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The Jim Acosta Show
The Jim Acosta show with Mehdi Hassan, Lauren Windsor and Tommy Christopher
01:05:43
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- [00:00]
Jim Acosta
Welcome everybody to the Jim Acosta show. It is Friday and as you can see, joining me on this Friday show is the great Mehdi Hassan. Mehdi, great to see you. Thanks for coming on. And I was just going to tell the viewers here, you know, Trump is returning from his trip to the Middle east where he had to do a lot of work. So of course he, he now is tired and in need of a long nap. But instead is he's spending his time on his social media like a, an iPhone addicted teenager attacking everybody who calls him names and doesn't like him. And while so much of D.C. has been on the subject of cognitive decline this week, I think it's time to ask ourselves and all of the folks here in Washington who are obsessed with this subject, is Trump sounding normal to you? I'm just going to read a couple of Truth Social posts, Betty. He was on Truth Social earlier today attacking Taylor Swift. T. Swift. He said, has anyone noticed that since I said I hate Taylor Swift, she's no longer hot. And on Bruce Springsteen, I see that highly overrated. Bruce Springsteen goes to a foreign country to speak badly about the President of the United States. Never liked him, never liked his music or his radical left politics. Just a pushy, obnoxious jerk. I mean, you know, Mehdi, where do we start? But these are the ramblings of somebody who is not normal.
- [01:15]
Mehdi Hassan
When you said, does Trump sound normal? And Jim, thanks for having me on show. Enjoying seeing all your substack success. When you said, does he sound normal? I mean he sounds like Trump. So in that sense he's normal. It's not like he's taken a turn for the worst. This is Trump. He's been like this for a while. Maybe not in the 80s or 90s, but he's been like that since Trump term one and he's obviously escalated Trump term two. You're right to talk about the context here. And Jake Tapper and Alex Thompson have this book out on Biden's health and the alleged cover up, which is all fine, legitimate story. It was a legitimate story last year and this year. The, the problem is context, right? It's very hard to have a serious conversation about whether Joe Biden had cognitive decline when the current president is ranting about groceries to the dictator in the uae, right? He spent a long time telling the sheikh in the uae. Did you know that? This word called groceries, it's an old word. I brought it back. What is that?
- [02:06]
Jim Acosta
What is that all about?
- [02:07]
Mehdi Hassan
It's a new obsession. I don't know. I Want to hear? I want to read a long, deep dive from the Atlantic or the New Yorker into why is Trump obsessed with groceries? Remember, it used to be flushes and, and shower pressure. Now it's groceries. He thinks he invented the word groceries or brought it back. Apparently, none of us went to get groceries until Trump told us to use groceries.
- [02:24]
Jim Acosta
He's never been shopping for groceries is my guess. That's what it is. And so he, he thinks it's this old, old timey word or something from yesteryear. And when it's just, this is what I, I don't know. I use that word all the time.
- [02:36]
Mehdi Hassan
I use the word every day. I, I use it in the uk, I use it in the US but look, this guy, the context is he is ranting about Bruce Springsteen's skin on his social media platform. He's President of the United States. I have said for many years that if somebody got onto the metro, the subway, the bus, the London Underground, sat next to you and started ranting about Bruce Springsteen's skin or about being Lord of the World or the reincarnation of Jesus, which is stuff that Trump has said. If they ranted to you about shower pressure and toilet flushes, you would get up and move to a different seat in this country. We gave that person nuclear codes. Right? That is where we are in 2025, an ongoing episode of Idiocracy. I don't know how many of your viewers watched him on News Nation recently where he was asked about Harvard, to comment on academic freebie at Harvard. And he went on a long rant about Harlem. Right? This is who he is. And it's insane to me that we spent so much time talking about Joe Biden's age or dementia or cognitive decline when there's a guy in the White House right now who is just clearly needs a 25th Amend intervention.
- [03:40]
Jim Acosta
No. And speaking of, you know, recent interviews and so on, the interview that I always seize upon is the one he did with ABC where he was insisting that Kilmar Garcia's knuckles had MS.13 tattooed on them. And, you know, and, and Terry Moran did a great job and everything. He was, he was just fine. That was good.
- [03:56]
Mehdi Hassan
I'm going to disagree with you.
- [03:58]
Jim Acosta
You didn't like that?
- [03:59]
Mehdi Hassan
He didn't do it. He didn't do it.
- [04:01]
Jim Acosta
He said things. I would have just started on that moment. But go ahead. You go ahead.
- [04:05]
Mehdi Hassan
That moment he said, let's agree to disagree. Jim cannot say we agree to disagree on whether the sky is blue, whether gravity exists, whether up is down. Black is what the guy.
- [04:16]
Jim Acosta
This is why I like you. I'm trying to be nice and you're like, ah, the hell with it. Let's just call it.
- [04:20]
Mehdi Hassan
I think, I think a lot of our journalists, present company excluded, have failed us on Trump in recent years.
- [04:25]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, no, I hear you. No, but the thing that I, and I know you probably would have done this, too many. To me, that's just a moment where you say, wait, what? And you just keep going and saying, but, sir, we're talking about the real world. And in the real world, anybody with a brain knows that those things are not tattooed on his knuckles.
- [04:46]
Mehdi Hassan
He was trying to. The really annoying thing, I was dying as an interviewer myself watching this clip is Trump is giving him gold dust. This is a great moment. The President of the United States is showing you he's delusional. In this moment, you're sitting in the Oval Office with an unhinged president and Terry Moran is trying to give Trump an out. Trump is digging this hole and Moran's trying to help him out and saying, look, talk about Ukraine. I don't even wanna talk about this, Mr. President, can we talk about Ukraine? And Trump's like, no. Seven times he insists that Ms. 13 was literally tattooed on Kilmar Abrego Garcia's knuckles. He didn't understand what photoshopping was. He literally thought. I mean, for me, as a journalist, I would think this is a great moment. I have a historic moment where I'm sitting with a president who's having a meltdown. It's almost like if you were interviewing Joe Biden and he was saying as he was in that debate and you were trying to change the subject and bring it onto safer terrain. Look, Trump's mental illness and cognitive decline and intellectual lack of intellect, it's almost baked in. Right? Jim, you and I have talked about this before. The problem with covering Trump is we grade him on a curve. We normalize the abnormal. We say it's Trump being Trump. Take him seriously. Not literally or literally, not seriously. He has all these passes that we all give him, all of us, journalists, members of public, we all go, oh, well. And he gets away with things that no other person could get away with.
- [05:58]
Jim Acosta
But. But Mehdi, one reason why that is, in my view, and maybe you share this view as well, is that you live in a consequence free environment. Basically, if you go after Joe Biden, like, if you go after Joe Biden, he's not going to call the SEC on you. You know, he's not going to slap you with a $300 million bullshit lawsuit if you go after Donald Trump and you raise these issues. He wants to shut everything down. You know, if. If Bruce Springsteen says one thing on a tour, you know, he sends threatening messages over true social and so on. And so it's just, you know, there's no price to pay by going after Joe Biden. To me, it's just sort of like, you know, I don't know. I think it's kind of an easy thing to say, to say, you know.
- [06:40]
Mehdi Hassan
But, yeah, I think that's a fair point. I do think, yeah, Trump definitely gets special rules that don't even apply to other Republicans. Like, I don't think Ted Cruz or Ron DeSantis can get away with what Trump gets away with. He is sui generis. It is a very. He is a unique figure in our public life, in our modern history, that he gets to get away with things no one else gets away with. He gets to be a convicted criminal in the Oval Office. And we're all supposed to just forget that.
- [07:05]
Jim Acosta
And here's another thing, too. I mean, put this under the heading of Joe Biden did this or Barack Obama did this. I mean, he's also probably trying to distract from another no good, horrible week, this time sucking up to Mohammed bin Salman, whining about how much he deserves a free $400 million plane from the Qataris while his sons are building new resort properties in the Middle East. The way he was slobbering all over those dictators in the region had me thinking, okay, first of all, get a room, fellas. But in the Wall Street Journal, they. I mean, give it. I'll give credit to the Wall Street Journal here. They went sort of line by line all of the things he said, slobbering over these dictators. I like you too much, he said to Mohammed bin Salman. He described Syria's president as attractive and tough. You're a magnificent man. He said to Qatar's ruling emir that they were tall, handsome guys and his family. What the hell is going. What is going on?
