Tara Palmeri on big news in the Epstein case plus free speech expert Nico Perrino on the Paramount/Trump settlement.

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Jim Acosta Show – July 7, 2025

Title: Tara Palmeri on Big News in the Epstein Case Plus Free Speech Expert Nico Perino on the Paramount/Trump Settlement
Host: Jim Acosta
Guests: Tara Palmeri, Nico Perino
Release Date: July 7, 2025
Link: jimacosta.substack.com

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1. Introduction and Epstein Case Developments

Timestamp: 00:00 – 01:15

Jim Acosta opens the show by welcoming Tara Palmeri, a seasoned reporter known for her extensive coverage of the Jeffrey Epstein case. Acosta references recent reports from Axios indicating that the Justice Department and FBI have found no evidence of Epstein possessing a client list or being murdered. He juxtaposes these official statements with the previously rampant conspiracy theories suggesting Epstein's involvement with powerful figures and his untimely death.

Key Quote:
Jim Acosta: “Overnight, Axios reported that the Justice Department and the FBI have concluded that they have no evidence that Jeffrey Epstein... was murdered.”

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2. Tara Palmeri Challenges Official Findings

Timestamp: 01:15 – 07:47

Tara Palmeri systematically deconstructs the DOJ and FBI's recent claims. Drawing from her two-year investigative experience alongside Julie K. Brown, Palmeri highlights:

• Extensive, often redacted, evidence within FBI archives indicating deeper layers of Epstein’s operations.
• Testimonies from victims and witnesses that suggest the presence of more incriminating evidence than what has been publicly disclosed.
• The dubious reliability of Pam Bondi’s assertion about a client list, asserting, “there is never a list,” and emphasizing that flight logs alone do not equate to direct involvement in sex trafficking.

Key Quotes:
Tara Palmeri: “There was never a list. There is footage, there's videos…he was able to…get off on a charge that was trafficking a teenager for prostitution.”
Tara Palmeri: “This is a clear cut case and why should they believe that anyone's going to fight for them?”

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3. Political Weaponization and Lack of Prosecution

Timestamp: 07:47 – 12:38

Palmeri explores the political implications of the Epstein case, suggesting that the lack of prosecution against powerful individuals is due to their ability to secure “the best defense attorneys in the world” and manage public narratives effectively. She underscores the societal failings that allowed Epstein to remain influential, leading to the exploitation and trauma of numerous survivors.

Key Quote:
Tara Palmeri: “It really has become more of like this political weapon…he was able to do that…the FBI has a lot of evidence right now.”

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4. Elon Musk’s Involvement and DOJ’s Response

Timestamp: 10:28 – 12:38

Jim Acosta brings up Elon Musk's recent tweets igniting public discourse on the Epstein case, questioning the timing and intentions behind the DOJ's swift release of information. Palmeri speculates that the DOJ's actions may be aimed at preserving evidence for ongoing or future cases, rather than a transparent disclosure.

Key Quote:
Tara Palmeri: “I think Elon Musk is antagonizing the situation…using them to build cases against the Johns.”

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5. Paramount-Trump Settlement and Implications for Free Speech

Timestamp: 20:05 – 35:31

Transitioning from the Epstein discussion, Acosta addresses the settlement between Paramount and Donald Trump, alleging it to be a payoff to silence critical reporting. To delve deeper into the ramifications for free speech and press freedom, Acosta introduces Nico Perino, a free speech expert from the Foundation for Individual Rights and Expression.

Key Quote:
Jim Acosta: “They [Paramount] basically paid a bribe to the president…you can't have institutions like CBS...paying what is essentially a bribe to the president of the United States.”

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6. Nico Perino on the Erosion of Free Press

Timestamp: 23:31 – 35:31

Nico Perino provides an analysis of the Trump administration's intensified attacks on free expression, highlighting:

• The trend of major media companies capitulating to presidential pressure to settle lawsuits.
• The broader implications of these actions on democracy and the foundational principles of the First Amendment.
• Comparisons to historical threats against the press, emphasizing the need for unwavering support for all media entities, regardless of political alignment.

Key Quotes:
Nico Perino: “Behavior that gets rewarded gets repeated…Trump is doing some of the exact same things we saw on campus.”
Nico Perino: “We need to support the rights of the press and we need to support the rights of individuals to speak freely.”

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7. The Broken Media Ecosystem and Future Implications

Timestamp: 35:31 – 42:10

Jim Acosta reflects on the compromised state of the American media landscape, citing examples such as the Associated Press lawsuit and CBS's settlement with Trump. He questions whether the current system can sustain a truly free press when major corporations and influential individuals exert undue influence over news reporting.

Key Quote:
Jim Acosta: “If the President has this kind of leverage over these very large media companies…is that, am I way off base here?”

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8. Conclusion and Call for Empathy Amidst Tragedy

Timestamp: 43:43 – End (57:29)

As the episode nears its end, Acosta shifts focus to the tragic flash floods in Central Texas, expressing heartfelt condolences to the victims and emphasizing the importance of federal emergency response and scientific monitoring. He urges listeners to set aside political biases in the face of natural disasters, advocating for compassion and support for affected families.

Key Quote:
Jim Acosta: “Please spend a few moments and just, you know, think about what these folks have been going through.”

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Final Thoughts

Throughout the episode, Jim Acosta masterfully intertwines critical investigations into high-profile cases with broader discussions on media integrity and free speech. By bringing in experts like Tara Palmeri and Nico Perino, Acosta provides listeners with in-depth perspectives on how political pressures and influential figures can undermine justice and democratic principles. The episode serves as a compelling call to action for maintaining journalistic independence and safeguarding the foundational pillars of free expression.

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Notable Quotes Summary:

• Jim Acosta: “Overnight, Axios reported that the Justice Department and the FBI have concluded that they have no evidence that Jeffrey Epstein... was murdered.” [00:00]

• Tara Palmeri: “There was never a list. There is footage, there's videos…he was able to…get off on a charge that was trafficking a teenager for prostitution.” [03:54]

• Nico Perino: “Behavior that gets rewarded gets repeated…Trump is doing some of the exact same things we saw on campus.” [25:40]

• Jim Acosta: “They [Paramount] basically paid a bribe to the president…you can't have institutions like CBS...paying what is essentially a bribe to the president of the United States.” [35:31]

• Jim Acosta: “Please spend a few moments and just, you know, think about what these folks have been going through.” [42:10]

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Stay Connected:

• Watch the Recording: Available on Substack and YouTube.
• Listen on: Apple Podcasts and other major platforms.

