Texas Democratic Congressman Joaquin Castro and Van Jones

Summary

The Jim Acosta Show: Texas Democratic Congressman Joaquin Castro and Van Jones

Release Date: April 16, 2025
Host: Jim Acosta
Guests: Congressman Joaquin Castro (Texas), Van Jones

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Introduction

In this episode of The Jim Acosta Show, host Jim Acosta welcomes two prominent figures: Texas Democratic Congressman Joaquin Castro and activist Van Jones. The discussion delves into pressing political issues, including the Trump administration's controversial immigration policies, authoritarian tendencies within the GOP, grassroots movements, and the role of universities in resisting governmental overreach.

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1. Immigration and Judicial Overreach

[00:44 - 13:08]
Guest: Congressman Joaquin Castro

Key Discussion Points:

• Kilmar Abrego Garcia Case:
  Congressman Castro addresses the situation involving Kilmar Abrego Garcia, who was deported to an El Salvador prison despite a Supreme Court order for his return to the U.S. Acosta criticizes the Trump administration's failure to comply with judicial directives.

  Castro (02:15): "He's looking to violate more people's constitutional rights in the months and weeks ahead."

• Democratic Legislative Strategies:
  Castro outlines potential legislative actions, emphasizing the Senate's role in blocking President Trump's legislative agenda and imposing sanctions on El Salvador's President Bukele for human rights abuses.

  Castro (03:47): "There should also be a penalty on President Bukele and El Salvador."

• Republican Compliance and Lack of Opposition:
  The conversation highlights the absence of significant pushback within the Republican Party against Trump's policies, raising concerns about the party's direction and commitment to constitutional principles.

  Castro (10:23): "If you look at what's going on, it's the same kind of behavior... falling in line with these unconstitutional things that Donald Trump wants to do."

Notable Quotes:

• Castro (00:44): "This administration admits their error in deporting Kilmar Abrego Garcia but refuses to abide by the court's order."
• Castro (12:56): "He was not lawfully removed from the United States. Correct."

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2. Authoritarianism and the GOP’s Shift

[15:13 - 46:16]
Guest: Van Jones

Key Discussion Points:

• GOP’s Authoritarian Tendencies:
  Van Jones discusses the erosion of constitutional norms within the Republican Party, likening Trump's administration to an autocratic regime. He introduces the concept of the "Neo-reactionary" movement, which aligns with ideologies like the Dark Enlightenment that reject democratic principles in favor of technocracy.

  Jones (18:25): "It's an autocrat way. You cannot say that you are a patriot and support this."

• Historical Parallels and Opposition Building:
  Reflecting on the 2004 Republican dominance under George W. Bush, Jones emphasizes the importance of grassroots organization and persistent opposition in the face of authoritarianism.

  Jones (25:15): "People were starting new groups... just like you see now, all these, you know, hands off rallies."

• Grassroots Movements and the Role of Black Women:
  Highlighting the foundational role of African American women in community building and activism, Jones underscores their significance in the fight against authoritarianism.

  Jones (23:43): "There are so many African American women... they made everything they touched better."

• Academic Resistance to Government Overreach:
  The discussion shifts to universities defying the Trump administration's attempts to control academic content and viewpoints. Harvard's stance serves as a beacon of resistance against authoritarian demands.

  Jones (40:52): "You cannot let the United States government run the... private universities... That is a dictatorship. That is an authoritarian regime."

• Censorship and the American Narrative:
  Van Jones critiques efforts by institutions like the Pentagon and National Park Service to sanitize historical narratives, advocating for an honest portrayal of America's complex history.

  Jones (43:27): "America has always been two things and not one... the founding reality was so unequal... we hold these truths to be self-evident."

Notable Quotes:

• Jones (17:00): "We did not get used to, and cannot get used to, is living in a police state."
• Jones (19:15): "Dark Enlightenment is about technocracy, not democracy. They think that the tech guy should rule directly."
• Jones (28:02): "This is exactly what we went through after that big defeat in 2004... it wasn't overnight."

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3. The Path Forward: Hope and Democratic Resilience

[37:01 - 45:10]

• Empowering Grassroots Support:
  Both Acosta and Jones emphasize the critical role of grassroots movements in sustaining democratic resilience. While Castro advocates for legislative action, Jones stresses the importance of building opposition through organized, long-term strategies rather than seeking instant fixes.

• The Importance of Honest Narratives:
  Jones asserts that embracing both America's flaws and its ideals is essential for national unity and progress. He argues against the polarization that denies any part of America's history, advocating instead for a comprehensive understanding that includes both triumphs and shortcomings.

  Jones (43:27): "What is America? Who are Americans? We are a rainbow people... trying to close the gap between the ugliness of that founding reality and the beauty of that founding dream."

• Call to Action:
  The conversation culminates with a call to maintain hope and continue fighting for democratic values, highlighting the resilience inherent in the American spirit despite current challenges.

Notable Quotes:

• Acosta (31:59): "Shouldn't our courts be standing in the way? I suppose that raises the question of how Trump has been thumbing his noses at the courts."
• Jones (45:10): "I love America, including all that, the harm done to my family... And I love America, too, more than these people who try to tear it down."

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4. Upcoming Town Hall Announcement

In the concluding segment, Acosta announces a live town hall scheduled for later that evening at Theater 555 in New York City. The event will feature a panel including Michael Cohen, Don Lemon, Tara Settmeier, Olivia Troi, Harry Dunn, and comedian Matt Friend. The town hall aims to address important issues, engage with the audience, and provide insightful discussions on the current political landscape.

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Conclusion

This episode of The Jim Acosta Show offers a critical examination of the current political turmoil, highlighting the struggles against authoritarianism and the importance of upholding constitutional rights. Through insightful discussions with Congressman Joaquin Castro and Van Jones, the show underscores the necessity of grassroots activism, honest historical narratives, and democratic resilience in the face of rising challenges.

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Notable Quotes Recap:

• Castro (02:15): "He's looking to violate more people's constitutional rights in the months and weeks ahead."
• Castro (03:47): "There should also be a penalty on President Bukele and El Salvador."
• Jones (18:25): "It's an autocrat way. You cannot say that you are a patriot and support this."
• Jones (17:00): "We did not get used to, and cannot get used to, is living in a police state."
• Jones (43:27): "America has always been two things and not one..."