- [08:00]
Mehdi Hassan
It sounds cliched. It sounds cliched, but it's true, which is Trump loves dictators. I know it sounds like a partisan talking point or a Democratic attack on Trump, but it's just a fact, right? He's always loved autocrats, right? Even in his first term, he went on Fox and he had just come back from meeting Kim Jong Un in his trip, and he said, when Kim comes out, his people stand up to attention. Why don't our people do that for me. So he's always wanted that. He craves that.
- [08:24]
Jim Acosta
Xi Jinping.
- [08:24]
Mehdi Hassan
He goes and meets Xi Jinping and he says, why can't I have what they have? And by the way, he's trying to have what? He's trying to have what they have, they have. He's having a big military parade in Washington, D.C. on his birthday. Oh, it's really for America. No, it's for him. He's having a very expensive $45 million parade. I don't know where Doge and Elon Musk are, but he's having a $45 million parade because he loves this shit. Right. He loves meeting autocrats, coming back home, saying, how can I do it in America? He gets annoyed that in other countries they can shut down the media, and he can't shut down the media in the same way. The Middle east tour is a classic example of that. He's loving the autocrats, he's making money in the process, and he's again, getting away with stuff. That Obama, Biden. No. If Barack Obama had taken a photo, Jim, standing in the middle.
- [09:06]
Jim Acosta
Exactly.
- [09:07]
Mehdi Hassan
The Saudi crown prince and the former leader of Al Qaeda. Right. Republicans would have impeached him the following morning and he would have been assassinated the following night. Right. That's just a fact. Right. There's no doubt in my mind that Obama would remember. Obama slightly bowed his head to the Saudi king as a part of royal. And Republicans lost their mind. Here is Trump, as you say, slobbering on mbs, saying, he's a great guy. I don't know how he. He doesn't sleep. He works all the time. He's my friend. You know, let's forget the fact that he killed a journalist, according to the CIA, who was living in Virginia. And, yeah.
- [09:41]
Jim Acosta
Well, at one point, Trump said to Mohammed bin Salman, I don't know how you sleep at night. And I thought to myself, you know what? That is something I would like to say to Mohammed bin Salman in a different uptake. As dishonest as Donald Trump is, I say sometimes he's accidentally very candid. But the other thing we need to bring up, this just came in. Mehdi, NBC News alert. Supreme Court rules Trump administration must give Venezuelans more time to challenge deportation under Alien Enemies Act. So that's interesting that the Supreme Court is telling Trump to pump the brakes a little bit on sending people to that gulag in El Salvador. But, I mean, I have to ask you about this, because, I mean, these are the things that, again, it. It is insane we have to call it insane. It goes back to the conversation you and I were having, which is, you just have to call this stuff out. Apparently, the Department of Homeland Security is considering something along the lines of the Migrant Hunger Games or Migrant Survivor, a television show in which immigrants would compete for potential US Citizenship. What do you think of this and what are your thoughts on. Because you and I haven't talked in a while on this mass deportation madness that we're seeing in this country right now.
- [10:50]
Mehdi Hassan
So just on the Migrant Hunger Games, this is the kind of stuff which if you and I had said on air last year, if you and I had said at CNN or MSNBC that when Trump comes back, he's going to do a migrant Hunger Games, people would have said, oh, tds, you guys have Trump. You guys think it's going to world, the sky's going to fall in. You guys are obsessed with. But he does the craziest shit. To be fair to him, you know, when he says, I'm going to do crazy, he does it like, there's one thing he's consistent on, it's being racist and insane stuff he's been consistent on. He loves reality TV shows, he loves deporting immigrants. He's really racist. Like, this has everything. This. A TV show which, which would, which would force people to. The dehumanization is just insane. And it feeds into the broader, more serious point, which is you raised. Is this policy of mass deportation empowering a lawless rogue agency like ICE to go after American citizens? Forget legal immigrants and illegal immigrants. Absolutely undocumented. They've kidnapped American children, one of them with cancer, and sent them out of the country.
- [11:49]
Tommy Christopher
Right.
- [11:50]
Jim Acosta
That's a good point, Mehdi, because we go after the Russians for kidnapping the Ukrainian kids and taking them out of the country and saying, these are war crimes, this is inhumane, and we are picking up little kids with cancer, US Citizens and saying that.
- [12:04]
Mehdi Hassan
And by the way, and just to be clear, the Trump administration claimed, oh, the father didn't want the kid, so we had to send the kid with the mother. A Trump judge says, no, no, no, no, no. I suspect that this kid did not get due process. And it annoys me when media organizations in good faith and in a hurry say stuff like, US Citizen, child deported. You cannot by definition deport an American. Right. You cannot. Deportation is a deportation.
- [12:28]
Jim Acosta
Call it a removal. You're right.
- [12:30]
Mehdi Hassan
Call it removal. Call it an expulsion. Call it a kidnapping of a child. I think it's horrific what's been happening on this front. I Think it goes to the core of the fascism and lawlessness of this administration, which is empowering federal agencies. Armed agents in masks, unidentified, without badges, going out on the streets, literally rounding people up, including legal immigrants and American citizens. They just stopped. Hassan Pike, a very prominent left wing journalist, Twitch, Star streamer American citizen asked him, do you like Donald Trump? What do you think of that?
- [13:00]
Jim Acosta
What was that all about?
- [13:01]
Mehdi Hassan
What's your views on Hamas? This is what they're doing, right? They want to make an example of people. They want to send a message. They want us to live in fear.
- [13:08]
Jim Acosta
And look on the grabbing students for op EDS that they've written and so on.
- [13:12]
Mehdi Hassan
The Free Speech Party. Jim, you were at CNN for the entire 2000s where right wingers were obsessed with free speech on campus. And the first thing they do when.
- [13:20]
Jim Acosta
They say, don't police our speech.
- [13:21]
Mehdi Hassan
Yeah, completely. They're locking up people for op eds. They're locking up people for being married to the wrong person, apparently. They're locking up people for all sorts of speech crimes. Marco Rubio is the biggest single threat to free speech in America since Joe McCarthy. I actually think he's worse than Joe McCarthy because Joe McCarthy did not have the power with the stroke of a pen, to simply remove people from the United States because they wrote something Marco Rubio didn't like.
- [13:44]
Jim Acosta
At least McCarthy was ideologically consistent, as far as I know.
- [13:47]
Mehdi Hassan
That's true, too. That's true, too. Rubio has no spine, of course. He's using a 1952 law, an obscure part of a 1952 law that allows the Secretary of State to simply deem someone to be a threat to American foreign policy and remove them from the country. And as you mentioned, Trump is using the Alien Enemies act, which is a 1798 law, which is supposed to be used for invasions. Even a Trump judge in Texas, Jim, said recently, there is no invasion. And this gang is not part of the Venezuelan government, which, by the way, is not invading the US So when Stephen Miller goes around saying all these Marxist judges, these are Trump judges in many cases saying, whoa, you've gone too far.
- [14:23]
Jim Acosta
Exactly. And you know, going back to the. If Biden had done this and Obama had done this, I mean, Stephen Miller going out in front of the White House, what was this a week ago? And saying, we're flirting with the idea of doing away with habeas corpus. Can you imagine Ron Klain going up in the driveway in front of the West Wing and saying something like that? And heads not exploding on Fox News for a week straight you know, but.
- [14:48]
Mehdi Hassan
But they're fine with it. And what they're not. They're fine with the entire assault on our Constitution. This is the party that. During my childhood, I lived in the uk, but I remember reading about Americans on the right being obsessed with black helicopters. Remember that, Jim? Black helicopters coming together. Do you remember all the Ruby Ridge and Waco and ATF branch of the right? The right was. The right was paranoid about armed American government agents coming to your doorstep. Now Pam Bondi says, ICE have the right to come into your home without a warrant. Nobody says anything now. Stephen Miller says, no habeas corpus. Nobody says anything now. Marco Rubio says, I don't like what you say. I'm going to remove you from the country. No one says anything. They don't care. And I just said this earlier to our good friend Wajad, they don't care about any amendment to the Constitution except the Second Amendment. The rest they're willing to trash.
- [15:37]
Jim Acosta
I love watching Hot. And he and I are both Star wars nerds. I don't know if you are, too.
- [15:41]
Mehdi Hassan
So Andor has many lessons for our time.
- [15:44]
Jim Acosta
What do you think of Andor? Let's.
