← The Jim Acosta Show
The Jim Acosta Show
Rep. Brendan Boyle, D-PA plus an exclusive with Voice of America Journalist Steve Herman and Elise Labott
01:13:52
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- [00:00]
Jim Acosta
I think we are live now, but I'll read a little bit of what happened. Welcome to the Jim Acosta Show. It's Tuesday, March 18th. There's Congressman Brendan Boyle, Democrat of Pennsylvania. Really appreciate him coming on today. A little bit later on in the program, I'll have foreign policy expert Elise labet. She'll join me to talk about some of the stuff happening in the foreign policy realm. But Congressman Boyle, I'm one of the reasons why I wanted to reach out and speak with you. Thanks for coming on, by the way. You've been having some town halls, it looks like. I definitely want to talk about that. And I also want to talk about some of this foreign policy. Breaking news, this breaking news on the Ukraine war, Russia's war on Ukraine. The New York Times is reporting that Putin has agreed on Tuesday. That's today, of course, during a phone call with Trump to halt strikes on Ukrainian energy infrastructure. This is according to a Kremlin statement, which of course, you always have to take with a grain of salt. The White House is essentially saying similar things. What they're saying in the New York Times is that this result seems to fall short of what Trump had been hoping for in his outreach to Moscow. This is according to the New York Times, after several days of optimistic sounding pronouncements. So it sounds as though, and NBC is also reporting that Trump and Putin have agreed that the process to reach a peace agreement between Russia and Ukraine would begin with any energy infrastructure ceasefire. It doesn't sound like Zelensky has even gotten on board with this. And I know you've been following this from where you sit in the House of Representatives, Congressman. It sounds as though, you know, Trump came into office saying, I'm going to have a peace in Ukraine on day one, and so on. And it sounds as though based on the readouts from this phone call between Trump and Putin, it's not as easy as it sounds. Which shocker, that is what we all expected to be the case.
- [01:54]
Congressman Brendan Boyle
Yeah. So first, Jim, it's, it's great to join you on this new platform.
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Jim Acosta
Yeah. Thank you.
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Congressman Brendan Boyle
And this is my first time doing Substack video. I, I feel now, you know, it's usually I, I'm showing some of my older colleagues some things about technology.
- [02:08]
Jim Acosta
There you go.
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Congressman Brendan Boyle
I know. And what it's like when the shoe is on the other foot.
- [02:12]
Jim Acosta
Absolutely.
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Congressman Brendan Boyle
So I, I love substack for reading a bunch of columnists who, who I follow and interesting people. So anyway, thanks for.
- [02:21]
Jim Acosta
Well, and we should, we should mention, we should make this clear. This is your first substack.
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Congressman Brendan Boyle
Yeah, no, that's what I was saying.
- [02:26]
Elise Labott
Yeah.
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Jim Acosta
Yeah. This is your very first one.
- [02:29]
Congressman Brendan Boyle
So, like I said, I think probably, like a lot of people still, I knew Substack is a great way to follow some columnists and writers who I find interesting and a follow through the years. So I've been a Substack user, but I did. I was not aware of the video component to this, so.
- [02:46]
Jim Acosta
No, there's no question. No, that. And let's talk about that for a second, because when I moved into this platform, I didn't know that either. I was. I was under the impression that Substack was a great place to go to read, you know, pieces from people like Paul Krugman and Timothy Snyder and folks that really care about democracy and so on. And the folks at Substack said no. Well, you know, we do this live podcasting thing, too. They do. You could do tape podcasts as well. But what makes the live function fun is that we can kind of do it almost like a newscast where I'm live, you're live, we're live now. And the viewers, the folks who are chiming in, they're my subscribers, and they can give us sort of instant feedback on what they're thinking. And so sometimes I jump right into it and start doing the news, which is what I did on Russia. But, I mean, this is a very cool platform. I'm glad you're doing this. I've had the same experience with a number of other members, and I think it's a. It's a great way to sort of reach a different audience.
- [03:44]
Congressman Brendan Boyle
Yeah, I. You know, I'm glad we're starting off of this because I think this is actually relevant to the conversation.
- [03:50]
Jim Acosta
Yeah.
- [03:50]
Congressman Brendan Boyle
That Congressional Democrats writ large are literally having right now. I've always. I mean, I assume we're about the same age, and so we grew up in the media environment of three major networks. I'm a teenager when. Forget Fox News, when Fox is created with the Tracy Almond show And then cable TV in the 90s is. That starts to take. Start to take.
- [04:14]
Jim Acosta
That's right.
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Congressman Brendan Boyle
Root. And really become a big thing in the 247 news cycle with the Internet happening at the same time. And then we move into. Maybe two decades ago, I had a MySpace page. I did, too. My wife and I both, you know, early on Facebook. What's interesting to me is that we're in this moment where it seems like there has been more change the last four, five, seven years than literally the Change between when my parents were growing up in the 50s to when you and I were growing up in, in the 80s. I mean. And part of what I think, you know, candidly, I think the, the last presidential campaign on the Democratic side, first the Biden campaign and then Kamala Harris, but also congressional Democrats as well, have been grappling with, is how to reach people who have completely checked out from what has always been referred to as mainstream media. So I'm going to be doing more of substack. I do a lot of podcasts already and for all of these things, it's always changing. You just have to stay on top of it. And the final, the final point I'll say on this is I had a great opportunity about four weeks before the election in Philadelphia, so the biggest city of the biggest battleground state with, you know, hundreds of millions of dollars being spent by both campaigns. I had an opportunity to be on the other side of a one way window and sit in on a focus group of undecided, non college educated young males.
- [05:53]
Jim Acosta
That's right.
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Congressman Brendan Boyle
And the moderator, one of the first questions was, you know, where do you get your information? And they went through a moderator, went through a list.
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Jim Acosta
Yeah.
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Congressman Brendan Boyle
Do you watch broadcast news? No. None of them raised their hands. Do you watch cable news? No. None of them raised their hand. Newspaper? No. It was exactly. Through things like this.
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Jim Acosta
Yeah.
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Congressman Brendan Boyle
While they didn't say substack specifically, tick tock, YouTube, YouTube, pre roll text chains.
- [06:19]
Jim Acosta
That's right.
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Congressman Brendan Boyle
Other social media platforms. And it was eye opening to me as someone who's just a little bit older than the folks who were in the room. It was like, whoa. I mean, this thing has really changed in a very short period of time.
- [06:37]
Jim Acosta
Yeah. And let's. We'll set aside the Russia Putin stuff because I like where you're going with this. You know, it's interesting that you mentioned this because during the campaign, you brought up the campaign, I remember Donald Trump was doing these podcasts almost every day and they would have a list of them that he would do every day. And Kamala Harris, it seemed that campaign. And I don't want to throw any fresh produce or anything in their direction, but they did not seem to be on that bandwagon or sort of on that train quite as much as perhaps they should have been. And maybe it was, at the end of the day, a vulnerability. And I've heard from a number of your colleagues who have said, no, no, Jim, thanks for inviting me on. I want to get on these kinds of platforms because people have just moved to looking at stuff on their phone, listening to podcasts, watching stuff on YouTube, TV. I mean, and of course, substack. Now entering this realm, the possibilities are kind of endless.
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Congressman Brendan Boyle
Yeah. I can tell you that lesson has really been internalized by House Democrats because at the State of the Union, what, just a couple weeks ago.
- [07:43]
Jim Acosta
Yeah.
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Congressman Brendan Boyle
For the first time ever, Democratic leadership and the Democratic caucus set up an entire room for social media outlets.
- [07:53]
Steve Herman
Oh, interesting.
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Congressman Brendan Boyle
And influencers had about 30 or 40 literally there in, you know, the room. Minority gets a room in the Capitol. And instead of the traditional press conference stuff, it was a bunch of members like me going to outlet after outlet, which by outlet it was literally one person with a phone.
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Jim Acosta
Yeah, I need to get in there next time.
