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- [00:00]
A
If there is a shutdown, I think.
- [00:02]
B
It would be a tremendously negative mark.
- [00:05]
A
On the President of the United States.
- [00:07]
B
He's the one that has to get people together.
- [00:12]
A
All right, welcome to the Jim Acosta show. And it's another day that ends in Y and Donald Trump's assault on democracy in America. Trump and his aides are in the process of invading more Democratic cities with ICE officers and National Guard members from other states. The latest flashpoints, of course, are Chicago and Portland, Oregon. Meanwhile, the government is still shut down here in Washington. We're waiting to see if there's any end in sight to that. Both sides are still going at one another. And obviously, as we have stated on this program time and again, this is a MAGA shutdown. Republicans control the White House. They control the House, they control the Senate. And so we're going to just state things as they are and instead of both sidesing this, this crisis as others do. But my big guest this hour is David Hogg. We all know David Hogg. He's a bit of a rabble rouser, you might say, among progressive Democrats. And David has a relatively brand new group that he started. He's the co founder of a new group of young progressives called Leaders We Deserve. David, good to see you. Thanks for coming on.
- [01:16]
B
Of course. Thanks for having me, Jim.
- [01:18]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, I mean, you know, lots of different places to start. I don't know if you saw this earlier today. And I do want to get into the fact that your group has just come out with new endorsements of a variety of candidates in different districts that are held by Democrats primarily at this point. But I'm just, what are your thoughts on this shutdown? And you know, one of the questions that I've had, David, is whether Democrats are going for enough here. You know, they've been talking about Obamacare, subsidies, that sort of a thing, which is important that there's no question about it. We can't, you know, you don't want health care costs going up for people who are on Obamacare. But I mean, with, with Trump invading cities, ICE going wild, it seems to me the Democrats could be asking for a whole lot more in this process. Your thoughts?
- [02:04]
B
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, there, there certainly is more that they could be asking for. But at minimum, it's important that they know that our red line is that we are not going to allow the subsidies for the Affordable Care act that helped cover about 75% of people's premiums to lapse. That is our line in the sand because it is unacceptable to us that, you know, as Donald Trump spends hundreds of billions of dollars more on growing the police state while claiming to be against a tyrannical government, they are simultaneously trying to cut health care for 22 million Americans. And not just those Americans that rely on the Affordable Care act, the health care. It's important to remember that the private health care system is an ecosystem. Just because you aren't on Obamacare or the Affordable Care act doesn't mean that your premiums aren't going to rise as well if these subsidies are cut. And we need people to know that that's our line in the sand, at minimum, that there is no deal to be made if the cost of it is 22 million people and their health care.
- [03:04]
A
Yeah, I mean, I guess the thought process is that as health care costs rise for everybody, if you're in Obamacare, if you're not in Obamacare, if those premium go up for people who are on Obamacare, that that is going to get, you know, there's going to be a ripple effect. We're all going to have to pick up the cost of that. Let's just jump right into what you've been up to, David, because you've got this group leaders we deserve. And I guess inside the Democratic Party, they've been bracing themselves for this. But you've endorsed four rising progressive leaders. Michigan State Representative Donovan McKinney for Congress in Michigan's 13th district, Harris County Attorney Christian Menefee for Congress in Texas's 18th district, Randy Villegas for Congress in California's 22nd district. And you're also endorsing a candidate for the Georgia state house in District 106 in Georgia. And what's interesting about all of these candidates, David, is that they're much younger than me. I guess the average age is baby Congress. Jim, they're around. They are eligible for Congress, but they're in their early to mid-30s. Why do these endorsements? Why, why take this step?
- [04:14]
B
So we, we decided today to make our latest round of endorsements as a slate, which is pretty unusual for our organization. We typically do one at a time. And we did this as a slate because we want people to know the types of races we're involved in. Some of the races that we're going to be involved in this cycle, we're going to be challenging the Democratic incumbent, such as Sri tanadar, who Donovan McKinney is challenging in a safe blue seat that is almost certainly going to remain Democratic. And some of them, they're going to be in red to blue seats like Randy Viegas is, which is a seat critical for Democrats to win in order to take back the House so that we can start to hold Donald Trump accountable and put up a, a much bigger fight than strongly worded letters against what they're doing. And it represents to you some of the work we do in state legislatures where Akbar Ali would be the youngest person elected ever to the Georgia state legislature at the age of 2021, after our most recent, recent endorsee, Bryce Berry in Georgia became the youngest ever at the age of 23 for the state legislature there. And then we also have obviously Christian Matthew's race and in that district. What's really interesting about that is the pre, the two previous members who served that district, both of them died in Congress one after. To the point that the people in that district arguably really haven't had any representation for just about two years now because their members have literally been perpetually dying. And Christian has a great track record of holding the Trump administration accountable in court and winning, taking on polluters. There's a lot of oil refineries in Houston, obviously that are notorious for poisoning communities because of the air pollution and other toxins that get into the environment. And he's worked to hold them accountable. And these are the type of candidates that we're looking to support. People who, for example, when they say they aren't going to take corporate money, continue to not take corporate money. Sri Tanadar then went into corporate money after saying that he wouldn't. That is not the type of person that we believe belongs in Congress and what we're trying to do with the work here at Leaders we deserve. It's not to say that Congress is supposed to be full of just 25 year olds. That would be a disaster. But it's to say maybe we need a new generation to come in and help to light a fire under Democrats, to make sure that we aren't just justifying our governance based off of the amount of harm that we aren't doing, but based off the amount of good that, that we're doing and how we're working to ensure that people have faith in government, not because of how bad Republicans are at running it, but because of how good we are at making it actually work.