- [15:46]
Mehdi Hassan
Let's say I haven't finished it. Please. I'm a slow one. So I'm episode.
- [15:50]
Jim Acosta
Are you on? I finished it last night because I. It was one of those nights where I didn't have to do anything. And that happens like four times a year. And so I was like, I'm going to get through the end of Andor Season two. And it's phenomenal. And it is absolutely a, you know, an allegory for our times. You have to finish watching it while you can. You're very busy. I know.
- [16:09]
Mehdi Hassan
Talking of Star wars, did you see when on May 4, when the White House official account, which has now become basically a troll account for troll maga, they put out some offensive memes about migrants. On May 4, they put out a picture of Trump all buffed up because they can never show Trump's real body. He wears a baggy suit to hide him. He always has these weird memes where he's like, super muscular, which he.
- [16:29]
Jim Acosta
Why is that? It's very strange.
- [16:31]
Mehdi Hassan
So weird. So much psychology to be done about MAGA there. But what's interesting is an image. In the image, he has a red lightsaber.
- [16:38]
Jim Acosta
So it's like a red lightsaber. Exactly.
- [16:43]
Mehdi Hassan
He's a villain.
- [16:44]
Jim Acosta
Exactly. He's a. He's a Sith Lord. And maybe that's how they. They roll in the white House social media team, they. They accidentally tell you what's. What's going on in between the typos. I saw that and I was like, guys, you're giving away the plot here. But okay, so I won't give. We won't get into andor. Because you need to finish that. But need to finish the other thing. The other thing. We have to talk about Medi while we still have time. I want to talk about something you've written about, which is your interviewing and debating techniques. I want to get to that because I've always been interested in talking to you about that. But we have to talk about the big, beautiful blunder in the House. Republicans are now caving and signing against Donald Trump on this big, beautiful tax giveaway to the rich. It's basically an economic plan to screw the poor. The New York Times has a story out on this that the Penn Wharton budget model, which I think that's the business school that Donald Trump claims he went to. Nonkeeper says that people who make less than 51,000 a year would see their after tax income fall as a result of the Republican proposal beginning in 2026. However, if you're in the top 1%, including those with incomes over 4.3 million, and that may include you, Maddie, I'm just kidding. No, they would gain on average more than $389,000 in after tax income. That is pretty extraordinary stuff. And it lays bare what is going on here. Talk about giving away the plot.
- [18:07]
Mehdi Hassan
I mean, look, let's be fair to Donald Trump. He is a liar. He lies with almost every breath. But he hasn't lied about this. Right? He went, he told his people, elect me, give me money, and I'll cut your taxes. He said this many times in Mar a Lago. There are multiple videos of him doing events in Mar a Lago where he says, you guys, you're gonna be great. When I'm back in, I'm gonna cut your taxes. So to be fair to Trump, he was not lying on that moment. And he is trying to cut their taxes. He's trying to do another Trump tax cut that he did in his first term, which goes disproportionately to millionaires and billionaires. And they try and pay for it by cutting spending for the poor. They want to gut Medicaid, which Trump. Now here's where Trump is lying. Trump spent 10 years saying, I won't touch Medicaid. He said earlier this year, if they bring me a bill with Medicaid in it, I will veto it. Well, this bill has Medicaid cuts in it, lots of billions of dollars. And by the way, a lot of people on Medicaid are Trump supporters. I should point out a lot of Trump voters on Medicaid in Alabama and Mississippi and Texas. So he's cutting, they're cutting Medicaid to fund.
- [19:02]
Jim Acosta
He always tends to screw his people the worst. But go ahead.
- [19:04]
Mehdi Hassan
Yes, yes, yes. He's cutting Medicaid in order to cut taxes for the rich. Here's what's interesting when we talk about Republican splits. The Republican body in Congress is split on how much to screw the poor. That's all they're split on. Right. The debate between the Freedom Caucus and the rest of the party is you guys are cutting Medicaid and we're not gonna vote for this bill cuz we wanna cut it more. That's what Chip Roy and the others are saying. So that's the weird. Like on the, on the, on the, what's the phrase? On the pin on the head of a needle.
- [19:34]
Jim Acosta
Dancing on the head of a pin.
- [19:35]
Mehdi Hassan
That's it. It's Friday afternoon. Does go. That's what they're doing. They're arguing about should we cut Medicaid 800 billion, 600 billion or 400 billion? That's the argument. They're all in favor of the tax cuts.
- [19:45]
Jim Acosta
And I will tell you, Mehdi, and this is already me saying, this is giving me an idea which I'll say in a second. But it's like the tariffs. I've been to a gazillion Trump rallies within a five mile radius of a Trump rally is a Walmart. So the tariff thing, when the CEO of Walmart comes out and says, guess what folks, you're getting fucked. I mean that to me should have been like a red flare shot over the White House to warn them that this tariff thing is disastrous for them politically. The other thing too is that I've been to a lot of Trump rallies and I would guess that about half of the people who go to those rallies are, are on Medicaid or Medicare. They're on some kind of government health care, whether they realize it or not.
- [20:22]
Mehdi Hassan
But they don't think it's government health care. Do you remember the Obama town halls? Do you remember the famous sign when Obama was doing Obamacare? It said government, get your hands off my Medicare. That was one of the most iconic images from the Tea Party protest. So unfortunately, the right have found a way to create a reality free zone in which they cocoon a lot of their followers and they Drip feed them Breitbart and Fox and the rest of the crap that they get. And they have no clue that the government actually helps their daily lives. The government actually helps them with education and health care and other social services.
- [20:55]
Jim Acosta
And they don't forget that, you know, which Elon Musk crippled with doge.
- [21:01]
Mehdi Hassan
Yes, but they think Medicaid is just for poor black people and therefore why should I support it? I'm a white guy. And this, you know, this goes back to lbj. You know, LBJ made the point at the time that this is the best way to rob your pocket is going to point to someone below you. Get the white working caste person to think that his enemy is the immigrant or the Mexican or the black guy below him on the ladder or not the rich guy who is fucking him, as you said, with the tax cut. So that's what the Republican Party's always been. Even in the age of maga, even in the kind of complete transformation of the Republican party to be pro Russia and anti free trade, one thing has remained consistent. Pay for tax cuts for rich people by screwing over poor people. That they've been consistent.
- [21:37]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, no, absolutely. And my thinking about this is making me think maybe Mehdi and I should go to a Trump rally one of these days and maybe not go inside, but at least talk to the people outside because I would love to have a camera rolling while you were talking to people about this kind of stuff and pointing this out.
- [21:51]
Mehdi Hassan
Are you on Medicaid? Are you on Medicare?
- [21:53]
Jim Acosta
Exactly.
- [21:53]
Mehdi Hassan
Do you know how much you're going to. You should have a calculator. You should have one of those big like lottery style calculators. Be like calculating how much money that person's going to lose. Actually, Democrats should do this, Jim. I mean a row kind of.
- [22:03]
Jim Acosta
They really should. No, I mean should go to a.
- [22:05]
Mehdi Hassan
Trump rally, stand outside.
- [22:07]
Jim Acosta
That's right.
- [22:07]
Mehdi Hassan
And just calculate how much each person entering the rally is going to lose from the.
- [22:11]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, these members, these Dem members like Swalwell and others who are going to Republican districts go to a trumpet. Some lady, a nice lady who commented on our, on our conversation here said, why not go inside the trumpet? I will tell you because I've been to these things. My ears will not take it. He plays the music so loud at these things. It is an assault on the senses. And you and I would not be able to have a conversation.
- [22:34]
Mehdi Hassan
I'm less worried about the musical assault and more the rally goers assault on someone.
- [22:38]
Jim Acosta
The actual assaulting that might happen. That's Very true. Which is why we would say on the outside, where we have plenty of room to run. But anyway, Mehdi, before we get going, I did want to ask you. You've written about this, you've talked about this many times, but I have not been able to talk to you about this. Why do you love debating? What is it about your interviewing skill, skills that you think you would pass on to folks out there? Because I get journalism students watching and stuff like that from time to time, too. What's your special sauce? If you don't mind giving away the special recipe to Coca Cola or kfc? What is the many assigned rule?
