The White Lotus Dad Who Reminded Us Why Speaking Truth Still Matters

Summary

Podcast Summary: "The White Lotus Dad Who Reminded Us Why Speaking Truth Still Matters"

Podcast Information:

• Title: The Jim Acosta Show
• Host: Jim Acosta
• Guest: Jason Isaacs
• Episode Title: The White Lotus Dad Who Reminded Us Why Speaking Truth Still Matters
• Release Date: June 26, 2025
• Description: Don't give into the lies. Don't give into fear. Hold on to the truth. And hope.

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1. Introduction

Jim Acosta welcomes Jason Isaacs to "The Jim Acosta Show," highlighting Isaacs' notable roles, including Timothy Ratliff in White Lotus and Lucius Malfoy in the Harry Potter series. The primary focus is Isaacs' new project, the film "Words of War," which delves into the critical theme of speaking truth in the face of adversity.

[00:32] Jim Acosta: "Jason, of course, played Timothy Ratliff, the spiraling, pill-popping and occasionally pantsless dad in season three of White Lotus. He was also, of course, Lucius Malfoy in the Harry Potter movies. He's here to talk about Words of War, which is a completely different project."

2. Threats to Free Press and Public Media

The conversation swiftly transitions to current threats against free press institutions. Acosta references a recent executive order aimed at defunding public media outlets like PBS and NPR, citing alleged biases.

[00:51] Jim Acosta: "Trump signed an executive order aiming to slash public subsidies to PBS and NPR as he alleged bias in their reporting. The order instructs the Corporation for Public Broadcasting, other federal agencies to, quote, cease federal funding for NPR and PBS."

Isaacs emphasizes the critical role these institutions play in maintaining an informed public.

[01:18] Jason Isaacs: "Services that are telling the truth to people."

3. The Importance of Journalism and "Words of War"

Isaacs introduces "Words of War," a film inspired by Anna Politkovskaya, a Russian journalist who exposed atrocities under Putin's regime and ultimately lost her life for her reporting. He draws parallels between the suppression of free media in Russia and current threats in the U.S.

[01:37] Jason Isaacs: "The film is about a remarkable woman, an ordinary woman. She was a human interest journalist who was sent to a war zone... she discovered mass graves, evidence of mass rape, torture, starvation... And in the end, she lost her life for it."

4. The White House Correspondents Dinner Incident

Isaacs recounts his experience at the White House Correspondents Dinner, noting the absence of President Trump and the event's focus on the importance of a free press.

[03:21] Jason Isaacs: "We are not the enemy of the people, and we are not the enemy of the state. And they are the central... pillar of what keeps us free in the World."

5. Censorship, Media Bias, and Self-Censorship

The discussion delves into self-censorship among journalists and public figures due to political pressures. Isaacs shares personal anecdotes about being misquoted and the dangers of fabricated stories.

[06:08] Jason Isaacs: "But I'm saying I did meet the White House press secretary. I did meet the White House press secretary. I had called Sean Spicer Goebbels previously... Journalists have a responsibility not to make up stuff."

6. The Role of Social Media and Misinformation

Jim Acosta and Jason Isaacs explore how social media exacerbates misinformation and personal attacks, further endangering the integrity of journalism.

[16:31] Jim Acosta: "The way, and some of this is social media, the way it spreads via social media."

Isaacs highlights the spread of misinformation and its real-world consequences, including threats to personal safety.

[11:12] Jason Isaacs: "I had been in the White Lotus in the last two months, I've done a billion interviews... people get killed for, like, that."

7. "Words of War" and Its Contemporary Relevance

Isaacs discusses "Words of War" as a cautionary tale, reflecting on the current political climate where authoritarian tendencies threaten democratic institutions.

[22:51] Jason Isaacs: "This is his playbook. The playbook he used to tell the Russian people lies about why they needed to invade Chechnya and what the Chechnyans were is identical to the playbook he used in Ukraine."

8. Action Steps for Artists and the Public

When asked about what artists can do in these turbulent times, Isaacs advocates for active engagement rather than inaction. He encourages small, meaningful actions such as community support, donations, and advocacy.

[08:30] Jason Isaacs: "Something. The answer is something. Doing nothing just makes you feel bad. If you do nothing and you read all the news all the time, you just feel depressed and scared. If you do something... make your local representative aware of the things you care about, but do something. Don't do nothing. And talk about it at dinner."

