in his voice, although I do a pretty good. You talking to me? I was gonna do that, but I'm not gonna. He says, hello, friends. I'm sorry I can't be in the room with you today, but I'm with you in every other way. When I think of January 6th, and I often do, I'm filled with rage and disgusting. My thoughts tend to Pool in three areas. The first is January 6 itself and the lead up to the insurrection. It was nothing less than an attempt to overthrow the government and the United States of America. Think of it. An armed rebellion, a coup, a kind of action that happens in less enlightened countries, not in ours. And he's absolutely right about that. And all of it because of the vanity, arrogance and moral bankruptcy of one man. There is no question, none, that President Trump is practically and morally responsible for provoking the events of the day. De Niro points out those are not his words. That was Senator Mitch McConnell. Good one, Bob. But while it took one man to provoke the Capitol or provoke the attack on the Capitol, it took a village of Republican enablers to go along with it. Senators and representatives who survived the assault, thanks to the brave Capitol and Metropolitan Police. Police. It's fitting that we honor them. And I'm happy to do that today with Harry Dunn, Michael Fanone, Akadena Gannell and Daniel Hodges. They're here with you to represent these heroes. And let's give them one more round of applause, folks. De Niro goes on to say the second January 6th abomination is the pardons commutations of the insurrectionists.

[Miles Taylor]

Hear, hear.

[Jim Acosta]

Our founders gave the President pardon power to be used sparingly for justice and mercy. They never envisioned a self dealing, wannabe mobster like Trump. Trump's message is clear. You are free to break the law as long as he gets something out of it. Absolutely right. You can be a violent rioter attacking our government to keep him in power, or a corrupt crypto bandit enriching the Trump family. Bob is on top of it. That brings me to the third area. He says there's nothing we can do about what happened five years ago and then one year ago. Those despicable acts are history. But there is something we can do that we must do, and that is rescue the truth from the distorted history Trump and his Republican co conspirators are promoting. Mr. De Niro goes on to say, because Trump is thoroughly corrupt, he believes. He actually believes that the truth is whatever he says it is. Say it enough and people will believe it. Slavery, if it happened at all, was good that he won the 2020 election, that he stopped eight wars, not including the ones he started like Venezuela. Bob is very current here. That windmills are driving the whales crazy. I still can't figure that one. And that he was unaware and not a party to his pal Epstein's horrific crimes. Bob says in conclusion that January 6th, a day that will live in infamy, was a day of love. With a brain as small as his fingers, Mr. De Niro goes on to say he can't wrap his head around the virtue of honesty. As Jesus said, ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. We are, or were, a great nation because of our history, our rich and messy history, riddled with deplorable practices and distinguished by triumphs of the human spirit. We don't erase our sins. We confront them. We try to correct them. And our better selves commit to not repeating them. And that, my friends, is what really makes America great. Thank you, Jim Acosta, for organizing this gathering, bringing together patriots who will ensure that we honestly reckon with the events and consequences of January 6th. He closes on this. Dr. King told us that the arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice. I would just add that without truth, there can be no justice. It's been said that history is written by the victim victors. The victors we oppose are losing their edge. The victors we oppose are losing their edge, he says, and the history they attempt to write is written in disappearing ink. This is a battle we cannot lose. And thank you for leading the way. Thank you. That's for Mr. Dinero.

[Akalina Gannell]

Okay.

[Jim Acosta]

That's all right. We'll leave that there.

[Harry Dunn]

Okay.

[Jim Acosta]

And with that, I'm going to sit back down and welcome our panel. The great Glenn Kirschn, former federal prosecutor Olivia Troy, the former national security advisor to Mike Pence, Miles Taylor, who tried to warn the public about Donald Trump during the first administration and has been basically deemed Persona non grata by the president, and Tara Setmayer of the Seneca Project. Thanks to all of you for being here. We really appreciate it. Glenn, let me start with you, because you and I have had this conversation before on the subject of accountability, and I think we're all going to be going home thinking about Mike Fanon's words this evening and the message that he sent, which I think is very important, and that is people are suspicious that our. Our government can deliver accountability at this point. That hurts. That must hurt a federal prosecutor.

[Glenn Kirschner]

Yeah, especially. You know, I am a rule of law guy. I spent my whole life enforcing the rule of law, honoring the Constitution, including the constitutional rights of every single target of every grand jury investigation and every defendant I prosecuted or my prosecutors at the D.C. u.S. Attorney's office prosecuted. I've never been a political guy, but I will say that in my lived.