- [06:34]
A
Yeah, I mean, and there's something to be said for having young youngblood coming into the party. I mean, Maxwell Frost has been a very effective member of Congress, very effective spokesman for young progressives. I mean, AOC is kind of the, the latest blueprint. I Suppose or prototype for this type of member of Congress. And I think you're right. I think a lot of people, and I've noticed this on my show, is that one of the prevailing comments that we see from time to time is that there are people frustrated with the leadership in the Democratic Party. And they see a lot of members who have been around for a long, long time. They get comfortable in these seats. They don't take a lot of chances. And so you end up with sort of status quo, you know, on steroids. And I guess, how do you make these selections? How did you pick and choose these? Did you say, okay, this guy over here is not doing a whole lot?
- [07:23]
B
Let's.
- [07:24]
A
What about that district? How does that work?
- [07:26]
B
I mean, the way it works is when we look, obviously we are. Our top priority is making sure that we're supporting candidates who are good at their jobs, not just because they're young necessarily. Sometimes in some districts, it may be an older person who's better there. What we look for is somebody like a Maxwell Frost. He's actually who our organization was modeled after, because I hired him when he was at March for Our Lives, when he started working at March for Our Lives when I was a freshman in college. And then he told me he wanted to run for Congress when I was in my junior year. And I told him, I said to him, I was like, you know, you're 24, right? You have to be 25 to be elected to Congress. He said, yes, I'll be old enough by the time I'm elected. And in Maxwell's case, the reason why he was the right person for that district wasn't simply because he was 25 years old. It's because he had a decade of experience working in the gun violence prevention movement since he was 15 years old, doing advocacy, even with some of the survivors from Sandy Hook to challenge the nra, to challenge our elected officials to pass stronger gun laws. And then he went on to work at the ACLU holding Biden accountable on the Hyde Amendment. And he had a proven track record. And his opponents just, frankly, were not good. One of them rarely showed up in the state legislature when he was serving there and had one of the worst attendance records of anybody. Then on top of that, the two he was running against, two former members of Congress, one of whom, both of whom were Democrats, one had committed tax fraud while in Congress and the other was a hedge fund manager while they were in Congress. And when that is the bar to entry, I think it was pretty clear in Maxwell's case that he was the right person to support there. And that's kind of the approach that we take with these candidates sometimes. It's not always necessarily going to be the youngest person in a district, but we obviously want a younger person. It's going to be the most qualified young person in that district who can really make a meaningful difference. In the case of Christian Menafee, for example, he's done a lot of great work to hold the administration accountable and, and special interests accountable. And what we're trying to do at leaders we deserve is I like to say that we're. We're like lumbar support for people with a spine. We try to find the people that take on the hard fights in state legislatures, in their districts, in, you know, other offices, or have done advocacy before that prove that they have their. They have real values that they're willing to stick by and do everything that we can to get them elected and get them across the finish line. Because I think one of the greatest threats for our democracy is. Isn't just Donald Trump. I think it's the hopelessness, the idea that so many young people have that everything is screwed and it doesn't matter what you do. In part because they don't see themselves in power, but because they don't see how government is effectively working for them because they don't have communicators out there or not nearly enough of them that are able to successfully use social media to say, actually, this is how we're using government to stand up to special interests. And I just, I don't think that we're going to be able to change the campaign finance system that holds all of these special interests together that is broken so much of our politics. If we don't start to elect some people with real financial support, like we provide them.
- [10:13]
A
Yeah.
- [10:13]
B
And have a backbone.
- [10:15]
A
No, I think you're absolutely right. And I think that, I mean, I talk about this on my show that, you know, for all the talk of Trump derangement syndrome, I worry about Trump depression syndrome.
- [10:24]
B
Right.
- [10:25]
A
And, you know, I talk about this and I mean, when talking to a lot of boomers, I'll be really honest with you, and people who are Gen Xers like myself, because they're. There are folks who've been around a long time and they're like, holy shit, how did we end up with a society where Trump's been elected for the second time and it's just becoming this dystopian nightmare? But you're right, there are a lot of young People who have just given up, too. And I think that's part of what happened in 2024, is that it was what Charlemagne the God said. They lost to the couch. The couch won in many ways. And I guess it leads me to this question, David, and I'd love to get your thoughts on it. You're just your thoughts on how the Democrats are being led right now. Chuck Schumer, Hakeem Jeffries, how they doing poorly.
- [11:06]
B
I think part of it is because it, they've become victims of Steve Bannon's approach, which is just to flood the zone and exhaust people. And when you're playing so much defense, it's hard to go on the offense, obviously, but they, we have to see more of a fight out there. I mean, there are people like Kat, who I know you interviewed last week, who are literally, you know, and people like Bushra and her race as well, who are under the age of 30. And I'm seeing more of a fight from them against the terrorization of American communities by ICE in places like Chicago than I'm seeing from 99% of the members of Congress that are out there. That is insane, because they are, if anything, they should be the ones that are least likely to go out there. They have the most to lose. They have their entire life ahead of them. But instead, what we're seeing is the opposite. The people with the most power seem to be doing the least right now to actually fight back. And we need more than strongly worded letters. We need to, we need them to go out there and say, all right, if we take back the House, this is what our subpoenas are going to look like. For example, to bring people in front of Congress and say, all right, we're going to bring in the head of ice. We're going to bring in all these other people and grill them and hold them accountable. And I think that there's more that we need to do to see them in the streets with us protesting as well, and not just on the inside of government saying, well, here's our strongly worded letter to this guy that clearly does not care at this point and be using every tool at our disposal to fight back against them, including our governors and our attorney generals, blue states around the country.
- [12:30]
A
Yeah, I mean, I think we're in a situation, I mean, Trump does not, does not take Schumer and Jeffries very seriously. He just doesn't. I mean, I think Nancy Pelosi used to drive him absolutely crazy, which I think was an attribute of hers. You know, you Saw Trump in the Oval Office with Jeffries and Schumer the other day, and he's showing them TRUMP 20, 28 hats. And I guess just over the weekend, he was speaking to people in the Navy, he. Who were gathered, I believe, down in Norfolk, and he just talked about Democrats as if they were a gnat. I think we have that video. If we have, we can play it. If not, we can just react to it. But let's. We have that video, let's play it. But we have to take care of this little gnat that's on our shoulder called the Democrats. They want to give all of our money to illegal aliens that pour into the country. And, you know, I have a bigger heart than they do, but the problem is when you do that, they come in by the millions. Everybody, everybody wants that. So you can't do it. Yeah, I mean, it's obviously full of shit there. We pointed this out many times that that's not what Democrats want. And, you know, if you are undocumented, this country, you can't get on Medicaid and all these other. Anyway, we've, we fact checked that a million times. But I mean, the thing that, to me was pertinent there is he, he regards the Democratic Party as a gnat.