- [23:13]
Mehdi Hassan
I wrote a book, which thankfully a lot of people bought, so I have given away a lot of it, called Win Every Argument. Yes, I do love debating. I've been debating since I was a kid. I turned it into a career. I have very few skills in life, Jim, apart from a big mouth and ability to argue, as my wife and kids will testify. So, yes, look, I love doing things. And when I came to the U.S. one of the ways I became known and ended up working at MSNBC is because some of my interviews went viral. Look, I would say that I love debating because since I was a kid, I have seen it as a way of getting to the truth, batting around ideas, testing people's arguments. Not just blindly, uncritically accepting whatever's handed down to you from a parent or a teacher or a religious or political leader, testing ideas and arguments, getting, you know, I've learned a lot from losing arguments as well, saying, okay, that I didn't get that wrong. I didn't think that through. And as an interviewer, I have always been keen to challenge the person in front of me. I don't like interviewing. Like people say, oh, wouldn't you love to interview Trump or Marjorie Taylor Greene? Like, actually, no, I actually enjoy interviewing.
- [24:10]
Jim Acosta
I was going to ask you that because I, you know, I think I, I would want to sit down with Donald Trump. Just, he's the president. And if you get a chance to.
- [24:18]
Mehdi Hassan
I meant more broadly, like, it's not an inter. I do prefer the people I interviewed. Vivek Ramaswamy, a little bit more of a challenge. What do you think of the guy? He's a smart guy, slippery guy.
- [24:26]
Jim Acosta
Oh, I've interviewed him. Oh, yeah.
- [24:28]
Mehdi Hassan
Eric Prince from Blackwater was one of my famous. I enjoy interviewing tough characters where we can have a back and forth. And look, I would say to people, journalism students, people involved in discussion, debate, you got to be prepared. You got to have your follow up question ready. You got to bring your receipts. You can't just wing it. And to go back to Terry Moran, here's a classic example. If I was Terry Moran, I would have had that photo in my folder of the knuckles and raised it up there as a moment to say, are.
- [24:52]
Jim Acosta
You sure about this?
- [24:53]
Mehdi Hassan
You think this is real? Is there something wrong with you? So I do think you turn up to it. You know, when I interviewed Vivet Ramaswamy and he said, well, you should check my tax returns, we had his tax returns. I held them up, highlighted, and he was like, there was a, oh, shit in his eyes. So I think, look, be prepared, do your homework. Bring receipts. Ask. I beg American interviewers, I beg Sunday morning hosts. Ask follow up questions. Don't just move on to the next topic.
- [25:19]
Jim Acosta
You cannot just take the first answer and keep going. I mean, especially in this day and age. I mean, they have talking points that are circulated well in advance.
- [25:26]
Mehdi Hassan
They've rehearsed, they gaslight on every level and just say demonstrably untrue things like the Kilmar Abrego Garcia line. And I just, I just worry that people at home are fed up. Sunday shows are not doing so well. People are fed up with the gaslighting. They're fed up of the lack of tough questioning. They're fed up of, you know, the camaraderie and the friendliness. They want people in power to be a separate group from the people who hold the people in power to account. You know, there's a lot of stuff on Sunday morning shows where it's like, oh, thank you, Senator, for coming on. Oh, how's the family? Great. People don't want that. People want the journalists to hold the people in power to account. You know, George Carlin said it best when he said there's one big club and you and I ain't in it. And I think people are frustrated that that's why Trump is doing well. That anti establishment anger that he rides, even though he is the establishment, but he rides that genuine anti establishment anger in America right now at the media, at politics, at some of our institutions.
- [26:24]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, but I mean, but more and more I feel like he is being revealed as a phony. And, you know, gosh, I don't know when it's gonna actually fully happen. Perhaps it never will. But I do think people are catching on here and they're starting to figure it out. The one thing that I do wonder, Mehdi, is what is going to take place in this media landscape over the next few years. Because I do think the reason why you're doing so well is Zateo, congratulations, one year anniversary and doing so well in all these other ventures of yours is that people are drifting away from the corporate media model. And so the question becomes what comes next? I mean, I've said to the folks at substack, I think the next election will be a substack YouTube election where these pla. These kinds of platforms are going to be the place where the politicians are going to have to go as proving grounds. Not so much. I mean, maybe the Sunday's talk shows will still be there, the corporate media outlets will still be there, but folks will be coming more and more to these types of places.
- [27:18]
Mehdi Hassan
Yeah, I hope you're right. I would voice one word of caution and perhaps on my base I'm a bit of a pessimist. My worry is if you look at the last election, which has been described as the podcast election, right, The Joe Rogan election where Trump just threw himself into podcasts and Harris didn't really. But my bigger worry is when you talk about, for example, a podcast election or a YouTube election, politicians actually don't mind that because a lot of those conversations are quite soft for them. Right. We don't wanna throw the baby out with the bathwater. The fact that corporate media or cable news or Sunday shows aren't doing well doesn't mean you then give politicians a whole different set of shows, whether it's a YouTube show or a substack show or a podcast where they just get to come on and chew the fat and have fun and have a light conversation. We need somewhere where we can have tough conversations, challenging interviews, combative questions. That's what's missing. And that's my worry that now you've got Republicans retreating to safe spaces at Newsmax and OAN and Fox and Joe Rogan. And then Democrats are going to find their own version of where they can go, where they want to last. Of any tough questions that's bad for America.
- [28:18]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, no, and I definitely think there's a little bit of an ideological divide on this. I think Republicans and conservatives, the MAGA base is. They're much. Because of the Fox News experience over the last, what, 30 years now, they're accustomed to this. Whereas I think progressives are for the most part a bit more open minded, are of the understanding that the press there serves a vital function and that you have to subject yourself to tough questions from time to time.
- [28:45]
Mehdi Hassan
But then it's asymmetric warfare, right? Democrats willing to take Tough questions while Trump and Republicans dodge it and go on podcasts on Fox. And then you're back to this situation where we began the conversation where only Joe Biden's being held to account for his mental cognitive issues, whereas Donald Trump isn't because he's being told by Sean Hannity every night, you're the greatest. You're the God's gift, et cetera.
- [29:05]
Jim Acosta
Oh, God. When Hannity goes out there to do cleanup on aisle six, it is. It's such a. I mean, he's compensated handsomely by Fox, and I guess that all makes it go down better. But my God, I mean, have some dignity, man. It's hard to watch.
- [29:20]
Mehdi Hassan
It's like watching those Cabinet meetings with Trump. Like, forget Hannity. What about all the Cabinet officials? Oh, my God, we're so lucky. God has blessed us to be sitting at this table opposite you, leader of our time.
- [29:30]
Jim Acosta
And that saved 200 million lives or something like that since Trump came into though.
- [29:37]
Mehdi Hassan
The best part of that is, Jim, she said a day before it was 120 million and everyone laughed at her. By the time she got to cabinet, it was 240 million. So someone in Trump world told her, it's not big enough number. You need to go up if you're.
- [29:48]
Jim Acosta
Going to sit opposite the President, 120 million lives is not enough. It's got to be at least almost the size of the US Population as it stands right now. All right, many. Well, good. Have a great weekend. Hope you get some groceries there, you bring them home, put the groceries in your refrigerator, and, you know, God bless.
- [30:05]
Mehdi Hassan
Trump for giving me the vocabulary with which I can go shopping. Jim, have a great weekend. Thank you for having me. Thanks, everyone.
- [30:12]
Jim Acosta
Thanks, Mattie. Good to see you. All right. Really appreciate the time. That was Betty Hassan. I've been meaning to have this conversation with him for some time, and I knew I was going to have a great time doing it. All right, I want to quickly bring in Lauren Windsor because Lauren has a fabulous article out in Rolling Stone today. And let's see here. I'm just going to just guess that I have her account handle. Correct. She's been working on this piece on our friend Ed Martin. I'm kidding when I say our friend. We've been covering the rise and fall of interim U.S. attorney Ed Martin, January 6, 2020 election conspiracy theorist kook Ed Martin. Lauren Windsor, of course, is well known as a journalist and has been out there over the years busting people like Sam Alito and so on. There's Lauren right there. Great to see you, Lauren.
- [31:11]
Lauren Windsor
Great to be here. Thanks, Jim.