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Stay Tuned:
Don’t miss the upcoming live town hall on The Jim Acosta Show this evening, streaming on Substack and other platforms. Join in for an engaging and informative session with a stellar panel of guests.

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This summary provides a comprehensive overview of the key discussions and insights shared during the episode, capturing the essence of the conversations and the perspectives of both Congressman Joaquin Castro and Van Jones.

Transcript

[Jim Acosta]

All right. Welcome, everybody, to the Jim Acosta Show. I am live in New York City. I'm at the Theater 555, the site of tonight's live town hall that I'm going to be doing with Michael Cohen, Don Lemon, Tara Settmeier, Olivia Troi, and a special comedian guest bat friend. And gosh, I don't want to forget Harry Dunn, one of our heroes from January 6th who has been fighting the good fight on behalf of all those law enforcement officers who defended the Capitol that day. He's going to be there as well. As you can see with me, right, we've got a lot of news to talk about. And I've got a guest newsmaker guest book today. And that is Texas Democratic Congressman Joaquin Castro. Congressman, great to see you as always. Thanks for coming on.

[Joaquin Castro]

Good to see you. Yeah, great to be with you, Jim.

[Jim Acosta]

And I guess we should just jump right into it because apparently a federal judge in Maryland is expected to question the Trump administration today about its continued refusal. This is, according to the Associated Press, to retrieve Kilmar Abrego Garcia from in El Salvador prison even though the Supreme Court ordered his return to the U.S. i mean, we saw what took place in the Oval Office yesterday. It was obviously very much a dog and pony show. This was a setup. You saw Trump, you saw the El Salvadoran President Bukele, you saw various administration officials, the Secretary of State, Marco Rubio. They're all basically saying, gosh, we're just the United States. What can we do? We can't get him back. It's up to El Salvador. What did you make of all that?

[Joaquin Castro]

Yeah, I mean, it was really chilling to see the president of the United States sit there with this rogue Latin American leader and claim to be absolutely powerless when it comes to getting Kilmar back. And remember, Jim, this is an administration that admitted that he should not have been deported. They admitted their error. It's that they're refusing to abide by a court's order and facilitate his return. And you couple that with the fact that he's said that he wants to send U.S. citizens to this gulag prison in El Salvador. And you see that he's looking to violate more people's constitutional rights in the months and weeks ahead.

[Jim Acosta]

And one of the questions that I get is what can be done about this? What can the Democrats do about this? I mean, the Supreme Court has weighed in and they have said they've gone along with these courts saying that the US has to return Kilmar back to the United States and they're just thumbing their nose at the Supreme Court. And so we're sort of in this constitutional no man's land right now, it seems.

[Joaquin Castro]

Yeah, I think a few things. First, legislatively, I think in the Senate, they obviously have more leverage than we do in the House. And so they ought to use their leverage to basically block the President's legislative agenda and his appointments until they can get the President to follow the Constitution, which he's not doing right now. There should also be a penalty on President Bukele and El Salvador. It's a wonderful country with beautiful people, but they've got a leader now who has gone rogue, who is complicit in human rights abuses. And so we got to make sure that we look at sanctions against President Bukele and his administration. And also I'm going to be funding what's called a resolution of inquiry, which would allow us, it's a privileged resolution which would force a vote at least in the Foreign Affairs Committee on getting the documentation, the agreement between the United States that allows for the Trump administration to be sending people to this prison.

[Jim Acosta]

And we're getting a little interference with your, your signal there, Congressman. I think I'm going to just talk here for just a second, see if we can get it stabilized. But I know that you have met with the wife of Kilmar and I, what I have read about what this family has been going through is absolutely tragic. Apparently they, I read somewhere that they have an autistic son perhaps or a son with, with some special needs and this is no time for the father to be away.

[Joaquin Castro]

No, that's right. I mean, was somebody who a court said should not be deported to El Salvador because of the danger to him and his life. And I mean, this is a working man, like he was a union member, somebody that didn't have a criminal record, who was married and has a 5 year old son who's autistic. And you know, just a few years ago, these were the kinds of folks that even Republicans agreed we ought to give a shot at, you know, putting them down a path to, if not citizenship, at least to being able to get a green card and being able to stay in the United States and to work and to contribute to our economy the way he's been doing. And now all they're doing is marching to Donald Trump's beat. And whatever Donald Trump says he wants to do, that's what Republicans right now are for.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah, I mean, that's the disturbing thing about it. I mean, there seems to be no pushback or very little pushback inside the Republican Party right now. I mean, it says a lot about where the GOP is today as a national political party, especially in light of what Trump has been saying about what he would do with US Citizens. I mean, this is Reuters. Trump on Monday said he wants to deport some violent criminals who are U.S. citizens to Salvadoran prisons, a move that experts say would violate U.S. law. I mean, you know, we shouldn't say experts say it would violate U.S. law. I mean, the Constitution does not allow you to do that with U.S. citizens. And you know, the scary thing about it, he was talking about in this off camera or hot mic moment with Bukele where he was talking about sending the homegrowns out of this country. And it sounds as though it's whoever Donald Trump deems to be a criminal he feels he could just throw out of the country and send down to El Salvador. What's that? I mean, that is absolutely unconstitutional.

[Joaquin Castro]

No, it's wild. It's unconstitutional. You have a president of the United States that has basically gone rogue himself and what he's painted as unsympathetic, Right. Folks who are undocumented. And then he layers on top of that the idea that these are all criminals, which we know now that most of those people, for example, who are deported El Salvador, they had no criminal record. But he lies about that and says that there are criminals. And so there's no reason to think that he's not going to do the same thing with US Citizens, is that perhaps he'll start by trying to send folks who have committed crimes. But then increasingly, it's just a matter of who he likes to tag as a criminal. So every single American should be concerned about the dark path that Donald Trump is taking us down.