9. The Struggle for Free Speech and Democratic Integrity

Isaacs elaborates on the erosion of democratic checks and balances, drawing parallels to historical authoritarian regimes. He stresses the urgent need for unity and leadership to safeguard the future.

[19:24] Jason Isaacs: "There is a horrifying thing to see how divided it is and how those central planks of what kept this country balanced, those checks and balances, are just being dismantled."

10. Reflections on "White Lotus"

The conversation circles back to "White Lotus," with Isaacs praising Mike White's direction and writing. He reflects on the show's impact, noting its ability to spark genuine office conversations reminiscent of classic TV phenomena like "Dallas."

[17:55] Jason Isaacs: "This series is very different to previous series. I think he's expanded his reach, his ambition as an artist. It was really... He dove into existential issues."

11. Closing Remarks and Final Thoughts

In closing, Acosta and Isaacs reaffirm the importance of truthful journalism and the vital role of artists in societal discourse. Isaacs emphasizes his dual identity as both an insider and outsider in American society, advocating for continued vigilance and activism.

[27:04] Jason Isaacs: "I'm an outsider and I'm an insider... I have the right to a voice... actors are allowed to speak out."

[27:25] Jim Acosta: "Best of luck with the movie Words of War."

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Jason Isaacs on Free Media:

  "Services that are telling the truth to people."
  [01:18]

• Discussion on "Words of War" and Anna Politkovskaya:

  "She was relentless... she just could not stop herself bearing witness because it was too important."
  [02:15]

• On Self-Censorship and Media Responsibility:

  "Journalists have a responsibility not to make up stuff."
  [11:09]

• Addressing the Decline of Democratic Institutions:

  "When someone comes in and doesn't buy into it and destroys it like with a bulldozer, we have no idea what's coming."
  [21:15]

• Encouraging Active Engagement:

  "Do something. Don't do nothing. And talk about it at dinner."
  [09:19]

• Reflecting on "White Lotus" Impact:

  "They would gather. And one of the parts of the many areas of brilliance that Mike White doesn't get attention for, is his directing."
  [16:40]

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Key Takeaways

• "Words of War" serves as a powerful narrative on the perilous state of free journalism, inspired by real-life events surrounding Anna Politkovskaya.
• Public media institutions like PBS and NPR face significant threats from governmental actions aiming to curtail their funding and independence.
• Journalistic integrity is under siege, with increased instances of self-censorship and misinformation fueled by social media.
• Artists and the public are urged to take active roles in defending democratic values and the free press through community engagement and advocacy.
• "White Lotus" exemplifies the influential role of television in sparking societal conversations and reflecting deeper existential and political issues.

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Conclusion: This episode of "The Jim Acosta Show" with Jason Isaacs serves as a poignant reminder of the indispensable role that truth-telling and free journalism play in maintaining democratic societies. Through discussions about his film "Words of War," the threats faced by public media, and the broader implications for democracy and free speech, Isaacs underscores the urgent need for vigilance and active participation in safeguarding these fundamental institutions.

Transcript

[Jason Isaacs]

Let's do it.

[Jim Acosta]

Okay.

[Jason Isaacs]

All right, go ahead.

[Jim Acosta]

All right. Welcome, everybody, to the Jim Acosta show, where it's an embarrassment of riches in terms of guests. Today we have the star of White Lotus and the political thriller Words of War, Jason Isaacs. Jason, of course, played Timothy Ratliff, the spiraling, pill popping and occasionally pantsless dad in season three of White Lotus. He was also, of course, Lucius Malfoy in the Harry Potter movies. He's here to talk about Words of War, which is a completely different project. Jason, great to see you. Thanks for coming on.

[Jason Isaacs]

No, it's a pleasure. And it's, I see that sign behind you, as your audience will see, you know, Jim Acosta in a Free Press. And that's what this film is about. And we're talking on a day, I don't know when people watch this, where it's never more appropriate to talk about that because an executive order just came from the White House to cancel all funding for public media for essentially for an independent free press.

[Jim Acosta]

That's right. And I do want to talk to you about, but since you mentioned it, you're absolutely right. I mean, the arts are under attack here in Washington. The AP is reporting the. This morning, Trump signed an executive order aiming to slash public subsidies to PBS and NPR as he alleged bias in their reporting. The order instructs the Corporation for Public Broadcasting, other federal agencies to, quote, cease federal funding for NPR and pbs. I mean, Jason, you're, you, the only.