- [31:13]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so I do want to talk about this because I just had a great conversation with Betty Hassan. But one of the stories that, to me, if you can just go below the Trump craziness as a headline, there's a lot of stuff that we have to sink our teeth into these days. And one of the more important stories out there is that Trump tried to put a conspiracy theorist kook in his U.S. attorney in Washington, D.C. a guy named Ed Martin. Ed Martin did not get that job because everybody figured out that he's a conspiracy theorist kook. But he is not going away. He didn't get the job of U.S. attorney, but he is leading Trump's government weaponization project at the Department of Justice, which is, of course, a farce because Trump has been the one weaponizing government. But, Lauren, you've been working on a story for Rolling Stone. It just got published this afternoon. It sort of peels back the onion a little bit on what Ed Martin has been up to. He's been up to a lot of stuff over the last several years, not just going on weird podcasts, but tell us about your story.
- [32:14]
Lauren Windsor
So this all the genesis of it was that, you know, people are familiar with my reporting to expose election deniers over the past several years, as we just said. But I had some unpublished material from a conference that he was hosting, the Phyllis Schlafly Eagles Council in September of 2023. So when his nomination was coming up, I was like, oh, I should go dig and see what I have there. And I ended up having the program from that night. And lo and behold, when I opened the program, there's a three page spread devoted to Tim Hale, whom he was distancing himself from. He was facing all this scrutiny for his connections to Tim Hale because Tim Hale was noted as a Nazi sympathizer by the prosecutor. In his case. He, you know, there was a photo of him, Hitler mustache, impersonating Hitler. Yes. You know, we were calling him the Fuhrer fanboy. You know, as we're writing the story, wanted to get that in more prominently. Fuhrer fanboy. But whatever the case, in the picture and in the spread, there were more parallels to Hitler and Nazism. He wrote a prison manifesto called that he named Mike Gamble. He talked about the American dream for a thousand years, which is resonant with, you know, the Thousand Year Reich. He was talking about hinge years.
- [33:45]
Jim Acosta
But this is Timothy Hales Cucinelli doing this.
- [33:48]
Lauren Windsor
Yes. Over these three pages that are in the Patriot Freedom Project program that were at this dinner that Ed Martin was hosting during the Eagles Council. And the dinner specifically was to honor January 6th defendants and raise money for Patriot Freedom Project. So I went because they were trying. Initially, they said they were going to give an award to Jeff Clark, and Jeff Clark couldn't show up. And then they were going to give an award to Ken Paxton, and Ken Paxton didn't show up. So it was very sparsely attended. But, you know, it. Cynthia was there. Cynthia Hughes, the founder of Patriot Freedom Project. And, you know, the. I think the bigger thing that we stumbled into is as I'm researching the, you know, watching all the video again from that night and then looking at the program, I stumbled upon in their website these hidden pages. And within the hidden pages, it was. They're still published. So a hidden page is not it. It hasn't been taken down. Like, you can go to the website and see the hidden pages on a sitemap. It's not like, advertised, but you can site map the website and you can see them. But anyway, they were all blank. But as I site mapped it, I found 52 of them. And I'm like, okay, so at one point there were these pages with the name of, you know, Timothy Hill Cusinelli, for example, or something. And you go, there. There's nothing on the page. But then as I'm like, writing my editor at Rolling Stone and sending the link to the page, there's a picture that pops up. So there was at least, like, the picture and the metadata. Well, as we start digging deeper, then we find these old pages that had profiles for different defendants. And in the profile, there would be a picture, there would be the address at the prison. So you could write them a letter and then like a donation button that would link out to their crowdfunding account.
- [35:57]
Jim Acosta
On these are January, six defendants.
- [35:59]
Lauren Windsor
Yes. And so as I'm doing this, I'm like, I need to start putting this on a spreadsheet because I want to see who are the types of people that they're actually, like, raising money for, because they're saying one thing publicly of, you know, and as recently as January of 2024, Cynthia and Ed co authored a. An op ed for the Blaze. And in that op ed, they said, violence against law enforcement cannot be tolerated. And so as we're going, yeah, as we're going through, I'm, you know, start noticing some. Some trends, like, oh, well, this person has military experience. This person's affiliated with a militia. This person, like, and, you know, time after time, we're looking at what they're charged with. It's like, oh, this person was convicted of assaulting police officers.
- [36:53]
Jim Acosta
Wow.
- [36:54]
Lauren Windsor
So then I'm like, okay, well, let's see what the percentage of that is. Like, what does that actually look like? And so we were able to identify about 100 defendants who were affiliated with the group. And out of that hundred, more than fifty of them were convicted of assaulting police officers or more serious charges. So, you know, when I say more serious charges, it's, you know, the seditious conspiracy and the conspiracy charges that the most serious, like the 14 people who were like the militia ringleaders, who basically, like, orchestrated the attack, they were supporting seven out of the 14 people who got commutations. They directly funded. Like, they give direct funding. And when I say direct, I should, like, delineate between direct and indirect. So, yeah, you know, basically supporting.
- [37:50]
Jim Acosta
They were supporting these violent January six defendants, his nonprofit.
- [37:55]
Lauren Windsor
Well, they weren't advertising who they were giving direct grants to. And obviously, on the website, you can see, okay, they're promoting. They're raising money indirectly for a greater number than we could prove they actually gave grants to. You know, you would think that if they're raising money for them indirectly, they'd also be raising money for. For them directly. But we're playing it conservatively here to say, like, what I can prove is that they indirectly were, you know, fundraising for, you know, a majority of the people there. Right. And.
- [38:30]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, but so let me ask you this. I mean, so based on this reporting that you did for Rolling Stone, and for folks who want to go check it out, it's on the Rolling Stone homepage right now. But I mean, the fact that Ed Martin doesn't get confirmed as U.S. attorney for Washington, D.C. he's now been placed in this position where he's going to be working on government weaponization. It sounds as though he's essentially going to be working on this January 6th stuff. And that's unsettling.
- [39:03]
Lauren Windsor
It should be very unsettling. I mean, this is someone who. We talk about this in the piece, but it's not just. I think. Let me backtrack for a moment.
- [39:15]
Jim Acosta
Yeah.
- [39:15]
Lauren Windsor
I think that most people have heard, oh, this guy. Champion 1-6- defendants. What they don't know is, like, oh, well, he was one of, you know, the organizers of Stop the Steal. In the weeks, the run up to January 6th, he was organizing with some of the key people who actually, like, executed, you know, on the day of January 6th, you know, the Jericho March. He was both a sponsor for and a fiscal sponsor for the lead organizers through Phyllis Schlafly. Eagles. And at that Jericho march, you had like, you know, religious leaders, you had advocates, but you had like far right extremists. You had Ali Alexander.
- [40:02]
Jim Acosta
This is the march that occurred a few weeks before January 6th.
- [40:06]
Lauren Windsor
Yes, it was December 12th. And unlisted on that website site as one of the speakers was Stuart Rhodes. Stuart Rhodes is the founder of the Oath Keepers.
- [40:16]
Jim Acosta
Right.
- [40:18]
Lauren Windsor
So, you know, the militia ties here. Like the fact that Patriot Freedom Project, you know, was giving direct financial assistance to like, Jessica Watkins to Ken Harrelson. We're not just talking about like, you know, some random oath keeper. These are the people who were charged with, you know, the worst offenses and, you know, received commutations. You know, Ed Morton's in a position to pardon all of these people. I mean, you know, he had pardoned, he had the influence, you know, to ask Trump for pardons for every single person. Whether or not they revisit, that's another thing. But, you know, the fact that out of the seven commutations, PfP supported them financially in some way, I think is really jarring that we have that activity coming from someone who is now the director of weaponization within, within the doj. I mean, you know, he's organizing events.
- [41:26]
Jim Acosta
And it also says, you know, for all the, the Trump people who say, oh, you folks in the media or Democrats, you guys just can't Let go of January 6th. Donald Trump is the one who can't let go of January 6th. The people inside his administration are the ones who can't let go of January 6th. Ed Martin, Chief among them is one of those folks who can't give up on the 2020 election. The conspiracy theories around that and January 6th.
- [41:54]
Lauren Windsor
For sure, I mean, they're continuing. One of the first things he did was come in and start firing prosecutors. And this was a really interesting, interesting thing for someone who's saying that they don't know Tim Hill, Tim Hale is tweeting about his relationship with, with, with Martin, you know, basically implying that he was a conduit for, hey, you know, tell me who your prosecutor was. If they're not fired yet, you know, we're going to get all of them fired. Well, it's brazen, beyond like anything, I think that most people imagine. But once you start digging, like this is serious ramifications. I mean, he's beyond now Senate confirmation.