- [13:42]
B
Yeah, I mean, look, it is, it's disgusting, obviously. And then we have people like, you know, Pete Hegseth going out there and saying that diversity is our, you know, effectively our weakness, which is, you know, not only just historically and factually inaccurate, it is incredibly stupid. Where they are trying to turn our country against itself, where I believe our differences actually are what makes us a strong country. There's a reason why when our country was being founded, some of the founding fathers were coming together, like Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin and others, and working on what should our national motto be for our great Seal. The one that they landed on was E Pluribus unum out of many 1. I don't think what they were thinking is that diversity is our weakness when they, when they did that. Right. And I, I think that Trump's constant dehumanization of Democrats and his political enemies, I mean, the, the attempts to politicize the military is really what concerns me there, right where he is giving this speech that is extremely political in front of all of these, you know, sailors and effectively saying that we're gonna, as he has said in the past, that we're going to deploy the military to our cities, that the enemy is within, and all these other things. And I think that frankly, the people that are made happiest by this aren't necessarily Republicans. I think it's our enemies because they know that the only way to defeat America is to turn it on itself. I think that in face of great dangers from, you know, the outside of our country, from our adversaries, we are incredibly strong. But the only way that we can be defeated is if we turn on each other and have our greatest strength, which is our diversity, weaponized against us and have our country brainwashed into thinking that that somehow is a weakness when last I checked, you know, I don't. I don't think that Pete Hegseth could be a Navajo code talker in World War II. Right. I don't think that we would have likely won the American Revolution without the incredibly critical role that female spies played for Washington and other military leaders throughout that war. And to act like that is our weakness is just incredibly stupid.
- [15:46]
A
Well, and it's. It's insane because he should not be the defense secretary. He's not qualified to be the defense secretary. He was driving a school bus. I would. I certainly want to. Wouldn't want him driving a school bus with my kids in them, given his track record. But, yeah, no, there's no question about it. So, David, let me ask you, then, the question that I guess folks in the establishment side of the Democratic Democratic Party would ask, which is, aren't you just sowing division in the party, and is that helpful? What do you say when you hear that?
- [16:20]
B
Look, I think that we have to hammer out our differences through our primaries and then consolidate around the Democratic nominee, whether that's on the left side of our party, like Zoran, of whom we were one of the largest financial supporters, we gave them $300,000 to support that campaign. And on top of that. So I'd say on the left side, we have to consolidate around that. And then if there's a more conservative Democrat, even if I don't necessarily fully agree with them, we have to make sure that we're able to gain power to preserve our democracy at the end of the day. And that's really the main red line that I think that we need to have. And what I would say is that if. If this isn't the answer, to try to turn things around, if you want to just constantly focus on our messaging over and over and over again, like we've tried to say since before I was born in the year 2000, you can go ahead and do that. I just don't.
- [17:06]
A
Just had a heart attack anyway. Sorry, David. Keep going.
- [17:08]
B
No, No, I, I just don't think that we're going to find a way out of this unless we really hammer this out through our primaries in our safe seats. Let me, let me be extremely clear about what we're doing here with leaders we deserve. When we do challenge a Democratic number, it is not going to be somebody that is in a purple seat simply because I, you know, I, or this organization doesn't necessarily agree with them. Look, there's plenty of Democrats that I think need to be better on guns but are in purple seats that we're not going to be challenging because we need those seats in order to gain back the House. What we're focused on is getting the most effective Democrats elected in seats like Michigan, the one that we're working in with Donovan McKinney to, to challenge people like Shri Thanadar because he's got such bad constituent services alone that he is having member other Democratic members of Congress in neighboring districts like Rashida Tlaib tweet at him asking him to get better at his constituent services because so many people are asking them for help. And on top of that, he's also spent nearly million dollars in taxpayer dollars on self promoting ads in the district. That's crazy. And I, if the establishment wants to go out there and defend him and say like that's something that we absolutely need more of in Congress, be my guest. But I think you just proved why you shouldn't be part of our establishment anymore. If you think that's the case.
- [18:27]
A
And speaking of mom Donnie, why do you think there are so many establishment Democrats who didn't rally around him? I mean, I'm looking at what's taking place in New York. And yes, I'm not on the ground there every day. I don't live there anymore. Love the city, but I'm not there anymore. But you have establishment Democratic politicians not getting behind him when he won the goddamn primary. And he's telegenic, he's personable. I see him on tv, he's whip smart. It sounds like he sounds like the kind of party person the Democratic Party needs right now. And it's New York, of course it's more progressive. What did you make of some of these establishment figures not getting behind Mamadani?
- [19:03]
B
Well, it reminded me of a lot of the conversations I had when I was in the DNC where it feels a bit like in this party, you know, we have all these people that say that we want to win back young people but they don't want to talk about the number one issue that was being protested about on college campuses in the lead up to the 2024 election, which was Israel, Gaza. Right. They don't want to talk about that. They say that they want to win back young people, but they want to tell them. When they tell. When those young people tell us that the president's too old, we say to them, no, he's not. Look at him. He's super strong. He's. He's got everything together. And then we tell him, actually, he is, but vote for Kamala Harris. Then when they tell us that prices are too high, we say, no, it's not. Look at the stock market. You know, be happy about that. When they're seeing their rent skyrocket and it's incredibly hard for them to get a job. If you tell people not to leave their eyeballs or wallets, no matter their age, you're gonna lose them no matter how much you spend on ads telling them otherwise and hoping that you can just gaslight the country and that into materially different conditions than they're facing.