[Jason Isaacs]

Services that are telling the truth to people.

[Jim Acosta]

Exactly.

[Jason Isaacs]

Free from commercial constraints.

[Jim Acosta]

That's right. We do a little of that here, but. Right, but you're absolutely, I mean, you're a Britain. We were just talking about this before we got going. In Great Britain, you have the BBC, you have public broadcasting. It's, it's, it's what's expected by the citizens.

[Jason Isaacs]

Sure. I mean, look, it's not that the BBC is perfect by any means. There's a, there's all kinds of question marks over it and what it does with its money and what, what its own political biases are. But, but there's just. Not to be too cheesy and get back on the soapbox, but the film is about a remarkable woman, an ordinary woman. She was a human interest journalist who was sent to a war zone to try and pick a couple of human interest stories. Her name's Anna Polikovskaya in Russia in the early 2000s, and she discovered that the country had been lied to, that Putin had lied, actually ended up using, he started using the same playbook he used in Ukraine years later, pretended they were invading a country that had full of fascists, didn't tell the Russian population what was being done in their name. She discovered mass graves, evidence of mass rape, torture, starvation, all the rest of it. And she started to tell the public because she was working for one of the very few independent free media outlets in Russia. And in the end, she lost her life for it. They poisoned her at first, and she meant she was relentless, no matter that it destroyed her marriage and her relationship with her kids and stuff. And she just could not stop herself bearing witness because it was too important. And I was at the White House Correspondents dinner last weekend. I don't know if you were there also. And the president was very notable by his absence. I've been there when President Obama was there, when President Biden were there. And they were very clear when they gave the speeches to the assembled journalists, that as much as they hated having their feet held to the flame, as much as they really were very worried by the people in the room and what they did to them and made discomfort, it was the central pillar of a free democracy in the west, that we should have free press and they should have access. Of course, AP that you just mentioned does not have access to the White House anymore.

[Jim Acosta]

That's right.

[Jason Isaacs]

No, and that's one of the ways the measures of a slide from democracy into autocracy is access and the ability to broadcast.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah, I mean, I. I skipped the correspondence dinner this past weekend. I mean, I. I had other plans, I'll put it that way. But I was also not happy that. That the correspondence dinner was happening, you know, in the. In the fashion that it was. Because when.

[Jason Isaacs]

Well, you missed something, I have to say. Yeah. Journalism became center stage, you know, the other years that I've been there. What television shows is the comedy speech and the president being funny and stuff like that. Yeah, yeah. Actually, it meant that powerful, important, independent journalism was. Was what the evening was about. And only that.

[Jim Acosta]

Well, that's good.

[Jason Isaacs]

Very speech by Eugene Daniels at the end. He said, he said, you know, we don't invite the president here for entertainment. We don't invite him here because we want to bow down to them. We invite them here to see what the First Amendment is all about.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah.

[Jason Isaacs]

And we are not the enemy of the people, and we are not the enemy of the state. And they are the central. You know, you journalists who get to speak the truth to power and to the rest of us are the central pillar of what keeps us free in the World.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah, well, and the movie is important because it is about the murder of the Russian journalist Anna Politzkov. Kaya. And let's show a clip of that and talk about it.

[Jason Isaacs]

Okay.

[C]

Did you know that the war between Russia and Chechnya is the longest ongoing conflict in the world? Now the Kremlin wants the world to believe that Russia is waging a war. War against terrorists. Its real purpose is a dedicated campaign of genocide. I'm a journalist.

[Jason Isaacs]

Journalist.

[C]

The tactics employed by the Kremlin is itself creating a wave of violence that has never been experienced. Oh, my God.

[Jason Isaacs]

The war has come home. People are killing each other. You get in the middle and you're dead too. Chechnya's your baby, while this newspaper is mine.

[C]

There is nothing of value apart from the truth. And I do not intend to stop.

[Jim Acosta]

Looks incredible, Jason. I mean, and you hit the nail right on the head. I mean, this is a cautionary tale. We were talking about this with Sean Penn and, and Eric Swalwell.

[Jason Isaacs]

Sean and Eric Swallow came on board when they saw the film because, you know, Eric championed the bill that didn't pass eventually in Congress for protection of journalists, protection of the press. And Sean has long been a champion of that. And so they came on board and we're doing Q and as in fact, all weekend cinemas in New York and Los Angeles to try and, you know, generate interest. Yeah.

