← The Jim Acosta Show
The Jim Acosta Show
The Latest on Epstein-gate with Senator Ruben Gallego and Stuart Stevens on MAGA, Mike Johnson, and the State of the GOP.
01:04:13
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- [00:00]
Jim Acosta
Welcome everybody to the Jim Acosta show. It is Thursday or another day that ends in y. If we are talking about Trump's cover up in the Epstein Gates scandal today, my big guest is Senator Ruben Gallego of Arizona. Senator, great to see you. Good to see you too.
- [00:15]
Stuart Stevens
Hey.
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Jim Acosta
And I should just start off by saying today's efforts to cover up the truth in Epstein Gate are centered in Florida. That's where Justice Department officials are scheduled to meet with Jeffrey Epstein's ex girlfriend, Ghislaine Maxwell, who's serving a 20 year prison sentence for child sex trafficking. And it doesn't take a rocket scientist, Senator, to figure out that Maxwell could be offered some kind of deal to exonerate Trump in exchange for her release or lighter sentence. What do you make of all this? What's been your sense of this whole thing since it blew up a couple of weeks ago?
- [00:46]
Ruben Gallego
I mean, it's just shady. It's just really shady and it reeks of a cover up. And, you know, Republicans are like, oh, why don't you guys bring this up? Like, we never made this a campaign issue. Trump and his people made this a campaign issue for eight years. And then they get into office and they continued making a campaign issue and then it blew up in their face. And then they're surprised that we're all like, okay, so why did this blow up in your face? Were you lying the whole time and you were taking advantage of, you know, you know, essentially re victimizing these women or girls, I should say, you know, were you trying to exploit, you know, the vulnerabilities of a lot of your voting base by claiming that everyone's pedophiles? Right. You claim the DOJ was not actually going after these guys and now you're using DOJ to cover up for these elites. So, you know, the reason is, it's so interesting. That's right. There's people that are still asking questions is because it smells bad, it looks bad. And like at the core, Americans know and feel when there is a cover up, especially of, of some really rich people.
- [01:46]
Jim Acosta
Yeah. I mean, and, and the other issue in all of this, I mean, this was the, the, the bombshell that came out in the Wall Street Journal yesterday afternoon that exposed that Trump's name does in fact appear multiple times in the Epstein files. I mean, I guess the big question is, is, you know, will he ever release the Epstein files? We don't know the answer to that question yet. And what do these files say about Trump? And I guess at this point, you guys are Just as much in the dark as everybody else. We just don't know. They're the whole. They're holding the keys to the. To the closet, I guess.
- [02:19]
Ruben Gallego
Rank hypocrisy. I mean, if you think about, these are the guys that went after Hillary Clinton for, you know, improper email servers. Right. These are the people that have been claiming, like, of all these conspiracy theories and have been asking and demanding for investigations when in fact, you know, we know for a fact. And if you see how Donald Trump just acts when it comes to this issue, that there's something there, there. And, you know, today I went to the floor and tried to again get the Epstein files released. And of course, again, I was blocked by a Republican senator. And the best thing you could do, especially when you're dealing with a lot of people that are wondering if there's conspiracy theory, is to release all the information and people can actually figure out what is happening there. This is the campaign they talked about fighting for regular people, fighting against the elites, and they talk about trying to protect children. They tie this also into border security. And now for someone that we know for a fact was dealing and conducting themselves with child exploitation, when it comes to Epstein, they're covering up for him and they're covering up for a lot of people, not just Donald Trump.
- [03:27]
Jim Acosta
Yeah. And I was going to mention, you did introduce a resolution calling for the release of the Epstein files. And so you tried to make that happen again today, and you were blocked. Are your colleagues on the other side of the aisle, are they saying anything to you privately like, ooh, this doesn't look good or this is bad, or, I mean, what's going on?
- [03:45]
Ruben Gallego
Well, I mean, I think they're just trying to hope the issue goes away. Look, on the House side, the House of Representatives literally fled Washington, D.C. this is the quickest that the House Representatives has ever left Washington, D.C. since the War of 1812. Right. And they cannot get themselves in a position to solve. Well, they can. The problem is there are some Republicans are joining with Democrats to actually, you know, get more information or trying to force a vote, but they're more worried about trying to cover up for the President, his elite friends, than trying to get to the truth. And none of this was ever necessary, Jim. That's the crazier part. You know, this all started when, you know, Pam Bondi gets into office and says, here I have a stack of Epstein files that we're going to go through, then had a bunch of, you know, conservative influencers walk out of the White House with These binders full of something. Uh, and then when, you know, he goes sideways with Elon Musk, it all starts kind of falling apart. And then it continues to fall apart. The lie begets other lies. And then people just continue to understand, feel that this is just a cover up. And, and why are you covering it up? Right. You're dealing with women that were girls, I should say, that were sexually exploited, raped, you know, by these rich, powerful men. And what the American public wants is justice, justice for them, and justice knowing that, you know, elites cannot get away with this.
- [05:10]
Jim Acosta
No, you're absolutely right. And I mean, that's been lost in a lot of this. Is, is, is the victims, I mean, the victims, you know, they've, they've sort of fallen by the wayside in this. You know, what's been going on with Trump trying to cover everything up. The thing that I have a problem with, and I think it stinks to high heaven, is that his former defense attorney, Todd Blanche, is apparently involved with this meeting with Ghislaine Maxwell. I don't know how that's appropriate at all. And if they strike some kind of deal where she clams up or comes out and exonerates Trump or give some story, I mean, this is not somebody who has a lot of credibility. And I mean, and then all of a sudden, you know, Trump tries to act like its case closed. What can you do at that point?
- [05:51]
Ruben Gallego
Well, look, I, I don't know. I mean, to be honest, we're dealing in a whole new world. But I know what, what's not going to happen. The American public is not going to suddenly trust what happened there. The Republic is certainly not going to trust the Assistant Attorney General or the Attorney General. And we look, administrations change and I'm sure that Donald Trump is going to pardon himself and pardon everybody going forward for whatever crimes they do while he's in charge. But at some point, you're going to have to answer questions and you'll have to either deal with a real court or the court of public opinion. And Pam Bondi and a couple of these other people that are involved in Washington State are going to have to live a long time recognizing that they covered up some really horrible people and really re. Victimized many, many little girls that, that were taken advantage of. And who knows who they're currently, you know, covering up for that could also be victimizing currently other people.
- [06:43]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, I mean, that's a good point. I mean, the actions that they're taking right now, which are pretty shameful, are going to follow them for years from now. And I mean, this was the thing that the MAGA base was clamoring for. For years. People like Dan Bongino and Cash, the FBI director, was clamoring for this, the Attorney General, I mean, they were all talking about this during the campaign. Who. And the other thing that strikes me is just bananas is the way Trump has been trying to throw out distraction after distraction, and now they've formed this task force to look into these allegations about Obama. And Trump says Obama's guilty of treason. And Tulsi Gabbard, the Director of National Intelligence, comes out and she, you know, I mean, the Wall Street Journal and Fox News don't even buy what Tulsi Gabbard has put out there. But, I mean, your thoughts on that? Because, I mean, there is something dangerous about all of this, is there not? When Trump goes out there and says.