- [19:58]
A
Yeah, I got news. I got news for everybody. Trump's not the only one who's full of shit around here.
- [20:02]
B
Right?
- [20:02]
A
I mean, that's just, you know, that's how it is.
- [20:05]
B
And it's not to say like, oh, yeah, like both sides are the same, because that's not true. But I agree. Yeah, we need to actually deal with the realities that voters are telling us they're facing. Because in politics, it's not a matter of what you, what you've gotten done, unfortunately, it's a matter of what people think you've gotten done. Right. And even if you're telling them, I've got this done, I've got this done, I've got this done, but all they're hearing is, you need to shut up and be happy because you, you shouldn't listen to how you're actually feeling about whatever reality you think you were living in right now, because your rent going up that high isn't that bad because the stock market's doing great. You're going to lose them. And I think in his case, it really highlights a pretty major fracture in the party where we want to get back into the majority, but we want to basically keep everything the same, to keep the same politicians and incumbents in power. And those two things are at total odds with each other. But if we can't take a clear note from a guy who got three times the 18 to 24 year old turnout of young people compared to Kamala Harris, I don't know how seriously we can say we actually want to win back young people.
- [21:12]
A
Yeah. And David, why do you not get frustrated? I mean, maybe you do get frustrated. Why do you, why did you went into the Democratic Party leadership, you stirred up some stuff, they got mad at you, you, you decided not to run again, you left the leadership and all of that. We don't have to go through the whole thing. But why did you decide to stay in this, stay in this fight?
- [21:36]
B
Because ultimately I'm thinking about who's out.
- [21:41]
C
I.
- [21:49]
B
I, I know that, I know the cost of not staying in that fight. My classmates from Parkland know that cost. And it's, it's the same mentality of people who said, you know, I'm going to focus on X, Y and Z issue, but I'm not going to talk about guns because the NRA is too powerful right now. And it's the same thing that's said about all these special interests. Like, well, I can focus on this thing, but not these other things. And then people lose their lives because of that, or they lose their health debt because of that, or they just to have their lives fundamentally, you know, severely harmed because of the special interests that are destroying so much of our political system right now. And I have to believe, even if I have to believe that ultimately we're going to win no matter even if we fail a couple of times. Because my generation has the greatest asset that we can have on our side in politics, which is much more important than just money, which we do need. Please Support us@leaderswe deserve.com. but it's time. And the fact that I'm going to outlive a lot of the people who I am against, at least right now, the question is, what kind of country are we going to build in their place? What kind of party are we going to build in their place? Because I don't think it's one that any single one of us has the answer to build. But I do believe as a generation, if history has taught us anything, it's that great generations are not born. They're forged in the, in the fires of awful circumstances. And our circumstances have been a bit unique, for sure, but, but they've nonetheless also been awful. And I know that the leaders that can bring us out of this moment are out there. But what I worry about is how many other people like Maxwell Frost are out there who have that same grit, who have that same will, who have that same determination, that have that backbone, that just don't have the financial support that they need to get elected to help bring this generation hope, that they need to believe. Like, actually, I know the political system is corrupt, but it's not so corrupt that there isn't at least one person who is able to represent me who, when they got elected to Congress, like Maxwell, knows the feeling, what it's like to be denied an apartment. Even as a freshman member of Congress. I remember that running for office, that is the experience that we need more of in Congress. And having those young people there, I believe is an essential part of us addressing gun violence and so many of the other issues that we have, because this generation has paid the price in so many different ways for the corruption that we all see. That I think is part of the reason why Donald Trump gained so much power in the first place, because people are sick and tired of that corrupt system, and they're looking for anybody that feels like they can provide an answer. And what Democrats need to do is show how we're the party that actually makes government work and we're the party that stands up against corruption.
- [24:19]
A
Yeah. And, David, just finally, I mean, one of the things that I think. I think one of the reasons why Donald Trump is where he is right now, why the Republicans are dominating the scene here in Washington and to the point where they've shut down the government and there's no end in sight to that, is, you know, we have, I think, a situation in America right now where the, the far right, the right, has very successfully cultivated this. This youth base. And we saw this with Charlie Kirk, obviously, and so on. And, you know, people are constantly saying, why don't we have a Joe Rogan of the left and that sort of thing, and why don't we have a Charlie Kirk of the left? And that's. And there are some of those folks. I think that there, There is some of that. But do you agree that it's not really a level playing field right now and that progressives better get on this? And that was the thing that pissed me off about what happened to you. David, just be very honest. Is that. I'm like, okay, is David perfect? No. My God, he's a young guy. But why are you running off somebody like David? I mean, that was. That was my reaction to the whole thing. And not to take your side in this, but I'm. That's. That's how I felt. And I. And I'm looking at what the. What's happening on the right right now. They have all of these young characters who are somewhat charismatic and have built this youth base and progressives better get on that, it seems to me.
- [25:42]
B
I mean, we have to. The bottom line is, when it came down to the DNC stuff, I had a decision to make between staying at the DNC in a largely symbolic and volunteer role as one of five vice chairs, or sticking to my values and doing what I think we actually need to do to start to win back young people, which is getting some fresh blood in this party and some new ideas in this party and hammering out those differences and disagreements that we have in our primaries and then consolidating around the Democratic nominee. And I think what's important to note about young people is Trump's support has gone down pretty substantially with young people.
- [26:18]
A
That's right.
- [26:18]
B
And I think what we're seeing right now is the reality of. I think the best way to describe how young people are feeling from my sense of talking to them and being young myself, is imagine if you were 10ft underwater and you have one person who's arguing. The other side wants to put you 11ft underwater, and I will bring you nine feet underwater. You don't really care if you're nine feet or 10ft underwater. You don't want to be underwater at all.
- [26:53]
C
And.