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Congressman Brendan Boyle
So next time you will be invited. I don't think you would set this up.
- [08:22]
Jim Acosta
It was just getting off the ground. I've been building the plane mid flight is basically what it is. And to some extent, that's sort of what Democrats are doing right now in this era of being in the minority in the House, being in this minority in the Senate. And I know you did a town hall recently. I'll get to Russia in a second. I brought it up and I'll get to it. But you did a town hall with the AI AFL CIO was last night. Last night, yeah.
- [08:47]
Congressman Brendan Boyle
A colleague of mine, Mary Gay Scanlon, is a wonderful colleague, represents part of Philadelphia and then a bulk of the suburbs. So she and I, along with the Philadelphia AFL cio and we spoke in front of about, I don't know, 75, 80 or so folks who are, you know, hardworking union members, mostly in blue collar jobs, some in government jobs, some in the private sector. And, you know, people are angry, they're scared. A few of the people in the room had already been laid off with no notice at all. One woman, toward the end, actually, she was the. The last person in the microphone line. And she told a heartbreaking story. TSA worker had been there since 2002, so really just kind of the beginning of the post 911 security effort. And she was telling this as tears were streaming down her face, that just a couple weeks ago while she's at work, got an email at 8:58am informing her that was her final day. And then got a knock on the door 20 minutes later telling her she's out.
- [10:04]
Jim Acosta
Wow.
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Congressman Brendan Boyle
This was someone who had served and always gotten positive reviews for more than two decades. So, you know, that was the tenor of the room. There is palpable, both anger and fear.
- [10:17]
Jim Acosta
Yeah. And people are just mad right now and they don't know where to turn. And they sort of feel powerless at this point because Elon Musk and Donald Trump just seem to be doing whatever the hell they want. And I do want to circle back to Russia because it sounds as though what Trump has decided to do is say, well, well, you know, Zelensky, you're part of this peace process. You're not really like the biggest part of this. I'm going to work this out with my buddy Vladimir Putin here. And I just don't see how that's going to work for the Ukrainians. I just don't see how that's going to work for Zelensky. And it sounds like he tried to do this phone call today where he tried to again, broker it on the quick, broker it on the cheap, and it just doesn't work that way.
- [10:57]
Congressman Brendan Boyle
No, of course not. I mean, I have been, I think we previously talked about the fact that I'm part of the US Delegation to the NATO parliament and have been working on these issues for a number of years now. In the three years and one month since the wide scale invasion has gone on, it has really been a magical moment for the transatlantic alliance and NATO. In some ways, the 2022-2024 period was perhaps the greatest moment in NATO's history. But ever since the election and inauguration of Donald Trump, we now have more internal discord than ever. I mean, we literally have, on the night he was elected, the incoming German chancellor, talking about how the United States is no longer an ally and that Germany, Britain and France needed to lead a European only effort because they can no longer count on the United States. A few days later, that's followed by the United States voting at the UN against the resolution condemning the Russian invasion of Ukraine. We voted alongside Russia, North Korea and a few other rogue states, voting against every single one of our traditional democratic allies. Now imagine, imagine my saying that sentence just a few years ago. I mean, you would have asked me to have my head exam. I mean, exactly. Yeah, impossible. So that's the situation we're in. You know, if, if Russia stops fighting tomorrow, the war will end. If Ukraine stops fighting tomorrow, Ukraine will end. So, you know, it's, it's a very bleak moment. And, and I can tell you a lot of our friends in Europe who have been counting on us and have been allies for the last eight decades are extremely, extremely scared at this moment.
- [12:47]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, I mean, we saw there was a French lawmaker in the last 24 hours who has said, please give us back the Statue of Liberty. I mean, you just don't normally hear US Allies talking about the United States in this fashion. And this headline jumped out to me in the Washington Post today. The Trump administration has terminated a U. S. Funded initiative that documents alleged Russian war crimes, including a sensitive database detailing the mass deportation of Ukrainian children to Russia. This is according to US Familiars, familiar with the directive and documents obtained by the Washington Post. And Congressman, I mean, this is about, you don't have to speak to that directly, but this is really about the moral leadership of the United States on the world stage. I mean, I just can't imagine any administration, Republican or Democrat, pulling the plug on that kind of an initiative, trying to get a hold on where these, these children who were abducted, these Ukrainian children were abducted by the Russians, where they went off to. I just, why would, why would they do something like that? I guess because it's what Putin wants.
- [13:55]
Congressman Brendan Boyle
Yeah, it's just, it was so I, I, when I learned about that.
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Jim Acosta
Yeah.
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Congressman Brendan Boyle
Yesterday, or maybe it was the night before, I commented on it on, on X and maybe on my blue sky as well, but just out. Sickening it is. I mean, there have been a number of sickening things that have happened in atrocities over the last several years. The, the stealing of tens of thousands of children, kidnapping them and bringing them to Russia is one of the most sickening. And so, you know, the reality is, as, again, as the incoming German chancellor was talking about, he's certainly not the only one.
- [14:36]
Jim Acosta
Yeah.
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Congressman Brendan Boyle
We are either aligned with Russia right now for the first time ever. Right. Since, since Obviously World War II when the Soviet Union was for a brief moment, an ally. But you know, from the beginning of the Cold War on the whole modern world, that the United States led the building of, yes. These institutions, NATO, UN World bank, imf, all predicated on the US Leading the world, leading the transatlantic alliance. And it's part of the reason why after centuries and centuries of warfare in Europe, that the latter half of the 20th century and the last couple decades until 2022 have been the most peaceful in history of Europe. So it is, it is sickening. One other point I just want to make.
- [15:26]
Jim Acosta
Yeah.
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Congressman Brendan Boyle
I know that a lot of people wonder why do you study history? And no, history doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme. If Donald Trump actually knew the history of the 20th century or any bit of history about this country, he would understand the lessons learned coming out of 1945 that the United States needed to be an active participant in European affairs.
- [15:53]
Jim Acosta
That's right.
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Congressman Brendan Boyle
Otherwise we see tens of millions of Americans fighting on European soil. Has happened twice in the first half of the 20th century.
- [16:01]
Jim Acosta
No, you're absolutely right. And I mean, one of the reasons why Europe has broadly been at peace since the end of the world, World War II, is, is because of the, the involvement of NATO, because of the strength of the NATO alliance. And, and so I, Congressman, I don't want to jump around too many places, but I did want to also ask you about this collision course that Trump seems to be on with, with the courts. I'm sure you've been following this as well. And apparently the Justice Department today refused to answer a number of questions from a federal judge who had demanded more information on deportations that were carried out under that rarely used wartime act. This is according to NBC. And the Justice Department basically said to the court, the government maintains that there's no justification to order the provision of additional information, that doing so would be inappropriate. So they seem to be thumbing their nose at all of this. I know apparently Trump has said that the judge handling all of this should be impeached. And the chief justice, John Roberts, has come out and he's weighed in and put out a statement saying that that's not an appropriate response. You don't impeach judges because they try to stop what you're doing. But what do you make of this collision course that Trump has put himself on with the courts? Is he trying to play chicken with the courts, dare them to do something, and then we all get thrust into this what if scenario of what happens?
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Congressman Brendan Boyle
So this speaks to, you know, many, many fears about Donald Trump in this administration. But this is now speaking to actually my single biggest fear, and I'm not the first to raise it. You just alluded to it.
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Jim Acosta
Yeah.
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Congressman Brendan Boyle
What happens if, for the first time in American history, a president of the United States says to the courts, including up to the Supreme Court, okay, go enforce your decision. I have a military. What military do you have?
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Jim Acosta
Right.
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Congressman Brendan Boyle
Then what do we do? And I have to say I have asked a lot of legal experts privately over the last couple, although I'm talking about it publicly now, I've been in a lot of conversations the last couple months. I have to say I've yet to hear a good answer.
- [18:10]
Jim Acosta
Nobody knows.