[Jim Acosta]

And I mean, it shows what happens when the government can crush the press. And that's what took place in Russia. And people think, oh, it's always been this way. I mean, there was that glimpse, that period during Boris Yeltsin where things were opening up. You and I are old enough to remember that it wasn't a perfect democracy or anything like that, but there was hope for Russia. And then Putin came in and slammed the door shut on it. And this was just.

[Jason Isaacs]

Look, people, many journalists get killed in Russia and around the world in the last year. More, more than ever. They're also put on trial. They're also sued. Carol Cadwaller in England was sued, not just the Guardian newspaper. She personally had to raise her own war chest to fight that, but the self censorship, certainly commercial organizations, the people who are not fun, NPR and pbs. You know, the people. You saw, the people getting rid of their own DEI departments when they weren't under mandate for it for the White House. You know, people are aware of who's in what, what the t. The cultural tide is around them. And they don't want to say things to stick out. I was advised, for instance, to clear all my social media accounts. And I know that's what a lot of people being told who have been in any way outspoken politically previously, and it's that atmosphere of self.

[Jim Acosta]

There's something wrong as dangerous, isn't there? Something wrong with. That's a little scary.

[Jason Isaacs]

It's a little scary. You know, it's terrifying that things like that should matter when I. I work in America all the time. I pay taxes in America, My daughter's American. And, you know, I love this country. Many of the things this country stands stood for. But I'm told, you know, you really shouldn't be outspoken at all about politics because you might not get a working visa. Well, you know, I remember being. This is going back a long time. I remember being in 2003, I think, in a hotel somewhere, and there were a bunch of lobbyists, Washington lobbyists, and they said, are you going back to America or England? I said, I'm going back to England. And I'm quite looking forward to it because, you know, we're about to evade Iraq again. And I. I feel like I want to be around a healthy debate. I want to hear all sides of everything. They went, I don't agree. And I went, sorry, what do you mean? They said, and this was two very smart young women who are political lobbyists in Washington. I don't. During the war, I just think you should absolutely support your side and support the troops. And I went, During a war is the time when it's most important to discuss what you're doing, why your young men and some women are being killed to put their lives on, and why they're killing other people, often in larger numbers. That's the very time they go, I completely disagree. Well, that attitude you now see multiplied exponentially, that maybe you shouldn't speak out when there might be personal ramifications for you. And, you know, these are difficult times when the fabric of what's kept the world at peace are being pulled apart. It's the very time that everything needs to be examined very closely because there are dire consequences for all of us, for AI and for world peace.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah. What can artists do in this moment, do you think, Jason? Because we're seeing Trump go after the Kennedy center for the Performing Arts. They're going after funding for artists, libraries.

[Jason Isaacs]

The NEH is essentially gone. And we were. I was lobbying in Washington last week for the National Endowment for the Arts. It does extraordinary things, actually, for the things that Republicans really care about, you know, preserving America's heritage, for treating veterans with ptsd. A whole bunch of community projects they would care about. But this is just a scythe and machete being cut through things. What can we do? Something. The answer is something. Doing nothing just makes you feel bad. If you do nothing and you read all the news all the time, you just feel depressed and scared. If you do something, whether it could be feeding your next door neighbor who nobody visits anymore, or it can be something on a local level, or it can be donating money, or it could just be phoning your representative and saying, I'm upset about this and I will be voting for this next time. Make your local representative aware of the things you care about, but do something. Don't do nothing. And talk about it at dinner.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah, and I do want to go back to the correspondence dinner weekend because you were here and as you said, you're a veteran going to these events in Washington. I hear you ran into the press secretary, Caroline Levitt. What was that?

[Jason Isaacs]