- [26:53]
B
And what you're going to be doing is reaching out for any hand that you feel like might be able to pull you to the surface so that you're there and not underwater at all. And I think that's kind of where young people are, where we have done everything that we've been told, just statistically speaking, for most of our lives. We have some of the highest rates of college education. We have some of the high, lowest rates of teen pregnancy, some of the lowest rates of alcoholism, and some of the highest rates of political participation of any generation in American history. And yet we still find ourselves in a position where, yeah, are we paid more than our parents? Yeah, we are. That's great. But everything else, the necessities of life, rent, food, insurance, everything that you basically have no option to pay for is exponentially more expensive than it was for our parents. And that generation is going to be looking for anybody to try to provide them an answer as quickly as possible. And I think that it is on Democrats to. To show those young people, through candidates like Zoran and others, that we actually are fighting against special interests that have brought our country and our generation to this point, be it the nra, be it, you know, so many of the. So many of the groups that have enabled the student debt crisis and other things like that. But it's not as simple as saying. And I, I think this is my, one of my biggest critiques of us as a party is we have to get more specific. We have to stop saying, oh, we just, we just need to fight against corruption. How, what, what groups are we talking about? Name names here? Right. If you're going to talk about lowering costs, how everybody can agree it'd be great if we had lower costs. What are you doing to actually make life easier and more affordable for the American people? And I think Zuron did a great job of doing that. But there's way more Democrats that need to learn from that and not just save vague as hell talking points where nobody really knows what that means, but at least it doesn't piss anybody off.
- [28:45]
A
Yeah, no, I think that's great. I think that's very true. And David, I, I always tell you, I admire your passion and your ability to hang in there and continue this fight. And I know where it came from. And, you know, my hat's off to you, man, for what you've done, what you've been able to do with. I mean, how old are you? 26? Is that how. 25? 20. Oh, my God.
- [29:07]
B
Yep.
- [29:08]
A
Man, Keep fighting the good fight.
- [29:10]
B
Thank you. And if anybody wants to support us, you know, our candidates, they don't take corporate money. We don't take corporate money either. And we're supported by 200,000 individuals around the country. Would love to have that be 250,000 by the end of this year. If anybody wants to support us, just go to leaders. We deserve dot com. And the best way you can help besides just voting and running for office and telling us other great young people to support crew running for office is consider just giving us $5 a month so that we can have continuous support long before an election day to go out there and recruit young people.
- [29:39]
A
All right. All right. Good deal. All right. Thanks. Thanks, David. Really appreciate it. Good to see you.
- [29:44]
B
Thanks, Jeff.
- [29:45]
A
All right, talk to you soon. Thanks again. Well, I mean, that's, you know, we need, we need more young people in this country like David. My goodness. I mean, very thoughtful, well versed on the issues and trying to make change inside the Democratic Party. Not everybody's in favor of what he's been doing, but you gotta stick to your guns. You gotta, you gotta, you know, damn the torpedoes. You gotta fight, fight the good fight. And that's what he's been doing. I want to bring in my friend Maria Cardona, and she's a Democratic strategist. And I'm sure you heard A little bit of what I was talking about with David Hogg there just a few moments ago. And I just wonder what you think. What do you think about what he's been trying to do? I know it's made some people inside the Democratic Party a little nervous. They don't like the idea of having somebody like David out there, you know, running and come running incumbents, running challengers to incumbents and so on. Your thoughts on that, we'll get into everything else.
- [30:40]
C
Sure. Well, as you may know, Jim, I am a DNC member and a member of the Rules and Bylaws Committee. And so I was involved in all of this. And look, I know David, and I'm a huge fan of his and always have been, from the moment that he became an activist, from the tragedy that he and his fellow students suffered when he was in school and he was just a baby. And so I think that he is coming at this with the right passion, with the right intentions. We do need to bring in new blood. We do need to bring in younger people. We have seen this across the board for the Democratic Party. We have to inject fresh ideas, fresh faces, ways to come at what the Democratic Party has suffered from new angles, new perspectives. So I do admire that. That is his core mission when he was at the dnc, I do think, and he said this at the very end, he had a decision to make whether to continue as a vice chair, where you can't really go against Democrats, it's just part of being part of the Democratic National Committee, or focus on what he wants to focus on. And I think he made the right decision because that really then allows him, untethered, to do what he thinks we need to do. And he has a lot of admirers within the party, including the chairman, who hopes that he continues to do that and hopes to continue to work with him hand in hand to make sure that the Democratic Party is speaking to exactly those concerns that young people across the board, not just in the Democratic Party, are feeling each and every single day that certainly Trump and Republicans have no idea how to approach with real solutions. And we need to prove that we are the party that can do that.
- [32:37]
A
Yeah. All right, well, let's jump into this ICE stuff. And, Maria, I'm so glad that I have you on here to talk about this stuff. I was watching the headlines all weekend long, just sort of just. I mean, it doesn't feel like we live in the United States of America that you and I grew up in, Maria. When I look at what's happening Right now. But just to catch people up with what's happening. Officials in Oregon and Illinois are stepping up their efforts to block what they denounced as Trump's invasion of their cities. As the New York Times writing this. With National Guard troops fighting legal battles, Illinois officials sued Trump just today, hours after he ordered hundreds of Texas National Guard soldiers to deploy for what he calls federal protection missions in Chicago and Portland, Oregon. And I do. I want to show Maria, the viewers, some of what we're talking about. We have some video, I think, of some tear gas being deployed in a neighborhood. We also have video of a Chicago alderperson. I'll show that in a second. Tear gas, Maria, can you imagine living in a neighborhood and there's their tear. They're deploying tear gas in your effing neighborhood. My God.
- [33:53]
C
No, Jim, I can't. And I gotta tell you, I'm so happy that we are talking about this, Jim, because everyone needs to understand what's going on here. I really believe that we are at a crossroads in our country, Jim. I was talking to my father over the weekend and he was in tears talking to me, Jim. And I, I'm welling up right now because he said, mija, this is not the country that I brought our family to.
- [34:21]
A
Right.
- [34:22]
C
I am, I do not recognize what is going on in these cities with these images and, you know, across the board. And, you know, you and I talk to people all the time, from the, the folks who are experiencing these, all of these horrific acts in these cities to the people who are watching from afar. And you're talking Democrats, Independents, even common sense Republicans who are saying, no, this is not what we voted for. This is not what America looks at and says, yes, that represents what I want. That's represents our values. Absolutely not, Jim.