Transcript

[Jim Acosta]

All right, everybody, welcome to the Jim Acosta show. Coming a little earlier today on this Monday. But the reason why is because I have Tara Paul, Mary with me. Tara, great to see you. And obviously, I mean, one of the reasons why I wanted to reach out to you is because you have been pretty extensively covering this Jeffrey Epstein case. And as you and I both know, I know you're overseas right now, but overnight, Axios reported that the Justice Department and the FBI have concluded that they have no evidence that Jeffrey Epstein, the convicted sex offender, disgraced financier, blackmailed powerful figures, kept a client list. Client list or was murdered. They also released a video showing that nobody entered the area of his prison cell, I guess, where he was the night he died in 2019. I've always thought, Tara, that this was sort of like the wackadoodle, far right, fringe type stuff, that people were focused on this and saying, oh, it's, you know, he was actually murdered. And he, you know, kept lists of all these prominent Democratic figures and so on. And it's interesting to see this news come out and now the far right saying, we don't buy. I mean, what do you. Just to get started, what do you make of just the release of this information that we're seeing in the last 24 hours? And then I'll get into all the other stuff.

[Tara Palmeri]

Yeah, thanks for having me, Jim. So I don't believe everything that they're saying. And I did investigate this story. For two years. I worked with Julie K. Brown, who was the executive producer of my podcast Broken Jeffrey Epstein and another one power, the Maxwells. She wasn't the EP on the second one, but we, you know, we dug into the actual files and we spoke to the girls who testified were witnesses. They were deposed. And, you know, there is a lot more evidence that the FBI has. If you look inside of the vault, you can all look at the Epstein files on the FBI website, the vault. It will take you days and days or thousands and thousands of files. A lot of it is redacted. And, you know, I spoke to a senior law enforcement source a week or so ago, and I asked them, you know, what are you doing with the tapes? With. What are you doing with the footage? Because Epstein did take a lot of pictures. He was really into that. In fact, I know Virginia Duke Bright was a really good friend of mine, and I, you know, I spoke to her before she died. She was brought into the FBI by her lawyer at the time, Stan Pottinger. You would know him. He's a very prominent lawyer and she was there to identify her body underneath a john, underneath one of his friends. So the idea that there isn't more evidence now, it wasn't her body. She said, that's, those aren't my breasts. That's not me. So the idea that the FBI doesn't have this information, that's, I don't find that to be true. I also don't think Pam Bondi is a reliable actor and in this or source, because she says on Fox News a few months ago, there is a client list. It's sitting on my desk right now.

[Jim Acosta]

I, I, tell us about that because I, I, that was the thing that when I was looking at this, you know, earlier this morning, everybody was dunking on Pam Bondi and showing the video from when she was on Fox in February. The Epstein client list is sitting on my desk right now, she said, and now they're saying that there isn't one. But what do you make of that? How do, how do you, you know, square that circle?

[Tara Palmeri]

Okay, here, here's how you do it. So there was never a list. And I said that the past two weeks, I have been going on shows. I went on Jen Wager show, the Young Turks. I went on the Daily Beast podcast. Suddenly the FBI finally comes out with all this after I've been saying this. We put out a video last night. They finally, around the time that they put up that memo, a few hours later, they put out a video, a memo saying that, yes, there is no list. There's never been a list. Okay, yes, there are flight logs. You can all go on the, you know, vault and go find the flight logs. There is one, There is one.

[Jim Acosta]

There are files, There are files.

[Tara Palmeri]

But there, there is, there is one pilot who's still holding on to his flight log and flight logs. And we actually went to his house and knocked on the door to try to get them. Like, that is how deep into the story I've been in there. I am in it, you know, and so there are obvious, there's a little black book, but that doesn't mean just because you're on the flight logs are in the little black book that you were involved in sex trafficking. Right? But there is footage, there's videos. I mean, even Pam Bondi spoke about it. But there was never a list. There was never just like Jeffrey Epstein around a piece of paper and he was just dangling it around. And it really has become more of like this political weapon. It's been, you know, but he liked the idea of bragging to people that you Know, Trump is my boy. I'll never get prosecuted. Bill Barr is my boy. I'll never get prosecuted. That was what he would tell a defense attorneys and criminal attorneys, and he would tell anyone who was trying to come after him that he was untouchable. And so. And how do you become untouchable? You have to know people's secrets. Right. And also, why would all these rich and powerful people give a man who was a math teacher at Dalton their money to manage? Okay, right. He's, he was no like Sven Golly when it comes to finances. And he had all the wealthiest and most powerful men just eager to hang out with him. I'm sorry, Jeffrey Epstein was no like he was. There was nothing incredible about Jeffrey Epstein. He, he was a man who brought a lot of women around him all the time. Now, here's one thing that I. There are a few, there are a few reasons why I think that this case has not been prosecuted yet. I have seen the list that some of the victims have written of the men that they were trafficked to. And I can tell you these are very powerful men. And if they were prosecuted, some of.

[Jim Acosta]

These names have not been made public.

[Tara Palmeri]

Some of them have, some of them haven't. But if they were prosecuted, they would have the best defense attorneys in the world. And you know this as a journalist, that prosecutors don't take cases up unless they think they can win. Right, Right. And these, you have to be. So you need to, you just need to have an ironclad case. That's the way the prosecutors think. That's the way DA's think that. That's the way the state attorneys think. A lot of them run for election and they run based on the number of cases that they're able to prosecute and win. And so they do not want to take on a case against a very powerful person who can win. And, and frankly, Epstein, he was able to do that. I mean, he, he got off on a charge that was trafficking a teenager for prostitution. A 13 year old for prostitution. This was back in 2008. As if a 13 year old could be a prostitute. I mean, that shouldn't even be a charge. So that's all to say that the FBI has a lot of evidence right now. Now I understand not making that public because of how that can be traumatizing to a lot of the victims who are Jane Does. Right?

[Jim Acosta]

Sure.

[Tara Palmeri]

And a lot of those Jane does have also been paid off. A lot of them have dealt with witness intimidation. And a lot of those men, those Johns, they A lot of them were with women who were 18. And that's the other thing that gets tricky, is figuring out how old the girls were at the time. Now, to me, 18 is still a child, but it is legally, it is legal. So that it gets complicated because Jeffrey liked to keep the young girls to himself. And when I say little girls, I mean when Courtney Wilde, who brought, who basically was able to reprosecute Jeffrey Epstein through the Crime Victims Rights act case that she won, she was 14 years old and wearing braces when she was brought to his house.

[Jim Acosta]

Oh, God, no.

[Tara Palmeri]

This is, this is. Was disgusting. And, and I, that's why I just, I find all of this like, oh, let's just close the book. It's all done. Everything's clean and it's disgusting.

[Jim Acosta]

That's how it looks to me, Tara. And for the longest time I was sort of like, why is the right wing all, you know, weed up about this? You know, it was just sort of their way of going after people like Bill Gates and Bill Clinton and stuff like that. But I mean, this looks like some kind of COVID up, the way that this was released and leaked to the press to say, oh, there is no list. Oh, here's the video. I mean, that doesn't necessarily. I mean, two things could be true at once. There could be no list, but there could also be redacted files that just don't. That have the kind of information that they don't want out there that is.

[Tara Palmeri]

More powerful than a list. The actual evidence they are sitting on is more powerful than the list. I actually went back to the senior law enforcement source that I spoke to a few weeks ago before I started going on these shows and explaining the idea that there is no list. I went on the shows to explain there was no list because of Elon Musk's comments that Trump is in the files. Trump is in the files. Trump is. Trump was on the flight logs. Trump's in the little black book. But that's very different than having actual files.