[Jim Acosta]

Right? I mean, to me, you know, when the President of the United States, you know, Congressman, you and I have talked about this dynamic on several occasions where things are coming at us so fast, where we're experiencing this all in real time, that it's hard to sometimes take a beat, take a step back and think deeply about what is going on in this country. And to me, one of the reasons why we're having this town hall in New York City tonight is to really drill down on some of these issues because people are rightly freaked out about this. They're frightened about this, this idea that the president can do this. And Trump was in the Oval Office yesterday saying, well, if it's somebody who hits a little old lady over the head or throws Somebody in front of a train. I don't know why he has these violent thoughts in his head all the time. That's a different subject for a different time. But it seems to me there's not much of a leap that you could take, take between that and then just people that you deem to be criminals. And is that overstating things?

[Joaquin Castro]

No, not at all. I mean, I think that is the road we're going down unless we're able to stop this. And it's not just the folks who are public servants, but the American people as well, because. Yeah, he's given every indication that that's exactly what he wants to do, even though it's against the Constitution and against the law.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah. And what. What are your thoughts on. I mean, is there. Is there a way to get through certain administration officials? I'm kind of shocked by the way Secretary of State Marco Rubio has acted in all of this. He is the child of immigrants. His parents are Cuban immigrants who came to this country. But he seemed to be very much toeing the party line. And we saw all of this sort of playing out in the Oval Office yesterday, where all of these Cabinet members. I mean, as much as we'd like to talk about in the first Trump administration, how they would go around the Cabinet table and praise the Dear Leader, I mean, this is Dear Leader on steroid stuff.

[Joaquin Castro]

Yeah. No, I think that. I mean, a few things happen. Number one, the Supreme Court basically took the restraints off of Donald Trump by saying that he couldn't be held liable for official acts. And second, they purged people, both in Congress and in Trump's orbit, of people who cast any doubt on Donald Trump's decisions or really strongly disagreed with him or offered any kind of competing perspective. So they got a bunch of people in there who know the deal. And the deal is Donald Trump is. Is like the Dear Leader. And you can't. Your job is not to give him any kind of competing opinion. It's just to do whatever he says at his whim. And then, you know, and then finally, yeah, I mean, you do have people who have been. Even though I may disagree with them politically or their ideology, who have been respectable public servants who now have just fallen in line with these unconstitutional things that Donald Trump wants to do. And, you know, you know, if you take Marco Rubio, you know, I've respected Marco Rubio service.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah.

[Joaquin Castro]

But at the same time, if you look at what's going on, it's the same kind of behavior. Has complained about Fidel Castro and some of these other Latin American leaders over the years, the kind of behavior that they themselves have committed. He's now part of an administration that is doing some of the same stuff.

[Jim Acosta]

Well, exactly. I mean, I followed Marco Rubio's career for many years. I covered him when he was running for the Senate in 2010 under the Tea Party banner. He was running as a Tea Party Republican back in those days. Very anti Castro, very anti Communist. And I've been to Cuba. I've questioned Raul Castro. They run political prisons in Cuba. They do. I question Raul Castro about that. I think some of these prisons would obviously qualify as a gulag. And Marco Rubio appears to be defending the use of a gulag in El Salvador. And I just. I find that to be hypocritical. And it shocks me, honestly, to see, you know, I guess if it's a. If it's a fascist gulag, that's different than a communist gulag. I don't. I don't know.

[Joaquin Castro]

I think that's right, Jim. I think there has been this idea that has, like, you know, percolated over the years that all bad things, all, you know, all abuses come from leaders on the left, when, in fact, throughout history and throughout Latin American history, for example, we've seen it come from leaders who start on both ends, both the left and the right. And as Americans, as folks in the American government, we ought to be able to stand up to dictators, whether they come from the left or the right. And ultimately, I think that their politics doesn't really matter. It becomes all about them. It becomes about one person, one leader. And you can't help but get the feeling that that's what Donald Trump is trying to achieve in the United States.

[Jim Acosta]

Well, Congressman, it's always great to talk to you. Really appreciate your time. Thanks for stepping in there. And please let us know if anything develops on the front of Kilmar and his family, because I know you're following this situation very closely. A number of other Democrats in Congress are following this situation very closely. And there's a lot of outrage, I know, in the Democratic Party right now as So, I mean, he was not lawfully removed from the United States. Correct. I mean, he. That's just the fact of the matter.

[Joaquin Castro]

And no due process was given. Yeah, that's right.

[Jim Acosta]

No due process is given. And you're supposed to have due process in this country, last time I checked. Well, Congressman, thanks a lot for your time. Appreciate it. Good to see you, sir.

[Joaquin Castro]

Good to be with you.

[Jim Acosta]

All right, thank you. That's Congressman Joaquin Castro from Texas. And you know, that's the thing that I, I have to ask, you know, if the secretary of state would do an interview with me, I'd love to ask him this question. What is the difference between Bukele's sicot prison in El Salvador, which looks like a gulag, walks like a gulag, sounds like a gulag, seems to be a gulag, and the political prisons of Cuba, the country where my father came from, the country where Secretary Rubio's parents came from. And I ask this in all seriousness, in all sincerity, and why is Kilmar there? Why has he been taken there and why is he still being held there if he was unlawfully removed from this country? And Mediaite has a great story on this today. Colby over at Mediaite wrote this story asking what has happened to the influence of the United States. Not long ago, he wrote, the United States was considered a superpower holding immense political and economic sway over its fellow nations. Colby writes, well, that time is no longer. At least that appears to be an absurd conclusion reached by Trump border czar Tom Homan when he was on Fox earlier today. Apparently when he was on Fox, he was saying, well, they say in El Salvador he can't come back, so I guess he can't come back. And Colby over at Mediaite makes a very good point. The United States is supposed to have some sway, supposed to have some influence with some of these countries. All right, I want to bring in Van Jones. I'm so happy that Van is going to be on the show. I'm going to try to get him in here. And again, if you're just tuning in, folks, I am live at Theater555 in New York City. We're going to be doing a live town hall later on this evening with Michael Cohen, with Don Lemon, with Olivia Troy, with Tara Settmeier, with Harry Dunn and the great comedian Matt Friend, and bringing in Van Jones. And there he is. Hey, Van. How you doing, brother?

[Van Jones]

I'm good. I'm so glad to see to see you. Miss you, brother. Love you.