- [07:34]
Ruben Gallego
Number one, Obama and treatment, Tulsi Gabbard is absolutely going against her oath to office. And I'm not talking about oath to office as being the head of dni, as an officer in the military. And at some point, again, she'll have to answer to that. She may, again be part of this huge pardons that this president's going to hand out to all of his cronies. But you don't get to get away from ucmj. And, you know, I'm certainly going to be around long enough as a senator longer than this president's going to be around. And I'm certainly going to be able to remind a lot of people that Tulsi is an officer in the United States army and she's not conducting herself as such. And she will be in the army four years from now, and she will still be subject to the ucmj. And if she conducts herself in a way that is unbecoming of that, I'm sure they're going to be encouraging the, you know, the military to be looking into hurt. Number two, the distractions aren't working because normally if you throw a distraction, the MAGA people will take it. They understand the game. They're always kind of part of it, right? They're. They're usually in on it. If you throw a distraction, they say, oh, that's a distraction. I'm here to aid. I'm going to amplify it and move on. The problem there is not working right now is because the distraction isn't to us Democrats, not to us Independents, to people that are generally, you know, either agnostic or hostile towards Trump. It's the fact that his Own people don't believe it, don't and understand it and, and think that this has been one big, you know, sham that's been pulled over them for the last eight years. And so that's, I think, what's very frustrating to Donald Trump because normally he'll actually tell you, I am doing this to distract you and his my guy followers be like, yes, you are, and we are going to play along. And it's not working. It's driving him nuts. Because at the end day, you lied to these people for eight years and you, and now they want to know, were you lying the whole time or are you covering up for you and your elite friends?
- [09:25]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, I mean, he's got it written all over his face that he's frustrated on a daily basis. And I mean, and he was just out there the other day basically lying to the American people. I mean, he was asked whether he was in the Epstein files and he basically lied. And he tried to dodge the question, but I think at one point he does say no. And you know, I just kind of wonder, are there going to be major consequences for this? I know he's been impeached twice and he wasn't removed the second time around. But I mean, to me this, this rises to the level of again, where that question at least has to be pondered, considered if he's implicated in a major way in this.
- [10:01]
Ruben Gallego
Well, look, it depends where, when, who and who has the power to do it. You know, at this point, we know the DOJ and the federal government is 100% going to be, you know, covering up for this man. You know, if it's state, local prosecutors, that's a different story. So we get information that matters, so we can't speculate. The most important thing we could do is make sure, you know, and we, me as a Democrats, we want to make sure that we actually take power in two years. There's a reason this man is so anxious to make sure the House of Representatives stay in the, stays in the hands of Republicans. This is why he's asking all these states to redistrict themselves. Because the last thing he wants is the House of Representatives that's appointing a special counsel and actually has subpoena power. Right. Because that's when this all comes out and that's when all the whole house of cards of all his shady little friends, his cabinet members that are helping him cover up this stuff also start falling down. So the way to actually have real check on this administration is to make sure that you have someone that can actually have the opportunity to, you know, subpoena to get the records, get the, the people under witnesses. And, you know, if you've seen what this man has done, his motivation for running for office again was largely just to stay out of jail. And now we're seeing that he's willing to do anything, including, you know, destroy, you know, any semblance of the independence of the Department of Justice.
- [11:14]
Jim Acosta
Yeah. And speaking of the midterms, I mean, I know it's a long way off, but I mean, the Gallup poll that just came out today shows Trump, I think, at 37%, this is the lowest he's been since before he left office. The first time around January 6th, I think it was at 34%. But Democrats have not been able to reap those rewards politically. If you look at the polling, who knows? We don't know where we're going to be a year from now. What's your sense of that? Because you did mention the fact. And I do think that this is a possibility, that he is going to try to, by hook or by crook, figure out a way to not lose the balance of power up on Capitol Hill come next year. Yeah.
- [11:51]
Ruben Gallego
Well, look, when there have been elections, Democrats have overperformed and won a lot of special elections. Right. So clearly there is something happening there. When you have polling that shows, you know, you know, what do you think about this? The individual party, it's a little harder. And because we're not running as a party right now, you know, when we get closer to the elections, I think that, like a national election, like you'll see in 2026, you'll see that. I think the first test for this is actually going to be in the 2025 elections. When it comes to New Jersey.
- [12:17]
Jim Acosta
Yeah.
- [12:18]
Ruben Gallego
And Virginia, I think you're going to see a very, very enthusiastic base of voters. Democrats and independents are going to come out and not support Donald Trump. So, you know, it's just, it's very easy to get on this bandwagon. Especially Democrats will get on each on top of other Democrats, like, you know, hey, we all suck, blah, blah, blah. Look, we, we're getting there. I do believe that, you know, our messaging needs to be tighter and just be focused on bringing down the cost of living, bringing up the standards of living, making sure people know that they could actually have a real chance at the American dream like their parents did. And I think when we start talking that way and we actually have the opportunity for people to, you know, explicitly, you know, say that that's what they want at that ballot box. We're going to win right now. It's just that, you know, the, the polling is, is based on who can you get on the phone, not who is actually going to show up that day.
- [13:09]
Jim Acosta
Yeah. And I mean, and you've been talked about as somebody who might, you know, have a future. You did say earlier you'll be a senator long after, but you are heading to Iowa in August. I think I read that somewhere. And that's a long way from Arizona. Although I do think that the corn.
- [13:24]
Ruben Gallego
Dogs are places are always a long way from Arizona. That's true.
- [13:27]
Jim Acosta
They do have some good corn dogs there. And by the way, pretty darn good minor league baseball team in Des Moines. I caught a baseball game there one time when I was running for a Senate from there. There you go. I mean, so what are your, what are your thoughts heading out there? That's coming up next month. That's not too far far off from now.
- [13:42]
Ruben Gallego
Yeah, I mean like thoughts of, of what I did all over Arizona by going to the rise parts of Arizona to talk about Medicaid cuts or going to Pennsylvania or going to other parts of the country, which we'll continue to do to talk to places that have Republican representation and need to hear a voice, you know, I would say of, of reason and, and at least at some level resistance. Right. Especially to these guts kill. Iowa is a entirely Republican delegation, both in the Senate and the House. You know, you have two, you have Republicans and senators, Republican senators and members of Congress that voted against their own people. You're gonna have hundreds of thousands of Iowans are gonna get kicked off Medicaid, food stamps, all to pay for tax cuts for the very rich, you know, a drop in the inheritance tax for, for the very wealthy and the, the lazy offspring of the wealth of the wealthy. And you know, because of that, you're gonna have a lot of people hurting now. You know, where will I go and give a message? Absolutely. He's in. I want, you know, it's Iowa. You know, I do like corn. So we'll enjoy that while we're there and you know, we'll get our message out as best as we can to help everyone up and down the ticket, whether it's 2026 or 2027 or 2028, no matter who the nominee is.
- [14:57]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, well, and, and one of the issues that everybody's going to be talking about obviously is immigration. Trump thought this was going to be a home run for him. Of course, he got, you know, he got downright fascist in the way he's conducted these ICE raids and put people in detention and so on. And I mean, I'm just looking at one report today out of the Texas Tribune. They're going to spend $1.26 billion to build the country's largest immigration detention center at Fort Bliss and El Paso. Just the other day there was this story in the Guardian that mentioned these Florida detention centers where migrants, according to Human Rights Watch, were reported as eating like animals. Their hands were behind their back, they were eating off of plates like animals. What the hell is going on? I mean, in this country right now, it just seems like Trump and Stephen Miller have gone, you know, full blown white nationalists in the way they're sweeping people up in this country. What's your sense of it? That's my take. That doesn't have to be your take. What's your take?