[Jim Acosta]

He's been photographed with Epstein umpteen times.

[Tara Palmeri]

Yeah, they were, they were pals at the height of Trump of Epstein's sex trafficking operation. Is there a smoking gun connecting the two? No. There was a Jane Doe who put forward a case, but she rescinded it. And it was very quickly, very quickly happened. I know that from the girls that I spoke to. None of them said that they were ever trafficked to Donald Trump. And I would never report something unless I had firsthand knowledge of it. So I can't Ever say that. I do have recordings. You can check it out, by the way, for everyone who's really interested in Epstein. On my YouTube channel, Tara Palmeri. I. I interviewed one of the lawyer for Courtney Wild, Bradley Edwards, who represents most of the victims, and he deposed Trump for his case. And Trump talks about his friendship with Jeffrey Epstein. And he said that when he was friends with Jeffrey Epstein, that when. And when he asked Jeffrey why he had all these young girls hanging out at the house, he said it was a Big Brother, Big Sister program. And to me, I think that when somebody looks the other way for. For so long, like, when does it become enabling?

[Jim Acosta]

Right.

[Tara Palmeri]

You know, the looking the other way. And that's. That's always been my biggest. That's always become the part of the story that I think gets lost in the wealth porn of it all is the. Is the whole, like, society that. That all of these people could then allow Jeffrey Epstein back into society after he even served.

[Jim Acosta]

Oh, it's disgusting.

[Tara Palmeri]

It's right, Exactly. And the fact that Jeffrey Epstein and Trump, they didn't have a breakup over these girls. They, they had. They broke up over a piece of real estate. They both wanted the same property, some waterfront property in Palm Beach.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah. And so I guess then what is Elon Musk up to? Because obviously, I don't know what he knows, but, I mean, he was, you know, live tweeting overnight, all kinds of stuff. You know, he tweeted 9 hours ago in the middle of the night. What's the time? Oh, look, it's. No one has been arrested o' clock again. And not that we want to put a whole lot of stock in what Elon Musk is saying or doing on social media, but. But he's the one who kind of got this party started in terms of what the hell is going on with Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein, in terms of where the, you know, the lists are or what's in the files, that storyline, what do you think is happening there? I mean, honestly, what do we know?

[Tara Palmeri]

I mean, I think Elon Musk is antagonizing the situation. And I think that this reaction from the doj. The doj, which according to my sources a few weeks ago told me, hang tight, Tara. A big part of the reason why we haven't released the videos or the footage is because we're using them to build cases against the Johns. And if we put out that prejudicial information, it could destroy our cases before they're ready. Because, as you know, like I mentioned earlier, they're going to be up against the best defense attorneys in the world. And they're also, they don't want their witnesses to deal with witness tampering. And they also don't want Ghis Maxwell to then use who's in prison right now, she was the groomer to then use that crim that, that new evidence as a means to reopen her own trial. That was another, that was also made clear to me that they didn't want that new evidence made known. Because I also. Listen, I don't have anything to back this up. This is purely conjecture. So and I, because, because this story is one that lives in conspiracy land in a lot of ways. And I am a real journalist like you. I do try to make sure I'm clear about what is something that I seek conjecture on what is real. But I have to think that Ghislaine Maxwell will not spend all, I think she's spending a few decades in prison. I have to think that she must be helping them with their case. And so that's a whole if building future cases. But the fact that the Attorney general comes out with a memo saying that there will be no third parties, uncharged third parties being prosecuted.

[Nico Perino]

Yeah.

[Jim Acosta]

What's that all about? What does that mean? It sounds like a cover up. It sounds like she's sweeping stuff under the rug.

[Tara Palmeri]

It just does sounds like she's saying they're not going to prosecute the Johns. Now, I'm supposed to talk to my source soon and when I do, I will definitely, maybe we can do another one of these and I'll let you know because this is a very high ranking source inside of the FBI. But I am very, very confused because this, a few weeks ago they told me, don't worry, we're working on cases. And that's why. And we do have this footage and we do have these videos. And by the way, in the first case against Jeffrey EPSTEIN Back in 2006, when they went, when the police raided his house, they took out so many cameras, right? So many cameras. So.

[Jim Acosta]

And of course, that was part of his M.O. that was his right. That was he wanted to arm himself with ammunition in case people came after him. I mean. Right. I mean that.

[Tara Palmeri]

Yeah. And I'm so tired of the story being like, oh, it's all Democrats on the list, it's all Republicans on the list. Everybody's on the list. Okay? And I don't mean the list, I mean the files in the files in the files. See, even I'm falling into the trap of calling it the list?

[Jim Acosta]

No. And.

[Tara Palmeri]

But that's become weaponized.

[Jim Acosta]

But this is why I have, you know, my. My spidey senses tingling here, and I. And I don't want to hold you up for too long here because I know you got to get going. But you and I both know, Tara, since we've been in this business for a long time, when stuff gets put out over 4th of July weekend, it's the same reason why they passed that big, you know, boulder of bullshit, as I was calling it, the BBB bill. You know, they did that over Fourth of July weekend and signed it and everything. That's always a telltale sign that they want to bury something. It just is. And so, you know, they put it out overnight. To me, it just strikes me as a little too cute by half. And something is going on here, and we don't know what it is. And it's a Scooby Doo mystery. We're going to figure it out, I guess, one of these days, I suppose. But it just. Something smells. Something stinks.

[Tara Palmeri]

Yeah. I mean, I've been texting with some of the survivors this morning, and I don't know if you remember Maria Farmer, but she actually called the FBI. Her and her sister are both sexually abused at the home of Les Wexner, which was. He's the owner. This was Epstein's best friend. He's the owner of Victoria's Secret. He's the first person to really bring Epstein into the high life, coming from being a math teacher at Dalton. Actually, Bill Barr's father was the headmaster there and hired him, but had to get rid of him for being too creepy around students. But she said to me, Maria Farmer, who, bless her, I mean, so many people. And I want to. Let me just first say what Maria said, and then I want to explain one more thing before I tell you, because I always feel like we lose. We always lose track of what this is really about, and it's about the survivors. But Maria said to me this morning, the abuse for me, isn't sexual. It's decades of systematic government abuse from the top. And Virginia had to grapple with both. You know, we had to deal with the government before the trial. Those little teens in Florida also did all of these interviews after 2006. Nothing happened. He goes, does, like, basically house arrest. You know, he's. He's got an ankle bracelet. And they did so much for justice, and they didn't get anything in exchange. And these moments like this. Like, this is really the thing that. That really. It kills them. And there is High. There are high rates of suicide within survivors of sexual abuse. It's a fact.

[Jim Acosta]

And this is why people don't come forward, this is why women don't come forward and report these crimes. Because they, they, they, they just think the system's not going to work on their back.