[Jim Acosta]

I miss you, too. It's good to see you. It's a whole new world over here at Substack, and I'm so glad that you're doing this. How are you? How you been? Oh, Van may have frozen up. Van, your Internet connection, it says it is unstable. Are you there, Van? Can you hear me? Oh, all right. I lost Van. Let's try this one more time, folks. You know, as I've told you many times, one of the dangers of this program is that the anchor of the correspondent, yours truly, occasionally has to handle the equipment. And that's what happened there. There's Van. Okay, I think he's coming in.

[Van Jones]

You can hear me, Van?

[Jim Acosta]

I can hear you. I can't see you. This is a little bit like when they put those ladies up in orbit the other day. It's like the blue origin thing. I don't see you there. Are you there?

[Van Jones]

I can see you.

[Jim Acosta]

There he is. The Eagle has landed.

[Van Jones]

All right. And hopefully this will work.

[Jim Acosta]

Fortunately, you and I don't have to parachute down from the outer edges of the atmosphere.

[Van Jones]

I know. Amazing. You know, I know Gayle King very well. I know Lawrence wonderful well. And they're proven that there's no limit for what humans can do. So that's pretty cool.

[Jim Acosta]

Very cool.

[Van Jones]

We need some inspiration for our politics, though.

[Jim Acosta]

No, no kidding. And I'm wondering where you're at, because you and I haven't spoken in a while. We were just saying how much we missed each other. We miss each other. We can say that again. Yes. And I'm glad to have you here. And I'm just wondering what your thoughts are on this moment. I was talking to Joaquin Castro about this a few moments ago. To have the President of the United States in the Oval Office talking about getting deporting U.S. citizens to some crazy prison in El Salvador, it just seems nuts to me. We're used to nuts. We're accustomed to nuts, but we can get used to it.

[Van Jones]

Well, we're not used to this. You know, Trump 1.0 was bad because of the norms that were being broken, but he wasn't as effective. He didn't have people around him who were willing to literally do any damn thing. There were people in there who still believed in the Constitution. There were people in there who believed in due process. There were people in there who took an oath to the Constitution and not to the Man. He decided over the past four years that those people were a problem for America. That was a bug and not the feature of the American system. And that the next time he got in there, he was going to put in a bunch of people who were loyal to the Man. Now, that is not the American way. That is not the American system. So this is a very different thing. We got used to threats and bluster and norm busting, but we did not get used to, and cannot get used to, is living in a police state and if you can snatch people off the streets, deprive them of their liberty with no due process and no recourse. That is not the American way. That's another way.

[Jim Acosta]

The dictator way, the autocrat way.

[Van Jones]

An autocrat way. You cannot say that you are a patriot and support this. This is now. It's a clear dividing line now between the people who are conservatives. Many of my friends are conservatives who believe in the Constitution, who believe in rule of law. They have a different. They want different tax policy than I want. They might have a different view of climate change than I do, but they believe in the American Constitution. The American way versus Neo reactionaries. There is a different movement now in our example. Google that term after this. Don't break away from us.

[Jim Acosta]

We don't do it now.

[Van Jones]

Yeah, don't do it now. But write down nrx. Write down Neo reactionary movement. Write down Dark Enlightenment right down.

[Jim Acosta]

Like that Curtis whatever guy. Curtis Yarvin?

[Van Jones]

Yeah. Yarvin likes Marvin.

[Jim Acosta]

That's some scary shit. I'm just gonna. We can say shit on substack, Van. It's okay. Yes, and apparently JD Vance is into it. Is he? He's into it, right?

[Van Jones]

That's what the reporting is showing. Wired magazine is doing a great job of pointing this out. Again, if you have a conservative friend, you have no problem with that person. Now because a conservative wants to conserve our institutions. Again, they may want different tax policies, they may have a different view of charter schools, but they believe in the Constitution. There is a set of people around this president who do not believe in the US Constitution and they're vocal about it. They just know that we are not going to talk about them because we're going to be talking about policies and bills and budget procedures and the filibuster and all sort of stuff. They are completely outside of that.

[Jim Acosta]

Yes.

[Van Jones]

And J.D. vance has praised this guy, Curtis Yarvin. Curtis Yarvin has a philosophy called the Dark Enlightenment. The Dark Enlightenment is about technocracy, not democracy. They think that the tech guy should rule directly. This is terrible.

[Jim Acosta]

Well, look at how that's going right now. I mean the tech guy, look at Elon Musk and Doge. I mean I think we've already had a test drive of letting the tech guys, the tech bros. Run this country and they've screwed it up pretty badly. I mean, do you really want sending 20 year old kids over to the Social Security Administration and let loose some AI model on those systems over there to sort out who should be getting Social Security checks? That sounds like a really bad idea. I would assume it sounds really bad to a lot of other people out there. But, Van, you know, the other dimension to all of this is that we still have a constitution. And when I was having this conversation with Joaquin, I was thinking about this. You know, I can't imagine a federal judge or a Supreme Court justice going along with Trump's idea. Okay, we're just going to take, scoop up this US Citizen off the street and send them to El Salvador, which is a clear violation of the Constitution. Shouldn't our courts be standing in the way? I suppose that raises the question of how Trump has been and his people have been thumbing their noses at the courts. And what happens then?

[Van Jones]

Well, the shape of the opposition is as follows. As best I can tell, there is a fight in the courts, which is a very important fight. And I think our judges have been doing as good a job as they can be. But the thing is, if you don't believe in our system, you can do more harm in three hours, but then the courts can keep up with in three weeks or three months. And so I think our courts have actually been doing a better job than people I think, had feared.

[Jim Acosta]

That's true.