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Congressman Brendan Boyle
I mean, it is completely, and I know we've used the term unprecedented a lot in the last eight years. This would be a completely unprecedented and dangerous moment if it were to happen. He didn't go that far the first time he was president for the first term.
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Jim Acosta
Right.
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Congressman Brendan Boyle
But part of, you know, what I was saying until I was blue in the face last year when I was campaigning of why I thought Donald Trump would be much more dangerous this time is because all of those guardrails that he thought he had around him or maybe did have around him, the first term would be gone for a second term. And the kind of people who are around him now, he doesn't have a Mattis or a Kelly.
- [18:56]
Jim Acosta
No.
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Congressman Brendan Boyle
Or those kind of traditional institutional folks. Yeah. There are people like who he put as head of the FBI and the number two guy at the FBI and they're those kind of sycophantic ultra maga characters who are just egging on this to happen. So it. Yeah, I wish I had a better answer, but right now I have to tell you, I'm not sure anyone does to this specific danger.
- [19:24]
Jim Acosta
Yeah. And I was, you know, my old show, I was, I was warning folks right before the election, you know, I had folks like Timothy Snyder on and Applebaum and said, you know, when he's out there talking about the enemy from within, you know, when he's talking about I am your retribution, you know, for as much as he lies and is dishonest, he is sometimes very candid about what he wants to do. And I think he's been very candid about wanting to be, as you said, a dictator on day one and maybe day two and day three. And that's essentially what we're on the path to all witnessing together. And it is terrifying. And it makes me want to loop back to the conversation you and I were having at the beginning of all of this. Congressman, when you have town halls with folks at like the AFL CIO along with those folks who are, those are tried and true union members, and I assume a lot of those folks voted for Donald Trump. A lot of union folks moved over to Donald Trump. What are they saying now? Are they saying, oh, well, maybe I shouldn't have voted for them or are they sticking with them?
- [20:26]
Congressman Brendan Boyle
Yeah. You know, so I live in Northeast Philly. Literally, I'm right in my home right now where I'm talking to you.
- [20:33]
Jim Acosta
Yeah.
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Congressman Brendan Boyle
In northeast Philadelphia we have a state Senate seat that entirely encompasses northeast Philly. It's very blue collar, middle class area. A lot of teachers, a lot of firefighters. My next door neighbor is actually retired firefighter, police officer right right behind me and my wife is a public school teacher, a lot of public servants and you know, as a majority white middle class, blue collar area. And I'm happy To say I won this area by double digits, by 11 points, and Donald Trump won it by almost 2 points.
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Jim Acosta
Wow.
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Congressman Brendan Boyle
And we had a Republican win for state Senate and the Democratic candidate for U.S. senate won by a couple points. So it is also a very swing kind of area as well. I am already starting to hear rumblings, like at the supermarket over the weekend and person came up to me, I don't know if this individual voted for Trump or not to be fair, but certainly fits the demographic of folks who voted in Pennsylvania nationally for Trump by a large margin and was expressing kind of bewilderment that, hey, you know, what's going on? This is supposed to be about inflation and costs and.
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Jim Acosta
Right.
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Congressman Brendan Boyle
Use some, you know, Philly language, let's just say, to express bewilderment about what the hell is going on right now.
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Jim Acosta
Something along the lines of, what the fuck is that? Basically.
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Congressman Brendan Boyle
Yeah, basically.
- [22:13]
Jim Acosta
I know.
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Congressman Brendan Boyle
Philadelphia, you know, basically, that was. You got exactly the.
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Jim Acosta
Sorry, Congressman.
- [22:20]
Congressman Brendan Boyle
No, that's okay. I'm still, you know, it's a little looser on substack.
- [22:23]
Jim Acosta
So I, I, I will say it from time to time, but, you know.
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Congressman Brendan Boyle
Yeah, you know, it's not like I am alien to you. I mean, I'm a Philly sports fan.
- [22:29]
Jim Acosta
I know, I know, I know.
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Congressman Brendan Boyle
So we're of the same generation.
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Jim Acosta
I don't normally drop F bombs, but I knew that's where you were going.
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Congressman Brendan Boyle
So, yeah, I love it's the 12 years of parochial school that still holds me back. But, but yeah, I put kind of like, you know, what the hell's going on? And also, you know, trying, asking me questions about, trying to explain, like, you know, why they're doing this and what could happen next because it's so out of left field. From what was being talked about all throughout that very long campaign, none of this came up. Yeah, you never even heard the acronym doge. I mean, that was something which there still is no department. It's just something completely fabricated. Elon Musk and a bunch of people who aren't even government employees who are just showing up at, you know, USAID now, US Institute of Peace, Education Department, et cetera, and then all of the other sort of things like taking over the Kennedy center and stuff like that is not at all why Trump ended up winning both Pennsylvania and nationally by only one and a half percent. It has nothing to do with why he was elected.
- [23:37]
Jim Acosta
So he hoodwinked them. What happened? I mean, what's your sense of it? It was a bait and switch. It was a candidate on the Democratic side who just, just couldn't get the job done. I mean, have you been able to put your finger on it? I know you and I've had similar.
- [23:52]
Congressman Brendan Boyle
Conversations about this, but kind of like if you're out on a boat and you look out at the water, there's the stuff that's going on above the surface and the stuff you can't see that's going on beneath the surface.
- [24:05]
Jim Acosta
Yeah.
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Congressman Brendan Boyle
Okay, so I use that analogy and here's what I mean. Above the surface, there's no question the biggest issue was inflation. Polling data showed it. My conversations anecdotally with individuals would show it. That focus group that I referenced, that was the thing that came up the most that was going on. And it's not just the United States. It's not an accident that in almost every democracy worldwide that has had an election in the last 12 to 18 months, whoever was in power, they got shellacked.
- [24:37]
Jim Acosta
Yeah.
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Congressman Brendan Boyle
And that has been the case from Europe to Asia to the Americas. So that was going on above the surface. But then beneath the surface there are some things that are not just a 2024 issue for Democrats, but are a multi cycle issue. My party is eroding support from non college educated voters.
- [24:59]
Jim Acosta
Yeah.
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Congressman Brendan Boyle
I tried to talk about this at length. Eight years ago. My colleague from Texas, Mark Vese, and I formed something called the Blue Collar Caucus.
- [25:08]
Jim Acosta
Yep.
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Congressman Brendan Boyle
In order to, in order to address this. I would get some pushback on that. By the way that. Oh, it's just. You mean white working class. And both Mark and I would say no, we're starting to see some signs. Not as much slippage, but we're starting to see some signs. And this is us talking eight years ago we were saying we're starting to see some signs that this is not just a white working class issue. It might be larger among that segment. But why do you think it would stop there? Well, sure enough, here we are eight years later and for the first time in American history, the working class or non college educated Latino male vote went Republican, not Democratic. And among non college educated African American males, Democrats won them. No doubt about it. Yeah, but it slipped into. And we'll get the exact data in a couple months still from Catalyst, but it looks like it slipped somewhere in the low 70s where 15 years ago that would have been around 90%. So that's a pretty significant slip. That is something that we Democrats have to figure out.
- [26:20]
Jim Acosta
Absolutely. Which leads me to this question, and I don't wanna hold you up all afternoon. I'll make this the last thing and you tell me when you gotta go. But the way that I know House Democrats were pretty well united. They were united front on this continuing resolution. And a lot of you guys thought, bad idea to go along with Trump and Elon Musk on this and keep the government open. I don't know where you came down on this, so feel free to let me know and explain it. But the way Chuck Schumer decided to side with the Republicans and keep the government open just really, it just seems to me irritated the living hell out of a lot of rank and file Democrats who have just been saying, please do something, fight. Like the folks at these town halls who are saying, I can't believe I didn't vote for this. This is not what I had in mind. They're going way beyond any kind of small mandate Trump might have gotten out of the election. How did you come down on this? And what did you think about what happened over there in the Senate?