- [35:03]
A
Yeah. And Maria, let's look at this video right here. Look at this. This was an older person, Jesse Fuentes, in Chicago. He's at the hospital last Friday. Look at this. The Chicago alder person.
- [35:15]
C
Can somebody go in the hallway and get. Unbelievable. Can somebody go in the hallway and get.
- [35:21]
A
She's asking the ICE agents. You guys have a warrant to be here in the hospital?
- [35:25]
C
Yeah.
- [35:26]
A
And they're just going into hospitals, grabbing people going into. There was a South Shore neighborhood apartment building that they were assaulting last. Was it a week ago Tuesday. It looked like. It looked like a military operation where they were rappelling down the side of the building and zip tying old people and little kids and all this. And then here they are arresting an older person on Friday this is yet another Democratic politician getting arrested by ice.
- [35:57]
C
It is unreal. Seriously, there are no words to describe what is going on here and the danger and the concern and the urgency that we all should be feeling as this is happening. Because let's be very clear, this is not about public safety. This is not about fighting crime. This is about pushing the envelope from Trump and his administration to see how much power they can accumulate, how much force they can use against American citizens who they believe oppose them. And this is, again, not about fighting crime in these US Cities. This is about creating the chaos. This is about creating those dangerous situations so then they can use it as an excuse to ultimately bring in the military.
- [36:57]
A
Well, and Maria, the other thing they're doing is they're creating these propaganda videos that are brainwashing people. Look at this. This. Kristi Noem tweeted this out over the weekend. It looks like something out of a goddamn movie. Oh, my God. And these are militarized police officers. These are police officers, ICE officers, so on, in military uniforms, with guns, with military gear. I saw this movie, One battle after another over the weekend with Leonardo DiCaprio and Sean. It looks like a scene out of that movie where about this stuff where they're. A militarized police force is going after protesters, migrants, and so on. This is. This is what the Secretary of Homeland Security tweeted out, and her caption is, chicago, we're here for you.
- [37:40]
C
Oh, my God. That is so disgusting and so shameful that this is happening within our borders. Donald Trump, the President of the United states, is treating U.S. citizens as if they were terrorists, like Osama bin Laden. That image that you just showed looked like a scene from Zero Dark Thirty.
- [38:01]
A
Right, exactly.
- [38:03]
C
It is not just insane, but it is unacceptable. Americans have to see this and have to say, we are in danger because we are not from outside forces, not from Al Qaeda or isis, but from our own freaking President of the United States. And this administration who is looking to accumulate as much power as they can. They've already been handed the imperial presidency by the Supreme Court, which has made him feel completely invincible. And we all need to keep watch on this. Jim.
- [38:39]
A
Yeah.
- [38:40]
C
Infuriating.
- [38:41]
A
Well, and, and just over the weekend, there was a Trump appointed judge who came out and said that you can't deploy the National Guard into Oregon, thank goodness. And. And she said, you can't take control of their National Guard. She says this is a nation of constitutional law, not martial law. That's a quote, unquote quote from the judge, adding that Trump's orders, quote, risk blurring the line between civil and military federal power to the detriment of this nation. But then, I don't know if you saw this, Maria, but Stephen Miller, Trump's henchmen when it comes to migrants in this country, he tweeted out that this was legal insurrection. This is how he responded to the judge's ruling in this. He called it legal insurrection. He says the President is the commander in chief of the armed forces, not an Oregon judge. I mean, this is, this is how a top level official inside the White House replies to something like this, responds something like this. It's totally outrageous. And I think we just need to say it. Stephen Miller is a pendejo.
- [39:44]
C
He absolutely.
- [39:45]
A
He's a pendejo.
- [39:46]
C
That's the turnpike. And an iguaputa as well.
- [39:49]
A
He's an, he's just, he is.
- [39:52]
C
And, and he's dangerous. And the things that he says are dangerous to this country because if you combine what is going on with ice in these cities, and let's be very clear, they are going after black people, they are going after brown people. They don't care what kind of status we have in this country. That is who they are going after. They're going after us and then they are asking questions. And later, and as you have seen and you have reported this, they're detaining US Citizens.
- [40:23]
A
Yep.
- [40:24]
C
They don't care. They don't give a shit as long as the people they are detaining look dangerous. Right. And for them, the people who look dangerous have black and brown skin, may speak with an accent, you know, may not look like, you know, Stephen Miller looks or Donald Trump looks or whatever they think. Right? And this is, this is why I say, I'm saying we are at a crossroads, Jim, and everyone needs to understand where we are headed and what this President is actually trying to do. He is attacking US cities, he is attacking US Citizens. This has nothing to do with keeping neighborhoods safe, has nothing to do with even getting rid of the most violent criminal aliens, as he says it, right? Because he is traumatizing children. He is like you just showed he is. He. They are detaining older people, elected officials, Senator Padilla, they threw him down on the floor. They threw down on the floor and an innocent woman who was just screaming to say that she wanted information about her husband who had been detained. They are traumatizing kids, separating kids from their parents. This is God awful what is happening. And the only sort of thing that, that, that gives me hope is that the polls are Tanking. Because Americans are seeing this, and they're saying, that is not who we are. That is not what we voted for. That is not what we want in our streets.
- [41:51]
A
And I will tell you, I mean, you know, these ICE officers wearing these masks, you know, if you're. If what you're doing is something to be proud of, you don't wear the mask.
- [42:04]
C
Exactly.
- [42:04]
A
If what you're doing is morally defensible, you don't wear the mask. If what you're doing is. Is legal and right and just. You don't wear the mask, they wear masks.
- [42:13]
C
That's exactly.
- [42:14]
A
It looks like something out of Putin's Russia. It's totally insane, and it's. It's menacing. And I don't know how we're supposed to feel safe in our communities if you. If they can just roll up in an unmarked vehicle with masks on and abduct you, that is not America. I'm sorry.