- [15:55]
Ruben Gallego
Pain is what they want.
- [15:56]
Jim Acosta
Right.
- [15:57]
Ruben Gallego
And they want to punish. And they can't actually really logically deal with fixing our broken immigration system because that would require you making some real hard realizations. Number one, that this country actually can't function with a lot of these people's labor. And two, you can't really deport all of them because it's just not physically possible and you'll destroy the economy. Right. So instead what they want to do to their own base is show that they're just going to be dicks, to be honest. There's going to be as, as big as they can, even though they can't hit all the deportions. So that way they can keep going back to base. Like, see, we're the tough guys, right? But like, the history of America is not us. That's not us. Right. If you look at, you know, me being a Marine, you know, one of the proudest things, you know, is that during World War II, when we were doing some really hard island hopping campaign, you know, the Japanese civilians were absolutely shocked when they were treated with respect and dignity by US Marines because they were consistently told by the Imperial army and, you know, just in general propaganda that if you were surrendered to Americans, you're going to get raped and, and, and killed and your family would too. And so the fact that, you know, we can't figure out how to have a sane deportation policy, we still need to deport people. There's, there's no denying that that happens.
- [17:23]
Jim Acosta
Yeah.
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Ruben Gallego
But, you know, any country that has to do that. But can we do it in a humane manner? Absolutely. We've been doing it way before this. Can we do it in A manner that targets criminals. If you actually do that, you would actually have illegal immigrants calling ICE and say, yes, I know where that gang banger is. I know where that drug dealer is. I know where that person that beats his wife is. Here, come and pick them up.
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Stuart Stevens
Right?
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Ruben Gallego
You wouldn't have mass protests on the streets and you wouldn't have to have ICE agents covering their faces, right? Because people would actually understand that they're actually doing a just, just, just work and doing a just manner. But instead what you have is people that are jumping away from due process. You're treating people inhumanely. You know, you're sending people, you know, deporting people to countries that they're not from.
- [18:06]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, right.
- [18:07]
Ruben Gallego
And it, and we're not safer in the process, right? We should be targeting these horrible criminals, these cartel elements that live in our neighborhoods. But instead you're going after shop owners, you're going after, you know, everyday workers and you're seeing it. You know, there are work sites that are, you know, absolutely empty. You know, I grew up in a Latino neighborhood, grew up working in construction sites, grew up working in meatpacking factories. And you're, you know, we are, we should not be shocked to see that there's going to be repercussions from this because the hardest jobs in the world are done by these communities. And instead of, you know, deporting them, we should just do some very smart, logical things, make them pay a fine. Because you did break the law, you crossed the border without permission, Number two, go through a background check. You've been here. Let's make sure that you haven't done anything criminal and that you have, you know, justification for staying here. Pay back anything that you owe the government, taxes. If you've been on some type of government program and then you have to, you will get some type of a permit to stay here. It won't be a green card because there's a lot of people in front of you that are waiting for the green card. But we're going to make sure you can't get deported in the meantime, provide you keep your nose clean and you could re up your, your permit. That way you're keeping families together. That way you're actually getting rid of these awful people. That way you're actually making these people productive members of society. Instead of this, you know, very anti American system they're using right now of roundups, you know, pressure campaigns, you know, fear. I mean, these are the things that are done by third world dictators, not by the greatest country in the United States. And it's really anti. Against our ethos, our values as a country that we would ever do something like that.
- [19:43]
Jim Acosta
Yeah. I mean, I.
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Ruben Gallego
That's why the, that's why the American psyche is. Is reacting negatively.
- [19:48]
Jim Acosta
That's right.
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Ruben Gallego
They don't know how to put their finger on it.
- [19:51]
Jim Acosta
That's right.
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Ruben Gallego
But they know, they don't like it because it is ingrained in us and I think in our DNA as Americans to, you know, believe in justice, believe in humanity, and, you know, the, the application of that law and the due process of it. And we may not be Harvard law professor, professors, or acl, ACLU lawyers, but we do understand it and we do feel it, you know, in our bones.
- [20:13]
Jim Acosta
Yeah. I mean, there's no question about. I mean, I've said on this show many times, I mean, the biggest, perhaps the biggest lie of the 2024 campaign was Trump saying, we're going to go after the criminals and the gangbangers. And, you know, and, and people are responding to that. They're saying, wait a minute, I was told that's what you were going to do. And you're going after Grandma. You're scooping up little kids with cancer. You know, you're, you're sending people to other countries, just all kinds of crazy stuff. And I love the way that you describe it as dickish behavior, because it is dickish behavior. This is the way it is. I mean, it is. It is what it is. The other thing I, I have to say that I, I find interesting that you called this out is what's been going on in Gaza, and there's been headline after headline every day of, of just suffering on an immense scale in Gaza. And you tweeted, when I served in war, I understood the dual obligation to combat terrorists and protect innocent civilians. Netanyahu's current approach to humanitarian aid in Gaza is failing and must be improved. The suffering of civilians cannot be ignored. And I mean, even. It sounds like some of the reporting, even out of the White House, they're frustrated with Netanyahu. How do we get a handle on this?
- [21:14]
Ruben Gallego
Well, you know, it's one thing when they switched because there was a program they were using, they're like, we're going to do this ourselves. They failed. Right. You are an occupying force. It is your responsibility to actually feed the civilians. And, you know, when I was part of an occupation of Iraq, you know, it was my job to protect my Marines and also to protect civilians. And that means if they get sick, you take care of them, you feed Them, they're hungry, you give them food. Netanyahu has absolutely messed this up entirely. And this is not, you know, if you talk to some people are like, well, you're just taking information from the Gaza Ministry, right?
- [21:52]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, that's what they.
- [21:53]
Ruben Gallego
No, no, I'm getting this from, you know, you know, the World Food Program, people that I trust, like Ambassador Cindy McCain, you know, from Arizona. And they're telling me that they can deliver this food, they can do this in a humane way, in a safe way, in a way that the food doesn't get into the hands of terrorists, and that you're saving people's lives. And it doesn't have to be one or the other. You can be for Israeli security, you can be for Israel destroying Hamas, and you can be for Israel being able to be, you know, a safe and sovereign country. But at the same time, much like I make the same demands of us as a United States government, you have to give compassion and humanitarian relief to civilians that are trapped and have no other way to go about. And what is the answer to this, you know, right now? Like, I don't know. But the right answer is that I can't just say that this is not happening. And that's why, you know, I've increasingly called more, for more for Israel to do the right thing and feed the, you know, the citizens of Gaza.
- [22:58]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, well, I. And, and you just have to wonder how, how long can this go on? Because, I mean, it just seems like human suffering on a massive scale. And, you know, obviously, like you said, I mean, everybody wants Israel to have the right to defend itself.
- [23:11]
Ruben Gallego
And we want the hostages back, too.
- [23:13]
Jim Acosta
We want the hostages back, too.
- [23:15]
Ruben Gallego
I want this all done. I want to make sure that, you know, the hostages are back on Israel to be secure. I don't want, you know, millions of Gaza refugees being, you know, pushed out to other countries. Like Benjamin Aarons had plans to do that.
- [23:28]
Jim Acosta
Yeah.