- [27:17]
Congressman Brendan Boyle
Yeah, so I, I voted against the continuing resolution and I, I felt strongly. And again, on social media, I've been pretty outspoken, especially late last week, sent some, you know, salty tweets and comments about how disappointed I am. Decision that was made by Senate Democratic leadership. Chuck Schumer has been out today and has explained it, and I understand the concerns, I do. But ultimately, what prompted me to vote the way I did was twofold. First, it was not a clean continuing resolution.
- [27:55]
Jim Acosta
Right.
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Congressman Brendan Boyle
There were a number. I mean, a clean CR is four or five pages. This was about 100, because there were a number of cuts that were already in there. So that's number one. Number two, though, and this is why I was so strongly against what ultimately played out.
- [28:12]
Jim Acosta
I thought I read that.
- [28:13]
Congressman Brendan Boyle
Yeah, if, if we folded on this, boy, just think of what September 30th is gonna look like, because now Republicans know, oh, hey, wait a minute. Democrats are so afraid of a government shutdown. We are gonna load up this next CR with all sorts of things and shove it down their throats. And so in my view, you know, you gotta stand up to a bully. If you allow them to slap you in the face, they're gonna do it again, except they're gonna do it a lot more often and harder. So I thought that, and I understand the risk, the downside, this was not a 100 to 0 issue, the way some people were making it out. But I pretty strongly came down and still continue to believe that this was a fight we needed to have now, and that by delaying it, it only enables the administration to do even more destructive things.
- [29:15]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, I mean, to me, the question becomes, you know, at what point are you going to stand for something? And it sounds as though, Congressman, you were saying this was last week. So, I mean, not to put you on the spot, but Chuck Schumer, I know he's not a member of the House, he's a member of the Senate. Do you think the Senate needs new Democratic leadership? Hate to put you on the spot. Don't kill me for asking that question.
- [29:38]
Congressman Brendan Boyle
I don't think you hate to put me on the spot. You've been a reporter forever.
- [29:42]
Jim Acosta
I'm sure you've been asked it already 10 times, so I'll be the 11th.
- [29:45]
Congressman Brendan Boyle
But, yeah, no, so I will say, and I've been involved in my career in a lot of caucus elections. The most counterproductive thing and the most unwelcome thing that ever happens is anyone from the outside of that caucus interfering or getting involved in it. I mean, I will happily answer questions about a House Democratic caucus decision, but I have too much respect for my Senate Democratic colleagues, and a number of them are good friends of mine, are even former members of the House. You now serve in the Senate. That, that's a decision for them. And I will respect whatever, whatever they choose to do. You know, I will say that I'm very happy and strong supporter of Hakeem Jeffries as House Democratic leader. I think he's going to be the next speaker. By the way, I'm very optimistic about our prospects to take back the House the next election in a year and a half from now. But I, you know, again, and it goes back to when I was a State House member. I remember pretty early on, and when I served in the State House, there was an outside Democratic constituency group that tried to get involved in that election. For one of the people running, it was the most counterproductive thing that could have happened for that candidate. It only breeds resentment. So these elections are not like. They are not like normal elections. They're very personal. It's almost like high school cliques, but with real consequences. And I am never going to get involved in an election that is not my own caucus.
- [31:16]
Jim Acosta
No, that makes sense. That makes sense. I had to ask, as we sometimes say in this business, but Congressman Brendan Boyle, great to have you on. Thanks a lot. Glad we made some substack history here having you on the program. Really appreciate it. Hope, hope we could do it again sometime real soon.
- [31:30]
Congressman Brendan Boyle
The first of, of many to come. I enjoyed it.
- [31:33]
Jim Acosta
Excellent. All right, all right. Good, good. Stuff. Thanks a lot. And thanks for bringing some Philly talk. I heard a little. I heard an S word there. Sister Teresa will have a word with you after. After class.
- [31:43]
Congressman Brendan Boyle
Oh, just kidding.
- [31:44]
Jim Acosta
All right. Good to see you. Take care. Thanks. Congress appreciate was Congressman Brendan Boyle. Really appreciate his time. And the reason why I reached out to him, I saw he was having this town hall in Philadelphia with the AFL cio, and I thought, well, we gotta hear what happened there because, you know, all of this is very interesting. Right now I'm gonna bring in Elise Lavitt because she's my foreign policy expert on the Jim Acosta Show. I just recommended Elise's excellent substack. Check it out. Obviously, whenever you have a chance to read about what's happening in the foreign policy realm. But Elise is gonna come on and join us to. About this Russia stuff. Hey, Elise, how you doing? Good to see you.
- [32:26]
Elise Labott
How you doing, Jim? Great to be with you.
- [32:27]
Jim Acosta
Good. And I. I will say this. I. I wanted to talk about the foreign policy stuff you and I wanted to talk about Voice of America. And as it turns out, a reporter, a correspondent from Voice of America is willing to come on this program with us to talk. Do you want to. Should we do this right now?
- [32:47]
Elise Labott
Whenever you're ready.
- [32:48]
Jim Acosta
I mean, and then you and I can talk about the other stuff, too. Okay, so here's the deal. And Lisa and I have been talking about this offline on our. On our texting. Obviously, we all know what's happening over at the Voice of America. It's a very important institution here in Washington. Broadcasts around the world. Right, Elise? They go into countries totalitarian. We can't hear you right now, Elise. I'm not picking your audio up right now. Let's try again.
- [33:18]
Elise Labott
Can you hear me now?
- [33:19]
Jim Acosta
I got you now. I got you now. They broadcast all around the world. They go into countries like China, Russia, Cuba, you name it. And they do a lot of important work. They have a lot of great correspondents who work here in Washington. And the Trump administration has been busily shutting them down. Correct. Over the last week or so, and laying off reporters, subjecting them to social media crackdowns and so on.
- [33:47]
Elise Labott
Yeah, I mean, 1300 journalists, like, nothing's. You know, I wrote about this the other day, and I said, like, America First. Like just giving a Pink slip to 1300 journalists who are literally exporting American values for a living. Jim. These people. And it's not just, you know, it's in, you know, dozens of languages, about 98 countries, and they're really, you know, standing up to authoritarianism. They're talking about issues that these, you know, rogue regimes don't want to hear anything about. China is celebrating the move. And you know, look, I mean, Greta Van Susteren who, by the way, volunteers as an anchor for voa, she loves it so much she doesn't even get paid. And she was anchoring, you know, I think she was really thoughtful about the issue. She was talking with our friend Tara Palmeira yesterday. And listen, they need reform. There's a lot of things they could do better. But you know, as I think, this isn't a cost cutting exercise. This is a self inflicted wound. When America's voice goes silent, our enemies are celebrating.
- [34:57]
Jim Acosta
Well, and this is according to New York Times, Chinese state media is gloating about drastic budget cuts to Voice of America and Radio Free Asia, US Government funded media outlets that have for decades drawn protests from Beijing over their coverage of human rights abuses in China. So, I mean, when Chinese state media is gloating about something that Donald Trump and Elon Musk are doing. Yeah, not a good day for democracy.
- [35:23]
Elise Labott
As you said, it's not just Voice of America. It's all, you know, they're canceling contracts for all US Funded global media. So as you said, Radio Free Europe, Radio Free Asia, I thought, you know, isn't there supposed to be this great power competition? Radio Free Asia goes into all those countries in Asia and they're doing Afghanistan. Then there's also, you know, we could talk also about US Institute for Peace, all of these kind of, I think what it's saying is democracy promotion overseas is, you know, over in the Trump administration.
- [35:57]
Jim Acosta
Well, one of the correspondents on Voice of America that the Trump administration has been targeting and going after is Steve Herman. Steve Herman is a terrific journalist. I'm going to try to add him to the program right now because he told me he's available to speak. And this would be a Jim Acosta program. Jim Acosta show exclusive. Let's see. Lee, stand by. I'm trying to add Steve Herman to the chat here. Let's see if it works. The bells and whistles of the substack machine are turning. They're going around in circles. They're seeing if there's Steve Herman right there. Hey, Steve, how are you?