[Tara Palmeri]

Why should they? I mean this is a clear cut case and why should they believe that anyone's going to fight for them? And somebody was saying, did Virginia, why did Virginia kill herself? For the reasons that I am telling, I just said right there. Right. I get, I get really upset with the conspiracy theorists were like, she was off. Don't you think she would have been offed? You know, she's been telling her story of sexual abuse for decades and no one would listen to her, believe her.

[Jim Acosta]

Well, and it's just remarkable. And I know you have to go, but to see like some of these, these far right fringe figures, I could use more colorful words, but you're reminding me that, you know, we're supposed to be journalists here. So I'm trying to keep it in check. But I mean, some of the really bad faith people who were over at the White House waving around files was A D. The D.C. drano guy and the Libs of TikTok person. And I mean they've been sort of reveling in this story for years and years. And I, to give some of them credit, I suppose some of them are on social media and saying, what the hell's going on here? But it is kind of a remarkable moment in that this was something that came out of the far right fringe and they were focused on it for a long, long time. And now it seems like the far right fringe people who are now in the administration, some of whom were fanning the flames of this controversy themselves, are now trying to like, okay, we're trying to move on here. Let's just keep on moving. Nothing to see here. That's what makes it stink.

[Tara Palmeri]

That is exactly what happened, Jim. They loved the conspiracy theory. They loved it until it went after, until the beast went after them and they made their biggest followers into props. They looked like fools outside of the White House holding up binders that said classified.

[Jim Acosta]

Remember that?

[Tara Palmeri]

Documents were public documents which I've gone through. We, you know, like, like I said, they're on the fb, they are on the vault. If you have time, which by the way, will take you weeks and weeks, you can go through all of these documents that they were holding up saying they were classified. They're mostly Virginia Roberts. They're mostly her case documents. She's a big part of the reason that. And that Glenn Maxwell is in prison right now and so many others. I just. Yeah. When the monster came after them in the form of Elon Musk, I mean, that really. I think this is what really set it off. Elon didn't go after Trump and say, you're in the files. We wouldn't be here right now.

[Jim Acosta]

Fascinating. And now Elon wants to start this whole party thing, this America party thing, which I thought you and I would get into, but you have to go. I know you have very limited time because now you're very much in demand. Always doing great reporting. Tara, thank you for giving me some of your time. I know you're in a much funner place than D.C. so I owe you one big time, so thank you.

[Tara Palmeri]

No, no, no. And I, I, I, I. This is important to me. And this is, like, one of the few stories where I would jump off and say, I want to jump in here, because I don't think I'm speaking for myself. Like, I think I'm speaking for the women been totally let down by the government. I talked to Virginia Roberts the day that Pam put out those binders, and I said to her, what do you think about that? And she said, I'm so disappointed. Elon and her, they were messaging. She believed that President Trump and Elon Musk would dig back into this case for her, for the survivors. And she was so disappointed by it, but she was always hopeful. And it's like a. Making a mockery of their pain in a lot of ways. And so it is.

[Jim Acosta]

They've been used. They've been used is what's happened.

[Tara Palmeri]

They have been used so many times in their lives. Their lives. Totally. It's disgusting. And I hope. I don't know. I hope there's some justice.

[Jim Acosta]

Well, great work, Tara, as always, and thank you for staying on it. And as soon as there's another big development, I'll bug you again. So thanks for your time.

[Tara Palmeri]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Always happy to jump on with you, Jim.

[Jim Acosta]

I'll let you get back to your spritzes. All right, take care.

[Tara Palmeri]

Okay, bye.

[Jim Acosta]

Thanks, Tara. All right. That's Tara. Paul Berry, great reporter, always does a great job. And, I mean, working on a powerful story. The story has been supercharged, I think, with, like, jet fuel in terms of what the DOJ tried to do in the last 24 hours. Trying to sweep it under the rug just a, you know, week or two. What has it been since Elon Musk raised this prospect on social media. And I, you know, I know I saw some messages coming in from our viewers saying f elon. And so I get it. I'm not saying don't say that. You know, everybody's pissed off at Elon Musk, including the White House. But I have to say it is damn peculiar that the DOJ came out with this memo and these videos and all this stuff to sweep this under the rug shortly after Elon Musk put this out there and announced the creation of this, this new political party and so on. Speaking of things being swept under the rug over a Fourth of July weekend, the other thing that happened late last week that pissed me off to just no end, and now that Tara's off, I'm going to start cursing again, is the Paramount buyout payoff, I should say, of the Trump settlement of the Trump lawsuit that was aimed @ CBS in 60 Minutes. As you saw late last week, Paramount settled the case. You know, they claim that they didn't apologize for anything. But of course, you read into how this all went down. And of course, it looks like they essentially paid a bribe to the president of the United States to make this lawsuit go away, to grease the skids for this media deal that they're trying to execute here in the coming months. And they basically saw this as the price of doing business. And one of the reasons why people put stuff out over 4th of July weekends is so they can sweep things under the rug and so on. And so folks are at the beach and they're not paying attention and that kind of thing. And it is so blatant, as someone just saying a few moments ago, it is so blatant. And so I didn't want to let go of it. And so I'm going to bring in Nico Perino, who is with a First Amendment group here in Washington. And I just want to make sure that I've got him here ready to go. So stand by as I bring him into the conversation. But I just did not want to let this one go, folks. To me, this is existential. This is about our democracy. This is about the American way of life. You can't have institutions like cbs, even though it's its parent company, paying what is essentially a bribe to the president of the United States after ABC did it at the beginning of this new Trump administration. And so bringing in Nico Perino. He is with a. And I think he's coming in right now. There's Nico right there. Nico, great to see you. Hey, thanks for coming on. Really appreciate it.

[Nico Perino]

Of course Jim, happy to be here.

[Jim Acosta]

And Nico, you're with the Organization of Fire, a foundation for individual rights and expression. And if I was just reading this correctly about you, Nico, you also host a podcast on some of these very issues and what you do. And, you know, maybe you don't want to pop off to the extent that I've been popping off, but maybe you do. But when you saw the Paramount settlement late last week, you know, as I was saying during a Fourth of July weekend, people are out of town, they're not paying attention to the news. It just stinks. And to me, it's so much more than, oh, they paid off a Trump lawsuit. They paid a settlement in a Trump lawsuit to get it to go away. It's so much bigger than that.