- [23:28]
Ruben Gallego
And I want them to be able to, you know, live free of Hamas. There's no easy answer to this, but the basic easy answer right away is give supplies and food and shelter. And shelter to those that need it, those civilians. Keep working to get the release of those hostages, and let's continue to try to move towards a long lasting ceasefire. But at the beginning, the one thing that just cannot not do the two things you cannot not do is give food and get those hostages released.
- [23:57]
Jim Acosta
Yeah. Well, Senator Gallego, I probably went over on the time that your staff had in mind, but I do appreciate the time a lot today really Appreciate it and thank for the straight talk. Have fun in Iowa out there.
- [24:08]
Ruben Gallego
I will.
- [24:08]
Jim Acosta
Yeah.
- [24:09]
Ruben Gallego
Come on, come out. We'll eat some corn dogs or something like that if you want.
- [24:11]
Jim Acosta
Sounds good. Corn dog with some butter on it?
- [24:14]
Ruben Gallego
Yeah, yeah. It's a little too heavy for me, but, yeah, it's fine.
- [24:16]
Jim Acosta
I know. I'm trying to mind my girlish figure, too, but. All right. And congrats on the new kid. Way to go. Thanks a lot, Senator. Appreciate it. All right. Good to see you. Adios. Senator Ruben Gallego of Arizona heading to Iowa next month. That's going to be very interesting. He's heading out for the Iowa State Fair. That typically means at least somebody's thinking about their political future. I want to go very quickly to Stuart Stevens, who has been very nice to wait while the Senator I have been speaking. I've known Stuart for just quite a long time now. I should say. I don't want to date the two of us, but it's been some time now. He was a key advisor at the Romney campaign and has since become a really sharp critic of Donald Trump. He wrote what I consider to be just a classic book on politics. It was all a lie. Stuart is just one of the best thinkers in politics right now. So sending him the invite right now. Stu's going to chime in there. Stu, right there. Hey, Stuart, how are you? Good to see you.
- [25:15]
Stuart Stevens
Great to see you, man.
- [25:16]
Jim Acosta
Hey, thanks a lot. Sorry, I was running a few minutes later. I was talking to Senator Gallego there.
- [25:22]
Stuart Stevens
I was watching and loving it.
- [25:23]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, no, I was having a good conversation with him and, you know, one of the things that he said and I wanted to hit through so many issues, I really didn't go get to go back to it. He was talking about, you know, people think that the Democrats are kind of suck right now. And he's trying to. He too is trying to figure out ways to sharpen the message. I think he said at one point, and I guess, what's your sense of things right now? I do want to talk about Trump and Epstein, but the other issue is that, you know, today Gallup comes out with a poll that says Trump's at 37%. That's about as bad as it's been since, you know, the January six days. And you just have to wonder, are Democrats capable of capitalizing on that next year? What do you think at this point? How do they do that?
- [26:04]
Stuart Stevens
Jim, what's happening now reminds me of when I was a Republican consultant while we run a bunch of races. We had no business winning. I'm sort of baffled by this moment, because here we have a President of the United States who's involved with Epstein, who's appointed these. These really just horrible people across the government. I mean, terrible. And you have a Congress, Republican Congress, that basically has abdicated any role. They're functioning as if they were in North Korea. And yet the discussion is, what's wrong with the Democratic Party?
- [26:39]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, that's a good point.
- [26:40]
Stuart Stevens
Like, how did we get here? The party that they lost to race. Okay, that happens. But the person that was the nominee would have made a good president. She certainly is in the mainstream of American politics. You know, it reminds me of the night when I was working for Romney and we lost. We went to bed, we were tired, we were disappointed, but we didn't fear for the country.
- [27:04]
Jim Acosta
Right.
- [27:04]
Stuart Stevens
And that's the same way it would have been with Harris. You may not agree with her on this and that, but, you know, she's a serious person with serious intent. So they lost. Okay, that happens. But I don't understand why there's any fumbling around with Democrats of what is the message they should wake up every day and attack. And this idea in politics that there's one golden message, I think is one of the great downfalls. I mean, how many campaigns I'd work in, somebody would always say, well, you know, if only we had this spot, or this. You know, there is no perfect message. Yeah, a lot of it comes down to the, you know, who's the messenger? But, you know, particularly now when you have such a diverse media, of which you're a great example. You know, we always tried to say, okay, we're gonna have an education week, we're gonna have a jobs week. I mean, you were on all those campaigns you saw.
- [27:54]
Jim Acosta
Oh, yeah.
- [27:55]
Stuart Stevens
And as you know, we never really pulled it off, but we could at least pretend, you know, you can't have an education hour now or something, and people are getting information from all these different sources. So I reject the notion that Democratic Party needs a message. What the Democratic Party needs is an attitude. It's like comics. Comics are not their jokes. They're their attitude. And what their attitude should be is we're right, they're wrong. There's more of us than there are of them. Go out and seize it. This sort of hesitation, you know, I read they're doing 250 focus groups about how to talk to young men. You just want to, like, you know, drop a nail in your head.
- [28:38]
Jim Acosta
No, it's so true. You're absolutely Right.
- [28:40]
Stuart Stevens
You can't focus group your way out of this. You have to do it with passion. And, you know, I've watched Bernie Sanders since I was at Middlebury and he was running for mayor. I remember riding my bike down the main street in Middlebury in Burlington, there's this lunatic yelling about rent control. And that was Bernie when he was running for mayor, and he won by eight votes. And actually, he was a very good mayor. But I think a lot of people are drawn to them not for the ideology, but by their passion.
- [29:06]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, well, and I tell people all the time when, you know, they get down in the dumps about things, you know, nobody thought. There were very few people that thought Barack Obama was going to beat Hillary Clinton back in 2008. And I was out on the campaign trail with them, and I watched him and I thought, you know, I don't know, I think this guy could do something here. This is something different. This is something new and kind.
- [29:27]
Ruben Gallego
I'm.
- [29:28]
Jim Acosta
In a very different way, in a much more malignant way. I thought that about Donald Trump back in 2016. I just thought this. The way he has a hold on people, this is bananas and people better pay attention, attention to this. And so I think some of this is driven by. If we see good candidates out there who just have the right stuff, some of this is going to take care of itself. But, you know, I think we have to talk about Donald Trump at Epstein because, you know, you're talking about things that, you know, just feel like bizarre world. I don't, you know, how in the world do we have a president of the United States right now who is in the Epstein files? That's.
- [30:02]
Stuart Stevens
Why did we elect him? Everybody knew this about Donald Trump. There wasn't any surprise about it. And look, a lot of people were wrong about Trump in 2016, but it's really hard to find anybody who is more wrong than me, because I couldn't let myself believe that this party that I had worked in, where we said this stuff, character counts, that the office of the presidency is more than just a place that somebody goes to work. It represents something soul of the country. And, you know, I felt like the guy who was working for Bernie Mad often actually thought we were beating the market. So, like, wait, all of this wasn't. That's how I wrote this book. It was all a lie? Because I don't know any other way to. Way to come to any sort of rational, intellectually honest conclusion. People don't change deeply held beliefs in a few years unless there's some extraneous. I don't believe in UFOs. If one lands while we're talking, I'll change. But that didn't happen.
- [30:57]
Jim Acosta
Yeah.