- [36:34]
Steve Herman
Pretty good. Hi, Jim.
- [36:36]
Jim Acosta
And you see Elise Lavit there, too.
- [36:37]
Steve Herman
Yes, great to see you, too. It's been a long time.
- [36:40]
Jim Acosta
Absolutely. And Steve, tell us a little bit about what's going on because to the viewers out there on this show, this is an Exclusive that we're bringing to you right now with Steve Herman. Steve, you've been with Voice of America for how long?
- [36:54]
Steve Herman
I've been on staff about 20 years, and I was a contract reporter for about five years before that in Japan.
- [37:00]
Jim Acosta
And what has been happening lately?
- [37:03]
Steve Herman
Well, the Voice of America, as we speak, if it's not dead, it's severely comatose. There's no programming going out. Nothing's been refreshed since Saturday when the 1500 journalists at the Voice of America were told that they were being indefinitely suspended with pay. But then the following evening, 550 of the contractors, and, you know, we don't distinguish between who's a contractor, full time staffer. They're journalists. They're reporters, editors, engineers, technicians, videographers. 550 of those were told that effective March 31, their contracts are terminated.
- [37:45]
Jim Acosta
And what does that mean for you? Does that mean that basically you're done and you're essentially waiting for your pink slip? I don't even know. How does this work?
- [37:58]
Steve Herman
Yeah, well, it's federal government employment, so there's different categories. I was actually privileged, I guess, to be among the first suspended February 28, before all of this happened the past weekend when I received a letter that I was being placed on what they called excused absence. I never even heard of that, pending an investigation into my social media, which, as you know, Jim and Elise, it was sort of deja vu all over again, as Yogi Berra would say, from the first Trump administration under Michael Pack at usagm, when my social media came under investigation as well, and we were fully exonerated. So I'm, I've been in this status since February 28th. I just want to emphasize I'm showing up here speaking personally. I'm not speaking on behalf of VOA or any of my colleagues or usagm. And, you know, I've agreed to start doing some media appearances with, you know, several caveats that I'm sort of limiting it to a discussion of what's going on at voa, usagm, and, you know, I'll let others get into the whole, you know, press freedom issue and what's happening in American society and all that.
- [39:19]
Jim Acosta
Yeah. And so what is your, basically, what is your status right now? And I think at least once again, but, Elise, just so you know, your audio is still a bit muted there, so you might have to figure out a way to enter the, the audio here. But, Steve, just keep going. And, but so what. What is yours? Are you still in. You're. So you're still an employee.
- [39:38]
Steve Herman
Yes.
- [39:39]
Jim Acosta
You can't broadcast. You can't really report. They have you sidelined. Basically, yeah.
- [39:44]
Steve Herman
Yes. And we have to follow all the rules. And one of the rules is, I'll acknowledge it, that before we make any outside appearances like this, that we have to seek permission from our chain of command.
- [39:56]
Jim Acosta
Right.
- [39:57]
Steve Herman
But I can't get a hold of anybody in my chain of command. I immediately, I was locked out, and on Saturday, all of my colleagues were locked out of their email communication systems whatsoever. So the VOA people, unless they have personal phone numbers and addresses for each other, cannot even communicate with each other.
- [40:16]
Jim Acosta
Annalise, can we. Let's test. Let's test your communication. Now. Can you hear me now?
- [40:20]
Elise Labott
Elise, can you hear me now?
- [40:22]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, we can hear it. Do you have a question for Steve, Elise?
- [40:25]
Elise Labott
Yeah, I mean, look, I think you're being. Steve, you're being very diplomatic, as you have been a longtime diplomatic correspondent. But I mean, essentially you were put on leave because you spoke out a little bit against President Trump's policies. Is that how they've. Talk to us about why that happened? Because the way it was framed, right, is that you were kind of one of these rogue reporters. And then they use that to frame the whole idea that all us, all VOA reporters are lefties and liberals. And, you know, talk to us a little bit about why you had this excuse absence, because I feel like they're using that with a. They're using that with a broad brush.
- [41:10]
Steve Herman
Well, in my particular case, what had happened, there was some attention on my social media, and there was a high ranking US Government official who took umbrage with a particular posting that I had made, which all it was doing was quoting the president of a NGO who was expressing concern about what had happened to usaid. The president says something or does something about USAID or any other federal agency, I would put that on social media. If a member of Congress, opposition party says something against the president's policy, I'll post that. And NGOs are filing suit or whatever. I will certainly, you know, post that on social media as well. So that. And that's all I was doing. And there was this official who. Who said that what I was doing because I was a US Government employed journalist, that. That was tantamount to treason.
- [42:15]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, Steve. I mean, the thing that's nuts about this is they wanted to do this CSI investigation of your social media. But, I mean. But, Steve, I mean, what you've basically been doing is reporting the news, reporting the truth, and that is what bothers them. That is what gets under their skin. That is why they put Carrie Lake, of all people, over at the Voice of America is that they don't want the news, they don't want the facts, and they don't want the truth. That's my personal commentary. You don't have to weigh in and say that.
- [42:44]
Elise Labott
My personal commentary is that. Steve, we'll just do your work for you here.
- [42:49]
Jim Acosta
Yeah.
- [42:49]
Elise Labott
I mean, look, if you remember back to the first administration, there was a lot of concern and Ms. Secretary of State Rubio, then a senator with a lot, couple other Republican congressmen and senators were concerned that President Trump was going to kind of use VOA for political purposes, that it was going to kind of become Trump propaganda. And I think one of the reasons that, you know, they're going after these organizations now is because they realize they can't do that. And so this really is independent news. And, you know, they don't want to support independent news.
- [43:28]
Jim Acosta
Yeah. What are your thoughts, Steve, on all that?
- [43:31]
Steve Herman
Well, I would say that Voice of America is not doing anything differently than it's been doing for the past 83 years. It went on the air. It was quite novel when it went on the air, which is whether the news is good or bad. We're going to tell you the truth, which was in contrast to what was coming out of Berlin or Tokyo on the radio. And it's evolved with the times technologically. Most of the stuff that VOA does is on television or on the Internet or on social media apps. There's still some radio and even some shortwave radio. So it, it stayed very, very relevant. So a lot of these arguments out there about what VOA is and what it isn't and what it's doing. I just urge people to look at the content. And the only a few times to do that, go to VOA news.com the website is still up last. When I checked a few minutes ago. It may not be up for very long. So if people have doubts about whether this is, you know, propaganda, that we're taking one side or the other, go read the content. It's not directed at Americans. It's an external broadcasting service in 50 languages. But Americans, taxpayers are the stakeholders in VOA, so they have a right to, to, to. To have some input into what we're doing. Absolutely. As well as members of Congress.
- [44:49]
Jim Acosta
Well, and it's important because, I mean, we want the message of the United States of America to make it to places like Russia, make it to places like China, make it to places like other totalitarian countries around the world. I guess the flip side of all of that is that because the administration is now taking over VOA and it intends to politicize it to a great degree, I suppose that is a troublesome thing that might be not so good in terms of getting that message out across the world. Because if they're in control of the message, that's not the same thing as having journalists in charge.
- [45:28]
Steve Herman
That was the approach perhaps as of last week. But then essentially VOA and USAGM got doged and they got dodged.
- [45:38]
Jim Acosta
You know, now it's not just maybe nothing like usaid, it may just go away.
- [45:44]
Steve Herman
We don't know. There's no direction, there's no information besides what the, you know, White House has put out some statements and the senior advisor of USAGM has put out some statements as well. So that's our only guidepost. There's been nothing communicated to the staff of the Voice of America except that, hey, you're all on leave and should not do any work until further notice.