[Van Jones]

There's a second fight, which is a fight in Congress, which is to try to contain some of the damage. I think people were very frustrated that Senator Schumer let one opportunity go past. I think people were proud that Cory Booker stepped into the breach and tried to use his power. If they all did a filibuster every day, then the whole thing would stop. So, you know, there's. I think we got 40 more senators besides Cory Booker. I wish they would all do it. Then there's this question around communications, making sure that people know what's going on, which you're doing a fantastic job of doing, informing people, empowering people, making sure people can decipher this stuff, because people just get hit upside the head with so many different things over and over again. It's very hard to keep up. So that's.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah. I mean, that to me, is one of the things I love about independent media and doing the substack thing is it really democratizes the flow of information, brings people into the process. Van, you can see these people commenting and setting hearts in your direction to everything. And it's all very cool. And I, but I, and I, something organic, something is coming up from the grassroots in this country. And I don't think it's political. It's political to some extent. It's not left right political. It's not liberal, conservative political. It is very much pro democracy. I really, I really See that. And I think I see Republicans caring about this, conservatives caring about this. You see people at the Bulwark and so on. And I tend to find it to be rather inspiring and reason to have some hope and optimism. Not saying this is a pretty picture. I'm just saying it's not. There is hope.

[Van Jones]

Well, there is hope. And I think some of the things that are happening from the grassroots are, you know, you got a bunch of veterans, you got. Let's just look at the black community for one second. I don't think we've talked about this enough.

[Jim Acosta]

Please.

[Van Jones]

Yeah, there's so many African American women who are my age. I'm in my 50s. When we got out of college, the corporate sector was not that welcoming. Let's just be honest. You're talking about the 80s and 90s, early 2000s. You don't have a lot of black women going to corporate sectors. They were getting college degrees, they were getting masters. Where'd they go? They went to work for government, they went to work for the not for profit sector. And they became the backbone of our families, of our communities. They were the homeowners, they were the voters, they were the churchgoers, they were the mentors. They made everything they touched better. You could name yourself 20 black women who are that I'm describing. Everybody knows what I'm talking about. Those are the people Doge is going after.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah.

[Van Jones]

Those are the people that Doge calls the deep state. People are going after those people. So those women in particular, black women, professional class, black women being doge cut is a double blow because the services they were giving are no longer going to be there. But also now those people who used to be the aunties that everybody relied on in a crisis, now they're in crisis. Yeah, this is, this is, I think, the problem. And so people in the comments keep saying, you know, what can we do? What can we do? Let me tell you something. This is going to take a minute now.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah.

[Van Jones]

Can I just walk people back through a little bit of history?

[Jim Acosta]

I would love that. Please, please.

[Van Jones]

So look, people want an instant answer now because we live in this kind of high tech world of tweets and everything, but it takes a minute to build an opposition. Go back to 2004, when we had a Republican president, George W. Bush, who at the time we thought was the worst. Now I'd vote for him tomorrow, but at the time we thought he was the worst.

[Jim Acosta]

Everybody's like, please bring back George W. Bush. Can we just bring him back and.

[Van Jones]

I'll drive him to D.C. yeah, the beloved.

[Jim Acosta]

So maybe not Dick Cheney, but again, I get your point. Liz Cheney.

[Van Jones]

Yeah. Liz Cheney. Liz Cheney, yeah. And so, but don't forget now everybody forgets their own lived experience. We live through this, brother.

[Jim Acosta]

I agree with you.

[Van Jones]

In 2004, when John Kerry was, was swift, voted, voted and defeated, everybody had thought that George W. Bush was an accidental president, that it was handed to him by Supreme Court. 500 votes in Florida and he was a bozo and a loser. He'd be easily defeated. In 2004, John Kerry, our great hero, was, was crushed and it was a popular vote win. And Democrats, just like now, were reeling, couldn't believe it. Stunned. Now, obviously George W. Bush, nowhere near as bad as Trump. But don't forget what happened. People said, where was our, where's our leader? People said, where's our leader? We didn't have a leader for three and a half years until Barack Obama got the nomination. You didn't have a leader. What you had was a lot of people doing what the folks are on here doing right now. People were starting new groups. People launched the Huffington Post in 2005. Daily coast in 2005.

[Jim Acosta]

Is that when meetups were, people were starting to do those meetups?

[Van Jones]

Well, you see meetups in 2005, I'm.

[Jim Acosta]

Getting up there too.

[Van Jones]

2005, it was meetups. The, the donors got organized. Democracy alliance in 2005. Yeah, there was no leader. There was no one thing to do. People were doing all kinds of things just like you see now, all these, you know, hands off rallies. And this is exactly what we went through after that big defeat in 2004, 2005, people didn't know what to do, but they tried everything. By 2006, we had the House and Senate back. By 2008 we had Barack Obama. But it wasn't overnight.

[Jim Acosta]

That's correct.

[Van Jones]

And so I think the problem that we have is people want an instant fix. And I'm really sorry it's our fault because we didn't. You wind up in this problem that you're facing now and every day you're more and more nervous about it, more and more scared because other people had a long term plan and we didn't.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah, that's so true. You're so right about that. And I remember being out on the campaign trail with Barack obama and in 2008 and you know, there are all the Hillary Clinton folks and mainstream establishment Democrat votes folks saying, you know, Barack Obama, nice guy, seems okay and everything, he's not going to make it he's not going to beat Hillary. And I would go to these rallies and I would say, you know, guys, I. He looks like he could win. I think he's going to win. And then Ted Kennedy comes out and the Kennedy family gets behind Barack Obama, and the whole thing takes off like a rocket. And so I tell people all the time, like, you think that it's curtains and everything's, this is the way it's going to be, and then something happens.

[Van Jones]

Something happens.

[Jim Acosta]

It is kind of the beautiful part of our process that we have in this country, as long as it's not destroyed in the next few years.

[Van Jones]

Right. Well, and so listen, so the threat is much greater for sure. We've never had democracy, has never had an adversary with these intentions and these capabilities in living memory. There are people around Donald Trump, not every Trump voter don't say that. And not everybody, even in the Cabinet, don't say that. But there are people around him that think American democracy has failed and who thinks that the world order that we built for peace and prosperity for 80 years was a bad deal for America. I don't know what they're talking about, but they truly believe this, brother.

[Jim Acosta]

What metric do they point to? What is their evidence of this?

[Van Jones]

They point to the fact that in the Rust Belt, the industrial heartland, people did get screwed. People did get a bad deal. There have been towns that have been hollowed out. But you can't explain to me how going to a Russian model would make it better when the Russians are poorer than we are. Mississippi, on a per capita basis, has more money than the uk so even in our poverty and our misery, we're still better than everybody else. And so, you know, so well, they.