- [30:57]
Stuart Stevens
And it just proved that the party really didn't believe in anything but power. And, you know, say what you will about Donald Trump, he does have this animal instinct for weakness. And I think he looked at the Republican Party and saw that we. And I was very much part of it then, really didn't care about anything but power. And that if he would come in and say, I will give you power, you're going to elect me a guy, you know, church in my life. It's where I go every, you know, 10 years to sort of marry a model that, you know, I think nuclear triad is some sort of, like, hot threesome that I, you know, a guy that has spent his life giving money to Democrats. Yeah, all of that. None of that'll matter to you if I give you power. And he was right.
- [31:41]
Jim Acosta
It's such a stunning indictment. I mean, it's. You're absolutely right. When I read your book, I just thought, you know, Stu, hit the nail on the head. But here's the thing. Donald Trump seems to me to be freaking out in a way that I've never really seen him freak out before. And I've been up close with him, and the way he is just flipping his lid over, the Zepstein thing is remarkable. And in part, it's because he's run out of his dirty old man bag of tricks, just ain't working anymore. And he's pulling these tricks out of his bag and they're just not. And he's freaking out. The question, though, is he's got his personal defense attorney, Todd Blanche, who's disguised as a Justice Department official, going down to Tallahassee, trying to, I guess, negotiate a pardon or something. You gotta wonder, will the Republicans howl over. They're starting to howl a little bit. And some of this, I don't know if it's standing on principle or it's just all the phone calls coming into their offices, some of them are starting to go a little rogue.
- [32:36]
Stuart Stevens
Yeah, look, I mean, it's sort of a test here. It's like when Roy Moore ran and you would say, okay, what would it take to get white Republicans in Alabama to vote for a reasonable Democrat? Say, what if the Republican was a child molester? Nope. 60 plus percent of them still voted for Roy Moore.
- [32:59]
Jim Acosta
That's right. He rode that horse in and everything. And remember, he rode that horse.
- [33:06]
Stuart Stevens
What has always struck Me as so bizarre about the right's obsession with the Epstein files is that the one person in our party, not my party anymore, but it wasn't a party that we know is really close to Epstein, is Donald Trump.
- [33:21]
Jim Acosta
Yes.
- [33:22]
Stuart Stevens
So, I mean, this wasn't a secret. There aren't any revelations. You know, I mean, the Wall Street Journal or whoever it was, cnn, I guess today released pictures of him at Hillary's and when he went to Donald Trump's wedding. You know, I mean, this isn't a secret. These guys were running buddies. There's all kinds of stuff about them, and yet the party didn't care. So I think it's kind of wild.
- [33:49]
Jim Acosta
That we're just finding out about a lot of this stuff now. I mean, it took a Wall Street Journal story yesterday to find out he is in fact in the Epstein. I mean, this has been going on for the better part of 20 years.
- [34:01]
Stuart Stevens
Yeah. And I mean, look, if we were in front of a jury, what we would be looking to do is establish a pattern where you can say, okay, is what this person is being accused of consistent with actions this person has taken before? And that's always some of the most compelling evidence. And with Donald Trump, a guy who talks in public about dating his own daughter. I mean, unrealistic. Of course it is. Of course it's consistent with Donald Trump, the 27 some odd women that have accused him, a guy who a hometown jury found him liable of sexual assault that the judge called rape.
- [34:38]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, the escalator thing, where the girl's going up the escalator and he says, I'll be dating you in 10 years.
- [34:42]
Stuart Stevens
I'll be dating you soon.
- [34:43]
Jim Acosta
It's the creepy stuff. I asked that question of Mike Johnson, who says that that is just grotesque.
- [34:50]
Stuart Stevens
And, you know, I mean, look, has it come to this? Mike Johnson, I mean, it really. Mike saw Johnson.
- [34:57]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, yeah.
- [34:57]
Stuart Stevens
I mean, just a nothing guy. And somehow, you know, of course they were basically on Craigslist looking for a speaker and they ended up with Johnson.
- [35:06]
Jim Acosta
But he is the weakest speaker I think I've ever seen in my lifetime. The weakest. Yeah.
- [35:10]
Stuart Stevens
And he's just a weak person. And you know what really blows my mind here is all of these people, particularly in the Senate, who worked really hard, aspired all their lives to become senators. They're now in this powerful position. I look at Roger Wicker from Mississippi, somebody I've known, you know, forever. We were pages in Washington together. A very good person, a guy who most of his career has been spent a Lot of it focused on building alliances to make America stronger. He's now chairman of the Armed Services Committee. A dream of his life. And what is he doing? He's issuing in Pete Hexen. And he could not agree with Donald Trump more on Ukraine, and yet he won't call Donald Trump out by name. And I think it's a really interesting kind of moral dilemma that the Norwegians found themselves in. Are you going to be in World War II? Are you going to be a quisling? Probably. If you stayed in, maybe you made things a little bit better. Maybe they didn't arrest and torture quite so many people. Or do you fight it? Yeah. The party is just abandon any sort of pretense that it's a normal American political party.
- [36:19]
Jim Acosta
Yeah. And one of my favorite books is Kennedy's Profiles and Courage. And I just, you know, it's a classic. And I just wonder, you've been up close with a lot of politicians. Is it just that a lot of these guys, and I guess ladies, too, they're just more concerned about winning the next election and staying in power because they get treated like a celebrity. Somebody holds their purse or their golf bag or whatever and drives them around, and they just like that life. And so they don't want to jeopardize it and put it on the line and do something that's courageous. I just. I don't understand it. There's 300 million people in this country, and we got a bunch of people up there. They just don't have any guts. I'll put Ruben Gallego to the side because, I mean, I thought what he had to say earlier was kind of interesting. And he did sound like he was gutsy, but the vast majority of them don't sound very gutsy. And how the hell did we get.
- [37:08]
Stuart Stevens
I don't think we should redefine courage as saying who won the 2020 election.
- [37:14]
Jim Acosta
That's true.
- [37:15]
Stuart Stevens
That is what it's. I mean, look, these are heirs to the greatest generation. I mean, people like my dad, you know, he was an FBI agent and he fought in South Pacific for three years, 28 island landings came back, and he was just like hundreds of thousands of others, part of the greatest generation. And they handed that legacy to these generation of politicians, and yet they can't get their comm shop to put out a statement congratulating the winner of the 2020 election.
- [37:42]
Jim Acosta
Unreal.
- [37:42]
Stuart Stevens
That's a pretty low bar. And I don't think really it's about courage. I think it's about decency. And when you are quiet about something that is so detrimental and corrosive and toxic to the greatest democracy, to what it means to be an American. You are complicit. They are. I mean, you look at Marco Rubio and what we're doing to usaid. I mean, what's happening? If I, you know, a year ago, if I had conund CNN with you and said, look, dude, a year from now, there's going to be mass men running around in a department that will have a larger budget than any of the militaries in the world, except for two countries.
- [38:31]
Jim Acosta
Unbelievable.
- [38:32]
Stuart Stevens
You would have said. I'd be probably. You would have said, come on, give me a break. And yet, that's where we are.
- [38:39]
Jim Acosta
No, you're right. I mean, the ICE thing is unreal. And Marco Rubio, being the son of Cuban immigrants, to me, I think you have a moral duty to speak out when we're seeing unspeakable, inhumane treatment of migrants in this country. It's just absolutely 100% UN American treatment of migrants in this country. There's a story the other day in the Yardian about migrants having to eat like animals inside one detention facility in Florida. This is not who we are. And but for some of these people, it is who they are.
- [39:13]
Stuart Stevens
I guess that's what Democrats need to do. I mean, they need to go out and say, if you vote for Pete Hexick, you are not a patriot, because you're not. You can't turn over the most powerful military in the history of the world to some boozy weekend guy at Fox.