[Nico Perino]

Yeah, it is. We've been surprised by the scope, scale and severity of the Trump administration's attacks on free expression in the second term. I mean, we dealt with a first Trump administration, right, and the attacks were there. But the scope, scale and severity of the second administration are unlike anything that we have seen. And we weren't totally surprised to see the settlement from Paramount in this case. They'd been signaling that it was going to happen for a long time. Sherry Redstone, the owner of Paramount, had signaled that she wanted it to happen. You saw Bill Owens, the executive producer of 60 Minutes, talk about how for the first time in his three decade career at 60 Minutes, he felt like the suits up top, so to speak, were telling him and his team to soften up their coverage. And we had seen pressure, not just from this lawsuit that was filed in Texas by President Trump. And I should urge your listeners to check that out. It's a consumer fraud lawsuit. It's not a defamation lawsuit. It's not an election interference lawsuit. A lot of people have been saying, oh, this is election interference. This is election interference. This is defamation. It's none of the sort. It's consumer fraud. Consumer fraud is the sort of thing where you have, you're selling a used car and you're rolling back the odometer. Right. It's not news coverage. But President Trump has been putting on pressure outside the courts of law as well, including through the fcc, the Federal Communications Commission, through his chair there, Brendan Carr, who, when Brendan Carr was just a regular, had a regular seat on the fcc. He was very good on these free speech issues, talked about how the FCC stands in the shadow of the First Amendment, so to speak. And they can't use it as a cudgel to police the news or to police the Internet. But now you have Trump on Truth Social talking about how Brendan Carr needs to impose maximum fines and punishment on CBS for this Kamala Harris segment. And Brendan Carr is the guy who's walking in to administrative meetings wearing a gold lapel pin with Trump's face on it. So it's ridiculous. If you're, if you, if you're the general counsel or you're counsel to CBS or Paramount in this case, what do you think your chances at a fair shake is going to be?

[Jim Acosta]

It's like he's the minister of Information and a, in a dictatorship is basically how he's operating.

[Nico Perino]

Yeah, it's sort of a Maoist tactic. The Dear Leader. Let's wear the, the face of the Dear Leader on. Yeah, on our, on our clothes. And you had Brendan Carr get asked about this. I think it was with Semaphore. And it was Ben Smith, I believe. And Ben Smith said, you're doing the same things that you criticize the Democrats for doing. What gives? And he said, well, Democrats set this precedent. Now we're just following it. That's an excuse. That's an excuse.

[Jim Acosta]

It's also bullshit. The Democrats didn't do that. I mean, the Democrat, I mean, Barack Obama wasn't filing lawsuits against major media companies and that sort of a thing. And I just, you know, to me, I find this to be, to be just very disturbing because you not only have the CBS case, you have the ABC case that happened earlier on this year. That's two of the three major broadcast networks that, you know, folks who are my age grew up with in this country. You know, Fox sort of came along in the 80s and 90s. And, you know, to me, it of course, is not a stretch that you would have viewers who consume, you know, these newscasts over there wondering whether or not they're on the up and up when it comes to covering the presidency because they've already, like as you mentioned, Bill Owens, the EP of 60 Minutes stated very publicly that he was feeling corporate pressures. Wendy McMahon stepped down as the president of CBS News. People at CBS News did not want this to happen. The people at 60 Minutes did not want this to happen, but the parent company did it anyway. And you just have to think that Trump has these notches on his belt and he's just going to go down the list of other. He's just going to keep going. And that's the whole problem with this, is that, and I think you may have put this in your state, your organization statement is that it creates sort of a reward and Incentive structure for this nonsense.

[Nico Perino]

Yeah. Behavior that gets rewarded gets repeated. And so the capitulation here by cbs, I think is going to lead for more pressure tactics, more jawboning. That's a phrase that was in vogue during the Biden administration when they were pressuring social media companies, defense. And then the Trump on his first day in office signs an executive order to oppose jawboning saying we're not going to use the federal government to weaponize censorship. Then you have this happen. It's even worse than jawboning in this case. The thing about the 60 Minutes settlement that is so mind boggling is not just the settlement, it's just everything that happened within that 24 hour period relating to free speech in the First Amendment. So you get the announcement on Friday or Thursday, I forget what day it was that they were going to settle for $16 million with Paramount. The same day you have Trump outside on the White House long threatening a private citizen with prosecution or getting dozed for criticizing the bill in Congress. This is Elon Musk. You know, he's not.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah, he's going after Elon Musk. Exactly.

[Nico Perino]

Yeah, he's a private citizen. He's threatening his doge for criticizing a bill in Congress. This is core First Amendment protected activity, political speech. And he's going out there and flagrantly threatening a private citizen for doing so. That same 24 hour period, you have him and Kristi Noem targeting CNN. You know, Kristi Noem says they're going to threaten to prosecute or they're going to look into prosecuting CNN for reporting on an ICE reporting app. This is an app that lets people know where ICE is. I mean, it's kind of like your Google Maps or your Ways app that tells you where police are on the road. It's no different. You can report factual information on where law enforcement is, just like you can report factional information about the intelligence reports about relating to Iran. Those were actual reports put out by the, the intelligence agencies. Trump might disagree with them, but reporting on them is factual. You can.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah. And we haven't even. No. And we haven't even talked about the Associated Press and what's been going over at the White House. I mean, I can speak from my own experience when they took my press pass away during the first Trump administration, that was going after an individual journalist. Yes, they were going after my company at the time. And yes, they were trying to put a chilling effect on the press corps in the White House. By and large, that's all true. But I mean, I thought this was a very chilling precedent when we saw the White House go after the Associated Press very early on in this administration. And up until this point, they really have not had, I mean, there's been a judge, I think, that has agreed with the Associated Press here and there. But, I mean, the Trump administration still has the ability, if I'm not mistaken, to continue to do this kind of, you know, they sort of running the show when it comes to the White House press pool and so on. And that is a very damaging set of events. I mean, it's just a very damaging series of events to take place. Because if you can't have the press in charge of who covers the President of the United States, then we don't really have a free press in this country.

[Nico Perino]

Yeah. So the district court in that Associated Press case ruled in favor of the Associated Press. Then it got up to the D.C. circuit where the D.C. overturned the district Court.

[Jim Acosta]

Right, Exactly.

[Nico Perino]

Wrongfully. So I hope the Associated, the Press appeals up to the Supreme Court and we get this question in front of the justices. But let's recall what that case was about. That was because the Associated Press refused to use Gulf of America as part of its editorial standards. You know, they said, okay, we're going to change the name of the Mount McKinley. We're going to call it Mount McKinley because that's within the territorial, you know, borders of the United States. But we're not going to call Gulf of America Gulf of America because it's an international body of water bordering multiple countries and only the United States recognizes.

[Jim Acosta]

Right.

[Nico Perino]

That's an understandable editorial standard. Do it for Martin McKinley. We're not going to do it for Gulf America. And because the Associated Press, as your listeners may know, has one of the most widely used style books in the news industry, the Trump administration.

[Jim Acosta]

That's how I was raised in this business. I, you know, I, when I first started in this business, editor threw the AP style book at me and said, memorize this. I was like, okay.

[Nico Perino]

When I was a journalism student, one of the most prestigious internships you could get was with down Dow Jones. And you had to take an AP style book test, or maybe it was a Dow Jones, but there was a lot of overlap between the two of them. Yeah, you had to learn the style book up, upwards and downwards. And because they wouldn't change the style, they wouldn't stop using Gulf of Mexico, they got booted from the White House press. Well, very blatant viewpoint, discriminate discrimination. You either agree with the administration, you use its words and phrases that it prefers.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah.