[Jim Acosta]

Want to close the Department of Education. And if you look at federal education dollars going to which states, they're going to a lot of red states, primarily. You know, by and large, they're the largest recipients. I mean, so there's a lot of hypocrisy going on. And I think, Van, to some extent, and I think you put your finger right on it when you talk about the Trump voters and how they shouldn't be demonized. I know there's a temptation to just let them have it, and I get it. I totally understand it. But some of it, and it kind of reminds me of the old Bill Clinton days, the way he could just, you know, Talk for, like, 10 minutes and explain everything, you know, when he was the explainer in chief, and he could talk about, you know, education dollars and which states they're Going to, and you know, the fact that they wanted this new Republican budget that's making its way through the Congress, they want to pass more tax cuts on the backs of programs like Medicaid. And I pointed this out on my program time and again, which would, if you cut Medicaid the way that they're talking about would devastate rural hospitals. Devastate maga America.

[Van Jones]

Yeah, close. Let me tell you other stuff that you know, as you're, you know, everybody, we're all sitting around the same campfire, we're all, you know, worried. But let me just point out some stuff that I don't think we should talk about enough. You talk about this bill coming through. Donald Trump just can't wait to pass this bill that's going to devastate the solar industry, devastate the wind industry, devastate renewable energy. He thinks that's so. Oh, he just can't wait to do it. What he doesn't understand is that he is going to usher in a period of blackouts, brownouts and sky high energy bills in America because the AI companies need and deserve massive amounts of energy to stay ahead of time. Well, guess what? If the AI companies are correct and they say that they, you know, their energy, you count it all up, it's about a 20 to 30% increase in overall energy demand for America.

[Jim Acosta]

That's a great point.

[Van Jones]

That's like putting 20 new states on the grid just for AI companies. Guess what that means? Energy demand is going to go through the roof, which means energy prices are going to go through the roof. My beloved Sam Altman will be able to pay his energy bill, but Grandma will not. Grandma. Yeah.

[Jim Acosta]

No, it's true. And you watch the local news. I don't mean to cut you off, you know, watch local news. There, there are protests about, I don't want this Amazon processing center coming into my neighbor data processing because they gobble up so much energy and they cause a racket for the local community. But you're so right about that. I had not thought about that.

[Van Jones]

Now think about this now.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah.

[Van Jones]

Joe Biden, who I work for honorably in the first term of the Obama administration, came into office saying, I don't want to support fossil fuels, but guess what? In the end, America became the number one fossil fuel exporter because of Ukraine and everything else. Sometimes you come in with one idea and you leave with another. Trump is coming in saying he's against renewable energy, but the only way you can keep up with energy demand in America is to triple down. Now on solar and wind and batteries and geothermal. And so the only thing that can save the solar industry is Donald Trump. The only thing that can save Donald Trump is the solar industry.

[Jim Acosta]

It sounds like you're trying to get the message to him.

[Van Jones]

I'm just, can you get past Stephen.

[Jim Acosta]

Miller is the question.

[Van Jones]

Exactly. My point is that when you have just industrial grade stupid running whole parts of our government, then even Republicans wind up shooting themselves in the foot, like you said, closing their own hospitals, driving their own energy bills up, which gives you the opportunity to talk to your cousin, to talk to your friend from high school, to talk to your co worker. Not about become a better liberal. You need to be a smarter conservative. What are you doing as a conservative?

[Jim Acosta]

What about these tariffs? I mean, hello, every, every Trump rally I've been to is within a five mile radius of a Walmart. Where, where do they get those goods from? Primarily China. So what's the point of this trade war? I mean you, you talked about this earlier. These industrial heartland cities that have been hold out, one of the reasons they got hold out is because of Walmart coming into a lot of these communities across the country. So where did all these folks have to go shopping? When they go shopping, they go to Walmart. And if everything goes up in price at the Walmart, they're not going to be happy. I feel like I'm Glenn Beck drawing on a whiteboard here. Here's the picture of how this works.

[Van Jones]

Hey, look, I mean, I appreciate there's a certain valor the Trump voters are showing when they say they're willing to take short term pain for long term gain. I think there's a certain valor there. I can respect that. The problem is the long term gain ain't coming. That's the problem. If you're going to take a short term hit, pay more prices for a year and then instantly tomorrow all these factories are going to show up. You're going to get great jobs. Then there's a certain valor there. The problem is the factories take a lot longer than that to come. And when they come, they're all robots.

[Jim Acosta]

They're all robots.

[Van Jones]

You're fighting for jobs for American robots, not American workers. You're willing to sacrifice the world order our grandparents built up to onshore American robots, not American worker jobs.

[Jim Acosta]

That's a great point, Ben.

[Van Jones]

So your valor is being wasted on the wrong cause. I'll never disrespect the Trump voters. I'm from rural West Tennessee. These are people I went to high school with, I went to college with. I respect them tremendously, but their valor and their patriotism is worthy of a better cause than this reckless, foolish approach that is only empowering China. When you tear up the whole world, they run away from you into the arms of China, and the gain is not coming. We have to come forward as Democrats with a better option for Americans. The mistake that we made. Let me criticize my own party. Both me and you have never shied away from criticizing Democrats. We were defending a broken status quo that most people did not like by saying, well, if you think you're miserable today, wait till Donald Trump gets in there. Well, that's not a great message.

[Jim Acosta]

Let me ask you this. Since you brought up the Dems, let's talk about the next wave. What do you make of these Bernie Sanders and AOC rallies? Bernie gets 36,000 people in LA, and they go to Utah and Salt Lake City. They get big rallies. There's, you know, no disrespect to Bernie, but it seems to me that you want a younger figure to come forward in the Democratic Party, perhaps like an aoc, but maybe somebody who has more of a national appeal. It just seems like we don't have the right. The Democrats don't have the right puzzle pieces in place on. On the card table at this point. But there's something happening there.