- [42:40]
Jim Acosta
So. Well, Lauren, the piece is, and this is on Rolling Stone's website right now, Trump's Weaponization lawyer raised cash for violent January 6th militia members. The subhead there, Ed Martin is leading a Trump effort tasked with investigating January 6th Prosecutors as nonprofit supported dozens of violent January 6th defendants. Rolling Stone is found. It's by Lauren Windsor and Tim Dickinson, another great journalist over there at Rolling Stone. But great stuff. Really good piece, Lauren, and I'm so glad you came on to talk about it. And as these pieces come out, let's. Let's do it again.
- [43:14]
Lauren Windsor
I appreciate you.
- [43:15]
Jim Acosta
Anything else? Any last thing you want to add before. Before we go?
- [43:21]
Lauren Windsor
I think it was yesterday, maybe that you had Officer Fanon on. So for regular watchers of your program, I should just note that part of our findings were that, you know, not only did they support the seditionists and the folks who were orchestrating it, but they also supported some of the most violent offenders who weren't charged with sedition, namely two of the members of the mob that violently attacked Officer Fanon. Their names were Albuquerque Head Young. And so they received both direct support in fundraising.
- [44:02]
Jim Acosta
All right. Interesting. Yeah, that's a very good thing to add. Lauren, great to talk to you. Thanks again. Really appreciate it. We'll do it again soon.
- [44:11]
Lauren Windsor
Thanks, Jim.
- [44:12]
Jim Acosta
Okay, take care. Good to see you. Had a little bit of. Had a little bit of interruption there and some of Lauren's comments. Apologies for that. Sometimes the WI fi, we just try to do the best that we can. I'm going to try to bring in my friend Tommy Christopher here. Tommy is. Tommy and I are our friends, Been friends for a long time, and I am hoping that I have his correct. I believe. Yes, that's Tommy right there. Tommy writes for Mediaite. You probably have seen Tommy's work on Mediaite, and he's got a great new piece today on this whole James Comey. You know, I don't know if folks have been keeping track of this, the James Comey controversy. There's Tommy right there. Tommy, good to see you, man.
- [45:00]
Tommy Christopher
Hey, Jim, how you doing, bud?
- [45:01]
Jim Acosta
Doing good, doing good. I just wanted to get into this with you because I know you wrote a piece on this, a Mediaite about this, I mean, hullabaloo over what James Comey. I mean, he took a picture of some shells on a beach and Trump wants to send him the C. COD or something like that. I don't know what the hell is going on. This 8647 thing, I looked it up in the dictionary. This is what 86 says according to. I believe it's Webster's or the Oxford Dictionary. I Googled this I did a Google thing. It says eject or bar someone from a restaurant, bar, et cetera. They were accused of cheating in 86 from their favorite casino. That's the example of the use of that term 86. Another one was reject, discard, or cancel. None of this is assassinate or kill or anything like that. I suppose if you really want to go down that road, there are some people who might say, okay, that's what it means. But you wrote about how this whole thing is just completely nuts and silly.
- [45:59]
Tommy Christopher
Yeah, it's completely idiotic. And, you know, I. I can't believe that. Look, it's obviously idiotic to say the only way you can interpret this is this is an assassination. But what really gets me is just the way that the discussion around this, like, they've got legal analysts on TV saying, well, can we. Can he be put in jail for this? It's fucking stupid. You know, and this. This is the shit that Trump does to us. I mean, this is. This is an absurd example. But, like, that's pretty much what. What all cable news is now is just like, just. Just testing out the stupid shit that Trump does against, like, reality. And it's like, yeah, wake up.
- [46:42]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, it is sort of like the. The buffet line for his, you know, sandwiches that he likes to dish out on a daily basis. But, you know, you know, my thing is, is that. And we. And we get accused of taking the bait and the bright, shiny objects and everything. I mean, honestly, who cares if James Comey takes a picture of some shells on a beach? I really don't care. These are things I don't care about.
- [47:03]
Tommy Christopher
Or, like, pretty much everybody I know, their first reaction to anything he says is, well, James Comey, you know what I mean? Like, who gives it? Like, that's one of the points they made in the column is nobody likes this guy. Like, who is he for?
- [47:15]
Jim Acosta
You know, I know he kind of fucked everything up to begin with back in 2016, releasing that. That letter 11 days before the 2016 election. I remember it well because that was on the campaign trail with Donald Trump that day. And they thought they had just won the fucking super bowl when James Comey did that, so. And they did Comey get a burner account. You can post all the goddamn shows you want.
- [47:36]
Tommy Christopher
Yeah, for real. For real. No, but, you know, the thing is, Jim, my idea is. I. I have an idea the way we could make a million on this because, like, all these MAGA people are going nuts with this 8647. And they were selling, they were selling 8646 merchandise. I'm sure you've seen this.
- [47:54]
Jim Acosta
Yeah.
- [47:55]
Tommy Christopher
And so, yeah, whatever happened to this?
- [47:56]
Jim Acosta
Remember Joe Biden? They had the fuck Joe Biden stuff and they had, they were like, oh.
- [48:00]
Tommy Christopher
Fanning themselves over that.
- [48:02]
Jim Acosta
They were. They loved all that stuff. And like, the pictures of like, what are Calvin and Hobbs peeing on Joe Biden. I mean, it was all that stuff.
- [48:09]
Tommy Christopher
You know, so this is what I'm saying. Like here, I think we could turn this to our advantage. I. I mean, like, I might need an investor. I know you got some money saved. We should sell.
- [48:17]
Jim Acosta
Talk to Medi. He's the one.
- [48:18]
Tommy Christopher
We should. Okay, we should sell merch to the MAGA people. Instead of 86, 47, we should sell T shirts and hats to say, 69 47.
- [48:28]
Jim Acosta
Oh, God, no.
- [48:30]
Tommy Christopher
Because they would love. No, but America, they think about it.
- [48:32]
Jim Acosta
You know, oh, they would go for it. That's true.
- [48:34]
Tommy Christopher
Yes, exactly.
- [48:35]
Jim Acosta
The general public know Johnson want to.
- [48:37]
Tommy Christopher
Do more in life. What does Ben Shapiro want to do more in life than 69, 47.
- [48:43]
Jim Acosta
I think it's a winner. This is very true. That's a very good point, Tommy. It does highlight. It does. I saw Ben Shapiro the other way other day criticizing Trump for the wanting to get the Qatari Air Force One. I'm like, Ben Shapiro, give me the. Give me the biggest break of all time, please. You of all people have no room to criticize Donald Trump at all. But it goes to this thing that I've been wondering about, which is when do those guys.
- [49:06]
Tommy Christopher
I think Charlie Kirk is actually the, the audience for that. But hey, sorry, go ahead.
- [49:10]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, no, no, no. I mean, but my question is, Ben, is when are the Joe Rogans of the world turn? Because they can't just 69 Trump for the next three years. I mean, they got to figure out something else.
- [49:22]
Tommy Christopher
Yeah, no, well, no, they really. Well, and this is the thing, I gotta say, it's sort of. I have sort of mixed feelings about all this shit because, like, yeah, like, it is content. It's all content.
- [49:34]
Jim Acosta
It is sort of what Megyn Kelly has been doing lately, by the way, with Trump.
- [49:37]
Tommy Christopher
But anyway, yeah, I mean, look, this is the thing about taking debate, you know, like, I could I criticize cnn, but if CNN doesn't do these segments, then, like, what do I have to write about? You know, so.
- [49:48]
Jim Acosta
That's a good point. No, and, but the thing is, is that the other part of this is this the stunning hypocrisy because Trump can go out There, I mean, I think people interpreted what he said about Bruce Springsteen today on Truth Social as being kind of a threat. Didn't he say, like, you better watch yourself when you come back in the country or something?
- [50:04]
Tommy Christopher
It was definitely a threat. Yeah. I mean like, no doubt about it. And you know, this is the thing like, and it's, I can see how, look, Comey should not have posted that without thinking because it isn't the same thing. Nobody tried to shoot Joe Biden. Nobody tried to kill Joe Biden. And so yes, the fact that Trump was shot changes things. It changes the context. And no, I wouldn't Recommend People saying 86 Trump. It can be misunderstood. And you know, why invite that? You know what I mean?