[Jim Acosta]

Experience.

[Glenn Kirschner]

With accountability, all things are possible without accountability. You get Donald fucking Trump, and that is where we are. And what we see the Trump administration doing right now is they're trying to walk the rule of law into the woods and shoot it dead. But they're not going to succeed. First and foremost, the federal judges, the federal bench, particularly the federal district trial court judges and the courts of appeals judges. But the Supreme Court. I know, but listen, even the Supreme Court just pushed back, didn't it even. You know, we had three crossovers, from the insane to the sane, from the ideological to the constitutional. Three crossovers. Who said no sport? They didn't call Trump sport. But that is my dream, that someday somebody will call Donald Trump spirit sport. No sport. You can't federalize state National Guards and deploy them to the streets of America. So get them the hell out. I'm paraphrasing. So, you know, we need accountability, and we will bring accountability. What we need to do is we need more Jack Smiths in the future Department of Justice, and fewer Merrick Garlands. And with that, if we have ruthless patriots, as our friend Harry Dunn coined that phrase earlier this week, you know, we are going to. We're going to hold them accountable. We're going to bring charges. Win, lose or draw. They're going to be based on the facts and the law. They're going to be righteous, and there's no shame in losing A righteous case. But there's nothing but shame in refusing to take a righteous case to trial for fear of losing it. So accountability is coming. Don't despair.

[Jim Acosta]

And absolutely. And Olivia, we've also talked about what could come next. What worries you about what could come next. You've been inside, you know, these players. You've been around. Stephen Miller, I hate to say it, but, you know, way to sell me out. Sorry about that, but you were rightly concerned from the get go, as I'm.

[Olivia Troye]

Still recovering from today. I think what worries me is that this machine is exhaustive and it's relentless. And I think what worries me is that authoritarianism thrives on fatigue. It thrives on that. And that is why I think that it's so important that all of you here in this room and all of you watching right now who are taking the time to stream this, or we'll stream this later, that is why it's important that you keep showing up, no matter how tired you are, no matter how chaotic it is, no matter. I'm telling you, they want you to give up. They want you to get tired and they're not going to stop because they're not taking breaks. I'm telling you that right now. I've watched this machine inside. It's one thing after another, whether there's a strategy or not. And we're seeing it. We're seeing it play out. And I come from national security security. We're seeing it in foreign policy. We're seeing in what they're doing it. We're seeing what happens with Venezuela right now, which I'm very, very worried about for the people there. And I think that is the one thing that worries me, which is why I think it's important to have moments like this to build resilience and just remind people. And here's the thing, life advice. Pick one lane to care about. You don't have to do it all, because that's also exhausting. But I would say pick one thing in your community that you care about. Pick whether it's librarians or teachers or schools or they're getting attacked or losing funding or whatever it is that you care about. Stand with each other and show up for it and be consistent about it. That is one way to beat back on extremism and authoritarianism is what I would say.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah. And Miles, that's a great message. Authoritarian thrives on fatigue. I'm going to be thinking about that one on the way home, too. And Miles, I mean, we all know now that Trump went After you. I mean, it's hard to. I mean, it's hard to remember everything that's happened in the last year, because so much has happened in the last year. But one of the things that he did pretty early on was come after you personally. What's that been like for you?

[Miles Taylor]