[Van Jones]

Look, I give Bernie a lot of credit. I give AOC a lot of credit. They're bringing. They're bringing hope to people who are miserable, and they're bringing people out. And one thing the authoritarians hate is when you have massive rallies against them. They want everybody scared and hiding in the closet and turning on their neighbors. They don't want people out there, you know, chanting along with Bernie. Now, Bernie is not going to be president. And so that means that there's a big question has to be answered in a couple of years. But Bernie is showing and he's reminding a lot of people, you're not. You're not the one that's crazy, and you're not by yourself. Now, there's another faction that seems to be forming that has a different theory of the case. Ezra Klein has put out this book called Abundance.

[Jim Acosta]

Right. I have it. I'm going through it. Yep.

[Van Jones]

That's. Now, that's different. That's interesting, because what he's saying is that Democrats have shot ourselves in the foot by making it impossible to build anything in a blue state or a blue city. You can't build any housing. You can't build this, you can't build that. And we've got to become a party of the builders again. Now, that's interesting. Now, that could. Look, Bernie will get you to 40%. He's not gonna get you to 51%. Yeah, but, but, but there are other ideas. There. There will be a third way out. There will be people who say, we don't want to defend the status quo and we don't want this crazy stuff from Trump. Somebody's going to come forward with something that is beautiful, that is resonant, that makes sense. But in the meantime, you know, I hope Bernie's rallies go to 50,007.

[Jim Acosta]

Oh, sure. For sure. I think it's cool that they're going out there doing it. I'm glad that people are getting fired up. You know, I used to call it Trump Depression syndrome. You know, what happened after the election, between the election and the inauguration became everybody said, whoa, you know, this is nuts what he's doing here. VAN I did want to ask you one other newsy question, and that is about Harvard becoming the first university to openly defy the Trump administration. This is the AP story as it demands sweeping changes to limit activism on campus. I mean, what the university's lawyers wrote on Monday, the university will not surrender its independence or relinquish its constitutional rights. I know it's not fashionable to say, yay, Harvard, but, I mean, you have to hand it to them for taking that stand. That is not what everybody is doing these days. Of course, the Trump administration said, well, now we're gonna freeze $2 billion in grants and so on. But what is your take on all of this and what these universities are up against?

[Van Jones]

Well, if you saw what they were trying to. What Trump was trying to force Harvard to sign, it was unbelievable. It's basically, the administration was gonna have the right to review everything that they did, everything higher that they made every year for the next four years, and forced them under the domain of viewpoint diversity, to essentially hire the people that Trump told them to hire. Well, first of all, I thought you didn't like diversity. I mean, you literally.

[Jim Acosta]

Exactly.

[Van Jones]

You literally just waged a whole jihad against diversity. And now under the name of viewpoint diversity, you want to essentially take over American universities. And so Harvard, and they were complaining.

[Jim Acosta]

About conservative viewpoints being under attack. Just not to interrupt. But, you know, they did say that forever.

[Van Jones]

Yeah. And so. And so I'm proud of Harvard. You know, I hate saying anything positive about Harvard because I went to another school, but. But I'm proud of Harvard. I'm glad they took the stand. And more should And I hope that more will. You cannot let the United States government run the, you know, private universities and make the private universities hire the people. The president says that is a dictatorship. That is an authoritarian regime.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah. And I guess finally I've had April Ryan on a couple of times, and one of the things that she and I have talked about, it pisses me off, and you almost don't want to give it attention, is the way that they've been doing this over at the Pentagon, trying to scrub various websites, the National Park Service trying to scrub Harriet Tubman from a website about the Underground Railroad. It's just blatant, horrible behavior. And I just, you know, is it even worth talking about, in your view? I feel like you have to talk about it. You don't want to dignify it with a response, but it's just so awful that you have to say something. You and I haven't talked in a long time, but this has been one of the things that has just infuriated me to no end. And I know I shouldn't give them that, but I think.

[Van Jones]

I think it. I think coming from. From somebody with your level of, you know, respect and strength in this country, for you to say it's wrong, I think it matters. I don't think you should underestimate the fact you said that it matters. It. And you're not being black and not being female, even though I know you're Cuban. Cuban American. You sticking up for Harriet Tubman means something. So I appreciate that. But let me tell you this. This may offend some, but go ahead. Some of my friends on the left opened the door unknowingly, accidentally, to this kind of backlash by saying the only stories about America that we can tell are stories about America's deficits, America's failures, America's shortcomings, the birthmarks of Americans origins. And so then here come these other idiots and say, no, no. You can only tell stories about America that make America perfect. Well, hold on a second, guys. You're both. You're both wrong here. Here's how you tell the American story. That's honest. America has always been two things and not one. You had a founding reality that was ugly and unequal according to Thomas Jefferson, not Van Jones, not the woke crowd. Thomas Jefferson. When you go to Jefferson Memorial, it says in marble and stone in the nation's capital. I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just. What is Jefferson talking about? He's talking about the enslavement. He's so afraid that by not dealing with slavery, that God is going to wipe America off the map because the founding reality was so unequal. Now, that is Thomas Jefferson.

[Jim Acosta]

He almost called it, but yeah.

[Van Jones]

Yes. Okay, so, so, so the founding reality, ugly and unequal. Even the founders don't deny that. But in that same memorial, if you turn your head 32 degrees to the right, you'll see also in marble and stone, we hold these truths to be self evident, that all are created equal. That's the founding dream, brother. The founding dream is. That's who we are dream. It's about equality. And so what is America? Who are Americans? We are a rainbow people. Every color, every faith, every gender expression, every kind of human being ever born in one country, trying to close the gap between the ugliness of that founding reality and the beauty of that founding dream. That's what makes us Americans. If you deny the founding reality, you deny America. And if you deny the founding dream and its beauty, you deny America. So you can tell the whole story and it's more beautiful, it's more powerful, it's more compelling, it's more inspiring, it's more galvanizing. When you tell the whole story. No, left wing, don't just put America down, but right wing, you don't do us any favors when you pretend we never made a mistake. It's the fact that we made the mistake and have overcome this far that's inspiring the world. And so, you know, I think we have to be deeper patriots, these cheaper patriots who want to deny the negative and have a cheap, you know, set of. No, no, it's the deeper patriots. I love America, including all that, the harm done to my family. I'm a seventh generation American. I'm the first one born with all my rights in this country, the first one in seven generations. And I love America, too, more than these people who try to tear it down.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah, that's very inspiring, Van. And you and I did that show with Skip Gates on pbs, finding your roots. And it was amazing that you and I were on together. And when I watched your story, it blew me away. And when I think about that and I think about what you're saying right now, you're absolutely right. To love your country means that you love all of our history and how it's brought us to this moment. And that's, I think, where Trump just is never going to get it. He's never going to get it. He doesn't get what makes America great is what got us to this moment. And you can't bury that. And Honor America's greatness. It just. One does not go with the other.