- [46:14]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, I mean, we got doged. I mean, that is a, that's a line that a lot of people around Washington are hearing these days. But Steve, what, what does this mean if, I mean, moving forward? I mean, what I have read is that in some places around the world, VOA is just pumping out music. There may just be sort of like a screen that has an eagle on it. I have a journalist friend in Norway who sent me an image from what it looks like in Norway right now. And it, it just sort of looks like the American flag with an eagle on it. I mean, this is some, forgive me for saying this, and this is my commentary, not yours. Rather dystopian sounding.
- [46:53]
Steve Herman
What I first thought of when I heard what was going on, that over the weekend it was slowly dying. It reminded me of that scene with Hal, the AI computer in 2001 a space odyssey where they're pulling out things and it's slowly dying and it's going back to its very basic brain. And you're absolutely right. There's either music going out or a video loop or, or just static. And the website has not been updated since midday Saturday.
- [47:23]
Jim Acosta
So they've just pulled the plug in many and for all intents and purposes, pulled the plug on it. And, and how, and what does that mean for the world? I mean, I, to me it just means that, gosh, I, I can't even put my. I can't even. I'll just ask an open ended question. What does it.
- [47:42]
Elise Labott
Well, I mean, I think. I think. And Steve, you know, I'm sure you would agree because we've had conversations about this before. I mean, when America's voice goes silent, others fill the gap. And it's not going to be with kind of factual, you know, independent news that these people want to hear. It's going to be, you know, state news. It could be disinformation, but, you know, the kind of information that people are getting from VOA are the places that need it the most. And, you know, it's so important. And I don't think that. Honestly, I think that this is a temporary thing. I think, you know, maybe they'll put it back. I do, I do. I do.
- [48:27]
Jim Acosta
They don't know what they're doing with carry insurance.
- [48:29]
Elise Labott
Well, I mean, look, let her play with it a little. Let her tinker with it a little. I don't think it's going to go away. Away. These are congressional. We don't even know if this is legal. They're congressionally mandated organizations. I think Congress will have a say. It could go to the courts. I know Radio Free Europe and Radio Free Asia are going to fight. And look the. Again, the American people. And that's why substack is such a great platform. You know, you have the Congressman on that. They can really. We can really have these conversations. And Steve, we all support you and VOA and. And I don't think this is.
- [49:06]
Steve Herman
Yeah. I have to tell you, what happened on Saturday was a real gut punch 100 times as to what happened to me, because no one's indispensable. Right. Voice of America could go on without me. It would go on, sure, but to eliminate all of the employees. So, Elise, I hope you're right that it comes back in some form. But in the meantime, the Chinese and the Russians take over those vacant frequencies, the satellite transponder leases. If they're not continued, perhaps the Iranians and North Koreans take over those. And so that void will be filled.
- [49:45]
Jim Acosta
And it seems as though Trump and some of the people around him just have a misunderstanding. God, who the hell knows anymore about what VOA does? He thinks of it as some sort.
- [49:57]
Steve Herman
Of, they don't know, propaganda thing for.
- [50:00]
Jim Acosta
The United States, which is not what it's supposed to be. Yeah.
- [50:02]
Steve Herman
You were a member of the White House press pool for many years.
- [50:05]
Jim Acosta
Yeah.
- [50:06]
Steve Herman
As a cnn, so was the Voice of America. We were on those trips with the President, me and my successor, Patsy We Dakoswara. We were in the Oval Office. I remember trying to get a word in Edgewise as you tried to ask four questions at a time, you know, we were all doing our job.
- [50:23]
Jim Acosta
I'm sorry, Steve.
- [50:24]
Steve Herman
No, that was your job. And, you know, the president responded to us, and I don't think he treated VOA any differently. No, he didn't treat it favorably or disfavorably compared to any other reporter. You know, he sort of responded to the question and then decided whether he liked you or didn't like you that day. Right?
- [50:43]
Jim Acosta
Yeah.
- [50:44]
Steve Herman
And.
- [50:44]
Jim Acosta
But they were messing with you back then.
- [50:46]
Steve Herman
Yes, they were, but I don't think I never had any acerbic exchange with, with Donald Trump or subsequently with Joe Biden about the, the types of questions that we were asking or what VOA was up to. We. We have a seat in the, in the, in the White House press room. All the press secretaries knew the types of questions that we were asking, which usually dealt with geopolitics rather than the, you know, domestic.
- [51:16]
Elise Labott
One of your colleagues, I understand, was traveling with Secretary Rubio during this so called, you know, kind of pink slip and her credit card, you know, overseas. Didn't have to work. She had to pay her own money because, you know, these reporters are traveling around on the ground, as you said, traveling with the State Department press pool, traveling with the White House press pool, just like any other reporters getting news.
- [51:42]
Steve Herman
Saturday at midday, everything was cut off.
- [51:44]
Jim Acosta
Is that right? Wow. Wow. Anything else you want to add, Steve? I mean, what happens next? You're just in wait and see mode. It sounds.
- [51:53]
Steve Herman
We're in wait and see mode. You know, I'm not in denial about what's happening. It's very dire. It's. I think it's beyond an existential threat right now to voa that the, the damage that's being done is irreparable. I'd like to be more optimistic, but we need to see some signs of that. We need to see some signal from either the administration or Capitol Hill, or maybe something happens in the courts in the days and weeks ahead that allows this patient, who, as I said, may be dead or may just be in a deep coma right now, to be revived.
- [52:35]
Jim Acosta
And my concern, Steve, is that, okay, they bring it back in a way that Elise was talking about, but it's sort of a zombie agency, and it's filled with people instead of folks like yourself who are committed to journalism. It's something like oan, but with an American flag wrapped around it, and it's pumped out all over the world. That's, That's. I guess I was trying to put it Put my finger on it. That's my concern. That's my.
- [52:58]
Steve Herman
Here's. Here's the point I've been making with people. You know, we have a firewall. We have a statute, we have a charter. This is all law. Okay? We're not. We're not staying in the straight, in the middle because we, you know, that's some sort of personal preference. It's a mandate. We all swore an oath to the Constitution and not to any particular administration. If an administration, any administration, Democrat, Republican, wants to change what the voice of America is, they have to get Congress to change that. And until Congress changes it, everyone, if they're allowed to come back at the voa, are going to do their job. And if a firewall is being violated, they're going to report it. If we're not living up to our charter, which is to tell America's story to the world in a balanced manner and to be fair and objective. I used to be an AP reporter. The way we write our stories is very similar to the ap. It goes through two, sometimes three, sometimes four editors before it goes out to make sure that it represents both sides of what's going on in the United States. If it's a domestic issue, if it's a policy issue, the same sort of thing. You know, we might get a quote from somebody at the Heritage foundation and then from somebody very balanced at the Wilson csis, that, that there's, you know, go look at the stuff yourself while it's still online.
- [54:22]
Jim Acosta
Well, Steve, I really appreciate it. It sounds as though, and I'm not saying that you're saying this, but it sounds as though you have to get some Republican lawmakers up on the Hill reinvested in this to get back to where some of them have their roots from a foreign policy standpoint and wanting the VOA flexing its muscle around the world, spreading the truth, spreading news, spreading reality around the world, not what appears to be taking shape.
- [54:45]
Elise Labott
Yeah, let's get our Secretary of State, who called it, you know, called it so important.
- [54:51]
Jim Acosta
Exactly.
- [54:52]
Steve Herman
There. The other thing that's under usagm, that's a federal entity, is the Office of Cuba Broadcasting, which is radio and tv. Marty, there you go. And there have been a lot of senators down in Florida and members of the House that have been very supportive of radio and TV Martini over the years.
- [55:09]
Jim Acosta
Yeah. As a Cuban American myself, I'm familiar with those institutions down there and what in the work they do. Steve, great to see you. Best of luck to you. Thanks for coming on. Really appreciate it. And well done. Was this your first sub stack?
- [55:25]
Steve Herman
It's my first sub stack live. Yes. I have a sub stack, too. So you'll be back, but maybe I'll be live. Like, I just prefer to come back on Jim's show rather than do my own.