I did, actually, outside the White House. We'd been to the White House to listen. We very people were very receptive. The staffers we met were very receptive to our arguments about why the arts are important for the entire community, that they're not a politically divisive. It's an apolitical subject. And then I saw somewhere on a newspaper, I had been at the White House correspondent's breakfast, the Tammy Haddad holds every year that everybody goes to from across. Right across the aisle. And I'd made a joke about White Lotus. I was presenting and honoring these extraordinary firefighters who had, you know, after the terrible aviation crash there. And I said, you know, sometimes I get to play heroes, selfless heroes like these men here. And sometimes I get to play privileged, elitist, rich scumbags like. Like nobody here today, obviously. Some very irresponsible journalist. Yeah, some very. He got a laugh. I'm always looking for the cheap gag. Some terrible journalist somehow conflated that within the evening. Me on the red carpet saying, you know, I was here when Obama was here and here when Biden's here, Trump's not here, saying that I had called President Trump a scumbag. I didn't. I didn't do that because he's president of America and I wish him the best. I don't like the things he does very often, but he is the most powerful man in the free world, and I hope he does things for the benefit of all America and all the world. And it's rotten journalists because actually has dire consequences for me, possibly professionally, possibly personally. Someone will think that. And you know, people get very physical about these things. Journalists have a responsibility not to make up stuff. Because I've been in the White Lotus in the last two months, I've done a billion interviews. And sometimes I said dumb things or try to be funny. And in print it doesn't look that funny. But. But a couple of times mornings I woke up and I would read an interview that was completely fictitious. Like, literally not someone I met with things I have never would never say. And, like, people get killed for, like, that.

[Jim Acosta]

So we're not doing that here. This is why.

[Jason Isaacs]

But I'm saying I did meet the White House. I did meet the White House press secretary. I had called Sean Spicer Goebbels previously. I didn't call her that to her face, but, you know, I'm trying to be civil to lady German. You know, the worst thing you can do is shut down debate and shut down discussion. Just shout someone down, as I see happen often around the issue of the Middle east, for instance. You know, and the most important thing we have in a democracy is the ability to discuss things, because you don't get that in other countries. Look what happened to Anna Polit.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah, no, I agree with you. And since you brought up White Lotus, I mean, we, we. I can't, you know, not talk about this. The elephant in the room, perhaps we'll put it that way. But, yeah, I got a cheap laugh, too. There you go.

[Jason Isaacs]

We're.

[Jim Acosta]

We're old enough to tell the dad jokes and we can just go back and forth. But the first of all, you're Brit, but you play guy from Duke, as Parker Posey would say, from Durham, North Carolina.

[Jason Isaacs]

He's actually very, very specifically from Durham. Yeah, yeah.

[Jim Acosta]

How did you pull that off? I mean, you know, and also the.

[Jason Isaacs]

Oh, I love the accent of the.

[Jim Acosta]

Lorazepam and every, you know, the Laraz.

[Jason Isaacs]

How do I pop the Razban off? You know, I was a drug addict for a long time. That was easy. No, the truth is that I love an accent. I've had lots of different accents in my life. One of the reasons I'm an actor, I'm sure just to play my own therapist and pop psychologist, is that when I was younger, I really wasn't sure who to be or how to be. I'm not sure. I. I am now. And I would change who I was in every group. What they call code switching now. So I've had a bunch of different accents in my life, and I love it. It's. It's my way into a Character. So. So Durham is a very interesting place. The blue blooded Americans who can trace themselves back to the Mayflower there, they have a couple of vowel sounds that are hangovers from the colonial days. So they have a dip on the O sound. People making fun of Parker all the time going, piper, no, that O sound is very English. And. And then the other sound is the off sound. So Americans say God. The Americans say God, not God. And the certain type of people in, in Durham who want to sound like their grandfather, they say God not, which is very English. And so when I was doing it, there were a bunch of people online going, this guy doesn't sound American at all. So sounds English or Australian. I just, it was frustrating because people from Durham would come finding me all the time in person and online going, oh, my God, you sound exactly like my dad.

[Jim Acosta]

And there are all these Instagram videos. Yeah, there are all these Instagram videos. I'm sure you've seen some of them where they'll hand somebody, you know, grandmother lines from White Lotus to see if they sound like Parker Posey or, or like you.

[Jason Isaacs]

Nobody sounds. Nobody sounds like Parker Posey. To be fair, you'd have to get on one of Jeff Bezos's, you know, Jupiter shots to find that. But she created a grotesquely brilliant comic Persona. And you'd be hard pressed to find anybody who spoke like that, I think.

[Jim Acosta]

But apparently the folks at Duke, if I can bring this. Kill me if I.

[Jason Isaacs]

If I'm furious at me.

[Jim Acosta]

They're. They're so pissed at you. What happened?