Yeah, I mean, like, look, I always caveat my answer to this by saying I'm not looking for anyone's sympathy, but I think it's very important to go out and give people the real insight so you understand what's happening. I'm not some talking head. I mean, right now, I am a talking head with a hat on, but I'm a person with a family who was planning to be done with politics forever. I never wanted to be in politics. I mean, when Olivia and I sat on the Potomac river and talked about coming forward together in 2020, both of us were like, we don't want to be in politics. We're national security people. But this is the most dangerous thing either of us had ever seen in our lifetimes. And we're students of history, one of the most dangerous things we'd ever seen happen in our democracy. So we had to enter the political realm. But I thought I was done with that, had a daughter, grew a family, left this sphere. But then Donald Trump came for me in April, and in short, that was devastating to our lives. We had started a business where 50 people were dependent on paychecks from me. Donald Trump, you don't have to have sympathy for me losing my livelihood. But those 50 families lost their livelihood because he came after me. That business imploded. Our physical security got worse. We had very real threats. We're still in court today against people who've made violent threats against us because Donald Trump declared me guilty of treason. Now, you may ask yourself if the president of the United States, the leader of the free world, said, the guy sitting in front of you is guilty of a crime tantamount to murder in the United States, it's punishable by death. Why am I sitting in front of you? How is it that I'm not in handcuffs in a jail? I think the answer is obvious because it was a clear lie. It was very clear to anyone with half a frontal lobe that Donald Trump did this because I criticized him. But he set a precedent there. Up till that point, in 249 years of American history, no American president had ever issued a written executive order against a named critic for First Amendment protected speech. It would never happen. And I know, in part because of one of my Extraordinary Lawyers is here in the audience today. I don't know if he wants to be called out or not, but he's an example of someone in that time period after that executive order dropped who I looked to to decide what to do next. Because I will tell you, and many of us felt this way a year ago. It was not an obvious decision to fight back even after that. In fact, I will tell you, the majority of people in my life, like friends, family members, the people you're close to, said, please don't do anything else. They were scared. They were scared that I would get picked up and put in jail. They were scared that this administration would go after them. The fear was extraordinary a year ago. The fear was extraordinary in April. But there were people in my universe who didn't defect from us, who said, no, you fight back against things like that. That lawyer I mentioned is someone who just recently won a case against Donald Trump. If you'd applaud Mark Zaid for his courage.

[Jim Acosta]

There you go. We all know Mark Zayd. Thank you. Mark.

[Olivia Troye]

Be transparent. He's my lawyer, too.

[Jim Acosta]

Who else? Yeah, who else here is a client of Mark Zayden? I'm just kidding.

[Miles Taylor]

Well, and I will tell you this, Jim.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah.

[Miles Taylor]

Mark is not a partisan guy. Mark has represented it, represented MAGA folks and liberals, and you name it, he is a damn good lawyer, one of the best lawyers in the country. And he was targeted by this White House, had his security clearance stripped. And like a lot of people who had their security clearances stripped, Mark could have taken the choice not to punch back. A lot of people didn't because they were worried about the impact on their businesses, the further impact on their families. A lot of people, just like the law firms you saw, not fight back. The individuals did the same. Mark Zaid did the opposite. And that was instructive to me because every time someone defies this man, they make it that much easier for the next person to defy. And I think that's the big, big takeaway from this year.

[Jim Acosta]

That's right. And, Tara, I mean, you were telling me before this event that, you know, your passion for the law enforcement community runs deep. It means something to you and to me, that's a big part of what this day should be about. Backing the blue. Really, truly backing the blue. Not paying lip service to it, but really and truly backing the blue. And I mean, I'll just add this aside. I mean, Donald Trump over the weekend was saying, oh, I don't mind putting ground troops in Venezuela. You know, that's what he said about our armed forces. And so we know that he views people in law enforcement as disposable, too. But your thoughts to pick up on what Miles was saying, too, how important it is to stand firm, not, not bend the knee.

[Tara Setmayer]

You know, it is such an honor and privilege to be a part of the democracy defenders in this room, the heroes that defended the Capitol five years ago today. You know, I worked on Capitol Hill as a senior staffer. I was a comms director up there for seven years and watched that day in absolute horror and sorrow for what was taking place and the fact that there were people who swore an oath, both as elected officials and as law enforcement officers, to protect and serve and swore an oath to the Constitution that was supposed to include protecting everyone. And that there were so many people that were disrespectful and abdicated that oath of office for a man and for a cult of personality that hates everything about what makes America great. There's nothing great about what Donald Trump stands for or what he purports to stand for, who he represents. It is so anathema to what all of us who recognize what that Constitution means and what that oath of office means. He is. He despises all of it. And I grew up in a law enforcement family. My grandfather was a police captain of my hometown Police Department, Paramus, New Jersey. He served for 40 years. He was a World War II veteran. He marched in every Fourth of July parade from 1947 until 2016, where he was literally wheeled in a wheelchair at 90 years old by the officers and that police department. And he was also a volunteer fireman. And so if anyone who knows, there's always a rivalry. And every other year, he would march with either the firemen or the police department, and they'd all give him shit for it. But he was. But they wheeled him down that parade route because it was so important to him to never miss a Fourth of July parade because he served this country. And that's what I came from blue collar America with family members who served. I married a federal officer who has served 25 years, who is here today as well, who still serves. And there was no way that I was going to sit back and live in fear over what Donald Trump or MAGA or anyone else was going to do to stop me or silence me or silence the work that we all do because of them. This is our country. They don't own patriotism. They don't get to define who's an American and who's a patriot. They don't get to do that. They're traitorous bastards that had an insurrection happen in this capitol here, and they're the ones that are going to tell us that we're.