- [42:33]
C
That is such a good point, Jim, because again, they do this under the guise of keeping Americans safe.
- [42:38]
A
Yeah.
- [42:39]
C
I don't know anybody who feels safer with this going on in their neighborhood.
- [42:44]
A
Who feels safe.
- [42:44]
C
Right, exactly. And. And you know what else? You brought up a really good point. Who are these ICE agents, Jim?
- [42:51]
A
Yeah.
- [42:52]
C
You know that they are. With a $50,000 bonus. Right. How do we know that these people aren't criminals themselves? We don't know that. They underwent a background check which is supposed to be very rigorous and strenuous. How do we know that they have the training, which is supposed to be very rigorous and strenuous, to become an ICE agent? You know, some of them did that. You know, had. That came in and they said, do you want to hunt immigrants? Yes, I would love to. Here's a gun.
- [43:27]
A
I think they're just hiring the true believers. And National Public Radio, I was sharing this story with my viewers a couple of weeks ago. They did a story where they went to an ICE fair and they found, you know, a hiring fair, hiring event for ice. And the people who showed up said, oh, I love Trump. I believe in what he's doing. These. They're hiring the true believers. Those are the people who are showing up to get these positions, and so they align with him politically. That's not how law enforcement's supposed to work. And when he goes to the nation's generals and he's talking about going after the enemy from within, when he's spreading lies like he was yesterday with the members of the Navy, he was talking about undocumented immigrants. He was saying illegal Aliens want to be. They want federal benefits, and that's why Democrats are shutting down. I mean, it's all lies. And, but he is, he is laying the kindling. Yeah. To me for real violence in this country. And it is, it is some sick and twisted. And he has a pendejo and Stephen Miller whispering in his ear like a Lord of the Rings villain. You know what I mean? Remember the character that whispered in the king's ear and, oh, my God, shriveled up or whatever. I mean, that's, that's what this is. That's what this is like. I can't remember what the name of that character was, but that's what this is like. It's, it's totally nuts.
- [44:47]
C
That is exactly right. And you connected two very important threads, Jim, two very terrifying threads, which is what Donald Trump. Trump is says he's doing with ice. And what he said to the generals, that we are fighting the enemy from within. He is creating the chaos. He is creating the, the violent situations in these cities so that he can then go and say, look, military, you need to go in and take care of this.
- [45:21]
A
I need you to do this.
- [45:22]
C
Exactly. My ultimate question is going to be, are the generals going to hold the line of actually protecting the Constitution and the American people, or will they do what Donald Trump wants them to do, no matter how unconstitutional or how criminal it will be? My hope is the former. I really, deeply, deeply hope it is the former. And from what I'm hearing, they didn't voice this, but the majority of the generals and the admirals and, and, and the, the military people that were in that audience were laughing inside at Hegseth, embarrassed about how this was the person who was our Secretary of Defense, Secretary of War, and that this was the kind of leadership that they were, that they had to be under now. And so, but, but, but what you said is so important because those are the threads that Donald Trump ultimately, I believe, wants to connect. And I think he wants to connect it before the upcoming midterm elections. So people need to be very aware. None of this is by accident. He sees the polls for the upcoming midterm elections.
- [46:38]
A
That's right.
- [46:39]
C
This is why he's doing all of the crazy. Also unconstitutional reapportionment, redistricting, but it's not going to be enough, and he knows it's not going to be enough. And so he's going to try to do what he can to increase the chaos, inject the fear. And here's the thing, Jim. It is, it is about the Chaos. It is about the fear, because ultimately for him and this administration, it's about the silence. He wants to keep us silent.
- [47:15]
A
Oh, yeah. No, there's no question. Yeah.
- [47:17]
C
Thank God for people like you and, and other reporters out there, other journalists who are telling it like it is, who are covering the stuff, other folks who are saying, this is not the United States of America.
- [47:30]
A
Not.
- [47:30]
C
It's just not exactly.
- [47:33]
A
No, I. It's not. It's not the country that we grew up in. And, and what are we handing off to the next generation? How does it get worse than this? It's got to be put. You got to put a stop to it. And it seems to me, Maria, and there was a subscriber comment, a viewer comment earlier that said that Schumer should be making, as a prerequisite as part of these budget negotiations, that they end ICE raids to, to get out of this shutdown. And I wrote about this the other day. I absolutely believe that Democrats should be going for way more than Obamacare subsidies. They should be saying to Donald Trump, we'll reopen the government if you get ICE to heal. If you get those guys back in the goddamn vans and send them back to the ICE police station and tell them to cool the fuck off. Because it seems to me right now it's totally out of control. And I, I don't know how. How much worse this is going to get.
- [48:24]
C
I know.
- [48:24]
A
But it seems to me when you got kids and abuelas and people being traumatized, it is totally, totally nuts. And I don't know what are your thoughts? Because you're, you're in the party.
- [48:37]
C
Yeah.
- [48:37]
A
This is what, you know, this is your nitty gritty here, right? To me, there, there needs to be a marker laid here. You got to say, you got to say more than just Obamacare subsidies. You got to say something about this immigration crackdown. It's totally nuts.
- [48:50]
C
I mean, I would love that. And I do think that, that it has become necessary because it's more than just about immigration like we've just been talking about. Right. This is about the survival of our democracy. This is about the lives and livelihoods of American citizens in these neighborhoods. This is about a president who wants to divide this country and, and pit people against each other. He literally wants citizens against citizens, which is what we're seeing on the street right now. That video that Kristi Noem put out is disgusting because that, that is a video of a U.S. agents, U.S. federal agents going after Americans in our neighborhoods, in our cities. That is not something that we ever thought was good would, would be possible in the United States of America. And so you're right. I think our elected officials do need to put a marker down. As you know, Democrats have almost zero leverage because we don't control anything.
- [49:51]
A
Yeah, no, I know. They don't even want a hot dog stand in this.