[Jason Isaacs]

Yeah, well, we were trying to work out what he would wear to bed, and I didn't want to wear pajamas. That's a bit corny. And I thought, well, I know a lot of people who still decades afterwards wear all their college stuff. And in fact, with the Ratliffs, I'm pretty sure there'd be a Ratliff Library and a Ratliff Wing at Duke. And, you know, he'll give money and stuff. And so I said, let's wear a Duke T shirt. They got clearance. Of course they got clearance. You don't do stuff on TV without clearance. And then when I was killing myself and killing my family, some person at Duke who wanted to see their name on the Internet, whatever went. We're really upset about the implication that, you know, it's very irresponsible suicide. I'm going to go, dude, look at your alumni. There are some real life notorious people wearing Duke T shirts. You should worry about that for you. Well, I wasn't Going to name him because I don't want to wake up and find him at my front door or any of his thugs. But yeah, him and others too. There are bigger things to worry about than a fictitious TV show. But I did. On the other hand, I was stuck at Charlotte Airport and the only stuff that was available because my bags didn't come through was, was, was Juke Merch. I bought one with the devils on it that, you know, and I wore it. Then I got in trouble for that. Now people are giving me Duke T shirts and I'm going to wear it whenever I see a camera.

[Jim Acosta]

Good.

[Jason Isaacs]

Well.

[Jim Acosta]

And it's a very Duke University thing to do to go after you for, you know, wearing a Duke T shirt. I mean, I just have to say.

[Jason Isaacs]

I think I'm being blamed for them losing the game. That's what it is. And it's really not my fault I wasn't there. I was busy at the finale premiere.

[Jim Acosta]

Cooper flag in line one.

[Jason Isaacs]

No, but I think there goes my honorary degree from Duke that I was hoping for.

[Jim Acosta]

You'll have to hope for Chapel Hill, but in the mean. But, but White Lotus. I mean you've done so many great roles over the years. I mean, including in Words of War which, which looks terrific. But I mean, are you a little surprised that this blew up the way it did?

[Jason Isaacs]

The White Lotus, the scale of it was, was shocking to me. You know, I, I, I, my, my lovely kids in the show, Patrick, Sam and Sarah, Catherine allowed me to patronize them or bring my, or bring my Yoda like wisdom to the table, whatever, around various different areas about being an actor, particularly slightly Buddhist and tithers, but, but about enjoying the moment and there never being a destination. It was all journey and not to be thinking about what this might do for their career or not. No. Maybe no one was going to watch it and maybe it was going to come out the day after some general natural disaster or terrorist act or who knew? So just to enjoy the fact we were in Thailand and we're making this extraordinary thing with these people that we like so much. But then it did actually blow up enormously. And, and I'm suddenly lost for words because I never see anything like it. I've been, I'm in the Harry Potter films. They obviously were a global phenomenon, but I still had never seen anything like the kind of blue touch paper and spread like this.

[Jim Acosta]

The way, and some of this is the social media, the way it spreads via social media. Because Harry Potter had some of that. But I think just all the videos of you and Parker and the others in the cast.

[Jason Isaacs]

It is Jim, but I don't know. I mean, people were having watch parties and people were actually talking about it at a water cooler. That. That notional thing. I studied law originally and you would talk all the time about what is a reasonable man think. And they talked about the man on the Clapham omnibus that was thought to be the average person. That's what judges refer to. Well, we talk about water cooler conversations, but they haven't really happened for decades. Not since, you know, Dynasty or Dallas or whatever. This was a water that genuinely. People would gather and talk about it in offices. They would gather. And one of the parts of the many areas of brilliance that Mike White doesn't get attention for, one is his directing. People talk about his writing all the time, but he creates an atmosphere of play and improvisation and. And madness, frankly, and anarchy that allows these things to be so human. But the other thing is that he knows how to write. Weekly television show. Now you can binge it on Max. It's still great, but a week in between, like Dickens who was serialized, allowed it for. Allowed it time to marinate and percolate, to be able to be frustrated and all these nuts theories to come out all over the Internet where people had, you know, the monkeys did it, whatever. And then bizarrely recently, people are desperately want to pick apart the actual relationships between the actors as if they're in any way as interesting as the world that Mike created. You know, we're just a bunch of boring gifts. Who cares what we did on holiday, you know?

[Jim Acosta]

No. And the Dallas analogy is so good because who shot Junior? I mean that, that was a phenomenon back in the day. And the brilliant thing about White Lotus is you're waiting until the end of the season who dies, who does, you know, who's the floating body and.