[Heather Cox Richardson]

We're not American. No.

[Tara Setmayer]

So it's so important that we are moral first responders. That's what we need to be. We don't have time to be bystanders because democracy doesn't defend itself. And the more people that we have that step up in as moral first responders and say no and yell stop athwart history, the more opportunity we will have to take this back. But Heather Cox Richardson made a huge point here earlier today about that. It's going to take a lot of work, but we can do it. There are more of us than there are of them, and we have to remind ourselves of that.

[Jim Acosta]

That's such a good.

[Tara Setmayer]

Starts with the people here in this room today and all the work that everyone here is doing, including you, Jim, and all the work and the courage, the moral courage to stand, step up and say enough.

[Jim Acosta]

That's such a good point. Because, you know, Heather, I'm going to get up again. Harry was talking, saying I was like Jerry Springer, which. That's an insult. I'm just gonna. I'm not. I'm not happy about that. But I am going to do a little bit of like a Jerry Springer thing here. Do you to want me.

[Olivia Troye]

Me to pull Miles's hair?

[Jim Acosta]

We could. We could. Yeah, please. And. And Tara hit Miles with a chair. No, I'm just kidding. Don't do any of that.

[Miles Taylor]

Worse.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah. Independent media. Anything goes. You know what I mean? Like, anything goes. So we've reached the part of the program where, you know. And I feel a little bit like Ted Koppel here. Remember on the days of Nightline when he would say, I'm informing the affiliates that we may be running. I'm informing the affiliates we may be running over tonight. We might not stop at our normal time, so hopefully the national press club won't stick me with too big of a bill. But I do want to see if we can get some questions from the audience. Does anybody have a question? And not a speech, but a question, as John McCain used to say, Questions, comments, insults? No, but a question. Yes, ma', am. You write. That'd be. Hold on a second. Let's get a mic to you and then we'll take it from there. I guess I can sit back down.

[Olivia Troye]

Thank you.

[Heather Cox Richardson]

Thank you all so very much. I do have a question. Yes, we all know how devastatingly Effective the Heritage foundation has been for decades, but most recently with its Project 2025. My question is, who is drafting our Project 2028?

[Olivia Troye]

Olivia, I get that question a lot, actually. I can tell you though, people are thinking about this. I think that there is a lot of thought being put into what does that look like in the aftermath, given all of the damage that has been done to our institutions and when, I mean damage, this is going to take us years, decades maybe in some situations of things that they have done, including a lot of the shutting down of institutions around the world, they've left gaps. And so I think there are people thinking about this, but I think that you're correct to keep that front and center and be thinking forward looking and thinking like, what does it look like when we're piecing back together USAID or piecing back together Voice of America or.

[Jim Acosta]

You know, can those things come back? I mean, that's the other issue.

[Olivia Troye]

I mean, all of these other, all of these other things. But yes, this is something that we should be.

[Miles Taylor]

One thing I'll say is the answer is kind of born and bureaucratic. I mean, the way that they did this, it was not just Heritage. You know, the Trump aligned folks and some of our former friends and colleagues who decided to, decided to make a certain choice when it came to Donald Trump launched something called the America First Policy Institute. They launched another think tank where they hired people full time to do this. It's a very boring bureaucratic thing. But this administration is doing so much that there is no one group.

[Jim Acosta]

They had a head start.

[Miles Taylor]

That's right. That's tracking all of it. I mean, I was telling people privately a couple weeks ago we should launch something called the undo list. It's just like here's we just need a really good tracking. It requires people, it requires a team. Certainly it can be crowdsourced. But there is a role right now for an institution. And I'll just say I won't dime anyone out who's not ready to announce that. But a number of our colleagues, you know, and people in the space have been talking about, okay, how do we do that? Let's put some organization to that. Because it's crucial to systematize the accountability that Glenn talked about. Not just on the justice system, but everything we've seen, especially the abuses of power, the excesses, how do we hit the undo button when that day comes, we've got to be ready for it. And I think that folks are motivated by people like you saying that needs to be done to Go make it happen.