[Nico Perino]

Or you're going to risk punishment of the First Amendment.

[Jim Acosta]

And I'm so glad the Associated Press decided to fight this case. And I just, to me, it underlines how shameful it is that Paramount settled that case. And if we can talk about that a little bit in that abc, Paramount, they just see this as the price of doing business. And what makes it even more disturbing in the Paramount case is because they see a media deal coming up. And what's concerning about that is that there are other media companies that have their own media deals coming up. And it just makes you wonder how much pressure is being brought to bear on these news organizations via their parent companies. Because Trump has figured out, okay, I have a pressure point here. I just have to push on that pressure point and I can get the desired response. And to me, that's scary shit because A, he can control what is reported in terms of the news coverage. He can get things softened down and balance. We're never going to know about it unless somebody on the inside of one of these news organizations says, aha, yeah, I got a call from an executive producer who got a call from the president who said of the news division who said, don't do this, do that, because we're hearing from the White House. It's just, it's a very opaque situation.

[Nico Perino]

Yeah. And as you, as you mentioned, Paramount wanted to merge with Skydance Media and. Yeah. And it needed FCC and other regulatory approval to do so. And here I think they made the calculated choice to say the cost of doing business here is $16 million to get this, this deal through. Remembering, of course, that the Trump lawsuit was in his personal capacity. Right. So here you have a president in his personal capacity suing a news organization on a claim that everyone in the First Amendment community views as frivolous, that news organizations in any other circumstance would have continued to fight, feeling like they need to settle in order to do business in this country. That's how you do business in a banana republic. That's not how you do business in the United States of America. And I will also say Trump is going after his critics, like the New York Times that reported what I just said, that the First Amendment community thinks this is a bogus, baseless lawsuit. They threatened to go in after him or after the New York Times with a tortious interference claim. So it's all they just make up.

[Jim Acosta]

And they make up all of these legal machinations and legal methods that they think. And Trump talked about this during the 2016 campaign that he wanted to redo the libel laws, I think is the way he described it in this country. And so essentially that's what he's been able to do by extracting these concessions from places like I call them bribes from ABC and cbs. He's basically, he's kind of sort of rewritten the libel laws himself because he's been able to extract these concessions from these companies and affect their behavior. I mean, he's forced out the President of CBS News. And all of this just makes me wonder, couple that with what he's done to the Associated Press, the fact that he continues to refer to the press as fake news, the enemy of the.

[Nico Perino]

People and so on.

[Jim Acosta]

A lot of organizations like yours, Nico, you know, that come out with the color coded maps that show press freedom is this way in this part of the world and press freedom is this way. And if you're a dark purple like Scandinavia, you have the free press, you're good to go, you're all set. If you're in these orange colored countries, maybe not so much. It seems to me we have to reassess. I'm not saying your organization does that, but it seems to me we have to reassess what we have in this country. It seems to me we don't really have, what, a bona fide free press anymore. If the President has this kind of leverage over these very large media companies, which is basically the infrastructure that we have right now predominantly to get information to people in this country, is that, am I way off base here?

[Nico Perino]

Well, if the idea is that you have to sing the President's tune in order to do business as a media company in this country or to get access to the President in this country, I think you have a grave threat to the free press. And going back to Thomas Jefferson, when asked if he would rather have, you know, a government or a free press, he said, I'd rather have a free press than a government. I mean, that's a founding principle of the United States. The United States was founded in many ways by pamphleteers arguing it out and debating the political issues of the day. The Federalist Papers, the anti Federalist papers, Common Sense, written by Thomas Paine, anonymously, was serialized in newspapers and pamphlets throughout the country. It's, I think, still the most selling document in United States history by like proportion to the population or something like that. So it's deeply chilling. And you're right. I mean, the defamation laws have held largely, but what the Trump administration is doing is using these other, these other tools, these other regulatory authorities and the power of the office.

[Jim Acosta]

Yes.

[Nico Perino]

And all the headaches that he can and his administration can create people to effectively circumvent the very strong defamation laws that we have in this country. And what he is doing, you'll recall he came into office saying we're going to have a golden aid for free speech. He came into office and many people voted for him because they were concerned about the efforts to police.

[Jim Acosta]

Ms. Just like his golden phones and his golden fragrance, too, I guess. But anyway, I don't mean to interrupt.

[Nico Perino]

No, no, no. But what I'm saying is there was a concern about misinformation and how the left was policing misinformation. And I think there are valid concerns that the left went too far in policing mis and disinformation. I always worry about there being some sort of ministry of truth in government. But now what is he doing? He's just rebranding misinformation as news distortion or consumer fraud and weaponizing the courts to go after his political enemies. It's no different than what you might see on the left.

[Jim Acosta]

And I will say I saw Gavin Newsom decide he was going to file a lawsuit against Fox. I get it. Maybe Gavin's, I should say, the governor is trolling people on the far right and so on, and he's trying to have a little fun with the FOX News crowd and that sort of thing. I don't think any but these are guys being talked about as a presidential candidate in 2028, I don't think somebody on the Democratic side of the aisle should be doing that because it sort of normalizes it. And then it becomes like, okay, you know, this administration, they're going to sue fox. The next administration, they're going to sue msnbc. To me, the principle should come first, and that is we are the United States of America in large part because of the free press. I mean, I'll throw out a quote, too. Walter Cronkite used to say, and I might get this a little bit wrong, that free press is not just important to democracy, it is democracy. It is democracy. And if you take it away, then what's to say we're just not going to have sort of an arms race of presidents going after opposing viewpoints in this country. I don't see it as a I wish the governor would change his mind on that. I'll confess my unpopular opinion here. Maybe there are folks on the left who like that he did that. I don't think it's a good idea.

[Nico Perino]

No, you gotta stand on Principles. Jon Stewart once had this great line that if you abandon your principles when the going gets tough, they're not principles, they're hobbies. And that's a good point. We don't want to be free speech hobbyists. We don't want to be free press hobbyists. We need to stand on these principles even if our ideological opponen are willing to go to the gutter and abandon them themselves. I will say yes. I mean, I'm not here to hold water for the press. I think it does great work. Sometimes it falls short. Often when it does fall short, the nice thing about it is that it will correct itself if it is reputable, that you see corrections on all these major daily newspapers. But as was said during the McCarthy era on one of the big national broadcasts, we are not descended from fearful men. One of the jobs of the free press is to hold those in power account. The McCarthy era and its persecutions ended because the press stood up. It finally decided that it was going to grow a backbone and then it was going to call out the McCarthy hearings and it was going to call out the persecution of people alleged to be communists or sympathizers.