- [55:34]
Jim Acosta
Well, we'll do that.
- [55:37]
Elise Labott
Plenty of friends here.
- [55:39]
Jim Acosta
The more the merrier. Terrific. Thanks, Steve. Really appreciate it. Good to see you. Take care.
- [55:43]
Elise Labott
Bye.
- [55:43]
Jim Acosta
Bye. Best of luck. My goodness, Elise, I'm gonna have you stand by. What were your impressions of what Steve had to say there? Because it's downright chilling. I hope you're right. I hope it does come back. I hope a judge stands in the way and says, you can't do this, and Steve and all those folks can go back to work. But with Trump thumbing his nose at the courts on other things, I have to assume they're gonna do that here, too.
- [56:02]
Elise Labott
You know, the thing that really annoys me about this is Carrie Lay kind of started mouthing off about VOA and global media before she really knew what it was.
- [56:12]
Jim Acosta
Yeah.
- [56:13]
Elise Labott
And, I mean, she showed up with some DOGE people, apparently, and, you know, started poking under the hood, but, you know, in full transparency. I did some consulting once for voa, and they wanted to know, you know, about the war in Gaza, if it was balanced, if they got enough of both sides, if, you know, it was accurate, if it portrayed the US Policies accurately. I mean, I think what Carrie Lake needs to do is go in there and she can't but see what a real strategic asset this is. And, you know, Jim and I do think that if. If, you know, people that know what VOA is, if they can talk to the president, I think the president, you know, he could easily change his mind tomorrow if he thinks that it's an asset in his toolkit. You know what I mean?
- [57:03]
Jim Acosta
Terrific.
- [57:03]
Elise Labott
And look, you know, again, Greta Van Suster was saying, look, it needs a lot of financial reform. They're, you know, kind of. They have, like, you know, dozens of newsrooms and dozens of languages with dozens of, you know, different. We don't. They're all saying different things. I think they need to standardize the newsrooms, and they can make it much more efficient, much more lean and mean. But it's a, you know, look, it's a real strategic asset. And like with the news we saw today, whether it's in Russia, whether it's in Israel and Gaza, whether it's with the Houthis, I mean.
- [57:33]
Jim Acosta
Yeah.
- [57:33]
Elise Labott
You know, look, we need that US Message around the world.
- [57:36]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, well, And I hope you're right. I want to be optimistic, too. I'm just not optimistic given everything that's going on. But let me ask you about Russia and Ukraine, because we didn't get into this earlier. It sounds as though the readouts coming from the Russians and from the White House is that maybe they didn't really achieve all that much. It sounds like they're on kind of a pathway to, you know, staying away from infrastructure that might be part of a energy infrastructure, part of a cease fire agreement of some sort. The Ukrainians aren't on board with this. So it's sort, it's almost like another day that ends. And why we don't really have a deal as of yet.
- [58:10]
Elise Labott
Well, I mean, you know, the infrastructure and the energy could help Ukrainians because I think it would stop, you know, more civilians from getting killed. But if you notice, that's areas where the Ukrainians have been successful.
- [58:24]
Jim Acosta
Right.
- [58:24]
Elise Labott
So it actually helps Putin to do that because if the Ukrainians are going to stop going after Russian energy, which is very important, and Russian infrastructure, then that helps them. I mean, look, these were Russian terms. If you look at what came out of it, these are Russian terms. He didn't really give all that much. He wants to keep negotiating. And I have a piece today which is like, this is his, this is his game. This. Yes, but where he kind of gives a little basically to live another day. And you were saying it earlier with the congressman and I got to say that was a fabulous conversation. I love that Congressman can come on the show and just be a little more loose. A little more loose? Yeah, a little. I mean, forget about the F bombs and the S bombs, but just really, you know, kind of say what they think and have more than three minutes in a live shot to kind of, you know, say their, say their truth. You were talking about this. I mean, you know, this is just to keep Ukraine terminally weak. This is basically, he's trying to negotiate Ukrainian surrender and it's really just a question of whether he's. Trump is going to give him everything he wants because, you know, look, a halt to fighting for 30 days is a good thing. Let's. Let's be honest.
- [59:44]
Jim Acosta
Well, that's true. Yeah.
- [59:45]
Elise Labott
But a permanent, if you look at what Russia's talking about, for perfect, permanently, no aid for Ukraine, no foreign aid for Ukraine, no intelligence for Ukraine. Like, he wants Ukraine to stay terminally weak. So even if he can't conquer it all today, he can live to fight another day.
- [60:00]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, well, and just a programming Note to folks out there who might just be tuning in. We normally come on at 4:00 every day. We started at 3:00 today. I had Congressman Brendan Boyle on. Then I had a surprise in that Steve Herman from VOA was able to join Elise and I to talk. What about what's happening over at voa. But I want to talk about all this foreign policy stuff that's in the news, at least. That's why I'm glad you're on.
- [60:21]
Elise Labott
Yeah. We got 6,400 people watching, so we got to give it to them.
- [60:25]
Jim Acosta
Yeah. And the Russia thing is important, as you mentioned, that maybe they took a baby inch step forward. But it just seems to me, unless Zelensky is involved, unless he's at the table, unless he is a one third of the equation here, Donald Trump is not going to be able to negotiate this just between him and Vladimir Putin, because any negotiation that cuts out the Ukrainians essentially is a win for Vladimir Putin. It's how it's going to be received in Moscow. And it just seems to me that the Ukrainians just aren't going to want any part of that. Even if Zelenskyy were to say, okay, Uncle, I'll go along with it, that doesn't mean the Ukrainian people are going to be a part of it. You know what I mean? It just seems to me it. They've got, you know, Trump is just deluding himself here into thinking that he can do this on his own. He can't. It's not like, you know, all of the other stuff that he tries to do, which is with, you know, spending about, you know, half a second of thought on it.
- [61:24]
Elise Labott
Okay, well, look, Russia is the aggressor here, right? So, you know, the main, like, the first thing is to get Russia's terms, what, you know, he'll do to stop the fighting. Right. And there is like, what, you know, we've covered in history, like shuttle diplomacy where you go to one and then you go to the other, and then you go to the other and you go back and forth. That's not what this is, as you said. This is Trump and Putin kind of negotiating the terms and trying to go to Zelensky and then say, eat it.
- [61:52]
Jim Acosta
Yeah.
- [61:53]
Elise Labott
But, you know, I think what people are ignoring is that, you know, the Ukrainians are not ready to give up. They're not ready to give up even. They're not ready to just take any deal, because a negotiation or a ceasefire without, like, security guarantees and guarantees of certain things is not peace for them. And so that's, you know, they're just not going to do it. And, you know, not only should Ukrainians be at the table, but, you know, the stakeholders like Russia, like the Europeans should also be at the table. And Jim, I just want to say something about. Did you, you know, in this readout, it was kind of a. It was, yeah, let's get to the, you know, ceasefire stuff up top. And isn't this great that we have this ceasefire? And then it talked about their relationship. Right. And, you know, broader U.S. russia relations. Don't, you know, it's not.
- [62:42]
Jim Acosta
That's a very good point.
- [62:43]
Elise Labott
Not saying it's not a good thing, but it was really trying to pump Putin up as the big man, the Middle east, you know.
- [62:50]
Jim Acosta
Yeah.
- [62:51]
Elise Labott
Putin got kicked out of the Middle east after Syria fell. Iran is very weak. Russia wants to get back in there. And he's. And so Trump is kind of, in my view, kind of pushing Iran back in there so that Russia can like, be at the table again. And it closes on this. Oh, these two great leaders are going to make world peace. And so, you know, it's quite something.
- [63:13]
Jim Acosta
When you have, when you have Donald Trump trying to soothe Vladimir Putin's hurt feelings. I mean, that is. My goodness. Wow, that just broke my brain. Because usually it's Trump who's on the receiving end of that kind of heavy petting. But I want to ask you, Elise, what happened to the Israeli Hamas ceasefire? It sounds as though this wave of Israeli strikes, the AP reporting, killing hundreds of Palestinians across the Gaza Strip, was the culmination of Netanyahu's efforts to get out of the ceasefire with Hamas that he agreed to in January. What's going on?