[Jim Acosta]

Anybody else have a question? There's a gentleman, this nice lady right here. Yes, ma'. Am.

[Heather Cox Richardson]

I've been to every King's Day and every demonstration, and I met young people for the first time at one from American University. So my question is, how do we give the young kids, and not all us old farts, the energy and the hope to become engaged? Because that's what these girls said. They feel hopeless. And I tried to give them a little bit of energy, but the Democratic Party has to get off its ass and get these kids involved.

[Jim Acosta]

That's right. You're right, Tara.

[Heather Cox Richardson]

Well.

[Tara Setmayer]

I went to gw, so I'll forgive those girls for going to America. I'm just kidding. Listen, it starts with the fact that you engaged them. People need to feel as though they're heard and seen, and you have to be relatable. Democrats can't approach people with a policy pen because we're in a political guerrilla warfare fight here. And when you're talking to people who just want to know, is my life going to be better or. When you hear. It pains me to see that the younger generation doesn't think that the American dream is for them. That is, it should hurt all of us. Because isn't that why we're here? It's to pass on the inheritance of our freedoms and what our ancestors fought for to the next generation so they can be better than us. So what do we do? We have to engage them, and we have to let them be heard and give them examples of courage and bravery and let them know history. Because imagine how the younger generations felt. For women, my organization, the Seneca Project, named after the City seneca Convention of 1848, where women said, to hell with this. We had enough of. Enough is enough. But it took them 72 years to get the right to vote. Yeah, 72 years. Some of them, most of them, didn't live to see it. So we have to plant the seed, though, and be consistent. They knew that if we are consistent and we're.

[Heather Cox Richardson]

Courage.

[Tara Setmayer]

Courage is courageous. And it starts with a tiny ripple of hope.

[Jim Acosta]

Right?

[Tara Setmayer]

Rfk the good one, not the crazy one.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah.

[Tara Setmayer]

He said he talks about the ripples of hope, that it starts there and then it builds into a current that can move mountains. So that's what we have to do. We have to make sure that we give the younger generations. We set the example for them. Courage is courageous. Ripples turn into currents that can move mountains, and that's our responsibility.

[Jim Acosta]

I think there's a question in the back of the audience. There's a gentleman back there. I don't know his name. Oh, it's Harry.

[Harry Dunn]

I have a real question. I do.

[Jim Acosta]

Harry.

[Harry Dunn]

Donna, here's a serious question. And we get asked a lot of questions all the time and we have to answer questions. But I have a question mainly for Glenn. January 6th, Jack Smith laid out all the evidence. What happened? Supreme Court ruled. Donald Trump's a king, blah, blah, blah. Can you please talk us through how there is a slight hope of some type of accountability with just on the legal side with the rulings dismissed with or dismissed without prejudice? With prejudice. Can you expound on that a little bit, how there is an opportunity for some type of accountability for Donald Trump?

[Glenn Kirschner]

Yeah. Thank you, Harry. And let's be clear, and this is so obvious, Donald Trump doesn't back the blue. Donald Trump backs those who beat the blue, like the four heroes that we had up on this panel panel not too long ago. And so from this old prosecutor's perspective, I look at the posture that Donald Trump's criminal cases were in before the Supreme Court in the horrific Trump versus United States presidential immunity ruling, said the president should have absolute immunity, can commit all the crimes he wants, victimize all of the American people he wants. And if it's a core constitutional function. Oh, well. Which is kind of the opposite of the constitutional obligation to take care that the laws of the nation be faithfully executed. But setting that aside, let's just look at the two cases, the criminal cases against Donald Trump in which he wasn't convicted. Like up in New York, you've got the classified documents case. Where was that case when it all went south for us? It was at the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals, about to be reversed. About to be reversed because compromised, biased Judge Aileen Cannon made a decision that no honest, ethical, unbiased judge would make. Okay, so I'm not saying, yes, those cases are absolutely going to be rebrought, but there's no final nail in the coffin of the classified documents case. Let's turn to January 6th. Where was that case when Jack Smith felt compelled to move to dismiss it in November because Trump had been reelected and the Department of Justice believes in its wisdom at the Office of Legal Counsel. I'm not going to call them a bunch of naval gazing pinheads, but I think I just did.