- [49:55]
C
They should try as much as they can. And so far they've been holding the line, at least for these Obamacare subsidies. They should try to get as much as they can here, because I do think, again, the more that they sound the alarm about what is at stake. Right. Obamacare subsidies, health, the health care crisis, the lives of millions of Americans if they're not going to be able to get health care, as well as the safety of Americans in their own neighborhoods, in their own beds, the safety of your children, the sacrosanctity of our families and where we live and supposedly should feel safe day in and day out, that is disappearing.
- [50:36]
A
Yeah.
- [50:37]
C
That, I think, is a huge issue for Americans as we go into the 2024 elections.
- [50:43]
A
Yeah, no, I agree. Well, Maria, I knew you were texting me and I was about to text you. We were saying we got to talk about this ICE stuff because.
- [50:51]
B
Yes, thank you.
- [50:52]
C
We were on the same wavelength.
- [50:53]
A
We're on the same wavelength. Our, our, we were talking to one another before. We were talking to one another. But no, I, I mean, this, this stuff, it really disappoints me that this is what we've become. And I think you hit the nail on the head when you said Democrats don't have, you know, much to, to talk about in terms of leverage these days. They can't really hold the line, I suppose is their thinking. But it seems to me we're in this moment right now. We got to get to the negotiating table. Let's put ICE on the table.
- [51:26]
C
Yeah. No, I think to a certain extent, they have nothing else to lose.
- [51:30]
A
Might as well.
- [51:31]
C
Right, Exactly. Well, they are now. You know, Republicans need their votes.
- [51:36]
A
They need their votes. That's right.
- [51:38]
C
And if you see the polls, more people are blaming Republicans because it's their fault. They never invited Democrats to come to the negotiating table. It was actually Jeffries and Schumer that reached out to Trump and said, hey, maybe we should meet. Right. And they never, in fact, Donald Trump said the words, we don't need Democrats, we don't need Democrats to do anything.
- [51:58]
A
Well, he called them a gnat. He said in front of the Navy yesterday, they're a nat on his shoulder. Yeah, I, I, it's It's time for the, the nat. Maybe to. To become a bit, maybe a pterodactyl or something here. I don't know, you see, or to.
- [52:13]
C
Or to fly into the eye of whoever.
- [52:15]
A
You know, something. I don't know. Add your metaphor there. Maria, great to see you. Thank you so much. Really appreciate it.
- [52:22]
C
Thank you for what you're doing and I look forward to our next conversation, amigo.
- [52:26]
A
Wonderful. Anytime, amiga. Thank you so. All right. That's the wonderful Maria Cardona. Always enjoy our conversations. And I want to go back and show that image again of the tear gas in the neighborhood in Chicago. And I just want to ask the question, what would you do if this was your neighborhood? What would you do? What would you think? What would you say to your mom, your dad, your. Your, your loved ones when you got around the dinner table or if you called them because maybe they live in another town or something like that? Look at that. The, the caption there. Ice tear gassing residential Brighton park neighborhood in Chicago, October 4th. This is what we've become in America. We've become a place in America where it's now the battle is on. Donald Trump, you know, he talked the other day about wanting to send the military to go to war against the enemy from within the war. It's almost as though the war has already begun. He's going after people, he's going after neighborhoods. He's going after defenseless children, women, the elderly, elected officials. It's non stop. And one of the things that the, the people in Illinois and Portland objected to was apparently Trump wanted to send in members of the Texas National Guard into other people's states. Sounds like a goddamn civil war. In what world would Republicans tolerate a situation where a Democratic president was sending in members of the National Guard from blue states into Texas? What would happen in Texas if President Obama or President Biden sent in members of the New York National Guard or the Illinois National Guard or the California National Guard, for Christ's sake, into Texas to occupy their cities, to occupy their communities, to set off tear gas in their neighborhoods, People would lose their shit, and rightfully so. And so when you see people losing their shit now, when you see an alder person in Chicago saying, hey, where's your arrest warrant? Of course people are pissed. Of course people are asking questions. When you have judges, federal judges appointed by Donald Trump, saying that we are based on constitutional law, not martial law in this country, don't you think Donald Trump and Stephen Miller just might be a little bit over their skis and Stephen Miller, the pendejo of the Trump administration. The chief pendejo of the Trump administration. That's asshole for folks who don't know the translation is calling that insurrection. Are you kidding me? You don't get to call other people insurrectionists. Stephen Miller. Donald Trump doesn't get to call other people insurrectionists. They are the goddamn insurrectionists. And yes, they are back in power. And yes, they are throwing their weight around. But I'll be damned if the American people cannot raise their voices and say no. And say, hell no. We're not going to let our streets, we're not going to let our neighborhoods get turned into apocalypse now. We're not going to let our neighborhoods get turned into war zones where tear gas is going off. They wouldn't tolerate that in red states. Why are people tolerating it in blue states? They don't want to tolerate it because they don't want this to be their home. They don't want this to be their country. And so Donald Trump and his, and his chief pendejo need to understand that people are pissed, people are angry and they're going to speak their minds. They're going to say, enough with what? With this craziness. Enough with this madness. Enough with the terrorizing of these communities, terrorizing of families, of children. It's madness and it needs to stop. And I think Democrats, somebody was saying earlier, why are the Democrats going for crumbs? At least go for half the loaf. At least go for something. At least go for a slice. It's time to put the tactics, the brutality, the inhumanity of ice on the table in these shutdown negotiation talks. It is time, it is time to stop this mutation of this country where it's okay to send in the, the militarized police force, the, the, the Putin style secret police into neighborhoods to terrorize defenseless people. You got, if you're going after undocumented people who committed crimes, okay, where's your warrant? But turning neighborhoods into battle zones where tear gas is going off, they wouldn't tolerate that in Alabama. I can tell you what they would do in Alabama, Mississippi and Texas and Louisiana if this stuff was going on down in their, their communities, all hell would break loose. And so it's time to come back to reality. It's time to come back to sanity. And the Democrats are going to have to fight harder to get us there. My thanks to David Hogg, my thanks to Maria.