- [39:32]
Jim Acosta
He's wearing these skinny tights and the Gap and stuff. It's just a joke.
- [39:36]
Stuart Stevens
And say that you really care about America. And I think that there's a timidity about the Democratic Party that drives me crazy. And I think they need to have more swagger, more confidence, and be out there and asserting that what is happening here, it's wrong. If you had a list of ways to make the country poor, less powerful, sicker, less of a force for good in the world. It's like Trump has gone through this laundry list of them. They're doing it on every front.
- [40:11]
Jim Acosta
He's almost like a cyborg created in a lab that has exposed every inadequacy and inconsistency and hypocrisy that you could possibly imagine.
- [40:22]
Stuart Stevens
It's real. This is what they're gonna be remembered for. They've done all these things in their careers. They passed this law, they got this bill, they got this bridge, they got this airport. None of that is gonna matter. This is like segregation. That's all you're gonna be remembered for.
- [40:37]
Jim Acosta
Yeah.
- [40:38]
Stuart Stevens
You know, which side of the, of the bridge were you owned? And that's. This is what. This is the Trump Party now. Yeah. And I mean, I am optimistic though, about Democrats. I do think that Democrats can win. And I think if you asked me to say who is more likely to win the 28 and 32 election, I would say Democrats. The base of the.
- [41:02]
Jim Acosta
But the question is who? I mean, and that was where I was going to go next with this dudes. Because I wonder if the Democrats need their own sort of disruptor or, you know, maybe it's a personality type or something. You know, somebody who's just not a governor or a senator who's been waiting their turn patiently and so on. And just somebody who just goes for it and just starts blowing through some of these early contests and it just sort of throws the whole board game upside down. I mean, I just kind of wonder if it's going to be something like that. I don't know.
- [41:31]
Stuart Stevens
Yeah. You know, I'm a great believer in the theory that countries and parties invent leaders when they need them.
- [41:38]
Jim Acosta
Yeah.
- [41:39]
Stuart Stevens
And so, I mean, you look at Churchill, this kind of, you know, alcoholic has been, you know, who found a moment of historic greatness. Margaret Thatcher, another sort of unlikable, harsh backbencher. And all of a sudden the country and conservatives needed the Iron Lady. So what she had was powerful. Ronald Reagan, I mean, had to run three times. So I mean, look, I knew Bill Clinton since he lost his race for Congress. I didn't look at Bill Clinton and say, that's the next president. So I think you really never know about these people till they get out there.
- [42:15]
Jim Acosta
That's true.
- [42:16]
Stuart Stevens
And they have to go out and support to prove themselves.
- [42:20]
Jim Acosta
And I don't buy this stuff that Pete Buttigieg can't do it. I know people are, oh, because he's gay, he can't. I don't think that's true. People said that about Obama because he was black in 2008. You just don't know. We don't know what we don't know when they get out there. You're right.
- [42:33]
Stuart Stevens
Yeah. I mean, you know, it's like a friend of mine who left unsaid, but is a well known actor interested in politics. And he said, well, I always thought this girlfriend thing would be a problem, but I guess it's not. Maybe I should think about running. You know, I think that the Churchill.
- [42:50]
Jim Acosta
Thing though is so beautiful. He's one of my heroes. And, you know, I talk about John McCain sometimes. He was one of my heroes, and I know he's a flawed person. And people say, oh, John McCain did this or that. He was one of my heroes. And I just think he just. I like that kind of a maverick style of politician. I've always been sort of into that sort of thing. But the Churchill thing is so important. And if you look at what happened to Churchill, I mean, it was like every political force was out to get him, and he could. But it was that moment, and he rose to that moment. And I just kind of wonder, maybe we just don't know who that person is going to be.
- [43:28]
Stuart Stevens
He had moral clarity in this moment. I mean, more than I think majority of people realize how close they came to coming to some appeasement with the Germans. And, you know, that's really what the Republican Party has done. You know, there used to be a thing that we said, don't negotiate with terrorists, and that's what the party's done. And they've appeased with Donald Trump. And, you know, this idea you can't talk about 1930s Germany, I think is wrong. We're not gonna end up the same way. We're not gonna have another world war. We're not gonna have another holocaust. But what happened in 1930s Germany, you had these Prussian aristocrats who were very much like those leaders in the Republican Party, who, like Franz von Pathen, they realized that they had lost touch with the working class and the working class was becoming Bolshevik. So they said we had to stop this. The greater good is to ally with Hitler and we'll be able to control them. And when I was writing, I think it was all a lie. I went back and I read Franz von Papen's memoirs. He was a Prussian aristocrat who really did more than anybody else to usher in Hitler. He wrote his memoirs in 1953. To him, right, you can say things had gone a little sideways. World War II, a hundred million people dead, and he still was trying to justify it.
- [44:48]
Jim Acosta
Yeah. And there will be people like that.
- [44:51]
Stuart Stevens
And that's when people say to me about the Republican Party, where will the line be? Maybe it will be on Epstein. But if you think about it, this guy who they now do everything he says, inspired a mob that came into their workplace and tried to kill them. And once you accept that, you think there's going to be some, like, policy. Well, his issue on the law, the sea treaty, is too much. I'm not going to do well.
- [45:15]
Jim Acosta
And they're busy rewriting that, you know, the history of that day. They're trying to. Now they're trying to rewrite the history of the 2016 campaign and whether Russia interfered in the election. And the thing that worries me the most, Stu, right now is we have a polarized society that has a media landscape that is completely broken. And I've talked about this on my show a number of times. I mean, our news and information system in this country, country is completely broken. You have corporate media companies that are kowtowing and bending the knee to Trump. You have a right wing juggernaut with Fox and all of the influencers on the right. And we have this, you know, this Battlestar Galactica thing that's starting up on substack and an independent media. And that's all well and good, but public broadcasting is getting kneecapped and people still live in these silos. And you and I can have this conversation and people can chime in and say, that's attaboy stew at attaboy gym. But there are huge parts of this country where the information is not getting through and the truth is not not getting through. And it makes me worry that people will excuse Donald Trump being in the Epstein files because they'll cook up some bullshit excuse on Fox or they'll cook up some bull, you know, Laura Loomer will cook up some bullshit on. On X. And it. That's what terrifies me, is that you and I aren't even in the 2012 world that you and I operated in 13 years ago.
- [46:29]
Stuart Stevens
I mean, 2012 was like the Crimean Wars.
- [46:32]
Jim Acosta
Yeah. I mean, I call it the golden age. I tell my, my friends all the time, like, I got to ride on the campaign playing with Mitt Romney. And he was actually nice to us. He was a very good and decent man.
- [46:42]
Stuart Stevens
Yeah.
- [46:42]
Jim Acosta
And that shit's out the window, you.
- [46:45]
Stuart Stevens
Know, I mean, it had great respect for the office. He had great respect for President Obama.
- [46:51]
Jim Acosta
Yeah.