[Jason Isaacs]

But I mean, that's a brilliant red herring because the truth is it's not a who done it or it's not a why done it or who got it done. To them, really, that's just a fabulous conduit for Mike to use his extraordinary powers as a kind of social satirist, social comment, you know, an excavator of the human condition. This series is very different to previous series. I think he's expanded his. His reach, his ambition as an artist. It was really. He dove into existential issues. I mean, yes, it's rich people who are coming to rent spiritual growth in many instances, but me, my character, oh my God, not, not interested at all in Anything spiritual, enlightened. He's slumming it by staying in this hotel. They normally rent a mansion on an island, but.

[Jim Acosta]

And you're spiraling. I said spiraling at the beginning.

[Jason Isaacs]

Yeah. Delivers to him the greatest spiritual journey that anybody's ever had in a season of white lotus. It goes.

[Jim Acosta]

And there's so many guys in our age group who can totally relate to this dad. Where things just are falling apart and coming apart and you can't put it back together.

[Jason Isaacs]

Well, hopefully there's not that many people who have the utter calamities of being completely wiped out and thinking of murdering their entire family. But you're right. We see ourselves through the prism of someone experiencing the same thing writ large. I think that's. Yeah.

[Jim Acosta]

Jason, I have to ask you just to get serious again, because you mentioned you're a Brit, but you have a lot of affection for America and ties.

[Jason Isaacs]

To America, many of the principles this country was set up for and many of the checks and balances built into the Constitution and the government that are currently being dismantled as we speak. Yeah.

[Jim Acosta]

And I know you've been advised, you know, be careful about what you say and what you post. And so it sounds like. I know too late. But you're, you are. You are concerned. And I hear this from a lot of folks that I talk to overseas. They are very concerned about what's happening here. They see us as the big brother.

[Jason Isaacs]

When I speak out about it. Sorry to interrupt. So when I speak out about it, when I previously spoken out about it, I used to post much more politically, I don't bother now. I've been persuaded that the, the, you know, social media is just for revolting, solipsistic narcissism. So I'm posting interviews with me and stuff. But when I speak, you know, when I think about it, first of all, there is a tide of people go, shut up. What's it got to do with you? You're not American. Well, what America does and what America has done for 75 years is keep world peace and do a lot of phenomenal good in the world. Done a lot of terrible things also. Every country has. But you know that these institutions, flawed as they are, NATO, the United nations, but, and I have many criticisms of both of those things, have kept world peace. There are. There's enough nuclear weapons around to destroy the world a billion times over. AI is a much bigger threat. If those people who don't know about it don't bother looking into it, it will scare and depress you. But those people who are at the heart of it. I've had conversations with them, the founders of DeepMind and Google Brain and other things. The unguard railed version of what they are releasing could unquestionably destroy the world as we know it. And they are responsible institutions or trying to be responsible. And we don't know what Iran and China and other non governmental actors can do and what they're building. And so we need unity and we need leadership more than we've ever, ever needed it before for our own future, for our children's future. So that's as being an outsider, being an insider, as someone who works here and loves what this country has stood for and shown the world also. It's a horrifying thing to see how divided it is and how those central planks of what kept this country balanced, those checks and balances, are just being dismantled. Someone has come in with a sledgehammer and gone fine. It's always been done this way and. But it's a bit like money. Money's not a real thing. Money is a belief system. And so it says on it, I promise to pay the bearer. You know that it only works when we all buy into it. Same with Bitcoin, only works when you will buy into it. And, and democracy only works when you all buy into it. When someone comes in and doesn't buy into it and destroys it like with a bulldozer, we have no idea what's coming. And, and what's happened in the last hundred odd days has been shocking to, to everybody on all sides. Shocking to many, many Republican friends of mine and Republican representatives I was able to talk to this last weekend. And they are not speaking out. And they're not speaking out because they're fearful of being primaried out of their.

[Jim Acosta]

Job, you know, but they, they express concerns privately.

[Jason Isaacs]

Many, many people and their staff did too. But they'll be primaried out of position. This is an administration full of loyalists and if you're not a loyalist and pretend to be, you will no longer be inside the tent. And this is people's living and livelihood. And so it reminds me a lot of the death of Stalin, which was a broad social satire. But many of the situations I see I'm seeing paralleled here today and it's.

[Jim Acosta]

Truly terrifying in the film Words of War. Also, I think it has to be a reminder to people about what we're dealing with with the Russians and that this is building for many, many years. And what Putin has been doing has been building for many, many years. And this is the sort of the beginning stages of it. This is the preview of.