[Jim Acosta]

Oh, go ahead.

[Glenn Kirschner]

They're not all naval gazing pinheads, but they're like, we don't think it's a good idea to prosecute a sitting criminal president. I say, I can't imagine a better idea than to prosecute a sitting criminal president.

[Jim Acosta]

Maybe we can get another ruling that says what John Roberts says doesn't apply anymore and that no man is above the law. Can we do that in this country?

[Glenn Kirschner]

That would be nice.

[Jim Acosta]

That would be nice to believe that. Didn't used to believe that.

[Glenn Kirschner]

So here's the thing. Jack Smith felt compelled. And I understand. Listen, my hat's off to Jack Smith all day, every day. As I said, we need a Department of justice full of Jack Smiths when the rule of law comes back into the light of day. But, you know, remember where we were in that case, the J6 case against Donald Trump, when Jack Smith was compelled to move to dismiss it. Judge Tanya Chutkan was litigating the question of which of Donald Trump's January 6th crimes can go forward notwithstanding the presidential immunity ruling.

[Jim Acosta]

Why?

[Glenn Kirschner]

Because it ain't a core constitutional function of a president to send an angry mob to the Capitol to violently attack it to stop the certification of an election he lost and unlawfully keep him in power. That's not a core constitutional function. I don't even believe it's an official presidential duty. Duty that would enjoy presumptive immunity. You know what it is? It's a private effing act of a candidate. And there's no presidential immunity for a private act of a candidate. So these cases are not dead and buried. I mean, they may be on life support, and we can't guarantee that we're going to get those paddles dead like they jump back, back into life. But it ain't over. Holding Donald Trump accountable ain't over. Not by a long shot. So thank you for the question, Harry. There is hope even on that procedural legal front.

[Jim Acosta]

Very good. One last question. This gentleman in the back with the tie there. Very good. Thank you so much, Jim.

[Adam Kinzinger]

Thanks for doing this.

[Jim Acosta]

My question to Harry and the guys was going to be. Everybody has different emotions, right? I think there's a lot of grief and rage. How do you all handle those emotions? And what do you get? What gets you through the day when sometimes you wake up and say, I.

[Adam Kinzinger]

Can'T do this anymore.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah, Miles. Olivia.

[Olivia Troye]

You do. That's really it for me especially. I mean, that's my perspective on it. I think people like you, people who come up to you on the street, man, you're making me emotional. I was all solid up here, and I'm like, okay, I know the proud boys are hanging out outside. Bring it on. But I will say that. And I say that because I was thinking about this when Miles mentioned the moment on the bench. Miles and I had a long chat on a bench before I came forward. And I'll never forget that day. And I say you do, because I think in being in government for so long, I think what I observed and saw was that you kind of. You kind of assume that courage belongs to someone else. You keep waiting for someone else to take a stand. You keep looking around and someone else is going to have the courage to take a stand against it. Someone else is going to do it, and you pass the buck. And at some point you realize, no, you can't do that. You can't outsource courage. You have to hold it from within. And so I say that to you and I say it's you all that keeps us going, because I think it's a reminder that you all are out there individually and that you're making a difference in your own way. And so why would I say. When I think about younger people, when I think about the youth and inspiring them, remind them that they can make a difference. And courage, it doesn't have to be. You don't have to be a famous person, national figure, to make a difference. Courage is really about taking a stand, doing what's right over what's wrong. So speaking up for truth, standing by people who tell the truth, like people here on stage, standing by people like Jim Acosta, who took a stand and became an independent journalist in independent media and is providing a platform and encouraging others to continue on that road. That is courage. And, you know, I think about these knitters. I'm going to give you this example because I am so fascinated by this group of women, these people coming together. They call themselves the weapons of mass construction. They're crafters and they're knitters, and they show up and they craft. And, you know, she took one person, brought her friends. They show up at ICE facilities, they show up at different locations and they craft and they knit things and they do things. That is courage. And they're making a difference and they're raising funds. There's people that started food banks and food deliveries when the government was shut down and SNAP benefits were gutted. They started, you know, making meals and passing around. They started driving that. So, you know, sometimes courage is not a huge stance of defiance. Sometimes it's like making a casserole and showing up.

[Jim Acosta]

It's true.