- [63:51]
Elise Labott
Well, a couple of things. First of all, Israeli budget season, you know, it's wider than just like, yeah, look, Hamas domestic politics. You know, basically what happened is there was this two month ceasefire and what the administrator, what the Trump administration was trying to do was trying to get them to extend it. Basically they called it a bridging proposal, but it's basically just, let's keep it going, let's keep the end to the fighting going and let's get some more hostages out and, and let's just keep this going. And the hope is that that could go into a full end to the war. But, you know, the hostages were, you know, Hamas didn't want to do that. Hamas wanted an end to the war. They weren't ready to give up more hostages. And it looks like Trump, it looks like Trump is in full agreement With Netanyahu, you saw maybe he gave a warning about a week ago, Right? Basically. Basically, Netanyahu unleashed what happened as soon as the ceasefire broke down. Itmar Ben gvir, you know, that right winger who used to be in the government, one of the top right wingers, extreme members of the government. Now he's part of the guy. He's going to join the government again. Isn't that great? And so Netanyahu is scary.
- [65:06]
Steve Herman
Yeah.
- [65:06]
Elise Labott
He's able to get his right wing base back. It's the deadliest, I will say it's the deadliest day in the war. In the 17 month war. This is the deadliest day for, you know, I mean, we always say like, oh, the Hamas run, you know, health ministry, they said 400 people. Even if it's half of that, it's too many. They did kill some Hamas political leaders, including one of the top political leaders. Because what Israel wants to do is not just destroy Hamas, but destroy the kind of political entity. And that's not working either.
- [65:42]
Jim Acosta
No, it's not. And again, this is another area where, you know, Trump said he was going to snap his fingers and make things happen. The world is turning out to be a more complicated place. Elise, great to see you as always. Thank you for doing this always. I really appreciate those insights and I know that the viewers out there do as well because they've just been continuing to tune in. So thank you.
- [66:02]
Elise Labott
Yeah. And I mean also I just, I think the show is such a great, you know, as you said the other last time we were on, like, it's just our friends like talking about what we know and being our reporter, MCR reporters, notebooks.
- [66:17]
Jim Acosta
Yeah.
- [66:17]
Elise Labott
And have the kind of conversations that we don't get to have in like a three minute and just a little more unplugged and talk about the things and get to hear the audience like weigh in in real time about what's important to them. So I'm glad to be with you always.
- [66:32]
Jim Acosta
Great. And this is my friends and family plan is, is what I've been calling this. So Elise, great to see you as always. Thanks a lot.
- [66:38]
Elise Labott
Appreciate it.
- [66:39]
Jim Acosta
Thank you too. Elise is always terrific. And yeah, no frills that, that is. It's kind of one of the mottos of the show. That's true. It's, it is kind of no frills. And Elise, you know, had some audio things going on when I was interviewing Steve Herman, but we got her back in there and I mean, that's one of the beauty things of, of this program. Of being able to come to you every day on Substack is, you know, we can kind of call an audible here and there. And as I was getting ready to go on and getting the congressman on, on the show, Steve Herman with Voice of America was texting me or DMing me and saying, hey, I can do this. I'm at this handle. And so as I was in the, you know, in the middle of the broadcast, you might have seen me looking down mountain and looking at this and looking at that, and I was seeing Steve's messages saying, yes, I can come on. My handle is at News Guy. So anyway, so it just sort of. We're just kind of building the plane mid flight and then also trying not to crash it into the mountain, but at the same time, you know, deliver some, some news and information to everybody and, and bring stuff to you that, that frankly, I, I think is missing out there a little bit. You know, we need to hear from people like Steve Herman. You heard him say during that interview, 20 years at the Voice of America, 20 years he's been there. And, you know, that is a dedicated journalist. And, you know, the Voice of America that is not like, you know, working at the Tonight show or Good Morning America or something like that. You know, Steve is doing the Lord's work. He is out there reporting the truth, reporting news to people around the world. He's doing it for the love of the craft, as I like to put it in this business. And we need more people like Steve Herman. You know, the Voice of America is not supposed to be the voice of maga. And I don't know if Donald Trump understands that. I know, actually, I know he doesn't understand that. I know Carrie Lake doesn't understand that the Voice of America is not the voice of maga. And people like Steve Herman are the voice of America because they want to deliver the news. They want to deliver the truth. And, and so I really appreciate him coming on and giving us that exclusive. I, I wish him the best. And of course, we're going to continue to hear from him. I do want to end with a. And we've been going really late into the this program, typically on a 4 o'clock, but I came on at 3 o'clock and we're now getting close to an hour and 15 minutes straight on the air. But I do want to end with a new segment. I'm going to call it have you no Shame. It's sort of like the Dear Leader Files, but this one's going to be have you no shame. And it's because this story has caught my eye in the Washington Post and apparently some other great journalists have been working on this as well over at, I believe, Task and Purpose, if I have that correct. But the Washington Post has been reporting this Arlington National Cemetery has scrubbed information about prominent black, Hispanic and female service members and topics such as the Civil War from its website, part of a broader effort across the Defense Department to remove all references to diversity, equity and inclusion from its online presence. This again, according to the Washington Post. A cemetery spokesperson confirmed Friday that it removed internal links directing users to web pages listing the dozens of notable graves at Arlington National Cemetery of black, Hispanic and female veterans and their spouses. On these pages, again, according to the Washington Post, users could read short biographies about the people buried in the cemetery, including Colin Powell, including general Colin L. Powell, the youngest and first black chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. Also Hector Santa Anna, a World War II B17, a bomber pilot, and the Tuskegee Airmen, for example. Those records were apparently wiped off that website for Arlington National Cemetery. Just absolutely outrageous. Absolutely outrageous. And this is don't blame the cemetery for this, folks. This is directed by Pete Hegseth over at the Defense Department. An update in the Washington Post today, though, on this subject. Amid DEI purge, Pentagon removes Webpage on Iwo Jima flag Raiser here's the story from the Washington Post. Until recently, a page on the Defense Department's website celebrated Pfc. Ira Hayes, a Pima Indian who was One of the six Marines photographed hoisting a US flag on Iwo Jima in 1945 as an emblem of the contributions and sacrifices Native Americans have made to the United States, not just in the military, but in all all walks of life. But the page, along with many others about Native American and other minority service members, has now been erased amid the administration's wide ranging crackdown on what it says are DEI efforts in the federal government. A review by the Washington Post found Folks, if we're removing records on folks who have raised the flag at Iwo Jima, have helped raise the flag at Iwo Jima, my God, have you no shame? When we're removing records at Arlington National Cemetery, where my grandparents are buried, by the way, my mom's side when you're removing records from Arlington National Cemetery that celebrate the lives of people like Colin Powell and the Tuskegee Airmen, again I ask the question, have you no shame? Have you no shame? Secretary PETE Hegseth, have you no shame? They're talking about removing DEI as if Colin Powell didn't earn it. As if one of the men who raised the flag at Iwo Jima didn't earn it. Have you no shame? Did Pete Hegseth earn it in terms of being the defense secretary of the United States? Did he earn it? Come on. We all know he did not deserve to be named secretary of the Defense of the United States of America. Give me a break. I asked the question. As you're trying to scrub from our history the achievements of people like Colin Powell, I ask the question. Pete Hegseth, have you no shame? Have you no shame? I want to thank everybody for watching. The Jim Acosta show went a little late today. A bit of a special edition in that we started a little bit earlier today. My thanks to Congressman Brendan Boyle of Pennsylvania, Elise Labet, my former colleague and foreign policy expert, and Steve Herman over at the Voice of America, which should remain the Voice of America. Still reporting from Washington, I'm Jim Acosta. Have a good day.