[Jim Acosta]

Well, and part of that is because during that period, I mean, I know I worked at CBS News many years ago in the early 2000s, and there were old enough folks there at the time who explained to me, you know, Jim, it wasn't always the case that you had these giant corporations own places like CBS and make our lives a living hell and got in the way of us doing the news. There was a time when you had people like Cronkitenburg and those guys just decided what the news was. They just did. And I'm not putting them up on a pedestal. I guess maybe I am putting them up on the pedestal a little bit. But I sure as hell trust Dan Rather and Walter Cronkite way more than I trust Sherry Redstone. That's for damn sure. And my question is now is that, and I've written about this, is whether the system that we have for delivering information in this country is essentially broken. You have newspapers like the Washington Post, owned by Jeff Bezos. They're afraid to put out an editorial right before the election endorsing Kamala Harris. I mean, that is a crock right there. You have these media companies that are just going. Just completely bending the knee to Donald Trump. And do we need something more like the BBC in this country? I mean, to me, where you stand up public broadcasting to the extent that it can't be monkeyed with by these, you know, bad faith people in D.C. i'm trying my best to not use curse words with these two very thoughtful guests today. But Nico, your thoughts on that? Nico? Because I get fired up about this. Cause I've worked in this business and to me the business is, is largely broken. It's just broken.

[Nico Perino]

Yeah, well, I mean, you do have institutions like Substack right now which have taken a strong stand in support of free speech principles. We're working with them to present.

[Jim Acosta]

Hey, I love these guys, you know, here I am, you know.

[Nico Perino]

Yeah, no, we're working with Substack right now to offer representation to writers who might face targeting or persecution from the administration. So Substack's a great new media outlet for folks who willing, who want to stand up for free speech principles. I do worry about state sponsored or state funded media. I mean, you're seeing right now, even with the funding of PBS and npr, the administration trying to defund them. So if you're standing these up to prevent the administration from monkeying around with the news business. Well, the monkeying around is already happening with those institutions that do have some connection to the federal government. So I'm not sure that's the right approach. Although I think you need to have a multiplicity of approaches. But the main approach you need is.

[Jim Acosta]

I just think right now, like pbs. You know, when I watch PBS here and Washington, I don't mean to interrupt, but I, I get passionate about this when I watch. And I love PBS. I love WTA, I love public broadcasting, love NPR. But when PBS has to air the BBC at 5 o' clock in the evening before the, the news hour comes on at 6 o', clock, it's partly because they don't have the resources to put on multiple hours of news over a pbs. And they should, for God's sake. I mean, it doesn't have to be like, you know, a carbon copy of what they do at the BBC. But my, I wish they were just. I wish they were a bit more robust in this country, but. I didn't mean to interrupt, but thank you.

[Nico Perino]

No, no, no. I didn't have much more to say other than, you know, as I see a number of your viewers commenting right now. Support NPR and PBS if that's the media that you like. We got into this trend over the last four decades where we could just expect our news for free. Again, Substack is helping to create that subscription model. I'm a subscriber to pbs. I love its document documentaries. My wife and I watch them before we go to bed. I'm watching one on Hannah Arendt right now. I just got done watching one on William F. Buckley. It would have been his hundredth birthday.

[Jim Acosta]

Oh, I gotta watch that one. That looks great.

[Nico Perino]

Yeah, yeah. It was done by this director, Brock Goodman, who I really like. He did a documentary on Woodstock, which was absolutely fantastic. So I urge your listeners to check all that out. But support the media that you enjoy. Support the media that you appreciate. But the larger principle here, Jim, is that we need to support the rights of the press and we need to support the rights of individuals to speak freely. And it's not just, and this is the most important point, it's not just those people that we agree with the news outlets that we might agree with, for example, like CBS or like CNN or like your news outlet that you're starting up here. It's. We also gotta defend the rights of those we might vehemently hate. So you mentioned Gavin Newsom suing Fox News. Let's stand up for Fox News at that point. Let's stand on principle, and then we won't get called hypocrites down the line. If we like these democratic values, if we appreciate these democratic values, if we think, like Thomas Jefferson, that a free press is essential to this country, then we need to stand by it. I see people saying, there is no supporting FOX News, no Fox News. I get it, folks, I get it. But the civil libertarian. The Constitution rests on neutral principles. The same rights that FOX News enjoys are the same rights that CNN enjoy enjoys. And if we only defend them for CNN and we don't defend them for Fox, then we undermine the values of those rights.

[Jim Acosta]

No, I totally agree with you. And I think Jesse Waters and Greg Gutfeld and those guys are completely full of shit. I mean, they're just completely full of shit. And they're not news people. But I will say I don't want them to be sued and gone after by the President of the United States. Now, if, you know, Dominion Voting wants to sue Fox because they've been defamed, hey, that's, you know, as we saw during the, during the 2020 election, you know, debacle, conspiracy theory debacle that we saw with all of that, that's the free market at work here. But Donald Trump, the President of the United States, doing this sort of thing, to me, it's just. It's just patently un American. It's just un American on its face. It's not who we are as a country. And we've. And these big Companies like Paramount and Disney have contributed to the weakening of this country. And the way I look at it, I mean, to me it's just objectively looking at it. It is what it is, you know.

[Nico Perino]

Well, the ABC case is interesting. I see some of your listeners saying discuss any difference you see between CBS and abc. In the ABC case, folks might recall George Stephanopoulos mentioned that Trump was found liable for rape. And in New York state law, he was actually found liable for. I think it's called sexual abuse. It's not exactly. Yeah, it's a weird sort of liability. But apparently the one of George Stephanopoulos producers told him before he went on air that he, Trump, was found liable for sexual abuse and not rape. So I think they're probably a, a more colorable defamation claim that you have.

[Jim Acosta]

There because although there was a, there was not to get, not to start splitting hairs and dancing on the head of the pin. But there was a judge. I think the judge in that case had also weighed in on whether it met the legal definition of rape. And there was just sort of anyway not to go down that route.

[Nico Perino]

No, that's true. The judge had weighed in and said, and said, you know, colloquially, more or less colloquially, this would have been called rape. But in under New York civil law, and this is a civil case, not a criminal case.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah, I'm not here to defend George or any of those things. You know, just to me, when you have these companies one after another doing what they've done. I know Donald Trump, I covered him. I know exactly what he's thinking.

[Nico Perino]

He's thinking he's one of your biggest fans, Jim.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah, he's one of my big. But he's just think he's thinking, I can keep doing this. I'm gonna keep doing it because, look, I got away with it the ap. I got away with it with abc. I got away with it at cbs. I don't like what they write, I don't like what they say. And look at the way he went after Natasha Bertrand, my former colleague. They go after people for essentially telling the truth. And when it's something he doesn't like. And he admitted to Lesley Stahl at one point, I call it fake news because I just want people to not believe what the press is saying. And he just sees it as part of business. He has no regard for the press or the First Amendment or this thing that I like to call the American way of life. But Nico, great conversation. Really appreciate you coming on. And please check out. Nico, are you on substack yourself.