[Olivia Troye]

So I think when I think of that, that's what keeps me going, is you all. And we lean on each other. And what keeps me going is the people on this Stage, we lean on each other, we check on each other. I care a lot about the people on the stage, and we've been through a lot, and it's very, very, very hard to face these dynamics. But on the other hand, I know that there are people quietly making a difference, and they may not be loud about it. And that's what we've learned in the past year, that quietly, there are people that are going to stand together and keep showing up.

[Harry Dunn]

That's right.

[Jim Acosta]

Miles, what keeps you going? Miles? I think this is an important. Thank you for asking that question, Miles.

[Miles Taylor]

At the risk of sounding unoriginal.

[Jim Acosta]

That's okay.

[Miles Taylor]

What Olivia said.

[Jim Acosta]

Also, that little baby of yours, too.

[Miles Taylor]

That's right. Very much so. But that was also, in some ways, a reason not to do this.

[Jim Acosta]

I know.

[Miles Taylor]

Because the environment is so scary. You mentioned that quote from MLK that the arc of the moral universe bends towards justice. Barack Obama used to use that quote all the time. And I would get annoyed because I wanted him to add a caveat, which is that there's not inevitability to it. The moral universe is not bending itself. There's false hope in thinking, oh, well, it's all going to turn out right in the end. No, not unless you do something about it. And what's been so inspiring to me, genuinely, is, a year ago, I did not expect that this moment would feel the way it does. The resistance, the defiance in this country has grown beyond what I think a lot of us thought possible in those first few months, where even the courageous people some of us are friends with, who'd been out there on the campaign trail texted us and said, I'm gonna lay low for a few months.

[Olivia Troye]

That hurt.

[Miles Taylor]

That hurt. There's still a lot of those people. And look, I'm not pointing the finger at them. This is hard. But for every person like you all showing up today, that kept. That started showing up, that reached out, that made a big difference. I will tell you, as we were deciding what to do as a family, I got this stack of postcards. Someone organized this writing of postcards. And this may sound like one of those fake stories. Oh, yeah. You were motivated by the postcards to fight back. I was motivated by the postcards to fight back. All of these people around the country I had never met said, do it. We're with you. We're behind you. We were scared that we were going to have to sell the house to pay for legal fees. We didn't know what was going to happen. And then friends that I've never met around this country, crowdsourced our legal defense. And in addition to Mark, I've got the best lawyers in America to fight back against this guy. That took courage for those people. That made a difference. That keeps me going. And I'll tell you what I mean to Glenn's point about accountability, this is still statistically the most lawless administration in modern history. Dozens of judges have ruled Trump violated the Constitution. Hundreds have ruled in cases that they broke the law otherwise. And in response to that, I think we have a very easy answer as an opposition of what our platform is. It's not a new platform. It's an old platform. It's the United States Constitution. That is our unifying platform across Democrats and Republicans and. And independence. And we have to recommit to it this year in the 250th year and say, this is our agenda against this guy.

[Jim Acosta]

Hear, hear. Hear, hear. Tara, what keeps you going?

[Tara Setmayer]

I'll be very, very brief. It is true that when you put yourself out there, it is the fuel is we, the people, the collective we. And knowing that it is a privilege to be looked upon as someone that people are inspired by and ask how, what can we do? That is a humbling privilege that I don't take for granted at all. I don't think any of us do. And so when it gets tough, you think about that person that stopped you on the street or that comes up to you, like the hugs that I got today when I walked in the room, that's what keeps you going. When I look at Harry and the bravery of Harry and Mike and Daniel Aquilino and everything that that's costing them, and they are still here, they still show up. That keeps me going. So it is important to understand that community keeps you going. That's why we often talk about that. It's why we build it. I have a bracelet right now on my arm that says, you were made to make a difference. And I remind everybody that we were all made to make a difference in our own respective ways. So when times get tough, you go back to that and you think about the people before us and what they went through. You think about. I think about my grandfather. I think about my great grandparents that came over from Germany as German Jews in the 20s and said, we're all, no, no, we're out of here, and came to the US to build a life. You just think about those things, and that keeps you going. And in a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. Orwell said that Allegedly. But it's. We're all part of that revolution, so that's what keeps us going. And great wine.

[Jim Acosta]

There you go.