[Van Jones]

Yeah, yeah. Well, listen, I can't tell you how glad I am to get a chance to talk with you more. I hope you have back sometimes. I miss you. I love you.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah, right back at you. Right back at you. Let's keep doing this. Fan. And it was a great conversation. And the way you ended it there, just absolutely spectacular. Absolutely beautiful. The great Van Jones. Great to see you, sir. Thanks so much.

[Van Jones]

All right.

[Jim Acosta]

All right. Good to catch up.

[Van Jones]

You be safe.

[Jim Acosta]

Take care.

[Van Jones]

Bye. Bye.

[Jim Acosta]

All right. That's Van Jones. That was wonderful. I know. And I see people saying right now, more Van Jones, please. I thought that was absolutely spectacular. And Van just sums it up so well. And you know, he brings it every time. And I'm just so happy that he came on with me on this show today. And it's nice to reunite with old friends and former colleagues and so on. And, and that's what we were able to do right there. So here we are, we're in the theater 555 in New York. New York, the city's so nice they named it twice. And later on this Evening at roughly 6:00, we think it's substack. You can't hold us to a specific start time. This is not like watching the Love Boat back in the 1980s or whatever it was on, is it, was it ABC and you had to sit down right at 9:00 at night on Saturday night or you, you missed the opening credit. We're not talking. This is not that. This is not that. This is, it's a little more loosey goosey here. We're hoping everybody's going to sit down right around 6:00. Yeah, the 70s, somebody said the 70. That's true. There's more than seven. Maybe, maybe 80, 81 did it stay on the air. Okay, but it'll be right around 6:00. We're going to get the, the, the, the shrinking violet that he is, Michael Cohen. He's going to be here and that's going to be great. Don Lemon is going to be here. Tara Settmeyer is going to be here. Olivia Troy is going to be here. The great Harry Dunn, one of our heroes from, from the Capitol Police Department, now retired, now fighting the good fight out, out, really trying to change the world. That's what he's trying to do right now. We're going to talk to him about that. And then we have my very special friend, Matt. Friend, the great comedian Master impressionist. He's going to come and just bring the whole house down. Everybody is. We're all going to be doubled over by the time it's over because I've already heard a little bit of what Matt is going to say and it's a good thing we're on substack because I think if I was on my old show, I don't think that would go over well, some of the things that he's planning on saying. So anyway, I don't think we're gonna get in too much trouble, but it's gonna be a lot of fun. We're. We're putting all the pieces together. We think it's gonna be a lot of fun. And we need laughter. So Sonya just said, made the comment we need laughter and really appreciate everybody who's coming here. And. And we're gonna be streaming this on my substack on the Jim Acosta show. We are efforting. Don't hold me to this. We are efforting, efforting. Also having this play on the Midas Touch channel. And so we're trying to put this out to as many platforms as possible. We're testing the bounds of the substack machine, as I like to call it, the little hamster. And the little wheel is spinning furiously to make all of this possible. We'll have multiple hamsters spinning furiously. And the exciting part about all of this is that we're going to be doing this on this platform, which is absolutely. We have a whole crew here. We have a great crew, great guys. My producer Matt is here. His son is here helping out. We're hanging up posters. We're doing this old school. We're doing this guerrilla style. You're going to want to watch this. And yes, after it's over, the plan is for it to be recorded and then it'll go out to Michael, put it on his substack, and Don and Olivia and Tara and whoever wants to put on their substack, put on their substack. We'll have clips. There'll be so many different ways to watch it. It's going to blow your mind. But in the meantime, very, very excited about this. Somebody's asking the time. It'll be approximately 6pm this is why I was talking about the Love Boat earlier, in case you're wondering. Have you started drinking, Jim? No, I have not. Why are you talking about the Love Boat? I don't know. But my point is, is that this is not like old school appointment viewing where if you don't sit down At a specific time, you're hosed. We're gonna 6ish is kind of the loosey goosey start time, but there can be lots of different ways to watch it. Eastern time. Yes, Eastern time. I love that, people. I love that we're doing this together as a people. So, yeah, 6:00 Eastern Time. 3:00 on the West Coast. What is that? Chicago Central time zone will be 5. The mountain time zone. If you're in Utah or somewhere like that, that's 4:00. I don't know what the time will be in Canada. That'll depend on which province you're in. But we love the people in Canada. We love the people overseas who watch us as well. Yes, an email will go out. I'm getting asked so many different kinds of questions. It's hard to keep up. But yes, I am recording it, too. The recording will go out to everybody. 11pm in London. Yes, I think that's about right. Is it 11pm Are you guys five hours ahead or six hours ahead? I think you're five hours ahead. Maybe Paris will be six hours ahead. But I won't use my terrible French because I cannot. I cannot speak French. It's one of my flaws. But anyway, in the meantime, I'm going to be quiet now and save my vocal cords for this great panel that we have up lined up for later on tonight. Great lineup to be a lot of fun. We're going to drill down on some of these very important issues. We're going to hear also from the audience. The audience is going to chime in with their questions. Hopefully they brought some good ones. I have also tried to make notice with the questions that you have posted on the chat and in other places. Duke is not here tonight. I have Duke right here. Maybe I'll bring him to the next one. We're going to try to do one in the D.C. area. That's straight whiskey right there, folks. No, I'm just kidding. It's why. But we're going to try to do that the next time. We'll probably try to bring Duke to the next one. It all depends on the forces and the powers that be. But in the meantime, thanks everybody for watching. Reporting from New York, the Big Apple. I'll see you in a couple of. No. And I'll see you in about an hour, hour or so right here live in New York. And we're going to give this a shot. Give this the old college try. So stay tuned. We'll see you soon. Bye.