- [50:35]
Jim Acosta
Right. And I guess he is kind of an easy, he's easy prey, so to speak for the Fox News crowd because they, I mean, they rushed Tulsi Gabbard. Isn't she the director of National Intelligence? I saw they rushed her out to ask for her take on all this. You're at the Secret Service, go over to James Comey's house and have a talking to him and all this sort of stuff. I'm like, you're Tulsi Gabardu, the director of National Intelligence. You don't have something better to do? So really it's just an extension of the Fox News outrage machine, this administration. And this is just the latest thing. And so they'll chew on this. It'll be on Hannity tonight and so on. But it's just absolutely ridiculous.
- [51:11]
Tommy Christopher
No, but I want them, I hope hopefully they'll be outraged that I'm saying they want a 69 Trump and like.
- [51:17]
Jim Acosta
Discoline Gunfeld, you know, well, you heard it here first. This was a Chip Acosta show exclusive, Tommy putting out there that 69.47. I like it. And they can't, they can't get pissed about it. And it is what they, is what they do with them on a daily basis.
- [51:33]
Tommy Christopher
So they, why would they get pissed about it? They'll love it, man.
- [51:36]
Jim Acosta
Although the thing though, if I may point out one flaw in the 6947 is that there's a reciprocal component to the number 69. And as we know, in Trump world it's always a one way street.
- [51:47]
Tommy Christopher
Jim Acosta, the knower of 69 minutia. I love it.
- [51:52]
Mehdi Hassan
I love it.
- [51:53]
Jim Acosta
And I don't mean to point out any flaws because this is what you're saying is absolutely hilarious. But I mean I see people making comments now that they did not really Want to go down this road, but you have to consider the fact that would Trump ever do reciprocate in this fashion? I'm sorry.
- [52:11]
Tommy Christopher
Yeah. I don't know, Stormy, about that. Oh, God.
- [52:16]
Jim Acosta
Did it last that long? I don't know. But so you know.
- [52:19]
Tommy Christopher
All right, all right, all right. Too much for me even.
- [52:21]
Jim Acosta
It's too much. It's too much. See, what? Tommy's a bad influence. What's that?
- [52:25]
Tommy Christopher
What else is good? What else?
- [52:27]
Jim Acosta
What else is going on? No, I, you know, the other thing. We should talk. Well, we can't really probably recover from this at this point, but your thoughts. I was talking about this with many earlier and I'll get your take on it. Since you over there with the fine folks at Mediaite, you know, everybody focused on Biden's cognitive abilities and all this stuff. I felt like we. I covered it on my whole thing back in my old place. It was covered on Fox all the time. It wasn't like this dirty little secret in Washington. Like nobody knew that Joe Biden sometimes stumbled over his words or forgot things or sometimes walked in, you know, tried to open up the wrong door. Like, glad you brought.
- [53:03]
Tommy Christopher
I'm glad you brought this up.
- [53:04]
Jim Acosta
And Donald Trump is tweeting about Taylor Swift, for Christ's sakes.
- [53:08]
Tommy Christopher
Yeah, I mean, I don't want to make this awkward for you. So we're not going to name, we're not going to name names here, but.
- [53:13]
Jim Acosta
We won't name it.
- [53:13]
Tommy Christopher
Look, there are people who think that they are burnishing their own, like, cred credibility because they're being so brave, you know? And like, look, first of all, taking a dump on Joe Biden at this point, I mean, nobody, nobody gives a fuck. And it's like you said.
- [53:31]
Jim Acosta
Yeah.
- [53:32]
Tommy Christopher
You know, Jen Psaki last night, she played a whole like, like six minute mashup of just the crazy, like, like meandering that Trump says. And.
- [53:44]
Mehdi Hassan
Yeah, so.
- [53:44]
Jim Acosta
And he's focused on groceries. Why is Donald Trump talking about groceries? You know, it's like. Yeah, my God, man.
- [53:50]
Tommy Christopher
It's a word like that. You may not have heard of this word because it's an old word. What the are you talking about? I was saying, and I was only half joking, if Biden said shit like that, they'd impeach him.
- [54:01]
Jim Acosta
Exactly.
- [54:02]
Tommy Christopher
But look, here's the thing. I'm going to have to defend Joe.
- [54:05]
Jim Acosta
And Biden did say shit like that and he wasn't reelected. So, I mean, there's that.
- [54:08]
Tommy Christopher
Yes, exactly.
- [54:09]
Jim Acosta
And look, he said, he said at a debate I killed Medicare. And then he dropped out of the race. We all fucking saw it, right? Hello.
- [54:16]
Tommy Christopher
All right, but I'm going to defend Joe for a minute because I haven't read the book by he who Shall Not Be Named, so. But I'm going to assume that they're throwing their best stuff out. What I haven't seen anybody do is produce an actual medical professional say that there was anything wrong with the guy cognitively. And they, like you said, first of all, everybody. Not only did everybody cover it, they hammered him for being old. They ever talked about it was all.
- [54:42]
Jim Acosta
They ever talked about. David Axelrod talked about it all the time.
- [54:45]
Tommy Christopher
All the time.
- [54:46]
Jim Acosta
All the time.
- [54:47]
Tommy Christopher
All of them. They would never shut the fuck up about it. Okay? And yes, Joe Biden is. Was. Will always now, forevermore be old. Okay? And yes, he.
- [54:57]
Jim Acosta
Has he entered the presidency old. But anyway. Yeah, yeah.
- [55:01]
Tommy Christopher
And he. Yes, he has problems with his speech sometimes. Okay. A lot of that can be traced to a lifelong stutter. And I, for one, am not the kind of asshole that makes fun of people for that. Okay?
- [55:15]
Jim Acosta
Hell no.
- [55:15]
Tommy Christopher
And so when you combine that with the fact that, yes, he's old, and yes, I'm sure there were times he was tired and. And yeah, I'm sure that there were lapses there. Nobody's produced, like, it's like the Biden guys are saying, nobody's produced any evidence that there was ever a decision that was made. We all saw him in action doing, you know, doing president stuff and, you know, and not, like, sending to the Capitol, you know, and like, not crashing the economy. He left the great economy. So, you know, I don't know.
- [55:44]
Jim Acosta
You know, I think he actually passed an infrastructure bill. But anyway.
- [55:48]
Tommy Christopher
Right, right, right. And listen, was it ideal for him to run again? I'm sure if he. Look, I believe that if Joe Biden thought there was somebody else who could have beat Trump, he would have stepped aside much sooner. But be realistic. Who was there? Who was there? First of all, if you put somebody else up who's not Kamala Harris, then you can forget about getting any black turnout. You know, you pass her over and having a primary. Can you imagine that? The Democrats.
- [56:15]
Jim Acosta
These are the things that the Biden team went over. I mean, this is the thing that people don't realize is the Biden team went over this and they said the poll numbers. And at the time when Biden could have gotten out, at that point, Kamala Harris's numbers were much worse. And that was one reason why the Biden team was like, well, maybe this isn't such a good idea for him to step aside. This was. This was sort of the TikTok of some of this that people forget. And the thing that I have an issue with, and we don't have to belabor this point, is that Biden said he would be a bridge to the next generation. If you're going to be a bridge, be the bridge. Do the bridge, be the bridge guy. And he didn't do that. He didn't do that. And so, you know, that was a big fucking problem. But the other thing is, is that they're grabbing people off the street right now in masks and deporting them out of this country. They're taking people who don't even need to be sent to places like seacot and sending them to a gulag. Or how about the US Kids? The US Citizen kids with cancer who are being grabbed? We talk about. I was talking about this with Mehdi. We go off on the Russians for grabbing these Ukrainian kids and hauling them off to Russia, and here we are, the United States of America, grabbing US Citizen kids and hauling them off to another goddamn country. What the fuck is wrong with this place? I don't give a shit about Joe Biden's cognitive abilities at this point because there's a fucking maniac in the White House doing crazy shit.
- [57:36]
Tommy Christopher
Yeah, yeah. Back to our conversation earlier about the. This 86 Trump. Like, oh, oh, my God. There's a big legal question about this. That's what it felt like watching the Supreme Court this week, listening to them. Everybody's talking about, well, gee, I don't know. Is it. Is birthright, citizen really a thing? Yes, it's a fucking thing. Why are we having a trial about this? You know what I mean? But this is the thing. And they're all like, over on. And, okay, I'm not a lawyer. I will fucking stipulate that. But I hear them saying shit like, well, you know, I mean, you know, it's a. It's a good question, though. What about these circuit courts? Should they be able to? Well, yeah, in this case, they fucking should.
- [58:15]
Jim Acosta
Yeah.