[Jason Isaacs]

This is his playbook. The playbook he used to tell the Russian people lies about why they needed to invade Chechnya and what the Chechnyans were is identical to the playbook he used in Ukraine. And she, Anna Politkovsky was the first person to tell Russians that. And they listened, they were interested. And one of the other problems in, in today's world in America and in Britain is that we only listen to people who tell us what we want to hear. And those august institutions that have been around for a century that will only print when they've got three independent sources of corroboration have been their faith in them has been so terribly undermined, not just by this White House, but by other autocrats and right leaning individuals and definitely individuals around the world that the people doing the great work that telling the truth to the people putting their lives on the line and certainly the livelihoods here are not even being listened to or believed. And it's an extremely worrying. Worrying is a horrible euphemistic understatement. It's a terrifying situation to be in.

[Jim Acosta]

No, and I talk about this and the importance of the free press all the time on this show. And it, you kind of come across as self righteous and on the soapbox and so on. But I mean, you know, if you.

[Jason Isaacs]

You'Re not on the ground in Europe, Jim, let me tell you, I was watching one of our, one of our institutional shows, Newsnight. It's a show that's on every night on 1030 weekdays on the BBC and they, and they have serious journalists on it. And unlike in this country, government ministers and the prime minister will always submit themselves to questions from, from quite aggressive journalists. Often they should. Just a month or two ago there was the ex head of MI6 that our foreign service, the CIA talking very seriously on a mainstream news program, not some French place about how Europe needs to get their army together because we could defeat Russia in a ground war, but we need to have a single leader. And I was thinking am I really watching a show on nightly news about how we, we might be in a ground war with Russia? Where did that come from? Well, it came from President Trump having aped, having, having parroted President Putin's talking points about why he invaded Ukraine just the day before and Europe realizing they were being abandoned and NATO was being abandoned and the thing that had held the world at peace was possibly being abandoned. And we had to think for ourselves, not just hey, we have a Discussion about budget. And you just spent. No, no. That possibly the world order was being ripped up without any sense for what would replace it.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah. And that's why, I mean, I personally am a little suspicious of this peace process, because how do you have a real peace process if Zelensky does not have a full seat at the table? He has been having discussions with Trump and apparently they have this minerals deal and so on. But JD Vance apparently was out today in an interview with CNBC saying, well, the war is going to be going on for, for a long time. It's not going to be ending any, anytime soon. And, you know, you just get the sense, you know, at just about every turn that, you know, it's advantage Putin when it comes to how the Trump White House is dealing with this.

[Jason Isaacs]

It's as if he's writing the White House's press releases almost every day. And then that, that grotesque scene where Vance and Trump bullied Zielinski like they were playground bullies. He's not wearing a suit. His country's at war. He's a simple, He's a symbol of his country. Who cares if he's wearing a tie? People are getting slaughtered. There are graves, there are, you know, torture. There's, there's all kinds of things that no one in the west can imagine happening to them. But, but happens. And one of the brilliant things. Irresponsible words.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah. One of the brilliant things about social media is that after that happened, after that shameful exchange occurred, there were all these pictures of, of, of Prime Minister Churchill, you know, at the White House with FDR not wearing a suit. You know, so. Come on, give me a break, guys.

[Jason Isaacs]

But it was, it was a planned ambush. So, yeah, it's a very scary time. But there are still in this country many noble people, many Republicans. It's a party that has stood for and done great things in the past. And it just, it's time to speak up. It's not time to hide.

[Jim Acosta]

Yeah. Well, Jason, I really appreciate your time. I mean, the film is brilliant. You're brilliant as always. And it's, it's just a treat to get to sit down with you and talk to you about all of this because, you know, and I, and I, I'm glad that you were able to share so much of what you're thinking is behind all of these subjects because Americans need to hear this. They need to hear from the outside world. It just can't be voices screaming at each other.

[Jason Isaacs]

Well, I'm an outsider and I'm an insider. You know, I have an American daughter, and my most of my work has been here. I pay my taxes here, so I have the right to a voice. When people say, shut up, you're an actor, I want to go, there's a reality star in the Oval Office, so actors are allowed to speak out.

[Jim Acosta]

And as we know, reality TV is not reality. So there's that as well, that's for sure. And he's a bit detached from it. But, Jason, great to talk to you. Thank you so much.

[Jason Isaacs]

Really appreciate it.

[Jim Acosta]

Best of luck with the movie Words of War. Jason Isaacs, thanks so much.