[Miles Taylor]

Hey, Jim, can I just say one more quick thing on that point? Because it should have been way more obvious to me. Me is there was a turning point for me that I have shared with a lot of folks since I'm wearing the word on my hat. There was a literal day where my wife said the word defiance, and I swear to God, it was just the word. It was like everything clicked. We had been in this defensive crouch. People who'd been in our wedding, family members, were literally abandoning us. We're saying, we cannot associate. We're so scared. And then Hannah started talking about, you know, I think we need to shift from a defensive policy posture to a defiant posture. It was like magic came over me. I was like, you're right. We should be fighting back. And we launched this thing, defiance.org because we were like, how do we give that to more people? How do we shift into a posture of absorbing all of this devastating news to every week, let's do something about it that has changed our lives. This is not the fight I want to be in. I know it's not the fight these folks want to be in right now. But when you make that mental switch from defensiveness to defiance, and I know you've made it, Jim, it is an unlock, and that's been the fuel for us as a family at least.

[Jim Acosta]

And you're doing great [e-mail] make sure you check out Miles organization. And, Glenn, a final thought from you.

[Glenn Kirschner]

Yeah. So two things. One keeps me grounded, and one keeps me motivated. I have Two favorite quotes. One, MLK's. The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice. I hold fast to that. Sometimes there's a kink in the ark, and we have to try to straighten it out, and that's what we're here doing. But my second keeps me grounded, and that is Abraham Lincoln's. Be sure to plant your feet in the right place, then stand firm.

[Tara Setmayer]

Yes, that's right.

[Glenn Kirschner]

That keeps me. That keeps me grounded when I feel like I'm knocked off center by the latest horror and abuse use by the Trump administration. And the thing that motivates me is I wake up every morning, I survey the news, and I, you know, see what the latest horrific conduct of Donald Trump is. And I think to myself, trump and his flunkies and lap dogs and sycophants want us depressed. They want us despondent. They want us to desperate. And they, they want us to be defeated. And I'm not going to give them that fucking satisfaction.

[Jim Acosta]

Amen, brother.

[Glenn Kirschner]

And I swear when I say that to myself like a mantra, you know what I'm thankful for? No. I'm going to fucking fight this regime with everything I've got until the day I die. And that motivates me. It really motivates me.

[Jim Acosta]

Amen to that. You motivate me, Glenn. So thank you very much for those words and thanks to all of you for a great discussion. Guys, let's give these guys a round of applause. Tareset Mayer. Miles Taylor. Olivia Troy. Glenn Kirscher. And I'll just say one final thing in terms of what keeps me going. It goes a little bit back to what Olivia was saying. And that is all of you. I can't tell you what this last year has been like for me. It was almost one year ago when I said goodbye to my old career, my old place, and I talked about how it is never a good time to bow down to a tyrant. And one of the things that we noticed about the year of our Lord 2025 is there was a lot of bending the knee going on. Universities, law firms, not Mark Zayd's law firm, but law firms, networks. When 60 Minutes is in trouble, we're all in trouble, as I like to say, politicians from both sides of the aisle. And I think 2026, the 250th anniversary of our republic, should be the year that we stand tall. And you want to know what keeps me going? And it goes back to what Glenn said. I firmly believe, and I'm saying this as a newsman to whoever's watching that make no mistake, Donald Trump does pose a danger to our democracy, full stop. But Donald Trump needs to understand something else about what's going to take place in this year of our Lord 2026. We the people are not backing down. We the people are going to stand tall. And as I said in my parting words when I left my old place a year ago, don't give in to the lies. Don't give into fear. Hold on to the truth and hope. And I want to thank more than anybody else here tonight, the four officers who were up on this stage. One more round of applause, Michael Fanon, Harry Dunn. Harry, you're still here. Stand up, buddy. Come back up here. Come back up here. Akalina Ganel. I don't know if Hodges and Fanon are still here. Come back up here. This day is about these men right here, these brothers right here. As I said, for the folks who are just tuning in towards the end of this show, a real president of the United States would have accepted his defeat back in 2020 and would have not interrupted the peaceful transfer of power. And a real president would honor these heroes. So we're going to do. We the people, are going to honor these heroes here tonight, and we're going to continue to do that heading into the future. So thank you, all of you, for joining us here tonight. Thanks to the National Press Club, thanks to C span2, thanks to YouTube, thanks to substack. Thanks to all of you for watching. Have a good night. Still reporting from Washington, I'm Jim Acosta. Have a good night.