- [46:53]
Stuart Stevens
I mean, I think that was even true. I worked for Bush in 2000 and that horrible recount, period. I know because I was around Bush. If Gore had won, he would have been done what he could to support him. And just as a side note, I don't think we talk enough about what an American hero was. Al Gore was the night that Supreme Court decision came down. Because if ever there was a moment you could tear the country apart, it was then. And as I understand it from I've gotten to know some of his aides that when that came Down. One of the first things he told his staff was don't trust the Supreme Court. That is more important than this moment, which is a tremendous act of patriotism and sacrifice. Look, I go back to the core of MAGA and of the Republican Party now is non college educated white voters. That's the fastest declining demographic in America. In 2000, in the Bush campaign, it was 60%. Now it's 39%. So I think the coalition that Trump put together that enabled him to win, I always thought this was unsustainable because either MAGA was going to demand that you have masked men chasing gardeners through Brentwood, or if they did that, descending on these people who are just leeching off the system, which is why we always go to their workplace to find them, that it was going to shatter the. You were able to get up to 43% of Hispanic vote, which is what we got in Bush, by the way, in 2004, and then it dropped to 31% for McCain and Romney.
- [48:36]
Jim Acosta
Yeah.
- [48:36]
Stuart Stevens
So I think that that coalition is shattering. Just Democrats need to go out and have that moral clarity and not be afraid to say, you are wrong, this is evil. And don't shy away.
- [48:53]
Jim Acosta
And standing with somebody who is evil makes you evil, makes you complicit.
- [48:57]
Stuart Stevens
It's absolutely. Yeah. I mean, every one of those Republican office holders who did not speak up when Donald Trump pardoned cop beaters, they are people who support pardoning cop beaters. It's that simple. You know, these aren't. I mean, think about it. You know, I talk about this with Joe Trippy now. You know, was great Democratic consultant, always thought he was the best of his generation. And we laugh about what we used to fight about. It was like, was the capital gains status going to be 28% or 34%? I mean, it's quaint.
- [49:30]
Jim Acosta
Yeah.
- [49:31]
Stuart Stevens
You know, if only we could go.
- [49:33]
Jim Acosta
Back to those days.
- [49:34]
Stuart Stevens
Yeah, exactly. And we need a center right party in America.
- [49:39]
Jim Acosta
Yeah.
- [49:40]
Stuart Stevens
But we don't have one now. We have an extremist movement. And the history of extremist movements is they only become more extreme and the purity tests become more and more demeaning and demanding.
- [49:51]
Jim Acosta
Yeah.
- [49:51]
Stuart Stevens
And. Well, and it's the reason why.
- [49:53]
Jim Acosta
Go ahead.
- [49:54]
Stuart Stevens
No, I think the reason Trump appoints somebody like Pete Hexett, he knows Pete Hecsett's an idiot, but he wants to prove that he can make these Republican senators debase themselves, that they will get down on their knees and vote for somebody to be Defense Secretary who's an idiot. And I can do it. This is power.
- [50:19]
Jim Acosta
It's his way of showing control over other men. Yeah, yeah. There's no question. Yeah. No. And I think you hit on something that I think is at the heart of this, and it's about having guts. You know, it's about having courage, and it's an intangible. And it sounds a little quaint, and it sounds a little hokey, but that's kind of what it's all about here. And we've seen a whole lot of it.
- [50:43]
Stuart Stevens
Losing. There's no shame in losing your race. And I really don't know. I go back to Roger Wicker. His next primary is in six years, and he's going to be nearly 80. So, I mean, give me a break. This isn't about being worried about losing a primary. And so what if you lost a primary? You know, one of the things that just baffles me, Jim, is you've been around a lot of politicians, and they tend to have big egos, which is fun. Nothing wrong. So do writers, so do great athletes, so do great musicians. You know, so do journalists. So do journalists. We haven't shot anybody all day for that. But you would think that that part of them that has that ego would understand how they are viewed and will be viewed. And we're not talking 50 years from now. You know, what their children are going to study about January 6th is not going to be that these people should have been pardoned. And what they're going to study, they're going to ask, you know, when there were masked men disappearing American citizens, what did you do? And that's not going to go away. And I just don't understand why they say, well, I'm the person who stood up. You know, I lost, but I stood up. And why don't you want to be that person? It's really fascinating to me. It's incredibly disappointing.
- [52:07]
Jim Acosta
It's at the heart of where we are right now. Honestly, I couldn't agree with you more.
- [52:12]
Stuart Stevens
But, you know, I just got to say there was something about what we did in the Republican Party, Jim, that valued winning over anything else, and I was guilty of that. All I cared about was winning. I didn't worry about anything else. And that enabled a group of very superficial, weak people to rise to success because they just had to go along and be there and say the right things. And all of these things that we said, like character counts, deficit, any of this stuff, they were just marketing slogans, and they weren't beliefs. And I think, you know, look, somebody has spent 25 years plus, pointing out flaws in the Democratic Party. But think about it. If John Kerry on the night of the election of 2024, had said that he won and George Bush lost, the Democratic Party would have told him he was insane.
- [53:10]
Jim Acosta
Exactly.
- [53:11]
Stuart Stevens
And the New York Times would have said, like, this man has lost his mind.
- [53:15]
Jim Acosta
Yeah.
- [53:16]
Stuart Stevens
And there's not an equivalency there. There is something about the Republican Party, a sickness that we enabled. And, you know, I was part of that. And I think we have to be honest about it. How did we allow this to happen?
- [53:28]
Jim Acosta
Well, I think confession is part of the cure, Stu. I think that that goes a long way. And I know you've been, you know, a solid guy and being upfront about all this, and you've written about it extensively, and I hope people take it to heart. And, you know, I hope every once in a while that somebody from MAGA World says, you know, I just want to see what that Jim Acosta is over there and he's got Stu on and God damn it, what are those guys saying? And maybe they'll listen to some of this.
- [53:51]
Stuart Stevens
Dude, you are. You are a truth teller all the way. No, I mean, it's absolutely true.
- [53:59]
Jim Acosta
Yeah. Well, my attitude is, is that. And it's sort. I think it's the same as yours, which is the stakes are too high. I don't want to see this country going down the tubes. You know, you talked about World War II. My. My mom's dad, you know, he died when she was just two years old. I never got to know him, but he's buried at Arlington National Cemetery. My dad is a Cuban refugee, came over in 62, right before the Cuban Missile Crisis. You know, that's what makes this country a special place. I'm not putting myself on a pedestal or saying, oh, look at my biography. I'm just saying, like, I feel like that's a pretty goddamn special thing. I don't want that to go down the tubes.
- [54:33]
Stuart Stevens
Jim, what is extraordinary is the ordinariness of your story.
- [54:37]
Jim Acosta
Exactly.
- [54:38]
Stuart Stevens
That is what makes America great. And, you know, I think about Ronald Reagan. He announced in front of the Statue of Liberty to send a signal that he signed a bill that made everyone in the country legal before 1984. And his last speech was an ode to immigrants.
- [54:54]
Jim Acosta
That's right.
- [54:56]
Stuart Stevens
And we should not kid ourselves that what is happening with ICE in the Republican Party is a saying that we're just against illegal immigrants. And Trump has pretty much ripped a band aid off of that. He says we're Going to deport bad people. It doesn't matter if they're Americans or not.
- [55:14]
Jim Acosta
Well, he wants his cruelty to become everybody else's cruelty. And that's the scary thing about what we're in the middle of. And that's what makes this fight so important, in my view, and why we.
- [55:23]
Stuart Stevens
Have to tell the truth. Yeah. And listen, it's another whole conversation. But I don't think we talk enough about race in this. And if you take a list of the very competent African Americans that Trump has taken out of powerful positions and put incompetent or, you know, not more competent white people.