- [58:16]
Tommy Christopher
Okay. Because if they can't, then he could literally do away with anything. He could be like, okay, well, here's an executive order saying, you know what? Free speech. No, no more. And then it's like, okay, you can individually sue for your freedom of speech, but you can't have an injunction against that. You have to go through the courts.
- [58:31]
Jim Acosta
You're absolutely. You are absolutely right.
- [58:34]
Tommy Christopher
It's even a question.
- [58:35]
Jim Acosta
You are absolutely Right. That is a huge issue that the Supreme Court wouldn't even contemplate. That, to me, is astounding. And it's one of the headlines that we're just missing these days because we are focused on stupid shit. And. And that's why I'm glad you're here, but go ahead.
- [58:51]
Tommy Christopher
Yeah, I want to connect this to Biden for a second, too, because, like, honestly, first of all, the thing that most people who admire Joe Biden or don't even. Not even who don't admire him, but people know him, will say the biggest thing about him is he's got a. He's. He's a decent person. He's a decent man. Okay. And I really do believe that if. I do believe that if he had his preferences, he would probably have stepped aside. I think the only thing that mattered to him was beating Trump, and there was nobody else. And now. Now, like, we're in this world of shit because. And now. When's it gonna end? Okay?
- [59:31]
Jim Acosta
When is it gonna end?
- [59:32]
Tommy Christopher
Because the Supreme Court is like, they. He's gonna. He's gonna get to appoint more judges. He's got a three.
- [59:40]
Jim Acosta
Now, I've been bringing this point up. No, Tommy, I've been bringing this up. I. I gotta go because I promised Fanon I would go to him before he does his five o' clock byob. But I've been bringing this up on my show. We've only gotten through 100 days, and can somebody draw on a map how we get to the end of this without things really falling apart? And that's why we're doing this show. I know. That's why you do what?
- [60:02]
Tommy Christopher
Even if he leaves Office America is for generations because of this.
- [60:07]
Jim Acosta
Yeah. Let's keep talking, man. I think. I think you're. You've reached the audience here, and they want more, Tommy. So we'll do it again.
- [60:13]
Tommy Christopher
All right. Thanks, Jim.
- [60:14]
Jim Acosta
Good to see you, bud. Good to see you, man. Thanks a lot. Glad we finally did this. Thanks.
- [60:18]
Tommy Christopher
Yeah, me too.
- [60:19]
Jim Acosta
All right, see you. All right, I'm gonna bring in Fanon. Fanon, just text me. Don't forget me, Jim. I didn't forget you, Mike. Hang on a second. Let's see if Mike's in a tattoo parlor. What is he doing today? He's got this show. He's doing it in just a moment, and hopefully I can get through to him. Apparently, he's doing a BYOB thing right after my show. And I appreciate Mike not interfering with my time slot because I've worked hard. I Worked damn hard for this. I'm trying to get Mike in there. He may have already started his thing. Did he already start his thing? Let's see.
- [60:49]
Lauren Windsor
See?
- [60:50]
Jim Acosta
Hoping that Mike will pop up. Try to. I'm going to try to text him and say, mike, I'm trying to. I'm trying to get you on right now. Oh, there he is. There he is. There he is. He's back. He's back. I know I'm a little late getting to you, but I was getting fired up there with Tommy Cristo. Are you mid tattoo right now?
- [61:12]
Mike Fanone
No, we're just about to get started. I'm here at the shop with my buddy John, and, you know, unlike you, Jim, I can't rely on talent and intelligence. I've got to go.
- [61:26]
Jim Acosta
I don't know about that.
- [61:27]
Mike Fanone
To get viewers. And so. So during my entire byob, John and I, my buddy John, who's also doing the tattoo.
- [61:38]
Jim Acosta
Hey, John.
- [61:38]
Mike Fanone
Shooting the.
- [61:40]
Jim Acosta
Hey, buddy.
- [61:42]
Mike Fanone
Drinking and What's John's tattoo parlor called?
- [61:46]
Jim Acosta
Should we. Should we give him a shout out at least?
- [61:47]
Mike Fanone
Oh, yeah. High five tattoo. It's in Alexandria, Virginia.
- [61:51]
Jim Acosta
Okay, very good, because I think we had you in there yesterday, right? Or you had a different one.
- [61:55]
Mike Fanone
No, no, I was here yesterday as well.
- [62:00]
Jim Acosta
Better not be cheating on you, John.
- [62:01]
Mike Fanone
It's my home. Home away from home.
- [62:03]
Jim Acosta
But I've noticed. Yeah. And you got your Modelo there.
- [62:08]
Mike Fanone
I do. Surgeon general does not recommend drinking beer while you're getting tattooed. But like I said yesterday, I gotta be true to my show, and I promised I'd drink every single episode, and so that's what I'm gonna do.
- [62:21]
Jim Acosta
And I'm not gonna ask, because of the positioning of you to the camera with the Modelo, where this tattoo is going or what the tattoo is. You're not getting one of those tramp stamps. Or am I allowed to say tramp stamp?
- [62:34]
Tommy Christopher
Are you allowed?
- [62:34]
Mike Fanone
Yeah, yeah, you can say yeah. Yeah, they're still cool. But no, it's not a tramp stamp. It's. We're working on my back piece.
- [62:43]
Jim Acosta
That's what they call it. Fine.
- [62:44]
Mike Fanone
It's gonna be my entire. Well, my entire back is already pretty much covered, but we're adding a little bit.
- [62:49]
Jim Acosta
Some fine detail, or trump stamp, I guess we. We won't call it that. I was thinking, you know, if you were to put something on your ass. But anyway, you know.
- [62:59]
Mike Fanone
No, dude, I. I said yesterday, I've got this no fly zone. And I mean, maybe if. If there's a. Like, a special woman out there, that really wins my heart over. I'll get a tattoo for on my ass, but there you go. Other than that, no. Yeah, I'm not gonna subject John to that.
- [63:19]
Jim Acosta
Thank God. I was gonna say to John, man, I'm gonna send over a case of Modelos if that's. If that's the deal. But, man, oh, man.
- [63:27]
Mehdi Hassan
Well, we are bucket for.
- [63:28]
Mike Fanone
We are always looking, looking for sponsors, so.
- [63:31]
Jim Acosta
Perfect. Yeah, Good deal. Well, hey, I'll let you get to it because you're going to do the. The Mike Fanon BYOB special right in just a second here on Substack. So folks, got to tune in for that.
- [63:41]
Mike Fanone
Great, thanks.
- [63:42]
Jim Acosta
All right. All right. See you, buddy. Thanks, man. Have a good weekend. All right, bye.
- [63:46]
Mehdi Hassan
See ya.
- [63:47]
Jim Acosta
All right, well, so, you know, you got a lot. You got your money's worth. Today, folks, we. We talked to Betty Hassan about why when Trump says groceries, it's absolutely nuts. Talked to Lauren Windsor. Got some great investigative journalism from her. Tommy Christopher went a little crazy. I probably said some things I shouldn't have. And then we have Mike in the tattoo parlor with the Modelo claiming he's not getting a tattoo on his ass, which I'm not 100 sure if. I believe that it may have been a tramp stamp, although I'm not supposed to probably say that as well, but I've said it anyway. And yes, as folks are saying right now, it's probably this. This qualifies as a Friday. I went a little over my time. I'll just make that the. The end of this. But I just hope everybody out there understands. And I was going to make this my closing message today. I'll just say very quickly is that you are not alone. You are not alone out there thinking that what we're all witnessing is. Is not crazy. And, you know, this. This is something that I wanted to get across to folks before we hang up for the weekend. And that is, folks, you got. You've got somebody right here who understands what a mess we're in. And so I appreciate you tuning in every week and giving me your support. It means a lot to me, and it means a lot to the guests who come on this show. And we keep adding to the entourage here in terms of who we have on and so on. I think Tommy will be making some repeat appearances here given the energy level that we saw there just a few moments ago. My thanks to Mehdi Hassan and my congrats to him on One Year at zo. Make sure you check out him at zo. Lauren Windsor over at Rolling Stone. And my pal Tommy Christopher from the campaign trail. He's over at Media. Check out his work there. And of course, the one and only Mike Fone. They. They broke the mold when they made that one. And best of luck. Go watch his show now. BYOB should be a hood in the meantime. Still reporting from Washington, I'm Jim Acosta. Have a great weekend, everybody. Take care. Bye. Bye.