[Nico Perino]

Yes, I am. So the podcast that you had mentioned at the top, so to Speak, the Free Speech podcast, which I've been doing for almost a decade now, it's hard to believe I didn't know those wonderful free speech topics that you could talk about over a decade. But yeah, my podcast, so to Speak, the Free Speech Podcast, is on substack, so folks can check it out there. The organization is the foundation for individual rights and expression, the fire dot org. We've been at this for 25 years, mostly on college campuses for most of our history. And then in 2022, we expanded off campus. But a lot of that time was spent defending conservatives on college campuses when they were getting censored because the, remember that. Yeah. The users of censorship.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah. And now they want to go after progressives for having points of view they don't like. And if that progressive has a documentation issue, immigration documentation issue, they're going to try to kick you out of the country.

[Nico Perino]

Yes. Yeah. If you, because of your viewpoint, if you write an op ed, if you're a mess, Oz Turk at Tufts University, you write an op ed calling for your university to defund from Israel, your visa's on the line, you could get kicked out of the country. Now, fortunately, the court stepped in there and she's still in the country, but that's the risk. And so we joined arms with conservatives over the last decade when we saw a conservative censorship on campus. But now we've lost a lot of allies, donors, friends, because we're willing to call a spade a spade and say the Trump administration is doing some of the exact same things we saw on campus. And they're doing it at scope, scale, and severity, using the power of the federal government in a way that we haven't seen before. We didn't even talk about Harvard, but we could go long on what's happening.

[Jim Acosta]

Man, I'm ready. We'll do it again. Nico. And did I say your last name correctly? Does it sound like one of my favorite beers out there? Is it?

[Nico Perino]

Yeah. Peroni. I love Peronis. Yeah. I think the Italians would pronounce my last name Perino, but Nico.

[Jim Acosta]

Oh, okay. Very good. Well, Nico, great, great to have you on. Thank you so much. Really appreciate it. And, and thanks for tolerating my dad jokes as well. But thanks for the time and for standing up for what you do. We appreciate it.

[Nico Perino]

My wife is 40 weeks pregnant. I've got two kids.

[Jim Acosta]

Oh, wow.

[Nico Perino]

We're on the way. So I, I, I have a, my fair share of dad jokes as well. You.

[Jim Acosta]

You better get going. All right. Thanks, Nico. Best and best of luck. Congrats to you. Take care. All right, that's Nico with the foundation for Individual Rights and Expression. Check him out here on on Substack as well. I didn't doing a podcast for a decade. I know you've been doing it for some time, but way to go. Defending the First Amendment and free speech for all of that time. I'm just about at the end of my hour, but I do want to say, I do want to thank Tara, Paul, Mary, if folks who are just tuning in, I just saw some names at the bottom of the screen for folks who were just tuning in at the end of this. I started a little bit early today because Tara, I won't say where she's traveling, but she's traveling and she could only do it at this time. And I thought it was just so important to get on this Epstein story because to me, I think we've got the tiger by the tail. Something is going on with this Epstein story. And when they leak something out over 4th of July weekend, ladies and gentlemen, I can just tell you, because I worked at that white house, the big house down there on Pennsylvania Avenue for seven and a half years, when they put that kind of stuff out there over a holiday weekend, something's going on and something smells a little fishy. And typically with Trump, when there's smoke, there's fire. And so we're gonna stay on top of that story. We're not gonna let them sweep it under the rug. And I know Tara Palmeri is definitely not gonna let them sweep it under the rug. She's been all over that like a pit bull on steroids. So hopefully she's enjoying her vacation. But I do really appreciate her jumping on. And that is why I went ahead and rejiggered the schedule today. And my thanks to Nico as well. To talk about free speech, the other thing I do wanna say, and it's the end of the show and I'm going to get into this war tomorrow. I'm hoping to have Olivia Troy on with me to talk about this. She's from Texas, but NBC was just reporting within the last hour that the death toll rose to at least 88 across six counties in Texas. In Kerr County, Texas, officials reported 75 deaths, including 48 adults and 27 children. There is a flash flood, flood watch in place for San Antonio, Austin and kerr county until 7pm local time. And so even though they've had this horrific tragedy in central Texas over The last few days there's more flooding on the way. And I know there's been this whole discussion about the cuts, the Doge cuts at noaa, the National Weather Service, whether or not that played some part in this. Obviously, you know, what's been going on at the state level. There is so little time left in the show and I don't have an expert guest with me right now to jump all over this, but I definitely want to jump all over this tomorrow. So come back tomorrow, we'll talk about this more tomorrow. But at the very least, I just want to say, as the father of a daughter, I have really struggled and I'm going to try to keep together. I've really struggled all weekend long with this story to see so many little girls just, just swept away in that, in those awful flash floods. So I'm going to end it right there and just say, I know folks want to, you know, get to the bottom of things from a political standpoint, a policy standpoint, and try to get to the bottom of, you know, who did what, where. And for tonight, if you can, just think about these families, think about what they're going through. Don't think about if it's a blue state or red state or if they're MAGA or not maga. If I could just make an appeal, personal appeal at the end of this, let's just be above that. Let's just be above that. When these kinds of things happen. Let's just be above that. And yes, we will get to the bottom of all of this and who screwed up and who did what, when, where and how. And yes, this absolutely underlines the need for federal emergency response. You have to have a FEMA in this country because these kinds of climate related, potentially climate fueled events are gonna continue to happen in this country. So you have to have federal disaster response in this country. You also have to have scientists who are monitoring storms. I mean, we all trust our local weatherman. A lot of the information that the local weatherman gets is from federal meteorologists and federal climatologists. And so I don't wanna get into all that at the end of this show because I wanna talk about some of these issues tomorrow and we don't wanna when it's something of this magnitude. But I did want to say at the end of this show how very, very sorry I am to all those wonderful families in Central Texas. I spent several years working in Texas as a local reporter in Dallas. I think I've talked about that before, had lots of assignments in Central Texas. I covered a couple of floods in Central Texas. The flooding, the flash flood threat in that part of the state. State can be just absolutely devastating and very scary and frightening to live with. And so that also underlines the need to have, you know, the kind of expertise behind the scenes in your local National Weather Service offices, your local NOAA offices to make sure that, that there are proper warnings getting out to the public when these kinds of storms are making their way through. But at the very least, policy, policy to the side, politics to the side. Please spend a few moments and just, you know, think about what these folks have been going through. And if you, if you're in the position to help, do what you can to help, because I just, I. I just found that to be just an awful, terrible, horrific situation there in Central Texas. My heart goes out to all of them. And I wanted to just take a few moments to say that at the end of this show. My thanks again to Tara, to Nico, everybody, for watching. I know it's vacation time and 4th of July time and people are on holiday and vacation, they're at the beach and so on. Don't forget, if you missed the top of the show, you can watch the recording later on Substack. You can also watch it on YouTube. You can listen to it on Apple podcasts, wherever you get your podcasts, lots of different ways. But I think Tara's interview is very important because of what has been going on in this Jeffrey Epstein case. Really strange development and the Jeffrey Epstein case, and then also my conversation with Nico about all these First Amendment issues. But in the meantime, still reporting from Washington, I'm Jim Acosta. Thanks, everybody for tuning in. I'll see you next time.

[Tara Palmeri]

Bye.

[Jim Acosta]

Bye.