- [55:43]
Jim Acosta
Unreal.
- [55:44]
Stuart Stevens
And, you know, in 85, in 20, Trump's coalition was 85% white. Okay. He did a little better. In 24, it was 84% white. But at the heart of all of this rage is the fact that America's becoming a minority majority country. And all the. And that's okay. And all the Stephen Millers in the world are not going to change that.
- [56:06]
Jim Acosta
They're not going to change it.
- [56:08]
Stuart Stevens
And when you really, in a very simple sense, you look at everything that Trump is doing and it's hard to credit him with any organized thought, but there are people around him that have very organized thoughts. And when your base of support are lower educated white people, what do you do? You try to get more white people. You curate the electorate, which is what they're trying to do with ICE and all the stuff that they're doing with voting laws, and you try to make people less educated. You attack education.
- [56:38]
Jim Acosta
It's kind of their own great replacement theory, when you think about it.
- [56:41]
Stuart Stevens
Yeah, exactly. I mean, this idea that higher education has become like an on ramp to socialism. You know, I think about that every time I go to the Ole Miss Alabama game. Like, really? Really, we're socialists now because, you know, we're going to college.
- [56:56]
Jim Acosta
It's unreal.
- [56:57]
Stuart Stevens
And yeah, and it's in many ways very transparent and very simple. In the same way that the Russians wanted to elect Donald Trump and they elected him, and what did they get? They got a lot more than they ever could have imagined.
- [57:12]
Jim Acosta
That's exactly right. And it could not have gone better for them. I mean, talk about a low cost, low budget way to American politics.
- [57:24]
Stuart Stevens
The greatest covert op in the history of the world, undoubtedly.
- [57:27]
Jim Acosta
No question.
- [57:29]
Stuart Stevens
I mean, if you just think about it, the core of the anti Soviet Union, anti communist and questionable, doubting Russia, doubting Putin was the most conservative element of the Republican Party. Totally. And now has become the beating heart of the pro Putin element of American politics.
- [57:49]
Jim Acosta
Yeah.
- [57:49]
Stuart Stevens
And that is to go back to Churchill. It's like Churchill decided that Nazis are good and, you know, they surrounded. I mean, it's just extraordinary.
- [57:58]
Jim Acosta
Yeah. Well, I tell you, Stu, I mean, I think we have to do this on a regular basis because we didn't even get to some of the stuff that I wanted to talk about, which is, you know, how do we get through to young men and, you know, hit them upside the side of the head and say, you know, stop worshiping this guy who's been. He was just mocked on south park for certain things that, you know, maybe I shouldn't say, but maybe I will say as I close out the show. But, you know, I mean, honestly, the stakes are really high right now. It's a tall order that we're up against. But I'm glad that you're on the case, duo. I've always been glad that you're on the case because you're a truth teller and I really appreciate the time. Let's do this again.
- [58:36]
Stuart Stevens
I'd love to.
- [58:37]
Jim Acosta
Let's make it happen. All right. Good to see you, man.
- [58:39]
Stuart Stevens
Talk to you.
- [58:39]
Jim Acosta
All right, you too. Take care. All right. That's the great Stuart Stevens. And, you know, we didn't get to reminisce about the 2012 campaign. We would see each other out on the campaign trail. And I always just thought Stu was a character, but also kind of a sage with lots of wisdom to impart upon young reporters and journalists like myself. Anyway, really interesting guy and hope we can keep these conversations going. And I noticed the Lincoln Square folks were chiming in Stu's with Lincoln Square. I don't even know if I mentioned that as we were getting going, but obviously, you know, when you're on the substack machine and you want to give them a subscribe, I would say go ahead and give them a subscribe because you get to hear from the wit and wisdom of Stuart Stevens, who always a treat to talk to, really appreciate his time. A couple of things to close out on, I have to say. And I know Hulk Hogan endorsed Donald Trump in 2024. I'm going to say anyway, Hulk Hogan, rest in peace. I grew up watching World Wrestling Federation. I guess they changed it to WWE at some point when I stopped caring about professional wrestling. But I grew up watching Hulk Hogan. And I will say that I did love it. I when he would say, you know, what you going to do when the Hulkster runs wild on you? I mean, I will just say that when he was battling Andre the Giant and Big John Stud and the junkyard dog and all that stuff. There might be just a very small segment of people who are watching right now who understand anything that I'm saying right now, but it was a big part of my childhood. And I have to say, and I know people say there's all these problems with Hulk Hogan, and it's all true. Yes, there are all these problems with Hulk Hogan. But I am going to say, like I said earlier on social media earlier this week about Ozzy Osbourne, who was also, you know, Crazy Train. And anyway, rest in peace to Hulk Hogan. Rest in peace to Ozzy Osbourne. I have to say, just to close out this show, that the First Amendment of the Constitution of the United States is a beautiful thing. And the reason why I'm going to say that right now is because the people at south park are just a national treasure. The wrap reporting that south park creators Trey Parker and Matt Stone may have signed an extremely lucrative new streaming deal with Paramount. But on Wednesday, that's or yesterday, they proved that deal won't keep them from criticizing the company or President Donald Trump's nether regions. Let's just say the new episode called Sermon on the Mount roasted the way various media companies and institutions have caved instead of fighting Trump's various lawsuits or institutional abuses. And this is in the Wrap, and if you haven't seen the video, you can go look at it on social media. The video depicts Donald Trump literally in bed with Satan and featuring a sermon from the show's version of Jesus Christ urging everyone not to provoke Trump and begging them to be afraid of him. The episode ended with the town of south park agreeing to settle a clearly nuisance lawsuit filed against it by Trump for $3 million. Anyway, it's absolutely hysterical. It's hilarious. Please go watch it. But, you know, one of the reasons why we're obviously seeing the folks over at south park, which falls under Paramount, putting out this kind of video is because of what happened to Stephen Colbert over at cbs, who, who became a victim of what's happening over at Paramount these days. But I, I will say it is a beautiful thing about the First Amendment in this country when you have south park taking it to the commander in chief and just exercising their First Amendment rights, the artistic expression. You have a right to expression in this country, and they certainly express themselves. If you get a chance to take a look at it. I can't top it with any kind of closing monologue on the show other than to say, please go take a look because, wow, they really do go after the guy who is hiding from the Epstein files in the White House right now. My thanks to Senator Ruben Gallego. My thanks to Stuart Stevens of Lincoln Square. If you've not read his book It Was All a Lie. It's an absolute classic and it's not a very long book. You can read it pretty quickly. But I think it's a classic piece of political literature and I encourage everybody to take a look at it. Hey, everybody, thanks for watching. Really appreciate it. I think I'll be doing kind of a mini show tomorrow. I'll keep you posted on that. But in the meantime, it's been a great week this week. We've had just some incredible guests and a lot of breaking news. My goodness, Yesterday I think I did four different podcasts, including my own, including talking to Katie Couric and Don Lemon about that explosive story out of the Wall Street Journal in the Epstein files. Donald Trump in the Epstein files. We're going to continue to follow Epstein Gate on this show without commercial interruption here on Substack and on Apple Podcasts. Perhaps you have a little bit of that on YouTube. But always appreciate everybody watching and giving some of your valuable time to watch this program. It is greatly appreciated day in and day out. Still reporting from Washington, I'm Jim Acosta. Have a good evening, everybody. I'll see you next time.
- [63:41]
Stuart Stevens
Bye. Bye.